[12:03] <MacFergus> ?
[12:03] <Kamion> jcole: we've never supported Ubuntu floppy installs because we've never managed to make them fit
[12:03] <Kamion> jcole: I believe some people have got them to work using Smart Boot Manager
[12:04] <Kamion> (and chaining to a CD install, though - dunno if it's possible with no CD-ROM at all, whether you can e.g. boot from a netboot image somewhere)
[12:05] <jcole> Kamion: oh ok... it doesn't have to fit on just one floppy... it could be 10 floppies, lol... as long as i can get ubuntu on it through the floppy drive (and ethernet connection)
[12:06] <Kamion> yeah, I know, but when the kernel doesn't fit on a floppy it just gets tedious
[12:07] <Kamion> ah, it does actually fit, it was probably another problem
[12:07] <Kamion> at any rate I could not make even the boot floppy fit
[12:07] <jcole> Kamion: ah, ic... how does redhat/fedora do it?
[12:08] <Simira> are there any easy way to remove a lot of duplicate files in a directory?
[12:08] <jcole> Kamion: i've got fedora on it right now
[12:08] <mdke_> Simira, #ubuntu might know
[12:08] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync php4-mcrypt php4-ps from debian unstable (ubuntu override okey), thanks :-)
[12:09] <Nafallo> Simira: Mithrandir might know :-)
[12:10] <Nafallo> (or should) ;-)
[12:10] <Simira> Nafallo : he's out beering with a friend. I am all alone tonight.
[12:11] <Nafallo> Simira: hehe, call him then? don't take his word on rm -f * though :-P
[12:12] <Simira> :p
[12:12] <jcole> Kamion: i created a "Kickstart" floppy with their gui software
[12:12] <dholbach> good night everybody
[12:12] <Simira> Nafallo : he won't be any good now, anyway. I just did it manually. For some reason, my mail setup failed to sort out my mail, and downloaded everything from one of my accounts
[12:12] <Simira> and I just realized I probably got all the lists as well... #%!#&"
[12:13] <Nafallo> Simira: oh, sounds like joy :-)
[12:13] <Nafallo> dholbach: gnight :-)
[12:14] <\sh> jcole: doesn't download the kickstart floppy all stuff from the net?
[12:15] <Kamion> jcole: I thought their floppy install used a rather older kernel
[12:15] <Kamion> like, 2.4 only or something
[12:16] <Kamion> I'm familiar with kickstart (implemented it for our installer) but that's somewhat orthogonal
[12:16] <jcole> \sh Kamion: i used this ---> http://fedora.redhat.com/projects/config-tools/redhat-config-kickstart.html
[12:16] <Kamion> yes, I'm familiar with it, it's irrelevant to floppy support
[12:17] <Kamion> I'll give floppy d-i builds another go at some point, see if I can make them work
[12:17] <ogra> you could do a netboot install 
[12:18] <Kamion> Fedora use a totally different installer so techniques tend not to be easily portable
[12:18] <ogra> (with a PXE etherboot floppy from rom-o-matic.net if your NIC doesnt support netbooting)
[12:18] <seb128> Kamion: is there still some GNOME issue for the CD?
[12:18] <Kamion> that tactic can work too if you have a handy server you can make be a TFTP/DHCP server
[12:19] <jcole> ogra: that's an idea
[12:19] <Kamion> seb128: http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/testing/dapper_probs.html still lists brokenness
[12:20] <seb128> Kamion: evolution has built, evolution-exchange needs a retry when it's available, nautilus-cd-burner Depends on cdrdao which has been accepted for promotion according to pitti's comment on the wiki page I guess somebody should promote it, nautilus-sendto ditto with gnome-bluetooth
[12:20] <Kamion> seb128: I've just given-back evolution-exchange, which should help a bit
[12:20] <Kamion> ok, I'll have a look through the promotion queue, thanks
[12:21] <seb128> np
[12:21] <Kamion> Mithrandir: here?
[12:23] <Kamion> Mithrandir: your casper upload was rejected due to distribution=unstable
[12:25] <Simira> Kamion : he's out beering
[12:27] <Kamion> Simira: hopefully he won't mind if I fix it and upload for him, then
[12:27] <Simira> Kamion : I guess not
[12:29] <jcole> Kamion ogra: thanks, i'm going to attempt the PXE boot solution... have a good day
[12:30] <ogra> jcole, good luck :)
[12:36] <lucas> somebody familiar with libapt-pkg ?
[12:37] <lucas> my problem: does it allow to select which "cache" an application wants to use ?
[12:37] <lucas> I'd like to do what apt-rdepends do one a Packages file I just download manually, for example Debian's one.
[12:37] <lucas> s/one a Packages file/on a Packages file/
[12:39] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync linuxdcpp from debian unstable (ubuntu override okey), thanks :-)
[12:45] <Kamion> lucas: apt supports various configuration options to change where it gets files, including that sort of thing (you'd have to construct a temporary sources.list, point it at that with a temporary cache, and update); see apt.conf(5)
[12:46] <lucas> yup, that's what I was reading
[12:46] <lucas> what's your opinion about python-apt ?
[12:46] <lucas> does it include everything apt supports ?
[12:47] <lucas> or should I go directly with C++ ?
[12:47] <Kamion> I don't have an "opinion" about it; I use it from time to time, seems fine
[12:47] <lucas> ok
[12:47] <Kamion> it's probably a hell of a lot easier than using C++
[12:47] <Kamion> the apt_pkg module is closer to the C++ interface, but less pythonic
[12:47] <Kamion> there's a new apt module in recent python-apt which I'm told is more pythonic, but I've never used that
[12:48] <lucas> the apt module seems very far from being complete
[12:48] <ogra> lucas, but what you try to do sounds a bit like what gdebi does already ...
[12:48] <lucas> ogra: mmh, not sure
[12:49] <ogra> probably wotrh a look at its source ...
[12:49] <lucas> ogra: can you explain ?
[12:49] <ogra> its the one click deb installer from mvo ...
[12:50] <lucas> ah, it uses python-apt
[12:50] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/bzr/gdebi--main/
[12:51] <lucas> there are a lot of examples provided with python-apt, but none of them covers changing the configuration to download the pkg lists elsewhere, etc
[12:52] <doko> infinity, lamont-away: please requeue gjdoc (on all archs)
[01:07] <lucas> ah ah, very cool
[01:07] <lucas> using the -o option of apt-*, it's very easy to fetch & debian's apt files on ubuntu
[01:14] <slomo_> infinity, lamont-away: please give-back evolution-sharp, thanks :)
[01:25] <johnl> hey, I tested the new 2.6.15 kernel on my breezy box
[01:26] <johnl> opened a pandoras box of shit
[01:28] <johnl> it's not so much the kernel, which worked on one box, it's more about trying to go back to the old breezy kernel
[01:29] <mdke> jdub, what is the status with planet ubuntu and synching?
[01:29] <BenC> johnl: old kernel should work as long as you don't update the old initrd with new udev
[01:29] <johnl> firmware won't load now for my ipw2200, /dev/input missing, synaptics driver not working
[01:29] <BenC> well, then there's that too
[01:29] <BenC> yeah, there's not much for partial upgrades at this point
[01:29] <BenC> you go, or you don't, there's no middle :)
[01:30] <mdke> GO!
[01:30] <johnl> doh.
[01:30] <mdke> dude, you're testing dapper: this is no holding back time
[01:30] <BenC> new udev, minus hotplug, just isn't breezy friendly
[01:30] <johnl> thing is, now I've completely moved back to breezy, downgraded back to breezy packages and it's still dead
[01:30] <johnl> reinstall hotplug (I noticed the new udev is doing that now)
[01:30] <BenC> install hotplug
[01:31] <johnl> I mean, I have done :)
[01:31] <BenC> sorry, we don't support downgrading :)
[01:31] <johnl> and dpkg-reconfigure'd the kernel image
[01:31] <johnl> ok, fair enough
[01:31] <BenC> oh, that was a bad idea
[01:32] <johnl> tbh, I've got a pretty good handle on how all this usually works, but I'm stumped on this
[01:32] <johnl> just wonder if I've run into other, as yet undiscovered problems
[01:32] <johnl> I know this isn't #ubuntu :)
[01:32] <johnl> sorry
[01:32] <mdke> johnl, i guess #ubuntu, forums or a reinstall are the best options
[01:33] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont-away: ping
[01:33] <johnl> ok, thanks anyway guys :(
[01:33] <Kamion> installing with dpkg --force-confmiss might help, there's a lot of stuff in /etc
[01:33] <BenC> yeah, especially hotplug
[01:34] <johnl> Kamion: ah yeah, that might explain the missing hotplug init scripts :)
[01:34] <johnl> cool, I'll give that a go on them all
[01:34] <johnl> nice one
[01:34] <Nafallo> anywhere I can see if a package is in p-a-s?
[01:35] <johnl> on hotplug I used dpkg --unpack, and manually mv'ed the initscripts back into place, hehe
[01:35] <Kamion> argh
[01:35] <Kamion> don't do that
[01:35] <Kamion> at least use dpkg --configure afterwards if you do
[01:35] <johnl> didn't know about force-confmiss
[01:35] <johnl> ah, I just apt-get install --reinstalled after :)
[01:36] <johnl> ok, I'm on it now.  ta
[01:37] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont-away: unping
[01:47] <Kamion> ok, {ubuntu,edubuntu}-desktop should be installable again in about half an hour
[01:53] <ogra> yay
[01:58] <daniels> Kamion: anything I can do to be useful today?
[02:01] <ogra> daniels, fix the trident driver ? 
[02:01] <ogra> daniels, btw,nv works fine for thin clients, it seems to be driver specific
[02:02] <Nafallo> daniels: rebuild openal to get rid of libsmpeg0c2? ;-)
[02:02] <Kamion> daniels: xserver-xorg-driver-via FTBFS which I suspect is what's breaking my test laptop (#20191)
[02:03] <Kamion> daniels: I'll fix that one if you like since I've got the hardware here
[02:03] <ogra> daniels, aother thing i (and mdz as well) would really apreciate (not today though) would be if you could take a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/fixes/debian/ltsp-client.ltsp-client-setup.init and tell us what can and wat cant work at all from the debconf preseeding we do for xorg ...
[02:04] <ogra> seems the majority of options is ignored ... :/
[02:06] <Kamion> daniels: GL/glxint.h includes GL/gl.h; would the best way to fix the via FTBFS be to make x11proto-gl-dev depend on mesa-common-dev?
[02:06] <Kamion> hm, or possibly mesa-common-dev | libgl1-dev
[02:06] <daniels> ogra: what's wrong with trident, again?
[02:07] <ogra> daniels, i filed you a bug some days ago ...
[02:07] <daniels> Kamion: needs a dep on libgl1-mesa-dev | libgl1-dev
[02:07] <ogra> havent gotten around to debug more yet ... 
[02:07] <daniels> Kamion: m-c-d isn't a libgl1-dev alternative
[02:07] <Kamion> ok - it's what provides GL/gl.h which is why I mentioned it
[02:07] <ogra> its not important for life, Kamion has priority in any case here
[02:08] <daniels> Kamion: want me to do that now?
[02:08] <daniels> Kamion: (or you can if you like)
[02:08] <Kamion> daniels: yeah, if you would
[02:08] <daniels> Kamion: coming right up
[02:09] <daniels> uploaded
[02:12] <daniels> Kamion: anything else? :)
[02:13] <Kamion> daniels: oh, why in via rather than in the package containing the include file?
[02:13] <Kamion> that's all I have for now since my test laptop works once I build that package for it
[02:13] <daniels> ogra: 20563> without a backtrace, there's really nothing at all I can do
[02:13] <daniels> Kamion: mumble build loops mumble depends wrong way up the chain mumble handave mumble
[02:14] <Kamion> heh
[02:14] <daniels> 'handwave', even
[02:14] <Kamion> oh, right, forgot that mesa build-depended on x11proto-gl-dev
[02:14] <Kamion> lucky I didn't try to fix it :)
[02:14] <daniels> heh
[02:18] <Kamion> daniels: anastacia wants to demote xdmx-tools and xserver-xorg-input-magictouch; should they be seeded or demoted?
[02:18] <daniels> Kamion: demote and seed respectively
[02:18] <daniels> actually probably seed both
[02:19] <Kamion> I just demoted xdmx-tools after noting that xdmx was in universe
[02:19] <Kamion> I can put it back
[02:19] <daniels> oh
[02:19] <daniels> if xdmx is in universe, then -tools should be too
[02:19] <Kamion> well, it's in universe because it isn't seeded :)
[02:20] <Kamion> I personally don't care either way
[02:20] <Kamion> hmm, none of the other xserver-xorg-* are seeded
[02:20] <daniels> demote it for now, I'll deal with it later
[02:20] <Kamion> perhaps this one should be added as a dependency somewhere
[02:20] <Kamion> demote> done
[02:21] <daniels> hm, if anastacia wants to kick it out, then I'd imagine it needs to be a dependency of xserer-xorg
[02:21] <daniels> i'll fix that when I get around to making the first xorg upload for dapper
[02:21] <Kamion> that would do, thanks
[02:21] <Kamion> no rush
[02:22] <Nafallo> daniels: didn't you upload that first thing when dapper was opened? ;-)
[02:22] <daniels> Nafallo: the 'xorg' source package has never been uploaded to dapper
[02:22] <daniels> right now, it still wants to build the entire monolith
[02:22] <daniels> Kamion: ta
[02:22] <Nafallo> daniels: ah, oki :-)
[02:24] <daniels> luckily either our configuration infrastructure isn't screwed, or people aren't complaining about it being screwed
[02:25] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:35] <johnl> gah, fixed it.  after all that, it was just symlinks missing in /etc/udev/rules.d
[02:36] <johnl> no amount of reinstalling udev or hotplug packages caused those to be recreated.  strangely
[02:36] <johnl> not even udev.rules was symlinked.
