/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/18/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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rob1does anyone know when the next CC meeting will be?12:05
rob1week 51..12:07
Kamion20th December, time TBD12:07
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Agendas: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas | Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 14 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 15 Dec 08:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 16 Dec 14:00 UTC: DocTeam | 16 Dec 16:00 UTC: Desktop team | 20 Dec, time TBD: Community Council
rob1ok, thanks Kamion 12:08
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pittihi08:52
ograho08:53
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Keybukok08:59
Keybuklet's get this show on the road08:59
Keybuksabdfl is at dinner, so won't be coming08:59
Keybukand mdz has buggered off on holiday08:59
mjg59Ok09:00
mjg59So what have we got lined up for us today?09:00
jdongthe crowd ain't as big compared to CC meetings, huh?09:00
jbaileyKeybuk: So as in, you don't have quorum anyway?09:00
Keybukis Jani Monoses here?09:00
janimohere09:00
Keybukjbailey: we've always considered two a quorum09:00
jbaileyAh, cool.09:00
Keybukjanimo: you've proposed yourself for main upload privileges09:01
janimoyes, for xfce/xubuntu packages09:01
janimomainly for that09:01
Keybukwould you like to make your case09:01
Keybukwell, I can certainly say you've been doing a lot of work on them09:01
Keybukhave you been doing much work with the existing MOTU team?09:02
janimoI'd like xubuntu to be supported and CDs built for it for dapper09:02
janimoKeybuk, not much MOTU work recently09:02
janimoonly xfce related uploads09:02
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Keybukhow would you like to improve xfce's integration with ubuntu?09:02
fabbioneJanimo: the point is that once you get main upload privileges, you can theoretically upload everything09:02
janimoit is well integrated already, but a few more things to add09:02
fabbionethere is no distinction at the moment09:03
janimoadd gdm and make it a CD09:03
janimofabbione I know09:03
janimoI have uploaded an informationa XubuntuDapperRoadmap spec today with more details09:03
mjg59janimo: So, what does Xubuntu involve?09:03
janimoubuntu standard + x +xfce packages09:04
janimo+ a few other apps09:04
=== ogra would welcome xcfe in main as well as someone who cares for it like janimo does, in edubuntu the question for a slim desktop comes up a lot
janimoright now we have xubuntu-desktop09:04
janimothe mmain gripe of usres is missing a CD install09:04
janimothat would be alot easier if all packages were in main09:04
mjg59janimo: Is the aim to be as well-integrated as Ubuntu?09:05
janimomjg59, rigth09:05
mjg59That is, should Xubuntu aim to fulfil the same specifications?09:05
janimoeasy to use, always free things like that you mean? sure09:05
janimoor technical specs?09:05
fabbionejanimo: both09:05
mjg59janimo: I was thinking more in terms of NetworkMagic, power management, that sort of hting09:05
janimowell then answer is yes for both 09:05
fabbioneit needs to match the same quality and consistency09:06
janimoyes, I intedn to work on power mgmt09:06
Keybukhow would you plan to get others to help with the packaging work?09:06
janimoand most of the related specs as I cab09:06
janimoKeybuk, it is not much packaging involved, as we use debian packages09:06
mjg59I certainly think that the aim for anything in the *ubuntu namespace should be to provide roughly the same level of user experience, but it sounds like you're aiming for that09:06
janimoI intend to work with them09:06
Keybukhave you had to make many modifications to the packages yourself so far?09:07
mjg59janimo: Have you been working with them so far?09:07
janimomjg59, yes aiming for that but xfce is not the same user experience as gnome/kde even upstream so that transaltes here too09:07
janimoKeybuk, yes a few09:07
mjg59janimo: Sure, I realise that there are limitations09:07
janimoto packaging and to code in packages09:07
Keybukso you feel you know your way around Debian/Ubuntu packaging?  have you done much else besides XFCE?09:08
