[12:05] <JohnnyMast> Kyral , ping
[12:05] <siretart> gn8 folks
[12:06] <JohnnyMast> gn8 siretart
[12:09] <sistpoty> hi folks
[12:11] <JohnnyMast> hi !
[12:14] <Kyral> JohnnyMast: sorry was at dinner
[12:14] <JohnnyMast> well
[12:14] <JohnnyMast> ok good excuse :)
[12:15] <JohnnyMast> the mgp (Ubuntu) bug
[12:15] <JohnnyMast> what are you going to do with it ?
[12:15] <Kyral> the what?
[12:15] <JohnnyMast> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/mgp/+bug/3297
[12:15] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3297: mgp puts binaries in /usr/X11R6/bin, which is not in the default $PATH In: mgp (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3297
[12:16] <JohnnyMast> you replyed to it
[12:16] <Kyral> Ah I remember trying to fix it
[12:17] <Kyral> it was hard because of soemthing in the way it was built
[12:17] <JohnnyMast> but failed ?
[12:17] <Kyral> It used the X Build thing
[12:17] <JohnnyMast> hmm well let me see
[12:18] <JohnnyMast> Ubernerd Johnny :)
[12:18] <Kyral> huh?
[12:18] <JohnnyMast> if there is a way to fix it ...
[12:18] <Kyral> There is but at that time I dind't know how
[12:18] <Kyral> for a while I just went around triaging :D
[12:19] <JohnnyMast> :)
[12:19] <JohnnyMast> when i did read your answer it made me laugh
[12:20] <JohnnyMast> well not laugh @ you i mean its almost quote able "Confirmed" lol
[12:20] <sistpoty> Kyral, JohnnyMast: if you actually going to work on the bug, please set it's state to accepted
[12:20] <Kyral> sistpoty: I wasn't so I didn't :P
[12:21] <Kyral> IIRC bddebian said he was....
[12:21] <sistpoty> hehe
[12:21] <JohnnyMast> sistpoty yes yes
[12:21] <Kyral> I recall trying a lot to change it but no avail
[12:24] <LaserJock> anybody know about how many packages in universe have ubuntuX versions?
[12:24] <Kyral> grep the package list for it?
[12:24] <sistpoty> LaserJock: not really, but a rough guess would be 1108
[12:25] <sistpoty> (that's number of entries of the merge list... but some have already been synced, some are yet missing, and some are libstdc++ only)
[12:25] <LaserJock> sistpoty: that's good enough
[12:26] <Kyral> why do you need to know amigo
[12:27] <sistpoty> iirc initial merge count was ~700
[12:27] <LaserJock> Kyral: just trying to explain why there is a lot of work in merging
[12:27] <ogra> because thats the amount of merges we carry around for each release
[12:27] <Kyral> ah
[12:27] <Kyral> some Non-User wondering? :P
[12:27] <LaserJock> no, trying to work on JohnnyMast's wiki page
[12:27] <Kyral> lol
[12:28] <JohnnyMast> ahh thanks !
[12:28] <ogra> sistpoty: the more syncs, the less merges ;)
[12:28] <Kyral> You'll get in next time :D
[12:28] <sistpoty> ogra: sure, and if we hadn't libstdc++ transition, I'd guess we could be down very much :/
[12:28] <ogra> yup
[12:42] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: ok, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
[12:42] <JohnnyMast> ok
[12:43] <JohnnyMast> ok thanks for what you did so far ! :)
[12:43] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Thats good.
[12:43] <TheMuso> I like where that is going.
[12:44] <JohnnyMast> yeah its better then the existing pages
[12:45] <JohnnyMast> my bug fix didnt reach the eyes of a motu yet
[12:47] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: if you need me to do more I can but it's up to you ;-)
[12:47] <JohnnyMast> you can never do enough
[12:47] <JohnnyMast> the same moto as for this place
[12:48] <LaserJock> true
[12:48] <JohnnyMast> because i want to make t this way it goes trough a merge in dtail
[12:48] <JohnnyMast> step by step
[12:48] <JohnnyMast> and every consideration
[12:49] <JohnnyMast> when reading paches and stuff
[12:49] <JohnnyMast> this way the reader know what he has to do and when her doesnt have todo a thing
[12:49] <TheMuso> JohnnyMast: It really does dependon the nature of the package, and what the patches are.
[12:49] <JohnnyMast> true
[12:49] <TheMuso> I don't believe it is really possible to explain about the patches unless you have a simple example to work with.
[12:49] <JohnnyMast> but if you make a dtailed discription you can tell when to leave something out or add something
[12:50] <TheMuso> Not forgetting to check the upstream version as well. i.e in Debian, etc.
[12:50] <sistpoty> imo examples are always a good thing
[12:51] <JohnnyMast> well its more the combi + the considerations
[12:51] <LaserJock> however, it is hard to have a real life example if the merge has already been done
[12:51] <JohnnyMast> thats what will intrest more ppl in helping motu
[12:51] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Very true, sort of what I was trying to say.
[12:52] <JohnnyMast> it will make people know earlyer that its not that hard
[12:54] <TheMuso> JohnnyMast: Unfortunately that is not so true for a number of packages, as some patches that get dropped involve various languages, like C, python, etc. The merger might not know what they are looking for, and the changelog entries alone may not give them enough info.
[12:54] <JohnnyMast> im off guys thanks for the plessent talk
[12:54] <sistpoty> good night JohnnyMast
[12:54] <JohnnyMast> gnite
[12:55] <JohnnyMast> TheMuso you can check the debian patches from the older versions
[12:55] <TheMuso> For example, at the moment I avoid such packages as I don't know C/python/C++ very well at all.
[12:55] <Kyral> dangit xscreensaver is being a pain again
[12:55] <JohnnyMast> could not be so hard
[12:59] <LaserJock> hhmm, can you attache files to the wiki?
[12:59] <JohnnyMast_AFk> yep
[12:59] <JohnnyMast_AFk> type in the src
[12:59] <JohnnyMast_AFk> attachement:somename
[12:59] <JohnnyMast_AFk> press pre-read
[01:00] <JohnnyMast_AFk> and click on the somenamelink
[01:00] <JohnnyMast_AFk> to upload the file
[01:00] <JohnnyMast_AFk> and tada :)
[01:00] <JohnnyMast_AFk> sorry im supposed to be afk
[01:00] <LaserJock> so, we could grab some of the small diffs from MoM and attach them for an example
[01:01] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Yeah. My personal view is we use diffs that are merged/dropped that are only dependancy issues that need resolving. They are the easiest to explain I think.
[01:01] <JohnnyMast_AFk> yep
[01:02] <LaserJock> check out xcdroast on the done list
[01:03] <TheMuso> LaserJock: That had no dropped patches.
[01:03] <LaserJock> true but I don't think that is a problem
[01:03] <TheMuso> What did you have to do to it?
[01:04] <LaserJock> well, I didn't have to do anything, MOM did it for me ;-)
[01:04] <TheMuso> Ah yeah. I had a similar package yesterday.
[01:04] <LaserJock> but it is still a merge
[01:04] <LaserJock> we could present it as a manual merge
[01:04] <TheMuso> Yeah true.
[01:05] <TheMuso> Then you have those packages that MOM does, but can just be a sync anyway, due to Debian implementing ubuntu changes upstream.
[01:05] <LaserJock> and then talk about MOM and dropped patches after the reader understands what a merge is
[01:05] <TheMuso> Good point.
[01:06] <LaserJock> my point with xcdroast is that the diffs are small so we could attach them to the wiki page
[01:08] <TheMuso> Yeah true.
[01:45] <sistpoty> ping ajmitch
[01:47] <ajmitch> what'd I break?
[01:47] <sistpoty> ajmitch: nothing... I wanted to ask for some help to figure out current unstable/dapper versions
[01:47] <ajmitch> aha :)
[01:48] <sistpoty> madison-lite setup is broken on tiber :(
[01:48] <ajmitch> how may I help you?
[01:49] <sistpoty> actually I'm in need of a script, which tells me dapper-version to given sourcepackage name (and same for unstable)... do you happen to have such a thing?
[01:49] <ajmitch> yes, but it's a nasty slow hack at the moment until I rewrite it with python-apt
[01:49] <ajmitch> which I can do this weekend if you want
[01:50] <sistpoty> ajmitch: I need it only to update the merge list, so this will be run only once ;)
[01:50] <ajmitch> oh right
[01:50] <ajmitch> my script does comparisons for every package, if that's what you need?
[01:50] <ajmitch> but I'm not sure if it's accurate
[01:51] <ajmitch> it gives http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/merges as output
[01:52] <sistpoty> wow, that's a cool bonus... but actually I plan to import keybuks logs into the merge list at first
[01:52] <sistpoty> and for this, I need to reset done merges to new, if the current unstable version is higher than the dapper version (at least that's the plan)
[01:53] <sistpoty> (and I plan to add version numbers for dapper/unstable to the merge list, at least within the DB)
[01:53] <ajmitch> ok
[01:54] <ajmitch> http://ajmitch.meta.net.nz/debuild/ubuntu/merge-tool/current/all.list is the full list actually
[01:54] <ajmitch> it only printed output when there were version differences
[01:54] <ajmitch> and the 'package is missing' is inaccurate also
[01:55] <ajmitch> let me get the script..
[01:55] <sistpoty> wow, this is cool... I guess once keybuks logs are in the db I'll feed this into the merge-list as well ;)
[01:57] <sistpoty> ajmitch: don't push too much work into it... I've seen that siretart did s.th. cool for revu2 (revu-apt/revu-aptcache) which might do the trick as well
[01:57] <ajmitch> bzr pull isn't doing much
[01:57] <sistpoty> hehe, k
[01:57] <ajmitch> yeah, my scripts are fairly worthless & superseded by others' work
[01:58] <sistpoty> don't say so... for revu-apt(cache) I would still need some regex magic ;)
[01:59] <ajmitch> looks like it was
[01:59] <ajmitch> how annoying
[02:01] <ajmitch> no psyco installed..
[02:01] <ajmitch> ok, running it on tiber
[02:01] <ajmitch> we'll see how it goes
[02:03] <sistpoty> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/mergeWebTool/scripts/parseMoMFile.py
[02:03] <sistpoty> I'll need to fill getDapperVersion/getUnstableVersion still...
[02:04] <ajmitch> we'll just merge all these together in one grand crackpile
[02:04] <sistpoty> yeehaa :)
[02:04] <sistpoty> please sync universe from debian
[02:04] <ajmitch> hm?
[02:05] <sistpoty> oh, I thought you mean we merge all packages to one ;)
[02:05] <ajmitch> no, merge all the scripts
[02:05] <sistpoty> :)
[02:05] <ajmitch> ok, almost finished processing
[02:06] <ajmitch> look in /home/ajmitch/scripts/current/merges
[02:06] <zakame> hello all
[02:07] <mhz> zakame: holas
[02:07] <ajmitch> sorted the list now
[02:07] <sistpoty> ajmitch: cool, thx!
[02:08] <ajmitch> output could probably be tidied
[02:08] <ajmitch> but at least it's predicatable
[02:08] <ajmitch> spelling is bad today ;)
[02:08] <sistpoty> hehe
[02:08] <zakame> hi mhz
[02:08] <sistpoty> same for mee
[02:10] <ajmitch> sistpoty: all the nasty stuff is in ~/scripts/srcpkgs2merge.py
[02:10] <ajmitch> it's called 'how not to write python'
[02:11] <sistpoty> hehe
[02:13] <ajmitch> has the source scared you away yet?
[02:15] <sistpoty> no... since I had to correct c++/sql exercises on university, I'm used to much scarier code ;)
[02:16] <ajmitch> haha
[02:16] <sistpoty> *g*
[02:28] <LaserJock> TheMuso: ping?
[02:31] <LaserJock> TheMuso: I started a merging tutorial at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging but I wonder if it is too low-level
[02:46] <sistpoty> yeehaa... pyfribidi is in unstable
[02:48] <sistpoty> wow, and in dapper as well... now that was easy :)
[02:49] <TheMuso> LaserJock: I will have a look.
[02:51] <TheMuso> LaserJock: Perhaps we could suggest adding a deb-src line to one's apt sources.list file in their chroot, etc.
[02:52] <TheMuso> Nice start.
[02:54] <sistpoty> LaserJock: maybe you could add the hint to check BTS/malone for bugs when performing a merge
[02:56] <TheMuso> And something should be added about claiming the merge as something that you are going to work on.
[02:56] <TheMuso> I may have a chance a little later to add something to it.
[02:57] <sistpoty> yep... TheMuso: you might want to check what's on MOTUToMerge
[03:01] <mhz> Has any of you guys seen wiki:PythonEduLab ?
[03:15] <LaserJock> TheMuso: what do you mean by adding deb-src lines in chroots?
[03:16] <sistpoty> LaserJock: I guess he means the easy way of getting source packages from unstable/dapper/younameit
[03:17] <leonel> Hello :  Can I safely use  squirrelmail and  php4  with breezy ?   will they be updated as soon a  security bug is found ?
[03:17] <TheMuso> sistpoty: Yes.
[03:17] <TheMuso> Thats what I was getting at.
[03:17] <LaserJock> sistpoty: that seems like a mabye to much for one wiki page ;-)
[03:18] <sistpoty> LaserJock: yep... but maybe you could refer to a subpage or s.th. like it ;)
[03:18] <Evaso2> hi guys ii doesn't know if could be useful to monitoring this for MOTU: http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/points.html
[03:19] <sistpoty> leonel: yes, they will... but it may last a little longer for bugfixes to arrive than in debian
[03:19] <Evaso2> new debian packages often are not uploaded to unstable untill some of this higghest transitions in testing are solved
[03:20] <Evaso2> so if debian unstable is your source this is a good page to mintoring where help and patch are needed
[03:21] <leonel> sistpoty, so ...  let's say is safer than debian ?
[03:22] <leonel> sistpoty, how the updates get to universe ?
