[12:02] <jbailey> psusi: Right.  I'll assign this to Adam Conrad.  he's handling initramfs-tools now.
[12:05] <psusi> jbailey: ahh... ok...
[12:06] <psusi> hopefully those scripts are correct and can then be integrated into the dmraid package, and then that package added to the main seed
[12:06] <jbailey> One of these days I'm going to have to get people to explain to me their anti-sendmail bias.
[12:06] <slomo> lamont: ping?
[12:06] <psusi> sendmail was a source of a LOT of remote root exploits over the years for one... for another, it is a royal pain to configure iirc
[12:06] <jbailey> There hasn't been an exploit in *years* in it.  Configs that are dozens of lines long are maybe 4 or 5 lines in sendmail.
[12:07] <lamont> slomo: ack
[12:07] <jbailey> psusi: The biggest configuration problems that people have is that they try to edit sendmail.cf, I think.
[12:07] <SEJeff> Overcomplex config files *cough* m4 macros are more likely to be misconfigured
[12:07] <slomo> lamont: do you read what someone said to your lamont-away nick? ;) can you give-back banshee on ppc? and what happened to mod-mono now? :)
[12:09] <jbailey> SEJeff: Do you think so?  Hmm.
[12:09] <jbailey> I always liked the fact that there was a compile pass that would usually catch the worst of my mistakes.
[12:10] <SEJeff> jbailey: That is a general rule. Most "hacks" stem from misconfigured software. Difficulty in configuration is directly proportional to security in most cases
[12:10] <SEJeff> jbailey: See apache. apachectl configtest.
[12:10] <SEJeff> jbailey: The apache config is human readable (arguably) sendmail.cf is not
[12:11] <jbailey> Well, sendmail's exploits at the time were because the Berkley people regularily did acid before coding.
[12:11] <jbailey> sendmail.cf is not intended to be treated like a config file any more than a compiled executable is.
[12:12] <jbailey> The fact that some of us *cough*lamont*cough* can occasionally read compiled executables doesn't mean it's a good idea.
[12:12] <SEJeff> jbailey: I realize that, but do you see my point?
[12:12] <SEJeff> od is your friend :)
[12:12] <lamont> slomo: lamont-away and lamont are two diff machines...
[12:12] <jbailey> I don't actually.  Your statement still treats it like a config file.  What screws with me about postfix and (worse) exim is that the config files are always more than a page long.
[12:12] <jbailey> I haven't a hope of keeping it all in my heda.
[12:12] <jbailey> s/heda/head/
[12:13] <jbailey> Especially when trying to match braces, or make sure that semicolons are lined up and such.
[12:13] <jbailey> My biggest attraction to sendmail is usually that my mail config has no reason to be more than about 4 lines long.
[12:14] <SEJeff> jbailey: The more difficult software is to configure, the higher the probability of misconfiguration. The higher the probability of misconfiguration, the lower the security. Most hacks come from misconfigured software
[12:14] <jbailey> Right.  Your argument there seems in support of sendmail.
[12:14] <SEJeff> Surely that is rational
[12:15] <SEJeff> Easy configuration != sendmail
[12:16] <jbailey> I'm just looking.  Literally a 3 line configuration file to act as a mail hub.
[12:16] <SEJeff> I would say that more lines that are easier to read is less prone to errors than less lines and more difficulty to read
[12:17] <SEJeff> In some ways, I equate sendmail to gnu hurd. It was designed overly complex from the start. That is it's main problem
[12:17] <jbailey> Mmm, I think GNU Hurd's failings are far simpler than that. =)
[12:18] <jbailey> I think that the maintainers of the software have never had any interest in seeing it finished.  So they would never accept a hack to make it work, all patches had to be correct instead.
[12:19] <SEJeff> I was making a very loose analogy
[12:19] <jbailey> SEJeff: Ah.  I was until recently one of the main debian hurd-i386 porters. =)
[12:19] <SEJeff> Sendmail works very well. It is just grossly "over-engineered"
[12:19] <SEJeff> nice
[12:20] <SEJeff> If it was designed to be a bit more simple from the beginning (similar to qmail) it likely would have had less security problems
[12:21] <jbailey> I truly think that sendmail's security history stems more from the fact that until the mid 90's noone cared about programming securely.
[12:22] <SEJeff> You are right, but a simpler codebase is easier to audit
[12:22] <jbailey> And by the mid 90's sendmail was old enough to have acquired *alot* of history. =)
[12:22] <SEJeff> true true
[12:49] <marian> z600cups-1.0-1.gz.sh
[01:12] <GnuKemist> ogra, hi... busy?
[01:13] <GnuKemist> stub, hi... u around?
[01:13] <stub> ?
[01:13] <GnuKemist> stub, I'm OgMaciel
[01:13] <GnuKemist> stub, we talked last night
[01:14] <GnuKemist> stub, about changing my email
[01:14] <GnuKemist> in launchpad
[01:14] <GnuKemist> remember me?
[01:15] <stub> Sure
[01:15] <GnuKemist> stub, can I pvt?
[01:17] <stub> pervert?
[01:18] <GnuKemist> private
[01:18] <GnuKemist> hehe
[01:18] <\sh> tstststs
[01:18] <stub> Sure
[01:18] <GnuKemist> \sh, hi
[01:18] <\sh> hey og :) how's life?
[01:18] <GnuKemist> \sh, so far so cold... =)
[01:18] <GnuKemist> \sh, you?
[01:18] <\sh> hehee....
[01:19] <\sh> GnuKemist: see planet...and excuse my words :)
[01:19] <GnuKemist> \sh, hold on
[01:20] <GnuKemist> \sh, read this in the meantime...  =)  http://blog.ogmaciel.com/?p=28
[01:21] <GnuKemist> \sh, that really sucks man...  all I can say is wish you a better job next time...  I sort of did the same about 15 months ago
[01:21] <\sh> GnuKemist: hmmm....is portugese? I can understand "apri of 2006"
[01:21] <GnuKemist> hehe
[01:22] <GnuKemist> \sh, sent you the portuguese version
[01:22] <GnuKemist> hehe
[01:22] <GnuKemist> sorry
[01:22] <GnuKemist> hold up
[01:22] <GnuKemist> \sh, here... http://www.ogmaciel.com/?p=219
[01:22] <\sh> GnuKemist: the job was good and the people were good as well..but those new bosses..with their non human attitude ... sorry..not my thing...and I told myself, be honest
[01:22] <GnuKemist> \sh, but feel free to ask me anything in portuguese ;)
[01:23] <GnuKemist> \sh, you know... unfortunately I ended up at another place where they treat people like garbage...  it is paying the bills...  =/
[01:24] <GnuKemist> stub, can anybody help me with my issue?
[01:24] <\sh> GnuKemist: well...it's "bom dia" right now :)
[01:24] <GnuKemist> \sh, yup... but for me (UTC - 5) is actually "boa noite"
[01:25] <mdke> GnuKemist, #launchpad?
[01:25] <\sh> GnuKemist: "bom dia" == good morning, right?
[01:25] <GnuKemist> mdke, went there already... thanx
[01:26] <GnuKemist> \sh, yup... boa noite == good evening
[01:26] <mdke> GnuKemist, they are the only people who can help with launchpad problems
[01:26] <Kamion> if anyone cares to figure out why the current installer images can't manage to reboot (ctrl-alt-del, or when you reach the end of the first stage), please be my guest
[01:26] <daniels> Kamion: 'nacht
[01:27] <GnuKemist> mdke, thanks...  I was told to look for elmo but was also talking to stub ... will move on with the subject though...  ;)
[01:33] <\sh> good night..
[01:33] <GnuKemist> \sh_away, night
[02:18] <mjg59> mono-best: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/beagle/libbeagleuiglue.so: undefined symbol: _ZN13nsCOMPtr_base25assign_from_gs_contractidE24nsGetServiceByContractIDRK4nsID
[02:18] <mjg59> Nngh.
[02:18] <mjg59> What is it with mono and shlibs breakage?
