[02:28] <maggard> hello all
[02:28] <maggard> i have an install problem with edubuntu, can anyone help me plz?
[02:29] <maggard> i don't see anything in the install notes that help
[02:44] <maggard> anyone here?
[04:10] <hyrum> Hello, recently installed edubuntu.  My kids love it.   They have been engrossed with the animation app in gcompris.  But the image selector in the lower left corner doesnt seem to work as mentioned in the help page.  Am I just missing something or is this a bug?  Does anyone know?
[11:12] <aleXL> Hey... fantastic... one little prob with dual-booting Win2k... any help out here?
[11:16] <bimberi> hi aleXL.  Ask away :)
[11:17] <aleXL> After shutting down Edubuntu, Win2k only boots properly second time... first attempt always ends up in hang on the Win2k splash screen (blue blobs get halfway then hang)... always works on second boot tho'
[11:18] <aleXL> IBM Thinkpad A30 (P3-900 + 256Mb + 20Gb)
[11:20] <aleXL> I've edited fstab by #ing the hda1 mount entry for the NTFS partition... still having same prob tho'... it's only after rebooting from Edubuntu...
[11:22] <bimberi> aleXL: hm, sorry i don't really know, that is very strange - as if grub does something which is undone by the first w2k boot -  #ubuntu might be worth a try (640 users in there atm)
[11:23] <aleXL> will do... yep, thought a bit odd...
[11:43] <lucasvo> hello
[11:54] <aleXL> hey
[12:03] <lucasvo>           Wiki: http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: on #ubuntu-meeting.  Note there will be NO weekly meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan.| Edubuntu 5.10 is out, grab 
[12:03] <lucasvo>           it while its hot ! http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Installation help http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | please use 
[12:03] <lucasvo>           paste.ubuntulinux.nl for pastin
[12:03] <lucasvo> ups 
[12:05] <aleXL> Know of any linux dyslexia progs out there? One idea is an aural spell checker that reads back what's been written hence highlighting mised out words etc.
[12:06] <lucasvo> aleXL: festival is text to speech but I don't know any other programm
[12:06] <aleXL> and missed out s's!
[12:06] <aleXL> Will have a look... thanks...
[12:07] <ogra_> aleXL, the accessibility team cares about that, we closely work together
[12:07] <Yagisan> G'day All
[12:07] <juliux> hi Yagisan 
[12:07] <ogra_> (they have their weekly meeting right after ours every wednesday)
[12:08] <Yagisan> G'day juliux, seen the Sydney riots on tv ?
[12:08] <aleXL> Thinking 'bout mind-mapping software too...
[12:08] <juliux> Yagisan, yes, i was shocked
[12:08] <ogra_> aleXL, freemind didnt compile with gcj ...
[12:09] <Yagisan> juliux: What are they saying overseas ? I know why the riots started, but they won't say it on tv here.
[12:09] <ogra_> aleXL, i looked at it for breezy .... there is a gcj port going on afaik, if we can have it in the default instal, we'll ship it ..
[12:09] <juliux> Yagisan, here in germany until yet not very much, but i don't read a daily newspaper
[12:10] <juliux> Yagisan, i have read something that they have attac attendat, but i don't think that this is true
[12:11] <juliux> Yagisan, i think that this was an cause but not the base
[12:12] <Yagisan> juliux, basically, last week a *large* group of Lebanese men, attacked an beat up volunteer lifeguards because the lifeguards were white.
[12:13] <Yagisan> juliux, it was the final catalyst for the riots
[12:13] <juliux> Yagisan, large==?
[12:13] <juliux> Yagisan, yes it was a case but not the base
[12:13] <Yagisan> juliux as in about 6 or more men
[12:13] <juliux> Yagisan, an how much white people was it in the last days? 5000 ?
[12:14] <Yagisan> juliux, but proir to that, we have had gang rapes of white women and girls by Lebanese men
[12:14] <Yagisan> claiming that they could do it, as the white people didn't follow the koran.
[12:15] <aleXL> and apparently girls harassed on beaches by muslim men? So says news in uk...
[12:15] <Yagisan> They are on tv saying that they hate all non Lebanese people
[12:15] <Yagisan> yep, that too aleXL
[12:15] <juliux> Yagisan, very strange
[12:15] <Yagisan> so *finally* something snapped
[12:16] <Yagisan> and the white guys started retailiating
[12:16] <Yagisan> in a dumb-arse way
[12:16] <aleXL> 'humanity to others' eh?
[12:16] <Yagisan> and now, they are the "racists"
[12:16] <juliux> Yagisan, i think that you have this all over the world
[12:16] <Yagisan> I mean, pot-kettle-black
[12:18] <Yagisan> On Sunday, the white people rioted, on Monday, the Lebanese rioted. And it's almost time for another one
[12:19] <juliux> ogra_, this is very cool http://www.golem.de/showhigh2.php?file=/0511/41498.html 
[12:20] <ogra_> juliux, yup, heard about it
[12:20] <juliux> ogra_, but atm very expansive
[12:21] <ogra_> i have no idea if the Au1550 s even linux supported
[12:25] <ogra_> Yagisan, seen the last three ltsp changelogs ? 
[12:25] <ogra_> :)
[12:25] <Yagisan> I know there was something I wanted to ask, oh well. I'll remember it later
[12:28] <Yagisan> ogra_: no, not yet. I'll check it out in a moment. Need to lock the doors as some hoons are outside, and give the little girl a bath
[12:28] <ogra_> oh, v 0.60 wasnt uploaded :( 
[12:28] <Yagisan> back in a bit. Hopefully I'll remember by then.
[12:28] <ogra_> that was the multiarch patch ... its not separately on the -changes list
[12:29] <ogra_> but its in current dapper now :)
[12:29] <ogra_> (with some small changes) 
[12:30] <ogra_> i.e. you have to say --arch i386 or --arch powerpc .... mdz wanted the --arch keyword in front ...
[12:52] <Yagisan> re
[12:52] <Yagisan> ogra_, mdz is picky isn't he
[12:53] <ogra_> yup, but that makes the quality of the distro ;)
[12:53] <Yagisan> just in case anyone is wondering why I mentioned the riots, well I'm the only white guy, in an all lebanese area
[12:54] <aleXL> be lucky...
[12:55] <Yagisan> thanks aleXL, I'm actually more worried about my non-white wife and kids
[12:56] <aleXL> Luck to them too... d'u know how I can use the spell check f7 to run festival? I'm really green at this...
[12:56] <aleXL> within oo2 or txteditor?
[12:58] <Yagisan> ogra_: nice to see multiarch in 0.60. He didn't like ls in the update-sshkeys ?
[12:59] <ogra_> nope, he made it a find call 
[12:59] <Yagisan> aleXL, sorry no. What is festival ?
[12:59] <aleXL> text2speech...
[12:59] <ogra_> aleXL, ping dholbach in #ubuntu-devel, he works in the a11y team
[12:59] <ogra_> or hno79 or TheMuso
[01:00] <ogra> ah, less ugly ...
[01:01] <Yagisan> ogra: find, that's part of coreutils isn't it ?
[01:02] <ogra> nope, thats in findutils
[01:04] <Yagisan> ogra: K, it's required anyway, so no missing dependency.
[01:11] <pc22> just reinstalled, sites with java wont work with my browsers.. pls help
[01:12] <ogra> pc22, you need to install java ... edubuntu cant ship it preinstalled
[01:12] <bimberi> pc22: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats (look for Java)
[01:12] <pc22> i did
[01:12] <pc22> but repositories wont work
[01:12] <ogra> the one from the miultiverse repository ? 
[01:12] <ogra> they do here 
[01:13] <ogra> pc22, the one from multiverse are the only ones tested and proven to work, if you use another java i cant help ...
