/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/17/#ubuntu-devel.txt

bmontyelmo: please sync libapache-mod-auth-kerb from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes12:10
dholbachgood night guys, i'm off to bed12:17
mdkenight dholbach 12:17
danielsnight dholbach12:19
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sivang_awaynight dholbach 12:23
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bmontyelmo: please sync sam from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes03:43
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bmontyelmo: please sync sidplay-libs from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes04:32
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bmontyelmo: please sync beecrypt from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes05:03
bmontyelmo: please sync buddy from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes05:06
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xkahnARGH!05:24
xkahnthe cupsys package has some problems with directory ownership.05:24
xkahn/etc/cups/interfaces and /var/run/cups/printcap are both root owned.05:28
xkahnthey should be owned by lp.lpadmin05:29
ajmitchelmo: please sync vrms from sid, drop changes05:30
fabbionemorning05:38
ajmitchhi fabbione 05:39
danielsmorning bella05:58
lathiatajmitch: haha06:02
ajmitchlathiat: ?06:04
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lathiatvrms06:22
lathiat:)06:22
ajmitchah right :)06:29
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fabbionehey dani06:52
fabbionebah06:53
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pittiGood morning07:12
ajmitchmorning pitti 07:12
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freeloveis ogra here?07:54
freelovehi ogra:)07:54
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freeloveis ogra here?08:49
Pygimaybe yes, maybe not08:52
Pygihehe :)08:52
sivang_awaymorning all08:54
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Pygimornin08:55
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Pygiwb sivang09:02
sivanghey Pygi , had some trouble with my freenode conneciton. Had to reconnect to make it work again09:02
Pygihehe :)09:03
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rob1jdub, are you around?09:25
Pygiseems nobody is around ;)09:26
rob1dam, I'm chasing the channel contact for #ubuntu, which is him09:27
pittiPygi: 'two people are not around -> all people are not around' is not a valid logical conclusion :)09:27
Pygilogic is not logical :)09:28
sivanghey pitti :)09:30
Pygiand btw. the way you put it, it is logical ;) deduction or somethin'09:30
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Pygion the behalf of few, conclusion on many09:31
pittiPygi: hm, I still need to learn the finer weirdnesses of English :)09:31
pittiHi sivang 09:31
Pygipitti: heh, me too ;)09:32
rob1umm, does anyone else here have ops in #ubuntu?09:32
crimsunwhat's the issue?09:34
rob1some bans that are set09:34
crimsunany particular ones?09:34
rob1for eg. the *.tor.* ban09:34
janimocrimsun, hey09:35
janimoI have removed the two other xfcemotu members as they are not motus09:35
rob1if your trying to stop tor users from accessing #ubuntu, use */tor/* instead, as your also stopping people from toronto from using the chan09:35
crimsunjanimo: hi, ok.09:35
janimoand the group desc says active members09:35
janimoI hope it's ok09:35
crimsunjanimo: sure09:36
rob1freenode has a special agreement with tor, all users will have that cloak09:36
rob1we are getting a lot of complaints about it09:36
rob1in fact, the *.tor.* ban is now ineffective with the latest hyperion upgrade09:37
crimsunfixed.09:37
rob1thanks crimsun 09:37
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rob1also, *!*@*iam.net.ma09:38
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rob1and this takes out about a million ips: *!*@85.9*09:38
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crimsunthe latter seems to host a lot of spambots09:39
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crimsunwhile I didn't set any of those, I'm not sure of a good way around that09:39
rob1yeah, they were all done by Seveas 09:40
rob1its the tor one I'm mainly concerned about09:41
rob1next time I catch him on here I'll take it up with him, thanks for that crimsun 09:41
crimsunnp09:42
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janimois there a TB meeting tomorrow? I don't see it on the fridge09:46
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infinityAny votes on whether or not I should temporarily roll back make to a version that makes CDBS work again?09:47
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pittiinfinity: sounds like the easiest fix ATM?09:50
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pittiHey dholbach 09:51
dholbachhey pitti, hey everybody else! :)09:52
jsgotangcohey dholbach 09:52
janimohey dholbach09:52
jsgotangco:D09:52
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dholbachhey jerome, jani!09:53
infinitypitti : Done.09:55
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infinityYay, obscure version number.09:55
infinitymake_3.80+3.81.b3.3.80-1ubuntu1_source.changes09:55
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siretarthi10:01
Pygihi 10:02
ajmitchhello siretart 10:04
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Pygiwelcome sabdfl10:05
sabdflmoin moin all10:06
ajmitchhi10:06
viviersflo ajmitch 10:06
sabdflRiddell: help, my desktop wont update because of kde-guidance10:06
viviersfand elo sabdfl 10:06
sabdflhey hey10:06
Pygisabdfl: any specific info you can give us? any errors when trying to update?10:07
infinityPygi : It's a known issue, no need to grill the man. :)10:09
lbmsabdfl: you know "moin" is from the southern denmark? :)10:09
Pygiinfinity: kk :)10:09
viviersfRiddell, is currently stil afk10:10
sabdfllbm: i have a peculiar fondness for denmark, and danes :-)10:10
infinitysabdfl : Yet more stuff that still needs to be rebuilt for the c2a C++ transition, that's all.10:10
sabdflinfinity: ok, looks like its down to a single package10:10
infinitysabdfl : If Riddell doesn't show up and unbreak your desktop soon, I may do it.10:11
lbmsabdfl: thanks, we like you too ;)10:11
infinitysabdfl : Two packages.  kde-guidance and python2.4-kde3...10:11
viviersfheh10:11
lbmsabdfl: have you visited denmark?10:11
infinitysabdfl : Well, some others still look a bit goofed too, but those two are causing YOUR issue. :)10:11
spaceyinfinity, they also say it in parts of germany10:15
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roycei have an hp zv5000 laptop, using live ubuntu cd most of my hardware works great.  I only have issues with my internal wlan card, it a broadcom chip, any ideas, i've heard about ndis wrapping, but I really am a n00b10:16
spaceyespecially the part close to denmark iirc :o) 10:16
Mithrandirroyce: it's documented on the wiki, and this is not a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu10:16
siretartpitti: re ffmpeg: AFAIR they don't care about sonames, I think they rather recommend linking it statically, because they don't care that much about even API compatibility :(10:16
pittisiretart: that's retarded10:16
lbmspacey: they do :)10:17
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siretartpitti: and that a real problem with ffmpeg. marillat is introducing a 'cvs' package of ffmpeg, which he updates with every new mplayer/transcode upload to his archive10:17
siretartpitti: I know :(10:17
Treenakspitti: the ffmpeg perl module depends on the ffmpeg SOURCE tree, instead of the headers, because of this10:17
Treenakspitti: (this is also why it isn't packaged)10:17
spaceylbm, seen some german beer commercial in which they say it as well ;)10:17
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pittisiretart: ok, this fact alone makes it totally unsuitable for main :(10:18
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lbmspacey: it may be from germany, adopted by the close-german danes in the southern denmark :)10:18
spacey:)10:18
siretartpitti: sadly, but true10:19
ajmitchpitti: changing f-spot to use libsqlite3-0 is easy, but preservation of the user data on upgrade isn't so simple - it'll be a little bit before I write up a main inclusion report for you :)10:21
pittiajmitch: I feel you pain, sorting out the libdbX.Y mess is similarly horrible...10:22
ajmitchpitti: changing the source of f-spot was as simple as changing the connection string, but it refuses to start if there's an older photos.db now10:23
pittiajmitch: is there a conversion tool at all?10:23
ajmitchjust using sqlite dump10:23
ajmitchwhich requires the older lib, etc to be installed10:24
pittiouch10:24
Kamionajmitch: scrollback on ext2/ext3 resize from last night: resize2fs is part of e2fsprogs and is thus in main10:24
KamionI'd generally advise using that instead of ext2resize as I think it's better-maintained10:24
ajmitchyes, ext2online went quite awhile without any updates10:25
ajmitchit worked for me, once, but I'm not brave enough to risk vital data to it10:25
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nakeeeopss:)10:28
nakeeeis bug  #288948 from debian libc fixed on ubuntu?10:29
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dholbachDiziet: good morning. i built the new yelp (2.13.3), which complains about undefined symbol PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize in /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libdocshell.so (nm -D knows about it) - do you have an idea, where i might look for answers?11:02
dholbachthat should be 2.13.211:02
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infinity(base)adconrad@cthulhu:/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox$ for i in *.so; do echo "$i:"; nm -D $i | grep PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize; done11:08
infinity[...] 11:08
infinitylibnspr4.so:11:08
infinity000185ed T PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize11:08
infinitySo, you need libnspr4.so11:08
infinityAnd, bets are it's linked to it, then resolving to the one in /usr/lib, which DOESN'T have that symbol defined.11:09
infinityThen goes boom.11:09
dholbachok, i'll poke at it... thank you11:10
infinityDiziet : When are we going to get libnspr4 shipped from firefox instead of mozilla?11:10
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carlosseb128, morning11:26
carlosseb128, Are you aware of the problem with gnome's menu on dapper?11:27
dholbachcarlos: applications menu?11:27
carlosdholbach, yes11:27
dholbachcarlos: that's a gamin issie11:27
carlosit opens but 1 second later disappear11:27
dholbachcarlos: we received the bug report already11:27
carlosok11:27
jordidoko: I wonder if you can join #launchpad for a min11:28
seb128carlos: gam_server/inotify bog11:28
carlosand the problem with applications being really slow?11:29
