[12:10] <bmonty> elmo: please sync libapache-mod-auth-kerb from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[12:17] <dholbach> good night guys, i'm off to bed
[12:17] <mdke> night dholbach 
[12:19] <daniels> night dholbach
[12:23] <sivang_away> night dholbach 
[03:43] <bmonty> elmo: please sync sam from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:32] <bmonty> elmo: please sync sidplay-libs from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[05:03] <bmonty> elmo: please sync beecrypt from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[05:06] <bmonty> elmo: please sync buddy from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[05:24] <xkahn> ARGH!
[05:24] <xkahn> the cupsys package has some problems with directory ownership.
[05:28] <xkahn> /etc/cups/interfaces and /var/run/cups/printcap are both root owned.
[05:29] <xkahn> they should be owned by lp.lpadmin
[05:30] <ajmitch> elmo: please sync vrms from sid, drop changes
[05:38] <fabbione> morning
[05:39] <ajmitch> hi fabbione 
[05:58] <daniels> morning bella
[06:02] <lathiat> ajmitch: haha
[06:04] <ajmitch> lathiat: ?
[06:22] <lathiat> vrms
[06:22] <lathiat> :)
[06:29] <ajmitch> ah right :)
[06:52] <fabbione> hey dani
[06:53] <fabbione> bah
[07:12] <pitti> Good morning
[07:12] <ajmitch> morning pitti 
[07:54] <freelove> is ogra here?
[07:54] <freelove> hi ogra:)
[08:49] <freelove> is ogra here?
[08:52] <Pygi> maybe yes, maybe not
[08:52] <Pygi> hehe :)
[08:54] <sivang_away> morning all
[08:55] <Pygi> mornin
[09:02] <Pygi> wb sivang
[09:02] <sivang> hey Pygi , had some trouble with my freenode conneciton. Had to reconnect to make it work again
[09:03] <Pygi> hehe :)
[09:25] <rob1> jdub, are you around?
[09:26] <Pygi> seems nobody is around ;)
[09:27] <rob1> dam, I'm chasing the channel contact for #ubuntu, which is him
[09:27] <pitti> Pygi: 'two people are not around -> all people are not around' is not a valid logical conclusion :)
[09:28] <Pygi> logic is not logical :)
[09:30] <sivang> hey pitti :)
[09:30] <Pygi> and btw. the way you put it, it is logical ;) deduction or somethin'
[09:31] <Pygi> on the behalf of few, conclusion on many
[09:31] <pitti> Pygi: hm, I still need to learn the finer weirdnesses of English :)
[09:31] <pitti> Hi sivang 
[09:32] <Pygi> pitti: heh, me too ;)
[09:32] <rob1> umm, does anyone else here have ops in #ubuntu?
[09:34] <crimsun> what's the issue?
[09:34] <rob1> some bans that are set
[09:34] <crimsun> any particular ones?
[09:34] <rob1> for eg. the *.tor.* ban
[09:35] <janimo> crimsun, hey
[09:35] <janimo> I have removed the two other xfcemotu members as they are not motus
[09:35] <rob1> if your trying to stop tor users from accessing #ubuntu, use */tor/* instead, as your also stopping people from toronto from using the chan
[09:35] <crimsun> janimo: hi, ok.
[09:35] <janimo> and the group desc says active members
[09:35] <janimo> I hope it's ok
[09:36] <crimsun> janimo: sure
[09:36] <rob1> freenode has a special agreement with tor, all users will have that cloak
[09:36] <rob1> we are getting a lot of complaints about it
[09:37] <rob1> in fact, the *.tor.* ban is now ineffective with the latest hyperion upgrade
[09:37] <crimsun> fixed.
[09:37] <rob1> thanks crimsun 
[09:38] <rob1> also, *!*@*iam.net.ma
[09:38] <rob1> and this takes out about a million ips: *!*@85.9*
[09:39] <crimsun> the latter seems to host a lot of spambots
[09:39] <crimsun> while I didn't set any of those, I'm not sure of a good way around that
[09:40] <rob1> yeah, they were all done by Seveas 
[09:41] <rob1> its the tor one I'm mainly concerned about
[09:41] <rob1> next time I catch him on here I'll take it up with him, thanks for that crimsun 
[09:42] <crimsun> np
[09:46] <janimo> is there a TB meeting tomorrow? I don't see it on the fridge
[09:47] <infinity> Any votes on whether or not I should temporarily roll back make to a version that makes CDBS work again?
[09:50] <pitti> infinity: sounds like the easiest fix ATM?
[09:51] <pitti> Hey dholbach 
[09:52] <dholbach> hey pitti, hey everybody else! :)
[09:52] <jsgotangco> hey dholbach 
[09:52] <janimo> hey dholbach
[09:52] <jsgotangco> :D
[09:53] <dholbach> hey jerome, jani!
[09:55] <infinity> pitti : Done.
[09:55] <infinity> Yay, obscure version number.
[09:55] <infinity> make_3.80+3.81.b3.3.80-1ubuntu1_source.changes
[10:01] <siretart> hi
[10:02] <Pygi> hi 
[10:04] <ajmitch> hello siretart 
[10:05] <Pygi> welcome sabdfl
[10:06] <sabdfl> moin moin all
[10:06] <ajmitch> hi
[10:06] <viviersf> lo ajmitch 
[10:06] <sabdfl> Riddell: help, my desktop wont update because of kde-guidance
[10:06] <viviersf> and elo sabdfl 
[10:06] <sabdfl> hey hey
[10:07] <Pygi> sabdfl: any specific info you can give us? any errors when trying to update?
[10:09] <infinity> Pygi : It's a known issue, no need to grill the man. :)
[10:09] <lbm> sabdfl: you know "moin" is from the southern denmark? :)
[10:09] <Pygi> infinity: kk :)
[10:10] <viviersf> Riddell, is currently stil afk
[10:10] <sabdfl> lbm: i have a peculiar fondness for denmark, and danes :-)
[10:10] <infinity> sabdfl : Yet more stuff that still needs to be rebuilt for the c2a C++ transition, that's all.
[10:10] <sabdfl> infinity: ok, looks like its down to a single package
[10:11] <infinity> sabdfl : If Riddell doesn't show up and unbreak your desktop soon, I may do it.
[10:11] <lbm> sabdfl: thanks, we like you too ;)
[10:11] <infinity> sabdfl : Two packages.  kde-guidance and python2.4-kde3...
[10:11] <viviersf> heh
[10:11] <lbm> sabdfl: have you visited denmark?
[10:11] <infinity> sabdfl : Well, some others still look a bit goofed too, but those two are causing YOUR issue. :)
[10:15] <spacey> infinity, they also say it in parts of germany
[10:16] <royce> i have an hp zv5000 laptop, using live ubuntu cd most of my hardware works great.  I only have issues with my internal wlan card, it a broadcom chip, any ideas, i've heard about ndis wrapping, but I really am a n00b
[10:16] <spacey> especially the part close to denmark iirc :o) 
[10:16] <Mithrandir> royce: it's documented on the wiki, and this is not a support channel, please ask in #ubuntu
[10:16] <siretart> pitti: re ffmpeg: AFAIR they don't care about sonames, I think they rather recommend linking it statically, because they don't care that much about even API compatibility :(
[10:16] <pitti> siretart: that's retarded
[10:17] <lbm> spacey: they do :)
[10:17] <siretart> pitti: and that a real problem with ffmpeg. marillat is introducing a 'cvs' package of ffmpeg, which he updates with every new mplayer/transcode upload to his archive
[10:17] <siretart> pitti: I know :(
[10:17] <Treenaks> pitti: the ffmpeg perl module depends on the ffmpeg SOURCE tree, instead of the headers, because of this
[10:17] <Treenaks> pitti: (this is also why it isn't packaged)
[10:17] <spacey> lbm, seen some german beer commercial in which they say it as well ;)
[10:18] <pitti> siretart: ok, this fact alone makes it totally unsuitable for main :(
[10:18] <lbm> spacey: it may be from germany, adopted by the close-german danes in the southern denmark :)
[10:18] <spacey> :)
[10:19] <siretart> pitti: sadly, but true
[10:21] <ajmitch> pitti: changing f-spot to use libsqlite3-0 is easy, but preservation of the user data on upgrade isn't so simple - it'll be a little bit before I write up a main inclusion report for you :)
[10:22] <pitti> ajmitch: I feel you pain, sorting out the libdbX.Y mess is similarly horrible...
[10:23] <ajmitch> pitti: changing the source of f-spot was as simple as changing the connection string, but it refuses to start if there's an older photos.db now
[10:23] <pitti> ajmitch: is there a conversion tool at all?
[10:23] <ajmitch> just using sqlite dump
[10:24] <ajmitch> which requires the older lib, etc to be installed
[10:24] <pitti> ouch
[10:24] <Kamion> ajmitch: scrollback on ext2/ext3 resize from last night: resize2fs is part of e2fsprogs and is thus in main
[10:24] <Kamion> I'd generally advise using that instead of ext2resize as I think it's better-maintained
[10:25] <ajmitch> yes, ext2online went quite awhile without any updates
[10:25] <ajmitch> it worked for me, once, but I'm not brave enough to risk vital data to it
[10:28] <nakeee> opss:)
[10:29] <nakeee> is bug  #288948 from debian libc fixed on ubuntu?
[11:02] <dholbach> Diziet: good morning. i built the new yelp (2.13.3), which complains about undefined symbol PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize in /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libdocshell.so (nm -D knows about it) - do you have an idea, where i might look for answers?
[11:02] <dholbach> that should be 2.13.2
[11:08] <infinity> (base)adconrad@cthulhu:/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox$ for i in *.so; do echo "$i:"; nm -D $i | grep PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize; done
[11:08] <infinity> [...] 
[11:08] <infinity> libnspr4.so:
[11:08] <infinity> 000185ed T PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize
[11:08] <infinity> So, you need libnspr4.so
[11:09] <infinity> And, bets are it's linked to it, then resolving to the one in /usr/lib, which DOESN'T have that symbol defined.
[11:09] <infinity> Then goes boom.
[11:10] <dholbach> ok, i'll poke at it... thank you
[11:10] <infinity> Diziet : When are we going to get libnspr4 shipped from firefox instead of mozilla?
[11:26] <carlos> seb128, morning
[11:27] <carlos> seb128, Are you aware of the problem with gnome's menu on dapper?
