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| mgalvin | hi all! | 03:52 |
|---|---|---|
| mgalvin | hey just a heads up, i started writing up a review of flight 2 in case anyone is interested | 03:54 |
| mgalvin | i will probably put it on the wiki soon | 03:54 |
| mgalvin | i'll post a link when its set, please feel free to add to it if you like | 03:54 |
| mgalvin | unless..., did anyone already start one? | 03:55 |
| jsgotangco | flight 2 is out? | 03:56 |
| mgalvin | no but i am starting to prep the review, it will be very "Soon" | 03:56 |
| jsgotangco | ahhh | 03:56 |
| mgalvin | nothing huge, just an overview and some screenshots and such | 03:56 |
| mgalvin | thought it would be nice to have an overview of improvement and such to go along with the release | 03:57 |
| jsgotangco | like we really have a cool usplash... | 03:58 |
| mgalvin | yup! i already have a screenshot of it :) | 03:59 |
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| mgalvin | good night all | 05:00 |
| mgalvin | here is the flight 2 overview i started in case anyone wants to add anything | 05:00 |
| mgalvin | https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight2 | 05:00 |
| mgalvin | either way, i will finish more of it in the am | 05:01 |
| mgalvin | later | 05:01 |
| LaserJock | cya | 05:02 |
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| LaserJock | hi bhuvan | 05:59 |
| bhuvan | LaserJock, hello | 06:33 |
| LaserJock | bhuvan: you just became a Ubuntu member not long ago, right? | 06:35 |
| bhuvan | yes | 06:37 |
| LaserJock | how long did it take to get svn commit access? | 06:37 |
| bhuvan | almost 15 days | 06:37 |
| LaserJock | did you have to do anything? except wait ;-) | 06:38 |
| bhuvan | in my case, i guess, i happen to become ubuntu member to get svn commit access | 06:38 |
| LaserJock | me too, at last CC meeting | 06:39 |
| bhuvan | jsgotangco & mdke had issues getting svn access fo non-member. i become member, thus they were able to get it done with ease | 06:39 |
| bhuvan | you, yeah i know, i remember recommending you that day :) | 06:39 |
| bhuvan | i hope you forgot that fact :) :) | 06:40 |
| jsgotangco | its much easier to approve commit access to a member | 06:41 |
| jsgotangco | because elmo itself manages the keys and the servers | 06:41 |
| LaserJock | I don't remeber a lot of the CC meeting. Things were moving fast and it was 6:00 am for me | 06:41 |
| bhuvan | LaserJock, ok | 06:42 |
| LaserJock | itself? hmm, I always new he was a bot ;-) | 06:42 |
| LaserJock | I just wondered if I needed to email him or something | 06:42 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, hahaha..sorry that was a slipup | 06:43 |
| LaserJock | jsgotangco: but a funny one | 06:43 |
| jsgotangco | when i first started in ubuntu last year, everyone was saying elmo please sync, elmo please do that... | 06:44 |
| jsgotangco | in my mind i thought elmo was a chat triggered bot that synced | 06:44 |
| jsgotangco | hehe | 06:44 |
| LaserJock | yeah, makes sense | 06:44 |
| Madpilot | hi all | 06:54 |
| LaserJock | hi Madpilot | 06:55 |
| Madpilot | hmm... just realized that BitTorrent isn't mentioned at all in the Peer-to-Peer section of the Desktop Guide - despite the fact that it's the only p2p service included in Ubuntu by default - I'll have to get something written for that... | 06:59 |
| LaserJock | lol | 06:59 |
| Madpilot | tonight I'm full of good food and too much beer (staff Christmas party) :) | 07:02 |
| LaserJock | I'm trying to finish the last homework of my college career | 07:02 |
| Madpilot | getting that done will feel good, I bet | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | hmmm | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | make should work | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | but it doesn | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | t | 07:03 |
| LaserJock | I guess, after 8 years it will be nice to not have homework | 07:03 |