[03:24] <sistpoty> leonel: usually updates get from debian to universe, so I'd consider debian safer than universe
[03:24] <sistpoty> leonel: main however has its own security team, so I don't think this will apply for main
[03:24] <sistpoty> +packages
[03:25] <leonel> sistpoty, if there's a bug  and debian does nothing about it  ubuntu universe either ?
[03:26] <sistpoty> leonel: if we know about it and can fix it, we fix it
[03:26] <Evaso2> leonel: the bug could be reported in the launchpad and could be fixed in ubuntu by the motu team
[03:26] <Evaso2> or the fix could be merged from debian
[03:27] <Evaso2> leonel: depend if we are in a stable or in a development distribution
[03:27] <sistpoty> leonel: the reason I'd consider debian more secure than unstable is, that they have (much) more manpower than we have
[03:27] <sistpoty> s/unstable/universe
[03:28] <leonel> I want to migrate from debian to ubuntu  but  I need packages in debian that are in ubuntu in  universe   and  need   php4  and squirrelmail  among others  that are in universe  that's why this  questions
[03:29] <dholbach> doesnt packages.ubuntu.com know?
[03:30] <Amaranth> security in main is a one man operation, how many people are actively working on it in universe?
[03:30] <sistpoty> leonel: php4/squirrelmail are the exact same packages in universe and in debian(unstable)... so I guess a security fix if in debian would make it really fast to universe
[03:31] <leonel> so basically with universe we depend  on debian
[03:31] <leonel> for security updates
[03:31] <leonel> ?
[03:32] <dholbach> Amaranth: pitti does bits of it too, sometimes one of us realizes, that we need to get a fix from debian - it's no coherent team yet - want to work in the team too?
[03:32] <Evaso2> leonel: remember that packages in unstable go to testing after the grace period and has no rc bugs
[03:32] <Amaranth> dholbach: I don't even have time to work on alacarte anymore. ;/
[03:32] <Amaranth> err, :/
[03:32] <Evaso2> leonel: and testing has security support
[03:32] <Evaso2> leonel: not only stable
[03:33] <sistpoty> leonel: because debian has more manpower, it's more likely that they solve the problem in the first place. but we still can do security updates on are own
[03:33] <sistpoty> s/on are own/on our own/
[03:34] <leonel> sistpoty, Evaso2  thanks  for making me clear  how we are with  ubuntu universe and security
[03:34] <sistpoty> you're welcome
[03:35] <Evaso2> sistpoty: i think that popcon statistical data are similar in ubuntu and debian right?
[03:36] <sistpoty> Evaso2: sorry don't know, but I guess yes
[03:36] <dholbach> popcon.ubuntu.com
[03:37] <Evaso2> imho the problem is to help packages to go from stable into testing for packages with high popcon stats http://bjorn.haxx.se/debian/points.html
[03:38] <Evaso2> so we can have fresh unstable version as source of ubuntu universe packages
[03:39] <whiprush> ajmitch: ping
[03:40] <ajmitch> whiprush: pong
[03:40] <Evaso2> if too many transition in testing are locked maintainer generally upload on experimental wating for is unstable package go into testing
[03:41] <ajmitch> Evaso2: I'm sorry?
[03:41] <whiprush> ajmitch: I am doing a reminder story for your -school session.
[03:41] <ajmitch> whiprush: uh oh
[03:41] <whiprush> Andrew has been packaging for Ubuntu and Debian for over X years, and will be tutoring would-be MOTUs on the finer points of making rock solid packages for our users.
[03:41] <whiprush> help me fill in X.
[03:41] <Evaso2> ajmitch: ?
[03:42] <ajmitch> whiprush: umm, I started debian packaging about 3-4 years ago?
[03:42] <ajmitch> and I'm not giving a howto session
[03:42] <whiprush> ah, good I asked then.
[03:42] <whiprush> fill me in
[03:42] <ajmitch> one sec
[03:42] <whiprush> ah, I see, more of an introduction.
[03:43] <whiprush> I'm reading the announcement at the moment.
[03:43] <whiprush> let me rescope it a bit
[03:43] <ajmitch> an explanation of some of the underlying tools
[03:43] <ajmitch> certainly not a 'do it this way'
[03:43] <ajmitch> we don't want people doing packages the hard way
[03:44] <whiprush> ok
[03:44] <LaserJock> hi Kyral
[03:45] <Kyral> hey
[03:46] <whiprush> ajmitch: intended audience?
[03:47] <ajmitch> umm
[03:48] <whiprush> ok, how does this sound:
[03:48] <whiprush> Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) will be chairing the session "Packaging without debhelper and/or CDBS". Andrew is a Debian Developer and MOTU, and will be focusing on NOT using some of the prepackaged tools to make packages. The intent is to give participants a deeper understanding of lower-level packaging techniques that are useful in any packager's toolkit.
[03:48] <whiprush> ugh, I say packager/packaging too much.
[03:48] <Kyral> Ow...
[03:48] <jsgotangco> hey whiprush
[03:48] <ajmitch> Kamion's suggestion for title -  "a guide to the guts of the Debian packaging toolchain"
[03:48] <whiprush> that sound right?
[03:48] <jsgotangco> are you still in the army?
[03:48] <whiprush> hi jerome!
[03:49] <whiprush> ajmitch: oh, GUTS. good word.
[03:49] <whiprush> jsgotangco: not since 4 years.
[03:49] <whiprush> jsgotangco: My dad scanned a bunch of old pics so I flickr'ed them
[03:50] <jsgotangco> ahhh
[03:50] <jsgotangco> that's why you looked so buff there
[03:50] <whiprush> jsgotangco: I was very skinny at one point.
[03:50] <whiprush> now I'm just a chunky blogger who fanbois ajmitch.
[03:50] <ajmitch> hah
[03:52] <whiprush> Andrew Mitchell (ajmitch) will be chairing the session "Packaging without debhelper and/or CDBS". Andrew is a Debian Developer and MOTU, and will be focusing on the raw guts of the Debian packaging toolchain. The intent is to give participants a deeper understanding of packaging techniques to further educate the pool of budding Ubuntu developers.
[03:52] <whiprush> better?
[03:52] <ajmitch> not quite as raw as packaging without dpkg-dev
[03:52] <jsgotangco> hehe
[03:52] <ajmitch> but looks reasonable I guess
[03:52] <whiprush> don't worry, it'll run thru jdub.
[03:53] <whiprush> he can add spice. :)
[03:53] <ajmitch> hah
[03:54] <mhz> \sh_away: ajmitch: MOTU-school has been wikied http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MOTU/News
[04:01] <jsgotangco> wow the KoreanTeam wiki is full of activity at the moment
[04:01] <whiprush> jsgotangco: heh
[04:01] <whiprush> remember when you could follow everything in the ubuntu universe in 20 minutes?
[04:01] <jsgotangco> i guess i did make an impression
[04:02] <whiprush> did you speak there?
[04:02] <jsgotangco> heh you don't read planet!
[04:02] <whiprush> it was down today
[04:02] <ajmitch> mhz: if you're going to link to my wiki page, I guess I'd better update it
[04:03] <jsgotangco> whiprush: i stayed there for 4 days and represented ubuntu along with other speakers from Xandros and Mozilla
[04:03] <ajmitch> whiprush: dude, jerome is an international speaker
[04:03] <jsgotangco> whiprush: you will like the public phone terminal picture
[04:03] <ajmitch> you should fanboi him on the fridge
[04:03] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: :P
[04:05] <ajmitch> it's great being in the presence of celebrities :)
[04:06] <whiprush> jsgotangco: WOW!
[04:06] <whiprush> that's awesome
[04:06] <whiprush> I'm blogging about razors and you're like, hanging out with Asa.
[04:06] <whiprush> that's awesome!
[04:07] <ajmitch> haha
[04:07] <jsgotangco> whiprush: Asa is like a saner jdub heh
[04:07] <whiprush> I've not met him.
[04:07] <whiprush> He got me into open source though.
[04:07] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: booked your LCA tickets?
[04:07] <whiprush> Back around mozilla milestone 12 or something, he like, explained oss to me, been with it ever since.
[04:08] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: well i'm going back to brisbane next week so i'll check
[04:08] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: you might still be able to get a direct brisbane->dunedin flight
[04:08] <whiprush> jsgotangco: man, that's so awesome.
[04:08] <jsgotangco> whiprush: business class is awesome man
[04:08] <ajmitch> and you would notice the temperature drop :)
[04:08] <whiprush> heh.
[04:09] <ajmitch> 'come to LCA & hear sabdfl speak'
[04:10] <whiprush> jsgotangco: I envy you, I wish I could do more ubuntu talks.
[04:10] <jsgotangco> whiprush: yeah but he hinted he wants to work with ubuntu really...
[04:11] <whiprush> that's excellent.
[04:11] <jsgotangco> it was from asa i learned more about the mozilla branding thing...
[04:11] <jsgotangco> and why we had such a crummy logo for firefox...
[04:11] <whiprush> heh, yeah
[04:12] <ajmitch> and why our patched, slow, broken firefox doesn't have the mozilla name?
[04:12] <jsgotangco> asa's got a big job to do in korea, that country is like 90% IE country
[04:13] <jsgotangco> good thing there is a big local mozilla community
[04:14] <whiprush> did you have lots of people asking questions after your talk?
[04:14] <jsgotangco> people? heck we had the korean IT press!
[04:14] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:15] <whiprush> you're the man.
[04:15] <jsgotangco> but yeah, the language barrier was so hard to overcome though
[04:15] <whiprush> I can imagine.
[04:15] <jsgotangco> we were told that the gov't would file an antitrust suit anytime
[04:15] <jsgotangco> sure enough they did yesterday
[04:15] <jsgotangco> against MS
[04:16] <whiprush> heh.
[04:16] <jsgotangco> oh stop it
[04:16] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:17] <whiprush> "I know Jerome"
[04:17] <whiprush> my new .sig
[04:18] <jsgotangco> gyahhh
[04:34] <sistpoty> args... with updated merge-list (only from keybuks logs, that may still miss s.th.) we're up to 207 merges again (from 130)
[04:37] <sistpoty> tomorrow I will update the merge-list (I just did a local dry-run), so as usual expect some tracebacks ;)
[04:37] <sistpoty> gn8 everyone
[05:52] <bmonty> hi minghua
[05:52] <minghua> hello bmonty
[05:53] <bmonty> minghua: stardict has been synced and built on all arches
[05:53] <minghua> bmonty: great, thanks for checking
[05:53] <minghua> bmonty: I'm going to close the bug
[05:54] <bmonty> minghua: yeah, thats why I was telling you :)
[05:54] <minghua> :-)
[05:56] <ajmitch> yay,n ew printer on the home network to try & get working
[05:56] <bmonty> laser?
[05:57] <ajmitch> yeah
[05:57] <ajmitch> plugge into an apple AP
[05:57] <bmonty> nice, I want to get a laser for the house
[05:57] <LaserJock> hi minghua and bmonty
[05:57] <bmonty> I get used to the lasers at work and then I have to print something on my POS inkjet
[05:57] <bmonty> hi LaserJock
[05:58] <LaserJock> bmonty: I was lucky enough to convince my advisor to get a color laser for the lab
[05:58] <Amaranth> how do i mark someone that i am requesting a specific person to come to the next CC meeting?
[05:58] <Amaranth> just put it on the wiki and contact them so everyone knows?
[05:58] <Amaranth> err, mark somewhere
[05:58] <bmonty> LaserJock: color lasers are a love/hate relationship :)
[05:59] <minghua> hi LaserJock
[05:59] <LaserJock> bmonty: it's sure nice for posters and presentations
[05:59] <bmonty> they make nice printouts, but they kick you in the ass to buy cartridges and fuser kits and etc
[05:59] <LaserJock> bmonty: that's what NSF is for ;-)
[05:59] <bmonty> my office has an older HP color laser that takes about 30 mins to warm up for the first printout in the morning
[05:59] <Amaranth> this is why i have a B&W laser and buy a new ink-jet everytime it's ink runs out
[06:00] <Amaranth> because a new ink-jet printer with ink is cheaper than ink
[06:00] <LaserJock> lol
[06:00] <bmonty> of course my boss forgets that and sends jobs that he needs for his meeting in 15 mins and is upset that the printer has been "Calibrating" for 10 :)
[06:01] <LaserJock> bmonty: we had one of those down the hall and we didn't have a key so we had to ask the boss every time we needed to print something
[06:05] <StevenK> bmonty: HP LaserJet, right?
[06:05] <bmonty> StevenK: yeah
[06:06] <LaserJock> StevenK: right
[06:06] <ajmitch> StevenK: slides built fine :)
[06:06] <StevenK> Whee
[06:06] <ajmitch> sorry about the delay in asking for sync
[06:06] <LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, I think that might of been what we had
[06:06] <StevenK> ajmitch: So, my u.c e-mail doesn't work yet. When you say sign the CoC, do you mean GPG sign and upload to LP?
[06:07] <StevenK> ajmitch: It's cool. I haven't done any merges since the CC and feel guilty.
[06:07] <ajmitch> StevenK: yes, sign & upload
[06:07] <LaserJock> StevenK: I don't think mine is working yet either
[06:07] <LaserJock> StevenK: Kyral too I think
[06:08] <ajmitch> elmo is the one to bug if you're feeling brave
[06:08] <ajmitch> StevenK: ah, you've been doing far more than some of us have :)
[06:09] <StevenK> I'm wondering if my adding a Files section to my xorg config will fix my emacs problems.
[06:10] <StevenK> But I can't find out until I go home.
[06:10] <StevenK> minghua: We uhh, dropped ours while we were moving offices.
[06:10] <StevenK> For about 6 months, there was a big stain of blue toner on the concrete in front of our door.
[06:10] <ajmitch> hehe
[06:11] <LaserJock> StevenK: ours just died with blue toner all over
[06:11] <LaserJock> StevenK: I wonder if it is a common thing
[06:11] <minghua> poor printer :-(
[06:12] <ajmitch> what do people think, should I update checkinstall to close some bugs? ;)
[06:12] <LaserJock> we got a 2550 in our lab now so I'm happy
[06:12] <StevenK> Stressful twenty minutes with two boxes open in front of me, swapping over all manner of hardware.