carlosseems like I don't have 2D/3D acceleration at all11:29
carlosthis reminds me when I was using a framebuffer console when X server was missing my video card driver11:30
dokojordi: ok11:33
fabbionehey doko11:39
fabbionedoko: thanks for fixing bash...11:39
fabbionedid you see also the error at line 370 ?11:39
fabbionedoko: sh -n would do11:39
pittiRiddell: ping11:42
infinity\sh : Around?11:43
dokofabbione: yes, yes, I did see it, too llate for the upload11:43
fabbionedoko: ok thanks :)11:43
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infinity\sh / Riddell : Whoever feels like taking ownership of it, the current python-kde3 is FTBFS, which is preventing it from making the C++ transition, which is pretenting kubuntu-desktop from being installable, which is preventing you from having LiveCDs built.11:48
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Dizietinfinity: I ought to do that by the end of the week, I think.  If I miss that it'll have to wait until the new year.11:50
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pittiKeybuk: did you ever hear about /dev/fd not existing? it happened to seb128 last week, and at Friday it happened to me, too12:04
Keybukfd?12:05
Keybukfloppy or video?12:05
Kamionoh, this is nice. screw vga=771, the 1024x768 mode on this laptop is much nicer12:06
Kamion/dev/fd is normally a symlink to /proc/self/fd, so neither ...12:07
pittiKeybuk: /dev/fd -> /proc/self/fd12:07
pittiKamion: it breaks e. g. bash script which try somethign like "echo bla > &2"12:08
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Keybukpitti: not existing when?12:13
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Keybuk(ie. do they not exist in the initramfs, in the real root, etc.)12:15
ograKeybuk, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051211-1.png see when ldm starts on my lappie :)12:16
pittiKeybuk: in the real system12:16
pittiKeybuk: it's there now, it only seems to happen sometimes12:16
pittiKeybuk: if you don't know that bug yet, I'll watch out for it12:17
Keybukpitti: that's screwy, that suggests that /etc/init.d/udev isn't run sometimes12:17
Riddellpitti: hi12:17
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seb128Keybuk: I had the issue on my desktop friday, cups was not working we tracking it to /dev/fd not beeing present12:17
ogracups relies on /dev/fd ? 12:18
Keybukgrab me next time it happens12:18
pittiogra: shell scripts do12:18
pittiogra: echo bla >&2, for example12:18
ograah ... 12:18
Keybukthose don't use /dev/fd unless the shell is *really* badly written12:19
Keybukusually it's just for things like <(echo foo)12:19
Keybukand those should already use /proc/self/fd (zsh, at least, uses this)12:19
pittiKeybuk: maye it's from perl12:20
Keybukagain, that shouldn't use /dev/fd12:20
pittiKeybuk: I saw the error when installing postgresql-common12:20
pittihm, no idea12:20
pittiit wasn't there12:20
pittithen I created the symlink, and then the package installed fine12:21
Keybuk/dev/fd is just for when you want to pass a file descriptor to something as a filename12:21
ogralamont, ping ? 12:21
Keybukfor debugging next time it happens, it's copied over from /lib/udev/devices12:22
Keybukso if it doesn't exist, that sounds a lot like the udev init script didn't fun12:22
Keybukuh, run12:22
Keybukbut if udevd is running, and you still don't have /dev/fd, the world is buggered :p12:23
pittiKeybuk: hm, that means I shouldn't have had /dev/null either?12:23
Keybukyou shouldn't have /dev/anything :p12:23
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pittiKeybuk: oh, I definively had :) my box was running all the day12:23
Keybukright12:24
Keybukso get me next time you don't have that link12:24
pittiyep, will do12:24
Kamionhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/gfxboot/20051212.png <-- new CD bootloader display, if anyone's interested12:25
Kamionmenu items won't be exactly as shown there12:25
hno73Kamion: look cool :)12:26
hno73looks even12:26
KeybukKamion: I have an mp3 you could play while those dots go out :p12:26
pittiwow12:26
KamionKeybuk: heh12:26
Kamionit technically *is* capable of playing sound, but I'd rather avoid overstressing firmware bugs12:26
seb128"foomatic-gswrapper: gs .... '-sOutputFile=/dev/fd/3' '/dev/fd/0' 3>&1 1>&2' from the cups log, which gives "ESP Ghostscript 815.01: **** Could not open the file /dev/fd/3 ."  (that's from friday)12:26
ograKamion, WOW !12:27
Kamionuses mod files12:27
lathiatKamion: nice12:27
pittiKamion: oh, btw, is it possible to add a menu point 'boot from hard disk'? that way you don't need to reboot again if you forgot to take the CD out12:27
lathiatbtw a really cool feature would be a simple 'restore boot laoder' inside the rescue stuff12:27
lathiatpitti: thatd be cool too12:27
Kamionpitti: yes, although which hard disk? :-)12:28
Kamionlathiat: already done for yaboot; should be a simple matter of programming to do for grub now12:28
lathiatKamion: the winxp boot cd somehow kicks out to boot normally12:28
sabdflKamion: very slick12:28
lathiatmaybe we can do that?12:28
pittiKamion: at least /dev/hda, but it would be ubercool to probe for all available ones :)12:28
Kamionlathiat: it assumes first hard disk I think12:28
lathiathrm12:28
lathiatwell thats better than nothing12:28
Keybukhttp://www.netsplit.com/tmp/ITVon4_Clock_1993.rm12:28
lathiatsince that is often the case12:28
Kamionbut yeah, it's probably possible12:28
Mithrandiryou can just chain to bios 0x8012:28
Kamionsabdfl: thanks12:28
Keybuk^ nearly everyone won't understand that link ... you have to be british and of the right age12:29
KamionKeybuk: haha12:30
KamionKeybuk: I was also thinking of the Countdown music ...12:30
Keybukthat'd work too12:30
KinnisonKeybuk: Oh my, that's really quite sniggerworthy12:30
KamionMithrandir: which sometimes works ;-)12:31
Kamionsome fun grub bugs about that12:31
Keybukseb128: I'm not disputing whether or not you had that bug ... I just need to see a machine like that to know what's wrong12:32
Keybukseb128: for example, that same error could be caused not by udev not making a /dev/fd symlink but by the calling process closing too many file descriptors12:32
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seb128Keybuk: it was to point what uses /dev/fd instead of /proc/self/fd :)12:34
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Kamionpitti: OK, "boot from first hard disk" item added12:49
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KamionBIOS 0x80, anything else you lose12:50
Kamionpitti: I don't think I have a way to probe hard disks at that level yet12:50
pittiKamion: oh, wow, thanks :) (I didn't expect that to happen that quickly)12:51
pittiKamion: that should already cover a very large majority of the cases, I guess12:52
Kamionyeah. it just got a lot easier fr me to do bootloader stuffbbCD 12:52
Kamion(argh)12:52
Kamionyeah. it just got a lot easier for me to do bootloader stuff12:52
Kamionalthough gfxboot is in x86 assembly and porting it to powerpc would be highly non-trivial, so that's a sticking point12:53
Keybukdoesn't the ppc have an x86 emulator in it somewhere to boot PCI cards? ;)01:00
KamionKeybuk: I didn't know that, but in any case I doubt user code can get anywhere near it. :)01:04
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KeybukKamion: well, you're still pretty close to the BIOS at that point01:12
Kamionyaboot talks through Open Firmware, which is a fairly thick abstraction layer01:13
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pitticrimsun: just replied to your osh patch; I thought I already did it on friday, but I just pinged you in IRC, as it seems :/01:32
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Kamionpitti: would you care to review gfxboot and gfxboot-theme-ubuntu main inclusion for me?02:36
ograand if you're at it, gnome-screensaver would also be nice ... mdz wants it on flight202:36
jbaileyhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com//TechnicalBoardAgenda says the next meeting is on 2005-11-29.  Should that say 2005-12-13?02:37
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nakeejbailey, any idea if bug #288948(debian number) in glibc is fixed in ubuntu's glibc?02:47
jbaileynakee: It's a kernel bug, fixed in 2.6.14, IIRC.02:48
jbaileyMight have been 2.6.15, though.02:48
jbaileynakee: So bleeding edge Dapper will solve your problem. =)02:48
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nakeejbailey, ok thanks. BTW if you look at the patch attached to the bug you'll see that it's a glibc bug as well  (some fields there are not checked right) but I gave up on glibc people a while ago as long as it stop bothering me:)03:03
jbaileynakee: The glibc folks disagree.03:04
jbaileynakee: Apparently trond didn't feel like pushing the point enough, so he tweaked the kernel to provide what glibc expects.03:04
nakeejbailey, I can understand him, the bug/fix were reported almost 3 years ago if not more:)03:06
jbaileyTrue.  And for a while we had it patched in Debian glibc.03:06
jbaileyAfter looking at the patch and looking at the defined kernel interfaces, I agreed with drepper and didn't bother forward porting the patch from 2.3.2 to 2.3.503:07
jbaileyBy that time, trond already had a patch to make the kernel behave correctly.03:07
nakeein debian, they merged the patch with some weird irix problem, and it didn't solve the problem we had03:07
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nakeejbailey, even if the stracture is a kernel issue the overflow caused IMOH is a glibc bug03:10
jbaileyIt's been over a year since I looked at it.03:10
jbaileyGlibc's job is not to check for overflows and such.03:11
jbaileyIf you hand it a bad value, it's job is to crash is strange and wonderful ways. =)03:11
sivanghehe03:12
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=== nakee sigh
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nakeesivang, btw how is hebuntu going?03:29
nakeesivang, or whatever other name it has now:)03:30
nakeesivang, did you get the mozilla patchs working?03:30
infinityRiddell : <poke>03:32
Riddellinfinity: hi03:32
infinityRiddell : Pretty please, with sugar on top, make python-kde3 buildable again. :)03:33
infinity(It's FTBFS in current dapper, which prevents it from transitioning)03:33
infinityIf you fix that, kde-guidance can be rebuilt, and kubuntu-desktop can be installed.03:33
infinityAnd you get livecds!03:33
Riddellinfinity: \sh said he was waiting on a new upstream release which was happening weekend just past03:33
Riddell\sh: what's the status?03:33
infinityI hit upstream's webpage and saw no such release.03:33
\shRiddell: I'm working on it03:34
infinityYou may have to do a CVS/SVN/whatever pull yourself.03:34
infinity\sh : Oh, yay.03:34
\shinfinity: jim said there will be a snapshot soon03:34
=== infinity unpings you both, then.