| LaserJock | Friday will be my last final too, that will be even better :-) | 07:05 |
| jsgotangco | gahhh stupid me i forgot to install make | 07:33 |
| LaserJock | lol, that will do it | 07:33 |
| rob1 | LaserJock, you were looking for me? | 07:33 |
| LaserJock | rob1: hmm, was I. I can't remember anymore | 07:34 |
| jsgotangco | hey rob1 where in au are you at? | 07:34 |
| === jsgotangco is flying for brisbane this weekend | ||
| rob1 | 0404| LaserJock rob1: still around? | 07:34 |
| rob1 | Townsville | 07:34 |
| LaserJock | maybe it was about yelp on dapper | 07:34 |
| rob1 | about 1000km north | 07:34 |
| LaserJock | a bit of a drive ;-) | 07:35 |
| jsgotangco | ugghhh | 07:35 |
| rob1 | only an hour and a half by plane | 07:35 |
| rob1 | if that | 07:35 |
| Madpilot | speaking of Yelp - is it going to acquire a search function anytime soon? | 07:36 |
| jsgotangco | if the patches submitted are applied | 07:36 |
| LaserJock | rob1: anyway, I think you can disregard my ping. My yelp crashes for some reason, but it seems to just be my box | 07:37 |
| rob1 | yelp is pretty dodgy | 07:37 |
| rob1 | my dapper upgrade on my laptop went pretty good, a few bugs but a lot more stable then breezy was | 07:38 |
| LaserJock | well, I have dapper chroot and it works in that so I'm not too bothered by it | 07:38 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, its a known issue | 07:39 |
| LaserJock | it's just that it is the only program I know of that renders docboook | 07:39 |
| rob1 | jsgotangco, the fact that its dodgy, or the search function? | 07:40 |
| rob1 | heh | 07:40 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 07:40 |
| LaserJock | I still don't get why it renders xml so much slower than html | 07:41 |
| jsgotangco | conglomerate is getting much better though | 07:41 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, because it does some voodoo css on its own | 07:41 |
| rob1 | hmm sf.net has had a face lift | 07:41 |
| jsgotangco | for some reason, even that is slow | 07:41 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I tried conglomerate out the other day. Kinda confusing to me. Right now it is easier for me to just turn it into html | 07:42 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 07:42 |
| rob1 | it has such an ugly name | 07:43 |
| jsgotangco | for some people i work with, they seem to like conglomerate | 07:43 |
| jsgotangco | it still doesn't render correctly, but its a minor issue | 07:43 |
| LaserJock | I probably just need to try it more. | 07:44 |
| LaserJock | so there really isn't an alternative to yelp? or am I just missing something | 07:45 |
| jsgotangco | yelp is the gnome help viewer - jdub | 07:45 |
| jsgotangco | :D | 07:45 |
| LaserJock | but if I just want to render some .xml files quickly? | 07:46 |
| rob1 | yet, that same line of reasoning didn't stop them creating gai when synaptic does the job much better | 07:46 |
| rob1 | but hey, who am I to disagree with a developer? | 07:47 |
| jsgotangco | rob1, synaptic is a different animal that has a different use for Ubuntu while gai is a complete turnaround to synpatic's supposed complexity | 07:47 |
| rob1 | but yet, its limited, redundant and therefor useless | 07:48 |
| jsgotangco | that's your personal opinion as a user and does not reflect the opinion of the general users | 07:48 |
| Madpilot | rob1: but it's (slightly) less scary than Synaptic, for some people... | 07:49 |
| jsgotangco | as documentation/technical writers, we don't have the liberty of expressing personal opinion | 07:49 |
| rob1 | not my decision really | 07:49 |
| rob1 | yep | 07:49 |
| jsgotangco | (in writing btw) | 07:49 |
| Madpilot | the only time I use GAI is to check what's included there or not... | 07:50 |
| jsgotangco | actually i use gai | 07:51 |
| jsgotangco | i like the bling it provides | 07:51 |
| rob1 | I use aptitude in a shell | 07:51 |
| LaserJock | I think it is kinda cool, but I think that it would have been better to have basic/advanced modes of synaptic or something like that | 07:51 |