[06:12] <StevenK> We bought a Xerox color printer. Huge thing.
[06:12] <minghua> ajmitch: I am actually glad that checkinstall is not working in dapper ;-)
[06:12] <ajmitch> StevenK: you killed a box?
[06:13] <StevenK> ajmitch: I bumped the desk it was on, and it powered down, and refused to power back up.
[06:13] <ajmitch> ah
[06:13] <ajmitch> I've seen worse
[06:13] <StevenK> So yes, "killed". :-)
[06:13] <ajmitch> such as being able to smell the smoke from the box 3 days later :)
[06:13] <ajmitch> the box did still work
[06:13] <ajmitch> but the ISA slot was melted
[06:13] <StevenK> ajmitch: I remember going to pull the power cord out of a power supply and seen sparks...
[06:13] <LaserJock> to bad azeem isn't awake. I'm using ghemical a ton today.
[06:14] <ajmitch> sparks are fun
[06:14] <StevenK> At that point I hit the deck and ripped out the power cord from the wall.
[06:14] <StevenK> Wheee.
[06:14] <ajmitch> it was on my desk, in my bedroom
[06:14] <ajmitch> I was given it because it was a bit broken :)
[06:14] <StevenK> I've had that happen yet. I've zapped a montior and seen it lose its special smoke.
[06:15] <StevenK> s/\(I've\)/\1 not/
[06:15] <LaserJock> once when I was a kid my brother and I tryed to plug a 12V motor into a wall socket. That was fun :-)
[06:15] <ajmitch> currently using the 21" crt
[06:15] <StevenK> Niiiice monitor.
[06:16] <ajmitch> I was pricing up a dual-DVI card & 2 LCD panels
[06:16] <StevenK> I'm hoping to replace my Dual Athlon with an AMD64 soon.
[06:16] <StevenK> I only have a 17" CRT at home.
[06:17] <ajmitch> almost fast enough to compile stuff on :)
[06:17] <StevenK> ajmitch: I don't think that is fast enough for OpenOffice. :-P
[06:18] <ajmitch> it barely is
[06:18] <LaserJock> ajmitch: my ubuntu box is a 1800+ XP. I do all my pbuilder on it
[06:18] <ajmitch> I need more than my 1GB of RAM for OOo2
[06:18] <StevenK> Mmmm, dual Athlon with a 1Gb of RAM.
[06:19] <Kyral> My friend is getting me a deal on one of those nice Sun monitors
[06:19] <StevenK> I still love how my video card has more RAM than my first desktop.
[06:19] <StevenK> (24Mb vs 128Mb)
[06:20] <Kyral> I still love how my GBA has more computing power than the first Apollo mission
[06:20] <StevenK> Muahahaha
[06:20] <jsgotangco> hahaha
[06:20] <LaserJock> StevenK: yeah, I think the first computer I had had 4 Mb memory and a 120 MB hard drive
[06:20] <StevenK> My first machine was a TRS-80. :-)
[06:20] <StevenK> With a whole 64Kb!
[06:20] <ajmitch> I love how my video card has more RAM than my first computer I was using had hard drive space
[06:21] <ajmitch> the first one I used regularly was a 286
[06:21] <jsgotangco> with the 4 liner display
[06:21] <StevenK> Mmm, my first regular machine was an XT.
[06:21] <StevenK> Followed by a 386SX when it died.
[06:22] <ajmitch> I think I've still got a working 386SX in the cupboard here
[06:22] <ajmitch> & a 486 which I put minix on :)
[06:22] <TheMuso> Our first machine was a 486 DX33 with 8MB RAM.
[06:22] <minghua> So ubuntu is going to keep the name of OO.o2?
[06:22] <ajmitch> minghua: hm? why wouldn't it?
[06:22] <ajmitch> I didn't hear of trademark issues with that
[06:23] <StevenK> Firefox has trademark issues?
[06:23] <minghua> ajmitch: just don't like to see the name differs with debian
[06:23] <ajmitch> yes
[06:23] <StevenK> So, Iceweasel it is, then.
[06:23] <minghua> ajmitch: no, didn't mean that
[06:23] <ajmitch> haha
[06:23] <ajmitch> I think we can use 'firefox'
[06:23] <ajmitch> but not mozilla firefox
[06:24] <minghua> so, it's going to be like, debian firefox, ubuntu firefox, etc.?
[06:24] <ajmitch> no, just firefox
[06:28] <LaserJock> ajmitch: minix was the first *nix I ever tried. I installed it on my parents old 386
[06:28] <Kyral> I think I have a 286 in the attic
[06:28] <Kyral> like 4 MB of HD space
[06:29] <ajmitch> I think the very least that ubuntu will run on is 486DX
[06:29] <ajmitch> it might work on an SX, I can't recall
[06:29] <Kyral> I wonder if I can put PTYLinux on it
[06:31] <LaserJock> yeah our university charges $35 USD to dispose of old computers
[06:32] <bmonty> thats steep...the place I found charges $0.30/lb
[06:33] <LaserJock> bmonty: course we are going to have to start paying for disposal of a lot of chemicals because of EPA and OSHA
[06:34] <LaserJock> I guess you can't just find a nice Nevada desert to dump in anymore ;-)
[06:35] <bmonty> LaserJock: at least your sink drains will stay clean!
[06:36] <LaserJock> bmonty: I don't know. It's amazing what a bunch of Pirahna acid will clean off ;-)
[06:37] <Kyral> goodnight MOTU!
[06:37] <bmonty> night Kyral
[06:37] <LaserJock> cya Kyral even though I'm not a MOTU
[06:37] <minghua> Hmm, who was I talking to about the autotools-dev dependency and dh-make issue?
[06:37] <minghua> I think it was sirehart
[06:38] <Kyral> LaserJock: you will be soon enough my friend :D
[06:38] <bmonty> time for me to hit the rack as well...night all
[06:38] <minghua> there is a nice conversation on debian-mentors right now
[06:38] <LaserJock> Kyral: you probably will be before me
[06:38] <minghua> good night bmonty
[06:38] <LaserJock> cya bmonty have a good sleep
[06:48] <jsgotangco> night
[08:15] <minghua> geez, building octave in pbuilder really hurts.  it takes 10 minutes to set up tetex :-(
[08:28] <StevenK> Whee. Adding Files section makes emacs happy about fonts.
[08:29] <minghua> StevenK: :-)  it sounds your emacs is still using X core fonts there
[08:34] <StevenK> Well, how do I tell Xemacs to not use X core fonts?
[08:42] <minghua> (disclaimer: I don't use emacs at all)  don't know about Xemacs, but for emacs there are some patch scattering around that make xft support possible
[08:45] <sivang> morning all
[08:46] <minghua> hello sivang
[09:10] <sivang> hey minghua
[09:36] <zakame> rainy afternoon :)
[09:46] <dholbach> good morning
[09:46] <zakame> good day dholbach :)
[09:47] <dholbach> :)
[09:47] <shawarma> Good morning dholbach
[09:47] <dholbach> hey shawarma
[09:48] <TheMuso> Hey dholbach.
[09:48] <dholbach> hey guys :)
[09:48] <dholbach> you're all busy already, i guess? :)
[09:49] <shawarma> Of course. :-)
[09:50] <ajmitch> evening
[09:50] <jsgotangco> hello dholbach
[09:50] <ajmitch> jerome!
[09:50] <dholbach> hey jerome, andrew
[09:51] <zakame> just got in, I was out the whole day
[09:51] <dholbach> jsgotangco: they're amazing
[09:51] <jsgotangco> i guess i did something good
[09:52] <ajmitch> man
[09:52] <ajmitch> there seems to be a few people interested in this MOTU school
[09:52] <ajmitch> lots of people who we haven't seen around the motu channels
[09:52] <TheMuso> I am also interested, however the time that it is going to happen doesn't suit me. I will read up on it afterwards.
[09:52] <TheMuso> I have learnt a fair bit just by reading package metadata files anyway.
[09:53] <ajmitch> TheMuso: why doesn't it suit?
[09:53] <ajmitch> too early?
[09:53] <TheMuso> Too early in the morning, and I am going out the night before anyways.
[09:53] <zakame> will hopefully be there
[09:53] <ajmitch> right, 4am for you will be a bit early ;)
[09:53] <TheMuso> Yeah.
[09:53] <dholbach> i volunteered to give a motu introductory talk (no teaching) at umeet.uninet.edu
[09:53] <ajmitch> it'll be 6am for me
[09:53] <shawarma> I'm just catching up on the ubuntu-devel mailinglist and just found an e-mail from Seveas saying that the MOTU's soon will start nominating people instead of having people apply to become MOTU's. When is "soon" and how does this nomination thing work? Should one ask to be nominated or will it just happen when you least expect it?
[09:53] <ajmitch> dholbach: rock!
[09:53] <TheMuso> YOu guys are 2 hours in front of us aren't you?
[09:53] <jsgotangco> scholl sucks!
[09:54] <ajmitch> shawarma: it's not so much picking people at random
[09:54] <TheMuso> dholbach: Yeah well I have the a11y team meetings at 1:30AM.
[09:54] <ajmitch> you still apply yourself
[09:54] <dholbach> TheMuso: we should rotate times
[09:54] <shawarma> ajmitch: But to the motu team instead of tb?
[09:54] <ajmitch> but we have to vouch for you
[09:54] <zakame> dholbach: w00t!
[09:54] <ajmitch> shawarma: no, you'd probably just ask around if you're ready for MOTU, and get support for the TB meeting
[09:55] <TheMuso> dholbach: I will make a note to bring it up when the next meeting time/date is discussed on list.
[09:55] <shawarma> ajmitch: Oh, right.
[09:55] <zakame> er TB gets to vote, but iiuc MOTU nominates :)
[09:55] <dholbach> i think that's a good idea
[09:55] <ajmitch> shawarma: we're just trying to stop random people who nobody knows from joining up
[09:55] <jsgotangco> wooo \sh blog on a roll again
[09:55] <dholbach> maybe we should have short meetings before the TB, where everybody could have his say on the motu wannabes
[09:55] <dholbach> so we cover people who have worked with them
[09:55] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Understandably. One has to work up the ladder of privelages in terms of packaging uploads.
[09:56] <ajmitch> TheMuso: we don't want to waste the TB's time
[09:56] <ajmitch> which is what can happen
[09:56] <TheMuso> Yeah that too.
[09:56] <dholbach> and if one of us says, come on, better wait another two weeks, we should respect that
[09:56] <shawarma> I see. Well then, am I ready for MOTU?
[09:56] <ajmitch> we can often see when people are not quite there yet
[09:56] <dholbach> shawarma: that's something we should discuss (as a team) as i said
[09:56] <ajmitch> shawarma: do you think you are?
[09:57] <dholbach> shawarma: i didn't work particularly much with you to be honest
[09:57] <ajmitch> do you feel that you could do uploads to universe unsuprevised, without breaking things? :)
[09:57] <ajmitch> neither did I
[09:57] <ajmitch> which is why we need wider feedback as the team grows
[09:58] <ajmitch> I think I've seen a couple of debdiffs from you
[09:58] <shawarma> ajmitch: I think I could. I'm not too proud to ask around if I
[09:58] <shawarma> whoops
[09:58] <dholbach> we should implement that as a process
[09:58] <shawarma> ajmitch: I think I could. I'm not too proud to ask around if I'm in doubt about anything.
[09:58] <dholbach> meet before the tb meeting, talk about our motu wannabes
[09:58] <zakame> hm what's a nifty name for a MOTU Java Team? :)
[09:58] <ajmitch> dholbach: mailing list or irc?
[09:58] <TheMuso> zakame: JMOTU?
[09:58] <lifeless> Mo'JAVA
[09:58] <dholbach> maybe irc is more homely
[09:58] <ajmitch> we have a good spread of timezones as well :)
[09:58] <TheMuso> Java Masters Of The Universe
[09:58] <jsgotangco> Java Motu
[09:59] <ajmitch> evening lifeless
[09:59] <lifeless> ola
[09:59] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[09:59] <jsgotangco> there's already one
[09:59] <ajmitch> lifeless: getting nice & warm over there now?
[09:59] <zakame> Er I picked "MOTU Java Growers" :)
[09:59] <dholbach> get all cracking in motu media and motu security :)
[09:59] <shawarma> ajmitch: Most of my questions these days are about how to do stuff because I'm not a MOTU. I'm pretty comfortable with most of the technical stuff.
[09:59] <zakame> hi lifeless :)
[10:00] <lifeless> boiling as a dead crackmonkey in an acid pit
[10:00] <lifeless> zakame: hey
[10:00] <ajmitch> lifeless: yeah, I'm glad to still be in dunedin
[10:00] <ajmitch> and it's warm enough here for me
[10:00] <jsgotangco> 35C up?
[10:00] <ajmitch> shawarma: what sort of questions?
[10:00] <lifeless> jsgotangco: up
[10:00] <jsgotangco> ugghhhh
[10:00] <zakame> awww
[10:00] <ajmitch> 40+ now?
[10:01] <jsgotangco>  damn
[10:01] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: brisbane will be hotter
[10:01] <TheMuso> Not necessarily.
[10:01] <jsgotangco> ajmitch: please nooo....
[10:01] <shawarma> ajmitch: Who to ask to do syncing, what to include in by debdiffs for merges.. That kind of stuff. a MOTU would just ask elmo to sync, and just apply the debdiff and upload.. That kind of thing.
[10:02] <ajmitch> TheMuso: I've only been there once, but I thought it was consistently quite warm?
[10:02] <dholbach> shawarma: how long are you with the motu team for now?
[10:02] <dholbach> shawarma: how many uploads did you get sponsored?
[10:02] <shawarma> dholbach: On and off for.. 4-5 months.