infinity\sh : Flight-2 is happening "any hour/day now", so if you can get an interim snapshot that builds, you can get in on the action.03:34
\shinfinity: and if there is not a one in the middle of the week, i'm taking the actual release and fix it...well it won't give you any 3.5 stuff03:34
\shinfinity: k...give me this night :)03:35
\shi catched a stupid cold03:35
sivang\sh: you too?03:35
infinityI'm off to bed.  If I see that you uploaded python-kde3 while I was asleep, I'll clean up after it and make sure kubuntu-desktop works.03:36
\shthroat pain and fever...typical stuff03:36
infinityCheers, guys.03:36
\shinfinity: rock thx :)03:36
sivang\sh: yeah, me too - bad.03:36
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janimoRiddell, ping03:40
janimois system-tools-backend going to be used in kubuntu?03:41
\shpreparing a new pyqt 3.15.1 upload...grrr03:41
janimoand another: ivman is still a dep of kubuntu-desktop is it still used by kde?03:42
\shdid anybody fix cdbs and this install target problem?03:42
infinity\sh : I rolled back make, so yes, it's fixed.03:42
infinity\sh : Well, "fixed".03:42
Riddelljanimo: we don't use system-tools-backend, knetworkconf includes its own copy of the network backend03:42
\shinfinity: cool :)03:43
infinity\sh : The real fix will happen later, but it will work fine for you on an up-to-date system (and the buildds are all up to date)03:43
Riddelljanimo: oh aye, seeds were giving me bother, I'll remove that now03:43
\shinfinity: i just updated my pbuilder03:43
janimoRiddell, us s-t-b a moving target or why was it chosen to copy instead of linking to it?03:43
Riddelljanimo: I suspect when knetworkconf started there was no separate system-tools-backend package from upstream03:45
RiddellI should talk to the author about that03:45
janimook, thanks03:45
dokopitti: adding /etc/xpdf/xpdfrc to popple-utils would mean a conflict to xpdf?04:01
pittidoko: depends04:02
pittidoko: poppler-utils already conflicts to xpdf-utils04:02
pittiso if xpdf-utils ships that conffile, then we would already have the conflict04:02
pittiif it's shipped by -common, though...04:02
pittidoko: would that conffile actually make sense for poppler-utils?04:02
pittii. e. does it actually use it?04:02
dokoI don't know, didn't look04:04
pittidoko: if p-u doesn't use the conffile, then I'd just remove the symlink from cups04:05
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dokopitti: I would have to grep the sources ;-)04:08
tsengpitti: have you looked at avahi for main inclusion?04:08
tsengpitti: sorry no rush, just curious04:09
pittitseng: hrm, still busy with security updates04:10
tsengpitti: id rather have those :) thanks.04:10
carlosvuntz, hi, are you around?04:14
vuntzhi carlos04:14
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ograhey lamont__ 04:24
ograany news about edubuntu-live ? 04:25
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\shRiddell: first package up...sip4 4.3.204:26
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Riddell\sh: you rock :)04:31
\shwell..now for a new version of pyqt304:31
Gagatanregarding pyqt.. any news about pyqt4 yet?04:32
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Gagatanfrom a developer/user point of view.. not maintainer04:32
\shGagatan: that is pyqt-ml...not ubuntu-devel :)04:32
Gagatan\sh: was afraid you'd say so.. ;) it was worth a shot ;)04:33
\shGagatan: but thinking about an crippeled pykde implementation (not ready for 3.5) I don't wanna think about pyqt404:33
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\shGagatan: so it makes me cry04:34
=== Gagatan gives \sh a papertowel
\sh*sniff* thanks04:34
ograGagatan, you really want him to get a sore nose ? 04:35
\shogra: i already have one....04:35
=== ogra gives \sh a handkerchief instead
ogra(a real soft one) :)04:36
Gagatanogra: its with moisturiser and stuff :)04:36
ogralol04:36
Gagatanor however its spelled 04:36
\shogra: well...thinking about my cold...and you are caring about suse :) I should come to you..I need someone who takes care about me as well :)04:37
ograargh ...04:37
\sh*cough* 04:37
ograi already am near the edge of my capacity ...04:37
zakameogra: awww04:38
ogra4h sleep max ...04:38
ograthen i have to rush and cook tea for her, get the pills etc ...04:38
=== mvo waves to \sh
\shogra: well for me only a grog04:38
ograbut it seems to get better 04:38
\shhey mvo 04:38
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\shmvo: I had to postpone the call to hartmut...my voice is a bit croaky04:41
mvo\sh: no problem04:41
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\shi'm wondering where my upload is...04:43
ogragone to unstable ? 04:44
\shno04:44
\shwoooow04:44
\shyou actually don't know who send me an email04:44
ogratell us04:44
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jsgotangcohello04:46
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lamont__ogra: edubuntu livecd fs images have been building just fine since the 2nd run on dec 904:51
ograoh cool !!!04:52
lamont__==> new target04:52
ogralamont__, thanks a big lot ...04:52
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=== lamont__ tosses the potato to Kamion
Mithrandirthey don't work, partly due to a kernel bug.04:52
MithrandirI have spent some time investigating it today, there's a certain amount of insanity needed to fix it.04:53
lamont__Mithrandir: "they"?04:53
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Seveasthere's insanity enough in here :)04:53
Mithrandirlamont__: they as in "the live cds"04:53
lamont__edubuntu, or everything?04:54
Mithrandirlamont__: everything.  The kernel's busted wrt cloop images and devmapper snapshots.04:54
Mithrandirlamont__: benc has a fix in the pipeline/to be uploaded, though.04:54
\shRiddell: python-qt3 3.15.1 will hit katie soon04:58
=== Riddell does the python-qt3 dance
lamont__seb128: .libs/gatomic.o: In function `IA__g_atomic_int_exchange_and_add':/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.9.1/build-tree/glib-2.9.1-deb/glib/gatomic.c:417: undefined reference to `__sync_fetch_and_add'04:59
lamont__what's that mean?  (ia64)04:59
=== lamont__ asks seb128 because he owns the letter 'g'
\shmvo: btw...debtags raises errors...05:00
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seb128lamont__: that ia64 sucks maybe? :p05:01
lamont__seb128: it sucks, but not that way.05:03
seb128lamont__: I don't really have an idea on this issue in fact :)05:04
lamont__seb128: I kinda figured it was arch-specific code that was just missing for ia6405:04
lamont__I'll play with it sometime soonish05:04
lamont__glib2.0 and vbetool seem to be all that's breaking ubuntu-desktop installability on ia64 atm05:05
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silbsjsgotangco: ping05:05
jsgotangcosilbs: hi there05:05
mvo\sh: should be fixed with the upload from today05:06
\shmvo: k05:08
\shand I found a really serious bug in python-qt305:08
\shbut I hope I will fix it now05:09
seb128lamont__: what version of gcc do you have on ia64? current archive one?05:10
\shbrb05:10
seb128lamont__: 05:11
seb128<mclasen> seb128: could also be a glibc version issue, I guess. I don't actually know where these __sync... functions live05:12
seb128<mclasen> seb128: the patch to change __sync_..._si to __sync_... came from suse05:12
seb128lamont__: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32122905:13
seb128lamont__: I guess the issue is this patch: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=54637&action=view05:13
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Kamionogra: as Mithrandir says ... but I'll turn Edubuntu live on once that's all fixed05:19
ogragreat 05:20
ograi'm eager to see it :)05:20
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mdzogra: your latest ldm branch seems to include an unrelated change adding 'quiet splash' to the pxelinux config05:30
ograis that bad ? since we wanted to enable it anyway 05:30
mdzogra: I have no problem with the change, but it's confusing to mix it with the ldm changes, and splash won't have an effect until usplash is installed05:31
ograyes, it would belong into the fixes branch, but i had no such branch at that time ...05:31
Kamionpitti: did you see my note about gfxboot and gfxboot-theme-ubuntu? sorry to rush, but I'd like to get it in for Flight 2 (now just blocked by kernel and casper) if possible for widespread testing05:31
ograand found cosmetiacl stuff would fit in there05:31
pittiKamion: I saw the wiki diff, yes05:32
ogramdz, i wont do it again, that what the fixes branch is for now ...05:32
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jsgotangcomdke: hello05:33
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mdkehi jerome :)05:33
\shjesus fixed05:33
ogramdz, also most of peres fixes have no effect at all with our xorg ...05:34
ograthe preseeding just doesnt get accepted05:34
\shI wonder why nobody including me saw that python2.4-qt3-gl was missing 05:34
