[12:07] <\sh> grrrr
[12:39] <Kyral> Either they took down my ban or my Hostmask allowed me in ;P
[12:40] <ogra> nobody is banned here
[12:41] <Kyral> in #ubuntuforums
[12:41] <ogra> ah
[12:41] <seth_k|lappy> I'm still banned
[12:41] <ogra> why do they ban people there ?
[12:41] <Kyral> the Arnieboy issue
[12:41] <seth_k|lappy> for disagreeing :P
[12:41] <ogra> tsk
[12:42] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, shush! Amaranth is handling my banning thingy
[12:42] <Kyral> oh seth_k|lappy I changed my LP name to Kyral
[12:42] <Kyral> oh lol
[12:42] <Kyral> sorry
[12:42] <seth_k|lappy> don't you make a fuss about it
[12:42] <seth_k|lappy> jiminy
[12:42] <seth_k|lappy> last thing I need is for them to actually have a reason
[12:43] <Kyral> so if its now to https://launchpad.net/people/kyral my ubuntu.com redirect should change to kyral soon?
[12:43] <seth_k|lappy> supposedly
[12:43] <Kyral> kk
[12:46] <seth_k|lappy> sweet: [17:45]  <FLeiXiuS> Were not under the CoC, nor do we give a shit about the CC in here..
[12:46] <Kyral> I countered don't worry
[12:46] <seth_k|lappy> goes to show how much the forums are part of Ubuntu
[12:53] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: is said FLeiXiuS an moderator inn forums?
[12:53] <minghua> s/inn/in/
[12:53] <Kyral> yah
[12:53] <Kyral> he is
[12:53] <Kyral> I loved that
[12:53] <Kyral> they banned my old hostmask
[12:53] <seth_k|lappy> minghua, yes http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?u=26
[12:54] <Kyral> I popped back in said, "May want to try the cloak" and left ;D
[12:54] <seth_k|lappy> the guy sucks at banning
[12:54] <seth_k|lappy> if you changed your identd name, you could get back in
[12:54] <Kyral> No
[12:54] <Kyral> that would be intentional ban evasion
[12:55] <Kyral> this time was an accident
[12:55] <seth_k|lappy> may I remind, "they're not under the CoC" :P
[12:56] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: the situation of forums is apparently worse than I thought
[12:56] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:56] <minghua> hi sistpoty
[12:57] <Kyral> Should I wage war with my Forums account or just keep helping people
[12:57] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, the users are obviously the important part
[12:57] <Kyral> Agreed
[12:57] <Kyral> I shall keep my normal Forum duties
[12:58] <seth_k|lappy> minghua, I'm banned on the forums because I, like Ubuntu, think that the principles of free software are good
[12:58] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, what's the command to toggle your cloak on/off
[12:59] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: you "unidentify" from NickServ
[12:59] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: I read the logs of CC meeting today, and saw that ubuntugeek (is he/she the founder of ubuntu forums) pretty sad with the current situation
[01:00] <seth_k|lappy> minghua, he's the founder... but I think the only thing he's sad about is that the CC "interferes" in the forums.
[01:00] <seth_k|lappy> minghua, he talked about shutting the forums down (thinly veiled threat)
[01:00] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: I was thinking the problem of forums is just misinformed users, now it seems some moderators are misinformed as well
[01:00] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, unidentify and then reID?
[01:01] <Kyral> no
[01:01] <Kyral> the Cloak is tied to your NickServ login
[01:01] <Kyral> just changing to an unregistered nick
[01:03] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: what was ubuntugeek's opinion?  does he want CC to be involved in the conflicts in forums or not?  my reading is that he wants CC involved as arbitrator.
[01:03] <seth_k|lappy> minghua, my reading was that he wanted the CC to bugger off
[01:03] <seth_k|lappy> let me read it again
[01:04] <seth_k|lappy> have the link handy?
[01:04] <sistpoty> ping azeem
[01:04] <azeem> hi
[01:04] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ubuntu-meeting-2005-12-06.html
[01:05] <sistpoty> hi azeem
[01:05] <sistpoty> azeem: you maintain mopac7 as well?
[01:05] <azeem> yes
[01:05] <azeem> it used to be included in the ghemical source tree, but they split it out for 1.90, so I packaged it as well
[01:06] <sistpoty> azeem: it won't build on ia64 :/... iirc debian is affected as well, just in case you haven't noticed yet
[01:06] <azeem> hrm
[01:06] <seth_k|lappy> minghua, here is his opinion: "well i am tired of this bullshit surrounding the forums and the ubuntu community and the community council.. I am seriously considering terminating the project or removing the official status it has. i find it hard to accept the CC an make any rules or decisions when they dont even visit the forums"
[01:08] <sistpoty> azeem: yep... build from nov28 failed... same prob on the ubuntu buildd... and I don't have a clue at all :(
[01:09] <azeem> huh, wow
[01:09] <azeem> yeah, vorlon and neuro discussed this earlier
[01:09] <azeem> I saw it, but didn't realize it was about mopac
[01:09] <minghua> seth_k|lappy: I _think_ he meant the CC should perticipate in the forums then make decisions, not just asking for links and listen to arguments from both sides in IRC meetings as CC is doing now
[01:09] <azeem> 10:47 < vorlon> anyone care to take a crack at this ia64 build failure, tied into the latest C++ transition?
[01:09] <azeem>                 http://buildd.debian.org/fetch.php?pkg=mopac7&arch=ia64&ver=1.10-1&stamp=1133225861&file=log
[01:09] <azeem> 10:49 < neuro> try -O3 ?
[01:09] <azeem> 10:49 < neuro> binutils/compiler bug
[01:09] <azeem> 10:50 < vorlon> one that requires raising the optimization level? eep
[01:09] <azeem> 10:50 < vorlon> hmm, I guess it's building with gcc-3.4; wonder what the reason is for that
[01:09] <azeem> 10:50 < neuro> raising the optimization level might make things small enough that you don't exceed the size for GPREL22
[01:09] <azeem> 10:51 < vorlon> ok
[01:10] <azeem> 10:51 < neuro> that would be the first thing to fix, the problem may just go away then
[01:10] <azeem> -O3 didn't work, though
[01:10] <sistpoty> wow, what a crack *g*
[01:10] <azeem> http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17224
[01:10] <Ubugtu> gcc bug #17224: [3.4/4.0 Regression] : relocation truncated to fit: GPREL22 Product: gcc, Component: target, Severity: minor, Assigned to: rth@gcc.gnu.org, Status: RESOLVED, Resolution: FIXED http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=17224
[01:13] <sistpoty> azeem: why is mopac7 built with gcc-3.4?
[01:13] <azeem> due to that fortran->c stuff
[01:13] <Kyral> a lot of KDE Packages coming down the pipe
[01:13] <Kyral> Maybe I can finally install Kubuntu-Desktop
[01:14] <sistpoty> azeem: ah, I see
[01:14] <azeem> sistpoty: libg2c0 is from gcc-3.4, and I believe it does not exist for gcc-4.0 anymore (similar to g77)
[01:14] <azeem> I could be wrong of course
[01:14] <raphink> anybody would like to try a lamp metapackage and let me know if it works ?
[01:14] <Kyral> raphink: I think Seveas has one...
[01:14] <raphink> Kyral: really,
[01:15] <Seveas> yeah
[01:15] <sistpoty> azeem: it is... iirc I took a glimpse if this could be avoided, but it seems that then all fortran libs needed to be recompiled with gfortran instead of g77
[01:15] <raphink> ?
[01:15] <raphink> maybe we could compare
[01:15] <raphink> Seveas: wanna see mine and you can give me yours
[01:15] <Kyral> Seveas: I've been meaning to ask what that has in it
[01:15] <raphink> .?
[01:15] <Seveas> raphink, seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/pool/seveas-meta
[01:15] <azeem> sistpoty: yeah, there is no policy in place for gfortran if I understood doko correclty
[01:15] <raphink> ok thanks
[01:16] <Seveas> http://seveas.ubuntulinux.nl/pool/seveas-meta/seveas-meta/lamp (to be precise)
[01:16] <sistpoty> azeem: k, thx
[01:16] <Kyral> hmm Seveas you should submit that to the Universe
[01:16] <Kyral> it would help a lot I think
[01:16] <raphink> Seveas: we do not have the same goal in a lamp meta I think ;)
[01:17] <Seveas> Kyral, no, I discussed metapackages a few times before and it was rejected
[01:17] <seth_k|lappy> Seveas, phpmyadmin instead of, say, mysql-query-browser? are you specifically wanting a web-based admin tool?
[01:17] <Kyral> ah okay
[01:17] <Seveas> lamp does not mean the same for everyone
[01:18] <Seveas> {linux,bsd,solaris}{apache,lighttpd}{mysql,postgres,sqlite}{php,perl,python,ruby}
[01:18] <Seveas> seth_k|away, it is just an example package
[01:18] <raphink> Seveas: no I mean my goal is to have a set up LAMP, not merely a list of package
[01:18] <Seveas> raphink, what more do you need to set it up?
[01:19] <raphink> wait a min i'll show you
[01:19] <Seveas> an evil postinst that will 100% guaranteed bork on upgrades?
[01:19] <seth_k|lappy> Seveas also, do you know anything about the status of the cloak on my nick yet?
[01:19] <raphink> an evil postinst that prevents users from having to edit apache2.conf and ln -s php*.load
[01:19] <raphink> which is what most people want
[01:19] <Seveas> seth_k|away, should be set already
[01:22] <Seveas> raphink, eep
[01:22] <Seveas> that's bad
[01:22] <Seveas> that's what a2enmod is for
[01:22] <Seveas> and the php postinst does an a2enmod for php
[01:22] <raphink> yes
[01:22] <raphink> maybe
[01:22] <raphink> but I believe if it's well done it can be good
[01:22] <Seveas> lemme see your postinst :)
[01:23] <raphink> hehe
[01:23] <raphink> it's just a mockup
[01:23] <raphink> Seveas: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/451767
[01:24] <raphink> very basic
[01:24] <raphink> i'm afraid the php package doesn't set apache2 right
[01:24] <raphink> although I agree it should
[01:24] <raphink> at least libapache2-mod-php4
[01:24] <Seveas> I never needed to do these actions
[01:24] <raphink> I did
[01:25] <raphink> on all the machines I installed a LAMP on
[01:25] <raphink> on ubuntu that is
[01:25] <Seveas> a2enmod does that
[01:25] <raphink> php wouldn't activate by itself
[01:25] <Seveas>  php{4,5}.conf has that apache config part
[01:25] <raphink> neither the AddType, nor the ln -s
[01:26] <Seveas> and php{4,5}.load has the LoadModule
[01:26] <raphink> well then the a2enmod doesn't work in libapache2-mod-php* ,I guess
[01:26] <Seveas> it works fine for me on hoary and breezy
[01:26] <Seveas> you only have to restart apache afterwards
[01:26] <raphink> nope
[01:26] <Seveas> and doing that in the postinst of the metapackage is very icky
[01:26] <raphink> I had to do these two changes manually
[01:27] <raphink> I agree it's weird to do it in the postinst of a metapackage but it just didn't set on any of the system I installed a LAMP on
[01:27] <sistpoty> what if s.o. purges the lamp?
[01:27] <sistpoty> +package
[01:27] <Seveas> ghe
[01:27] <Seveas> the postinst of php5 does both a2enmod AND reloads apache
[01:28] <raphink> not the one in php4
[01:28] <Seveas> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5469
[01:28] <Seveas> im pretty sure it does
[01:29] <raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/451772
[01:29] <raphink> it almost does nothing
[01:30] <Seveas> it does
[01:30] <Seveas> http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5470
[01:30] <Seveas> your version is the postinst from the source
[01:30] <raphink> what postinst is taht?
[01:30] <Seveas> look at the postinst in the package
[01:30] <Seveas> that is php4 from the deb
[01:31] <raphink> ?
[01:31] <Seveas> in the source you miss a lot, that's what debhelper adds
[01:31] <Seveas> #
[01:31] <Seveas> # dh_installdeb will replace this with shell code automatically
[01:31] <Seveas> #
[01:31] <Seveas> # generated by other debhelper scripts.
[01:31] <Seveas> #
[01:31] <Seveas> 
[01:31] <Seveas> #
[01:31] <raphink> hmm ok
[01:31] <Seveas> #DEBHELPER#
[01:31] <Seveas> and guess what: that part does all the magic
[01:31] <raphink> yes
[01:32] <Seveas> so you don't need to do ANYTHING manually
[01:32] <raphink> I have _exactly_ the same postinst in the deb
[01:32] <raphink> in breezy that is
[01:33] <raphink> I don' tsee where you see this long postinst :(
[01:33] <Seveas> that is weird, which version us that
[01:33] <raphink> where do you find these?
[01:33] <Seveas> libapache2-mod-php4_4%3a4.4.0-3_i386.deb
[01:34] <raphink> ooooh
[01:34] <raphink> so you're nto talking about php4 pacakges
[01:34] <Seveas> well duh
[01:34] <raphink> but about libapache2-mod-php4
[01:34] <Seveas> for apache you need libapache2-mod-php{4,5}
[01:34] <raphink> yes
[01:34] <Seveas> the php package itself should do nothing about apache config
[01:35] <raphink> heh it's 1:35 AM
[01:35] <Seveas> it would be very strange if it did
[01:35] <raphink> does a2enmod remove the # before the AddType too?
[01:35] <Seveas> no
[01:35] <Seveas> the AddType is done by a *separate config file*
[01:35] <Seveas> php4.conf
[01:36] <raphink> hmmm
[01:36] <Seveas> which a2enmod symlinks (and your postinst not)
[01:36] <Seveas> conclusion: for a complete lamp setup you only need to install packages :)
[01:37] <Seveas> and set a mysql password (but you don't want that in a postinst)
[01:37] <raphink> I'm sorry but
[01:37] <raphink> I ran dpkg-reconfigure libapache2-mod-php4
[01:37] <raphink> and I still have no php module in /etc/apache2/mods-enabled/
[01:38] <Seveas>       7 if [ "$1" != "configure" ] ; then
[01:38] <Seveas>       8     exit 0
[01:38] <Seveas>       9 fi
[01:38] <Seveas> the postinst only does that when installing
[01:38] <raphink> well how come they were not present when I installed them then?
[01:39] <Seveas> dunno, somthing borked I guess
[01:39] <raphink> yes I guess
[01:39] <raphink> I have to find that out and file a bug I guess
[01:39] <raphink> it's not the first time it happens to me
[01:40] <raphink> just removed it and reinstalled it
[01:40] <ajmitch> you have looked in the right postinst, right?
[01:40] <raphink> and it's not there
[01:40] <Seveas> did you purge it too?
[01:40] <sistpoty> is colin@colino.net here?
[01:40] <sistpoty> hey ajmitch
[01:40] <ajmitch> hello sistpoty
[01:41] <sistpoty> ;)
[01:41] <raphink> hmm
[01:41] <raphink> then there's phpmyadmin that doesn't want to be removed
[01:41] <sistpoty> hehe
[01:41] <ajmitch> raphink: no kidding, blame me
[01:41] <ajmitch> you need to install another package to get it to uninstall cleanly :)
[01:41] <raphink> ajmitch : why?