| Madpilot | LaserJock: you can actually launch Synaptic from GAI for advanced installs | 07:52 |
| LaserJock | Madpilot: right, I would like it reversed, in Synaptica have an easy button | 07:52 |
| rob1 | no gui crap to get in the way, but if I was to use the graphical tools I'd use synaptic over gai for sure | 07:52 |
| jsgotangco | we eat our own dog food | 07:52 |
| LaserJock | having all these install tools does make it a bit more difficult to write about | 07:52 |
| Burgundavia | rob1, no, I don't have ops on #ubuntu | 07:53 |
| rob1 | Burgundavia, yeah never mind, I got hold of crimsun | 07:53 |
| Madpilot | Burgundavia: wasn't that question asked about 24 hours ago?:P | 07:54 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot, something like that | 07:54 |
| Burgundavia | Madpilot, I don't turn my computer off if I am at C's | 07:54 |
| LaserJock | I had a lengthy conversation with -motu about what to use in the Packaging Guide, we ended up deciding not to say anything ;-) | 07:54 |
| rob1 | we just had users from toronto complaining to us about it | 07:54 |
| rob1 | a dodgy ban that was set | 07:56 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, rightfully so, people who are reading a packaging guide should already know what to use really | 07:56 |
| LaserJock | jsgotangco: that's what we decided. But there are some interesting things that come up between using aptitude and apt-get | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | jsgotangco: aptitude installs Recommends by default whereas apt-get doesn't | 07:57 |
| jsgotangco | yeah and aptitude/apt discussion is a totally different beast heh | 07:57 |
| rob1 | see http://os.newsforge.com/comments.pl?sid=42537&op=&threshold=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&tid=2&tid=130&pid=0 | 07:58 |
| rob1 | theres 9 reasons on there why you should be using aptitude over apt-get | 07:59 |
| rob1 | actually, this ones better: http://linux.derkeiler.com/Mailing-Lists/Debian/2004-04/3181.html | 08:00 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 08:00 |
| jsgotangco | its often advised to use aptitude in a dist-upgrade scenario | 08:00 |
| LaserJock | yeah, but for me the UI was confusing enough that it took me a long time to want to use it | 08:01 |
| LaserJock | the Recommends by default thing is slightly concerning. You can issue the same command in apt-get and aptitude and get different results | 08:02 |
| rob1 | sure, but you can turn it off | 08:02 |
| LaserJock | yeah, but you have to tell all the newbs that :-) | 08:02 |
| rob1 | and I typically want the recommended packages anyway :) | 08:03 |
| LaserJock | me too | 08:03 |
| rob1 | jsgotangco, are you going to Sydney when you come over here? | 08:04 |
| jsgotangco | rob1, i might drop by, i want to go to sydney again and feel the heat | 08:04 |
| rob1 | heh heat | 08:04 |
| rob1 | there has been three nights of riots there | 08:04 |
| jsgotangco | wah? | 08:05 |
| rob1 | huge groups of lebs and white surfer types kicking each others butts | 08:05 |
| rob1 | and anyone who is unlucky enough to be outside when they pass | 08:05 |
| rob1 | and the police are mostly useless | 08:06 |
| jsgotangco | well i could agree with the police being useless | 08:06 |
| rob1 | pretty bad stuff, out police can't use non leathal weapons apart from mase and battons | 08:07 |
| === jsgotangco got himself lost in sydney during UDU and the police wasn't that much help either | ||
| rob1 | so umm, if you go there don't leave the airport :) | 08:07 |
| rob1 | there are streets worth of cars getting smashed up, businesses etc | 08:08 |
| jsgotangco | arggh | 08:08 |
| jsgotangco | just like paris | 08:08 |
| rob1 | yeah | 08:08 |
| rob1 | they are tipping more riots tonight too | 08:09 |
| rob1 | I saw a well put together mock up of a GTA case, GTA:BB (Bondi Beach) | 08:12 |
| jsgotangco | haha | 08:12 |
