[12:12] <Nafallo> nafallo@darkelf:~ $ ls -l /dev/hdc
[12:12] <Nafallo> brw-r----- 1 root floppy 22, 0 2005-12-08 23:55 /dev/hdc
[12:12] <Nafallo> what have someone done now? :-)
[12:20] <jbailey> Nafallo: I take it you don't have an IDE floppy drive? =)
[12:20] <Nafallo> right :-)
[12:20] <Nafallo> group cdrom with rw access would be better :-)
[12:20] <jbailey> Hmm, I see the same thing here.
[12:21] <Nafallo> a bug then. would udev be a sane package guess? (should I file one or is it topic?)
[12:23] <jbailey> udev is the right place for this, yes.
[12:23] <jbailey> Probably best to file a bug.
[12:24] <jbailey> I'll try and poke Scott about it tomorrow, too.
[12:24] <Nafallo> yea. I hoped he was still alive now ;-)
[12:31] <Nafallo> Malone #5558 :-)
[01:33] <mdz> I think Keybuk fixed that already
[01:34] <Nafallo> I'm fully up-to-date and rebooted when I couldn't burn :-)
[01:34] <Nafallo> I don't have to run update-initramfs manually, right?
[01:34] <mdz> correct
[01:35] <Nafallo> well, I could reboot just for kicks :-)
[01:35] <Nafallo> brb
[01:39] <Nafallo> brw-r----- 1 root floppy 22, 0 2005-12-09 01:36 /dev/hdc
[01:41] <Nafallo> not fixed for me atleast.
[03:32] <jbailey> infinity: Awake?
[05:00] <infinity> jbailey : Was living in constant reboot-and-debug hell.  Around now.
[05:57] <Lewix> hi
 I have a laptop , toshiba M40/M45 serie and  I've downloaded the iso dvd of ubuntu. when I boot and type enter there's things that loads up then my screen goes black. as well with the dvd screen as with the install. I tried linux vga=771 with the live dvd because i want to be sure that it works before installing and I all seem to work till I got a erro message about xserver
[06:01] <infinity> This belongs in #ubuntu.
[06:02] <Lewix> they ignore me, abd I've been asking that for 3days
[06:05] <infinity> Right, well, if you can run the live system with vga=771, why not do the same with the installer?
[06:05] <infinity> There's plenty of help in the help screens on boot about how you can boot the CD differently.
[06:06] <Lewix> well I can boot like that with the installer but I prefer to test if the live cd works completly first and it doesnt
[06:07] <infinity> If X autodetection is going wrong for you, then you're even further offtopic for this channel than you already were. :P
[06:08] <infinity> (And you should probably file a bug, especially if you can't get help from #ubuntu, or the ubuntu-users mailing list)
[06:12] <Lewix> well thanks anyway
[01:02] <jbailey> Keybuk: g'm =)
[01:03] <Keybuk> hey
[01:03] <jbailey> Keybuk: Are you able to reproduce Malone #5558?  If not, I can.
[01:03] <Keybuk> hmm, learning guitar and typing is an odd combination
[01:03] <jbailey> I do that during medium length compiles. =)
[01:04] <Keybuk> jbailey: what version of udev?
[01:04] <jbailey>  077-0ubuntu3
[01:05] <Keybuk> what's the output of /lib/udev/cdrom_id --export /dev/hdc
[01:05] <jbailey> Mm, I see there is a new udev in the upgrade list today.
[01:05] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$ /lib/udev/cdrom_id --export /dev/hdc
[01:05] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$ sudo /lib/udev/cdrom_id --export /dev/hdc
[01:05] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$
[01:06] <Keybuk> hmm
[01:06] <Keybuk> you won't get a /dev/cdrom link for that either then
[01:07] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$ ls -al /dev/cdrom
[01:07] <jbailey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 2005-12-08 08:42 /dev/cdrom -> hda
[01:07] <jbailey> Right.