[11:27] <dholbach> carlos: applications menu?
[11:27] <carlos> dholbach, yes
[11:27] <dholbach> carlos: that's a gamin issie
[11:27] <carlos> it opens but 1 second later disappear
[11:27] <dholbach> carlos: we received the bug report already
[11:27] <carlos> ok
[11:28] <jordi> doko: I wonder if you can join #launchpad for a min
[11:28] <seb128> carlos: gam_server/inotify bog
[11:29] <carlos> and the problem with applications being really slow?
[11:29] <carlos> seems like I don't have 2D/3D acceleration at all
[11:30] <carlos> this reminds me when I was using a framebuffer console when X server was missing my video card driver
[11:33] <doko> jordi: ok
[11:39] <fabbione> hey doko
[11:39] <fabbione> doko: thanks for fixing bash...
[11:39] <fabbione> did you see also the error at line 370 ?
[11:39] <fabbione> doko: sh -n would do
[11:42] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[11:43] <infinity> \sh : Around?
[11:43] <doko> fabbione: yes, yes, I did see it, too llate for the upload
[11:43] <fabbione> doko: ok thanks :)
[11:48] <infinity> \sh / Riddell : Whoever feels like taking ownership of it, the current python-kde3 is FTBFS, which is preventing it from making the C++ transition, which is pretenting kubuntu-desktop from being installable, which is preventing you from having LiveCDs built.
[11:50] <Diziet> infinity: I ought to do that by the end of the week, I think.  If I miss that it'll have to wait until the new year.
[12:04] <pitti> Keybuk: did you ever hear about /dev/fd not existing? it happened to seb128 last week, and at Friday it happened to me, too
[12:05] <Keybuk> fd?
[12:05] <Keybuk> floppy or video?
[12:06] <Kamion> oh, this is nice. screw vga=771, the 1024x768 mode on this laptop is much nicer
[12:07] <Kamion> /dev/fd is normally a symlink to /proc/self/fd, so neither ...
[12:07] <pitti> Keybuk: /dev/fd -> /proc/self/fd
[12:08] <pitti> Kamion: it breaks e. g. bash script which try somethign like "echo bla > &2"
[12:13] <Keybuk> pitti: not existing when?
[12:15] <Keybuk> (ie. do they not exist in the initramfs, in the real root, etc.)
[12:16] <ogra> Keybuk, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051211-1.png see when ldm starts on my lappie :)
[12:16] <pitti> Keybuk: in the real system
[12:16] <pitti> Keybuk: it's there now, it only seems to happen sometimes
[12:17] <pitti> Keybuk: if you don't know that bug yet, I'll watch out for it
[12:17] <Keybuk> pitti: that's screwy, that suggests that /etc/init.d/udev isn't run sometimes
[12:17] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[12:17] <seb128> Keybuk: I had the issue on my desktop friday, cups was not working we tracking it to /dev/fd not beeing present
[12:18] <ogra> cups relies on /dev/fd ? 
[12:18] <Keybuk> grab me next time it happens
[12:18] <pitti> ogra: shell scripts do
[12:18] <pitti> ogra: echo bla >&2, for example
[12:18] <ogra> ah ... 
[12:19] <Keybuk> those don't use /dev/fd unless the shell is *really* badly written
[12:19] <Keybuk> usually it's just for things like <(echo foo)
[12:19] <Keybuk> and those should already use /proc/self/fd (zsh, at least, uses this)
[12:20] <pitti> Keybuk: maye it's from perl
[12:20] <Keybuk> again, that shouldn't use /dev/fd
[12:20] <pitti> Keybuk: I saw the error when installing postgresql-common
[12:20] <pitti> hm, no idea
[12:20] <pitti> it wasn't there
[12:21] <pitti> then I created the symlink, and then the package installed fine
[12:21] <Keybuk> /dev/fd is just for when you want to pass a file descriptor to something as a filename
[12:21] <ogra> lamont, ping ? 
[12:22] <Keybuk> for debugging next time it happens, it's copied over from /lib/udev/devices
[12:22] <Keybuk> so if it doesn't exist, that sounds a lot like the udev init script didn't fun
[12:22] <Keybuk> uh, run
[12:23] <Keybuk> but if udevd is running, and you still don't have /dev/fd, the world is buggered :p
[12:23] <pitti> Keybuk: hm, that means I shouldn't have had /dev/null either?
[12:23] <Keybuk> you shouldn't have /dev/anything :p
[12:23] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, I definively had :) my box was running all the day
[12:24] <Keybuk> right
[12:24] <Keybuk> so get me next time you don't have that link
[12:24] <pitti> yep, will do
[12:25] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/gfxboot/20051212.png <-- new CD bootloader display, if anyone's interested
[12:25] <Kamion> menu items won't be exactly as shown there
[12:26] <hno73> Kamion: look cool :)
[12:26] <hno73> looks even
[12:26] <Keybuk> Kamion: I have an mp3 you could play while those dots go out :p
[12:26] <pitti> wow
[12:26] <Kamion> Keybuk: heh
[12:26] <Kamion> it technically *is* capable of playing sound, but I'd rather avoid overstressing firmware bugs
[12:26] <seb128> "foomatic-gswrapper: gs .... '-sOutputFile=/dev/fd/3' '/dev/fd/0' 3>&1 1>&2' from the cups log, which gives "ESP Ghostscript 815.01: **** Could not open the file /dev/fd/3 ."  (that's from friday)
[12:27] <ogra> Kamion, WOW !
[12:27] <Kamion> uses mod files
[12:27] <lathiat> Kamion: nice
[12:27] <pitti> Kamion: oh, btw, is it possible to add a menu point 'boot from hard disk'? that way you don't need to reboot again if you forgot to take the CD out
[12:27] <lathiat> btw a really cool feature would be a simple 'restore boot laoder' inside the rescue stuff
[12:27] <lathiat> pitti: thatd be cool too
[12:28] <Kamion> pitti: yes, although which hard disk? :-)
[12:28] <Kamion> lathiat: already done for yaboot; should be a simple matter of programming to do for grub now
[12:28] <lathiat> Kamion: the winxp boot cd somehow kicks out to boot normally
[12:28] <sabdfl> Kamion: very slick
[12:28] <lathiat> maybe we can do that?
[12:28] <pitti> Kamion: at least /dev/hda, but it would be ubercool to probe for all available ones :)
[12:28] <Kamion> lathiat: it assumes first hard disk I think
[12:28] <lathiat> hrm
[12:28] <lathiat> well thats better than nothing
[12:28] <Keybuk> http://www.netsplit.com/tmp/ITVon4_Clock_1993.rm
[12:28] <lathiat> since that is often the case
[12:28] <Kamion> but yeah, it's probably possible
[12:28] <Mithrandir> you can just chain to bios 0x80
[12:28] <Kamion> sabdfl: thanks
[12:29] <Keybuk> ^ nearly everyone won't understand that link ... you have to be british and of the right age
[12:30] <Kamion> Keybuk: haha
[12:30] <Kamion> Keybuk: I was also thinking of the Countdown music ...
[12:30] <Keybuk> that'd work too
[12:30] <Kinnison> Keybuk: Oh my, that's really quite sniggerworthy
[12:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: which sometimes works ;-)
[12:31] <Kamion> some fun grub bugs about that
[12:32] <Keybuk> seb128: I'm not disputing whether or not you had that bug ... I just need to see a machine like that to know what's wrong
[12:32] <Keybuk> seb128: for example, that same error could be caused not by udev not making a /dev/fd symlink but by the calling process closing too many file descriptors
[12:34] <seb128> Keybuk: it was to point what uses /dev/fd instead of /proc/self/fd :)
[12:49] <Kamion> pitti: OK, "boot from first hard disk" item added
[12:50] <Kamion> BIOS 0x80, anything else you lose
[12:50] <Kamion> pitti: I don't think I have a way to probe hard disks at that level yet
[12:51] <pitti> Kamion: oh, wow, thanks :) (I didn't expect that to happen that quickly)
[12:52] <pitti> Kamion: that should already cover a very large majority of the cases, I guess
[12:52] <Kamion> yeah. it just got a lot easier fr me to do bootloader stuffbbCD 
[12:52] <Kamion> (argh)
[12:52] <Kamion> yeah. it just got a lot easier for me to do bootloader stuff
[12:53] <Kamion> although gfxboot is in x86 assembly and porting it to powerpc would be highly non-trivial, so that's a sticking point
[01:00] <Keybuk> doesn't the ppc have an x86 emulator in it somewhere to boot PCI cards? ;)
[01:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: I didn't know that, but in any case I doubt user code can get anywhere near it. :)
[01:12] <Keybuk> Kamion: well, you're still pretty close to the BIOS at that point
[01:13] <Kamion> yaboot talks through Open Firmware, which is a fairly thick abstraction layer
[01:32] <pitti> crimsun: just replied to your osh patch; I thought I already did it on friday, but I just pinged you in IRC, as it seems :/
[02:36] <Kamion> pitti: would you care to review gfxboot and gfxboot-theme-ubuntu main inclusion for me?
[02:36] <ogra> and if you're at it, gnome-screensaver would also be nice ... mdz wants it on flight2
[02:37] <jbailey> https://wiki.ubuntu.com//TechnicalBoardAgenda says the next meeting is on 2005-11-29.  Should that say 2005-12-13?
[02:47] <nakee> jbailey, any idea if bug #288948(debian number) in glibc is fixed in ubuntu's glibc?
[02:48] <jbailey> nakee: It's a kernel bug, fixed in 2.6.14, IIRC.
[02:48] <jbailey> Might have been 2.6.15, though.
[02:48] <jbailey> nakee: So bleeding edge Dapper will solve your problem. =)
[03:03] <nakee> jbailey, ok thanks. BTW if you look at the patch attached to the bug you'll see that it's a glibc bug as well  (some fields there are not checked right) but I gave up on glibc people a while ago as long as it stop bothering me:)
[03:04] <jbailey> nakee: The glibc folks disagree.
[03:04] <jbailey> nakee: Apparently trond didn't feel like pushing the point enough, so he tweaked the kernel to provide what glibc expects.
[03:06] <nakee> jbailey, I can understand him, the bug/fix were reported almost 3 years ago if not more:)
[03:06] <jbailey> True.  And for a while we had it patched in Debian glibc.