[02:41] <johnl> nnight folks.  thanks again
[02:49] <Nafallo> elmo: please sync php4-interbase from debian unstable (ubuntu override okey), thanks :-)
[03:35] <elmo> Kamion: ?
[03:36] <Kamion> elmo: yo
[03:37] <elmo> Kamion: I realise you probably care about most anything else right now, but fyi little hit red line on disk space.  however, don't delete stuff you don't want to, put it (or a list of it) somewhere for m e and I'll rsync it to the storage array of death
[03:38] <elmo> (s/don't/when you do get round to fixing it - no rush -, \&/) - typing while swapping sucks
[03:41] <Kamion> elmo: ~cjwatson/old-images would be perfect to archive off any time you're ready
[03:41] <Kamion> 86296548        old-images/
[03:41] <elmo> \sh_away: the problem with istanbul is that the orig.tar.gz's in debian and ubuntu don't match
[03:42] <Kamion> I've been keeping stuff there for a while
[03:43] <elmo> ok, syncing
[03:43] <BenC> anyone using 2.6.15 kernel from dapper and ata_piix module?
[03:43] <elmo> kamion: er, tho that'll do amusing things to little's IO - lemme know if that is/becomes a problem
[03:44] <Kamion> elmo: hmm, ok, probably all right for now
[03:45] <crimsun> BenC: lsmod seems to say that here
[03:45] <crimsun> BenC: (presuming you mean 2.6.15-8.10)
[03:45] <BenC> yeah
[03:45] <BenC> it's working for you with drives then?
[03:45] <crimsun> BenC: yep
[03:46] <BenC> any messages in kern.log?
[03:46] <crimsun> anything in particular I should grep for?
[03:47] <BenC> if it's not full of ataX messages, then it's good :)
[03:47] <infinity> BenC : I am, but I haven't upgraded the laptop to -8.10 yet.  Let me do that now.
[03:47] <crimsun> BenC: only the one (for this x41-2527) on boot for "ata1: dev 0 configured for UDMA/100"
[03:49] <Kamion> elmo: little's mirror-updating ssh to mirnyy hangs
[03:50] <Kamion> magellanic doesn't seem startlingly fast to respond either
[03:51] <Kamion> although gets there in the end, sometimes
[03:51] <bmonty> elmo: thanks for processing my sync requests from the other night, but i think you might have missed bayonne
[03:51] <Kamion> elmo: taking mirnyy out of the list for now, unless you shout and tell me it's vital
[03:51] <Kamion> iirc it's just releases which isn't getting modified at the moment
[04:06] <elmo> Kamion: mirnyy's out of rotation anyways - knock yourself out
[04:06] <elmo> is flight-2 due to be released tonight?
[04:07] <elmo> if so, oh dear, our ISP are going to cry
[04:08] <Kamion> elmo: probably tomorrow morning rather than me actually killing myself. What's wrong with our ISP?
[04:08] <maswan> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/
[04:08] <elmo>    bayonne |   1.2.15-1 | dapper/universe | source, i386, powerpc, sparc
[04:08] <maswan> that's mirrored daily, only release-like directories though
[04:08] <maswan> btw, what kernel is flight-2 based on?
[04:09] <Kamion> maswan: if I can get a special trigger at a time roughly of my choosing tomorrow, I can link to that from the announcement
[04:09] <Kamion> maswan: 2.6.15-8.10
[04:09] <maswan> Kamion: sure, at least if I'm awake. :)
[04:10] <maswan> Kamion: awesome, then I'll have to try an install. I have hardware that doesn't find the sata on <2.6.15
[04:10] <Kamion> maswan: ta
[04:10] <bmonty> elmo: oops, sorry...I must have missed the ACCEPTED email
[04:14] <elmo> infinity/lamont: ?
[04:15] <infinity> elmo : Yes?
[04:16] <infinity> elmo : king drive space?
[04:16] <infinity> (and weddell, looks like)
[04:16] <infinity> I'll tidy.
[04:17] <elmo> infinity: cute
[04:21] <infinity> elmo : What's your yellow/redline on the livefs hosts? (king, weddell, royal, terranova)
[04:22] <elmo> infinity: /etc/nagios/nrpe.cfg
[04:22] <elmo> they haven't been well customized, some of them, esp. on non .5Tb hosts may not be especially suitable
[04:24] <infinity> Yeah.  Only terranova is .5TB.
[04:24] <infinity> Would have been nice if the other three were too, but oh well.
[04:24] <infinity> Alternately, perhaps I should archive all livefs images to terranova, or something equally silly.
[04:24] <elmo> most of them could have more if they need it, tho king would need a better machine to fit more disk
[04:26] <stub> launchpad will be going down in 10 mins, which will also put the wiki's into read only mode. Estimated down time is 45 mins.
[04:38] <daniels> hm, where's seb128 when you need him
[04:38] <daniels> my panel just hung
[05:01] <Kamion> please test http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily/current/ and http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/ and report any failures to me, either here, in /msg, or by e-mail (cjwatson@ubuntu.com)
[05:02] <Kamion> bonus points for causing safe, correct, and obvious fixes for said failures to be uploaded
[05:02] <elmo> now you're just being greedy
[05:03] <Kamion> powerpc live isn't there yet, but will be in under half an hour (it was bitten by a stupid build failure, rebuilding)
[05:03] <mgalvin> already downloaded, burning cd now... :)
[05:04] <Kamion> huh, no, don't bother with live I think I broke it; fixing
[05:05] <mgalvin> i only grabbed the installer cd anyway
[05:05] <Kamion> that should be fine
[05:11] <Kamion> ok, better, try live CDs in about half an hour from now
[05:12] <Kamion> I'm going to crash 'cos 18-hour days suck
[06:14] <fabbione> morning
[06:16] <calc_> shouldn't file roller appear in alacarte to be able to be reenabled?
[06:18] <calc_> its not showing up for me, but nautilus does, not sure why though
[06:18] <calc_> i mean nautilus shows in alacarte with the check box empty allowing you to enable it if you want it back
[06:24] <dream> hi , anyone ?
[06:24] <dream> anyone here?
[06:25] <dream> anyone can help me ? : ( .
[06:25] <desrt> ?
[06:26] <dream> hi desrt
[06:26] <desrt> hello dream
[06:26] <dream> i have a question, would like to help me ? : ) /
[06:26] <desrt> do you have a question?
[06:26] <dream> yes
[06:27] <desrt> have you read the topic?
[06:27] <dream> topic?
[06:27] <dream> what topic? 
[06:27] <desrt> the channel topic.  what is your question?
[06:28] <dream> oh
[06:28] <dream> i wanna know in ubuntu installation CD, which script can detect my scsi device
[06:28] <dream> and modprobe it ? .
[06:28] <desrt> you're better off asking in #ubuntu
[06:28] <desrt> it's more active with people who can help you
[06:28] <calc_> jdub: liked your take on the interesting thread today :)
[06:29] <calc_> jdub: at least in what you said in your reply to dave on the blog
[06:29] <dream> oh , but someone suggest me ask question here : ( .
[06:30] <dream> i wanna know in ubuntu installation CD, which script can detect my scsi device and modprobe it , where is the script in initrd of ubuntu installation CD? : ) .
[06:30] <calc_> dream: look at it?
[06:30] <dream> can you help me ? desrt
[06:30] <calc_> its fairly trivial to load a correct module for a pci device
[06:31] <calc_> i used to have one line of bash that did it
[06:31] <elmo> what modules should I see for a BCM4318 (AirForce One 54G) wirless card?
[06:32] <dream> calc_ but i wanna to develop a linux installation CD , so i wanna know 
[06:32] <calc_> elmo: there are new open source drivers for them
[06:32] <fabbione> dream: you have been answered already 2 times.
[06:32] <calc_> elmo: otherwise you need to use the ndiswrapper stuff
[06:32] <dream> so i wanna know  where is the script in initrd of ubuntu installation CD? : ) .
[06:32] <fabbione> dream: please stop spamming this channel
[06:32] <elmo> calc: ok, thanks
[06:32] <dream> fabbione sorry : ) .
[06:32] <calc_> elmo: aiui 2.6.15 may already have the broadcom driver
[06:33] <elmo> bugger - I wonder if I even have a cat 5 anymore
[06:33] <fabbione> elmo: we already have it in dapper, but i didn't get it to work on ppc yet.
[06:33] <calc_> i yanked mine during the non supported time and installed an intel 2915abg :)
[06:33] <elmo> fabbione: hmm, this is on an x86 laptop
[06:33] <elmo> actually it's an amd64 laptop but I downloaded the wrong CD
[06:33] <elmo> <-- winn0r
[06:33] <fabbione> elmo: oh ok.. than it should do
[06:33] <calc_> elmo: same here
[06:33] <elmo> fabbione: yeah, but not in the installer right?  I mean I don't have the windows drivers :)
[06:34] <calc_> i need to put my old nic back in and see how it works soon
[06:34] <fabbione> no, it's not in the installer
[06:34] <fabbione> elmo: and it's not the windrv
[06:34] <elmo> fabbione: .. for ndis?
[06:34] <elmo> oh, you mean the new one
[06:34] <fabbione> i am talking about the free driver
[06:34] <elmo> don't mind me, it's late here
[06:34] <fabbione> i don't.. it's damn early here
[06:35] <fabbione> if it is for your use only, you need dapper...
[06:35] <fabbione> and be aware that's not exactly stable
[06:35] <elmo> fabbione: this is dapper, pre-test of flight-2
[06:35] <elmo> so should be latest kernel
[06:36] <fabbione> ok
[06:36] <fabbione> bcm43xx.ko <- the winner
[06:37] <fabbione> it will mostlikely ask for the firmware
[06:37] <elmo> hmm, "module bcm43xx not found"
[06:37] <fabbione> lib/modules/2.6.15-8-amd64-k8/kernel/drivers/net/wireless/bcm43xx$ 
[06:37] <mgalvin> ok, so the 14.1 iso still does not detect the hard drives on my laptop 
[06:38] <mgalvin> fabbione: that mini iso was able but this flight 2 candidate does not
[06:38] <fabbione> mgalvin: meh... sorry i can't remember the details..
[06:39] <fabbione> elmo: if you have the normal kernel, it's there...
[06:39] <mgalvin> qosmio g25 laptop w/ sata raid, hard drives do not get detected
[06:39] <fabbione> ok, how did we solve it?
[06:39] <mgalvin> you had send me a link to a mini.iso that was able to detect them
[06:40] <mgalvin> s/send/sent/
[06:40] <fabbione> that was the netinstall from archive
[06:40] <fabbione> wasn't it?
[06:40] <mgalvin> http://archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/main/installer-i386/current/images/netboot/
[06:40] <fabbione> yes
[06:40] <fabbione> can you try that one again?
[06:40] <fabbione> it has been updated
[06:40] <fabbione> so don't trash the old one
[06:41] <yi> daniels: when can we get to play with xorg 7.0 rc3? :)
[06:41] <mgalvin> ok, give me a sec to try it again, gotta run in a few min though
[06:41] <mojo> daniels: ya, I am looking forward to it 2
[06:44] <mojo> ubuntu documentation team forgot to put in details on 'About this Document' for About Ubuntu entry again
[06:48] <mojo> it doesn't make much sense to have Epiphany relies on Firefox. Can't we come up with better package solution?
[06:52] <mgalvin> fabbione: that new mino iso DOES find them
[06:52] <mgalvin> sorry gotta run for now, later
[07:24] <elmo> fabbione: fyi, I get "Invalid PHY Revision 7" trying the modprobe from the installed system
[07:26] <fabbione> that's normal
[07:26] <fabbione> ignore it
[07:26] <fabbione> actually.. mjg59 gave me a hint to make that thing working. let me find it somewhere
[07:27] <fabbione> elmo: Dec 06 17:56:09 mjg59   iwconfig foo essid bar; iwconfig foo channel baz; ifconfig foo up; iwlist scan; iwconfig foo essid bang
[07:27] <fabbione> you might need to tickle the driver that way to make it working
[07:27] <fabbione> also.. force it to 11Mb
[07:28] <elmo> ah, ok, will play later, thanks - atm, still trying to get X :)
[07:28] <fabbione> iwconfig foo rate 11M
[07:28] <fabbione> no problem
[07:59] <jsgotangco> haha heavy metal for human beings
[08:09] <Aegir> Quick Q, is Dapper still using 2.6.15.7? I had to revert to 2.6.15.6 after some rather funky HDD errors (I thought my laptops hdd was getting shonky).
[08:10] <infinity> 2.6.15-8 now.
[08:22] <dholbach> good morning developers
[08:24] <Aegir> infinity: Righto, thanks for that. I would check myself, but apt-get is held at the moment.
[08:25] <infinity> dholbach : New gnome-terminal loves me.
[08:25] <dholbach> ROCK!
[08:25] <infinity> dholbach : Thanks, dude.
[08:25] <pitti> Good morning
[08:25] <dholbach> pitti: you happy too with gnome-terminal? :)
[08:25] <dholbach> and then i only need to ask jbailey, if he's happy
[08:26] <infinity> You might want to phrase it differently, or you're likely to get a sarcastic response like "I've never been happy..."
[08:26] <infinity> Well, you would have if you'd asked ME that. :)
[08:26] <dholbach> infinity: i'm to optimistic for that :)
[08:26] <dholbach> s/to/too
[08:27] <infinity> I've noticed.
[08:27] <dholbach> haha :)
[08:27] <pitti> dholbach: yes, it works again, thanks!
[08:27] <StevenK> infinity: Does said rocket fuel have a name?
[08:27] <infinity> StevenK : SOLO!
[08:28] <StevenK> Oh, evil.
