[12:06] <sivang> lifeless: night, c'ya
[12:07] <lifeless> night
[12:17] <Spee_Der> g'night life
[12:17] <lifeless> uhm
[12:17] <lifeless> sivang is going to be
[12:17] <lifeless> d
[12:17] <lifeless> not me
[12:17] <Spee_Der> sri
[12:17] <Spee_Der> just tuned back in here
[12:18] <Spee_Der> Just chillin' here... Think I partially resolved the sleeping keyboard trouble/problem.....
[12:21] <sivang> I'm acutally still here, I couldn't let another bug I found with gpdf slip away , now I can go to sleep with peace, nice that you solved your kbd prob Spee_Der :)
[12:21] <sivang> now good night for real. bye
[12:22] <Spee_Der> Ok, good night. It is only partially resolved, but I am happy with it.... Cheers mate.
[09:15] <bradb> jamesh: ping
[09:16] <bradb> jamesh: Just curious: have you started on the review of my InitialBugContacts branch? If not, perhaps SteveA and I can go through it here in .lt.
[09:20] <SteveA> bradb: it would be better if james is doing it, so we can focus on other things here, and look at the review as it comes in.
[09:23] <bradb> ok
[09:34] <jamesh> bradb: yeah.  I'm doing it right now.
[09:36] <SteveA> thanks jamesh 
[09:36] <bradb> jamesh: ah, cool
[09:37] <jamesh> bradb: in general it looks pretty good.  There is a little overlap with Bjorn's branch, but that should be easy to resolve
[09:41] <sivang> guys, what's the size of a working rocketfuel checkout ? (including zope and everything needed to run)
[09:41] <jamesh> sivang: 402MB, before you run make
[09:45] <jordi> LarstiQ: ping
[09:45] <sivang> jamesh: after you run make it gets bigger?
[09:45] <jordi> LarstiQ: if a source pacakge doesn't ship a pot file in the tar.gz, rosetta won't import it automatically
[09:46] <sivang> I mean, much bigger? :)
[09:46] <jamesh> sivang: a bit.  You'll get .pyc files and a few extension modules
[09:46] <jamesh> sivang: 425MB for one of my checkouts
[09:46] <jordi> LarstiQ: this will get detected pretty soon, as people won't be able to trranslate, so the ubuntu package maintainer makes some rule in the build process to generate a pot in the package, or whatever
[09:47] <jordi> LarstiQ: I assume that if blender's can be done with a simple xgettext, that's the problem, someone didn't know how it's done correctly and it's a bit fucked up
[09:47] <sivang> jamesh: ah ok, that's not that big then :)
[09:49] <SteveA> spiv: hi, around?
[09:57] <jamesh> bradb: it should be pretty easy to modify the bugzilla default assignees migration script I wrote at UBZ to the new schema in your branch
[09:57] <jamesh> which is good :)
[09:57] <bradb> jamesh: that schema's already in rf, afaik
[09:58] <jamesh> bradb: yeah, but the LP APIs aren't.
[09:58] <bradb> indeed
[10:05] <lifeless> ddaa: , SteveA  can we move back 30 minutes?
[10:05] <daf> morning
[10:06] <ddaa> lifeless: okay with me, today.
[10:08] <SteveA> lifeless: i'm working with brad.  i can do a very brief meeting.
[10:15] <lifeless> thanks
[10:15] <lifeless> I'm in the middle of initialising a fridge
[10:15] <lifeless> due to my old one stopping being a fridge and becoming a very expensive eskie (chillie bin ?) on sunday
[10:20] <ddaa> jblack: lifeless was talking to both of us in #bzr. The Launchpad integratino meeting is in ten mins.
[10:21] <ddaa> 30 mins later than usual
[10:21] <ddaa> you are welcome to attend
[10:21] <jblack> Thought you usually had it on thursdays? 
[10:21] <jblack> I'll be there.
[10:21] <ddaa> Thursday is Launchpad development meeting.
[10:21] <ddaa> Monday morning is the LaunchpadBazaar integration meeting.
[10:31] <ddaa> jblack: #canonical-meeting
[10:33] <jblack> admins: ping
[10:33] <SteveA> admins?
[10:34] <jblack> stevea: admins, as in "by any odd chance is either elmo or znarl actively watching this tty at this second. otherwise, I'll stalk"
[10:35] <SteveA> daf: hello
[10:35] <lifeless> back
[10:35] <SteveA> brad and i are taking a break from our sessions.  so i can do a bit of meeting
[10:38] <jamesh> bradb: you should have some review comments in your inbox
[10:39] <bradb> jamesh: cool, thanks
[10:39] <daf> SteveA: hi
[10:40] <jordi> sabdfl: rosetta is mentioned in the openoffice.org l10n mailing list
[10:40] <jordi> http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=6091
[10:43] <SteveA> jordi: the reply says that the request on the rosetta list about how OOo can be translated hasn't been answered yet
[10:44] <jordi> SteveA: I haven't got the reply yet
[10:44] <jordi> afaik, it has been replied by Carlos? We even have a detailed spec
[10:45] <SteveA> i mean, the reply at l10n.openoffice.org
[10:45] <SteveA> i read it on that website
[10:45] <SteveA> the author of the reply on that website says they haven't had a reply to their rosetta query
[10:45] <lifeless> is stub on leave yet ?
[10:45] <jordi> I have asked on _this_ list
[10:46] <jordi> as in l10n-dev I guess
[10:46] <jordi> SteveA: I've been on this list for one week
[10:46] <jordi> if rosetta was mentioned earlier I've probably missed it
[10:46] <SteveA> lifeless: today is a public holiday for him
[10:46] <lifeless> ah
[10:47] <jordi> SteveA: I guess the problem is erdal doesn't know what to do with the po files so the translated data is acceptable by upstream.
[10:48] <SteveA> you mean it is a one-way thing?
[10:48] <SteveA> OOo -> rosetta but not back again?
[10:51] <jordi> oh, no
[10:51] <jordi> it has a way back, and it's the only way if you want upstream to accept your po-based translation
[10:51] <jordi> but it's not trivial to do it, and I guess erdal doesn't know how to do it yet.
[11:11] <Kinnison> Morning
[11:15] <sabdfl> jordi: that's good coverage, if we have a good answer to the "get translations back upstream" question.
[11:15] <carlos> morning!
[11:15] <carlos> I'm back :-)
[11:16] <jordi> carlos!
[11:17] <jordi> carlos: how did it go?
[11:17] <carlos> jordi, really good, I need those holidays
[11:18] <carlos> my gf "asked" me to forget the laptop so those where true holidays ;-)
[11:19] <jordi> and you did forget it, I guess. :)
[11:19] <jordi> I was in Barcelona during the weekend.
[11:19] <carlos> jordi, yeah, I even ride a horse!
[11:19] <jordi> Yesterday I had a late lunch up in Montjuc's Castle.
[11:20] <SteveA> daf: what's the plan for today?
[11:20] <carlos> jordi, ;-)
[11:20] <jordi> carlos: so we were discussing ooo<->po conversions
[11:21] <jordi> carlos: 10:40 < jordi> http://l10n.openoffice.org/servlets/ReadMsg?list=dev&msgNo=6091
[11:21] <jordi> it seems erdal doesn't know how to convert back from po to ooo so he can feed his translations to openoffice.org cvs
[11:21] <daf> SteveA: I'm going to work my way down the list of things we talked about on Thursday
[11:21] <jordi> this should be covered by our spec, right?
[11:21] <daf> SteveA: lowest-hanging fruit first
[11:22] <carlos> jordi, well, doko has that in his todo list
[11:22] <carlos> jordi, he did the process and I asked to update the spec so we have it documented....
[11:22] <carlos> jordi, I don't know exactly the procedure
[11:22] <carlos> SteveA, daf hi dudes!
[11:22] <daf> hola carlos 
[11:22] <jordi> nod
[11:23] <SteveA> BjornT: hello
[11:23] <BjornT> hi SteveA 
[11:23] <SteveA> BjornT: you are the reviewer who is nearest to daf in timezones, particularly as daf is working just the first half of the day.
