[12:21] <lifeless> ddaa: ping
[12:21] <ddaa> pong
[12:22] <lifeless> I realised while talking with elmo that we have not discussed the data access requirements of the baz2bzr conversion for importd
[12:22] <lifeless> b.u.c. does not have db access. Is this a problem ?
[12:22] <ddaa> yes
[12:22] <lifeless> meep
[12:23] <lifeless> ok. We really dont want it to have db access. So we need to change our plans to accomodate. 
[12:23] <ddaa> *sigh*
[12:23] <ddaa> so, it's going to work on another host after all?
[12:23] <lifeless> (I was evisaging a dumb script that *queryed* launchpads list of branches, which at the *back of* my head was to address this.
[12:24] <lifeless> so.
[12:24] <lifeless> there are some possibilities
[12:24] <lifeless> we can run the entire thing remotely, and push the resulting branches to b.u.c.
[12:24] <lifeless> we can run the entire thing on b.u.c. and have it emit the data to insert into the database
[12:25] <ddaa> it does not need to write the db
[12:25] <ddaa> just read
[12:25] <lifeless> or emit the data needed to do the database insertion
[12:25] <lifeless> oh. thats much less problematic.
[12:25] <lifeless> elmo: ping
[12:25] <lifeless> lets see what elmo thinks of this
[12:27] <ddaa> I guess if no db access is possible, the simplest thing would be to make another private page, as you did for the pull-listing
[12:27] <lifeless> yeah
[12:27] <lifeless> I think that too
[12:31] <kiko> elmo, don't forget my request for the ubuntu.com-sync-code
[02:33] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [r=salgado]  first cut of TicketTrackerOutgoingEmail. fixes bug 3157 as well. (r2897: Bjorn Tillenius)
[07:49] <jamesh> I thought I'd found a hang in the bug importer
[07:50] <jamesh> but it turns out that the bugzilla bug just had ~ 7500 comments
[07:51] <lifeless> hmog
[07:51] <jamesh> debzilla bug by the look of it
[07:51] <jamesh> most of the comments seem to be the same
[07:52] <jamesh> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=248 if you want to hang your browser ...
[07:52] <Ubugtu> Ubuntu bug #248: abiword: Debian appears to be violating AbiWord's license Product: Ubuntu, Component: abiword, Severity: major, Assigned to: debzilla@ubuntu.com, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: NOTWARTY https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=248
[07:53] <lifeless> can we dedup ?
[07:54] <jamesh> that's what I'm thinking of doing
[07:58] <jamesh> I'm just ignoring them completely
[07:59] <jamesh> people won't miss "\n--=20\n   Jacobo Tarr=EDo     |     http://jacobo.tarrio.org/\n\n\n" 7800 times
[08:01] <lifeless> no
[08:01] <lifeless> indeed not
[08:08] <jamesh> lifeless: when adding new features to the pending-reviews script, do you think it is worth trying to keep the baz-1.x stuff working?
[08:08] <lifeless> no
[08:08] <lifeless> lp is bzr only
[08:09] <lifeless> the direction we should be going is launchpad branch listings driving this
[08:09] <lifeless> so bzr only is fine ;)
[08:09] <jamesh> lifeless: okay.  I was wondering from the point of view of opening it up as a tool other projects could use (driven from the data they've entered into LP)
[08:09] <jamesh> whether we want to support baz-1.x for that use case
[08:09] <minghua> is there any easy way to quote a bug comment in malone?
[08:10] <minghua> I want to click a link so I have quoted text (with ">" at the beginning of the line) in my new comments
[08:10] <lifeless> right
[08:10] <jamesh> minghua: if you use the email interface, hit reply in your email client :)
[08:10] <minghua> maybe with the quoted author and time as well
[08:10] <lifeless> but they cannot enter baz1.x data in
[08:10] <jamesh> minghua: if you see comments with ">" quoting, they've probably come in via email
[08:11] <minghua> jamesh: ah okay.  I only used the lpbugs.py in MOTU tools, haven't used my MUA to deal with malone yet
[08:11] <minghua> jamesh: any doc about the email interface?
[08:11] <jamesh> minghua: assuming you've registered your PGP key with Launchpad, it should be as simple as replying to a bug mail and signing it with that key
[08:12] <jamesh> minghua: there is some docs here: http://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceUserDoc
[08:12] <jamesh> (there is a link to it at https://launchpad.net/malone)
[08:13] <minghua> jamesh: cool, I'll read that, thanks
[08:54] <sivang> morning launchpadders!
[09:04] <SteveA> hi
[09:04] <SteveA> lifeless: some kind of baz2bzr
[09:04] <SteveA> issue in the scrollback?
[09:10] <lifeless> ?
[09:30] <SteveA> lifeless: database access for the baz3bzr conversion?
[09:39] <SteveA> bug 2230
[09:39] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #2230: /distros/ubuntu/+sources will need to present something useful In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/2230
[09:52] <lifeless> SteveA: b.u.c. does not have db access. Basically resolved, just need to get elmos attention to ask him if read only access from there during the transition period is ok, else write a read only page for the converter
[09:54] <SteveA> i see
[09:54] <SteveA> i guess it needs to read only certain tables, too
[09:56] <BjornT> jamesh: on the PendingReviews page, cprov/launchpad/build-ui is marked needs-reply, but on ~jamesh/pending-reviews the same branch is marked as merge-approved. can you take a look at it?
[10:00] <jamesh> BjornT: just updated the PendingReviews wiki page, which should fix the problem on next run
[10:00] <jamesh> BjornT: it wasn't correctly identifying the branch after buildd-ui, so picked up that branch's date+status
[10:01] <BjornT> cool
[10:02] <jamesh> BjornT: I've done the final few fixups to the bugzilla-import branch.  Could you take a quick look over it again after the current pending-reviews run is finished?
