/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/19/#ubuntu-motu.txt

\shminghua: it's synced12:03
minghuacrimsun: and if not, how can I check if it's sitting in NEW or not?12:04
crimsunminghua: oh, that answers the question then. Nevermind. :)12:04
azeemaha12:04
azeem  m4_define([_AM_PYTHON_INTERPRETER_LIST] ,12:04
azeem            [python python2 python2.3 python2.2 python2.1 python2.0 python1.6 python1.5] )12:04
azeemthat's it, my autoconf was outdated I guess12:04
\shminghua: there is something wrong with the package..12:05
azeemor aclocal, rather12:05
crimsun\sh: just a ftbfs, debdiff provided. I'm uploading.12:05
\shcrimsun: it's all the time the same with those packages12:06
crimsunyep12:06
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-motu:\sh] : Ubuntu Masters of the Universe: Ubuntu Universe Repository Maintainers | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU | http://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUTodo | How To Track Merge Status -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUToMerge | Grab your merge here: http://tiber.tauware.de/~sistpoty/MoM/index.py?state=new | sign up for ubuntu-motu@lists.ubuntu.com now!
=== Trashcan [n=matt@ip70-176-253-127.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
crimsunminghua: just as an aside, the override doesn't need to be installed since the font path has changed12:07
minghuacrimsun: you are right, I missed that12:09
minghuacrimsun: I'll remember to patch that if I prepare another upload :-)12:10
crimsunminghua: done12:12
minghuacrimsun: thank you12:12
dholbachgood night everybody12:12
tsengbye dholbach12:13
minghuadholbach: good night12:14
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crimsunnight daniel12:17
azeemlifeless: we need a Build-Depends on swig I think12:21
lifelessazeem: makes sense12:22
lifelesspbuilder is nearly bootstrapped12:22
azeemlifeless: and I think if we have a generic python-opensync package, we also need to Build-Depends on python12:22
azeemdh_python aborts otherwise12:22
lifelessmeep.12:23
azeemyou can pass it a specific version, but not sure what that means for the generic package12:23
lifelessdoes not pythonx.y-dev pull in python ?12:23
azeemnope12:23
lifelessnuts12:23
lifelessok.12:23
lifelesslets do 2.412:23
azeemok12:23
azeemlifeless: drat, we need python in any case12:29
azeemmy $python = 'python';12:30
azeemmy $python_version = `$python -V 2>&1`;12:30
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lifelessazeem: fair enough12:32
lifelesshead debian/control12:32
lifelessSource: opensync12:32
lifelessSection: libs12:32
lifelessPriority: optional12:32
lifelessMaintainer: Robert Collins <robertc@robertcollins.net>12:32
lifelessBuild-Depends: debhelper (>= 4.0.0), libglib2.0-dev, libsqlite3-dev, libxml2-dev, check, python2.4, python2.4-dev, swig12:32
lifelessStandards-Version: 3.6.212:32
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azeemlifeless: sorry, I meant we really need the `python' package, not `python2.4'.  The latter is dragged in by python2.4-dev12:35
lifelessazeem: python2.4 provide python12:36
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azeemah12:36
lifelessas a binary I mean12:36
lifelessvia alternatives12:36
ograhey loogaroo  :)12:37
azeemlifeless: I wonder why it didn't build then12:37
loogaroohi all :)12:37
lifelessright, that should be the dbg package fixed12:39
lifelesssilly me, copied the borked sample packages compat rule :[12:39
azeemlifeless: I just tried again in my unstable chroot, and there's no /usr/bin/python there.  Maybe it's different in breezy/dapper?12:41
lifelessis python2.4 installed ?12:41
lifelesscheck update-alternatives12:41
azeemlrwxrwxrwx  1 root root 9 Oct 22 14:03 /usr/bin/python -> python2.4*12:42
azeemthis is on breezy, it's not using alternatives12:42
lifelessoh, ah. I see12:42
azeemthere's no python alternative in the unstable chroot either12:42
lifelessif its not using alternatives12:42
lifelessthen its because of the (IMO) broken python version handling12:42
minghuaI don't think python uses alternatives for /usr/bin/python12:42
lifelesswhen, oh WHEN will debian transition12:43
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lifelessso, guess we have to depend on python literally as you say12:43
azeemnighthawk~/src/cvs/opensync-debian$ grep alternatives /var/lib/dpkg/info/python2.4.postinst12:43
minghuaon sid it's symlinked to /usr/bin/python2.312:43
azeemupdate-alternatives --remove python /usr/bin/python2.4 || true12:43
lifelessI wonder if we can pass an appropriate option to configure to still get 2.412:43
lifeless(I don't wan to try and support 2.3 bindings12:44
lifeless(its getting too old these days12:44
lifelessyay12:44
azeemhrm12:44
lifelesswe have stripped symbols12:44
lifelessI do love debhelper.12:44
\shlifeless: error message? check makefile.am or something like this for occurances to python2.312:44
azeemI think we're fine if we just add the python pseudo package to Build-Depends and nuke python-opensync12:45
azeemit's really dh_python sillyness that requires the formerI think12:45
lifelesspushing12:45
lifelessright, now for the stub python package12:45
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lifelesswhich is still being stubbon12:50
lifelessthe package dir is made, but is empty :[12:50
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azeembuilt fine now12:53
azeemthis also fixed the issue with exporting PYTHON12:55
lifelesssweet12:56
lifelesscan you recommend a good sample package that does a stub python-module ?12:56
lifelessthis is shitting me :[12:57
minghuaI don't understand the efforts put on this BetterCJKSupport thing12:57
=== ajmitch returns
azeemlifeless: I try to stay clear from this python madness, although I maintain two or three python packages/modules myself12:57
azeembut they are probably totally illegal12:57
lifelessazeem: ;)12:58
lifelessazeem: I already maintain stuff in python, its just the stub package bit that I've avoided successfully so far12:58
minghuahow did the spec work?  my understanding is that the developers think what they want to work on for this release, propose a spec, discuss with others, write a draft, get approved, then write the code.  is that correct?12:58
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=== ajmitch hasn't done the module madness for python yet
ajmitchI've touched a few in universe, though12:58
ajmitchminghua: more or less, yes12:59
ajmitchbut anyone can propose a spec12:59
ograminghua, between "write a draft" and "get approved" there are several stages of "request review" and "write a draft" involved12:59
ogra;)01:00
minghuayeah, I can imagine things aren't easy :-)01:00
ajmitchogra: and 'remove crack'01:01
ajmitchbut it's oh so much fun01:01
ograand there seems some requirement for good japanese input methods in main i was at a fair in germany two weeks ago and had some long discussions with people that are annoyed about having to intall it from unierse01:02
azeemlifeless: how annoying, the configure script detects python2.3 and won't look further01:02
azeemso it ran fine, but it can't find tmp/usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/_opensync.la later on01:02
\shazeem: what doesn configure.in/.ac tells you?01:03
ograwhy the heck has debian still 2.3 ?01:03
lifelessbecause doko has not done the transition01:03
ograbah01:03
ajmitchbecause doko is working on a new python scheme01:03
lifelesstheres presumably good reason for the lockstep immobile policy in debia01:03
lifelessn01:03
ajmitchso we won't have lots of pythonx.x-foo packages01:04
lifelessbut it doth not make sense to me at the moment, and I didn't get time to talk with doko about it01:04
lifelessajmitch: the best is the enemy of the good01:04
lifelessajmitch: we should transition before python 2.6 is released!01:04
ajmitchlifeless: certainly - it's targetted for dapper though01:04
ogralifeless++01:04
ajmitchat least it's on doko's roadmap :)01:04
minghuaogra: the problem is always that a lot of people are asking for input methods, but few people are working on it :-(01:04
\shwhich will be more fun01:04
ograminghua, exactly ...01:04
ajmitchminghua: not enough people know about the area01:05
ograminghua, icouldnt give any reliable answers myself ...01:05
ajmitchlifeless: and transitions in debian have to be scheduled with the release managers in a way :)01:06
ograajmitch, there are approximately 1/3 of asian humans running around on this planet, why cant we find some to work on it ?01:06
lifelessoh eww01:06
lifelessajmitch: so we should reduce the number of 'transitions' needed.01:06
ajmitchlifeless: well they get deferred so that there aren't huge numbers of breakages at once, eg C== & X01:06
ajmitchc++01:06
minghuaajmitch: actually many people know, but language is really a problem01:06
ajmitchogra: because we have problems getting anyone like that involved in development?01:06
minghuaand IMHO asian people are usually more shy :-)01:06
dokolifeless: we'll do before the end of this year ;-P01:06
ograajmitch, hmm ...01:07
ajmitchdoko: great! :)01:07
lifelessdoko: dude, you are awake. cool.01:07
ogratime for a conf in asia then :)01:07
ajmitchogra: look at how many europeans are involved in ubuntu development :)01:07
lifelessdoko: I'm having trouble making a stub python-opensync to pull in python2.4-opensync01:07
lifelessdoko: HELP!01:07
minghuabefore end of this year - sounds a great promise :-)01:07
ograwth the advantage that jdub and lifeless dont have to fly that far :)01:07
=== ajmitch is counting those of european descent - US, australia, NZ, etc :)
tsengnice to lump 3 continents together01:08
tsengand your nice little island01:08
ograand call it european, lol01:08
ograeurope is everything except china ?01:08
ogra:)01:09
minghuaogra: ha, that sounds exactly the mind set of ancient Chinese :-)01:09
tsengchina was somewhat colonized by europeans01:09
dokolifeless: please send me an email, I think I had one of the mulled wines was bad ...01:09
lifelessdoko: ok, will do.01:09
lifelessthanks01:09
ajmitchtseng: all colonised by europeans :)01:10
lifelessogra: haven't you heard of eurasia ?01:10
lifeless:)01:10
ogralol01:10
=== ogra votes for everybody who doesnt use chopsticks
ograhmm, but that would exclude sladen ...01:11
ajmitchhaha01:11
ajmitchogra: but seriously, we don't have nearly enough people that can do input methods involved01:13
ograyup01:13
ograthats true ...01:13
ograwe certainly need more people from asia involved who actually can work on it01:14
ajmitchwe've got a few users who want it, at least01:15
minghuaajmitch, ogra: in case you don't know, I am actually an "input method" guy01:15
ajmitchminghua: I know01:15
ograminghua, i suspected that :)01:15
ajmitchminghua: but we need more people, get recruiting! :)01:15
azeemlifeless: build doesn't depend on the configure stamp01:15
azeemso it won't autorconf by itself01:15
minghuabut I can't find any other people willing to work together with me to improve the input method packages in ubuntu01:16
azeemeh, autoreconf01:16
lifelessazeem: :)01:16
lifelessazeem: are you hacking up configure.in ? I am too.01:16
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ajmitchlifeless: why are both make clean & make distclean called?01:16
minghuaajmitch: actually not a bad idea, I should talk with the ubuntu-jp people to see what they have01:16
lifelessajmitch: my bad01:16
ajmitchdoes upstream have broken makefiles?01:16
azeemlifeless: no, I just saw that.  I had to run autoreconf manually when I first tried, and didn't realize it was meant to be called by the package01:17
minghuabut probably not in time for dapper01:17
ogralifeless, azeem, time for gobby ?01:17
ajmitchminghua: I know that ubuntu-kr has really taken off since jsgotangco's talk01:17
minghuaI'm working on ubuntu at free time after all01:17
lifelessogra: if it worked maybe :)01:17
ajmitchminghua: as are most of us :)01:17
ogra:P01:17
minghuaajmitch: :-)01:17
ograbtw, \sh any gobby news from phillip ?01:18
\shogra: bope01:18
\shnope even01:18
ajmitchlifeless: fwiw, I still don't get revno 13 or later when I pull01:18
lifelessajmitch: do you have a squid ?01:18
lifelessajmitch: or a sucky ISP ?01:18
ogra\sh, the first one soended like your nose is running ;) fits well :)01:18
minghuaajmitch: yes, Atie from korea add some quite nice info on the wiki page, and I like his style of filing malone bugs01:18
ajmitchsquid & a sucky ISP01:18
\shogra: hehe :)01:19
lifelessajmitch: can you check your access.log ?01:19
ograajmitch, tell them to use willow, its the future ! squid is bloat01:19
azeemhah, got it01:20
ajmitchlifeless: sure, and I don't see anything there01:20
azeemlifeless: if we add PYTHON=/usr/bin/python2.4 both to configure's line and before $(MAKE), it won't use 2.301:20
azeemthe latter is maybe only needed cause I mucked with configure to remove the python2.3 check there, which didn't work01:21
lifelessajmitch: ok, so its bypassing squid :[01:21
lifelessajmitch: do you have http_proxy set ?01:21
ajmitchno, I unset it01:21
lifelesssweet, my patch works.01:21
ajmitchheh01:21
azeemlifeless: cool01:22
ajmitchlifeless: I set http_proxy, and got a TCP_MISS in access.log01:29
lifelessok01:29
ajmitchbut still 0 revisions pulled :)01:29
lifelessdid that help or hinder ?01:29
lifelessok.01:29
lifelessso its your freaking upstream01:29
ajmitchyeah01:29
lifelesstheres a bug report on this01:29
ajmitchnot the first time I've had this01:30
azeemlifeless: we also need to Build-Depend on automake, autoconf, if we keep the autoreconf01:33
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lifelessazeem: not just autotools-dev ?01:34
ajmitchautotools-dev doesn't depend on the others, iirc01:34
azeemlifeless: no, that just provides config.{guess,sub}01:34
lifelesstheres an autosomethingen01:34