[10:03] <ajmitch> dholbach: quite awhile
[10:03] <TheMuso> ajmitch: I don't know, but thats what I have seen in weather reports sometimes.
[10:03] <shawarma> dholbach: Dunno. Lost count.
[10:03] <ajmitch> I remember him around during breezy
[10:03] <dholbach> *nod* me too
[10:03] <dholbach> but i wasn't sure
[10:03] <ajmitch> shawarma: did you get some sponsored for breezy?
[10:03] <dholbach> because, as you said, you were on and off
[10:03] <ajmitch> I don't see your name on breezy-changes
[10:03] <shawarma> ajmitch: Sure.
[10:03] <shawarma> ajmitch: Even one that came up WAY after the freeze. :-)
[10:04] <ajmitch> syncs or debdiff uploads with your name?
[10:04] <shawarma> ajmitch: The mailing-list?
[10:04] <dholbach> which freeze?
[10:04] <ajmitch> I'm just trying to look
[10:04] <ajmitch> yes
[10:04] <shawarma> dholbach: Er... Don't remember what it was called.. There was a freeze at some point that was supposed to mean that no new source should enter breezy.
[10:04] <ajmitch> you'll want to link to those uploads on your wiki page if possible
[10:05] <ajmitch> UVF
[10:05] <dholbach> ah i see
[10:05] <shawarma> ajmitch: That sounds right.
[10:05] <dholbach> ajmitch: good idea
[10:05] <shawarma> ajmitch: No, I'm not on the mailing-list right now. I used the web interface.
[10:05] <dholbach> web interface?
[10:05] <shawarma> ajmitch: I will.
[10:05] <dholbach> for reading mails?
[10:06] <ajmitch> shawarma: I'm not saying about subscribing
[10:06] <ajmitch> I'm talking about uploads
[10:06] <shawarma> ajmitch: Oh, right.
[10:06] <ajmitch> I only see 1 with your name on it
[10:06] <zakame> er is it just me or is ftp.uk.debian.org down?
[10:06] <ajmitch> for dapper
[10:06] <ajmitch> & none for breezy
[10:06] <shawarma> dholbach: For certain mailing lists. I'm behind a satanic firewall, so reading actual e-mail is not always too easy.
[10:06] <dholbach> i see
[10:07] <dholbach> shawarma: but ajmitch had a good idea: link to the uploads you did and everybody's happy
[10:07] <shawarma> ajmitch: I was added to the white list only about a month ago.
[10:07] <dholbach> shawarma: do you have something on REVU?
[10:07] <ajmitch> shawarma: debdiffs weren't under your name?
[10:07] <shawarma> dholbach: Sure. look for sh@warma.dk og sh@linux2go.dk
[10:07] <dholbach> shawarma: no YOU list them on a wiki page :)
[10:07] <shawarma> ajmitch: The changelog was, but not necessarily the debdiff.
[10:07] <ajmitch> shawarma: ok, you'll need to hunt them out
[10:07] <shawarma> dholbach: Oh, I thought you wanted to see them to look at the quality..
[10:08] <dholbach> oh ok
[10:08] <dholbach> sorry
[10:08] <dholbach> yes
[10:08] <dholbach> cool
[10:08] <dholbach> i'll look at them at REVU day
[10:08] <dholbach> then i'll get more of an overview
[10:08] <minghua> anybody seen warnings like this: "dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of liboctave.so not recognized"?
[10:08] <shawarma> I don't mind too much if I'm not a MOTU. I just think I'll be of more use that way.
[10:09] <zakame> minghua: er something wrogn with the shlibs.local file?
[10:09] <dholbach> shawarma: we all do and we DO mind
[10:09] <dholbach> shawarma: it's just hard for me to say yes, when i didn't work much with you, you know?
[10:09] <shawarma> dholbach: Sure, sure.
[10:09] <dholbach> shawarma: but i'll review your packages on REVU at the weekend
[10:10] <shawarma> shawarma: It wouldn't be a proper review process if I weren't reviewed. :-D
[10:10] <ajmitch> on breezy-changes, that is
[10:10] <shawarma> ajmitch: That's possible. Sometimes I just upload a bugfix to bugzilla without changelog changes.
[10:11] <ajmitch> link to those if possible
[10:11] <ajmitch> you need to have evidence of work done to convince the TB (and MOTUs)
[10:11] <shawarma> ajmitch: I'm not saying that I did huge amounts of uploads or anything.. I did a few, I want to do more, and I just want to help out the best and most efficient way I can.
[10:11] <shawarma> ajmitch: Yeah. I'll update my wiki real soon.
[10:12] <ajmitch> for upload rights you generally need to have a few uploads sponsored so that we can guage quality
[10:12] <shawarma> and I can totally understand if you guys want to see more of my stuff before granting me direct acces to the repo.
[10:13] <ajmitch> probably a good idea to get a few more done
[10:13] <minghua> zakame: Hmm, there doesn't seem to be a shlibs.local file, will investigate further
[10:13] <ajmitch> the TB are stricter than we are :)
[10:13] <shawarma> ajmitch: and so they should! :-)
[10:14] <zakame> minghua: er I think that's auto-generated... is there an existing shlibs file as well?
[10:14] <ajmitch> well, we should try & be as strict as the TB
[10:14] <ajmitch> to avoid disappointing people at the TB stage
[10:14] <dholbach> shawarma: you'll become a MOTU
[10:15] <shawarma> dholbach: I agree. I'm just wondering if there'll be any point in applying this time (I think there's a TB meeting next week) or if I should rather wait a while..
[10:16] <shawarma> dholbach: But take a look on REVU day and let me know.
[10:16] <minghua> zakame: no, this is octave2.1 source package, I believe it builds liboctave.so
[10:17] <dholbach> shawarma: yeah
[10:17] <minghua> zakame: it's not in /usr/lib though, just in /usr/lib/octave-2.1.72/
[10:17] <dholbach> minghua: do you build shlibs anywhere?
[10:17] <minghua> zakame: so maybe just a missing -X option in dh_makeshlibs
[10:18] <zakame> minghua: hm, probably so
[10:18] <zakame> have you tried that?
[10:18] <minghua> no, the warning is dh_shlibdeps, not dh_makeshlibs
[10:18] <minghua> zakame: not yet, it takes 2 hours to build....
[10:19] <zakame> whoa
[10:19] <zakame> more than it takes me to compile the kernel :(
[10:21] <minghua> dholbach: I think no, no shlibs file at all
[10:22] <dholbach> minghua: maybe it's a reminder to split-that-damn-library-out! :)
[10:22] <zakame> hehe
[10:23] <shawarma> minghua: I've seen that error before..
[10:24] <minghua> liboctave.so.2.1.72: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), stripped
[10:24] <shawarma> minghua: I've done a little digging and it seems that you'd get it if the .soin question doesn't have a soname defined..
[10:24] <ajmitch> zakame: haha, I love your team description :)
[10:24] <minghua> so it seems the shared library is not that bad
[10:24] <minghua> shawarma: thanks for the pointer
[10:24] <ajmitch> 'Grow coffee for the Ubuntu Java community' ;)
[10:24] <shawarma> minghua: Try objdump -p $file
[10:25] <minghua>   SONAME      liboctave.so
[10:25] <minghua> shawarma: it does have
[10:25] <shawarma> minghua: but without a version.
[10:27] <minghua> shawarma: maybe, but I really don't know enough to dig into this
[10:27] <minghua> it's just warnings in building after all
[10:27] <shawarma> minghua: Gimme a minute.
[10:27] <zakame> ajmitch: thanks :D
[10:32] <minghua> ajmitch: yes, you are spamming my inbox! :-)
[10:32] <dholbach_> ajmitch: triage bugs! thanks!
[10:33] <dholbach_> ajmitch: fix bugs!
[10:33] <shawarma> shawarma: The error comes from dpkg-shlibdeps.pl in the dpkg distribution. It's quite cryptic to me, but it seems to have something to do with the NEEDED headers..
[10:33] <dholbach_> ajmitch: review packges!
[10:33] <shawarma> Why do I always write to myself?
[10:33] <ajmitch> dholbach_: haha, I'll do all that ;)
[10:33] <shawarma> minghua: That was for you of course.
[10:33] <dholbach_> ajmitch: when? :)
[10:33] <ajmitch> dholbach_: seems that my Christmas break will only be 1 week away from computers
[10:33] <ajmitch> and about 2 weeks of no work
[10:34] <dholbach_> 3 weeks of holidays?
[10:34] <ajmitch> yeah
[10:34] <dholbach_> tsssssss :)
[10:34] <dholbach_> ;)
[10:34] <ajmitch> so I've only got until then to clear up all the merges!
[10:34] <dholbach_> zakame: thanks for working the java team out
[10:35] <minghua> shawarma: http://pastebin.com/453774
[10:35] <minghua> shawarma: ring any bells?
[10:35] <ajmitch> dholbach_: how long will your boss let you away from a computer? ;)
[10:36] <dholbach_> 24th-1st
[10:36] <ajmitch> ah nice
[10:36] <ajmitch> I should be back home about the 31st
[10:37] <dholbach_> so 27th-31st are holidays
[10:37] <ajmitch> hopefully not too many serious bugs come up in my packages :)
[10:37] <shawarma> Argh, I've got a lecture now. I'll be back in a couple of hours.
[10:37] <dholbach_> shawarma: enjoy
[10:38] <minghua> shawarma: thanks for the help
[10:38] <ajmitch> dholbach_: remember that this is our summer holiday
[10:38] <dholbach_> yeah true
[10:38] <ajmitch> we don't get a break in the middle of the year :)
[10:38] <minghua> I am going to bed anyway.  I'll just install this octave thing tomorrow, and if it works, I am not going to worry about these warning messages
[10:38] <ajmitch> I am a glutton for punishment!
[10:38] <zakame> good night minghua :D
[10:38] <ajmitch> I just grabbed all the py* merge bugs
[10:39] <zakame> hope all goes well
[10:39] <minghua> hmm, maybe I should go read the debian build logs
[10:39] <minghua> zakame: yeah, thanks, and good night
[10:39] <zakame> ajmitch: wtg!
[10:39] <zakame> :)
[10:40] <ajmitch> zakame: someone has to prop up the MOTU Python team! ;0
[10:40] <zakame> ajmitch: er I was also thinking of a MOTU Camel Drivers (motuperl ;)
[10:40] <ajmitch> haha
[10:40] <ajmitch> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUPython
[10:40] <dholbach_> haha
[10:40] <ajmitch> a very small team at the moment for python
[10:40] <ajmitch> considering how many python packages we have
[10:41] <ajmitch> although everyone is free to work on them (and they do)
[10:42] <zakame> I've got a python question: is eyed3 ok to be built as arch: all, or any?
[10:42] <zakame> siretart posed that to me, and I was only following the previous merge of it
[10:42] <ajmitch> not knowing the package..
[10:42] <ajmitch> what is it currently?
[10:43] <zakame> well, at either case, the package builds well, and works too... its currently at arch: all
[10:43] <zakame> though Sid has arch: any
[10:43] <ajmitch> arch: all in ubuntu, or debian?
[10:43] <ajmitch> right
[10:43] <ajmitch> there might be a reason for that
[10:43] <zakame> though that wasn't stated in the changelog :(
[10:44] <ajmitch> I know I've looked at this before..
[10:45] <ajmitch> I'd set it arch: any just to remove the delta from debian
[10:46] <ajmitch> even if it's not right, we can still respect the debian maintainer's choice in such things
[10:46] <zakame> yes, that's also my gut feeling too, to minimize the diff
[10:47] <zakame> ok, thanks! :D
[10:47] <ajmitch> sigh, a 250K merged debdiff
[10:47] <ajmitch> nasty
[10:48] <ajmitch> it doesn't make sense for it to be so, since the only ubuntu change was to debian/control
[10:48] <zakame> indeed
[10:49] <siretart> morning
[10:49] <zakame> hi siretart :D
[10:49] <ajmitch> morning siretart
[10:50] <siretart> huhu zakame, hi ajmitch
[10:50] <ajmitch> great, now I've got a long list of about 60+ merges to do
[10:51] <ajmitch> why do I do it?
[10:51] <dholbach> DO IT! :)
[10:51] <dholbach> just sync them all
[10:51] <ajmitch> haha
[10:51] <ajmitch> no way
[10:51] <dholbach> :-p
[10:51] <ajmitch> they need love
[10:51] <ajmitch> lots of tender love
[10:51] <TheMuso> I still can't understand why some of you take on several dozen merges at one time.
[10:51] <ajmitch> TheMuso: because we're gluttons for punishment
[10:52] <ajmitch> and it's easier to grab a batch & burn through them quickly
[10:52] <TheMuso> Riiiight.
[10:52] <TheMuso> Yeah, when you are experienced at it, that makes sense.
[10:52] <ajmitch> for zope, you'd need to understand the packaging changes involved
[10:52] <ajmitch> since it was switching to zope-common & zope-debhelper
[10:53] <ajmitch> only a few of us were silly enough to get involved there back in hoary & breezy
[10:53] <azeem> ...
[10:53] <ajmitch> hey azeem
[10:54] <zakame> hello azeem :D
[10:54] <azeem> maybe there was a conclusion, but is it alright to skip the clean: target while preparing a source package?  And does dpkg-buildpackage support that?
[10:55] <ajmitch> I don't think it's alright, it's mandated in policy isn't it?
[10:55] <azeem> I know the buildds run it prior to build:
[10:55] <ajmitch> At a minimum, required targets are the ones called by dpkg-buildpackage, namely, clean, binary, binary-arch, binary-indep, and build
[10:55] <ajmitch> 4.8
[10:55] <azeem> well, ok
[10:55] <azeem> but that just says it has to be present
[10:56] <zakame> bbl folks :D
[10:56] <azeem> because it is potentionally called by dpkg-buildpackage
[10:56] <ajmitch> I guess you could skip it
[10:56] <ajmitch> people do call debian/rules binary
[10:56] <TheMuso> Cleaning before building is a must IMO, and yeah I am pretty sure it is defined somewhere. :)
[10:56] <ajmitch> for some reason
[10:56] <azeem> TheMuso: that is fine.  I was talking about cleaning before making a source package
[10:57] <ajmitch> some packages are hopeless at that
[10:57] <TheMuso> Ah ok.
