[12:02] <\sh> daniels: but you agree with "xauth is the cause"?
[12:03] <daniels> \sh: nope, sounds like the server simply isn't starting to be honest (note how it fails to kill the process -- i assume this is the server)
[12:03] <daniels> ogra: oh?
[12:03] <daniels> mvo: sweet
[12:04] <\sh> daniels: when you check xvfv-run...it wants to create an xauth entry bla...and it failes..check the lines in xvfb-run (where it's failing, from the buildlogs)
[12:04] <ogra> daniels, i have the same  /usr/lib/xserver/SecurityPolicy prob seb128 has 
[12:04] <mvo> isn't that cute :) I guess I should report a bug on freedesktops bugzilla? I get "unknown device id, assuming plain r300", maybe that is the cause already
[12:05] <ogra> daniels, linking it to the right place i dont get this error anymore, but the server still doesnt start ... no errors though 
[12:06] <seb128> 'night guys, see you tomorrow
[12:06] <mvo> night seb128 
[12:07] <daniels> /usr/bin/xvfb-run: line 158: kill: (13770) - No such process
[12:07] <daniels> lines 157 and 158:
[12:07] <daniels> # Kill Xvfb now that the command has exited.
[12:07] <daniels> kill $XVFBPID
[12:08] <daniels> line 153 is where it actually runs the *command* you ask it to, and that tanks because it raises SIGTRAP
[12:08] <daniels> that is, glade-2 does
[12:08] <daniels> and again, line 158 fails
[12:08] <daniels> so my guess is that the server isn't starting for some reason
[12:08] <\sh> daniels: the other buildlog has no glade-2 but python :) but as well gtk2 deps I think :)
[12:09] <daniels> mvo: might want to fake it to some random chipid listed in http://cvs.freedesktop.org/xorg/xc/programs/Xserver/hw/xfree86/drivers/ati/radeon_chipset.h?
[12:09] <daniels> maybe _chipset.c
[12:09] <daniels> \sh: right
[12:09] <\sh> it's somehow confusing..
[12:09] <daniels> \sh: and notice how it doesn't fail at line 153 there
[12:09] <daniels> it just says that it couldn't connect to the server
[12:09] <daniels> and then later it says that it can't kill the server because it's an invalid pid
[12:09] <daniels> my guess is that the font path is broken in the same way as xnest
[12:09] <ogra> its running an Xserver during build o_O ?
[12:09] <daniels> ogra: which server?
[12:10] <ogra> daniels, trident
[12:10] <daniels> ogra: yes, this is fucked, but people always do it for some reason
[12:10] <daniels> ogra: ah, xorg
[12:10] <ogra> yup
[12:10] <daniels> ogra: can you please send the full log?
[12:10] <ogra> eys, but its not really helpful
[12:10] <ogra> *yes
[12:11] <\sh> ogra: it's running an X app during build...and it needs somehow xvfb..for whatever strange reason and without some rational...but I don't want to fight with debian upstream
[12:12] <\sh> daniels: I'll check it tomorrow in a clean dchroot want me to file a bug against xvfb with the results? 
[12:13] <daniels> \sh: to be honest, not particularly; i'll fix the font path issue today or tomorrow, depending on how progress goes with rc3, so try when the new xorg-server hits
[12:13] <\sh> daniels: great...
[12:13] <\sh> s/tomorrow/today in a few hours/ :( I need some sleep
[12:18] <mjg59> Right, that's the ACPI plumbing done...
[12:18] <ogra> daniels, 20563 is for you :)
[12:19] <lifeless> daniels: be sad to see you go, but enjoy uni ;)
[12:19] <daniels> ogra: the SIGILL is the useful bit ...
[12:19] <daniels> it should be giving a backtrace though
[12:20] <daniels> ogra: i assume that using vesa would fix it
[12:20] <daniels> lifeless: heh, thanks
[12:20] <ogra> i'll try
[12:20] <daniels> lifeless: not for a month and a half yet
[12:20] <lifeless> daniels: well, advance warning then :)
[12:20] <daniels> yeah
[12:20] <azeem> daniels: oh, cool
[12:21] <azeem> what you gonna study?
[12:21] <daniels> azeem: ?
[12:21] <daniels> heh
[12:21] <mjg59> So now I have a kernel that will tell me whenever I plug/unplug the CD drive in this laptop
[12:21] <daniels> i'm in the middle of a software engineering + arts (indonesian) degree
[12:21] <ogra> daniels, nope 
[12:21] <azeem> ah
[12:21] <daniels> ogra: interesting
[12:21] <daniels> ogra: if you want to run gdb from another machine and get a bt, that'd be rad
[12:22] <ogra> wow, you can mix software engeneering with arts ? 
[12:22] <daniels> two degrees -- engineering and arts
[12:23] <ogra> daniels, i wont do the gdb session today anymore (its late here and  had much wine already) will follow up on the bug
[12:24] <daniels> ogra: that's cool, thanks
[12:24] <ogra> :)
[12:33] <mvo> daniels: I found (and hopefuly fixed) the dri message, let's see if it helps :) 
[12:34] <daniels> mvo: cool
[12:34] <daniels> mvo: fixed in cvs?
[12:35] <mvo> no idea, I need to check that
[12:35] <ryanpg> Hi all... I read the mail from Keybuk on devel-announce, I've experienced some issues with the udev switchover... we're asked to report here?
[12:36] <mdke> ryanpg, keybuk isn't here right now, I filed a bug on udev, it gets assigned to him. You can try doing that?
[12:36] <ryanpg> mdke, sure thing... you started a bug? should I add to it? if so do you know the #?
[12:37] <mdke> ryanpg, only if it is the same problem... mine is about a sata controller for a laptop hard disk
[12:37] <ryanpg> mdke, ok different issue
[12:38] <mdke> ryanpg, have a search of bugzilla :)
[12:38] <ryanpg> yep... mdke I'll be doing that :)
[12:57] <jdong> elmo: I gotta go end world hunger; if you have anything you need to talk to me about, please don't hesitate to e-mail me
[12:57] <jdong> have fun everyone
[12:58] <jdong> or at least get snowflakes unbanned from our school :)
[12:59] <jbailey> jdong: You can have ours. =)
[01:00] <ryanpg> ok I made a new bug, any kind soul with time on their hands is encouraged to check bugzilla.ubuntu.com #20564 for "goodness", it's my first ubuntu bug :D
[01:01] <jdong> jbailey: thanks... and i also need bells, gifts, horseshoes, snowflakes, snowmen, crosses, giving tree, bunny, turkeys unbanned too :)
[01:01] <jbailey> I'm all up until the last two.
[01:01] <jbailey> And then it depends if you're planning on eating them or not. =)
[01:05] <jdong> jbailey: the bunny?
[01:05] <jbailey> or the turkey. =)
[01:07] <jdong> lol, have fun guys
[01:11] <ryanpg> aww crap... dapper bugs should go to "malone"?
[01:12] <Burgwork> ryanpg, universe bugs go to malone
[01:13] <EdLin> The Ubuntu bugzilla website is acting non-functional when I try to enter a new bug report.
[01:13] <ryanpg> Burgwork, ok so my udev bug is correctly placed in bugzilla.ubuntu
[01:14] <ogra> yup
[01:15] <EdLin> ogra, is that "yup" directed at me?
[01:15] <ogra> EdLin, nope at ryanpg 
[01:16] <EdLin> I've got the bug report exported to a file, but don't have a mail server operating, is it possible to mail the information somewhere with evol?
[01:21] <ryanpg> EdLin, I just entered a bug there a few minutes ago btw
[01:23] <EdLin> ryanpg, OK. I just noticed that the bug report program's exported text file contains an email address (at gnome.org) that I can use, I'll use that - especially since it would probably be marked "upstream" anyway.
[01:26] <seth_k|lappy> who staff
[01:26] <seth_k|lappy> blast
[01:26] <seth_k|lappy> sorry, forgot my slash
[01:28] <ryanpg> thanks for the help all... I'm off
[01:49] <lathiat> Aavahi 3
[02:04] <maswan> Nafallo_away: pong
[02:24] <wasabi> jbailey: initramfs evms stuff is busted.
[02:24] <wasabi> again. heh.
[02:25] <jbailey> wasabi: How this time?
[02:25] <jbailey> infinity: ^^^
[02:25] <wasabi> Not sure, was at work, had to fix it and get back to work hehe.
[02:25] <wasabi> Looked like the md local-top script wasn't detecting my md.
[02:25] <wasabi> Again.
[02:25] <wasabi> (and since evms isn't going to do it, it never got done)
[02:25] <jbailey> If you can record what you did to get it running and fire that into bugzilla that'd be lovely.
[02:25] <wasabi> =)
[02:26] <xhaker> there is a regression on laptop-mode-tools i think... hibernation is spawned when i reduce the LCD brightness of my Acer laptop
[02:26] <wasabi> Well, what I did was slam modprobe raid1 and force_load raid1 into it.
[02:26] <wasabi> So I might GUESS that those were missing. ;0
[02:26] <jbailey> I don't really hack on initramfs-tools much now, it's mostly adam and scott.
[02:26] <wasabi> Ahhh.
[02:26] <jbailey> I can still help with it, since I'm quite familiar with the code, but I'm headed to bed shortly. =)
[02:26] <jbailey> I'm quite tired.
[02:26] <wasabi> s'ok, I'll take a look at it again
[02:26] <jbailey> (I think I'm fighting something.  Hopefully sleep will keep it away)
[02:27] <wasabi> uh oh
[04:20] <desrt> is dapper version frozen?
[04:20] <infinity> ...?
[04:20] <infinity> Oh, you mean have we hit upstream version freeze?  No.
[04:20] <desrt> is it in UVF yet
[04:20] <desrt> excellent.
[04:20] <infinity> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[04:20] <desrt> thanks.
[04:39] <YokoZar> Am I allowed to promote my own spec from braindump to drafting?  I think it's ready to be reviewed: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UsefulDisksManagerSpec
[04:43] <ajmitch> if it's ready for reviewing, set it as pending review
[04:43] <ajmitch> you are doing this in launchpad, right?
[04:46] <ajmitch> YokoZar: I'd say it'd need the implementation section filled in a bit before it got reviewed
[04:46] <YokoZar> ajmitch it's linked in launchpad, yes
[04:47] <YokoZar> Isn't the implementation section for...stuff that's done?
[04:48] <DsM> anyone know how to sign up to be a mirror for ubuntu?
[04:48] <ajmitch> YokoZar: no, implementation is for how you're going to do it
[04:49] <YokoZar> What if I don't know, since I have no idea how the disks manager applet is configured?
[04:49] <YokoZar> Err, coded.
[04:50] <ajmitch> not sure what you'll want to fill in , sorry :)
[04:51] <YokoZar> I'll put it up to drafting and ask for review, heh
[04:52] <YokoZar> While we're on the subject, what do you think of this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BetterIntegratedWineSpec
[04:53] <ajmitch> you might wait awhile for review
[04:54] <ajmitch> you'd need to fill out implementation there as well, saying how you'd do it
[04:54] <YokoZar> Indeed.  This is what I get for not thinking of the idea before you all ran off into the snow-filled wastes of Canada
[04:55] <ajmitch> :)
[04:55] <YokoZar> ajmitch: that part I actually can do, heh
[04:55] <ajmitch> there wasn't any snow around, sadly
[04:55] <YokoZar> (for Wine)
[04:56] <ajmitch> I'd like to see some menu integration there, but as you said, it's likely for dapper+1
[04:57] <YokoZar> I think the fonts idea can be done in time, though
[04:59] <ajmitch> at least winetools appears to have gone from dapper
[05:00] <ajmitch> or was it that winesetup that needed removed?
[05:05] <YokoZar> ajmitch: winesetuptk and xwine needed to be killed
[05:06] <YokoZar> ajmitch: as soon as I get my key signed and upload rights they'll probably get removed since they'll conflict with their dependency, heh
[05:07] <ajmitch> or you could get someone to put in the conflicts now
[05:07] <ajmitch> I know that winesetuptk is quite obsolete with the config changes now
[05:15] <LaserJock> is there a reason why there are no Contents-*.gz for dapper on a.you.c?
[05:19] <LaserJock> kamion| mdz| lamont| infinity| elmo: ping? ^^
[05:25] <psusi> I did an update of dapper today and x won't start now because it can't find my usb mouse... the kernel seems to see it but the devnode isn't being created... isn't there some major overhaul going on of the plug and play stuff?
[05:25] <daniels> udev
[05:25] <daniels> 'Dapper has new kernels and new world order, upgrading for the adventurous only (and those with another machine to use)'
[05:26] <daniels> from the topic
[05:26] <psusi> what about it?  I still don't understand devices.. it used to be you just used mknod to make the dev nodes you need... then there was something about a devfs... now udev... hotplug... I can't figure it all out
[05:26] <elmo> psusi: then you probably shouldn't be messing with dapper at the moment
[05:27] <TerminX> speaking of udev, where do I put stuff now that previously went in udev.rules?  tried adding custom rules to stuff in rules.d but had no luck
[05:27] <TerminX> had to go get the udev package from sid because the one in dapper won't do a thing for me now (such as create mouse device nodes)
[05:28] <psusi> so... udev was a deamon that handled creating the devnodes for detected devices... and dapper is dropping it for something else?
[05:28] <daniels> psusi: this probably isn't the forum for explaining udev, I'm afriad ...