lifelessthat brings in the current01:34
azeemautomaken01:35
ajmitchautomaken?01:35
azeemI'd rather do automake1.9 and be done01:35
ajmitchit'd help to keep it sane on the next auto* incompatibility01:35
azeemI think automaken is even discouraged for Debian packaging, but not sure01:35
lifelessok01:35
lifelessI've pushed the confgigure change to the opensync-debian tree01:36
lifelessand control updates for those deps01:37
Nafallo*sigh*01:38
azeem-build: debian/build-stamp01:38
azeem+build: configure debian/build-stamp01:38
azeemI think we need this as well01:38
azeemin debian/rules01:38
ajmitchconfigure-stamp would be good01:38
Nafalloajmitch: what to do with php4-interbase? it wants firebird2-dev, which is for good reason probably in p-a-s for amd64.01:39
ajmitchNafallo: hm?01:39
lifelesspushed01:39
Nafalloworking on merges ;-).01:39
azeemajmitch: well, configure is a file which isn't there, so it might be alright01:39
ajmitchNafallo: I saw that01:39
ajmitchazeem: that's true01:39
Nafallogood reason is a HEAP of cast from...01:40
ajmitchNafallo: so you think that php4-interbase should not be tried on amd64?01:41
ajmitchor what are you asking me?01:41
=== minghua just got a mail from the Debian maintainer of scim-hangul :-)
Nafalloajmitch: I dunno what the solution should be actually :-)01:41
ajmitchNafallo: are you working on an amd64?01:41
azeemok, built fine now01:41
Nafalloyepp01:41
ajmitchaha01:41
ajmitchNafallo: 32-bit chroot then ;)01:42
NafalloPackage: php4-interbase01:42
NafalloArchitecture: any01:42
Nafallowill still FTBFS because of missing build-dep...01:42
ajmitchmissing on amd6401:43
ajmitchright?01:43
ajmitchwell firebird2-dev is only built on i38601:43
Nafalloright01:43
Nafalloso change that any to i386?01:44
Nafalloor try to get firebird2 to build on amd64? ;-)01:44
ajmitchNafallo: it should build01:45
ajmitchhttp://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=14750001:45
ajmitchlast comment there01:46
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NafalloI'm sure it build, but it still has LOTS of cast-to-pointer errors01:47
\shgood night :)01:47
Nafallobut then again. looks like php4-interbase is also only built on i386, so p-a-s probably ;-)01:48
Nafallohmm01:49
Nafalloajmitch: you don't happen to have an i386 happy to build somewhere? ;-)01:50
lifelessazeem: http://svn.opensync.org/multisync/tags/multisync-0.90.18 <- matching multisync01:50
azeemlifeless: those are just command-line tools, right?01:52
ajmitchNafallo: I've got an i386 box, sure01:52
lifelessazeem: not at all, thats the full multisync gui01:52
lifelessazeem: as well as msynctool01:53
lifelesswhich is a command line tool01:53
Nafalloajmitch: care to testbuild php4-interbase from debian unstable on it? :-)01:53
azeemah01:53
Nafalloshould be fine, but I never upload/request syncs without testing ;-)01:54
lifelessazeem: so, think the engine is ready for an upload ?01:54
azeemlifeless: well, we could wait for me packaging the other stuff to actually test it...01:55
azeembut then, it builds, so ship it!01:55
lifelessazeem: I've just built msynctool 0.90.18 against the installed opensync-dev package.01:55
lifelessazeem: :)01:55
azeemwiit01:55
azeemeh, woot01:56
=== azeem is currently triaging multisync-0.8x bugs
ajmitchNafallo: 1 sec01:56
ajmitchdapper pbuilder base went strange again01:56
lifelessI must go do real work now :[01:56
lifelessI'll ship this up to NEW now though01:56
ajmitchgood old md5sum  mismatch from apt-proxy01:56
lifelesswhere it can linger a year or so01:56
azeemok01:56
azeemI'm going to bed now01:56
lifelessnight01:56
ajmitchlifeless: great, thanks01:56
azeemNEW is pretty fast these dasy01:57
azeemdays, even01:57
ajmitchyeah, it's under 2 weeks for most packages now01:57
ajmitchoften under 101:57
Nafallodebians or ubuntus? :-)01:57
ajmitchdebian01:57
lifelessNafallo: ubuntus is hours01:57
Nafallolifeless: yea, that's what I thought :-)01:58
ajmitchwe can't afford to lose a week of an ubuntu release cycle :)01:58
Nafallohehe, very true :-)01:58
lifelessman the python bindings are weak01:58
lifelessthey should write msynctool in python01:58
lifelessthen they would get good fast.01:58
=== Nafallo already looks forward to some bits of dapper+1 ;-)
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ajmitchNafallo: give me a bit while I bash apt-proxy02:02
Nafalloajmitch: sure :-)02:02
lifelessajmitch: can we sync things that are in NEW ?02:03
ajmitchnope02:03
ajmitchnot publically readable02:03
lifeless..02:03
ajmitchthe earliest it's syncable is from incoming02:03
minghuawhat about from UploadQueue on ftp-master before it enters NEW? :-P02:06
lifelessajmitch: yeah, sync it ....02:06
lifelessNOW02:08
lifelessquick, before cron kicks in02:09
ajmitchheh02:09
ajmitchI wish we could, really02:09
ajmitchbut it's elmo's scripts02:09
ajmitchyou didn't set azeem or myself in Uploaders, did you?02:09
lifelessnot yet, I figure you can patch and publish a branch yourselves :)02:10
ajmitchyeah, once my ISP doesn't suck as much02:10
=== minghua hate people keep mentioning 1.4 billion chinese people when talking about input method
ajmitchminghua: because most of those 1.4 billion don't have access to computers?02:13
minghuaI mean, hell, how many of them have even touched (let alone owned/co-owned) a computer?  50 million?02:14
minghuaajmitch: exactly02:14
ajmitchI think the point is not just how many have, but how many more might be able to02:14
ajmitchmore dreams of world domination, etc :)02:14
minghuayeah, everyone envies the big market of China :-)02:16
ajmitchthere's even a lot of chinese people outside of china, who might want it :)02:16
ajmitchlike my flatmate for the last couple of years, using winxp :)02:16
=== ajmitch would have liked to have put ubuntu on his laptop :)
minghuaajmitch: actually from what I see, about half of the zh_CN l10n people are abroad02:17
ajmitchyeah02:17
ajmitchtranslation for example, require a decent knowledge of the english strings to translate02:17
ajmitchI don't know how much english is taught in schools there :)02:18
minghuaajmitch: that would be awesome :-)  maybe you can show him dapper (I guarantee we'll have a working scim in dapper)02:18
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ajmitchminghua: well he's left now02:18
ajmitchgone back to china for summer & living elsewhere in dunedin next year02:19
minghuaajmitch: quite a lot.  the problem, though, is the students forget them quickly once the exam is over :-)02:19
ajmitchof course :)02:19
crimsunI probably need to get more involved in that, heh.02:20
minghuahey crimsun, do you speak chinese fluently?02:21
minghuaI suppose it's not your first language...02:21
crimsunno, not by any stretch of anyone's imagination.02:21
ajmitchminghua: you're in the US now, right?02:21
minghuaajmitch: yes, Ph.D. student02:21
crimsunI understand it completely if it's spoken _to_ me, but it takes me a while to respond02:21
minghuacrimsun: that's not bad :-)  what about written Chinese?02:22
crimsunwritten's a bit better than spoken but not by much02:22
=== ajmitch understands none at all :)
minghuahey, maybe we should form a MOTUChinese team ;-)02:23
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crimsunhehe02:23
ajmitchwell half the MOTUs could form the #ubuntu-motu-de, I think ;)02:24
minghuaanyway, I believe ubuntu will have better support for chinese than debian in the near future02:25
NafalloI would be alone in MOTUSwedish ;-)02:25
Nafallominghua: that's good news :-)02:25
ajmitchminghua: hopefully that support from ubuntu can get into debian02:25
minghuaajmitch: I hope so too, but pushing things in Debian is hard02:26
minghuaajmitch: I plan to apply for ubuntu member and MOTU soon, so that working in ubuntu is easy02:27
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crimsungreat :)02:27
minghuaI'm still heavily involved in debian stuff, but NM progress is like forever02:27
minghuathat's actually the no. 1 reason ubuntu attracts me (as a developer, anyway), more open developing process02:28
Nafalloajmitch: ping php4-interbase? :-)02:29
=== minghua hasn't dare to apply for NM yet, because he doesn't have time to read through social contract, DFSG and debian policy... :-P
Nafallowhy don't we have something like this: http://www.buildd.net/cgi/nowbuilding.cgi ?02:36
Nafallonm, launchpad will probably have something like that :-)02:38
ajmitchNafallo: still got pbuilder breakage, you'll have to ask someone else sorry :(02:46
ajmitchNafallo: yes, launchpad already has an interface like that, which we can't see ;)02:47
=== ajmitch saw the demo of it at UBZ
=== minghua is heading home
ajmitchbye minghua02:48
minghuasee you soon guys02:48
Nafalloajmitch: hehe, oki :-)02:48
Nafalloajmitch: hmm, I might aswell check the buildlogs sometime tomorrow ;-)02:49
Nafallowhat launchpad does seems very much like what debian calls multibuild :-P02:50
ajmitchhow so?02:51
NafalloI have dejavu when I read the draft. it doesn't differ to much from what's in the launchpad specs IMO.02:53
Nafalloatleast some parts. now it feels more like things we want ;-)02:54
Nafallobut one step at a time now :-)02:54
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minghuahello MOTUs, I am back03:13
bmontyhey minghua03:13
ajmitchhi03:15
minghuahi bmonty.  what timezone are you in?03:15
bmontyminghua: central03:16
minghuabmonty: oh!  I've in central too.  I'm in Houston03:16
bmontyI'm in Omaha03:17
bmontyajmitch: you having problems with riots in NZ also?03:19
StevenKSydney is too, which is terrible.03:22
ajmitchbmonty: no riots here03:23
minghuaha.  apparently lpbugs.py can't handle a bug not assigned to a package :-)03:23
bmontyajmitch: good to hear03:23
ajmitchStevenK: sydney is terrible? yeah, I'd probably agree :)03:23
lifelessbmonty: NZ is a lot saner than .au03:26
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minghuahi freeflying03:34
minghuafreeflying: did you get my mail about skim?03:34
freeflyingminghua: hi03:34
freeflyingminghua: y03:34
freeflyingminghua: now ,i'm waiting for skim's uploading to debian from mentor03:36
ajmitchfreeflying: you got a sponsor?03:36
minghuafreeflying: that's good to know, but it may not be in time for dapper though03:36
ajmitchminghua: why not? :)03:36
ajmitchdebian isn't *that* slow03:37
minghuawe have UVF in the middle of Jan, right?03:37
ajmitchyes03:37
ajmitch5 weeks away03:37
minghuaajmitch: no, the debian maintainer is not freeflying03:37
ajmitchright..03:37
minghuaand from my previous experience with William, his response time isn't that great...03:37
minghuaspeaking for the speed of debian...  I just noticed that some packages got out of NEW03:40
ajmitchthey take a week or 2 in NEW03:41
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StevenKI had one that was sitting in NEW for 3 weeks.03:58
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StevenKAnd it was just a little Perl package.03:58
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StevenKWhat's UVF?03:59
bmontyupstream version freeze03:59
Amaranthupstream version freeze03:59
Amaranthit means no more merge-o-matic04:00
bmontywell at least I know I can type faster than Amaranth :)04:00
ajmitchit means less shiny new crack04:00
Amaranthbmonty: i'm on dialup :P04:00
bmontyexcuses....04:00
ajmitchNB: we will allow new packages in universe, that don't require new libs, etc, up until feature freeze04:00
Amaranthmine showed up way before yours here ;)04:00
ajmitchwhich is 4 weeks later than UVF04:00
ajmitchit means that we'll do a lot of reviewing & getting REVU cleared04:01
LaserJockso what happened to Review Day?04:22
ajmitchLaserJock: what do you mean?04:23
ajmitchpeople tried to review stuff04:23
ajmitchit's always an ongoing task04:23
LaserJockIt didn't seem like there was much activity that I could see. I wondered if it was canceled04:23
ajmitchseems like everyone thinks it's a failure04:23
ajmitchmaybe we shouldn't bother04:23
LaserJockIs there a way to see the stats04:23
LaserJockajmitch: no, I think it's good, just hard to see what's going on04:24
tsengnot really, revu keeps a log of comments04:24
minghuayeah, I saw many useful comments as well04:24
tsengif you have a better idea, you know what to do :)04:24
LaserJockI was just thinking that maybe if there was something like what we have for the merge04:25
minghuaraphink is really a nice reviewer from what I see04:25
=== ajmitch is not a nice reviewer
LaserJockdoes anybody know how many got accepted over Review Day?04:26
ajmitchLaserJock: it will come in time04:26
ajmitchsince revu is being rewritten04:26
ajmitchthe current code is a bit of a mess04:27
ajmitchand we're trying to keep away from '2.0 syndrome'04:27
LaserJockI'm not complaining so much as trying to figure things out :-)04:27
lifelesssecond system syndrome :)04:27
ajmitchlifeless: essentially :)04:27
lifelessajmitch: thats the name of the syndrome - it alliterates04:28
ajmitchright04:28
ajmitchI knew I'd heard it somewhere04:28
=== minghua reads an interesting thread on the forum
ajmitchLaserJock: maybe we could add your requests to the features list ;)04:30
LaserJockajmitch: is there a place to add requests?04:30
minghuasomeone is running dapper as daily desktop, and in order to dodge problematic upgrades, he runs dapper in a VM as well, just to test upgrades04:31
ajmitchLaserJock: not really at the moment04:31
ajmitchLaserJock: we've got a spec written up from UBZ04:31
LaserJockminghua: hmm, doesn't seem like that would help with hardware problems04:31
ajmitchhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU2Spec04:32
minghuaLaserJock: I agree04:32
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ajmitchsigh, more autopackage threads on the forums04:33
LaserJockajmitch: is REVU2 written in Python?04:34