[10:02] <BjornT> jamesh: sure
[10:02] <jamesh> I removed the event subscriber modifications, so it looks a lot cleaner now :)
[10:02] <BjornT> sounds good :)
[10:03] <jamesh> I also fixed a small bug in the distro bug +viewstatus page
[10:04] <jamesh> it would oops if the bug had a milestone set
[10:42] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Fix and test for bug 5423: URL auto-linkification doesn't recognize SFTP URLs (r2898: Christian Reis)
[10:49] <jamesh> BjornT: here's the diff: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews.new/jamesh/launchpad/bugzilla-import/full-diff
[10:50] <jamesh> the bugtask +viewstatus fix is right at the bottom (just a 1 line change)
[10:55] <BjornT> jamesh: ok, i'll take a look soon.
[11:13] <sivang> kiko-zzz: I commented on https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3603 as you requested, it's still not fixed on staging.
[11:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3603: Summary field in spec tracker is not sensitive for links. In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Matthew Paul Thomas, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3603
[11:15] <sivang> kiko-zzz: that is, not fixed on the whiteboard part - the summary part is fixed.
[11:23] <daf> SteveA: bug 5461
[11:23] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5461: redirects should canonicalise URLs In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5461
[11:23] <SteveA> thanks daf
[11:24] <SteveA> bug 5461
[11:24] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5461: redirects should canonicalise URLs In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5461
[11:27] <TheMuso> Hi all. I was reading earlier on #ubuntu-motu about members receiving an
[11:27] <TheMuso> ubuntu.com email address forward to their primary launchpad address once
[11:27] <TheMuso> they signed the CoC. I am a Ubuntu member as of earlier this year,
[11:27] <TheMuso> before launchpad was in full swing, and have signed the CoC then, and
[11:27] <TheMuso> now in launchpad. I don't mind if it can't be done, but is it possible I
[11:27] <TheMuso> could get the ubuntu.com address forward like others? It would help mail
[11:27] <TheMuso> filtering. :) There are IRC logs and CC reports stating that I was
[11:27] <TheMuso> offered membership, and Benj Mako Hill probably has record of me signing
[11:27] <TheMuso> the COC if you need any other evidence of my claim.
[11:29] <daf> we should make T-shirts
[11:29] <daf> "I've signed the CoC. Have you?"
[11:29] <Kinnison> "I'm a CoC signer -- are you?"
[11:29] <Kinnison> or even "Yeah baby! Sign that CoC"
[11:30] <Kinnison> "This is my CoC, now show me yours" // #include <coc_text>
[11:37] <SteveA> community council slogan: "Respect the CoC"
[11:42] <jamesh> they've had arse signings at Gnome conferences but never CoC signings
[11:42] <lifeless> my arse signed the Coc ?
[11:43] <daf> lifeless: you just have to lower the tone, don't you?
[11:43] <lifeless> Its a skill
[11:45] <SteveA> lifeless: i am 1/3 through a detailed reading of your paper.  i have detailed comments.  i'm going to take a break, and then continue.
[11:45] <lifeless> SteveA: wow, thanks
[11:45] <lifeless> SteveA: If any are on the relevance of DI vs SL, I have some planned updates already - if you are time crunched, feel free to skim that aspect of it
[11:49] <SteveA> DI?  SL?
[11:49] <ddaa> hey lifeless, how did things went with elmo yesterday, about db access on b.u.c?
[11:50] <SteveA> DependencyInjection
[11:50] <ddaa> * how did things go
[11:50] <SteveA> SL?
[11:50] <ddaa> SteveA: that sounds like narcotic abuse
[11:58] <lifeless> SteveA: ServiceLocation
[11:58] <lifeless> ddaa: no response yet
[12:14] <matsubara> good morning!
[12:18] <sivang> morning matsubara :)
[12:18] <kiko-zzz> GOOOOOOOD MORNING VIETNAM
[12:19] <SteveA> ServiceLocator
[12:22] <sivang> Kinnison: I'd like one short of each version :)
[12:22] <sivang> s/short/shirt/
[12:22] <Kinnison> sivang: *g*
[12:22] <Kinnison> kiko-zzz: Yo dude
[12:22] <kiko> Kinnison, is it good news or is it good news?
[12:23] <Kinnison> it's pretty good news IMO
[12:23] <sivang> Kinnison: there's actually no conditionality in you last sentence :)
[12:23] <sivang> err,
[12:24] <sivang> that was for kiko ^^^
[12:24] <kiko> cool
[12:24] <janimo> where can I create a specification in launchpad?
[12:24] <Kinnison> sivang: Colloquial turn of phrase for "don't tell me anything bad, mmkay?" :-)
[12:24] <sivang> janimo: depends against which product/ distro you want to do that
[12:25] <janimo> sivang, ubuntu dapper
[12:25] <sivang> janimo: are you logged in?
[12:25] <janimo> yep
[12:25] <janimo> there's a specification tab which lists I do not have specs but discovered nothing about how to k=make one
[12:26] <sivang> janimo: ok, cool -->  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+specs
[12:26] <janimo> oh that large page? :)
[12:26] <sivang> janimo: on your right "New Specification"
[12:26] <janimo> sivang, thanks
[12:26] <sivang> also, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+addspec
[12:27] <sivang> janimo: my pleasure :)
[12:27] <janimo> ok, I guess I have never waited for that large page to load with 206 specs till it showed the whole content
[12:27] <sivang> janimo: hmm, well it does that pretty quick for me - shaky net connect?
[12:28] <janimo> 25-30Kbytes per sec
[12:28] <janimo> this part ot launchpad is sluggish here
[12:28] <cprov> morning dudes
[12:32] <sivang> cprov: hey Celso
[12:37] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[12:37] <LarstiQ> moin mpt :)
[12:38] <sivang> hey mpt 
[12:38] <mpt> moin sucks!