[08:28] <dholbach> the funny thing about the fix is: the guy whose patch i reverted complained, that suddenly ubuntu's gnome-terminal had gone weird ;)
[08:28] <StevenK> infinity: You're better off shooting up with sugar.
[08:28] <infinity> Sucks to be him.
[08:29] <infinity> Who says I'm not?
[08:30] <StevenK> infinity: But ... Solo tastes like, well, crap.
[08:57] <daniels> yi: it's broken as shit
[08:57] <daniels> yi: server appears to be totally dead
[08:57] <daniels> yi: but definitely not until after flight 2
[09:00] <dholbach> daniels: did you hear anything weird about xdamage/xfixes in the last time?
[09:02] <dholbach> daniels: i tried to build gnome-mag with xfixes/xdamage support. on breezy it worked nicely and on dapper it painted the whole part of the "magnified screen" grey :)
[09:04] <daniels> dholbach: cool :) could be the fbCompositeGeneral breakage, since that seems to be pretty world-ending for most things really
[09:05] <dholbach> oh i see. will you give the signal, when i should try it again? :)
[09:06] <daniels> yeah, will do
[09:06] <dholbach> merci beaucoup
[09:08] <daniels> np
[09:23] <pitti> Kamion: thanks for the analysis of the gfxboot issue
[09:53] <pitti> Kamion: when you arrive, can we have a quick discussion about that cupsys-driver-gimpprint failure?
[09:53] <elmo> pitti: Kamion went to bed at like 3 or 4 am, I doubt he'll be up anytime soon
[09:54] <pitti> uh, ok; thanks
[09:58] <Mithrandir> elmo: he was active on -boot 30 minutes ago.  Have to drive Kirsten etc, but he'll be back afterwards.
[09:58] <Mithrandir> he might be mostly interested in getting flight out today, though.
[09:59] <pitti> right, and that cupsys issue breaks livecd builds
[09:59] <pitti> that's why I want to solve it today
[10:03] <infinity> pitti : No, it doesn't break the builds.  I did a few uploads to fix that...
[10:03] <infinity> But it doesn't make cupsys any less broken.
[10:03] <pitti> infinity: fix the -driver-gimpprint issue?
[10:04] <pitti> infinity: I just saw that you use invoke-rc.d now
[10:04] <pitti> but does that make a difference?
[10:04] <infinity> Yes.  It was breaking livefs builds, so I uploaded fixes for both gimp-print and cupsys, IIRC.
[10:04] <infinity> (different fixes)
[10:04] <infinity> Oh, right, the cupsys fix was just a linking issue, so gimp-print could build.
[10:05] <infinity> Anyhow, invoke-rc.d fixes the livefs build, because we divert invoke-rc.d during the build (and invoke-rc.d is just The Right Thing To Do anyway)
[10:05] <infinity> But obviously cupsys segfaulting is still Very Bad.
[10:05] <pitti> I see
[10:05] <pitti> oh, it segfaults?
[10:05] <infinity> Or something.
[10:05] <pitti> that wasn't obvious from the install log
[10:05] <infinity> I forget.
[10:06] <pitti>  * Restarting Common Unix Printing System: cupsd
[10:06] <pitti> cupsd: Child exited on signal 15!
[10:06] <pitti> dpkg: error processing cupsys-driver-gimpprint (--configure):
[10:06] <StevenK> Whee, SIGTERM
[10:06] <infinity> Oh, right.  Not a segv.
[10:06] <pitti> infinity: I'm looking for the cause of that, but I can't reproduce it in a chroot
[10:06] <infinity> It's TERMing itself.
[10:06] <pitti> well, you force-reload it, so what else should it do?
[10:06] <infinity> pitti : I could reproduce it sometimes, not at others.  I'll see if I can come up with a recpie.
[10:07] <pitti> I tried in a current clean dapper with and without locales, but only amd64 so far
[10:07] <infinity> Oh, looking at that also exposed another cupsys evil, IIRC... I think it's one of those nasty packages that, during upgrade, tries to kill EVERY cupsd it can find, including ones outside the chroot.
[10:07] <pitti> bah, mvo, apt-get source sucks; it keeps downloading orig.tar.gzs that I already have... :(
[10:08] <pitti> infinity: it does that as a last resort, when the daemon does not want to die
[10:08] <pitti> I'll look into it
[10:08] <infinity> "as a last resport" meaning "any time it sees processes still running"?
[10:08] <infinity> Cause it killed my base system cupsd every single time.
[10:08] <StevenK> infinity: "Feature"
[10:08] <pitti> yes, seems so
[10:09] <infinity> A pidfile would be good there. :)
[10:09] <pitti> ... and now that I have commit access to debian, I'll fix it there, too :)
[10:09] <infinity> Compare running cupsd with pidfile, don't kill it if they don't match.
[10:09] <infinity> (or complex walking around in /proc, if you're so inclined)
[10:10] <pitti> infinity: well, that won't tell apart processes in and outside of the chroot, right?
[10:11] <Kamion> pitti: it didn't break the last install CD test I tried so I'm ignoring it
[10:11] <infinity> Somewhere in /proc/<pid>/*, there's some clever way to compare your current root with the process root or something.  I forget how.
[10:12] <pitti> ok, great
[10:12] <infinity> (I just use pid file comparisons, and call it "good enough")
[10:12] <StevenK> steven@broken:~% sudo readlink /proc/1/root
[10:12] <StevenK>  /
[10:12] <pitti> infinity: right
[10:12] <StevenK> Damn IRC, eating my slash.
[10:14] <Kamion> Riddell: Kubuntu install CDs ready for you to test
[10:14] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu install CDs ready for you to test
[10:19] <pitti> Kamion: I fixed the language-support packages for the removed/new firefox locale packages; this should make the three suport packages mentioned in dapper_probs installable again
[10:19] <pitti> Kamion: however, there are also some new ffox locales which require promotion love
[10:20] <Kamion> ok, will check
[10:20] <pitti> (I just uploaded them, will take a while)
[10:20] <pitti> anything else that immediately breaks flight 2?
[10:21] <pitti> Riddell: could you please fix kde-i18n-hsb to depend on kdelibs4c2a instead of c2?
[10:24] <Kamion> pitti: dunno yet, I've had exactly one test report
[10:25] <Kamion> elmo: hmm, was that definitely a current image? I could have sworn I'd fixed the localechooser thing
[10:25] <Kamion> (and the fix worked for me elsewhere)
[10:26] <elmo> Kamion: it was daily/current/ from cdimage
[10:30] <Kamion> elmo: could you make installer/syslog world-readable?
[10:30] <pitti> Kamion: oh, is it on purpose that the daily/current symlink is out of date?
[10:30] <elmo> Kamion: done
[10:31] <Kamion> pitti: MEH
[10:31] <pitti> hm, works now, must have been a proxy problem; sorry
[10:31] <Kamion> ah, no, it indeed isn't out of date
[10:31] <pitti> jigdo didn't upload anything new
[10:31] <Kamion> don't scare me like that :)
[10:32] <pitti> Kamion: reloading in the browser did help; bloody proxy of my provider...; sorry again
[10:32] <Kamion> elmo: can you boot that image again quickly and tell me which version of localechooser is in /var/lib/dpkg/status?
[10:33] <Kamion> elmo: actually, don't bother, it's logged
[10:33] <Kamion> 0.22ubuntu2, hmm, that's broken
[10:34] <Kamion> elmo: current image has 0.22ubuntu4; what's the md5sum of the image you've got?
[10:36] <Kamion> 0d9e641668e2235741b73645495fe1f4  dapper-install-i386.iso
[10:36] <Kamion> ^-- current
[10:42] <elmo> 87253debf01d9c2dae765b7bf7fb8403  dapper-install-i386.iso
[10:42] <elmo> I got daily/current, I swear :P
[10:43] <Kamion> that's the md5sum for 20051213.2
[10:44] <Kamion> could be that daily/current *was* OOD for a while, if so probably until 4:00 UTC
[10:44] <pitti> . o O {odd, that's the same version my daily/current pointed to this morning}
[10:44] <Kamion> maybe an OOD mirror
[10:44] <Kamion> ?
[10:44] <Kamion> the daily/current timestamp on little is dated 4:00
[10:45] <elmo> I probably hit mirnyy
[10:45] <elmo> blah
[10:45] <elmo> can you trigger mirnyy?
[10:45] <elmo> I was wrong about it being out of rotation
[10:45] <Kamion> done
[10:45] <Kamion> and put back in sync-mirrors now that it seems to work
[11:21] <pitti> infinity: I think I sanitized cupsys; do you want to look at the diff? http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5746
[11:23] <mvo> Kamion: I'm just testing the current live-cd. very nice splah. is there a way to clean the screen before going to "boot from first harddisk"? it's a bit messed right now
[11:24] <Kamion> mvo: I fixed that yesterday; I think you might have an old image ...
[11:25] <Kamion> check whether you were bitten by the above mirror problem
[11:25] <mvo> I have 20051214.1 
[11:25] <Kamion> hmm, odd
[11:25] <mvo> but it stops with a kernel panice "can't open /scripts/casper"
[11:25] <Kamion> can you describe how it looks after you select that option?
[11:26] <Kamion> yeah, that one's known, infinity's regenerating the filesystems
[11:26] <Kamion> (live CDs are unfortunately b0rked b0rked b0rked at the moment)
[11:26] <Kamion> amd64 rescue mode broken, gfxboot-theme-ubuntu bug, fixing
[11:27] <mvo> ok, no problem. here is what it looks like: green font, in the background I still see "F2 Languages, F3 Other Options, .." and parts of the menu
[11:27] <Kamion> hmm, very odd, I definitely added code to syslinux to tear down gfxboot so that must not be working
[11:27] <Kamion> which arch?
[11:28] <mvo> i386
[11:28] <mvo> it's a radeon 7500
[11:28] <mvo> (not sure that this matters)
[11:28] <Kamion> ok, could you file a bug on syslinux and I'll try to investigate?
[11:28] <mvo> should I wait for the next image first just to be sure? 
[11:29] <Kamion> nah, don't think that'll help
[11:29] <mvo> ok, thanks
[11:29] <Kamion> although you'll need the next image anyway to make it work at all, of course
[11:30] <mvo> sure, just announce it in the channel (when it's ready), I'll pick it up then
[11:30] <mvo> the gfx stuff is really awsome already
[11:31] <Kamion> fixes to that level of it tend to require me to dust off my memory of x86 assembly
[11:40] <mvo> yeah, looking at the code the gfx_done call should really be fine
[11:42] <mvo> anyway, bug submited
[11:42] <pitti> Hi Yagisan 
[11:42] <Yagisan> G'day pitti
[11:44] <Yagisan> anything interesting happening pitti ?
[11:47] <pitti> flight 2 is not that far away any more
[11:48] <Yagisan> nice. I saw that a modified version of my multi-arch patch for ltsp made it's way in via ogra :)
[11:51] <janimo> package licensing question:
[11:51] <janimo> as part of xubuntu-settings I am packaging ivman config files
[11:51] <janimo> and gdm themes
[11:51] <janimo> is it ok to GPL it?
[11:51] <janimo> the gdm package with the other themes is under GPL
[11:51] <janimo> ivman says code is QPL but says nothing of config files (bunch of XMLs)
[11:52] <janimo> do licenses usually apply to configs too?
[11:52] <janimo> thanks
[11:52] <Kamion> if it's not yours then you need to ask the copyright holder before arbitrarily relicensing
[11:52] <janimo> you mean the config files right?
[11:52] <Kamion> yes
[11:52] <janimo> as the gdm themes are GPL I suppose
[11:53] <janimo> ok I'll ask
[11:53] <Kamion> I'd generally assume that config files were under the same licence as the code, presuming that they're copyrightable at all, but that's not a legal opinion
[11:53] <janimo> or I can just say in debian/license bith QPL and GPL?
[11:53] <janimo> that would be easier, I do not want to relicense
[11:53] <Kamion> if one isn't a derivative work of the other, then you can do that
[11:53] <Kamion> i.e. if you're just aggregating two unrelated things in the one package, that's fine, just say so clearly
[11:54] <janimo> ok so mentioning specifically which files are under whic hlicense
[11:54] <janimo> thanks
[11:54] <Kamion> but if the GPLed work depends on the QPLed work or vice versa then you have a problem
[11:55] <Kamion> that's a loose opinion off the top of my head; checking with the copyright holders (or more legally-experienced people) is always safest if in doubt
[11:55] <janimo> not the case here, just pick various configs and aggregate them under same package
[11:55] <janimo> there are already too many xubuntu-* package
[11:56] <janimo> and I'd rather not patch gdm/ivman packages
[11:59] <DiabloD3> Hey all.
[12:00] <DiabloD3> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20622
[12:03] <Riddell> ops needed in #ubuntu
[12:07] <Kamion> meh, the linux-image-k7 component shouldn't exist
[12:08] <pitti> bah, seems that we need more ops in #ubuntu
[12:09] <Diziet> IRC op> Often a thankless job unless you're a small-minded control freak.
[12:10] <azeem> or care for the community.
[12:12] <Diziet> I'm afraid my devotion only stretches so far :-/.
[12:21] <DiabloD3> kamion in what way?
[12:22] <Kamion> DiabloD3: all kernel bugs belong on the 'linux' component
[12:23] <Kamion> linux-image-k7 was the only linux-image-* component in existence, and was evidently created by accident
[12:23] <DiabloD3> what about 686?
[12:23] <Kamion> 'linux'
[12:24] <DiabloD3> there is -386, -686, and -k7. There used to be -smp ones too.
[12:24] <Kamion> no, there isn't
[12:24] <DiabloD3> linux-image-386 - Linux kernel image on 386.
[12:24] <DiabloD3> linux-image-686 - Linux kernel image on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/PIV.