[05:28] <psusi> what would be?
[05:29] <LaserJock> elmo: is there a reason why there are no Contents-*.gz for dapper on a.you.c?
[05:29] <whiprush> just blame daniels for everything. :p
[05:29] <psusi> lol
[05:29] <elmo> LaserJock: it's expensive to run, and I haven't gotten round to setting it up for dapper yet
[05:29] <psusi> actually... it's kind of nice not having X working... I got too used to it... it's nice being back in a console running bitchx with a custom console font
[05:30] <LaserJock> elmo: oh, ok. no problem. I was trying to run apt-file but it uses the Contents-*.gz files so I couldn't use it on dapper. I just used breezy instead
[05:30] <infinity> I must be suffering a case of mechanic's syndrome, cause USB mice work fine for me.
[05:31] <psusi> infinity did you update today?
[05:31] <infinity> psusi : Not yet.  Did it just break today?
[05:31] <TerminX> no, not today
[05:31] <TerminX> the latest udev is 5 days old
[05:31] <psusi> the other day I noticed that the mouse broke when I tried to use my old kernel isntead of the new one in dapper.. custom 2.6.14... but it worked fine with the 2.6.15 that dapper finally got
[05:32] <psusi> but today I updated and it broke using the new kernel
[05:32] <infinity> Oh, well, yes.  I do use the dapper kernel. :)
[05:32] <psusi> there was a new kernel today
[05:33] <infinity> I know.
[05:33] <infinity> Rebooting to it in a few minutes.
[05:33] <psusi> so where can I read up some more on the changes to udev in dapper?
[05:33] <infinity> ubuntu-devel-announce
[05:34] <infinity> Which you should subscribe to if you're using dapper.
[05:35] <psusi> I'm substrubed to ubuntu-devel... isn't the announce redundant then?
[05:37] <whiprush> check out dapper-changes as well.
[05:37] <daniels> Kamion: are you still planning to do flight 2 tomorrow?
[05:37] <infinity> psusi : No, announce isn't redundant.
[05:38] <psusi> hrm... ok... I'll subscribe to those too then
[05:39] <infinity> In this case, though, reading changelogs before installing, I'll lay my blame with the new udev.
[05:39] <infinity> 0.77's changelog looks... Interesting.
[05:39] <psusi> hrm... that's another thing I've noticed lately... changelogs don't work or are not being made
[05:39] <psusi> even in breezy
[05:39] <infinity> Install apt-listchanges.
[05:40] <psusi> I have a server at work running breezy and I noticed today it had a few new packages... apache and whatnot
[05:40] <infinity> The changelog-grabbing feature in update-notifier is a bit delayed.
[05:40] <psusi> I chose the option in synaptic to get the changelog and it said it failed to fetch it
[05:40] <infinity> (ie: stuff doesn't get to changelogs.ubuntu.com for a while after the packages hit the archive)
[05:40] <psusi> that's what I figured...
[05:40] <psusi> why's it take so long?
[05:41] <infinity> You have a server running X? :)
[05:41] <psusi> yea... got it running tightvnc server started from xinit too, so it's like a terminal server
[05:41] <psusi> it's prety neat
[05:41] <psusi> I mean xinetd
[05:44] <infinity> ogra : Your kino package overwrites files from kino-dvtitler.
[05:44] <ajmitch> he knows
[05:44] <infinity> Oh, good.
[06:05] <elmo> infinity: umm, I thought you fixed our buildd-watcher?
[06:06] <elmo> infinity: weddell is being bad anyways
[06:22] <fabbione> morning
[06:23] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[06:33] <Orborde> How do I determine what arch a package installed on my system is from?
[06:33] <Orborde> s/arch/repo/
[06:33] <desrt> uname -m
[06:33] <desrt> look in /var/lib/dpkg/status
[06:34] <desrt> eek.  then cross-reference the version against what's in each repo, i guess
[06:34] <Orborde> Arg
[06:36] <crimsun> Orborde: apt-cache policy foo
[06:36] <fabbione> hmmm
[06:37] <fabbione> desrt: i am so sleepy that for a second i thought you were clueful :P
[06:37] <Orborde> crimsun: Thanks
[06:37] <desrt> fabbione; die.  my first answer was a good one :p
[06:37] <fabbione> hahaha
[06:38] <desrt> it's a good question though... why doesn't source distribution end up in dpkg status
[06:38] <desrt> i guess because it's not known at package build time?
[06:39] <fabbione> the dpkg status doesn't need these info
[06:39] <fabbione> you are looking in the wrong place
[06:39] <desrt> so that answer to "How do I determine what arch a package installed on my system is from?" is actually "you don't."
[06:40] <fabbione> i am not even sure i understand the question
[06:40] <desrt> since, for example, in dapper and breezy right now, a -lot- of packages have exactly the same version
[06:40] <fabbione> you can't mix i386 and amd64 .deb on a system
[06:40] <crimsun> I think he means repo instead of arch
[06:40] <desrt> 00:33 <Orborde> s/arch/repo/
[06:40] <fabbione> oh sure.. one sec...
[06:41] <fabbione> i was just looking at something like this yesterday
[06:41] <Orborde> fabbione: crimsun answered it already :)
[06:41] <fabbione> Orborde: that's the lazy way :)
[06:41] <desrt> Orborde; but does that tell you the installed one or if you were to install it now?
[06:41] <crimsun> Orborde: that really only works if you have one set of repos, too
[06:42] <fabbione> desrt: installed one i am pretty sure
[06:42] <desrt> apt-cache?!
[06:42] <desrt> hmm
[06:42] <fabbione> ok i will cast my right to answer after the coffee
[06:44] <Orborde> Argh. I dun wanna sign up for launchpad :(
[06:44] <Orborde> I have an Xfce4-related bug, but xfce4 is universe and thus out of the Bugzilla
[06:45] <crimsun> https://launchpad.net/malone
[06:46] <fabbione> Orborde: launchpad is fun :)
[06:47] <Orborde> It wants me to register.
[06:47] <infinity> elmo : I think I saw something shinier and got distracted.
[06:47] <ajmitch> registration isn't painful
[07:00] <infinity> keybuk, too.
[07:28] <dilinger> what's a whatfor?
[07:30] <Tm_T> what for
[07:30] <Tm_T> ;)
[07:31] <Tm_T> anyway, dunno is it init.d/networking script or something else but my network connection doesn't come up(or if does, it comes down too) at startup
[07:31] <Tm_T> oh, dapper is humorous sometimes =)
[07:34] <infinity> elmo : Okay, buildd-watcher fixed.
[07:40] <crimsun> elmo: please sync xerces25 and xerces26 from Sid (ok to override Ubuntu changes), thanks
[07:42] <zakame> elmo: please sync ickle from sid, ok to override Ubuntu changes, thanks :)
[07:50] <HiddenWolf> Is some part of apache part of the default install?
[07:52] <crimsun> elmo: please sync scim from Sid (ok to override Ubuntu changes), thanks
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning ubuntites :)
[08:37] <whiprush> dholbach: hey ubuntero. :)
[08:37] <dholbach> hey whiprush! :)
[08:38] <dholbach> long time no se
[08:38] <dholbach> see
[08:38] <whiprush> heh
[08:41] <dholbach> whiprush: how are you?
[08:42] <whiprush> dholbach: busy at work. 
[08:43] <dholbach> i can imagine
[08:43] <dholbach> but you always found time to fridge :)
[08:43] <whiprush> lots of ubuntu deployment stuff actually.
[08:43] <dholbach> COOL! :)
[08:43] <whiprush> well, wrestling with gconf isn't what I'd consider "cool", but it's working out.
[08:44] <whiprush> but hey, life on the edge I suppose.
[08:44] <dholbach> :_D
[08:44] <dholbach> :-D
[08:45] <whiprush> keep rocking that tango package man, it's sweet.
[08:47] <dholbach> really? i think it got a bit too blue-ish  for my nerves
[08:50] <whiprush> dholbach: one of the novell guys in #tango mentioned that they would keep the gray icons for NLD.
[08:50] <whiprush> I'd like to see a ubuntuized set in the tango style for the folders personally.
[08:51] <dholbach> whiprush: if we'd get our artwork team to work on that, i'd be happy
[08:51] <whiprush> is andy fitz still around?
[08:52] <dholbach> AndyFitz: ping :)
[08:52] <whiprush> heh.
[08:52] <AndyFitz> dholbach: pong
[08:52] <dholbach> whiprush: he is :)
[08:52] <dholbach> AndyFitz: whiprush would liked to see a ubuntuized set of tango icons - what do you think about that?
[08:52] <whiprush> hey so dude, Tango-human?
[08:53] <sivang> morning all!
[08:56] <AndyFitz> dholbach, whiprush.  I'm already on it.  checkout the svg files at http://www.brisgeek.com/file/sample.tar.bz2
[08:57] <whiprush> AndyFitz: you rock.
[08:57] <AndyFitz> I'll be releasing the full set at LCA along with instructions on how to modify the global stylesheet ;-)
[08:57] <AndyFitz> all using the tango metaphors and naming spec
[08:57] <dholbach> page not found
[08:58] <AndyFitz> imagine toggling drop shadows, outlines shifting the opacity of 'shiny' gloss effects and total palette changes ;-)
[08:58] <AndyFitz> http://www.brisgeek.com/files/sample.tar.bz2
[08:58] <AndyFitz> oops
[08:58] <AndyFitz> hacking on a drupal install at the moment
[09:02] <AndyFitz> the tango naming spec and the metaphors list to keep things familiar for all users is awesome work
[09:03] <dholbach> yeah, that's great
[09:03] <HiddenWolf> Will that be the new look for dapper? :)
[09:05] <infinity> AndyFitz : I still don't dig that chat icon, BTW... The speech bubble (when shrunk down small) looks like a tooth.  Looks like something I'd see at a dentist's office.
[09:05] <infinity> AndyFitz : Not entirely sure how a happy face relates to chatting either. :)
[09:05] <AndyFitz> well mate, you just sent me one
[09:06] <HiddenWolf> infinity, you dug yourself in there ;)
[09:06] <infinity> (I don't use graphical emoticons, so they don't register with me as "relating to chatting")
[09:06] <AndyFitz> I'm following the metaphors on the tango site. so nothings 'all my fault ;-)'  whats funky about those is in the xml
[09:06] <infinity> It's like saying the "uh oh" sound relates to chatting, because we all used ICQ 8 years ago.
[09:07] <HiddenWolf> Now _THAT_ was annoying.
[09:08] <AndyFitz> rsvg and inkscape don't support external stylesheets .  btu the inline styles are easily  sed/awked out of there and replaced with consolidated classes when they both do support it .   we are talking <10kb icons
[09:09] <AndyFitz> infinity, stop being emo.  smiling is chatting. if its not use a different icon..  like the logout one
[09:09] <AndyFitz> hehe
[09:09] <infinity> Thpt. :)
[09:09] <infinity> The speech bubble is chatting, no arguments there.
[09:09] <infinity> (Though obscured by the smiley, it turns into a tooth, I SWEAR TO GOD)
[09:13] <AndyFitz>  I don't see that.  even so :  _tooth_ is  in the _mouth_  which is what you can  _talk with instatly_ 
[09:17] <ajmitch> elmo: please sync spplus, slides from debian, dropping changes
[09:29] <mahangu_> any LoTR fans here?
[09:50] <\sh> hehe this morning on heise.de
[09:50] <\sh> "German Stock Exchange removes Elmos from TecDax List"
[10:14] <seb128> morning
[10:15] <infinity> I've already kicked it enough for both of us.
[10:16] <seb128> thanks ;)
[10:16] <infinity> What's your udev issue? :)
[10:16] <Tm_T> uh
[10:17] <seb128> infinity: eth not bringed up at boot, which is not an issue, and xorg refusing to start because no mouse which bother me actually, I had to downgrade udev
[10:17] <infinity> Oh, you're another "no mouse" guy.  Neat.  I wonder why my mouse works...
[10:18] <infinity> My complaint it with my hard drive being randomly renamed, but I've tracked that bug.  I just need to yell at Scott about it when he gets online.
[10:25] <seb128_> re
[10:27] <Tm_T> seb128_: my eth isn't bringed up at boot either
[10:28] <seb128_> this one is a known issue IIRC
[10:28] <Tm_T> good
[10:28] <Tm_T> then I'm not worried
[10:31] <minghua> infinity: now you have yet another "no mouse" guy here :-)
[10:33] <doko> seb128_: strange panel behaviour: the Applications menu doesn't stay open, it just blinks and then minimizes to a small point, the other menus do work. any hints?
[10:34] <mvo> doko: knonwn issue
[10:34] <mvo> it's a gamin bug apparently 
[10:41] <seb128_> doko: yeah, known issue, I've forwarded it upstream but they are not really responsive
[10:42] <seb128_> doko: I don't have the issue on my box to debug it ...
[10:45] <hunger> siretart: Yes.
[10:49] <\sh> upgrading to dapper again :)
[11:46] <Diziet> otu
[11:46] <Diziet> Oops.
[11:46] <dholbach> you surely mean Motu :)
[11:47] <Diziet> That's what I was searching for in scrollback :-).
[11:47] <Diziet> Launchpad has sent us this silly mail and I was wondering if anyone had grumbled and suggested it should send it to a smaller group of people.
