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[12:07] <LaserJock> in general how long does it take from when a package hits dapper-changes until it is in archives.u.c?
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[12:14] <Riddell> LaserJock: it enters the build queue on a 5 minute cron job, then it has to wait to be picked by the build daemons which usually doesn't take too long, then it has to build which takes however long then it has to be uploaded which is on a half hour cron job I seem to remember
[12:16] <\sh> Riddell: amu and I decided to have a hack session now to fix at least all serious kubuntu rc bugs ,)
[12:18] <Robot101> mjg59: moo
[12:19] <LaserJock> Riddell: thanks
[12:19] <Riddell> \sh: excellent
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[12:34] <jdong> BTW guys great job on the Dapper artwork :)
[12:39] <mjg59> Robot101: Still there?
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[12:41] <Riddell> jdong: where's that?
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[12:49] <\sh> daniels: tour bug headlines are very weired
[12:49] <\sh> s/tour/your/
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[12:53] <daniels> \sh: how so?
[12:53] <\sh> daniels: "xvfb font path is screwed, news at 11" 
[12:54] <daniels> heh
[12:54] <seb128> daniels: BTW, when are you going to fix xnest? vuntz had to downgrade it to make a sabayon demo previous week
[12:54] <daniels> seb128: i've fixed it in the server packages I'm working on now
[12:55] <seb128> rock ;)
[12:55] <daniels> unfortunately it does interesting things to my laptop display
[12:55] <daniels> interesting in the sense of, if I leave this on for long enough, my panel will be totally fucked
[12:55] <seb128> don't blame the panel! :p
[12:55] <daniels> so it's possibly a net loss
[12:55] <daniels> haha
[12:55] <daniels> it's always the panel, man
[12:55] <daniels> any bug reports involving an lcd -> seb128
[12:55] <seb128> iz gtk bog
[12:55] <seb128> :-P
[12:56] <daniels> so yeah, just chasing up what changed in the core to break that
[12:56] <seb128> I should give gtk to dholbach ;)
[12:56] <daniels> good plan
[12:57] <seb128> speaking of GTK, before going to bed, if anybody complains about a suite of new FTBFS due to GTK stuff
[12:57] <daniels> colin may murder you in your sleep
[12:57] <seb128> it's fixed with GTK 2.8.9 which I've uploaded to Debian and asked elmo to sync a few hours ago on IRC
[12:58] <seb128> but seems he's not around
[12:58] <\sh> seb128: no excuses
[12:59] <daniels> daniel's tip for tuesday: if you leave your mainly-steel watch on the window sill during a blazing 30degC day, it will probably be really hot when you try to put it on the next day
[01:00] <seb128> ah ah :)
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[01:04] <\sh> well..I think I will close #12427
[01:12] <daniels> don't close it, just reassign to the kernel where it belongs
[01:14] <\sh> daniels: dude...I don't think "laptop gets hot when it's not using USB" is a kernel thing
[01:14] <daniels> how could it possibly not be?
[01:15] <\sh> daniels: well...my laptop gets hot when it's increasing cpu speed..but this is know by manufacture
[01:15] <daniels> \sh: if you read it, you'll note that he says as soon as he plugs something into the USB port, the fans kick in, so the temperature reduces a great deal
[01:15] <daniels> which sounds exactly like badly busted ACPI
[01:16] <\sh> k...i'll read something about an hw problem...
[01:16] <\sh> "If I have all my USB ports free my computer starts getting hotter."
[01:18] <\sh> well...lets see what mjg will tell us
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[01:57] <zul> jbailey: ping
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[02:21] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync grisbi from debian unstable (ubuntu override okey)
[02:35] <mgalvin> does anyone know if we have any current hard numbers of boot speed improvements yet and maybe some of those nice before and after graphs?
[02:37] <Nafallo> mgalvin: http://www.magicalforest.se/~nafallo/bootchart/ :-)
[02:37] <Nafallo> it's not a pure ubuntu-desktop though :-P
[02:40] <mgalvin> Nafallo: rock! thanks
[02:40] <Nafallo> np :-)
[02:40] <mgalvin> do you know what the old breezy ~boot time is by any chance?
[02:42] <Nafallo> nope
[02:42] <Nafallo> I would guess the oldest one + ~10 secs
[02:44] <mgalvin> ok, thanks, maybe I will just install bootchart on my breezy machine so I can get a graph of that too
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[02:45] <Nafallo> :-)
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[02:52] <mjg59> infinity: YOU HAVE BROKEN USPLASH
[02:52] <mjg59> infinity: (It no longer scrolls a big enough area since you moved the status text further out)
[02:54] <infinity> Erm, really?... It worked here.
[02:54] <infinity> Do you have some really long status text?
[02:54] <mjg59> #20911
[02:55] <infinity> Oh, feh, I was testing with the word "fail", not "failed".  LAME.
[02:56] <infinity> Also, this is the reason why I'm replacing the proportional font with a fixed-width font, so we can right-justify that column and stop guessing where the text might end up.
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[02:56] <infinity> mjg59 : But, for now, since we write NOTHING to the edges, why are not just scrolling everything from 0 to 640, instead of guessing where the text will land?
[02:57] <infinity> s/are note/are we not/
[02:58] <mjg59> Because I thought there might be artwork there
[02:58] <infinity> Some frilly laurels or something?
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[02:58] <mjg59> Yeah
[02:58] <infinity> Well, if we had a proper bounding box for the text, I'd agree that it's all we should scroll.
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[02:59] <infinity> But in the current "write some stuff, and guess that it might end up vaguely thereish" world order...
[02:59] <mjg59> Ha
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[02:59] <mjg59> Yeah
[02:59] <mjg59> But the status stuff is fairly well constrained
[02:59] <mjg59> And normal text is wrapped
[02:59] <mjg59> So...
[02:59] <infinity> Status is constrained, until you write a long status message.
[03:00] <infinity> You can keep writing status as long as you want, and it just keeps pushing to the right. :)
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[03:00] <infinity> "FAILURE failederooney"
[03:00] <infinity> You know someone will do it. :)
[03:00] <mjg59> Yeah, but they suck
[03:00] <infinity> (But, yeah, I'll just push the scroll are out a few pixels to fix this bug)
[03:00] <infinity> area, too.
[03:00] <infinity> Unless you already have.
[03:02] <mjg59> Not yet
[03:02] <mjg59> I'm writing a website to get me sued instead
[03:02] <infinity> Kay.  Doing it now, then.
[03:02] <infinity> Oh, those are fun.
[03:02] <infinity> Who's suing you this week?
[03:02] <mjg59> http://www.srcf.ucam.org/~mjg59/GPL/ so far
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[03:04] <infinity> mjg59 : When you say "contain GPLd code", do you mean "contain someone else's GPLd code", or just "the work is licensed under the GPL by the copyright holder"?
[03:04] <mjg59> infinity: If it's not in violation of the GPL, then the latter
[03:04] <mjg59> But only the former case is something where there's potential litigation
[03:04] <infinity> mjg59 : The latter being a fuzzier area, since it's not ILLEGAL to license your own work incorrectly, just stupid.
[03:04] <infinity> Right.
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[03:25] <infinity> \sh : Thanks for sorting python-kde3
[03:26] <\sh> infinity: my pleasure...you have now sip4 + pyqt newer then in debian and pykde building with kde3.5 but without kde3.5 api 
[03:26] <infinity> Good enough for now.
[03:27] <\sh> infinity: well I hope so..and we have now python2.4-qt3-gl which was MIA a long time
[03:29] <SEJeff> mjg59: You are suing Linuxant, or you work for them and someone is suing you? I'm confused over what you said and what that website says
[03:31] <mjg59> SEJeff: No, nobody is currently being sued
[03:32] <SEJeff> Does the guy that runs gpl-violations.org know about Linuxant? I know a few projects signed over their copyright to him temporarily so he could sue the german companies
[03:32] <mjg59> I haven't, no
[03:32] <mjg59> But I've contacted the copyright holders
[03:33] <SEJeff> Ok, you might contact him too. That guy goes for the jugular and has resolved several cases
[03:33] <mjg59> Linuxant aren't German, sadly
[03:33] <mjg59> They're based in Montreal
[03:33] <SEJeff> Are you in CA?
[03:34] <mjg59> Nope
=== zakame prays for the enlightening of Linuxant :/
[03:34] <SEJeff> hmmmmm, that makes it pretty hard to open a case against them
[03:34] <mjg59> Yeah
[03:34] <infinity> USPLASH IS HATE
[03:35] <mjg59> So I'm just hoping they'll threaten me with a lawsuit or takedown notice
[03:35] <SEJeff> But suing them and winning would set a precedence that I don't think exists in northern america
[03:35] <jsgotangco> zakame, bleahhh
[03:35] <mjg59> infinity: LIES
[03:35] <infinity> TRUTH.
[03:35] <mjg59> LIESLIESLIES
[03:35] <SEJeff>  /. here we come :-)
[03:36] <zakame> jsgotangco: err, do you want me to lose all hopes of connectivity? :p
[03:36] <jsgotangco> zakame, that's not the point
[03:38] <SEJeff> mjg59: What did the copyright holders say?
[03:38] <mjg59> SEJeff: There may be interesting kernel patches forthcoming
[03:38] <mjg59> (of the "oops, was that your business model we just destroyed?" variety)
[03:38] <SEJeff> mjg59: I'm guessing to break the linuxant drivers?
[03:38] <infinity> Oh, duh.  I'm retarded.  (and usplash is hate)
[03:39] <mjg59> infinity: YOU ARE HATE
[03:39] <SEJeff> infinity: don't hate
[03:39] <robtaylor> we are all love... ommmm.....
[03:39] <jsgotangco> haha
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=== robtaylor hope he will never have to manually rebuild gst 0.10 again...
[03:41] <SEJeff> mjg59: If anything serious comes of your page, let me know and I will help you to the best of my ability
[03:41] <mjg59> SEJeff: Heh. Thanks :)
[03:45] <SEJeff> mjg59: I'm going to take a crazy guess and say that patch you were talking about was from Adrian Bunk. I found something about linuxant and ndiswrapper on lkml
[03:45] <mjg59> Nah, that's a different one (that breaks driverloader)
[03:47] <SEJeff> mjg59: Found it, thanks
[03:55] <jdub> NEW KERNEL! NEW KERNEL!
[03:56] <mjg59> GOGOGO
[03:56] <whiprush> NEW USPLASH!
[03:57] <mjg59> WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG HERE?
[03:57] <mjg59> Haha
[03:57] <whiprush> I haven't rebooted yet, is it still a gimp-nightmare? (usplash)
[03:57] <tseng> no
[03:57] <mjg59> I love that we ship a splash that I wrote while very drunk and hungover in a dorm room in Helsinki
[03:57] <mjg59> whiprush: Nah
[03:57] <jsgotangco> heh
[03:57] <whiprush> I think you should ship that for a while longer
[03:57] <mjg59> So do I
[03:57] <whiprush> put the fear of god into anyone daring to use dapper.
[03:57] <jsgotangco> yeah its just awesome
[03:57] <mjg59> But infinity changed it
[03:57] <mjg59> infinity: HATER
[03:58] <jsgotangco> UGH
[03:58] <mjg59> Don't worry
[03:58] <whiprush> maybe add a "X isn't going to work either dude." on the bottom
[03:58] <mjg59> I'll change it next time I do an upload of usplash
[03:58] <zul> mjg59: its called quality
[03:59] <mjg59> usplash is your guarantee of quality
[03:59] <jdub> *cough* should be using X!!! *cough*
[03:59] <mjg59> jdub: Hater
[03:59] <mjg59> jdub: (0.2 seconds startup time against at least 5)
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[04:09] <infinity> mjg59 : <laugh>... I changed it back so Flight-2 would be a bit more "professional" or some crap.  Change it back after Flight-2 is out. :)
[04:09] <infinity> mjg59 : I wouldn't oppose a splash-of-the-week until we get new/final artwork.
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[06:01] <fabbione> jdub: ping?
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[07:20] <daniels> listen
[07:20] <daniels> X WORKS
[07:20] <daniels> i haven't upload the verson which will probably fuck my panel on i810 if I run it for long enough
[07:20] <daniels> i just wanted to make that clear
[07:21] <fabbione> daniels: ?
=== fabbione takes the pipe away from the kid
[07:21] <daniels> 02:58 < whiprush> maybe add a "X isn't going to work either dude." on the bottom
[07:22] <fabbione> oh
[07:22] <jsgotangco> doh
[07:22] <jsgotangco> surely he was jesting..because of our beautiful usplash
[07:23] <daniels> definitely in jest, because it's been ages since I've broken X :P
[07:23] <fabbione> daniels: would you be so kind to SMS jdub: "fabbione is waiting for you, or he will make you an offer you can't refuse. kthxbye"?
[07:25] <daniels> done
[07:25] <fabbione> daniels: thanks dude
[07:25] <daniels> amazingly my phone knew the word 'testicles' without me having to teach it
[07:25] <fabbione> ahahah
[07:27] <jsgotangco> hahaha
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[07:39] <Treenaks> next question: why are you sending messages with the word 'testicles'?
[07:39] <Treenaks> + in them
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[07:52] <daniels> Treenaks: i'm trying to communicate with jdub on his level
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[08:10] <janimo> no TB meeting today?
[08:11] <Pygi> don't know
[08:11] <robitaille> none scheduled yet:  https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TechnicalBoardAgenda
[08:16] <janimo> last time it was scheduled some hours before, so I want to get ready
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[08:21] <smurf> Bah. dh_gconf forgets to add a dependency on a new-enough gconf2.
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[08:45] <infinity> Ugh, gnome-terminal is completely and utterly hosed.
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[08:59] <smurf> infinity: Happily I didn't upgrade that yet. What does it do, insert "sudo rm -rf /" in front of every statement?
[09:04] <sivang_away> morning all
[09:04] <Pygi> mornin' sivang
[09:05] <sivang_away> hey yi 
[09:05] <sivang_away> err
=== sivang_away can't type this morning
[09:05] <Pygi> hehe ;)
[09:05] <sivang_away> also, can't change my nick back for some weird reason
[09:06] <Pygi> heh :/
[09:06] <fabbione> sivang_away: leave #launchpad, change nick, enter again
[09:06] <fabbione> no idea why that channel is making problems
[09:06] <sivang_away> fabbione: yes, that is it. We need to fix that :)
[09:06] <sivang_away> maybe close channel, reopen 
[09:07] <sivang_away> anyway - be right back
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[09:07] <sivang> ah, that's better
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[09:09] <Pygi> good
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[09:16] <mdke> fabbione, because it is +R i think
[09:17] <mdke> they set it because of some huge spam bot attack the other day
[09:21] <mdke> sivang, works ok if you register both nicks and link em
[09:23] <sivang> mdke: ah ok, I didn't know that. I will try that, thanks.