[01:07] <jbailey> Duh
[01:07] <jbailey> Lemme use hda instead. =)

[01:07] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$ /lib/udev/cdrom_id --export /dev/hda
[01:07] <jbailey> ID_CDROM=1
[01:07] <jbailey> ID_CDROM_CD_R=1
[01:07] <jbailey> ID_CDROM_CD_RW=1
[01:07] <jbailey> ID_CDROM_DVD=1
[01:07] <jbailey> ID_CDROM_DVD_R=1
[01:07] <Keybuk> want some coffee?
[01:07] <jbailey> ID_CDROM_RAM=1
[01:08] <jbailey> Sometimes it's tempting to take it up again. =)
[01:10] <Keybuk> is it sad that I lingered over a big book of musical songs and lyrics just for udev release names? :p
[01:11] <jbailey> Only a little.  I've been known to spend long enough picking the right Oscar Wilde (initramfs-tools) or Bertrand Russell (glibc) quotes that I felt guilty and made up the time =)
[01:25] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$ ls -al /dev/cdrom
[01:25] <jbailey> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 3 2005-12-09 07:23 /dev/cdrom -> hda
[01:25] <jbailey> jbailey@starshine:~$ ls -al /dev/hda
[01:25] <jbailey> brw-r----- 1 root floppy 3, 0 2005-12-09 07:22 /dev/hda
[01:25] <jbailey> Keybuk: This is with 077-0ubuntu4
[01:30] <Keybuk> udevinfo -a -p /block/hda
[01:30] <Keybuk> /lib/udev/cdrom_id --export /dev/hda
[01:31] <Keybuk> ...
[01:31] <Keybuk> then remove the strange "0" in the 40-permissions.rules (the line that runs cdrom_id), and udevplug /block/hda :p
[01:31] <Keybuk> KERNEL=="hd[a-z] |pcd[0-9] *0, \
[01:31] <jbailey> Do you want that udevinfo pasted here, or shall I skip to step 3?
[01:31] <jbailey> =)
[01:31] <Keybuk>                           ^ that should not be there
[01:32] <Keybuk> just skip it :p
[01:36] <jbailey> $ ls -al /dev/hda
[01:36] <jbailey> brw-r----- 1 root cdrom 3, 0 2005-12-09 07:22 /dev/hda
[01:36] <jbailey> Much better. =)
[01:36] <jbailey> Weel
[01:36] <jbailey> Almost good.
[01:36] <jbailey> =)
[01:37] <jbailey> Needs to be a MODE="0660" there?
[01:37] <jbailey> ENV{ID_CDROM}=="?*",                    GROUP="cdrom", MODE="0660"
[01:37] <Keybuk> yup
[01:37] <jbailey> I suspect its friends underneath want the same love.
[01:38] <Keybuk> the SCSI one will do
[01:38] <Keybuk> the pktcdvd won't, because those aren't removable anyway
[01:38] <Keybuk> (it's getting the 0640 from the first rule for all removables)
[01:39] <jbailey> Mmm, I was more thinking:
[01:39] <jbailey> KERNEL=="ht[0-9] *",                     GROUP="tape"
[01:39] <jbailey> KERNEL=="nht[0-9] *",                    GROUP="tape"
[01:39] <jbailey> Probably need MODEs set on them as well.
[01:39] <Keybuk> tapes should be 0640 aiui
[01:40] <Keybuk> you only need +r to mount it
[01:40] <jbailey> Oh.
[01:40] <Keybuk> the +w lets you do things like eject and format them
[01:40] <jbailey> Are you thinking for restores as a user, writes as root?
[01:40] <Keybuk> at least, that's how it was explained to me
[01:40] <jbailey> Feh, we need capabilities.
[01:40] <Keybuk> no, the /dev permissions don't correspond to the mount-point permissions
[01:40] <jbailey> Oh, I see.
[01:40] <jbailey> That makes sense then.