[02:27] <ajmitch> mjg59: it might be firefox love
[02:28] <ajmitch> we'll get beagle 0.1.3 in within a couple of days, I think
[02:31] <lamont-away> jbailey: grep -ve ^# -e ^$ /etc/postfix/main.cf | wc
[02:31] <lamont-away>      48     149    1564
[02:31] <lamont-away> and that's a _complex_ config
[02:31] <lamont-away> stock ubuntu config is about 12 lines long
[02:32] <sistpoty> elmo_: please sync childsplay from unstable, ubuntu override ok
[02:50] <YokoZar> Is there a way to give a nonroot user permission to use ports below 1024?
[02:51] <lifeless> you can probably do that with SELinux, but why
[02:53] <TerminX> does anyone know offhand when the KDevelop packages might be rebuilt to work with the newer stuff in Dapper?
[02:55] <sistpoty> TerminX: what do you mean with "work with the newer stuff in dapper"?
[02:55] <TerminX> kdevelop doesn't appear to be installable
[02:56] <TerminX> it looks like it hasn't been rebuilt with fixed dependencies and all that after the KDE 3.5 stuff went in
[02:57] <sistpoty> TerminX: since kdevelop is in universe, you might want to come to #ubuntu-motu and ask there
[02:58] <TerminX> ah
[03:09] <jbailey> lamont-away: Right, my criticism of bad configs was more targetted at exim than postfix.
[03:10] <jbailey> lamont-away: In postfix I couldn't figure out how to do some of the things I wanted, but I suspect that was me not finding the documentation rather than it not being possible.
[03:38] <spacey_ki> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion
[03:38] <spacey_ki> :o
[03:39] <spacey_ki> mozilla ffox faster then ubuntu build?
[03:39] <jdong> spacey_ki: not necessarily
[03:39] <jdong> spacey_ki: true for 1.0.x in Breezy
[03:39] <jdong> spacey_ki: untrue for any other builds for any other versions or any other releases
[04:05] <calc> anyone here happen to know why gdm would work with MergedFB mode but gnome itself just clones the same screen for both monitors?
[04:08] <currios84> x
[04:08] <calc> currios84: do you know how to properly setup MergedFB?
[04:08] <calc> i did the way i read on ubuntuforums but it doesn't seem to work for gnome itself, just for gdm :\
[04:17] <jamesh> calc: the xorg ATI drivers?
[04:18] <jamesh> I have this in the device section of xorg.conf: Option "CRT2Position" "RightOf"
[04:19] <jamesh> I've also got CRT2HSync, CRT2VRefresh and MetaModes set
[04:31] <calc> Section "Device" Identifier      "ATI Radeon 9600" Driver          "ati" BusID           "PCI:1:0:0" Option          "MergedFB"              "true" Option          "CRT2Position"          "RightOf" Option          "OverlayOnCRTC2"        "true"
[04:31] <calc> EndSection
[04:31] <calc> that is what i have on mine
[04:31] <calc> i'm using the open source drivers for 9600
[04:31] <calc> that are part of xorg in dapper
[04:40] <calc> MetaMode is required for it to work
[04:40] <calc> it would be nice if the manpage mentioned it must be defined... or else its cloned
[04:45] <calc> this dual head is at the limits of sanity
[05:24] <wasabi> Odd. I'm a bit curious why I have libc 2.3.5-6 installed... when the latest in Dapper is 2.3.5-1ubuntu17
[05:26] <infinity> Installed from sid?
[05:26] <wasabi> Not sure.
[05:26] <wasabi> I don't know why I would have done that.
[05:26] <wasabi> The most I've ever had from sid was the deb-src lines.
[05:57] <wasabi> Heh. highend and lowend kernels.
[05:57] <wasabi> Interesting seperation.
[05:59] <infinity> We were having a hard time coming up with good names to describe what they were meant for. :)
[06:00] <wasabi> One of these days there will be one kernel to rule them all.
[06:00] <wasabi> With all this special core stuff in modules.
[06:00] <infinity> If we used something meaningless like "Server" and "Enterprise Server", users would all just go and install the latter, assuming it has "cool enterprise features!"
[06:00] <infinity> In reality, the highend server kernel is for almost no one.  Wankload of CPUs, gobs of RAM, NUMA support, etc.
[06:02] <infinity> You'd be one of the few. :)
[06:02] <infinity> server-lowend will be fine for me.
[06:02] <HrdwrBoB> well realistically I need both 
[06:02] <infinity> 8 CPUs, 32G of RAM...
[06:03] <HrdwrBoB> depending on the boxes
[06:03] <infinity> If I had kit bigger than that, I'd be pretty happy, but...
[06:03] <HrdwrBoB> surely lowend has numa support for amd64
[06:04] <infinity> Why would it need to?
[06:06] <HrdwrBoB> because it would be faster?
[06:08] <infinity> ...
[06:09] <infinity> Does Linux actually keep track of which CPU owns the memory?
[06:10] <infinity> My understanding of amd64 was that, despite the memory controller being embedded in the CPUs, the system presented the RAM as one massive block.
[06:10] <infinity> But, I'll admit I haven't done much amd64 SMP.
[06:11] <infinity> Ahh, some quick googling shows I'm mistaken and Linux can actually do NUMA on amd64 kit.  Neat.
[06:13] <HrdwrBoB> I guess it depends on your definition of lowend
[06:19] <wasabi> SO what is NUMA anyways?
[06:19] <wasabi> Wait I can just look that up.
[06:19] <wasabi> gg lazyweb
[06:22] <infinity> HrdwrBoB : Well, our definition of lowend is pretty "high" to most people.
[06:22] <infinity> HrdwrBoB : Perhaps we should discuss this in #ubuntu-kernel at some point.
[06:23] <infinity> HrdwrBoB : For one thing< I'd like to see benchmarks of plain SMP versus NUMA on amd64 systems, since NUMA is an option there, not a necessity.
[06:23] <infinity> (As opposed to other systems, where no NUMA means no RAM, or missing lots of it)
[06:24] <infinity> s/amd64 systems/lowend amd64 systems/
[06:24] <infinity> I'm sure there are some crazy highend amd64 configurations that NEED NUMA.
[06:24] <infinity> I'm not so sure we boot on them. :)
[06:25] <HrdwrBoB> infinity: well I have a few single amd64 computers
[06:25] <HrdwrBoB> most of the servers are dual cpu, the higher end ones are dualcore-two way
[06:26] <HrdwrBoB> given the relative cheapness of an smp opteron box
[06:26] <HrdwrBoB> I would class a single amd64 machine as a desktop level machine, and a two way dualcore a low end server
[06:26] <HrdwrBoB> a high end server would be 4+ dualcore CPUs
[06:26] <fabbione> morning
[06:43] <HrdwrBoB> er... does anyone here use a HP DL385 and have a few minutes?
[06:49] <bob2_> how do I tell totem and firefox to never evr ever try to load the plugin to play movies?
[06:49] <bob2_> all it appear to do is crash firefox
[06:53] <jdub> bob2_: view and edit actions on the downloads page
[06:53] <jdub> bob2_: turn off the plugins
[06:54] <fabbione> hey jdub
[06:54] <jdub> yo fabbione 
[06:54] <fabbione> jdub: got a minute for me?
[06:54] <jdub> sure!
[06:54] <fabbione> cool
[06:54] <jdub> sineine made your list during the server transition btw, if you didn't already know
[08:13] <dholbach> hellas
[08:31] <torkel> HrdwrBoB: depends on the question :-)
[08:36] <wanglei1123> hello?
[08:36] <wanglei1123> is anyone here?
[08:36] <crimsun> (yes?)
[08:37] <wanglei1123> hi , is anyone can help me answer my question? 
[08:37] <Mithrandir> probably not, since you don't ask it.
[08:37] <wanglei1123> :)
[08:37] <Mithrandir> and also, this is not a support channel, so if it's not development related, please use #ubuntu instead.
[08:37] <wanglei1123> i wanna know , what script do the hardware scaning of installing ubuntu
[08:38] <wanglei1123> and what scripts recognize your scsi device and modprobe it ?
[08:39] <fabbione> wanglei1123: there is no such script.. it's all done by kernel/hotplug/udev
[08:39] <wanglei1123> and what scripts recognize your scsi device and modprobe it  when you installing ubuntu system, thank you sooo much !: )
[08:39] <fabbione> it's all kind of "automatic"
[08:39] <Mithrandir> udev just acts on the information exported by the kernel and available hardware
[08:40] <wanglei1123> udev and detect , recognize and modprobe my scsi device ? 