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[09:24] <mdke> sivang, in fact I think just linking them does the job, you don't have to register them separately
[09:27] <sivang> mdke: how do you link between nicks?
[09:28] <mdke> sivang, /msg nickserv group
[09:28] <mdke> change to your away nick, do /msg nickserv group sivang password
[09:28] <mdke> i think
[09:29] <pitti> eek - how the f*** slipped ffmpeg into main for hoary?
[09:29] <HiddenWolf> -NickServ-     LINK       Link your nickname to another
[09:30] <HiddenWolf> ./msg nickserv link <other-nick>
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[09:30] <pitti> jdub: we will all go to jail. ^ :/
[09:31] <fabbione> pitti: check the dates on the Packages.gz files
[09:31] <mdke> HiddenWolf, heh i was looking at the wrong network
[09:31] <mdke> sivang, what he said :)
[09:31] <pitti> fabbione: hm?
[09:31] <fabbione> April 7 2005 ?
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[09:32] <pitti> fabbione: no idea, this is madison on jackass
[09:32] <pitti> Hi slomo
[09:32] <fabbione> pitti: i think it's a known problem..
[09:32] <slomo> pitti: hi :)
[09:34] <HiddenWolf> "pitti: we will all go to jail! -> slomo: Hi :)"
[09:34] <fabbione> ahahah
[09:34] <pitti> yes - summoning powers ;)
[09:35] <slomo> pitti: what happened?
[09:35] <pitti>     ffmpeg | 3:0.cvs20050121-1ubuntu1 | http://de.archive.ubuntu.com hoary/main Sources
[09:35] <pitti> slomo: this happened
[09:35] <HiddenWolf> Filename: pool/universe/f/ffmpeg/ffmpeg_0.cvs20050918-4ubuntu1_i386.deb
[09:35] <HiddenWolf> that's on my breezy box.
[09:36] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: source != binary
[09:36] <fabbione> HiddenWolf: and hoary != breezy
[09:36] <pitti> slomo: yes, it's in main only for hoary
[09:37] <slomo> pitti: i know... i moved it out of main for breezy
[09:37] <slomo> pitti: it was there only for kino iirc
[09:40] <slomo> pitti: what's exactly the problem now? we still have ffmpeg in main in xine-lib but it will disappear soon :/  (sorry for stupid questions, i'm still almost asleep ;) )
[09:41] <pitti> slomo: I was just surprised to see these codecs in main, but OTOH we have libmad in main forever...
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[09:55] <fabbione> elmo: can you please autosync util-linux from debian? thanks
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[10:06] <Pygi> welcome dholbach and sabdfl
[10:06] <sabdfl> hi
[10:06] <Tm_T> hullo
=== mvo waves
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[10:07] <Tm_T> sucky, no kernel borkage since... 15-5
[10:07] <infinity> dholbach : Your gnome-terminal update is making me cry. :/
[10:07] <dholbach> hey sabdfl and Pygi - hi everybody else :)
[10:07] <Tm_T> works too well ;(
[10:07] <Treenaks> Tm_T: we should put up a sign..
[10:07] <infinity> dholbach : I had to downgrade.
[10:08] <Tm_T> Treenaks: yu
[10:08] <dholbach> infinity: really?
[10:08] <dholbach> infinity: how so?
[10:08] <dholbach> it works nice on 3 of my boxes
[10:08] <infinity> dholbach : I have a launcher on my panel to launch g-t.  If I try to launch a second instance, the first freezes (and the second never shows up)
[10:08] <infinity> The launcher does "gnome-terminal --geometry=100x37" (don't ask)
[10:08] <infinity> Nothing terribly odd.
[10:09] <Pygi> hehe, dholback, remember the most favorite quote of all developers? ;) "It works on my computers" ;) hehe ;)
[10:09] <Tm_T> haha
[10:09] <dholbach> Pygi: it's all i could do :)
[10:09] <Tm_T> infinity: I might try that too if I have gnome-terminal installed
[10:10] <Tm_T> as soon as my updates are downloaded and installed, so less than an hour
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[10:12] <dholbach> infinity: i can reproduce it - but the back trace looks weird
[10:12] <dholbach> *grmbl*
[10:12] <infinity> As long as you can reproduce it, I'm happy.
[10:12] <infinity> I'll leave it in your capable GNOMEy hands and go back to doing what I do best.
[10:13] <dholbach> so that's one of us happy :)
[10:13] <Pygi> hehe, so dholbach, it does *not* work on your computer ;) hehe ;)
[10:13] <dholbach> Pygi: i don't use strange geometry options :)
[10:14] <Pygi> hehe, see? ;) excuses, excuses ;) 
[10:14] <dholbach> i'm not awake enough to retort something :)
[10:14] <Pygi> heh ;)
[10:15] <Pygi> It'll get fixed, eventually ;)
[10:15] <sivang> dholbach: you got along with the lpi patches?
[10:16] <dholbach> yes, so far so good, but there are still some tarballs left
[10:16] <sivang> hi sabdfl 
[10:16] <sabdfl> hey sivang
=== sivang is sad to see lpint-bonobo slowly, but surely loosing grip into packages ;-)
[10:17] <ajmitch> evening
[10:18] <Pygi> mornin', mornin' ;)
[10:22] <sivang> dholbach: actually it's a good thing, it'd be good to see apps standartize on UIManager
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[11:01] <pitti> Kamion: odd, there are no debs for gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, just the source package...
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: hey
[11:02] <pitti> hi seb128 
[11:02] <Kamion> gfxboot-theme-ubuntu |      0.1.1 |        dapper | source, amd64, i386
[11:02] <Kamion> pitti: they're there
[11:02] <seb128> pitti: dpkg-reconfigure locales doesn't do anything now, what is the new way of changing locales settings from now?
[11:02] <pitti> Kamion: ah, ok. I looked at 0.1.0 in universe
[11:02] <Kamion> pitti: oh, yeah, I promoted it as you suggested
[11:02] <Kamion> (pre-review)
[11:02] <pitti> seb128: just install/remove the according language pack
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[11:03] <seb128> pitti: hum, so you force users to install a language-pack to generate a locale?
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: ATM yes
[11:04] <seb128> pitti: gedit upstream wanted to try a bug on their software with zh_CN, and they probably don't want to install <n>MB of language-pack for this ...
[11:04] <seb128> hum
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: if you have a good use case how it should be done differently?
[11:04] <seb128> dunno how the new locales work
[11:04] <seb128> but dpkg-reconfigure locales was nice
[11:04] <pitti> seb128: the langpacks ship and install/uninstall the locales now
[11:04] <seb128> that really sucks :/
[11:04] <pitti> so that we can manage them through rosetta
[11:05] <seb128> I've usually 10 locales or so on my box
[11:05] <seb128> but I don't want 10 language pack for sure
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: hm, but you are not the average case :)
[11:05] <seb128> right, but we have non average case upstream using Ubuntu too
[11:05] <pitti> seb128: anyway, if you need it, I can invent a way to manually intstall a locale
[11:06] <seb128> that would be nice
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[11:06] <seb128> I think it's quite common for people testing a bug to want to generate a locale without installing <n>MB of translations for it
[11:06] <pitti> Kamion: would a locales-all package help you for the installer?
[11:07] <pitti> Kamion: we wouldn't update locales-all post-release, but at least people could use additional locales
[11:07] <Kamion> pitti: not sure yet
[11:07] <Kamion> but quite possibly for build purposes at least; we wouldn't have the installer install it
[11:07] <Kamion> I've made the installer install the appropriate language pack just after installing the base system, BTW, if you didn't see
[11:08] <pitti> ah, cool
[11:08] <Kamion> probably need to tweak localechooser some more, but I think it'll do for now
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[11:15] <pitti> Kamion: does the gfxboot license require us to ship all the SuSE theme stuff? It blows up the deb quite considerably
[11:17] <Kamion> pitti: no, it just seemed reasonably useful; we should probably arrange to ship a prebuilt theme rather than the source
[11:17] <Kamion> certainly I think penguins.xcf is unnecessary
[11:17] <Kamion> (which is big)
[11:18] <pitti> I just wondered about > 1 MB for just the tools
[11:18] <pitti> Kamion: oh, wait, do we need to ship that deb on the CD?
[11:18] <pitti> it just looks like tools
[11:19] <pitti> nitpick: Suggests: s/kanotix-graphics/gfxboot-theme-ubuntu/ ?
[11:19] <Kamion> pitti: no, we don't
[11:19] <pitti> Kamion: ok, then it doesn't really matter; thanks
[11:19] <Kamion> pitti: yeah, that Suggests predates gfxboot-theme-ubuntu, I'll change it
[11:20] <Kamion> what happens is that the CD build process looks up the gfxboot-theme-ubuntu .deb in the archive and fishes the theme binary out of it, then dumps that in /isolinux/ on the CD
[11:20] <pitti> btw, that looks really cool - even with proper keymap support
[11:21] <Kamion> yeah, it's an unexpectedly nice system
[11:29] <Kamion> elmo: I've NEWed l-r-m, hopefully the right way this time round (i.e. mostly with lisa except where it bitched viciously about stuff in restricted/debian-installer). If that was wrong, let me know what I *should* be doing ...
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[11:31] <pitti> Kamion: I think I found some potential buffer overflows with malicious dictionaries with overly long entries
[11:31] <Kamion> in gfxboot?
[11:31] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. by tricking sb to run the tools on a malicious theme, you could probably run arbitrary code
[11:31] <pitti> yes
[11:32] <pitti> unchecked sprintf
[11:32] <pitti> into a statically sized buffer
[11:32] <pitti> it's not something that should immediately concern us
[11:32] <pitti> but eventually it should be fixed
[11:32] <Kamion> ok, I think a malicious theme could probably just run arbitrary code anyway :)
[11:32] <Kamion> but sure
[11:32] <Kamion> could you file a bug and I'll have a look?
[11:32] <pitti> Kamion: no, that's not what I mean
[11:32] <Kamion> oh, I see what you mean
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. I compile a theme as normal user in my normal system
[11:33] <Kamion> is this in mkbootmsg.c then?
[11:33] <pitti> and you give me a malicious theme
[11:33] <pitti> yes
[11:33] <Kamion> right
[11:33] <seb128> if I make nautilus Depending on beagle, will you people try to track me down or something? :p
[11:33] <Kamion> seb128: ayup
[11:33] <seb128> right, I'll mail ubuntu-devel about it
[11:33] <pitti> Kamion: line 1935 and ff.; it looks at least suspicious
[11:33] <Kamion> depends on the CD size change probably
[11:34] <seb128> is there an easy way to determine how much a package impact on the CD?
[11:34] <seb128> like a script doing this
[11:34] <Kamion> pitti: hm, yes
[11:34] <Kamion> seb128: germinate
[11:34] <Kamion> run it before and after, it has options to look at custom seeds you provide
[11:35] <seb128> k, I'll give it a try later, thanks
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[11:36] <pitti> Kamion: erm, sorry, line 1876
[11:36] <pitti> Kamion: anyway, I'll file a bug
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[11:38] <Kamion> yep, thanks
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[11:45] <seb128> elmo: could you sync GTK 2.8.9 from Debian?
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[11:52] <pitti> carlos: sorry to nag, but is there any ETA when rosetta will export tarballs again? I need to update the langpacks in the near future and would like to test rosetta again
[11:52] <carlos> pitti, let me ask for the staging status...
[11:54] <carlos> pitti, seems like the mirror is not being updated...
[11:56] <carlos> pitti, hmm, it could happen next week, but anyway I will try to move the language pack generation to production so we don't have this problem anymore...
[11:56] <pitti> carlos: given the chaos at the breezy release, it would be nice to get the process solid well before dapper release comes in sight
[11:56] <pitti> :)
[11:57] <carlos> yeah
[12:01] <\sh> hmm..don't we have today TB meeting?
[12:09] <doko> infinity, lamont: please requeue gcj-4.1 on amd64
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[12:14] <infinity> doko : Building.
[12:17] <\sh> first rule: never go out when you have a cold...it makes things worse
[12:18] <Nafallo> \sh: doh :-P
[12:18] <pitti> \sh: go swimming, it helps a lot
[12:18] <\sh> pitti: not with 39 Deg C fever
[12:19] <pitti> \sh: ok, right; it helps me when I just have a cold, but no fever (which is the common case)
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[12:21] <\sh> pitti: I hope it's gone later this week...just before my interview
[12:21] <pitti> \sh: with google? I wish you all the best for it!
=== pitti crosses fingers
[12:22] <\sh> *no comment* 
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[12:23] <\sh> pitti: *no comment* 
[12:24] <Kamion> was anyone planning to seed the server kernels?
[12:24] <Kamion> they might fit well in the ubuntu-server seeds
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[12:31] <sabdfl> Kamion: is a usb-boot image very different to a cd-boot live image?
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[12:35] <Kamion> sabdfl: well, we don't have any USB live images yet ...
[12:35] <Kamion> sabdfl: the way we do USB installation is to stick a netboot image on a USB stick and boot from that
[12:35] <sabdfl> Kamion: would it be tricky to make them?
[12:36] <Kamion> sabdfl: there's an alternative method as well if you have large enough sticks:
[12:36] <Kamion> sabdfl: a special image with somewhat different sets of kernel modules and a special udeb that looks for an ISO image as a file on the USB stick, loop-mounts it, and then proceeds from there roughly as if it were a CD
[12:37] <Kamion> sabdfl: it would be relatively straightforward in the hoary/breezy live CD, although we never actually got round to doing it and it would probably require 1GB sticks which weren't all that common at the time
[12:37] <sabdfl> are 1gb sticks reasonable now?