[10:57] <azeem> so the config.{guess,sub} updates in clean: don't pollute the .diff.gz
[10:57] <ajmitch> the clean target breaks all sorts of things
[10:57] <azeem> I think we are moving away from that slowly
[10:57] <azeem> frobbing Build-Depends in clean: is outlawed now
[10:58] <ajmitch> iirc yada gave me nightmares with that
[10:58] <siretart> I rather tend to filterdiff config.{guess,sub} out when reviewing such diffs
[10:58] <azeem> s/with that//
[10:58] <siretart> yada... brrrrr
[10:59] <azeem> isn't it that saner build systems (like CDBS?) revert the config.{sub,guess} update in clean?
[10:59] <azeem> and only do it in build:
[10:59] <azeem> anyway, not a big problem
[10:59] <ajmitch> yeah, cdbs is fairly sane
[10:59] <ajmitch> but dh_make has generated lots of bad templates
[11:00] <azeem> dh_make should just include /usr/share/cdbs/1/debhelper.mk by default and be done
[11:00] <doko> is there _any_ reason that motu's upload NOT with -ubuntu release suffixes?
[11:01] <dholbach> -XbuildY?
[11:01] <ajmitch> doko: they shouldn't do it
[11:01] <ajmitch> well, apart from the build case
[11:01] <siretart> dholbach: are you talking about mplayer-skins?
[11:01] <siretart> argl
[11:01] <dholbach> i'm not talking about anything
[11:01] <siretart> doko: are you talking about mplayer-skins?
[11:01] <doko> Daniel T Chen, Andrew Mitchell, Sebastian Droege, Stephan Herrmann, ...
[11:01] <siretart> sorry, daniel
[11:02] <ajmitch> doko: what did I do?
[11:02] <ajmitch> a lot of the ones on dapper changes are syncs
[11:02] <ajmitch> and they appear in our names, but are signed by the sync key
[11:03] <doko> ahh, ok
[11:03] <ajmitch> I'm guessing that's what you're seeing
[11:04] <siretart> doko: I uploaded mplayer-skins without -ubuntu suffix, but that was on purpose. I dont expect debian to introduce such a package short to mid-term
[11:04] <doko> siretart: IMO that doesn't matter
[11:04] <siretart> ok
[11:05] <ajmitch> doko: how is your python roadmap looking?
[11:05] <doko> ajmitch: look at #u-m
[11:06] <ajmitch> -meeting?
[11:06] <siretart> when will debian start using python 2.4 as default? quite a lot of diffs are because of that
[11:07] <ajmitch> since it'll be a large change to implement in universe if we decide to do it
[11:09] <Treenaks> Seveas: mogge
[11:09] <ajmitch> hi Seveas, Treenaks
[11:09] <Seveas> moin
[11:10] <Treenaks> ajmitch: hi
[11:17] <TheMuso> Question. Is it common practice/policy to capitalize the first letter of the first word in a package description? I have noitce one or two packages in merges where an Ubuntu change has been to change that.
[11:19] <ajmitch> those sort of changes are unnecessary
[11:20] <TheMuso> Ok, thanks./
[11:22] <dholbach> lintian is just on crack, when it complains stuff like that
[11:22] <ajmitch> it's just following policy
[11:26] <ajmitch> oh well
[11:26] <ajmitch> something to worry about tomorrow
[11:27] <ajmitch> night all
[11:27] <tseng> bye ajmitch
[11:27] <TheMuso> ajmitch: Night.
[11:28] <bojan> hi!
[11:28] <jpatrick> bojan: hello
[11:36] <TheMuso> Question. If I am reporting a bug, and then attaching a debdiff to fix the bug, should I assign it to any particular team? It is not a merge.
[11:47] <jsgotangco> laterz
[11:47] <crimsun> cya
[12:11] <Gloubiboulga> hi
[12:13] <crimsun> hi
[12:19] <spacey> python-profiler is missing in hoary
[12:20] <spacey> think doable to install/build the breezy one in hoary or will hell break lose?
[12:20] <spacey> i have no idea how crucial it is to python itself
[12:22] <crimsun> huh?
[12:22] <crimsun> http://packages.ubuntu.com/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=python2.4-profiler
[12:23] <spacey> oh
[12:23] <spacey> multiverse
[12:23] <spacey> in breezy its in universe ;x
[12:23] <spacey> oh its not
[12:23] <crimsun> ...no, it's in multiverse.
[12:23] <spacey> i'm just blind
[12:23] <spacey> :P
[12:23] <spacey> sorry
[12:24] <spacey> well at least my mystery is solved:P
[12:25] <crimsun> :)
[12:29] <TheMuso> If any MOTU is about and looking for something to do, I have reported a bug against big-cursor, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/big-cursor/+bug/5533 -- I would appreciate a MOTU reviewing the diff, and sponsoring an upload. Thanks.
[12:30] <Ubugtu> Error: Could not parse data returned by Malone: Connection to Malone bugzilla failed: timed out
[12:33] <shawarma> I think I fell asleep 4 times during that lecture..
[12:34] <shawarma> Inhomogenous second order linear differential equations... ZZzzzzz....
[12:39] <crimsun> TheMuso: uploaded, thanks.
[12:40] <TheMuso> crimsun: Thanks.
[12:40] <crimsun> np
[01:00] <TheMuso> Yakes. DIdn't realise I missed preinst/postrm path changes.
[01:01] <crimsun> new debdiff against 3.4ubuntu1, please
[01:01] <TheMuso> Thats what I was thinking.
[01:05] <TheMuso> Just got to test in chroot and pbuilder. :)
[01:10] <looksaus> wat are the most likely place and time I can meet sabdfl on irc?
[01:14] <TheMuso> crimsun: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/big-cursor/+bug/5533 - Updated debdiff. Apologies, and thanks. Learnt a lesson from that one. :)
[01:14] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5533: cursor (Ubuntu) - big-cursorfont file installed in incorrect place. In: big-cursor (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5533
[01:18] <crimsun> TheMuso: uploaded
[01:24] <TheMuso> Thanks again.
[01:24] <TheMuso> Will mark as fixed.
[01:25] <\sh> BAH PLANET!
[01:33] <shawarma> I figured out the what the "dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: format of liboctave.so not recognized" error minghua was experiencing is all about, if anyone is interested.
[01:35] <crimsun> sure
[01:35] <shawarma> As I said it'
[01:35] <shawarma> fscking keyboard..
[01:35] <shawarma> As I said it's a perl script spewing it out.
[01:36] <shawarma> It checks the NEEDED headers of a library and tries to figure out which versions it needs.
[01:36] <shawarma> ..the problem is not, in fact, in liboctave.so, but rather a file which NEEDs it.
[01:36] <shawarma> The NEEDED field needs to have a specific format for shlibdeps can figure out which version it is.
[01:37] <shawarma> Either it should be libfoo1.4.so or libfoo.so.1.4.
[01:37] <shawarma> Er...
[01:37] <shawarma> make that libfoo1-4.so or libfoo.so.1.4
[01:37] <shawarma> However, a .so that it's analysing has a NEEDED liboctave.so header, which it can't verify due to the lack of versioning info.
[01:38] <crimsun> yep, needs to be fixed
[01:38] <shawarma> So the error does not refer to the format of the file "liboctave.so", but rather the NAME of the file.
[01:39] <shawarma> If you see this error during the build of the package containing liboctave, it doesn't really matter, but otherwise it should probably be fixed.
[02:05] <zakame> evening :D
[02:06] <crimsun> 'evening zakame
[02:06] <zakame> hi crimsun :)
[02:07] <crimsun> hiya.
[02:07] <crimsun> Almost fewer than 100 merges remaining :))
[02:07] <shawarma> evening?
[02:07] <shawarma> zakame: Where are you?
[02:07] <zakame> yeah, cheers to all! :D
[02:07] <zakame> shawarma: in .ph :D
[02:08] <shawarma> zakame: Oh.
[02:09] <zakame> shawarma: make that a very rainy evening :)
[02:13] <zakame> er, is it possible for pdebuild to sign both {source,$arch}.changes? I currently have it so that it signs only $arch.changes, but not the source.changes...
[02:22] <slomo> crimsun: did you make any progress with vlc?
[02:24] <crimsun> slomo: err, is something broken beyond http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/dapper-changes/2005-November/001851.html ?
[02:26] <crimsun> (referring to ia64 ftbfs?)
[02:26] <slomo> crimsun: oh, didn't notice this one... what did you do with faad2?
[02:27] <crimsun> slomo: I haven't diverged terribly much from Debian's yet
[02:28] <slomo> crimsun: ok, but it's on your todo list?
[02:29] <crimsun> slomo: yes
[02:29] <crimsun> slomo: feel free to touch it if you wish, you won't be stepping on my toes
[02:30] <slomo> ok, fine :) i ask because i'm currently looking at xine and it has the same problem... reminded me of vlc ;)
[02:30] <slomo> no, just do it when you find some time for it :) you know more about vlc than i do
[02:43] <doko> slomo: mplayer: upgrades fail
[02:43] <doko> /usr/share/mplayer/Skin/default previously was a dir, you have to remove that manually in the preinst ...
[02:44] <crimsun> http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new -> "Total 99 packages"  :))
[02:44] <zakame> woohoo!
[02:44] <zakame> cheers to all!! :D
[02:45] <slomo> doko: ok, will do now... (but it should be mplayer-skins)
[02:45] <slomo> doko: thanks
[02:45] <zakame> er, who do I ask to trigger a rebuild again?
[02:45] <crimsun> zakame: infinity or lamont
[02:45] <zakame> crimsun: thanks
[03:05] <Kyral> morning MOTUs
[03:05] <zakame> evening Kyral :D
[03:38] <zakame> now lucene even fails on my pbuilder :/
[03:49] <Mez> ogra: ping
[03:49] <ogra> Mez, ?
[03:49] <Mez> hey ogra :D
[03:49] <Mez> am at a school now doing a demo edubuntu installation for them
[03:49] <ogra> hi
[03:49] <Mez> they're mainly interested in moodle
[03:49] <Mez> anything i should show them?
[03:49] <Mez> and they want to know more about your "student control panel"
[03:50] <Mez> we'll take this private
[03:50] <ogra> ah, sad moodle is only prepared, but didnt make it on the CD, so show them how to enable universe ;)
[03:51] <ogra> student-control-panl is in dapper, just grab it from there, its plain python ...
[04:26] <Gloubiboulga> I've used lpbugs.py 15 minutes ago (new merge) and I can't see anything about it in malone
[04:26] <Gloubiboulga> is this normal ?
[05:00] <thierry_> could a MOTU take a look at malone bug 5544
[05:00] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5544: sudoku (Ubuntu) - [PATCH]  gnome-sudoku absolute icon path In: gnome-sudoku (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5544
[05:13] <Amaranth> thierry_: simple patch, now you just need a MOTU :)
[05:14] <thierry_> Amaranth : exactly, are you one?
[05:14] <Amaranth> nope
[05:14] <thierry_> ok then, going to wait one
[06:33] <Kyral> greets!
[06:33] <Kyral> hey Seveas
[06:33] <crimsun> lamont: err, I was waiting for elmo to sync that...
[06:33] <lamont> has bad build-deps, it looked like
[06:34] <Seveas> oi
[06:34] <lamont> that is, it likes mesa crap
[06:34] <lamont> or rather, xlib-built-mesa
[06:34] <lamont> although I could be wrong...
[06:34] <crimsun> lamont: builds fine in a Dapper pbuilder, though it sure is ugly from the b-d side
[06:35] <crimsun> I debated merging but decided to try and keep it in line with Debian, thus the sync
[06:36] <lamont> ah, sorry
[06:36] <crimsun> no biggie, at least my merges will build now :))
[06:36] <lamont> which would then mean that -10 could be a sycn
[06:36] <crimsun> right
[06:38] <lamont> glcpu_1.0.1-6 needs better build-deps, fwiw
[06:39] <JohnnyMast> guys lablg can by synced
[06:44] <dholbach> siretart, slomo: i started http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Media - if you have sudden clever ideas, please add them
[06:44] <dholbach> siretart, slomo: i look forward to add that stuff to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Long, once we're there
[06:44] <slomo> dholbach: Testing/Long you mean?
[06:45] <siretart> dholbach: good that you remind me, I wanted to prepare an announcement for the media meeting next thursday
[06:45] <dholbach> slomo: yes
[06:45] <dholbach> slomo: sorry :)
[06:45] <slomo> dholbach: ok, i'll take a look after merging xine :)
[06:45] <dholbach> hehe
[06:47] <slomo> dholbach, siretart: and let's get a priotized (?) list with important formats for which we need test content... or what do you think?
[06:47] <dholbach> slomo: absolutely
[06:49] <siretart> slomo: I think I need to add a Conflicts/Replaces on all these junk mplayer packages for mplayer-skins :(
[06:50] <slomo> siretart: yes, that's what i feared too :( and i need to find a way out of this conffiles madness
[06:54] <siretart> slomo: what are the problems with the approach from the dpkg wiki?
[06:55] <slomo> siretart: our current package without the conffiles and no removal for them... and we have this conffiles from different packages (i.e. the mplayer-* ones)
[06:55] <theCore> is there a list of ubuntu packages up for adoption like the one for debian?
[06:56] <siretart> slomo: well, since we Replace them, I have no problems taking the code snipped from dpkg wiki
[06:57] <siretart> new mplayer-skins uploaded
[06:57] <slomo> siretart: i'll try it later... but i don't think it will work as expected... we'll see :) but please don't upload a new mplayer until this is fixed
[06:57] <slomo> siretart: please test in a chroot if the update works flawless now ;)
[06:58] <siretart> slomo: I will coordinate with you before uploading in any case
[06:59] <siretart> slomo: which conffiles are deprecated at all? it is only /etc/mplayer/codecs.conf, is it?