[01:41] <raphink> which package ajmitch?
[01:42] <ajmitch> because it needed to build on the older yada right before release, which broke removal
[01:42] <ajmitch> but it let the security fix build
[01:42] <raphink> ...
[01:42] <raphink> Seveas: do you plan on getting your package in universe?
[01:42] <Seveas> raphink, not a chance that it'll be accepted
[01:42] <ajmitch> raphink: make sure debconf is installed (it should be)
[01:43] <raphink> ajmitch ok
[01:43] <raphink> sure it is
[01:44] <ajmitch> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/phpmyadmin/+bug/4200 for the ubuntu bug, fyi
[01:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4200: failure to source /usr/share/debconf/confmodule in phpmyadmin.prerm causes package removal to fail In: phpmyadmin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/4200
[01:45] <raphink> ok
[01:47] <ajmitch> ah, make sure that ucf is installed
[01:47] <raphink> hmm ok
[01:47] <raphink> I don't need to remoev it right now though ;)
[01:48] <ajmitch> ok..
[01:51] <ajmitch> ah, ogra
[01:51] <ogra> whats wrong ?
[01:51] <ajmitch> it doesn't install, file conflicts with older kino-dvtitler
[01:51] <ogra> oops
[01:51] <ogra> i'll fix that tomorrow
[01:51] <ajmitch> ok
[01:52] <ajmitch> thanks :)
[01:52] <ogra> or feel free if you like ;)
[01:52] <ogra> s/if you like/if its urgent/
[01:53] <ajmitch> it's not urgent, I don't exactly use it
[01:53] <ogra> i cant test it either ...
[01:53] <ajmitch> trying to overwrite `/usr/lib/kino-gtk2/libdvtitler.so.0.0.0', which is also in package kino-dvtitler
[01:53] <ajmitch> looks like it shouldn't try to install this file
[01:53] <ogra> yup
[01:53] <ogra> it just needs a Replaces line
[01:53] <ajmitch> ok
[01:53] <ogra> there are more plugins they merged in 0.8.0
[01:54] <ajmitch> ah that's good
[01:54] <ogra> i'll have to look into it ... for now i just needed to close the merge bug, we want to run MOM again ...
[01:54] <ajmitch> that's fine
[01:54] <ajmitch> I can look tonight if you want
[01:55] <ogra> ... that only works if all merge bugs are closed ..
[01:55] <sistpoty> ogra: mom will run again?
[01:55] <LaserJock> azeem: ping?
[01:55] <ogra> sistpoty, if we have time left
[01:56] <ogra> sistpoty, main had dealine last thursday for merges
[01:56] <sistpoty> ogra: no need to hurry with merge bugs though... current merge list doesn't cover all mom runs yet, but I already figured how to find out what needs to be touched again
[01:56] <ajmitch> if it does run again, feel free to assign me some merge bugs :)
[01:56] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I can make assign all merge bugs to you ;)
[01:57] <sistpoty> (but not write correct english)
[01:57] <ogra> ajmitch, i ususally have only a small amount ... Riddell is the one who suffers from merges
[01:57] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I should clear up all the zope bugs in a day or two
[01:57] <ogra> ajmitch, i guess he's grateful for every of his merge bugs you grab
[01:57] <ajmitch> there's only 40 of them, all alike
[01:58] <sistpoty> ajmitch: cool
[01:58] <azeem> LaserJock: pong
[01:58] <ajmitch> a few minutes per zope package is needed :)
[01:59] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/merges
[01:59] <ajmitch> I still see a few from an up-to-date comparison
[02:00] <LaserJock> azeem: found another bug in ghemical :(
[02:00] <sistpoty> ajmitch: how did you build that comparison list? because i'll be in need to find out current dapper/unstable versions for updating the merge-list
[02:00] <azeem> LaserJock: :(
[02:01] <LaserJock> azeem: should I try reporting to debian BTS? or should I just email the ghemical-devel ML?
[02:01] <ajmitch> sistpoty: an old script of mine - it loads the debian & dapper sources & does a compare for each package :)
[02:02] <ajmitch> I should rewrite it for python-apt
[02:02] <azeem> LaserJock: I think it would be best to record it in some bug tracker as well, like the BTS or malone
[02:02] <sistpoty> ajmitch: can it be easily adopted to just spit out unstable-version/dapper version for a given sourcepackage? (and may I eventually reuse that?)
[02:02] <LaserJock> azeem: I will do it in malone if that's ok with you. I'm not yet comfortable with the Debian bts yet.
[02:03] <azeem> ok
[02:03] <ajmitch> sistpoty: of course
[02:03] <sistpoty> ajmitch: cool
[02:04] <ajmitch_> Loaded
[02:04] <ajmitch_> treecc is at version 0.3.6-2 in Debian
[02:04] <ajmitch_> treecc is not in Dapper
[02:04] <ajmitch_> treecc is at version 0.3.6-2 in DpUniverse
[02:04] <ajmitch_> (not in Dapper means not in main)
[02:04] <sistpoty> ajmitch: rock! thx in advance :)
[02:04] <azeem> ajmitch_: you should get banned for saying that in here
[02:05] <ajmitch> azeem: probably
[02:05] <azeem> and I should sleep, laters
[02:05] <ajmitch> night
[02:05] <sistpoty> good night azeem
[02:05] <ogra> night all
[02:05] <sistpoty> gn8 ogra
[02:05] <ajmitch> night ogra
[02:10] <raphink> how do I set the chmod for some files in a package?
[02:11] <raphink> i've seen that in some packages but can't remember how
[02:13] <minghua> raphink: I know one way to do it is using install with -m options
[02:14] <raphink> yes I knwo that
[02:14] <minghua> raphink: depending on what you need, dh_fixperms is probably good enough
[02:14] <raphink> can I use it in an install file?
[02:14] <raphink> I need to set the permissions of 6 files in particular
[02:14] <raphink> among all
[02:14] <raphink> they need special rights
[02:15] <minghua> raphink: Hmm, what's wrong with chmod in debian/rules?
[02:15] <raphink> nothing's wrong
[02:15] <raphink> I just have to fine where to put it
[02:16] <raphink> and if I put it in build:: or install::
[02:16] <ajmitch> ah, cdbs?
[02:16] <raphink> then it's overridden by dh_fixperms
[02:16] <raphink> yep
[02:16] <raphink> hehe
[02:16] <raphink> so i'm wondering if there's a section where I can put it
[02:16] <raphink> so it is executed after the fixperms
[02:16] <ajmitch> an example
[02:16] <ajmitch> binary-post-install/gnue-common:: chmod 0755 debian/gnue-common/usr/lib/gnue/python/gnue/common/printing/pdftable/sample.py
[02:16] <ajmitch> except it's on 2 separate lines
[02:17] <ajmitch> irssi didn't really want to cooperate in pasting ;)
[02:17] <raphink> so you put it in binary-post-install
[02:17] <raphink> hehe
[02:17] <raphink> ;)
[02:17] <minghua> raphink: sounds like you need the -X option for dh_fixperms
[02:17] <ajmitch> yes, I did put in in binary-post-install::
[02:17] <raphink> I can't change fixperms directly minghua as long as i'm using cdbs
[02:17] <ajmitch> isn't cdbs obvious? ;)
[02:18] <raphink> ajmitch my package is arch indep
[02:18] <minghua> raphink: I see.  sorry I've never used cdbs
[02:18] <raphink> should I put it in binary-* still?
[02:18] <ajmitch> so is mine
[02:18] <raphink> good for you minghua :)
[02:18] <raphink> ok :)
[02:18] <raphink> i'll try that
[02:18] <raphink> thanks a lot
[02:18] <raphink> :)
[02:19] <ajmitch> cdbs is often a bit of black magic though
[02:19] <tseng> a bit
[02:19] <raphink> hehe
[02:20] <raphink> just a bit ;)
[02:21] <sistpoty> it's not black magic... it's only makefile magic (but i guess that's black too) ;)
[02:22] <ajmitch> sistpoty: having to read cdbs source to follow what is going on is bad enough
[02:22] <sistpoty> hehe ajmitch, I tried once... but gave up pretty fast
[02:22] <raphink> argh
[02:23] <raphink> I put it in binary-post-install
[02:23] <raphink> but it is still run before fixperms
[02:23] <raphink> argh
[02:23] <ajmitch> really?
[02:23] <raphink> yes
[02:23] <raphink> justa  bit before
[02:24] <raphink> well i'll look at that tomorrow
[02:24] <raphink> i'm too tired right now
[02:24] <minghua> debhelper is enough black magic for me :-)
[02:24] <raphink> thanks for your help ajmitch
[02:24] <ajmitch> maybe use DEB_FIXPERMS_EXCLUDE as well
[02:24] <raphink> hmmm
[02:24] <raphink> I'll see about that
[02:24] <ajmitch> note that mine was binary-post-install/packagename::
[02:24] <raphink> but not now
[02:25] <ajmitch> not sure if that's needed  :)
[02:25] <raphink> now is bed time
[02:25] <raphink> yes I noted that ajmitch
[02:25] <raphink> and did the same
[02:25] <ajmitch> binary-fixup/packagename:: might be more useful
[02:25] <sistpoty> gnight raphink
[02:25] <ajmitch> since your rule should run after cdbs' rule
[02:26] <raphink> thanks
[02:26] <raphink> I'll try that and then go to bed
[02:26] <ajmitch> hm
[02:26] <ajmitch> if not, then the last rule is binary-predeb :)
[02:26] <raphink> that's my last attempt for tonight
[02:26] <raphink> good to know :)
[02:27] <raphink> good
[02:27] <raphink> fixup runs after dh_fixperms :)
[02:27] <ajmitch> great
[02:27] <raphink> so it should work
[02:27] <ajmitch> my package didn't fit fixperms, I think
[02:27] <ajmitch> s/fit/hit/
[02:27] <raphink> :)
[02:28] <raphink> mhm
[02:29] <raphink> yes
[02:35] <seth_k|lappy> Cheers Seveas, the cloak works now :) Thanks again
[02:47] <ajmitch> sistpoty: we need to update trac on tiber
[02:48] <sistpoty> ajmitch: go ahead if you want ;)
[02:48] <sistpoty> ajmitch: i guess it's affected by security probs?
[02:48] <ajmitch> sistpoty: well, I could grab the package from debian
[02:48] <ajmitch> yeah
[02:48] <ajmitch> or I could try & hammer out a security update for breezy as well
[02:48] <ajmitch> http://packages.qa.debian.org/t/trac/news/1.html
[02:49] <ajmitch> we've got 0.8.4, so backporting a fix will be fun
[02:49] <sistpoty> hm... /me doesn't really have a clue bout trac :(
[02:50] <sistpoty> iirc mbreit helped setting up trac on tiber, but unfortunately he hasn't been around for quite some time
[02:50] <ajmitch> neither do I ;)
[02:52] <sistpoty> can new upstream versions go into -security?
[02:52] <ajmitch> maybe
[02:52] <ajmitch> we'd have to ask pitti
[02:54] <bmonty> hey LaserJock
[02:57] <LaserJock> hi bmonty, how's it going>
[02:57] <bmonty> great, how about you?
[02:58] <LaserJock> bmonty: well, I got membership early this morning
[02:58] <sistpoty> congrats LaserJock
[02:58] <bmonty> awesome, congrats!
[02:59] <LaserJock> thanks sistpoty and bmonty
[03:00] <LaserJock> hi macgyver2
[03:00] <Kyral> why can't they see...
[03:00] <macgyver2> hi LaserJock
[03:00] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, your enthusiasm will get you nowhere. Wait for someone who can actually do something about it, e.g. the CC, to intervene
[03:01] <LaserJock> ajmitch: dholbach didn't give you a hug this morining? ;-)
[03:01] <Kyral> no....
[03:01] <Kyral> The CC will do no good this time....
[03:01] <ajmitch> LaserJock: no :(
[03:01] <Kyral> KB is dead set on breaking away
[03:01] <ajmitch> Kyral: maybe you need to have #ubuntu-forums
[03:02] <Kyral> No...I will not let another Split happen...
[03:02] <Kyral> this cannot happen again...not again...
[03:02] <bmonty>  what are you talking about?
[03:02] <ajmitch> instead of -motu being the forum metadiscussion channel
[03:03] <Kyral> I've lived through a split like this...before...
[03:03] <ajmitch> as fun as it is to hear all the juicy forums gossip from the sidelines, it's probably wandering a bit OT
[03:03] <Kyral> sorry...
[03:03] <ajmitch> that's ok
[03:03] <Kyral> its my emotions acting up
[03:04] <ajmitch> understandable
[03:04] <bmonty> at least it isn't your herpes :)
[03:06] <lifeless> waassup
[03:08] <bmonty> hey lifeless
[03:10] <sistpoty> ajmitch: from the short glimpse at trac, there is no easy way of backporting the security fix...
[03:11] <sistpoty> ajmitch: and (though I can't say I understand all the black magic in there) I believe, that the "fix" might still be vulnerable to some attacks... but I wouldn't guarantee that ;)
[03:12] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, tell me what KB said on #ubuntu-offtopic or via query, if you would
[03:12] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: I can mirror the convo to you
[03:13] <seth_k|lappy> thanks Kyral
[03:13] <seth_k|lappy> pastebin is fine, or e-mail seth [@]  ubuntu.com, or whatever
[03:13] <ajmitch> afternoon lifeless
[03:13] <bmonty> ajmitch: on the filelight package do you think the original source package mismatch between ubuntu and debian should be documented?
[03:14] <ajmitch> perhaps
[03:14] <ajmitch> lifeless: I noticed that bazaar.launchpad.net is 403 now for the index page?
[03:14] <bmonty> bascially somethine like "the original source packages differ so this is a merge instead of a sync"
[03:18] <lifeless> ajmitch: bazaar.launchpad.net is a new site
[03:18] <lifeless> ajmitch: no content yet until the bzr pull branches are working
[03:19] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: I'll send you a log
[03:20] <ajmitch> right, I saw 2 entries there when you originally showed it to me
[03:24] <Kyral> I think its done
[03:24] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: you want the logfile?
[03:25] <ajmitch> and all is right with the world?
[03:25] <Kyral> no...
[03:25] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral, yes please
[03:25] <Kyral> I tried my best...
[03:25] <ajmitch> and there's too much anger there :)
[03:25] <seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, it won't be right with the world until the forums are either run by Canonical or destroyed :P
[03:25] <Kyral> He is claiming that someone from the Officials DDOS'd him
[03:26] <seth_k|lappy> anyways Kyral as previously stated, this is OT, so move it somewhere else ;) (but send me that log)
[03:26] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: feel free to PM me
[03:27] <Kyral> yah my forwarding hasn't been changed yet soio....don't reply to kyral@ubuntu.com
[03:27] <seth_k|lappy> ajmitch, in this channel?
[03:28] <seth_k|lappy> cos I'd be happy to regale you :P
[03:28] <ajmitch> not here
[03:28] <Kyral> hmm, neither are up lol
[03:29] <Kyral> neither petermcv@ubuntu.com nor kyral@ubuntu.com work
[03:30] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: how long did it take for your change to work?