[12:37] <Kamion> sabdfl: in the dapper simplified live CD, I'm not sure, because we won't be able to take advantage of existing d-i components any more; Mithrandir would know more
[12:38] <Kamion> (that simplified live CD hasn't landed yet, but the code's there and it'll land in a couple of days)
[12:38] <sabdfl> ok, i'll ask Mithrandir about it when that is testable
[12:38] <sabdfl> thanks muchly
[12:39] <Kamion> sabdfl: certainly more so than they were
[12:39] <Kamion> sabdfl: random local computer store quotes 55 pounds
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[12:39] <infinity> seb128 / dholbach : I'm not entirely positive about this, but I thought I should give you fair warning that if you keep breaking ubuntu-desktop, Kamion might do Very Bad Things to you.
[12:39] <Kamion> I think when we did casper originally it was more like 200
[12:40] <Kamion> a lot of people still have 128/256MB sticks lying around, though
[12:40] <seb128> infinity: what is broken?
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[12:40] <Kamion> http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html
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[12:41] <Kamion> it's the usual gnome-{applets,control-center,panel,session,terminal} mess, on powerpc
[12:41] <sabdfl> erk. i just updated and got the new gnome bits (thanks seb128) is it safe to re-login?
[12:41] <seb128> sabdfl: should be yep
[12:41] <dholbach> sabdfl: why not?
[12:41] <Kamion> sabdfl: we're only talking about uninstallables here ...
[12:42] <seb128> Kamion: actually if elmo was doing sync in less than 1 day that would help
[12:42] <sabdfl> ok
[12:42] <sabdfl> seb128: why?
[12:42] <seb128> Kamion: GTK is known to be broken, I've uploaded 2.8.9 to Debian and asked for a sync yesterday and I'm still waiting
[12:42] <sabdfl> seb128: why no upload direct to ubuntu?
[12:42] <seb128> sabdfl: because we have no Ubuntu specific change and we do that to lower the sync work usually
[12:43] <seb128> I could make an artificial ubuntu version right
[12:43] <Kamion> gtk+2.0 is in sync, it should be autosynced
[12:43] <dholbach> sabdfl: and if the upload is broken, we're not the only ones to suffer from it :-p
[12:43] <seb128> Kamion: from experimental?
[12:43] <Kamion> oh
=== infinity slyly admits that he's done manual sync uploads before, when the urgency warranted it, by copying the pseudo-headers from a real sync.
=== infinity will never admit that in elmo's presense.
[12:46] <sabdfl> mvo: ping
[12:47] <Kamion> sabdfl: oh, installation *to* a USB drive
[12:47] <mvo> sabdfl: pong
[12:47] <Kamion> sabdfl: entirely different from installation *from* a USB drive
=== Gman- is now known as GmanAFK
[12:48] <sabdfl> Kamion: i thought he was asking about a USB Live
[12:48] <Kamion> he said "installation on"
[12:48] <seb128> Kamion: can we get a GTK sync now or should I go with an Ubuntu versionning for it?
[12:48] <Kamion> I think it's mostly just grub bug fixes and such
[12:48] <sabdfl> hmm... that would give you the same effect, would it not?
[12:48] <seb128> it breaks half on GNOME builds atm
[12:48] <sabdfl> you could boot off that installed image off a usb stick and voila? faster than live-cd?
[12:48] <Kamion> sabdfl: not if you wanted to keep your changes around, no
[12:48] <Kamion> only if you have no worthwhile data ;-)
[12:49] <sabdfl> ?
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[12:49] <Kamion> you can't save your documents unless you muck around with partitioning on the USB stick
[12:49] <Kamion> there's a valid use case for installation on USB stick, which is different from the (also valid) use case for running USB live
[12:49] <fabbione> that's scary.. some sticks really don't like partitioning
[12:49] <Kamion> fabbione: indeed
[12:50] <Kamion> seb128: go for an artificial Ubuntu version for now; I'm not doing syncs
[12:50] <seb128> k
[12:50] <lathiat> i saw someone get bootin gof a usb drive pretty good, main problem was waiting to mount / till the usb storage was detected
[12:50] <lathiat> the whole "waiting for device to settle" thing
[12:51] <Kamion> it may well be easier with the new udev, and grub 0.97
[12:51] <lathiat> i keep reading about this udev new order, is there a good email/page/blog someone wrote up exlaining that?
[12:51] <Kamion> powerpc USB installation is always going to be a bit tricky because finding the Open Firmware path to the device is just plain hard work
[12:52] <Kamion> lathiat: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-December/000028.html
[12:52] <lathiat> hrm must of missed that
[12:52] <lathiat> cheers
[12:52] <ogra_> and thre are the ubz specs as well ;) look at launchpad 
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[01:00] <herzi_x41> is it possible to use the post-update-note to tell information to other users? which command is needed for that?
[01:01] <mvo> herzi_x41: it is, every user who runs update-notifier will see the information
[01:01] <dholbach> herzi_x41: ask mvo, you have to deploy a file somewhere
[01:01] <Kamion> sabdfl: hmm, rereading, I sort of see what you mean
[01:02] <mvo> herzi_x41: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InteractiveUpgradeHooks
[01:02] <Kamion> sabdfl: I think that would be something best created by the installer rather than regarding it as a live image, though; the difference between an installed system and a live image is almost precisely that the build process for the latter doesn't attempt to make it bootable on its own without the aid of casper
[01:03] <Kamion> and the problems are mostly in making it bootable, so solving those would probably make both cases work anyway :-)
[01:03] <lathiat> there any specs about making xorg configuration regenerate itself if X fails to start and it isnt custom?
[01:04] <ogra> lathiat, see the head of the file ;)
[01:04] <lathiat> which file?
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[01:04] <ogra> xorg.conf
[01:05] <lathiat> oh, in dapper?
[01:05] <ogra> lathiat, in any system ...
[01:05] <Kamion> ogra: that's about you regenerating it manually, not about it regenerating itself
[01:05] <ogra> even in xfree86 there is a description
[01:05] <Kamion> it's a very different question
[01:05] <lathiat> yes im asking, e.g. you change video card
[01:05] <lathiat> x fails to start
[01:05] <lathiat> config is stock
[01:06] <ogra> ah, k... i missed that, right
[01:06] <lathiat> try a standard autodetect
[01:06] <Mithrandir> Kamion: VERY VERY SHINY. :-)
[01:06] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hmm?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> Kamion: the new live cd is so shiny it's not even fun.
[01:06] <lathiat> cus i know thats got quite a few people i know stuck for a while
[01:06] <Mithrandir> the menu stuff
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[01:06] <Kamion> hooray :)
[01:06] <lathiat> anything horribly broken in dapper atm?
[01:06] <Mithrandir> we should make the "loading linux kernel" more slick, though.
[01:07] <Mithrandir> it looks like it's from window 2.0 with the window 3.0 colour theme
[01:07] <Kamion> Mithrandir: yeah, noticed a few bugs there. Do you see the console messages showing up at the top of the screen in duplicated green?
[01:07] <pabs3> is there an equivalent of http://people.debian.org/~seppy/d-i/level1/POT/ for ubuntu/kubuntu?
[01:07] <Mithrandir> Kamion: my system booted to quickly for me to notice it.
[01:07] <janimo> Kamion, Mithrandir: so the dapper liveCD will no longer share much code with the installer because that has speed disadvantages?
[01:07] <Kamion> pabs3: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/installer-po/ is sort of there, but I've been talking with Carlos about how to get that moved into Rosetta, so it'll end up there
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[01:08] <aleXL>  Dunno how 2 xchat... sorry dholbach... d'u know how I can use the spell check f7 to run festival? I'm really green at this...
[01:08] <aleXL>  within oo2 or txteditor?
[01:08] <Kamion> janimo: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimplifiedLiveCD
[01:08] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and the live cd shouldn't care that it doesn't see my hard drive. :-P
[01:08] <ogra> Kamion, that'd be great, i had a bunch of people asking in #edubuntu yesterday about translations ...
[01:08] <pabs3> thanks Kamion 
[01:08] <Kamion> Mithrandir: huh?
[01:08] <dholbach> aleXL: i don't get what you are asking me
[01:09] <Mithrandir> Kamion: for some reason, it doesn't see my hard drive and complains.  Unsure what part of d-i that is, though.
[01:09] <dholbach> aleXL: what are you sorry for? 
[01:09] <Kamion> Mithrandir: that would be disk-detect
[01:09] <aleXL> porting festival into openoffice for spell checking (dyslexics)
[01:09] <ogra> dholbach, he wants to use festival alongside with the spellchecking in ooo2
[01:09] <aleXL> thought i'd knocked you off....
[01:10] <ogra> aleXL, you need to be a OP to knock people off ;)
[01:10] <dholbach> aleXL: you sent a ctcp ping and some time later xchat was out
[01:10] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ok, I see. We could maybe preseed disk_detect/module_select to avoid that
[01:10] <Kamion> disk-detect/module_select, sorry
[01:11] <Kamion> or cannot_find maybe
[01:11] <Kamion> could be done by casper-check
[01:11] <aleXL> dholbach: pinging's knocking on door, right? CTCP or external?
[01:11] <Kamion> probably doesn't make sense to work on it with simplified-live-cd round the corner though
[01:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: it'll go away post-flight, so..
[01:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: anyway, the new live cd works a lot better for me, I think I can get casper working in a little while.
[01:12] <dholbach> aleXL: you did a ctcp one, but anyway... sorry, no idea about festival
[01:12] <Mithrandir> Kamion: "boot from first hard disk" should probably clean the screen before chaining
[01:14] <Kamion> it doesn't? sorry, I didn't really actually try that much
[01:14] <Kamion> I think that ought to be syslinux' jobs
[01:14] <Kamion> job
[01:14] <Kamion> hm, or maybe not, I can see the argument for gfxboot clearing
[01:15] <Kamion> but there's no special case for that option AFAIK
[01:16] <Nafallo> *sigh* what's up with gnome today? lots of stuff seems to segfault.
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[01:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: ah, I see the problem; local_boot in syslinux should probably call gfx_done
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[01:21] <herzi_x41> dholbach, mvo: thanks
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=== pabs3 [n=pabs@dsl-202-72-168-241.wa.westnet.com.au]  has left #ubuntu-devel ["Don't] 
[01:30] <herzi_x41> mvo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/update-notifier/+bug/5752
[01:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, I see the text as well, on top.
[01:32] <mvo> herzi_x41: thanks
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[01:35] <tseng> jdong: do you have a document describing proper backports versioning for people putting stuff in the wild?
[01:38] <Mithrandir> fabbione: you're working on boot off usb, aren't you?
[01:38] <fabbione> Mithrandir: kinda.. it's blocked by detect root fs atm
[01:39] <Mithrandir> fabbione: ook.
[01:39] <Mithrandir> fabbione: just got a request about being able to install on USB pen drives and such.  Should I forward it to you?
[01:39] <fabbione> Mithrandir: it is possible to install on USB.. 
[01:39] <fabbione> that's not a problem
[01:40] <fabbione> the real issues are:
[01:40] <Mithrandir> fabbione: can you boot off it afterwards too? :-)
[01:40] <fabbione> - / device might not be there. (reason why there is a spec)
[01:40] <fabbione> - if you change position / will never be found (other spec)
[01:41] <fabbione> Mithrandir: my MOBO supports boot from USB
[01:41] <fabbione> if his/her mobo doesn't, he can still install on USB.. but it will never work..
[01:41] <fabbione> you know...
[01:42] <Kamion> Mithrandir: localboot display glitch fixed, thanks
[01:42] <Kamion> ROCK, USPLASH FIXED MY CRAPTOP
[01:42] <Kamion> er, not usplash
[01:42] <Kamion> KERNEL 640x400 FIXED MY CRAPTOP
[01:43] <Mithrandir> Kamion: \o/
=== Kamion sends eternal gratitude in infinity's direction
[01:44] <fabbione> ahha
[01:45] <Kamion> and the best bit is that it landed at almost exactly the same time as we got a video mode selection knob in the bootloader, so people can't even complain that they have less visible screen text in the installer now
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[01:50] <jdong_> elmo: can I get an ETA on those backports?
[01:51] <tseng> jdong_: do you have a document describing proper backports versioning  for people putting stuff in the wild?
[01:52] <jdong_> tseng: upstream~breezy0.x
[01:52] <jbailey> Kamion: Is there a TB mtg today?
[01:52] <tseng> eh, fair enough
[01:52] <jbailey> Kamion: When I looked yesterday, the agenda still had a date from 2 weeks ago, and the /topic didn't mention one.
[01:53] <tseng> jdong_: would i be correct in saying that ipod_0.3.5-0filefind.net0_i386.deb is wrong?
[01:53] <jdong_> tseng: absolutely that's wrong :)
[01:53] <tseng> ok, issuing clue
[01:53] <jdong_> LOL
[01:53] <tseng> thanks.
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[01:58] <Kamion> jbailey: I don't know; I'm not on the TB
[01:59] <jbailey> Kamion: Oh?  Sorry. I thought you were.
[01:59] <Kamion> jbailey: discussion yesterday suggested there would be I think, but you'd have to ask sabdfl/mdz/Keybuk
[01:59] <Kamion> er
[01:59] <Kamion> sabdfl/mjg59/Keybuk
[01:59] <jbailey> Two of those, anyway. =)
[01:59] <ogra> jbailey, there is one afaik ...
[02:00] <jbailey> ogra: Cool, thanks.
[02:00] <mjg59> There is, yes
[02:00] <jbailey> seb128: Ping?
[02:00] <seb128> jbailey: pong!
[02:00] <ogra> hmm, but the agenda needs cleanup ...
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[02:00] <jbailey> seb128: gnome-terminals seem to be hanging on me.  Is there any information I ought to collect for the bug report?
[02:01] <seb128> jbailey: dholbach did the update and is on it afaik
[02:01] <seb128> he was speaking backtrace with infinity some hours ago
[02:01] <seb128> dholbach: ping? :)
[02:01] <dholbach> pong :-(
[02:01] <dholbach> h:)
[02:01] <jbailey> Ah, cool.  I didn't see the bug when I looked quickly in bugzilla.
[02:01] <dholbach> jbailey: there's no bug report yet
[02:01] <dholbach> jbailey: what is your usecase?
[02:02] <jbailey> dholbach: Jeff Bailey wants to use gnome terminal for more that 90 seconds at a time.
[02:02] <jbailey> s/that/than/
[02:02] <jbailey> Or do you mean steps to reproduce?
=== jbailey hides
[02:02] <jbailey> =)
[02:02] <dholbach> hehe, yeah, do you do anything special?