[01:41] <Keybuk> the +w means you can send raw commands to the device
[01:41] <Keybuk> you can write to it even if the device is +r :p
[01:41] <jbailey> I guess that makes sense, or all users would have to be in the disk group to deal with a mounted filesystem. =)
[01:41] <Keybuk> yes
[01:41] <jbailey> 'k
[01:41] <Keybuk> they need +w on cd-roms to eject the buggers
[01:42] <Keybuk> as the eject command is a write-perm ioctl
[01:50] <Keybuk> Kamion: can we drop pcmcia-cs yet?
[01:53] <makx> "ln -s /usr/include/linux linux/include" is not suprisingly not enough, it goes then down to /usr/include/sys, /usr/include/features.h, /usr/include/gnu,..
[01:54] <makx> and then you get nice redefinitions.. :-P
[01:54] <Mithrandir> uhm, don't.
[01:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: no
[01:55] <makx> even before it wants an /usr/include/asm
[01:55] <Keybuk> Kamion: what's still holding on to it?
[01:55] <jbailey> makx: I think we currently copy the files in place, dono't we?
[01:55] <Kamion> Keybuk: still haven't done all the config migration
[01:55] <Keybuk> ah, right
[01:55] <makx>  mkdir -p linux/include;
[01:56] <makx> for x in /usr/src/linux-headers-2.6.12-1/include/*; do
[01:56] <makx> ln -s $$x linux/include;
[01:56] <makx> done
[01:56] <Kamion> Keybuk: and in any case I'm sort of inclined to keep it in main for one release anyway to make absolutely sure that migration works (the plan AFAIK is to make pcmcia-cs depend on pcmciautils)
[01:56] <makx> or whatever your fine linus-headers are.
[01:56] <jbailey> Hmm.
[01:56] <jbailey> Maybe this weekend I'll get a current lkh into shape for klibc.
[01:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: k, I'll have a rumage through its init script then ... it's taking ~3s here then bitching that PCMCIA WILL NOT WORK!
[01:57] <makx> jbailey: that would be extremly cool.
[01:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: what version?
[01:58] <Keybuk> 2ubuntu2
[02:00] <Kamion> bizarre, it's supposed to exit early
[02:00] <Kamion> sure you don't have an old init script due to conffile fun?
[02:00] <Keybuk> maybe, will look into it
[02:00] <Kamion> the start case should begin with:
[02:00] <Kamion>         if ! supported_kernel; then
[02:00] <Kamion>             log_failure_msg "Linux >= 2.6.13-rc1 requires pcmciautils instead of pcmcia-cs"
[02:00] <Kamion>             exit 1
[02:00] <Kamion>         fi
[02:00] <Keybuk> yeah I get that
[02:00] <Keybuk> it's just taking ~3s to get there
[02:00] <Keybuk> which for a "dead script" seems somewhat unfair
[02:01] <Keybuk> I think it's the sourcing of all the configuration that's taking the time
[02:02] <Kamion> oh it'll be calling laptop-detect
[02:02] <Keybuk> right, I might just put that kernel test right at the top and exit 0 without that silly error
[02:02] <Kamion> no, how about you try moving the laptop-detect call into start)
[02:03] <Keybuk> which is causing people to wail that their pcmcia cards aren't working
[02:03] <Keybuk> when they're not even trying
[02:03] <Kamion> hmm, well, I suppose the kernel test should happen for stop) anyway
[02:03] <Kamion> ok, I'll move it now
[02:04] <Keybuk> k
[02:05] <Kamion> I'm not so sure about removing the error
[02:05] <Kamion> I take your point, but it would suck for the script to do nothing without telling you why
[02:05] <Keybuk> I am
[02:05] <Keybuk> boot-time is not a place to put errors and warnings
[02:06] <Keybuk> unless something has actually gone wrong
[02:06] <Kamion> /etc/init.d/pcmcia start is something that people often call other than at boot time though
[02:06] <Kamion> or at least used to
[02:06] <Kamion> how about I make the message less scary and exit 0
[02:07] <Kamion> I really don't want it to say nothing at all
[02:07] <Keybuk> we shouldn't have a message there at all
[02:07] <Kamion> it should say something if you call it by hand
[02:07] <Keybuk> sure, that I can agree with
[02:07] <Kamion> can we make it not say something in usplash?