[11:48] <dholbach> Diziet: i grumbled already
[11:48] <dholbach> but in #ubuntu-motu
[11:48] <Diziet> What did they say ?
[11:48] <dholbach> we agreed on not making ubuntu-dev or ubuntu-core-dev administrators, which would solve the problem
[11:49] <dholbach> (but keep the team model intact)
[11:50] <Diziet> Mmhmm.
[11:50] <Kamion> they aren't administrators now; I assume that was fixed by the time I went to look at it earlier this morning
[11:51] <siretart> hi
[11:51] <dholbach> siretart is the motureviewers team architect :)
[11:52] <siretart> ah
[11:52] <siretart> Diziet: Kamion I removed ubuntu-dev from administrator status of motureviewers now. Now the team MOTU is admin of motureviewers and should therefore get all the spam
[11:53] <siretart> this was done just a few hours ago, just after dholbach notified me about that spamming
[12:00] <Kamion> siretart: that's fine, thanks
[12:17] <ogra> yippie, only pmi and acpi-support left as uninstallables on the CD :)
[12:18] <sladen> wifi/sound aren't loaded atm
[12:19] <Kamion> ogra: those should be fixed RSN; I did a couple of promotions this morning
[12:19] <ogra> sladen, hmm, i'm not at the -7 kernel yet but it works here since -5
[12:20] <Kamion> the most recent build failed because language-support-en was uninstallable for some reason
[12:20] <ogra> meh
[12:21] <Keybuk> wasn't that a firefoxism?
[12:21] <Kamion> I was just saying that to infinity, yes
[12:21] <Kamion> please somebody update mozilla-firefox-locale-all
[12:22] <Kamion> it should be relatively straightforward; the source is basically just a pile of XPIs you can download
[12:22] <Kamion> you'd need to test it in various locales
[12:23] <infinity> Testing, schmesting.  It can't get any more broken than it currently is. :P
[12:23] <sladen> mozilla-firefox-en-gb still needs to be uninstalled to do an update
[12:23] <ogra> infinity, are you an active kino user ? 
[12:24] <infinity> ogra : Not frequent, no.  Just enough to notice that it was broken.
[12:24] <ogra> hmmkay
[12:24] <ogra> but you could test it  ? i'm missing the right HW here ...
[12:25] <infinity> Define "test".. I can test the video editing bits, I can't do any DV.
[12:26] <ogra> would be enough for now ... i'm hoping anyway that debian updates to 0.8.0 before UVF .... 0.7 doesnt run with newer gtk versions and i had to close the merge bug ...
[12:26] <infinity> Oh great, there's no m-f-l-a package in experimental yet.
[12:27] <infinity> ogra : Kay, bug me tomorrow when I'm not on a livefs warpath.
[12:27] <ogra> yup
[12:27] <ogra> will fix the package first
[12:29] <zyga> hello
[12:29] <zyga> ogra: is that hwdb-client branch ready? :)
[12:30] <ogra> zyga, i'll make it ready after the edubuntu meeting today 
[12:30] <zyga> ogra: thanks :-)
[12:31] <zyga> I'm finally done withmy RL jobs and I've got some more time to spend 
[12:31] <MindOfChaos> Hello
[12:42] <infinity> I'll ont question it for this update though, I'll let pitti deal with it later.
[12:43] <pitti> infinity: you mean the source package is missing some xpis?
[12:44] <seb128> hey pitti, you should not be working today :p
[12:44] <pitti> seb128: I'm not :)
[12:44] <seb128> good ;)
[12:44] <seb128> doing distro meeting this night?
[12:44] <pitti> I'm searchign for xmas presents *sigh*
[12:44] <pitti> (working is soo much easier...)
[12:45] <seb128> ah ah :)
[12:45] <pitti> seb128: yes, sure, I'll set my alarm clock and annoy my gf :)
[12:45] <seb128> he he
[12:48] <ogra> pitti, could you prioritize the gnome-screensaver main inclusion report ? mdz wants it on flight 2
[01:30] <fabbione> Kamion: it would be nice if we can also kill the apt-setup mirror quesion on netinstall
[01:32] <Kamion> fabbione: already dead
[01:32] <fabbione> great!
[01:32] <Kamion> apt-setup has been reimplemented and now just uses choose-mirror's data
[01:43] <slomo_> elmo: please delete the mplayer i uploaded a few minutes ago... it should go to revu instead :( sorry for the problems...
[01:45] <fabbione> slomo_: if it has been accepted, you can't delete it
[01:46] <siretart> no problem
[01:46] <siretart> we can also fix it in universe ;)
[01:46] <slomo_> fabbione: ok, np... then we have to repair it there ;)
[01:46] <fabbione> *cough*multiverse*cough*
[01:46] <siretart> excatly
[01:53] <siretart> the only problem is that the resulting mplayer binary package depends on a completly NEW package, 'mplayer-skins', which I just uploaded
[02:02] <Kamion> dholbach: shouldn't bakery2.3 be -15c2a rather than -15a? normal practice seems to be to use c2a even if it wasn't c2 before
[02:02] <Kamion> also makes for easier greppability
[02:03] <siretart> who processes the NEW queue?
[02:03] <dholbach> Kamion: hmmm, i thought i read "add 'a'" somewhere
[02:03] <Kamion> siretart: generally elmo
[02:03] <Kamion> dholbach: ah, check with doko then
[02:03] <siretart> ok
[02:04] <siretart> thanks
[02:04] <Kamion> siretart: mdz and I *can* do so but generally don't
[02:04] <dholbach> Kamion: i have no doubt that the soname will change soon again :)
[02:04] <dholbach> then i'll be able to remove the "a" :)
[02:05] <siretart> Kamion: its not that important. it is just mplayer in multiverse not being installable in dapper
[02:05] <siretart> without mplayer-skins I just uploaded
[02:05] <Kamion> siretart: it's only been there for 10 minutes; be patient, the queue is rarely very long
[02:06] <Kamion> (the oldest thing in the queue is 1 hour)
[02:06] <siretart> oh. sounds great :)
[02:26] <sivang> I am wondering, is that fact that I need to install portmap on a mchine in order to NFS mount a specific partitoin on antoher mahcine, an issue? Could this be made easier for the user to manage?
[02:32] <doko> dholbach, Kamion: maybe just reject, and sync from incoming
[02:33] <dholbach> doko: no, we have a newer version
[02:38] <Keybuk> hmm, why are some manpages executable?
[02:38] <Kamion> bug
[02:38] <Keybuk> they shouldn't be, then?
[02:39] <Kamion> I can't think of a good reason for a man page to ever be executable
[02:39] <Kamion> usually it's that somebody used 'install', which defaults to executable
[02:39] <Kamion> and didn't use dh_fixperms or similar
[02:47] <Keybuk> I. Hate. Dpatch.
[02:49] <sivang> hmm ,and also install nfs-client
[02:52] <pitti> Keybuk++
[02:52] <Keybuk> and do you know what I hate more than dpatch?
[02:52] <Keybuk> people who use dpatch to patch debian/*
[02:52] <ogra> eeek ...
[02:52] <Keybuk> deliberately
[02:52] <fabbione> you joking?
[02:53] <Keybuk> nope
[02:53] <fabbione> what pkg is that?
[02:53] <Keybuk> this is why it's taken me a week so far to merge sysvinit
[02:53] <fabbione> ah
[02:53] <Keybuk> you know how Debian maintainers bitched at us for changing their packages to dpatch?
[02:53] <Keybuk> I wonder whether we could bitch back about them changing packages to dpatch :p
[02:54] <fabbione> ahah
[02:55] <\sh> Keybuk: well...changing packages to dpatch is one...but generating libfoo.so.<major>.<minor> via automake from debian/changelog is much more weired
[02:55] <pitti> \sh: from changelog? that's interesting :)
[02:56] <Keybuk> \sh: generating libfoo.so.<major>.<minor> is a shooting offense
[02:56] <Keybuk> seriously
[02:56] <Keybuk> point me at them, and I'll break their arms
[02:56] <Keybuk> and then teach them lovingly about why SONAMEs matter while they're in hospital recovering
[02:59] <\sh> pitti: I had a package, it had selfmade m4 rules which checked debian/changelog version and took it to cr
[02:59] <\sh> eate the so.version
[02:59] <pitti> \sh: boggle
[02:59] <\sh> and working with an ubuntu version == no way
[02:59] <Keybuk> whoah
[03:00] <Keybuk> even better
[03:00] <Keybuk> this patch patches debian/rules
[03:00] <\sh> I had to friggle around this shit
[03:00] <Kamion> Keybuk: how does it work at all?
[03:00] <\sh> time for motu school...I tell ya
[03:00] <Kamion> I guess it must be patching something in a later target
[03:01] <Keybuk> Kamion: it's not listed in 00list, thankfully
[03:01] <Keybuk> so I think it must be just a "I need a revision control system" patch
[03:02] <crimsun> seb128: ping 
[03:02] <\sh> send jblack to him :) 
[03:05] <Keybuk> right
[03:05] <Keybuk> that's better
[03:05] <seb128> crimsun: pong
[03:05] <Keybuk> I'm gonna pop out and get some lunch shopping, back in 1h30 or so
[03:05] <crimsun> seb128: Hi, do you plan to do the libstdc++ allocator transition for verbiste in Sid anytime soon? If not, I'll go ahead and do it in Dapper/universe, but I don't want to duplicate your efforts.
[03:07] <seb128> crimsun: there is no transition to do, just a rebuild, right?
[03:07] <crimsun> seb128: needs a new lib name, though
[03:07] <seb128> oh, crap
[03:07] <seb128> nothing use it
[03:08] <seb128> it has no rdepends out of verbiste itself
[03:08] <seb128> I'll not change the package name :)
[03:08] <crimsun> hmm, ok.
[03:09] <crimsun> hmm, I wonder what it's doing on http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html
[03:10] <seb128> crimsun: ?
[03:10] <seb128> crimsun: this list is probably autogenerated of stuff that need to be transitionned
[03:10] <seb128> crimsun: I just say since this one has no rdepends that doesn't seem to be useful to rename it
[03:11] <\sh> seb128: do you actually if debian maintainer will do this transition? we will have another difference then from debian...
[03:11] <\sh> insert "know" between actually and if
[03:11] <Kamion> \sh: seb is the Debian maintainer
[03:11] <crimsun> that's why I asked seb ;)
[03:12] <\sh> Kamion: that's why I asked him as well :)
[03:12] <Kamion> Debian has been pretty consistent about renaming even if there are no rdepends, to avoid breaking local users
[03:12] <seb128> you ask me if as a Debian maintainer I'll do it differently from Ubuntu?
[03:12] <Kamion> but I'm not sure I can be bothered having the argument :-)
[03:12] <\sh> seb128: see kamions remark :)
[03:12] <seb128> Kamion: I don't really care either way, just seems to be useless change to me :)
[03:13] <Kamion> I imagine you can expect a Debian bug from one of the release team if you don't, so you could regard it as avoiding that ;)
[03:14] <\sh> seb128: let crimsun do it, he will send your the debdiff..so you don't have any work with it...:)
[03:14] <ogra> he will have the work i debian ...
[03:14] <ogra> *in
[03:15] <seb128> Kamion: I didn't get one for the other transitions :p But right, patches are welcome if a MOTU wants to do the job and send one :)
[03:15] <\sh> ogra: well...crimsun can create a real deb version package as well...and seb128 can sponsor :)
[03:16] <crimsun> seb128: ok. I just wanted to check with you since I didn't know if you had it queued.
[03:16] <seb128> crimsun: no, I'm quite busy with other stuff atm
[03:16] <seb128> crimsun: your patch is welcome :)
[03:17] <crimsun> seb128: ok
[03:23] <Diziet> I wish people would stop uploading stuff.  My mirror is still running (since 2am this morning).
[03:23] <Treenaks> Diziet: get a faster link  :)
[03:23] <Diziet> I did !
[03:24] <Diziet> Just a week or two before Dapper opened.
[03:28] <ogra> Diziet, main will see a "pre flight 2 freeze" soon i guess, so you'll have time to catch up :)
[03:32] <dholbach> a11y meeting, if you're interested, in #ubuntu-meeting
[03:32] <jsgotangco> yay
[03:33] <slomo_> elmo: please sync swt-motif, skippy, most, libofx2 from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped
[04:03] <sivang> pitti: wow, g-c-a takes ages to load, known?
[04:20] <Diziet> Damn, where did I put my python manual printouts ?
[04:22] <Riddell> infinity: could you give back gwenview please
[04:22] <infinity> Riddell : I'll make you a deal.  I'll give it back when you upload a bunch of kde* that doesn't FTBFS. :P
[04:24] <infinity> (given back)
[04:34] <Riddell> infinity: hmm, kdeartwork and kdeutils have their problems but kdeaddons, kdesdk, kdeutils (then when kdesdk is done kdevelop3 and kdewebdev) could all benefit from being given back
[04:38] <infinity> Riddell :   libkipi0-dev: Depends: libkipi0 (= 0.1.2-2ubuntu2) but it is not installable
[04:38] <infinity> Riddell : (gwenview failure)
[04:38] <Nafallo> infinity: hi! do you understand what goes wrong with linuxdcpp?