pittiKamion: just promote it now, and I process the report formally tomorrow; it does not have any security history, and if you are fine with the packaging etc., then it's certainly ok05:36
mdzogra: merged05:36
ograYAY !05:36
=== ogra dances
pittiKamion: I'll try to do it today, but I'm not sure whether I'll manage that05:36
Kamionpitti: ok, I just didn't want to make that decision myself since as author of the latter I wasn't qualified05:36
Kamionthanks05:36
mdkemdz, got 2 minutes to discuss the ubuntu-docs possible update? some problems with it...05:36
Kamionbut yes, I think security issues are rather implausible by nature05:37
pittiKamion: erm, I'd rather say as author of that package you are :)05:37
mdzogra: I don't have time to test it; I'm uploading 0.6105:37
mdzogra: if you need to make uploads while I'm away, please create a dapper branch05:37
Kamionpitti: perhaps "disqualified" is a better word05:37
ogramdz, fine, will test and report back ...05:37
pittiKamion: right, there is hardly some user input, and at the boot level there is not much room for exploits05:37
ogramdz, will do05:37
mdzmdke: ok, go ahead05:37
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pittiKamion: or, rather, many possibilities to avoid exploits05:37
Kamionhm, possibly gfxboot-theme-ubuntu should be Architecture: amd64, i38605:38
mdkemdz, cool. It works good afaics, but the introduction of a number of new translations has meant that the debdiff is absolutely enormous. This is partly because a lot of part-done translations are included, with both translated and english text...05:38
pittiKamion: it isn't arch:all?05:38
Kamionpitti: it is at the moment, but it depends on gfxboot which is only available on amd64/i386, so I create an uninstallable on powerpc the way it is now05:38
KamionI'll fix that05:38
mdzmdke: I understand05:38
mdzKamion: will you still be able to release flight 2 this week given thurs/fri?05:39
mdkemdz, to keep the debdiff manageable it might be possible to include just "common" or completed translations, but at the same time it might be a shame that others efforts don't go in.. any ideas?05:39
Kamionmdz: I sincerely hope and believe that it will be long past come Thursday05:40
Kamionthe kernel upload will happen in a few hours, I'm told05:40
hunger_yahoo, with the latest usplash update my system boots again:-)05:40
Kamionthen it should be straightforward to fix casper (I think Mithrandir has this mostly done)05:40
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KamionMithrandir: if we kick stuff through quickly this evening with the new kernel, will you be able to sync down a live CD for casper testing/upload?05:41
MithrandirKamion: as in, tonight or tomorrow?05:41
Mithrandir(UTC)05:41
KamionMithrandir: tonight05:42
Mithrandiryes, I could do that.05:42
Kamionthanks05:42
jsgotangcogood night05:46
ogranight jsgotangco 05:46
ogramdz, you didnt merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/fixes/ ?05:53
ogra(its a one line change that unbreaks the edubuntu CD)05:53
mdzogra: I only read the subject of your mail05:54
ograah...05:54
mdzogra: will have a look now05:54
ograthe default distro is still breezy in ltsp-build-client ... doesnt work if you run it from CD :)05:55
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mdzogra: merged, uploaded, pushed05:56
ograthanks :)05:56
ograi wont bother you anymore then :)05:56
mdzand permissions fixed on rookery as a bonus05:57
ograheh05:57
ograwhat was wrong there ? 05:57
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mdzogra: https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/480006:00
ograah06:01
ograi dont use james bond premissions locally, thats why i never noticed ;)06:02
mdkemdz, so what do you think about this update?06:02
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mdzmdke: it sounds OK, though I would like to see the diff06:05
mdkemdz, of course, i just wanted to make sure you were prepared to read it... it's 8.5MB long...06:06
mdkemdz, if you are, when its finalised I'll ping you. If not, we can work something else out06:06
mdzmdke: I'll sort it out06:07
mdkegreat06:07
mdkemdz, thanks!06:07
mdzmdke: has it already been  built on breezy and tested on breezy?06:08
mdzmdke: was it tested in multiple locales_?06:08
mdkemdz, yes. I tested in my locale and in IT, i'll do a few more later06:08
mdkeneed to test "ast" ;)06:09
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\shhmm..when I'm introducing a new binary package build from source...does elmo have to NEW it? 06:21
mdkethe language selector on breezy is only showing my installed locales, and doesn't give me a list of new languages I can add... anyone reproducing?06:21
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ogra\sh, yup06:23
mdkenm06:23
\shogra: thx06:24
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seb128pitti: hum, cups eats 100% of CPU looping on "write(1, ptrace: umoven: Input/output error 0x7c514d6, 4498984)            = -1 ENOSPC (No space left on device)" if /var is used at 100%06:27
mvomdke: is you package list up-to-date?06:27
mvomdke: usually a apt-get update fixes it06:28
mdkemvo, yeah it's fixed, sorry :(06:29
mvomdke: no worries06:29
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\shelmo: please sync glabels , jabberoo , istanbul from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes, thx06:36
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\shelmo: and please move python2.4-qt3-gl from NEW (it was missing from the former sources and it's important for flight-2) thx again06:38
\shinfinity: python-kde3 just builds...will upload it in a few06:38
\shbbl...06:38
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pittilamont: do you know why curl_7.12.3-2ubuntu3.4_source.changes (hoary-security) doesn't build?06:45
=== lamont__ looks
lamont__Built successfully06:46
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lamont__Rejected: libcurl2-dev_7.11.2-12ubuntu3.2_ia64.deb: old version06:46
lamont__+(1:7.11.2-12ubuntu3.2) in hoary-security >= new version (1:7.11.2-12ubuntu3.2)06:46
lamont__+targeted at hoary-security.06:46
lamont__note that the version of libcurl2 is hardcoded in debian/rules.  kthxbye06:46
lamont__must be manually bumped06:46
pittilamont__: argh, I bet that's it06:46
pittilamont__: thanks06:47
pittithat's soo retarted...06:48
eruinlooks like there's something wrong with http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/source/Sources.gz - gzip exits with errors according to apt06:49
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ograworks here06:50
eruinlovely.06:50
mdkedoes anyone have any idea why the default homepage on firefox might be a different address depending on which language the user selects when logging in?06:52
Hieronymusmdke: yes06:52
ogramdke, thats a change from  breezy afaik06:52
mdkewhat's going on?06:53
ogramdke, there is a wikipage anywhere describing it06:53
mdkeogra, yeah but not describing what I'm seeing...06:53
ograhmm06:53
mdkeenglish and french have the about ubuntu page. italian has google start06:53
mdkemaybe something in the firefox localised package?06:54
mdkeogra, what is german?06:55
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mdkebrb, trying a couple more languages06:56
ogramdke, hmm, i switched it to about blank ... 06:56
ograbut i think i remember it was the mozilla page 06:56
ogramdke, if i remove about:blank its the ubuntu page as well06:57
siretartpitti: apropos retarted stuff: I just had another look at ffmpeg. ffmpeg in debian/main ist a static lib only. Marillat therefore has 'cvs' versions of ffmpeg, which DO introduce a proper soname06:58
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mdkeogra, yeah it works on all languages I've tried, except italian, weird :)07:01
mdkegnome fonts are screwed in czech too ;)07:01
=== ogra reboots to test new ldm
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mdkemdz, ok the package is tested on german, czech, english, italian and french with a new user on Breezy and works fine (subject to an unrelated bug with Italian firefox having the wrong homepage). Uber-debdiff is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/debs/breezy-updates . Let me know if you need anything else, i'll be online later.07:04
crispin_Keybuk: ping ?07:04
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Keybukcrimsun: yup?07:06
crispinI'm the reporter of that 'unbootable system' bug, and have my machine back in its unbootable state07:06
Keybuk*nods*07:07
Keybukgive me five minutes, just dealing with something else, and I can give you my full attention07:07
crispinok07:07
Keybukcan you get that machine to the point it's sitting at "ALERT! The sky fell on my head!" or whatever it said07:07
Keybukand then join #ubuntu-boot07:07
crispinyep, will do07:08
BenCKeybuk: hey!07:11
BenCKeybuk: is there a problem with us having ide-core built-in?07:11
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ogramdz, ldm works fine ...07:16
mdzgood07:17
=== ogra tries new usplash on thin client ...