| jsgotangco | i guess it sucks to go to bondi this time of the year | 08:12 |
| rob1 | ah well the weather is pretty good.. the locals are not. | 08:13 |
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| mdke | evening | 07:56 |
| Burgwork | salut | 07:57 |
| Burgwork | have you seen the linus-flame yet? | 07:57 |
| mdke | not yet, been too busy | 07:57 |
| LaserJock | the Gnome one? | 07:58 |
| Burgwork | yep | 07:58 |
| LaserJock | reading right now | 07:58 |
| LaserJock | quite interesting | 07:58 |
| Burgwork | Linus was a fool | 07:58 |
| mdke | he's an odd chap, certainly | 07:59 |
| Burgwork | I am not a fan of KDE personally but I can disconnect that from supporting KDE | 07:59 |
| LaserJock | He sure made his point "Any Gnome people who argue that it's about "usability" have their heads up | 07:59 |
| LaserJock | their asses so far that it's not funny." | 08:00 |
| Burgwork | with BIG BOLD CAPS | 08:00 |
| Burgwork | JUST IN CASE YOU MISSED THAT GNOME USERS ARE IDIOTS | 08:00 |
| LaserJock | although, I agree with a lot of what he is getting at | 08:00 |
| LaserJock | He seemed pretty rude about it | 08:00 |
| Burgwork | usability is a very nebulous concept | 08:00 |
| LaserJock | yes | 08:01 |
| Burgwork | looks great from 30k feet but needs more concrete action and usecases from the ground | 08:01 |
| Burgwork | that is what is missing on the usability mailing list most of the time | 08:01 |
| Burgwork | Jeff Waugh "None of this discussion has impacted the healthy working relationship | 08:02 |
| Burgwork | that the desktop developers have built, despite the dim white noise of | 08:02 |
| Burgwork | users beating each other to a pulp in the background." | 08:02 |
| LaserJock | but I agree that you can have options for advanced user while keeping things simple | 08:02 |
| LaserJock | that has been the biggest problem I have had with Gnome | 08:02 |
| Burgwork | from watching my work mates use Fedora core at work (all are windows users at home), I would say that fixing bugs is more important | 08:03 |
| Burgwork | they don't much care about options | 08:03 |
| Burgwork | in fact, only 2 of the 6 of us have customized our desktops | 08:04 |
| Burgwork | one moved the top bar to the bottom and removed the bottom bar and I added more workspaces and the task monitor | 08:04 |
| Burgwork | IE: good defaults and thus good policy matter | 08:04 |
| jjesse | i was trying to show my boss kubuntu and things crashed, three or four times and was like "sometimes that happens" | 08:05 |
| LaserJock | I would think that they would though, if they could. I found customizing Gnome to be a big pain in the butt. It was a lot easier in KDE | 08:05 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, I seriously doubt it | 08:05 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, moving a panel or adding things to it is pretty easy and yet they don't do it | 08:05 |
| LaserJock | hmm, to be honest, that seems silly | 08:06 |
| Burgwork | most power users fail to realize that most non-power users don't change defaults | 08:06 |
| Burgwork | it took me a long time to accept that to | 08:06 |
| Burgwork | s/to/too | 08:06 |
| LaserJock | I do the same thing, but that is because I can't get Gnome to do anything the way I want it too? | 08:06 |
| Burgwork | but you try and fail | 08:07 |
| jjesse | i think Burgwork was right when he said fixing bugs should be more important then making thing s look prettier | 08:07 |
| Burgwork | they don't even try because they don't care | 08:07 |
| LaserJock | I just find it is harder to work in Gnome, but then I am somewhat more used to KDE | 08:07 |
| jjesse | i wish the smae thing was true for MS as well, make things work better then wasting time on making things look prettier | 08:07 |
| LaserJock | jjesse: well, sometimes it's not just prettier, it is usability | 08:08 |
| LaserJock | although most of the time it is just eye candy :-) | 08:08 |
| LaserJock | I do wish KDE worked better in Ubuntu | 08:10 |