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ajmitchLaserJock: sure04:36
minghuaajmitch: I just can't bare with some of the forum users04:36
ajmitchminghua: I generally don't bother with them04:37
minghuaI just read a thread about scim, there are five or six people complaining an issue, which I've written in NEWS.Debian.gz, has a debian bug and a malone bug open, yet these guys knows nothing about it and don't bother to check04:38
minghuaand some of these said users claim in the forum "we need to have good, out-of-box scim support in dapper" while doing absolutely nothing AFAICS04:40
ajmitchminghua: it does get depressing04:46
LaserJockminghua: there is quite a bit of that in the scientific community as well.04:46
ajmitchwhich is why I try & avoid the forums04:46
ajmitchotherwise I'd never want to work on dapper ;)04:47
LaserJockbut then the forums users start saying "the devs don't care about us". It's a vicous cycle ;-)04:48
minghuayeah, I try not get affected by those posts as well04:48
minghuajust felt like ranting.  now I feel much better :-)04:49
LaserJockgood04:49
ajmitchrant away04:50
minghuaLaserJock: my position right now is "let them say whatever they want", it's a free distro after all04:50
minghuait's not that canonical or ubuntu own anybody anything04:50
minghuaif they are so unsatisfied, they can start their own distro ;-)04:51
LaserJockyeah, I just worry sometimes when these people's posts are read by hundreds of new users04:51
bmontyamen!04:51
ajmitchthere's just such a lack of communication, they don't file bugreports, talk to developers, etc04:52
bmontyajmitch: I don't think you can fault users for not filing bug reports....malone isn't the most intuitive to use right now04:53
LaserJockyeah, there is this expectation that everything should be done on the forums. I was there once, with Gentoo.04:53
minghuaI don't know.  some days ago I read on #debian-devel that he is happy that the users used to rant at #debian are ranting at #ubuntu now04:53
bmontyforums are the technology of choice right now unfortunately04:53
ajmitchLaserJock: difference in culture04:53
ajmitchdevelopers are used to IRC & mail04:53
bmontyajmitch: right, but that doesn't mean the users should be IMHO04:54
ajmitchand the forums are 'official'04:54
ajmitchso developers should be on there, right?04:54
bmontyno, but they appear to be04:54
bmontyI personally can't stand the forums...they are hard to search and slow to load04:54
ajmitchthey are official04:54
bmontyok, I thought I read that they weren't04:55
minghuaI would expect that there are at least some forum users with clue can point to/file bugs according to the forum discussions04:55
LaserJockbmonty: I'm more used to forums so I find the email+IRC thing to be hard sometimes, although I am getting better at it04:56
minghuaI used to do that in Chinese debian forums, now I only act as the "clueful user" for the official chinese mailing list though04:56
ajmitchLaserJock: I don't quite grasp what is 'hard' about them :)04:57
ajmitchbut that's because I've been used to them for several years, perhaps04:57
LaserJockwell, with the forums it is all in one source04:57
minghuaI started with BBS, so I like that, but I can't stand web forums :-(04:57
bmontyI liked the post giving Matt Garrett a hard time about his request for info on Dell laptops....a good example of this issue04:57
ajmitchbmonty: url?04:57
minghuaon the other hand, mailing list with mutt makes me feel at home :-)04:58
ajmitchminghua: oh yes, mutt is nice ;)04:58
bmontyhttp://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013690.html04:58
minghuayeah, one of my officemate recently started trying mutt as well04:58
ajmitchbmonty: you said the post giving him a hard time?04:59
=== ajmitch saw the request
LaserJockI see how MLs and IRC is good for developers (I wouldn't be here if I didn't) but the forums are easier for me to find info a lot of times. Of course, that's when the forums are good quality04:59
minghuaactually I seem to be influencing the linux software choice of the whole group04:59
bmontyoops04:59
ajmitchthe reply?05:00
minghuaeverybody in our group uses vi and gnome :-)05:00
bmontyhttp://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013691.html05:00
ajmitchyes, someone who wants to flame mjg5905:00
ajmitchthey don't know what they're dealing with :)05:00
bmontyI think that guy gauranteed that all of the devs for ubuntu will ignore him in the future :)05:01
bmontyanyway time for me to go to bed...goodnight everyone!05:01
ajmitchhttp://www-jcsu.jesus.cam.ac.uk/~mjg59/irritated.txt05:01
ajmitchmmm, flames05:01
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ajmitchok, bbl05:03
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=== minghua wonders why this override feature for binary packages is in debian in the first place
minghuait seems like designed for ubuntu :-)05:35
ajmitchminghua: which override?05:36
LaserJockmaybe they were thinking ahead ;-)05:36
minghuaajmitch: like in "dpkg-scanpackage repo override"05:36
ajmitchright05:36
ajmitchthere are so many overrides around, that I can't tell which one you mean :)05:36
lifelessminghua: because developers are muppets05:37
minghualifeless: huh?  are muppets "a group of puppets and costume characters" as explained in wikipedia?05:40
ajmitchmuppets, as in silly people05:41
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LaserJockhi Kyral and tritium06:30
tritiumhi LaserJock06:31
Kyralhey...06:32
Kyral*THUD*06:32
LaserJockKyral: how's school>06:32
Kyral2 finals and over 6 hours of PHP coding today06:32
Kyralyou tell me06:32
LaserJockKyral: it will be nice when it's over. At least until it starts again ;-)06:34
Kyralif I come back06:34
LaserJock? why not06:34
tritiumaw, school is fun06:34
KyralI think I bombed my Calc2 exam06:35
LaserJockhmm, I think I did too. Calc2 was one of my nastier classes as an undergrad06:36
tritiumdon't worry about it, Kyral06:36
KyralYah...seeing as this is my second chance already? lol06:36
LaserJockwell, I guess you could drop out and start a multibillion dollar software company06:37
LaserJockbut I don't know that I would reccomend that ;-)06:38
Kyral....06:38
LaserJockKyral: so what will you degree be in?06:46
KyralI'm IN CS ;P06:47
KyralA CS Major that hates math, go figure06:47
LaserJockI wouldn't think a lot of CS would require that many math skills06:48
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zakamerainy afternoon :D07:11
zakameer, pardon me asking, but what does a XXX-given-back.gz in the buildLogs mean?07:25
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minghuaJohn Goerzen's story on planet.debian.org is amazing07:29
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zakamehello tritium ! :D07:42
tritiumhi zakame07:42
tritiumWhat's up?07:42
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zakamehere responding to a DD's mail for gpsd :)07:48
zakameHe was curious as to how we manage our changelogs, and if we close Debian bugs in them ;)07:48
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lifelessajmitch: do new packages in debian automatically flow down ?08:06
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dholbachgood morning motus!08:22
crimsun'morning daniel08:22
tritiumHi Daniel.08:23
zakameafternoon dholbach! :D08:23
crimsun'morning michael, zak08:24
tritiumHi crimsun.08:24
zakamecrimsun: are you still doing #4082 , I duplicated it with mein bug :(08:24
crimsunUbugtu: 408208:25
dholbachhey daniel, michael, zak - how are you guys?08:25
crimsundholbach: not bad, yourself?08:25
dholbachcool, i'm just waking up :)08:26
crimsunzakame: feel free to work on it :)08:26
tritiumNot bad.  You?  We're closing on our new house tomorrow.08:26
zakamedholbach: I wrote back to a DD for gpsd earlier, he sent me the right patch for getting gpsd build on all archs08:26
dholbachzakame: nice one :)08:26
dholbachcrimsun: "closing on" :)08:26
zakamecrimsun: cool! thanks :D08:26
zakamewhoa, I got hit by a blackout08:27
zakamebrb08:27
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dholbachtritium: "closing on"?08:29
tritiumdholbach: closing is when you officially sign all the papers, etc. to take legal ownership08:29
dholbachoh WOW!08:30
=== dholbach congratulates tritium
=== dholbach hugs tritium
tritiumThanks :)08:30
StevenKtritium: Congrats. My wife and I did that a few months back.08:32
StevenKtritium: Now you have the fun of moving house. :-/08:32
tritiumStevenK: thanks.  Yeah, and selling our current one ;)08:32
StevenKAlso fun.08:33
tritiumindeed08:33
StevenKMy wife and I moved from a rented house into own place, so it was doubly good.08:33
tritiumcongrats!08:33
StevenKThanks. :-)08:33
tritium:)08:34
=== StevenK powers up his new Alpha for the first time.
StevenKDamn it, drop to SRM!08:35
StevenKI command thee!08:35
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StevenK/dev/sda4 has gone too long without being checked, check forced.08:40
StevenK/dev/sda4: /lost+found not found.  CREATED.08:40
StevenKWhee.08:40
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lifelessfwiw the problem I had a few days back with the -dbg package was purely one of debhelper compat level08:43
lifelessStevenK: 'new' ?08:43
StevenKlifeless: New old Alpha.08:46
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kos_tomhi09:03
kos_tomjust wanted to tell you that I've packaged the latest version of GCompris (7.2) for Breezy. It's available at http://thomas.enix.org/pub/debian/packages/breezy/09:03
siretarthi09:08
siretartkos_tom: thanks for your effords09:08
siretartkos_tom: the thing is, we should rather work on getting the latest version of gcompris into dapper first, then we can try to backport that package into breezy09:09
kos_tomsiretart: ok.09:09
kos_tomsiretart: just FWIW, there's a patch inside my package for GCompris. Without it, the SQLite-related stuff doesn't work.09:10
siretartkos_tom: are you a gcompris developer or just an interested user?09:11
kos_tomi'm not a gcompris developer, but I work with the main gcompris developer, so I know him quite well09:12
siretartok09:12
kos_tomin fact, I packaged it for breezy, because a school needed it.09:13
siretartgcompris is a great and big package, and we definitly want it for edubuntu09:13
siretartI'm sure ogra will really appreciate it09:13
siretartI see that you used version number -209:14
siretartwe have a policy in ubuntu that we use version number -0ubuntu1 for the first new upstream version09:15
siretartso that a -1 version remains bigger, and we retain the possibility to sync from debian (or another source)09:15
kos_tomhum, ok I see.09:16
siretartthe next thing, I see that you patch ./configure to fix that sqlite issue09:17
kos_tomyep09:17
siretartdid you talk to upstream about this?09:17
kos_tomyep, I did09:17
siretartI'm not that 'happy' to patch autogenerated files09:17
kos_tomi'm not neither09:17
siretartbecause this are thing which tend to break the next upload09:18
kos_tombut as ./configure is shipped inside the orig tarball, I don't see any other way.09:18
kos_tom./configure are usually shipped because they are tightly coupled with the autoconf version.09:18
siretartwell, upstream could (and even more should) fix this issue in a new release09:18
kos_tom(I find it really really gory)09:18
kos_tomupstream will fix it in the new release, sure. But to have a working 7.2, I had to patch.09:18
siretartand the other possibility (what I'd suggest) would be to regenerate ./configure at build time09:19
siretartthis means build depending on automake/autoconf of course09:19
kos_tomthat's not the usual way of building the packages, AFAIK.09:19
kos_tomyep, and build depending with the correct versions09:19
siretartwell,09:20
siretartI see many packages which rerun autofoo at buildtime, and it generally works09:20
kos_tomok09:21
siretartbut I also see that many maintainers don't want to rely on this09:21
siretartso they rerun autofoo and store that diff into a dpatch09:21
siretartwhich bloats the diff.gz of course09:21
siretartso you basically have to choose your poison09:21
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StevenKHowever, Build-Depending on autofoo and running them at build time cuts the size of the diff to about 1Kb.09:22
siretartexcatly09:22
kos_tomsure09:22
siretarthi StevenK! :)09:22
=== StevenK waves.
kos_tomStevenK: ultimately, the upstream developers shouldn't have to release the generated files.09:23
siretartthats usually not that a big problem. It becomes a real one if the generated ./configure is broken09:24
siretartas in this case09:24
siretartthen the distributor has to regenerate it with fixed input files. the question here is WHEN to rerun that09:25
siretartsince at ubuntu we do sourceful uploads only, I'd rather tend to regen them on the buildds.09:26
crimsunautomake1.x libtool09:26
siretartkos_tom: would you mind uploading gcompris with the 2 issues I mentioned fixed to REVU?09:27
crimsunpatch configure.ac, then invoke autoreconf -f -i09:27
siretartkos_tom: this is easier for us to review your package and eventually upload it to dapper (which is a prequisite to get it into breezy-backports)09:28
kos_tomsiretart: ok, will see. Not tonight, but tomorrow.09:29
siretartkos_tom: you know how to do that?09:29
kos_tomI just found https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU, which appears to explain the stuff09:29
siretartexcatly09:29
siretartjust tell me your gnupg keyid, I'll add you in a sec09:30
StevenKtmpfs                267552.0T 16536128.0T    113.6M 100% /09:30
StevenKMuahahahahaha09:31
kos_tomsiretart: my complete fingerprint is 0BE1 4CF3 CEA4 AC9D CC6E 1624 F653 CB30 98D3 F7A709:31
siretartok, done, you may upload now09:32
=== Mithrandir considers configure, etc to be similar to shipping binaries in the source tarball and likes to have them regenerated.