[03:30] <minghua> still talking about the forum thing?
[03:30] <Kyral> Jeez you want me to email the log over the MOTU ML?
[03:31] <ajmitch> no
[03:31] <Kyral> now I'm wondering how long it will take my @ubuntu.com to change to kyral
[03:32] <minghua> Kyral: no, but if convenient, please send the log to minghua@rice.edu, thanks
[03:33] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: log?
[03:33] <Kyral> err
[03:33] <Kyral> email?
[03:34] <ajmitch> Kyral: yep, you know my address, send the file
[03:35] <Kyral> seth?
[03:37] <Kyral> bah I'll just send it to seth@yubuntu.com
[03:37] <Kyral> - the y
[03:38] <bmonty> is it OK to call autoconf from the build target in debian/rules?
[03:38] <Kyral> you mean in ./configure?
[03:38] <Kyral> s/mean in/like
[03:38] <bmonty> no autoconf
[03:38] <bmonty> as in call autoconf and then ./configure
[03:42] <Kyral> minghua, ajmitch, seth_k|lappy: Sent
[03:46] <ajmitch> ok, to my ubuntu.com address?
[03:46] <hybrid> i have a question of how repos work
[03:47] <hybrid> could i upload video to a server and add it to my sources.list then some how apt it?
[03:47] <tseng> buhwhat?
[03:47] <tseng> apt doesnt speak video
[03:47] <hybrid> but you can download the linux gazzette
[03:47] <tseng> which is almost as stupid
[03:48] <LaserJock> sistpoty: ping?
[03:48] <tseng> text compresses much better
[03:48] <seth_k|lappy> cheers Kyral, this is helpful stuff
[03:49] <Kyral> ajmitch: yah
[03:49] <seth_k|lappy> Kyral: okay with you if I excerpt this for the CC agenda
[03:50] <Kyral> seth_k|lappy: Everything I log is under the FDPL ;P
[03:51] <seth_k|lappy> :P
[03:51] <Kyral> I dunno if KB will be okay though
[03:54] <Kyral> who cares ;P
[03:55] <|sistpot|> LaserJock: pong
[03:55] <Kyral> |sistpot|: you are lagged by 7 minutes it seems ;P
[03:55] <|sistpot|> hehe
[03:56] <LaserJock> sistpoty: http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new is for Universe only?
[03:56] <ajmitch> LaserJock: yes
[03:57] <ajmitch> at least it should be only universe
[03:57] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yes
[03:57] <LaserJock> k, just wanted to make sure
[03:58] <sistpoty> LaserJock: it _could_ handle main, but you would need to append &distribution=main
[03:59] <sistpoty> LaserJock: actually it's universe + multiverse, not just universe
[03:59] <bmonty> so any comment on my autoconf question?
[03:59] <LaserJock> right, MOTU/M ;-)
[04:00] <bmonty> I think the MoM merge mangled the configure script, and autoconf in rules fixes that, but I'm not sure if that makes sense to do
[04:01] <Kyral> How do I register a product in LP?
[04:01] <ajmitch> Kyral: by going through the registration pages?
[04:01] <lifeless> launchpad.net/products
[04:01] <Kyral> ty
[04:01] <ajmitch> it's fairly self-explanatory from there
[04:01] <Kyral> I'm slow lol
[04:01] <minghua> bmonty: I'm not sure, but I think it's okay.  build is the first target you would call afterall
[04:02] <lifeless> configure scripts rarely merge well
[04:02] <bmonty> I see other packages doing it, but then I can also find stuff that says not to bootstrap in rules
[04:02] <lifeless> right
[04:02] <lifeless> so there is a philosophical debate
[04:02] <lifeless> 'does applying a patch count as making a new distribution of FOO'
[04:03] <bmonty> or is this the case that it works 99% of the time and fails in a couple corner cases?
[04:03] <lifeless> the folk that say 'bootstrap in debian/rules' are saying 'if you apply a patch, you must act like upstream and effectively make a new distribution of FOO'
[04:03] <lifeless> the folk that say 'never bootstrap in debian/rules' are putting their fingers in their ears and going la-la-la
[04:03] <lifeless> ;)
[04:04] <bmonty> I guess I know which side of the debate you stand on :)
[04:05] <lifeless> well, when its not needed, I will avoid bootstrapping cause it does introduce more moving parts
[04:05] <bmonty> most of the reasons I see to not bootstrap seem to revolve around introducing new archs as some point in the future
[04:05] <lifeless> but as an upstream for what - a half dozen + projects these days - I expect anyone that patches my code to rebootstrap
[04:06] <bmonty> I guess it isn't a mortal sin for packaging then
[04:07] <sistpoty> what do you mean with bootstrap? regenerating autotools stuff?
[04:07] <lifeless> yes
[04:07] <lifeless> autoreconf for instance.
[04:07] <sistpoty> ah
[04:09] <LaserJock> is there a way to see a list of files in a package without actually downloading .deb?
[04:10] <Kyral> apt-file?
[04:10] <Kyral> packages.ubuntu.com?
[04:11] <LaserJock> apt-file might work. I want to find science packages that have .desktop files
[04:11] <Kyral> I can't wait until Saturday
[04:11] <Kyral> REVU Day and ajmitch's MOTUSchool :D
[04:12] <Kyral> lol
[04:17] <bmonty> shawarma: ping
[04:18] <LaserJock> crap I can't figure out how to use apt-file
[04:21] <Kyral> ajmitch: You should fear for me
[04:21] <ajmitch> why?
[04:21] <Kyral> I have to give a presentation on it for my Linux Lab
[04:22] <ajmitch> 'it'?
[04:22] <Kyral> the MOTUSchool lesson ;P
[04:23] <ajmitch> *why* are you going to give a presentation on that?
[04:24] <Kyral> Because I told the head of the lab about it and he told me to "take good notes because you will give a presentation next semester on it"
[04:24] <ajmitch> oh lucky you
[04:24] <ajmitch> there's one problem
[04:24] <Kyral> what?
[04:24] <ajmitch> you assume I know what I'm talking about
[04:24] <Kyral> no
[04:24] <Kyral> lol
[04:25] <Kyral> You are the DD ;P
[04:25] <sistpoty> ajmitch: btw.: have you had time to look at my package (min12xxw) for debian yet?
[04:26] <LaserJock> can somebody give an example of apt-file usage? sorry for the bother
[04:28] <bmonty> LaserJock: are you getting no result when you run the command?
[04:29] <LaserJock> bmonty: yeah
[04:29] <bmonty> try 'apt-file update' and then search again
[04:29] <LaserJock> bmonty: I tried apt-file update but still nothing
[04:29] <bmonty> i did 'apt-file update
[04:29] <bmonty>  and then apt-file list
[04:30] <bmonty> and it works
[04:30] <LaserJock> bmonty: but apt-file update and it was really fast
[04:30] <bmonty> mine took 21 sec
[04:30] <LaserJock> bmonty: hmm, 0.4 s for me
[04:33] <bmonty> if I upload a merge for someone I can put their email in the changelog, right?
[04:33] <bmonty> I know you guys did it for me, but I remeber the first time there was an issue with it
[04:34] <LaserJock> bmonty: yeah, aren't they supposed to be whitelisted first? I could be wrong
[04:34] <sistpoty> bmonty: you do that by simply getting applying the patch/debdiff and not changing the changelog
[04:34] <sistpoty> bmonty: i.e. just sign the package with you key (debsign) and upload
[04:35] <bmonty> sistpoty: ok, the person who did the merge didn't update their changelog
[04:36] <sistpoty> bmonty: then request an updated diff ;)
[04:37] <LaserJock> bmonty: I get the following when I do sudo apt-file -v update :
[04:37] <LaserJock> D: got 'deb http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu dapper universe main restricted multiverse': Bad file descriptor
[04:38] <bmonty> LaserJock: I just used apt-file for the first time about 15 mins ago and not updating made it not work for me
[04:38] <bmonty> I wish I could help though
[04:38] <LaserJock> bmonty: hmm, that's weird
[04:38] <sistpoty> bmonty: if you have to edit the package, imo you should be listed in the changelog
[04:43] <bmonty> sistpoty: if I did that and the person didn't know why it might make them not want to help or confuse them (I know that is how I would feel)
[04:44] <sistpoty> bmonty: that's why I suggested you ask for an updated diff in the first place ;)
[04:44] <bmonty> sistpoty: which was a good suggestion, and what I did :)
[04:44] <sistpoty> :)
[04:47] <bmonty> can we mark a package to not merge?
[04:47] <sistpoty> bmonty: to sync instead? or to drop from the list?
[04:48] <bmonty> sistpoty: the package is filelight, it would be a sync except the upstream tarballs in debian and ubuntu are different
[04:49] <sistpoty> bmonty: the upstream tarballs are different? that's kinda strange
[04:49] <ajmitch> sistpoty: orig.tar.gz might have been repacked
[04:49] <ajmitch> most likely in ubuntu
[04:49] <sistpoty> ok
[04:50] <sistpoty> bmonty: if the ubuntu changes can be dropped, because they are non-existant, you should request a sync
[04:50] <bmonty> I think it might make sense to wait for the next version (if there is one) and sync that from debian
[04:51] <bmonty> sistpoty: I did request the sync and elmo said he can't because the orig.tar.gz files are different
[04:51] <sistpoty> hrmpf
[04:51] <sistpoty> ajmitch: any clues?
[04:51] <ajmitch> sistpoty: about what?
[04:51] <sistpoty> [03:51:00]  <bmonty> sistpoty: I did request the sync and elmo said he can't because the orig.tar.gz files are different
[04:52] <ajmitch> sistpoty: I've already talked with bmonty about this
[04:52] <sistpoty> ah, k
[04:52] <bmonty> this might be easy for someone more proficient with diffutils than I, but it would be a lot of hand-jamming to do the merge
[04:52] <ajmitch> we cannot have the debian orig.tar.gz in the archive without breaking the archive
[04:52] <ajmitch> bmonty: why is that?
[04:53] <LaserJock> arrghhh >:( why won't apt-file work?
[04:53] <bmonty> the MoM patches are all against the debian orig.tar.gz
[04:53] <ajmitch> bmonty: so?
[04:53] <ajmitch> are there file differences between the orig.tar.gz files?
[04:53] <bmonty> ajmitch: what is an easy way to diff the tar files?
[04:54] <ajmitch> untar them into 2 directories
[04:54] <ajmitch> diff -Naur dir1 dir2
[04:55] <bmonty> ajmitch: that doesn't give any output
[04:56] <ajmitch> that's good
[04:56] <ajmitch> it might be something as simple as timestamps
[04:56] <ajmitch> tar tvfz file1.tar.gz > file1.list
[04:56] <ajmitch> same with file2
[04:56] <ajmitch> diff them :)
[04:58] <bmonty> ajmitch: thats hard to tell, the file owner and group is different for every file, so everything is in the list
[04:59] <LaserJock> is there a /etc file that gives the distro i.e. dapper?
[04:59] <ajmitch> bmonty: ah, so that's why
[05:01] <LaserJock> should /etc/debian_version say testing/unstable for dapper?
[05:01] <ajmitch> yeah, probably
[05:01] <bur[n] er> mine does
[05:02] <sistpoty> ok, I'm off to bed now... cya
[05:02] <ajmitch> night sistpoty
[05:03] <LaserJock> hmmm, well apt-file is looking at the wrong URL and it looks like it doesn't know it's dapper
[05:04] <crimsun> we don't pay any attention to /etc/debian_version
[05:05] <LaserJock> maybe that isn't the problem. it looks like it can't fine main, universe etc. :
[05:05] <LaserJock> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/Contents-i386.gz
[05:06] <crimsun> the canonical (no pun intended) way is to use /etc/lsb-release , normally through lsb_release(1)
[05:08] <LaserJock> why is it looking for Contents-i386.gz ?
[05:10] <ajmitch> bbl
[05:10] <lathiat> iirc ubuntus Contents-i386.gz are not updated
[05:10] <lathiat> LaserJock: its a list of files ine very package
[05:11] <lathiat> ah
[05:11] <lathiat> i see
[05:11] <lathiat> (scratch the last message :)
[05:11] <lathiat> but the not updated bit did apply a while back, does it apply now?
[05:12] <LaserJock> lathiat: I can't apt-file update
[05:13] <LaserJock> ahhh, I see. Dapper doesn't have a Contents-*.gz
[05:13] <Kyral> God I feel like I was in SW during that query with KB
[05:16] <crimsun> LaserJock: it's best to ping kamion, mdz, lamont, infinity, or elmo about that if you don't get a response relatively shortly
[05:17] <LaserJock> crimsun: ok, I don't think it is significant but I am curious
[05:18] <Kyral> You know you use the Terminal too much when you try to tab complete everything
[05:18] <crimsun> no, that's just a sign of liking tab completion. You know you love the Terminal too much when you spend more time writing bash-completions for every program you use.
[05:20] <Kyral> lol
[05:20] <Kyral> uhh
[05:20] <crimsun> LaserJock: kamion and elmo are likely to be asleep at this hour, only mdz and infinity may be awake.
[05:21] <LaserJock> crimsun: oh, ok. well they will all get a chance to look at it
[05:25] <bmonty> allright, filelight got accepted....ajmitch thanks for the help
[05:29] <Kyral> hmm the dictcomplete script is broken saying there is no /usr/share/dict/words
[06:04] <bmonty> good night everyone
[06:59] <zakame> rainy afternoon all :)
[07:00] <crimsun> 'morning zakame
[07:01] <zakame> hi crimsun :)
[07:03] <zakame> waah, lucene fails to build... why? :?
[07:04] <zakame> considering it builds perfectly in my updated pbuilder :/
[07:06] <crimsun> BUILD FAILED
[07:06] <crimsun> /build/buildd/lucene-1.4.3/build.xml:141: Error running jikes compiler
[07:06] <crimsun>    at org.apache.tools.ant.taskdefs.compilers.DefaultCompilerAdapter.executeExternalCompile(java.lang.String[] , int, boolean) (Unknown Source)
[07:06] <crimsun>  ^^ that?
[07:07] <zakame> yup, though looking down I see that libgcj.so.X doesn't seem to be there
[07:20] <LaserJock> anybody using irssi?
[07:20] <ajmitch> yes
[07:21] <LaserJock> ajmitch: stupid question, how do you get out of it? I am way to used to gui irc clients
[07:21] <zakame> LaserJock: /bye
[07:22] <LaserJock> zakame: ok, thanks. man, do I feel dumb
[07:23] <zakame> LaserJock: hehe, we all do feel like that some time ;)
[07:24] <LaserJock> well, I like the idea of irssi but I need to read a little bit more about how to use it first :)
[07:24] <crimsun> one of irssi's neatest features is its proxy
[07:24] <crimsun> I use ssh tunneling to access it
[07:25] <LaserJock> right now I'm using gaim in Windows and Xchat in linux
[07:25] <LaserJock> crimsun: yeah, that is what I wanted to do with it
[07:26] <ajmitch> crimsun: I never use that, I just use irssi+screen
[07:26] <LaserJock> so do you set everything up in .irssi/config ?