[02:03] <dholbach> like   --geometry=100x87    in the launcher or whatever infinity uses ;)
[02:03] <jbailey> dholbach: No.  I'm lazy. =)  My only customisation is white on black.
[02:03] <dholbach> ok, will try that too
[02:04] <dholbach> thanks
[02:04] <ogra> wow, it crashes for me here with the edit profile dialog ....
[02:05] <ogra> but the term itself works fine ...
=== jbailey runs everything in screen today. =)
[02:05] <pitti> re
[02:05] <ogra> hmm, that as a one timer, now it works ...
[02:05] <\sh> ogra: hmmm...did someone removed the "edit profile dialog" because he thought the "idiots" don't need that? *run*
[02:06] <ogra> \sh, blblb :P
[02:06] <tepsipakki> kamion: should the new installer-initrd be mountable somehow? I haven't figured out how
[02:06] <tepsipakki> as a loop-fs
[02:06] <\sh> ogra: anyway...linus is wrong (tm)
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[02:06] <Kamion> tepsipakki: no, create a temporary directory, cd to it, zcat | cpio -id
[02:07] <Kamion> it's not a filesystem itself
[02:07] <StevenK> Mmmm, cpio
[02:07] <tepsipakki> ok
[02:07] <pitti> Kamion: could you please approve gtk+2.0_2.6.4-0ubuntu5_source.changes for hoary-updates? it's a security update for the current -updates version that I uploaded long ago
[02:07] <Kamion> pitti: I don't generally do -updates, but mdz's away, so ...
[02:07] <pitti> Kamion: can elmo do that?
[02:08] <pitti> Kamion: there are no debs, not sure whether the buildds don't see the source until it's approved
[02:09] <StevenK> pitti: Are you counting the days until warty stops getting security support? :-)
[02:09] <pitti> StevenK: doesn't make much of a difference, at that day dapper support begins :)
[02:09] <Kamion> pitti: I'll do it
[02:09] <StevenK> Heh
[02:09] <pitti> Kamion: thank you
[02:09] <Kamion> just waiting for apt-ftparchive to finish running
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=== jdong_ hates his internet connection
[02:13] <Kamion> pitti: done
[02:14] <pitti> merci
=== StevenK ponders begging people in #launchpad to fix/add his u.c address
[02:14] <Kamion> er, did I not add you to the ubuntumembers team?
[02:15] <StevenK> You did.
[02:15] <jdong_> hey, let's make today official bug everyone about everything day!
=== jdong_ starts with Backports :)
[02:15] <Kamion> oh, I did
[02:15] <Kamion> StevenK: it should be semiautomatic, I don't think #launchpad has anything to do with it
[02:15] <StevenK> Kamion: Apparently the script that generates the virtual alias table is offline due to refactoring.
[02:15] <Kamion> StevenK: I think it's in the admins' court (Znarl/elmo)
[02:15] <Kamion> oh, bleh
[02:16] <StevenK> Or so I read in a bug filed against LP.
=== Kamion beats the refactoring monkeys with a "keep it working" stick
[02:16] <tseng> jdong_: i sent some guy to backports with the hope he will agressively test and poke mono backports instead of publishing crappy ones on his webspace
[02:16] <StevenK> Kamion: So I beat up elmo or #launchpad? :-)
[02:16] <tseng> jdong_: he has a fairly complete set
[02:16] <Kamion> StevenK: probably #launchpad then, from what you said
[02:17] <ogra> eeek
[02:18] <ogra> tftpd-hpa shows up as ftp service in the service admin tool 
=== tseng gives ogra a carrot
[02:19] <ogra> :P
[02:19] <ogra> it should not say ft service, thats very confusing for users ...
[02:19] <Treenaks> tseng: no pony?
[02:19] <ogra> *ftp
[02:19] <tseng> Treenaks: that wouldnt be very useful in a regex, would it
[02:19] <Treenaks> tseng: maybe in perl rege
[02:19] <Treenaks> x
[02:20] <jdong_> tseng: yeah, I've talked to him briefly
[02:20] <tseng> jdong_: filefind or whatnot?
[02:20] <tseng> jdong_: i think he is rolling some of his own stuff as opposed to using dapper
[02:20] <jdong_> is elmo extremely busy recently?
[02:20] <StevenK> s/ recently//
[02:20] <tseng> is he ever not?
[02:20] <tseng> right.
[02:21] <jdong_> I mean, he's not done any backports builds since the 29th of nov
[02:21] <jdong_> and requesters are growing impatient
[02:21] <jdong_> In addition, I'm sure some of the packages the versions have chanced since request
[02:21] <jdong_> changed*
[02:22] <Kamion> AFAIK he's been sucked into writing ftpmaster tools for Launchpad in preparation for it taking over the archive, which is like massive trump-everything-priority
[02:23] <jdong_> Kamion: do you see any need/possibility to change the way Backports is being handled?
[02:23] <jdong_> i.e. have multiple people be able to push builds
[02:24] <tseng> jdong_: if the archive and buildd are controlled by LP it could be done by authorized groups
[02:24] <tseng> jdong_: we just need to get there.
[02:24] <jdong_> tseng:ETA?
[02:25] <tseng> "massive trump-everything-priority"
[02:25] <ogra> aside from that it would be nice to have someone from the BP team who could care for packages ... Mez is seen very rarely recently
[02:26] <jdong_> ogra: what would that take?
[02:26] <jdong_> MOTU? (here it comes...)
[02:26] <ogra> jdong_, going the MOTU path to be able to upoad changes and fixes
[02:26] <ogra> indeed ;)
[02:26] <tseng> ogra: we cant pull someone with mez's skillset out of our hat
[02:26] <jdong_> ogra: I've been seriously considering it
[02:26] <ogra> jdong_, that would be really cool ...
[02:27] <janimo> jdong_, go for it, there's a TB meeting tonight
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[02:27] <jdong_> janimo: what time?
[02:27] <StevenK> Whee.
[02:27] <ogra> since if you need to do changes to a package to be able to backport, your team has nobody currently
[02:27] <janimo> nobody knows, but today it is rumored
[02:27] <StevenK> I wanted to attend said TB meeting.
[02:27] <jdong_> lol
[02:27] <jdong_> I'll be back like 3PM EST to check up again
[02:27] <jdong_> got class right now
[02:27] <ogra> yes, someone should put a date on the agenda :)
[02:28] <StevenK> Yes. Someone Should.
[02:28] <jdong_> see ya later, guys
[02:28] <ogra> mjg59, Keybuk ?
[02:28] <StevenK> I hope it isn't on at 1am local time like the CC meeting was.
[02:28] <zakame> evening all! :D
[02:28] <zakame> when's the TB?
[02:28] <ogra> zakame, thats what we're wondering
[02:29] <\sh> damn..slept again
[02:29] <StevenK> 'At some point' is the best we've all come up with.
[02:29] <zakame> ogra: well, I got news from the wiki that it's not decided yet...
[02:29] <ogra> zakame, thats not *news* :)
=== StevenK curses his hiccups.
[02:30] <zakame> ogra: err, right :))
[02:30] <ogra> heh
[02:31] <ogra> StevenK, hey, we already are at the "its today" point at least ;)
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[02:31] <StevenK> It's today by what timezone?
[02:31] <ogra> apparently one the TB can bear 
[02:32] <StevenK> Like what, GMT-5?
[02:32] <ogra> all currently available TB members are in europe
[02:32] <StevenK> Wonderful. Leisurely afternoon TB meeting, meanwhile it's 2am in .au
[02:33] <StevenK> .. do I have to attend the TB meeting, like the CC meeting?>
[02:33] <StevenK> s/\>//
[02:33] <ogra> thats up to you ...
[02:34] <StevenK> Well, it's more with the CC meeting if you don't turn up, nothing happens wrt you. Is it the same thing for the TB meeting?
[02:34] <ogra> oh, janimo goes for main !
[02:34] <ogra> wow
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[02:34] <ogra> StevenK, yup
[02:35] <\sh> ogra: xubuntu needs it :)
[02:35] <janimo> yes
[02:35] <janimo> :)
[02:35] <ogra> if you want something from the TB, you should show up
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
=== ogra crosses fingers for janimo 
[02:35] <janimo> ogra, thanks :)
[02:38] <ogra> tseng, why do you apply to ubuntu-dev ? 
[02:38] <ogra> you are already in there
[02:38] <tseng> i was in coredev and motu
[02:38] <tseng> and noticed everyone else was in ubuntu-dev
[02:38] <ogra> and coredev is a member of ubuntu-dev
[02:38] <tseng> dunno what the difference is
[02:38] <tseng> (oh)
[02:39] <tseng> that explains it
[02:39] <ogra> coredev is main, ubuntu-dev is universe (MOTU)
[02:39] <zakame> hehe
[02:40] <pitti> doko: oowriter seems to be broken, it can't find /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin; any idea?
[02:41] <Kamion> jdong: multiple people> as tseng said
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=== StevenK wonders if libwnn6 in Dapper has gone.
[02:45] <StevenK> s/if/where/
[02:45] <doko> pitti: oowriter2
[02:46] <pitti> doko: yes, that's what I mean
[02:46] <thierry> seb128 : my malone bug 3947 should be rejected right?
[02:46] <doko> works for me
[02:46] <pitti> doko: it looks for /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin but there is only /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin.real
[02:47] <seb128> thierry: correct
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[02:49] <doko> pitti: not for me
[02:50] <pitti> doko: I'm on amd64, you?
[02:50] <pitti> doko: do you have a /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin.real?
[02:50] <pitti> doko: if you have soffice.bin, in which package is it?
[02:50] <doko> ahh, amd64 -> Mithrandir ;-)
[02:51] <doko> should be -core
[02:52] <pitti> /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin
[02:52] <pitti> umgeleitet durch ia32-libs-gtk zu: /usr/lib/openoffice2/program/soffice.bin.real
[02:52] <pitti> Mithrandir: (^ that's a diversion)
[02:52] <pitti> Mithrandir: but oowriter2 still looks for soffice.bin
[02:53] <Mithrandir> there should be a soffice.bin put in there
[02:53] <Mithrandir> do you have ia32-libs-gtk installed?
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, I haven't
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: I just aptitude install openoffice.org2
[02:54] <pitti> so the dependency is missing?
[02:54] <pitti> Mithrandir: btw, calling soffice.bin.real works just fine here, even without ia32-libs-gtk
=== Valandil [n=chrys@dslb-084-056-101-050.pools.arcor-ip.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[02:58] <Simira> any dates for distro-sprint yet?
[02:59] <Simira> official?
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[03:02] <Nafallo> baah, libopenal0 still wants libsmpeg0c2. rebuild anyone? ;-)
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[03:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: you probably had it installed in the past and there's a bug in the postrm, then.  Please file a bug.
[03:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: yes, I clean up my packges from time to time to save bandwidth, and aptitude dependency tracking could have killed it
=== rob^^^ is absolutely astonished that gnome's usability list managed to avoid a massive flamewar from Linus' posting. Kinda makes you feel all warm inside.
[03:12] <Keybuk> pitti: your sudo test thing was discussed at the last TB meeting, right?  You don't want to discuss it again today?
[03:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: done
[03:12] <pitti> Keybuk: it seems that my argumentation for supporting local sudo configuration didn't find any supporters, so, no
[03:13] <Keybuk> no you don't want to discuss it?
[03:13] <pitti> Keybuk: the current compromise works for the common default case and breaks for customizations, but it is safe to implement
[03:13] <Keybuk> ok
[03:13] <pitti> right, I don't plan to discuss it again, unless you want to?
[03:13] <Keybuk> just updating the agenda, it was never removed
[03:13] <pitti> oh, sorry
[03:14] <doko> Keybuk: why is there no python-docutils merge bug report?
[03:15] <Keybuk> doko: should there be?
[03:16] <mvo> Keybuk: while we are at MoM, the aptitude merge looks a bit odd
[03:16] <doko> Keybuk: last debian version at Sat, 27 Aug 2005
[03:16] <doko> so yes
[03:16] <Keybuk> mvo: looks fine to me
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[03:17] <seb128> infinity: could you kick eel2 build?
[03:17] <Keybuk> doko: oh, right, no .orig.tar.gz for it
[03:17] <Keybuk> doko: elmo's forgotten to fix that, I guess
[03:21] <Keybuk> dpkg-source: error: file python-docutils_0.3.7.orig.tar.gz has size 625773 instead of expected 679649
[03:21] <Keybuk> hmm
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[03:21] <Keybuk> looks like the two origs are different, mom can't process that
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[03:22] <jimygc> hi
[03:22] <jimygc> got a question, maybe anyone can help
[03:23] <jimygc> I'm programming an app through traditional c. How should I do if I want this app to not be able to have more than one instance on the system?
=== xxMEL0Nxx [n=ivaano@red-corp-201.130.135.84.telnor.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:24] <Gagatan> use a lockfile?
[03:24] <doko> Keybuk: anyway, filing a bug report for those cases would be useful
[03:24] <doko> we just miss these during merges
[03:24] <jimygc> I've been reading about semaphores and threads, which loos quite similar to what I need, as I might need as well to pass the first argument from the second one to a function of the first one
[03:25] <jimygc> yes gagatan, I've tought on that as well, I'm just asking myself how a proffesional handle this
[03:25] <Gagatan> jimygc: e.g. /var/run/<yourappnamelockfile> and test if it exist. You will have a problem with existing lockfiles if your app doesn't clean up 
[03:25] <jimygc> and what about of catching the first argument to be passed to a function of the existin instance?
=== jinty [n=jinty@115.Red-80-24-9.staticIP.rima-tde.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:27] <Keybuk> doko: what would the bug say?
[03:28] <jimygc> Gagatan?
[03:28] <Nafallo> Keybuk: "diffrent .orig.tar.gz in debian and ubuntu" ? :-)
[03:28] <Keybuk> Nafallo: then I'd get a hundred questions each week of "what do I do about it?"
[03:28] <doko> Keybuk: new version in debian, but cannot generate a diff due to differing .orig tarball's. please merge manually ...
[03:28] <Keybuk> anyway, mom doesn't know that
[03:28] <Nafallo> you don't get those already? :-)
[03:28] <Keybuk> it just knows "cannot generate a diff"
[03:29] <Keybuk> so you'd get a bug saying "Newer version in Debian that needs merging manually"
[03:29] <Keybuk> and that would be it
[03:29] <doko> yes, that seems to be ok
[03:29] <Nafallo> seems okey.