[03:07] <jbailey> After looking at the patch and looking at the defined kernel interfaces, I agreed with drepper and didn't bother forward porting the patch from 2.3.2 to 2.3.5
[03:07] <jbailey> By that time, trond already had a patch to make the kernel behave correctly.
[03:07] <nakee> in debian, they merged the patch with some weird irix problem, and it didn't solve the problem we had
[03:10] <nakee> jbailey, even if the stracture is a kernel issue the overflow caused IMOH is a glibc bug
[03:10] <jbailey> It's been over a year since I looked at it.
[03:11] <jbailey> Glibc's job is not to check for overflows and such.
[03:11] <jbailey> If you hand it a bad value, it's job is to crash is strange and wonderful ways. =)
[03:12] <sivang> hehe
[03:29] <nakee> sivang, btw how is hebuntu going?
[03:30] <nakee> sivang, or whatever other name it has now:)
[03:30] <nakee> sivang, did you get the mozilla patchs working?
[03:32] <infinity> Riddell : <poke>
[03:32] <Riddell> infinity: hi
[03:33] <infinity> Riddell : Pretty please, with sugar on top, make python-kde3 buildable again. :)
[03:33] <infinity> (It's FTBFS in current dapper, which prevents it from transitioning)
[03:33] <infinity> If you fix that, kde-guidance can be rebuilt, and kubuntu-desktop can be installed.
[03:33] <infinity> And you get livecds!
[03:33] <Riddell> infinity: \sh said he was waiting on a new upstream release which was happening weekend just past
[03:33] <Riddell> \sh: what's the status?
[03:33] <infinity> I hit upstream's webpage and saw no such release.
[03:34] <\sh> Riddell: I'm working on it
[03:34] <infinity> You may have to do a CVS/SVN/whatever pull yourself.
[03:34] <infinity> \sh : Oh, yay.
[03:34] <\sh> infinity: jim said there will be a snapshot soon
[03:34] <infinity> \sh : Flight-2 is happening "any hour/day now", so if you can get an interim snapshot that builds, you can get in on the action.
[03:34] <\sh> infinity: and if there is not a one in the middle of the week, i'm taking the actual release and fix it...well it won't give you any 3.5 stuff
[03:35] <\sh> infinity: k...give me this night :)
[03:35] <\sh> i catched a stupid cold
[03:35] <sivang> \sh: you too?
[03:36] <infinity> I'm off to bed.  If I see that you uploaded python-kde3 while I was asleep, I'll clean up after it and make sure kubuntu-desktop works.
[03:36] <\sh> throat pain and fever...typical stuff
[03:36] <infinity> Cheers, guys.
[03:36] <\sh> infinity: rock thx :)
[03:36] <sivang> \sh: yeah, me too - bad.
[03:40] <janimo> Riddell, ping
[03:41] <janimo> is system-tools-backend going to be used in kubuntu?
[03:41] <\sh> preparing a new pyqt 3.15.1 upload...grrr
[03:42] <janimo> and another: ivman is still a dep of kubuntu-desktop is it still used by kde?
[03:42] <\sh> did anybody fix cdbs and this install target problem?
[03:42] <infinity> \sh : I rolled back make, so yes, it's fixed.
[03:42] <infinity> \sh : Well, "fixed".
[03:42] <Riddell> janimo: we don't use system-tools-backend, knetworkconf includes its own copy of the network backend
[03:43] <\sh> infinity: cool :)
[03:43] <infinity> \sh : The real fix will happen later, but it will work fine for you on an up-to-date system (and the buildds are all up to date)
[03:43] <Riddell> janimo: oh aye, seeds were giving me bother, I'll remove that now
[03:43] <\sh> infinity: i just updated my pbuilder
[03:43] <janimo> Riddell, us s-t-b a moving target or why was it chosen to copy instead of linking to it?
[03:45] <Riddell> janimo: I suspect when knetworkconf started there was no separate system-tools-backend package from upstream
[03:45] <Riddell> I should talk to the author about that
[03:45] <janimo> ok, thanks
[04:01] <doko> pitti: adding /etc/xpdf/xpdfrc to popple-utils would mean a conflict to xpdf?
[04:02] <pitti> doko: depends
[04:02] <pitti> doko: poppler-utils already conflicts to xpdf-utils
[04:02] <pitti> so if xpdf-utils ships that conffile, then we would already have the conflict
[04:02] <pitti> if it's shipped by -common, though...
[04:02] <pitti> doko: would that conffile actually make sense for poppler-utils?
[04:02] <pitti> i. e. does it actually use it?
[04:04] <doko> I don't know, didn't look
[04:05] <pitti> doko: if p-u doesn't use the conffile, then I'd just remove the symlink from cups
[04:08] <doko> pitti: I would have to grep the sources ;-)
[04:08] <tseng> pitti: have you looked at avahi for main inclusion?
[04:09] <tseng> pitti: sorry no rush, just curious
[04:10] <pitti> tseng: hrm, still busy with security updates
[04:10] <tseng> pitti: id rather have those :) thanks.
[04:14] <carlos> vuntz, hi, are you around?
[04:14] <vuntz> hi carlos
[04:24] <ogra> hey lamont__ 
[04:25] <ogra> any news about edubuntu-live ? 
[04:26] <\sh> Riddell: first package up...sip4 4.3.2
[04:31] <Riddell> \sh: you rock :)
[04:31] <\sh> well..now for a new version of pyqt3
[04:32] <Gagatan> regarding pyqt.. any news about pyqt4 yet?
[04:32] <Gagatan> from a developer/user point of view.. not maintainer
[04:32] <\sh> Gagatan: that is pyqt-ml...not ubuntu-devel :)
[04:33] <Gagatan> \sh: was afraid you'd say so.. ;) it was worth a shot ;)
[04:33] <\sh> Gagatan: but thinking about an crippeled pykde implementation (not ready for 3.5) I don't wanna think about pyqt4
[04:34] <\sh> Gagatan: so it makes me cry
[04:34] <\sh> *sniff* thanks
[04:35] <ogra> Gagatan, you really want him to get a sore nose ? 
[04:35] <\sh> ogra: i already have one....
[04:36] <ogra> (a real soft one) :)
[04:36] <Gagatan> ogra: its with moisturiser and stuff :)
[04:36] <ogra> lol
[04:36] <Gagatan> or however its spelled 
[04:37] <\sh> ogra: well...thinking about my cold...and you are caring about suse :) I should come to you..I need someone who takes care about me as well :)
[04:37] <ogra> argh ...
[04:37] <\sh> *cough* 
[04:37] <ogra> i already am near the edge of my capacity ...
[04:38] <zakame> ogra: awww
[04:38] <ogra> 4h sleep max ...
[04:38] <ogra> then i have to rush and cook tea for her, get the pills etc ...
[04:38] <\sh> ogra: well for me only a grog
[04:38] <ogra> but it seems to get better 
[04:38] <\sh> hey mvo 
[04:41] <\sh> mvo: I had to postpone the call to hartmut...my voice is a bit croaky
[04:41] <mvo> \sh: no problem
[04:43] <\sh> i'm wondering where my upload is...
[04:44] <ogra> gone to unstable ? 
[04:44] <\sh> no
[04:44] <\sh> woooow
[04:44] <\sh> you actually don't know who send me an email
[04:44] <ogra> tell us
[04:46] <jsgotangco> hello
[04:51] <lamont__> ogra: edubuntu livecd fs images have been building just fine since the 2nd run on dec 9
[04:52] <ogra> oh cool !!!
[04:52] <lamont__> ==> new target
[04:52] <ogra> lamont__, thanks a big lot ...
[04:52] <Mithrandir> they don't work, partly due to a kernel bug.
[04:53] <Mithrandir> I have spent some time investigating it today, there's a certain amount of insanity needed to fix it.
[04:53] <lamont__> Mithrandir: "they"?
[04:53] <Seveas> there's insanity enough in here :)
[04:53] <Mithrandir> lamont__: they as in "the live cds"
[04:54] <lamont__> edubuntu, or everything?
[04:54] <Mithrandir> lamont__: everything.  The kernel's busted wrt cloop images and devmapper snapshots.
[04:54] <Mithrandir> lamont__: benc has a fix in the pipeline/to be uploaded, though.
[04:58] <\sh> Riddell: python-qt3 3.15.1 will hit katie soon
[04:59] <lamont__> seb128: .libs/gatomic.o: In function `IA__g_atomic_int_exchange_and_add':/build/buildd/glib2.0-2.9.1/build-tree/glib-2.9.1-deb/glib/gatomic.c:417: undefined reference to `__sync_fetch_and_add'
[04:59] <lamont__> what's that mean?  (ia64)
[05:00] <\sh> mvo: btw...debtags raises errors...
[05:01] <seb128> lamont__: that ia64 sucks maybe? :p
[05:03] <lamont__> seb128: it sucks, but not that way.
[05:04] <seb128> lamont__: I don't really have an idea on this issue in fact :)
[05:04] <lamont__> seb128: I kinda figured it was arch-specific code that was just missing for ia64
[05:04] <lamont__> I'll play with it sometime soonish
[05:05] <lamont__> glib2.0 and vbetool seem to be all that's breaking ubuntu-desktop installability on ia64 atm
[05:05] <silbs> jsgotangco: ping
[05:05] <jsgotangco> silbs: hi there
[05:06] <mvo> \sh: should be fixed with the upload from today
[05:08] <\sh> mvo: k
[05:08] <\sh> and I found a really serious bug in python-qt3
[05:09] <\sh> but I hope I will fix it now
[05:10] <seb128> lamont__: what version of gcc do you have on ia64? current archive one?
[05:10] <\sh> brb
[05:11] <seb128> lamont__: 
 seb128: could also be a glibc version issue, I guess. I don't actually know where these __sync... functions live
 seb128: the patch to change __sync_..._si to __sync_... came from suse
[05:13] <seb128> lamont__: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=321229
[05:13] <seb128> lamont__: I guess the issue is this patch: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/attachment.cgi?id=54637&action=view
[05:19] <Kamion> ogra: as Mithrandir says ... but I'll turn Edubuntu live on once that's all fixed
[05:20] <ogra> great 
[05:20] <ogra> i'm eager to see it :)
[05:30] <mdz> ogra: your latest ldm branch seems to include an unrelated change adding 'quiet splash' to the pxelinux config
[05:30] <ogra> is that bad ? since we wanted to enable it anyway 
[05:31] <mdz> ogra: I have no problem with the change, but it's confusing to mix it with the ldm changes, and splash won't have an effect until usplash is installed
[05:31] <ogra> yes, it would belong into the fixes branch, but i had no such branch at that time ...