[08:40] <infinity> I've come to the conclusion that concordia is too slow.
[08:40] <Mithrandir> infinity: I told you that a long time ago, didn't I? :-P
[08:40] <infinity> Yes, well, I made the mistake of building something there.
[08:41] <infinity> Because my girlfriend's actually using her computer.  How dare she.
[08:41] <wanglei1123> hi everyone ,does udev and detect , recognize and modprobe my scsi device ? 
[08:41] <infinity> s/and detect//
[08:42] <wanglei1123> ? it doesn't make sense to me :(
[08:43] <wanglei1123> fabbione:  does udev can  detect , recognize and modprobe my scsi device ? 
[08:43] <fabbione> wanglei1123: stop flooding this channel
[08:43] <fabbione> we already answered your question
[08:43] <wanglei1123> sorry .......
[08:43] <fabbione> no actually i did
[08:43] <calc> anyone happen to know when usb hotplug mounting was added to ubuntu? i tried 4.10 live/install and 5.04 live so far and they don't actually mount
[08:43] <fabbione> or Mithrandir 
[08:43] <wanglei1123> but it still don't make sense to me ........
[08:44] <calc> i'm looking for what it does to add it to a custom debian dist
[08:44] <wanglei1123> Mithrandir: hi :)
[08:44] <wanglei1123> Mithrandir: hi : )
[08:44] <calc> but upon looking for it i can't seem to make it work :\
[08:44] <jdub> calc: it worked with warty
[08:45] <calc> i wonder if its some kind of weird interaction with vmware
[08:45] <calc> i'm running ubuntu under vmware where i am doing the testing (at work)
[08:47] <wanglei1123> ...
[08:48] <wanglei1123> anyone....
[08:48] <crimsun> wanglei1123: please migrate to #ubuntu. Your question has been answered already.
[08:48] <calc> crimsun: hi :)
[08:49] <crimsun> 'lo calc 
[08:49] <calc> crimsun: i found out recently i may have more time to work on linux again :)
[08:49] <wanglei1123> crimsun: thanks so much : ) 
[08:50] <calc> i'm going to be working with one of my friends at a company he started, so i won't have a commute anymore :)
[09:28] <pitti> Hi
[09:28] <crimsun> 'morning pitti :)
[09:30] <pitti> Hi crimsun 
[09:38] <siretart> fabbione: do you have some wmv files so that I can test mplayer/amd64?
[09:38] <siretart> morning, btw ;)
[09:40] <fabbione> siretart: i think the last mplayer is FTBFS on amd64
[09:40] <fabbione> indeed
[09:41] <siretart> fabbione: ok. will look into this now
[09:42] <fabbione> siretart: thanks. the culprit is to enable the w32codecs support. it's working fine from marillat archive, so i assume the fact that you disabled it at random have broken the stuff :)
[09:45] <siretart> fabbione: I think the marillat package build just by sheer luck. The build system slomo did is WAY saner
[09:46] <fabbione> siretart: well.. it FTBFS ;)
[09:46] <siretart> fabbione: first, I will fix the ftbfs, then I will compare our mplayer package with how marillat builds on amd64
[09:46] <fabbione> siretart: ok :=)
[09:46] <siretart> fabbione: do you have a media file for me to test afterwards?
[09:49] <fabbione> yes
[09:49] <fabbione> just any wvm you find on the net
[09:49] <fabbione> none of them play video
[10:14] <siretart> fabbione: suprisingly, marillat does not compile with --enable-win32 on amd64. now I'm a bit confused..
[10:18] <fabbione> siretart: ok, i will debug it and send you a patch
[10:21] <siretart> fabbione: I have found a wmv now, which can be played in both mplayers!
[10:22] <siretart> the new one and the one from breezy
[10:24] <siretart> fabbione: but it is wmv8. there seem indeed to be problems with wmv9
[10:24] <fabbione> yes that's correct
[10:25] <siretart> fabbione: for me, the correct solution seems to be the same approach as for openoffice: introduce a mplayer32 package for amd64, which is compiled in 32bit
[10:26] <Mithrandir> siretart: that's very, very crackful.
[10:26] <fabbione> siretart: dude.. it was working.. there is no need of mplayer32 or something
[10:26] <siretart> I tried a wmv9 file (I only have one here), but the breezy mplayer had problems with that, too
[10:26] <Mithrandir> : tfheen@thosu ~ > ldd /usr/bin/mplayer | wc -l
[10:26] <Mithrandir> 90
[10:26] <Mithrandir> you don't want to provide a 32 bit libkrb5support for mplayer, do you?
[10:26] <fabbione> siretart: probably i was using the marillat one in breezy.. check with that
[10:27] <siretart> fabbione: will do
[10:27] <siretart> Mithrandir: wtf mplayer needs krb5?!
[10:27] <fabbione> siretart: otherwise just gimme time.. mplayer is not first priority for me
[10:27] <fabbione> to fix at least ;)
[10:27] <Mithrandir> siretart: it is linked to something which is linked to something which is linked to kerberos, I guess.
[10:28] <fabbione> ldd /usr/bin/mplayer
[10:29] <fabbione>         libporn.so.0 => /usr/share/porn/libporn...
[10:29] <fabbione> ;)
[10:29] <Mithrandir> you, you, FHS-rampager
[10:29] <siretart> lol
[10:29] <fabbione> Mithrandir: the "share" was NOT a case :P
[10:40] <dholbach> elmo_: please sync libglademm2.4 from sid, ok to override, thank you
[10:40] <ogra> whops
[10:47] <siretart> fabbione: I just installed the original marillat mplayer binary on my amd64 system, and it is not able to play wmv9, too
[10:47] <siretart> and this was painful!
[10:48] <fabbione> siretart: ok i will look at it myself.. don't worry. thanks
[10:50] <pitti> Riddell: here?
[10:52] <siretart> fabbione: please let me know what you find out. every fucking webforum in the web claims that the only way to view wmv9 on amd64 is to compile a 32bit binary (which doesn't seem to be that hard, even suse lusers seem to manage it)
[10:52] <fabbione> ahahah
[10:52] <fabbione> ok
[10:52] <siretart> and I didn't succeed to play a wmv9 video with breezy's mplayer, like you claim. so now I'm a bit confused
[10:53] <ajmitch> hi
[10:53] <siretart> hi ajmitch 
[10:54] <fabbione> siretart: the main issue for me is to roll back to breezy to test
[10:54] <fabbione> siretart: i only have one amd64
[10:54] <fabbione> and it's doh.. running dapper
[10:54] <fabbione> ;)
[10:55] <siretart> fabbione: I'd love to upgrade my amd64 box to dapper, but I really need the *caugh* nvidia binary drivers  *caugh*
[10:55] <fabbione> siretart: they work..
[10:55] <fabbione> i am using them
[10:55] <siretart> they do?
[10:55] <fabbione> infinity: made them a while ago
[10:55] <fabbione> yeps
[10:55] <ajmitch> apparantly
[10:55] <siretart> cool!
[10:56] <fabbione> ajmitch: i am using them as we speak
[10:56] <fabbione> i am force to use them actually
[10:56] <siretart> hmmmmm :)
[10:56] <fabbione> otherwise my 3 heads setup doesn't work
[10:56] <ajmitch> ah
[10:56] <fabbione> speaking of which..
[10:56] <ajmitch> 3 sounds nice
[10:56] <fabbione> this weekend i could plug another 3 heads
[10:57] <ajmitch> another 3? how big a desk do you have?
[10:57] <siretart> fabbione: so you are hacking on multiseat?
[10:57] <fabbione> ajmitch: big
[10:57] <fabbione> siretart: no. it's just my fancy workstation
[10:57] <siretart> ah
[10:57] <fabbione> ajmitch: they would be 2 rows by 3
[10:57] <ajmitch> my desk is only big enough for 2 monitors :)
[10:57] <fabbione> ajmitch: well i did hack my desk too ;)
[10:58] <fabbione> there is a kitchen table 3 cm thick on top of a normal desk
[10:58] <fabbione> that helps in space and to distribute the weight along all desk
[10:58] <ajmitch> if I moved the spare computer I could fit another couple of screens on it
[11:09] <lbm> slomo_: around?