[07:27] <zakame> woohoo screen
[07:27] <ajmitch> LaserJock: you can
[07:29] <LaserJock> I used to use screen a far bit in my Gentoo days. I recently got vnc going so that has been cool.
[07:36] <crimsun> 'evening minghua
[07:36] <minghua> crimsun: good evening :-)
[07:37] <zakame> hi minghua :)
[07:37] <minghua> hi zakame
[07:38] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[07:38] <minghua> hi LaserJock, congratulations on the membership
[07:39] <LaserJock> minghua: thanks
[07:40] <LaserJock> minghua: are you subscribed to the ubuntu-motu ML ?
[07:43] <minghua> LaserJock: yes I am
[07:44] <LaserJock> minghua: ok, I just sent an email about the packaging guide and I thought you might want to read it.
[07:44] <minghua> any MOTU can review the sync for scim?  malone bug #4805
[07:44] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4805: scim: libstdc++ new allocator build In: scim (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/4805
[07:45] <minghua> I hope this get done soon, so that my newly uploaded (to debian) scim-tables won't get synced in ubuntu with the wrong ABI
[07:47] <minghua> LaserJock: got the mail, will read later
[07:47] <LaserJock> minghua: fine, just thought you might be interested.
[07:48] <LaserJock> good night everybody. I gotta get to bed
[07:48] <minghua> good night LaserJock
[07:48] <zakame> gn8 LaserJock
[07:52] <crimsun> minghua: looks good, I can request a sync now if you'd like
[07:52] <minghua> crimsun: yes, please do
[07:53] <minghua> crimsun: thanks
[07:53] <crimsun> np
[07:57] <zakame> afternoon dholbach :)
[07:58] <dholbach> good morning motus
[07:58] <crimsun> re dholbach
[07:59] <dholbach> how are you all?
[07:59] <minghua> hi dholbach
[07:59] <crimsun> great, you?
[07:59] <dholbach> crimsun: if you don't mind, i answer after my first coffee :)
[07:59] <minghua> life is wonderful, altough a bit cold :-)
[08:00] <zakame> dholbach: still figuring out why lucene hasn't built yet? :(
[08:00] <dholbach> minghua: where do you live, how could is it?
[08:00] <dholbach> zakame: no java love?
[08:01] <minghua> dholbach: well, I suppose it can't be called cold compared with anywhere else as I'm in Houston, TX...
[08:01] <zakame> dholbach: trying to :/
[08:01] <minghua> my "cold" only means "I can't go outside with only T-shirt and shorts on anymore" :-)
[08:01] <dholbach> minghua: how cold is it?
[08:01] <zakame> dholbach: thanks :D
[08:01] <minghua> let me check weather
[08:02] <dholbach> it's 0C over here
[08:02] <minghua> okay, it's 52F, so that's like what, 10C?
[08:03] <minghua> 11C maybe
[08:03] <dholbach> siretart: ping
[08:03] <zakame> thanks all, gtg later :D
[08:04] <dholbach> off for a kernel upgrade
[08:04] <dholbach> brb
[08:04] <minghua> is there any easy way to quote a bug comment in malone?
[08:06] <crimsun> in what sense?
[08:07] <minghua> I want to click a link so I have quoted text (with ">" at the beginning of the line) in my new comments
[08:07] <minghua> maybe with the quoted author and time
[08:07] <minghua> like in bugzilla
[08:08] <crimsun> ah, I don't know; ask in #launchpad
[08:09] <minghua> will do
[08:25] <ajmitch> wb dholbach  ;)
[08:27] <dholbach> hey andrew :)
[08:32] <ajmitch> hi
[08:32] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[08:33] <dholbach> ajmitch: better, after the first coffee :)))
[08:34] <crimsun> hehe
[08:37] <siretart> dholbach: morning!
[08:37] <dholbach> hey siretart
[08:37] <dholbach> siretart: damn, i forgot what i wanted to ask you
[08:37] <dholbach> grmbl
[08:38] <siretart> lol
[08:38] <siretart> dholbach: perhaps because of some mailing list stuff?
[08:38] <dholbach> i think it was even more important
[08:38] <dholbach> ;)
[08:38] <dholbach> i'll find out
[08:39] <siretart> If it is important, you'll remember it for sure ;)
[08:39] <ajmitch> morning siretart
[08:39] <siretart> huhu ajmitch
[08:41] <whiprush> hi aj.
[08:45] <ajmitch> hey whiprush
[08:47] <siretart_> damn
[08:47] <siretart_> somehow my server not responding
[08:48] <siretart_> the strange thing is, that the host of that vserver IS reachable.. very strange..
[08:48] <whiprush> ajmitch/dholbach: so I think mentioning the new MOTUs on the fridge right on the front page is a good idea.
[08:48] <dholbach> whiprush: YES! :)
[08:48] <whiprush> the plan being "do the work to become an MOTU, get your name in lights"
[08:48] <dholbach> whiprush: and IT'S EASY! START! TODAY! :)
[08:49] <whiprush> how's the motu-school thing working out?
[08:49] <whiprush> lots of participation I hope?
[08:50] <dholbach> we had one session already
[08:50] <dholbach> and \sh announced it afterwards
[08:50] <dholbach> but we have quite a lot of people who want to see the next session
[08:51] <whiprush> excellent.
[08:51] <dholbach> the new mailing list is BONUS as well
[08:52] <dholbach> with each answered question we have some piece of documentation
[08:52] <dholbach> which is cool
[08:52] <whiprush> excellent.
[08:53] <sivang> morning all!
[08:54] <dholbach> siretart: i remembered: i think that ubuntu-dev being a subteam of motureviewers is WRONG
[08:54] <dholbach> siretart: a mail got out to 2496729467426 people, that bmonty requested to be part of that team
[08:54] <dholbach> to herbert xu, to thom may, ... :)
[08:54] <crimsun> I was wondering about that
[08:55] <dholbach> either i didnt understand the team relationship model or this is the wrong way
[08:55] <dholbach>  . o O { might be both, too }
[08:56] <siretart_> dholbach: I see your point
[08:56] <siretart_> dholbach: I don't think the problem is that ubuntu-dev is member in the motureviewers group
[08:56] <dholbach> maybe it's right, but it seems to be a bit unpractical
[08:57] <siretart_> dholbach: I rather think the problem is that ubuntu-dev is ADMINISTRATOR of motureviewers
[08:57] <siretart_> dholbach: this is a point we can talk about
[08:57] <siretart_> dholbach: perhaps we should make the group MOTU instead of ubuntu-dev as administrator?
[08:58] <dholbach> siretart_: maybe, yes - and drop the administrator status
[08:58] <siretart_> ok. will change this now
[08:59] <siretart_> dholbach: the same thing will come with the group ubuntu-universe-contributors (the ppl which can upload to revu2)
[09:00] <dholbach> yeah, better to have a small group of administrators, no?
[09:00] <whiprush> hey so what ever happened to bdebian?
[09:00] <whiprush> he still around?
[09:00] <siretart_> dholbach: both have advantages
[09:00] <siretart_> and disadvantages
[09:00] <dholbach> he became a motu, but he seems to be quite busy in the last time
[09:01] <crimsun> doing the family thing :)
[09:02] <whiprush> hmmm, so, I had a brainstorm today that I'd like to run by you guys.
[09:02] <whiprush> I recall a while back reading a wiki page by ogra ...
[09:02] <whiprush> the basic idea was "how to debug an app."
[09:02] <whiprush> and I was thinking that it might make a good fridge piece during the dev cycle.
[09:03] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash?
[09:03] <whiprush> yeah, that's it.
[09:03] <whiprush> so I was thinking, midway or so into the dev cycle, or close the preview release ...
[09:03] <whiprush> we do a story on this, expand on it a bit.
[09:04] <dholbach> sounds cool
[09:04] <whiprush> basically, the idea being, "you're running dapper, but you don't know how to really report good bugs."
[09:04] <whiprush> like, in bugzilla when a dev says "can you do a trace for me?"
[09:04] <dholbach> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bugs/Responses can give a general direction too
[09:04] <whiprush> and most of us go ... "uhhh ...."
[09:04] <whiprush> right.
[09:04] <dholbach> or HelpingWithBugs :)
[09:04] <dholbach> we'll run a BUG DAY next week
[09:05] <dholbach> christmas cleanup
[09:05] <whiprush> So I was kind of thinking something along the lines of combining that into a general guide.
[09:05] <dholbach> there's a link to some page....
[09:05] <dholbach> let me think
[09:05] <dholbach> http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/bugs.html
[09:06] <whiprush> where a dapper person can say "ok, I know I need the -dbg packages, and I can follow this guide, and that'll make me at least partially part of the solution."
[09:06] <dholbach> althought that's a bit long
[09:06] <whiprush> as opposed to "It doesn't work, help me daniel."
[09:07] <dholbach> yeah, that's cool
[09:07] <whiprush> I mean, lots of people are going to run -devel anyway, might as well attempt to give them a general idea on how to report stuff.
[09:08] <whiprush> especially around preview release.
[09:08] <dholbach> even before
[09:08] <whiprush> just something I've been bouncing around in my head.
[09:09] <dholbach> :)
[09:09] <dholbach> i like it
[09:09] <whiprush> I miss the old bug buddy, it did all that for me. :)
[09:09] <whiprush> now I have to learn the right way, this vexes me, heh.
[09:11] <whiprush> I think a bit of love to DebuggingProgramCrash would do the trick.
[09:11] <whiprush> and then just publicisizing it.
[09:11] <TheMuso> And I have heard somewhere that debugging multi-threaded apps is something else again.
[09:11] <TheMuso> I have seen project docs suggest using the apply all bt command in gdb for multi-threaded apps.
[09:12] <crimsun> yes, debugging multithreaded apps using gdb is heinous
[09:14] <ajmitch> you need special powers
[09:14] <ajmitch> super debugging skills
[09:14] <siretart_> and a strong mind
[09:14] <crimsun> sounds like andrew's volunteering!
[09:14] <crimsun> ;)
[09:15] <whiprush> well, if we can think of a way to make Joe Blow running dapper to make him/herself more useful, I think that would be great.
[09:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: certainly not me
[09:15] <ajmitch> anyone of the MOTUs who's met me can vouch that I'm not up for such tasks :)
[09:15] <whiprush> Off the top of my head I can think of 10 people running dapper "for the sake of testing" that don't really dig into it.
[09:17] <dholbach> TheMuso: bug-buddy uses "apply all bt" and it's suggested in that wiki page too
[09:17] <TheMuso> Otherwise, only for package testing, and chroots are used.
[09:18] <ajmitch> oh I use dapper for my home system
[09:18] <ajmitch> I just don't do much package work right now
[09:19] <TheMuso> I tried using a dev release for a while, but I have a few too many custom requirements that are a pain to keep updating and rebuilding to do so.
[09:19] <dholbach> poor mono team
[09:19] <ajmitch> dholbach: oh?
[09:19] <dholbach> banshee gets 2467927469246 bug reports
[09:19] <TheMuso> I don't mind updating my requirements on a stable system if there are major bugfixes or security fixes.
[09:19] <ajmitch> ah, banshee
[09:19] <dholbach> and they all look the same
[09:20] <ajmitch> like beagle
[09:20] <crimsun> speaking of security fixes...
[09:20] <dholbach> ajmitch: worse
[09:20] <ajmitch> dholbach: don't worry, the mono team has the crack troops of tseng & slomo_
[09:20] <dholbach> ajmitch: somebody should compare the traces and dup all the bugs
[09:20] <ajmitch> I've got 4 nearly identical f-spot bug reports across debian & ubuntu
[09:21] <ajmitch> and upstream doesn't see what's going wrong
[09:21] <whiprush> bed for me, nite guys.
[09:21] <dholbach> sleep tight, whiprush
[09:21] <ajmitch> night whiprush
[09:21] <crimsun> 'night jorge
[09:21] <whiprush> dholbach: ok, I'll have one smoke for old time's sake.
[09:21] <ajmitch> heh
[09:22] <whiprush> I hope it's in my hemisphere.
[09:22] <ajmitch> northern? :)
[09:23] <ajmitch> I think it'll most likely be
[09:23] <whiprush> I was thinking "less than $2000 for a ticket-sphere."
[09:23] <TheMuso> And having trouble getting there in the first plac.
[09:23] <TheMuso> s/plac/place/
[09:24] <whiprush> I'd like to go to brazil.
[09:24] <whiprush> and germany is always a good choice.
[09:24] <whiprush> good beer!
[09:24] <dholbach> :)
[09:25] <ajmitch> germany would be nice
[09:25] <ajmitch> except for the long flights
[09:25] <dholbach> what interesting motto would they have for a german conference?
[09:25] <ajmitch> and the horrendous cost of those flights
[09:25] <dholbach> Ubuntu ... ... errr *shrug*
[09:25] <crimsun> mmm brasil
[09:25] <dholbach>  yeah :)
[09:26] <shawarma> I've got one last merging question, I think.. The package I worked on didn't need any extra work besides what had been done by MoM, so I just uploaded the debdiff from MoM to Malone. bmonty commented that I should just put my info in the changelog, and everything will be fine. Right now, the changelog has the automatically added entry from MoM.. Should I remove that and put in the same info with my name on it, or should I add another entry? I'm
[09:26] <ajmitch> still expensive :)
[09:26] <ajmitch> shawarma: put your name on it
[09:26] <ajmitch> ie, remove scott's name
[09:26] <shawarma> ajmitch: Excellent. Thanks!
[09:26] <crimsun> yep, else scott gets spammed and becomes frustrated
[09:26] <whiprush> Octoberbuntu.
[09:26] <shawarma> crimsun
[09:26] <shawarma> whoops
[09:26] <whiprush> rolls off the tounge
[09:26] <shawarma> crimsun: That makes sense.
[09:26] <ajmitch> UbuntuBeerFest
[09:27] <siretart_> katie will reject now unmodified MoM merges
[09:27] <ajmitch> siretart_: oh?
[09:27] <siretart_> from what I heared there is now a check in fernanda for this
[09:27] <crimsun> cool
[09:27] <ajmitch> why is that?
[09:27] <siretart_> but I didn't try myself
[09:27] <siretart_> ajmitch: I just heared elmo and Keybuk chattering about this, I think..
[09:28] <ajmitch> C-e C-c is esay enough in emacs to fill in my info :)
[09:28] <siretart_> maybe just rumors..
[09:28] <siretart_> C-e C-c?
[09:28] <ajmitch> sorry, C-c C-e C-c C-c
[09:28] <siretart_> in diff mode?
[09:28] <ajmitch> the magical key combos
[09:28] <ajmitch> in debian changelog mode
[09:28] <siretart_> aaahja..
[09:29] <ajmitch> unfinalise & finalise changelog
[09:29] <minghua> any vim debian changelog mode? :-)
[09:29] <ajmitch> there probably is
[09:31] <ajmitch> we need to svn2bzr this repository ;)
[09:36] <ajmitch> it's fun when you see that hotplug will be removed on tiber
[09:38] <siretart_> ajmitch: ?