[05:31] <Kamion> pitti: did you see my note about gfxboot and gfxboot-theme-ubuntu? sorry to rush, but I'd like to get it in for Flight 2 (now just blocked by kernel and casper) if possible for widespread testing
[05:31] <ogra> and found cosmetiacl stuff would fit in there
[05:32] <pitti> Kamion: I saw the wiki diff, yes
[05:32] <ogra> mdz, i wont do it again, that what the fixes branch is for now ...
[05:33] <jsgotangco> mdke: hello
[05:33] <mdke> hi jerome :)
[05:33] <\sh> jesus fixed
[05:34] <ogra> mdz, also most of peres fixes have no effect at all with our xorg ...
[05:34] <ogra> the preseeding just doesnt get accepted
[05:34] <\sh> I wonder why nobody including me saw that python2.4-qt3-gl was missing 
[05:36] <pitti> Kamion: just promote it now, and I process the report formally tomorrow; it does not have any security history, and if you are fine with the packaging etc., then it's certainly ok
[05:36] <mdz> ogra: merged
[05:36] <ogra> YAY !
[05:36] <pitti> Kamion: I'll try to do it today, but I'm not sure whether I'll manage that
[05:36] <Kamion> pitti: ok, I just didn't want to make that decision myself since as author of the latter I wasn't qualified
[05:36] <Kamion> thanks
[05:36] <mdke> mdz, got 2 minutes to discuss the ubuntu-docs possible update? some problems with it...
[05:37] <Kamion> but yes, I think security issues are rather implausible by nature
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: erm, I'd rather say as author of that package you are :)
[05:37] <mdz> ogra: I don't have time to test it; I'm uploading 0.61
[05:37] <mdz> ogra: if you need to make uploads while I'm away, please create a dapper branch
[05:37] <Kamion> pitti: perhaps "disqualified" is a better word
[05:37] <ogra> mdz, fine, will test and report back ...
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: right, there is hardly some user input, and at the boot level there is not much room for exploits
[05:37] <ogra> mdz, will do
[05:37] <mdz> mdke: ok, go ahead
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: or, rather, many possibilities to avoid exploits
[05:38] <Kamion> hm, possibly gfxboot-theme-ubuntu should be Architecture: amd64, i386
[05:38] <mdke> mdz, cool. It works good afaics, but the introduction of a number of new translations has meant that the debdiff is absolutely enormous. This is partly because a lot of part-done translations are included, with both translated and english text...
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: it isn't arch:all?
[05:38] <Kamion> pitti: it is at the moment, but it depends on gfxboot which is only available on amd64/i386, so I create an uninstallable on powerpc the way it is now
[05:38] <Kamion> I'll fix that
[05:38] <mdz> mdke: I understand
[05:39] <mdz> Kamion: will you still be able to release flight 2 this week given thurs/fri?
[05:39] <mdke> mdz, to keep the debdiff manageable it might be possible to include just "common" or completed translations, but at the same time it might be a shame that others efforts don't go in.. any ideas?
[05:40] <Kamion> mdz: I sincerely hope and believe that it will be long past come Thursday
[05:40] <Kamion> the kernel upload will happen in a few hours, I'm told
[05:40] <hunger_> yahoo, with the latest usplash update my system boots again:-)
[05:40] <Kamion> then it should be straightforward to fix casper (I think Mithrandir has this mostly done)
[05:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: if we kick stuff through quickly this evening with the new kernel, will you be able to sync down a live CD for casper testing/upload?
[05:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: as in, tonight or tomorrow?
[05:41] <Mithrandir> (UTC)
[05:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: tonight
[05:42] <Mithrandir> yes, I could do that.
[05:42] <Kamion> thanks
[05:46] <jsgotangco> good night
[05:46] <ogra> night jsgotangco 
[05:53] <ogra> mdz, you didnt merge http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/fixes/ ?
[05:53] <ogra> (its a one line change that unbreaks the edubuntu CD)
[05:54] <mdz> ogra: I only read the subject of your mail
[05:54] <ogra> ah...
[05:54] <mdz> ogra: will have a look now
[05:55] <ogra> the default distro is still breezy in ltsp-build-client ... doesnt work if you run it from CD :)
[05:56] <mdz> ogra: merged, uploaded, pushed
[05:56] <ogra> thanks :)
[05:56] <ogra> i wont bother you anymore then :)
[05:57] <mdz> and permissions fixed on rookery as a bonus
[05:57] <ogra> heh
[05:57] <ogra> what was wrong there ? 
[06:00] <mdz> ogra: https://launchpad.net/products/bzr/+bug/4800
[06:01] <ogra> ah
[06:02] <ogra> i dont use james bond premissions locally, thats why i never noticed ;)
[06:02] <mdke> mdz, so what do you think about this update?
[06:05] <mdz> mdke: it sounds OK, though I would like to see the diff
[06:06] <mdke> mdz, of course, i just wanted to make sure you were prepared to read it... it's 8.5MB long...
[06:06] <mdke> mdz, if you are, when its finalised I'll ping you. If not, we can work something else out
[06:07] <mdz> mdke: I'll sort it out
[06:07] <mdke> great
[06:07] <mdke> mdz, thanks!
[06:08] <mdz> mdke: has it already been  built on breezy and tested on breezy?
[06:08] <mdz> mdke: was it tested in multiple locales_?
[06:08] <mdke> mdz, yes. I tested in my locale and in IT, i'll do a few more later
[06:09] <mdke> need to test "ast" ;)
[06:21] <\sh> hmm..when I'm introducing a new binary package build from source...does elmo have to NEW it? 
[06:21] <mdke> the language selector on breezy is only showing my installed locales, and doesn't give me a list of new languages I can add... anyone reproducing?
[06:23] <ogra> \sh, yup
[06:23] <mdke> nm
[06:24] <\sh> ogra: thx
[06:27] <seb128> pitti: hum, cups eats 100% of CPU looping on "write(1, ptrace: umoven: Input/output error 0x7c514d6, 4498984)            = -1 ENOSPC (No space left on device)" if /var is used at 100%
[06:27] <mvo> mdke: is you package list up-to-date?
[06:28] <mvo> mdke: usually a apt-get update fixes it
[06:29] <mdke> mvo, yeah it's fixed, sorry :(
[06:29] <mvo> mdke: no worries
[06:36] <\sh> elmo: please sync glabels , jabberoo , istanbul from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes, thx
[06:38] <\sh> elmo: and please move python2.4-qt3-gl from NEW (it was missing from the former sources and it's important for flight-2) thx again
[06:38] <\sh> infinity: python-kde3 just builds...will upload it in a few
[06:38] <\sh> bbl...
[06:45] <pitti> lamont: do you know why curl_7.12.3-2ubuntu3.4_source.changes (hoary-security) doesn't build?
[06:46] <lamont__> Built successfully
[06:46] <lamont__> Rejected: libcurl2-dev_7.11.2-12ubuntu3.2_ia64.deb: old version
[06:46] <lamont__> +(1:7.11.2-12ubuntu3.2) in hoary-security >= new version (1:7.11.2-12ubuntu3.2)
[06:46] <lamont__> +targeted at hoary-security.
[06:46] <lamont__> note that the version of libcurl2 is hardcoded in debian/rules.  kthxbye
[06:46] <lamont__> must be manually bumped
[06:46] <pitti> lamont__: argh, I bet that's it
[06:47] <pitti> lamont__: thanks
[06:48] <pitti> that's soo retarted...
[06:49] <eruin> looks like there's something wrong with http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/source/Sources.gz - gzip exits with errors according to apt
[06:50] <ogra> works here
[06:50] <eruin> lovely.
[06:52] <mdke> does anyone have any idea why the default homepage on firefox might be a different address depending on which language the user selects when logging in?
[06:52] <Hieronymus> mdke: yes
[06:52] <ogra> mdke, thats a change from  breezy afaik
[06:53] <mdke> what's going on?
[06:53] <ogra> mdke, there is a wikipage anywhere describing it
[06:53] <mdke> ogra, yeah but not describing what I'm seeing...
[06:53] <ogra> hmm
[06:53] <mdke> english and french have the about ubuntu page. italian has google start
[06:54] <mdke> maybe something in the firefox localised package?
[06:55] <mdke> ogra, what is german?
[06:56] <mdke> brb, trying a couple more languages
[06:56] <ogra> mdke, hmm, i switched it to about blank ... 
[06:56] <ogra> but i think i remember it was the mozilla page 
[06:57] <ogra> mdke, if i remove about:blank its the ubuntu page as well
[06:58] <siretart> pitti: apropos retarted stuff: I just had another look at ffmpeg. ffmpeg in debian/main ist a static lib only. Marillat therefore has 'cvs' versions of ffmpeg, which DO introduce a proper soname
[07:01] <mdke> ogra, yeah it works on all languages I've tried, except italian, weird :)
[07:01] <mdke> gnome fonts are screwed in czech too ;)
[07:04] <mdke> mdz, ok the package is tested on german, czech, english, italian and french with a new user on Breezy and works fine (subject to an unrelated bug with Italian firefox having the wrong homepage). Uber-debdiff is at http://doc.ubuntu.com/debs/breezy-updates . Let me know if you need anything else, i'll be online later.
[07:04] <crispin_> Keybuk: ping ?
[07:06] <Keybuk> crimsun: yup?
[07:06] <crispin> I'm the reporter of that 'unbootable system' bug, and have my machine back in its unbootable state
[07:07] <Keybuk> *nods*
[07:07] <Keybuk> give me five minutes, just dealing with something else, and I can give you my full attention
[07:07] <crispin> ok
[07:07] <Keybuk> can you get that machine to the point it's sitting at "ALERT! The sky fell on my head!" or whatever it said
[07:07] <Keybuk> and then join #ubuntu-boot
[07:08] <crispin> yep, will do
[07:11] <BenC> Keybuk: hey!
[07:11] <BenC> Keybuk: is there a problem with us having ide-core built-in?
[07:16] <ogra> mdz, ldm works fine ...
[07:17] <mdz> good
[07:21] <pitti> lamont: are you still responsible for building livefs images?