[01:15] <ogra> install j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin from multiverse, it brings everything with it and configures everything for you
[01:15] <pc22> can u quote me your exact re: so i have the idea whats on your side. cos i checked all in from my side even those that are disabled
[01:16] <ogra> ??
[01:19] <pc22> referring to this http://ph.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu main restricted universe multiverse
[01:20] <pc22> ?
[01:21] <pc22> ogra?
[01:22] <ogra> looks fine
[01:22] <pc22> yes
[01:22] <ogra> so sudo apt-get install j2re1.4-mozilla-plugin should give you all you need, except you have installed another java, that would break it
[01:23] <pc22> meaning?
[01:24] <ogra> if you have sun java installed in /usr/local the one from the repos is ignored for example ...
[01:24] <pc22> ok
[01:24] <ogra> if you have it installed in the same place as the package installs in you mix up the contents of the package and suns java, that breaks as well
[01:25] <ogra> so stick with the repositorys and you are fine packages w offer are normally tested and dont require additional setup ...
[01:26] <pc22> thanks ogra downloading now
[01:26] <ogra> great :)
[01:26] <pc22> hope this will work
[01:27] <ogra> it will
[01:27] <pc22> what about w32 codecs? lol
[01:27] <ogra> they are totally illegal to redistribute 
[01:27] <ogra> so you have to find them yourself ... 
[01:28] <ogra> but i think the RestrictedFormats wikipage has some hints
[01:28] <pc22> its not illegal in our country lol
[01:28] <ogra> its illegal in every counntry
[01:28] <ogra> the different licenses of the included codecs violate each other ...
[01:29] <ogra> there is no country law that could circumvent it
[01:30] <pc22> lol
[01:30] <Yagisan> ogra: IIRC if you own a Windows license, you cam use the w32codecs
[01:30] <Yagisan> s/cam/can
[01:30] <Yagisan> pc22, but unless you *really* need wmv9 format, don't bother with it
[01:31] <ogra> Yagisan, what about the quicktime, real and other third party codecs included in the package ? of hich some have a sentence in the license that forbids redistribution alongside with other codecs ? 
[01:31] <pc22> what about quicktime movies
[01:31] <ogra> the prob are not the windows codecs in there ... its the mix of different codecs
[01:31] <Yagisan> quicktime can usually be done with a mpeg4 decoder
[01:32] <pc22> asf
[01:32] <Yagisan> ogra: those codecs can't be used on windows then
[01:32] <ogra> Yagisan, but stil soerensen and friends are in the package ;)
[01:32] <Yagisan> pc22 asf == wmv9 == msmpeg4
[01:32] <ogra> they can, but only with special distribution permission
[01:32] <pc22> k
[01:33] <Yagisan> pc22, msmpeg4 as usual, isn't fully compatable with mpeg4. unless you are into web porn, you won't miss it.
[01:34] <ogra> and you shouldnt be into web porn with a edu distro anyway *g*
[01:34] <Yagisan> ogra: isn't apple the only user of soerensen ?
[01:34] <ogra> Yagisan, quicktime is, yes 
[01:34] <pc22> i dont go porn
[01:34] <ogra> oh fun ...
[01:35] <pc22> on pc
[01:35] <pc22> lol
[01:35] <ogra> did you know the guy who developed decss2 is living in the US now ...
[01:35] <Yagisan> My little girl was teething on my dvds :(
[01:35] <ogra> so decss2 might die some day ...
[01:35] <ogra> since he wont be able to develop it further
[01:36] <Yagisan> ogra: unlikely. There is always someone determined to use the products they have purchased.
[01:36] <pc22> hmmm
[01:36] <ogra> yes, there might be maintainers ...
[01:36] <ogra> but the genius is gone :/
[01:38] <Yagisan> ogra: I always wonder why so-called genius's go to the USA. Why would you willingly go to a non-free country ?
[01:38] <ogra> money
[01:38] <ogra> he was bought by linspire
[01:38] <Yagisan> with my interest in security, I'd get the governments interest very quickly, and not the good type.
[01:38] <ogra> i still wonder how he manages not to go into jail.. the RIAA will be after him for sure
[01:39] <Yagisan> I'd like money too, but not that much.
[01:39] <pc22> whats with edubuntu? is it just ubuntu repackaged?
[01:40] <ogra> its ubuntu with added value and built around ltsp
[01:40] <Yagisan> pc22: It's a customised version of ubuntu, targeted at schools
[01:40] <Yagisan> it is a low-cost, high quality alternative
[01:40] <Yagisan> to M$, and costs less to run
[01:40] <ogra> btw, if anyone likes to test the daily install CDs, they should be safe for a first test
[01:41] <ogra> LiveCD is on its way, ETA end of the week
[01:42] <Yagisan> ogra: every few hours we get asked "Is there a live cd yet ? Is there a live cd yet ? Is there a live cd yet ? Is there a live cd yet ?"
[01:43] <ogra> yes, there is, its just not up until Kamion and Mithradir give their ok 
[01:43] <ogra> which is due during the week ...
[01:46] <pc22> java wont load? do i have to restart computer?
[01:47] <ogra> nope
[01:47] <ogra> define "java wont load"
[01:47] <ogra> what do you try  ? 
[01:47] <pc22> online.sector.sk
[01:47] <Yagisan> which java ?
[01:47] <pc22> games
[01:48] <pc22> i want to play java games
[01:48] <ogra> Yagisan, the one from multiverse
[01:49] <pc22> do i have to reinstall edubuntu?
[01:49] <Yagisan> brb
[01:49] <ogra> there are no java games on this page
[01:50] <ogra> pc22, install flashplayer-mozilla
[01:50] <ogra> the games are all flash games
[01:50] <pc22> flash is ok
[01:50] <pc22> on java
[01:50] <pc22> there are java games inside
[01:50] <ogra> hmm, no idea then ... i only see flash
[01:51] <ogra> and java works for me on amd64 and i386 here ...
[01:51] <Yagisan> re
[01:54] <Yagisan> pc22: please go here and see if it works http://www.java.com/en/download/help/testvm.xml
[01:54] <Yagisan> you should see an ugly dancing java logo
[01:56] <pc22> nothing
[01:57] <ogra> do you see java listed if you type about:plugins in the location bar ? 
[01:58] <Yagisan> pc22: did you restart firefox ?
[01:59] <ogra> shouldnt be needed anymore ...
[02:00] <pc22> hey its working now
[02:00] <Yagisan> ogra: doesn't hurt
[02:01] <pc22> it says you are using an older version
[02:01] <ogra> Yagisan, yes,that might be true :)
[02:03] <Yagisan> pc22: that's because the repo has 1.4
[02:03] <Yagisan> pc22: don't worry about it
[02:04] <pc22> do i need the new one/.
[02:04] <Yagisan> pc22: most java is written for earlier versions. You only need 1.5 for azureus
[02:04] <Yagisan> for the web, I happily use the one in multiverse
[02:04] <Yagisan> with no issues
[02:05] <pc22> sigh
[02:05] <pc22> i wonder
[02:05] <Yagisan> pc22: sun just released a new version for the hell of it
[02:06] <Yagisan> most of this stuff only needs java 1.3
[02:07] <pc22> Yagisan, where do i get cool themes
[02:07] <pc22> i want an enlightenment look
[02:08] <Yagisan> pc22: most apps starting with gtk2-engines are themes already packaged
[02:09] <Yagisan> but the most customising I do is remove the background wall paper, and increase the font sizes
[02:12] <pc22> can i see your screenshot?
[02:12] <gand__> How can I open port 21 to allow FTP service?
[02:12] <Yagisan> argh, the batteries in my mouse have died!
[02:12] <Yagisan> I'm keyboard only
[02:13] <Yagisan> pc22: what screenshot ?