janimoKeybuk, some of the changes are not yet in debian, some are not upstream xfce either09:08
janimobut pushing them actively09:08
ograthere are even heavy technical differences between edubuntu/ubuntu (i.e. edubuntu installs a bunch odf server stuff which doesnt comply with the "no open ports" directive)09:08
ograso i wouldnt see the binding to tight 09:08
janimoKeybuk, I have been a MOTU since about before Hoary and worked on some merges back then09:08
janimobut since then it is mostly xfce related changes or new packages09:09
janimoall starting with xubuntu-09:09
mjg59janimo: Is there a reasonable xfce userbase right now?09:09
Keybukdholbach, ogra: have you worked with janimo much?09:09
janimosome in universe some only in REVU09:09
janimomjg59, I don;t know how to estimate that :)09:09
ograKeybuk, yes, for a while, he's a longstanding member of MOTU09:09
mjg59janimo: Heh. Well, do you get bugs filed?09:09
janimoI'd say 10%-15% of linux users?09:09
janimoduno honestly09:10
janimoyes09:10
janimobut xfce has a _lot_ less bugs then gnome/kde even upstream, it is a lot simpler09:10
mjg59Sure09:10
Keybukanyone else got any questions for janimo ?09:10
mjg59But it sounds like there are people using the packages, and from what ogra says it sounds like there would be good reason to have them in main09:10
janimomjg59, yes09:10
fabbionejanimo: are you familiar with security?09:11
janimoI get the occasional thank you eamail from time to time , with the request for CD images :)09:11
fabbioneif so how much?09:11
fabbionehow much can you commit for it?09:11
ogramjg59, absolutely ... we had a lightweight target for hoary already which wasnt completed, xubuntu might fill that gap09:11
janimofabbione, not much besides occasional peeks at bugtrack but I am cautios09:11
pittibtw, there has been one XFCE related vulnerability so far, in 200009:11
janimofabbione,commit for security?09:11
janimopitti, another code base xfce309:12
janimoso 0 actually :)09:12
pittijanimo: right, what I wanted to say is, that's damn few09:12
fabbionejanimo: if xubuntu enters main, it also means providing -security support. are you ready to commit to it?09:12
janimoshame on them09:12
ograheh09:12
janimofabbione, yes both secutiry and updates09:12
ograaccording to pitti that might be a boring job :)09:12
janimoindeed :)09:13
pittijanimo: does xfce ship with any suid programs for doing hardware magic? does it handle hardware at all?09:13
janimono suid programs09:13
pittijanimo: like automounting, networking, etc.?09:13
jdongpitti: I believe it uses g-v-m to handle those things09:13
Keybukmy one comment is that we work very much as a team, and so far you've been mostly working alone on these packages -- so once in main, you'll need to both help others work with your packages and also be ready to sponsor uploads for the MOTU ... are you happy with that?09:13
janimofor automounting we will use ivman now kubuntu does not09:13
janimojdong, no ivman09:13
jdongah, ok09:13
jdongbeen quite a while since I've used XFCE09:14
janimoKeybuk, I am happy09:14
ograKeybuk, he worked a lot with crimsun09:14
ograin a two man team09:14
ogra(its not the one man show it seems o be)09:14
Keybukmjg59: any further questions?09:14
pittithat's twice as big as our edubuntu and kubuntu teams :)09:14
janimoKeybuk I have been working alone since MOTUs are very busy with merging and their other teams09:14
ograpitti, yeah 09:15
janimocrimsun is swamped with multimedia related work09:15
mjg59janimo: It would be good to see work stick fairly closely with the Debian packagers, but I think you've said that you plan to work with them already09:15
sivangis this TB meeting?09:15
janimomjg59, I just got an alioth acount today to get svn commit access09:15
pittisivang: yes09:15
janimoto help pushing our changes up09:15
mjg59janimo: Cool09:15
mjg59Keybuk: Ok, I think I'm done09:16
Riddelljanimo: xfce has a file manager I believe.  does it have a web browser, music player, console? (to pick the apps I have open just now)09:16
pittijanimo: that's good, so the Debian maintainers acknowledge you as a co-maintainer then?09:16
Keybukok, your vote?09:16
janimoRiddell, I think we'll use thunar as  the default fimemanager09:16
mjg59+1 from me09:16
janimowe'll have firefox, xfmedai, xfce4-teminal09:16
Keybuk+1 from me also09:16
KeybukJanimo: welcome aboard09:16