[09:38] <ajmitch> siretart_: dapper chroot dist-upgrade
[09:40] <ajmitch> dholbach: forming a security team? you mean reviving the currently inactive one? :)
[09:41] <dholbach> yeah
[09:41] <dholbach> and MEANING it
[09:41] <ajmitch> hehe
[09:43] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #10: It says "displaying matching bugs 1 to 8 of 8", but there is 9 In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Rejected https://launchpad.net/bugs/10
[09:43] <ajmitch> haha
[09:44] <siretart_> hi StevenK
[09:46] <ajmitch> evening StevenK
[09:47] <minghua> okay, the debian changelog mode in vim seems only doing syntax highlighting and add some menus in GUI
[09:48] <minghua> no added command AFAICS
[09:48] <siretart_> 'only ... add some menus'? this is a lot! :)
[09:48] <ajmitch> siretart_: in vim?
[09:48] <ajmitch> sigh, 110MB to dist-upgrade my sid chroot
[09:49] <minghua> siretart_: the "add menus" part is just my guess as I don't have a GUI version of vim
[09:49] <ajmitch> StevenK: you s hould have it now if you've signed the CoC
[09:49] <siretart_> minghua: ah, sorry. I overlooked the 'vim' part
[09:49] <\sh> moins
[09:49] <\sh> lol
[09:49] <\sh> "German Stock Exchange removes Elmos from TecDax"
[09:49] <StevenK> I have, but I have no indication that it works.
[09:49] <siretart_> hrhr
[09:50] <siretart_> hi \sh
[09:50] <\sh> moins
[09:50] <ajmitch> StevenK: email stevenk@ubuntu.com
[09:50] <siretart_> StevenK: try sending an email to 'stevenk@ubuntu.com'
[09:51] <siretart_> ah, ajmitch again faster than me ;)
[09:51] <ajmitch> :)
[09:52] <StevenK> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<stevenk@ubuntu.com>: host fiordland.warthogs.hbd.com [82.211.81.145] : 550 <stevenk@ubuntu.com>: Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table
[09:52] <siretart_> StevenK: there is a cronjob updating the virtual alias table
[09:52] <siretart_> StevenK: so it is just a matter of time until it runs next
[09:54] <StevenK> And where will it forward to?
[09:56] <siretart_> StevenK: to stevenk@debian.org
[09:56] <siretart_> StevenK: whatever you specify as your 'primary address' in launchpad
[09:58] <StevenK> But then what happens if I set my u.c address as the primary? :-)
[09:59] <siretart> better not to 'stevenk@ubuntu.com', this would cause a mailloop. and an angry elmo ;)
[10:00] <minghua> shouldn't the mail forwarding program detect that by itself?
[10:01] <minghua> StevenK: yes, people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs
[10:01] <siretart> minghua: perhaps elmo has already fixed this. I don't know
[10:03] <minghua> on a second thought, however, it's always possible to set the primary address to another alias that forward to the @u.c address, so... :-)
[10:03] <kapil> siretart: I got 'Error '553 Could not create file.' while trying to upload to revu. Could you please help?
[10:03] <siretart> kapil: retry
[10:03] <kapil> siretart: I tried this upload in response to a message from you on 6th December.
[10:04] <kapil> siretart: It seems to be working now. Thanks.
[10:14] <bojan> morning!
[10:19] <dholbach> whiprush: "The inimitable Daniel Holbach"? :)
[10:28] <Seveas> seth_k, ping
[10:45] <siretart> hunger: around?
[10:49] <hunger> siretart: I am (but tend to reply on the wrong channels).
[10:50] <siretart> hehe
[10:50] <\sh> siretart: http://www.daimonin.net/index.php?module=htmlpages&func=display&pid=5
[10:50] <siretart> hunger: I havn't heard from you since some time, and you didn't answer my reviews on revu
[10:50] <\sh> siretart: nice rogue like mmorpg (real)
[10:50] <siretart> hunger: mind to give me a status update over your xen packages?
[10:51] <hunger> siretart: OH, I thought you wouldn't comment on them on revu.
[10:51] <\sh> siretart: have it running on breezy...but I have some weired settings...libsdl let me only start this game only as root
[10:51] <hunger> siretart: I have to read your comments tonight.
[10:51] <hunger> siretart: My code is on Ed's site now, the revu stuff is somewhat outdated.
[10:51] <siretart> hunger: Oh sorry, well, I did
[10:52] <siretart> hunger: ok, then I'll archive what is on revu, ok?
[10:52] <siretart> \sh: oops
[10:52] <siretart> \sh: I read it is gpl. do they use a somewhat sane buildsystem?
[10:52] <hunger> siretart: Ed wants to merge my work with his so that we both have a common base to start from.
[10:52] <\sh> siretart: makefile :)
[10:52] <siretart> hunger: that would be great
[10:52] <\sh> siretart: and configure :)
[10:53] <hunger> siretart: "Archiving" meens what exactly?
[10:53] <siretart> hunger: my main concern was that your package replace the existing xen version 2 packages
[10:53] <hunger> siretart: Why?
[10:53] <siretart> hunger: archiving means it doesn't show up at the top but at the bottom of the list. nothing more
[10:53] <hunger> Due to the name?
[10:54] <siretart> you use the same source package name as the xen2 packages, which are already in ubuntu and debian
[10:54] <hunger> siretart: Good point...
[10:54] <siretart> and your resulting binaries do also conflict with existing binary packages
[10:54] <siretart> is this on purpose?
[10:54] <siretart> I'd feel way more comfortable it they would not conflict
[10:55] <hunger> siretart: I am not sure how this source package thing will work out... Ed and I use mercurial now for our sources, so our stuff is merged with the upstream code in a repository.
[10:55] <siretart> hunger: I'm talking only about the debian package names, i.e. debian/control
[10:55] <hunger> siretart: It is not. We just use the upstream names (which have not changed).
[10:56] <siretart> hunger: I don't see much problems in naming them 'xen3' 'xen3-hypervisor' and so on
[10:56] <hunger> siretart: Yeap, but if those do not conflict then the binary names should not either:-)
[10:56] <siretart> hunger: excatly thats my point
[10:56] <siretart> \sh: so this seems like a nice target for MOTUGames :)
[10:57] <\sh> siretart: yepp
[10:57] <hunger> siretart: well, the kernel/udev upgrade broke my system anyway, so there is not much I can do at this point anyway;-(
[10:57] <\sh> siretart: but I don't have the time in the moment to package it...grrr...
[10:57] <\sh> between xmas and new years eve even
[10:58] <siretart> \sh: so join MOTUGames :)
[10:59] <siretart> I'd like to have a common motugames repository for our games (currently pong2, londonlaw and njam)
[11:11] <dholbach_> siretart: repository?
[11:11] <siretart> dholbach: yes. managed by svn or bzr
[11:12] <siretart> the point against bzr is that we would have to write a 'bzr-buildpackage' similar to svn-buildpackage
[11:12] <dholbach> what is the idea behind it?
[11:12] <siretart> to track changes in packaging
[11:12] <azeem> siretart: the trick is to wait till somebody else does it
[11:13] <azeem> jbailey talked about writing bzr-buildpackage a couple of times, IIRC, so just be patient :)
[11:13] <dholbach> azeem: as if jbailey wasn't busy enough...
[11:13] <siretart> azeem: well, in fact, I'm waiting for it since some time, and it is on my todo list since some months.. not on too high priority, sadly
[11:14] <ajmitch> but it's only been talk so far :)
[11:14] <azeem> probably, three independent implementations of bzr-buildpackage will surface within one week eventually
[11:14] <siretart> I'd really like to utilize cm.py for that, this would make it really trivial
[11:14] <ajmitch> azeem: of course
[11:15] <ajmitch> siretart: it's probably an easier way to do it
[11:15] <siretart> ajmitch: did you get cm.py do something useful?
[11:15] <ajmitch> nope :)
[11:16] <ajmitch> something to ask lifeless about if you have time
[11:16] <siretart> if he has time
[11:16] <ajmitch> that too :)
[11:29] <siretart> w00h00. cm.py did something useful now..
[11:29] <siretart> interesting..
[11:36] <janimo> is there a way of removing packages from REVU?
[11:38] <Gloubiboulga> hello
[11:38] <siretart> janimo: yes.
[11:38] <siretart> janimo: just tell me or another revu admin
[11:42] <minghua> ok, time to reboot again
[11:51] <dholbach> siretart: could you hop on #ubuntu-devel?
[11:52] <janimo> siretart, please remove thunar then, thanks
[11:53] <siretart> janimo: done
[12:28] <siretart> w00h0. /me is back!
[12:28] <siretart> :)
[12:29] <crimsun> siretart: filterdiff would be a good idea for
[12:30] <crimsun> siretart: the post to s-r@l.u.c
[12:30] <siretart> crimsun: yes, I was thinking about it. but then this would not have been a complete debdiff to the package which I intend to upload
[12:30] <siretart> crimsun: I expected the reviewers to be aware of filterdiff
[12:31] <crimsun> but then it's not strictly necessary to touch the config.{guess,sub}, no?
[12:34] <siretart> crimsun: it is debian/rules which checks in clean target if there is a newer config.{guess,sub}
[12:34] <siretart> and replaces it without asking
[12:34] <raphink> siretart: do you know of a function to get mysql port ?
[12:34] <siretart> I could prepare another upload without invoking clean
[12:34] <raphink> without grepping the mysql conf file
[12:34] <siretart> raphink: I try to avoid using mysql
[12:35] <raphink> hehe
[12:35] <raphink> well I need to ;)
[12:38] <StevenK> Much better database, minus the stupid crap the mysql developers keep spouting.
[12:40] <raphink> heh
[12:41] <raphink> ok then
[12:41] <raphink> do you know of a way to print only the first line in a sed result ?
[12:41] <raphink> like running sed I get 3 lines and I only want the first one
[12:42] <raphink> http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/452296
[12:42] <raphink> is there a simple way to get only one line from this?
[12:42] <minghua> siretart: I think such package (that have config.{guess,sub} in .diff.gz) should get a bug filed to
[12:43] <minghua> siretart: the correct way should be using one recommended by /usr/share/doc/autotools-dev/README
[12:43] <minghua> siretart: unfortunately the debian/rules generated by dh-make get this wrong
[12:46] <siretart> minghua: I tend to agree, but this cannot be done within a security fix
[12:46] <minghua> siretart: sorry, wasn't aware that you are talking about security fix
[12:47] <viviersf> ajmitch : ping
[12:47] <siretart> minghua: in general yes, ok. But I don't think this warrants diverging from debian
[12:48] <siretart> so a wishlist bug against the debian package should be filed
[12:48] <siretart> imo
[12:48] <siretart> perhaps our DD's here can comment on this
[12:48] <StevenK> Huh?
[12:48] <minghua> siretart: I used to deal with such case by replacing my /usr/share/misc/config.{sub,guess} with the one in the package temporarily
[12:48] <minghua> siretart: that way I can still call clean target
[12:49] <minghua> siretart: a very dirty hack, of course
[12:49] <siretart> StevenK: it about updating config.{guess,sub} in debian/rules clean target
[12:49] <StevenK> Having clean depend on config.{sub,guess} is *dumb*.
[12:49] <StevenK> The clean target is supposed to clean up after the build process, not update previously untouched files.
[12:50] <minghua> StevenK: worse.  the template debian/rules from dh-make gives a *conditional* dependence on config.{sub,guess}
[12:50] <StevenK> Right.
[12:50] <StevenK> The dh-make author doesn't live that far from here ....
[12:50] <minghua> lol.  StevenK, maybe a linda check for this?
[12:51] <StevenK> I say, fix debian/rules so that build depends on config.{sub,guess}, not clean.
[12:51] <dholbach> StevenK: poke him... he never got back to me for a patch to make dh-make use lsb-release :)
[12:51] <StevenK> Not right now. Linda is in disgrace.
[12:51] <siretart> StevenK: do you think conditionally updating config.{sub,guess} in clean warrants a wishlist bug in debian bts?
[12:51] <StevenK> siretart: I personally think it warrants an important bug in the BTS.
[12:52] <siretart> oh.
[12:52] <StevenK> dholbach: Craig is really busy IRL.
[12:52] <dholbach> yeah, i can imagine
[12:52] <StevenK> I haven't spoken to him in quite a while.
[12:52] <janimo> raphink, pipe the results to head -n 1
[12:52] <dholbach> that's why i put the smiley :)
[12:52] <dholbach> i'm not really angry
[12:52] <siretart> there is really an awful long list of packages doing this. THIS would be a really HUGE mass file of bugs
[12:52] <raphink> janimo: how do I do that?
[12:53] <janimo> sed bla bla |head -n 1
[12:53] <StevenK> siretart: Well, it's my personal opinion. You could always mail -devel and ask for rough concensus.
[12:53] <raphink> thanks
[12:53] <raphink> thanks much janimo :)
[12:53] <janimo> raphink, google for gnu software toolbox fo a good read
[12:54] <StevenK> In the mean time, I'm dragging myself off to bed.
[12:54] <raphink> ok
[12:54] <raphink> :)
[12:54] <StevenK> <- Still getting over sitting on IRC from 1am to 3am due to the CC meeting.
[12:55] <siretart> StevenK: perhaps I should really start a discussion on debian-devel about this. I want to hear some other opinions first
[12:55] <minghua> siretart: I agree with StevenK that before mass-bug-filing asking debian-devel is a must
[12:55] <siretart> minghua: err, obviously
[12:56] <minghua> siretart: I would love to see you starting such a discussion on d-devel ;-)
[01:03] <zakame> evening all :D
[01:23] <zakame> er, how do I force a rebuild on the buildds? or do I upload again?
[01:24] <crimsun> uploading a newer revision automatically does that as long as nothing's in dep-wait
[01:24] <crimsun> otherwise you can ask one of the ftp admins to perform a give-back
[01:25] <crimsun> lamont or infinity usually (since elmo's really busy)
[01:25] <zakame> crimsun: oooh! thanks! :D
[01:25] <zakame> hi bmonty :)
[01:25] <bmonty> hi zakame
[01:36] <zakame> dholbach: just got your mail, thanks! :)
[01:36] <dholbach> :)
[01:37] <crimsun> :)
[01:45] <dholbach> please make ubuntu-science@ unmoderated, thanks
[01:52] <Kyral> Morning MOTU
[01:52] <siretart> hi Kyral !
[01:55] <Kyral> ..I'm still banned from the Forums channel, this is going on too long
[01:55] <\sh> dholbach: close the bug when bakery is compiled :)
[01:55] <crimsun> Kyral: ugliness.
[01:55] <\sh> Kyral: you don't need the forums
[01:55] <Kyral> \sh: I don't
[01:55] <Kyral> but other people DO need my help
[01:56] <\sh> Kyral: they should subscribe to MLs
[01:56] <dholbach> \sh: if it doesnt build that's another bug ;)
[01:58] <siretart> I tend to agree with dholbach
[02:00] <crimsun> crap, I need to file merge bugs
[02:13] <shawarma> If a package doesn't need any changes (i.e. the only thing in a potential debdiff is the changelog entries from previous ubuntu-revisions).. then what? Should I just upload that debdiff, or can I do something special so that it will happen automatically henceforth? That would be easier for everyone, I guess.