[02:13] <pc22> your desktop
[02:13] <gand__> As in Administrtin ->service FTP is enabled but port 21 is closed!!
[02:14] <Yagisan> pc22: It is standard ubuntu human theme
[02:14] <Yagisan> pc22: I just right-clicked on the desktop and changed wallpaper to none
[02:14] <pc22> ahhh can i make transparent ?>
[02:15] <ogra> gand__, which ftp server is installed ? 
[02:15] <Yagisan> pc22: not unless you have a) an nvidia card >= 6x00
[02:15] <Yagisan> b) have the composite mananger loaded
[02:15] <gand__> default edubuntu I suppose
[02:15] <Yagisan> c) have a grunty pc instead of a),
[02:15] <ogra> gand__, there is no ftp server installed in edubuntu, you must have installed one manually
[02:16] <Yagisan> and d) like the pc to crash a lot, as composite is unstable
[02:16] <pc22> i have bividia
[02:16] <pc22> nvi
[02:16] <gand__> I see that  in System->Administration->Services->FTP is checked!
[02:16] <ogra> gand__, thats the tftp server for booting the thin clients
[02:17] <gand__> OK, install FTP server via synaptic package manager?
[02:17] <ogra> apparently a bug in the services admin tool, that only checks for the string ftp in the service name
[02:17] <ogra> yup
[02:17] <gand__> Ok I suppose It mean that a FTP server was running :)
[02:18] <ogra> yes, its a bug, thatnks for pointing that out, i'll talk to the service admin guy to fix that
[02:19] <gand__> do you have a FTP server to suggest me to install via Synaptic PK manager?
[02:19] <ogra> there is a supported one ...
[02:20] <ogra> supported packages have a ubuntu logo near them
[02:20] <ogra> (for supported packages you have guaranteed security support, might be important for ftp :) )
[02:21] <Yagisan> re
[02:21] <gand__> Yes I see that I've a HPA's tftp server already Installed ! How start it :)
[02:21] <ogra> thats not a ftp server
[02:21] <ogra> and it runs by default
[02:21] <ogra> tftp is for netbooting thin clients 
[02:22] <ogra> you cant do much more with it
[02:22] <gand__> opps I'm confusing tftp with ftp sorry
[02:22] <ogra> i think there is vftp or vsftp ...
[02:22] <ogra> thats the one you might want
[02:22] <ogra> it should start automatically after you installed it
[02:24] <gand__> yes VSFTPD The Very Secure FTP Daemon :)
[02:24] <ogra> great, take that one :)
[02:25] <ogra> :)
[02:28] <gand__> Yes it work only with anonymous, Now I've to confiugure to manage account?
[02:29] <ogra> there is surely a config file in /etc .... i'm not using ftp anymore over here ....
[02:40] <gand__> yes /etc/vsftpd.conf
[02:40] <gand__> anonymous_enable=NO
[02:40] <gand__> local_enable=YES
[02:40] <gand__> :)
[02:41] <ogra> cool, thats easy
[02:44] <gand__> well quite easy :) I need that root could do ftp
[02:44] <gand__> I can with my account but not with root account
[02:44] <gand__> to explain: I need to do FTP on var/www/forum
[02:45] <gand__> but var/www is owned by root
[02:45] <gand__> I've temporaly activated root pw
[02:45] <gand__> I can log in via ftp with my admin account but not with root account?
[02:45] <ogra> make a ftp group (if it doesnt exist yet) and give write permissions to that grou ? 
[02:46] <ogra> then add your admin account to it
[02:46] <gand__> Ok I try :)
[02:47] <ogra> just a guess :)
[02:47] <gand__> As I dont'k now wery well how to manage group and permission
[02:47] <gand__> Now I try using GUI
[02:47] <ogra> thre is a gui for user management
[02:47] <ogra> heh
[02:47] <ogra> :)
[02:50] <gand__> well with "add group... " I create a new group with my user as group member
[02:51] <gand__> now I've to add this group as owner of /var/www/forum, right?
[02:52] <ogra> yes, change the group permissions of the foleder
[02:53] <gand__> I was owned by root, I change to FTPgroup?
[02:53] <ogra> as i said, i'm just guessing, the ftp server might prevent you from writing to it, i'm not sure
[02:53] <ogra> yes
[02:53] <ogra> leave the user as root, but change the group 
[02:53] <gand__> ok, i was asking that
[02:53] <ogra> and then give the group write permissions
[02:55] <gand__> ok: owner:root group: ftpgroup 775
[02:56] <ogra> yup
[02:57] <ogra> if that doesnt work, i have no real idea ... but there will be docs on the net how to do it i guess
[02:57] <gand__> are this permission applied to all nested folder/file?
[02:57] <ogra> yes
[02:57] <gand__> I try
[02:57] <ogra> subfolders are normally included in the permissions
[02:58] <gand__> no It say I've no write permission :(
[02:59] <gand__> when I see inside folder properties still remain root/root/ 755
[03:00] <gand__> can I do it via terminal?
[03:01] <ogra> try inside the folder: sudo chown -R root.ftpgroup .
[03:03] <gand__> chown: too few arguments
[03:03] <ogra> sudo chown -R root.ftpgroup /var/www/forum
[03:06] <gand__> yes now from 755 tp 775?
[03:06] <gand__> is chmod?
[03:06] <ogra> yup
[03:07] <ogra> chmod -R 775 /var/www/forum
[03:13] <stecam> mauricio , oi ! sou o Uwe de londrina - recebeu meu email ?
[03:14] <mhz> stecam: yup
[03:15] <stecam> hi , nice to meet you 
[03:15] <mhz> stecam: thanks for the email and interest
[03:15] <stecam> sorry my portuguese is not too good , maybe we can try in english 
[03:15] <mhz> hehehe
[03:15] <mhz> stecam: actually, I speak no portuguese
[03:16] <stecam> right - i see ! 
[03:16] <stecam> the lets try in english 
[03:16] <ogra> to raise the bar, you could try in german ;)
[03:16] <ogra> of french
[03:17] <ogra> s/of/or 
[03:17] <stecam> i explained , what we are trying here - so is there any point where we coulkd lcollaborate ? what do you think ?
[03:21] <mhz> stecam: absolutely
[03:21] <mhz> stecam: did you read the page about tenoicmiento (in english)?
[03:21] <mhz> tecnocimiento, sorry
[03:22] <stecam> fine - yes , i started. you must know , that i am not a computerspecialist. i am still learning . 
[03:22] <mhz> stecam: if needed, (i guess it is) I could add lots of more info to it, for you
[03:22] <mhz> stecam: I am not one, either
[03:22] <mhz> :)
[03:22] <stecam> evrything is needed :)
[03:22] <mhz> yup
[03:23] <mhz> stecam: I have some questions that I'll email them to you
[03:23] <stecam> the point is , time is precious and i want to get started . thats why i try to get infos from elsewhere
[03:23] <stecam> yes , email is probably a better way to discuss this calmly 
[03:24] <stecam> anyway - i have to leave now. 
[03:24] <stecam> nice to meet you mhz- please send your questions by mail 
[03:25] <mhz> okis, stecam nice meeting you too
[03:26] <stecam> bye - have a nice day nhz- greets to chile 
[03:26] <mhz> stecam: hehehhe, thx
[03:26] <mhz> ogra: hi there. Is your umeet talk today or was it yesterday?
[03:26] <ogra> its today 
[03:27] <ogra> i still dont know *where*
[03:27] <ogra> 18:00 UTC btw
[03:27] <mhz> okis.
[03:27] <mhz> ogra: it's a #linux channel
[03:28] <ogra> ah, k 
[03:28] <mhz> I can send you the info if you need it
[03:28] <mhz> (server info)
[03:28] <ogra> that'd be nice ... 