[12:24] <Kamion> I'm talking about in Bugzilla here, not packages in the archive
[12:24] <DiabloD3> linux-image-686-smp - Linux kernel image on PPro/Celeron/PII/PIII/PIV SMP.
[12:24] <DiabloD3> linux-image-k7 - Linux kernel image on AMD K7.
[12:24] <DiabloD3> linux-image-k7-smp - Linux kernel image on AMD K7 SMP.
[12:24] <DiabloD3> oh.
[12:24] <DiabloD3> then I agree, why does it have its own component?
[12:25] <Kamion> it doesn't any more, that's what I said above
[12:25] <DiabloD3> Ahh.
[12:45] <ogra> yippie :-D
[12:45] <Kamion> won't work, mind
[12:46] <Kamion> Adam's rebuilding the live filesystems to fix a bug, then I'll rebuild those
[12:46] <Kamion> but you might as well download them so that later rsyncs are faster
[12:46] <ogra> doesnt matter, i *have* one :) 
[12:47] <ogra> finally there is something to point all the asking people to ... even if i have to tell them its broken :)
[12:47] <Kamion> how're Edubuntu install CDs looking?
[12:48] <Kamion> I'll be rebuilding */amd64 to pick up a gfxboot-theme-ubuntu fix, but the rest will stay as-is unless people report problems with them
[12:48] <ogra> havent tested yet ... still writing them to disk, but first i hve to run our meeting
[12:49] <ogra> i'll report back during te day ... 
[12:49] <ogra> something is wrong with initramfs wrt nfsmounting ... so this wont be a good one anyway before i found that bug
[12:50] <ogra> at least for the ltsp side ....
[12:51] <ogra> the rest looked pretty good yesterday already, stage 1 finished fine and if the postgres/locale prob is gone now i think they are fine apart from the above ...
[12:51] <Kamion> locale fix should be in
[12:52] <ogra> yup, you told so ...
[12:53] <ogra> the sad thing is that nearly noneof peres ltsp fixes work, seems mdz only eyeballed them but didnt test ... 
[12:54] <ogra> our xorg doesnt accept as many debconf preseeding options as debians does ....
[01:09] <doko> infinity: are you going to sync ppp?
[01:11] <lifeless> win 10
[01:12] <jbailey> dholbach: Give me a couple of hours and I'll let you know.
[01:13] <infinity> doko :?
[01:13] <infinity> doko : It's not in my bug list.
[01:14] <infinity> doko : And I have no urge to do it either.  So, go nuts.
[01:14] <doko> infinity: no, but you did the last sync
[01:19] <Kamion> mvo: whoa, ok, I see the localboot thing now too
[01:19] <infinity> Kamion : edubuntu/powerpc is clooping.
[01:19] <Kamion> sheesh, I'm just jinxed here
[01:19] <infinity> And if you don't like that verb, too bad.
[01:20] <infinity> "undergoing cloopification" could work too, I guess.
[01:20] <Kamion> I'm going to put "broken rescue mode on some images" in the errata; running around fixing it everywhere is going to eat into my vacation time
[01:21] <infinity> Who needs rescue mode anyway?
[01:24] <Kamion> hm, of course now it's broken in the live CD because we don't have d-i there any more
[01:25] <Kamion> Whoops. I'll just de-support it there probably.
[01:25] <infinity> How spiffy does rescue mode need to be?
[01:25] <infinity> Cause I can do a pretty good rescue mode in initramfs.
[01:25] <Kamion> compare with current rescue mode from an install CD
[01:25] <Kamion> I'm not sure just dropping to a shell counts ...
[01:26] <infinity> Filesystem tools, MD tools, a crappy text editor..?
[01:26] <infinity> (To be honest, I'm not sure what else d-i's rescue offers, since my use cases for it have been limited)
[01:26] <Kamion> it offers you a menu of root filesystems to mount, mounts it for you, and then gives you a menu of things you can do (nowadays including recipes for things like reinstalling the bootloader, at least on powerpc)
[01:27] <infinity> Oh, right.  The New and improved rescue mode with the menu.
[01:27] <infinity> That annoyed me, cause it took forever to get to any rescuing. :)
[01:27] <Kamion> before rescue mode people could drop to alt-f2 and do all the things you could do in an initramfs
[01:27] <Kamion> the whole point of rescue mode was to stop me having to give them the six-command sequence all the time
[01:27] <Kamion> (or whatever it was)
[01:28] <infinity> This could probably still be shoehorned in for the livefs initramfs somewhow.
[01:28] <infinity> Smahe to have to rewrite the d-i menuing bit, but no big deal.
[01:29] <Kamion> yeah
[01:30] <Kamion> or it's still technically possible to include the d-i initrd
[01:30] <Kamion> I'd just have to rename it
[01:30] <Kamion> takes more space, but would do in the meantime
[01:30] <infinity> For now, though, I see no real harm in releasing Flight-2 without Live-rescue.
[01:31] <Nafallo> infinity: could you check what's up with linuxdcpp please? same error as last time.
[01:32] <infinity> Nafallo : Was that the scons failure?
[01:32] <Nafallo> infinity: yes
[01:32] <infinity> Nafallo : If so, that's probably the "same me not fixing it yet" as last time.
[01:33] <Nafallo> infinity: well, new version since this morning so that's why I nag again :-)
[01:39] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu install CD works fine but live CD give a kernel panic with "can't open /scripts/casper"
[01:40] <mvo> Riddell: it's a known issue
[01:42] <Kamion> Riddell: actually just rebuilding Kubuntu live now
[01:45] <DiabloD3> I'm happy kubuntu actually installs now
[01:45] <DiabloD3> riddell finally finished his giant several-month long task
[01:45] <Kamion> Riddell: grab 20051214.1, should be better
[01:46] <Kamion> DiabloD3: Kubuntu breezy installed fine ...
[01:46] <Nafallo> Kamion: time to test livecds? :-)
[01:46] <Kamion> as did Kubuntu hoary, for that matter
[01:46] <Kamion> Nafallo: yes please
[01:47] <DiabloD3> Kamion: I meant on dapper.
[01:47] <Riddell> Kamion: will do, thanks
[01:56] <Nafallo> hmm. no seeders on the live amd64 torrent?
[02:00] <infinity> Are you surprised?
[02:01] <Nafallo> yes
[02:01] <Nafallo> I thought the datacenter would initiate the seeds :-)
[02:02] <Znarl> Nafallo : All the live CDs including AMD64 are well seeded presently.  Check for yourself http://torrent.ubuntu.com:6969/
[02:03] <Nafallo> Znarl: which one is current? :-)
[02:04] <Nafallo> hmm, seems I can't connect in that case :-/
[02:04] <Kamion> I wish the tracker could tell you the canonical URL
[02:05] <infinity> Nafallo : Argh, your build failure is pkg-config's fault.
[02:05] <Nafallo> infinity: oh?
[02:05] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu live ready for testing
[02:05] <\sh> Nafallo: btlaunchmanycurses . --max_upload_rate 20 thats what you need...and screen :)
[02:06] <dholbach> jbailey: ok
[02:06] <Nafallo> \sh: baah. I want our default things to work rather ;-)
[02:06] <Nafallo> \sh: I have torrentflux on the server if I really have to go there :-P
[02:07] <Nafallo> infact... I should go there aswell :-)
[02:07] <\sh> Nafallo: torrentflux? isn't it php?
[02:07] <Nafallo> \sh: yes
[02:08] <Nafallo> \sh: you COULD rewrite it in python for me? ;-)
[02:10] <\sh> Nafallo: why? bittorrent is in python :)
[02:10] <rob^^^> hrmm...any thoughts on reorganizing the flight splash from "Install to the hard disk, Install to the hard disk (expert mode), OEM installation, Server installation, Server installation (expert mode), Rescue a broken system" to "Install to the hard disk, Rescue a broken system, Advanced Installation Options"
[02:11] <Nafallo> \sh: launchpad to :-)
[02:11] <rob^^^> but I assume thats slated for change yet again once Ubuntu Express finds its way in
[02:12] <jbailey> dholbach: Hmm
[02:12] <jbailey> ?
[02:12] <dholbach> jbailey: you said i should give you some hours :)
[02:12] <dholbach> which is fine by me :)
[02:12] <jbailey> dholbach: Right, okay. =)
[02:12] <jbailey> ALthough it hasn't died yet, which is encouraging. =)
[02:13] <Kamion> rob^^^: hmm, I'm not sure about having too many "advanced options", "more advanced options", "guru options" kind of things in the boot screen
[02:13] <Kamion> there's not much room to explain complicated interface features or for people to get used to them
[02:13] <Kamion> I'd be happy to reorder the menu items if that would help
[02:13] <rob^^^> Kamion: I ment mainly to just take the additional options and split them off into a submenu
[02:13] <Kamion> UE has little to do with this
[02:14] <Kamion> rob^^^: I know, but as I said ...
[02:14] <Kamion> I think there's a real danger of submenu overload there - would like to keep the structure as simple as possible
[02:14] <rob^^^> yeah
[02:14] <rob^^^> I figured one would do it though
[02:14] <rob^^^> just main and advanced
[02:14] <Nafallo> Znarl: baah. can't connect to a seed, so I wget and seed instead ;-)
[02:14] <Kamion> it may be possible to put a separator in there
[02:15] <rob^^^> although I guess there are i18n issues?
[02:15] <rob^^^> because 99% of users are interested in Desktop or Rescue
[02:15] <Kamion> no i18n on any of this yet although there's provision for it
[02:16] <rob^^^> and it slightly bothers me having a non-expert server mode just in principle ;)
[02:16] <Kamion> it doesn't bother me because I know what expert mode means :)
[02:16] <Kamion> and what server mode means, and how the two are wildly different
[02:16] <Kamion> the most awkward issue with menu restructuring is that I don't want any of this to be encoded into the gfxboot theme
[02:17] <Kamion> so I'm using the syntax defined by the syslinux "simple menu system"
[02:17] <Kamion> so that it can all live in isolinux.cfg
[02:17] <viviersf> ok guys
[02:17] <Kamion> I'm happy to support things that can be defined within that syntax, within reason, but am a bit more cautious about going beyond that
[02:18] <viviersf> ubuntu + scsi + harware raid ? does it work
[02:18] <rob^^^> Right now there are 6 options on the screen, adding an advanced mode would split it into 3/4
[02:18] <Kamion> rob^^^: my alternate suggestion with regard to expert mode is that I'd much rather have that be a toggle switch
[02:18] <Riddell> Kamion: new kubuntu live fails with "no record for /block/ram0 in database" repeated lots then "unable to find CD-ROM containing /casper/filesystem.cloop"
[02:18] <Kamion> accessible by a function key; that would be way preferable to a submenu
[02:18] <Kamion> Mithrandir: help Riddell? :)
[02:19] <Mithrandir> hmm
[02:19] <Kamion> Riddell: what arch?
[02:19] <Riddell> Kamion: i386
[02:19] <Kamion> /casper/filesystem.cloop is on that CD
[02:20] <rob^^^> {"Install to the hard disk", "Rescue a broken system", "Advanced"}, { "Server installation", "Install to the hard disk (expert mode)", "Server Installation (expert mode)", "OEM installation", "Back"}
[02:20] <Mithrandir> Riddell: you get dropped to a shell, don't you?  if not, please add break=premount to the syslinux command line and tell me when you have a shell
[02:20] <rob^^^> the second menu is kinda ugly but anyoen trying to do any of those things will have seen worse
[02:20] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I do get dropped to a shell
[02:21] <Kamion> would rather {"Install to the hard disk", "Server installation", "OEM installation", "Rescue a broken system"}, and F5 => Normal/Expert mode
[02:21] <Mithrandir> Riddell: what does ls /sys/block give you?
[02:21] <Kamion> four choices is hardly overload, especially when the first is obviously-named and the default
[02:21] <rob^^^> That's definately better
[02:21] <rob^^^> most people don't know what OEM means though
[02:22] <Riddell> Mithrandir: hang on, I need to reboot back into the live CD
[02:23] <rob^^^> if that is a problem or not, dunno
[02:24] <Kamion> rob^^^: I honestly don't think server should be an advanced option, and while OEM arguably is, a submenu with one item on it seems a bit daft :)
[02:25] <rob^^^> Kamion: I think hiding OEM unless advanced is on is a good option
[02:25] <rob^^^> why are you doing OEM installs if you can't find the README ;)
[02:25] <Kamion> but you skipped my point
[02:25] <rob^^^> oh
[02:25] <Kamion> a submenu with one item on it seems a bit daft
[02:26] <rob^^^> yes that does, but it would have the additional affect of changing Desktop to Desktop expert
[02:26] <rob^^^> etc
[02:26] <Kamion> huh?
[02:26] <rob^^^> Go back to your F5 normal/expert idea
[02:27] <rob^^^> in addition to toggeling expert mode it could add advanced options (or advanced option) to the current menu but because there are existing items just adding one doesn't look dumb
[02:28] <Kamion> hmm, I suppose that's possible but it feels counterintuitive to me, and you don't actually want to do OEM/expert
[02:28] <Kamion> (trust me on this)
[02:28] <Kamion> expert mode in the installer is not a good analogue for other installation modes
[02:28] <Kamion> so the two should not be conflated
[02:29] <Kamion> expert => append DEBCONF_PRIORITY=low to kernel parameters
[02:29] <rob^^^> yeah, I'm just saying having F5 add those two to desktop & server and show the other option, don't actually run it in expert mode
[02:29] <jsgotangco> alright so the AsianTour is now set
[02:30] <Kamion> rob^^^: I've wanted to have expert mode be a toggle switch for ages, so honestly I'd rather have that
[02:30] <rob^^^> well your the man ;)
[02:31] <Kamion> I take your points, but I honestly think this'll be preferable
[02:31] <rob^^^> understood, I'm not questioning you
[02:31] <Kamion> we're going to run out of space along the bottom if we add *too* many function keys ... we still need to add keymap support
[02:32] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: any idea when we can get to play with the new live cd stuff?