[02:13] <shawarma> I mean when merging, of course.
[02:13] <dholbach> shawarma: you mean debian has all the changes, we once made?
[02:14] <shawarma> dholbach: Right.
[02:14] <dholbach> shawarma: we sync it
[02:14] <dholbach> we just get the debian version in
[02:14] <dholbach> we tell our ftpmaster to get it from debian and that it's ok to throw away our changes
[02:14] <shawarma> But then the changelog will be missing the previous ubuntu-revisoions?
[02:14] <dholbach> that's ok
[02:15] <shawarma> I see. So if that's the case I let elmo know?
[02:16] <dholbach> yep
[02:17] <shawarma> Great. I'm not sure it it's the case yet, I just wanted to know.
[02:17] <dholbach> cool
[02:18] <dholbach> that's the preferred situation
[02:18] <dholbach> no delta, we get free auto-syncs
[02:18] <shawarma> Exactyly. Everybody wins.
[02:19] <shawarma> BTW what are all these C++ allocator rebuilds about?
[02:19] <siretart> well, we loose the credits in the changelogs, but this way we have a package less to merge with debian
[02:20] <crimsun> the amount of headache we save vastly overweighs any credit we receive ;)
[02:20] <crimsun> shawarma: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-November/000016.html
[02:21] <shawarma> Yes. Still, I think the changelog entries could automagically be merged.. I don't care enough about it to implement it, though. :-)
[02:21] <dholbach> maybe we'll have some bzr-launchpad-magic for that in the future
[02:21] <dholbach> who knows
[02:22] <shawarma> crimsun: The -c2 suffix was due to an ABI change, right? It's not just the c2-thing we're undoing, right?
[02:24] <zakame> er we're not undoing anything actually :) in fact some c2 packages also need to be renamed as c2a
[02:24] <shawarma> zakame: Good. That's what I though.
[02:27] <zakame> shawarma: best is to consult doko's list in his message in devel, and the debian bts
[02:28] <dholbach> new f-spot
[02:49] <Gloubiboulga> a package which provides libfoo.so.x.y should absolutely be named libfoox.y ?
[02:57] <mbreit> hi guys
[02:57] <crimsun> Gloubiboulga: absolutely? no.
[02:57] <crimsun> 'lo mbreit
[02:57] <Gloubiboulga> but recommended crimsun ?
[02:59] <crimsun> Gloubiboulga: http://www.debian.org/doc/debian-policy/ch-sharedlibs.html
[03:00] <zakame> Gloubiboulga: you could read dancer's library packaging guide at http://www.netfort.gr.jp/~dancer/column/libpkg-guide/libpkg-guide.html
[03:01] <Gloubiboulga> thanks guys
[03:07] <shawarma> Can I pursuade one of you MOTU's to look at lablgtkmathview and see if you agree that it should just be synced? I'm not a MOTU, so if I just tell elmo to sync it, he'll probably ask one of you guys anyway. ;-)
[03:11] <lamont-away> can't build non-PIC, link the .a, then not remove the .o's before trying to make the .so (and thereby reuse the non-PIC .o files)
[03:11] <seth_k> Seveas, pong
[03:12] <Seveas> seth_k, your cloak is ubunt/member/sethkinast, underscores are not possible in cloaks
[03:13] <Seveas> you should register the nickname sethkinast and link it to seth_k
[03:14] <seth_k> Seveas, all right. Thanks for the heads-up
[03:15] <Seveas> hmm, sethkinast is already registered, talk to freenode staff if you don't have the password anymore
[03:15] <sethkinast> nope, I'm good, I had it once upon a time
[03:15] <Seveas> ok :)
[03:16] <sethkinast> thanks :)
[03:16] <Seveas> np
[03:28] <zakame> wb dholbach
[03:28] <dholbach> re :)
[03:30] <shawarma> Is there a procedure for non-MOTUs for letting someone know that a package should be synced instead of merged?
[03:31] <zakame> yes, in lpbugs
[03:32] <shawarma> zakame: really? Oh, I'll just use that then. Thanks.
[03:33] <zakame> shawarma: actually, use lpbugs to send the sync message, and then ping a MOTU here. :)
[03:34] <shawarma> zakame: I will. Thanks.
[03:36] <zakame> YAY! nip2's up!
[03:43] <shawarma> How often does MoM run?
[03:45] <shawarma> I'm wondering because the REPORTS for both libbonobomm1.3 and orbit2cpp lists older versions than in sid.
[03:46] <zakame> that's why I also look at the MoM logs too so I can investigate:-)
[03:48] <shawarma> Heh.. If I ask for a package to be synced it'll be the one i sid that gets synced, right? Not the one listen in the REPORT file?
[03:49] <zakame> usually, but not always
[03:53] <shawarma> Ok.
[04:02] <zakame> harhar I forgot to s/unstable/dapper/ :(
[04:03] <viviersf> do you guys think that openoffice 2 stable will go into the backports ?
[04:08] <crimsun> if you don't request it on the backports mailing list, no
[04:15] <siretart> viviersf: did you try to build it in breezy?
[04:16] <viviersf> no
[04:16] <viviersf> thats why im asking
[04:16] <siretart> try it, if it builds, it makes a good candidate
[04:16] <siretart> if not, then not
[04:36] <shawarma> Do you guys use pbuilder to build stuff?
[04:37] <zakame> yep, when I can I use pdebuild
[04:37] <Kyral> pbuilder OWNS
[04:37] <zakame> (though with dialup it's really INSANE) :p
[04:37] <Kyral> I mean I <3 pbuilder :D
[04:37] <Kyral> zakame: this is why you don't wipe out the package cache(s)
[04:37] <shawarma> Have you just configured it for dapper or do you somehow use it for both dapper and breezy?
[04:38] <zakame> Kyral: of course I don't, I even reuse them ;)
[04:38] <Kyral> shawarma: I keep 5 PBuilders
[04:38] <shawarma> Kyral: How so?
[04:38] <jamessan|work> --basetgz
[04:38] <Kyral> Eh, different methods, which will go into the new packaging guide
[04:39] <Kyral> yah basically I keep 5 configs
[04:39] <zakame> heh pbuilder-inside-chroot
[04:40] <shawarma> That was my idea too, but apparantly --configfile doesn't work as I expected.
[04:41] <shawarma> I created a pbuilder-dapper configfile which points to a different basetgz, and when I used pbuilder build blah.dsc --configfile /full/path/to/pbuilder-dapper, it still used the default basetgz.
[04:44] <zakame> hello Ubugtu
[04:44] <Kyral> its a bot...
[04:45] <zakame> I know, but the name's kuyut :))
[04:45] <Kyral> lol
[04:53] <shawarma> wtf...
[04:53] <shawarma> stupid pbuilder piece of..
[04:53] <Gloubiboulga> I've just sent libflu2.14 on REVU
[04:54] <shawarma> I do this: "pbuilder build whatever.dsc --basetgz /some/path/base.tgz"
[04:54] <Gloubiboulga> Could anyone have a look at it ?
[04:54] <shawarma> And what does pbuilder say?
[04:54] <siretart> libflu... sound dangerous
[04:54] <shawarma>  -> extracting base tarball [/var/cache/pbuilder/base.tgz] 
[04:54] <shawarma> Wtf?
[04:55] <jamessan|work> shawarma: "pbuilder --basetgz /some/path/base.tgz build whatever.dsc"
[04:55] <jamessan|work> I think
[04:55] <Gloubiboulga> siretart, :)
[04:55] <jamessan|work> hrm, maybe not
[04:55] <shawarma> Nope.
[04:56] <jamessan|work> shawarma: then it probably belongs after build instead of after the dsc file
[04:56] <shawarma> jamessan|work: Oh... I'll try.
[04:56] <Gloubiboulga> siretart, I'm working on libflu_vaccine too ;)
[04:57] <shawarma> jamessan|work: Hey! That works!
[04:57] <shawarma> jamessan|work: Thanks!
[04:57] <jamessan|work> shawarma: good! was running out of places to stick the option  :)
[04:58] <shawarma> jamessan|work: Exactly. It's kind of weird that it's that anal about where I put the options.
[04:59] <jamessan|work> shawarma: if you're used to newer (in the overall scheme of things) programs that allow mixing of arguments and options
[04:59] <zakame> err what does this mean? universe/misc/lucene_1.4.3-9ubuntu1: Building by buildd+vernadsky [optional:out-of-date] 
[05:00] <zakame> (I'm looking at the buildLogs investigating lucene's failure :(
[05:01] <shawarma> jamessan|work: Still, normally, if the position matters, you put them either at the end or the beginning, but pbuilder wants them in between stuff.
[05:01] <jamessan|work> shawarma: not really. the command is "pbuilder build", then you specify options and arguments
[05:02] <shawarma> jamessan|work: I suppose.
[05:03] <shawarma> Anyhow, it's happily building now. Thanks for your insight. :-D
[05:04] <jamessan|work> :)
[05:04] <Gloubiboulga> ooffice2 doesn't start correctly :/
[05:06] <seth_k> ack
[05:07] <seth_k> that new OO2 upgrade eats computers
[05:07] <seth_k> you're right
[05:08] <Gloubiboulga> it's such a huge package to build
[05:21] <\sh> wow
[05:22] <\sh> someone is still using my kmyirc client
[05:22] <\sh> Return Code not understood or not implemented. Please send this to
[05:22] <\sh> sh@sourcecode.deReturn Code: 333
[05:22] <\sh> hehe
[05:22] <\sh> I think I have to code further more for this client
[05:22] <azeem> you should make up scary sounding error codes
[05:23] <\sh> I wonder what 333 is ... because it wasn't in the rfc1492
[05:51] <dredg> isn't rfc1492 a briding rfc?
[05:51] <JohnnyMast> darn you guys have been more bussy then ever, 52 status emails
[05:51] <dredg> bridging*
[05:51] <dredg> can't remember details, know it involves pppoe
[05:55] <dredg> nope, 1492 is tacacs
[07:16] <JohnnyMast> wb \sh
[07:17] <\sh> re
[07:17] <\sh> hmm...if I set pbuilder create --binary-arch i386 on an amd64...it will create an i386 pbuilder env for me right?
[07:18] <JohnnyMast> :| i dont know
[07:19] <\sh> ogra: ping :)
[07:21] <ogra> \sh: pong
[07:21] <\sh> ogra: I want to setup a pbuilder env on amd64 but for i386
[07:21] <ogra> i never did that
[07:22] <\sh> ogra: pbuilder --binary-arch 386?
[07:22] <ogra> but its surely possible :)
[07:22] <\sh> i'll ask on -devel then :)
[07:22] <\sh> btw...amd64 is running :)
[07:23] <slomo_> \sh: congrats :)
[07:23] <siretart> \sh: your new machine?
[07:23] <\sh> siretart: yepp
[07:23] <\sh> siretart: just a sempron64 but at least 64 bit
[07:24] <siretart> :)
[07:29] <\sh> well I had some problems with the benq dvd rw thing...it doesn't read our medias
[07:29] <\sh> stops at e2fsprogs udeb
[07:30] <\sh> reproducable..but i think it's a benq problem...with a sun 24x cdrom it worked :)
[07:33] <dholbach> slomo_, ajmitch, tseng: what about providing libbeagle from the source package?
[07:46] <JohnnyMast> libwiki-perl is broken i think
[07:55] <\sh> libwiki-perl is unmet dep right?
[07:55] <\sh> it needs a libwiki package which is not in ubuntu
[07:57] <JohnnyMast> zakame >
[07:57] <JohnnyMast> ?
[07:58] <JohnnyMast> zakame, ping
[08:04] <ajmitch> morning
[08:04] <JohnnyMast> morning aj
[08:12] <shawarma> Is it OK if I ask elmo to sync libgtkmm2.0 ?
[08:12] <shawarma> Or should a MOTU do it?
[08:12] <shawarma> geez, I'm getting tired of bugging you guys all the time. :-)
[08:13] <\sh> shawarma: apply for a motuship :)
[08:14] <shawarma> \sh: I will in due time. I haven't really felt I was ready, but I thing I'm getting there
[08:15] <\sh> ok...lets leave it with amd64...the documentation about creating an i386 pbuilder on amd64 is wrong...
[08:18] <\sh> switching laptops
[08:22] <Kyral> hey LJ
[08:22] <Kyral> I'm doing something right up your alley
[08:23] <Kyral> my last Chem Post-Lab of the semester :P
[08:23] <LaserJock> Kyral: well, I'm doing something right up your alley. Trying to figure out irssi & screen ;-)
[08:23] <Hieronymus> LaserJock: it's easy
[08:23] <ajmitch> heh
[08:23] <Kyral> lol I can do Irssi
[08:23] <Kyral> not screen yet
[08:24] <Kyral> I <3 Irssi
[08:24] <Kyral> it tab completes EVERYTHING!
[08:24] <Kyral> but I cannot get the dicttabcomplete working
[08:24] <azeem> the zsh of the irc clients
[08:25] <LaserJock> well, is there a way to see if people are away or not? I really liked that in xchat
[08:25] <azeem> you /whois them
[08:25] <Kyral> uhh..look in the scripts package
[08:25] <azeem> unless it's \sh, then you look at his nick
[08:25] <\sh> or nafallo..he's using dircproxy as well :)
[08:26] <azeem> there is screen_away.pl, btw
[08:26] <azeem> that rocks beyond belief
[08:26] <Kyral> says /usr/share/dict/words isnt there
[08:26] <LaserJock> hmm, I see this is going to be fun. I just got to dig into it more.
[08:26] <shawarma> Kyral: well, is it?
[08:26] <crimsun> I normally set away, because I use irssi's proxy mode
[08:26] <Kyral> its a broken symlink
[08:27] <Gloubiboulga> I've got a problem with lpbugs.py :(
[08:27] <shawarma> Kyral: heh.. no wonder then. Install wenglish or whatever.
[08:27] <Gloubiboulga> I can't send anything
[08:27] <Kyral> Do I need to install Ispell?
[08:27] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: speak up :)
[08:28] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: means? what type of mail sending do you have setup?
[08:28] <Gloubiboulga> I've installed sendmail and mailx but nothing happens
[08:28] <shawarma> Kyral: no
[08:28] <Kyral> hmm
[08:28] <Kyral> lets try this...
[08:29] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: what says the logfile of sendmail?
[08:29] <Gloubiboulga> \sh, I try to send a new merge mail
[08:29] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: well...actually use postfix...it's easier and works
[08:29] <Gloubiboulga> \sh, nothing...
[08:29] <Gloubiboulga> ok
[08:29] <Gloubiboulga> I'll try with postfix
[08:29] <shawarma> So.. irssi is really the shit?
[08:29] <Kyral> hmm
[08:29] <Kyral> yah it is
[08:30] <ivoks> shawarma: ++
[08:30] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: u need the /usr/bin/mail programm which is normally in mailx
[08:30] <\sh> or sendmail
[08:30] <shawarma> Gloubiboulga: or use smtp, of course.