[03:28] <mhz> okis
[03:28] <ogra> so i can save the time for looking it up, its a very busya day for me ...
[03:28] <ogra> and we have a TB meeting right after y talk
[03:28] <ogra> *my
[03:29] <mhz> ogra: All the activities will take place on the #linux channel at the UniNet IRC
[03:29] <mhz> network. You connect using our main server rotation, irc.uninet.edu, or
[03:29] <mhz> via webchat at:
[03:29] <mhz> http://webchat.uninet.edu/channel/linux
[03:29] <ogra> ah, thanks a lot
[03:29] <mhz> I'm glad I can help. After all, you definately do much stuff
[03:29] <gand__> thanks bye
[03:29] <ogra> arent they on freenode as well ?
[03:30] <mhz> it seems not, I am not sure :(
[03:30] <mhz> ogra: TB meeting?
[03:30] <ogra> tech board
[03:31] <mhz> oooh
[03:31] <ogra> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[03:31] <mhz> duh!
[03:31] <mhz> :)
[03:31] <ogra> bah, scping isos over wireless is soo slow ...
[03:32] <mhz> ogra: I have been working on a set of Gartoon Icons (64x64) for Wmaker, even the clip. I still ignore how they get to be 'default' once a person installs something like edubuntu-wmaker
[03:32] <mhz> ogra: you are nuts! wifi is slow
[03:32] <mhz> try wi-max
[03:32] <ogra> yes...
[03:32] <mhz> 70 mbps
[03:33] <ogra> i only have a 5Mbit card here
[03:33] <mhz> oh
[03:33] <mhz> why not use RJ45?
[03:33] <ogra> and in dapper CD writing is broken, so i have to move the isos to a breezy box
[03:33] <mhz> hehehehe
[03:33] <platos> hi
[03:33] <mhz> hi platos 
[03:34] <platos> does anyone know how to configure sound on ltsp?
[03:34] <platos> i've tried some things, but it doesnt quite work
[03:34] <mhz> platos: sound is not ready in breezy
[03:35] <mhz> platos: dapper may have that solved
[03:35] <ogra> platos, its about to enter dapper ...
[03:35] <platos> i know, but isnt there an hack around that?
[03:35] <ogra> sure
[03:35] <ogra> thats the spec how i implement it in dapper https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientAudioSupport
[03:36] <ogra> you can use it for breezy ...
[03:36] <platos> ok, i'll give that a try
[03:36] <platos> thanks
[03:36] <ogra> i also have a bazaar branch for the implementation: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/
[03:36] <ogra> but thats based on dapper already
[03:37] <ogra> (but might help)
[03:37] <platos> well i've tried upgrading to dapper, but somehow the clients wouldnt boot after that
[03:37] <ogra> id you only upgrade the server or also the chroot
[03:37] <ogra> it boots fine for me
[03:37] <ogra> (i hae X issues on one client though)
[03:38] <platos> i updated the server and then i runned ltsp-build-client
[03:38] <ogra> ouch
[03:38] <platos> and it looks like it couldnt find the pxe image
[03:38] <platos> it was really weird
[03:38] <ogra> never do that if you already have an existing chroot
[03:38] <platos> i removed the old one first :)
[03:39] <ogra> just chroot into it and run apt-get update && apt-get dist-upgrade
[03:39] <platos> and is sound implemented then?
[03:39] <ogra> and afterwards run ltsp-update-kernels to move the new kernbel into the PXE root for booting
[03:39] <ogra> not yet
[03:39] <platos> but i can use your bazaar thing for that right?
[03:40] <ogra> i sent it to mdz for review yesterday, but he's on holiday since today for a week ...
[03:40] <platos> oh so it would be implemented in januari or something ilke that?
[03:40] <ogra> yes, you can copy the appropriate pieces into place, but be vey careful
[03:40] <platos> *like that?
[03:40] <ogra> earlier
[03:40] <ogra> i guess in two weeks it will be in ...
[03:41] <ogra> you then have to set SOUND = 1 or SOUND = True in your lts.conf
[03:41] <ogra> the rest will be automatic
[03:41] <platos> oh well, i guess i'll try to do it myself first and if it goes wrong, i guess i'll always have my ghost
[03:41] <ogra> heh
[03:41] <platos> isnt it SOUND=Y ?
[03:41] <mhz> he
[03:41] <mhz> nope
[03:41] <ogra> platos, it could also be SOUND=platos ;)
[03:41] <mhz> eihter 0 or 1
[03:42] <mhz> LOl
[03:42] <ogra> the script only checks if SOUND contains something ;)
[03:42] <mhz> oooh
[03:42] <platos> lol
[03:42] <platos> cool
[03:42] <ogra> even 0 woul enable it
[03:42] <mhz> ogra: and you did that?
[03:42] <ogra> hmm, which might be a bug ...
[03:42] <ogra> mhz, yup ...
[03:42] <mhz> it is cool! it shows the 'haching' spirit, congrats!
[03:43] <mhz> hacking
[03:43] <ogra> the only bit thats missing is some change in the desktop audio autodetection...
[03:43] <ogra> but thats waiting for gstreamer 0.10
[03:43] <mhz> well, that could be dapper +1
[03:43] <ogra> nope
[03:43] <ogra> its dapper
[03:43] <mhz> why?
[03:43] <ogra> we switch to a new sound model on the desktop ...
[03:43] <mhz> oh, you wanna do it all, for dapper?
[03:44] <platos> which one? alsa?
[03:44] <mhz> ok, now i see
[03:44] <ogra> fully autodetection and alsa prefered over esd
[03:44] <mhz> interesting
[03:44] <ogra> so i have to write a ltspsink for gstreamer that gets preferred if LTSP_CLIENT is set
[03:44] <ogra> else it would default to alsa and wouldnt work
[03:45] <mhz> good point
[03:45] <ogra> dapper+1 will drop esd, even on thin clients and we'll try something completely new, fully gstreamer based
[03:45] <ogra> or with luck even more low level by a direct alsa transport
[03:45] <platos> wow, well good luck with that. Isn't that a problem with gnome?
[03:46] <ogra> nope
[03:46] <ogra> gnome switches to gstreamer with this release
[03:46] <ogra> all libesd calls should be gone ...
[03:47] <platos> yay thats great
[03:47] <ogra> yup
[03:47] <platos> finally some luck with my project
[03:47] <ogra> ad if we manage the alsa stuff for dapper+1 you'll have encrypted audio through ssh ...
[03:48] <ogra> and will most likely even be able to control the volume ... whic is not possible with esd
[03:48] <platos> that would be nice, as esd is a little unprotected i've read :P
[03:48] <ogra> doesnt matter on readolny systems like our thin clients are ...
[03:49] <ogra> its just that students an modify the output ip ....
[03:49] <ogra> so i could play sounds on yourthin client from mne ;)
[03:49] <platos> lol, i'm gonna disable the console for my students
[03:49] <platos> btw i'm upgrading to dapper as we speak
[03:49] <ogra> there is stillthe terminal :)
[03:50] <platos> hm, well i live in holland and its for an primary school
[03:50] <platos> and in holland most children aren't so into linux, so they dont even know what an console is
[03:50] <platos> so thats my luck
[03:50] <ogra> heh
[03:51] <platos> oh belgium or germany?
[03:51] <ogra> germany ...
[03:51] <ogra> in the eifel to be precise
[03:51] <platos> well i live about 2km near the border ^^
[03:51] <ogra> about 80km away from belgium/nl
[03:51] <platos> of germany that is
[03:52] <platos> i live near enschede
[03:52] <ogra> ah, nice thats near
[03:53] <platos> but i'm still a linux starter though
[03:53] <ogra> we all were once :)
[03:53] <platos> I started this schoolyear with linux, and I simply love it
[03:54] <ogra> great :)
[03:55] <platos> yupz, i started with fedora, tried suse and fell in love with ubuntu ;)
[03:56] <platos> but anyways, i have to compile the software in the bazaar link you gave me right?