[11:11] <stewski> hi any edubuntu developers in
[11:12] <fabbione> stewski: #edubuntu is probably a better place to ask :)
[11:13] <stewski> cheers Im in there too
[11:13] <stewski> just found this review http://www.bloggingbaby.com/entry/1234000340071196/
[11:13] <dholbach> haha :)
[11:13] <stewski> might be useful feedback, just wanted to say keep up the amazing work
[11:14] <dholbach> stewski: i laughed, because it had the wrong observation about ogra being mr. shuttleworth :)
[11:14] <stewski> ah yeah I didnt pay much notice to that
[11:15] <stewski> I thought edu was primarily targeted at schools not home users (at the moment)
[11:15] <dholbach> stewski: but thanks for your words of praise, ogra will appreciate them
[11:15] <ajmitch> ogra = mark? haha
[11:15] <stewski> but fairly objective feedback I thought?
[11:15] <dholbach> (as everybody else who is involved)
[11:16] <ogra> i thin its corrected now .... at least the author said so in a mail last night
[11:16] <ajmitch> morning ogra :)
[11:16] <ajmitch> ogra: just think what fun you could have if you could sign his cheques ;)
[11:16] <stewski> lmao
[11:17] <ogra> ajmitch, he said it would be ok with him, but i'd have to take *all* his mail :P
[11:17] <stewski> I'm hoping to become a teacher and take ubu to school
[11:17] <stewski> s
[11:17] <dholbach> ogra: and you could hack on launchpad for him :)
[11:18] <ajmitch> dholbach: don't be so evil
[11:18] <ogra> heh
[11:19] <stewski> any tips for where to go to find out about setting edubuntu up as a LTSP thin client set up?
[11:20] <ogra> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
[11:21] <ogra> its done by default, you only need to edit one file post install ...
[11:22] <stewski> really sounds too good to be true :-)
[11:22] <ogra> heh
[11:23] <stewski> better get some space on my pcs and test this out
[11:23] <ogra> unlike the article claims, we dont target the home market in first place ;) thats only an addon ...
[11:23] <ogra> our main target is the ltsp managed classroom ;)
[11:23] <stewski> do you target at school hardware at all? Research Machines etc?
[11:24] <stewski> yeah I thought the article was kind of ascue for that, first schools later parents/home?
[11:24] <ogra> later we'll also do that ... thats only our first release, so a single classroom was targeted... we'll grow over releses
[11:24] <ogra> the current CD has both options (school and home) its just that chool is the default ;)
[11:25] <ogra> *school
[11:25] <stewski> Im thinking when in the UK weee directive comes in there will be plenty of PC recycling going on, should give the cause a real boost here at least
[11:25] <ogra> yeah :) 
[11:25] <stewski> cool do you have anything to do with the cutter project?
[11:26] <ogra> nope, never heard of it ...
[11:26] <stewski> http://www.cutterproject.co.uk/
[11:27] <stewski> Im studying at the moment but putting together details for FLOSS in schools in the UK
[11:28] <stewski> there have already been a couple of excellent examples, but I see what you guys as doing taking it to a new level
[11:28] <ogra> ah, yes i remember, there is a guy sometimes in #edubuntu from the cutter project
[11:31] <pitti> Riddell: I found yet another flaw in the xpdf patch; when you arrive, can you please ping me? then we sort out the patch together
[11:32] <stewski> xpdf and pdf handling in general under linux seems rather weak, or am I mising something?
[11:32] <pitti> stewski: define weak?
[11:32] <stewski> sorry yeah not helpful I know
[11:32] <stewski> copying text not possible
[11:33] <pitti> xpdf, poppler, evince, pdflatex, openoffice - they all deal well with PDFs
[11:33] <stewski> difficult to do anything with pdfs other than view
[11:33] <ogra> pitti, where is the reason for xpdf ? i thought we had switched everything to evince in breezy already
[11:34] <pitti> stewski: oh, yesterday I impressed my flatmate with that - I wrote 100 lines of python which take a PDF telephone bill and calculate the costs for the three people that use it :)
[11:34] <pitti> ogra: it's still in main in warty and hoary, and we can't change that :)
[11:34] <pitti> ogra: and the same code is in poppler, warty's cups, and kpdf and koffice
[11:35] <pitti> ... and tetex
[11:35] <ogra> sure, if you finally finish your time machine we can ! 
[11:35] <pitti> ogra: then I had to fix poppler instead of xpdf in warty and hoary, which doesn't make it any different :)
[11:35] <dholbach> ogra: the time machine is just a big box and around 100 lines of python code, pitti will make it happen
[11:36] <pitti> heh
[11:36] <pitti> we could fix vulns even before they appear in the wild :)
[11:36] <ogra> dholbach, i guess the box is the problem here :)
[11:36] <pitti> right at the time the author writes a vulnerable piece of code, we can retroactively hit him with a cluebat
[11:36] <dholbach> nono, that's easy too
[11:37] <stewski> a right I saw pdflatex but in terms of gui tools that work with pdf I seemed to have problems just grabbing a bit of text
[11:37] <stewski> although fair point could be user err
[11:37] <pitti> stewski: what's wrong with copy&paste from evince?
[11:37] <pitti> stewski: if you need the whole text with or without layout, pdftotext does fine; pdftohtml works well, too
[11:38] <stewski> thnx a bundle, jsut not aware of them
[11:38] <pitti> stewski: but if you look for something like Acrobat, then we have to disappoint you
[11:38] <stewski> well not having acrobats not a biggy
[11:38] <dholbach> how well does scribus work with that?
[11:38] <pitti> there is a reason Adobe can charge a good chunk of money for it (and it's indeed a good piece of software)
[11:39] <pitti> but most people don't need acrobat for the tasks they want to do
[11:39] <stewski> does evince handle pdf ona default ubuntu?
[11:39] <pitti> stealing a picture from a PDF, or a chunk of text can be done with less effort
[11:39] <pitti> sure
[11:39] <ogra> yup
[11:39] <stewski> oh my install mustve got monkeyd with :-) mines going for xpdf
[11:40] <stewski> cant think who couldve done that :-0
[11:40] <ogra> which version is that ? 
[11:40] <ogra> the older ones used xpdf
[11:40] <stewski> 5.04 upgrade to 5.10
[11:40] <ogra> ah, and you forgot ubuntu-desktop before upgrading ? 
[11:40] <pitti> stewski: I assume you removed ubuntu-desktop?
[11:41] <stewski> I didnt think I missed that but it possible
[11:41] <dholbach> seb128: !
[11:41] <ajmitch> hey seb128 
[11:41] <\sh> ok...time to get up..have a shower pack the rest of the company notebook stuff and go to my ex-office...get my ass whipped
[11:41] <ogra> tsk, seb128 what about your holiday you addict ...
[11:41] <stewski> gotta dash like I say, you guys are good eggs one and all! and thanks for the tips
[11:42] <pitti> we are 'good eggs'? is that good or bad?
[11:42] <ogra> heh
[11:42] <pitti> :)
[11:42] <ajmitch> good, I hope
[11:42] <ogra> i was wondering too
[11:43] <\sh> it's xmas time not easter time :) so we are good donkeys but not good eggs :)
[11:44] <seb128> hey everybody
[11:44] <pitti> Hi seb218
[11:44] <pitti> and seb128, too :)
[11:45] <ogra> hi seb128 :)
[12:40] <lunitik> Is there any way you could sink packages from wine.sf.net 's debian repo, instead of mainstream Debian? They are far more recent, it would be much appreciated.
[12:42] <lunitik> I tried to file this as a feature request via bugzilla... but launchpad doesn't make it very obvious in regards to how to file this...
[12:42] <Kamion> err ... we already do?
[12:42] <Kamion>       wine |      0.9-1 |      unstable | source, i386
[12:43] <Kamion>       wine | 0.0.20050725-0ubuntu1 | dapper/universe | source, i386
[12:43] <Kamion> somebody might need to update them but we certainly aren't tracking Debian for wine
[12:43] <Kamion> Scott Ritchie's looking after those
[12:43] <lunitik> Kamion: hmm... I searched packages.ubuntu.com, and it doesn't list the 0.9.x series?