[03:29] <Keybuk> I'll look into that for dapper+1
=== ryanpg [n=ryanpg@c-24-13-248-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net]  has joined #ubuntu-devel
[03:29] <Nafallo> better than silence and no merged version :-)
[03:30] <Keybuk> I can generate a manual list a week before UVF for now
[03:30] <doko> Keybuk: can you give a list of these packages in a short time frame?
[03:30] <ryanpg> hi all, after a recent update, several gnome apps (alacarte being one) segfault with "gnome_program_init_paramv: assertion `nparams > 0' failed" know issue or "bugworthy"?
[03:31] <Nafallo> ryanpg: mvo looks in to it atm :-)
[03:31] <Keybuk> doko: for main, yes
[03:31] <Keybuk> that's easy
[03:32] <doko> that would be nice
[03:32] <mvo> Nafallo: seb128 has apparently already a solution
[03:32] <Keybuk> it would be "all outstanding merges" though
[03:32] <Keybuk> including those mom has processed
[03:32] <ryanpg> Nafallo, mvo cool
[03:32] <Nafallo> yay! :-)
[03:32] <Keybuk> which is why I was suggesting doing it when we turn off mom
[03:32] <Keybuk> so I can filter out those it has processed
[03:33] <doko> hmm, I just don't want to miss some updates, if it's too late one week before UVF
[03:34] <Keybuk> the list of things needing updates is easy to obtain
[03:35] <Keybuk> the list of things that mom has processed that version for is hard
[03:36] <Keybuk> a rough guess (things mom has never merged) would be:
[03:37] <Keybuk> bootchart, firefox, libmms, pgtcl, python-docutils, redland-bindings, vim, vino
[03:39] <Keybuk> at least two of those are indepandantly packaged
[03:39] <Keybuk> some of those might be just because mom is still running
[03:39] <Keybuk> I think vim only appeared today
[03:41] <Keybuk> ok
[03:41] <Keybuk> manually grepping that list out
[03:41] <Keybuk> the list of things that mom has never processed are: python-docutils and vino
[03:41] <Keybuk> oh, wait, vino is packaged separately
[03:41] <Keybuk> ok
[03:41] <Keybuk> python-docutils is the only one :p
[03:42] <Keybuk> (the primary reason I ignore those errors is that they do tend to sort themselves out if you just ignore them)
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[04:04] <pitti> jbailey: do we still need initrd-tools in main?
[04:04] <jbailey> lamont: Do you still need hppa and ia64 to boot, or can we do without that for a week or two?
[04:05] <jbailey> lamont: Martin's getting trigger happy. =)
[04:05] <pitti> Kamion: do you need dash-udeb? the current dash wants dietlibc, but I don't really want another libc in main just for that
[04:06] <pitti> Kamion: so I'd rather build it against glibc again
[04:06] <jbailey> There's a dash in klibc as of 1.1.3 as well.
[04:07] <seb128> mvo: back. About what?
[04:07] <Keybuk> jbailey: hmm, do they boot now?
[04:07] <jbailey> Keybuk: Yes.  AFAIK both produced usable dapper CDs.
[04:07] <Keybuk> if they do, I don't see how we can support them
[04:07] <Keybuk> because they don't boot anything like the real architectures
[04:07] <jbailey> Err, what?
[04:08] <jbailey> elilo's not that weird.
[04:08] <Keybuk> I assume the initrd doesn't use anything like the same scripts as initramfs
[04:08] <Keybuk> so the mounting of the root filesystem will be totally different
[04:08] <Kamion> pitti: dash-udeb is already in universe
[04:08] <Keybuk> plus udev won't be setup the same way
[04:08] <Keybuk> etc.
[04:08] <Kamion> and has been since warty
[04:08] <jbailey> Keybuk: They're still using 2.6.12
[04:08] <pitti> Kamion: ah, ok; so I'll build it against libc
[04:08] <jbailey> Keybuk: It's the same thing we've had all along.
[04:08] <Keybuk> jbailey: *blink*
[04:08] <Keybuk> uh, dude
[04:08] <Keybuk> if they're using 2.6.12, then they can't boot
[04:08] <Keybuk> because no modules will be loaded
[04:09] <Keybuk> unless they have everything compiled in
[04:09] <jbailey> Right, no hotplug anymore.
[04:09] <Keybuk> right
[04:09] <ogra__> i'm going mad ... how the hell should i test my isos if i cant brun them to disk ? grrr
[04:09] <pitti> ogra__: ?
[04:09] <Keybuk> ogra: mount them?
[04:09] <jbailey> pitti: Don't demote it to universe, morgue it instead I think.
[04:09] <ogra__> pitti: in dapper it doesnt work at all ...
[04:10] <pitti> jbailey: demote what?
[04:10] <pitti> jbailey: ah, initrd-tools?
[04:10] <jbailey> pitti: initrd-tools
[04:10] <jbailey> Right. =)
[04:10] <pitti> jbailey: how do I 'morgue' something?
[04:10] <Keybuk> "Dear Elmo, ..."
[04:10] <Kamion> the normal English verb is "remove"
[04:10] <pitti> ah, ok
[04:10] <ogra__> pitti: and apparently my only breezy box i have cant convince my dvd writer to blank the media ... worked on my lappie though
[04:11] <jbailey> Kamion: I don't think English actually has verbs.  There are just funnily conjugated nouns with implied meaning.
[04:11] <Kamion> jbailey: you should learn Lojban. :-_)
[04:11] <Kamion> s/_//
[04:11] <jbailey> Kamion: (I was actually surprised when I started studying for my GMAT that there is a format English grammar.  I had made it through all of my public education without ever hearing someone mention this.)
[04:12] <pitti> jbailey: I thought Noam Chomsky totally failed to write down a grammar for English?
[04:12] <pitti> jbailey: I mean, his hierarchy and his studies of formal languages are invaluable and interesting, they just failed to fulfil his original goal :)
[04:12] <Nafallo> ogra: works for me. are you using up-to-date dapper or is your /dev/hd? owned by group floppy? :-)
[04:14] <Keybuk> Nafallo: there appears to be a kernel bug wrt dvd writers
[04:14] <ogra__> Nafallo: its a usb DVD writer 
[04:14] <Nafallo> oh
[04:14] <ogra__> the odd thing is that it doesnt work in breezy either now ...
[04:15] <mvo> what would be a good (and common) 3rd party repository? I'm looking for some to test changes to gnome-app-install
[04:15] <Keybuk> ogra: are you sure that your dvd writer isn't broken? :p
[04:15] <Nafallo> opera? skype? people.ubuntu.com? :-)
[04:15] <jbailey> pitti: I've never read any of his work.  Neat website, though.
[04:15] <pitti> jbailey: we already got to know him in the first semester
[04:16] <pitti> 'Basics of theoretical computer science'
[04:16] <Kamion> mvo: http://people.ubuntu.com/~jbailey/snapshot/bzr/ ?
=== mvo slaps forehead
[04:17] <jbailey> *lol*
[04:17] <mvo> Kamion: thanks :) maybe I should have taken a look into my own sources.list before asking stupid^W questions
=== jbailey would be curious to see the logs on that repo.
[04:18] <jbailey> I'd always assumed that noone used it until I broke it one day. =)
[04:18] <Nafallo> hehe
[04:18] <mvo> jbailey: how many angry mails did you get on that day?
[04:19] <pitti> mvo: do you happen to know the bug number of 'gdm must be reloaded to see new locales'? I can't find it
[04:19] <jbailey> mvo: Like 30, and was swamped enough on IRC that I wound up doing that instead of working for most of that day.
[04:19] <pitti> mvo: ah, 16678 (langpack-selector changelog); sorry
[04:20] <mvo> pitti: and it's assigned to me
=== mvo cries
[04:20] <Nafallo> \sh: dude. ALT+F# works in XChat as well :-)
[04:20] <mvo> jbailey: haha, nice!
[04:20] <pitti> mvo: with the change to locales that I'll upload soon you should be able to close it
[04:20] <Kamion> ok, FWIW, we're switching to SimplifiedLiveCD for Flight 2, 'cos the alternatives are Too Hard
[04:20] <pitti> mvo: oh, well, it'll still break gdmflexiserver
[04:20] <Kamion> infinity/Mithrandir/me are coordinating that change now
[04:21] <Kamion> well, I'm testing first before we commit to it
[04:21] <Kamion> but it seems likely at this point
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[04:21] <Nafallo> Kamion: time to start testing those cds then? :-)
[04:22] <Kamion> Nafallo: feel free to test the current install CDs, but there is no point at all in testing live CDs yet
[04:22] <\sh> Nafallo: which is the 2nd way of doing something 
=== ogra__ cries 
[04:22] <ogra__> nothing works :(
[04:23] <pitti> ogra__: if it helps you, for me neither; the desktop is falling apart into pieces today
[04:23] <ogra__> pitti: i'm on breezy currently
[04:23] <ogra__> and things that worked on my laptop before i upgraded it to dapper seem not to work on my desktop 
[04:24] <ogra__> and i'm out of media, so i need to blank it first 
[04:24] <Nafallo> Kamion: I'm rather okey with my current install but will be happy to try the new livecds :-). any estimation about when a good .iso is made? :-)
[04:24] <ogra__> but i only get illegal request errors from cdrecord and dvdrecord
[04:24] <Kamion> Nafallo: no, not yet
[04:24] <Kamion> please don't "are we there yet" right now
[04:24] <Kamion> too busy :)
[04:25] <Nafallo> hehe, just tell me when it's time then :-)
[04:25] <Nafallo> ogra: when I got those I called tech. support and explained that the drive would be totally broken in a couple of days. they sent me a new one right away ;-).
[04:26] <Nafallo> ogra: but hey! that was Targa/Lidl ;-)
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[04:33] <ogra_thin> unbelivable ...
[04:34] <ogra_thin> n-c-b can blank and write to the disk, cdrecord and dvdrecord both cant
[04:34] <zakame> ogra_thin: er?
=== ogra_thin yays for gnome 
[04:35] <zakame> wow
[04:35] <ogra_thin> ah, my mistake
[04:36] <ogra_thin> i didnt try growisofs ...
[04:36] <ogra_thin> thats what n-c-b apparently uses 
[04:36] <Nafallo> n-c-b?
[04:37] <Nafallo> ah nautilus...
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[04:48] <jdong_> I see the TB meeting has a time now :)
[04:52] <janimo> ogra_ can't you use qemu to test the images?
[04:53] <doko> ogra_thin ? that's a contradiction ... ;-P
[04:53] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, tmpfs for /var/run? Happy package fixing :)
[04:53] <pitti> Keybuk: many packages create a /var/run/package and rely on it
[04:53] <pitti> Keybuk: I fixed some in the past, but I'm sure that there are more
[04:54] <ogra_thin> doko, you mean the nick 
[04:54] <ogra_thin> heh
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[04:56] <jdong_> would it be a bad idea for me to put the Backports situation up for discussion on the Tech Board?
[04:57] <jdong_> that is the right place to bring it up, right?
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[05:00] <pitti> lamont: xdelta does not really look well maintained in Debian - is it a package we could safely put into main?
[05:01] <Kamion> pitti: cupsys-driver-gimpprint fails to install from a current i386 install CD
[05:01] <Kamion> "cupsd: Child exited on signal 15"
[05:01] <pitti> Kamion: ah, it's *only* i386? That might explain why it works for me
[05:01] <Kamion> could be because the locale isn't generated (bug which I'll fix in a moment), but then again maybe not
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[05:01] <Kamion> I have no idea if it's only i386, haven't tested the others
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[05:07] <pitti> Kamion: I'll try it in a chroot, but I need to create one first, so it'll take me a bit
[05:08] <Kamion> thanks
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[05:17] <zakame> elmo: good evening! please sync meld from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes ok. Thanks! :)
[05:17] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, I'm aware of the need for a mkdir -p in a lot of init scripts
[05:17] <pitti> Keybuk: I agree to you that it is the right thing to do, though
[05:18] <Keybuk> well, it's the only thing to do fwict
[05:18] <Keybuk> we need to have somewhere to put pid files
[05:18] <Keybuk> and we're starting far more things before the root fs is read/write now
[05:18] <Keybuk> things like dhcp ;)
[05:19] <jbailey> Is gdm there yet? =)
[05:19] <pitti> Keybuk: I already fixed /var/run mkdir for dhcp :)
=== jbailey keeps thinking that it would be interesting to hack gdm such that the box in the middle of the screen got replaced with the usplash_write text window.
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[05:20] <jbailey> And then do your 2-seconds-to-gdm hack.  Watch along there for a while and then it gets replaced with your login prompt.
[05:20] <pitti> jbailey: ... or with a tail -f /var/log* for the geeks :)
[05:20] <pitti> log/* even
[05:20] <jbailey> pitti: Right.  For people who want text terminals, it could be an integrated gnome-terminal widget. =)
[05:21] <pitti> heh
[05:21] <jbailey> But something ISTR Linspire doing really well in the demo at Debconf2 was that it was reasonably high res graphics from the beginning as if it were already in X.
[05:21] <jbailey> Max-like.
[05:21] <jbailey> Mac, even.
[05:21] <pitti> o links: links
[05:21] <pitti>    [Reverse-Build-Depends: dictionaries-common] 
[05:21] <pitti> WTH?
[05:21] <pitti> people seem to use all kinds of crazy build deps
[05:22] <HiddenWolf> pitti, isn't it obvious, it's used for spellchecking in the changelog ;)
=== HiddenWolf ducks
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[05:24] <Nafallo> lol
[05:24] <lamont> pitti: xdelta is pretty much unmaintained.  there's an xdelta3, totally incompatible with its predecessors, which has never been pacakged.
[05:24] <pitti> lamont: two ttf font packages need it as a build dep
[05:25] <pitti> lamont: they have binary patches in debian/ and apply them; pretty crazy...
[05:25] <lamont> that's just plain scary
[05:25] <pitti> lamont: I already rejected the package, FWIW
[05:25] <lamont> pitti: you're welcome to upload it to debian making yourself the maintainer... :-)
=== lamont would reject it for main as well.
[05:26] <pitti> lamont: no thanks, fabbione already tricked me into becoming an apache 1.3 uploader
=== pitti does not want another crappy package  in his DDPO
[05:29] <lamont> hehe
[05:31] <seb128> lamont: hi.did you figure what is wrong with glib? is the suse patch I pointed wrong?