[08:30] <Gloubiboulga> it's not in sendmail, but in mailx (installed)
[08:30] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: smtp is the best way actually
[08:30] <Kyral> it only seems to work only with some words
[08:30] <ivoks> hi guys... sorry for not being here :{
[08:31] <Kyral> and takes the Nicks before the tab complete
[08:31] <Gloubiboulga> well, I will follow your great advices and try this with smtp
[08:31] <\sh> Gloubiboulga: you do have a smtp relay server at your isp?
[08:32] <Gloubiboulga> I think so
[08:34] <crimsun> ivoks: no sweat
[08:34] <ivoks> crimsun: eh...
[08:35] <ivoks> this stale state will last for a month more...
[08:35] <ivoks> i'm moving from home to my flat
[08:35] <shawarma> ivoks: Cool. Congrats.
[08:35] <crimsun> ivoks: great, there will be plenty of bugs to squash still :)
[08:36] <ivoks> eh... thanks, i guess :)
[08:36] <\sh> ok...lets burn this sempron64
[08:38] <ivoks> on the other hand.. i have some great news :)
[08:38] <\sh> ivoks: you are pregnant?
[08:38] <ivoks> :)
[08:38] <\sh> serious?
[08:39] <\sh> are you becoming a father?
[08:39] <\sh> congrats :)
[08:39] <crimsun> congrats!
[08:39] <bojan> hi
[08:39] <\sh> I don't even know if it's right ,)
[08:39] <ajmitch> hehe
[08:39] <ivoks> i'll become grandpa with \sh around :)
[08:39] <crimsun> haha
[08:39] <Kyral> lol
[08:39] <\sh> hehehe
[08:39] <ajmitch> \sh: too much speculation ;)
[08:40] <ajmitch> sigh, gaim just died
[08:40] <\sh> ajmitch: rumours are good :)
[08:40] <ivoks> no... croatiafilm (croatia movie company) is doing...
[08:40] <ivoks> uhm... my english is rusty :(
[08:40] <\sh> porn?
[08:40] <ivoks> wait, i'll come up with a word... :)
[08:40] <\sh> hehehe
[08:40] <ivoks> prize contest
[08:40] <shawarma> ivoks: Can you sketch it in ascii art?
[08:41] <ivoks> and 10 computers are prizes
[08:41] <ivoks> on all ubuntu is OS :)
[08:41] <\sh> i won already..
[08:41] <crimsun> excellent
[08:41] <ivoks> not much, but something i was working on last week
[08:45] <siretart> sorry german: http://www.pro-linux.de/cgi-bin/NB2/nb2.cgi?show.8998.7010..
[08:45] <siretart> why do they install warty instead of breezy?
[08:45] <ivoks> i heard about that...
[08:45] <ivoks> it's even topic on croatians linux news group
[08:45] <shawarma> ivoks: i've heard of german too..
[08:46] <ogra> there is an english story about it too ... he link was posted to edubuntu-devel last weekend ...
[08:46] <shawarma> ivoks: Sounds like myth, though.
[08:46] <bojan> there are croatin linux news groups?
[08:46] <ivoks> shawarma: it isn't a myth
[08:46] <ivoks> bojan: yes, hr.comp.os.linux
[08:46] <bojan> cool
[08:46] <\sh> siretart: they just got the 5000 warty shipits?
[08:47] <ivoks> that's odd, considering warty won't last for long :/
[08:47] <shawarma> ivoks: So German is an actual language? Who would have thought it..
[08:47] <ogra> shawarma: i held a talk about edubuntu on saturady at linuxtage essen, there is a lot of interest in ubuntu/edubuntu in educational areas in germany
[08:47] <ivoks> shawarma: ?
[08:48] <shawarma> ivoks: Never mind. I was attempting to make a joke. It made myself laugh, so you're the ones missing out. :-D
[08:48] <shawarma> I don't get much sleep these days.. :-)
[08:48] <ivoks> shawarma: i'm too tired for joks these days...
[08:48] <shawarma> It doesn't take a lot to make me laugh.
[08:48] <Gloubiboulga> shawarma, good joke, really
[08:49] <dholbach> good night everybody
[08:49] <ivoks> dholbach: night
[08:49] <JohnnyMast> good night
[08:49] <ajmitch> night dholbach
[08:49] <herve> hello
[08:49] <ivoks> hi herve
[08:49] <herve> and good night :-)
[08:49] <herve> hey ivoks
[08:50] <LaserJock> goodnight dholbach
[08:50] <shawarma> Hm... Let's take this irssi thing for a spin.
[08:51] <ivoks> shawarma: irssi rulez :)
[08:51] <shawarma> Hmm... It doesn't look too different form bitchx..
[08:52] <crimsun> it just sucks less in more obvious ways.
[08:52] <crimsun> (my $0.02)
[08:52] <ivoks> :)
[08:53] <ivoks> my first laugh today :/
[08:53] <shawarma> What does it do the bitchx didn't?
[08:54] <ivoks> i like channel handling
[08:54] <crimsun> shawarma: proxy mode for one, which is my favorite
[08:54] <\sh> what is a proxy mode?
[08:54] <shawarma> crimsun: How?
[08:55] <\sh> crimsun: u mean behaving like dircproxy? you can connect to it?
[08:56] <crimsun> \sh: absolutely. I use ssh tunneling to connect to this irssi session.
[08:56] <\sh> crimsun: cool
[08:57] <crimsun> shawarma: http://www.irssi.org/?page=docs&doc=proxy
[08:58] <crimsun> shawarma: another nice thing is the auto identification
[08:58] <crimsun> shawarma: it's also a lot more graceful about dealing with badly behaving ircds
[08:59] <crimsun> back later, lectures.
[09:04] <shawarma> When's the next techboard meeting? The topic in #u-meeting doesn't say nor does the wiki.
[09:05] <shawarma> ...and I don't remember the schedule.
[09:08] <\sh> shawarma: next tuesday i think..and on the fridge is a calendar
[09:08] <shawarma> \sh: Yup. Without any techboard meetings on it..
[09:08] <shawarma> :-)
[09:09] <\sh> kewl
[09:09] <\sh> ping jdub to fix it :)
[09:09] <shawarma> Hey, irssi puts timestamps on everything. Sweet.
[09:09] <shawarma> Hey, and I like the way it handles /msg.
[09:09] <Amaranth> what happens when something is backported, has a security problem, but the fixed package in dapper no longer cleanly backports?
[09:10] <\sh> woooohoooo...first upload from this amd box
[09:10] <shawarma> Hey, I can start three sentences the same way.
[09:10] <\sh> Amaranth: well...shit happens...that is one of the things, we are waiting for
[09:11] <Amaranth> waiting for? as a reason to push for backports to shut down or to push for source changes in backports?
[09:11] <ajmitch> jdong would love it if backports shut down ;)
[09:12] <\sh> Amaranth: no...not to shut down backports..but to have an example now what process we have to set up
[09:12] <\sh> Amaranth: ask pitti and elmo how to proceed
[09:12] <Amaranth> you could force it ;)
[09:13] <\sh> if its really serious, there should be a way
[09:13] <\sh> Amaranth: why should I do it?
[09:13] <\sh> Amaranth: other question..what fails with the new package?
[09:14] <Amaranth> there isn't an example of this yet
[09:14] <\sh> Amaranth: and pushing "source changes into backports" is no solution...most of the guys in the backports team don't even have upload rights, neither are they members..
[09:14] <Amaranth> but i believe the vlc package in dapper doesn't build anymore on breezy but an older one got backported
[09:15] <\sh> Amaranth: older one means? the version which was backported was already in dapper and got somehow updated?
[09:15] <ogra> \sh: most of the guys ???
[09:15] <ogra> there is only Mez
[09:15] <ogra> wo disappeared silently
[09:16] <\sh> ogra: well..that's what I meant..and the others who are testing the compilation of dapper packages into breezy aren't members
[09:16] <\sh> or whatever...guys from the street
[09:16] <shawarma> *G*
[09:16] <ogra> yup
[09:16] <Amaranth> \sh: a version that was in dapper got backported, a new version got uploaded to dapper which doesn't backport anymore
[09:16] <Amaranth> \sh: i'm almost positive it was vlc
[09:17] <\sh> Amaranth: hmm...but why it can't be backported anymore? (the new version)
[09:17] <\sh> Amaranth: build-deps or deps?
[09:17] <Amaranth> \sh: I don't know the details, exactly.
[09:18] <\sh> Amaranth: please check then...we have to know exactly why it fails ... then we can think about a solution somehow..I'll try to reach pitti and/or elmo and ask them how to proceed, ok?
[09:19] <Amaranth> will do
[09:20] <\sh> Amaranth: rock :)
[09:32] <Amaranth> \sh: E: Build-Depends dependency for vlc cannot be satisfied because the package libdvbpsi4-dev cannot be found
[09:33] <Amaranth> and libflac-dev (>= 1.1.2-3) appearently
[09:33] <Kyral> isn't libdvbpsi going through a transition now>
[09:33] <Amaranth> Kyral: talking about backports
[09:33] <Kyral> ah
[09:33] <Amaranth> Kyral: soname change in $RANDOMLIB isn't a "transition" :P
[09:34] <Kyral> lol
[09:34] <Amaranth> only large things like X, gcc, etc
[09:34] <\sh> Amaranth: hmm...libdvbpsi4-dev doesn't exist in breezy..so it can be backported before a new upload
[09:34] <\sh> s/can/could
[09:34] <\sh>  /
[09:34] <Amaranth> \sh: and libflac?
[09:35] <\sh> libflach is there but in version 1.1.2-1ubuntu2
[09:35] <\sh> (in breezy(
[09:35] <\sh> )
[09:35] <Amaranth> that's what i mean
[09:35] <\sh> where as libflac 1.1.2-3ubuntu1 is in dapper...also a backport candidate
[09:36] <Amaranth> they can't backport libraries like that
[09:36] <Amaranth> not when lots of things use them
[09:36] <Kyral> This is interesting
[09:37] <Kyral> Guy with a MS Cloak came in asking for Mark's addy
[09:37] <Kyral> its mark@ubuntu.com right?
[09:37] <\sh> with a what?
[09:38] <Amaranth> so if all current versions of vlc have a security issue and a new version is released which gets into dapper backport users are potentially screwed
[09:38] <Kyral> Microsoft hostname cloak
[09:38] <Amaranth> \sh: foo!foo@microsoft/foo
[09:39] <\sh> Amaranth: as I said...if you can backport the libs, which are not vital to gnome, gtk, kde or whatever is in main...they can be backported
[09:39] <\sh> Amaranth: if not...as I said...shit happens
[09:39] <Amaranth> \sh: I seem to remember that TB meeting deciding that no libraries could be backported.
[09:40] <Amaranth> libdvbpsi4 wouldn'
[09:40] <Amaranth> err, wouldn't be a problem, it doesn't exist in breezy
[09:40] <LaserJock> well, it would be nice to update packages that are realeased unusable.
[09:40] <\sh> Amaranth: libdvbpsi4 could be backported, actually if there are no rdepends but vlc
[09:41] <\sh> where as libflac can't be backported, because it's main and has a lot of vital rdepends
[09:41] <Amaranth> \sh: err, if it doesn't exist at all in breezy it'd be fine to backport it
[09:41] <Kyral> so should I give this guy Mark's addy?
[09:41] <Amaranth> \sh: but libflac couldn't
[09:41] <Amaranth> Kyral: I don't see what it'd hurt.
[09:41] <ajmitch> Kyral: it's plastered all over the place
[09:41] <Kyral> okay its mark@ubuntu.com right?
[09:42] <\sh> "hello this is bill, mark would you like to work for MS? we need another OSS guy how understands the masses"
[09:42] <ajmitch> probably not
[09:42] <\sh> s/how/who/
[09:42] <\sh> "and mark, what do I have to do to fly to the moon"
[09:42] <\sh> *g*
[09:44] <LaserJock> \sh: maybe he could get stranded on Mars?
[09:44] <sivang> Kyral: where was it ?
[09:44] <Kyral> #ubuntu
[09:44] <Kyral> nm he said he had talked with Mark on IRC in the past
[09:44] <\sh> could be a fake as welll
[09:44] <Kyral> I jumped the gun lol
[09:47] <sivang> interesting
[09:47] <ajmitch> ah, drobbins
[09:48] <ajmitch> he was with gentoo, remember?
[09:48] <Kyral> no...
[09:48] <LaserJock> ajmitch: yeah, so sad :(
[09:48] <ajmitch> Kyral: keep up with the news :)
[09:48] <Kyral> lol
[09:48] <Kyral> Its hard in this frozen wasteland I live in
[09:49] <LaserJock> Kyral: he started Gentoo and then went to work fo MS after he got pretty far in debt with Gentoo. Or something like that
[09:49] <Kyral> ah
[09:50] <sivang> ajmitch: I wonder what does he want from mark
[09:50] <\sh> LaserJock: he just wanted a good life for his kids and wife (family in total) which is not bad...but he comes sometimes to #gentoo-dev
[09:50] <Kyral> He said he had a friend who was out of work and he wanted to pass on a resume
[09:51] <LaserJock> \sh: I totally understand his reasoning, I am just sad that it happened.
[09:51] <\sh> LaserJock: why?
[09:51] <\sh> sabdfl tried to hire daniel robbins...
[09:51] <\sh> , too
[09:51] <LaserJock> \sh: It somehow seems like a defeat
[09:52] <\sh> LaserJock: I don't think so...well when you compare MS and Canonical right now, Bill Gates did the same as Mark is doing now with linux...which is not bad, but some people are quite disagreeing with marks ideas or behaviour...
[09:54] <\sh> LaserJock: because we are thinking in terms like "freedom"...but nobody sees that most of the devs even in FOSS need money..and many FOSS devs are doing non-FOSS work in RL
[09:54] <\sh> LaserJock: the problem of MS is, they invented the internet
[09:55] <LaserJock> \sh: I'm just sad that the linux (Gentoo at least) didn't step up a little to provide for him. I didn't even know until he had already been hired by MS
[09:55] <\sh> LaserJock: gentoo has no money at all...
[09:56] <\sh> LaserJock: most of the infrastructure is being sponsored by universities...
[09:56] <LaserJock> \sh: I probably would've donated to a "Save drobbins" campaign '-)
[09:56] <\sh> LaserJock: and some companies who were sponsoring some hardware
[09:56] <\sh> LaserJock: you can't..I think he has two kids now...and a wife...which cost money.
[09:56] <LaserJock> \sh: yeah, I know.
[09:57] <LaserJock> \sh: I just thought it was sad that that is the way it happened. I don't blame it at all.
[09:57] <\sh> and the times of good money for OSS work are over..the people with the money just woke up
[09:59] <minghua> hello everyone
[09:59] <\sh> and there are other people like mark, who are spreading quite a lot of money, which burns right now, towards FOSS, but he has not everywhere a good reputation, because he's doing this. Which I can sometimes understand, but sometimes not, because pushing FOSS to the masses cost money and it's not bad or evil at all.