[12:43] <Kamion> oh, hang on, 0.0.20050725 < 0.9, hmm
[12:43] <Kamion> talk to Scott Ritchie
[12:43] <dholbach> YokoZar is his ircnick
[12:44] <Kamion> lunitik: "unstable" => Debian not Ubuntu
[12:44] <YokoZar> hi
[12:44] <lunitik> Kamion: he maintains the Ubuntu packages? because if Ubuntu is sinking with Debian, its taking forever to get in....
[12:44] <sladen> aren't the wine packages coming *directly* from the winehq guys, because they had so much trouble pushing them to Debian?
[12:44] <YokoZar> It's taking forever since I don't have my key signed until the holidays
[12:44] <Kamion> sladen: yes
[12:44] <lunitik> Kamion: sinking with *his* archive would surely make things better?
[12:44] <YokoZar> Yes.  Speaking of which, I just put up a new package a few hours ago (0.9.3)
[12:45] <Kamion> lunitik: "syncing", and yes elmo could do that if requested and if it didn't require Ubuntu-specific modifications
[12:45] <lunitik> Kamion: his packages are stable ime, however, its it'd be more convenient to not have to add his repo every time...
[12:45] <YokoZar> I saw no rush to do so, since I assumed I'd find some sap to sign my key in time, heh
[12:45] <YokoZar> (get elmo to do it that is)
[12:46] <lunitik> Kamion: if you could please look into that and talk to him about it, it would be much appreciated... I'm banned from #ubuntu since a few months ago, so don't have much contact with the community lately  :/
[12:46] <YokoZar> lunitik: I'm right here duder
[12:46] <Kamion> lunitik: no, I can't
[12:47] <ogra> lunitik, until YokoZar can take over in ubuntu, \sh might be your best bet to talk to, he cared for the breezy and dapper packages so far
[12:47] <Kamion> lunitik: I was just helping you out, I don't want to become responsible for it
[12:47] <YokoZar> I don't see what the rush is anyway
[12:47] <lunitik> YokoZar: ahh, my mistake... hah... any chance of that... simply installing the packages on Ubuntu dapper works fine (other than not editing gnome menu), so it shouldn't be _that_ much work  :P
[12:48] <YokoZar> if the packages at winehq don't work in Dapper I'd like to know
[12:48] <YokoZar> They should work
[12:48] <ogra> lunitik, \sh will be able to request the sync from winehq ...
[12:48] <lunitik> YokoZar: they do... winehq.com points you to wine.sf.net packages if you click on Ubuntu packages, so we are refering to the same thing  :)
[12:49] <Kamion> winehq isn't listed in josie (the sync script) so evidently no-one has yet done a direct sync
[12:49] <YokoZar> Well they're built against breezy at the moment, not dapper
[12:49] <Kamion> syncs are sourcewise not binarywise; they'd be rebuilt on our buildds
[12:49] <ogra> Kamion, i know \sh uses only the winehq packages ...
[12:49] <YokoZar> Right
[12:49] <lunitik> YokoZar: they still work fine... GNOME menu issues appear to be upstream because it doesn't work on any distro....
[12:50] <ogra> we talked about it several times ... probably elmo syncs the manually or something ...
[12:50] <YokoZar> Basically a sync shouldn't be needed since putting in the package is something I should do after I get my car back and drive to a key party o'er the holidays
[12:50] <Kamion> ogra: that seems highly unlikely
[12:50] <ogra> strange 
[12:50] <YokoZar> lunitik: Yes, this is known
[12:50] <ogra> sad \sh isnt here to answer ...
[12:50] <YokoZar> If you play video games, you use the latest Wine ;)
[12:50] <Kamion> ogra: josie has a huge load of listings for other sites. why on earth would elmo sync them manually when he has a very configurable script he wrote to do it for him?
[12:51] <YokoZar> What do we track other than Debian unstable?
[12:51] <ogra> Kamion, i dont know elmos sync practise, i was just guessing ... they have to come in somehow ...
[12:52] <ogra> YokoZar, do you already have your launchpad account and wikipage ready for becoming a member ? 
[12:52] <YokoZar> pretty much, I might need to clean it up a bit though
[12:52] <YokoZar> I remember doing that stuff a few months ago
[12:52] <ogra> just because i dont seeyou on launchpad anywhere ;)
[12:53] <Kamion> YokoZar: far too many to list, mostly small archives picked up from apt-get.org synced into multiverse
[12:53] <YokoZar> lunitik: don't bring it here, bring it to forums
[12:53] <YokoZar> ogra: I've filed a launchpad spec...
[12:53] <lunitik> YokoZar: alright, sorry.
[12:53] <Kamion> blackdown, marillat, mythtv, xfce are notable ones
[12:53] <infinity> ogra : Uhm, it's pretty obvious from the version number that wine isn't synced at all, it's hand-merged.
[12:53] <YokoZar> ahh
[12:54] <ogra> infinity, ah ... that explains it ...
[12:54] <ogra> didnt look at the version no
[12:54] <dholbach> :)
[12:54] <YokoZar> version "OLD"
[12:54] <infinity> YokoZar : I was referring to the -XubuntuX .. :)
[12:54] <mvo> Keybuk: hello! do you have any plans to switch to bzr for dpkg eventually?
[12:54] <lunitik> YokoZar: where exactly? I don't see a relavent forum?
[12:55] <dholbach> lunitik: talk to Seveas, crimsun, tritium, somebody else who is op?
[12:55] <Keybuk> mvo: yeah, eventually ... probably when I next sit down and hack on it
[12:55] <Keybuk> I have plans to do it over the christmas break
[12:56] <lunitik> dholbach: Seveas banned me for a personal dispute  :/
[12:56] <mvo> Keybuk: nice, I talked to bubulle about it today because I would like to switch apt to it too (after my last "fun" with baz I'm feed up)
[12:56] <dholbach> lunitik: then talk to him - this is definitely the wrong place
[12:56] <lunitik> dholbach: pretty immature really... and the ban has been way drawn out  :/
[12:56] <ogra> that sounds highly unlikely
[12:56] <mvo> Keybuk: and apparently dpkg and apt are currently his only projects that use tla/baz
[12:57] <lunitik> dholbach: lots of ops here *cough*ogra*cough*, I think Seveas is /ignore'ing me  :(
[12:57] <dholbach> lunitik: as i said... this is the wrong place
[12:57] <lunitik> dholbach: I understand that, YokoZar pointed me to the right place, however I don't know where, and I asked....
[12:58] <ogra> lunitik, i wont unban people Seveas banned without knowing what was the issue, please talk to him, and pleas not in this channel as dholbach says
[12:58] <Keybuk> mvo: yeah, dpkg is now my only baz project
[12:58] <dholbach> apart from that, you can always mail
[12:58] <lunitik> ogra: Ask him to unignore me, and I will be more than happy to talk to him about it....
[01:00] <Kamion> lunitik: #ubuntu-devel *is not an escalation channel for disputes in #ubuntu*. It is a development channel. *Please* respect that!
[01:00] <lunitik> blah, whatever though... I care too much imo, one less person willing to devote time to supporting users is affects Ubuntu, and saves me time  :/
[01:09] <sivang> seb128: did you fix the panle application thingy? 
[01:09] <sivang> (just asking)
[01:10] <seb128> what "panle application thingy"?
[01:10] <seb128> empty menu?
[01:10] <sivang> seb128: yes, and application menus that doesn open due to gam_server
[01:10] <seb128> it opens, it has just no content :p
[01:11] <seb128> and no
[01:11] <seb128> I don't have the issue here
[01:11] <sivang> ah ok, then I need to upgrade at least it will open :)
[01:11] <seb128> upgrade will not do anything
[01:11] <sivang> I need to restart panel? or kill and restart session?
[01:11] <seb128> we have not changed anything for 2 weeks or so
[01:11] <seb128> ?
[01:11] <seb128> for what?
[01:11] <sivang> nono , sorry. my bad
[01:11] <sivang> ok, thankss
[01:13] <siretart> seb128: I just upgraded to dapper on my amd64 box, I'm not bitten by the bug there. strange, no?
[01:15] <dholbach> siretart: bon apptit
[01:18] <jdub> Kamion: bootchart-udeb for bootcharting installer/livecd?
[01:20] <pitti> crimsun: do you plan to fix osh for warty?
[01:21] <Kamion> jdub: yes, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LiveCDPerformance
[01:22] <Kamion> it only activates if you put 'bootchart' on the kernel command line (AIUI)
[01:26] <jdub> Kamion: fun :)
[01:27] <jdub> Kamion: are we still doing the simplified livecd for dapper?