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[05:34] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync mysql-dfsg-5.0 into our universe? eventually we want to convert everything to 5.0 and drop 4.0 and 4.1
[05:37] <Nafallo> hmm
[05:38] <Nafallo> elmo: could you sync beecrypt (ubuntu override okey) or will this request have to come from a core developer? :-)
[05:41] <lamont> seb128: been slammed with assigned tasks - haven't actually looked yet.
=== lamont heads for the office
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[05:51] <ivoks> am... there is one package (kdevelop3) that is blocking whole kde
[05:51] <ivoks> it needs only rebuild
[05:51] <ivoks> is there any reason not to do that?
[05:52] <Riddell> ivoks: nope, we just need to politely poke infinity I think
[05:52] <ivoks> Riddell: oh, ok
[05:52] <Riddell> infinity: please clear dep-wait on kdevelop3
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[06:03] <fabbione> hmm i think we can demode dash in universe now
[06:03] <pitti> fabbione: several packages still depend on it
[06:03] <fabbione> afaik the only reason why it was in main was for initrd-tools
[06:03] <fabbione> pitti: uh? i just purged it and only initrd-tools was complaining
[06:03] <Kamion> fix hppa/ia64 kthxbye
[06:04] <fabbione> ah right
[06:04] <Kamion> initrd-tools is still in dapper for those
[06:04] <pitti> fabbione: initrd-tools, gcc-4.0, gcj-4.0, linda, localechooser
[06:04] <Kamion> oh, stupid localechooser build-dep, I'll kill that with my next upload
[06:04] <Kamion> it's only for syntax-checking
[06:04] <Kamion> linda's probably similar
[06:05] <fabbione> pitti: not according to apt-cache rdepends.. i don't see gcc or gcj listed...
[06:06] <pitti> fabbione: I checked with melanie -R
[06:07] <Kamion> fabbione: rdepends doesn't list build-deps
[06:07] <fabbione> oh right...
[06:07] <fabbione> damn B-D
[06:07] <fabbione> who needs them anyhow :)
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[06:08] <Keybuk> Kamion: there's no particular reason for initrd-tools to be in main, those ports are broken anyway because they still don't have a .15 kernel
[06:08] <fabbione> Keybuk: hmm yes they do
[06:09] <Keybuk> they do?  then jbailey lied
[06:09] <jbailey> Keybuk: In a working state?
[06:09] <fabbione> lftp ports.ubuntu.com:/ubuntu-ports/pool/main/l/linux-source-2.6.15
[06:09] <jbailey> I thought they weren't generally working because of non-function initramfs-tools
[06:09] <jbailey> (lagging phone)
[06:09] <Keybuk> no idea, I don't care about either of them
[06:10] <fabbione> it shows me both hppa and ia64
[06:10] <Keybuk> we shouldn't have initrd-tools in main
[06:10] <fabbione> Keybuk: i think ia64 is almost fixed
[06:10] <fabbione> or fixed
[06:10] <fabbione> it's only hppa lagging that iirc
[06:10] <fabbione> let's ask lamont when he is back
[06:10] <Keybuk> the initrd won't start udev, or mount the root filesystem correctly, etc.
[06:11] <fabbione> ok
[06:11] <fabbione> new kernel
[06:11] <fabbione> brb
[06:11] <fabbione> (hopefully)
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[06:12] <persia> Could anyone recommend where I should file a bug on linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15?  It's not registered in Malone.
[06:13] <Keybuk> bugzilla
[06:13] <persia> Keybuk: Thank you.
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[06:16] <ogra__> damn
[06:17] <ogra__> nfs booting is totally broken it seems
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[06:19] <fabbione> seb128, dholbach: ping?
[06:20] <dholbach> fabbione: pong
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[06:20] <seb128> dholbach: pong
[06:20] <fabbione> dholbach: i just finished to upgrade to dapper... and there is a "Network Servers" on my desktop.. it wasn't there before...
[06:20] <fabbione> i do i kill it
[06:21] <seb128> fabbione: gconftool-2 -t bool -s /apps/nautilus/desktop/network_visible false
[06:22] <fabbione> seb128:  thanks.. is that going to be the default for dapper or are you going to kill it in the pkg?
[06:22] <seb128> will be switching with next upload
[06:22] <fabbione> ok thanks
[06:22] <seb128> np
[06:23] <dholbach> is that too confusing for our users? *duck*
[06:23] <fabbione> dholbach: eheh 
[06:27] <pitti> fabbione: btw, how well does your airport extreme work by now?
[06:27] <fabbione> pitti: it doesn't yet
[06:28] <fabbione> i managed to see a few pkts going between my AP and the card. that's it
[06:28] <fabbione> right now i am back to breezy because i need a stable laptop for thursday
[06:28] <mjg59> Works reasonably for me
[06:28] <fabbione> to make a presentation
[06:28] <mjg59> I should grab the latest build and test it again
[06:29] <pitti> mjg59: but you don't test it on ppc, or do you?
[06:29] <mjg59> pitti: Not yet, no
[06:29] <mjg59> But other people have had some success on ppc
[06:29] <pitti> I'd be interested in getting a sane wireless on the iBook
[06:29] <pitti> but it's good to know - up to a month ago, I hadn't even think about the possiblity of buying an AE
[06:30] <mjg59> My PPC is my mail server, so I'd prefer not to test experimental drivers on it
[06:30] <mjg59> (It's running off USB wireless right now)
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[06:34] <fabbione> mjg59: ah that might be why it works for you.. i am on ppc
[06:35] <pitti> Keybuk: I want to update libsysfs to 2.0 - will that knowingly break udev?
[06:35] <pitti> oh, udev doesn't seem to use libsysfs
[06:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: it has its own copy, iirc
[06:36] <Keybuk> pitti: nope, won't affect it at all
[06:36] <pitti> ok
[06:36] <pitti> Keybuk: out of interest, why does udev use its own copy?
[06:37] <Keybuk> afaik the version in udev is always newer than the released version
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[06:38] <Keybuk> or they could be just majorly divergent trees
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[06:39] <ogra> woah, thats was an adventure ....
[06:40] <sabdfl> ogra: ?
[06:40] <ogra> Keybuk, infinity the initramfs cant nfsmount any rootfs in ltsp anymore ? 
[06:41] <ogra> sabdfl, if you do an i386 install on a amd64 machine that has already a system on it, the existing system isnt in grub ... and chrooting from i386 to a mounted amd64 partition fails with bash exec format errors 
[06:42] <ogra> was quite exciting to get into my system again :)
[06:42] <ogra> Keybuk, did anything change in the nfs code ? i only get rootserver=0.0.0.0 on the thin clients
[06:43] <ogra> pitti, thanks for gnome-screensaver :)
[06:44] <pitti> ogra: you're welcome
[06:45] <pitti> Keybuk: oh, libsysfs changes soname - I guess I wait with that until after flight-2
[06:45] <pitti> erm, Kamion ^
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[06:46] <mjg59> Robot101: Hello?
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[06:46] <Robot101> hi
[06:47] <mjg59> Robot101: So it turns out that at_console is basically what we want for dbus crack
[06:47] <mjg59> Robot101: Suse have a modified dbus that uses resmgr rather than pam_console for that
[06:47] <mjg59> So it sounds like the semantics are going to vary
[06:48] <Robot101> you're going to pack your dbus full of grade A crack?
[06:48] <mjg59> Robot101: That's what I'd like to do
[06:48] <mjg59> Now I just need to convince pitti
[06:48] <mjg59> pitti: Hello :)
[06:48] <Robot101> and drive it across the border out of columbia? :)
[06:48] <pitti> hm?
[06:48] <mjg59> pitti: the at_console security policy in dbus is useless in Ubuntu
[06:48] <pitti> right, we don't use pam_console
[06:48] <mjg59> How would you feel about helping make it useful? :)
[06:49] <pitti> what is resmgr?
[06:49] <mjg59> pitti: Suse thing that does sort of pam_console stuff, but also rather more crack
[06:49] <pitti> even *more* crack than  pam_console? :)
[06:50] <mjg59> One of its features is a helper running with access to device nodes. You ask it for a device, it checks if you're authorised, opens it and passes you the filehandle
[06:50] <mjg59> I'm not suggesting that :)
[06:50] <Robot101> could we just use utmp or something, or am I being dense?
[06:50] <pitti> hm, that sounds like a replicated kernel permission system
[06:50] <Kamion> pitti: yep
[06:50] <Robot101> wow that *is* crack
[06:50] <mjg59> For a sensible scenario (and to avoid fast user switching fun), we need to know user->vt mappings
[06:50] <pitti> mjg59: access to devices like acpi stuff?
[06:51] <mjg59> pitti: No, like /dev/cdrom
[06:51] <pitti> mjg59: ah, fgconsole without suid root for X?
[06:51] <mjg59> pitti: Uhm. No.
[06:52] <mjg59> pitti: I don't really care about the filehandle stuff, we just solve that with groups
[06:52] <Kamion> uh
=== mvo goes to play hockey
[06:52] <Kamion> surely the filehandle stuff is there to work around the lack of revoke() in the kernel
[06:52] <Kamion> groups aren't a solution to something you might want to revoke later
[06:52] <mjg59> Kamion: Not really, since I don't think it actually revokes them
[06:53] <mjg59> But it stops you leaving a sgid app to do stuff later
[06:53] <pitti> why would we want to controll access to /dev/cdrom with something different than a group in the first place?
[06:53] <mjg59> pitti: We don't. That's an entirely separate sidepoint (you asked what resmgr did)
[06:53] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:53] <pitti> sorry
[06:53] <mjg59> Heh
[06:53] <mjg59> Ok
[06:53] <pitti> I'm still a bit unclear about what we are trying to achieve
[06:54] <mjg59> We need infrastructure to tie VTs to users
[06:54] <mjg59> Then we just change the at_console code in dbus to check that rather than looking for pam_console crap
[06:54] <pitti> I don't understand that part; what's wrong with looking at /dev/ttyN?
[06:54] <mjg59> pitti: Because that's useless in the X case
[06:54] <mjg59> X owns the TTY, and it's running as root
[06:54] <pitti> ah, ok
[06:55] <mjg59> So in the at_console case, we check if the user sending the message is the one who's at the foreground console
[06:55] <Robot101> random idea: add an interface on the system bus daemon itself which, security policy permitting, gdm could use to update a cache?
[06:55] <mjg59> Then we can switch g-p-m back to using hal for triggering suspend
[06:56] <mjg59> Robot101: Seems like unnecessary complexity
[06:56] <mjg59> And we don't want to tie it to gdm
[06:56] <Robot101> it could be org.freedesktop.DBus.TellTheSystemBusAboutWhoIsAtTheConsole :P
[06:57] <mjg59> Easiest thing I've thought of:
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[06:57] <PupenoL> Hello.
[06:57] <PupenoL> I have created a kernel module package with module-assistant (zaptel-module), my problem is that it ends on /lib/modules/2.6.12 instead of /lib/modules/2.6.12-10-686/, any ideas ?
[06:57] <mjg59> 1) Get GDM/KDM/whatever to stick the username in a file 
[06:57] <mjg59> 2) Get the DM to pass that filename to the X server
[06:57] <mjg59> 3) Get the X server to write the VT number it gets in there
[06:58] <mjg59> PupenoL: This isn't a support channel, but it's because you're not setting EXTRAVERSION in the build
[06:59] <pitti> hm, that sounds hackish, but it should work
[06:59] <mjg59> Beagle is still broken
[06:59] <PupenoL> mjg59: is that an environment variable that module-assistant can pick up ? (I know about the kernel variable, but supousedly module-assistant should work with the packaged kernel, and not a modified one, maybe my own package is the problem).
[06:59] <mjg59> PupenoL: No idea, I'm afraid
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[07:00] <mjg59> tseng: Around?
[07:00] <PupenoL> any other channel you'd recommend ?
[07:00] <pitti> Keybuk: do you have an idea why /proc/sys/net/ipv4/ip_forward is not controlled by /etc/network/options any more?
[07:00] <pitti> mjg59: so we would end up with a world-readable, root-writable map X console -> user?
[07:01] <mjg59> pitti: Yes
[07:01] <pitti> mjg59: wouldn't that break sudo and the like?
[07:01] <mjg59> pitti: Then the message will be coming from root
[07:02] <mjg59> I can't think of a use case that that actually breaks
[07:02] <pitti> corner cases, as always
[07:02] <pitti> sudo -u joe app
[07:03] <pitti> I do that pretty often
[07:03] <pitti> but not for PM control
[07:03] <mjg59> pitti: I think that's an impossible to solve case
[07:03] <mjg59> The point of at_console is to say "Is this user on the console"
[07:03] <pitti> I agree
[07:03] <pitti> mjg59: btw, can the output of 'who' be forged in any way?
[07:03] <pitti> $ who
[07:03] <pitti> martin   :0           2005-12-13 15:01
[07:04] <pitti> that looks exactly like what you want
[07:04] <mjg59> pitti: No, we need the VT
[07:05] <pitti> ah, right, ssh -X...
[07:05] <mjg59> pitti: Uh, no - :0 doesn't tell us what VT something is on
[07:05] <mjg59> And fgconsole gives us a VT number
[07:05] <pitti> do you actually need the particular VT number?
[07:05] <mjg59> Yes
[07:05] <mjg59> Since that's what defines who's on the console
[07:05] <pitti> mjg59: hm, why not create a suid wrapper around fgconsole then?
[07:06] <pitti> ah, crap, no
[07:06] <pitti> just forget that
[07:06] <mjg59> pitti: Because that only tells us what the foreground console, not which X display it is
[07:06] <mjg59> tseng: The beagle dependency on firefox isn't tight enough
[07:06] <mjg59> ** (best:31246): WARNING **: Missing method chmod in assembly /usr/lib/beagle/Util.dll, type Mono.Unix.Native.Syscall
[07:06] <mjg59> Cool!
=== mjg59 upgrades mono as well
[07:09] <pitti> mjg59: hm, so 'who' tells me that 'martin' is at X server :0, and 'ps aux' tells me that there is a local X server for :0 at console vt7; but I guess that's too unreliable?
[07:10] <mjg59> pitti: That's based on the command line from X, yeah?