[03:57] <platos> how do i do that?
[03:57] <platos> can i use ./configure && ./make and then copy the files
[03:57] <platos> or do i have to use gcc seperately
[03:57] <ogra> the<y are scripts
[03:57] <ogra> just copy them in place
[03:58] <ogra> nothing to compile
[03:58] <platos> oh just bash scripts?
[03:58] <platos> great
[03:59] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/client/ldm needs to go to /opt/ltsp/i386/usr/sbin/ for example ...
[03:59] <platos> and thats for dapper right?
[03:59] <ogra> yup
[03:59] <platos> i'll definitely try that out and report my findings
[04:00] <ogra> and http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/debian/ltsp-client.ltsp-client-setup.init should be copied to become /opt/ltsp/i386/etcinit.d/ltsp-client-setup
[04:00] <ogra> then just make sure to install esound-clents on the server and esound in the chroot 
[04:00] <spacey> shit
[04:00] <ogra> *esound-clients
[04:00] <spacey> did i miss a meeting today?
[04:01] <ogra> spacey, nope
[04:01] <platos> thanks, i'll copy that down
[04:01] <ogra> do you want one ? 
[04:01] <spacey> no
[04:01] <spacey> but normally its on tuesday right
[04:01] <ogra> we can easily set one up if you got withrawal occurences ;)
[04:01] <spacey> :D
[04:01] <ogra> nope, on wednesday
[04:01] <spacey> oh ok
[04:01] <spacey> :)
[04:02] <spacey> good:P
[04:02] <ogra> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event ;)
[04:02] <spacey> wouldn't want to miss out on the fun :P
[04:02] <ogra> there is also an ical file for evolution ...
[04:08] <mhz> spacey: you are not the only one who misses stuff
[04:08] <mhz> :)
[04:09] <mhz> or thinks he misses stuff
[04:09] <mhz> I missed Motu-School;
[04:39] <mhz> ogra_thin: are showin off your thin client? :D
[04:40] <ogra_thin> dvd writing didnt work from the commandline
[04:40] <mhz> boooh
[04:40] <mhz> weired
[04:40] <ogra_thin> apparently it works with nautilus with no probs ...
[04:41] <ogra_thin> and my breezy box is my headless ltsp server :)
[04:41] <ogra_thin> so i write it remote from a thin client
[04:41] <mhz> that's another reason I prefer command line over GUI (to know why an error occured)
[04:41] <mhz> wow
[04:42] <mhz> I do that all the time :) for CDs
[04:42] <mhz> ogra_thin: : I have been working on a set of Gartoon Icons (64x64) for Wmaker, even the clip. I still ignore how they get to be 'default' once a person installs something like edubuntu-wmaker
[04:43] <ogra_thin> you should submit them to the gartoon author, so he can include them ....
[04:43] <mhz> I'd like to know what else should i take care of regarding this idea. (so far, I am on wallpaper, style colors and icons)
[04:43] <ogra_thin> as long as wmaker uses freedesktop stamdards (which every WM should nowadays) it should work fine
[04:44] <mhz> yes, but besides the wallpaper, style colors and icons.. what else?
[04:45] <platos> buttons?
[04:45] <ogra_thin> i dont know, its years ago that i saw wmaker the last time
[04:46] <lucasvo> mhz: menu?
[04:46] <lucasvo> mhz: desktop icons?
[04:46] <ogra_thin> isnt that style _
[04:46] <mhz> lucasvo: ?
[04:46] <ogra_thin> the menu i mean
[04:47] <lucasvo> mhz: you are doing a design?
[04:47] <lucasvo> mhz: style?
[04:47] <mhz> lucasvo: I am working on a wmaker theme and iconing for edubuntu users
[04:48] <ogra_thin> mhz, i would just grab another design you consider complete and exchange the bits and pieces
[04:48] <mhz> so far, wallpaper + using reduced-size gartoon icons + stylus colors
[04:48] <mhz> ogra_thin: yes, but icons are not set there, are set manually
[04:49] <ogra_thin> thats buggy
[04:49] <mhz> yes
[04:49] <mhz> I even changed the clip
[04:49] <ogra_thin> why dont you use xfce 
[04:49] <mhz> for a dapper clip
[04:49] <mhz> dapper wrong
[04:49] <mhz> gartoon clip, right
[04:49] <ogra_thin> wmaker will never end up in main, you will always have to tweak a lot
[04:50] <ogra_thin> xfce will move to main in dapper as a lightweight alternative
[04:50] <mhz> ogra_thin: my knowledge is xfce is not optimal for servers that do not have 128 RAM p/client.
[04:50] <ogra_thin> xfce runs fine with about 64MB or less per client
[04:51] <mhz> and wmaker works much faster then. My idea of a wmaker edubuntu desktop is that those users/schools can just install something like edubuntu-wmaker
[04:51] <ogra_thin> 128 is a gnome/kde value
[04:51] <mhz> and get the icons and the theme/style al ltogether
[04:51] <ogra_thin> then rather call it edubuntu-wmaker-style
[04:52] <ogra_thin> and build it based on other style packages that might exist
[04:52] <mhz> ogra_thin: I agree xfce runs fine, but again, consider this: server with 512 MB and 20 clients
[04:52] <ogra_thin> will run fine
[04:52] <ogra_thin> xfce is very lightweigt
[04:53] <ogra_thin> but still freedesktop compliant
[04:53] <mhz> yup, and wmaker is even faster
[04:53] <ogra_thin> and incompatible to everything ...
[04:53] <mhz> oh, i missed that part.
[04:53] <mhz> icompatible?
[04:53] <ogra_thin> you will have a lot of work with manual setting up menu changes etc
[04:54] <ogra_thin> wmaker apparently doesnt follow the freedesktop standard thats used everywhere
[04:54] <mhz> ogra_thin: so, no way I prepare a wmaker set that does not require manual config?
[04:55] <ogra_thin> so menu changes or adding icons will be a pain for a normal teacher
[04:55] <ogra_thin> if you (the teacher) installs an app, how will it show up in th emenu
[04:56] <mhz> simple, it is there
[04:56] <mhz> or if no rebooting, then you have to run update-menus
[04:56] <ogra_thin> so does it or does it not follow freedesktop and menu-xdg standards 
[04:57] <mhz> no idea, i can find out
[04:57] <ogra_thin> then you get a debian menu
[04:57] <mhz> yup
[04:57] <ogra_thin> update-menus builds debian menus regardless if you have a age or class dependent menu
[04:57] <mhz> my menus are not intend to show icons. I am making apps use gartoon icons
[04:57] <ogra_thin> it will just ignore all the edubuntu specifics
[04:58] <mhz> oh
[04:58] <mhz> crap
[04:58] <ogra_thin> since these are waved wround freedesktop standards
[04:58] <mhz> ooops, sorry... sheeps
[04:58] <ogra_thin> heh
[04:58] <mhz> hmmmm
[04:58] <mhz> so, you say wmaker is not an option
[04:59] <mhz> ogra__: ?
[04:59] <ogra_thin> if you want it easy for the teacher i doubt that, but as i said, i didnt use it for years... might have all changed
[05:00] <mhz> lucasvo: opinions?
[05:18] <mhz> lucasvo: opinions?
[06:55] <ogra> in case someone is intrested, i'll hold an umeet online talk about edubuntu on irc.uninet.edu in #linux in 5 mins
[07:13] <lucasvo> ogra: already finished?
[07:20] <lucasvo> is there any way how to update from breezy to dapper?