[01:27] <Riddell> pitti: there's new xpdf patches in KDE's SVN but not available through the security page yet and apparantly dirk is waiting on confirmation from the xpdf author
[01:28] <pitti> Riddell: he also asked on vsec for confirmation
[01:29] <pitti> jbailey: Hi Jeff, how are you?
[01:30] <jbailey> pitti: I'm ALIVE!
[01:30] <jbailey> pitti: I'm ALERT!
[01:30] <jbailey> I FEEL GREAT!
[01:30] <pitti> yay :)
[01:30] <jbailey> pitti: You? =)
[01:30] <fabbione> jbailey: time to stop smoking crack? ;)
[01:30] <jbailey> fabbione: Nah, occasionally I wake up really cheerful.
[01:30] <jbailey> fabbione: It's days like today that it's probably best that I work alone. =)
[01:31] <fabbione> jbailey: i am not going to suggest reasons why you wake up so cheerful :P
[01:31] <Kamion> jdub: so I believe; Mithrandir is taking care of that
[01:33] <jdub> cool
[01:33] <pitti> jbailey: knee deep in patches :)
[01:34] <jbailey> fabbione: You wouldn't want to be vain and say that it was from seeing your smiling face? =)
[01:36] <jdub> seb128: 'volume monitor' and 'recording level monitor' in 'sound & video' -> shouldn't be there anymore - should i file a bug for you?
[01:41] <Kamion> (yes, I think I've finished uploading apt-setup for now)
[01:42] <Keybuk> only two?  that's not worth a daniels memorial award
[01:46] <janimo> Keybuk, any reason why alsa-utils.rules is in /etc/udev and not under rules.d ?
[01:46] <Keybuk> yes, I haven't fixed it yet
[01:46] <janimo> I am trying to figure out why my ALSA card doesn;t work
[01:46] <janimo> OSS driver gets loaded before
[01:46] <Keybuk> I'll be attacking ALSA ~Monday/Tuesday
[01:46] <Keybuk> yes
[01:46] <janimo> i810
[01:46] <janimo> ok thanks
[01:46] <Keybuk> sound cards are known broken currently
[01:47] <Keybuk> the OSS driver is loaded because the OSS blacklists haven't yet been rewritten as modprobe blacklist files
[01:47] <Keybuk> (they're still the old hotplug blacklist files)
[01:48] <janimo> ok, others said they have ALSA working so I thought I have an exception, glad it's not the case
[01:48] <Keybuk> once over that hurdle, you'll still find that the sound card mixer state, etc. aren't restored
[01:48] <Keybuk> nah, some people are just lucky
[01:48] <janimo> once this is done /etc/hotplug can go away I gues?
[01:48] <Keybuk> yes
[01:48] <janimo> ok rock on then :)
[01:48] <seb128> jdub: no, get a buildd to kick the build back
[01:49] <seb128> jdub: it failed to build due to ncb Depends issue which is fixed, just need a retry
[01:49] <seb128> jdub: thanks for the reminder :)
[01:49] <seb128> infinity, lamont-away: please give a retry to gnome-media
[01:50] <fabbione> jbailey: ehehe
[01:59] <jdub> seb128: rawk
[01:59] <tseng> lo jdub 
[02:00] <tseng> jdub: my mom ordered that 24" dell
[02:01] <jdub> raw
[02:01] <jdub> k
[02:01] <tseng> ya cant wait to see what that thing looks like
[02:01] <tseng> next to my "tiny" 20"
[02:02] <tseng> hi ogra :)
[02:02] <ogra> hey tseng, congrats :)
[02:02] <tseng> hm the 24 is hers :P
[02:02] <tseng> not even in the same town as me
[02:03] <ogra> ah, dmaned, i thought it was your christmas present ;)
[02:25] <Kamion> Keybuk: three
[02:29] <ogra> Kamion, did you intentional time it in exact 10min intervals ? :)
[02:29] <ogra> (the middle one differs in 1 sec thiugh )
[02:29] <ogra> *though
[02:33] <jbailey> Hmm.  Evolution needs address affinity.
[02:33] <jbailey> If I'm emailing with my @ubuntu.com address, it should prefer the recipients @ubuntu.com address.
[02:33] <ogra> yeah... thats a long missing feature
[02:39] <janimo> ogra is the hwdb database accesible somewhere?
[02:39] <tseng> hwdb.ubuntu.com
[02:40] <janimo> thanks
[02:41] <Kamion> ogra_: queue/unchecked is processed from a cron job that runs every five minutes, so that isn't too surprising
[02:44] <janimo> not very detailed
[03:10] <ogra_> Kamion: /usr/bin/report-hw: 12: discover: not found
[03:10] <ogra_> The final umounting fails
[03:12] <Kamion> ogra_: known, fixed in the archive
[03:12] <Kamion> the discover thing I'm ignoring, it doesn't matter
[03:12] <ogra_> oki, fine
[03:13] <Kamion> fixed> busybox 1:1.01-3ubuntu5
[03:13] <ogra_> hmm... ltsp-client-builder is borked too :( .... doesnt find breezy on the CD .... how surprising
[03:14] <Kamion> oh my god it's hardcoded in ltsp-build-client
[03:14] <Kamion> MDZ
[03:14] <Kamion> should be an option that ltsp-client-builder can fetch from mirror/codename in the installer
[03:15] <Kamion> (was mirror/suite in breezy)
[03:32] <ogra> hmm, base config fails to configure postgresql-8.1
[03:32] <ogra> pitti, `
[03:32] <ogra> ?
[03:32] <mdke> mdz, ping?
[03:32] <pitti> ogra: again, why does base-config try to configure postgresql?
[03:32] <ogra> no idea ...
[03:33] <ogra> err
[03:33] <ogra> indeed
[03:33] <ogra> its edubuntu ;)
[03:34] <pitti> ogra: can you please show me the actual error message?
[03:34] <ogra> just trying to find it ...
[03:34] <mdke> mdz, i'll send you a query
[03:36] <seb128> jdub: ping ?
[03:37] <ogra> pitti, there is not much :/
[03:37] <ogra> dpkg: error processing postgresql-8.1 (--configure):
[03:37] <ogra>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1
[03:37] <pitti> hmm
[03:37] <ogra> directly below Setting up postgresql-8.1 (8.1.0-3) ... 
[03:37] <pitti> which -common version do you have?
[03:38] <ogra> there are locale errors all over the place, does it depend on proper set up locales somehow ? 
[03:38] <jdub> seb128: pong
[03:38] <ogra> (it works with the other packages...)
[03:38] <pitti> ogra: yes, a bit, but you should get more output in that case
[03:38] <seb128> jdub:  /j #ubuntu-desktop please
[03:38] <pitti> ogra: does apt-get -f install fix it?
[03:39] <pitti> ogra: if not, can you please add set -x to /var/lib/dpkg/info/postgresql-8.1.postinst and apt-get -f install again?
[03:39] <ogra> will do...
[03:39] <ogra> postgresql-common_36_all.deb btw
[03:40] <ogra> common and client seem to have worked fine
[03:43] <Mithrandir> jbailey: any reason why circular dependencies in initramfs exit 1's rather than giving you a panic shell?
[03:44] <jbailey> Mithrandir: Not that I can think of.
[03:44] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I probably wrote that before I wrote the panic shell logic.
[03:45] <Mithrandir> holy shit, it's booting.
[03:46] <zakame> whao
[03:49] <Keybuk> hmm, whatever happened to ... xsnow!
[03:49] <Amaranth> Keybuk: It doesn't work with new DEs. :/
[03:50] <Keybuk> aww
[03:50] <Keybuk> probably gets stuck on the top panel
[03:50] <Keybuk> or the big nautilus window of doom
[03:50] <Amaranth> it doesn't know how to tell nautilus to redraw
[03:50] <Amaranth> or something
[03:52] <BenC> anyone here have xfs and running dapper kernel?
[03:52] <BenC> if so, can you verify #6841
[03:53] <pitti> BenC: I do
[03:53] <ogra> pitti, http://paste.ubuntulinux.nl/5555
[03:54] <ogra> apt-get -f install doesnt help ...