[11:24] <SteveA> daf is doing some "low hanging fruit" UI improvements to soyuz
[11:24] <SteveA> can you be his reviewer for these things?
[11:24] <jordi> carlos: if we have a link where it's very well explained, I can reply to the ooo list
[11:25] <BjornT> SteveA: sure
[11:25] <SteveA> jordi: +1 :-)
[11:25] <carlos> jordi, as I said, we don't have such link until doko updates the spec
[11:25] <carlos> jordi, we have the braindump spec
[11:25] <carlos> but is useless
[11:25] <SteveA> daf: once you have done a cohesive unit of stuff, get it onto PendingReviews in bjorn's queue
[11:26] <SteveA> let's see how soon we can get some of these improvements onto staging
[11:26] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-openoffice-support
[11:27] <SteveA> carlos, jordi: i see that doko is around.
[11:27] <daf> SteveA: I've pushed my branch already, but all it has at the moment are the breadcrumb fixes
[11:27] <SteveA> daf: that's fine.  it is easier to review small cohesive changes, usually.
[11:27] <daf> SteveA: ok, I'll put it in Bjorn's queue
[11:28] <daf> BjornT: it's the "soyuz-ui" branch on the pending reviews page
[11:28] <SteveA> carlos, jordi: let's see if doko and you guys can pull together, and make the OOo people happy.
[11:28] <jordi> yeah
[11:28] <jordi> I invited doko to this channel :)
[11:31] <BjornT> daf: ok, i'll take a look at it soon
[11:33] <daf> BjornT: great
[11:33] <carlos> doko, hi
[11:34] <carlos> doko, seems like there are some users that want to get the .po file from oo2 at launchpad.net and get back the OO2 native format to commit it upstream
[11:34] <carlos> but they don't know how to do that
[11:35] <carlos> doko, would be possible to update the spec at https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+spec/rosetta-openoffice-support so we have documented our current procedure?
[11:36] <doko> yes, I've seen the posts on l10n-dev today. going to reply ...
[11:36] <carlos> doko thank you
[11:37] <carlos> doko, please, ping me or jordi when the spec is updated so we can add a link from the Rosetta's FAQ page
[11:38] <carlos> oh, perfect... TranslationUploads was not merged due more conflicts...
[11:38] <carlos> grr
[11:42] <carlos> hmm, SteveA my conexion will be a bit unstable for the next two hours due some changes in the electric installation
[11:43] <carlos> I will work anyway, but will be connected and disconnected from the irc from time to time
[11:51] <bradb> jamesh: I've just replied to your review comments.
[11:56] <jblack> Anybody keep logs of large channels? 
[11:57] <SteveA> large channels?
[12:01] <sivang> has anyone had experience setting rocketfuel on dapper?
[12:02] <SteveA> sivang: first step would be to port the launchpad developers' dependency package to dapper
[12:02] <sivang> SteveA: eh, there is one meta package that depends on all that you need on a system?
[12:02] <SteveA> yes
[12:03] <SteveA> although i can't remember its name
[12:03] <sivang> I think I can..
[12:03] <sivang> let me look
[12:04] <BjornT> daf: looks good, r=bjornt
[12:04] <sivang> launchpad-dependencies
[12:04] <sivang> ^^ ?
[12:05] <sivang> I seem to be able to install it under dapper, cool
[12:05] <Kinnison> sivang: aye, that's the one
[12:05] <matsubara> good morning!
[12:05] <sivang> Kinnison: morning Kinnison !
[12:05] <Kinnison> hi sivang
[12:05] <sivang> ,matsubara
[12:06] <sivang> Kinnison: I'm sick at home, so I have some free time to play
[12:06] <Kinnison> sivang: have fun :-) And I hope you get well soon
[12:06] <daf> BjornT: thanks!
[12:07] <SteveA> daf: on your coding standards docs... can you also find a place to mention about the launchpad-dependencies package?
[12:07] <SteveA> everyone should be using it
[12:07] <daf> hmm
[12:07] <Kinnison> SteveA: We have it in breezy-updates too?
[12:08] <SteveA> Kinnison: nesuprantu
[12:08] <sivang> Kinnison: I am getting better by the minute, caught a bad flu but it's already better
[12:08] <Kinnison> SteveA: pardon?
[12:08] <daf> SteveA: RocketFuelSetup?
[12:08] <Kinnison> sivang: good good
[12:08] <SteveA> Kinnison: i don't understand
[12:08] <Kinnison> SteveA: launchpad-dependencies -- is it in breezy too?
[12:09] <SteveA> i believe it is in breezy universe, but i have not checked
[12:09] <sivang> SteveA: Seems like RocketFuelSetup is the right place, I can add it there instead of the package list
[12:09] <SteveA> sure, thanks sivang 
[12:09] <daf> SteveA/BjornT: perhaps one of you can look at https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~jamesh/pending-reviews/daf/launchpad/bug-2230/full-diff
[12:09] <daf> sivang: thanks
[12:09] <sivang> actually, it'd be better to move the list down as an appendix, in case something bad happens to the meta package. That's what I'll do.
[12:09] <SteveA> ok, although it becomes duplicated information
[12:10] <jamesh> daf: I wonder if it would be worth extending redirection() so that it can handle cases like that properly?
[12:10] <daf> well, we can get the list out of the history if we need to
[12:10] <SteveA> maybe better to remove it, and leave it in history as daf says
[12:10] <SteveA> jamesh: we should fix redirection()
[12:10] <SteveA> jamesh: would you like to?
[12:10] <jamesh> SteveA: sure.  How about allowing it to be used as a descriptor when used with only one arg?
[12:10] <daf> jamesh: https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/5461 is the relevant bug
[12:10] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5461: redirects should canonicalise URLs In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Steve Alexander, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/5461
[12:11] <jamesh> and use the return value of the function as the redirect
[12:11] <SteveA> jamesh: so you can write code that calculates the redirect?
[12:11] <jamesh> SteveA: yeah
[12:11] <SteveA> as in the result of it
[12:11] <SteveA> the place redirected from would still be statically looked up
[12:11] <jamesh> yep
[12:11] <daf> I'm not sure I follow
[12:11] <SteveA> sounds like a nice idea.
[12:12] <jamesh> daf: so we'd write something like this:
[12:12] <jamesh> @redirection('+source')
[12:12] <SteveA> jamesh: sure, go ahead.  please get me to be the reviewer.
[12:12] <jamesh> def redirect_source(self):
[12:12] <jamesh>   return canonical_url(self.context)
[12:12] <daf> aah
[12:12] <daf> cunning
[12:12] <daf> thanks for the example
[12:13] <jamesh> daf: that doesn't work yet though :)
[12:13] <daf> I know :)
[12:14] <sivang> SteveA: ok, will do so.
[12:18] <sivang> email backlog, that is
[12:18] <sivang> ok, now to get launchpad-database-dependencies
[12:22] <sivang> Kinnison: launchpad-dependencies depends on python2.4-profiler , which is in multiverse. the package itself is in main/optional. That is an expection to the guideline that all main packages should have their dependencies in main, no?
[12:22] <daf> sivang: yes, you're right
[12:23] <daf> sivang: the profiler was moved from main to multiverse, though I think this was before the dependencies package was created
[12:26] <sivang> daf: ah I see, well, I wanted to leave the bit that talks about the python profiler now that we have the meta package depend on it, but we need it so new people wanting to setup don't get an error when trying to install the meta package.
[12:26] <sivang> *leave out
[12:26] <daf> well, an argument could be made that the dependency package belongs in multiverse
[12:26] <daf> I'm not sure what we use the profiler for, at any rate
[12:27] <sivang> hmmm
[12:27] <sivang> daf: also, is Scott's baz bit still required ? (it says there that it is)
[12:28] <daf> the pybaz stuff?
[12:28] <daf> I believe the importd code still uses that, so yes
[12:29] <daf> I've been grepping around, and I can't find any references to 'profiler' in the Launchpad code
[12:29] <daf> perhaps somebody else knows why it's listed
[12:30] <sivang> well, if it's not needed anymore, we should remove it
[12:31] <cprov> morning guys
[12:31] <jblack> cprov!