pitticongrats janimo 09:16
janimothanks all :)09:16
ograYAY, welcome janimo 09:17
janimonice to join the team09:17
ogra:)09:17
mjg59Ok, moving on? How many developer candidates have we got today?09:17
janimoI'll probably help out with other main work if needed09:17
KeybukJohnny Mast, are you here?09:17
ajmitchjanimo: good work :)09:17
KeybukBrandon Hale, are you here?09:17
janimopitti, yes they are ok with me working close woth them09:17
ograKeybuk, tseng is already in ubuntu core09:18
Keybukyou know, I thought he was09:18
ogra(brandon hale)09:18
Keybukdidn't mentally match the name09:18
sivangwelcome janimo , to main? :)09:18
Keybukjdong: I can see you're here09:18
jdong:)09:18
janimosivang, yes :)09:18
Keybukok09:18
Keybukjdong: you've applied to join the MOTU team09:18
sivangjanimo: big congrets :)09:18
ograis vuntz here ? 09:18
jdongKeybuk: correct09:18
Keybukso, I guess, first off, what have you been working on so far and what would you like to work on?09:19
jdongWell, my work is primarily concentrated in Backports, and Backports does the most work in Universe09:19
jdongas a result, sometimes the Backports team needs to have changes done in Universe and such09:19
jdongcurrently, the Team has Mez and slomo who are on MOTU09:20
mjg59jdong: Is that "the most work in Universe" or "does most of its work in Universe"?09:20
jdongand at times that's not enough09:20
vuntzogra: I'm here, but I'm going away for ~30 minutes right now09:20
ogravuntz, just because you are on the list 09:20
jdongmjg59: a combination of both: Most requested packages are in Universe, and most "issues" we find are also stemming from Universe packages09:20
Keybukright, but you don't upload the resulting backports to universe?09:21
jdongno, I don't09:21
mjg59jdong: Your phrasing seemed to suggest that backports did more work in universe than any other group09:21
ograKeybuk, the process for backports is a bit different ...09:21
jdongmjg59: maybe I'm having a bad day with phrasing things :)09:21
mjg59jdong: Ok, as long as that's not what you meant, then fine :)09:21
ograKeybuk, elmo just triggeres them if jdong tested locally ...09:22
jdongand ogra has been nagging for me to join MOTU too :-D09:22
jdongever since day one09:22
Keybukogra: so you'd support jdong's application?09:22
mjg59jdong: So how would being an MOTU change things for you?09:22
ograjdong, but i can hardly judge your packaging skills ...09:22
ogramjg59, if changes have to be made to a package to backport fine, someone has to touch the package ...09:23
jdongmjg59: Well, first off I hope that it would mean less of me bitching at others... and I can do work without relying on others09:23
ogramjg59, so it would be a requirement to have one of the backporters being able to do that, Mez is rarely here recently, he wanted to take that role09:24
jdongogra: I'm pretty experienced with packaging, but not with the specific Debian tools used to upload and such09:24
mjg59jdong: Well, we'd prefer there to be no bitching regardless of the situation...09:24
jdongmjg59: I suppose _nagging_ would be a better word :)09:24
mjg59Heh. Sure.09:24
jdongmjg59: I'm known as the one who walks in to #ubuntu-motu just to ask for stuff to be done09:24
ograthe thing is that if a package needs minor changes, they have to be done (uploaded) by someone with upload rights ....09:25
ajmitchjdong: who has worked with you on packaging changes that can vouch for those skills?09:25
ograso that will either put a burden on MOTU or we get and uploader from the bp team09:25
jdongajmitch: that's the thing -- I haven't really needed to do anything of that magnitude with MOTU before09:25
jdongajmitch: usually the types of changes Backports needs are very minor09:26
jdongi.e. changing a version on b-d's, etc09:26
ograand i'd like to see jdong in that role since he merely leads backports ... but you would have to work a bit with the motu to prove your skills i public09:26
ogras/i/in09:26
jdongogra: yes, absolutely :)09:26
Keybukogra: would you preferred he worked with you before being granted upload rights?09:27
jdongogra: and I'll try to spend time working on other stuff in MOTU too09:27
\shg09:27
ograKeybuk, not particulary with me personally but with the MOTU team so he can get some votes for his knowledge09:27