[03:54] <pitti> ogra: ok, that's good
[03:54] <pitti> ogra: does running the postinst with -x help?
[03:54] <ogra> phew ...
[03:54] <ogra> err, you mean set -x ? 
[03:55] <Keybuk> BenC: doesn't happen here, I can strip 644 binaries
[03:55] <pitti> right
[03:55] <ogra> thats what i got with it
[03:55] <pitti> BenC: works fine for me, too
[03:56] <Keybuk> I do get Permission Denied if the binary isn't writable ... but I expect to
[03:56] <ogra> seb128, dholbach, 
[03:56] <ogra> Setting up gnome-terminal-data (2.12.0-0ubuntu2) ...
[03:56] <ogra> /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-terminal-data.postinst: line 19: gconftool-2: command not found
[03:56] <ogra> /var/lib/dpkg/info/gnome-terminal-data.postinst: line 19: gconftool-2: command not found
[03:56] <ogra> dpkg: error processing gnome-terminal-data (--configure):
[03:56] <ogra>  subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 127
[03:56] <ogra> known ? 
[03:57] <Amaranth> it needs a dep on gconf?
[03:57] <pitti> ogra: ok, your locales seem to be busted
[03:57] <ogra> pitti, yup
[03:57] <ogra> but should that affect the postinst ? 
[03:57] <pitti> ogra: the postinst tries to create a database under en_US.UTF-8
[03:57] <pitti> which is set as the default locale
[03:57] <pitti> but doesn't seem to exist
[03:57] <ogra> ah, k ....
[03:57] <pitti> language-pack-en should fix it
[03:58] <pitti> ogra: what does 'locale -a' say? does it complain?
[03:58] <ogra> locale: Cannot set LC_CTYPE to default locale: No such file or directory
[03:58] <ogra> locale: Cannot set LC_MESSAGES to default locale: No such file or directory
[03:58] <ogra> locale: Cannot set LC_COLLATE to default locale: No such file or directory
[03:58] <ogra> C
[03:58] <ogra> POSIX
[03:58] <pitti> heh, I knew :)
[03:58] <ogra> at least in the chrooted env ...
[03:58] <dholbach> pitti: i guess a ${misc:Depends} in gnome-terminal is missing
[03:59] <pitti> ogra: then either install the lanpack, or fix /etc/environment
[03:59] <ogra> dholbach, that are two different errors
[03:59] <ogra> pitti, i'm doing test installs here :)
[03:59] <ogra> so something is missing on the CD i think ...
[03:59] <pitti> ogra: hm, language-pack-en is installed by default...
[03:59] <pitti> hm, wait
[04:00] <ogra> pitti, yes it doesnt show up in my problem list for the CD either
[04:00] <pitti> Kamion: I think our new locales handling doesn't play well with the installer
[04:00] <pitti> Kamion: if the user chooses a locale, and it is written into /etc/environment, but the langpack ist not installed, it will break
[04:01] <ogra> i'm probably lagging behind with the iso ... Kamion fixed busybox already, might be related
[04:01] <BenC> Keybuk, pitti: thanks
[04:07] <seb128> pitti: what the heck are you doing with glib?
[04:07] <seb128> ups
[04:07] <seb128> not for you
[04:08] <seb128> smurf: what the heck are you doing with glib?
[04:08] <pitti> seb128: added the gettext patch for desktop files, just as we discussed?
[04:08] <seb128> pitti: no, smurf shlibs bump without any notice
[04:08] <seb128> pitti: was not for you :)
[04:09] <seb128> pitti: is your patch changing the public API?
[04:09] <pitti> seb128: *phew* :)
[04:11] <smurf> seb128: glib2.9 added new symbols, what else should I have been doing?
[04:11] <pitti> seb128: not at all
[04:11] <seb128> smurf: asking the maintainer so it get fixed for Debian too?
[04:11] <ogra> dholbach, hmm, might be you are right with the missing dep ...
[04:12] <seb128> smurf: especially that it was a pending change
[04:12] <ogra> dholbach, on the test system only gconf2-common ended up to be installed
[04:13] <seb128> ogra: the control.in miss a Depends on misc:Depends for it
[04:13] <ogra> yup
[04:13] <ogra> thats why i said he might be right ...
[04:13] <ogra> :)
[04:14] <seb128> ogra: what is right?
[04:14] <seb128> ogra: Debian has already fixed it, we just need to sync the package
[04:14] <ogra> seb128, <dholbach> pitti: i guess a ${misc:Depends} in gnome-terminal is missing
[04:14] <ogra> seb128, great
[04:16] <seb128> ogra: you have nothing else triggering gconf on your iso?
[04:16] <ogra> seb128, seems like gnome-panel-data is the first thing using it 
[04:17] <ogra> s/gnome-panel-data/gnome-terminal-data
[04:18] <ogra> seb128, i have only these two packages failing currently ... (gnome-terminal-data and postgresql-8.1)
[04:18] <seb128> I'll fix gt now
[04:19] <pitti> ogra: I'll talk to Kamion about locale handling
[04:20] <ogra> pitti, might be related to the busybox error ... i'm not sure 
[04:20] <smurf> seb128: the version number sortof indicates that 2.9 isn't from Debian, so I decided to fix it first and look at Debian et al. later, instead of the other way 'round. Sorry if I mis-stepped. :-/
[04:20] <seb128> smurf: that's easy to ping on IRC before uploading no?
[04:20] <seb128> anyway, next time please before uploading like this
[04:20] <smurf> sure
[04:27] <slomo_> lbm: now, yes...
[04:28] <slomo_> siretart: ping?
[04:56] <pitti> lamont-away: argh, ppc buildd troube - are you here?
[04:57] <pitti> lamont-away: procps failed to install on royal, which broke the warty/courier build
[04:57] <pitti> infinity: ^ (just in case you are awake)
[04:59] <lbm> slomo_: about your banshee package, libmono0 is missing as a dependency
[04:59] <slomo_> hmm, can someone look at a build failure on ia64? it's xine-lib and i don't want to upload any other tries to fix it without knowing that they actually work ;) http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/x/xine-lib/1.1.1-0ubuntu2/
[05:00] <slomo_> lbm: thanks, i'll add it... :)
[05:00] <lbm> slomo_: great :)
[05:02] <lbm> slomo_: banshee segfaults all the time. i haven't tried compiling the source, so i can't really tell if your package is the problem
[05:02] <slomo_> lbm: uh... it doesn't for me since 0.10 anymore :/ can you give me a backtrace?
[05:03] <lbm> slomo_: in an hour or two, yes
[05:03] <Amaranth> slomo_: Don't suppose you can relax the monodoc dependency there.
[05:03] <Amaranth> slomo_: Switch it to recommended or whatever and just disable the docs if it isn't installed.
[05:03] <lbm> slomo_: can you tell me how to backtrace it?
[05:04] <slomo_> Amaranth: for backports you mean? we'll most probably backport the complete mono stack soon so this will be no problem anymore...
[05:05] <slomo_> lbm: either by using gdb... or often mono gives you already a backtrace if the segfault wasn't too hard
[05:05] <lbm> slomo_: let me get back to you
[05:06] <slomo_> lbm: sure, just ping me again :)
[05:06] <lbm> slomo_: ;)
[05:10] <psusi> has anyone been messing with unionfs?  I'm wondering if it could be used to move files read in by readahead-list to a romfs image and overlay that on top of the root fs
[05:11] <psusi> that way readahead-list could do it's thing much faster due to much less seeks
[05:18] <\sh> mvo: thx :) 
[05:19] <mvo> \sh: got the mail already? great :)
[05:19] <ogra> mvo, you rock !
[05:19] <ogra> !!
[05:19] <ogra> !
[05:19] <\sh> mvo: yeah..thx alot :)
[05:21] <infinity> pitti : Not awake, but fixed anyway.  Cheers.
[05:21] <pitti> infinity: merci :)
[05:21] <mvo> cheers :)
[05:21] <pitti> infinity: it's great that you can work even when being asleep :)
[05:22] <ogra> the somnambulating buildd admin !
[05:23] <infinity> seb128 : gnome-media given back everywhere, but failed on i386 attempting to link to dbus-glib-1, which it can't find.  I assume an underlying library needs a rebuild, or something.  Have fun.