[12:31] <cprov> jblack: hi dude, how are you ? 
[12:32] <jblack> the magic eight ball says "Answer unclear. Ask again"
[12:33] <daf> jblack: hi dude, how are you ?
[12:34] <jblack> Good. Definitely.
[12:35] <cprov> hehe, even if you ask me twice, I'd say TIRED, and the week have just started, ohh my god ! 
[12:37] <jblack> I don't pity you. 
[12:37] <jblack> You live in Brazil, which has the best coffee in all the world.
[12:44] <cprov> jblack: ok, I give up on this argument, the coffe is really good ! I'm fine and motivated now ;)
[12:45] <jblack> grin. :)
[12:47] <jordi> back
[12:47] <sivang> jblack: lol
[12:48] <jordi> doko: thanks
[12:48] <sivang> hi cprov, jblack 
[12:48] <sivang> jordi, ofcourse :)
[12:48] <jblack> now if he lived in spain, or the UK, then I'd feel his pain.
[12:51] <daf> real men drink hebal tea
[12:51] <daf> * herbal
[12:53] <sivang> daf++
[12:53] <sivang> :)
[12:54] <sivang> daf: do you like camomile tea?
[12:54] <daf> it's ok, but I'm not a huge fan
[12:54] <daf> I like Rooibos a lot
[12:54] <sivang> daf: what type of herb is that?
[12:54] <sivang> (never heared of it)
[12:55] <daf> not sure if it's a herb strictly speaking
[12:55] <sivang> funny how the package description of paramiko has the little bit at the end about "version control ..." , seems unrelated
[12:55] <daf> it's a tea-like plant that produces a red caffeine-free tea that tastes slightly of honey
[12:56] <daf> it's also called Redbush sometimes
[12:56] <sivang> eh, sounds delicious
[12:56] <daf> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooibos
[12:56] <daf> see if you can find some
[12:57] <sivang> jblack: btw, what's wrong in living in the UK?
[12:57] <daf> the coffee isn't as good :)
[12:57] <jblack> Other than the cold, wet weather, the bad food, the lack of coffee and the high prices?
[01:02] <sivang> jblack: what about excellent culture, television, intelligent people, well structured government, fresh cold air, cool accent? ;-)
[01:04] <jblack> You dare to mention the quality of television to an american? 
[01:04] <jamesh> SteveA: https://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/~dsilvers/paste/file8kSGiv.html <- here's the changes necessary to get redirection() to work as a descriptor.  Do you want me to put it up on the PendingReviews page? (it is fairly short)
[01:04] <sivang> jblack: it's a matter of taste I guess :)
[01:13] <kiko> good morning
[01:13] <kiko> my inbox looks spiffy
[01:13] <kiko> how are you jamesh?
[01:14] <jamesh> kiko: good
[01:14] <sivang> morning kiko 
[01:15] <kiko> jamesh, I pushed off your suggestion to spiv let's see how it goes
[01:15] <jamesh> kiko: how did the javascript hacking go?
[01:15] <kiko> jamesh, it was a disaster.
[01:15] <jamesh> for the collapsible fieldset thingee
[01:16] <kiko> first, it appears that anchors added are not added to the default focus chain in firefox
[01:16] <kiko> I could not get it to be tabbed into
[01:16] <kiko> second, it is considerably slower and triggers a JS error that takes 1 second to render
[01:17] <jamesh> weird
[01:17] <kiko> yeah, definitely weird
[01:25] <kiko> I need to waste some more time on it
[01:25] <kiko> but the initial attempts have not been very motivating
[01:37] <LarstiQ> jordi: thanks for the information, I'll look at how the package builds in breezy to see if that helps
[01:43] <jordi> LarstiQ: perfect
[01:44] <sivang> kiko: what sort of javascript are you wasting time at?
[01:47] <kiko> sivang, trying to add an anchor to the fieldset expander label
[01:47] <jordi> kiko: I have decided my next vacation is Cuba
[01:48] <kiko> jordi?
[01:53] <jordi> kiko: I mean, Brazil needs to wait. :)
[01:53] <jordi> you can come
[01:53] <jordi> it's very near to you
[01:54] <kiko> jordi, was that really ben goodger?
[01:54] <kiko> of ff fame?
[01:54] <jordi> ben who?
[01:55] <kiko> matsubara, bug 5730 is a dupe, could you find out of which bug?
[01:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #5730: Should be possible to search for a translation In: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/5730
[01:55] <sivang> guys, this bit 'ssh chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com cat $warthog_keys | gpg --import' should import the public keys into my home folder's .gnupg ?
[01:55] <kiko> sivang, why don't you check out RocketFuelSetup?
[01:56] <kiko> carlos!
[01:56] <carlos> kiko!
[01:56] <kiko> how's it going old man?
[01:57] <carlos> kiko, fine, thanks. Ready to work :-D
[01:57] <kiko> cool
[01:58] <kiko> carlos, spend some time looking at daf's email on bug 1681
[01:58] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #1681: Viewing a translation page fails in unix2newlines In: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/1681
[01:58] <kiko> carlos, also, help me understand one thing: why am I not getting the usual rosetta errormail that resulted from po-attach and po-import runs?
[01:58] <matsubara> kiko: bug 44?
[01:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #44: Messages should be searchable. In: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/44
[01:59] <kiko> matsubara, yeah.
[01:59] <matsubara> kiko: duped
[01:59] <kiko> as you see we have a lot of work to do on rosetta!
[02:00] <carlos> kiko, poattach is deprecated and disabled since Montreal
[02:00] <carlos> kiko, we were supposed to use TranslationUploads now
[02:00] <kiko> carlos, ok. but -import and -export are not sending me errormail, and I want to know why
[02:01] <sivang> kiko: I am checking the rocketfuelsetup , but I got "lock not permitted when trying to execute that bit"..
[02:01] <carlos> but the merge was failing because conflicts several times before I left for holidays and last merge request failed again (fixing it atm)
[02:01] <kiko> odd. sivang nudge lifeless?
[02:01] <kiko> carlos, sure, but WHAT ABOUT THE ERRORMAIL? 
[02:01] <carlos> kiko, the only explanations I can think on are:
[02:01] <kiko> :)
[02:01] <carlos> kiko, 1: our scripts are perfect now (I doubt it)
[02:02] <kiko> strike 1 
[02:02] <kiko> of course
[02:02] <kiko> because:
[02:02] <carlos> 2: there is some problem with the mailing list or the mail from the server
[02:02] <kiko> Hello zarzavaturi2,
[02:02] <kiko> Rosetta encountered problems exporting the files you
[02:02] <kiko> requested. The Rosetta team has been notified of this
[02:02] <kiko> problem. Please reply to this email for further assistance.
[02:02] <kiko> so it is failing
[02:02] <kiko> just no errormail is being sent
[02:02] <carlos> kiko, I didn't touch that code so it should work/fail as usual
[02:03] <carlos> I will investigate it a bit today
[02:03] <carlos> ok?
[02:03] <kiko> yeah, I'll leave it on your plate. thanks.
[02:03] <carlos> about daf's email, will handle it today too, don't worry
[02:03] <kiko> BjornT, how's it going?
[02:03] <kiko> carlos, cool -- it's the most-duped bug we have right now
[02:03] <carlos> ok
[02:06] <sivang> kiko: I will give it another try and then see, thanks 
[02:08] <BjornT> kiko: pretty good, thanks. (except for a few problems while trying to land my branch...)
[02:09] <kiko> BjornT, which branch, and what's going on?
[02:11] <BjornT> kiko: DefaultAffectsTarget. so far it has been problems caused by me, like having the wrong .bzr/parent, forgetting to push, having the wrong .bzr/x-push-data, but it should land soon.
[02:12] <kiko> BjornT, don't you create branches by copying landed branches you have locally?
[02:12] <kiko> that way you never get it wrong
[02:15] <BjornT> kiko: yes, i do something like that. i'm not sure why .bzr/parent and x-push-data didn't have the correct values, maybe it's because i use hard links and did something stupid.
[02:16] <kiko> hmmm. BjornT cp -ax?