[06:59] <azeem> theCore: Ubuntu has a different maintainership model than Debian.  In theory, everbody cares for every package, modulo the main<->universe destinction
[07:00] <siretart> theCore: you want to work on a package? great! just do work :)
[07:01] <slomo> siretart: deprecated is none of them but they're all simply not needed (only mplayer.conf to get sane output devices) except if the user wants to set some custom options ;) if we want to go the easy way we could just install them again
[07:02] <slomo> siretart: they contained the default settings anyway
[07:02] <siretart> slomo: so we should just install an updated one
[07:03] <theCore> siretart, so, where I can get/put packages to maintain?
[07:03] <slomo> siretart: for all of them? ok, i'll do that then in a few minutes
[07:04] <siretart> slomo: this seems to be more sane to me. If the user has done local modifications, dpkg will bug him
[07:04] <siretart> theCore: in principle, all packages are group maintained.
[07:04] <slomo> siretart: ok
[07:05] <siretart> theCore: so you don't need to ask if you want to work on a package. But please coordinate in this channel or mailing list to avoid duplicate work
[07:07] <theCore> siretart, ok, i'm asking this because I'm currently working on the PackagingGuide, so I need to get some experiences before writing
[07:08] <theCore> siretart, we want to make it easy for new maintainers
[07:08] <siretart> theCore: great
[07:08] <siretart> theCore: but what you are asking is rather about procedures than about packaging
[07:08] <siretart> theCore: did you coordinate with Diziet about that?
[07:09] <theCore> siretart, Diziet ?
[07:09] <siretart> theCore: He is about to write documentation about procedures
[07:09] <siretart> theCore: yes, please ask him
[07:09] <siretart> theCore: he is in #ubuntu-devel
[07:09] <theCore> siretart, thanks
[07:09] <dholbach> theCore: LaserJock works on it too
[07:09] <dholbach> theCore: and the guys in #ubuntu-doc
[07:09] <siretart> and Unforgiven
[07:10] <dholbach> seems like a meeting would be appropriate
[07:10] <siretart> it is great that there are folks interested in writing docs, but this should definitly get coordinated
[07:10] <theCore> dholbach, i work with LaserJock
[07:10] <dholbach> cool
[07:10] <siretart> theCore: did you also work with Unforgiven?
[07:10] <theCore> siretart, no
[07:10] <siretart> he has done some sort of Packaging guide
[07:11] <siretart> but it was really just packaging, without a word about procedures
[07:11] <theCore> dholbach, i'm his official packaging newbie ;)
[07:11] <theCore> siretart, do you have a link ?
[07:11] <siretart> to his packaging guide? hmm lets see
[07:11] <JohnnyMast> lol :)
[07:12] <siretart> theCore: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=787
[07:13] <theCore> siretart, thank
[07:13] <siretart> theCore: but please, talk to diziet
[07:13] <dholbach> and it's in the docteam repo now too
[07:13] <theCore> siretart, i will
[07:14] <dholbach> it's in the new ubuntu-docs package too
[07:14] <dholbach> YAY! BONUS! packaging guide everywhere
[07:14] <tseng> woo
[07:14] <JohnnyMast> mege guide now to
[07:15] <JohnnyMast> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
[07:15] <JohnnyMast> also with laser
[07:15] <dholbach> "i read in the packaging guide that ..." - "err hang on, which one are you referring to?"
[07:16] <siretart> JohnnyMast: have you read this: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-motu/2005-December/000027.html
[07:17] <JohnnyMast> let me C
[07:17] <siretart> JohnnyMast: I've written down some notes about merging, perhaps you can incorporating them into https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Merging
[07:17] <theCore> JohnnyMast, yea i know, LaserJock has talked about this wiki
[07:17] <siretart> I'd do it myself, but I'm really busy right now, sorry
[07:17] <JohnnyMast> yoes, im verry happy about your explaination
[07:17] <JohnnyMast> *yes
[07:18] <theCore> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Outline <<< our current plan for the packaging guide
[07:19] <JohnnyMast> theCore ... checking
[07:19] <JohnnyMast> aah yes i saw this
[07:20] <slomo> siretart: we had our first mail on the media list :)
[07:21] <dholbach> more! mailing! lists!
[07:21] <dholbach> where do i sign up?
[07:21] <ogra> *shudder*
[07:21] <ogra> you and your mailing list mania
[07:21] <dholbach> is that nothing for ubuntu-desktop?
[07:21] <dholbach> ME?!
[07:21] <dholbach> i didnt create it
[07:21] <ogra> you as in you all
[07:21] <ogra> :)
[07:21] <siretart> slomo: yes, I think I have a fix for the mencoder manpage issue
[07:22] <siretart> ogra: the motumedia@tauware.de list is mainly for the buglogs for motumedia team
[07:22] <slomo> dholbach: this list is actually older than -desktop, -motu, etc ;)
[07:22] <ogra> dholbach, remember i'll have to handle 1000s of more mails now *g*
[07:22] <slomo> siretart: oh, give me the patch and i'll add it for the next upload :)
[07:22] <ogra> siretart, i'm just joking ... ignore me
[07:22] <dholbach> ogra: poor you, i'll get you a handkerchief :)
[07:22] <siretart> ogra: we needed it as contact adress for motumedia, lp doesn't support the same contact address for 2 different groups
[07:23] <siretart> dholbach: motumedia is located at http://tauware.de/mailman/listinfo/motumedia
[07:23] <dholbach> i thought it was a discussion list
[07:24] <theCore> siretart, can you explain me the packaging procedures?
[07:24] <siretart> dholbach: it is the contact address for motumedia. we had our first person asking something on motumedia today :)
[07:24] <siretart> theCore: in principle yes
[07:24] <dholbach> :)
[07:24] <siretart> :)
[07:24] <theCore> siretart, because diziet doesn't seem to be there
[07:25] <siretart> theCore: write him an email
[07:26] <siretart> theCore: I think the decision at ubz was to take the debian maintainers guide, and strip off everything not applying to ubuntu, which would make the document only half thick as the original
[07:26] <siretart> theCore: but I may be wrong
[07:26] <siretart> slomo: what do you think about this: http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5517
[07:26] <theCore> siretart, it's not our plans, though
[07:26] <siretart> theCore: I see.
[07:27] <theCore> siretart, we want to distance ourselves of the DNMG
[07:27] <slomo> siretart: definitly not ;) this will remove the mplayer manpage from the mplayer package... what issue do you mean btw?
[07:28] <siretart> slomo: oh
[07:28] <siretart> mom
[07:28] <ogra> theCore,  you cant, lots of the info in there is needed, you can only write it better ...
[07:28] <siretart> theCore: I'm not talking about the DNMG but about the Debian Developers Reference
[07:28] <theCore> siretart, a ok
[07:29] <siretart> slomo: I'm talking about malone bug #5508
[07:29] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5508: mencoder conflicts with mplayer, no default skin In: mplayer (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Media Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5508
[07:29] <theCore> ogra, we want to make it easier
[07:30] <ogra> theCore, but i know Diziet, it would be cool if you guys could work with him, else we'll just have a ubuntu NMG
[07:30] <slomo> siretart: ok, i'll take a look at it :) (hmm, feels weird to work on xine and mplayer at the same time ;) )
[07:30] <theCore> ogra, and that we don't want
[07:30] <ogra> (but dont tell him ;) )
[07:30] <ogra> yup
[07:30] <JohnnyMast> could one of you review https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/4811 ?
[07:30] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #4811: phpmyadmin.prerm: line 12: db_get: command not found In: phpmyadmin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/4811
[07:31] <siretart> ogra: the plan was rather to document procedures, than packaging issues. at UBZ we talked rather about an Ubuntu Developers Reference
[07:31] <ogra> uh, db_get not found ?
[07:31] <theCore> ogra, and that is what we don't want *
[07:31] <ogra> theCore, yes ...
[07:31] <JohnnyMast> yeah that was what i fixed
[07:31] <JohnnyMast> (the bug it fix)
[07:32] <JohnnyMast> it was packed with yada
[07:32] <ogra> siretart, i just fear a UMNG written by diziet alone ...
[07:32] <slomo> siretart: oh, i'll fix it... seems like mencoder finally got it's own manpage and i didn't notice it
[07:32] <ogra> *UNMG
[07:32] <azeem> JohnnyMast: the version should be -2ubuntu1 if -2 was the last Debian revision, I believe
[07:32] <siretart> slomo: so the line in question should be removed?
[07:33] <siretart> well, anyway. I'm off for dinner. cu later!
[07:33] <theCore> siretart, i regret i didn't go to UBZ, it was so close to me
[07:33] <tseng> ogra: that does sound scary
[07:33] <slomo> siretart: it will be fixed when you're back :)
[07:35] <JohnnyMast> ezeem i dont know, theother version seemed straight from debian
[07:35] <JohnnyMast>  phpmyadmin (4:2.6.4-pl4-2) unstable; urgency=high
[07:35] <ogra> tseng, it might be... i dont know diziets literary skills, but i have some presumption that i wouldnt want to give it my GF if she would wnt to learn packaging ...
[07:35] <azeem> JohnnyMast: yes
[07:35] <tseng> i think ankurs version is pretty good
[07:35] <dholbach> ogra: i believe it'd be very accurate
[07:36] <JohnnyMast> so i created -3ubuntu1 (but im not sure about this azeem you could be right)
[07:36] <ogra> dholbach, *extremely* accurate,yes
[07:36] <dholbach> tseng: when i looked at it, i found some unnecessary steps, like creating pbuilders in chroots
[07:36] <tseng> yes that was strange
[07:36] <JohnnyMast> but on the other side there was a bug fix as well azeem
[07:38] <ogra> dholbach, the most important thing i'd see is that a totally unskilled person understands a bit of packaging afterwards and doesnt put it away in the middle ...
[07:38] <dholbach> ogra: there should be two versions, i think
[07:38] <dholbach> ogra: the quick guide
[07:38] <dholbach> ogra: and the reference
[07:38] <dholbach> "quick guide"
[07:38] <ogra> hmmk
[07:39] <dholbach> to flatten the learning curve
[07:39] <dholbach> to get people started
[07:39] <azeem> "dh_make && dpkg-buildpackage"
[07:39] <dholbach> haha
[07:39] <ogra> azeem++
[07:39] <dholbach> dh_make -b maybe
[07:39] <dholbach> :-p
[07:39] <theCore> siretart, what is Diziet's email?
[07:40] <theCore> dholbach, that our plans for the PackagingGuide, a quick guide and a reference guide
[07:41] <JohnnyMast> theCore -> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
[07:41] <dholbach> theCore: 3? i talked about 2 :)
[07:42] <theCore> dholbach, 3?
[07:42] <theCore> 1) a quick guide, 2) reference guide
[07:42] <JohnnyMast> 3) total guide
[07:43] <JohnnyMast> thats the link i pasted
[07:43] <JohnnyMast> from edubuntu
[07:43] <dholbach> hmm, do we need 3)?
[07:43] <ogra> JohnnyMast, thats a wrong impression, the wikis are one ;)
[07:43] <dholbach> ogra, mr edubuntu? :)
[07:43] <dholbach> ogra: i mean "mr. shuttleworth", could you elaborate? ;)
[07:43] <ogra> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
[07:43] <ogra> ;)
[07:44] <JohnnyMast> erm
[07:44] <ogra> dholbach, \sh_away wrote that page iirc
[07:44] <dholbach> yeah
[07:45] <ogra> https://wiki.kubuntu.org/HowToBuildDebianPackagesFromScratch
[07:45] <ogra> btw ;)
[07:46] <ajmitch> morning
[07:46] <dholbach> it's a bit braindead, yes
[07:46] <dholbach> hey ajmitch
[07:47] <LaserJock> ok, I'm back from class, give me a sec to read the log
[07:48] <LaserJock> ok, I talked to Diziet about the Developer's Reference
[07:48] <theCore> LaserJock, what he said ?
[07:48] <LaserJock> theCore: he said that the can be orthogonal docs
[07:49] <LaserJock> I view it as the Developer's reference is more policy and the Packaging Guide it mor tutorial
[07:49] <theCore> LaserJock, ok, i see
[07:49] <ogra> LaserJock++
[07:50] <LaserJock> I don't know how far Diziet has gotten with the Ubuntu Developer Reference but it probably won't be too far from the Debian one
[07:50] <LaserJock> So we should be able to look at it and try to minimize overlap
[07:51] <theCore> LaserJock, i think, too
[07:52] <LaserJock> As for the IntroDeveloperDoc done by Unfrgiven. I have sort of decided to abandon that. I'm not sure yet though.
[07:53] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: please, your fix to #4811 was quite wrong
[07:53] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you need to understand the evils of yada for that one
[07:54] <ajmitch> reverting it back to 0.35 is not good
[07:55] <JohnnyMast> ajmitch that i knew, but the db_get was in the wrong place
[07:55] <ajmitch> why do you think that?
[07:56] <JohnnyMast> because when you comment the line it works fine
[07:56] <JohnnyMast> and clean
[07:56] <ajmitch> that doesn't mean it's in the wrong place
[07:56] <ajmitch> it just means you disabled something to mask the symptoms
[07:57] <JohnnyMast> yes thats right
[07:57] <selinium> Hi all, ogra.. The URL you posted about building packages, I have been looking to get into doing stuff for the MOTU for sometime and have found it difficult. I have found even though people want to help wannabe's it can be difficult to get going. It looks like this wiki page will help me on my first packaging. The wiki says about make src && make dynamic, but does not explian why?  Can you ellaborate?  :)
[07:59] <ogra> not really, i find this page quite awful ...