[04:39] <infinity> Nafallo : <shrug>... Look at the configure script and see how it's testing for pkg-config, dude.  I'm not any more psychic than you. :)
[04:40] <Nafallo> infinity: you're not?! :-O. well, it builds in my pbuilder ;-)
[04:40] <kaushik> hey Can anyone please tell me how to get a shell with admin priviliges in UBUNTU
[04:41] <azeem> kaushik: please ask in #ubuntu
[04:41] <kaushik> Hey dude please help me... just I want a shell
[04:41] <kaushik> and that su is not allowed
[04:41] <Nafallo> sudo -s
[04:42] <Nafallo> and that's a question for #ubuntu, as already said
[04:42] <kaushik> Thanks..
[04:42] <kaushik> Got it and sorry...
[04:42] <kaushik> for asking silly questions
[04:42] <infinity> Nafallo : You realise that if you make me look into this and it turns out to be something trivial, you'll have to send me gifts, right?
[04:42] <HiddenWolf> kaushik, wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
[04:43] <Nafallo> infinity: hehe, hold on. I'm already looking ;-)
[04:43] <sbalneav_> Mithrand1r: Tollef, is that you?
[04:44] <infinity> Nafallo : Oh, crap.  It could be scons.  Anything with scons in the build-deps scares me.
[04:44] <Nafallo> infinity: it is scons :-P
[04:45] <infinity> Nafallo : If it's scons failing, it might be something you can't easily fix, and is best worked around on our end.
[04:45] <Nafallo> oki
[04:46] <Nafallo> oh. it tries to run pkg-config --version and doesn't exit with 0 it seems.
[04:46] <infinity> Oh, it's not scons involved at all at that point?
[04:46] <Nafallo> SConstruct, so yes. it scons :-)
[04:55] <jbailey> dilinger: Is it vegan?
[04:55] <jbailey> And generally not laced with cyanide? =)
[04:55] <dilinger> jbailey: initramfs-tools drops you into a shell if root cannot be mounted.  that is the best thing since sliced Xu.
[04:55] <jbailey> Sliced Xu does *not* make for vegan cookies. =0
[04:55] <infinity> Of course, that fact that everyone's discovering this feature due to all the missing roots recently is NOT such a good thing.
[04:56] <azeem> new features should be easily discoverable
[04:56] <dilinger> infinity: oh, i'm using qemu and hacking on a distribution
[04:56] <dilinger> infinity: i didn't expect this thing to find root
[04:56] <Keybuk> I thought of a way to do it right
[04:56] <Keybuk> ...why are we loading ide-generic for a scsi device?
[04:56] <Keybuk> why not just not load it if the root device name begins with "s" :p
[04:57] <infinity> That's sick.
[04:57] <infinity> But okay!
[04:57] <infinity> It'll fix my bug, screw everyone else!
[04:57] <jbailey> Keybuk: Well,  it's not  like it would be the only place where I employed that logic.
[04:57] <Keybuk> well, I really can't think of a way around it
[04:57] <jbailey> See the md, lvm and evms hooks. =)
[04:57] <Keybuk> the problem is that the scsi subsystem takes ages to wake up
[04:57] <Keybuk> (I know how it feels, some days)
[04:57] <Nafallo> infinity: feel free to work on linuxdcpp. pkg-config is found by my pbuilder :-P.
[04:58] <Keybuk> and if we wait 20s before loading ide-generic, that still might not be enough
[04:58] <infinity> Nafallo : yes, I know what the bug is.  Well, I know what the bug LOOKS like, I don't actually know what it IS.
[04:58] <Nafallo> scons? :-P
[04:59] <infinity> Well.  It's a fight between scons, ccache, and a hideous hack we employ only on the buildds, which is why you can't reproduce it.
[04:59] <Nafallo> must be the hideous hack then. I use ccache in my pbuilders aswell :-)
[05:01] <\sh> 64bit power now
[05:01] <\sh> and never buy a benq dvd dual-layer writer, which reads our shipit cds with fully 48x speed...and stops at e2fsprogs udeb
[05:02] <\sh> I tried now 20 amd64 cd sets..all the same...now I have an old sun blade 1000 24x times cdrom installed...and it workds
[05:02] <\sh> works even
[05:05] <elmo> Kamion: have you had any further thoughts/cunning plans WRT the task fuckage in breezy?
[05:05] <pitti> sivang: yes, I noticed; dunno why
[05:06] <Riddell> infinity: any idea why libkipi0 might not be installable?  installs fine in a fresh dapper chroot for me
[05:07] <elmo> siretart: ?
[05:08] <siretart> elmo: yes?
[05:09] <elmo> siretart: mplayer-skins says artistic license, but nothign in the source package says that, unless I'm missing it?
[05:09] <sivang> dholbach: did you discuss a11y stuff that required addition/modification of the test plans?
[05:09] <Kamion> elmo: not really, unfortunately
[05:10] <Kamion> elmo: I've fixed the base-config issue that made it break, and have pending commits to debian-cd to
[05:10] <siretart> elmo: its inside the tar.bz2 package in the orig.tar.gz
[05:10] <Kamion> o
[05:10] <Amaranth> seb128: What exactly are you trying to say is wrong on http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=323476 ?
[05:10] <Kamion> but I think we may just have to revert and suck down the lack of working kubuntu/edubuntu netboot :-/
[05:10] <Kamion> maybe soyuz can deliberately emulate the breakage if they really want to regenerate the indices
[05:10] <siretart> elmo: I included only a selected number of skins in the package, and most of them do not particulary claim any copyright
[05:10] <elmo> Kamion: ok
[05:10] <elmo> siretart: I extracted those - couldn't find it?
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: I downloaded them from here: http://www.mplayerhq.hu/homepage/design7/dload.html
[05:11] <infinity> Riddell : universe.
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: most of them dont have any claim about any licence, just the author who took them
[05:11] <siretart> elmo: do I really need to ping each contributor or is this fine for multiverse?
[05:12] <Riddell> infinity: aaah.  yes
[05:13] <elmo> siretart: stuff without a license isn't distributable legally
[05:13] <Riddell> Kamion: could you promote libkipi0/libkipi0-dev and libkexif1/libkexif1-dev, renames of c2 libraries
[05:14] <elmo> siretart: so, yes, sorry to be a fascist, but we need a license for these skins
[05:14] <siretart> elmo: I see. will look for other skins (with licence) then
[05:19] <sivang> pitti: I've opene a bug about that, feel free to add your reproduction there and see if it takes the same amount of time for you.
[05:19] <seb128> Amaranth: I'm not sure if gnome-menus should list NoDisplay=true entries ...
[05:19] <siretart> elmo: the problem is, that none of these skin tarballs contain a proper licence statment. is it okay to assume the licence stated on freshmeat is correct?
[05:20] <seb128> Amaranth: the menus should, but gmenu_tree_directory_get_contents ()?
[05:20] <crimsun> Keybuk: I'm getting darned good at running those commands up through ''mountroot'' ;)
[05:20] <seb128> Amaranth: it has the effect that gmenu-simple-editor can't unhide what you mask with alacarte :p
[05:20] <seb128> Amaranth: I guess that you don't have the issue because you use pyxdg and not gnome-menus for it
[05:20] <infinity> Nafallo : Can you mail me a reminder about that package, so I remember to fix the chroots tomorrow and retry it?... I'm too busy right now to fix it up.
[05:20] <elmo> siretart: ugh, if they were added to freshmeat by the upstream skin author/artist, then maybe?
[05:21] <Amaranth> seb128: that's ok, alacarte can't unhie what you mask with gmenu-simple-editor
[05:21] <siretart> elmo: for example: http://themes.freshmeat.net/projects/xfce4_mplayer/
[05:21] <Amaranth> seb128: pyxdg appearently treats <Exclude> as "does not exist"
[05:21] <siretart> claims to be gpl
[05:21] <Kamion> siretart: safest way by far is to e-mail the author and as
[05:21] <Kamion> ask
[05:22] <Nafallo> infinity: oki
[05:22] <siretart> Kamion: will do
[05:22] <Keybuk> crimsun: heh, you mean you haven't got as far as building custom initramfs with them already seeded into the busybox shell's history? :p
[05:23] <seb128> Amaranth: GNOME upstream seems to think that "Exclude" should be the way to work for a menu editor
[05:23] <crimsun> Keybuk :p
[05:23] <Amaranth> seb128: If lanius ever gets his new key uploaded to fd.o I'll see if he can make them show up in getEntries() again
[05:23] <Kamion> Keybuk: if you say you have, I'm scared
[05:24] <seb128> Amaranth: you can roll tarball to an another place you know? :)
[05:24] <Amaranth> seb128: I know he has some code in there to make unhiding stuff also remove any <Exclude> tags
[05:24] <Kamion> Riddell: done libkipi0, libkexif1 requires a cron.sync run first
[05:24] <Amaranth> seb128: I don't even have a computer at home right now.
[05:24] <Amaranth> seb128: And when I do I don't have internet access on linux to work on things.
[05:24] <seb128> Amaranth: speaking for lanius, not you, he's upstream no?
[05:24] <Amaranth> seb128: I haven't actually seen him in awhile...
[05:25] <pitti> Diziet: here?
[05:25] <Amaranth> seb128: Yeah, he is upstream but the design of the code is basically "whatever alacarte needs" so I do some patching. :)
[05:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: then I won't say I have
[05:26] <Diziet> pitti: Hello.
[05:27] <pitti> Diziet: hi! do you know what happened to update-mozilla-firefox-chrome?
[05:27] <Diziet> It's abolished.
[05:27] <Diziet> AFAICT.
[05:27] <pitti> Diziet: I'm currently updating m-f-locale-all to 1.5
[05:27] <pitti> hmm
[05:27] <Diziet> So you should just remove the references to it.
[05:27] <pitti> firefox complains about a chrome error when I just install it
[05:27] <Diziet> Harmf.
[05:27] <Diziet> Maybe the chrome you're installing is wrong ?
[05:28] <pitti> Diziet: no idea, I'll check it now
[05:28] <pitti> chrome installation is a black hole for me...
[05:28] <Diziet> Me too :-/.
[05:28] <seb128_> re
[05:28] <seb128_> Amaranth: BTW you may want to join #ubuntu-desktop for desktopish discussions like that :)
[05:28] <Diziet> It may be that there's some other thing that needs doing instead of umfc.
[05:29] <Diziet> But I haven't seen any sign of it.
[05:29] <Kamion> check one of the extension packages like mozilla-tabextensions that has been updated to cope with 1.5
[05:29] <pitti> Diziet: ok, thank you
[05:29] <Kamion> I need to do that for my own extension package
[05:30] <pitti> ah, good idea
[05:30] <Diziet> Kamion: You have a ff extension package ?
[05:31] <pitti> hm, no, m-tabextensions doesn't seem to be
[05:31] <Kamion> Diziet: mozilla-nukeimage
[05:31] <Diziet> Ah :-).
[05:31] <Kamion> provides a context menu option to set CSS display: none on any image in a page; good for blinking advertisements
[05:32] <Treenaks> adblock + filterset.g work on those too :)
[05:32] <HiddenWolf> adblock is the bomb. :)
[05:32] <pitti> with 1.0.x I used adblock, but it doesn't work for 1.5
[05:33] <wasabi_> Hmm.
[05:34] <wasabi_> Did smp support move out of -smp?
[05:34] <wasabi_> Looks like it.
[05:34] <Kamion> wasabi_: for i386, yes
[05:34] <wasabi_> k.
[05:37] <wasabi_> Could ubuntu-desktop depend on xchat | xchat-gnome?
[05:41] <greenpenguin13> the right-click 'Copy Disk...' option for audio cds appears to require cdrdao, should this be as a dependency for something?
[05:42] <slomo_> elmo: is my key already in the main keyring?
[05:42] <greenpenguin13> 
[05:43] <elmo> slomo_: I think I replied and said that?
[05:43] <Kamion> wasabi_: ubuntu-desktop probably won't ever get |-ed dependencies (in the near future) because of the way it's built, although I'd be happy for it to depend on something that in turn depends on xchat | xchat-gnome. We do that for totem.
[05:43] <wasabi_> (ot:) You know synaptic is getting rad when you find yourself using it because it's faster than apt-cache
[05:44] <HiddenWolf> wasabi, how the heck is that possible? :)
[05:44] <ogra> wasabi_, nvo will be pleased to hear that :)
[05:44] <wasabi_> HiddenWolf: opening a terminal and typing, then scrolling up to read it.
[05:44] <jbailey> wasabi_: Nice, I'll have to try synaptic again.
[05:44] <wasabi_> synaptic can now download changelogs too
[05:44] <slomo_> elmo: no... or the mail disappeared ;) anyway... thanks :) did you get my sync requests earlier today? and what will we do about gnunet-gtk? you didn't want to sync it from debian last time
[05:44] <HiddenWolf> wasabi, grep it. :)
[05:44] <elmo> Kamion: mdz/seb were talking about switching to xchat-gnome anyway
[05:45] <Kamion> elmo: fine by me, I don't use either ;)
[05:45] <wasabi_> Can lock packages to specific versions. Can install specific versions.
[05:45] <jbailey> wasabi_: I know I started liking Nautilus alot more when it became faster to use it for scp'ing than command line.
[05:45] <wasabi_> xchat-gnome isn't in main, which could be one of the problems.
[05:45] <Kamion> wasabi_: that's kind of trivial to fix if mdz decides he wants it in main ;-)
[05:45] <wasabi_> Yeah heh
[05:45] <Kamion> i.e. it's a symptom not a problem
[05:46] <wasabi_> No, I agree. It's just nobody has bothered moving it to main now, and it's a bit inconvient to have to uninstall u-d to use it.