[02:32] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: now.
[02:32] <Riddell> Mithrandir: I just burned it to a new CD and the problem has gone away, thanks for your help anyway :)
[02:33] <Mithrandir> Riddell: ok, thanks.
[02:33] <Kamion> sabdfl: it's landed for Flight 2, despite being incomplete, because getting the old stuff to work again in the new kernel/initramfs world order was more difficult than just going for it
[02:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: if I do keymap magick in casper now, any chance of it making flight 2?
[02:34] <jsgotangco> hiya sabdfl 
[02:34] <maswan> Kamion: you going to ping me for mirror sying in the next couple of hours, or should I try make some sync method not requiring me to be awake?
[02:34] <maswan> s/sying/syncing/
[02:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: not really, I need to get it out in like an hour or two or it's going to eat into vacation time
[02:34] <Kamion> maswan: yeah, next couple of hours
[02:34] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, that's fine.
[02:35] <Kamion> whoa, my desktop on this live CD is insane
[02:35] <Mithrandir> how so?
[02:36] <Kamion> duplicate bottom and top panels about 20% from the bottom of the screen
[02:36] <Mithrandir> ew
[02:36] <Kamion> window droppings all over the place
[02:36] <Mithrandir> on your powerbook or another laptop?
[02:36] <Kamion> powerbook
[02:36] <Kamion> I'll reboot and try again
[02:36] <Kamion> I wonder if unionfs instability is causing problems
[02:39] <Kamion> lack of network plugging really bites on live CDs
[02:42] <Mithrandir> add n-m to the live seed? :-P
[02:43] <jdub> fabbione: http://www.tecchannel.de/news/themen/server/433610/index.html
[02:43] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think devmapper as an alternative would be a very good thing to have soon
[02:44] <fabbione> jdub: ehehhe
[02:44] <Kamion> it seems likely to me that a lot of this flakiness is down to unionfs
[02:44] <jdub> heh:
[02:44] <jdub> "In October 2005  even IBM ennobled  the Ubuntu server, by certifying the data base software DB2 for it."
[02:44] <jdub> IBM ENNOBLED UBUNTU
[02:44] <fabbione> yeah right!
[02:44] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I'm already working on it.
[02:44] <fabbione> sooner or later we will be RedHat certified :P
[02:45] <Kamion> yeah, I'm just wondering whether I want to release Flight 2 this way :-/
[02:45] <Kamion> oh, hell, should release it so that we can find out about the unionfs bugs, I guess
[02:53] <mvo> sabdfl: you asked to ping you when the update-notificaton changes are ready. do you like this design: http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/update-notifier/lala.png
[02:53] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: ok, so Flight 2 live-cd should look quite different? is there a daily build you could point me at for x86?
[02:54] <jdub> mvo: perhaps put the close button to the right of the title
[02:55] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/daily-live/current/dapper-live-i386.iso is using simplifiedlive atm
[02:55] <sabdfl> seb128: should gnome be using firefox again now? url-clicking still busted on my laptop
[02:55] <ogra> sabdfl, thats a firefox bug, not a gnome ne 
[02:55] <ogra> *one
[02:55] <mvo> jdub: thanks, I'll re-arrange it a bit
[02:56] <ogra> the alternatives setup seems to be broken
[02:56] <jdub> $ sudo update-alternatives --list editor
[02:56] <jdub> /bin/ed
[02:56] <jdub> /bin/nano
[02:56] <jdub> 
[02:57] <jdub> ^ meanwhile ;-)
[02:58] <jsgotangco> heavy metal
[02:58] <ogra> jdub, do you mean to choose ed or nano instead if firefox ? 
[02:58] <ogra> s/if/of/
[02:58] <sabdfl> mvo: the box looks very stark
[02:58] <ogra> :P
[02:58] <sabdfl> would prefer a cleaner [x] 
[02:58] <sabdfl> will mail a sample picture
[02:59] <sabdfl> ogra: seb128 said it was the gnome default app setting that needed to be changed from mozilla-firefox to firefox
[02:59] <Riddell> mvo: what's changed there with update notification?
[02:59] <ogra> sabdfl, ls -l /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser
[03:00] <ogra> it points to a non existing mozilla-firefox binary
[03:00] <zakame> ooh
[03:00] <ogra> afaik gnome uses x-www-browser if you dont configure anything
[03:01] <mvo> Riddell: only the layout and that there is a small [x]  now
[03:01] <ogra> but seb128 might know better indeed ...
[03:01] <mvo> sabdfl: ok, thanks. the [x]  itself is a stock gtk close
[03:02] <seb128> sabdfl: if you changed it once with the preferred app capplet it's an user setting and not changed nop
[03:02] <sabdfl> seb128: how can I revert that to default?
[03:02] <mvo> jdub: do you like http://people.ubuntu.com/~mvo/update-notifier/lala2.png better? (icon closer to text now)
[03:02] <lifeless> sabdfl: ping
[03:02] <seb128> sabdfl: system, preference, preferred app and pick firefox
[03:02] <sabdfl> lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 24 2005-11-03 19:32 /etc/alternatives/x-www-browser -> /usr/bin/mozilla-firefox
[03:03] <seb128> sabdfl: there is also the alternative issue but that's a firefox issue, ping Diziet about this one
[03:04] <Diziet> sabdfl: Yes, that's broken.
[03:04] <Diziet> Let me just check it's on my `to fix in next upload' list.
[03:07] <Diziet> It doesn't seem to be in bugzilla at all.  I'm sure I asked the last person to grumble about it to file a bug.  Oh well, I'll do it now.
[03:08] <ogra> Diziet, oh, sorry, that might have been me
[03:08] <ogra> (or even mdz ...)
[03:09] <doko> Diziet: which kind of info do you need on #13308?
[03:09] <Diziet> x-www-browser> 20992.
[03:11] <Diziet> doko: The difficulty there is that I can't reproduce it here conveniently because I have no amd64.
[03:11] <Diziet> So if it still does it with the 1.5beta then I think the only answer will be to valgrind it.  Or perhaps to trawl through upstream's bug reports, but it's a very random-sounding behaviour and will be hard to search for.
[03:13] <doko> it hits me very regulary, will upgrade the desktop after christmas and check again
[03:15] <Diziet> Thanks.  Sorry not be able to be more helpful.
[03:16] <ogra> doko, never seen that here on my amd64 
[03:20] <mvo> hm, it looks like if we add a close button we either a small/long box in vertial direction or a "stark" box in horizontal direction (depending on where the close button is placed)
[03:21] <doko> ogra: it usually happens after running firefox for about two days. your batteries don't last that long ...
[03:21] <ogra> doko, :P
[03:21] <mpt> mvo, why not make the whole box clickable? that would be much faster to use
[03:22] <ogra> i dont run on batteries at home ... even if i live in the middle of nowhere we already have warm water and power here
[03:24] <ogra> hmm, rsyncing a install iso to a live one is not a real speedup :/
[03:24] <pitti> ogra: I rsynced the current dapper live against breezy live, just a speedup of 1.19
[03:25] <ogra> yeah ...
[03:25] <SloMoSnail> shawarma: ping?
[03:25] <ogra> i guess i'll need to take the pain one time 
[03:27] <mvo> mpt: the whole box is clickable, but apparently not everyone know it. that's why we add a button as well
[03:27] <pitti> slomo: ffmpeg/hoary is in the archive now
[03:27] <mpt> mvo, the solution to that is to make the box look clickable, not to make it look as if it's not clickable :-)
[03:28] <slomo> pitti: thanks... i hope to get everything done until sunday :)
[03:28] <mpt> mvo, e.g. by adding a bevel around the edge
[03:31] <jdong_> ok, there
[03:37] <mvo> mpt: something like http://www.martianrock.com/?p=146
[03:39] <mpt> mvo, yes, that's a good start
[03:40] <mpt> perhaps even a slight gradient for the entire bubble
[03:40] <mpt> if you wanted it to look really polished
[03:42] <jdong_> changelogs are broken on packages.u.c
[03:43] <jdong_> I e-mailed the webmaster about it a few weeks ago with no response
[03:43] <jdong_> s/packages\.ubuntu/changelogs\.ubuntu/ works pretty well to fix it though :)
[03:43] <mvo> jdong_: have you tried changelogs.ubuntu.com
[03:43] <mvo> ?
[03:45] <rob^^^> I wonder if more users would install updates if they were prompted on shutdown to "Install updates and shutdown"
[03:45] <jdong_> mvo: yes, but it'd be a LOT more convenient if p.u.c's changelog links don't 404
[03:49] <Amaranth> a good way to make something look clickable is to make it prelight
[03:50] <mpt> Amaranth, sure, if you're in the habit of scrubbing your mouse over the entire screen every few seconds :-P
[03:50] <Amaranth> mpt: i mean once they get there
[03:51] <Amaranth> mpt: making it beveled helps, making it prelight makes them sure
[03:51] <mpt> but part of the point of the notification bubbles is that they get in your way as little as possible, which means they're very unlikely to be under the cursor to start with, so pre-lighting them wouldn't make them look clickable until it was far too late (i.e. you'd already decided where to click)
[03:52] <maswan> mpt: prelighting it might give a hint that will be remembered next time? that is, you only aim for the button the first [couple of]  time[s] .
[03:53] <mpt> perhaps, but I'd prefer something which was *also* obvious the first time :-)
[03:55] <slomo> lamont, infinity: please let mod-mono compile on ppc/ia64... thanks :) at least ppc works, i've verified that
[04:21] <kairo> Ive on latitude d510 and touchpad dont work for 'click and select'. Looking on the package documentation /usr/share/doc/xorg-driver-synaptics/readme.debian have a refer about kernel module config_mouse_ps2_synaptics. On Ubuntu Kernels this module is not pre-compiled. Possible error?
[04:23] <Kamion> that's not a kernel module name, it's a kernel configuration option name - you won't find a module by that name
[04:25] <Nafallo> infinity: no luck with linuxdcpp is looks like. it builds fine in pbuilder :-/.
[04:26] <Kamion> kairo: I believe that that document is a bit out of date, and that CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2_SYNAPTICS is just part of CONFIG_MOUSE_PS2 these days (which is modular in our kernels, as the psmouse module)
[04:27] <Kamion> I've never used one of these devices though so can't help further
[04:27] <Kamion> Riddell: any more Kubuntu testing results? are you OK to release?
[04:28] <Amaranth> btw, is it a duck or a dragon?
[04:28] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth, halfbreed.
[04:29] <Kamion> ogra: how's Edubuntu testing going?
[04:29] <Amaranth> i don't think that's physically possible ;)
[04:29] <Riddell> Kamion: i386 all good, amd64 just finished downloading I'm burning now.  no volunteers for powerpc yet
[04:29] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth, body of a duck, with style, and the punch and the heart of a dragon. ;)
[04:29] <ogra> Kamion, going on ... i'll report if i'm done ...
[04:30] <Amaranth> HiddenWolf: I meant the breed part :)
[04:30] <ogra> Kamion, my rsync and cdwriter machine is the same as the test machine .. i'm just reorganizing a bit here
[04:30] <Diziet> ?Diziet
[04:30] <Diziet> Oops :-).
[04:30] <Kamion> Mithrandir: the unionfs flakiness seems confined to powerpc
[04:30] <Kamion> I'm guessing it's endianness trouble
[04:31] <ogra> Kamion, at least as long as dapper doesnt support CD writing its a bit of fiddling here ...
[04:31] <Kamion> I thought you said growisofs worked
[04:32] <Amaranth> ogra: Ever figure anything out for menus based on groups?
[04:32] <ogra> Amaranth, nope, thats for dapper+1 :)
[04:32] <Amaranth> ogra: It's not possible with the spec but a script that runs on startup could do something.
[04:32] <ogra> Kamion, on breezy
[04:32] <Kamion> ah
[04:32] <Amaranth> s/startup/login/
[04:33] <ogra> Amaranth, i think i'll move to preconfigured sabayon profiles at dapper 
[04:33] <ogra> i dont want any scripts ...
[04:33] <sabdfl> mvo: that's pretty nice and would look good on our default desktop too
[04:33] <ogra> err dapper+1
[04:33] <Amaranth> that would be nice
[04:33] <sabdfl> (the martianrock example)
[04:33] <Amaranth> you could just launch sabayon and use alacarte to edit menus there :)
[04:33] <ogra> Amaranth, yep
[04:34] <ogra> my prob is that sabayon doesnt work over ssh connections, so using it in our ltsp environment isnt possible... i have no idea how to fix that
[04:39] <mvo> sabdfl: ok. this one is the current development stuff from the gnome guys, I'll ask how stable it is and test it here a bit (it's a api change, but it looks like it's not hard to make the switch)
[04:41] <mvo> Kamion: current live works pretty well here, the startup is a big ugly (but you proably know this already :)
[04:41] <Kamion> mvo: thanks, yeah, it's in the errata
[04:41] <kairo> Kamion: in contact with another user (with another laptop) recive the identic error. I dont need recompile kernel for a test?
[04:42] <Kamion> kairo: like I say, I don't know enough to help further, sorry; if I were you I'd file a bug
[04:47] <shawarma> slomo: pong?
[04:47] <slomo> shawarma: are you upstream for libmms? or did you only package it for ubuntu? i ask because your mail address is in configure.ac if i'm not mistaken ;)
[04:47] <Nafallo_live> how can I get swedish keyboard on this livecd?
[04:47] <shawarma> slomo: Both.
[04:49] <shawarma> slomo: Why?
[04:49] <Kamion> Nafallo_live: right now you'll need to use System -> Preferences -> Keyboard -> Layout in GNOME
[04:49] <slomo> shawarma: ok... then you need to learn about sonames ;)
[04:49] <shawarma> slomo: Probably so.