| LaserJock | anyway, I am slowly conforming to the Gnome way of life | 08:11 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, bug riddel is something doesn't work | 08:11 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, he and Mark are keen to make Kubuntu the best KDE desktop on the planet | 08:11 |
| LaserJock | yeah, I was thinking of installing KDE today. Getting kinda bored with just plain old dapper | 08:12 |
| LaserJock | I really like Gnome though too | 08:12 |
| LaserJock | I just wish they could have something like "Advanced" tabs or something | 08:13 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, advanced tabs are evil | 08:13 |
| LaserJock | really? How so? | 08:13 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, if you can create a good usecase for something that bugs you, the gnome people are happy to accept that | 08:13 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, advanced tabs are evil because they mess with peoples minds | 08:13 |
| Burgwork | people don't click them because they don't think they are advanced enough or do because they think they are | 08:14 |
| Burgwork | either way, it is not task driven | 08:14 |
| Burgwork | tabs labelled for what is actually on them is better | 08:14 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I just seems like you can have lots of options, but in a user friendly way | 08:14 |
| LaserJock | I didn't think KDE's setup was bad at all | 08:16 |
| Burgwork | questions need answer | 08:16 |
| Burgwork | s | 08:16 |
| jjesse | apt-get install kubuntu-desktop | 08:16 |
| jjesse | how can it get easier ? | 08:16 |
| LaserJock | jjesse: doing it as we speak | 08:16 |
| Burgwork | ergo, if you ask a user a question, you need to make certain they have the information to be able to make an informed choice on that answer | 08:16 |
| Burgwork | hence why Ubuntu has nothing in the install about KDE vs Gnome | 08:17 |
| Burgwork | we simply cannot provide enough information in the installer for the user to make an informed choice | 08:17 |
| jjesse | but it shouldn't it would just complicate things | 08:17 |
| Burgwork | but we can ask them what their name is | 08:17 |
| LaserJock | I like the Gnome look and feel, but the KDE configurability | 08:18 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, sometimes options are simply left off not through deliberate design choice, but merely not having enough time to figure out how to do it well | 08:18 |
| LaserJock | yeah, it can't be easy | 08:19 |
| LaserJock | anway, I think my biggest problems are with Metacity rather the Gnome itself | 08:19 |
| LaserJock | although the gnome-menu is kinda a problem to me | 08:20 |
| LaserJock | it keeps getting smaller and smaller. I just can't see how it is more usable to not be able to find applications | 08:21 |
| Burgwork | the end goal is not WIMP but task and document driven | 08:22 |
| Burgwork | there are going to be bumps along that road | 08:22 |
| LaserJock | WIMP? | 08:22 |
| Burgwork | window, icon, menu, pointing device | 08:23 |
| Burgwork | the current Windows, KDE and Gnome way to doing things | 08:23 |
| Burgwork | OS X is sort of a hybrid with its roots in WIMP | 08:23 |
| LaserJock | how does that work with having more than one app that can do a task? | 08:25 |
| Burgwork | you should never have more than one app that can do a task | 08:26 |
| LaserJock | that seems really weird, to be honest | 08:27 |
| LaserJock | who decides what app does what | 08:27 |
| Burgwork | the distro vendor | 08:28 |
| Burgwork | and you, if you change it | 08:28 |
| LaserJock | I have many apps that do the same thing, except some are better at some things than others | 08:28 |
| Burgwork | but again, most users will never change the default | 08:28 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, you and I are not common computer users | 08:28 |
| LaserJock | I don't think that matters | 08:28 |