[12:38] <mpt> Is that what I'm supposed to say? :-)
[12:38] <sivang> hehe, I don't think so - no :)
[12:38] <sivang> moins doesn't suck worse then media wiki does, for sure
[12:38] <mpt> oh, sivang, you're away but awake
[12:39] <mpt> Mediawiki at least returns you to nearly the correct page after you log in
[12:39] <LarstiQ> mpt: just responding to your morning
[12:39] <sivang> mpt: yes, but it's formatting sucks bad. especially it's lack of intelligence regarding bullet points.
[12:42] <kiko> its lack
[12:42] <kiko> well
[12:42] <kiko> moin is nice except for where it isn't and in those places it SUCKS
[12:42] <kiko> case in point: the default login form
[12:42] <mpt> The only thing I really like about Moin is the automatic /MoinEditorBackup
[12:42] <kiko> case in point: the fact that a new "empty page" textarea contains text that you need to delete (#!@#!#@!)
[12:45] <sivang> kiko: you mean "Describe HomeUserBackupCheck here." ?
[12:45] <sivang> I guess this can be tweaked , no?
[12:45] <kiko> it can be fixed
[12:45] <kiko> it's just a very stupid default decision
[12:47] <sivang> shouldn't *I* be able to decide weather it is or is not a code snippet?
[12:47] <sivang> kiko: btw, I guess you already seen that I commented on the bug you asked me about. (in this channel's backlog)
[12:47] <kiko> yeah
[12:51] <SteveA> lifeless: ping
[12:52] <lifeless> pong
[12:54] <SteveA> lifeless: want to do a voice call about the testing paper?
[12:55] <lifeless> if you think it would be useful, that would be great.
[12:55] <SteveA> ddaa: i am worried.  your responses on the "raising exceptions" thread seem to be written with excessive pedantry.
[12:55] <ddaa> I agree they are borderline.
[12:55] <ddaa> But I think I was stepping down at the end of the message.
[12:55] <SteveA> ddaa: i just replied, but i'll restate here.
[12:56] <SteveA> ddaa: you can raise AssertionError.  You can catch AssertionError in the code of your tests.
[12:56] <ddaa> SteveA: yes I understand you answer.
[12:56] <SteveA> do you have any concerns about how this affects your code?
[12:57] <ddaa> The discussion with lifeless is about whethere or not, and how, to use subclasses of AssertionErrors for precise testing of sanity checks.
[12:57] <lifeless> SteveA: shall I ring thee ?
[12:57] <SteveA> i wouldn't worry about the __debug__ thing
[12:58] <SteveA> optimise later
[12:58] <ddaa> I know some code that _does_ have test case for sanity checks. And I think generally, they are a good thing to have as they help erroring out earlier.
[12:58] <SteveA> i think sanity checks are quite like test code
[12:58] <SteveA> that is, it is like having test code inline in your application code
[12:59] <SteveA> i don't think you need to test that your sanity checks are working, most of the time
[12:59] <SteveA> just like you generally don't write tests for your tests
[12:59] <lifeless> heh. 
[12:59] <lifeless> I'm glad you put the word generally in there
[12:59] <SteveA> this is different to sanity checks that are an important part of checking invariants in your processing
[12:59] <SteveA> the term "sanity check" is overloaded
[01:00] <ddaa> Well... in good TDD you _do_ test your tests.
[01:00] <SteveA> if your check is just to fail early due to programmer error elsewhere, i wouldn't bother checking it
[01:00] <ddaa> By writing them when they fail.
[01:00] <SteveA> the TDD process tests your tests
[01:00] <SteveA> but there is no evidence of this, outside of your advanced RCS system
[01:00] <ddaa> There's no devel process that I know of that test sanity checks.
[01:00] <lifeless> (such as aegis ;)
[01:00] <SteveA> lifeless: i'm about to find my headset
[01:01] <lifeless> ok. I'm ready to dial ;0
[01:01] <ddaa> evidence is not all that important, what's important there is writing tests that will not always pass because of trivial programming errors. For example "assert (foo, bar)"
[01:01] <SteveA> lifeless: ok
[01:01] <ddaa> this kind of mistake happen on the first write most of the time
[01:02] <ddaa> Anyway, this issue has been talked about more than it deserves.
[01:03] <ddaa> I find it difficult to find the thin line between argumented discusion of coding style and process and pedantic argument.
[01:03] <lifeless> SteveA: is that 'ok to ring; ?
[01:03] <ddaa> And I think not everybody draws the line at the same place.
[01:04] <SteveA> lifeless: yes
[01:05] <kiko> stub, can I have your opinion on bug 4845?
[01:05] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4845: oops trying to add distro package In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/4845
[01:05] <SteveA> ddaa: ask yourself the question, is this discussion merely interesting, or is it valuable too.
[01:05] <SteveA> lifeless: please try again
[01:06] <SteveA> i picked up, but couldn't hear you
[01:06] <SteveA> crappy line perhaps
[01:06] <SteveA> darn proprietory software in the POTS system...
[01:06] <ddaa> I think it is valuable to clarify the coding guidelines and untold assumptions.
[01:06] <ddaa> But I also think this discussion is over now.
[01:07] <kiko> thank god
[01:19] <kiko> stub, can I have your opinion on bug 4845?
[01:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4845: oops trying to add distro package In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Diogo Matsubara, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/4845
[01:21] <stub> kiko: We can adjust the constraints if we want - might be some spurious bugtasks that need to be removed, but the fallout should be minor.
[01:21] <kiko> stub, do you believe it's the right thing to do?
[01:21] <kiko> (I do.)
[01:21] <stub> kiko: But I suspect it should be discussed on the launchpad mailing list in case others have valid use cases
[01:21] <kiko> okay
[01:22] <kiko> I'll take it there. thanks.
[01:22] <stub> Adding the constraint only updates the safety net though - the real work is in the UI
[01:22] <kiko> yes.