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pittilamont: are you still responsible for building livefs images?07:21
pittimdz sent me a log with a failing cupsys-driver-gimpprint, but it works fine for me07:21
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dholbachmvo: have fun07:23
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lamont__pitti: I build em, yes07:24
lamont__but I need more detail on what you're asking...07:24
pittilamont__: do you still get that error?07:24
pittilamont__: cupsys-driver-gimpprint was uninstallable on that log (failed on configure)07:25
lamont__architecture, which livefs, build error or runtime? etc07:25
pittilamont__: i386, terranova, Thu,  8 Dec 200507:26
pittilamont__: build time07:26
lamont__ubuntu?07:26
lamont__vs {k,ed}ubuntu?07:27
pittiyes07:27
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mdzmdke: ok, looks good, ping me or Kamion for final approval once it's uploaded07:33
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ogramdz, btw, latest bootchart from my laptop s client: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/student-control-panel_shot.png07:33
ograoops, wrong paste07:33
ogramdz, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051211-1.png07:33
ogralook when ldm starts :)07:33
mdzogra: that looks very strange07:34
mdzwhy does that chvt run forever?07:34
ograwhat? booting in 20seconds ? 07:34
mdzthat chart should end at about 25 seconds07:35
mdzbut instead it's 1:3407:35
ograbootchart is very slow ... no idea it takes about 2 minutes on the thin client to get the login, but the chart stops earlier there07:35
ogra(console login that is)07:35
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ogramdz, i rather think its a problem with bootchart than chvt07:36
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mdzogra: it doesn't look that way to me07:36
ograhmm07:37
mdzbootchart is clearly still sampling during that time07:37
mdzyou can see the changes in Xorg07:37
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ograright ...07:37
ograi'll investigate ... but the booting is incredible fast on this laptop ...07:38
Keybukbootchart is stopped by the zzz-bootchart-stop script07:38
ograyes07:38
mdzMithrandir: feel free to make uploads to dapper from your casper branch while I'm away; just be sure to sort out the bzr situation so that I can merge when I return07:38
Keybukthat's not being run ... because that chvt is running07:38
Keybukyou can see the slight space that it's own parent script is run at the end07:39
Mithrandirmdz: sure.  Worst-case, I'll just replay the revisions.07:39
Mithrandirmdz: I'd like to let Kamion release flight 2 first.07:39
Kamion(doing install CD testing with gfxboot nowish)07:39
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mdzMithrandir: agreed07:39
ograso its a prob with console-screen ? hmmm07:40
MithrandirKamion: rock, that'll unblock a couple of things for me. :-)07:40
Kamionalthough of course I need to switch to the new kernel anyhow, but I want to catch any other trailing stuff07:40
KamionI have a nagging feeling that I've forgotten one piece of the gfxboot deployment work, but never mind ...07:40
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tsengKamion: do i need to do anything to test beyond installing the packages?07:41
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ograinfinity, the new usplash leaves the d of failed on the screen, the status (ok/failed) is to far to the right it seems07:41
Kamiontseng: for what?07:41
tsengKamion: gfxboot07:41
Kamiontseng: our gfxboot stuff only supports syslinux at the moment, so it's only useful for install CDs right now07:42
Kamion(and live CDs)07:42
=== tseng ohs
Kamionthere's not much point installing it on a normal system unless you want to grab the grub patches from SuSE and try those out07:42
KamionI'm very strongly inclined to avoid those for dapper, though07:42
ogramdz, i guess chvt hangs in the unicode_start/stop calls, there is no locale set in the thin client env ...07:43
KamionI suspect gfxboot-theme-ubuntu doesn't fully handle the normal-boot/non-syslinux case anyway07:43
mdzI see no reason why a lack of locale would cause it to hang07:43
Kamionchvt surely doesn't call unicode_{start,stop} itself anyway07:43
ograbecause console-screen.sh tries to set UTF-8 locales ? 07:43
Kamionit just changes the vt07:43
mdzogra: strace would probably be enlightening07:44
ograyup07:44
MithrandirKeybuk: gnrr, udevinfo -q name -p /block/cloop0 claims it doesn't know anything about that device. :-/07:45
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Keybukheh07:45
Keybukprobably doesn't07:45
Keybukudev isn't a device database07:45
MithrandirKeybuk: did in breezy.07:45
Keybukyeah, udev change upstream07:45
Keybukthe db only contains information on things there are rules for07:46
Mithrandirhmkay.07:46
Mithrandirso.. just look for /dev/cloop0, then?07:46
Keybukyeah, if udev doesn't know about it, look for the name you expected07:46
KeybukBenC: could you come back into #ubuntu-boot please07:46
ograoh, cht isnt from console-screen ....07:47
ogra*chvt07:47
mdznope07:47
Kamionoh, I forgot splash.pcx, I knew there was something07:47
mdkemdz, thanks. I'd upload it now, if I knew how :D07:48
Kamionyay for YA splash image format07:48
=== ogra makes a astonished face seeing the head of /etc/init.d/usplash
ograso does DCC support usplash ?  *grin*07:50
seb128elmo: please sync gtk+2.0 from Debian incoming07:50
=== tseng points ogra at "skeleton"
tsengogra: look at some more init.d headers07:51
mdzsabdfl,mjg59,Keybuk: don't forget about TB tomorrow; I won't be there07:51
ogratseng, ah, thanks :)07:51
ogratseng, i thought it referred to the usplash script :)07:51
Keybukmdz: would you like me to drive in your place?07:52
mjg59mdz: Ok07:52
mdzKeybuk: yes07:52
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mdkeDiziet, do you know if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation is working?08:06
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ograhmm, putting strace in the uspalsh script in front of the chvt seems not to work ...08:11
ograbut running it manually produces a strace that complains about missing locales08:11
\shdamn..pykde still compiling08:11
mjg59seb128: What do I need to do to make sure an icon-theme.cache gets updated when I install new icons?08:14
mjg59Just gtk-update-icon-cache in the postinst?08:15
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seb128mjg59: we don't use the icon cache out of some themes because the implementation is a crapy one08:16
mjg59seb128: Currently, the situation is that I install new icons and my package can't find them08:16
seb128you have to update the mtime of the directory every time a package install an icon08:16
seb128or the cache masks silently the icon08:16
seb128which make apps crash and other funny stuff08:17
mjg59And how should that be done?08:17
mdkeDiziet, if it is, it struck me that it would rock pretty hard to actually ship some translated html08:17
seb128patch every single package existing to update the mtime08:17
seb128or don't make an icon cache08:17
seb128we picked the second one, we don't make an icon cache for hicolor08:17
seb128if you have one the easiest way is probably to rm the file08:18
mjg59seb128: Same in Debian?08:22
mjg59I'm just wondering where I got this one from now08:22
seb128yep08:23
mjg59Ok08:23
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ogramdz, seems it was a bug in the old usplash package, it doesnt happen with the upgraded one 08:26
ograhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png08:26
ogramdz, ^^08:26
mdzMithrandir: what is the purpose of findcommandinroot in your casper-reconfigure?08:26
mdzMithrandir: does the chroot(1) in initramfs not search $PATH?08:26
ogracompared to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051211-1.png08:26
mdzogra: what was the bug?08:26
Mithrandirmdz: no, it doesn't search path08:27
mdzMithrandir: I'd be inclined to treat that as a bug, since it should be trivial to fix in busybox/klibc/whatever08:27
ogramdz, no idea, but the bootchart was from yesterday, i had the old usplash ... it doesnt happen at all with the new one ... do you want me to roll back to the old package ? 08:27
Mithrandirmdz: sure, that'd be nice.08:28
KamionMithrandir: that's really odd, because busybox chroot uses execvp()08:28
mdzKamion: klibc includes a chroot command, too08:28
Kamion... which uses execve()08:29
Mithrandiryeah, it might be the klibc chroot command I'm calling.08:29
Kamionthere we go, smoking gun08:29
Kamionwe should just use the busybox one08:29
Mithrandirif we fix that, I'd be very happy08:29
Kamion(since klibc is probably going away anyway)08:29
mjg59mdz: Did you have any joy in finding the patch that broke suspend?08:30
mdzogra: it could just as easily be a race or something; I know of no such bug being fixed in usplash, there is nothing which looks relevant in changelog, and it would be very odd in the first place for usplash to cause chvt to hang somehow08:30
KamionMithrandir: chroot is disabled in the busybox initramfs config; shall I enable it?08:31
ogramdz, i'll keep an eye on it, but with five boots i did now it didnt happen08:31
mdzmjg59: none whatsoever; I got as far as a git checkout by week's end08:31
mjg59mdz: Ok08:31
MithrandirKamion: please do08:31