[07:10] <pitti> right
[07:10] <pitti> as I said, unreliable
[07:10] <mjg59> Yeah
[07:10] <pitti> works in the default case, though
[07:10] <pitti> and X certainly has a default if no vt is specified
[07:10] <Robot101> what if the X server is on a different box to the login session? :D
[07:11] <pitti> mjg59: btw, I don't question that you have thoroughly thought about that problem, I just like to understand why we can't use the alternatives :)
[07:11] <mjg59> Robot101: The user isn't at the console
[07:11] <Robot101> mjg59: he is on the X server's machine though
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[07:12] <pitti> Robot101: there wouldn't be a local X server with the same DISPLAY
[07:12] <mjg59> Robot101: But that's not the machine that the dbus signal would be sent to
[07:12] <Robot101> mjg59: assuming you've trunked the system bus over X or something :P
[07:12] <mjg59> Robot101: Once that's done, we'll worry about it
[07:12] <pitti> Robot101: the existance of an X process with the 'who' display number tells us that this login is local, and the command line tells us the vt
[07:12] <pitti> oh, phone
[07:13] <pitti> re
[07:13] <mjg59> pitti: There's potential raciness
[07:13] <mjg59> The user could be on a different vt, but start an X server with arguments that make it look like he's on the foreground one
[07:14] <mjg59> If the pids have wrapped around, we could hit that first
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[07:14] <pitti> mjg59: but then that X server would not run as root (if it's possible to run an X server as normal user at all)
[07:14] <mjg59> pitti: X is suid
[07:14] <seb128> Kamion: I've uploaded a new evolution-data-server, if you could accept it/promote the new binaries (soname change for 2 libs)
[07:14] <mjg59> And you can run it if Xwrapper has been configured accordingly
[07:15] <mjg59> Which might be a reasonable thing to do, under certain circumstances
[07:15] <mjg59> We can't trust the command line of an unrelated process for security-critical cases
=== Amaranth wonders how a kernel seems to have fallen out of main
[07:19] <Keybuk> pitti: yeah, it was deprecated in Debian so I decided just to drop it
[07:19] <Keybuk> pitti: use /etc/sysctl.conf
[07:20] <Kamion> seb128: ugh, this is a bad time for soname changes, I'm trying to sort out a CD release
[07:20] <Keybuk> pitti: I haven't got around to the migration script yet, I have it written, but is gonna upload with the rest of s-b
[07:21] <seb128> Kamion: that will be sorted quickly, one lib has not rdepends out of evo, and the other need a few rebuild
[07:22] <Kamion> (underlying cause already fixed, that is)?
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[07:22] <Kamion> er
[07:22] <Kamion> quickly == 30 minutes?
[07:22] <seb128> hum, no, new evo following, rather 1-2 hours
[07:23] <seb128> I guess that you can block it the time to do the CD
[07:23] <Kamion> yeah, I probably will
[07:23] <seb128> just trying to get moving on GNOME 2.13.3 because I want to get that done and plugins for gstreamer0.10 uploaded this week
[07:24] <Kamion> sure, I've been hammering away at this release for days and just keep on hitting roadblocks :-/
[07:24] <Keybuk> I hope I'm not responsible for too many of them :)
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[07:44] <shaya> strange thing, linux-restricted changelog says fglrx will crash 2.6.15, but I have the exact opposite situation, regular ati driver hangs my t42p, while fglrx works fine (besides for now XV)
[07:52] <dholbach> infinity: if you could give the new gnome-terminal (once it's build) a spin, i'd be happy to hear your feedback
[07:53] <mdke> Diziet, *nudge*
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[07:54] <Diziet> mdke: Hello.  Just off for a call of nature.  Back in 2.
[07:54] <mdke> ok
[07:54] <Kamion> damnit, installation fails due to the network not coming up and something being wrong with archive-copier (I guess)
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[07:56] <Diziet> mdke: Back.
[07:57] <Diziet> Thanks for your mail, which is a nice explanation.
[07:57] <mdke> Diziet, hope that cleared it up a bit
[07:57] <mdke> Diziet, so what is the position on the firefox side, do you know?
[07:58] <Diziet> So I think from what you say that BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation probably didn't happen.
[07:58] <Diziet> I haven't looked at it myself (the changes aren't in the ffox package as it happens).
[07:58] <mdke> Diziet, well it certainly didn't happen from the ubuntu-docs side
[07:58] <Diziet> Hrm.
[07:58] <mdke> Diziet, i guess it's in the firefox language packs?
[07:58] <mdke> jbailey, around?
[07:59] <mdke> Diziet, but we could make it happen :)
[07:59] <jbailey> mdke: Laggy as always.
[08:00] <mdke> jbailey, ok, if you have time, we're having a quick discussion of BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation
[08:00] <Diziet> mdke: Yes, it could be, but if so then the .html wouldn't be there and it wouldn't find the file.
[08:01] <mdke> Diziet, well shall I just try building a package with the files and see if it works on my system?
[08:01] <Diziet> I wonder if this is related to http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20763.  (It seems unlikely, but ...)
[08:01] <Diziet> mdke: It seems unlikely to work.
[08:01] <mdke> Diziet, ah right
[08:01] <Diziet> ff has no machinery for looking first for one file and then falling back to another.
[08:02] <Diziet> That's the thing that we ought to do for localised start page in dapper.
[08:02] <jbailey> mdke: Is there a summary pag,e or is the discussion here?
[08:02] <Diziet> So I would say, yes, please ship the .html files and I may be able to make it work.
[08:02] <mdke> Diziet, but the individual firefox lang packages specify a separate home page i suppose?
[08:02] <mdke> specify/are able to specify
[08:02] <mdke> jbailey, yeah, that page on the wiki, i think you wrote it ;)
[08:03] <Diziet> mdke: They are supposed to, yes.
[08:03] <Diziet> But if the ubuntu-doc doesn't ship them, and they do specify them, then ff is broken in those locales.
[08:03] <mdke> Diziet, so to make it work we'd have to ship the html, then you'd have to alter those firefox langpacks?
[08:03] <mdke> Diziet, well it certainly isn't broken, it works
[08:03] <Diziet> (excuse me if I seem a bit distracted; I'm having an spi board mtg <--- just over there.)
[08:03] <mdke> np
[08:04] <Diziet> But you don't get a German page, obviously.
[08:04] <mdke> Diziet, no, either it is set to the english page, or it is set to a german page, falling back to the english page if the german one isnt there
[08:04] <Diziet> No, there is no fallback.
[08:04] <Diziet> Unless I'm very confused and it's hidden somewhere.
[08:04] <Diziet> But yes you should ship the German page.
[08:05] <Diziet> It won't work but at least then it can be made to.
[08:05] <mdke> Diziet, ok, btw it's clear we're still talking about breezy yeah?
[08:05] <Diziet> Err, um, no!
[08:05] <mdke> ok
[08:05] <Diziet> I think surely that this is too late to fix for breezy.
[08:05] <Diziet> The change to the default start location is an incompatible change.
[08:05] <mdke> Diziet, the reason i was asking is that I've been preparing an update for breezy for ubuntu-docs
[08:06] <ogra> Keybuk, infinity, jbailey, any idea why my thin clients cant find the NFS rootserver anymore in dapper ? i always get rootserver=0.0.0.0 on booting, NFSROOT is set to auto in initramfs.conf
[08:06] <Diziet> That is, if you change that in the langpack but not in -doc then ff breaks.
[08:06] <Diziet> mdke: I see.  In that case don't bother shipping the tranlated .html unless it's easy.
[08:06] <Diziet> I mean, don't bother changing it but don't fork anything to avoid shipping the translated .html.
[08:06] <mdke> Diziet, it's easy, but I won't do it unless there is a chance of you making firefox see them...
[08:06] <Diziet> Not in Breezy.
[08:07] <Keybuk> ogra: nothing I would have broken
[08:07] <Diziet> Breezy's ff is already groaning under 50kloc of nightmare patches.
[08:07] <mdke> Diziet, ok great.
[08:07] <Diziet> Thanks, sorry for confusion.
[08:07] <dilinger> woohah
[08:07] <dilinger> dilinger@jack:~ $ posh
[08:07] <dilinger> *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x08065738 ***
[08:07] <dilinger> Aborted
[08:07] <Diziet> Could you c&p this and put it in an email ?  If not I'll do it later.
[08:07] <ogra> Keybuk, hmm, its quite strange ... since the config of all services is the same as in breezy ...
[08:07] <mdke> Diziet, sure
[08:07] <Diziet> Just so we have a record of the decision and the reasons.
[08:07] <dilinger> i should go make fun of Clint a bit
[08:07] <mdke> Diziet, last thing. for dapper, the new version of the doc isn't translated.
[08:08] <mdke> Diziet, but I can upload some translated html anyway for testing purposes, if you like
[08:08] <mdke> with the old text
[08:08] <mdke> that way, you can see if you can make ff see it in dapper
[08:09] <Diziet> That would be very sensible, yes.
[08:09] <mdke> Diziet, ok, thanks v much
[08:09] <Diziet> When you do that file a bug against firefox, P1, to tell me you've done it.
[08:09] <mdke> Diziet, sure ting
[08:09] <Diziet> I'll try to get it in my next upload then.  Or downgrade the bug if it's too hard :-).
[08:10] <mdke> :)
[08:10] <Keybuk> ogra: the right network card module is loaded, right?
[08:10] <mdke> dholbach, go ahead and upload [breezy-updates]  ubuntu-docs when you're ready please :D
[08:10] <ogra> Keybuk, yes, the system bots absolutely fine until it wants to mount its nfsroot from 0.0.0.0
[08:12] <elmo> dilinger: at least you can be sure it's posix certified corruption
[08:13] <dilinger> hah
[08:13] <dilinger> elmo: great!
[08:13] <ogra> Keybuk, and since the nfsroot should be determined inside the intiramfs somewhere if set to auto, it must be a change there thats responsible
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[08:14] <Keybuk> right, blame infinity ;)
[08:15] <Kamion> damnit, I'm going to have to inflict pure evil on apt-setup again
[08:15] <Kamion> I was hoping to have got rid of that workaround but apt is too stupid
[08:16] <ogra> Kamion, grub didnt pick up my installed system on my test install here... known ?
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[08:18] <Kamion> ogra: no, file a bug with a description of your system and with /var/log/installer/partman and /var/log/installer/syslog attached please
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[08:19] <Kamion> on grub-installer for now
[08:19] <ogra> oki
[08:25] <Mez> ogra: didnt edubuntu have some sort of "filtering proxy" in it ?
[08:25] <ogra> nope
[08:25] <ajmitch> morning
[08:25] <ogra> i'm deeply looking into willow for the next rlease, but no promises 
[08:25] <Mez> ogra: was it planned or something
[08:25] <Mez> willow ?
[08:25] <Mez> hmm
[08:26] <Mez> looking at a program called censornet at the moment - based around debian - but breaks SSH with windows and breaks completely if you apt-get upgrade (cause it was built on woody)
[08:26] <Loevborg> Are there instructions somewhere for debugging (and filing bug reports on) suspend-to-disk crashes?
[08:27] <ogra> Mez, it requires a high level of configurtion and the existing solutions even require to keep recent urllists ... we cant take such a maintenance burden ... willow works with bayesian filtering and teachjes itself, so that might be an option fo the latter
[08:28] <Mez> hmm sounds confusing
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[08:47] <jbailey> seb128: Is "Shared Libraries" Really  Bibliothques Partages  ?
[08:47] <seb128> jbailey: correct
[08:47] <seb128> why?
[08:47] <jbailey> It just seemed like too literal of a translation.
[08:48] <seb128> s/P/p/
[08:48] <seb128> we don't capitalize every word :)
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[08:50] <jbailey> Right, it's not a proper name here. =)
[08:50] <pitti> yay my network
[08:50] <PupenoL> Sorry to bother you again, but I am really lost here...
[08:50] <PupenoL> I am using apt-ftparchive to make a repository, I configured it like: BinDirectory "ubuntu/breezy/rs/" { Packages "ubuntu/breezy/rs/Packages"; } and I get the error "E: Could not open file ./ubuntu/breezy/rs/binary-i386/Packages.gz.new - open (2 No such file or directory)". Why is it tring to access binary-i386 ? my packages are not there. Or how can I tell dpkg-buildpackage to store them there ?
[08:50] <pitti> mjg59: sorry, I got disconnected a while ago
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[08:52] <pitti> mjg59: btw, Xorg is not suid in dapper
[08:53] <mjg59> pitti: X is
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[08:57] <pitti> I see
[08:58] <pitti> mjg59: how would your approach cope with the PID file race?
[08:58] <mjg59> pitti: It wouldn't involve pid files
[08:59] <mjg59> But I'll need to think about that a little
[08:59] <Keybuk> mjg59: #ubuntu-meeting
[08:59] <mjg59> Keybuk: Sure
[09:00] <mdke> Diziet, ok I've updated https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation?action=show, will that be good enough or do you want an email too?
[09:00] <pitti> mjg59: anyway, I would be fine with the way you proposed, I'm just desperately trying to avoid the big effort that this solution would require
[09:00] <mjg59> There's not a lot required
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[09:17] <Kamion> dlopen: /usr/lib/xorg/modules/libGLcore.so: undefined symbol: __glXLastContext
[09:17] <Kamion> hmm
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[09:21] <elmo> Kamion: how careful do I have to be about removing NBS kernel images?
[09:22] <Kamion> elmo: go for it, we've finished this week's kernel transition
[09:22] <elmo> but in general I should ask?
[09:23] <Kamion> nah, we never release CD images when the archive is part-way through a kernel transition
[09:23] <elmo> ok
[09:24] <Pygi> heh, Kamion, you here? ;)
[09:25] <Kamion> Pygi: yes
[09:25] <Pygi> ok, so when can I finaly start contributing to the UbuntuExpress? ;)
[09:25] <Kamion> Pygi: I haven't been talking to you about ubuntu-express (now called espresso) because there isn't much to talk to you about yet
[09:26] <Pygi> so it's still not in coding phase?
[09:26] <Kamion> I've been too busy with other stuff like the CD bootloader changes and all the 2.6.15/new-udev work, and work on espresso has only just started
[09:26] <Pygi> ah,ok
[09:26] <Kamion> it's in coding phase, but not in a state where it's useful for anyone else to contribute yet really
[09:27] <Kamion> I'm working on all the prerequisites, like .debs of various pieces of d-i that Espresso will call
[09:27] <Pygi> kk, does a new wiki page for the project exists or?