[01:25] <stub> Actually, the constraint will be tricky and possibly not-worth-the-complication, because we need to allow multiple (distro, sourcepackage) targettings, yet not allow a new (distro,sourcepackage) targetting if the (distro, NULL) targetting exists.
[01:25] <stub> So it might end up as a use case for OscarTheGrouch
[01:26] <stub> But that wont affect the UI work and how it appears to the end user
[01:28] <kiko> indeed.
[01:29] <kiko> stub, do you want to comment on the bug before I take it to launchpad@lists?
[01:30] <stub> nah - decide what needs doing first, then I can worry about constraints
[01:32] <stub> commented anyway
[01:34] <kiko> thanks
[01:34] <kiko> niemeyer, can ctags give me a list of places a certain symbol is used?
[01:35] <niemeyer> kiko: Yep
[01:35] <niemeyer> ts
[01:36] <niemeyer> In vim, I mean
[01:37] <kiko> interesting
[01:37] <kiko> :ts?
[01:37] <niemeyer> kiko: Yep
[01:38] <niemeyer> kiko: If the tag stack is non empty (you've "navigated" to one) and you use no arguments, it gives you the options for the current tag.
[01:38] <niemeyer> kiko: If you pass an argument, it will look for that identifier.
[01:39] <kiko> niemeyer, how do I make vim smart enough to look in parent directories for tag files?
[01:40] <salgado> kiko, set tags=.tags;/
[01:40] <niemeyer> kiko: You use the vim script I'll mail you
[01:41] <kiko> cool.
[01:41] <niemeyer> salgado: Does it work for parent directories?
[01:42] <salgado> niemeyer, yes, it'll look for a file named .tags in all parent directories
[01:42] <salgado> that's what I use, and I store a single .tags file in the root of any development tree
[01:44] <kiko> niemeyer, hmm. what I wanted wasn't ts, but the "opposite" of it
[01:44] <kiko> niemeyer, I wanted a list of /callsites/
[01:44] <kiko> not of providers
[01:45] <niemeyer> kiko: Ahh, I see
[01:45] <niemeyer> kiko: cscope can do it, but it doesn't work for python :(
[01:46] <kiko> that's what I wanted. is there no such thing for python?
[01:46] <niemeyer> salgado: Doesn't seem to work for me
[01:47] <niemeyer> Humm.. wait
[01:47] <niemeyer> salgado: Yes, it does work!
[01:47] <salgado> kiko, I saw a python plugin for eclipse that had that, 2 years ago
[01:47] <niemeyer> salgado: Cool!
[01:47] <kiko> salgado, have a web reference handy?
[01:48] <salgado> niemeyer, indeed. I saw it in a vim tip a few weeks ago. :)
[01:48] <salgado> kiko, IIRC, it was something like xored
[01:48] <niemeyer> salgado: It's a completely undocumented feature :)
[01:49] <salgado> niemeyer, not completely --the source code is there. :p
[01:49] <kiko> the DOCUMENTATION you mean
[01:50] <salgado> not that I have looked at it to find it out
[01:50] <salgado> kiko, the one and only
[01:51] <BjornT> kiko: have you tried bicyclerepair? i just installed it, and it seems to have that feature
[01:52] <kiko> BjornT, no, I haven't hmm
[01:52] <kiko> how do you run it?
[01:53] <BjornT> kiko: :BikeFindRefs
[01:55] <kiko> oh
[01:55] <kiko> it's a vim plugin?!
[01:55] <kiko> wow!
[01:55] <kiko> cool!
[01:55] <kiko> COOL
[01:56] <kiko> this is /awesome/
[01:56] <BjornT> kiko: it's a general tool, but if you install the package, a vim plugin will be installed automatically
[02:01] <mpt> ah crap
[02:01] <kiko> matsubara, so mark bug 5355 as fixed :-)
[02:01] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5355: Typo in registration form In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Matthew Paul Thomas, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5355
[02:03] <matsubara> kiko: salgado told me to wait my fixes land on production before mark than fixed.
[02:03] <kiko> oh 
[02:03] <kiko> I see
[02:03] <kiko> pendingupload for now
[02:04] <kiko> on that note
[02:04] <kiko> mpt, I managed to get mdz to accept the arguments for Fixed/Released except for one point
[02:04] <matsubara> kiko: ok. it's on my post it note too. :)
[02:04] <kiko> he still doesn't like Released
[02:04] <kiko> mpt, we also need to think about what NeedInfo means
[02:09] <daf> kiko: users won't care what we think it means -- they'll use it in the way they think it's supposed to work
[02:10] <kiko> in part I'm suggesting a rename
[02:11] <lifeless> kiko: ROTFL
[02:11] <lifeless> kiko: I am SURE I've told you about bicyclerepair
[02:11] <kiko> I didn't know it was a vim plugin
[02:12] <kiko> think what you want of that
[02:12] <lifeless> heh ;)
[02:12] <mpt> kiko, "Fix Committed" and "Fix Released"?
[02:12] <lifeless> check the maintainer on the package ;)
[02:13] <kiko> mpt, it's more "Fix is in a Released Version of Product or Distribution Source Package" :)
[02:14] <daf> FIIARVOPODSP for short
[02:14] <mpt> too long, Clanky, too long!
[02:14] <kiko> also
[02:14] <kiko> needinfo may be NeedsInfoFrom: [                        ] 
[02:14] <kiko> or it may be NeedsReporterInput
[02:14] <mpt> Yes, I saw that
[02:14] <kiko> I have a crises to fix
[02:14] <mpt> I'm actually up to date with my e-mail now
[02:14] <SteveA> kiko: can you get someone to do a grepwize survey of method names in database code?
[02:15] <mpt> "a crises", eh
[02:15] <kiko> SteveA, yeah.
[02:15] <SteveA> you make a good point 
[02:15] <kiko> I am holding off the tears at the publisher run
[02:15] <SteveA> i was focusing before on choosing a good style, and making new code use it consistently.  i had neglected to consider the overall effect over the coming months.