kos_tomok, but I'm at my work, don't have my development stuff there.09:32
kos_tomand tonight, I'm organizing something for the local LUG (Ubuntu demonstrations !), so won't have time to upload.09:33
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kos_tomlucas: hi10:14
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Tonio_hi all10:15
zakamehi all, Tonio_ :D10:15
Tonio_:)10:16
lucashi kos_tom :)10:18
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siretarthuhu Tonio_10:25
Tonio_yop siretart10:30
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JohnnyMasthey slomo12:19
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Nafallohmm01:37
Nafallosistpoty should get in soon?01:37
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siretartmuhahaha: http://www.ibiblio.org/propaganda/GDM20E20.html01:50
siretartNafallo: I should have his phone number around here somewhere, if you need to contact him01:51
Nafallosiretart: mostly that linuxdcpp is fixed but malone refuses to add bugs against it via lpbugs.py :-/01:52
siretartNafallo: lpbugs.py just creates and signs an email01:52
siretartNafallo: did you check if the email arrives at launchpad?01:52
Nafallosiretart: yes, and it works for everything except linuxdcpp ;-)01:53
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NafalloI guess launchpad import stuff only when there is a binary :-P01:53
siretartNafallo: did you check if the source package is actually registered and known at launchpad?01:54
Nafallosiretart: nope.01:54
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Nafallohow to search for source?01:55
siretartlets see, how is the package called again?01:56
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Nafallolinuxdcpp01:58
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siretartNafallo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linuxdccp02:18
siretartthats the problem02:19
siretartyou need to ask someone in launchpad to add that sourcepackage to launchpad02:19
\shNafallo: ping kiko he did it for us hte last time02:19
Nafallok, thanx02:20
=== siretart waves to \sh
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\shok...going back to bed..cu later in the evening...somehow I have east coast times now02:20
siretart\sh: how are you? feeling better?02:20
\shsiretart: I wish I do02:21
siretart\sh: sleep well, gute besserung!02:21
zakameevening all :D02:21
\shsiretart: I just went out to buy some bottles of coke...wasn't good to do it02:21
siretarthey zakame02:21
\shbbl02:21
zakamegn8 \sh :D02:22
zakamehi siretart ! :)02:22
Tonio_re02:22
Tonio_I'm just packaging metamonitor02:22
Tonio_few bugs in the sources bug I've been able to patch and it works02:23
Tonio_anyway, I'm not hapy with the patch I've done, cause I'm sure there is a propper way to do it...02:23
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Tonio_is patching a Makefile.in a good way to do, or is there a clean way to regenerate another one valid (using automake or something) ?02:25
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siretartTonio_: is that a handcrafted Makefile.in (package using autoconf only) or is it created (e.g. by automake)?02:27
Tonio_the package is using autoconf to generate Makefiles02:28
Tonio_but all Makefiles.in have been gnrated with a very old version of automake02:28
Tonio_automake 1.6.302:28
Tonio_siretart: I'm sure using a more recent version would give a cleaner Makefile.in02:29
siretarthm. it really depends on the package.02:29
zakameTonio_: hm, I was faced with the same prob before (with gpsd), where a missing $(LIBM) in the Makefile.in made build-fails in non-i386 :(02:29
siretartTonio_: then this might be the best approach to fix the package02:29
Tonio_in fact the hack I've done works, but the method isn't clean to me.....02:29
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Tonio_siretart: so what to do ?02:30
Tonio_patching like I've done and tell upstream to use a more recent version ?02:30
Tonio_or make usage of automake via the rules file ?02:30
Tonio_zakame: and how did you proceed ?02:32
siretartTonio_: I'd do both02:32
zakameTonio_: what exactly is the change made to your Makefile.in?02:32
Tonio_zakame: here is an example02:32
Tonio_in the way it uses MOC :02:33
Tonio_configurebase.h: $(srcdir)/configurebase.ui02:33
Tonio_$(UIC) -o configurebase.h $(srcdir)/configurebase.ui02:33
Tonio_configurebase.moc: configurebase.h02:33
Tonio_$(MOC) configurebase.h -o configurebase.moc02:33
Tonio_that doesn't work, while it is supposed to...02:33
Tonio_but the result is configurebase.h file missing02:33
Tonio_so I changed "$(MOC) configurebase.h -o configurebase.moc" to "$(MOC) $(srcdir)/configurebase.h -o configurebase.moc"02:34
Tonio_as you can see, that's not a very clean way to proceed, but that works :)02:34
zakamehm, indeed... :(02:35
Tonio_best way would be to regenerate all makefiles.in within rules, but that sound like a kind of mess to perform :)02:35
zakamein my case with gpsd, all I really needed to do was to force LDFLAGS="$(LDFLAGS) -lm" in debian/rules ;)02:36
Tonio_yes, but my problem isn't a path problem02:36
zakameshort of a 156K dpatch :(02:36
Tonio_the fact is that I don't understand why the original code doesn't work...02:36
zakamewhen it should, gaah :(02:37
Tonio_and the strange thing is that it seems to read the makefile from the end to the begining02:37
Tonio_is that normal ?02:37
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Tonio_ I mean, several .h files are performed, but errors are ordered from the last .h file to the first....02:38
Tonio_dunno if that's normal.....02:39
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zakamedholbach: whoa, open MOTU! you rock! :D02:45
jsgotangcoopen Motu?02:45
dholbachzakame: i'm glad you like it02:46
zakamejsgotangco: jedi-padawan relations ;)02:46
jsgotangcoohhh02:46
zakamedholbach: yeah, as I'm having such a session right now at #u-ph :D02:46
jsgotangcozakame, you know very well i'm very much on the dark side02:47
jsgotangco*heavy breathing*02:47
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zakamejsgotangco: so, that's sith->?what? relationship :D02:47
jsgotangcoa sith lord -> sith apprentice relationship02:48
zakameoh right :))02:50
=== jsgotangco starts using dark side force on dholbach
dholbachyou want me to hack on the kernel or what?02:50
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Gloubiboulgahello02:55
zakamehi Gloubiboulga02:55
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GloubiboulgaI've just seen dholbach's message on the ubuntu-motu list02:58
GloubiboulgaI think it's a really good idea :)02:58
dholbachcould you all please follow up on the list on this?02:59
dholbachlike that we can plan it better02:59
Gloubiboulgadholbach, yes03:01
zakamesure dholbach :D03:01
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zakamecrimsun: hm, seems mftrace was already uploaded and built, despite PendingUpload, could I close the bug(s) then? :)03:24
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zakamehi slomo :D03:26
slomohi zakame :)03:26
jdong__I'm investigating a build failure under Hoary with mplayer...03:27
jdong__I think we're missing a build-dep03:27
jdong__(not that I expect it to work with a build dep ;) )03:27
jdong__stepping thru the build again to check03:28
slomojdong_: with the hoary package or the dapper one?03:29
jdong__sorry, too early in the morning :D03:29
jdong__I meant Dapper -> Breezy03:29
jdong__I believe it wasa a link error with an unknown lib03:30
jdong__around 20 min into the build on an A6403:30
slomojdong_: that would be at the first linking... hmm, upload me the buildlog somewhere, maybe i can give you a hint ;)03:30
jdong__slomo: I'm rebuilding it to get the error again at the moment :)03:30
jdong__and where am I logged in twice???03:31
jdong__grr03:31
jdong__brb03:31
jdong_stupid screen :)03:31
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jdong_/usr/bin/ld: cannot find -lmp4v203:32
jdong_libmp4v2-dev, I guess?03:32
=== jdong_ trying
slomoyes03:34
slomolibfaac-dev missed a depend on libmp4v2-dev in breezy03:34
jdong_would it be an acceptable idea to add a libmp4v2-dev dep from mplayer?03:35
Mithrandirdo you mean build-depend?03:35
zakameain't that in multiverse?03:35
jdong_add libmp4v2-dev as a build-dep on mplayer in Dapper03:35
ograzakame, as well as mplayer is ...03:36
slomojdong_: yes, i can do it with the next mplayer upload... but this will be earliest at the weekend. currently there's a small issue with ffmpeg in mplayer that i need to fix03:36
jdong_slomo: ok, that's fine03:36
zakameogra: oh, right, moving on... :)03:37
ogra:)03:37
Yagisanslomo - I tried to backport mplayer this weekend (with the fixed dep), and it FTBFS on amd64, would that be the ffmpeg issue you mention ?03:41
KyralMorning03:42
zakameheya Kyral03:43
siretartsmall issue with ffmpeg?!03:43
siretartI'd rather say it is a mess! :)03:44
Yagisansiretart: It's not possible to standardise on a ffmpeg and ffmpeg-dev package is it ?03:45
siretartYagisan: no03:45
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siretartYagisan: ffmpeg upstream is way to unstable, and changes both API and ABI too frequently :(03:46
Yagisansiretart: Words can't express how much that annoys me as a user03:46
siretartYagisan: jo03:46
jdong_p7zip, -O2 CFLAGS bring slightly better performance (5% increase)...03:47
jdong_any reason we don't use it?03:47
Yagisansiretart: ?03:47
siretartYagisan: I agree with you03:47
siretartjdong_: sounds reasonable. I'd suggest filing a malone bug about this. perhaps you can attach a patch, too03:48
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jdong_ok03:48
Yagisansiretart: ok, google couldn't translate jo. It's frustrating when you are encoding/decoding and different apps don't work together, because ffmpeg changed :(03:49
ograjdong_, the simple fact that e have to rebuild the world, that it requires a lot of testing and that we divert even more from debian with it i guess03:49
jdong_siretart: nvm, google revealed SFX issues on some archs with -O203:49
jdong_idn if the archs are relevant to us though03:50
AmaranthSFX?03:50
Amaranthwe have lots of arches03:50
jdong_self extracting 7zips03:50
jdong_Amaranth: Cygwin?03:50
ograin any case it would be far to intrusive for dapper ...03:50
Amaranthoh, only windows does those, i thought03:50
jdong_Amaranth: yeah, cygwin is a POSIX-like supported arch with p7zip03:50
jdong_there's been a LOT of 7z hype over @ the forums recently03:51
Amaranthyeah03:51
ograjdong_, thst something to look at for dapper+1 at earliest date ...03:51
slomoYagisan: no... do you have a buildlog? the issue with ffmpeg in mplayer is a decoding problem with h264 (completly distorted picture)03:51
Amaranthif the language packs are compressed with LZMA compression we can fit more on the CD03:51
jdong_ogra: I understand :)03:52
ograwe simply couldnt bear any undiscovered bugs in the packaging system for a 5year support release03:52
Yagisanslomo: no, but I can chuck it into the breezy pbuilder again for you03:52
jdong_ogra: just that a lot of people want to use 7z more for their personal purposes03:52
Yagisanslomo: I can't do dapper, as I'm waiting for a mirror sync03:52
slomoYagisan: maybe the libmp4v2 problem? but please do it :)03:52
Yagisanslomo: I'll dcc it to you when done03:53
ograjdong_, thats fine, if its free, make a package ... a good MOTU task ;)03:53
Yagisanjdong_: isn't 7z mainly used for warez ?03:53
ograit could even see some more widespread testing if there would be a package in universe03:53
jdong_Yagisan: umm, it's a very powerful compression format03:54
jdong_ogra: it's already in universe; p7zip03:54
jdong_ogra: dfsg approved Freeness :)03:54
ograoh, didnt know that03:54
jdong_ogra: main downside is RAM usage and slowness03:55
jdong_ogra: to achieve its 20% improvement over bzip2 on larger archives, it at times takes 100MB+ to compress/decompress03:55
Amaranth7z is just a wrapper format03:55
jdong_LZMA compression03:55
Amaranththe thing everyone is excited about is LZMA compression03:55
Amaranthyeah03:55
Amaranthi thought that had patent issues03:56
HieronymusAmaranth: haven't they expired?03:56
Amarantheveryone says 7z when they mean LZMA because it's the most popular implementation03:56
Yagisanjdong_: I don't doubt it powerful, but I thought I knew where I saw .7z packages before.03:56
Yagisanslomo: when did mplayer 2:0.99+1.0pre7try2+cvs20051205-0ubuntu7 get uploaded ?03:57
slomoYagisan: some time ago ;) maybe 2 weeks ago03:57
jdong_the patents expired; p7zip is pure GPL right now03:57
jdong_the lzma SDK is LGPL or more free03:58
jdong_(I believe the p7zip author has supernatural licensing rights to the SDK?)03:58
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Yagisanslomo: hmm, wasn't there on sunday/monday when my build failed. I'll download and see if I can reproduce the error03:58
jdong_is \sh around?04:02
jdong_I plan on bringing back my beta testing repository (breezy-backports-staging) for Backports beta testers...04:03
jdong_with the usual "100% beta breaks your system" warnings and such04:03
jdong_there are several Backports enthusiasts that have expressed interest in helping me beta test04:03
jdong_just would like to know if anyone'd object to that04:04
jdong_packages will be built in clean chroots, according to Backports policies and all04:04
jdong_no source changes, etc04:04
Yagisanjdong_: you don't use pbuilder for backports ?04:07
slomoYagisan: thanks04:12
Yagisanslomo: your welcome04:12
jdong_Yagisan: for Backports purposes, I still find it faster (for me) to use a chroot instead04:12
jdong_Yagisan: I keep my chroots very clean, with vmwares for testing04:12
slomojdong_: why? apt-get source foo && pbuilder build foo.dsc ;)04:13
Yagisanjdong_: I scripted up my pbuilder scripts, that's how I caught the mplayer build-dep missing error04:13
jdong_jdong_: ubp-build.py has experimental version sed support now :)04:13
jdong_I use pbuilder at times04:13
=== Yagisan loves his RAID5 disk subsystem :)
slomoYagisan: no idea about this failure... it's not logical imho ;) we link to libmpcdec but it doesn't find the symbols in libmpdec...04:14
Yagisanslomo: excellent, I'll try in a dapper pbuilder, when I stop getting md5sum errors from the mirrors04:15
Yagisanslomo: See if I get the same illogical error :)04:15
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=== jdong_ goes back to studying for test
jdong_yay for dead cats04:17
\shbeta testing backports repository>04:18
\sh?04:18
\shguys i'm sleeping and it pinged here04:18
jdong_\sh: sorry to disturb you... I'm bringing back breezy-backports-staging on mirrormax for Backports beta testers04:19
jdong_they know well not to disturb devs about problems resulting from using it04:20
jdong_wondering if you're ok with it04:20