[07:21] <pitti> mdz sent me a log with a failing cupsys-driver-gimpprint, but it works fine for me
[07:23] <dholbach> mvo: have fun
[07:24] <lamont__> pitti: I build em, yes
[07:24] <lamont__> but I need more detail on what you're asking...
[07:24] <pitti> lamont__: do you still get that error?
[07:25] <pitti> lamont__: cupsys-driver-gimpprint was uninstallable on that log (failed on configure)
[07:25] <lamont__> architecture, which livefs, build error or runtime? etc
[07:26] <pitti> lamont__: i386, terranova, Thu,  8 Dec 2005
[07:26] <pitti> lamont__: build time
[07:26] <lamont__> ubuntu?
[07:27] <lamont__> vs {k,ed}ubuntu?
[07:27] <pitti> yes
[07:33] <mdz> mdke: ok, looks good, ping me or Kamion for final approval once it's uploaded
[07:33] <ogra> mdz, btw, latest bootchart from my laptop s client: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/student-control-panel_shot.png
[07:33] <ogra> oops, wrong paste
[07:33] <ogra> mdz, http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051211-1.png
[07:33] <ogra> look when ldm starts :)
[07:34] <mdz> ogra: that looks very strange
[07:34] <mdz> why does that chvt run forever?
[07:34] <ogra> what? booting in 20seconds ? 
[07:35] <mdz> that chart should end at about 25 seconds
[07:35] <mdz> but instead it's 1:34
[07:35] <ogra> bootchart is very slow ... no idea it takes about 2 minutes on the thin client to get the login, but the chart stops earlier there
[07:35] <ogra> (console login that is)
[07:36] <ogra> mdz, i rather think its a problem with bootchart than chvt
[07:36] <mdz> ogra: it doesn't look that way to me
[07:37] <ogra> hmm
[07:37] <mdz> bootchart is clearly still sampling during that time
[07:37] <mdz> you can see the changes in Xorg
[07:37] <ogra> right ...
[07:38] <ogra> i'll investigate ... but the booting is incredible fast on this laptop ...
[07:38] <Keybuk> bootchart is stopped by the zzz-bootchart-stop script
[07:38] <ogra> yes
[07:38] <mdz> Mithrandir: feel free to make uploads to dapper from your casper branch while I'm away; just be sure to sort out the bzr situation so that I can merge when I return
[07:38] <Keybuk> that's not being run ... because that chvt is running
[07:39] <Keybuk> you can see the slight space that it's own parent script is run at the end
[07:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: sure.  Worst-case, I'll just replay the revisions.
[07:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'd like to let Kamion release flight 2 first.
[07:39] <Kamion> (doing install CD testing with gfxboot nowish)
[07:39] <mdz> Mithrandir: agreed
[07:40] <ogra> so its a prob with console-screen ? hmmm
[07:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: rock, that'll unblock a couple of things for me. :-)
[07:40] <Kamion> although of course I need to switch to the new kernel anyhow, but I want to catch any other trailing stuff
[07:40] <Kamion> I have a nagging feeling that I've forgotten one piece of the gfxboot deployment work, but never mind ...
[07:41] <tseng> Kamion: do i need to do anything to test beyond installing the packages?
[07:41] <ogra> infinity, the new usplash leaves the d of failed on the screen, the status (ok/failed) is to far to the right it seems
[07:41] <Kamion> tseng: for what?
[07:41] <tseng> Kamion: gfxboot
[07:42] <Kamion> tseng: our gfxboot stuff only supports syslinux at the moment, so it's only useful for install CDs right now
[07:42] <Kamion> (and live CDs)
[07:42] <Kamion> there's not much point installing it on a normal system unless you want to grab the grub patches from SuSE and try those out
[07:42] <Kamion> I'm very strongly inclined to avoid those for dapper, though
[07:43] <ogra> mdz, i guess chvt hangs in the unicode_start/stop calls, there is no locale set in the thin client env ...
[07:43] <Kamion> I suspect gfxboot-theme-ubuntu doesn't fully handle the normal-boot/non-syslinux case anyway
[07:43] <mdz> I see no reason why a lack of locale would cause it to hang
[07:43] <Kamion> chvt surely doesn't call unicode_{start,stop} itself anyway
[07:43] <ogra> because console-screen.sh tries to set UTF-8 locales ? 
[07:43] <Kamion> it just changes the vt
[07:44] <mdz> ogra: strace would probably be enlightening
[07:44] <ogra> yup
[07:45] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: gnrr, udevinfo -q name -p /block/cloop0 claims it doesn't know anything about that device. :-/
[07:45] <Keybuk> heh
[07:45] <Keybuk> probably doesn't
[07:45] <Keybuk> udev isn't a device database
[07:45] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: did in breezy.
[07:45] <Keybuk> yeah, udev change upstream
[07:46] <Keybuk> the db only contains information on things there are rules for
[07:46] <Mithrandir> hmkay.
[07:46] <Mithrandir> so.. just look for /dev/cloop0, then?
[07:46] <Keybuk> yeah, if udev doesn't know about it, look for the name you expected
[07:46] <Keybuk> BenC: could you come back into #ubuntu-boot please
[07:47] <ogra> oh, cht isnt from console-screen ....
[07:47] <ogra> *chvt
[07:47] <mdz> nope
[07:47] <Kamion> oh, I forgot splash.pcx, I knew there was something
[07:48] <mdke> mdz, thanks. I'd upload it now, if I knew how :D
[07:48] <Kamion> yay for YA splash image format
[07:50] <ogra> so does DCC support usplash ?  *grin*
[07:50] <seb128> elmo: please sync gtk+2.0 from Debian incoming
[07:51] <tseng> ogra: look at some more init.d headers
[07:51] <mdz> sabdfl,mjg59,Keybuk: don't forget about TB tomorrow; I won't be there
[07:51] <ogra> tseng, ah, thanks :)
[07:51] <ogra> tseng, i thought it referred to the usplash script :)
[07:52] <Keybuk> mdz: would you like me to drive in your place?
[07:52] <mjg59> mdz: Ok
[07:52] <mdz> Keybuk: yes
[08:06] <mdke> Diziet, do you know if https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation is working?
[08:11] <ogra> hmm, putting strace in the uspalsh script in front of the chvt seems not to work ...
[08:11] <ogra> but running it manually produces a strace that complains about missing locales
[08:11] <\sh> damn..pykde still compiling
[08:14] <mjg59> seb128: What do I need to do to make sure an icon-theme.cache gets updated when I install new icons?
[08:15] <mjg59> Just gtk-update-icon-cache in the postinst?
[08:16] <seb128> mjg59: we don't use the icon cache out of some themes because the implementation is a crapy one
[08:16] <mjg59> seb128: Currently, the situation is that I install new icons and my package can't find them
[08:16] <seb128> you have to update the mtime of the directory every time a package install an icon
[08:16] <seb128> or the cache masks silently the icon
[08:17] <seb128> which make apps crash and other funny stuff
[08:17] <mjg59> And how should that be done?
[08:17] <mdke> Diziet, if it is, it struck me that it would rock pretty hard to actually ship some translated html
[08:17] <seb128> patch every single package existing to update the mtime
[08:17] <seb128> or don't make an icon cache
[08:17] <seb128> we picked the second one, we don't make an icon cache for hicolor
[08:18] <seb128> if you have one the easiest way is probably to rm the file
[08:22] <mjg59> seb128: Same in Debian?
[08:22] <mjg59> I'm just wondering where I got this one from now
[08:23] <seb128> yep
[08:23] <mjg59> Ok
[08:26] <ogra> mdz, seems it was a bug in the old usplash package, it doesnt happen with the upgraded one 
[08:26] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png
[08:26] <ogra> mdz, ^^
[08:26] <mdz> Mithrandir: what is the purpose of findcommandinroot in your casper-reconfigure?
[08:26] <mdz> Mithrandir: does the chroot(1) in initramfs not search $PATH?
[08:26] <ogra> compared to http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051211-1.png
[08:26] <mdz> ogra: what was the bug?
[08:27] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, it doesn't search path
[08:27] <mdz> Mithrandir: I'd be inclined to treat that as a bug, since it should be trivial to fix in busybox/klibc/whatever
[08:27] <ogra> mdz, no idea, but the bootchart was from yesterday, i had the old usplash ... it doesnt happen at all with the new one ... do you want me to roll back to the old package ? 
[08:28] <Mithrandir> mdz: sure, that'd be nice.
[08:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that's really odd, because busybox chroot uses execvp()
[08:28] <mdz> Kamion: klibc includes a chroot command, too
[08:29] <Kamion> ... which uses execve()
[08:29] <Mithrandir> yeah, it might be the klibc chroot command I'm calling.
[08:29] <Kamion> there we go, smoking gun
[08:29] <Kamion> we should just use the busybox one
[08:29] <Mithrandir> if we fix that, I'd be very happy
[08:29] <Kamion> (since klibc is probably going away anyway)
[08:30] <mjg59> mdz: Did you have any joy in finding the patch that broke suspend?
[08:30] <mdz> ogra: it could just as easily be a race or something; I know of no such bug being fixed in usplash, there is nothing which looks relevant in changelog, and it would be very odd in the first place for usplash to cause chvt to hang somehow
[08:31] <Kamion> Mithrandir: chroot is disabled in the busybox initramfs config; shall I enable it?
[08:31] <ogra> mdz, i'll keep an eye on it, but with five boots i did now it didnt happen
[08:31] <mdz> mjg59: none whatsoever; I got as far as a git checkout by week's end
[08:31] <mjg59> mdz: Ok
[08:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: please do
[08:31] <mjg59> mdz: I don't have time to track that down now, I'm afraid
[08:31] <mdz> Kamion: klibc is going away entirely, or just from our initramfs?
[08:31] <mjg59> But there's been another bug filed (another Thinkpad user, no idea if it's linked)
[08:31] <mdz> mjg59: me either; I leave town tomorrow
[08:31] <Mithrandir> mdz: http://err.no/tmp/dapper-20051212-1.png
[08:32] <mdz> Mithrandir: that's the existing livecd, right?
[08:32] <Mithrandir> bootchart from simplifiedlivecd
[08:33] <mdz> oh, interesting
[08:33] <mdz> do you have a standard livecd bootchart from the same machine for comparison?
[08:33] <mdz> 40 seconds for adduser seems way excessive
[08:33] <Mithrandir> loading perl takes a while
[08:34] <Mithrandir> as well as libc6, etc, etc.