[02:17] <BjornT> kiko: i use cp -al
[02:17] <kiko> -l seems dangerous.
[02:17] <kiko> but..
[02:18] <BjornT> i don't have a large enough hard drive not to use hard links
[02:19] <daf> it should be safe
[02:19] <daf> if you're using fl-cow, it's pretty much guaranteed not to go wrong
[02:24] <kiko> BjornT, it's about 300mb per tree, not too bad IMO
[02:24] <kiko> SteveA?
[02:25] <kiko> BjornT, did the TT outgoing email land?
[02:25] <kiko> and has anyone seen stub?
[02:25] <lifeless> pub holiday today
[02:25] <kiko> arham.
[02:25] <kiko> lifeless, is he reachable? I needed some gina love..
[02:26] <lifeless> kiko: if its simple, I can do it. If its not as I'm tired ... he probably is
[02:26] <BjornT> kiko: yes, it did land. it should appear in the next rollout.
[02:29] <kiko> cool BjornT 
[02:29] <lifeless> kiko: so - do you want to talk me through some gina love for you ?
[02:29] <lifeless> its 1230am here :-<
[02:30] <kiko> lifeless, yes, possibly
[02:30] <kiko> I am chatting to an asyncer, one moment
[02:39] <kiko> daf, BjornT: well, I can't imagine anything else giving you trouble with .bzr/foo
[02:39] <lifeless> kiko: I'm asleep on chair here, can I go to bed ?
[02:39] <kiko> lifeless, I'll call stub. go sleep :)
[02:39] <lifeless> kiko: thanks, night.
[02:42] <daf> hmm, who's on bzr support duty?
[02:42] <kiko> jblack? what's up
[02:43] <daf> when I do "bzr shelve", it seems to go into an infinite loop trying to do a diffstat
[02:43] <kiko> I've seen this before, hmmm
[02:43] <LarstiQ> first time I hear about it
[02:43] <kiko> I think I talked to mpool about it
[02:43] <daf> do you remember what he said?
[02:44] <kiko> I can't recall, but it was a triviality
[02:44] <LarstiQ> daf, kiko: do you have a reproducible testcase?
[02:44] <LarstiQ> ah
[02:44] <daf> well, it's just happened for a second time on a Launchpad tree
[02:45] <LarstiQ> right, launchpad trees are a bit to big for me ;)
[02:45] <daf> here's a traceback if I kill it:
[02:45] <daf> bzr: ERROR: exceptions.KeyboardInterrupt:
[02:45] <daf>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/plugins/bzrtools/diffstat.py line 67
[02:45] <daf>   in __str__
[02:45] <kiko> hey stub 
[02:45] <kiko> sorry to poke you on a holiday
[02:45] <stub> Yo
[02:46] <kiko> but the gina run failed -- could you fix up the sql and re-run?
[02:46] <stub> Its a pretty crappy movie
[02:46] <stub> Fix up the SQL?
[02:46] <kiko> it failed because we're missing arm on dapper
[02:46] <jamesh> daf: if you set BZR_PDB=1, it will give you a pdb prompt on an exception, which can be useful
[02:46] <stub> ahh... ok.
[02:46] <daf> jamesh: cool!
[02:46] <LarstiQ> daf: hmm, that's while loop over here
[02:48] <kiko> stub, what movie, btw?
[02:48] <stub> ddaa: What PostgreSQL user does bazaar.ubuntu.om need to connect as?
[02:48] <stub> kiko: The Sin Eater
[02:48] <daf> LarstiQ: aha: graphwidth = -11 :)
[02:48] <kiko> hmmm
[02:48] <stub> I shouldn't have satellite TV - I'm wasting so much time watching crap
[02:49] <kiko> I gave up on tv too
[02:49] <LarstiQ> daf: ah right, that will never work
[02:49] <daf> right
[02:49] <stub> Heath Ledger with his Australian accent attempting to do a catholic priest
[02:49] <LarstiQ> daf: so, why is it negative?
[02:49] <kiko> stub, imdb says 4.6/10
[02:49] <stub> That sounds about right
[02:49] <stub> Better than Highlander II anyway
[02:49] <daf> LarstiQ: because width < (countwidth + self.maxname)
[02:50] <LarstiQ> I see
[02:50] <SteveA> kiko: hi
[02:50] <kiko> how are you man?
[02:51] <SteveA> just been for lunch and malone discussions with bradb
[02:51] <SteveA> pretty good
[02:51] <kiko> cool
[02:51] <ddaa> stub: mh... good question...
[02:51] <kiko> SteveA, we should chat a bit sometime soon
[02:51] <SteveA> kiko: totally
[02:51] <daf> LarstiQ: in other words, it breaks on long filenames
[02:51] <SteveA> i'll make arrangements with brad and get back to you
[02:51] <kiko> cool, thanks
[02:52] <daf> I'll work up a patch later
[02:52] <LarstiQ> daf: thanks man
[02:52] <jamesh> SteveA: the changes to let redirection() be used as a descriptor came out to about a 100 line diff.  Should I just email you the changes?
[02:52] <ddaa> stub: I made it "importd" at first, but it's as restricted user as one would wish, I guess.
[02:52] <stub>  arm     | dapper | arm
[02:52] <kiko> salgado, do you think you could work on Mirror Management this week?
[02:52] <kiko> we really need this for dapper 
[02:52] <stub> Staging has a distroarchrelease for arm for dapper
[02:52] <kiko> stub, is processor missing then?
[02:52] <ddaa> stub: it's _not_ as restricted a user...
[02:52] <kiko> hmm
[02:53] <bradb> jamesh: any news back on the review response?
[02:53] <stub> ddaa: If no user is specified, it is most likely connecting as the 'launchpad' user
[02:53] <jamesh> bradb: not yet.  I'll look at it now.
[02:54] <stub> ddaa: Ok. So I should open access from bazaar.ubuntu.com to the importd user on the production database
[02:54] <ddaa> stub: mh... no user is specified... so it's launchpad now...
[02:54] <stub> ok... make that launchpad.
[02:54] <stub> Not ideal, but good enough for a one off script.
[02:54] <SteveA> jamesh: the redirection looks good
[02:54] <ddaa> stub: the thing is that we want it to be read-only
[02:54] <SteveA> jamesh: i looked at the pastebin thing
[02:55] <ddaa> stub: TBH I still need to think the issue through.
[02:55] <stub> ddaa: Ok - that can be arranged. 
[02:56] <stub> kiko: Yes - there is no processor for processorfamily 'arm'
[02:56] <jamesh> SteveA: okay, thanks.
[02:56] <SteveA> jamesh: r=me etc.
[02:57] <ddaa> So, that's a temporary thing, so we're not going to want any write access, not even for updating timestamps and such... importstatus is updated by importd...
[02:58] <stub> kiko: I don't have data for 'arm' in Kinnison's SQL scripts. I'll make some crap up.
[02:59] <LarstiQ> hmm?
[02:59] <elmo> arm?
[02:59] <elmo> say what?
[02:59] <LarstiQ> ah, elmo is here
[02:59] <LarstiQ> no need to contribute my incomplete arm knowledge :)
[03:00] <ddaa> branches will be created with owner=importd, but they are just required for bzrsync... not for importd2bzr...
[03:00] <stub> elmo: Just making up some data that is missing in the staging database so Gina will complete.
[03:00] <kiko> stub, thanks man
[03:00] <elmo> why on earth whould gina need to know about 'arm'?
[03:01] <elmo> the existing archive has absolutely no knowledge of 'arm' as an architecture
[03:01] <kiko> elmo, well, she's on the list of architectures to parse -- stub, you could also remove them.
[03:01] <kiko> remove it.
[03:01] <stub> argh... just kicked the bitch off
[03:01] <elmo> (don't get me wrong, I don't care if you want to add new arches, I just wanted to flag that it doesn't exist in the current archive in case it was a bug)
[03:02] <ddaa> stub: _all_ that is needed is read access to ProductSeries. Unless you can set up restrictive access orthogonally to the user, the best fit we have is "trebuchet".
[03:02] <stub> ddaa: Just  productseries? No related tables like product? Creating specific users with minimal permissions is no problem.