\shjdong_: how are you managing this with user and passwort authentication04:20
jdong_\sh: I've not planned to use authentication...04:20
jdong_\sh: I don't think average users would be stumbling on staging left and right :)04:20
\shso how are you managing it, that those people are not spamming the whole world with "damn, I broke my ubuntu with backports again"?04:20
jdong_tell them not to?04:21
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\shjdong_: it failed the first time..do you think you will succeed the second time?04:21
jdong_\sh: the first time, we had a "stable" Backports repo on there for general use04:21
jdong_that isn't happening this time04:22
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jdong_this time, it's a BETA TESTING repo ONLY, and it's clearly going to be labeled as such04:22
jdong_In addition, I will not be signing the repository, adding another CLEAR WARNING before any of these packages are installed04:23
Yagisanjdong_: Uh, you do know on the forums, there was a guide about how to disable the non-signed message04:23
jdong_Yagisan: yes, and it was critized enough for it04:24
\shjdong_: well..I'm not ok with it...but do whatever you like...if the support requests are increasing because of this beta staging backports area...well I think we will have the same discussion again as last time..which I don't want...and others either04:24
jdong_\sh: I don't think that'll happen this time04:25
\shjdong_: you don't know the users :)04:25
jdong_but if any support requests like that ever pop up, contact me04:25
Yagisanjdong_: Just wanted to point out that techincal solutions don't always work on social problems04:25
jdong_Yagisan: yeah, I experienced that before with moving repository URL's04:25
\shanyways going back to sleep...04:26
\shlaters04:26
siretart\sh: sleep well04:26
jdong_see ya04:27
Yagisanjdong_: Honestly, I think a a backports beta is better as a "closed" beta, without the general users accessing it04:27
siretartjdong_: I'm not sure if it is worth the efford04:27
siretartjdong_: I think how to create a breezy pbuilder is quite well documented on the wiki. and the sources are available in our archive04:28
Yagisanjdong_: personally, I backport what I need with pbuilder04:28
siretartjdong_: what I've been thinking todo was to write a small wrapper script, which fetches the source package from dapper and builds it with the local breezy pbuilder, so that building the packages would be a oneliner, even for backporting beta testers04:28
jdong_siretart: there were about 2-3 packages that staging testers caught problems with04:29
jdong_one caught bug is worth the effort for me04:29
jdong_and more testers = better coverage04:29
jdong_and if I have 10 beta testers, having them all do pbuilder packages themselves doesn't make much sense to me04:30
siretartjdong_: err, what kind of problems?04:30
jdong_siretart: regressions in program functionality04:31
jdong_siretart: sometimes obscure interactions with other Universe packages04:31
siretartjdong_: err, and how do you circumvent them?04:31
jdong_siretart: I'd know about them and not let the packages into the stable repository?04:32
jdong_rather than figuring it out the hard and painful way where ordinary users would get affected04:32
Yagisanjdong_: that's the nature of backporting from an unstable and changing development repository04:32
jdong_Yagisan: but that's no excuse not to try to avoid it04:32
Yagisanjdong_: no, that is why the backporter needs to test what they backport04:33
siretartjdong_: I was thinking about a wrapper skript 'ub-backport-build <sourcepackage>', which would fetch the source from dapper and builds it in the local pbuilder04:33
siretartjdong_: if you are interested, we could put that script into dapper and backport it officially04:33
jdong_siretart: that'd be very cool04:34
siretartjdong_: that way it would be most easy for backport testers to fetch and build the packages themselves04:34
jdong_Yagisan: these are packages that I test but missed the bugs04:34
jdong_Yagisan: I spend A LOT OF TIME testing04:34
Yagisansiretart: I have some scripts that may be able to be modifed for that purpose04:34
siretartYagisan: that would be cool. are they publically available?04:35
Yagisansiretart: not yet, but I can send them to you04:35
siretartYagisan: just send it to ubuntu-backports@lists.ubuntu.com (and perhaps CC: ubuntu-motu@)04:36
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siretartso that jdong can see that it as well ;)04:36
jdong_thanks guys, that'll be sweet :)04:36
Yagisansiretart: I'm not on that list, it won't get through04:36
YagisanI'll need to subscribe today04:37
jdong_I appreciate your help04:37
YagisanI'll post it when I get up, but it works for backports, and non-backports04:37
Yagisandepends on a working pbuilder though04:37
jdong_Yagisan: that's the thing... you need to automate that, too04:38
siretartYagisan: perhaps we could provide a working pbuilder example config04:38
jdong_it needs to ship being able to backport out-of-the-APT04:38
=== Yagisan thinks, he may as well make it into a deb and send it to revu
siretartit really isn't that hard to create a pbuilder04:39
siretartjdong_: no, it just needs a custom apt config, not depending on the system apt04:39
jdong_siretart: but it's a deterrent to beta testers04:39
siretartjdong_: I've done this for several small projects, its no problem04:39
YagisanOK, after work today, I'll fix up the script, turn it into a package, and sent it to both lists, and revu, and stick it in my repo04:40
jdong_thanks04:42
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Yagisanjdong_: no worries, it would be nice to have a package that isn't rejected because of licensing :)04:43
lucasI just uploaded a new version of motutools to REVU. if somebody has some time to review it : http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=116004:43
YagisanGoodnight all (3am here)04:48
siretartlucas: advocated04:48
siretartgn8 Yagisan04:48
zakamegn8 Yagisan :D04:48
Yagisanbtw slomo, mplayer built fine in the dapper pbuilder on amd6404:49
Yagisannight04:49
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lucassiretart: thanks :-)04:50
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zakamewow we're just 102 packages unassigned for merge :)04:53
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jsgotangcotime for the UTOM team to change that04:55
jsgotangco:D04:55
JohnnyMastguys i found a theme song for MOTU04:57
JohnnyMasthttp://www.rosiello.net/downloads/13 - Princes of the Universe.ogg04:58
JohnnyMastit rocks !04:58
zakameJohnnyMast: I've that playing NOW :D04:58
JohnnyMastits would fit04:58
JohnnyMastfit ubuntu MOTU like a successfull package on pbuilder04:59
jsgotangcogood night04:59
lucaszakame: 102 packages unassigned for merge doesn't mean we are lagging behind debian for only 102 packages04:59
lucasa lot of merges are waiting for reviews & uploads04:59
zakamelucas: yeah; still, that's 102 packages unassigned ;)05:01
JohnnyMastonly 10205:01
JohnnyMasti have seen a lot more05:01
JohnnyMastguys i have a strange pbuilder error05:01
zakamewe have 165 accepted, and 488 done05:02
lucashttp://ox.blop.info/bazaar/versionslist.html <= comparison of debian sid vs ubuntu dapper pkg versions05:03
zakamelucas: so we're more or less half-done for merging :) I'm looking forward for what's next after that ;)05:03
zakamerocking!05:05
zakamegood night all :D05:06
JohnnyMastguys05:06
JohnnyMastcould you all look into this ?05:07
JohnnyMasthttp://pastebin.com/46381905:07
zakamesure05:07
JohnnyMast have python-glade2 in my deps05:07
zakamehave you checked your ./configure call?05:08
JohnnyMastwith python ?05:08
JohnnyMastthere is none05:08
zakamein debian/rules?05:08
zakamecan you paste that as well?05:09
JohnnyMastmy rule file ? sure but i blame control05:09
JohnnyMastor pbuilder05:09
JohnnyMastsince it also cant read my dapper cd05:09
zakamewah05:09
JohnnyMasthttp://pastebin.com/46382705:10
JohnnyMastthats the rule file05:10
JohnnyMast*rules05:10
zakamegah, cdbs ...05:11
JohnnyMastyep05:11
zakamei see why you blame the control file then ;)05:12
JohnnyMastyou want to see it ?05:12
zakamego :D05:13
JohnnyMastok05:13
JohnnyMasthttp://pastebin.com/46383005:14
HieronymusJohnnyMast: You don't have permission to access /downloads/13 - Princes of the Universe.ogg on this server.05:15
zakamehuh? why the B-D _and_ B-D-I on the same python-glade2 pkg?05:15
zakamelucas: I'm looking at your ruby merges ;)05:15
JohnnyMastHieronymus let me check05:17
zakameJohnnyMast: also, 'tis seems you didn't explicitly set which python version to use05:17
JohnnyMastlol i C05:17
zakameit should prolly be python2.4-dev05:17
JohnnyMastwell it doesnt depend on a version05:17
JohnnyMasti checked already05:17
zakamehm but the binary will be, even if its arch: all05:19
JohnnyMastHieronymus fixed05:19
JohnnyMastit only depends on >=2.205:19
zakameanyhow I'll look at this tomorrow, 'tis 12:19 am here in .ph and rainy even :(05:19
JohnnyMastwell thats all debian/debian a like os`es there days05:20
zakamegood night :D05:20
JohnnyMastHieronymus you you like it05:24
JohnnyMast??05:24
HieronymusJohnnyMast: no05:26
JohnnyMasti do :) its ideal for motu05:26
siretartslomo: I think I have managed to build a transcode-1.0.2 with the ffmpeg we currently have in dapper. It seems to build on amd64, will try it on x86, too05:29
siretartand yes, it is linked statically to our lovely ffmpeg05:29
slomosiretart: and again 1 GB big? ;)05:31
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siretart-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 15097674 Dez 14 17:31 result/transcode_1.0.2-0.0ubuntu1_amd64.deb05:31
siretart-rw-r--r-- 1 root root   291360 Dez 14 17:31 result/transcode-doc_1.0.2-0.0ubuntu1_all.deb05:31
siretartslomo: 15mb.05:32
slomoand 40 mb uncompressed... same as before05:32
slomook...05:32
siretartslomo: better than not having transcode at all05:32
JohnnyMastcould you start a build on revu for me ? i think my own pbuilder is broken and i need somethng to check05:32
slomosiretart: yes05:32
JohnnyMastthat was asked to siretart05:33
siretartslomo: to change this, we would have to make ffmpeg provide dynamic libs. perhaps we could make ffmpeg provide a dynamic 'libavcodec-ubuntu.so', and hope that we won't change ffmpeg in dapper again05:33
siretartJohnnyMast: which package?05:33
JohnnyMasthold on im uploading it now then ile pass you the revu link05:34
siretartok05:34
JohnnyMastits a strange thing 1) pbuilder cant read my dapper cd 2) it wasnt a build one heck of a lot of packages05:35
JohnnyMastsiretart here it  is http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=116105:36
slomosiretart: or ship libavcodec-transcode.so with transcode05:36
siretartslomo: this would mean code duplication05:42
siretartslomo: I don't want to ship the source to ffmpeg in transcodes diff.gz05:43
slomook05:44
siretartslomo: lets rather declare the one ffmpeg we currently have as the semi-official and link dynamically to that05:44
siretartslomo: but if we do that, we should wait until after UVF, so that we avoid unecessary rebuilds05:44
JohnnyMastsiretart did you start the build ?05:45
JohnnyMastthanks05:47
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JohnnyMastsiretart on my pbuilder it says python-glade2 is missing05:47
siretartJohnnyMast: done05:48
siretartJohnnyMast: seems to ftbfs, but because of different reason05:48
JohnnyMastwhats ftbfs ?05:48
Amaranthfail to build from source05:49
JohnnyMasti dont see it failing05:50
siretartJohnnyMast: http://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512141135/ttb_0.9.4-0ubuntu1.buildlog05:50
JohnnyMastyes thats what i get05:51
siretartfor some reason, your package does not seem to detect the system python-glade2 package05:51
JohnnyMastand the missing package is in the controle file05:51
JohnnyMastas depend05:51
JohnnyMastsiretart do you have any idea`s about it ?05:52
siretartJohnnyMast: no, sorry05:53
JohnnyMastsiretart this was exactly why i tought that my builder was broken because the package is in the deps and also installed05:54
Gloubiboulgasudo apt-get install flex05:54
Gloubiboulgasorry05:54
Gloubiboulga:/05:54
siretartJohnnyMast: no, your pbuilder seems to be fine05:56
JohnnyMastyeah05:56
JohnnyMastmaybe its my debian/ dir somewhere05:56
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siretartslomo: ok, it built on amd64 and on x8606:05
siretartslomo: I think I'll upload it to the archive, ok?06:05
slomofine with me :)06:05
siretartuploading now06:08
siretartok im off for today06:09
siretartcu folks!06:09
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seth_kCan I get another advocater for http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1070 kmobiletools? Riddell has reviewed and advocated :)06:39
Riddellseth_k: "another reviewer" best not to presume too much :)06:41
seth_khaha well said ;)06:42
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cyberixslomo: What is/was the problem with gnunet-gtk?07:04
cyberixslomo: It still doesn't work in sid?07:05
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dholbachcan somebody proof-read/enhance/fix/add-bling-factor to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Draft?07:25
dholbachwe really need it to fix up universe bugs07:25
dholbachand the desktop team and the kubuntu team as well :)07:25
slomocyberix: no idea, i didn't have any luck to talk with elmo about it... but don't worry, i don't forget it :)07:27
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dholbachanyone?07:36
LaserJockhi dholbach07:37
dholbachRiddell just added a kubuntu paragraph, does anybody care enough to write a motu/universe one?07:37
dholbachor shall we leave it out?07:37
LaserJockdholbach: looks, cool07:38
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LaserJockalthough I will be on the road on the 21st07:39
dholbacha lot of people will, i guess07:39
dholbachbut we should have those bug days regularly07:39
dholbachthat's, why i decided to drive it anyways07:40
LaserJockbtw, I just read your Open MOTU Day email, do you have an idea of when that would be?07:40
dholbachi think we should start planning it... adding ideas around it, so we can really make it big07:41
dholbachthat's why i didn't ask for a date yet :)07:41
dholbachsurely next year07:41
LaserJockI think it is a great idea, anything I can do?07:41
dholbachsuggest random cool stuff on the mailing list07:42
dholbach:)07:42
LaserJockmaybe I can get a rough draft of the Ubuntu Packaging Guide done by then07:42
dholbachsounds cool07:42
dholbachthat'd be something we could refer people to07:42
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JohnnyMastdholbach im writing a reply mail to urs07:45
dholbachurs?07:46
JohnnyMastyou on the mailing list07:48
dholbachah cool07:48
JohnnyMastit has been send07:48