[08:34] <Mithrandir> I'll get you a chart, wait a little
[08:34] <mjg59> Mithrandir: Hmm. X is starting after 155 seconds?
[08:34] <mdz> init.d/hplip calls dpkg-statoverride? freakish
[08:34] <Mithrandir> mjg59: sounds about right.
[08:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: yes, it's crack
[08:35] <Mithrandir> mdz: note that I got distracted by IRC and such so the boot chart is a bit longer than it should be.
[08:35] <Mithrandir> but since there's no interactivity, it doesn't really matter
[08:35] <Kamion> Mithrandir: oh, hmm, you would have to use 'busybox chroot' explicitly though; we don't ship the symlinks
[08:36] <Mithrandir> Kamion: more or less anything to get rid of the evil hacks I've added so far
[08:37] <Kamion> mdz: from our initramfs, as I understand it; we currently often/always (?) include glibc for things like raid/lvm that haven't been ported to klibc yet, and Scott/Jeff seemed to be leaning towards "oh, let's just use glibc"
[08:37] <ogra> hmm, that might be odd for thin client memory usage
[08:38] <Keybuk> right
[08:38] <Keybuk> porting to klibc is annoyingly hard for not-a-huge benefit
[08:38] <Keybuk> if every app in there was klibc, it would be a benefit
[08:38] <Keybuk> but as soon as one isn't, it's actually a deficit
[08:41] <Kamion> oh god, I so want to kill base-config
[08:41] <Kamion> Mithrandir: done
[08:41] <Mithrandir> Kamion: \o/
[08:42] <mdz> Kamion: meaning "let's just use coreutils/util-linux/etc."?
[08:42] <mdz> Kamion: or "let's just use busybox linked with glibc"?
[08:43] <Kamion> mdz: I don't think it matters much, although busybox would keep the initramfs size down
[08:43] <Kamion> the cost of klibc is AIUI much higher than the cost of busybox right now
[08:43] <mdz> really?
[08:43] <Kamion> we could continue to use klibc-utils built against glibc
[08:43] <Kamion> cost as in amount of work we have to do to support it
[08:43] <mdz> klibc is like 250k, lib + utils
[08:44] <Kamion> not as in space
[08:44] <mdz> oh, the PITA cost
[08:45] <Kamion> meh, broken locale configuration in today's installer, I guess that isn't surprising
[08:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: http://err.no/tmp/dapper-classic-livecd.png is the classic livecd.
[08:45] <Mithrandir> mdz: note that the kernel versions are not the same here
[08:45] <Mithrandir> (the header of the last of them lies)
[08:45] <Kamion> I think I'm going to have to install a language pack as part of the base system
[08:46] <robtaylor> Kamion: I guess ulibc isn't a win here?
[08:46] <mdz> Mithrandir: what causes it to lie?
[08:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: that I didn't have a header file from the run, so I just stuck the one from the previous boot on top of it. :-P
[08:47] <Mithrandir> so, not a bug, just me being lazy.
[08:47] <Kamion> robtaylor: I imagine it has pretty much the same detriments as klibc, i.e. more work for no gain unless you convert everything
[08:47] <Kamion> robtaylor: there's nothing wrong with klibc itself, it's just worthless unless you convert everything to use it
[08:47] <Mithrandir> mdz: note that my machine has 2GB of ram, so anything read in generally won't be thrown out again.
[08:47] <robtaylor> Kamion: well last i saw it was pretty near to a drop in replacement apart from really obscure stuff
[08:48] <Kamion> and that either involves multiple build passes or else multiple libcs running on the real system
[08:48] <robtaylor> Kamion: like on scratchbox, you can actually make a debian distro against ulibc
[08:48] <Kamion> the former risks introducing subtle bugs, and the latter just sucks
[08:48] <Kamion> robtaylor: er, sure, but we're not building the whole of Ubuntu against uclibc
[08:48] <robtaylor> Kamion: thats true
[08:49] <jbailey> Kamion: I'm lagging quite a lot since I'm on a phone call, but part of the idea has been that busybox ought to be able to be removed for the initramfs.
[08:50] <robtaylor> Kamion: heh, i know,just using that as an example of its completeness, but you're right, its not a win here as space isn't the primary concern and you end up with having multiple build passes..
[08:51] <Mithrandir> mdz: hmm, when looking at the second graph, it's just until the pivot_root.. :-/  I thought I had a full one.
[08:52] <mdz> Mithrandir: was the classic boot using a kernel with IDE_DMA_ONLYDISK?
[08:52] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's a bit since, so I'm not sure, but we'll be able to measure it once we get the live cd working again.  The measuring code is in the live cd already.
[08:53] <Mithrandir> mdz: but you can look at the graph and see that rcS starts at approximately 69s, while it's 91s+ for the old cd.
[08:55] <mdz> Mithrandir: yes, very encouraging
[08:55] <ogra> robtaylor, for me with ltsp space is a huge issue ...
[08:56] <mdz> Mithrandir: the DMA change happened in 2.6.15-1.1, so if it was any 2.6.15 kernel, it had that change
[08:56] <mdz> BenC: (^^ thanks for expanding the changelog)
[08:57] <Mithrandir> -rwx------  1 tfheen tfheen  504168 2005-11-21 13:14 proc_diskstats.log*
[08:57] <robtaylor> ogra: hmm, well, it'd be less of a pita than using klibc, i think, but added installation complexity and more chance of f*kups, it seems.. *shrug*
[08:57] <Mithrandir> that's pre .15 or not?
[08:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: is there a good way to get vesafb loaded on boot if you boot with vga=<number>?
[08:57] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I think usplash already does that.
[08:57] <Kamion> and probably fbcon, I guess; we use this logic in a few places at the moment:
[08:57] <Kamion>                                 (modprobe -q vesafb >/dev/null 2>&1 && grep -q . /proc/fb && modprobe -q fbcon >/dev/null 2>&1) || (modprobe -q vga16fb >/dev/null 2>&1 && grep -q . /proc/fb && modprobe -q fbcon >/dev/null 2>&1)
[08:58] <Kamion> oh, hmm, maybe usplash is broken then
[08:58] <BenC> mdz: no problem :)
[08:58] <Kamion> 'cos this installation here gets no framebuffer
[08:58] <ogra> robtaylor, my target for dapper was to fit on 32MB thin clients ... if my initramfs is already several 10 MB big i wont even get near that
[08:58] <mdz> Mithrandir:  -- Ben Collins <bcollins@ubuntu.com>  Sat, 12 Nov 2005 23:34:38 -0500
[08:58] <robtaylor> ogra: ah, in that case you really do need to start thinking about using ulibc, i'd say
[08:58] <Kamion> oh, usplash isn't installed
[08:58] <mdz> Mithrandir: in which case, the difference relative to Breezy is probably even greater (assuming DMA gets enabled on your hardware)
[08:58] <Mithrandir> haha
[08:59] <ogra> robtaylor, yes, but then we are in the same situation as with klibc and could even keep it
[08:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: it's a fairly new amd64 rig, so I would expect it is.
[08:59] <robtaylor> ogra: same situation in what sense?
[08:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: might very well have the change in, then.  I've promised Colin to see if I can get him a working live cd tonight, so if so, I'll whip up a few bootcharts as well.
[08:59] <ogra> robtaylor, linking against another libc than the default ...
[09:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: was that a daily CD or one you built?
[09:00] <robtaylor> ogra: ah yes indeed. but at least you dont have to do the porting work
[09:00] <Kamion> damnit, not going to get to karate tonight :(
[09:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: one I built.
[09:00] <mdz> Mithrandir: we didn't switch the default kernel until 30 November
[09:01] <mdz> or thereabouts
[09:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: probably old kernel, then.
[09:01] <Mithrandir> mdz: anyway, we'll see if there's a big difference once we have flight 2.  Not much use speculating.
[09:01] <mdz> yep
[09:01] <ogra> mdz, any opinion about the libc stuff for ltsp ? i really fear my low memory target ...
[09:02] <mdz> ogra: what libc stuff?
[09:02] <mdz> ogra: for initramfs?
[09:02] <ogra> if we get rid of klibc
[09:02] <ogra> yes
[09:02] <mdz> getting rid of klibc won't change the size of the initramfs significantly
[09:02] <ogra> doesnt it need glibc then ? 
[09:03] <mdz> it already has glibc
[09:03] <ogra> oh...
[09:03] <ogra> i thought klibc replaced it in initramfs
[09:03] <Kamion> and the initramfs is only 5.6MB with both klibc and glibc
[09:03] <Kamion> so stop panicking :)
[09:03] <ogra> ooook
[09:03] <mdz> ogra: zcat /var/lib/tftpboot/ltsp/initrd.img | cpio -tv | grep libc
[09:04] <ogra> oh,ah ok
[09:04] <mdz> if your thin client doesn't have enough memory to hold a 10M initramfs plus the kernel, I don't think it would finish booting either
[09:05] <Kamion> (ok, 13MB uncompressed)
[09:05] <ogra> yes, but i feare we'd raise the limit ...
[09:05] <ogra> *feared
[09:05] <ogra> but dropping klibc will even gain some bytes, so yay :)
[09:06] <mdz> kilobytes
[09:06] <ajmitch> morning
[09:06] <Kamion> can people try booting the current daily install CD? it won't install very well, so don't bother running all the way through, but I'd like to know if the boot screen looks right
[09:07] <ogra> i cant burn it :(
[09:07] <ogra> cd writing is broken in dapper 
[09:07] <Kamion> I've already tested in qemu, so no point trying that :)
[09:08] <mjg59> Hm.
[09:08] <Kamion> it is? I'm burning it from dapper right now
[09:08] <mjg59> Have we looked into using resmgr at all?
[09:09] <Kamion> though I use growisofs with my DVD burner, not anything graphical
[09:09] <mjg59> ajmitch: I emailed you about Dell laptop stuff - did you get back to me on that, or have I just overlooked the mail? :)
[09:09] <ptlo> err..uhh...what encoding should we use when translating the apps (through rosetta, but working offline and then uploading) into native language? utf8?
[09:10] <ajmitch> mjg59: I did tell you that my dell got stolen, right? :)
[09:10] <mjg59> ajmitch: Oh, crap. Yeah, sorry :)
[09:11] <Kamion> ptlo: I think that as long as the .po file's Content-Type is correct then it'll be fine
[09:11] <Kamion> e.g.