[02:07] <Keybuk> there's a tty trick in one of the other init scripts to do that, I think
[02:25] <Kamion> do you happen to know which one? can't find it here
[02:25] <Kamion> I could just pidof usplash ...
[02:26] <Kamion> kinda sucks though
[02:28] <infinity> I have hideous logic in /etc/init.d/console-screen.sh to determine if we're being run from init.
[02:29] <jbailey> If parent pid is 1?
[02:29] <infinity>         if [ -n "$previous" ]  && [ -n "$runlevel" ]  || [ "$runlevel" = "S" ] ; then
[02:29] <infinity>           # We're being run from within init
[02:29] <Keybuk> jbailey: parent of init scripts is rc
[02:29] <infinity> If parent 1 is too simple.  And I was half asleep when doing this a week before release.
[02:29] <jbailey> Keybuk: Ah, right.
[02:29] <Keybuk> in fact, probably
[02:29] <Keybuk> init
[02:29] <Keybuk>   sh (rc)
[03:24] <Nafallo> Keybuk: hi! want to squash Malone 5558 with me? :-)
[03:25] <Nafallo> Keybuk: are those commands you wanted me to run from inside the initramfs or from the booted system? :-)
[03:28] <jbailey> Nafallo: Keybuk and I got 5558 this morning.
[03:28] <jbailey> I don't know if he's uploaded a new udev or not to fix it, though.
[03:28] <Nafallo> ah, kewl :-)
[03:29] <Nafallo> someone should update that bug then ;-)
[03:39] <jbailey> Nafallo_away: Done. =)
[03:49] <Keybuk> not yet, I tend to save up minor annoyances like that for when I notice the really big "Dude, Where's My Root Filesystem" kind of bugs
[03:52] <jbailey> I think this removes the ability to burn CDs and such.
[03:53] <Keybuk> yeah, but it's a) comparitively minor
[03:53] <Keybuk> and b) involves me finding yet more musical lyrics

[03:57] <Keybuk> if nothing major has come up by monday, I'll do it then
[03:57] <Keybuk> I think 078 is coming out over the weekend anyway
[04:49] <Nafallo> :-)
[04:50] <jbailey> Keybuk: Those are lyrics from musicals, right?
[05:20] <infinity> I almost spit all over my keyboard when I read the Buffy Musical quote.
[05:20] <infinity> Not sure I want to admit to being enough of a nerd to have recognized it, but there you go.
[05:38] <jbailey> I'm only halfway through the second season.
[07:10] <makx> hmm jbailey could you look at the last message of #337033
[07:10] <makx> im not famaliar with the ppc64 error messages for ramdisks
[07:10] <makx> "RAMDISK: incomplete write (-28 != 32768) 8388608"
[07:11] <jbailey> makx: It means the kernel isn't willing to take a ramdisk of that size.
[07:11] <jbailey> makx: Try rebooting and adding "ramdisk_size=10240" to the command line.
[07:11] <jbailey> Why is the initrd > 8megs?
[07:11] <jbailey> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 7266697 2005-12-09 07:14 /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-7-powerpc64-smp
[07:11] <jbailey> On my ppc64 here.
[07:12] <makx> -rw------- 1 root root 4965455 2005-12-09 17:32 initrd.img-2.6.14-2-powerpc64
[07:12] <makx> according to bug reporter
[07:13] <makx> does he need to throw "lilo" or something similar for reboot?
[07:13] <makx> s/for/before/
[07:23] <jbailey> Could be.
[07:33] <makx> ok thanks told him.
[07:43] <jbailey> Keybuk: http://lwn.net/Articles/162779/ - Is this creppy idea the right way to eventually support USB for LTSP folks?
[08:53] <fabbione> USB over IS?
[08:53] <fabbione> I
[08:54] <fabbione> argh
[08:54] <fabbione> IP
[08:54] <fabbione> i already saw that a while ago.. LTSP guys were talking about it at UDU