[07:33] <gand> I've installed vsftpd and I can log as user, but I get autenticatin error when I log as root (I temporaly set the root pw). Any idea? Can a root log in via FTP?
[08:25] <TFP> hi
[08:25] <TFP> i just wanted to know if edubuntu is also available in german language
[08:28] <ogra> TFP, natuerlich ;)
[08:30] <TFP> also nicht nur die distro sondern auch die programme?
[08:30] <ogra> jup
[08:31] <ogra> lets keep this channel english, or open a #edubuntu-d channel ;)
[08:31] <TFP> ok
[08:31] <TFP> np
[08:31] <ogra> * #edubuntu-de 
[08:31] <TFP> then i think i will install it on my sister's pc
[08:32] <ogra> the CD only contains the english language packs due to space issues, so you need a network connection during install with it.... or you take the DVD which contains all 90 languages we offer
[08:33] <TFP> thats no prob, have a 3Mbit connection
[08:34] <ogra> great 
[08:35] <ogra> the apps theselves have their translations in the language packs we offer ... we plan to make separate language pack CDs in the future to make translation updates available ...
[08:35] <ogra> but thats the future ... only in planning state yet
[08:36] <TFP> that's enough for me
[08:37] <ogra> :)
[08:37] <TFP> i'm planning to give my sister my old pc
[08:37] <TFP> and dont have time to secure her pc and patch every hole in the xp machine, so i will just stick with edubuntu
[08:38] <TFP> have ubuntu on my machine too
[08:38] <TFP> and everything just works fine
[08:38] <TFP> so hope edubuntu will work too
[08:38] <ogra> that should apply to edubuntu as well 
[08:38] <TFP> ;)
[08:38] <ogra> make sure to read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes before installing
[08:38] <ogra> i guess you dont need a classroom install ;)
[08:38] <TFP> me too
[08:43] <lucasvo> ogra: cool
[08:43] <lucasvo> ogra: I am talking about your speech
[08:44] <lucasvo> ogra: I am intersted in use for older students....
[08:44] <ogra> thanks :)
[08:45] <lucasvo> ogra: and how about ubuntu+ldap?
[08:45] <lucasvo> or let's sau libpam-ldap?
[08:45] <lucasvo> is it working out of the box?
[08:46] <ogra> nope, not yet
[08:46] <ogra> and not in focus for dapper ....
[08:46] <ogra> but i know its planned for dapper+1
[08:54] <lucasvo> ogra: #ubuntu-meeting?
[08:54] <ogra> yup
[08:54] <ogra> in 5 mins
[08:54] <lucasvo> ogra: I would like to upgrade to dapper now... how can I do that?
[08:54] <ogra> agenda is on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[08:54] <lucasvo> what would be GAU?
[08:55] <ogra> you can just change the sources.list file 
[08:55] <lucasvo> ogra: s/breezy/dapper/g ?
[08:55] <ogra> change all occurences of breezy to dapper
[08:55] <ogra> yup
[08:56] <ogra> but beware its a development release, you migt see breakage noody knows about yet :)
[08:56] <ogra> *nobody
[08:56] <ogra> the hardware detection, initramfs and kernel changed completely, so GAU might be it doesnt boot anymore
[08:57] <lucasvo> ok
[08:57] <ogra> also dont use the dist-upgrade command of apt in a development release
[08:58] <lucasvo> ok
[08:58] <ogra> only use the upgrade command and cherrypick packages that are held back manually
[08:59] <lucasvo> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
[08:59] <lucasvo> E: Error occurred while processing libkonq4 (NewVersion1)
[08:59] <lucasvo> E: Problem with MergeList /var/lib/dpkg/status
[08:59] <lucasvo> E: The package lists or status file could not be parsed or opened.
[09:19] <lucasvo> ogra: when I update: 
[09:19] <lucasvo> http://pastebin.com/462706 < sources.list
[09:19] <lucasvo> 20:59 < lucasvo> E: Dynamic MMap ran out of room
[09:19] <ogra> lucasvo, after the meeting please
[09:20] <lucasvo> ogra: ok
[09:46] <janimo> ogra, is there a need for a lighter edubuntu?
[09:46] <janimo> if so I'll need to at least think of how it affects xubuntu and maybe help out
[09:46] <ogra> janimo, there is a lot of user demand ...
[09:46] <janimo> for the server or the thin clients?
[09:47] <ogra> thats the same 
[09:47] <ogra> i can explain you ltsp a bit after the meeting ...
[09:47] <janimo> ah I thought the server is a beefy machine running gnome
[09:48] <janimo> and the clients smallish hw, hence the lightweight ldm (or so I thought)
[09:48] <janimo> no hurry
[09:48] <ogra> ldm is a security decision ...
[09:59] <lucasvo> janimo: I'll give it a try....
[09:59] <janimo> lucasvo, ? :)
[10:00] <lucasvo> you have a server(running X, usually the full edubuntu installation)
[10:00] <janimo> ah ltsp/edubuntu setup explanation, ok
[10:00] <lucasvo> a client is nothing else than a small linux booting into ldm.
[10:01] <lucasvo> ldm then makes sure you authenticate yourself and sets up a connection to an Xclient running on the server
[10:01] <lucasvo> using the Xserver on the client(where ldm was running)
[10:01] <janimo> and you install two falvors of edubuntu on server and client?
[10:02] <lucasvo> for e.g. it starts up a gnome session
[10:02] <lucasvo> server = ubuntu + edubuntu=server + ... 
[10:03] <lucasvo> client ~= ubuntu-server+ltsp thingies
[10:03] <janimo> aha, so gnome is installed only on server?
[10:03] <janimo> in a default setup I mean
[10:03] <lucasvo> yes
[10:03] <lucasvo> there isn't any Xclient on the client
[10:03] <lucasvo> only Xserver
[10:03] <lucasvo> which uses ssh to connect to Xclient running on the server
[10:04] <janimo> which side would benefit more from a lightweigth desktop?
[10:05] <lucasvo> server
[10:05] <lucasvo> the (lightweigth) desktop runs on the Server(xclient)
[10:05] <janimo> so it handles more clients with same amount of RAM?
[10:05] <lucasvo> yes
[10:06] <janimo> and the clients(Xserver) are affected also I assume, but not as much?
[10:06] <janimo> I guess some apps keep data in the xserver
[10:06] <ogra> ok, back
[10:06] <lucasvo> not as much
[10:07] <ogra> thats marginal ...
[10:07] <lucasvo> ogra: is it normal thath 400packages are held back?
[10:07] <ogra> the prob currently is that you need about 128MB per client on your server 
[10:08] <ogra> lucasvo, yup, thats normal if you dont use dist upgrade, especially if you use any KDE stuff
[10:08] <lucasvo> because of bloatware gnome
[10:08] <ogra> for KDE its even more
[10:08] <lucasvo> hm, another reason to kick out my kde
[10:08] <janimo> wow, that is a lot
[10:09] <janimo> does it have to do with ltsp specifics or just plain desktop app memory use?
[10:09] <lucasvo> (/me doesn't agree with linus about kde & gnome)
[10:09] <ogra> so for a 20 client setup you need some GB of ram, which is fine in most cases in the US or germany or other rich countries
[10:09] <janimo> holy pig
[10:09] <janimo> I thought a 512M would be just fine
[10:09] <lucasvo> janimo: ever tried to run gnome on 32MB of ram?
[10:09] <ogra> but we have many requests for smaller setups from southamerica or southaftica where you simply dont have the funds in a school for such a big server
[10:10] <janimo> I thought the server can reuse some same RAM 
[10:10] <ogra> so having xubuntu installable as an alternative desktop would be great
[10:10] <janimo> at least for shared libs it should right, independent of clients?
[10:10] <ogra> yes, some is shared 
[10:10] <janimo> so this is what all LTSP installs require?