| LaserJock | My brother, a total computer newb, just went to buy photoediting software | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | he had many choices | 08:29 |
| Burgwork | how did make his decision? | 08:29 |
| LaserJock | he looked at a bunch of options | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | read the descriptions | 08:30 |
| Burgwork | a decision that he really actually didn't want to amek | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | sure he did | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | how would he know what he was getting otherwise | 08:30 |
| Burgwork | nope, he wanted photoediting software | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | no, he had specific tasks he wanted to be able to do | 08:31 |
| Burgwork | if his "distro", in this case windows, already came with what he needed, he would not have needed to make that decision | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | some photoediting software did his tasks better than others | 08:31 |
| LaserJock | it did, but it didn't do the tasks he wanted as well as he wanted | 08:31 |
| Burgwork | users only buy software because they HAVE to, not because they WANT to | 08:32 |
| LaserJock | but how is he supposed to make an informed decision if he doesn't even know what he has | 08:32 |
| jjesse | i disagree, i buy software (games) that i want | 08:32 |
| LaserJock | in a perfect world with perfect software sure | 08:32 |
| Burgwork | jjesse, that is slightly different | 08:32 |
| Burgwork | regardless, if his distro had shipped good photoediting software, such as the GIMP and Fspot, he would not have needed to make any decision | 08:33 |
| jjesse | i bought photo elements from adobe because i wanted some photo editing software without shelling out the big books for photo shop | 08:33 |
| LaserJock | jjesse: my brother almost got photo elements but there was another program that did what he wanted better | 08:34 |
| jjesse | so he bought the one he wanted to | 08:34 |
| Burgwork | he bought the one that he though could do the job that he needed to do | 08:34 |
| LaserJock | The thing is, I just don't see how a distro can "pick" software for the user and then make it difficult for them to get anything else | 08:34 |
| jjesse | Burgwork: what if fspot or gimp didn't do what he wanted or didn't come with easy to read documentation/tutorials to teach him | 08:34 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, that is a straw man attack | 08:34 |
| Burgwork | I never said I wanted to make it difficult to get other software | 08:35 |
| Burgwork | I just said that you need to ship good default software | 08:35 |
| LaserJock | that is what I was talking about though | 08:35 |
| LaserJock | the menus make it difficult to get new software | 08:35 |
| Burgwork | if you do the latter, the former becomes less necessary | 08:35 |
| LaserJock | because you don't know what you have or what it is called if it is all about the tasks and not about the apps | 08:35 |
| Burgwork | umm "Add Applications?" | 08:35 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, most people think "I need to edit a photo", not "I need to use the GIMP" | 08:36 |
| jjesse | Burgwork: but why does what a distro define as good software then become what fits my needs | 08:36 |
| Burgwork | jjesse, because the distro can employ smart people to figure how people work | 08:36 |
| Burgwork | and what they need | 08:36 |
| LaserJock | but that seems to stiffle OSS | 08:36 |
| Burgwork | to be honest, users are great at telling you waht they want. They are very bad at telling you how to get what they want | 08:36 |
| LaserJock | that is the way MS took | 08:37 |
| Burgwork | LaserJock, actually, no | 08:37 |
| Burgwork | thhat is approach apple took | 08:37 |
| LaserJock | either way, I don't see how it does any good to OSS and the linux community | 08:37 |
| Burgwork | MS took the "cram everything into everything to try and satisfy everybody" | 08:37 |
| LaserJock | that is what you will have to do | 08:38 |