\shevening...too late09:27
ajmitchhi \sh 09:28
Keybukok, I tend to concur; I'd prefer jdong to work a bit more with you guys so you feel confident about his skills first09:28
ograKeybuk, i simply cant judge his skills ince i never used any backport in ubuntu yet09:28
Keybukmjg59: what do you think?09:28
ograjdong, that would be rad :)09:28
mjg59I'm broadly in favour, but I'd agree with Keybuk - some more time doing general MOTU work would be good09:29
\shI agree with ogra...I think it's better to have an overview about his skills in common...09:29
\shfor this, he has to come more often to -motu09:29
Keybukjdong: would you mind working a bit more closely with the MOTU team, and come back at the next TB meeting when they should be able to praise your skills09:29
jdongKeybuk: sure09:29
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jdongI'll try to be in #ubuntu-motu more often09:30
jdongand follow what the guys there want me to do :)09:30
Keybukok, we'll postpone to then; your work looks great so far to me, but we're very much a team distro, so come to the next TB meeting with praise from the MOTU team for your work so far there09:30
jdongok, cool09:30
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Keybukok ... now is anyone else here waiting for universe upload privileges who hasn't made it to a meeting since they proposed themselves?09:31
\shjdong: work with us on the rest of the merges...and bug fixes has to be done soon. I think we agree to help you out with the uploads..so we can see your work 09:31
Keybukjbailey: are you fit and rebooted, or do you need a bit more time?09:31
jbaileyKeybuk: I'm rebooted.09:32
jdong\sh: absolutely I need much more packaging experience for MOTU :)09:32
Keybukok, Mirror Status, the floor is yours09:32
jdongI just want to take the first step today :)09:32
ograjdong, thats really great, i'm happy you do that :)09:32
mjg59jbailey: Can you explain what the problem is, and how we should deal with it?09:32
ogra(you know how log i nagged you for it ;) )09:32
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jdong:)09:33
jbaileymjg59: The mirrors occasionally have trouble, running out of space, or failing to update, etc.09:33
jbaileymjg59: Right now the only way to get this information is by pinging James or Karl directly.09:33
jdongmore than occasionally09:33
ograyes, the us mirror seems to be a PITA 09:33
elmojbailey: you realise there's LP specs about this, right?09:34
jbaileyThat means that getting this information is limited by timezones / availability of two people.09:34
jbaileyelmo: Right.  But that means that it's 6 months to a year away.09:34
elmojbailey: says who?09:34
jbaileyelmo: I don't remember seeing it on the priority list for dapper.09:34
jbaileyThe problem is right now when we know there are mirror problems, that information is not exposed in a useful way.09:35
Keybukso what would you propose instead of the LP spec?09:35
elmowhen was the last time US mirror was broken just out of interest?09:36
elmobecause AFAIK, it hasn't broken since we started pushing it with a two stage push09:36
jbaileyelmo: Mmm.  Right before ubz I think?09:36
elmoand that was ? weeks? ago09:36
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elmojbailey: ...09:36
jdongelmo: I got some md5sum mismatches fairly recently (2 weeks?)09:36
jbaileyelmo: This was intended to come up at the last TB meeting, which I couldn't make.09:36
Keybuktbh, I don't see anything here for the TB to decide09:36
Keybukthere's a LP spec for it, which is the long-term solution09:36
jbaileyKeybuk: mdz refered me to the TB09:36
Keybukand the short-term solution appears to be "ask elmo"09:37
jbaileyRight.09:37
elmojdong: dude, you tried to convince me you had md5sum mismatches for breezy on archive.u.c09:37
jbaileyI'm saying that short term solution isn't always useful.09:37
Keybukwhich is true for most of our archive management right now09:37
jdongelmo: Maybe my weeks are off :)09:37
jbaileyRight now that request is that we ask the archive administrators to keep a status board of some sort on mirror status so that known issues can be looked at right away.09:37
jdongelmo: but the first few weeks of Breezy's release09:37
elmojbailey: why on earth are you going to the TB in the first instance with this?09:38