[05:46] <seb128_> I'm supposed to make a main promotion for xchat-gnome
[05:46] <seb128_> mdz asked me to do it yesterday
[05:46] <wasabi_> Ahh.
[05:46] <wasabi_> Problem solved. ;)
[05:46] <seb128_> I just need to do the wiki page for it
[05:47] <Amaranth> seb128_: Does xchat-gnome have the option to go back to buttons instead of a treeview?
[05:47] <wasabi_> I wish it would just use normal tabs.
[05:47] <lamont> pitti: ping
[05:47] <wasabi_> somehow.
[05:47] <greenpenguin13> the right-click 'Copy Disk...' option for audio cds appears to require cdrdao, should this be as a dependency for something?
[05:48] <seb128_> Amaranth: I've not tried, I've switched to xchat-gnome because of the treeview to start
[05:48] <seb128_> buttons were not fitting on my screen
[05:48] <pitti> Hi lamont
[05:48] <seb128_> and I was not noticing the queries stuff
[05:48] <Amaranth> seb128_: Yeah, joining #ubuntu-desktop just screwed me up there, I had to exit a channel to make it fit.
[05:49] <Amaranth> it's just hard to get used to
[05:49] <seb128_> greenpenguin13: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MainInclusionReportCdrdao
[05:49] <seb128_> greenpenguin13: https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=13168
[05:49] <seb128_> Amaranth: was easy for me, and xchat-gnome is cool
[05:50] <slomo_> infinity: hi... any ideas why mod-mono isn't tried to build on ppc/ia64?
[05:50] <seb128_> it sets autoaway according to what gnome-screensaver is doing
[05:50] <Amaranth> neat
[05:50] <seb128_> can use libnotify for notification
[05:51] <Amaranth> brb
[05:51] <Amaranth> that's better, i turned server tabs back on so the treeview makes sense
[05:53] <seb128_> mvo: what's wrong with it?
[05:53] <mvo> seb128: don't take me too serious :) it's all so "bright", so much white compared to the original xchat
[05:54] <wasabi_> I like the preferences dialog, the treeview i am mostly indifferent to.
[05:54] <wasabi_> Oh, and the "mission statement".
[05:56] <seb128> pitti: why?
[05:56] <pitti> dunno any more, something was ugly about it that I couldn't change
[05:56] <wasabi_> I guess having the user list and treeview in the same place kinda doesn't work. Never enough vertical space.
[05:57] <jbailey> If it's the one I'm thinking of, I couldn't get the white background to go away.
[05:57] <seb128> jbailey: for the text area or the user list?
[05:57] <jbailey> seb128: Text area.
[05:57] <seb128> jbailey: my text area if grey on black atm
[05:57] <seb128> s/if/is/
[05:57] <jbailey> wasabi: It's fine until I hit a nick highlight or something that makes me read yellow on white.
[06:01] <pitti_xg> seb128: ah, now I know again
[06:02] <pitti_xg> seb128: xchat-gnome does not allow me to split off channels to a separate window
[06:02] <pitti_xg> seb128: which means that I cannot follow two channels at once
[06:03] <seb128> ah, /me files a bug upstream for you
[06:04] <ogra> hmm, not being able to type while the preferences are open is lso a bit odd
[06:04] <wasabi_> Ahh. I see. No seperate windows.
[06:05] <pitti> and that sucks
[06:05] <wasabi_> I kind of wish this used the same UI metaphore Gaim did.
[06:05] <ogra> and is there a way to not have the channellist on the left ? 
[06:05] <wasabi_> Tabs.
[06:05] <wasabi_> And you can just drag them away.
[06:05] <seb128> pitti: that's on valid usecase I guess :)
[06:05] <pitti> seb128: xchat sucks wrt session support; I always have to rearrange detached channel windows after login
[06:07] <wasabi_> guess if gaim's IRC didn't suck I'd probably use it.
[06:07] <Amaranth> tabs have the same problem the button list did
[06:07] <seb128> I hate gaim
[06:07] <Amaranth> too many channels open == screwed
[06:08] <ogra> seb128: is there any way to rearrange the layout ...?
[06:08] <seb128> like?
[06:08] <seb128> what layout?
[06:08] <seb128> or, chans order? no
[06:09] <ogra> having channels and userlist on the right, i dont like it on the left side
[06:09] <Amaranth> i dunno how xchat-gnome does it but this windows xchat version would rock if i could have the user list under the window list
[06:09] <Amaranth> i only user the user list to see if someone is around, so scrolling doesn't matter
[06:09] <Amaranth> err, use the user
[06:10] <ogra> same here ... i find a bright white window on the left very distracting
[06:10] <seb128> I don't care about the user list
[06:10] <ogra> but i'd b fine if i could just flip the list and the chatwin
[06:10] <pitti> Kamion: hmm, the only change tabextensions did for 'install.rdf: Allow tabextensions to work with firefox 1.5.' was to update 'maxVersion' to 1.5 in install.rdf...
[06:11] <Amaranth> if i were to install breezy and upgrade to dapper right this minute would it work?
[06:12] <Kamion> pitti: hm, wonder how it works then since Debian doesn't seen to have u-m-f-c now either
[06:12] <seb128> Amaranth: fear udev :)
[06:12] <Kamion> Amaranth: you're not going to get any better answer than "maybe".
[06:12] <Kamion> and see the topic ...
[06:12] <Amaranth> seb128: You're saying to lock my current kernel, hotplug, and udev versions at breezy? :)
[06:13] <Kamion> no don't do that ...
[06:13] <seb128> no
[06:13] <wasabi_> it is also annoying that xchat-gnome doesn't seem to use the gnome URL handler.
[06:13] <pitti> Kamion: m-t works fine with my ffox here, and so does manually installnig a language xpi
[06:13] <wasabi_> It always opens firefox for me.
[06:13] <Kamion> if you're going to upgrade, upgrade - mixing will just confuse things even harder
[06:13] <seb128> but I run 2 udev versions ago atm
[06:13] <seb128> because xorg doesn't start with the current one
[06:13] <seb128> it chocks on the mouse
[06:13] <Amaranth> ok, i think i'll stick with breezy
[06:13] <Amaranth> i need to get some work done, not unbreak things :)
[06:14] <ogra> seb128: just put your mouse driver n /etc/modules ;)
[06:14] <seb128> I've psmouse loaded
[06:14] <seb128> and listed by /etc/modules too
[06:14] <ogra> oh
[06:14] <Keybuk> huh?
[06:14] <Keybuk> there's no known "my mouse doesn't work" bug with udev
[06:15] <Keybuk> there's just the 2.6.15 bugs in general
[06:15] <ogra> works fine here as well
[06:15] <seb128> Keybuk: maybe not udev bugs, but it works with udev 076-0ubuntu4
[06:15] <seb128> and not with 076-0ubuntu5
[06:16] <Keybuk> and you didn't tell me about this yet, why?
[06:16] <seb128> I told it this morning, you were not around and infinity said "<infinity>     Oh, you're another "no mouse" guy.  Neat.  I wonder why my mouse works...
[06:16] <seb128> "
[06:17] <seb128> so I assumed it was a well known stuff
[06:17] <Keybuk> heh
[06:17] <Amaranth> latest OSNews post: "What is it About Ubuntu?"
[06:17] <Keybuk> nope, I didn't know about it anyway
[06:17] <Keybuk> what kind of mouse is it?
[06:17] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth, they run one of those every week. ;)
[06:18] <seb128> Keybuk: standard logitech on ps2
[06:18] <seb128>         Option          "Device"                "/dev/input/mice"
[06:18] <seb128>         Option          "Protocol"              "ImPS/2"
[06:18] <seb128>         Option          "Emulate3Buttons"       "true"
[06:18] <seb128>         Option          "ZAxisMapping"          "4 5"
[06:18] <Keybuk> isn't psmouse in /etc/modules?
[06:18] <seb128> it is
[06:18] <infinity> Keybuk / seb128 : Fascinating, the other "no mouse guy" was a USB mouse user.
[06:18] <infinity> (And my USB mouse works fine, as does my PS/2 mouse)
[06:18] <Keybuk> and you're saying you don't get a /dev/input/mice ?
[06:18] <seb128> correct
[06:18] <Keybuk> kooky
[06:19] <seb128> and I do with udev 0.76-0ubuntu4
[06:19] <seb128> I can upgrade/reboot if you have extra questions :)
[06:19] <Keybuk> not right now, but I'll deal with you later <g>
[06:19] <Keybuk> oh, just to check
[06:19] <Keybuk> grep psmouse /etc/modprobe.d/isapnp
[06:20] <seb128> $ grep psmouse /etc/modprobe.d/isapnp
[06:20] <seb128> alias pnp:dPNP0f13 psmouse
[06:20] <Keybuk> grep PNP0f13 /sys/bus/pnp/devices/*/id
[06:20] <seb128> $ grep PNP0f13 /sys/bus/pnp/devices/*/id
[06:20] <seb128>  /sys/bus/pnp/devices/00:0a/id:PNP0f13
[06:20] <ogra> probably it just doesnt speak french :)
[06:20] <pitti> erm, you guys to that check with the udev that works, right?
[06:21] <seb128> pitti: correct
[06:21] <Keybuk> /lib/udev/pnp_modules /bus/pnp/devices/00:0a
[06:21] <seb128> $ /lib/udev/pnp_modules /bus/pnp/devices/00:0a
[06:21] <seb128> pnp:dPNP0f13*
[06:21] <Keybuk> freaky
[06:21] <seb128> what?
[06:21] <Keybuk> in theory, that version of udev SHOULD NOT work
[06:22] <seb128> lol
[06:22] <seb128> why?
[06:22] <Amaranth> pnp:dPNP0f13* != id:PNP0f13
[06:23] <Keybuk> cat /sys/bus/pnp/devices/00:0a/id
[06:24] <seb128> PNP0f13
[06:24] <Kamion> slomo_: normal versioning for a branch of -0pre2 would be -0pre2ubuntu1, by the way
[06:25] <wasabi_> So here's an interesting question. When storing per-device information, what should it be indexed by?
[06:25] <wasabi_> the udev id?
[06:25] <wasabi_> Example being network manager, whcih needs to remember interfaces.
[06:26] <slomo_> Kamion: ok, will do the next time
[06:26] <Kamion> slomo_: (it's relevant in case the Debian package's postinst does an 'if dpkg --compare-versions "$2" lt 1.1.10-0pre3' check, in which case you now have a complicated upgrade problem)
[06:27] <Keybuk> seb128: just that line?
[06:27] <seb128> Keybuk: yep
[06:27] <Keybuk> right
[06:27] <Keybuk> and if you now do this, what happens
[06:27] <Keybuk> modprobe --first-time -n -ba pnp:dPNP0f13
[06:27] <slomo_> Kamion: yes, i didn't thought about this... sorry. i'll take care of it when merging it from debian in the future
[06:28] <seb128> Keybuk: "WARNING: Module psmouse already in kernel."
[06:28] <Keybuk> *blink*
[06:28] <Keybuk> ok
[06:28] <Keybuk> and there's nothing in /dev/input/mice ?
[06:28] <Keybuk> uh, nothing in /dev/input ?
[06:28] <seb128> I've /dev/input/mouse0 with this version of udev, you said to not reboot yet
[06:28] <Kamion> slomo_: thanks
[06:29] <Keybuk> but not mice?
[06:29] <seb128> $ ls /dev/input/
[06:29] <seb128> event0  event1  event2  js0  mice  mouse0  ts0
[06:29] <seb128> mice too
[06:29] <Keybuk> oh, right
[06:29] <Keybuk> is mousedev in /etc/modules ?
[06:29] <seb128> $ grep mouse /etc/modules
[06:29] <seb128> psmouse
[06:29] <seb128> 
[06:29] <seb128> that's all
[06:30] <Keybuk> oh, well, somebody's been breaking your /etc/modules file then
[06:30] <ryanpg> pitti, hi and ping
[06:30] <Keybuk> we've always put mousedev in there by hand
[06:30] <seb128> "by hand"?
[06:30] <mjg59> Keybuk: Always?
[06:30] <Kamion> always> since 3 September 2004 anyway
[06:30] <pitti> ryanpg: hi
[06:30] <highvoltage> pedocide?
[06:30] <Kamion> so an early pre-warty install wouldn't have had it
[06:30] <Keybuk> seb128: it's put in there by the installer
[06:31] <ryanpg> pitti, I recently filed a bug against udev but it looks like it's been handed off to you... just wondered if you wanted/needed any testing or info :)
[06:31] <mjg59> Keybuk: Any reason load hid doesn't pull in mousedev as well?
[06:31] <seb128> Keybuk: right, maybe I've used my Debian /etc when installing this Ubuntu like 1 year ago
[06:31] <pitti> ryanpg: which one?
[06:31] <Keybuk> mjg59: I don't know
[06:31] <ryanpg> pitti, #20564
[06:31] <seb128> Keybuk: so I just put mousedev to modules to fix it?