dholbachbut just to me ;)07:48
JohnnyMast:|07:49
JohnnyMastlet me forward it to the mailing07:49
LaserJockJohnnyMast: have you worked on w.u.c/Merging lately?07:49
JohnnyMastno only revu and bug fixes07:50
JohnnyMastthe others where fixed for me07:50
JohnnyMastbut are still asigned07:50
LaserJockk, I guess I should finish that up07:50
JohnnyMastso LaserJock whats the story ? are you motu already ?07:51
LaserJockno07:51
JohnnyMastgetting there ?07:51
LaserJockonly a wannabe ;-)07:51
LaserJocknot sure07:51
JohnnyMastbut ur wise and old07:51
LaserJockI just became an Ubuntu member at the last CC Meeting07:52
LaserJockJohnnyMast: well, thanks but I don't know if I have the technological knowledge to be a MOTU yet07:52
LaserJockthere is still a lot for me to learn07:52
LaserJockI just try to help where I can07:52
JohnnyMastwell LaserJock keep it up !07:52
LaserJockI'll try, thanks for the encouragement07:53
JohnnyMast:)07:53
JohnnyMastbtw did you do anything on the mergin text ?07:53
LaserJocknot since the 7th07:53
JohnnyMastok07:54
JohnnyMastdholbach, what did you think of my idea ?07:54
LaserJockI better finish up my xcdroast tutorial, it is kinda bad to leave it hanging there07:54
JohnnyMastyes well i liked it with the attachments07:54
JohnnyMast*ike07:55
dholbachJohnnyMast: in general it's a good idea to have people willing to take care of motu wannabes, it's just a question of how to organize that07:55
JohnnyMast*like07:55
dholbachJohnnyMast: i think the motu open day, the motu school and the mailing list are a good start07:55
dholbachJohnnyMast: what do you think?07:55
JohnnyMastbut you could put the (example MOTOpersonal ppl life in ubuntu-school07:56
JohnnyMastso then ppl have a root to join from07:56
JohnnyMastthat fixes the organisation07:56
JohnnyMastthe teachers are in school :)07:56
JohnnyMastso that the school room doesnt have only idlers07:57
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JohnnyMastit will be more active with once in a while an extra lecture07:57
dholbachyou could work on the idea a bit and present in tomorrow's motu meeting07:57
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JohnnyMastis that here ?07:57
dholbach#ubuntu-meeting07:58
dholbachshould be on fridge.ubuntu.com/event07:58
JohnnyMastwhat time ?07:58
JohnnyMastits some where in my email inbox07:58
JohnnyMastile work out an document07:58
JohnnyMastor better ile create a presentation in dia07:59
eruin\s I think you need new blogging software ;p08:00
JohnnyMastim working on edge08:00
JohnnyMastto wrap it in deb08:00
JohnnyMastwell not yet im waiting for an upstream stable08:00
JohnnyMastdholbach feeel like doing a revieuw ?08:01
dholbachtell me the url and i'll look at it later08:02
JohnnyMastok08:02
JohnnyMasthold on to something08:02
JohnnyMasthttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=116208:03
dholbachcool, have it in the browser08:03
dholbachwill poke at it later08:03
JohnnyMastthanks08:03
JohnnyMastwhats the motu school channel name again ?08:04
dholbachanybody wants to add something to http://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Draft, something universe-wise?08:04
LaserJockJohnnyMast: #ubuntu-motu-school ?08:05
JohnnyMastthumbs up @ LaserJock thanks thats what ineeded08:05
LaserJockdholbach: maybe we should say something about how many universe bugs there are08:05
ajmitchmorning all08:07
dholbachyeah, something about the motu team, having fun on the bug day as well08:07
dholbachsomething about our bug page on the wiki, whatever :)08:07
ajmitchwhat's new?08:08
dholbachUbuntuBugDay/Draft!08:09
dholbachowohoo08:09
=== ajmitch will be gone then :)
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HieronymusJohnnyMast: You might want to indent the license info in debian/copyright with two spaces, so that it's clear where it begins and ends08:13
JohnnyMastwhat line do you mean ?08:14
HieronymusJohnnyMast: in debian/copyright08:14
HieronymusI mean the license08:14
Hieronymushttp://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/12/msg00007.html08:14
JohnnyMastoh on line 208:15
JohnnyMast\..\08:15
JohnnyMast|..|08:15
Hieronymus?08:16
Hieronymusno08:16
Treenaksthe | things indicate 'quoted text'08:16
TreenaksJohnnyMast: have a look around in /usr/share/doc/*/copyright for examples08:16
TreenaksJohnnyMast: then read this.08:16
TreenaksJohnnyMast: then be enlightened08:16
dholbach/usr/share/debhelper/dh_make/licenses/gpl08:17
dholbachis a nice template08:17
Treenaksdholbach: that too :)08:17
dholbachguys, just use dh_make :)08:17
Treenaksdholbach: dholbach_make08:17
dholbachdh_make -b -c gpl08:17
dholbachcd bla*; rm *.ex *.EX dirs docs README.Debian08:18
dholbachand you can start working :)08:18
slomoor better create your own template for "standard" packages which just needs to be copied around ;)08:18
=== Treenaks pets dh-make-perl
HieronymusJohnnyMast: and replace "Read /usr/share/common-licenses/GPL"08:19
JohnnyMastok08:19
JohnnyMastyes i noticed how they use that linein the template08:19
Hieronymusmake it something on Debian systems08:19
JohnnyMast??08:20
HieronymusOn Debian systems, ....08:21
ajmitchdholbach: when do you think you'll have this 'open day'?08:21
dholbachnext year08:22
ajmitchok08:22
dholbachwe need to plan it, have cool ideas for it08:22
dholbachmake it big08:22
slomoajmitch: make in debian seems to be repaired :)08:22
dholbachinvite everybody to the party :)08:22
ajmitchslomo: yes, I saw manoj had fixed it08:23
ajmitchdholbach: make sure it doesn't clash with anything else ;)08:23
HieronymusJohnnyMast: Can you please use Homepage in the description in debian/control instead of HOMEPAGE?08:23
ajmitchjan 23rd-28th are out08:24
ajmitchI'll be fanboying jdub & sabdfl08:24
ajmitch(LCA)08:24
slomoajmitch: ok, fine :)08:24
JohnnyMasti learned the home page from dholbach with kiwi08:24
JohnnyMastbut okey good advise08:24
ajmitchlike  Homepage: http://www.async.com.br/projects/kiwi/ ?08:25
Hieronymusajmitch: yeah. Or are you supposed to shout about homepages?08:25
ajmitchno, I wouldn't SHOUT08:25
=== dholbach would
dholbachabout good ones ;)08:25
ajmitchI don't even have homepage urls in my descriptions08:25
JohnnyMasthttp://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/kiwi-0512011200/kiwi-1.9.2/debian/control08:26
JohnnyMastbut i see now what i did wrong08:26
dholbachi think it's fancy to have it08:26
HieronymusJohnnyMast: and you seem to have changed the LICENSE file of the original, but these don't get copied anyway, and it might be illegal/not legally safe to change it08:28
JohnnyMastHieronymus that was because of a litnian warning08:29
JohnnyMastbut i will change that back + fix the control file and copyright file08:29
JohnnyMastafter i finish my MOTU openday article that im gonna post as ref for the meeting tomorrow08:30
HieronymusJohnnyMast: you'd do better to contact upstream about that if lintian gave an error08:30
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JohnnyMastHieronymus the whole open source world should be notified about it08:31
JohnnyMastbecause did you know the address of the foundation changed ?08:32
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HieronymusJohnnyMast: no08:33
JohnnyMastthats what i mean08:33
HieronymusJohnnyMast: but changing it in the LICENSE file is pointless and probably illegal08:34
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JohnnyMastwell Hieronymus dont wurry m going to change it back08:38
JohnnyMastmind enuming the points of atention ?08:38
HieronymusJohnnyMast: ehm, repeat that?08:39
JohnnyMastthe litle points you talked about08:39
=== Kyral yawns
ajmitchmorning Kyral08:39
HieronymusJohnnyMast: okay. 1: don't change LICENSE, as it's pointless and probably illegal08:39
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Hieronymus2: in debian/control, change HOMEPAGE to Homepage08:40
Hieronymus3: fix debian/copyright08:40
Kyralajmitch: Actually I just got done coding too much PHP ;p;08:40
JohnnyMastHieronymus thanks for that08:41
KyralOh anyone know whats on the MOTUSchool docket for this weekend?08:41
JohnnyMastim writing about MOTU school now08:42
HieronymusJohnnyMast: oh, and is PKG-INFO actually going to be installed? (I'm not really sure what it is/does)08:42
dholbachi added a quick line to the bug day announce :-/08:42
KyralI mean what the lesson is08:42
JohnnyMastHieronymus nope its not going to be installed08:42
HieronymusJohnnyMast: then don't change it, as that's pointless08:42
JohnnyMastits part of the source package08:43
LaserJockdholbach: good08:43
JohnnyMastits an info file08:43
JohnnyMastit cant display wrong info08:43
KyralHost 'NebulaPeace', running Linux 2.6.15-6-386 - Cpu0: Intel 2193 MHz; Up: 1:42; Users: 2; Load: 0.06; Free: [Mem: 25/243 Mio]  [Swap: 714/714 Mio]  [/: 22758/27465 Mio] ; Vpenis: 26 cm;08:43
KyralHostname: NebulaPeace - OS: Linux 2.6.15-6-386/i686 - CPU: Intel(R) Celeron(R) (2193.155 MHz) - Processes: 43 - Uptime: 1h 42m - Load Average: 0.06 - Memory Usage: 69.20MB/242.70MB (28.51%) - Disk Usage: 3.23GB/26.94GB (12.00%)08:43
Kyraloops wrong chan08:43
Kyralsoryr guys08:43
KyralI meant to fire it into the Forums channel08:44
raphinkRiddell: I modified kubuntu-grub-splashimages08:45
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Riddellraphink: how so?08:46
raphinkthe Architecture stuff08:46
raphinkI used the grub entry in control08:47
raphinkI mean the Architecure field from the grub package08:47
Riddellraphink: yeah, I approved it :)08:47
Riddellraphink: although actually I need to reboot to make sure it really works08:47
raphinkRiddell: I get lintian warning doing so though08:47
Riddellbah, nobody listens to lintian08:47
raphinkoki08:47
raphink;)08:47
slomoraphink: which warning?08:47
raphinkseveral people tested it already ;)08:48
Kyralhmm, which dir does debian/postinst work in while its being run?08:48
raphinkslomo: architectures unknown08:48
raphinkslomo: because in grub there's darwin-, hurd-, etc. archs08:48
raphinkso I kept them08:48
slomoraphink: oh ok... ignore it then :)08:48
RiddellI was a bit surprised to see openbsd in there08:48
raphinkno reason why my package shouldn't work on darwin-i386 or hurd-i38608:48
raphinkI did slomo :)08:49
slomobut what about architecture all?08:49
raphinkRiddell: well there's a debian openbsd I believe... even kfreebsd08:49
raphinkI've seen a guy use Debian Kfreebsd as his main distro08:49
raphinkslomo: no, PPC don't use grub08:49
raphinkit's only i386 and amd08:49
slomoraphink: so it's not installable because there is no grub for ppc... problem solved ;)08:50
raphinks/amd/amd64/08:50
raphinkslomo: Riddell thought I shouldn't use all08:50
raphinkI guess because the machine would generate a package for ppc08:50
raphinkso the package would be there as _all08:50
raphinkbut not installable08:50
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raphinkthere would be a dead dependency08:50
raphinkand I think he wants to avoid that ;)08:50
=== jdong puts on party hat :)
slomook, accepted :)08:51
raphinkooh nice party hat jdong :)08:51
jdongwhile blindly ignoring the financial side of the situation :)08:51
jdongjust got my acceptance letter from MIT08:51
raphinkoh great :)08:52
Kyrallol08:52
slomocongrats jdong :)08:52
Kyralnice knowing you JDong08:52
\shjdong: are you assembling the 100$ laptops for mako?08:52
jdong\sh: that'd be cool to do :)08:52
jdongstill have not made up my mind yet where I want to go....08:52
raphinkyep :)08:52
KyralFree laptops for the Ubuntu members :D08:52
jdongLOL08:52
jdongthat'd be nice08:52
raphinkthat'd be really cool :)08:53
raphinkyeah :)08:53
jdongnow, need to find money.....08:53
\shjdong: quanter is doing that :)08:53
raphinkfree $100 laptops with ubuntu on them :)08:53
slomoi don't need a second one... better give me a mac mini ;)08:53
=== jdong checks sofa
raphinkLOOOOL08:53
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raphinkslomo: if you have a laptop you don't use, think of me ... :s08:53
=== raphink was the only dev with no laptop at last conference /me attended
KyralI could use a laptop for test things08:54
KyralI mean another one lol08:54
KyralI'm using a 3 year old Inspirion 1100 right now as a glorified PDA :D08:54
raphinkhehe08:55
Kyralwhich is what I am on right now actually08:55
Kyralarmed with my Ethernet cable, Wifi-Detector, and a bunch of extendable cables, I will never have use a Windows Machine AGAIN! Mwahahaha!08:56
jdonglol08:56
LaserJockso a PDA with IRC08:56
Kyraland a 30 GB HD...08:56
Kyral2.2 Ghz Celly08:56
jdonghey, I'd love a PDA with IRC...... free.....08:56
jdongif Bram Cohen ever figures out how to torrent hardware... I think I'll waive my rights to a jury trial to use his software :)08:57
KyralIt doesn't outperform my desktop by any stretch, but with Flux on it, it moves :D08:57
Kyralexcept in boot time08:57
Kyralthis puppy boots in 14 seconds flat08:57
jdongKyral: I remember my ultra-moded Gentoo08:58
raphinkRiddell: I'm using cdbs for knmap. SHouldn't it generate the .pot file automatically?08:58
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jdonggood times....08:58
Kyraljdong: I just used sysv-init-perl (or something like that) and ripped out all the bootservices I didn't need08:59
JohnnyMastMOTU day proposal !! www.rosiello.net/ubuntu/08:59
jdongKyral: I just had an overglorified initrd setup :)08:59
Kyrallol09:00
raphinkRiddell: you there?09:00
Kyralbut you have to admit, dropping it down from 35 secs to 14 is damn nice :D09:00
jdongKyral: yeah, especially on a laptop09:01
Kyralmy desktop actually takes longer...09:01
jdongI still find Hoary more suitable for getting speed on low-ends09:01
Kyralbut then again its checking a lot more09:01
raphinkJohnnyMast: by teachers, you mean lecturers or mentors ?09:01
KyralDapper + Fluxbox09:01
dholbachJohnnyMast: could we have that on the wiki?09:01
jdongKyral: LOL09:01
dholbachJohnnyMast: reviewed your package09:01
JohnnyMastdholbach lecture ppl like what ajmich did09:02
KyralFluxbox I love :D09:02
JohnnyMastand just mentor like teachers09:02
KyralI dumped XFCE in favor for it on my Desktop09:02
JohnnyMastdholbach what do you think ?09:03
Riddellraphink: hi09:03
=== Kyral is reminded to bug MOTUs to review EasyChem ;P
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Riddellraphink: yes, but you need the patch09:03
raphinkRiddell: hmm hi ... we've been talking a few minutes ago ...09:03
LaserJockKyral: dapper+openbox would be better >:)09:03
raphinkRiddell: why do I need the patch?09:03
Riddellraphink: sorry, my computer spontaniously rebooted :)09:03
dholbachJohnnyMast: the problem is, that we need people who do it09:04
raphinkoooh I need to patch cdbs ?09:04
Riddellraphink: to set $kdepotpath correctly in admin/cvs.sh09:04
Riddellraphink: no, patch admin/cvs.sh09:04
raphinkhmm09:04
JohnnyMastdholbach create a new team09:04
raphinkhmm ok09:04