[05:24] <pitti> sleep well, Adam
[05:24] <seb128> infinity: yeah, nautilus-cd-burner, that I fixed some days ago ... will figure why it's still failing, thanks
[05:24] <seb128> g'night
[05:39] <ogra> pitti, did you also just get a MS virus on the ubuntu-de ML ?
[05:39] <pitti> ogra: I get thousands of bounce notifications
[05:39] <ogra> yes thats what i get for edubuntu-devel currently ...
[05:40] <ogra> its an admin thing ... seems gmail has probs 
[05:40] <ogra> but i just got a virusmail as user on ubuntu-de, seems it somehow slipped through the scanner
[05:40] <ogra> (on the ml server)
[05:59] <Diziet> Why oh why oh why does os.open() default to mode 0777 ?
[05:59] <Diziet> It seems to be just Python being gratuitously annoying again.
[06:00] <psusi> it doesn't obey umask?
[06:17] <ryanpg> hi all... is it appropriate to file a bug about nautilus-cd-burner not working as non-root user in dapper? or is this expected behavior for a pre-release?
[06:17] <ogra> ryanpg, does it work with other apps ? 
[06:19] <ryanpg> ogra, you mean do other burner apps work? well, g-cd-b works when run as root... I can check some others
[06:19] <ryanpg> what's a good one to try?
[06:19] <ryanpg> I have serpentine, I'll try that
[06:20] <ogra> for me it deons work with root either as well as it doesnt work with cdrecord, 
[06:22] <ryanpg> ogra, doesn't work with serpentine either
[06:27] <LaserJock> elmo: ping?
[06:27] <ogra> ryanpg, so its unlikely to be a n-c-b bug
[06:37] <ryanpg> ogra, yeah... unfortunately bugzilla seems not to allow me to submit without picking a package so n-c-b it was
[06:38] <ogra> pick unknown next time ;)
[06:38] <ryanpg> ogra, hmm... good suggestion
[06:41] <ryanpg> ok, could someone help me acculturate here... is it appropriate/good/helpful to be filing bugs against dapper? I don't want to ruin the s/n ratio here. :)
[06:41] <crimsun> yes, it's fine
[06:41] <ogra> its preferred *g*
[06:41] <ogra> since we can more easily fix them ;)
[06:42] <ryanpg> ok good thanks crimsun ogra, just don't want to be a nudge! ;)
[06:42] <mdz> ryanpg: so long as you check that your bug isn't already reported
[06:43] <ogra> mdz !
[06:43] <ogra> mdz, can you please merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/fixes/ and upload the ltsp package before flight 2 ? 
[06:43] <ogra> (its a one line fix)
[06:44] <ogra> without it the stage 1 install breaks ...
[06:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: I have simplifiedlivecd mostly implemented \o/
[06:56] <Mithrandir> mdz: mostly minor faff left, like my live image not having the same kernel version as the kernel I'm booting with.
[06:58] <dholbach> elmo: please sync aiksaurus from debian, ok to override
[06:58] <pitti> YAY
[06:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: cool, is it in bzr or otherwise browseable?
[06:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, in bzr, but not published anywhere yet.
[06:59] <mdz> ogra: will have a look
[06:59] <ogra> thanks :)
[06:59] <Mithrandir> I gotta vacuum for a bit, I'll put it up later.
[07:00] <dholbach> Mithrandir: that's what i did, when gnome-system-tools test-built :)
[07:01] <seb128> Keybuk: around?
[07:02] <dholbach> elmo: merci
[07:04] <pitti> seb128: poppler rocks :)
[07:04] <seb128> cool ;)
[07:04] <seb128> happy that you like it :)
[07:04] <pitti> seb128: well, tetex-bin is the last xpdf copy (and these really hurt)
[07:04] <seb128> pitti: BTW have you tried if your crasher is fixed with the evince update?
[07:05] <pitti> seb128: a bit, it didn't crash any more
[07:05] <seb128> cool, so that's the right fix for it :)
[07:08] <Gerrath> Were can I find out what modules are loaded in the kernel ram-disk image for a stock ubuntu kernel?
[07:09] <Gerrath> example: initrd.img-2.6.12-10-686
[07:14] <Gerrath> Heres why, I can remove the dethforce module completely from the kernel and it still loads so I'm starting to think it is in the initrd.
[07:15] <siretart> slomo_: pong
[07:24] <pitti> had I known that tetex builds so easily with poppler, I should have done it in breezy
[07:24] <pitti> now I pay for not having done it...
[07:33] <zyga> hello
[07:36] <siretart> a friend just asked me: are there plans to have mysql5 in dapper?
[07:37] <sladen> siretart: is it certified? ;-)
[07:38] <siretart> sladen: nope, but I know people who don't care about this and just want the latest mysql.. *shrug*
[07:39] <zyga> who is the one to ping about being added to the UbuntuMembers team on launchpad?
[07:39] <BenC> any ETA on flight 2?
[07:51] <neuralis> siretart: ping infinity about what he decided, but i recommended against it based on 5.0.15
[07:54] <neuralis> siretart: it's yet to be seen how much they fixed in .16
[07:55] <siretart> neuralis: ok
[07:57] <Diziet> -anarres:virt-chroot> really strace -fot dchroot -q true </dev/null 
[07:57] <Diziet> stdin: is not a tty
[07:57] <Diziet> -anarres:virt-chroot> echo $?
[07:57] <Diziet> 0
[07:57] <Diziet> ???
[08:16] <gouchi> Hi
[08:16] <gouchi> Is there a bugreport for labtec pro webcam ?
[08:17] <gouchi> because It freezes ubuntu breezy
[08:17] <gouchi> running gnomemeeting
[08:17] <ogra> gouchi, bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[08:17] <gouchi> ok
[08:17] <gouchi> I will make a search
[08:17] <gouchi> it seems not
[08:18] <gouchi> strange
[08:18] <dholbach> good night
[08:18] <mvo> bye dholbach 
[08:21] <Hieronymus> gouchi: I have a similar problem, I believe
[08:22] <Hieronymus> gouchi: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20520
[08:22] <gouchi> yep
[08:22] <Hieronymus> When gnomemeeting or another program tries to capture from my webcam, my complete system freezes
[08:22] <gouchi> same here
[08:23] <Hieronymus> gouchi: okay. Please add a comment to that bug and put your e-mail in CC. Maybe dmesg and lspci output will help aswell.
[08:23] <gouchi> I gonna try to recompile the module : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Spca5xx?highlight=%28webcam%29
[08:23] <Hieronymus> gouchi: is that the module?
[08:24] <gouchi> yep
[08:37] <zyga> lamont-away: who manages the ubuntu members team?
[08:37] <zyga> sorry for bothering you, thanks
[08:37] <lamont-away> np
[08:38] <crimsun> zyga: ping Seveas about the ubuntu members team
[08:39] <zyga> crimsun: thanks
[08:39] <zyga> Seveas: ping
[08:49] <Amaranth> sounds like 7zip could allow you to put more language packs on the CDs, even if you only compress the language packs themselves with it
[08:50] <Amaranth> and, as a bonus, it's actually faster than bz2 :)
[08:51] <zyga> Amaranth: isn't there a spec somewhere about 7zip evaluation?
[08:56] <psusi> aye... 7zip kicks ass
[09:16] <mdke> mdz, did you see my query earlier?
[09:18] <mdz> mdke: no
[09:18] <mdke> mdz, ok :)
[09:29] <gouchi>  Hieronymus : works with new module ;-)
[09:35] <Hieronymus> gouchi: you followed the wiki?
[09:36] <gouchi> yep
[09:36] <gouchi> very easy
[09:36] <gouchi> Hieronymus : uses gcc-3.5 if you have breezy kernel
[09:36] <Hieronymus> oh, I thought 3.4..
[09:37] <crimsun> (gcc-3.4)
[09:37] <gouchi> Hieronymus : gcc-3.4 sorry :)
[09:39] <gouchi> Hieronymus : remember before to insmod ,  rmmod spca5xx.ko
[09:46] <zyga>   .0
[10:10] <Kamion> crimsun: huh? Seveas isn't a community council member and thus doesn't administer ubuntumembers
[10:14] <crimsun> Kamion: I thought he was asking about something else
[10:14] <Kamion> ok ...
[10:15] <crimsun> (the FN cloaks)