[10:10] <ogra> you wouldnt want to run gnome or KDE below 256MB nowadays on a standalone system
[10:11] <ogra> so there is already a lot sharing going on
[10:11] <lucasvo> janimo for e.g. revamp-it.ch (a charity organisation in Zurich) I work with is using old pc's in affrica with ltsp
[10:11] <janimo> yes, somehow I always thought of the L in LTSP as lightweight, and because of thin client I assumed thins server too :)
[10:11] <ogra> the client isnt counting here
[10:11] <janimo> well that's true for romania (where I live too)
[10:11] <ogra> its only the server and the ram usage for the desktops there that matters
[10:12] <janimo> cool so a xubuntu would maybe even double the number of clients per same amount of RAM
[10:12] <ogra> yup
[10:12] <janimo> even though the major hugs are X and firefox which we use too :)
[10:12] <zdziczek> When I start a session on an Edubuntu client, does the client or the server handle the CPU, Memory load?
[10:12] <ogra> its usual that people using ltsp use icewm or something similar
[10:12] <ogra> zdziczek, the server
[10:13] <zdziczek> ogra, so if 20 people all had OpenOffice working from client machines, the server would choke on memory?
[10:13] <ogra> janimo, but it think xcfe can cope with it and is better to integrate
[10:13] <janimo> I actually think of having icewm included too, maybe we can colaborate with ubuntulite as they have lightweight apps but are not working closely enough to be maintainable
[10:13] <ogra> zdziczek, generally we say you need 128MB per client for the server plus 256MB for the server itself, then it should work smoothly
[10:14] <janimo> it could fit on the CD as it is small if some people show interest and do the work. ButI have only today asked for renewing talks with Ulite
[10:14] <janimo> indeed xfce will not be heavy while also not looking like 1993
[10:14] <zdziczek> ogra, that's a lot of memory!
[10:14] <ogra> janimo, i tried to work with them when i had a SoC student a while back, it somehow didnt work
[10:14] <janimo> ah I remember about seeing that spec
[10:14] <janimo> this time we'll make it :)
[10:15] <ogra> zdziczek, not really, if you compare with a standalone system
[10:15] <zdziczek> ogra, there is no way to utilize the CPU/Memory of the thin clients where possible?
[10:15] <janimo> just let me know if anything is needed in xubuntu besides base desktop being usable and installable
[10:15] <janimo> like special tricks you do to install/gnome etc
[10:15] <ogra> zdziczek, not yet ... something in this direction will be done in dapper+1 (the october release)
[10:15] <lucasvo> zdziczek: debian + openmosix + kernel 2.4+ a lot of work is what you need
[10:15] <zdziczek> good progress
[10:16] <zdziczek> also, do you know how to set the default application for file types for all clients at once?
[10:16] <lucasvo> finally usplash for the client, juhu!
[10:16] <zdziczek> like say, PDFs
[10:16] <ogra> zdziczek, but as i just said to janimo, if you run a standalone gnome or KDE desktop you wouldnt want to use less than 256MB on the machine, so 128MB per lient with one of tese desktops is already a good win
[10:17] <janimo> in those 128M per client X is not included at all right?just apps
[10:17] <ogra> zdziczek, you can do that via gconf settings, there is a administrator handbook for gnome on gnome.org somewhere, not sure how much out of date it is
[10:17] <zdziczek> ogra, yes i didnt mean it that way -- i just meant if you have a large lab -- you'd need to have many servers or a farm
[10:17] <ogra> janimo, X doesnt run on the server 
[10:18] <ogra> (doesnt need to)
[10:18] <ogra> zdziczek, yup, thats the drawback
[10:18] <janimo> so a 128M/client is actually a bit more that 128M on a standalone desktop as X is not counted
[10:18] <lucasvo> janimo: 128MB per client on the server only
[10:19] <ogra> the clients need about 64MB to boot and run the X server in fullcolor mode ...
[10:19] <lucasvo> on the client-pc you just need enough for X to run
[10:19] <janimo> as if client had 128 + the amount already holding base system + Xserver
[10:19] <ogra> switching down to 16bit should get you to 48MB
[10:19] <janimo> is the X server or the base system eating the more ram?
[10:20] <ogra> the client uses its ram only for booting and starting up X
[10:20] <lucasvo> janimo: X server
[10:20] <janimo> maybe Tiny-X could be evaled?
[10:20] <janimo> just a thought
[10:20] <ogra> nope
[10:20] <ogra> we rely 100% on our xorg packages and their autodetection capabilities
[10:20] <lucasvo> even if they aren't working :D
[10:20] <janimo> I mean if tiny-x got packaged.it is in 7.0 AFAIK
[10:21] <ogra> the big advantage with the ubuntu ltsp is that you dont need to configure anything
[10:21] <janimo> that's true.
[10:21] <lucasvo> it takes about 10 min 
[10:22] <janimo> but in such large setups if there's a knowledgable admin a lot of resources could be saved with some advanced tweaks.anyway irrelevant at this point
[10:22] <janimo> cool, if only I could find a room with many boxes to try it out :)
[10:22] <janimo> schools here seems to shy away from free stuff.
[10:23] <janimo> got brainwashed from upstream
[10:24] <lucasvo> janimo: the problem is that for e.g. in kongo there isn't enough money to pay IT specialist... so tweaking is no option
[10:24] <janimo> true
[10:25] <janimo> volunteers maybe :)
[10:25] <lucasvo> janimo: do you know someboyd who wants to pay a flight to Affrica?
[10:26] <janimo> I mean kongo-ubuntu LoCo team
[10:26] <lucasvo> there isn't any yet
[10:26] <lucasvo> I think
[10:26] <janimo> are you there btw?
[10:26] <ogra_> start one :)
[10:27] <janimo> I think the nice thing with ubuntu is that it encourages decentralization
[10:27] <lucasvo> janimo: no I am in one of the richest countries of the world :D
[10:27] <janimo> as opposed to waiting for the certified specialist from the 'first world'
[10:27] <lucasvo> janimo: we throw pc's away, people are using in affrica
[10:28] <janimo> chances are that those who install a lab of 20 PCs in kongo will know enough to at least ask for help online :)
[10:28] <lucasvo> janimo: I am a student in CH, so couldn't even go to kongo...
[10:28] <janimo> great thing
[10:28] <lucasvo> janimo: how should one get online?
[10:28] <janimo> well, why don;t you send down some infrastrcuture too ;) ?
[10:28] <janimo> ok I see your point
[10:29] <ogra> they often dont even hav power down there 
[10:29] <janimo> but I though foundations generally take some knowhow with them don;t just pack PCs along with fridges and TVs and send them away
[10:29] <ogra> let alone phone lines
[10:29] <lucasvo> janimo: as I said I am working with www.revamp-it.ch and they are doing exactly this
[10:29] <janimo> looking at it
[10:29] <lucasvo> ogra: but they will soon have wimax :P
[10:30] <lucasvo> powered by intel
[10:30] <ogra> there is a very cool project of a guy driving around with a moped and collecting emails from people without connection... 
[10:30] <lucasvo> cool
[10:30] <janimo> with a laptop?
[10:30] <ogra> he then sends the ails from home to the et, collects the answers and transports hem by moped to the people again
[10:31] <ogra> yup
[10:31] <janimo> cool,
[10:31] <ogra> you can hand him your usbstick and he carries your mail to the web
[10:31] <janimo> hello Sir. bzr pull, kthxby
[10:31] <lucasvo> ogra: what about edubuntu for older students?
[10:31] <ogra> a similar project is there with someone driving around with a CD writer
[10:32] <lucasvo> this is a brilliant idea...
[10:32] <ogra> lucasvo, for now we'll only have 3 diffrent themes ...