ograwhich would be pre ubz09:38
jbaileyelmo: mdz refered me to the tb.09:38
Keybukimo, mdz should have referred you to elmo09:38
jbaileyWho ultimately makes the decisions about how these issues are handled?09:39
elmothe same person who ultimately makes all decisions?09:40
Keybukmdz, sabdfl, elmo, etc.09:40
jbaileySo it was probably refered here for discussion at a time when all the parties are generally available.  09:40
elmojbailey: in any event my point is that you didn't even try asking the people who currently run the mirrors09:40
elmowhich is, umm, nice09:40
elmoreally09:40
jdongI gotta run, be back in like 15-20 minutes, hopefully in time :)09:41
Keybukmjg59: anything from your corner?09:41
jbaileyelmo: My contact for distro things when driven by customers asking me questions is always mdz.09:41
elmojbailey: don't be obtuse09:41
mjg59Without knowing why mdz thought it should be brought up here, I'm not sure we can do too much09:41
elmoif a customer asked you about gcc, you'd go to doko, not mdz09:41
mjg59Can we punt this until mdz is around?09:41
jbaileyelmo: Actually, no.  I'd email mdz.09:41
jbaileyUnless it was somthing I thought could be answered very quickly.09:41
Keybukyeah, that's my best suggestion right now ... wait until mdz is back, to see whether he had any reason for bring it here09:41
elmowell maybe the TB should look at how you communicate with the distro team then ... 09:41
Keybukuntil then, jbailey: 1) make sure the LP spec meets your needs09:42
Kamionpresumably the idea of stuff going through mdz is so that mdz can manage how much distro team time is taken up by escalated support09:42
Keybukand 2) buy elmo some flowers, and ask him nicely?09:42
jbaileyKamion: Yes, as well as tracking and stuff.  Before he was a bit surprised that I had been asking the distro team for things and that he hadn't been aware of it.09:42
Keybukok, so the advisory list thing09:43
Keybukyou're suggesting some kind of process that involves compiling a list of packages in *-updates and what they chance?09:43
Keybukuh, change?09:43
Keybuksimilar to the existing security stuff?09:44
jbaileyRight - not necessarily a list, but an explanation or advisory by email as to why updates are coming out.09:44
pittioh, interesting idea09:44
jbaileyThe notification applet stuff isn't always sufficient to explain what's going on, or that it's coming.09:44
pittibut isn't apt-listchanges something that should come close?09:44
KamionCould amber be modified to do -updates?09:44
jbaileySo in some ways it can look like a security update that showed up without an advisory.09:44
Kamion(speaking as an occasional -updates approver, I don't want to have to construct those things by hand)09:45
jbaileyKamion: Right.  I don't have any suggestions as to the machanics of this.09:45
jbaileyCertainly I'd be willing to construct these for the -updates that I do and add them to the mix somehow.09:45
Keybukfrom my corner, yes something like this would be nice, propose it on #ubuntu-devel and rally people round to figure out how to do it09:45
pittiwell, for updates we maybe don't need md5sums and such; but still some template would be nice for version numbers etc.09:46
mjg59Right. I think it's reasonable to tell people why we're giving them an update.09:46
jbaileypitti: I'm not sure how a -update is different than a security patch in that sense.09:46
Keybukso +1 from me, sounds like a nice thing to do09:46
pittijbailey: well, as long as amber generates these, I don't particularly care09:47
jbaileypitti: In any event we're delivering them a package, so it would be nice to have the usual trappings.  md5sum is the easiest part to generate. =)09:47
Keybukmjg59: ?09:47
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mjg59+109:48
Keybukok09:48
Keybukjbailey: if you could lead discussion and implementation for it, go for it09:48
jbaileyNo problem, i'll follow that through.09:48
pittiKamion: how are -updates uploads published?09:48
Keybuknext thing on the agenda is me ...09:49
pittiKamion: certainly there is a girl for it which could be modified to spit out template emails?09:49
Keybukthis is probably a no-brainer, but I didn't want to go ahead and make such a change without at least checking with some other people first09:49