[04:49] <slomo> shawarma: the API changed with the new release but the soname didn't ;)
[04:50] <shawarma> slomo: Er... Ok. Then it's not me after all. I USED to be upstream, apparantly. I didn't know anyone still worked on it.
[04:50] <shawarma> slomo: :-)
[04:50] <shawarma> slomo: I never got any bug reports, so I never changed anything.
[04:50] <Nafallo_live> Kamion, some weird thing, but atleast it boots </(
[04:50] <slomo> shawarma: christian schaller (iirc) released 0.2 some days ago
[04:51] <Nafallo_live> ehm, and that was an attempt of a smiliey >/P
[04:51] <Kamion> Nafallo_live: yes, startup's pretty odd at the moment, will be in the release notes
[04:51] <Nafallo_live> Kamion, and checkpoints you want me to do?
[04:51] <shawarma> slomo: Oh, ok. I had no idea.
[04:51] <shawarma> slomo: I just worked on the 0.1 release. Since then I haven't touched it. :-/
[04:52] <slomo> shawarma: hmm, can you talk to him about this?
[04:52] <Kamion> Nafallo_live: the high-priority stuff on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/TestPlans is good
[04:54] <Nafallo_live> Kamion, oki. I'll have to go shopping *girlfriend is pulling my hair atm), but I
[04:54] <Nafallo_live> 'll do the bits when I get back
[04:55] <shawarma> slomo: I'm REALLY busy until this monday. If you can wait that long, then sure.
[04:55] <slomo> shawarma: sure... thanks :)
[04:56] <Kamion> Nafallo_live: ta
[04:58] <jsgotangco> good night all
[05:05] <Riddell> Kamion: kubuntu amd64 CDs are both good
[05:06] <Kamion> and all Ubuntu CDs look good with the exception of various errata I've noticed
[05:06] <Kamion> er, noted
[05:07] <jbailey> Kamion: We're free to break the archive again now? =)
[05:08] <Kamion> well, Edubuntu isn't done yet
[05:08] <jbailey> 'kay.
[05:08] <sabdfl> Kamion: i just pulled dapper-live daily, should i pull it again?
[05:08] <zakame> good night all :D
[05:09] <Kamion> sabdfl: last live build finished at 11:54 this morning, so if you pulled after that you should be good
[05:09] <sabdfl> Kamion: perfect, thanks
[05:14] <doko> seb128: what about replacing the gcc based cpp on the CD with the smaller/faster one?
[05:15] <seb128> doko: GNOME uses mcpp atm
[05:15] <seb128> at least gnome-settings-daemon
[05:18] <maswan> Kamion: time soon? I'm jsut about to head to bed
[05:24] <Kamion> maswan: hm, will be about half an hour I think
[05:24] <maswan> Kamion: Ok
[05:25] <Kamion> Riddell: ok, I'll publish Kubuntu along with Ubuntu then
[05:25] <ogra__> Kamion: th elocale prob is still there
[05:26] <ogra__> (tried a german install though, will test a default en_US one as well)
[05:26] <Kamion> ogra__: didn't happen for me in a French install
[05:26] <Kamion> ogra__: can you clarify exactly what problem you're seeing?
[05:26] <Riddell> Kamion: great
[05:26] <ogra__> perl warnings
[05:27] <ogra__> wait, i'll get the laptop here
[05:27] <Kamion> please look for localechooser in /var/log/installer/status and tell me the associated version
[05:27] <ogra__> LC_ALL is unset
[05:28] <ogra__> language and lang are set to the right one
[05:28] <Kamion> just the information above will be fine
[05:28] <doko> seb128: then liborbit0 and libidl0 should use that as well, that will save us 1.5MB on the CD
[05:28] <ogra__> ok
[05:28] <lucasvo> there are wrong dependencies in kanagramm, renaming of the  kdelibs4c2 is the problem
[05:29] <seb128> doko: k, will try to work on that
[05:29] <ogra__> Kamion: 0.22ubuntu4
[05:29] <Kamion> ogra__: ok, can you put /var/log/installer/syslog somewhere for me to look at?
[05:30] <Kamion> (that version should be good)
[05:30] <ogra__> yup, as soon as its finished ... broken on postgresql ...
[05:30] <Kamion> /var/log/installer/syslog will already be complete
[05:30] <pitti> ogra__: still?
[05:30] <ogra__> pitti: sure
[05:30] <Kamion> the log file it's using now will be /var/log/base-config*
[05:30] <ogra__> pitti: if the locale is still wrong
[05:30] <pitti> ogra__: ah, ok
[05:30] <Kamion> I only need the former
[05:31] <ogra__> pitti: but i still think thats a bug to rely on locales with a cert 
[05:31] <pitti> ogra__: cert?
[05:31] <ogra__> pitti: you told me its generating a certificate based on the locale
[05:31] <Riddell> lucasvo: Kamagram Depends: kdelibs4c2a 
[05:31] <pitti> ogra__: oh, no, a cluster
[05:32] <pitti> the SSL certificate is locale independent, of course
[05:32] <lucasvo> Riddell: hm, really? since when? my apt sources are only 2h old
[05:32] <ogra__> pitti: but still, relying on locales anywhere here is wrong imho ... i know admins that run their servers with LANG=C
[05:33] <pitti> ogra__: that is fine
[05:33] <ogra__> or dont even set it
[05:33] <Riddell> lucasvo: for some time, is this dapper?
[05:33] <lucasvo> Riddell: yes, 2h old :D
[05:33] <pitti> ogra__: I don't rely on any arbitrary locale being present, just the one that is currently set
[05:33] <Kamion> lucasvo: do you have anything else in /etc/apt/sources.list other than dapper?
[05:33] <pitti> ogra__: i. e. if you tell the system that you want de_DE.UTF-8, but that locale doesn't exist
[05:34] <ogra__> yup
[05:34] <pitti> ogra__: then it is impossible to generate a cluster with de_DE.UTF-8
[05:34] <ogra__> true
[05:34] <pitti> ogra__: so if your server does not use any locales, postgresql will happily generate a C cluster
[05:35] <ogra__> Kamion: 
[05:35] <ogra__> i bet i know the prob
[05:35] <ogra__> Kamion: just tried to scp, the langpacks are not on the CD and my eth1 isnt up ...
[05:36] <ogra__> good old udev
[05:36] <Kamion> ah, right
[05:36] <lucasvo> Kamion: no
[05:36] <lucasvo> ok, apt-get update solved this problem but:
[05:36] <lucasvo>   kiosktool: Depends: kdelibs4c2 (>= 4:3.4.3) but it is not installable
[05:36] <lucasvo>   synce-kde: Depends: kdelibs4c2 (>= 4:3.4.3) but it is not installable
[05:37] <ogra__> i'll try a en install, these are on the edubuntu CD
[05:37] <Kamion> yes, that makes sense, langpack-locales would allow me to fix this although it would involve installing langpack-locales in default installations or something like that
[05:37] <ogra__> is that big ? 
[05:37] <pitti> Kamion: you mean the 'locales' package with all locales? (langpack-locales is the source package of current locales)
[05:37] <Kamion> not very, but we explicitly didn't want it to be included by default
[05:38] <Kamion> pitti: locales doesn't include the actual locales though, does it?
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: not at the moment, according to the spec
[05:38] <Kamion> in fact I'm pretty sure it doesn't because as it stands we already install locales
[05:38] <Diziet> Um, the `new updates available' balloon has just popped up over the top of my (black screen) screensaver.
[05:38] <pitti> Kamion: however, we can always change it back
[05:38] <Diziet> Is this a known bug ?
[05:38] <ogra__> o ok ... probably i can pull it in for edubuntu then, my set of langs will always be smaller than ubuntu ones
[05:38] <Riddell> lucasvo: yeah, there's still packages needing a rebuild, poke us in #kubuntu-devel if you have dany paticular requests
[05:39] <Kamion> ogra__: no, leave it for now and we'll solve it properly
[05:39] <Diziet> And now it has gone away again.  How odd.
[05:39] <ogra__> oki
[05:39] <Kamion> I don't want to hack around hiding it for some languages in some derivatives, or we'll never bother to fix it right for Tagalog on Kubuntu or whatever
[05:39] <lucasvo> Riddell: ok
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: don't really want to make a snap decision on it just now, but the current situation is beginning to look pretty unpleasant to support
[05:40] <lucasvo> Riddell: or should I submit a bugreport?
[05:40] <ogra__> Kamion: btw, i saw pcmcia-cs rushing by in stage 1 ... is that intentional ? 
[05:40] <Kamion> ogra__: yes
[05:40] <ogra__> oki
[05:40] <Kamion> in the release notes to :)
[05:40] <Kamion> too
[05:40] <ogra__> thought it was gone
[05:40] <Kamion> we still need pcmcia-cs for some configuration files
[05:40] <Riddell> lucasvo: can do but just asking on IRC will be the same effectiveness
[05:40] <ogra__> ok
[05:40] <pitti> Kamion: what's the root of the problem? that the installer offers locales for langpacks we cannot ship?
[05:40] <Kamion> eventually they'll move to pcmcia-common or similar, but they haven't done so yet
[05:40] <Kamion> pitti: yes
[05:41] <ogra__> bah,and we really should solve the fontcache generation one day
[05:41] <ogra__> every single font takes 30sec
[05:41] <lucasvo> Riddell: ok
[05:41] <Kamion> pitti: it works fine as long as you're on the network and can download the language pack
[05:41] <pitti> Kamion: it seems to cause pain for other usages, too, so maybe we should revert that 
[05:41] <pitti> Kamion: ... or use a langpack that's on the CD, I assume?
[05:41] <Kamion> what about the file overlap thing?
[05:41] <Kamion> indeed
[05:42] <Kamion> can we make locales and the language packs ship locales in different places? IIRC that coming up last time we discussed this
[05:42] <pitti> Kamion: well, we can either ship it in locales in addition and Replace: locales in the langpacks, or just ship it in locales and be done with it
[05:42] <Kamion> to solve this particular problem, we'd have to arrange for them to be generated from that different place
[05:42] <Kamion> ok
[05:42] <pitti> Kamion: two different places wouldn't be too difficult either, but I don't like such redundancy
[05:43] <pitti> I mean, *if* we want to update locales post-release, then we can as well update the locales package itself
[05:43] <ogra__> hey, usplash runs at the same resolution the installer used, thats incredible impressing :)
[05:43] <pitti> now that it has its own source package, it doesn't make much of a difference
[05:43] <pitti> but it would bring back our /etc/locale.gen conffile
[05:43] <pitti> probably deserves some deeper discussion
[05:44] <Kamion> I think I'm too tired to think about it properly ATM, too
[05:44] <pitti> Kamion: I might not be fully aware about the reasons for splitting out the locales, so we should defer that discussion maybe
[05:49] <kairo> Kamion: solved the problem. This is a related bug (solution posted in bug too) but not removied. Thanks.
[05:50] <Kamion> maswan: syncing out to DC mirrors now, will be available for you shortly
[05:51] <maswan> Kamion: whee
[05:55] <dilinger> are you guys still using baz for stuff?
[05:56] <dilinger> or have you switched over to bzr?
[05:56] <Kamion> bit of both in my case
[05:56] <Kamion> gradually switching over, blocked for some things on figuring out how to do configs in bzr
[05:58] <ogra_test> hmm, gdm didnt start either ...
[05:59] <dilinger> Kamion: what about the supermirror/archive stuff?
[06:00] <Kamion> dilinger: that I don't know, TBH I've never used the supermirror much
[06:01] <Kamion> whoa, somebody rearranged the launchpad UI
[06:01] <Kamion> I'm probably giving away roughly how often I use Launchpad here
[06:05] <Kamion> maswan: ready for you to mirror
[06:05] <maswan> dapper/flight-2/dapper-install-amd64.iso
[06:05] <maswan> ...
[06:06] <dholbach> infinity: seems that the make bug killing cdbs was fixed
[06:06] <maswan> it'll probably be a while, and I need sleep.
[06:07] <maswan> http://ftp.acc.umu.se/mirror/cdimage.ubuntu.com/ <- stuff will appear there, and the archive-update-in-progress will disappear
[06:08] <mgalvin> the various media apps have not all been built against gstreamer 0.10 yet, correct?
[06:08] <maswan> feel free to link to it, or dump a few hundred megabits of http-redirects, if needed. 'night
[06:09] <Amaranth> mgalvin: 0.10 is not compatible with 0.8
[06:09] <Amaranth> mgalvin: apps have to be ported, not just rebuilt
[06:09] <Kamion> maswan: thanks, dude
[06:10] <mgalvin> Amaranth: do we know which ones do and don't work yet?
[06:12] <Amaranth> banshee has limited support, rhythmbox has support in cvs (or whatever they use), totem has a port, and i think sound-juicer does as well
[06:13] <jbailey> dholbach: I think gnome-terminal is fixed, thanks!
[06:14] <dholbach> jbailey: cool
[06:15] <slomo> doko: thanks for updating libvorbis and libogg :)
[06:18] <Nafallo_live> dholbach, known bug that yelp doesn
[06:18] <Nafallo_live> 't start?
[06:19] <dholbach> which one?
[06:19] <dholbach> i mean which yelp
[06:19] <Nafallo_live> the one on current livecd
[06:19] <dholbach> erm, do you have the version at hand?is it 2.13.2-0ubuntu2?
[06:20] <dholbach> what does it say in the terminal?
[06:20] <Nafallo_live> 2.13.2-0ubuntu2
[06:20] <Nafallo_live> ubuntu@ubuntu:~$ yelp
[06:20] <Nafallo_live> yelp: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/components/libdocshell.so: undefined symbol: PR_GetPhysicalMemorySize
[06:21] <dholbach> arg
[06:21] <dholbach> so the build-conflicts didn't help :/
[06:21] <Nafallo_live> I have it on my regular system aswell
[06:21] <dholbach> it works on all my systems
[06:21] <dholbach> strange strange
[06:21] <Nafallo_live> amd64?