[10:32] <lucasvo> ogra: I have to note that
[10:32] <ogra> for three different ages
[10:32] <lucasvo> ogra: I will talk about that with revamp-it
[10:32] <lucasvo> ogra: is it already working in dapper?
[10:33] <ogra> but the plan is to make menu profiles later that a) respect the theme/ages selection and b) are task driven ...
[10:33] <ogra> nope
[10:33] <ogra> thats not for dapper
[10:33] <ogra> dapper will only have the three themes as a base for the other stuff
[10:33] <janimo> night guys
[10:33] <ogra> night janimo 
[10:35] <lucasvo> ogra: so, I can't speed it somehow up?
[10:35] <lucasvo> is there any todo list?
[10:36] <ogra> there is the list in the meeting notes from the edubuntu roadmap meeting we had in montreal
[10:36] <lucasvo> ogra: is it in the wiki?
[10:56] <lucasvo> hi claude 
[11:20] <francoisb> Hello,
[11:21] <lucasvo> francoisb: good night
[11:22] <francoisb> I've installed an edubuntu in place of an ubuntu to have an ltsp server
[11:22] <francoisb> I kept my home partition
[11:23] <francoisb> Everything seems fine but it's impossible to login on the TX
[11:23] <ogra> did you read http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
[11:24] <francoisb> I don't know*
[11:26] <francoisb> Ok I've read it
[11:26] <ogra> are the clients booting fine ? 
[11:26] <francoisb> Yes until the login screen
[11:27] <francoisb> but read-only errors are reported
[11:27] <ogra> thats normal ...
[11:28] <francoisb> one in /network/run/ifstate
[11:28] <ogra> its some cosmetic stuff that will go away in the next release
[11:28] <ogra> dont worry about it, its all fiune if you get to the login screen...
[11:28] <ogra> but check /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts on the server
[11:28] <ogra> it should contain a host key and the right ip address
[11:29] <ogra> if thats not the case, run sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
[11:29] <ogra> make sure sshd is running on the server if you try to log in ...
[11:29] <francoisb> I try
[11:30] <ogra> and indeed the user must exist on the server ....
[11:32] <francoisb> There is some 192.168.0.1 but I swaped the server to 10.0.0.2
[11:32] <ogra> ah, then run the command i gave you above
[11:33] <ogra> and make sure 10.0.0.2 shows up in the file with a key assigned
[11:33] <francoisb> Thank you, I did'nt knows if this command was availaible now
[11:34] <ogra> the command is always available as long as edubuntu-server is installed (the default)
[11:35] <francoisb> It's updated
[11:35] <ogra> great
[11:35] <ogra> now try to boot the client and try to log in again
[11:36] <francoisb> I'ts fine !
[11:36] <ogra> great :)
[11:37] <francoisb> Now can demontrate how to use old PC's (we have some in Franbce too)
[11:38] <ogra> they are everywhere in the world ;)
[11:38] <francoisb> I would be glad to participate somehow (french translation of Wiki?)
[11:39] <ogra> sure
[11:39] <ogra> if you have time, come to the weekly meeting tomorrow
[11:40] <ogra> its at 13:00 european time every wednesday
[11:40] <ogra> in #ubuntu-meeting 
[11:40] <lucasvo> I have school then, but I think I will just log it :D
[11:40] <francoisb> On Xchat?
[11:40] <francoisb> Ok, I'll try
[11:40] <ogra> great :) 
[11:41] <ogra> lucasvo, its logged on  http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ as this channel is too ...
[11:41] <lucasvo> hm, ok
[11:41] <ogra> (all ubuntu channels are logged there)
[11:41] <lucasvo> 13:00 gmt?
[11:42] <ogra> 12:00 gmt 
[11:42] <francoisb> You can send me things to translate by mail either
[11:42] <ogra> 13:00 german/french/swiss time
[11:42] <claude> francoisb: subscribe to the french mailing list
[11:42] <ogra> francoisb, the documentation guys will be there ... i do more development than docs
[11:42] <claude> we coordinate there work in french
[11:43] <ogra> we have a good bunch of stuff different people work on and translate on ..
[11:43] <francoisb> The adress ?
[11:43] <ogra> i.e. most important is the edubuntu cookbook where alrady some work is happening
[11:44] <claude> francoisb: ubuntu_edubuntu-subscribe@lists.apinc.org
[11:45] <francoisb> Ok, thanks
[11:46] <ogra> francoisb, the edubuntu-devel list might also be intresting, the main development and doc work is done there ... the edubuntu-fr people just started to coordinate with us there too
[11:47] <ogra> lucasvo, hmm what did you delete from the topic, seems there is missing a bunch of stuff
[11:48] <loogaroo> hi
[11:48] <francoisb> I'm in contact with the french Skolelinux staff, It could be fine to have synergy
[11:48] <loogaroo> hi ogra
[11:49] <ogra> francoisb, yes, that would be cool... the german guys just invited me to visit their lab in february ...
[11:49] <lucasvo> ogra: ehm I just added "Just ASK and wait till somebody
[11:49] <ogra> hi loogaroo 
[11:49] <lucasvo>           responds"
[11:49] <lucasvo> ogra: and removed the pastebin
[11:50] <ogra> the meeting date is missing too and the url for mailing list subscription was broken
[11:50] <lucasvo> ogra: hm, this is strange
[11:50] <lucasvo> ogra: sorry
[11:50] <francoisb> Ok, have a good night now
[11:50] <ogra> and the pastebin os very helpful...
[11:51] <ogra> lucasvo, no worrie :)
[11:51] <ogra> s
[11:51] <lucasvo> ogra: but is it more important than telling users just to ask?
[11:51] <ogra> the lenght is limited and the just ask text is very long ...
[11:51] <ogra> usually JaneW puts in all important dates and urls there
[11:52] <lucasvo> http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel  < is long as well
[11:52] <lucasvo> :D
[11:52] <ogra> yes, but we want people to be able to subscribe easy without searching...
[11:53] <ogra> getting more people on the list is an oimportant task to show we have a community... so mark will keep the project running
[11:54] <ogra> argh
[11:54] <lucasvo> ogra: :D
[11:54] <ogra> sorry, but i will delete that sentence ... there is just not enough space
[11:54] <lucasvo> no problem
[11:55] <lucasvo> ogra: but why is this still in topic: dubuntu 5.10 is out,
[11:55] <lucasvo> already more than 2 month olds....
[11:56] <lucasvo> ogra: is makr talking about stopping funding edubuntu?
[11:57] <ogra> damned
[11:58] <ogra> finally
[11:58] <lucasvo> The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download Version 5.10 on  http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | ......
[11:58] <lucasvo> what do you think of this^^
[11:59] <ogra> feel free to shuffle stuff around now, just make sure all info is still in there :)
[12:00] <lucasvo> ogra: I first have to find out how to change topic correctly in irssi
[12:00] <ogra> lucasvo, the project is still young, and he will measure its success by people participating in the official channels, lists and the wiki
[12:00] <lucasvo> ah you juast have to press tab
[12:00] <lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
[12:01] <ogra> things like this will for example decide about a pressed CD for dapper 
[12:02] <ogra> great :)
[12:03] <loogaroo> where can I file bugs for edubuntu?
[12:03] <loogaroo> launchpad.net oder bugzilla,ubuntu.com?
[12:03] <ogra> in bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:03] <ogra> all stuff contained in edubuntu is in main... bugs for main go to bugzilla ...
[12:04] <ogra> use launchpad only for bugs in universe packages
[12:04] <loogaroo> and die bugs from dapper to launchpad, or?
[12:04] <ogra> nope, the same applies for dapper
[12:05] <ogra> you are running dapper ? 
[12:05] <loogaroo> hmm, ok
[12:05] <loogaroo> no, breezy
[12:05] <ogra> ah ok