[03:03] <stub> ddaa: If you have a test suite, this can be described in security.cfg to confirm
[03:03] <sivang> anybody has an idea why when I import pqm's and importd's keys using my usb plugged .gnugp directory, gpg  creates a pubring.gpg on the disk instead of follwoing the symlink to the  usbdisk's hosted pubring.gpg ?
[03:05] <stub> kiko: So remove mention of 'arm' from staging's launchpad.conf and rerun?
[03:05] <kiko> stub, I think that's acceptable -- it doesn't exist in the current archive
[03:06] <sivang> hmm, actually this is more of a pure gpg question. taking back.
[03:06] <SteveA> kiko: voip in 10?
[03:06] <ddaa> stub: right... I need access to Product and Person as well, (and whatever is used to define teams)
[03:06] <kiko> SteveA, sounds good
[03:07] <stub> kiko: Gina running again - just dapper so she should be quick
[03:07] <jamesh> bradb: sent.
[03:08] <jamesh> daf: the redirection() changes are in the pqm queue, so it should be possible to fix the XXX in your bug-2230 branch soon
[03:09] <stub> ddaa: Is there a test suite for the migration? If so, create a new user in your security.cfg with the permissions you think you need and run it to confirm. I can then setup the same user and permissions on production. Otherwise I can just open up full read only access to ensure we meet the deadline.
[03:09] <daf> jamesh: great
[03:09] <ddaa> stub: I'd be more in favour of a full read-access.
[03:10] <ddaa> Your call to require something more specific.
[03:10] <stub> ddaa: Ok. Do you need that now or can I set it up tomorrow?
[03:10] <ddaa> You can do that tomorrow. I'm not going anywhere close a production system today.
[03:11] <stub> ok. I'll setup access tomorrow. It will be the 'ro' user you need to connect as, so make sure you can specify that in your scripts.
[03:11] <ddaa> I'm not even sure I would be able to count my finger right today :(
[03:11] <ddaa> stub: okay, that's a trivial patch to do. Do you require that patch in rocketfuel?
[03:11] <stub> ddaa: No - I have no need of it.
[03:12] <ddaa> bah, then we can just pass the user to initZopeless in the production code :)
[03:12] <ddaa> Then will put that in rocketfuel at the earliest convenience.
[03:12] <stub> Yup. Or the magic environment variables - whatever.
[03:13] <ddaa> That's cool. Environment variable is perfect.
[03:13] <ddaa> thanks stub
[03:14] <stub> env PGUSER=ro myscript.py should work
[03:14] <stub> Not sure though ;)
[03:14] <ddaa> stub: BTW there is test coverage for the migration script. It just does not test to top-level cronscripts/importd2bzr.py script.
[03:15] <ddaa> should work, I'm not specifying any user ATM
[03:17] <kiko> stub, thanks!
[03:23] <SteveA> mpt: ping
[03:26] <SteveA> kiko: i'm starting the voip engines
[03:36] <elmo> ddaa: ?
[03:36] <elmo> ddaa: any particular reason you want this on macquarie?
[03:36] <elmo> ddaa: could it go on another machine and/or another importd machine?
[03:36] <ddaa> any machine is cool
[03:37] <ddaa> stub suggested macquarie because we already both have shell accounts there
[03:37] <cprov> kiko: -> http://hillary.async.com.br/~cprov/overrides.txt, DF overrides list. could you help me to write a shell script to handle this ?
[03:37] <elmo> ok, let me see if I can find something better than macquarie
[03:38] <ddaa> (for the bystanders, elmo is talking about the bzrsync user)
[03:41] <doko> salgado: can people export .po files from rosetta via web interface?
[03:42] <salgado> doko, I'm not sure, but carlos will probably known
[03:42] <carlos> doko, yes
[03:42] <salgado> s/n$//
[03:42] <carlos> it's the download link
[03:42] <doko> dude, yes, wanted to ask you something else ... ;-)
[03:44] <carlos> doko, what do you need to know?
[03:44] <salgado> kiko, I started working on InactiveMembershipDeletion this morning. I can switch to MirrorManagement, but first I need to merge this 1700 lines patch which does a lot of cleanup/rearrangements in preparation for InactiveMembershipDeletion
[03:45] <doko> carlos: no, that was all ...
[03:46] <carlos> doko, ok
[03:53] <mpt> SteveA, pong
[03:54] <SteveA> mpt: jamesh is doing the code for the sitemap in the new layout
[03:54] <elmo> ddaa: this is a long running service right?
[03:54] <elmo> err, I mean, it's not a temporary or once-off thing
[03:54] <SteveA> i noticed that the spec doesn't have a full description of the subpillars for each pillar
[03:54] <SteveA> mpt: do you know what the subpillars are?
[03:54] <SteveA> mpt: can you tell them to jamesh and also add them to the spec?
[03:55] <ddaa> elmo: yes it's a long term thing
[03:55] <SteveA> jamesh needs to know what they are in advance, in order to make sure that the subpillar links are just to content objects, and not to individual pages
[03:55] <mpt> SteveA, I don't know them, but I could probably work them out
[03:55] <ddaa> I don't _just_ do temporary hacks :)
[03:55] <SteveA> as this would entail various more complex stuff
[03:55] <SteveA> mpt: didn't we write them down together at UBZ?
[03:56] <mpt> SteveA, no, we only had the one example for products
[03:56] <SteveA> if not, please do work out some reasonable ones right away
[03:56] <mpt> so that's 25% of them :-)
[03:56] <mpt> ok
[03:56] <SteveA> thanks
[03:58] <jamesh> mpt: just add your ideas to the end of the spec, and I'll work from that
[04:06] <bradb> BjornT: yeah, so...
[04:06] <mpt> hmm, projects have no subpillars
[04:08] <elmo> ddaa: what's the resource usage like?
[04:08] <sivang> elmo: should emailing a clearsigned copy of my id_dsa.pub to changes@d.w.h.c work from my local machine? (I usually use another machine to send email, and I'm coming form a dynamic IP probably)
[04:08] <elmo> sivang: should do, yes
[04:08] <ddaa> elmo: expected to be low, it's just reading bzr ancestry data and stuffing it into the database.
[04:09] <BjornT> bradb: not really. but since you don't need to use affects most of the time, you won't run into that problem that often.
[04:09] <ddaa> mark is being on this staying as dumb as possible and offloading all expensive tasks to the users.
[04:10] <ddaa> * mark is big on this...
[04:10] <BjornT> bradb: there should be a specific command for only choosing a task (i.e fail if the path is wrong), but it has quite low priority atm
[04:10] <elmo> ddaa: ok, thanks
[04:10] <sivang> elmo: ok, thanks. I now just need to wait to get confirmation ?
[04:12] <bradb> BjornT: right, if affects isn't required for bugs that only have one task, i'd consider that bug fixed, because the fact that it was required was the underlying reason that i filed that bug
[04:12] <elmo> sivang: umm, well a) the mail was clearsigned, but empy, b) the From was pooh@localhost.localdomain, so confirmation would be hard
[04:12] <elmo> empty
[04:14] <bradb> We have gramatically correct downtime notices. /spooOooOky/
[04:15] <sivang> elmo: oh sorry! I'll fix that and resend.
[04:16] <mpt> bradb, yeah, I think I might turn numbers 1~9 into digits because they look odd in build farm lists
[04:17] <bradb> mpt: So maybe turn them into numbers on that list?
[04:17] <bradb> that/those
[04:17] <mpt> well, our other major use at the moment in bug listings is "x weeks old"
[04:18] <bradb> yeah, i wrote that
[04:18] <mpt> is bug listings, rather
[04:18] <bradb> they look fine there, IMHO
[04:18] <mpt> you think?
[04:18] <bradb> nobody's mentioned otherwise
[04:18] <bradb> (that i've heard from, in any case)
[04:19] <mpt> well, it's the sort of subtle thing on which people wouldn't normally comment
[04:20] <mpt> like how UI guideilnes will never comment on the use of an expander for comment forms, bradb :-)
[04:20] <mpt> it's too obscure and specialized
[04:20] <bradb> mpt: People have commented on the weirdness of that though, to be sure. :)
[04:20] <mpt> ok, jamesh, I've added the subpillars
[04:21] <jamesh> mpt: thanks.