raphinkso I just add the patch to patches/ in debian/ and that should do it, no?09:04
JohnnyMasti would like to help but im not @ubuntu.com09:04
dholbachJohnnyMast: the people are the problem, not the team :)09:04
JohnnyMastno its not09:04
JohnnyMastat least not to beginners09:05
JohnnyMastbecause laser could drive those crazy with what he knows09:05
JohnnyMastalso raphink is a good hand09:05
dholbachwe should discuss it and we'd see, what the team says09:05
JohnnyMastKyral as well09:05
JohnnyMastyes its just basic talk not about "how to review" because thats for the MOTU`s there selfs09:06
JohnnyMastcould you put it in the topic of the meeting channel ? im not sure if im abled to be there during the meeting09:07
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=== Gloubiboulga is now known as Gloubi_Aw
Kyralhmmmwhat?09:08
JohnnyMastKyral to be a teacher09:09
JohnnyMastKyral http://www.rosiello.net/ubuntu/09:09
=== ajmitch isn't really that good at being a teacher
=== raphink has the project to write a thesis on teaching computer sciences
ajmitchthe 'lessons' need more interaction09:15
raphinkyes09:15
raphinkI was thinking of using a graphical support09:15
raphinksuch as slides on a website09:16
raphinkthe lecturer could control what slide is being viewed as he talks09:16
raphinkjust as when you give a conference09:16
raphinkand then I think the way questions are asked was not very friendly09:16
JohnnyMastremote desktop controle to the "big ubuntu vnc" server09:17
raphinkI reckon it's not easy to deal with questions on a chat lecture09:17
ajmitchwe do what we can09:17
raphinksure ajmitch, just reporting comments :)09:17
raphinkdon't take it personaly09:17
=== ajmitch wasn't
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JohnnyMastHieronymus, ping09:26
=== ajmitch is not really going to be available for reviewing, etc in the next 2 weeks, btw :)
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raphinkRiddell: configure is one of the files that need to be removed in debian/rules ... but if I run debuild -S -sa and then try to build the .dsc, configure is not there anymore ... so I can't build09:28
raphinkRiddell: I added the rm -f in the clean:: rule though :s09:29
ajmitchraphink: why would configure need to be removed?09:29
raphinkhttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=107609:29
ajmitchif you need to get it back, re-run autoconf before calling ./configure again09:29
raphinksee the comment from the 22nd of november09:29
ajmitchwhich means build-depends, evil hacks, etc09:30
raphinkyes09:30
ajmitchugh, massive diff :)09:30
NafalloUnpacking gnokii (from .../gnokii_0.6.8-0.2_amd64.deb) ...09:30
Nafallo/var/lib/dpkg/tmp.ci/preinst: line 6: /usr/sbin/addgroup: No such file or directory09:30
Nafallowtf? :-P09:30
HieronymusJohnnyMast: pong!09:30
raphinkajmitch: this package depends on automake anyway anyway09:30
JohnnyMastHieronymus i uploaded a new version09:31
ajmitchraphink: yes, but you never call automake or autoconf09:31
ajmitchunless kde.mk does so09:31
raphinkso I shall use the autoconf.mk09:31
raphink?09:31
LaserJockcould I get somebody to look at some dbg output at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5761 real quick?09:31
ajmitchraphink: maybe. I haven't used it so I don't know :)09:31
JohnnyMastlooking09:31
raphinklet's see09:32
raphinkI'll try something else09:32
raphinkhaving it depend on automake1.9 instead of 1.6 since this is thel ast version09:32
raphinkisn't there a package for automake that would always depend on the last version?09:32
slomoalways the last version is evil09:32
slomodepend on and use a version you know which works09:33
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ajmitchslomo++09:33
slomoand the autotools cdbs class can do the rebuilding of the stuff for you... but i can't remember the options currently ;)09:33
raphinkslomo: I was told 1.9 works fine09:33
slomotry it and when it works fine use it :)09:33
ajmitchLaserJock: talk to dholbach about yelp09:34
raphinkwell it seems using automake1.9 solves the pb though09:34
LaserJockdholbach: ping?09:35
raphinkooh stupid me09:35
raphinklol09:35
ajmitchhopefully dholbach isn't asleep yet :)09:35
ajmitchraphink: ?09:35
raphinknm09:35
raphinkhehe09:35
slomorajasun: DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_X where X = AUTOCONF, AUTOMAKE, LIBTOOL, ACLOCAL09:35
raphinkajmitch: nm09:35
ajmitchplease enlighten the rest of us09:35
slomoraphink: set the ones you need to true09:35
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HieronymusJohnnyMast: what's the massive ttb script doing in the .diff.gz? And you haven't fixed anything, have you, or am I looking at the wrong version?09:37
JohnnyMasti think ur looking @ the wrong one09:37
ajmitchanything that is built when compiling the package or just building it, shouldn't need to be in the diff09:37
=== ajmitch tries to parse that sentence for english
HieronymusJohnnyMast: link?09:38
JohnnyMastok09:38
JohnnyMasthttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=116409:38
ajmitchstill a 32k diff09:38
Hieronymushttp://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/ttb-0512141530/ttb_0.9.4-1ubuntu1.diff.gz09:39
Hieronymusthe whole ttb program is in the diff I think09:39
ajmitch http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=116409:39
ajmitchsigh09:39
ajmitch--- ttb-0.9.4.orig/build/scripts-2.4/ttb09:39
ajmitch+++ ttb-0.9.4/build/scripts-2.4/ttb09:39
Hieronymus+++ ttb-0.9.4/build/scripts-2.4/ttb09:39
JohnnyMastyes its the main pytion script09:39
ajmitchyou aren't removing build/ in clean?09:39
JohnnyMastnow how did it het there09:39
ajmitchJohnnyMast: you forgot to remove it09:39
JohnnyMast*sike*09:39
JohnnyMastoops09:39
ajmitchthe clean target is quite empty09:40
=== JohnnyMast adds it to the todo
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu
JohnnyMastadded09:40
JohnnyMastdholbach , ping09:43
dholbachajmitch, LaserJock, JohnnyMast: on the phone09:43
JohnnyMastalright09:44
JohnnyMastajmitch i found the MOTU theme song09:44
JohnnyMastajmitch http://www.rosiello.net/downloads/13%20-%20Princes%20of%20the%20Universe.ogg09:45
ajmitchthat's nice09:46
=== ajmitch can't listen to it right now
JohnnyMastwell some one listen see if we all agree09:46
raphinkslomo: where shall I set these flags ?09:46
raphinkin the beginning right?09:47
ajmitchdholbach: archived another upload of yours on revu :)09:47
slomoraphink: yes09:47
raphinkDEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF = true09:47
raphinkdoesn't work09:47
LaserJockJohnnyMast: cool, I do like the intro09:48
JohnnyMastme 209:48
raphinkmaybe it's automake09:48
JohnnyMastwe are the princes of the univerce:)09:48
ajmitchsounds worrying09:48
raphinkoh no09:48
raphinkDEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF = true09:48
raphinkoop09:48
raphinkDEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOMAKE = 1.609:49
raphinkI think09:49
slomoraphink: oh, yes... sorry :) but you probably need automake, autoconf, aclocal09:49
raphinkslomo: I use DEB_AUTO_UPDATE_AUTOCONF09:51
JohnnyMastLaserJock there is also a ghotic like part ... i like that part09:51
raphinkand it says : missing separator09:51
slomoraphink: use google or look at the makefile :) i can't remember how to use it, i only saw it once in another package and don't use it myself somewhere09:52
raphinkok09:52
ajmitchhm09:54
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ajmitchI think we need to email people who have packages on REVU09:54
ajmitchI don't know if comments that people add are emailed out automatically, are they?09:54
slomono09:55
ajmitchso there are people who uploaded back in october or earlier, who have had recent comments09:55
minghuaI was actually thinking that we need a list like debian-mentors10:00
ajmitchminghua: possibly10:00
minghuaand if REVU are only used for new ubuntu packages from now on, it won't hurt to send such RFS requests to said list10:01
minghuaand if ubunut-motu list is not busy, it can be used for this purpose10:01
ajmitchwe have the motureviewers list10:02
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ajmitchoh dear, launchpad UI had changed again10:04
ajmitchhttps://launchpad.net/people/motureviewers10:04
JohnnyMastpygtk == python-gtk2  right ?10:04
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minghuaJohnnyMast: yes, if pygtk > 2.0 :-)10:05
JohnnyMastok thanks10:05
dholbachajmitch: thanks10:05
dholbachLaserJock: yelp?10:05
dholbachJohnnyMast: nice :)10:05
JohnnyMastyeah you liked it ? cool10:06
ajmitchJohnnyMast: why is malone 4811 still pending upload?10:07
UbugtuMalone bug #4811: phpmyadmin.prerm: line 12: db_get: command not found In: phpmyadmin (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/481110:07
JohnnyMastgood question10:07
=== ajmitch will marks it as fixed in dapper, the fix supplied is unnecessary
JohnnyMastyeah :( i did my best on it10:08
ajmitchit just required some knowledge of an evil system called yada10:08
ajmitchrather than relying on the workaround that people suggested10:08
ajmitchyada is really *evil*10:09
JohnnyMasti was thinking of repack it10:09
ajmitchdo *not* do that10:09
ajmitchthere's no way we'd approve that upload, no matter how broken yada is ;)10:10
LaserJockdholbach: yelp crashes for me dbg output at http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/576110:10
dholbachLaserJock: which version is it?10:10
LaserJockdholbach: of yelp, the latest in dapper10:11
LaserJockdholbach: but it doesn't do it in a dapper chroot10:11
dholbachanything strange in the terminal output?10:11
LaserJockdholbach: I tried creating another user and it does the same thing10:11
LaserJockdholbach: no10:11
LaserJockdholbach: I just get a dialog box that says the yelp has quit unexpectedly10:12
dholbachyou just started it?10:12
LaserJockdholbach: yes, anything I do with yelp is the same10:13
dholbachcould you try to follow the steps on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProgramCrash and send the backtrace?10:13
Tonio_hi again10:13
ajmitchJohnnyMast: another thing, use -Xubuntu1 rather than -XUubuntu1 in debdiffs :)10:13
LaserJockdholbach: yeah10:13
dholbachcool10:13
Tonio_anyone know the process to get in a translation group in launchpa ?10:14
Tonio_simply email the group's responsible ?10:14
JohnnyMastajmitch Ubuntu was in phpmyadmin?10:14
ajmitchJohnnyMast: mgp, malone 319710:14
UbugtuMalone bug #3197: AbiWord grammar checker does not get installed In: abiword (Ubuntu), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Ubuntu GNOME Team, Status: New https://launchpad.net/bugs/319710:14
ajmitchhm10:14
ajmitch329710:14
ajmitchyou also had wron bug number in changelog :)10:14
ajmitchmalone 329710:15
UbugtuMalone bug #3297: mgp puts binaries in /usr/X11R6/bin, which is not in the default $PATH In: mgp (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Reviewers Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/329710:15
raphinkdoesn't work :(10:15
ajmitchJohnnyMast: also, /usr/X11/bin doesn't even seem to exist on my box10:16
JohnnyMastat the time i was on that bug, i worked on breezy wich had that dir(if i remember correctly)10:17
ajmitchand you know now that we do all fixes for dapper )10:17
ajmitch:)10:18
JohnnyMastyeah hehe10:18
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LaserJockdholbach: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/576510:24
dholbachLaserJock: gecko_prefs_set_string() - nothing funny, if you start yelp from the terminal?10:25
ajmitchKyral: comments on easychem on REVU10:25
LaserJockdholbach: what do you mean? I get nothing if I start from terminal, just error dialog10:26
dholbachnothing in the terminal?10:26
LaserJockno10:26
dholbachhrm10:26
dholbachbut it seems to be the same issue as Nafallo had10:27
dholbachyou might get this output:10:27
LaserJockdholbach: seems weird to me that it works fine in my chroot10:27
dholbachNafallo nafallo@darkelf:~ $ strace yelp 2&> tmp/yelp10:27
dholbachNafallo nafallo@darkelf:~ $ grep nspr tmp/yelp10:27
dholbachNafallo open("/usr/lib/libnspr4.so", O_RDONLY)  = 310:27
dholbachno, that's accurate10:27
dholbachmust be /usr/lib/libnspr4.so vs /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/bla/something/libnspr4.so10:28
ajmitchyay10:28
Kyralajmitch: what should I do about that? Get rid of debian/copyright?10:28
ajmitchmore nastiness10:28
ajmitchKyral: crazy idea10:28
LaserJockdholbach: "open("/usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/libnspr4.so", O_RDONLY) = 3" is what I get10:28
dholbachin the chroot?10:28
LaserJockno10:29
ajmitchKyral: upstream should learn how to properly apply the GPL to their source ;)10:29
=== Kyral falls down
Kyralhow is that my problem? ;P10:29
dholbachLaserJock: you could have different outputs in both cases10:29
LaserJockdholbach: I get nothing in the chroot10:29
ajmitchKyral: debian/copyright should reflect what the source has10:29
Kyralajmitch: Ah...so I should..?10:29
ajmitchie, the source doesn't state (or any later version)10:30
dholbachoh hm wlel10:30
dholbachthat's weird also10:30
dholbachLaserJock: could you file a bug on yelp with that information?10:30
ajmitchKyral: I'm just trying to minimise the chances of elmo rejecting based on license issues10:30
dholbachthe trace and the version and everything?10:30
Kyralajmitch: ah...10:30
LaserJockdholbach: sure, I just wanted to know if it was just me ;-)10:30
dholbachLaserJock: you rock10:30
dholbachthank you10:30
ajmitchKyral: I'd like to see it in, really :)10:30
Kyral...but it says GPL in the COPYing...10:31
=== Gloubi_Aw is now known as Gloubiboulga
ajmitchKyral: yes, and the COPYING file says how to apply it10:32
ajmitchKyral: upstream is meant to state if they want to use GPL 2 or later10:32
ajmitchmost people don't actually read the GPL :)10:32
Kyralah....so in copyright I should state GPL2?10:33
ajmitchin copyright you might need to have the text that upstream uses10:33
ajmitchreferring to /usr/share...10:33
=== ajmitch isn't sure
Kyralcat COPYING >> debian/copyright10:33
ajmitchand you'll get smacked down10:34
Kyrallol10:34
KyralGood to know10:34
ajmitchsee http://ftp-master.debian.org/REJECT-FAQ.html10:34
ajmitchCommon license : Do not include a license that is in /usr/share/common-licenses into your debian/copyright. That's a waste of space.10:34
ajmitchthere are a number of good tips in there10:35
ajmitchwhich wiki page should link to this? :)10:35
KyralYah no kiddin10:36
=== Kyral is still off on what he should do to rectify this mistake
ajmitchat minimum, remove the 'or later version' from debian/copyright10:37
LaserJockajmitch: I'm going to bookmark that for the Packaging Guide ;-)10:37
ajmitchthat will probably make it ok for upload10:37
Kyralah10:37
ajmitchLaserJock: great10:37
KyralI wonder if I should wait until my @ubuntu.com goes live10:37