[09:27] <Kamion> some of that's in the archive already; you may have seen espresso-utils and os-prober arrive
[09:27] <Kamion> no, I'm adding status updates to the various existing UbuntuExpress/* pages on the wiki
[09:28] <Kamion> I don't really intend to go through the busywork of renaming all the pages
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[09:28] <Kamion> I've been completely blocked lately because we haven't had a working live CD to test things on
[09:28] <Kamion> we've been sorting much of that out today, although the result is still very raw
[09:29] <Kamion> (http://wiki.ubuntu.com/SimplifiedLiveCD)
[09:29] <Pygi> no problem, just please tell me once it's ready for outside contribution
[09:29] <seb128> Kamion: how is the CD build going, should we hold uploads for now?
[09:29] <Kamion> I then have to release Flight CD 2, and only then can I actually get back to Espresso development
[09:29] <Kamion> seb128: please hold uploads, yes, I'm trying to figure out why X broke
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[09:29] <Kamion> and whether the impact is widespread
[09:29] <Kamion> testing the current install CDs would be appreciated; they aren't final but nearly so
[09:30] <Kamion> Pygi: sure
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[09:30] <Pygi> Kamion:kk,thanks
[09:30] <ogra> Kamion, X worked here in my recent install 
[09:30] <zul> jbailey: you are going to be here later correct?
[09:30] <ogra> Kamion, it doesnt with my thin client with the trident card ...
[09:31] <Pygi> just as a thought, anyone here working on fixing the "keyboard layout change" bug?
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[09:31] <Kamion> "keyboard layout change"?
[09:31] <jbailey> zul: No, Angie's got a video that I'm helpign with tonight.
[09:32] <Pygi> Kamion: yes
[09:32] <Pygi> once you add "Croatian" as your default layout for instance, whatever you do, it refuses to use that layout
[09:33] <Pygi> change in xorg.conf, and then restart of X server
[09:33] <Pygi> it asks you what layout you wanna use because there is a mixup (use X setting or Gnome), then you choose Gnome and everything works fine from then on
[09:33] <Kamion> oh, that I have no idea about, sorry
[09:33] <Pygi> but this is not a convinient way for new users
[09:34] <Pygi> kk
[09:34] <zul> jbailey: cool..no problem...i know when im not wanted ;)
[09:34] <janimo> elmo, please add jani@ubuntu.com to main uploaders when you have time, I just got approved in #u-m. thank you
[09:35] <elmo> janimo: send mail to the address listed in the wiki
[09:35] <janimo> ok
=== janimo goes to find that page in wiki
[09:36] <ogra> Uploads ;)
[09:37] <janimo> ogra, thanks :)
[09:38] <janimo> hmm, upload@ubuntulinux.org ?
[09:38] <ogra> yup, i think so ...
[09:38] <Kamion> s/ubuntulinux\.org/ubuntu.com/g
[09:39] <ogra> hmm, then the wiki needs an update 
[09:40] <ogra> janimo, would you ? while youre at it ? 
[09:40] <janimo> I am editing right now ;)
[09:40] <ogra> thanks :)
[09:43] <janimo> ogra, does REVU new package policy apply to main as well?
[09:43] <janimo> do I need two MOTUs to endorse packages?
[09:43] <ogra> janimo, not really ... 
[09:43] <janimo> great! 
[09:43] <ogra> but its more safe if you feel unsure about a package to ask someone
[09:43] <janimo> now I won't have any excuse for being slow ;)
[09:44] <janimo> yes, the new packs are mostly clones of kubuntu/edubuntu art/doc stuff
[09:44] <janimo> nothing dangerous ort complicated
[09:44] <ogra> but note that new packages always enter universe first :P
[09:44] <janimo> hmm I didn;t know that
[09:44] <Riddell> Kamion: are there any plans for a flight-2?
[09:45] <ogra> they are staging up through main inclusion reports and anastacia with more or lees manual work of outhers involved
[09:45] <Kamion> Riddell: working on i
[09:45] <Kamion> t
[09:45] <Kamion> testing tonight would be good; I'll build you a new Kubuntu install CD now
[09:46] <ogra> Riddell, he doesnt even sleep anymore ... or if he does he dreams of gfxboot themes i guess :)
[09:46] <Kamion> I can assure you my wife makes me sleep
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[09:46] <ogra> :)
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[09:53] <Mez> hmm
[09:53] <Mez> where was that guide for makeing your own livecd ?
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[09:55] <tseng> LiveCDCustomizationHowto
[10:01] <Kamion> 6501 N   Dec 13 Ubuntu Archive  (  48) Accepted db4.4 4.4.16-1 (source)
[10:01] <Kamion> oh you have to be kidding, not another one
[10:01] <pitti> aaaargh
[10:01] <fabbione> LOL
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[10:01] <Pygi> hehe
[10:02] <pitti> and *of course* it changes log file format again
[10:02] <Pygi> heh
[10:02] <sivang> pitti: what's that ? :)
[10:03] <pitti> sivang: an evil, incompatible mess of database drivers you don't actually want to know about :/
[10:04] <sivang> pitti: that bad?
[10:04] <Pygi> really bad ;)
[10:04] <pitti> sivang: yes, as soon as you have apps that use db transactions, i. e. you cannot build them against the latest db
[10:05] <sivang> bah
[10:08] <Pygi> hehe
[10:09] <sivang> hmm
[10:09] <sivang> Failed to fetch http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/binary-i386/Packages.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[10:09] <sivang> Failed to fetch http://de.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/source/Sources.bz2  MD5Sum mismatch
[10:09] <sivang> is that known?
[10:10] <jdong> lol, deja vu from #u-m :)
[10:10] <sivang> jdong: eh, something I am doing wrong?
[10:10] <pitti> this kind of mirror breakage is pretty common
[10:10] <jdong> lol, nothing, just that mirror breakage was just discussed
[10:11] <sivang> ah, right :) I though #u-m == #ubuntu-motu
[10:12] <sivang> maybe I should switch mirrors
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=== sivang dropps and falls asleep
[10:13] <seb128> Kamion: in fact the new e-d-s is to the archive now, so I should upload the packages that need to be transitionned , right?
[10:13] <Kamion> seb128: oh, yes please, I should have asked elmo to hold that in NEW
[10:13] <Kamion> sigh, oh well
[10:13] <elmo> urgh, sorry
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[10:21] <slomo_> elmo: please sync lesstif1-1 from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped
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[10:23] <greenpenguin13> am i the only one that's had their screen resolution change after those updates?
[10:23] <greenpenguin13> my screen looks like 800x600 but it says 1280x1024 in xorg.conf
[10:23] <greenpenguin13> how odd
[10:24] <Treenaks> greenpenguin13: what does /var/log/Xorg.0.log tell you?
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[10:27] <greenpenguin13> err...
[10:27] <greenpenguin13> (WW) Warning, couldn't open module GLcore
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> ah here we are
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x350" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "320x175" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x400" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "320x200" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "720x400" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "360x200" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x480" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "320x240" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "640x480" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> (II) NVIDIA(0): Not using default mode "320x240" (vrefresh out of range)
[10:28] <Treenaks> greenpenguin13: DONT PASTE HERE
[10:28] <greenpenguin13> and so on
[10:28] <Treenaks> *cry*
[10:29] <fabbione> greenpenguin13: you want to ask in #ubuntu
[10:29] <greenpenguin13> lol sry
[10:29] <sivang> guys, this is probably a #ubuntu issue, no?
[10:29] <fabbione> this is not a support channel
[10:29] <Treenaks> greenpenguin13: please please please use #ubuntu and a paste-bin
[10:29] <Pygi> Penguin, please don't flood 
[10:29] <greenpenguin13> yeah
[10:29] <sivang> also, forums
[10:30] <Treenaks> sivang: eek?
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[10:30] <sivang> Treenaks: hmm, did I say something wrong?
[10:30] <mdke> sivang, no
[10:30] <mdke> a good suggestion
[10:31] <Treenaks> sivang: no, but I'm still a bit scared of the forums
[10:31] <Treenaks> (but I have that for most forums)
[10:31] <mdke> forums are a good way to get support, better than irc
[10:32] <Treenaks> mdke: depends on the forum :)
[10:32] <mdke> and the irc, yes
[10:32] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync util-vserver from debian unstable (ubuntu override okey) :-)
[10:32] <sivang> mdke: I've had some folks starting to translate some very good stuff there to hebrew :)
[10:32] <sivang> that's why I suggested it
[10:32] <sivang> it apepears to have some nice solution for part of the issues
[10:33] <mdke> sivang, hebrew translation |= nvidia support, but still, that's cool
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[10:33] <sivang> mdke: well, not *about* hebrew translations, but translating to hebrew some support replies there :)
[10:34] <mdke> ah i see, cool
[10:34] <Kamion> Riddell: you have new Kubuntu install CDs - please test
[10:34] <Kamion> Riddell: let me know if the boot screen looks funny
[10:34] <sivang> anyway, I fall asleep for real now..night..
[10:34] <ogra> Kamion, bootscreen was cool for edubuntu bte with yesterdays image
[10:34] <ogra> *btw
[10:35] <ogra> especially being able to install with 1024x786 is very impressing
[10:35] <ogra> i only had locale probs and a broken install due to the postgres breakage resulting from this
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[10:36] <Kamion> ogra: excellent; yes I like the easy support for different video modes too, that was a sort-of-unexpected bonus
[10:36] <ogra> Kamion, is the locale prob solved in todays image ?
[10:37] <Kamion> the background is just the usplash image run through 'convert -extent 640x480' at the moment
[10:37] <ogra> note that i dont need any manually built ones 
[10:37] <ogra> i wont test tonight anymore
[10:37] <Kamion> ogra: solved but I don't think I've built Edubuntu since; it took a while because I didn't notice localechooser FTBFSing
[10:37] <ogra> Kamion, i'm fine with the normal cron job, dont care about me
[10:38] <Kamion> normal cron job's disabled for now actually, I'll just fire off a rebuild for you
[10:38] <ogra> i'll start my rsyncs before bed and will be fine with testing toimorrow
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[10:47] <Riddell> Kamion: thanks, downloading now
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[10:50] <jdong> aww, why'd the Dapper splash revert?
[10:51] <greenpenguin13> i was getting fed up of the old dapper spash :p
[10:51] <ogra> jdong, because mjg59 had to many offers from art galleries whanting to buy it
[10:51] <jdong> ogra: oh, I can imagine so :)
[10:52] <ogra> ;)
[10:52] <McFergus> libavahi-bonjour-howl is already in Dapper ?
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[10:54] <mdke> McFergus, packages.ubuntu.com
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[10:54] <McFergus> sorry
[10:54] <mdke> McFergus, no problem!
[10:55] <jdong> or madison-lite if you really wanna be up to the minute! LOL
=== Kamion hopes all that e-d-s stuff builds - current livefs builds fail :(
[10:55] <jdong> wow, that apt-get dist-upgrade really screwed up my Dapper :)
[10:57] <dholbach> jbailey: could you give the new gnome-terminal a spin and see, if your use case works now? :)
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[10:59] <ogra> Kamion, didnt you call for an upload stop ? 
[10:59] <\sh> elmo: ping
[10:59] <Kamion> ogra: ideally I'd like safe uploads that don't change package names only at this point
[10:59] <ogra> oh
[11:00] <\sh> elmo: you synced glabels today, but not jabberoo or istanbul...was there an issue with it?
[11:04] <\sh> infinity: and thx for debian/dirs :) I missed that really 
[11:05] <jdong> any objections to a backport of gedit 2.13.0?
[11:07] <seb128> I'm away for ~1hour, will fix the eds issues if there is one then, but everything builds fine for now (evolution-exchange will just need a retry when evolution is built)
[11:07] <seb128> bbl
[11:07] <ogra> does a .13 version make sense ? 
[11:08] <jdong> ogra, I asked the same at first, but what could POSSIBLY go horribly wrong with a TEXT EDITOR that one wouldn't notice after a few hours of testing?
[11:08] <dholbach> jdong: lots of internal changes, new build-depends - it's the unstable release
[11:08] <Tm_T> any known issues/anything to test with 15-8 kernel?
[11:08] <ogra> jdong, thats a development package, might have unknown bugs
[11:08] <dholbach> first unstable release
[11:08] <jdong> dholbach: ok, so not a good idea then :)
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[11:09] <dholbach> jdong: no, i did the update and there were quite a lot of changes :)
[11:09] <ogra> jdong, in any case you would have to update it later to a stable version
[11:09] <mdke> but... i thought all backports come from the unstable release
[11:09] <jdong> ok, thanks for letting me know
[11:09] <jdong> mdke: but not necessarily all unstable releases
[11:09] <mdke> isnt that part of the bargain
[11:09] <jdong> mdke: i.e. stable package versions hitting Dapper
[11:09] <ogra> so it would require some maintenance work even if it built finbe for now
[11:09] <mdke> jdong, ah sure
[11:10] <jdong> mdke: I tend to stay far away from GNOME related stuff in main :)
[11:10] <\sh> mdke: gnome is following ubuntus release cycle...so 2.14.x will be in ubuntu...so backporting 2.13 is not a good idea ,)
[11:11] <mdke> \sh, i don't follow that, but i don't know much about backports anyhow
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[11:11] <jdong> ok.... CTRL+ALT+BKSP zaps vmware ALONG with the host's X :)
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[11:20] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync php4-idn php4-imagick from debian unstable (ubuntu override okey) :-)
[11:21] <jdong> elmo: what are all the *-given-back.gz failures in buildLogs?
[11:21] <Nafallo> elmo: ...and thanks for util-vserver and co. :-)
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[11:24] <jdong> it seems to be happening with more than Backports builds, actually
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[11:24] <jdong> do the buildd admins know about this?
[11:25] <azeem> jdong: yes, that's their job
[11:25] <jdong> excuuuuuse me for asking :)
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[11:56] <jcole> a floppy image, lol... can som
[11:56] <jcole> uh
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[11:56] <jcole> how can i install ubuntu via floppy? i have an old laptop that has no cdrom drive in it... i did an "apt-get source debian-installer" on another machine and trying to figure out how to build a floppy image, lol... can someone please point me to a doc?
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[11:59] <seth_k|lappy> jcole, #ubuntu is where you want to ask
[12:00] <lathiat> McFergus: not yet, but will be