[06:31] <ryanpg> "udev 076-0ubuntu5 + gvm 1.5.3-0ubuntu2 = no auto mounting"
[06:32] <Keybuk> (though it might need to be pedicide, my latin's a little rusty)
[06:33] <Keybuk> mjg59: hmm... I note that mousedev isn't showing up in modules.inputmap *again*
[06:33] <pitti> ryanpg: ah, I didn't look at that one yet (you know, I'm not officially here today :) )
[06:33] <pitti> ryanpg: in any case, doing the steps on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices would help me
[06:33] <pitti> ryanpg: also, does 'pmount /dev/sda1' work?
[06:33] <ryanpg> pitti, heh ok well of course I'm happy to oblige... 
[06:34] <ryanpg> lemme check
[06:34] <ryanpg> pitti, yes pmount does work
[06:34] <ogra> seb128: id anything change that could affect nautilus' sftp handling ? i cant open my rookery folder anymore ... it worked yesterday 
[06:34] <ogra> s/id/did
[06:34] <pitti> ryanpg: ok, great, then it's breakage at the higher gnome level
[06:34] <pitti> ryanpg: the g-v-m and lshal output should help me
[06:35] <ryanpg> pitti, ok I'll do http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingRemovableDevices and add to the bug
[06:35] <pitti> ryanpg: thanks
[06:35] <ryanpg> err.. bug report :P
[06:35] <ryanpg> np thanks to you
[06:35] <ogra> seb128: nevermind, its a DNS prob
[06:36] <Keybuk> uh, in fact, I note that the mousedev module has disappeared entirely
[06:36] <Keybuk> BENC!
[06:37] <Keybuk> seb128: try upgrading to 2.6.15-7 and udev 077-0ubuntu2 and see what happens then
[06:37] <Keybuk> make sure you have latest module-init-tools too
[06:37] <seb128> Keybuk: will do, thanks
[06:38] <infinity> Keybuk : I think there are problems other than mousedev... One user complained earlier today that his USB mouse didn't work (same symptoms, no /dev/input/mice)
[06:38] <Keybuk> yeah, there was a kernel bug where usbmouse and psmouse would fight
[06:38] <Keybuk> maybe that's got fixed by compiling them both in
[06:38] <infinity> "was"?
[06:38] <infinity> He claimed it only started on the latest kernel/udev bump.
[06:38] <infinity> (started failing)
[06:38] <Keybuk> I used to get it in the early 2.6.15 kernels
[06:39] <Keybuk> you had to rmmod psmouse and modprobe it again
[06:39] <Keybuk> though I still get the "synaptics doesn't act like one" bug
[06:39] <infinity> Meh.  I guess it'll all shake out.
[06:39] <infinity> Colour me glad we're not releasing in a month.
[06:39] <Amaranth> i know, i'll install breezy in this vmware drive, make a copy, then upgrade one copy to dapper
[06:41] <ryanpg> pitti, ok files attached... however to my eye everything looks just fine, I really hope this isn't "operator error" somehow
[06:42] <infinity> Yes ma'am.
[06:42] <BenC> Keybuk: !!
[06:42] <Keybuk> BenC: what did you do to mousedev?
[06:42] <pitti> ryanpg: hah, easy one
[06:43] <pitti> ryanpg: brw-rw---- 1 root disk 8, 18 2005-12-07 11:36 /dev/sdb2
[06:43] <pitti> ryanpg: the device should have group 'plugdev'
[06:43] <Keybuk> what does that?
[06:43] <ryanpg> pitti, ah
[06:43] <pitti> Keybuk: well, an udev rule
[06:43] <BenC> seems it is built-in
[06:43] <Keybuk> there isn't a udev rule to do that <g>
[06:43] <pitti> hm, there was
[06:43] <pitti> with the device-removable script test
[06:44] <Keybuk> what script is that? :p
[06:44] <pitti> /etc/udev/scripts/removable.sh in breezy
[06:44] <Keybuk> cute, I appear to have dropped all that on the floor
[06:44] <pitti> BUS=="scsi", KERNEL=="sd[a-z] *", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/removable.sh %k 'usb ieee1394'", RESULT="1", MODE="0640", GROUP="plugdev"
[06:44] <Keybuk> you know, that script is total crack?
[06:45] <pitti> BUS=="usb", KERNEL=="ub[a-z] *", NAME="%k", MODE="0640", GROUP="plugdev"
[06:45] <pitti> Keybuk: I know, if you have something better, I'd be glad to use it :)
[06:45] <Keybuk> BUS=="usb", SYSFS{removable}=="1", GROUP="plugdev" would suffice
[06:45] <BenC> Keybuk: somehow on a config update I did on 12/05, it went from modular to built-in
[06:45] <BenC> Keybuk: does it need to be modular?
[06:45] <Keybuk> BenC: ah, right, it wasn't deliberate then
[06:45] <Keybuk> *shrug*
[06:45] <Keybuk> we always load it
[06:45] <ryanpg> oh... somehow my /etc/udev/ is filled with *.pkg-new that a problem?
[06:45] <Keybuk> leave it compiled in <g>
[06:46] <Keybuk> ryanpg: dpkg --configure -a
[06:46] <ryanpg> k
[06:46] <pitti> Keybuk: ok, and another rule for ieee1394?
[06:46] <BenC> Keybuk: ok :)
[06:46] <Keybuk> pitti: at least, if I'm reading the intent of this script correctly
[06:46] <pitti> Keybuk: and another one for the removable attribute
[06:46] <Keybuk> cute
[06:46] <Keybuk> I put removable devices in the "floppy" group
[06:46] <pitti> Keybuk: BUS=="ide", KERNEL=="hd[a-z] *", PROGRAM="/etc/udev/scripts/removable.sh %k", RESULT=="1", \
[06:46] <pitti>   MODE="0640", GROUP="plugdev"
[06:47] <pitti> Keybuk: that was for internal flash card readers, and the like
[06:47] <pitti> Keybuk: if that script would be turned into a couple of udev rules, so much the better
[06:47] <Keybuk> so why does pmount/gvm work for me?
[06:47] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, floppy works as well; hal can do floppy, cdrom, and plugdev
[06:48] <ogra> Keybuk:Thin Clients are improving btw :)  http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051205-1.png and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051208-1.png
[06:48] <Keybuk> ah
[06:48] <Keybuk> I bet I broke it yesterday when I fixed the scsi device groups
[06:48] <ryanpg> Keybuk, pitti floppy works for me (after a few minutes of waiting)
[06:48] <pitti> Keybuk: I still have the old udev, I didn't reboot since today's distupgrade
[06:49] <Keybuk> so, should that be
[06:49] <Keybuk> either on a usb/ieee1394 bus OR removable
[06:49] <pitti> Keybuk: right, my devices are in floppy ATM, that's why it works
[06:49] <Keybuk> or should it be on a usb bus and removable?
[06:49] <pitti> Keybuk: no, or is fine
[06:49] <Keybuk> right ...
[06:49] <pitti> Keybuk: hotpluggable or removable
[06:49] <Keybuk> SUBSYSTEM=="block", BUS=="usb", GROUP="plugdev"
[06:49] <Keybuk> SUBSYSTEM=="block", BUS=="ieee1394", GROUP="plugdev"
[06:50] <pitti> Keybuk: removable is the kernel sysfs attribute
[06:50] <pitti> and hotpluggable is usb/firewire
[06:50] <Keybuk> SUBSYSTEM=="block", SYSFS{removable}=="1", GROUP="plugdev"
[06:50] <Keybuk> like that?
[06:50] <seb128> Keybuk: if mousedev is builtin with the current linux should I still wait for an update to get my mouse issue fixed? :)
[06:50] <BenC> Keybuk: actually, the kernel forces it to "y" now if we aren't doing an embedded system
[06:50] <pitti> Keybuk: looks good enough; although the last one could be cdrom
[06:50] <Keybuk> BenC: oh, good
[06:50] <pitti> Keybuk: well, the only removable devices I know are CD-ROMs
[06:50] <Keybuk> pitti: it should?
[06:50] <pitti> hm, card readers maybe
[06:50] <Keybuk> what about floppies?
[06:51] <BenC> USB floppies are all around
[06:51] <pitti> Keybuk: right
[06:51] <ryanpg> dpkg --configure -a but the .pkg-new files remain, I'm guessing I should take this to #ubuntu for help?
[06:52] <Keybuk> ok ...
[06:52] <Keybuk> so does this make sense
[06:53] <Keybuk> (given that a later matching rule overrides an earlier one)
[06:53] <Keybuk> default all non-removable block devices to disk
[06:53] <Keybuk> default all removable block devices to floppy
[06:53] <Keybuk> anything on a usb bus (walking upwards) goes into plugdev
[06:53] <Keybuk> anything on a ieee1394 bus (walking upwards) goes into plugdev
[06:53] <Keybuk> ide cdroms go into cdrom
[06:53] <Keybuk> ide tapes go into tape
[06:53] <pitti> sounds good
[06:53] <Keybuk> scsi tapes and cdroms go into tape/cdrom
[06:54] <pitti> Keybuk: if udev rules can walk upwards the bus, that's great
[06:54] <pitti> Keybuk: but at least in hoary, usb drives were bus SCSI, that's why I had to invent this script in the first place
[06:56] <pitti> (in breezy as well)
[06:58] <Kamion> ogra: 20051208? is your machine in the future?
[06:58] <pitti> infinity: yay, the ffox locales finally work
[06:58] <Keybuk> pitti: udev has always walked up the bus
[06:59] <Keybuk> pitti: if BUS== fails to match, it looks up at the parent device, and so-on
[06:59] <Keybuk> pitti: what about permissions
[06:59] <pitti> ah, cool
[06:59] <pitti> didn't know that
[06:59] <Keybuk> should they all be 0640, except for cd-roms which need to be 0660 (I assume for eject to work?)
[06:59] <Kamion> elmo: any idea why user-setup-udeb is in both the deb and udeb overrides?
[06:59] <ogra> Kamion: yes, no time sync at all anymore for thin clients ;)
[06:59] <pitti> Keybuk: plugdev has always been 0640, that should be kept
[06:59] <Kamion> elmo: (I noticed when jessica started complaining about its priority, which it isn't meant to do for udebs)
[06:59] <Keybuk> right
[06:59] <elmo> Kamion: someone probably did the new_universe trick badly
[07:00] <pitti> Keybuk: hmm, dunno about floppies, I don't have one
[07:00] <Kamion> don't *think* it was me ...
[07:00] <elmo> Kamion: fixed
[07:00] <pitti> Keybuk: when it's 660, users could format them without being root
[07:00] <Kamion> can't've been, I knew it was headed for main so I'd have shoved it straight in :)
[07:00] <infinity> pitti : \o/ ... Thanks, dude.  You're a champion.
[07:00] <Kamion> elmo: thanks
[07:01] <Kamion> pitti: locales> hooray
[07:01] <Keybuk> infinity: B.ED.
[07:01] <Kamion> Keybuk: I think it's a bit late for him to be retraining as a teacher now
[07:01] <pitti> infinity: uploading now, but it requires some NEW love
[07:01] <Keybuk> elmo: WHY IS HOTPLUG STILL IN THE ARCHIVE?
[07:02] <elmo> keybuk: BECAUSE STUFF IN MAIN STILL DEPENDS ON IT!
[07:02] <Keybuk> elmo: kick that stuff out of main then <g>
[07:03] <doko> Keybuk: fix the packages ;-P
[07:03] <pitti> infinity: hehe - RTL in Hebrew looks interesting :)
[07:03] <Keybuk> doko: it's just one of them, and it looks complicated and scary
[07:04] <infinity> pitti : Yeah, I played with it and it broke my brain.
[07:04] <tepsipakki> BenC: thanks for fixing #17547 ;)
[07:04] <BenC> tepsipakki: np
[07:05] <Kamion> Keybuk: p.s. grepmap still Enhances: hotplug
[07:05] <Keybuk> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/germinate-output/dapper/rdepends/hotplug/hotplug
[07:05] <pitti> infinity: s.leep well
[07:05] <Keybuk> does it?  oops :p
[07:05] <Keybuk> thank god nothing uses Enhances then
[07:05] <Kamion> there are still a lot of Recommends and Suggests lying around too
[07:05] <Kamion> d-i uses Enhances actually :)
[07:05] <Kamion> my packaging system is more advanced than yours, nee-ner-ner-ner-ner
[07:05] <Keybuk> I guess it's still true actually, grepmap *does* enhance hotplug
[07:06] <Keybuk> Kamion: bite me
[07:06] <Keybuk> http://psp.weebls-stuff.com/mp3/happy_badgers.mp3
[07:06] <Keybuk> ^ thom sends his love
[07:11] <elmo> ok, so seriously, hot plug is held in by multiseat
[07:11] <elmo> what do you want  me to do?  remove it and break it, demote multiseat, none of the above?
[07:11] <siretart> elmo: ok. now I reuploaded mplayer-skins, both tarballs state it was gpl
[07:11] <Keybuk> it's an interesting question
[07:11] <Keybuk> because there's no way you can install hotplug anyway
[07:11] <Keybuk> which makes multiseat uninstallable
[07:12] <FireRabbit> is it possible to send mail to everyone that is somehow related (assignee, subscribed,, etc.) to a specific launchpad specification to kick of discussion about it?
[07:13] <Keybuk> actually, interestingly, it's installable in a bad way
[07:13] <Keybuk> installing it would cause udev to be removed, which is what used to make hotplug work, so the installed package wouldn't work
[07:13] <Keybuk> I guess multiseat needs rewriting, but nobody seems to know much about it anymore
[07:14] <Keybuk> it's broken now, so removing hotplug wouldn't change that
[07:14] <mpt> FireRabbit, not yet
[07:14] <FireRabbit> mpt, alright.... so are people just using ubuntu-devel now?