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ograKeybuk, breaking the wrold again ? 09:49
jbaileyMmmm.  Modified girl.09:49
jbailey(sounds ike an ingrediant)09:49
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Keybukcurrently there's no useful place during boot to put things like pid files, control sockets, dhcp leases, etc.09:49
pitti/var/run isn't useful?09:50
Keybuk/var/run should be that useful place, but it's either on the root filesystem and not yet r/w or on another filesystem altogether09:50
mjg59(See NFS-root cases)09:50
Keybukit's fine once in rc2.d, but in rcS.d it's sub-optimal09:50
jbaileyKeybuk: Is this one beast to add to your movemount collection?09:50
jbailey+more09:50
Keybukso my proposal is to make /var/run a tmpfs that's always available09:50
pittiKeybuk: when would you mount that?09:51
Keybukwhich would mean anything writing into a sub-directory of it would need to make that sub-directory if it doesn't already exist09:51
Kamionpitti: no it's just kelly -z09:51
Kamionpitti: which is just the thing that does accepted->installed09:51
Keybukpitti: probably in the initramfs, and moved to /root/var/run09:51
pittiKeybuk: if you mount it in initramfs, then a later mount of /var in fstab would shadow it, right? and mouting it late would defeat the purpose?09:51
Keybukthen if not already mounted, in the first init script09:51
Keybukand in the mountall script, if we mount /var as something else, so a move dance to keep it there09:52
pittiheh09:52
Keybukso that's it really, is this sane or should I go find some other solution?09:53
pittifor the records, we already fixed one or two packages to create /var/run/<package subdir>, but it certainly needs some more fixes to have complete coverage09:53
pittiLSB does allow for packages to rely on the existence of /var/run/directory, so it could give us some hard time with keeping up09:53
pitti(especially for universe)09:53
pittibut I didn't actually count the number of affected packages09:53
pittithe fix is trivial, though09:54
Keybuk*nods*09:54
mjg59Keybuk: So the main downside is that we may need to alter some packages that expect subdirectories to be persistant?09:55
\shpitti: if this can be done after UVF...no problem with me ,)09:55
pitti\sh: it's a trivial bug fix, sure09:55
Keybukmjg59: right09:55
pitti\sh: just a mkdir -p and a chmod/chown in the init script09:55
mjg59Keybuk: Hm. I worry a bit about it being a semantic change.09:55
\shpitti: so we need a list of all packages who are bringing in some init.d scripts...09:56
mjg59Keybuk: Do we have any idea how many packages it would break, and have you discussed this with Debian at all?09:56
pitti\sh: no, packages which put stuff into /var/run09:56
pitti\sh: and either ship a directory in /var/run, or create it in postinst09:56
Keybukin main, I've found only one or two that it breaks, and the Debian maintainer of both seemed happy to accept the patch09:56
fabbionethere are also packages that have /var/run/ in the code...09:56
Keybukmost of them already have patches to make it work09:56
mjg59Keybuk: Ok, sounds good09:57
pittisounds like 'early breakage'09:57
\shI need an aspirin, a tea, some drugs, and a list of packages for later..09:57
sivang\sh: this can add up to the list of remaining merges, or just add this when working on a merge :)09:58
sivangs/add/patch/09:58
Keybukok, any further business?09:59
Keybukjdong: are you here?09:59
\shsivang: if you have such a package to merge ... do it now...or after uvf and when all the merges are done09:59
ogra<jdong> I gotta run, be back in like 15-20 minutes, hopefully in time :)10:00
ograthat was 20min ago10:00
Keybukyeah, sadly I've got to run in a minute too :-/10:00
Keybukthe answer to jdong is the same as jbailey, make sure the LP spec is right10:00
Keybukseveral already exist, from what I can see10:01
ograi thought Mez worked on one at ubz10:01
Keybukok, end of meeting then10:01
Keybukthe next TB meeting will be in 4 weeks time I guess10:01
Keybukas two-weeks is the 27th10:01
mjg59Wow. That was swift.10:01
\shwell...I think there is no need for a new process...because elmo is processing all the request when he has time...and thats pretty often..10:01
Kamionoh, is there time for me to slot in one question?10:02
ograyup... and LP is near (somehow)10:02
Kamionforgot to put it on the agenda10:02