[06:21] <dholbach> amd64 and i386
[06:21] <dholbach> but thanks for the heads up, i will try to find out what it is
[06:22] <dholbach> and how to circumvent it
[06:22] <Nafallo_live> kewl. I will probably be avaible for debugging tomorrow.
[06:23] <dholbach> merci, nafallo
[06:23] <Nafallo_live> de rien
[06:23] <dholbach> :)
[06:29] <seb128> Nafallo_live: do you have mozilla-browser installed?
[06:32] <Nafallo_live> seb128, nope. this is the current livecd
[06:32] <dholbach> libnspr4 maybe
[06:33] <Nafallo-live> sorry, I'm not used to US layout
[06:33] <seb128> dholbach: libnspr4 has to be installed
[06:33] <Nafallo-live> did I miss something?
[06:34] <Nafallo-live> evolution-alarm likes to eat my whole CPU-load btw
[06:34] <Nafallo-live> about 75%, gconfd-2 uses the rest.
[06:39] <seb128> Nafallo-live: on calendar?
[06:50] <ogra_test> pitti, language-support-en tries to load a dtd from w3c.org
[06:50] <PupenoL> I have created a kernel module package with module-assistant (zaptel-module), my problem is that it ends on /lib/modules/2.6.12 instead of /lib/modules/2.6.12-10-686/, any ideas ?
[06:50] <ogra_test> Kamion, with en_GB the install runs fine here
[06:51] <pitti> ogra_test: hmm? scary
[06:51] <pitti> ogra_test: what in particular?
[06:52] <ogra_test> xhtlm1-transitional.dtd
[06:52] <pitti> no, I mean which package
[06:52] <pitti> ogra_test: during installation, or when?
[06:52] <ogra_test> language-support-en
[06:52] <pitti> ogra_test: certainly not l-s-en itself, it's empty
[06:52] <ogra_test> thats the last i see on the console, then base-install stops
[06:53] <ogra_test> hmm, looikg at the log
[06:53] <Kamion> (base-config not base-install)
[06:53] <pitti> ogra_test: can you please check with netstat which program has the open connection?
[06:53] <ogra_test> its a bit odd with wrong kezboard settings
[06:53] <Kamion> (it's confusing because there's another thing called base-installer)
[06:53] <ogra_test> oh, yes
[06:54] <xhaker> Kamion, you're testing daily builds?
[06:54] <Kamion> xhaker: frequently
[06:54] <Kamion> xhaker: are you? :-)
[06:54] <xhaker> so, how much till a flight 2
[06:55] <xhaker> i wish i was
[06:55] <ogra_test> Setting up language-support-en (20051010) ...
[06:55] <ogra_test> I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd
[06:55] <ogra_test> I/O error : Attempt to load network entity http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd
[06:55] <xhaker> my connection is 512k :S not even rync will save my ass
[06:55] <ogra_test> thats the last in /var/log/base-config-pkgsel.log
[06:55] <Kamion> xhaker: Flight CD 2 is already going out to mirrors and will be announced as soon as the mirror with most bandwidth finishes getting it
[06:55] <Treenaks> ogra_test: cool!
[06:55] <Treenaks> Kamion: VERY cool :)
[06:55] <xhaker> Kamion, any "release notes" you want to share?
[06:56] <Kamion> xhaker: they'll be in the announcement
[06:56] <xhaker> oh
[06:56] <Kamion> too many to paste here
[06:56] <Treenaks> Kamion: any earth-shocking ones?
[06:56] <xhaker> i guess i'll make a visit (with my laptop) to my university today
[06:57] <ogra_test> pitti, any idea ?
[06:57] <Treenaks> we have the bandwidth, we have the diskspace..
[06:57] <Nafallo-live> xhaker, I kept a complete ubuntu mirror and current daily and daily-live on 512/512k.
[06:59] <mjg59> Diziet: New firefox breaks older epiphany, but doesn't declare a conflicts
[06:59] <mjg59> Diziet: Any information I can usefully give you?
[07:01] <Kamion> Treenaks: nothing really horrible, things like broken rescue mode under some circumstances and the already-known thing that network interfaces don't come up on boot; the worst is probably that the new live CD with unionfs seems very flaky indeed on powerpc
[07:01] <Treenaks> Kamion: ok, cool
[07:01] <xhaker> Treenaks some soundcards are in trouble too
[07:02] <xhaker> ogra__ my problem too.. but i would have to wait more
[07:02] <mjg59> Diziet: (1.8.2-ubuntu1 of epiphany-browser, 1.4.99+1.5rc3 of firefox)
[07:02] <xhaker> Nafallo-live, you kept i didnt ;(
[07:03] <Nafallo-live> xhaker, hehe
[07:06] <Burgwork> Kamion, are you going to include the DapperFlight2 wiki page in the annnouncement?
[07:08] <seb128> mjg59: firefox1.5 is not ABI compatible with 1.0.n
[07:08] <Kamion> Burgwork: yes
[07:08] <Kamion> (already in my draft)
[07:08] <mjg59> seb128: I know
[07:08] <Kamion> and if you look at the page history you'll see I've been fixing some minor things in it
[07:09] <seb128> mjg59: since firefox has no soname or whatever for that ...  just upgrade epiphany as well
[07:09] <seb128> (firefox could Conflicts on previous version of everything using it as well)
[07:09] <mjg59> seb128: A system that satisfies dependencies shouldn't have broken software
[07:09] <HiddenWolf> seb128, gstreamer0.10 is mentioned in the flight notes. Is it actually being used already?
[07:09] <seb128> HiddenWolf: no
[07:09] <HiddenWolf> seb128, might not want to give that impression then?
[07:09] <seb128> mjg59: so firefox should Conflicts on everything using it with the right version
[07:10] <seb128> HiddenWolf: I didn't write those note, I'm not the right guy to ping about that
[07:10] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: mgalvin's primarily responsible for that page
[07:10] <Amaranth> oops
[07:10] <HiddenWolf> mgalvin, ^^
[07:11] <mgalvin> HiddenWolf: I am fixing that now :)
[07:11] <Amaranth> i guess he thought since apps supported gst 0.10 in upstream that they did in dapper too
[07:11] <mgalvin> just got back from lunch
[07:11] <seb128> Amaranth: they don't upstream
[07:11] <mjg59> seb128: Everything we ship that depends on it, yeah
[07:12] <Amaranth> seb128: in #gnome-hackers they said totem, s-j, and rhythmbox all had support for it
[07:12] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth, but not the default yet. :)
[07:13] <xhaker> so, i'm going to test flight2.
[07:13] <xhaker> but, what about fixing the soundcards problem
[07:13] <seb128> Amaranth: "support" is a fuzzy notion :)
[07:13] <Amaranth> HiddenWolf: but that's a build problem :)
[07:13] <seb128> Amaranth: there is a bunch of plugins not ported to start
[07:14] <Diziet> mjg59: Hello.
[07:14] <seb128> Amaranth: some have patches travelling around but no official commit of them, some other have CVS code
[07:14] <Amaranth> seb128: true, but how many of those plugins can ubuntu ship anyway?
[07:14] <seb128> ship like what?
[07:14] <seb128> like we ship -dvd to universe?
[07:15] <mjg59> Diziet: Should Firefox be conflicting on rdepends that are built against older ABIs?
[07:15] <Diziet> Hrm.  Not sure I like Conflicts << really but I suppose it's the de-facto answer here.
[07:15] <Amaranth> seb128: but not libdvdcss
[07:15] <Diziet> The whole thing seems a bit borked really.
[07:15] <seb128> Amaranth: installing something from universe is one thing, not beeing able to install it is another
[07:15] <seb128> Amaranth: you can install that, I've it installed
[07:15] <Kamion> xhaker: that's rather orthogonal to CD releases
[07:15] <seb128> even if that's not from the main archive
[07:15] <Diziet> Do the new packages say  Depends: firefox (<= the next version that's going to break)  ?
[07:16] <mjg59> Diziet: No, since it's not really obvious what that's going to be
[07:16] <seb128> Diziet: what is the next version going to break?
[07:16] <seb128> 1.6? 2.0?
[07:16] <Diziet> We're not likely to ship a 1.6 are we ?
[07:16] <Amaranth> 2.0 is the next version
[07:16] <Amaranth> appearently they'
[07:17] <Amaranth> err
[07:17] <Diziet> And 2.0 is going to break the ABI again.
[07:17] <seb128> Amaranth: breaking ABI compatibility? not using xulrunner?
[07:17] <Amaranth> appearently they're planning on 2.0 for this time next year
[07:17] <Diziet> So 2.0 is that version.
[07:17] <mjg59> Can we have a firefox provides: firefox-abi-1.5 ?
[07:17] <Amaranth> 3.0 will be the one using xulrunner
[07:17] <Kamion> <=|<< next-version is tricky too because people do things like 1.5.99-rc1 for 1.6rc1
[07:17] <Diziet> mjg59: I think that's the best answer.
[07:18] <mjg59> Which doesn't fix the current breakage, but helps us later on
[07:18] <seb128> Diziet: that will not fix the issue of a partial update from 5.10
[07:18] <Diziet> Right.
[07:18] <mgalvin> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DapperFlight2#head-1bd3de61b9f3b96bdd546d69e847ccafac4a33bb
[07:18] <Kamion> seb128: it can coexist with Conflicts << easily enough, though
[07:18] <mgalvin> sound ok?
[07:18] <Amaranth> a partial update from 5.10 shouldn't be expected to work anyway, should it?
[07:18] <xhaker> mjg59 it is my impression that there has been a regression in dapper from laptop-mode or something.. like.. changing my laptop brightness triggers SLEEP... i remember seing this happen in breezy and then there was a fix
[07:18] <Kamion> Amaranth: er yeah, discounting the kernel/udev madness
[07:18] <seb128> Amaranth: why shouldn't it?
[07:18] <mjg59> Amaranth: If it satisfies dependences, why not?
[07:19] <Diziet> So the plan is: my next upload has  Provides: something-suitable  and  Conflicts <<  on all the old packages for which I have details.  Then all packages should change to say   Depends: something-suitable-1.5
[07:19] <mjg59> xhaker: hotkey-setup may need upgrading to deal with the new dmidecode
[07:19] <Diziet> Err, sorry, I mean  Provides: something-suitable-1.5
[07:19] <seb128> Diziet: I can make a list of GNOME stuff to Conflicts and put it to bugzilla if you want
[07:19] <Kamion> mgalvin: fixed your spelling :)
[07:19] <Diziet> `for which I have details'> seb128: Right, yes, please.
[07:19] <mgalvin> i just did too :)
[07:20] <Diziet> I need version numbers, not just package names, of course.
[07:20] <seb128> Diziet: np. Do you already have a bug about that, or should I open a new one?
[07:20] <Kamion> yeah, hit a conflict
[07:20] <Amaranth> ok so for this one do the conflicts and the provides, then next time you don't need the conflicts part, right?
[07:20] <seb128> Diziet: sure :)
[07:20] <Diziet> seb128: No.
[07:20] <Diziet> So open a new report.  Set it to P1 (if bugzilla will let you).
[07:20] <seb128> Amaranth: correct
[07:20] <mjg59> Amaranth: That's the idea
[07:20] <Kamion> I strongly think it should be "DVDs" etc. not "DVD's"
[07:20] <seb128> Diziet: k, will do
[07:20] <mgalvin> k, fixing
[07:20] <xhaker> mjg59 acer laptop
[07:21] <Kamion> (already done)
[07:21] <mjg59> xhaker: Yeah
[07:21] <Diziet> ATM I'm buried in the libnss build system but I will definitely have an upload by the end of the week.
[07:21] <Kamion> but yeah, otherwise looks good
[07:21] <Diziet> seb128: Do I need to file bugs against stuff which  Depends: firefox  ?
[07:21] <mgalvin> k, cool
[07:22] <seb128> Diziet: for what? To Depends on the new Provides?
[07:23] <Diziet> seb128: Yes.
[07:23] <Kamion> Is that not done with shlibdeps?
[07:23] <Diziet> Err, I suppose it might be.  I don't know how this embedding stuff works really.
[07:24] <seb128> Diziet: no need to bother, I'll change them after your upload
[07:24] <Kamion> Hmm, apparently not
[07:25] <Diziet> Very wise.
[07:25] <Diziet> seb128: OK, thanks.
[07:26] <HiddenWolf> seb128, you could just lobby to use ephy as default for dapper. ;)
[07:30] <seb128> HiddenWolf: that's not going to happen before having xulrunner
[07:31] <seb128> HiddenWolf: we need firefox anyway for gtkembedmoz atm
[07:32] <HiddenWolf> seb128, and that's version 3 of firefox, like 2 years away?
[07:32] <Amaranth> 1 1/2 to 2, yes
[07:32] <seb128> HiddenWolf: I'm not sure, Debian guys want to use xulrunned for etch and Suse already does atm
[07:32] <Amaranth> epiphany and gtkmozembed need to have firefox installed anyway, so that's a bit of a wash
[07:33] <seb128> Amaranth: not if you build epiphany with xulrunner
[07:34] <Amaranth> version 2 might use xulrunner, i just know 3 will for sure
[07:34] <Amaranth> but that's still 1 year from now
[07:35] <HiddenWolf> I don't get why there is no solid alternative to gecko/mozilla save for khtml
[07:35] <Amaranth> writing a web browser is hard
[07:35] <HiddenWolf> The engine is good, but using it doesn't exactly give other browsers anything that firefox/moz don't have.
[07:35] <HiddenWolf> using the same backend and chewing the same amount of ram, they have no solid advantages.