[02:16] <SteveA> let's make an assessment later today, and make a final final pronouncement tomorrow at the meeting.
[02:16] <kiko> good idea
[02:16] <SteveA> it may be that the other option, that methods are special, is a better way to go
[02:22] <SteveA> daf: hello
[02:22] <daf> SteveA: hi
[02:23] <SteveA> i'm ready for a call
[02:49] <mpt> How do I get local launchpad to really send e-mail, so I can test account creation workflow?
[02:52] <Kinnison> mpt: edit configs/default/launchpad.conf
[02:52] <Kinnison> find the zopless send_email config
[02:52] <Kinnison> turn it on
[02:55] <mpt> thanks
[02:58] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Fix librariangc dying when too many duplicates (r2899: Stuart Bishop)
[03:18] <Kinnison> daf: I'm gonna have to go home now
[03:52] <ddaa> jblack: ping
[04:00] <salgado> what happened with the in-page tracebacks when something goes wrong?
[04:01] <kiko> salgado, you know, it's weird, but I re-added the launchpad cert and it worked.
[04:01] <salgado> eh?
[04:01] <salgado> in my local branch, I mean
[04:03] <kiko> somebody set up us the bomb
[04:03] <kiko> thanks bradb 
[04:04] <kiko> salgado, what's the bug # for flush_database_updates?
[04:05] <salgado> kiko, https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/3989
[04:05] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug
[04:07] <kiko> thanks man
[04:19] <bradb> salgado++ # writes bug titles in merge summaries which makes commit message scanning much easier. /me makes a point to do that from now on.
[04:20] <kiko> yeah, I always ask people to do that
[04:21] <salgado> I found why the tracebacks are not shown anymore
[04:22] <SteveA> salgado: why?
[04:22] <salgado> because mpt forgot to close a <tal:layout> he introduced in launchpad-oops.pt
[04:22] <SteveA> oh, cool
[04:22] <SteveA> i'm surprised the page still rendered
[04:22] <mpt> and there is no test of that template
[04:23] <salgado> and also because we don't have a test for that page
[04:23] <SteveA> hmm... i guess we can test that page.  it is a view on an exception
[04:23] <SteveA> we can make a dummy object that provides IException
[04:23] <SteveA> then instantiate the view
[04:23] <SteveA> so, it is a system doc test, not a page test
[04:23] <SteveA> salgado: would you do that/
[04:24] <SteveA> ?
[04:24] <salgado> SteveA, sure. can I add that to xx-notfound-traversals.txt?
[04:24] <SteveA> don't treat it as testing raising an exception, instead treat it as a doctest of the exception view class
[04:24] <bradb> salgado: I lost about 300 karma points in production. Why?
[04:24] <mpt> because you've been very bad, bradb 
[04:25] <SteveA> salgado: i'm proposing testing it more thoroughly, as a piece of code, and not as a page
[04:25] <SteveA> salgado: read what i wrote above please
[04:25] <bradb> Each time karma gets "reset" like this, the value of the karma system diminishes significantly, IMHO.
[04:26] <salgado> SteveA, I read it. but when I wrote that I hadn't received what you wrote.
[04:26] <SteveA> bradb: did you acquire those 300 points all on one day?
[04:26] <bradb> A better solution, IMHO is this policy: never deploy a fix that blows away karma.
[04:26] <bradb> SteveA: no idea, but that's possible
[04:26] <salgado> bradb, was the karma reset again?
[04:26] <SteveA> bradb: if so, then you'll lose them all on one day
[04:26] <bradb> salgado: Not reset, but I'm definitely down a few hundred points
[04:27] <salgado> that's how karma is calculated
[04:27] <bradb> SteveA: Why does that happen?
[04:28] <salgado> an action performed three months ago is worth less karma points than the same action performed one month ago which is worth less points than the same action performed today
[04:28] <bradb> hm, my conceptual model is broken
[04:29] <bradb> Maybe we can think of ways to make the UI more clear that karma is related to one's recent activities
[04:29] <SteveA> salgado: my plan for testing this page can't be done right now, unfortunately.
[04:30] <SteveA> bug 5481
[04:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5481: "oops" page isn't tested properly In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5481
[04:31] <ddaa> Holy cow, is push slow... half an hour to push launchpad to a new location locally...
[04:32] <bradb> (about 50 messages)
[04:32] <bradb> (about 15 were from stub's prod config update :P)
[04:32] <ddaa> I have a few interesting fetcher optimisations in my branch.
[04:33] <ddaa> I need to find the time to send them to the mailing list.
[04:36] <kiko> SteveA, salgado: why not add a notfound test?
[04:36] <SteveA> kiko: i want to test the page properly.  notfound tests are not all that thorough.  also, the notfound page is different from the oops page.
[04:38] <kiko> hmm yeah.
[04:38] <kiko> I know you want to test it properly
[04:39] <salgado> SteveA, so, no tests for now or is there some way to have at least a basic test?
[04:40] <kiko> what salgado said
[04:42] <SteveA> a notfound test for the notfound page i guess
[04:43] <SteveA> you can register a view on the pagetest layer
[04:43] <SteveA> that raises an exception
[04:43] <SteveA> and do a pagetest of this
[04:43] <SteveA> see layers.py for the PageTest layer
[04:43] <kiko> right
[04:46] <SteveA> hmm
[04:46] <SteveA> but, this will not really test it
[04:46] <SteveA> because for pagetests, the oops page will output plain text
[04:46] <SteveA> so, it needs to be a doctest
[04:46] <SteveA> a doctest like i described above
[04:47] <SteveA> which i don't really expect salgado to write, because it is quite infrastructurally involved
[04:47] <SteveA> so, bug 5481 stands
[04:47] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5481: "oops" page isn't tested properly In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5481
[04:51] <bradb> salgado: bug 5482
[04:51] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5482: Dear Launchpad: Please stop arbitrarily blowing away my KARAMAAM In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5482
[04:52] <bradb> Now, enough yak shaving, /me & # IBC, really
[05:15] <stelt> does it take a while before my new account works on the ubuntu wiki?  I can't login
[05:17] <salgado> stelt, did you follow the instructions in the email and set your password already?