[10:00] <LaserJock> hi minghua
[10:00] <\sh> that's my opinion
[10:00] <LaserJock> \sh: I agree
[10:01] <\sh> LaserJock: there is only one real big problem...
[10:02] <\sh> LaserJock: "how the ubuntu community is behaving".
[10:03] <Hieronymus> \sh: how is it behaving?
[10:04] <\sh> LaserJock: when we are representing ubuntu on fairs e.g., and we are throwing away e.g. the ship it cds...and coming to those events like "hey, look here, we are the best the biggest the richest community ever"...other projects like gentoo will look at us, like bastards...because gentoo e.g. pays for their cds and they are selling them to earn the costs...
[10:05] <\sh> LaserJock: and sorry to say..it just happened..and this behaviour I don't like...because I know how hard it is to burn,press, create the material for fairs, as an example..and I don't want to be seen as a asshole towards others.
[10:08] <LaserJock> \sh: makes sense
[10:15] <sivang> \sh: I don't think we should be sorry for having mark as someone who backs up the distro. It's a free world with free will, Mark said he could donate money to Debian, but then thinking of it - he realized it might be better off like this. I don't think he has went wrong IMHO :-)
[10:17] <sivang> \sh: btw, what do you mean "times of good money for OSS work are over" - has there a "good time" for this before?
[10:17] <\sh> sivang: I didn't say we should be sorry...I said, we should have an eye how the community behaves. We are in the middle of a commercial environment which gives us more then the others have, and a free distro and a free community, but this community raise and falls with its backup.
[10:17] <\sh> sivang: yes :) there were good times :)
[10:17] <sivang> \sh: the please, I'm probably yoo ignorant - was this when Bob Young was in RedHat? :)
[10:17] <sivang> s/yoo/yoo/
[10:17] <sivang> err
[10:18] <sivang> s/yoo/too/
[10:18] <\sh> sivang: no..it was, when all business angels and risk capital companies were pushing money into companies with ideas but no products
[10:19] <sivang> \sh: ah , well, I guess in Israel this has passed on FOSS, even now FOSS Is something most of the users don't even know about :-(
[10:19] <\sh> sivang: when the stock market just explode with all "here opensource there opensource bla"
[10:19] <sivang> \sh: when was this? (as in , what year )
[10:19] <azeem> sivang: shortly before Mark sold Thawte
[10:20] <\sh> sivang: 90ies...1995-1996-1997 1998 and 1999 the market just slowed down...
[10:20] <\sh> sivang: actually in 2000/2001 the market just exploded completly into a big cloud of hot wind :)
[10:21] <sivang> \sh: ok, I witnessed that - but from the POV from here, it wasn't never about FOSS
[10:21] <\sh> sivang: thinking even of "Intershop"...."providing the best ecommerce software ever with opensource tools (perl)"
[10:21] <sivang> \sh: all many one liner ideas the angles spent money on and enver saw sustainability
[10:21] <\sh> sivang: oh...all companies who got the money were doing software business with opensource software...linux everywhere, perl/php etc.
[10:22] <sivang> \sh: when I talked to people about FOSS back then (when I worked in www.attunity.com) they looked a t me like a madman. (it was 2000-2001)
[10:22] <\sh> sivang: no one said something about "we give something back"..actually redhat did somethind and suse too..
[10:22] <ajmitch> now they just think you're crazy
[10:23] <sivang> ajmitch: well, I now work at Zend, server side devision is mostly gentoo, fedora and now some ubuntus :)
[10:24] <sivang> ajmitch: but I'm not even close to working on open source software, we acutally provide only binaries in the products I am responsible for :-/
[10:25] <\sh> sivang: zend is doing "opensource work" as well..despite the fact, they are earning money with the windows side of life :)
[10:25] <sivang> but at least my products doesnt' cost any money, only if you need support then you pay.
[10:25] <sivang> \sh: yes , to my misfortune :-/
[10:25] <\sh> sivang: and with the developers tools :)
[10:26] <sivang> \sh: yes, the whole other line of products cost money.
[10:26] <\sh> sivang: why misfortune? you earn money with it...you survive because there are people who are using windows for putting some faulty php code in their webservers ,)
[10:26] <sivang> hehe
[10:27] <sivang> \sh: I can't seem to understand why I need to support IIS :)
[10:27] <sivang> \sh: why would someone want to use IIS and run php under it??
[10:27] <\sh> sivang: because MS works with "clk" and not "cli" :)
[10:27] <sivang> \sh: what's clk? ,)
[10:27] <\sh> sivang: "click"
[10:27] <\sh> ,)
[10:28] <\sh> but I was suprised to see tab completion integrated into "cmd.exe"...
[10:28] <\sh> only cp and ls are missing :) and rm :)
[10:29] <sivang> yes, well. it's very hard to me to get used to not using ls
[10:29] <sivang> I need to fix my self an "alias"
[10:30] <sivang> at least I get to work with linux, this is to itself admirable in a country so small with FOSS like .il
[10:31] <sivang> \sh: well, misfortunate because up until now I was only responsible for the UNIX version :)
[10:32] <sivang> \sh: and you, you're work is OS neutral ?
[10:32] <\sh> i have to see how I can manage to have xdmcp running on this laptop over wireless..and connect to an xserver on the amd64 now
[10:34] <\sh> sivang: well yes..but many systems are running on windows...our main office os is windows...(exchange etc.) the ISP OS is solaris 8/9, hp openview is running on solaris9, our oracle dbs are running on solaris9...our CAS runs on tru64 (alpha) and some new servers from the other companie who bought us are running suse linux
[10:34] <sivang> ok, I'll get back to trying to wrap libnotify with a python moudle
[10:34] <sivang> \sh: talking about hetrogenous network :)
[10:35] <\sh> sivang: at lycos it was the same...DC was solaris, tru64 and linux....
[10:35] <\sh> sivang: office IT was windows
[10:35] <\sh> sivang: but there was at least one little employee who was running linux on his office machine and had a version of vmware running for exchange :)
[10:36] <sivang> \sh: well, in here office IT is windows as well, but we're allowed to run Linux if we want to. they can't tell us since we're not part of the office IT
[10:36] <sivang> \sh: hehe, I think I know who this is.
[10:36] <sivang> \sh: even Zeev uses windows, btw.
[10:36] <\sh> sivang: tell him I'm not using php anymore..just python :) he sucks ,)
[10:37] <ajmitch> why is fetching packages so slow today? :)
[10:37] <sivang> \sh: OMG, I talked too much again ;)
[10:37] <\sh> ajmitch: uhm? 500kb/s is slow?
[10:37] <ajmitch> 4K/sec for me
[10:37] <ajmitch> I should get up to 200K/sec
[10:37] <\sh> ajmitch: ah NZ highspeed internet :)
[10:37] <sivang> \sh: but he is a canon when it comes to *NIX, really. He is mostly sshing to other *NIX machiens
[10:38] <\sh> sivang: using OSS putty.exe
[10:38] <sivang> \sh: he also has amazing understanding of the kernel :)
[10:38] <sivang> \sh: yes, somethign liek that hehe
[10:38] <\sh> that reminds me..
[10:38] <\sh> ogra_: do you know how far the project "Writing the Kernel in jpython" is ?
[10:39] <sivang> \sh: ????!!!
[10:39] <sivang> reimplementing the kernel in jython? that's one WTF
[10:39] <\sh> sivang: well...we had a incredible idea...we are rewriting the linux kernel in python...but with a jvm beneath to have it running even on embedded devices ,)
[10:39] <Kyral> lol
[10:40] <\sh> -ECRACK
[10:40] <Kyral> Can't you already insert Python into the Kernel code?
[10:40] <sivang> Kyral: nahh, just use parrot instead
[10:40] <\sh> Kyral: hopefully not
[10:40] <\sh> ogra_: do you know how far the project "Writing the Kernel in jpython" is ?
[10:40] <sivang> \sh: well, when parrot CPU is ready, why not?
[10:41] <sivang> (I read there are plans to make a parrot CPU)
[10:41] <ajmitch> \sh: why not ironpython? ;)
[10:41] <\sh> sivang: well...sun sparc cpus are opensourced :) you can rebuild it at home at no costs and no patent fees :)
[10:41] <ajmitch> then you have the joy of using mono
[10:42] <\sh> sivang: thinking about that...we implement some megs of ram inside the cpu core...
[10:42] <sivang> \sh: ah right, I was amazed to find that out when I ordered one for testing the sun builds
[10:42] <sivang> ajmitch: mono doesn't make me feel so good about it, dunno why
[10:42] <sivang> \sh: s/sun/sparc/
[10:42] <ajmitch> and java does?
[10:43] <\sh> sivang: and porting jvm to cpu core instructions...running then python..the bootloader will be in pure java...but the kernel will be written in python...
[10:43] <sivang> ajmitch: no, that's why I said parrot :)
[10:44] <sivang> ajmitch: would say it will require water cooling?
[10:44] <sivang> (I'm not aware of the underlying implementation of parrot, I just know it's one of the fastest engine according to the pERL 6 FAQ)
[10:45] <sivang> \sh: so the kernel will run in python under the jython interpreter?
[10:45] <sivang> \sh: seems much overhead
[10:46] <\sh> sivang: will be a "testscenario" for the worst case..
[10:46] <sivang> lol, or huh?
[10:46] <sivang> :)
[10:46] <\sh> sivang: kernel in VB# with mono vm :)
[10:46] <sivang> \sh: hahahahahHahaha
[10:47] <\sh> "we click building a kernel" part 1 on ibm developerworks :) written by drobbins :)
[10:47] <sivang> hehehehe
[10:47] <sivang> \sh: stop it, I'm all over :)
[10:47] <\sh> sivang: thx to my amd64...
[10:47] <\sh> it burns
[10:47] <ajmitch> sivang: parrot bytecode is unnecessarily complex compared to java or IL
[10:47] <sivang> ajmitch: IL ?
[10:48] <ajmitch> mono/.NET
[10:48] <sivang> ajmitch: does its complexity comes out from it's generality ?
[10:48] <ajmitch> no, just from its design
[10:48] <ajmitch> make an opcode for everything possible ;)
[10:49] <sivang> I see
[10:49] <sivang> but it's talked very highly, from what I read on forums, and well, the perl mongers ;-)
[10:49] <sivang> for performance mainly
[10:49] <sivang> which is weird, in view of what you just informed me :)
[10:49] <ajmitch> oh I'm sure they can make things fast
[10:50] <ajmitch> but I can't imagine it being fast & simple in hardware
[10:50] <sivang> ah I see.
[10:51] <sivang> well, my dear friends, I have to go to sleep, in order to survive myself as \sh described. I wish I could just work on Ubuntu and not try to sneak in some minutes before bed, that are not even enough for having a good and hilarious chat with my community members :)
[10:51] <ajmitch> night :)
[10:52] <\sh> good night sivang
[10:52] <sivang> ajmitch: night,
[10:52] <sivang> \sh: good night !
[10:52] <\sh> because tomorrow I have a training
[10:52] <sivang> \sh: of a new cable device?
[10:52] <sivang> ajmitch: I'm sure you will find something to break
[10:52] <sivang> heh
[10:52] <ajmitch> sure
[10:53] <sivang> \sh: I just hope you don't have to get up in the middle of the night like last time :-)
[10:53] <mhz> hi all. I 'stupidly' deleted an email i got yesterday about packaging training. Could any one help me get to the url. I already wiki for it unsuccessfully
[10:53] <mhz> please?
[10:53] <sivang> mhz: you mean motu-school?
[10:53] <mhz> ohhh, yea!
[10:54] <sivang> renight!
[10:54] <\sh> mhz: linux.blogweb.de
[10:54] <\sh> mhz: read it on the blog :)
[10:54] <mhz> \sh: okis, thx
[10:55] <mhz> BTW, GRAT initiative!
[10:55] <mhz> great
[10:55] <Kyral> lol
[10:55] <mhz> hehehe
[10:55] <mhz> but it does seems many people can't get the wiki idea :(
[10:56] <\sh> mhz: thx
[10:56] <Kyral> Wikis are awesome
[10:57] <JohnnyMast> yep
[10:57] <mhz> \sh: mind if i wiki the info on one of the MOTU pages?
[10:57] <\sh> mhz: if you like, we need a special section for it..announcements and scripts
[10:58] <mhz> oks, count on that
[10:58] <\sh> mhz: rock..thx :)
[10:58] <\sh> make it a subsection of w.u.c/MOTU/
[10:58] <mhz> "i am who I am because of what we all are" (is it too much for one day ?) :D
[10:58] <mhz> sure
[11:00] <Gloubiboulga> good night
[11:00] <mhz> \sh: are you sure subsection is a good idea? It could be, sure. Just wondering if you knew that 'horizontal' layout (everything on the same section level) is easier and faster for wiki engines?
[11:01] <mhz> is less expensive
[11:01] <\sh> mhz: well...it depends on motu :) so it should be under this directory..we wanted to move our pages anyway
[11:01] <mhz> zero killed, then.
[11:01] <mhz> subsection will be
[11:09] <herve> bye
[11:14] <Kyral> uhoh
[11:14] <Kyral> how did an editor war start in #ubuntu
[11:16] <LaserJock> Kyral: somebody said "which is better"?
[11:17] <Kyral> I dunno
[11:17] <Kyral> all I know is that I looked in and suddenly people where shouting "VIM!" "EMACS!"
[11:18] <ajmitch> emacs, obviously
[11:18] <ajmitch> there can be no other
[11:18] <Kyral> Yup :D
[11:18] <\sh> hmmm...
[11:18] <\sh> vimacs
[11:18] <Kyral> Hey it comes with Tetris built in
[11:18] <mhz> emacs and nano :D
[11:19] <Kyral> what can you say about an Editor that has Tetris built in?
[11:19] <LaserJock> I started out with emacs but I am starting to like vim also
[11:19] <Kyral> Meta-X Tetris :D
[11:22] <siretart> slomo_: one of the skin writer has answered. he asked what licenced would be fine for his mplayer skin :)
[11:28] <Kyral> hey robotgeek
[11:28] <robotgeek> Kyral: hey K
[11:28] <robotgeek> i'm on the launchpad wiki :)
[11:28] <\sh> siretart: gpl? cc? bsd?
[11:29] <siretart> \sh: I told him that I prefer for my own licence bsd/mit style, but Artistic or GPL is fine, too
[11:29] <siretart> for my own projects
[11:29] <siretart> that is
[11:30] <siretart> \sh: it is about mplayer-skins
[11:30] <\sh> siretart: well...are the skins only graphics or is it even with code?
[11:30] <siretart> \sh: only grafics and layout description configs, no code in our sense
[11:31] <siretart> \sh: the problem is the lack of ANY copyright statement
[11:31] <siretart> and elmo rejected that
[11:31] <\sh> siretart: CC then :)
[11:31] <siretart> \sh: CC not considered DFSG free
[11:31] <\sh> oh yes..I forgot
[11:32] <\sh> gpl then...bsd/mit is somewhat usable without giving back something
[11:32] <\sh> or he dual license it
[11:33] <siretart> he can license it with whatever he wants. it just has to be 'free' :)
[11:35] <\sh> :)