[09:11] <Kamion> "Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2\n"
[09:11] <Kamion> for base-config's current hr.po
[09:11] <Kamion> but UTF-8 is generally sane for new work
[09:12] <ptlo> Kamion: oh, ok, thanks
[09:12] <mjg59> Robot101: Around?
[09:16] <HiddenWolf> ogra, what is wrong?
[09:16] <ogra> HiddenWolf, they build their own liveCD, its apparently totally broken
[09:17] <ogra> and i have not enouch manpower ...
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ogra: so is our, atm. :-P
[09:17] <Mithrandir> ours, even
[09:17] <ogra> i wasnt even aware that there is a parallel project called edubuntu-fr
[09:17] <ogra> they never ever talked to us 
[09:17] <ogra> *grumble*
[09:17] <HiddenWolf> ogra, sue!
[09:17] <ogra> i'd love any helping hand :/
[09:19] <ogra> what a waste :(
[09:19] <dholbach> why don't you just mail and invite them?
[09:19] <ogra> dholbach, i just talked to a frenc guy who complained about the brokeness, he'll forward my invitation ...
[09:20] <dholbach> cool
[09:20] <ogra> my french is quite bad :)
[09:20] <dholbach> haha :)
[09:20] <ajmitch> better than mine :)
[09:20] <ogra> hmm, i think its time for official localized edubuntu lists ... i guess i'll introduce a edubuntu-de ml 
[09:36] <Kamion> no doubt the buildd admins can stop hating me now, since it's been spinning every half-hour or so for a month :-/
[09:36] <daniels> Kamion: so, speaking of buildd admins hating people
[09:36] <daniels> Kamion: you, uh, didn't have any plans to do flight 2 today or tomorrow?
[09:36] <Kamion> daniels: er, yeah
[09:37] <daniels> hm
[09:37] <daniels> Kamion: chinstrap:~daniels/tmp/dapper
[09:37] <Kamion> er, ok, yeah, please delay that if you could
[09:38] <daniels> gladly
[09:38] <Kamion> Flight 2 is once we have new kernel in (inc. ABI bump) and Mithrandir fixes the live CD and we test it all
[09:38] <daniels> when are you planning to do it, ooi? (not because I'm AWTYing the uploads, but because I figure I should probably generally be on top of these sorts of things)
[09:38] <daniels> cool
[09:43] <lucasvo> hi
[09:43] <lucasvo> mjg59: I have some problem with acpi
[09:44] <lucasvo> mjg59: ogra said I should talk to you
[09:44] <mjg59> lucasvo: Sure, go ahead
[09:44] <lucasvo> FATAL: Error inserting acpi_cpufreq (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/acpi-cpufreq.ko): No such device
[09:44] <mjg59> Are any other cpufreq modules loaded?
[09:45] <lucasvo> mjg59: how can I find out?
[09:45] <mjg59> lucasvo: What sort of CPU do you have?
[09:46] <lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/461387
[09:46] <lucasvo> mjg59: amd sempron
[09:46] <lucasvo> I think
[09:46] <ogra> lucasvo, lsmod|grep cpufreq
[09:46] <mjg59> lucasvo: Does modprobe powernow-k8 work?
[09:46] <lucasvo> ogra: pastebin
[09:46] <mjg59> lucasvo: sudo modprobe powernow-k8, that is
[09:46] <lucasvo> FATAL: Error inserting powernow_k8 (/lib/modules/2.6.12-10-386/kernel/arch/i386/kernel/cpu/cpufreq/powernow-k8.ko): No such device
[09:46] <lucasvo> no
[09:47] <ogra> k8 ? isnt that amd64  ? 
[09:47] <mjg59> lucasvo: Can you put up dmesg
[09:47] <mjg59> ogra: semprons are crippled AMD64s
[09:47] <ogra> but 32bit only afaik ...
[09:47] <mjg59> ogra: Yes, but they're still k8s
[09:47] <lucasvo> [4398568.052000]  powernow-k8: Processor cpuid 681 not supported
[09:48] <ogra> hmm ... i'd have guessed k7 ... but my guessing is often wrong :)
[09:48] <mjg59> lucasvo: Ok. And sudo modprobe powernow-k7 ?
[09:48] <lucasvo> nothing
[09:48] <mjg59> lucasvo: Nothing?
[09:49] <lucasvo> [4398690.304000]  atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xaa on isa0060/serio0).
[09:49] <lucasvo> [4398690.304000]  atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e02a <keycode>' to make it known.
[09:49] <lucasvo> ^^^ this is some strange thing I get but nothing else
[09:49] <mjg59> lucasvo: Does dmesg show any output?
[09:49] <ogra> does it show up in lsmod ? 
[09:49] <lucasvo> no doesn't
[09:51] <mjg59> lucasvo: Ok, so the problem is that the kernel doesn't know how to support your CPU
[09:51] <mjg59> It's not an acpi problem
[09:51] <lucasvo> hm, so what should I do?
[09:52] <\sh> infinity: python-kde3 just uploaded you will get it latest in 1h :) 
[09:56] <ogra> here is a sempron user, but apparently he uses powernow-k8 http://www.komputilo.org/~joostje/linux/maxdata/
[09:56] <ogra> even if he reports CPU throttling Doesn't work.
[09:57] <Keybuk> (&)
[09:57] <Keybuk> ww
[09:58] <daniels> Keybuk: the real question here is, why on earth were you trying to use a dog smiley anyway?
[09:58] <lucasvo> ogra: hm
[09:58] <Keybuk> daniels: wuff ;)
[09:58] <ogra> hehe
[09:59] <ogra> meow ....
[10:06] <fabbione> slomo: ping??
[10:07] <slomo> fabbione: pong
[10:07] <fabbione> slomo: did you notice that xine full screen is broken?
[10:08] <slomo> fabbione: hm, works here in gxine... what are you using?
[10:08] <ogra> Keybuk, GNOME Space Chart just gets famous in -motu *g*
[10:09] <fabbione> slomo: xine-ui, on a xinerama machine
[10:09] <slomo> fabbione: i don't have xinerama... could this be the cause? what exactly is broken?
[10:10] <fabbione> well when i swith to full screen i can only see a little bar on a side on one of the screens
[10:10] <fabbione> let me try gxine
[10:12] <slomo> fabbione: xine-ui works for me too in fullscreen
[10:12] <fabbione> slomo: ok. it's a xine-ui problem, probably just a missing B-D..
[10:13] <crimsun> ok, I'll fix those since I touched them both last
[10:13] <fabbione> gxine starts and shows full screen but it crashes (known X issue with threaded apps)
[10:13] <Keybuk> ogra: oh?
[10:13] <fabbione> crimsun: let me check what's missing first :)
[10:13] <slomo> crimsun: consider updating xine-ui and gxine while you're at it :)
[10:13] <daniels> threaded apps should be fine?
[10:14] <crimsun> slomo: yep
[10:14] <slomo> crimsun: thanks :)
[10:14] <crimsun> slomo: was reading xinehq.de while fabbione was looking :)
[10:14] <fabbione> daniels: check /msg
[10:14] <daniels> fabbione: score
[10:15] <ogra> Keybuk, "<cyberix> Have you seen http://www.netsplit.com/software/gnome-space-chart/" ... i guess he'd like to package it
[10:15] <fabbione> crimsun: meh well. you will need to check for B-D yourself.. compare them with a build log from breezy and build on a clean dapper chroot
[10:15] <fabbione> my system is way too pollutted to do it
[10:15] <crimsun> fabbione: np
[10:15] <fabbione> otherwise wait tomorrow :)
[10:16] <fabbione> i want to watch a movie and you guys are almost on edge of being slaughtered by me :P
[10:16] <slomo> fabbione: use mplayer until it's fixed ;)
[10:16] <fabbione> slomo: no! i want menu's and stuff :P
[10:16] <daniels> ogle?
[10:16] <fabbione> anyway.. later ;)
[10:16] <crimsun> cya ;)
[10:17] <fabbione> i like xine.. i want xine MOMMY CAN YOU BUY ME XINE? :P
[10:17] <slomo> bye bye ;)
[10:18] <Keybuk> ogra: heh, it needs finishing first
[10:18] <ogra> yes, i thought so ... ajmitch already answered him :)
[10:19] <Mithrandir> fabbione: that's called "shortsword". :-)
[10:26] <zyga> does anyone maintain vim around here
[10:26] <zyga> I've noticed a small bug with iso->utf-8 transition
[10:27] <jbailey> I think vim doesn't need maintenance, it just occasionally sits in the corner and fights with emacs.
[10:27] <jbailey> Sort of like my two cats.
[10:27] <Mithrandir> jbailey: they also fight with emacs?
[10:27] <lucas> zyga: bug or misunderstanding of the doc ? ;)
[10:27] <Mithrandir> jbailey: considered just teaching them elisp instead?
[10:27] <zyga> lucas: bug, 
[10:27] <lucas> zyga: url?
[10:27] <jbailey> Mithrandir: My cats have a surprisingly good grasp of English, but not of French.  I think I'll focus on continuing teaching them French before I move onto elisp.
[10:28] <zyga> vim tutorial is encoded with iso encoding and fails to 'notice' that, locale characters are corrupted
[10:28] <zyga> I can simply file a bug
[10:28] <lucas> the english tutorial ?
[10:29] <zyga> lucas: no, the polish one
[10:29] <Kamion> hmm, vim is normally reasonably good at spotting the encoding of a document, unless you forcibly override it
[10:29] <zyga> I think they all should be encoded in utf8
[10:29] <Mithrandir> jbailey: ours don't even understand Norwegian, but they do understand The Stare they get when they're in a place they shouldn't.
[10:29] <zyga> Kamion: I don't override it, vimtutor on LANG=pl_PL.UTF-8 is corrupted
[10:29] <Kamion> it tends to automatically decode stuff in ISO-8859-1 unless it's quite UTF-8-clean
[10:30] <zyga> Kamion: I've also noticed something stranger
[10:30] <jbailey> Mithrandir: It's not great vocabulary.  Sit, Stay, Come, Food and OFF are generally enough for what we actually need.
[10:30] <Kamion> yes, seems so in Debian too
[10:30] <zyga> there are /usr/share/vim/vim63/tutor/tutor.$LANG.$ENCODING
[10:30] <jbailey> Mithrandir: I think they understand a bit more than that based on occasional reactions, but those are the easiest to measure.