[05:17] <stelt> yes
[05:18] <salgado> SteveA, is it possible to remove all GET parameters from a request at once?
[05:20] <salgado> stelt, did you get any error message when trying to login?
[05:20] <SteveA> what is a GET parameter?  like, a query parameter in the URL?
[05:21] <stelt> salgado: it says wrong password
[05:21] <salgado> SteveA, yes, a query parameter sent via GET
[05:22] <stelt> salgado: maybe you can add this idea i've written down on http://www.bryceharrington.org/pollxn.cgi?storypath=/dam.html to the Ubuntu Wiki. That's all i need the account for
[05:23] <SteveA> salgado: it is possible.  why do you want to do that?
[05:23] <salgado> the rosetta/+about page is broken on production. the fix is pretty trivial (just a mismatch in a closing html tag) and I already committed it with a test
[05:24] <salgado> SteveA, stub: I think this (^) is something pretty critical. what do you guys think?
[05:25] <stub> It doesn't stop anyone from working, so I wouldn't count it as critical.
[05:26] <salgado> SteveA, the BugListingPortletView is a view class that constructs the views for all different buglistings page in order to call the search() method of these views and count the number of the results
[05:26] <salgado> well, maybe critical is the wrong word.
[05:26] <salgado> I brought this here because I've seen quite a few errors in the error reports from people trying to access this
[05:28] <salgado> SteveA, to construct these views, the current request is used. but the query parameters in the request change the behaviour of the search method. that's why I'd like to remove the query parameters
[05:32] <stub> salgado: Good bringing it here. I don't think it warrents a cherry pick, but if it is really just a mismatched tag I can alter it live if you can give me the diff
[05:34] <salgado> actually this is what I was going to propose. I wasn't going to propose a cherry pick
[05:34] <salgado> stub, https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/filequeBVx.html
[05:37] <stub> ok - that is fixed
[05:48] <salgado> SteveA, is that a valid use case for what I want to do or is there something else that I can do?
[05:48] <salgado> stub, thanks, dude
[06:21] <elmo> spiv: ping?
[06:32] <kiko> X-Launchpad-Bug: product=launchpad; status=New; priority=None; assignee=None;
[06:32] <kiko> bradb, sweet :)
[07:26] <kiko> mpt, what do you mean with bug 5283?
[07:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5283: "Home Page" field should be merged into "Description" In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Guilherme Salgado, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5283
[07:27] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Fix launchpad-oops.pt (r2900: Guilherme Salgado)
[07:27] <mpt> kiko, arg, I've only tried to re-explain it thrice :-)
[07:27] <mpt> People have a "Home page" field, which makes no sense, it should be "Description"
[07:27] <mpt> And teams have a "Home page" field and a "Description" field that do exactly the same thing, so they should be merged.
[07:29] <kiko> by merged you mean a single DB field?
[08:06] <mpt> kiko, yes
[08:06] <kiko> ok.
[08:09] <SteveA> salgado: what exactly is the situation where you want to clear this form data?
[08:12] <salgado> SteveA, there's some code like this: [BugListing(context, 'All open bugs', '+bugs-open', request), BugListing(context, 'Critical', '+bugs-critical', request)]  in BugListingPortletView. and BugListing will do a getView(context, name, request)
[08:13] <salgado> the request may have some query parameters from a form that was submitted and I don't want to pass these parameters to these views I'm going to create
[08:14] <SteveA> why not?
[08:14] <salgado> because these views are created just to call their search() method and do a count on the number of results
[08:15] <salgado> to show the number of bugs you'll see when you click on that link
[08:16] <SteveA> what harm does having stuff in request.form do these views?
[08:18] <salgado> the search method gets its parameters from there
[08:19] <salgado> so the count of bugs you see with a request that has query parameters is not the same you'll see with a request that has no query parameters
[08:19] <SteveA> so, what you're saying is, you have a view that should normally get its parameters from the request, but sometimes you want to override that
[08:20] <SteveA> with explicit parameters
[08:20] <SteveA> if that is so, make the search method take optional parameters.  if the parameters are provided, use those, if not, use the request
[08:20] <SteveA> make it explicit
[08:27] <salgado> I want to get a view that reproduces the behaviour I'll see when I go to that view's URL, so I can have an idea of what I'll see when I click on that URL
[08:28] <SteveA> yes
[08:28] <salgado> (I'm trying to find how to explain what's going on, but I can't find a good way for it)
[08:28] <SteveA> you have some data that influences how a view is rendered
[08:28] <SteveA> this data can come from the request
[08:29] <SteveA> or it can come from somewhere else
[08:29] <salgado> it'll always come from the request
[08:29] <SteveA> so, design the view so that if there is no data explicitly provided, it gets it from the request
[08:29] <SteveA> and then
[08:29] <SteveA> when you want to use this view and tell it to ignore the request, you can do that
[08:31] <salgado> but I don't want to tell the view to ignore the request. I think that's broken in this case
[08:32] <salgado> as the view will always get its parameters from the request
[08:32] <SteveA> why?
[08:32] <salgado> it's only in a very specific (and hackish, in my opinion) case that I want to get a view with an empty request
[08:33] <SteveA> the view isn't a reusable component that must be pure for all time
[08:34] <SteveA> it is a part of the application designed to work with other parts of the application
[08:34] <SteveA> don't make it any harder than necessary to make the view do what you need it to do
[08:35] <salgado> that's what I'm trying to do
[08:35] <kiko> SteveA, you don't talk to me
[08:36] <SteveA> what's up kiko?