[04:21] <mpt> though I don't think product groups (aka projects) or meetings actually have any subpillars.
[04:28] <bradb> damn, my karma is sinking fast
[04:29] <bradb> nothing so motivating as losing karma for doing work in Malone
[04:29] <bradb> <insert algorithmic explanation of problem here>
[04:29] <mpt> Do people with the most karma get prizes? :-)
[04:30] <bradb> mpt: $last_week - 200, probably
[04:31] <mpt> I know how you feel, though - I used to have pitched battles with Maryland Public Television over who would be Google's #1 mpt, though it didn't matter a damn
[04:34] <daf> mpt: the Brazilian Ministry of Work seems to be beating you at the moment :)
[04:34] <bradb> mpt: do you want bug 3002?
[04:35] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #3002: malone mess comments formating In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/3002
[04:36] <sivang> elmo: I resent. This time making sure I cat the right id_dsa.pub, which is what I have on my system. 
[04:37] <mpt> daf, I don't even see them on page 1
[04:37] <mpt> bradb, that's just a duplicate of the "auto-detecting hard-wrapped e-mail sucks" bug, no?
[04:39] <bradb> mpt: which bug # are you referring to exactly?
[04:40] <bradb> i'm guessing you don't mean bug 2804, which is an entirely different thing
[04:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug #2804: Stop indenting and wrapping bug descriptions in e-mail notifications In: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Accepted https://launchpad.net/bugs/2804
[04:45] <kiko> salgado, do you think IMD will take the whole week?
[04:46] <salgado> kiko, no, but it looks like MM will take more than a week, so I rather start it soon
[04:46] <SteveA> mpt: what's the projects -> product groups thing?
[04:47] <mpt> SteveA, ddaa (I think it was) reported a bug that projects was confusing, which is entirely correct
[04:48] <SteveA> mpt: and then...
[04:48] <mpt> SteveA: What Launchpad calls products, Sourceforge and Freshmeat and gnome.org itself all call projects
[04:48] <SteveA> mpt: we need to be careful about changing our terminology
[04:48] <mpt> So we're renaming projects to product groups
[04:48] <SteveA> mpt: who agreed to this?
[04:49] <mpt> oh, it needs agreement?
[04:49] <mpt> hmm
[04:49] <SteveA> yes
[04:49] <SteveA> totally
[04:49] <mpt> should it be brought up at the meeting?
[04:49] <SteveA> i don't want you to just change some terminology we're using
[04:49] <SteveA> we need to bring it up in a meeting
[04:49] <bradb> mpt: it also would have effects on the URLs, presumably
[04:50] <SteveA> and a change of this magnitude -- renaming a "pillar" is something i want to ask mark about
[04:50] <mpt> bradb, eventually
[04:50] <SteveA> but, i have two important points
[04:50] <SteveA> 1. changes in global terminology in launchpad need to have management approve of it
[04:50] <kiko> salgado, finish IMD and then move on to MM -- we'll deliver in January, plenty of time.
[04:50] <SteveA> like, the pillars
[04:51] <SteveA> 2. when we have things like changes in terminology in mind, don't start sprinkling the new terms into documents before the change has been agreed
[04:51] <kiko> mpt, that's not a trivial change.
[04:51] <kiko> SteveA is absolutely right
[04:51] <SteveA> what i mean is, i shouldn't have heard about this change by reading an update to the NewLayout spec
[04:51] <SteveA> i expect all specs to use existing terminology and names for things
[04:51] <SteveA> when we agree to a change, then we change things
[04:51] <salgado> kiko, not really plenty of time, as I'll be on holidays after christmas
[04:51] <SteveA> otherwise it is just confusing
[04:51] <mpt> eh, I forget not everyone's subscribed to launchpad-bugs
[04:52] <kiko> salgado, when do you come back?
[04:52] <kiko> mpt, it's not something to be communicated via bugmail either
[04:52] <kiko> it's an explicit decision
[04:52] <mpt> kiko, you and your separate mailboxes ;-)
[04:52] <salgado> kiko, 2006/01/16
[04:53] <kiko> you do realize that the current naming scheme is product of some thinking by the sab himself, right?
[04:53] <kiko> salgado, and you think you can get MM done in the next two weeks? hmmm
[04:53] <mpt> kiko, no, I didn't
[04:53] <mpt> and I doubt that, actually
[04:53] <SteveA> management issues aside, it would be very confusing to people (me included) to suddenly see a whole new concept appear.  these things should be announced in launchpad developer meetings or on the launchpad@ list before being changed.
[04:54] <ddaa> I believe the "project" terminology is largely a DOAP thing.
[04:54] <salgado> kiko, I'm not sure, as I haven't read the whole spec yet. I was expecting that you'd be able to tell me how long you think it'll take
[04:55] <kiko> salgado, it's been pared down to something quite simple
[04:55] <ddaa> I do not think that anybody in his right mind would disagree with mpt proposal... but there was probably more communication to do (that's why I got that through a ML post)
[04:55] <kiko> but the ideas are a bit immature, salgado 
[04:55] <SteveA> ddaa: there is a big difference between starting something anew, and changing something that exists.
[04:56] <ddaa> mh... apparently I did not send a ML message about that.
[04:57] <ddaa> SteveA: I agree it something that requires proper communication, but this "project" terminology has been a problem _forever_.
[04:57] <ddaa> Until "projects" were turned into essentially a hidden feature, _every_ new user was confused.
[04:58] <mpt> SteveA, NewPageLayout terminology restored, MeetingAgenda updated
[04:58] <ddaa> They are hidden now.
[04:58] <SteveA> thanks mpt
[04:58] <mpt> They won't be hidden as of the next rollout, ddaa
[04:58] <kiko-fud> ddaa, I think you're right, I just want us to handle changes in a way that don't cause more damage than it's worth.
[04:58] <kiko-fud> and you must know what sort of damage I am talking about
[04:58] <LarstiQ> ddaa: I'll get to see them next rollout, we'll see if I get confused
[04:59] <ddaa> kiko-fud: totally agreed. I'm just pepping up mpt some because you were sort of both beating him up senseless :)
[04:59] <kiko-fud> heh
[05:02] <SteveA> kiko-fud: you removed the text "Add proposed items here, along with your name." from the MeetingAgenda page, so mpt didn't see that he's supposed to add his name.
[05:02] <SteveA> mpt: please add your name to your proposed agenda item.
[05:03] <sivang> yay! I have now password less logins :) I wonder if/when I would get the confirmation email
[05:06] <sivang> 'Your user code should be your launchpad login name (so "kiko" and "stevea", not "mark").'
[05:07] <sivang> hmm, I wonder how mark here is an example what not to put as $yoursourcecode... it would made sense if we had a guideline "use your first name, and first letter of last name" or so?
[05:08] <Kinnison> sivang: what's your launchpad name?
[05:08] <Kinnison> aah, it's 'sivan'
[05:09] <sivang> yes
[05:09] <sivang> get my point?
[05:09] <Kinnison> SteveA: Any suggestions here?
[05:09] <sivang> so I wondered how 'kiko' is different from 'mark' :)
[05:10] <Kinnison> it's not his name
[05:10] <Kinnison> kiko's name is Christian
[05:10] <sivang> Kinnison: ah , right.
[05:10] <sivang> Kinnison: but for my name, it's the same :)
[05:10] <SteveA> if you're asking me about a document, then please give the URL
[05:11] <sivang> SteveA: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup
[05:11] <SteveA> as for "launchpad login name", i guess it means the person name, as it appears in a URL in launchpad
[05:11] <SteveA> mine is stevea
[05:11] <SteveA> kiko's is kiko
[05:11] <sivang> ok, mines is just the same..
[05:11] <SteveA> mark's begins with s and ends in abdfl
[05:11] <sivang> I know :)
[05:17] <elmo> btw, why is gnomebaker always the second most active project?