[10:30] <zyga> It seems someone has put the windows encoding for some obscure reason?
[10:31] <Kamion> it's possible that the automatic encoding detection relies on having a vimrc
[10:31] <Kamion> which vimtutor explicitly disables
[10:31] <zyga> Kamion: maybe tutor is somehow special, there seem to be multiple encodings of many tutorials
[10:31] <zyga> but not all 
[10:31] <Kamion> ah, if it's a Windows encoding it's probably lost
[10:31] <Kamion> or actually, it's probably just parsing it as ISO-8859-1
[10:32] <zyga> Kamion: 
[10:32] <zyga> /usr/share/vim/vim63/tutor# ls tutor.pl*
[10:32] <zyga> tutor.pl  tutor.pl.cp1250
[10:32] <Kamion> no
[10:32] <zyga> I'll add .utf-8 and test
[10:32] <Kamion> try ':e ++enc=iso-8859-2'
[10:32] <Kamion> in vimtutor
[10:32] <zyga> k
[10:32] <Kamion> looks OK here; you're right that recoding to UTF-8 would solve it
[10:32] <zyga> Kamion: looks fine
[10:32] <lucas> I can't tell for tutor.pl, but tutor.fr is iso-8859-1 and is correctly displayed in my utf-8 term
[10:32] <lucas> (when I vim tutor.fr)
[10:32] <Kamion> yes, iso-8859-1 is the default fallback from utf-8
[10:33] <Kamion> it's only languages whose legacy encoding is ISO-8859-N for N != 1 that have a problem here
[10:33] <zyga> gaa
[10:34] <zyga> I've added .utf-8 and it's even worse
[10:34] <zyga> the file is encoded okay but it seems to be re-encoded somehow 
[10:34] <Kamion> I'll file a Debian bug and see what the maintainers there say
[10:35] <zyga> oh, no - It actually ignored the .utf-8 file
[10:35] <zyga> I've got the iso file again
[10:35] <Kamion> you need to edit tutor.vim
[10:35] <zyga> I've removed .pl and .pl.cp1250 (leaving only .pl.utf-8) and it said it cannot find .pl :/
[10:36] <zyga> I don't think it even looks for alternate encodings
[10:36] <Kamion> see tutor.vim
[10:37] <zyga> looks way over-complicated
[10:37] <Kamion> putting a modeline at the top or bottom of tutor.pl declaring the encoding might be a better solution
[10:37] <Kamion> certainly much less intrusive, probably
[10:37] <Kamion> "certainly, probably". time for more coffee
[10:37] <zyga> I don't really understand why it needs anything apart .utf8, can vim be compiled without support for other encodings?
[10:38] <Kamion> a modeline encoding declaration should do just fine
[10:38] <Kamion> minimal change always good
[10:38] <zyga> how do I define that?
[10:38] <zyga> Kamion: removing old crap is also good IMHO but I agree 
[10:39] <zyga> Kamion: especially since tutor.vim doesn't look complete, I doubt it works for all encodings
[10:39] <zyga> (locales)
[10:39] <Kamion> yes, vim can be built without UTF-8, I believe
[10:39] <Kamion> and historically almost certainly way
[10:39] <Kamion> was
[10:39] <Kamion> there are still plenty of people using non-UTF-8 locales
[10:40] <zyga> (poor folks)
[10:40] <zyga> anyway vim should be able to handle conversion from utf-8 to anything, right?
[10:40] <zyga> (so that we don't really need to keep obsolete cp1250-encoded file around 
[10:41] <Kamion> my efforts to do it in a modeline aren't succeeding, but I'll pass the problem upstream
[10:42] <zyga> Kamion: I'll test the opposite case
[10:42] <Kamion> only if vim is built with multi-byte support AFAIK, which is presumably why vim upstream keep it this way
[10:42] <zyga> LANG=pl_PL with utf-8 file
[10:42] <Kamion> patches that are acceptable to upstream are always superior
[10:42] <Kamion> as I say, I'll file a Debian bug, don't want to spend too much time on this
[10:43] <zyga> uhh, it defaulted back to C
[10:43] <zyga> really strange
[10:43] <robtaylor> hmm, one of these days i should submit a patch so gnome session integration isnt fubard in gvim ;)
[10:43] <zyga> k, thanks Kamion 
[10:44] <zyga> Kamion: I'll try to patch tutor.vim to be smart about utf-8
[10:44] <zyga> if it works I'll ping you and we can attach that to the bug report
[10:45] <Kamion> bug filed
[10:45] <Kamion> don't have a bug number yet, see http://bugs.debian.org/vim shortly
[10:45] <Kamion> don't ping me, just mail the bug
[10:45] <zyga> Kamion: fine
[10:52] <dholbach> have a nive evening
[10:53] <mdke> ciao
[10:53] <jdong> bye :)
[10:54] <Kamion> zyga: http://bugs.debian.org/343118
[10:59] <Kamion> argh, please somebody make btmakemetafile faster
[10:59] <Kamion> oh, no, it's md5sum on *-src-*.iso, sigh
[11:00] <jdong> Kamion: it's not as bad as trying to pipe a 12GB dump through 7zip
[11:00] <jdong> I really hope you guys don't adopt 7z as the default deb compressor ;-)
[11:00] <lifeless> daniels: during breezy->dapper my touchpad lost its right-hand-side strip for scrolling
[11:00] <lifeless> daniels: was there a transition of some sort where I could have chosen the wrong package ?
[11:01] <mdke> lifeless, i think it's missing the synaptics module, at least on my laptop
[11:09] <daniels> lifeless: yes
[11:09] <daniels> lifeless: xserver-xorg-input-synaptics, instead of xorg-driver-syanptics
[11:10] <lifeless> daniels: thank you
[11:10] <daniels> i live to give
[11:10] <lifeless> you do it so well
[11:11] <lifeless> except
[11:11] <lifeless> that package is not in my packages list 
[11:15] <mdke> me neither
[11:15] <daniels> jooniverse
[11:15] <daniels> Filename: pool/universe/x/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics_0.14.3+seriouslythistime-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
[11:15] <lifeless> oh lovely
[11:15] <lifeless> Failed to fetch http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[11:15] <lifeless> Failed to fetch http://au.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[11:15] <daniels> that would be a pretty clear case of SEP
[11:16] <jdong> daniels: how do these version numbers work??
[11:16] <mdke> daniels, universe?
[11:16] <daniels> jdong: 0.14.3 -> 0.14.3+revertedto+0.13.6 -> 0.14.3+seriouslythistime
[11:16] <daniels> mdke: yes
[11:16] <mvo> lifeless: hm, au.archive.u.c out of sync? maybe Znarl can help
[11:16] <mdke> daniels, is that going to main?
[11:16] <lifeless> mvo: planetmirror is FUCKED.
[11:16] <jdong> daniels: aha
[11:17] <lifeless> they are having some serious shit from what I hear
[11:17] <daniels> mdke: yeah, when I fix the seeds (probably post-Flight 2, to prevent Colin losing hair)
[11:17] <daniels> lifeless: yeah, it's been going on for a while
[11:17] <mdke> daniels, so can I reopen my bug until then?
[11:17] <HrdwrBoB> lifeless: I use mirror.pacific.net.au
[11:17] <daniels> lifeless: not profitable, *shock*
[11:17] <mdke> daniels, you never know, you might forget ;)
[11:17] <daniels> mdke: if it'd make you happy, I guess
[11:17] <lifeless> daniels: *and horror*
[11:18] <Kamion> daniels: go ahead and commit that seed change, if it's just to supported
[11:18] <mdke> daniels, it might stop people filing more i suppose
[11:19] <daniels> Kamion: s/xorg-driver-synaptics/xserver-xorg-input-synaptics/ in desktop
[11:19] <Kamion> ah, less ideal
[11:19] <daniels> Kamion: the issue is that people are getting a useless -synaptics installed (still /usr/X11R60
[11:19] <Kamion> right
[11:19] <daniels> Kamion: right.  hence waiting. ;)
[11:21] <mdke> daniels, are there bugs open on that already that I missed?
[11:21] <lathiat> hrm i thought au.archive.u.c was pointing to uwa.edu.au not pm
[11:21] <lathiat> and indeed it is
[11:22] <daniels> mdke: #20166
[11:23] <mdke> ty
[11:24] <Pygi> Hello
[11:29] <seb128> daniels: hi
[11:30] <daniels> what ... the fuck ... is the new usplash artwork
[11:30] <daniels> by new, I mean yesterday or something
[11:30] <daniels> seb128: TOP OF THE MORNING TO YOU SIR
[11:31] <seb128> :)
[11:31] <daniels> (i just dist-upgraded to current dapper and the udev new world order.  that all worked, but I'd broken xserver-xorg-core, so now I'm stuck in the console.  irony.)
[11:31] <seb128> daniels: have you read the cairo bug (I Cced you)
[11:31] <daniels> seb128: i remember reading it in passing, yeah
[11:32] <seb128> daniels: short story, turned that's the speed issue is due to cairo workarounding xorg 6.8.2 but not current one
[11:33] <daniels> seb128: it's weird though, I thought we fixed that bug
[11:34] <daniels> seb128: but if you just want to force it on for flight 2, that would be good
[11:36] <daniels> seb128: the failure mode of that bug should be that pixmaps get rendered incorrectly, not slowly
[11:36] <daniels> so I guess I'm just wondering what's really going on
[11:37] <seb128> daniels: right, the rendering issue is fixed, but seems that the work around avoid a slow path too
[11:38] <seb128> daniels: the small example of the bug triggers it without any issue, resizing quickly a basic one colored window takes 100% CPU and with an update like every seconds on an athlon 3000 
[11:39] <daniels> seb128: how much longer are you going to be around for?
[11:42] <daniels> seb128: the only thing I can think of would be fixed in the new server, but it's pretty implausible
[11:43] <seb128> daniels: I'm still around for like an hour today, let me know if I should try the CVS for this bug
[11:44] <seb128> not I big deal though, I run a cairo with the workaround forced atm :)
[11:44] <daniels> seb128: heh
[11:44] <daniels> seb128: i should have a new xserver-xorg-core built in about 10min that should fix your troubles
[11:44] <daniels> and also mine (god I hate the console)
[11:45] <seb128> cool :)