mjg59mdz: I don't have time to track that down now, I'm afraid08:31
mdzKamion: klibc is going away entirely, or just from our initramfs?08:31
mjg59But there's been another bug filed (another Thinkpad user, no idea if it's linked)08:31
mdzmjg59: me either; I leave town tomorrow08:31
Mithrandirmdz: http://err.no/tmp/dapper-20051212-1.png08:31
mdzMithrandir: that's the existing livecd, right?08:32
Mithrandirbootchart from simplifiedlivecd08:32
mdzoh, interesting08:33
mdzdo you have a standard livecd bootchart from the same machine for comparison?08:33
mdz40 seconds for adduser seems way excessive08:33
Mithrandirloading perl takes a while08:33
Mithrandiras well as libc6, etc, etc.08:34
MithrandirI'll get you a chart, wait a little08:34
mjg59Mithrandir: Hmm. X is starting after 155 seconds?08:34
mdzinit.d/hplip calls dpkg-statoverride? freakish08:34
Mithrandirmjg59: sounds about right.08:34
Mithrandirmdz: yes, it's crack08:34
Mithrandirmdz: note that I got distracted by IRC and such so the boot chart is a bit longer than it should be.08:35
Mithrandirbut since there's no interactivity, it doesn't really matter08:35
KamionMithrandir: oh, hmm, you would have to use 'busybox chroot' explicitly though; we don't ship the symlinks08:35
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MithrandirKamion: more or less anything to get rid of the evil hacks I've added so far08:36
Kamionmdz: from our initramfs, as I understand it; we currently often/always (?) include glibc for things like raid/lvm that haven't been ported to klibc yet, and Scott/Jeff seemed to be leaning towards "oh, let's just use glibc"08:37
ograhmm, that might be odd for thin client memory usage08:37
Keybukright08:38
Keybukporting to klibc is annoyingly hard for not-a-huge benefit08:38
Keybukif every app in there was klibc, it would be a benefit08:38
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Keybukbut as soon as one isn't, it's actually a deficit08:38
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=== ogra sees the target of 32MB clients dissapear at the horizon
Kamionoh god, I so want to kill base-config08:41
KamionMithrandir: done08:41
MithrandirKamion: \o/08:41
mdzKamion: meaning "let's just use coreutils/util-linux/etc."?08:42
mdzKamion: or "let's just use busybox linked with glibc"?08:42
Kamionmdz: I don't think it matters much, although busybox would keep the initramfs size down08:43
Kamionthe cost of klibc is AIUI much higher than the cost of busybox right now08:43
mdzreally?08:43
Kamionwe could continue to use klibc-utils built against glibc08:43
Kamioncost as in amount of work we have to do to support it08:43
mdzklibc is like 250k, lib + utils08:43
Kamionnot as in space08:44
mdzoh, the PITA cost08:44
Kamionmeh, broken locale configuration in today's installer, I guess that isn't surprising08:45
Mithrandirmdz: http://err.no/tmp/dapper-classic-livecd.png is the classic livecd.08:45
Mithrandirmdz: note that the kernel versions are not the same here08:45
Mithrandir(the header of the last of them lies)08:45
KamionI think I'm going to have to install a language pack as part of the base system08:45
robtaylorKamion: I guess ulibc isn't a win here?08:46
mdzMithrandir: what causes it to lie?08:46
Mithrandirmdz: that I didn't have a header file from the run, so I just stuck the one from the previous boot on top of it. :-P08:47
Mithrandirso, not a bug, just me being lazy.08:47
Kamionrobtaylor: I imagine it has pretty much the same detriments as klibc, i.e. more work for no gain unless you convert everything08:47
Kamionrobtaylor: there's nothing wrong with klibc itself, it's just worthless unless you convert everything to use it08:47
Mithrandirmdz: note that my machine has 2GB of ram, so anything read in generally won't be thrown out again.08:47
robtaylorKamion: well last i saw it was pretty near to a drop in replacement apart from really obscure stuff08:47
Kamionand that either involves multiple build passes or else multiple libcs running on the real system08:48
robtaylorKamion: like on scratchbox, you can actually make a debian distro against ulibc08:48
Kamionthe former risks introducing subtle bugs, and the latter just sucks08:48
Kamionrobtaylor: er, sure, but we're not building the whole of Ubuntu against uclibc08:48
robtaylorKamion: thats true08:48
jbaileyKamion: I'm lagging quite a lot since I'm on a phone call, but part of the idea has been that busybox ought to be able to be removed for the initramfs.08:49
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robtaylorKamion: heh, i know,just using that as an example of its completeness, but you're right, its not a win here as space isn't the primary concern and you end up with having multiple build passes..08:50
Mithrandirmdz: hmm, when looking at the second graph, it's just until the pivot_root.. :-/  I thought I had a full one.08:51
mdzMithrandir: was the classic boot using a kernel with IDE_DMA_ONLYDISK?08:52
Mithrandirmdz: it's a bit since, so I'm not sure, but we'll be able to measure it once we get the live cd working again.  The measuring code is in the live cd already.08:52
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Mithrandirmdz: but you can look at the graph and see that rcS starts at approximately 69s, while it's 91s+ for the old cd.08:53
mdzMithrandir: yes, very encouraging08:55
ograrobtaylor, for me with ltsp space is a huge issue ...08:55
mdzMithrandir: the DMA change happened in 2.6.15-1.1, so if it was any 2.6.15 kernel, it had that change08:56
mdzBenC: (^^ thanks for expanding the changelog)08:56
Mithrandir-rwx------  1 tfheen tfheen  504168 2005-11-21 13:14 proc_diskstats.log*08:57
robtaylorogra: hmm, well, it'd be less of a pita than using klibc, i think, but added installation complexity and more chance of f*kups, it seems.. *shrug*08:57
Mithrandirthat's pre .15 or not?08:57
KamionKeybuk: is there a good way to get vesafb loaded on boot if you boot with vga=<number>?08:57
MithrandirKamion: I think usplash already does that.08:57
Kamionand probably fbcon, I guess; we use this logic in a few places at the moment:08:57
Kamion                                (modprobe -q vesafb >/dev/null 2>&1 && grep -q . /proc/fb && modprobe -q fbcon >/dev/null 2>&1) || (modprobe -q vga16fb >/dev/null 2>&1 && grep -q . /proc/fb && modprobe -q fbcon >/dev/null 2>&1)08:57
Kamionoh, hmm, maybe usplash is broken then08:58
BenCmdz: no problem :)08:58
Kamion'cos this installation here gets no framebuffer08:58
ograrobtaylor, my target for dapper was to fit on 32MB thin clients ... if my initramfs is already several 10 MB big i wont even get near that08:58
mdzMithrandir:  -- Ben Collins <bcollins@ubuntu.com>  Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:34:38 -050008:58
robtaylorogra: ah, in that case you really do need to start thinking about using ulibc, i'd say08:58
Kamionoh, usplash isn't installed08:58
mdzMithrandir: in which case, the difference relative to Breezy is probably even greater (assuming DMA gets enabled on your hardware)08:58
Mithrandirhaha08:58
ograrobtaylor, yes, but then we are in the same situation as with klibc and could even keep it08:59
Mithrandirmdz: it's a fairly new amd64 rig, so I would expect it is.08:59
robtaylorogra: same situation in what sense?08:59
Mithrandirmdz: might very well have the change in, then.  I've promised Colin to see if I can get him a working live cd tonight, so if so, I'll whip up a few bootcharts as well.08:59
ograrobtaylor, linking against another libc than the default ...08:59
mdzMithrandir: was that a daily CD or one you built?09:00
robtaylorogra: ah yes indeed. but at least you dont have to do the porting work09:00
Kamiondamnit, not going to get to karate tonight :(09:00
=== Kamion fixes base-installer to install usplash
Mithrandirmdz: one I built.09:00
mdzMithrandir: we didn't switch the default kernel until 30 November09:00
mdzor thereabouts09:01
Mithrandirmdz: probably old kernel, then.09:01
Mithrandirmdz: anyway, we'll see if there's a big difference once we have flight 2.  Not much use speculating.09:01
mdzyep09:01
ogramdz, any opinion about the libc stuff for ltsp ? i really fear my low memory target ...09:01
mdzogra: what libc stuff?09:02
mdzogra: for initramfs?09:02
ograif we get rid of klibc09:02
ograyes09:02
mdzgetting rid of klibc won't change the size of the initramfs significantly09:02
ogradoesnt it need glibc then ? 09:02
mdzit already has glibc09:03
ograoh...09:03
ograi thought klibc replaced it in initramfs09:03
Kamionand the initramfs is only 5.6MB with both klibc and glibc09:03
Kamionso stop panicking :)09:03
ograooook09:03
mdzogra: zcat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/initrd.img | cpio -tv | grep libc09:03
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ograoh,ah ok09:04
mdzif your thin client doesn't have enough memory to hold a 10M initramfs plus the kernel, I don't think it would finish booting either09:04
Kamion(ok, 13MB uncompressed)09:05
ograyes, but i feare we'd raise the limit ...09:05
ogra*feared09:05
ograbut dropping klibc will even gain some bytes, so yay :)09:05
mdzkilobytes09:06
ajmitchmorning09:06
Kamioncan people try booting the current daily install CD? it won't install very well, so don't bother running all the way through, but I'd like to know if the boot screen looks right09:06
ograi cant burn it :(09:07
ogracd writing is broken in dapper 09:07