| LaserJock | I just don't see how you can put people in general in that tight of a box | 08:38 |
| LaserJock | certain segments, certainly (gamers, graphics design, programmers, etc.) | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | but the population at large, I just can't see it | 08:39 |
| LaserJock | anyway, I'm not totally against what you are saying Burgwork, I just can't see how it would work better than what we have now | 08:40 |
| LaserJock | If we had lots of time to study users and we had perfect apps, your right, no one would need to install 5 apps to do the same task. | 08:41 |
| LaserJock | but the fact remains that people even do the same task in different ways that different apps will do better than others | 08:41 |
| LaserJock | take vim vs. emacs for instance | 08:41 |
| LaserJock | they are both extremely good editors | 08:42 |
| LaserJock | they pretty much do the same tasks | 08:42 |
| LaserJock | but because people edit in different ways, each will have its users | 08:42 |
| LaserJock | so in order to not alienate people it seems that you should have both fairly easily available | 08:43 |
| === mdke points at #ubuntu-offtopic | ||
| LaserJock | mdke: sorry | 08:43 |
| LaserJock | althogh I kinda think this is relevent | 08:43 |
| mdke | no apology necessary | 08:43 |
| LaserJock | I'm just trying to figure out how users work and how linux relates to them | 08:44 |
| LaserJock | and hopefully right documentation that helps them | 08:44 |
| LaserJock | s/right/write/ | 08:44 |
| LaserJock | Burgwork has brought up some interesting ideas for me to think about | 08:45 |
| LaserJock | maybe I will just think to myself for a while ;-) | 08:45 |
| mgalvin | hey guys, speaking of writting, this is far from done, but can anyone think of any other good points to make here: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight2 | 08:46 |
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| LaserJock | hmm, KDE does seem to have improved, although they still stick Science apps in Edutainment :( | 09:06 |
| mdke | mgalvin, blimey, cool | 09:08 |
| mgalvin | hey mdke: glad you like it so far :) | 09:08 |
| mdke | nice to see you writing again :D | 09:09 |
| LaserJock | mgalvin: is Firefox 1.5 final? | 09:09 |
| mdke | its rc3 | 09:09 |
| mgalvin | yea, i'll try and contrib some more again where i can | 09:10 |
| mgalvin | the version in dapper is not the final yet | 09:10 |
| mgalvin | 1.5 finial will most likely be post flight 2 | 09:10 |
| mdke | yes | 09:11 |
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| mgalvin | mdke: do you think it woould be best host the flight 2 overview on (d|h).u.c | 09:23 |
| === mgalvin worries about possible ./ effect | ||
| jjesse | when does flight 2 come out? | 09:28 |
| mgalvin | the universal... "Soon" is what I was told :) | 09:29 |
| mgalvin | they wanted to release it last week, so any day now i would imagine | 09:30 |
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| jjesse | riddell mentioned that now that kubuntu-desktop is building kubuntu flight 2 should be out "soon" as well | 09:38 |
| mgalvin | cool | 09:46 |
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| mdke | mgalvin, certainly not if it will be slashdotted ;) | 10:10 |
| mgalvin | :) | 10:11 |
| mdke | mgalvin, ubuntu.com might work better, that is where usual release notes are found, along with the wiki | 10:11 |
| mdke | i think just wiki might be the way forward actually | 10:11 |
| mgalvin | ok, is there someplace I could store the images (other than my server)? | 10:12 |
| mdke | mgalvin, upload them to the wiki | 10:12 |
| mgalvin | ok, i will just do that then | 10:12 |
| mdke | More Actions -> Attachments | 10:12 |
| mgalvin | thnx | 10:12 |
| Burgwork | mgalvin, doc.ubuntu.com might be a place we can consider for this sort of thing | 10:23 |
| mgalvin | ok, well, i guess we can make a finial decision on where it will live once it is all done | 10:25 |