[07:15] <mpt> FireRabbit, or ubuntu-desktop@ as appropriate (which unfortunately I didn't know until today:-)
[07:15] <FireRabbit> ah alright... this would be a very useful launchpad feature...
[07:20] <Kamion> whoa, the gfxboot config language is a bit scary
[07:20] <Kamion> so I'm reading through the documentation and it's all starting out with simple stuff like code definitions and arithmetic operators
[07:20] <Kamion> then it hits me with:
[07:20] <Kamion>    blend  - blend image with alpha channel
[07:20] <elmo> kamion/keybuk: ok, done.  multiseat demoted, hotplug removed
[07:20] <Kamion> elmo: great, thanks
[07:21] <Keybuk> thanks
[07:23] <\sh> gentlemen...I want to create an pbuilder env on amd64 for i386...pbuilder --binary-arch 386 create will do this for me?
[07:23] <elmo> linux32 it
[07:23] <elmo> as well, and then it should.  it does with debootstrap; I don't do pbuilder
[07:24] <Kamion> and --binary-arch i386
[07:25] <mjg59> Kamion: You pasted a blank line
[07:25] <\sh> elmo: linux32 it means? 
[07:26] <elmo> sh: apt-get install linux32, then 'linux32 <blah blah pbuilder stuff>'
[07:26] <\sh> elmo: ah thx :)
[07:28] <Kamion> mjg59: I did?
[07:29] <mjg59> 18:20 < Kamion> then it hits me with:
[07:29] <mjg59> 18:20 < Kamion>
[07:29] <mjg59> And that was it
[07:29] <Kamion> mjg59: your UTF-8 is weak old man
[07:29] <Kamion>   <bullet> blend  - blend image with alpha channel
[07:29] <mjg59> Oh, right. So screen is fucked.
[07:29] <Kamion> well, U+25CF BLACK CIRCLE anyway
[07:32] <seb128> pitti: http://blogs.gnome.org/view/alexl/2005/12/07/0 ....  we need beagle on the desktop :p 
[07:32] <FireRabbit> hmm mpt - is it possible to just post a comment to a launchpad specification?
[07:33] <Kamion> FireRabbit: edit the referenced wiki page and put a comment in a separate section near the end
[07:33] <FireRabbit> what if it doesn't have any URL associated?
[07:33] <Kamion> if there isn't a Comments section, create one
[07:33] <Kamion> then there has been no work done on that specification and it's basically just a stub
[07:34] <FireRabbit> it seems like it might be nice to have the ability to post comments directly to launchpad
[07:35] <mpt> FireRabbit, no
[07:35] <FireRabbit> heh, no? :)
[07:35] <Kamion> better to start off the necessary wiki page with a comment if so, I'd've thought
[07:36] <Kamion> launchpad is much better at collating and referencing content than it is at actually storing it itself
[07:37] <FireRabbit> alright, I guess I still don't completly understand it's overall goal yet
[07:37] <Kamion> to be a database of everything it can lay its hands on in the free software world, approximately
[07:39] <Burgwork> FireRabbit, after toilet cleanup is the next module planned
[07:39] <FireRabbit> 'after toilet cleanup'?
[07:39] <Burgwork> wipe your ass, in the vernacular
[07:40] <FireRabbit> I, uh, can't tell if you are trying to tell a joke or what.
[07:41] <Burgwork> yes, I am joking, but what Kamion said is basically correct. Mark wants LP to be the centre of the free software universe
[07:42] <FireRabbit> right, ok.
[07:43] <Riddell> Kamion: could you move the renamed kdepim packages to main?
[07:43] <Riddell> kdepim-kresources libkcal2b libkdepim1-dev libkdepim1a libkgantt0 libkgantt0-dev libkleopatra1 libkleopatra1-dev libkmime2 libkpimexchange1-dev libksieve0-dev libmimelib1-dev libmimelib1c2
[07:44] <ogra> FireRabbit: imagine it as a next generation sourceforge that also cooks your coffe and cares for your kids if you have no time :)
[07:44] <mvo> *gar* sf *gar*
[07:44] <ogra> yeah, its a lot more indeed :)
[07:44] <FireRabbit> ah but sourceforge provides forums etc for user collaboration on issues
[07:44] <Diziet> So in Python, if I have a list, and want to pass it to exec and capture the stdout in a Python variable (and bomb if the program exits nonzero), how do I do this ?
[07:45] <mvo> Diziet: look at the subprocess module
[07:45] <mvo> Diziet: http://docs.python.org/lib/node241.html
[07:45] <Diziet> Ah, new in 2.4.
[07:45] <mvo> and very nice indeed
[07:46] <Kamion> Riddell: when you ask me this kind of question it would be useful if you could indicate whether they're already listed in anastacia output: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mdz/anastacia.txt
[07:46] <Diziet> Urgh, I still have to faff about with a pipe.
[07:47] <Kamion> then I'll know how much work it's going to be
[07:47] <mvo> Diziet: "faff about" == "mess around" ?
[07:48] <FireRabbit> what i am getting at is that if i come across a specification that looks interesting, it would be nice to have a mailing list (or something similar) dedicated to that specification so I could see what has already been done and discuss with the other developers working on it how I can help, etc.... just ignore me, i am thinking outloud again.
[07:48] <Diziet> mvo: Yes.
[07:49] <Riddell> Kamion: ok (they are)
[07:49] <mvo> Diziet: how big is the data you expect (in the kb range or rather in the mb range)?
[07:49] <Kamion> FireRabbit: in general a list for each spec would be overkill, and I'd encourage you just to mail ubuntu-devel@ about /distros/ubuntu/ specifications
[07:49] <Diziet> Bytes.
[07:49] <Kamion> Riddell: done
[07:50] <Riddell> thanks Kamion 
[07:50] <Diziet> Maybe 100 ?  200 ?  In this case it's a pathname.
[07:50] <FireRabbit> yeah, ok.
[07:52] <mvo> Diziet: (out,err) = Popen(["ls", "-R"] , stdout=PIPE).communicate()
[07:52] <mvo>  will just do the right thing
[07:52] <mvo> Diziet: out,err is the output of the command as strs
[07:52] <Diziet> Yes, I just found communicate in the FM.
[07:53] <Diziet> Thanks.
[07:53] <mvo> cheers
[07:54] <Riddell> ogra: dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/xscreensaver_4.23-2ubuntu1_i386.deb (--unpack):
[07:54] <Riddell>  trying to overwrite `/usr/share/xscreensaver/config/README', which is also in package xscreensaver-data
[07:54] <Riddell> known?
[07:55] <ogra> hmm, nope
[07:55] <ogra> from which version do you upgrade ? 
[07:55] <ogra> the split already happened in breezy ...
[07:57] <Riddell> upgrading from 4.21-4ubuntu17
[07:58] <ogra> hmm
[07:58] <ogra> oh, actually... right ...
[07:58] <ogra> fixing
[08:14] <fabbione> elmo: thanks for NEW'ing the sparc kernel. I was really waiting for it :)
[08:22] <Riddell> ogra: something happened to ant xscreensaver?
[08:23] <ogra> nope
[08:23] <ogra> its still in xscreensaver-gl 
[08:25] <ogra> /usr/lib/xscreensaver/antinspect and /usr/lib/xscreensaver/antspotlight
[08:26] <Riddell> but no "ant"
[08:26] <ogra> was there a separate "ant" ?
[08:27] <Riddell> kdeartwork expects one
[08:27] <Riddell> no problem if it's not there, I'm just wondering what to put in the changelog
[08:27] <ogra> hmm, actually there is an ant.c in the code ...
[08:28] <ogra> can this wait some days or is iturgent ? 
[08:28] <Keybuk> right, going to drop off for a few hours, be back at 0000UTC
[08:28] <Riddell> xscreensaver-data in breezy has /usr/lib/xscreensaver/ant
[08:29] <ogra> again, is it urgent ? 
[08:29] <Riddell> ogra: not urgent in the slightest, I'll just upload kdeartwork without it, but if you add it back please let me know
[08:29] <ogra> Riddell: will do, i didnt notice it wasnt built ..
[08:35] <ogra> grr.... there is no manpage for ant anymore, not even upstream ...
[08:41] <\sh> damn...this bitch is bloody fast...I won't use the nc6000 anymore for building packages
[08:49] <dholbach> good night everybody
[09:19] <\sh> elmo / pitti: topic "backports": if a dapper package was backported to breezy, and this package has now some security issues, but the newly uploaded package to dapper can't be backported to breezy, how should we proceed?
[09:20] <seb128> backports are evil
[09:21] <shaya> is anyone here at LISA?
[09:21] <\sh> seb128: serious...actually I was waiting for such a thing to happen...and it looks like it will happen soon
[09:22] <seb128> what package?
[09:22] <\sh> Amaranth said vlc
[09:25] <Amaranth> \sh: I didn't say vlc has security issues.
[09:26] <ogra> looks like jdong needs to become a motu soon :)
[09:26] <Amaranth> \sh: I said if it did backports would be screwed.
[09:26] <\sh> [21:09]  <Amaranth> what happens when something is backported, has a security problem, but the fixed package in dapper no longer cleanly backports?
 there isn't an example of this yet
 but i believe the vlc package in dapper doesn't build anymore on breezy but an older one got backported
[09:28] <\sh> Amaranth: so..I translate it "it could have a security issue"
[09:28] <Amaranth> *shrug*
[09:28] <Amaranth> btw, it looks like it's a build-dep but vlc build-deps on about 100 things and it's hard to compare
[09:28] <\sh> Amaranth: if I understood you wrong..sorry
[09:29] <\sh> Amaranth: but we have to raise this question anyways...so it doesn't matter what package we are talking abiout
[09:29] <fabbione> Amaranth: you will have to backport the security patches.
[09:29] <Amaranth> fabbione: No source changes in backports.
[09:30] <\sh> fabbione: there are no source uploads to backports
[09:30] <fabbione> Amaranth: sucks to be you than :)
[09:30] <Amaranth> i'm just an observer
[09:30] <fabbione> Amaranth: well sucks to be who uses backports.
[09:31] <sivang> seb128++
[09:31] <sivang> seb128: (backports are evil)
[09:37] <ogra> pitti benefits from backports ... made his inbox smaller :)
[09:37] <ogra> backporting pmount that is
[09:39] <\sh> where is inti-sourceview hiding in dapper?
[09:44] <mpt> mjg59, ping (low priority)
[09:44] <fabbione> later guys
[09:45] <wasabi_> Woh my ibook just woke up with the new kernel.
[09:45] <mjg59> mpt: Hi
[09:45] <wasabi_> TWICE IN A ROW!
[09:46] <wasabi_> now that is nice to see.
[09:46] <dilinger> w/ the success of my other box, i should give dapper's kernels a try on my laptop, too.  see if the hibernate stuff works now
[09:47] <mpt> mjg59, an early Thinkpad wakes up without networking ~50% of the time. Restarting usually fixes it, but not always. What information should be included in a useful bug report?
[09:47] <mjg59> mpt: Restarting what?
[09:48] <mpt> Restarting the computer
[09:48] <mpt> (the "Deactivate" and "Activate" in network-admin don't work)
[09:49] <mpt> (or at least, don't bring the network back up)
[09:53] <mjg59> mpt: dmesg, lspci, cat /proc/interrupts
[09:53] <mpt> thanks mjg59
[09:54] <mjg59> No problem
[10:23] <Mithrand1r> elmo: (re ooo-amd64 and why build them):  It's mostly as a courtesy to upstream.  If we think they're usable, they might be in universe for dapper (I don't think we want them in main)
[10:24] <eruin> if glcore fails to load when using the ati driver, should I submit a bug?
[10:25] <eruin> or is the whole xorg situation in dapper so unstable atm that it's not really necessary?
[10:25] <mvo> BenC: we don't ship misdn in our kernels anymore, right?
[10:25] <BenC> mvo: no idea what that driver is
[10:26] <BenC> if it was in breezy, it should be in dapper
[10:27] <mvo> BenC: I think we removed it for breezy already because it was buggy, but I'm not 100% sure. i'm going over old bugreports right now
[10:28] <BenC> me too :)
[10:31] <eruin> ouch, second hardlock on the ati driver
[10:32] <daniels> i have glcore under control
[10:32] <daniels> as for r300 hardlocks ... yeah
[10:32] <daniels> that happens
[10:32] <lamont> misdn was dropped for the reason of being unmaintainable and buggy
[10:32] <sivang> hmm, firefox now also displays the welcome page
[10:32] <sivang> it's ugly
[10:32] <lamont> ask fabbione - it's a great way to get him going...
[10:32] <eruin> daniels; I've been looking at mailinglists and bugzillas, and saw something about dlopen
[10:33] <eruin> has that got anything to do with it?
[10:33] <BenC> lamont: heh, no thanks :)
[10:35] <daniels> eruin: for glcore?
[10:35] <eruin> daniels, hardlocking I believe
[10:36] <eruin> bah, I've lost my bookmarks.. nevermind ;)
[10:37] <seb128> daniels: dunno if that's a known issue, but dch stopped working for me, it displays squares instead of normal chars ...