KamionI've already tested in qemu, so no point trying that :)09:07
mjg59Hm.09:08
Kamionit is? I'm burning it from dapper right now09:08
mjg59Have we looked into using resmgr at all?09:08
Kamionthough I use growisofs with my DVD burner, not anything graphical09:09
mjg59ajmitch: I emailed you about Dell laptop stuff - did you get back to me on that, or have I just overlooked the mail? :)09:09
ptloerr..uhh...what encoding should we use when translating the apps (through rosetta, but working offline and then uploading) into native language? utf8?09:09
ajmitchmjg59: I did tell you that my dell got stolen, right? :)09:10
mjg59ajmitch: Oh, crap. Yeah, sorry :)09:10
Kamionptlo: I think that as long as the .po file's Content-Type is correct then it'll be fine09:11
Kamione.g.09:11
Kamion"Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2\n"09:11
Kamionfor base-config's current hr.po09:11
Kamionbut UTF-8 is generally sane for new work09:11
ptloKamion: oh, ok, thanks09:12
mjg59Robot101: Around?09:12
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=== ogra ARGHS very *loud* about http://wiki.ubuntu-fr.org/edubuntu/traduction
HiddenWolfogra, what is wrong?09:16
ograHiddenWolf, they build their own liveCD, its apparently totally broken09:16
ograand i have not enouch manpower ...09:17
Mithrandirogra: so is our, atm. :-P09:17
Mithrandirours, even09:17
ograi wasnt even aware that there is a parallel project called edubuntu-fr09:17
ograthey never ever talked to us 09:17
ogra*grumble*09:17
HiddenWolfogra, sue!09:17
ograi'd love any helping hand :/09:17
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ograwhat a waste :(09:19
dholbachwhy don't you just mail and invite them?09:19
ogradholbach, i just talked to a frenc guy who complained about the brokeness, he'll forward my invitation ...09:19
dholbachcool09:20
ogramy french is quite bad :)09:20
dholbachhaha :)09:20
ajmitchbetter than mine :)09:20
ograhmm, i think its time for official localized edubuntu lists ... i guess i'll introduce a edubuntu-de ml 09:20
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=== Kamion finally goes to fix the cdebconf build failure
Kamionno doubt the buildd admins can stop hating me now, since it's been spinning every half-hour or so for a month :-/09:36
danielsKamion: so, speaking of buildd admins hating people09:36
danielsKamion: you, uh, didn't have any plans to do flight 2 today or tomorrow?09:36
Kamiondaniels: er, yeah09:36
danielshm09:37
danielsKamion: chinstrap:~daniels/tmp/dapper09:37
Kamioner, ok, yeah, please delay that if you could09:37
danielsgladly09:38
KamionFlight 2 is once we have new kernel in (inc. ABI bump) and Mithrandir fixes the live CD and we test it all09:38
danielswhen are you planning to do it, ooi? (not because I'm AWTYing the uploads, but because I figure I should probably generally be on top of these sorts of things)09:38
danielscool09:38
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lucasvohi09:43
lucasvomjg59: I have some problem with acpi09:43
lucasvomjg59: ogra said I should talk to you09:44
mjg59lucasvo: Sure, go ahead09:44
lucasvoFATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device09:44
mjg59Are any other cpufreq modules loaded?09:44
lucasvomjg59: how can I find out?09:45
mjg59lucasvo: What sort of CPU do you have?09:45
lucasvohttp://pastebin.com/46138709:46
lucasvomjg59: amd sempron09:46
lucasvoI think09:46
ogralucasvo, lsmod|grep cpufreq09:46
mjg59lucasvo: Does modprobe powernow-k8 work?09:46
lucasvoogra: pastebin09:46
mjg59lucasvo: sudo modprobe powernow-k8, that is09:46
lucasvoFATAL: Error inserting powernow_k8 (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/powernow-k8.ko): No such device09:46
lucasvono09:46
ograk8 ? isnt that amd64  ? 09:47
mjg59lucasvo: Can you put up dmesg09:47
mjg59ogra: semprons are crippled AMD64s09:47
ograbut 32bit only afaik ...09:47
mjg59ogra: Yes, but they're still k8s09:47
lucasvo[4398568.052000]  powernow-k8: Processor cpuid 681 not supported09:47
ograhmm ... i'd have guessed k7 ... but my guessing is often wrong :)09:48
mjg59lucasvo: Ok. And sudo modprobe powernow-k7 ?09:48
lucasvonothing09:48
mjg59lucasvo: Nothing?09:48
lucasvo[4398690.304000]  atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xaa on isa0060/serio0).09:49
lucasvo[4398690.304000]  atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e02a <keycode>' to make it known.09:49
lucasvo^^^ this is some strange thing I get but nothing else09:49
mjg59lucasvo: Does dmesg show any output?09:49
ogradoes it show up in lsmod ? 09:49
lucasvono doesn't09:49
mjg59lucasvo: Ok, so the problem is that the kernel doesn't know how to support your CPU09:51
mjg59It's not an acpi problem09:51
lucasvohm, so what should I do?09:51
\shinfinity: python-kde3 just uploaded you will get it latest in 1h :) 09:52
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ograhere is a sempron user, but apparently he uses powernow-k8 http://www.komputilo.org/~joostje/linux/maxdata/09:56
ograeven if he reports CPU throttling Doesn't work.09:56
Keybuk(&)09:57
Keybukww09:57
danielsKeybuk: the real question here is, why on earth were you trying to use a dog smiley anyway?09:58
lucasvoogra: hm09:58
Keybukdaniels: wuff ;)09:58
ograhehe09:58
ogrameow ....09:59
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fabbioneslomo: ping??10:06
slomofabbione: pong10:07
fabbioneslomo: did you notice that xine full screen is broken?10:07
slomofabbione: hm, works here in gxine... what are you using?10:08
ograKeybuk, GNOME Space Chart just gets famous in -motu *g*10:08
fabbioneslomo: xine-ui, on a xinerama machine10:09
slomofabbione: i don't have xinerama... could this be the cause? what exactly is broken?10:09
fabbionewell when i swith to full screen i can only see a little bar on a side on one of the screens10:10
fabbionelet me try gxine10:10
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slomofabbione: xine-ui works for me too in fullscreen10:12
fabbioneslomo: ok. it's a xine-ui problem, probably just a missing B-D..10:12
crimsunok, I'll fix those since I touched them both last10:13
fabbionegxine starts and shows full screen but it crashes (known X issue with threaded apps)10:13
Keybukogra: oh?10:13
fabbionecrimsun: let me check what's missing first :)10:13
slomocrimsun: consider updating xine-ui and gxine while you're at it :)10:13
danielsthreaded apps should be fine?10:13
crimsunslomo: yep10:14
slomocrimsun: thanks :)10:14
crimsunslomo: was reading xinehq.de while fabbione was looking :)10:14
fabbionedaniels: check /msg10:14
danielsfabbione: score10:14
ograKeybuk, "<cyberix> Have you seen http://www.netsplit.com/software/gnome-space-chart/" ... i guess he'd like to package it10:15
fabbionecrimsun: meh well. you will need to check for B-D yourself.. compare them with a build log from breezy and build on a clean dapper chroot10:15
fabbionemy system is way too pollutted to do it10:15
crimsunfabbione: np10:15
fabbioneotherwise wait tomorrow :)10:15
fabbionei want to watch a movie and you guys are almost on edge of being slaughtered by me :P10:16
=== fabbione shows his half meter knife
slomofabbione: use mplayer until it's fixed ;)10:16
fabbioneslomo: no! i want menu's and stuff :P10:16
danielsogle?10:16
fabbioneanyway.. later ;)10:16
crimsuncya ;)10:16
fabbionei like xine.. i want xine MOMMY CAN YOU BUY ME XINE? :P10:17
slomobye bye ;)10:17
Keybukogra: heh, it needs finishing first10:18
ograyes, i thought so ... ajmitch already answered him :)10:18
Mithrandirfabbione: that's called "shortsword". :-)10:19
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zygadoes anyone maintain vim around here10:26
zygaI've noticed a small bug with iso->utf-8 transition10:26
jbaileyI think vim doesn't need maintenance, it just occasionally sits in the corner and fights with emacs.10:27
jbaileySort of like my two cats.10:27
Mithrandirjbailey: they also fight with emacs?10:27
lucaszyga: bug or misunderstanding of the doc ? ;)10:27
Mithrandirjbailey: considered just teaching them elisp instead?10:27
zygalucas: bug, 10:27
lucaszyga: url?10:27
jbaileyMithrandir: My cats have a surprisingly good grasp of English, but not of French.  I think I'll focus on continuing teaching them French before I move onto elisp.10:27
zygavim tutorial is encoded with iso encoding and fails to 'notice' that, locale characters are corrupted10:28
zygaI can simply file a bug10:28
lucasthe english tutorial ?10:28
zygalucas: no, the polish one10:29
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Kamionhmm, vim is normally reasonably good at spotting the encoding of a document, unless you forcibly override it10:29
zygaI think they all should be encoded in utf810:29
Mithrandirjbailey: ours don't even understand Norwegian, but they do understand The Stare they get when they're in a place they shouldn't.10:29
zygaKamion: I don't override it, vimtutor on LANG=pl_PL.UTF-8 is corrupted10:29
Kamionit tends to automatically decode stuff in ISO-8859-1 unless it's quite UTF-8-clean10:29
zygaKamion: I've also noticed something stranger10:30
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jbaileyMithrandir: It's not great vocabulary.  Sit, Stay, Come, Food and OFF are generally enough for what we actually need.10:30
Kamionyes, seems so in Debian too10:30
zygathere are /usr/share/vim/vim63/tutor/tutor.$LANG.$ENCODING10:30