[05:18] <SteveA> salgado / spiv: ping
[05:18] <LarstiQ> elmo: the active project listing is hardcoded atm
[05:18] <salgado> SteveA, pong
[05:18] <SteveA> elmo: i think "most active projects" is going to be changed to "featured projects"
[05:19] <SteveA> salgado: have you ever changed a MultipleJoin into something else, because of the list comprehension that is behind the MultipleJoni?
[05:20] <salgado> SteveA, no, never
[05:21] <SteveA> i guess it would be changed to some more raw-like sql
[05:21] <Kinnison> SteveA: change it to a property which returns a SelectResults
[05:22] <Kinnison> SteveA: if the listification is hurting
[05:22] <sivang> daf: I think https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup ought to be reworked when you're doing a doc rework pass, the bit with "if you are upgrading because of the URL support..." has  a big title which implies it's needed, do I have permission to add there something like "If you don't know what this is about, then you probably don't need to follow these steps" ?
[05:22] <SteveA> it's causing major timeouts on staging
[05:22] <sivang> btw, staging is showing only shipit for me ATM.
[05:23] <SteveA> sivang, daf: this is a good point.  i also want to get the set-up sorted out into some simple step-by-step instructions to get going with RF from scratch.
[05:23] <sivang> daf: Kinnison adviced that I do not need this, but I had no way to find it out from the doc without bugging him :)
[05:23] <SteveA> sivang: be specific.  what URL of staging?
[05:23] <sivang> SteveA: https://staging.launchpad.net/ :)
[05:24] <SteveA> sivang: that is not the URL of staging.
[05:24] <sivang> erm
[05:24] <carlos> SteveA, but it works
[05:24] <carlos> sivang, anyway, it works for me 
[05:24] <sivang> SteveA: what's the correct URL for staging?
[05:24] <SteveA> it shows shipit
[05:25] <carlos> SteveA, I see the main launchpad page
[05:25] <sivang> weird
[05:25] <SteveA> how odd
[05:25] <SteveA> sivang: staging.ubuntu.com, for historical reasons
[05:25] <SteveA> we should change it to staging.launchpad.net
[05:25] <sivang> SteveA: ah ok, sorry for the noise then.
[05:26] <carlos> SteveA, do we have more than one server for staging like we do for production?
[05:26] <elmo> ddaa: done - you should get a mail with the details shortly
[05:28] <SteveA> carlos: no
[05:29] <LarstiQ> one small problem, my email address extends outside of its box
[05:30] <sivang> SteveA: I'm in to working with you and daf on that, just let me know when you intend to discuss / spec it / whatever.
[05:30] <SteveA> thanks sivang 
[05:30] <daf> sivang: great
[05:31] <daf> sivang: I think the "if you're upgrading" bit is obsolete
[05:31] <SteveA> if you want, start a new wiki page with what you've needed to do in order to get stuff set up
[05:31] <daf> sivang: it refers to a change in baz
[05:31] <SteveA> this might be cleaner than altering what's there
[05:31] <sivang> daf: ok, then should I remove it, or revert to what I've suggested before?
[05:31] <daf> I think removing is fine
[05:31] <sivang> daf: ok, then I'll go to clean it up.
[05:32] <matid> Could anyone tell me how to test Rosetta translation locally?
[05:32] <daf> I'll subscribe to that page
[05:32] <matid> I exported .po file, converted it to .mo but I don't know where to place it
[05:32] <bradb> BjornT: did your merge fail?
[05:32] <daf> matid: hi!
[05:32] <sivang> SteveA, daf : I'm keen on starting a new page, but before that I'd better check how much delta it would have now that I've changed the current page.
[05:32] <daf> matid: it needs to go in /usr/share/locale
[05:33] <matid> daf: Ok, but what if I use en_US locale and I want to test pl_PL translation?
[05:33] <SteveA> also, talk with jblack.  he's been working on some docs.
[05:33] <daf> /usr/share/locale/xx/LC_MESSAGES
[05:33] <SteveA> people doing docs should talk with each other :-)
[05:33] <BjornT> bradb: not sure, haven't received a notification yet.
[05:33] <sivang> SteveA: indeed ;)
[05:34] <daf> matid: no problem: if you have have a pl_PL locale, you can test it by setting an environment variable
[05:34] <daf> e.g. if the program you're testing is foo, you can use:
[05:34] <matid> daf: I don't have pl_PL locale installed
[05:34] <daf> LANG=pl_PL foo
[05:34] <daf> matid: in that case, run "sudo dpkg-reconfigure locales"
[05:35] <bradb> BjornT: oh, n/m, I think it's just due to the delay with rocketfuel-built
[05:35] <matid> daf: Ok, but I have to install different locale to test just one app?
[05:35] <daf> yes, I'm afraid so
[05:35] <BjornT> bradb: hmm, it did fail...
[05:35] <daf> the en_US locale will still be there and still be the default
[05:37] <sivang> daf: while I'm at it, there is one bit I don't see mentioned somewhere else on that doc, I want to make sure it's not needed - "You need to assert that the pqm key is official and sign it. To do this, issue..." 
[05:37] <bradb> BjornT: oh. can i go ahead and merge my changes then? i've already ran make check, etc.
[05:37] <sivang> daf: Don't you need to sign the pqm key anymore to be able to validate or get landed stuff?
[05:38] <daf> sivang: good question
[05:38] <daf> I suspect you still need to do that part
[05:38] <bradb> BjornT: and, with --story, it's not impossible that that might make it much easier to debug whatever's breaking for you (unless, of course, it was conflicts or xx-* tests)
[05:38] <daf> IIRC, bzr checks signatures
[05:38] <daf> jblack: can you confirm that?
[05:39] <daf> sivang: https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/PQMSetup might be another candidate for improvements
[05:39] <daf> sivang: so far, my work has been concentrated on the PythonStyleGuide
[05:40] <daf> bradb: maybe we can discuss your ideas for the LaunchpadHackingFAQ tomorrow
[05:40] <LarstiQ> daf: you can set check_signatures
[05:40] <LarstiQ> daf: see http://bazaar.canonical.com/ConfiguringBzr
[05:40] <daf> ah, that's right
[05:41] <BjornT> bradb: that's ok, it's not hard to debug, i'll fix it soon.
[05:41] <matid> daf: I get '(process:24429): Gdk-WARNING **: locale not supported by C library' and it's falling back to default locale
[05:41] <daf> hmm
[05:41] <daf> did you select a Polish locale when you ran dpkg-reconfigure?
[05:41] <bradb> BjornT: just to be clear, can i merge right now then, or should i wait?
[05:42] <matid> Yes, I did
[05:42] <daf> then I don't know what's wrong
[05:42] <daf> try running "locale -a"
[05:42] <sivang> daf:  I will need to give this one a good read as well before I can improve it, I was sure all the PQM setup I needed was contained in RoFuSe ..
[05:43] <daf> :)
[05:43] <matid> pl_PL.utf8 is listed
[05:43] <bradb> daf: Hi. Unfortunately, I don't think I'll have time this week, due to the Vilnius sessions.
[05:44] <daf> matid: try "LANG=pl_PL.utf8 date"
[05:44] <daf> bradb: ah, I see
[05:44] <matid> It works
[05:44] <BjornT> bradb: i'd rather have you wait, so you can make emailinterface.txt use bug contacts instead of maintainers ;) unless you really don't have time, in that case i could do it.
[05:45] <daf> matid: ok, so you need the full LANG=pl_PL.utf8
[05:45] <matid> When I do the same for the program I do it didn't give me the error
[05:45] <matid> I mean now
[05:45] <daf> great
[05:45] <matid> Just the app isn't translated
[05:46] <bradb> BjornT: ok, i'll wait for your next merge request to finish, success or failure. :P
[05:46] <matid> I have to go, I'll be in 3 hours so I'll try to contact you
[05:46] <daf> matid: ok, I might not be around then -- I'm daf@ubuntu.com if you want to email
[05:48] <SteveA> BjornT: why did your merge fail?
[05:49] <BjornT> SteveA: i forgot to merge rf first and ensure that all tests pass
[05:49] <SteveA> i see
[05:56] <sivang> jblack: ping
[05:57] <kiko-fud> SteveA, uhm, sorry, it was a mistake.