[10:37] <seb128> Warning: Cannot convert string "-*-courier-medium-r-*-*-*-120-*-*-*-*-iso8859-*" to type FontStruct
[10:37] <mdz> mvo: doko would know about misdn
[10:38] <daniels> seb128: dch just invokes $EDITOR, IIRC
[10:38] <mvo> mdz: thanks, I looked over our config and we don't ship it anymore
[10:38] <seb128> daniels: emacs works fine when not started by dch
[10:38] <seb128> hi mdz
[10:41] <sladen> isn't it bedtime in .no
[10:41] <mdz> seb128: hi
[10:41] <Simira> not yet
[10:41] <Simira> sladen : it's half past ten
[10:41] <HiddenWolf> it is in .nl. :)
[10:41] <dilinger> bedtime is for people who sleep
[10:42] <sladen> Simira: it's certainly bedtime in .fi.  /me looks hintingly at other people still geeking
[10:42] <sladen> dilinger: valid point.  I suck at that...
[10:42] <seb128> mdz: did you read my hint for xchat-gnome / ^W yesterday?
[10:42] <mdz> seb128: hmm, no, I don't remember seeing it
[10:42] <mdz> I have been switching IRC clients due to moving around
[10:43] <Simira> sladen : you are there? You aren't by any chance going back via Oslo/Norway?
[10:43] <daniels> seb128: errrr ... i have no idea how dch is invoking emacs to screw up its fonts
[10:43] <daniels> that's quite impressive
[10:43] <seb128> daniels: do you have the issue too?
[10:44] <seb128> mdz: 
[10:44] <seb128>  <seb128>       mdz_: open the "Discussion" menu, go on the "close" label, press backspace
[10:44] <seb128>  <seb128>       mdz_: you need to have /desktop/gnome/interface/can_change_accels (gconf) set
[10:44] <daniels> can't really test because a) I don't have emacs installed, b) my X server only recognises two core fonts
[10:44] <daniels> (fixed and cursor)
[10:44] <seb128> it'll not make ^W works the way you want, but it'll stop it closing your tabs :)
[10:45] <mdz> seb128: but the shortcut there already says shift+ctrl+w rather than ctrl+w
[10:45] <seb128> weird
[10:45] <mdz> I'll try it though
[10:45] <seb128> mine says Ctrl+W
[10:45] <\sh> hey sladen...
[10:47] <mdz> seb128: yay, it works
[10:47] <seb128> cool
[10:47] <mdz> seb128: and also makes ^W DTRT
[10:47] <seb128> oh, cool
[10:48] <HiddenWolf> seb128, is any of that jds-performance-hacks blog stuff on planet gnome interesting for ubuntu?
[10:48] <mdz> I tried that approach with old xchat and it didn't work; the shortcut was hardcoded
[10:48] <seb128> right
[10:48] <seb128> you need to do it at every restart atm with xchat-gnome but that's fixed with the current SVN
[10:48] <mdz> seb128: any idea why my applications menu is broken?  it flashes open for a very short time, then disappears with only a tiny square under the menu bar
[10:49] <seb128> mdz: gam_server/inotify bug, I've forwarded upstream with some debug log I got from mvo but I don't get the issue here so it's not easy to debug
[10:49] <mdz> seb128: it happens on my desktop but I don't think it happens on my laptop
[10:50] <seb128> mdz: workaround is to run your session with GAM_TEST_DNOTIFY=1
[10:50] <seb128> so gam_server uses dnotify
[10:51] <doko> BenC, mvo: it would be nce to have it enabled now, so we can test with it and then decide if it' mature
[10:58] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm not going to make the meeting at 0200 UTC tomorrow, is that ok (since I've been on vacation, there's not much to report).
[11:04] <daniels> seb128: oh, the other thing is
[11:05] <daniels> seb128: your performance issues could well be due to the new kernel seemingly not providing mtrr support
[11:05] <daniels> seb128: does it help if you downgrade the kernel to 2.6.12?
[11:05] <seb128> daniels: I'll give it a try
[11:06] <seb128> daniels: what help is to use a color instead of an image for the background :p
[11:06] <mdz> Mithrandir: ok, please send a note to JaneW
[11:06] <eruin> mdz, I had the menu bug too, but it didn't appear on a fresh install a few days ago
[11:07] <daniels> seb128: heh.  a little bit less data, yeah.
[11:10] <daniels> okay, I should have a fix for the worst of the image breakage soon
[11:10] <seb128> daniels: what image breakage?
[11:11] <seb128> daniels: stuff like http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20286 are due to xorg?
[11:12] <ogra> what an odd software 
[11:13] <daniels> seb128: almost certainly
[11:13] <seb128> ?
[11:13] <daniels> ah yes
[11:13] <seb128> daniels: rock, I'll reassign to you. Seems that all those guys have ati/ppc config
[11:13] <daniels> if changing from 24bpp to 16bpp fixes it, then please reassign to xserver-xorg-core, title fbCompositeGeneral is horrifically broken, PENDINGUPLOAD
[11:14] <seb128> k
[11:14] <daniels> and yeah, per c#7, changing to 16 does fix it
[11:17] <seb128> daniels: bug changed
[11:17] <daniels> cheers
[11:17] <seb128> daniels: is "left handed mouse setup not working correctly" also a known issue?
[11:17] <seb128> buttons are not reversed
[11:21] <seb128> jdub: your comments on the ubuntu-desktop thread about the new session dialog would be welcome
[11:21] <jdub> ok
[11:21] <jdub> thanks
[11:22] <seb128> jdub: mpt seems to be suggesting something totally different of what we discussed at UBZ :/
[11:23] <daniels> seb128: yeah, mouse handling is screwed at the moment
[11:23] <jdub> but he's closer to sanity than what we discussed at UBZ (though far too many menu entries)
[11:24] <seb128> jdub: rah. Mark asks for one dialog with the 2 categories of action right?
[11:24] <jdub> yep
[11:24] <ogra> does he ? 
[11:24] <ogra> ouch
[11:24] <seb128> jdub: I don't really mind either way but we need to decide something and stick to that
[11:25] <jdub> i'm pushing for the 'turn off / log out' separation, ala windows xp
[11:25] <seb128> not to come with new ideas every time we are half implementation of something
[11:25] <ogra> jdub: but we have to many buttons
[11:25] <seb128> ogra: have you read the ubuntu-desktop list discussion/seen the screenshot?
[11:25] <wasabi> nice. xvimage sink is seg faulting
[11:25] <jdub> ogra: splitting like windows xp reduces that
[11:25] <ogra> seb128: yup
[11:25] <seb128> screenshots of the new dialog
[11:26] <daniels> wasabi: gstreamer problem
[11:26] <wasabi> think so?
[11:26] <ogra> and i find the buttons wonderful, but the layout awful
[11:26] <daniels> wasabi: yeah, the client-side part of Xv is utterly tiny
[11:26] <daniels> 'tis seb's fault ;)
[11:26] <wasabi> Heh.
[11:27] <seb128> wasabi: don't listen to him :p
[11:27] <ogra> seb128: the title must go completely... the checkbox seems misplaced in the dialog, there i agree with mpt
[11:27] <seb128> ogra: that everybody agrees I think :)
[11:27] <wasabi> true 'nuff.
[11:27] <ogra> and i dont think we need ok and help buttons
[11:27] <seb128> the question is about the principle of 2 rows of icons like this
[11:28] <daniels> seb128: well, it's either gstreamer or gtk :P
[11:28] <ogra> then just shuffle the buttons around in a sane manner (get a real layouter to do that)
[11:28] <seb128> daniels: gstreamer, freedesktop is yours, isn't it ? :)
[11:28] <ogra> seb128: lets ask a typographer who does that professionally i'd say
[11:28] <ogra> they know how to weight things
[11:29] <daniels> seb128: nuh-uh, its bts is gnome.org
[11:29] <ogra> jdub: cant your design guy have a look at it ? (the one who also makes spalsh and wallpapers)
[11:29] <jdub> that's art, not user interface design
[11:30] <daniels> also I couldn't help but notice that you've been doing all the Ubuntu uploads
[11:30] <seb128> daniels: still, as you said, the client part is tiny, I blame the server part which is yours :p
[11:30] <jdub> seb128: 0.10 going in?
[11:30] <ogra> jdub: but he will know how to lay out stuff in a sane manner
[11:30] <daniels> seb128: er, how could the server make the *client* segfault?
[11:31] <daniels> seb128: xv's usual failure mode involves seeing chroma key blue for a couple of seconds before your machine completely tanks
[11:31] <jdub> ogra: not really (this proposal is not sane anyway)
[11:31] <ogra> jdub: i think thats a very difficult one ...
[11:31] <ogra> that too
[11:31] <seb128> jdub: I've gstreamer0.10 almost done and gst-plugins-base0.10 with most of the work done, but it's not easy work, we need to rework all the plugins split, binaries packages, etc
[11:32] <jdub> erk
[11:32] <seb128> jdub: I'm a bit slow because I work with lool to decide on a common packaging with Debian and he's a bit busy this week
[11:32] <seb128> mvo: 'night :)
[11:32] <ogra> mvo: sleep well 
[11:32] <jdub> you want to do separate 0.10 compatible packages for rb, totem and friends, or just switch outright?
[11:32] <jdub> yo mvo
[11:33] <jdub> night mvo ;)
[11:33] <daniels> mvo: 'nacht
[11:33] <seb128> jdub: good question, I guess Depending of the app/how it works with gst0.10
[11:33] <seb128> jdub: switch totem probably, we have totem-xine for people who wants an usuable version :)
[11:34] <ogra> mvo: just stay up :)
[11:34] <seb128> jdub: if rhythmbox works fine enough with ogg/mp3 switch to gst0.10 too
[11:34] <seb128> ie: not bother to make new packages if not required
[11:34] <jdub> cool
[11:35] <neuralis> fyi for everyone: latest rumor has it that harvard will be switching its core servers to ubuntu shortly. i'm investigating.
[11:35] <ogra> kde discovers gambas :) http://www.kbasic.org/
[11:36] <\sh> ogra: old news
[11:37] <\sh> ogra: i'll package it the next days i think
[11:37] <ogra> eek
[11:37] <\sh> ogra: and gambas I fixed today somehow...it's evil upstream
[11:37] <Riddell> ogra: ?  gambas is qt
[11:37] <\sh> if DESTDIR!=ROOT  then set some random symlinks in /usr/bin
[11:38] <ogra> Does Linux need a modern BASIC? Yes, I would like to use my BASIC skills.
[11:38] <ogra> 	No, BASIC sucks. C++ is the king.
[11:38] <ogra> 
[11:38] <ogra> 
[11:38] <ogra> haha
[11:38] <ogra> someone should tell them there are other langs :)
[11:38] <daniels> god that site is horrendous
[11:39] <\sh> ogra: the evilness comes with the future..."rewrite of linux kernel in vb#" "we click code a new kernel"
[11:40] <ogra> BenC would love it :)
[11:40] <\sh> oh well
[11:40] <ajmitch> it would make maintenance a lot easier, I'm sure
[11:40] <\sh> linux + windows on one page..together with kbasic professional and linspire
[11:40] <\sh> FUD
[11:41] <ajmitch> that kbasic page looks a little flashy :)
[11:41] <Riddell> \sh: how is it FUD?
[11:41] <Riddell> crappy yes, but not FUD
[11:43] <\sh> "You can create modern BASIC applications for Windows and Linux "
[11:44] <\sh> ms bought linspire...to tell the world "ms is evil" and "linspire rocks"? therefore linspire sponsors a broken kbasic so ms gets all basic cracks to vb-click-sharp ... FUD ,)
[11:44] <\sh> time to go to bed
[11:45] <ogra> pfft 
[11:45] <jdub> hooray for smp by default
[11:45] <\sh> oh well.no bed...knoda links against python2.3
[11:46] <bigozs> is there anyone working on that migration assistant listed at launhpad?
[11:49] <mpt> bigozs, no, do you want to? :-)
[11:50] <bigozs> it's an interesting idea
[11:50] <\sh> oh wow...
[11:51] <bigozs> are there any guidelines about what to use to write this ?
[11:51] <mpt> I don't think so
[11:52] <mpt> At Ubuntu we're generally fans of python, but for something that difficult I think we'd be impressed if anyone implemented it at all :-)
[11:52] <mpt> (As long as you didn't use, oh, kbasic or something)
[11:52] <bigozs> no :)
[11:53] <bigozs> Python is fine
[11:54] <bigozs> shell scripts Ok too?
[11:56] <mpt> I don't see why not
[11:57] <mdke> anyone good with udev/new kernel issues?
[11:57] <mpt> bigozs, if it was going to be part of the installer you'd want to talk to Kamion
[11:58] <bigozs> mpt: i thought it could be postinstall
[11:58] <mpt> Well the problem with that is, post-install the Windows partition might not exist any more :-)
[11:58] <bigozs> a point for you, hehe
[11:58] <bigozs> :)
[11:58] <mpt> but it would rock to start up the live CD and launch a browser and oh! there's all your bookmarks from Windows
[12:01] <mdke> by the way mpt, did you see I edited the wiki license spec in line with your ideas, and added you as contributor to the spec?
[12:01] <mdke> feel free to make any more suggestions!
[12:02] <bigozs> we'll.. i'll try some basic ideas, if i come out with anything that makes sense i'll then let you all know... thanks for the answers :)