[08:00] <ogra> i just pasted the link to point out that ubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu wikis are identical
[08:00] <JohnnyMast> ow btw ogra 3) ubuntuforums.org :)
[08:00] <JohnnyMast> thats 3
[08:00] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you relaiase
[08:00] <ajmitch> sorry
[08:01] <ogra> their wiki isnt realted to ubuntu
[08:01] <ajmitch> wow that was an impressive typo
[08:01] <JohnnyMast> lol
[08:01] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: you realise that a rebuild of phpmyadmin with no source changes will fix it?
[08:01] <slomo> siretart: uh, i set almost all mplayer bugs to fixed, needinfo or rejected ;) only one is missing now
[08:01] <ogra> ajmitch, mine or yours ?
[08:01] <ajmitch> and reverting to the older yada is exactly what reintroduces the bug?
[08:01] <siretart> slomo: YOU ROCK!
[08:02] <ajmitch> I had to do that in breezy because yada could not be updated in main
[08:02] <siretart> slomo: the missing one is the manpage thing, is it?
[08:02] <ajmitch> ogra: mine
[08:02] <ogra> :)
[08:02] <ajmitch> ogra: I even hit enter when going for backspace
[08:02] <JohnnyMast> ajmitch no i dont
[08:02] <slomo> siretart: no, it's fixed... the missing one is a mplayer32 package for amd64... people want to use the w32codecs there ;)
[08:02] <shawarma> Any of you guys running dapper in anything but a chroot?
[08:02] <siretart> slomo: ah I see
[08:03] <ajmitch> shawarma: sure
[08:03] <slomo> siretart: can you verify that the w32codecs don't work on amd64 when adding --enable-win32, etc to configure (look at the options for x86 in rules)
[08:03] <shawarma> ajmitch: And it's kind of stable right now?
[08:03] <slomo> shawarma: sure... works fine here ;)
[08:03] <selinium> ogra... OK! So what I would like, as a wannabe, is a walk through. To guide me through my first package. From installing a chroot to the end package. Is there such a page? If not can anyone here put in the time once to save countless questions from wannabes?
[08:03] <siretart> slomo: I have an amd64 and would reject that anyway
[08:03] <siretart> slomo: w32codecs are way overrated
[08:03] <shawarma> slomo: Great. My girlfriend is tired of the ipw2200 driver in breezy, so I'm going to upgrade her laptop's kernel to the one from dapper..
[08:04] <slomo> siretart: sure... but if it works out of the box by just enabling these options for configure we can do it ;) please please test :)
[08:04] <ogra> selinium, see the PbuilderHowto for the tools stuff, thats mainly what you need
[08:04] <siretart> slomo: sure
[08:04] <ogra> apart from dpkg-dev
[08:04] <ogra> if you want to make packages from scratch, have a look at dh_make
[08:05] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: fyi, the phpmyadmin bug doesn't even appear to exist in dapper
[08:05] <siretart> slomo: Do you experience the gam_server bug in gnome-panel?
[08:05] <ogra> but note that most of motu work is *not* making packages from scratch
[08:05] <ogra> rather touching others packages and fix errors
[08:07] <JohnnyMast> ajmitch i dont know, i dont run dapper
[08:08] <ogra> JohnnyMast, we only develop for dapper ...
[08:08] <ogra> so it would be clever to run it :)
[08:08] <JohnnyMast> lol yep
[08:09] <ajmitch> blindly fixing dapper bugs is hard :)
[08:09] <ajmitch> since we have to verify the bugs are there
[08:09] <selinium> ogra: It is not just about the tools though, without a walkthrough on what to do with a package all I have is installed pbuilder.... If I had the ability to follow a walkthrough on re-packing for Ubuntu I would have the confidence to look at other packages.... and to get more involved.
[08:09] <Mithrandir> ajmitch: you can often do that by inspection
[08:09] <selinium> ogra: Sorry for picking on you! It just that you posted the URL! :)
[08:10] <ajmitch> Mithrandir: often, but not without looking at the source
[08:10] <ogra> selinium, its all about the tools and the right choice of dependencys for the package ...
[08:10] <ogra> everything else you'll learn by doing ...
[08:11] <JohnnyMast> ajmitch, i might want a download url in that case
[08:11] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: for what?
[08:11] <JohnnyMast> dapper test run
[08:11] <ajmitch> you seemed to grab the dapper source, but it needed to be built on dapper
[08:11] <JohnnyMast> the first test release
[08:11] <ajmitch> it should be on the site somewhere
[08:11] <slomo> siretart: which one?
[08:12] <JohnnyMast> working on it ...
[08:12] <siretart> slomo: I mean malone #5176
[08:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5176: Application menu disappears In: gamin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Ubuntu GNOME Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5176
[08:13] <siretart> this Ubugtu is handy :)
[08:13] <slomo> siretart: no, works fine here
[08:13] <siretart> interesting
[08:13] <siretart> slomo: are you on ppc or x86?
[08:14] <slomo> siretart: it works on both ;)
[08:15] <siretart> have fun ogra!
[08:15] <ogra> will do :)
[08:15] <selinium> ogra, I will give you a quick run through from my experiences in the MOTU, these aren't criticisms, just what happened to me. I spoke to Seveas about getting more involved with Ubuntu, he pointed me in the direction of the MOTU wiki pages. After following the PbuilderHowTo and signing the CoC I can here. I asked about getting involved and was greated in true Ubuntu style by congrats and the like. But then I have f
[08:15] <selinium> ound it difficult to go any further. To find a mentor, or a package to work with... Have I missed some vital piece in the chain?
[08:16] <JohnnyMast> brb
[08:16] <selinium> I ask this question to all, see you soon ogra :)
[08:20] <LaserJock> selinium: you might try UniverseCandidates to find packages to do. Or work on merges ( MOTUToMerge ) or just check out MOTUTodo
[08:20] <LaserJock> selinium: those are all at wiki.ubuntu.com BTW
[08:23] <JohnnyMast> ajmitch, found it http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/kubuntu/releases/dapper/flight-1/
[08:23] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: that's great.. ;)
[08:23] <ajmitch> even that will be outdated by now
[08:24] <JohnnyMast> yes but i can update the packages from there
[08:24] <selinium> LaserJock, I have looked at Universe candidates, but when I have chosen one, then what? :)
[08:25] <LaserJock> selinium: go to the URL, download the source, and make a package out of it
[08:26] <ajmitch> assuming that you want to package something from scratch :)
[08:28] <JohnnyMast> well thats the fun isnt it ?
[08:28] <JohnnyMast> packaging ...
[08:28] <selinium> LaserJock, That is the point, I have never made a package, am I supposed to be able to just by downloading Pbuilder? This is getting a little obstructive.... :(   I am really pro-ubuntu and would like to give back, but I keep finding myself stumbling at the first hurdle. I want to help but I need help to get started... :) Like a walkthrough, 'My First Ubuntu Package' type of thing, without that, I am lost..
[08:29] <Amaranth> selinium: You need the Debian New Maintainer's Guide
[08:29] <LaserJock> selinium: join #ubuntu-motu-school
[08:29] <selinium> LaserJock, I am waiting until 17:00 on the 10th for that to start!
[08:29] <selinium> ::)
[08:30] <JohnnyMast> it will be amasing
[08:30] <LaserJock> selinium: well, maybe I can help before ajmitch totally rocks the MOTU Wannabe world ;-)
[08:31] <JohnnyMast> hahahaha
[08:31] <selinium> I am really looking forward to it, but I will not be able to 'attend' on Saturday :( I will just have to read the logs!
[08:32] <ajmitch> LaserJock: excuse me?
[08:32] <ajmitch> LaserJock: please, don't advertise my talk as a packaging howto
[08:32] <ajmitch> otherwise people will get confused
[08:33] <ajmitch> bbiab
[08:33] <LaserJock> ajmitch: sorry, but it will be about packaging right? just a specific topic
[08:33] <JohnnyMast> its a dh_make lecture right ?
[08:34] <JohnnyMast> that will fit selinium`s plans
[08:34] <LaserJock> JohnnyMast: i didn't think he was even going to use dh_make
[08:36] <Amaranth> it's a dpkg-dev talk :P
[08:39] <ajmitch> JohnnyMast: no, definitely not using dh_make
[08:39] <ajmitch> too many people use that without understanding what is going on
[08:40] <JohnnyMast> so it will be a dtailed explaination about dirs and files and procedurs
[08:42] <Amaranth> if cdbs breaks, i'll file a bug on it
[08:42] <Amaranth> otherwise i don't need to care what is happening underneath
[08:42] <ajmitch> Amaranth: yes you do :)
[08:47] <selinium> ajmitch, have you got a page in motu explaining what lesson is to be held, previous lessons with a link to the log....
[08:47] <selinium> Or anywhere?
[08:47] <ajmitch> there might be one, I can't recall where
[08:50] <slomo> siretart: the motumedia list is down :/ at least all my bug changes in malone didn't get to there
[08:50] <siretart> slomo: err, huh?
[08:51] <siretart> slomo: that would mean that I wouldnt get any mails. I don't think the list is down
[08:51] <slomo> siretart: then it's maybe only LP beeing slow?
[08:51] <siretart> slomo: I think so
[08:52] <siretart> mails on tauware.de are fairly fast, because the system is generally low loaded
[08:52] <slomo> ok... let's wait :)
[08:53] <slomo> wtf... http://www.thedailywtf.com/forums/52887/ShowPost.aspx
[09:07] <ajmitch> ok, I'm back
[09:08] <raphink> welcome back then
[09:08] <raphink> :)
[09:11] <crimsun> ooh, very cool. Intel donated 10 laptops for Debian developers in developing countries.
[09:15] <ajmitch> crimsun: does NZ count as developing? :)
[09:16] <crimsun> ajmitch: I doubt it ;)
[09:21] <raphink> crimsun: oh that's nice :)
[09:21] <raphink> I doubt France counts as developing either :(
[09:22] <raphink> hehe
[09:25] <Riddell> ooh, new libtunepimp has plugins.  an end to the lack of mp3 support
[09:27] <raphink> :)
[09:28] <Riddell> does mean a whole libtunepimp transition though, but I should be able to manage that
[09:28] <raphink> Riddell: would you have some time to review some of my package ?
[09:28] <Riddell> raphink: hmm, maybe, what's needing done again?
[09:29] <raphink> Riddell: kyamo (http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1075 ) has never been reviewed
[09:29] <raphink> Riddell: then I've made a slight change in kubuntu-grub-splashimages ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1071 )
[09:30] <raphink> Riddell: and konq-encrypt-menu ( http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1027 ) should take about 1 minute to review :)
[09:30] <raphink> hehe
[09:34] <ajmitch> fun, people reporting known dapper problems on the devel list
[09:35] <raphink> ajmitch : can I work on merges without being a MOTU?
[09:35] <crimsun> absolutely
[09:35] <ajmitch> of course
[09:35] <raphink> how so?
[09:35] <ajmitch> most of the people working on them aren't motus
[09:35] <raphink> ok
[09:35] <ajmitch> merge, test, put upa  debdiff for review
[09:35] <raphink> :)
[09:36] <raphink> what is there to do on them?
[09:36] <raphink> I've tried to understand the way to work on merges but I'm not sure of it
[09:36] <ajmitch> merging ;)
[09:36] <raphink> hehe
[09:36] <ajmitch> making sure that we have the debian changes & relevant ubuntu changes
[09:36] <raphink> so I get the current ubuntu source, current debian source
[09:36] <ajmitch> knowing what is relevant is key :)
[09:36] <raphink> compare them
[09:36] <ajmitch> you get the MoM output
[09:36] <ajmitch> which has already done most of the work
[09:36] <raphink> MoM = ?
[09:36] <raphink> Master of Main ? ;)
[09:36] <ajmitch> mergeomatic
[09:36] <raphink> hehe
[09:36] <raphink> ok
[09:37] <ajmitch> see the merge page for details
[09:37] <raphink> where do I find taht?
[09:37] <ajmitch> http://revu.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new
[09:37] <raphink> ok
[09:37] <raphink> I'll look at it
[09:37] <raphink> thanks
[09:37] <ajmitch> look at a package, the package name should link to MoM
[09:37] <raphink> ok :)
[09:37] <ajmitch> ones with a big red YES in the last column require c++ library renaming
[09:38] <Riddell> bah, amarok doesn't compile against new libtunepimp
[09:38] <raphink> ajmitch : so that's just a modif in debian/control?
[09:38] <ajmitch> yes
[09:38] <ajmitch> and often rules
[09:38] <crimsun> against the transitioned one? that's odd.
[09:38] <ajmitch> and often renaming install files
[09:38] <crimsun> oh, new != necessarily transitioned
[09:39] <raphink> ok
[09:39] <TheMuso> Hey all.
[09:39] <raphink> I'll have a look at this
[09:39] <raphink> I just saw that I think I didn't send a patch from a package I made :(
[09:40] <raphink> bad me
[09:43] <herve> hello
[09:43] <ajmitch> hi herve
[09:44] <herve> someone has the deadline in mind about a new package making it into the universe?
[09:44] <ajmitch> yes
[09:44] <ajmitch> feature freeze if it doesn't require lib upgrades
[09:44] <ajmitch> UVF otherwise
[09:45] <ajmitch> that't the general rule
[09:45] <ajmitch> wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseProcess for the details
[09:45] <herve> that sounds like good news
[09:45] <herve> ha, thanks for the link
[09:46] <ajmitch> (as discussed before & at UBZ) ;)
[09:46] <herve> yes, but I'm quite away from the buzz
[09:46] <herve> not to mention from Canada ;-)
[09:48] <ajmitch> sure :)
[09:52] <LaserJock> hmm, that was fun
[09:56] <ajmitch> goody, another package where our changes can be dropped
[09:56] <ajmitch> hi \sh
[09:57] <ajmitch> hm yes
[09:58] <ajmitch> I see that it was crimsun's fault anyway
[09:58] <crimsun> cough?
[09:58] <ajmitch> crimsun: not filing merge bugs
[09:58] <\sh> I just resigned
[09:58] <ajmitch> so I took a look at the package
[09:58] <crimsun> ajmitch: for which?