[08:36] <kiko> we had arranged for things to happen today
[08:36] <SteveA> salgado: so, give the view an API to allow you to say "don't use the request, be empty" or whatever
[08:36] <SteveA> kiko: i'm still around
[08:37] <kiko> and you ignore my privmsgs
[08:37] <kiko> trying to get you to use proprietary software
[08:38] <SteveA> odd... i see no privmsgs
[08:38] <kiko> odd indeed
[08:38] <SteveA> are you ided with NickServ?
[08:38] <kiko> -NickServ- You have already identified
[08:38] <kiko> try privmsging me
[08:41] <salgado> SteveA, this is going to be a considerable amount of work, and IMO it's work that won't bring any beneffits. apart from that, I think a view shouldn't pass its own request to other views. but again, it's only my opinion
[08:42] <SteveA> the request is the request
[08:42] <SteveA> it represents the user connecting into the system
[08:42] <SteveA> i don't really see what the large amount of work is, but i guess i don't fully understand the situation
[08:43] <kiko> I'll look into it soon
[08:51] <salgado> SteveA, I can't think clearly today. I'll try to summarize the problem and mail it to you
[08:51] <salgado> are we going to have a reviewers meeting in a few minutes?
[08:52] <SteveA> the last message on the subject said Tuesdays 2000 UTC
[08:52] <SteveA> although, jamesh pointed out that it's not a good time for him
[08:52] <salgado> oh, I thought it was wednesdays, as they used to be
[08:54] <SteveA> salgado: we can talk using voip if it will help
[08:54] <mpt> hmmm
[08:55] <kiko> I'll be up in a bit
[08:55] <mpt> bradb_ or BjornT, ping?
[08:55] <bradb_> mpt: pong
[08:55] <salgado> SteveA, I think the only thing that can help today is me getting some lunch and rest so I can think tomorrow
[08:56] <mpt> bradb, in bugtask-macros-buglisting.pt, we shouldn't say "No matching results found" if you haven't searched for anything yet
[08:56] <mpt> but I cannot figure out, from the rest of the stuff in the template, how to tell whether that's true
[08:56] <mpt> I suppose one way of telling is if the URL *ends in* "+bugs"
[08:57] <bradb> mpt: We also shouldn't show a list of bugs by default, IMHO. Just the search widgets.
[08:58] <bradb> IME, I've never gotten any use from the default list of bugs presented to me on the distro bugs listing. (Not showing bugs by default would only apply to certain pages, obviously)
[08:58] <mpt> bradb, so implement MaloneFrontPages :-P
[08:58] <mpt> but anyway
[08:59] <mpt> Is there an easy way of getting a tal:condition for "has performed a search"? If so, how could I have found it myself?
[09:00] <bradb> mpt: MFP is about showing three columns of bugs on the distro bug listing. Not quite the same as what I'm suggesting.
[09:00] <mpt> It's about changing the bugs that are shown on a distribution's "Bugs" page
[09:00] <mpt> that they're in columns is a layout detail.
[09:01] <SteveA> mpt: the easy way is to program the view class so that there is an attribute called has_performed_search that is set
[09:11] <mpt> If I was smart, I'd know how to do that
[09:11] <kiko> you are
[09:11] <mpt> It looks like it should go in bugtarget.py
[09:11] <mpt> but that has nothing about searches in it
[09:11] <mpt> ah, bugtask.py
[09:12] <mpt> that has searchy stuff in it
[09:13] <mpt> class BugTaskSearchListingView -- that seems about right
[09:18] <mpt> so kiko, do I just plunk "has_performed_search = True" inside search() in BugTaskSearchListingView?
[09:19] <kiko> mpt, that should work -- are you calling search() from the template?
[09:19] <mpt> ... task_batch_navigator view/search">
[09:20] <mpt> looks like it
[09:20] <SteveA> you should put has_performed_search = False in the class, at the class level
[09:21] <kiko> right
[09:21] <mpt> right after the docstring?
[09:21] <kiko> that's fine
[09:22] <mpt> then tal:condition="view/has_performed_search"
[09:23] <kiko> right
[09:24] <mpt> hmm
[09:24] <kiko> I can go up and help you soon if you like
[09:24] <kiko> or ask matsubara 
[09:24] <mpt> It's no longer showing "No results found" when I haven't searched
[09:24] <mpt> but nor is it showing when I *have* searched
[09:29] <mpt> kiko, we're a little stuck
[09:29] <kiko> okay, I need to finish this phone call
[09:29] <mpt> matsubara thought they both needed "self." on the front
[09:30] <mpt> the one at the class level, and the one in the function
[09:30] <kiko> no
[09:30] <mpt> but self. doesn't work at the class level, so that's not right
[09:30] <kiko> the class-level attribute doesn't need self
[09:30] <kiko> right
[09:31] <mpt> I think I know the problem
[09:31] <mpt> the template is doing a search for nothing even on "...+bugs"
[09:31] <mpt> which is setting off view/search, which is setting the flag to True
[09:32] <kiko> you can raise AssertionError to make sure
[09:32] <ddaa> SteveA: up for a quick review? The update to BranchPullListing, for jblack: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/david/launchpad/BranchPullListing-by-id/full-diff
[09:32] <ddaa> I'd like to send the merge for that tonight so it can make it into monday's rollout.
[09:33] <SteveA> ddaa: not today, sorry
[09:33] <ddaa> kiko?
[09:33] <kiko> I'm on the phone today, grumble
[09:34] <ddaa> BjornT: ?
[09:34] <kiko> ddaa, if nobody else can I can do it
[09:35] <ddaa> kiko: no worries, I still have a few reviewers left to try.
[09:35] <BjornT> ddaa: sure, i can do it
[09:35] <ddaa> yay!