jbaileyMithrandir: I think they understand a bit more than that based on occasional reactions, but those are the easiest to measure.10:30
zygaIt seems someone has put the windows encoding for some obscure reason?10:30
Kamionit's possible that the automatic encoding detection relies on having a vimrc10:31
Kamionwhich vimtutor explicitly disables10:31
zygaKamion: maybe tutor is somehow special, there seem to be multiple encodings of many tutorials10:31
zygabut not all 10:31
Kamionah, if it's a Windows encoding it's probably lost10:31
Kamionor actually, it's probably just parsing it as ISO-8859-110:31
zygaKamion: 10:32
zyga/usr/share/vim/vim63/tutor# ls tutor.pl*10:32
zygatutor.pl  tutor.pl.cp125010:32
Kamionno10:32
zygaI'll add .utf-8 and test10:32
Kamiontry ':e ++enc=iso-8859-2'10:32
Kamionin vimtutor10:32
zygak10:32
Kamionlooks OK here; you're right that recoding to UTF-8 would solve it10:32
zygaKamion: looks fine10:32
lucasI can't tell for tutor.pl, but tutor.fr is iso-8859-1 and is correctly displayed in my utf-8 term10:32
lucas(when I vim tutor.fr)10:32
Kamionyes, iso-8859-1 is the default fallback from utf-810:32
Kamionit's only languages whose legacy encoding is ISO-8859-N for N != 1 that have a problem here10:33
zygagaa10:33
zygaI've added .utf-8 and it's even worse10:34
zygathe file is encoded okay but it seems to be re-encoded somehow 10:34
KamionI'll file a Debian bug and see what the maintainers there say10:34
zygaoh, no - It actually ignored the .utf-8 file10:35
zygaI've got the iso file again10:35
Kamionyou need to edit tutor.vim10:35
zygaI've removed .pl and .pl.cp1250 (leaving only .pl.utf-8) and it said it cannot find .pl :/10:35
zygaI don't think it even looks for alternate encodings10:36
Kamionsee tutor.vim10:36
zygalooks way over-complicated10:37
Kamionputting a modeline at the top or bottom of tutor.pl declaring the encoding might be a better solution10:37
Kamioncertainly much less intrusive, probably10:37
Kamion"certainly, probably". time for more coffee10:37
zygaI don't really understand why it needs anything apart .utf8, can vim be compiled without support for other encodings?10:37
Kamiona modeline encoding declaration should do just fine10:38
Kamionminimal change always good10:38
zygahow do I define that?10:38
zygaKamion: removing old crap is also good IMHO but I agree 10:38
zygaKamion: especially since tutor.vim doesn't look complete, I doubt it works for all encodings10:39
zyga(locales)10:39
Kamionyes, vim can be built without UTF-8, I believe10:39
Kamionand historically almost certainly way10:39
Kamionwas10:39
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Kamionthere are still plenty of people using non-UTF-8 locales10:39
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zyga(poor folks)10:40
zygaanyway vim should be able to handle conversion from utf-8 to anything, right?10:40
zyga(so that we don't really need to keep obsolete cp1250-encoded file around 10:40
Kamionmy efforts to do it in a modeline aren't succeeding, but I'll pass the problem upstream10:41
zygaKamion: I'll test the opposite case10:42
Kamiononly if vim is built with multi-byte support AFAIK, which is presumably why vim upstream keep it this way10:42
zygaLANG=pl_PL with utf-8 file10:42
Kamionpatches that are acceptable to upstream are always superior10:42
Kamionas I say, I'll file a Debian bug, don't want to spend too much time on this10:42
zygauhh, it defaulted back to C10:43
zygareally strange10:43
robtaylorhmm, one of these days i should submit a patch so gnome session integration isnt fubard in gvim ;)10:43
zygak, thanks Kamion 10:43
zygaKamion: I'll try to patch tutor.vim to be smart about utf-810:44
zygaif it works I'll ping you and we can attach that to the bug report10:44
Kamionbug filed10:45
Kamiondon't have a bug number yet, see http://bugs.debian.org/vim shortly10:45
Kamiondon't ping me, just mail the bug10:45
zygaKamion: fine10:45
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dholbachhave a nive evening10:52
mdkeciao10:53
jdongbye :)10:53
Kamionzyga: http://bugs.debian.org/34311810:54
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Kamionargh, please somebody make btmakemetafile faster10:59
Kamionoh, no, it's md5sum on *-src-*.iso, sigh10:59
jdongKamion: it's not as bad as trying to pipe a 12GB dump through 7zip11:00
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jdongI really hope you guys don't adopt 7z as the default deb compressor ;-)11:00
lifelessdaniels: during breezy->dapper my touchpad lost its right-hand-side strip for scrolling11:00
lifelessdaniels: was there a transition of some sort where I could have chosen the wrong package ?11:00
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mdkelifeless, i think it's missing the synaptics module, at least on my laptop11:01
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danielslifeless: yes11:09
danielslifeless: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics, instead of xorg-driver-syanptics11:09
lifelessdaniels: thank you11:10
danielsi live to give11:10
lifelessyou do it so well11:10
lifelessexcept11:11
lifelessthat package is not in my packages list 11:11
mdkeme neither11:15
danielsjooniverse11:15
danielsFilename: pool/universe/x/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics_0.14.3+seriouslythistime-0ubuntu1_i386.deb11:15
lifelessoh lovely11:15
lifelessFailed to fetch http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch11:15
lifelessFailed to fetch http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch11:15
danielsthat would be a pretty clear case of SEP11:15
jdongdaniels: how do these version numbers work??11:16
mdkedaniels, universe?11:16
danielsjdong: 0.14.3 -> 0.14.3+revertedto+0.13.6 -> 0.14.3+seriouslythistime11:16
danielsmdke: yes11:16
mvolifeless: hm, au.archive.u.c out of sync? maybe Znarl can help11:16
mdkedaniels, is that going to main?11:16
lifelessmvo: planetmirror is FUCKED.11:16
jdongdaniels: aha11:16
lifelessthey are having some serious shit from what I hear11:17
danielsmdke: yeah, when I fix the seeds (probably post-Flight 2, to prevent Colin losing hair)11:17
danielslifeless: yeah, it's been going on for a while11:17
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mdkedaniels, so can I reopen my bug until then?11:17
HrdwrBoBlifeless: I use mirror.pacific.net.au11:17
danielslifeless: not profitable, *shock*11:17
mdkedaniels, you never know, you might forget ;)11:17
danielsmdke: if it'd make you happy, I guess11:17
lifelessdaniels: *and horror*11:17
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Kamiondaniels: go ahead and commit that seed change, if it's just to supported11:18
mdkedaniels, it might stop people filing more i suppose11:18
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danielsKamion: s/xorg-driver-synaptics/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/ in desktop11:19
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Kamionah, less ideal11:19
danielsKamion: the issue is that people are getting a useless -synaptics installed (still /usr/X11R6011:19
Kamionright11:19
danielsKamion: right.  hence waiting. ;)11:19
mdkedaniels, are there bugs open on that already that I missed?11:21
lathiathrm i thought au.archive.u.c was pointing to uwa.edu.au not pm11:21
lathiatand indeed it is11:21
danielsmdke: #2016611:22
mdkety11:23
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PygiHello11:24
seb128daniels: hi11:29
danielswhat ... the fuck ... is the new usplash artwork11:30
danielsby new, I mean yesterday or something11:30
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danielsseb128: TOP OF THE MORNING TO YOU SIR11:30
seb128:)11:31
daniels(i just dist-upgraded to current dapper and the udev new world order.  that all worked, but I'd broken xserver-xorg-core, so now I'm stuck in the console.  irony.)11:31
seb128daniels: have you read the cairo bug (I Cced you)11:31
danielsseb128: i remember reading it in passing, yeah11:31
seb128daniels: short story, turned that's the speed issue is due to cairo workarounding xorg 6.8.2 but not current one11:32
danielsseb128: it's weird though, I thought we fixed that bug11:33
danielsseb128: but if you just want to force it on for flight 2, that would be good11:34
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danielsseb128: the failure mode of that bug should be that pixmaps get rendered incorrectly, not slowly11:36
danielsso I guess I'm just wondering what's really going on11:36
seb128daniels: right, the rendering issue is fixed, but seems that the work around avoid a slow path too11:37
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seb128daniels: the small example of the bug triggers it without any issue, resizing quickly a basic one colored window takes 100% CPU and with an update like every seconds on an athlon 3000 11:38
danielsseb128: how much longer are you going to be around for?11:39
danielsseb128: the only thing I can think of would be fixed in the new server, but it's pretty implausible11:42
seb128daniels: I'm still around for like an hour today, let me know if I should try the CVS for this bug11:43
seb128not I big deal though, I run a cairo with the workaround forced atm :)11:44
danielsseb128: heh11:44
danielsseb128: i should have a new xserver-xorg-core built in about 10min that should fix your troubles11:44
danielsand also mine (god I hate the console)11:44
seb128cool :)11:45
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