[06:05] <salgado> SteveA, did you see the email I sent to you thursday, with a patch you asked to review?
[06:05] <SteveA> salgado: sorry -- in a phone call now
[06:10] <kiko> bradb, use email.
[06:11] <SteveA> bradb: or, another reviewer!
[06:11] <bradb> BjornT: wanna review this one? it's a small one. seriously.
[06:12] <bradb> 7 files changed, 26 insertions(+), 19 deletions(-)
[06:12] <BjornT> bradb: sure, send it to me
[06:12] <bradb> ok, thanks
[06:15] <bradb> BjornT: sent
[06:28] <bradb> lifeless:
[06:28] <bradb> bradb@chinstrap /home/warthogs/archives/rocketfuel/launchpad/devel $ ls -a
[06:28] <bradb> .  ..  .bzr
[06:28] <bradb> where are all the files?
[06:32] <daf> bradb: bzr revert
[06:32] <daf> will bring them back
[06:33] <bradb> !?
[06:33] <bradb> Two things:
[06:33] <carlos> daf, is bzr revert like the old baz undo?
[06:33] <bradb> 1. that's a dir on chinstrap
[06:33] <bradb> 2. bzr revert is to remove (forever) changes you've made to your tree, isn't it?
[06:33] <daf> oh, in that case the files don't need to be there
[06:34] <daf> carlos: kind of
[06:34] <daf> carlos: bzr shelve is more like it
[06:34] <uws> bradb: It's a repo-only directory it seems
[06:34] <uws> bradb: No working tree available
[06:35] <carlos> hmmm
[06:35] <carlos> are those commands new?
[06:35] <carlos> didn't know about them
[06:35] <daf> revert is, shelve is a plugin in bzrtools
[06:36] <carlos> ok, then is normal I didn't know about them ;-)
[06:36] <carlos> daf, thanks for the info, I really missed them
[06:36] <daf> unlike baz undo, shelve can do hunkwise reversions, which is really nice
[06:37] <carlos> cool
[06:38] <bradb> daf: Why don't the files need to be there, btw? What do you do to create a copy of your branch on chinstrap?
[06:38] <bradb> or maybe I can just push to that "empty" dir and it'll just work?
[06:39] <carlos> bradb, as far as I know... a push should be enough...
[06:39] <LarstiQ> revert has been in bzr for rather long
[06:40] <LarstiQ> bradb: you do not need a working tree if all you do is branch/push/pull
[06:40] <LarstiQ> bradb: you would need a working tree for editing files, or deployment (ie, a website)
[06:40] <LarstiQ> bradb: revert will create the working tree corresponding to the last committed revision
[06:40] <LarstiQ> bradb: does that help?
[06:40] <bradb> LarstiQ: Presumably I can merge a non-working tree into another tree?
[06:41] <LarstiQ> bradb: sure
[06:41] <LarstiQ> bradb: all the information bzr needs is in .bzr
[06:41] <bradb> ok
[06:41] <LarstiQ> push used to create the working dir too, but it costs time while most people don't need it (it should become optional though)
[06:42] <LarstiQ> bradb: hmm?
[06:42] <LarstiQ> bradb: revert doing that is intended behaviour
[06:43] <bradb> LarstiQ: how would one know that this is "intended behaviour", exactly? :)
[06:43] <LarstiQ> bradb: hmm, supposedly the documentation? :)
[06:44] <bradb> yes, and that's why i'm filing the bug :)
[06:44] <LarstiQ> bradb: I'm going for groceries now, will check if it is documented properly
[06:44] <LarstiQ> bradb: ok
[06:44] <bradb> bzr revert --help certainly doesn't mention it
[06:44] <LarstiQ> bzr help revert?
[06:44] <LarstiQ> right, that is lacking
[06:45] <LarstiQ> bbl
[06:58] <salgado> BjornT, I have a patch which gets rid of TeamMembershipSubset and move TeamMembership classes from database/person.py to database/teammembership.py, as mark asked me to do. although it's big (almost 2000 lines), it mainly moves stuff to other files. do you think you can review it for me?
[07:01] <BjornT> salgado: is it urgent to get it reviewed? i can't do it today, but i could probably do it tomorrow.
[07:05] <salgado> BjornT, not urgent, but as it touches a lot of files, I wouldn't like to have it in the review queue for too long, as that would probably mean lots of conflicts to solve
[07:05] <salgado> BjornT, tomorrow should be fine, though. I'll add it to your queue. thanks
[07:07] <BjornT> ok
[07:26] <LarstiQ> bradb: got your bugreport
[08:03] <sivang> LarstiQ: can you help me with something on the RF setup page?
[08:05] <kiko> elmo, what did you think of the queue tool demo?
[08:20] <kiko> cprov, you got mail
[08:20] <cprov> kiko: thank you 
[08:29] <LarstiQ> sivang: sure, what can I help you with?
[08:30] <sivang> LarstiQ: just for your reference, take a loot at https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup, there's a section - "GPG Signature Setup"
[08:33] <LarstiQ> sivang: the one were ~/.arch-params/ is referenced?
[08:50] <kiko> carlos, thanks for the email -- are you going to hack it out?
[08:50] <carlos> kiko, which final solution should be implemented?
[08:51] <carlos> and, daf where you looking to those bugs to fix them ?
[08:51] <kiko> yeah, good point.
[08:51] <kiko> do you know if translations on win32 can include \rs?
[08:52] <carlos> kiko, translations can include any char you want
[08:53] <kiko> so why do we outlaw them?
[08:53] <carlos> because html's textareas add the '\r' char always
[08:54] <carlos> and we don't need them with Linux
[08:54] <kiko> you want to make me cry by telling me that this is again a textarea bug?
[08:54] <carlos> I suppose, we could add some code to check if the msgid has the \r and then filter it out or not
[08:54] <carlos> kiko, ;-)
[08:54] <carlos> we added that code at the same time we deal with the textarea bug
[08:55] <kiko> I see
[09:16] <mpt> That's what we need, a Flash splash page!
[09:17] <SteveA> i want a standard flash file that says "screw you hippy!  there is no website here."
[09:18] <SteveA> but in 3D alpha channel animated star-wars float-up the screen script
[09:19] <SteveA> with noises and robots and rotating spherical checkboxes
[09:19] <SteveA> and wireframe logosplash
[09:21] <mpt> sounds like HR's "Crazy cartoon"
[09:51] <carlos> ;-)
[09:52] <kiko> sheesh
[09:52] <kiko> Traceback (most recent call last):
[09:52] <kiko>   File "fti.py", line 26, in ?
[09:52] <kiko>     raise RuntimeError('Unable to find tsearch2.sql')
[09:52] <kiko> anyone seen this?
[09:53] <carlos> kiko, dapper?
[09:54] <kiko> no
[09:54] <kiko> breezy
[09:54] <carlos> kiko, do you have postgres 7.4 and 8.0 installed at the same time?
[09:54] <kiko> yeah.
[09:55] <kiko> I see the problem.
[09:55] <carlos> kiko, then remove the 7.4 one
[09:55] <kiko> I did
[09:55] <kiko> I need to --purge it
[09:55] <carlos>  /usr/lib/postgresql/ should have only the 8.0 directory
[09:55] <carlos> yeah
[10:01] <kiko> fuck this, I'm fixing fti.py
[10:02] <kiko> I mean wtf
[10:42] <lifeless> morning
[11:17] <cprov> night guys
[11:43] <jblack> sivang: pong
[11:56] <sivang> LarstiQ: sorry, had a network outtage. nm I will ask jblack about it :)
[11:58] <sivang> jblack: I was wondering which parts of https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/RocketFuelSetup's "GPG Signature Setup" is still needed, daf suggested that this all section could be dropped, but then I noticed that there is the part where you sign pqm's key there which looks rather important. Any idea?
[11:59] <jblack> sivang: I've got rewrites of that doc here that I'll finish today.
[11:59] <jblack> but to answer your question, bzr still takes gpg signatures
[11:59] <jblack> it doesn't check them though
[12:00] <LarstiQ> sivang: ok :)
[12:01] <LarstiQ> jblack: even with check_signatures=require?