| Burgwork | we should build a common framework so all the needs to be changed is the words and the screenshots | 10:27 |
| mdke | Burgwork, well the stable releases aren't even there... | 10:28 |
| mdke | and if it get's slashdotted that server will go down | 10:28 |
| mdke | it already struggles with the bandwidth on help.u | 10:28 |
| mdke | wtf do I always put an apostrophe in "get's" | 10:29 |
| mdke | ugghn | 10:29 |
| LaserJock | for some reason I am using a lot more ,s and 's since using irc | 10:31 |
| mgalvin | Burgwork: sure, I can look at making it generic after I finish it | 10:33 |
| Burgwork | mgalvin, look at the quicktour stuff | 10:33 |
| Burgwork | mdke, hmm, that is a problem | 10:33 |
| mgalvin | hey how to I properly get one attached image to link to another attached image | 10:33 |
| mdke | Burgwork, yes | 10:33 |
| mdke | mgalvin, HelpOnAttachments | 10:34 |
| mdke | or something | 10:34 |
| mdke | hang on | 10:34 |
| mdke | HelpOnActions/AttachFile | 10:34 |
| mdke | Burgwork, we'll work on getting help.u on a canonical server soonish | 10:38 |
| mgalvin | i must be retarted, i can't seem to get one attachment to display AND act as a link to another attachment, is there an example of this somewhere (all the help pages don't mention it) | 10:50 |
| mdke | mgalvin, i don't know if its possible actually | 10:51 |
| mgalvin | i can get them to display on their own just fine, but not get one to act as a link to another | 10:51 |
| mgalvin | hmm | 10:51 |
| mdke | i seem to remember trying once and not succeeding | 10:51 |
| mdke | there are macros that you can use, but I don't know if they are installed on our server | 10:51 |
| Burgwork | moin needs some serious love to handle attachments better | 10:52 |
| mgalvin | seems like i need to add that to the moin wish list | 10:52 |
| === Burgwork sighs and points to another wiki engine.... | ||
| mdke | mgalvin, as I say, there are Macros, just not on our wiki :( | 10:52 |
| mgalvin | :(, oh well | 10:53 |
| mgalvin | hmm, i want to try something | 10:53 |
| jeffsch | maybe instead of "Click the thumbnail for the full size screenshot" have "Click here for the full size screenshot" | 10:53 |
| mdke | you tried [attachment:Targetfile.png attachment:Displayfile.png] ? | 10:53 |
| mdke | oh hi jeffsch! | 10:54 |
| jeffsch | howdy | 10:54 |
| mdke | how are you? | 10:54 |
| jeffsch | pretty good. exams are over. | 10:54 |
| jeffsch | and you? | 10:54 |
| mdke | very well thanks | 10:54 |
| mdke | hope the exams went well | 10:55 |
| mgalvin | mdke: i tried that, no go | 10:55 |
| mgalvin | hey jeff | 10:55 |
| jeffsch | hi matt | 10:55 |
| mgalvin | jeffsch: I might just have to go with that, seems there is no other way :( | 10:56 |
| mgalvin | other than hosting the images somewhere other than "in" the wiki, like i am not | 10:56 |
| jeffsch | oh well. it's not fancy, but it works | 10:56 |
| mgalvin | s/not/now/ | 10:56 |
| mgalvin | maybe we could just store just the images on d.u.c for now, not idea, but also not on my server ;) | 10:57 |
| mgalvin | s/idea/ideal/ | 10:57 |
| mdke | hmm | 10:57 |
| mdke | i don't mind | 10:58 |
| mdke | but jeffsch's idea looks relatively sane | 10:58 |
| mgalvin | it would distribute the load a bit more too | 10:58 |
| mgalvin | yes it does | 10:58 |
| mdke | you'd have the word [here] linking to an attachment, obviously | 10:58 |
| mgalvin | yup | 10:58 |
| mgalvin | i'll set it up that way for now and see how it looks | 10:58 |
| mdke | ok | 10:59 |
| jeffsch | mdke: that's how my doctors describe me: "relatively sane" :) | 10:59 |
| mdke | jeffsch, only to your face | 10:59 |
| mdke | :) | 10:59 |
| jeffsch | :-) | 10:59 |
| mgalvin | hehe :) | 10:59 |
| mdke | we should be getting a new ubuntu-docs in breezy soonish | 10:59 |
| mdke | just waiting on the upload | 10:59 |
| mgalvin | time to head home | 11:03 |
| mgalvin | later all | 11:03 |
| jeffsch | cya | 11:03 |
| mdke | night | 11:03 |
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