KyralLJ yours work yet?10:38
LaserJockdon't know, I doubt it10:38
LaserJockdo you have to put something in URL when reporting a bug on bugzilla?10:39
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raphinkslomo: I've set the flags... debuild fails with http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/46433110:43
raphinkthen if I try to run automake manually, I get http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/46433210:43
raphinkindeed aclocal is missing, although I've set it10:44
slomolooks like a too old automake...10:44
slomouse 1.9 as you said before10:44
slomofor automake and aclocal... for autoconf 2.5910:45
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raphinkhmm ok I'll try10:45
ajmitchah, jdong10:45
KyralJDong10:45
jdonghey10:45
minghuahi jdong, I have a question for you10:45
jdongsure10:45
LaserJockdholbach: bugzilla 2101510:46
minghuajdong: what is the policy for breezy-backports with modified source now?10:46
dholbachLaserJock: thanks10:46
jdongminghua: currently no mod sources10:46
raphinkI can't set the version for autoconf but I have 2.59 on my comp slomo10:46
raphinkslomo: as of automake/aclocal, I get the same error with 1.910:46
minghuajdong: due to the libstdc++ allocator transition, scim can't be backported from dapper as is10:46
jdongminghua: yes, I've heard that one10:46
jdongminghua: I've been toying with this idea: http://ubuntubackports.org/wiki/index.php/SourceChanges10:47
minghuajdong: that means no scim backports, but I'm okay with that10:47
jdongminghua: correct; currently it'd mean no backport10:47
minghuajdong: just to know the status, and I'll spread the words10:47
jdongminghua: likewise with some other packages with these disappointingly small changes necessary.... :)10:47
jdongminghua: perhaps teach them how to (responsibly) build a backport of it themselves? ;)10:48
slomoraphink: *sigh* ugly autotools... what happens when you run autoreconf by hand?10:48
raphinkslomo: seems it works if I run `make -f Makefile.cvs' manually then automake && autoconf10:48
minghuajdong: both ubuntu-ja and ubuntu-zh has their own backported repos, so I'll probably collaborate with one of them10:48
jdongminghua: cool, sounds very appropriate10:49
slomoraphink: what das Makefile.cvs do?10:49
raphinkno idea10:49
slomolook at it ;)10:49
minghuajdong: as currently the backporting required modifying source package (c2a back to c2), it's probably not for ordinary user :-)10:49
raphinkhmmm10:49
raphinksure10:49
jdongminghua: :-/, depends on the definition of 'ordinary user' ;)10:50
slomoraphink: btw, aclocal should be called first iirc... then autoconf, then automake10:50
minghuajdong: okay thanks for your time, I'll update the thread on backport forum10:50
raphinkI tried that slomo, but it doesnt change anything, it's just setting variables, not calling subs10:50
jdongagainst my better judgement, I shall backport xfsprogs on my system :)10:50
jdongminghua: np, thanks for checking with me10:50
raphinkslomo: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/46434110:51
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slomoraphink: ah... kde magic? wonderfull... better ask someone with kde knowledge then ;) whatever this stuff in admin does10:51
raphinkslomo: so it runs admin/Makefile.common10:51
slomoraphink: yes, what does it do?10:52
raphinkhttp://ubuntu.pastebin.com/46434310:52
raphinkso it calls cvs.sh10:54
raphinkto build the files10:54
ajmitchoh nasty kde build systems10:54
Kyrallol10:54
raphinkhttp://ubuntu.pastebin.com/46434510:54
raphinkthat's what is says when building10:55
Kyralajmitch: I fixed the copyright file. should show up in REVU soon10:55
raphinkrunning10:55
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ajmitchKyral: cool10:55
ajmitchhey siretart10:55
ajmitchah, that was just netsplit join, hopefully he is actually around10:55
slomoraphink: actually no idea... autotools themself are annoying enough sometimes but the kde buildsystem is even worse... look in the kde cdbs class if there's some variable to set for regeneration of everything you need...10:56
raphinkslomo: do you think I could call that in the prebuild, instead of using the _UPDATE_ flgas ?10:56
KyralWhy can't people just use Makefiles?10:56
slomoraphink: sure10:56
raphinkI'll do that then10:57
raphinkit's faster10:57
slomoKyral: because autotools are more confortable if you use them sane ;)10:57
slomoraphink: but be carefull with the versions10:57
Kyralslomo: or Autotools ;P10:57
raphinksure10:57
Kyralslomo: I meant instead of these insane things like Scons and xmkpf or whatever it is10:57
seth_k|lappyslomo, you looked at http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1070 once before, do you think you could have time to do it once more sometime?10:57
KyralYah it hit REVU10:58
slomoseth_k|lappy: sure... i'll add it to my todo list... but i can't promise anything until the weekend ;)10:58
Kyralnow I need slomo to advocate again ;P10:58
seth_k|lappyslomo, no problems... just whenever you get a chance :D10:59
slomoKyral: url please10:59
raphinkseems to work10:59
Kyralhttp://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=116610:59
slomoKyral: while you're at it... consider using dpatch or improve your patchsystem ;)11:00
=== Kyral falls down
ajmitchhehe11:00
KyralI don't know any other way11:00
ajmitchso learn, or be creative11:00
KyralWhat the hell do you think I was doing during the lesson on Patching?11:00
ajmitchI mean improving on what \sh taught11:01
slomoKyral: np, it works... but it's really a bit fragile ;) consider looking at a package which uses dpatch... hmm, ajmitch, name one :)11:01
ajmitchdon't ask me :P11:01
=== Kyral adds it to the list of things to do over break (if he doesn't get kicked out)
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seth_k|lappyajmitch, I swear swear swear noteedit is sane this time; care to peek? https://launchpad.net/bugs/557711:02
UbugtuMalone bug #5577: noteedit: merge new debian version In: noteedit (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: MOTU Merge Team, Status: PendingUpload https://launchpad.net/bugs/557711:02
=== ajmitch doesn't know anything about this packaging stuff
=== Kyral hits the ground laughing
seth_k|lappyslomo, when should one use cdbs vs. dpatch? or is it a preference thing11:02
ajmitchseth_k|lappy: you can use dpatch with cdbs11:03
ajmitchsince cdbs doesn't specify a patch system11:03
slomoKyral: ah, i have one... mono uses dpatch ;)11:03
ajmitchseth_k|lappy: asking me to review a kde package?11:03
=== Kyral sighs
slomocdbs even has a nice include for using dpatch11:03
ajmitch\sh is really a better person to ask if he's around11:03
seth_k|lappyalrighty11:03
minghuaI use dpatch exclusively11:03
ajmitchslomo: you'd reject a package just because it *doesn't* use dpatch?11:04
KyralMy first priortity is that a package installs sanely11:04
Kyraland works as advertised11:04
Kyralonce thats done I can clean up the debian dir11:04
slomoajmitch: nope... that was a suggestion, no must :)11:04
minghuahey ajmitch, dpatch is not _that_ bad...11:05
seth_k|lappywait, if cdbs doesn't specify a patch system, what manner of voodoo is cdbs-edit-patch? I use that normally, but I worked on a package last week that used dpatch and then I used dpatch-edit-patch, so I assumed cdbs had its own patch system.11:05
Kyralin Linux voodoo usually has something to do with Bash Scripting and sed11:05
ajmitchseth_k|lappy: cdbs includes an example, called simple-patchsys11:06
ajmitchit also has support for quilt & dpatch11:06
slomoajmitch: in fact i already advocated it before ;)11:06
ajmitchslomo: I know11:06
sivangsimple-patchsys doesn't require you have a 00list of patches,11:07
sivangbut rather on dictionary sorting of patches filenames to form order in application? ( ajmitch ?)11:07
sivangs/on/an/11:07
ajmitchsivang: I think so11:07
slomobut dpatch allows more customization... it's even possible to run 00list through a preprocessor before using it etc ;)11:07
JohnnyMastajmitch in my revu am i allowed to code an own setup.py ?11:07
ajmitchJohnnyMast: depends on how crackful it is11:08
sivangslomo: right, so you get many gnome stuff using this (as I've seen)11:08
minghuaso in simple-patchsys is there any way to have a patch but not applied (for backport purpose, for example)?11:08
\shseth_k|lappy: cdbs works with simple patch sys..which means normal diffs...it adjusted dpatch-edit-patch to cdbs-edit-patch11:08
ajmitchminghua: nope, it's only a simple system11:08
=== Kyral sighs
KyralI've done it again11:08
minghuaajmitch: sure, fair enough.  but I think I'll stick to dpatch for now :-)11:08
\shbut as we could see the last time..if someone is breaking cdbs ... nothing compiled anymore11:08
KyralI've sparked a discussion on patch systems11:09
seth_k|lappytrue11:09
ajmitchKyral: easychem has a few build warnings11:09
ajmitchhttp://revu.tauware.de/revu1-incoming/easychem-0512011625/easychem_0.6-0ubuntu1.buildlog11:09
Kyralajmitch: it does?11:09
sivangI thought setup.py is actualyl the "debhelper" of dist-utils, that you take a template and "override" the methods to run your own customization code, if to follow OOP11:09
\shthe rule but says...don't use a patch system at all, when there is no one...do your changes in the diff.gz11:09
ajmitch\sh: we're talking about a new package here11:09
sivang\sh: so that means manually diffing, and including all changes into the diff.gz , that will be applied by the debian/rules on build?11:10
KyralI see newline warnings....11:10
ajmitchone with a patch systme learnt from the motu school :)11:10
\shwell...then I prefere diff and patch and debhelper :) so I know what i'm doing :)11:10
ajmitchKyral: library.c:1: warning: ISO C forbids an empty source file11:10
ajmitchas well as string length warnings11:10
sivangajmitch: he did? :-)11:10
Kyralso you want me to go fix them?11:11
sivangcan I ask here autotools and gnu general project question guys? ;-)11:11
sivangslomo: btw, packages the follow that approch seem scary :)11:12
sivangslomo: (00list.in , install.in etc...)11:12
slomosivang: sure... but i can't promise that i know the answer ;)11:12
sivangslomo: you know notify-send ?11:13
sivangslomo: (thank alot btw)11:13
slomosivang: i know what it does... but that's it ;)11:13
raphinkslomo: running `make -f Makefile.cvs' in pre-build:: works fine :)11:14
dholbachgood night everybody11:14
raphinknight dholbach :)11:14
ajmitchbye dholbach :)11:14
slomogn8 dholbach :)11:14
dholbachnight guys :)11:14
sivangnight dholbach11:14
LaserJockgood night dholbach11:15
Kyralnoight dholbach11:15
dholbach:)11:15
sivangslomo: don't worry about it. a small CLI wrapper that uses libnotify11:16
slomosivang: that's exactly what i know about it :P11:17
sivangslomo: all there is, but do you know if it supports some kind of callbacks? (I wasn't abel to find those by reading it man page)11:17
slomosivang: callbacks for a CLI program? hm, i doubt it... (why don't you use the library itself?)11:18
\shgoing again......I don't make it...watching harry potter11:18
sivang\sh: still feeling bad?11:18
\shit's getting worse11:18
\sh39.8 degree11:18
sivang\sh: oh man, I hope you get better soon11:18
sivang\sh: you need compresses11:18
sivang\sh: (cold ones)11:19
\shnot now....when it's going over 40..I had this before...:011:19
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ajmitchsome 'medicinal' brandy?11:19
sivangyes, I think its in place11:19
sivangadvil or so11:19
sivangslomo: ok, so I decided that I am going to use the library directly :)11:20
KyralAgain I get Jeff's voice in my head going "We do NOT have a drinking problem in this project!"11:20
slomosivang: what are you doing btw? :)11:20
sivangslomo: exactly for those reasons, how do I start a C project that will have all the necesary foo, for using libnotify to produce 3-4 small binaries ? :-)11:20
sivangKyral: were you in Montreal?11:21
Kyralsivang: bingo :D11:21
KyralOnly for the Love Day11:21
sivangKyral: oh man, I didn't meet you nor knew who you are, and we talked quite some bits over IRC :)11:22
Kyralsivang: I know lol11:22
sivangslomo: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup11:22
slomosivang: you mean the autotools magic required for that? well, as it's C you can probably take one of the millions of tutorials out there :)11:22
KyralI met Mitch and dholbach and \sh...11:22
sivangKyral: well, I'm not nearly as half handsome and charming as they are so I guess you didn't loose too much - but it would have been nice to meet :)11:23
Kyralsivang: indeed11:23
KyralI cannot wait for the next conference11:23
ajmitchMitch? who is Mitch? :P11:23
KyralWait...I hope I can arrange transportation lol11:23
sivangslomo: right. I though there was a quicker way like "you know what, this is a package I worked on - take it's auto-foo as a template and just reaplce yours" :-)11:23
=== Kyral bonkers ajmitch
Kyral..damn tabcomplete dictionary11:24
sivangwhat is bonkers?11:24
KyralI meant "bonk"11:24
Kyraltab complete took it though11:24
sivangslomo: anyway, will look for a tutorial :)11:25
slomosivang: i have some started but never finished projects on my hdd... but today i would do many things different ;) but look for example at... hmm... thoggen and evince autotools stuff looked nice and clean iirc11:25
sivangslomo: how do you know what directives to use in configure.in ? AFAIK they change constantly :-/11:26
=== eruin shouts loudly at ATI
sivangand most intros appear old and out dated..11:26
slomosivang: hmmm, if you don't have any idea look at millions of examples and extract what you need from them =)11:27
sivangslomo: right, I know - I'll use update-notifier :)11:27
slomosivang: isn't it written in python?11:28
sivangslomo: nope, at least not according to what mvo told me. libnotify hasn't still seen a decent python binding lib11:28
slomooh, yes... seems to be C :)11:28
slomothen it's a good example probably11:29
sivangslomo: I hope.thanks!11:29
raphinkRiddell: all changes done11:29
slomosivang: but when you have some more specified questions feel free to ask me :)11:30
sivangslomo: sure, thanks alot :)11:30
slomonp :)11:31
slomogood night everybody11:31
raphinknigth slomo11:32
sivangnight slomo11:32
raphinkthanks for your patience and advice11:32
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tsengwoo flight 2!11:54
eruinhey lads, do any of you know whether package md5sums are checked after download, before install?11:55
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ajmitchI believe they are11:56
eruinthat's good enough for me :)11:57
eruinI'm on a very fast, but very unstable connection11:58
ajmitchthe Packages.gz has an md5sum per package11:59
ajmitchand Release is GPG_signed, with an md5sum of each Packages, Source, etc11:59
ajmitchbbl12:00

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