[07:36] <Amaranth> "Ship Firefox 2 no later than Q3 2006 and Firefox 3 no later than Q1 2007"
[07:36] <Treenaks> Amaranth: they're going the Sun/Java way?
[07:36] <HiddenWolf> Amaranth, factor in delays. ;)
[07:36] <Treenaks> Amaranth: 'Firefox 1.10 (but we'll call it 10!)'
[07:38] <pitti> Kamion: would you be opposed to putting the current dapper pmount into breezy-updates? Tons of people complain that they cannot mount floppy disks in breezy, and 0.9.6 fixes it; it's in dapper for quite a while now and already in breezy-backports
[07:39] <Kamion> pitti: can you mail me the diff? I'll have a look at some point over the next couple of days (about to go out to the pub and thereafter on vacation until beginning of next week ...)
[07:39] <pitti> Kamion: that diff will look pretty scary, I'll prepare a downsized patch
[07:40] <pitti> good bye mvo
[07:40] <Kamion> pitti: I would certainly prefer a reduced targeted change if possible
[07:40] <mvo> bye pitti 
[07:40] <Kamion> but I'm not opposed in principle
[07:40] <pitti> ok, I'll backport the necessary changes and mail you
[07:40] <pitti> Kamion: enjoy the pub :)
[07:42] <dholbach> whiprush: ping
[07:42] <dholbach> jdub: ping
[07:43] <whiprush> yo
[07:58] <Nafallo> jbailey: ping :-)
[07:58] <jbailey> Nafallo: pong
[07:58] <Nafallo> jbailey: bzr conflicts bzrtools?
[07:59] <jbailey> Nafallo: Right.  You're caught partway through a transition.
[07:59] <jbailey> Well, more like bzrtools hard depends on the version of bzr it was tested with.
[07:59] <jbailey> I'm just working out the last bits, but the idea is that you'll never get a combination of bzr and bzrtools where both selftests don't completely pass.
[08:00] <Nafallo> so I shouldn't remove either package but wait until both wants to be upgraded? :-)
[08:00] <jbailey> Right.
[08:00] <Nafallo> oki, nice :-)
[08:02] <jbailey> Nafallo: Redo your update, and you should get both happy now.
[08:03] <ogra_test> seb128, there is no option for focus follows mouse anymore ??
[08:03] <Nafallo> jbailey: I'm happy, thanks :-D
[08:04] <seb128> ogra_test: gnome-window-properties
[08:05] <seb128> ogra_test: it's just masked from the menu because that's not an standard user feature
[08:05] <ogra_test> seb128, yes, but no menu item 
[08:05] <seb128> MenusRevisited
[08:05] <ogra_test> ugh
[08:05] <ogra_test> so we doom the default user to click on his windows ? 
[08:05] <ogra_test> how odd
[08:05] <seb128> default settings should be sane
[08:05] <seb128> click to focus is nice for most of users
[08:06] <ogra_test> its the only thing me and all people around me change from the default, beside rolling up windows to the toolbar like apple does by default
[08:06] <seb128> if you know what focus on click or mouseover is you know enough to start the app or use a menu editor or use gconf-editor
[08:06] <ogra_test> sad, but i can live with it ...
[08:06] <ogra_test> (i guess)
[08:06] <seb128> why sad? that takes you like 5s to type the command I gave you
[08:06] <seb128> why couldn't you live with that?
[08:06] <ogra_test> sure
[08:07] <seb128> that's a bit of exageration
[08:07] <ogra_test> because clicking to focus is odd behavior ... worse is the maximize on title click
[08:07] <seb128> I like both
[08:07] <seb128> matter of taste
[08:07] <ogra_test> yup
[08:07] <HiddenWolf> ogra__, it's default for 90% of the worlds population
[08:08] <ogra_test> but i know a lot of apple users that love gnome for these ...
[08:08] <HiddenWolf> ogra__, i've never used differently as far as I can remember.
[08:08] <ogra_test> they will moan :)
[08:08] <seb128> appler users are a special case
[08:08] <ogra_test> heh
[08:08] <ogra_test> i'll tell them :)
[08:08] <seb128> alt-f10 is an insane shortcut
[08:08] <seb128> you can't do it with one hand on a normal keyboard
[08:09] <HiddenWolf> if anything, alt-f10 must be the most awkward and gymnastic shortcut on the boards. ;)
[08:09] <dholbach> you're a bunch of sissies ;)
[08:09] <HiddenWolf> dholbach, proudly so. :D
[08:09] <ogra_test> i never used this shortcut ...
[08:09] <dholbach> ROCK! that's the spirit!
[08:10] <ogra_test> huggers
[08:10] <ogra_test> heh
[08:11] <ogra_test> wow, ltsp-build-client runs since 2h here and is still not even 1/2 done ... 
[08:11] <dholbach> did anybody know http://packages.ubuntu.org.cn?
[08:11] <ogra_test> to silly it uses the us mirror by default for the boostrapping ...
[08:12] <HiddenWolf> dholbach, an ubuntu-spoofed url, with a debian theme, in chinese? Can't say I've had the pleasure. :)
[08:13] <dholbach> i think it's just the software, that runs on packages.debian.org put on by the .cn loco team
[08:13] <HiddenWolf> Probably. :)
[08:13] <ogra_test> but its great to test the chinese fonts work :)
[08:14] <HiddenWolf> Night guys.
[08:14] <dholbach> night HiddenWolf
[08:14] <ogra_test> night HiddenWolf 
[08:20] <xhaker> Kamion any wiki page with the cdimage mirrorS?
[08:30] <dholbach> you think, http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing should be in the flight2 release announce?
[08:35] <mgalvin> dholbach: maybe in the Participate in Ubuntu section possibly
[08:36] <dholbach> mgalvin: is that a section of the announce?
[08:36] <ogra_test> i'd rather put it in big letters on the top of the announcement, since thats all a flight release is for
[08:37] <mgalvin> well its on that wiki page i have been working on, i am not sure what the "official" announcement will include
[08:37] <dholbach> yeah, i thought along the same lines as ogra, just asking for opinions
[08:46] <jdong> interesting how MIT sends admission decisions in a tube....
[08:48] <jdong> now, Ubuntu scholarships would be a cool idea :)
[09:12] <lucasvo> is nfs working on dapper?
[09:13] <zul> yep
[09:13] <zul> for me at least
[09:51] <Kamion> xhaker: Archive
[09:53] <Kamion> dholbach: hmm, not sure how to phrase it in the announcement
[09:54] <Kamion> dholbach: "if you'd like to help with some of the tests we've already done, please look here"? :-)
[09:54] <Kamion> I'll see what I can do
[09:54] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:54] <Nafallo> they could always file bugs on things that doesn't work in the tests on their end? :-)
[09:55] <dholbach> Kamion: hehe, maybe somehow differently :)
[09:56] <Kamion> The following area of the wiki suggests various tests that can be
[09:56] <Kamion> performed on Flight CD releases to try to catch bugs far enough before
[09:56] <Kamion> the final release that they can be fixed:
[09:56] <Kamion>   http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing
[09:57] <Kamion> that ok?
[09:57] <dholbach> Kamion: "We appreciate any testing of the CDs. Please don't file bugs, please write nice mails stating what a nice job we do."
[09:57] <Kamion> maybe s/following/Testing/
[09:57] <dholbach> yeah, that looks good
[09:57] <Kamion> dholbach: heh, maybe not so productive :)
[09:57] <Nafallo> sounds good to me :-)
[09:58] <dholbach> after flight2 is announced, i'll announce the next bug day :)
[09:59] <Kamion> has anyone sent a reminder of tomorrow morning's distro team meeting yet?
[09:59] <dholbach> shall i do it?
[10:00] <Kamion> please
[10:00] <Nafallo> I haven't received one either.
[10:00] <dholbach> u-d-a@?
[10:00] <Kamion> yes
[10:00] <dholbach> ah yes, they went there before
[10:03] <daniels> Kamion: 0800 UTC?
[10:03] <Kamion> yes
[10:04] <daniels> Kamion: aha.  ok, I probably won't be able to make it; family commitments, and the broadband hasn't been moved over to the new place yet.
[10:04] <daniels> Kamion: i'll send janew a summary
[10:04] <Kamion> ok, please send ... what you said
[10:05] <dholbach> sent it
[10:06] <Kamion> dholbach: I think some of that is misleading
[10:06] <Kamion> I don't want to encourage people to spend time on merges this week, for example
[10:07] <Kamion> dholbach: could you send another message without that bit, and also "I am producing" => "Jane is producing"?
[10:07] <dholbach> oh yeah
[10:10] <dholbach> sorry, sent again
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ok, "good".
[10:12] <daniels> Kamion: \o/ flight :)
[10:14] <dholbach> Kamion: you could have sent the announce to  fridge-devel@lists.ubuntu.com  too (assuming you didnt bcc them)
[10:14] <lucasvo> am I the only person whoose terminal is not able to open deerpark after dapper upgrade?
[10:15] <Kamion> dholbach: accepted now
[10:15] <Kamion> dholbach: sorry, I've no idea how the fridge works, feel free to bounce it
[10:15] <dholbach> Kamion: will do so
[10:15] <Kamion> thanks
[10:16] <dholbach> you normally just send the announce mail to that mailing list too, jdub and whiprush will take care of it
[10:17] <Kamion> meh
[10:17] <dholbach> ROCK :)
[10:23] <dholbach> daniels: a new xdamage! maybe gnome-mag will be happy now? :-)
[10:23] <daniels> nah, you need a new xorg-server for that
[10:24] <daniels> i might upload it if I'm feeling spiteful
[10:24] <dholbach> take your time :)
[10:24] <dholbach> hi mdke
[10:24] <mdke> :)
[10:25] <LaserJock> hmm, hope he doesn't come back as ogra_dead ;-)
[10:26] <ogra_live> wow, the livecd is really impressive fast
[10:28] <ogra_live> the missing language selection is a bit odd, and i had a kernel oops on boot on amd64 with the i386 CD, but it runs anyway
[10:28] <fabbione> daniels: did you do an upload?
[10:28] <sivang> wow, flight two released :)
[10:28] <daniels> fabbione: a couple, yes
[10:29] <fabbione> daniels: ah i see..
[10:29] <daniels> fabbione: xorg-server and the sparc drivers are still pending
[10:29] <fabbione> :P
[10:29] <fabbione> daniels: no problem.. if you can get them to do before Xmas it would be very good
[10:29] <fabbione> otherwise you can just tar them up for me
[10:29] <fabbione> and i will work on them between xmas and new year
[10:29] <daniels> nah, 'scool, got them here on my disk, just need to check that they build OK with the old xserver before I upload
[10:30] <Kamion> ogra_live: intent is to move language selection to the bootloader, which you get on amd64/i386
[10:30] <Kamion> powerpc kind of loses at the moment
[10:30] <ogra_live> sad
[10:30] <ogra_live> but i could live with it
[10:31] <Kamion> we can probably figure something out, but it's more important to get this stuff basically working early
[10:31] <ogra_live> sadly i didnt catch the oops
[10:31] <Kamion> it'll be unionfs
[10:31] <Kamion> oh, you said amd64
[10:31] <Kamion> unionfs breaks on powerpc, not sure about amd64
[10:31] <fabbione> daniels: so does that mean you did resurrect your sparc?
[10:31] <daniels> fabbione: yeah, mostly
[10:31] <ogra_live> i currently run i386 on amd64 .... will switch soon
[10:31] <daniels> just need to get it networked
[10:32] <fabbione> daniels: ah nice :)
[10:32] <Mithrandir> ogra_live: the oops is known, and I know about the missing language stuff.  I guess I'll get around to that at the end of the week.
[10:33] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I have an implementation of simplifiedlive with devmapper now.  Untested, though.
[10:33] <ogra_live> oh, and a daniels thingie, my widescreen display isnt detected properly
[10:33] <ogra_live> i run at 1024x768 here
[10:36] <daniels> ogra_live: bug report with xresprobe output and Xorg.0.log please
[10:37] <ogra_live> will do, but now the next arch test first ... i'll come back to this
[10:39] <Kamion> Mithrandir: hooray
[10:40] <Mithrandir> Kamion: new-casper is really nice to work with.  A fair amount of cleanups still needed, but I like it.
[11:00] <ogra_live> fine fine ....
[11:01] <ogra_live> Kamion, edubuntu amd64 has the same bugs, fine too
[11:01] <doko> elmo: please sync gjdoc, java-gcj-compat, pwlib, openh323, overwriting ubuntu changes
[11:02] <ogra_live> Kamion, one thing i noted (didnt test on i386) was that i have no 1024x768 mode in the bootloader
[11:14] <dholbach> good night everybody
[11:14] <seth_k|lappy> night dholbach :)
[11:27] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont: give-back gnome-phone-manager everywhere pretty please :-)
[11:32] <ssam> daniels, you closed bug #20191 about via drivers yesterday, xorg still wont start for me with the fight2 live cd.
[11:33] <ssam> daniels, did the fix not make flight2?
[11:47] <Nafallo> daniels: ehm, dude! when did you give me Direct Rendering? :-)
[11:56] <eruin> Nafallo, on what? ;)
[11:56] <doko> elmo: please "sync" cyrus22-imapd from experimental
[11:56] <Nafallo> eruin: ATI Mobility Radeon 9700
[11:57] <eruin> oh...? the ati driver?
[11:57] <Nafallo> yea. with r300 support :-)
[11:58] <eruin> that sounds lovely... that means I can run openttd without fglrx!
[11:59] <Nafallo> I've never used fglrx ;-)
[12:00] <mdke> anyone know Diziet's bugzilla id?
[12:00] <tseng> try ian@ubuntu.com
[12:00] <mdke> thanks
[12:01] <mdke> no match :(
[12:01] <Nafallo> try typing ian jackson? :-)
[12:02] <mdke> aha
[12:02] <mdke> thanks