[09:35] <kiko> cool
[09:49] <kiko> matsubara, what bug is https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/5489
[09:49] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5489: "You are now logged in" provides no way out. In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5489
[09:49] <kiko>  a dupe of
[09:49] <BjornT> ddaa: looks good, r=bjornt
[09:49] <ddaa> comments?
[09:50] <mpt> kiko, I was going to get to that shortly
[09:51] <kiko> mpt, ah, most valuable
[09:52] <kiko> we need to fix this friggin bug
[09:52] <matsubara> kiko: 3057 maybe
[09:52] <matsubara> kiko: bug 3057 maybe
[09:52] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3057: "You're already logged in" message should never occur In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3057
[09:52] <mpt> no, matsubara, an earlier one
[09:53] <mpt> 3057 is a bit different
[09:53] <kiko> it's different
[09:54] <BjornT> ddaa: well, it was a really small change. maybe i'd say that test_get_line_for_branch tests the same thing three times. or maybe i'm just too tired to spot the other flaws in the patch :)
[09:55] <matsubara> mpt: bug 449 ? 
[09:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #449: Logging in should take you to logged-in version of previous page In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Fixed https://launchpad.net/bugs/449
[09:55] <ddaa> BjornT: well spotted. The patch made the logic much simpler, I simplified some tests but missed that one.
[09:55] <mpt> later than that :-)
[09:56] <mpt> 449's fixed, matsubara 
[09:56] <mpt> and when it was fixed, the front page was deliberately made an exception, and should not have been
[09:57] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  Minor cleanup of person page (r2901: Matthew Paul Thomas)
[09:59] <kiko> hmmm
[09:59] <kiko> maybe it isn't filed
[09:59] <mpt> matsubara found it, and it has four (now) five duplicates
[09:59] <mpt> bug 1612
[09:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1612: Logging in from front page doesn't return to front page In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612
[10:00] <kiko> https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/1612
[10:00] <kiko> right
[10:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1612: Logging in from front page doesn't return to front page In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Critical, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/1612
[10:00] <kiko> :)
[10:00] <kiko> dupe it!
[10:00] <mpt> matsubara's the man
[10:01] <matsubara> mpt, kiko: done
[10:03] <mpt> 7pm, I'm going home
[10:07] <kiko> thanks!
[10:07] <ddaa> thanks BjornT, merge request sent
[10:17] <jblack> ddaa: pong
[10:18] <ddaa> jblack: I wanted to know if you wanted your urls to be urlencoded. But too late, the patch has been reviewed and merge request has been sent already.
[10:19] <jblack> my urls to be url encoded. More context please?
[10:21] <jblack> ddaa:^
[10:21] <ddaa> in your branch listing
[10:22] <ddaa> you can check /home/warthogs/archives/david/launchpad/BranchPullListing-by-id to see if that's what you want.
[10:23] <jblack> I'm expecting raw urls.
[10:23] <ddaa> Fine.
[10:23] <ddaa> I'm wasted, got 9 working hours on chronometer
[10:23] <jblack> Heh.
[10:24] <jblack> Give me a moment. ;)
[10:24] <jblack> What concern are you addressing by urlencoding the urls in the branch list? 
[10:24] <ddaa> none in particular
[10:25] <ddaa> it just occured to me that the tests did not cover anything fancy, non-ascii chars, whitespaces, etc. in urls
[10:25] <jblack> which module did you use for urlencode?
[10:25] <ddaa> I did not use anything
[10:25] <jblack> no, mine don't either. 
[10:25] <jblack> Is lp sanitizing input? 
[10:25] <ddaa> I just did the simplest thing possible
[10:25] <ddaa> well... there's a DB constraint
[10:26] <ddaa> so it will reject patently unsafe output like file paths...
[10:26] <ddaa> dunno how much it does besides that
[10:26] <jblack> Ok. I'll think about it tonight while you're sleeping
[10:27] <ddaa> the page is not going to show anything that starts with 'http://bazaar.ubuntu.com/', as well.
[10:28] <ddaa> jblack: may I turn into a pumpkin now?
[10:28] <jblack> sleep well buddy
[10:36] <kiko> matsubara, can you file a bug on the issue for https://launchpad.net/sprints/instant/+workload
[10:36] <kiko> it's a 500 error
[10:36] <kiko> the traceback is in the error reports
[10:36] <kiko> also:
[10:36] <kiko> 3       UnicodeEncodeError: 'ascii' codec can't encode characters in position 0-5:
[10:36] <kiko> +ordinal not in range(128)
[10:36] <kiko>         https://launchpad.net/calendar/+index/+login
[10:36] <kiko>         https://launchpad.net/token/dSBmQ91J4TWrmSD9651W/+newaccount
[10:37] <kiko> 25      TypeError: int() argument must be a string or a number
[10:37] <kiko>         https://shipit.ubuntu.com/myrequest
[10:37] <kiko> and another one
[10:37] <kiko> 4       NotFoundError: (<canonical.launchpad.webapp.tales.ObjectFormatterAPI
[10:37] <kiko> +object at INSTANCE-ID>, 'date')
[10:37] <kiko> +https://launchpad.net/products/edubuntu.cookbook/+milestone/bzr-branch-created/+e
[10:37] <kiko> +dit
[10:43] <matsubara> bug 5495
[10:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5495: System error when trying to access the Show workload of a sprint In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5495
[10:44] <kiko> matsubara, you can fix that one :)
[10:45] <kiko> mdz!
[10:57] <jblack> mpt: ping
[10:57] <kiko> ahoy maties
[10:57] <kiko> long phone call but SteveA is the man
[11:13] <kiko> SteveA, I forgot to explain salgado's problem, will do so tomorrow
[11:19] <bradb> kiko: Still plugging away on IBC. I /feel/ like I've been getting a lot done over the past couple days, but there's still a bit more to do (fix a few more broken tests and add UI tests if the test recorder can hack it.) activity report says it all.
[11:19] <kiko> okay, that's cool