[09:58] <ajmitch> pysol
[09:58] <\sh> fuck#
[09:58] <\sh> no job#
[09:59] <\sh> no perspektive
[09:59] <crimsun> ajmitch: ah, yeah, I left a comment
[09:59] <\sh> I FUCKING JUST RESINGED
[09:59] <ajmitch> \sh: oh? I knew it was coming real soon now
[09:59] <ajmitch> crimsun: I just saw that
[09:59] <ajmitch> crimsun: how many others will be like that?
[10:00] <crimsun> ajmitch: I believe siretart has retitled the rest
[10:00] <LaserJock> \sh: have you gotten any leads on other jobs?
[10:00] <ajmitch> \sh: more time for dapper for now?
[10:00] <ajmitch> crimsun: ok..
[10:00] <\sh> LaserJock: no...and it doesn't interest me
[10:00] <\sh> ajmitch: sure
[10:01] <ajmitch> crimsun: looks like I shouldn't have bothered filing most of these py* merge bugs then
[10:01] <Riddell> what's the best bugzilla query to find my merges?
[10:02] <ajmitch> bugs assigned to you, with merge in the title?
[10:03] <crimsun> ajmitch: all my current ones are assigned to me, so your py* bugs are valid with the exception of the ones just mentioned
[10:03] <ajmitch> ok
[10:04] <ajmitch> good to know before I start fixing & uploading :)
[10:04] <crimsun> certainly :)
[10:04] <\sh> if you want to know something..planet
[10:06] <ajmitch> ok
[10:06] <LaserJock> thierry_: hi
[10:06] <thierry_> LaserJock : hi
[10:07] <LaserJock> thierry_: do you know of any science packages that do have .desktop files?
[10:08] <thierry_> siretart : could you explain me more in details what's the work for the unmet deps? I mean how can I know if the package just need a rebuild or not...
[10:08] <thierry_> LaserJock : gperiodic, but it's in the education menu...
[10:08] <thierry_> LaserJock : that's the only one I have installed
[10:09] <LaserJock> thierry_: I was going to do a bug report at gnome to get a Science menu but the problem is that right now so few the the science packages have .desktop file that there would be only a couple of items in the menu :(
[10:10] <thierry_> LaserJock : then let's create hundreds of .desktop files! :)
[10:11] <thierry_> LaserJock : go see there... I did a comment last day we were talking
[10:11] <thierry_> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140900
[10:11] <Ubugtu> gnome-icon-theme bug #140900: Science and Engineering toplevel menus Product: gnome-icon-theme, Component: general, Severity: minor, Assigned to: jimmac@ximian.com, Status: NEW http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=140900
[10:12] <herve> \sh, the german law is ok with that kind of taunting?
[10:12] <thierry_> LaserJock : seriously I think we should do something like a .desktop day... the list of package without .desktop file is so longggg!
[10:12] <LaserJock> thierry_: yes, but I talked to seb128 on -devel and he said to report a new bug against gnome-menus and dep on that one
[10:12] <thierry_> k
[10:12] <LaserJock> thierry_: I agree
[10:14] <thierry_> LaserJock : my opinion is Go ahead and create that bug, then I'll understand exactly what we need to do and I can promise I would be able to create 2-3 patch a day everyday for the .desktop (I solved all https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UniverseDesktopFileAbsolutePath myself, with the explanations of seb128)
[10:15] <thierry_> maybe that would also help me to get the MOTU status... dream on....
[10:15] <LaserJock> ok, thierry_ I am going to send an email to the ubuntu-science list about it and do the bug report
[10:16] <thierry_> cool, now if you had the time to show how to nicely create .desktop file (well mainly all the stuff around like dirs, rules and control) I could start right now making .desktop file for all your sciences apps
[10:17] <LaserJock> thierry_: maybe, but one thing at a time. I gotta get some real life work done too ;-)
[10:18] <thierry_> LaserJock : k sorry, didn't want to stop you doing important stuff... maybe another time then...
[10:21] <thierry_> LaserJock : so I still create categories in .desktop file for the science menu?
[10:22] <LaserJock> thierry_: yes, I believe so, but you might check to see where they endup in the menu. I prefer Education over Other
[10:23] <thierry_> LaserJock : k but if we endup with the science menu, we would have to change everything?
[10:24] <LaserJock> thierry_: I don't think so
[10:24] <thierry_> k
[10:24] <LaserJock> thierry_: just a sec, let me check something out
[10:24] <thierry_> k
[10:37] <siretart> thierry_: we have not settled on the procedure dealing with unmet deps
[10:37] <\sh> herve: no
[10:38] <thierry_> siretart : ho ok... so I can't help?
[10:39] <ajmitch> hi siretart
[10:39] <ajmitch> s/lie/lite/
[10:39] <ajmitch> hi ogra*
[10:40] <siretart> ajmitch: madison-lie is correct for tiber
[10:40] <siretart> ajmitch: because I b0rked the config :(
[10:40] <ajmitch> oh?
[10:40] <raphink> hi ogra[_] 
[10:41] <siretart> ajmitch: if you have a working config for it, just dump the config on tiber. it is broken
[10:41] <ajmitch> no, I just copied the config from tiber
[10:41] <ajmitch> what is broken for you?
[10:41] <LaserJock> thierry_: ok, I just made a Science menu on my machine and made a .desktop entry
[10:41] <siretart> thierry_: currently we defer unmet deps after uvf
[10:41] <siretart> thierry_: because we still have some transitions ongoing, so many unmets deps will be fixed as sideeffect
[10:41] <siretart> thierry_: after UVF, we can focus on that
[10:42] <ajmitch> upstream version freeze
[10:42] <raphink> ok :)
[10:42] <LaserJock> thierry_: but if I use Categories=Application;Science;Education it is both the Science and Education menus
[10:42] <ajmitch> where we don't take in new upstream versions (but was can still make changes)
[10:42] <raphink> talking of ?
[10:43] <raphink> ok
[10:43] <raphink> so it's the version freeze for stable
[10:43] <raphink> right?
[10:43] <ajmitch> for dapper
[10:44] <raphink> yep
[10:44] <ajmitch> breezy is considered stable :)
[10:44] <raphink> :)
[10:44] <raphink> yes
[10:44] <ajmitch> we don't have the split like debian does
[10:44] <raphink> that's what I meant
[10:44] <raphink> when is that to happen?
[10:44] <raphink> how long before the release?
[10:45] <ajmitch> wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperReleaseSchedule
[10:45] <raphink> thanks
[10:46] <raphink> interesting :)
[10:46] <thierry_> LaserJock : ok but anyway, when if we get that science menu, we'll have two appearance of each science program in the menu
[10:48] <raphink> ajmitch : so in the end of the process there's mostly merges and bug fixing, right?
[10:48] <thierry_> siretart : and what's UVF?
[10:48] <ajmitch> raphink: oh yes
[10:48] <ajmitch> not merges
[10:48] <raphink> ok
[10:48] <ajmitch> but lots & lots of bugfixing
[10:48] <Hieronym1s> thierry_: upstream version freeze, I think
[10:48] <ajmitch> merges is the first part, since it's mostly new upstream versions
[10:48] <ajmitch> thierry_: see my explanation above
[10:48] <LaserJock> thierry_: right, so I don't know if it better to just put Science and wait until the menu has bee created or what
[10:49] <raphink> what is the role of MOTUs in bug fixing?
[10:49] <raphink> fixing all universe bugs?
[10:49] <siretart> thierry_: UVF = upstream version freeze
[10:49] <siretart> mid january, I think\
[10:49] <ajmitch> raphink: sure ;)
[10:50] <ajmitch> a lot of it is simply making things installable
[10:50] <ajmitch> there can be a lot of bugs
[10:50] <ajmitch> and hopefully  most can be fixed in debian
[10:50] <raphink> ok
[10:50] <raphink> :)
[10:50] <thierry_> LaserJock : well... we have about one month until upstream version freeze to make our change so we'll see if the menu appears in gnome or not...
[10:51] <LaserJock> thierry_: I suppose if we just have Science then it can't be any worse than it is now ;-)
[10:51] <thierry_> LaserJock : right, so we put only science?
[10:52] <LaserJock> thierry_: if they have educational value then I think it is good to put them in Education, otherwise do Science.
[10:52] <LaserJock> thierry_: if you need help telling the difference email the ubuntu-science list an we can debate it :-)
[10:53] <thierry_> LaserJock : no problem :) ... but I'll first try to create a .desktop file and all the stuff around it to work correctly
[10:54] <LaserJock> thierry_: right, it's great to have somebody working on that. Keep up the good work
[10:55] <thierry_> LaserJock : thanks... but I would really need someone coaching me about .desktop file and all the stuff around, would you think asking my questions on particular point on the MOTU list would be a poblem? I mean for the MOTU, because it's really newbie questions...
[10:56] <LaserJock> thierry_: I would just ask here or just get a hold of me. I got to run some errands right now but I will be back later
[10:56] <thierry_> LaserJock : I already opened malone bug 5399 if you want to take a fast look...
[10:56] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5399: [PATCH]  adding a .desktop file to geg In: geg (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5399
[10:56] <ajmitch> yay, updating madison-lite is working
[10:57] <thierry_> k
[10:57] <thierry_> LaserJock : thanks, I'll ask here then
[10:58] <ajmitch> siretart: I'll remove my debugging hacks & put the fixed script back on tiber
[10:59] <siretart> ajmitch: thanks a lot
[10:59] <ajmitch> siretart: it was just variable clobbering
[11:01] <thierry_> to get dapper source package do I just "apt-get source $package" ?
[11:01] <ajmitch> thierry_: assuming you're running dapper or have the sources for dapper configured in /etc/apt/sources.list
[11:02] <thierry_> ajmitch : ok but if I'm running brezzy and that I only want to get the source of dapper, but not configuring my whole apt-get for dapper?
[11:03] <ajmitch> then just configure your deb-src lines
[11:03] <ajmitch> or do it in a chroot
[11:04] <\sh> ok...guys....cu tomorrow...from home :)
[11:04] <ajmitch> bye \sh
[11:05] <\sh> fuck I did it
[11:06] <ajmitch> siretart: ok, test out madison-lite now
[11:07] <ajmitch> hm, 1 error still remaining
[11:08] <siretart> ajmitch: interesting error
[11:08] <siretart> but thanks for fixing!
[11:08] <ajmitch> it gets the architecture list from the directory structure
[11:09] <ajmitch> the update script was trying to fetch restricted, universe, etc, from debian
[11:09] <ajmitch> fixed that
[11:10] <siretart> ajmitch: thanks
[11:10] <ajmitch> no problem :)
[11:11] <siretart> ajmitch: this means /usr/local/bin/update-madison-lite-mirror is safe to run?
[11:12] <ajmitch> that's what I was fixing
[11:12] <ajmitch> & I've run it again
[11:12] <siretart> great
[11:32] <dholbach> good night everybody
[11:32] <ajmitch> night dholbach
[11:32] <LaserJock> gnight dholbach
[11:32] <shawarma> dholbach: G'night.
[11:33] <dholbach> night guys
[11:34] <bojan_> good night @ all
[11:41] <ajmitch> hm, looks like kdevelop3 still needs rebuilt
[11:45] <JohnnyMast> firefox is broken on my dapper
[11:46] <JohnnyMast> :(
[11:47] <ajmitch> welcome to dapper
[11:48] <JohnnyMast> hehe yeah well now i see why your so bussy bug fixing hehe
[11:49] <Evaso2> hi i doesn't know if could be helpfull for motu team but there is a list of package not in sync with his upstream version ordered by popcon values. There are also available upstream NEWS/Changelogs when you click on the upstream version number. If anybody would test it could find here: http://dehs.alioth.debian.org/no_updated.html
[11:50] <JohnnyMast> popcorn ?
[11:50] <JohnnyMast> ow popcon
[11:50] <ajmitch> we'd prefer that debian maintainers update the packages themselves :)
[11:51] <ajmitch> mainly because it avoids huge duplication
[11:51] <Evaso2> ajmitch: is debian not you upstream? :)
[11:51] <ajmitch> Evaso2: yes, which is why I said that
[11:51] <ajmitch> we can update the packages if we had time
[11:51] <ajmitch> or if there was need
[11:52] <Evaso2> well this are deiban packages in unstable/experimantl not in sync with upstream version and there is also upstream NEWS/Changelog available
[11:52] <ajmitch> I know :)
[11:54] <Evaso2> so anybody could know what feautures are not in debian and what upstream bugs are not fixed and so also in motu
[11:54] <Evaso2> motu/universe
[11:56] <Evaso2> ajmitch: there are many packages that doesn't have good watch file :) fills wishlist bugs to maintainers :)
[11:56] <lifeless> morning all
[11:56] <ajmitch> 'upstream bugs' being just bugs tagged upstream in debian's BTS
[11:56] <ajmitch> hi lifeless
[11:56] <ajmitch> how's it going?
[11:56] <azeem> Evaso2: how do you know which upstream bugs are fixed in new uploads?
[11:56] <azeem> are you just looking at fixed-upstream tags?
[11:57] <lifeless> not bad, except I seem to have hayfever/nasal cold. Can't stop sneezing.
[11:57] <Evaso2> ajmitch azzem: i see it in changelog
[11:58] <azeem> Evaso2: you check every upstream changelog?
[11:58] <Evaso2> azeem: when you click on upstream version number probably you find bugs fixed in the last upstream version
[11:59] <azeem> Evaso2: "probably"
[11:59] <Evaso2> azeem: for example if i'm interestend in lzo package i click on 2.02 version and i see all upstream bug fixed and new features added from 1.08 and 2.02
[11:59] <azeem> oh well
[12:00] <azeem> Evaso2: I thought you were talking about Debian bugs fixed upstream, not general upstream bugs
[12:01] <Evaso2> azeem: i mean general upstream bugs (i doesn't know if also are reported to debian maintainer and forwarded to upstream) and new features added that a debian/ubuntu user is missing