Keybukmeh, go on then10:02
jdongwere my minutes too long?10:02
Kamionif not, no worries10:02
Keybukis it quick?10:02
Kamionso Debian is in the middle of killing off base-config10:02
Kamionand moving the entire installation to the first stage10:02
Kamionthis would kill off a fair few of my bugs, so I'm inclined to follow suit10:02
pittithat sounds nice actually10:02
Kamionmy question is whether this is an utterly insane thing to do for dapper?10:03
Keybuksounds nice to me, we've already done some of that?10:03
Kamionyes, but not the big long package installation step10:03
Keybukultimately I think that's possibly your call ;)10:03
jdongKeybuk: you can drop my item from the agenda, I don't think it'll be necessary as of now10:03
Keybukyou'd judge better than anyone else whether it's doable10:03
Kamionthe downside is that it means that it takes longer to find out whether your newly-installed system actually boots10:03
jdongbtw elmo thx very much for pushing those backports through today!10:03
ograand it will slow down the installation, no ? since you do everything from CD ?10:04
KamionKeybuk: ok, I thought it was a big enough change that I ought to bring it up, but if that's your feeling then fine, I'll judge by how quickly the code matures upstream10:04
Kamionogra: no, actually it'll speed it up because we can throw away archive-copier10:04
ograah, k10:04
ograyes, thats a 10min step less ...10:04
Kamionthere'll be some extra seeking back and forward, but I think it'll be dwarfed10:04
=== sivang wil be waiting to test those images :)
Kamionrighto, thanks10:05
\shok..going back to sleep away my cold10:07
pittiok, seems we are done?10:07
jdong\sh: what a coincidence, lol10:08
\shjdong: well...after 2 years really avoiding a heavy illness...I think it's time to have a much more nicer cold, coming along with fever and body pain10:09
jdong\sh: intestinal flu with me here.... while suffering deep muscle stress... does not go together well10:09
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\shok...cu later...when I can't sleep anymore :)10:10
jdonghave fun10:10
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sivang\sh: get well!10:10
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JuHi all !10:25
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shawarmawhat the... was there just a TB meeting?10:45
shawarma"just"..10:45
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vuntzogra: ping?10:54
ogravuntz, ?10:54
vuntzI'm not sure of the list you were talking about :-)10:55
ograubuntu developers in launchpad10:55
vuntzah10:55
vuntzI thought I asked to be removed from it10:55
ogra(MOTU)10:55
vuntzcan you remove me from the list?10:55
ograi dont think so10:56
ograi have no admin rights there.... only th TB has10:56
vuntzokay10:56
vuntzI'll try to not forget to ask someone from the TB, then10:57
vuntzthanks10:57
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\shvuntz: why do you want to removed we need more people :)11:05
vuntzbecause I don't have time to join the group :/11:08
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dholbachvuntz: one day we'll have the post of a king for motu too... :)11:14
ogradholbach, we dont even have a crown yet ....11:15
ograstill a long way to go 11:15
dholbachyeah11:16
ajmitchwe have the face of motu, so why not a crown?11:16
ograajmitch, make one, we can make it a trophy for the biggest amount of uploads for one release :)11:17
ograindeed dholbach needs to get it belated first for his 400 hoary uploads ;)11:18
ajmitchogra: I'd better get working ;)11:18
ajmitch400 now?11:18
ograwasnt it 400 back then ? 11:19
dholbachoh nononono11:19
ajmitch200 iirc11:19
dholbachvuntzZz: is the king11:19
ajmitchI didn't even do that for breezy11:19
ogradholbach, for next release11:19
dholbachhe gets the crown11:19
ograhe already has the cool hat11:19
ograwhere should he wear the crown ? 11:20
slomo_on top of the hat :)11:23
ograhehe11:23
\shoh damn..I'm sick I shouldn't do merges11:28
\sh*coughcough*11:28
ajmitchyeah right11:29
ajmitchwe shouldn't take over -meeting too much ;)11:29
azeemI thought this *was* a meeting11:34
ajmitchit used to be11:34
azeemcouldn't be bothered to look up which one exactly11:34
azeemah11:34
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