[01:19] <lukacu> good night
[02:30] <klepas> anyone awake?
[05:50] <klepas> hi
[06:34] <artnay> klepas: hey
[07:27] <artnay> http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event - artwork team needs to have meeting this year x)
[07:28] <artnay> any suggestions for a date?
[07:28] <artnay> 24th, err.
[07:47] <Tm_T> :o
[07:48] <Tm_T> erh, I just realised that I didn't have cursor themes installed
[07:50] <artnay> did you find a decent one?
[07:50] <Tm_T> yu
[07:51] <Tm_T> one from klo and another is basic whiteglass
[07:53] <Tm_T> ok, time to reboot with updates ->
[09:45] <artnay> hey guys, do you have any suggestions for meetings?
[09:45] <artnay> how about at least one gathering once a month?
[09:46] <Tm_T> sounds good to me
[09:46] <artnay> what about time? people involved in this seem to be from all over world
[09:46] <artnay> so what time would be suitable?
[09:47] <artnay> damn, no KDE lock available at the moment :(
[09:52] <artnay> how about the dates? should we pick up a date? it's better way than "every first wednesday of the month"
[09:52] <lukacu> hello artnay, i think the weekend is the best choice
[09:52] <artnay> let's gather something up and then post a proposal to list
[09:53] <artnay> lukacu: maybe true. then if some important people are always unable to attend on saturday... I don't know
[09:53] <artnay> I've been browsing the mailing list and the posts considering a meeting
[09:53] <artnay> you do the same :)
[09:53] <lukacu> ok
[09:59] <artnay> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-July/000046.html
[10:02] <artnay> lukacu: I see you replied there
[10:02] <lukacu> yes, but that was june ... i think the situation is a bit different now
[10:03] <artnay> I was just going to ask ;)
[10:04] <artnay> so any GMT suggestions after reading all those threads?
[10:04] <lukacu> i wanted to attend that first meeting but the time was realy unfriandly for europe-dwelling folks
[10:05] <artnay> yep, but volvoguy lives in states and andyfitz in australia. this is problematic ;)
[10:06] <lukacu> yes i know ... but there are lot of active members of the art team in europe and they should not be ignored :)
[10:07] <artnay> true, therefore we need the contact page to be updated
[10:07] <artnay> so we could see from where the majority is coming from
[10:07] <artnay> blah, don't mind the typos
[10:08] <lukacu> i dont mind them ... i do a lot of them myself ;)
[10:09] <artnay> still we understand each other, that's the most important thing
[10:09] <lukacu> :)
[10:10] <lukacu> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-July/000109.html
[10:11] <lukacu> there is a chance that volvoguy and andyfitz change mornings and evenings ...
[10:12] <lukacu> dont know if that is still possible though
[10:13] <artnay> meeting has been added to to-do list
[10:14] <artnay> that should be covered in wiki
[10:15] <artnay> I guess I mail volvoguy once again
[10:15] <artnay> and invite him here
[10:17] <lukacu> yes ... he is a bit inactive ... problems with health i assume. hope he is ok
[10:22] <artnay> he's recovering
[10:22] <artnay> most definitely
[10:22] <lukacu> thats good
[10:24] <lukacu> but for the future i think that we need to distribute the roles a bit more ... 
[10:25] <artnay> we should clearify the roles in the first place
[10:25] <lukacu> eg. a substitute coordinator ...
[10:25] <artnay> that way people would know who to contact in certain matters etc.
[10:25] <lukacu> yes
[10:25] <artnay> contact page is one option, it states there that it would be nice if you could add what you'd like to do :)
[10:26] <artnay> speaking of the bad grammar... ;)
[10:26] <lukacu> :)
[10:27] <artnay> when the roles are clear, we can do some sort of schedule
[10:27] <artnay> before that we're just wasting time by not being organized
[10:28] <artnay> a schedule for meetings and goals for dapper...
[10:29] <lukacu> the problem is that there is a bunch of people on this channel and most of them are not talking
[10:32] <artnay> hi there, Riddell.
[10:32] <Riddell> hola
[10:33] <Riddell> hmm, irssi window 56
[10:33] <artnay> 47 :(
[10:33] <Riddell> a main artwork wiki page seems sensible
[10:34] <artnay> anyways, the structure of wiki. what do you think of it? by unifying the pages between different projects, the end-user could find information more easily
[10:34] <artnay> we've been trying to find artwork people behind Kubuntu and Xubuntu
[10:35] <artnay> is there any idea to add something like (Kubuntu KWin) after your name at /ArtTeam?
[10:35] <artnay> that way we would know who's working on what
[10:36] <artnay> as there's no separate project pages yet (that would include participants, dependencies between projects, current issues etc.)
[10:38] <Riddell> there's no paticular kubuntu artwork person, I just poke whoever is around until they make something cool
[10:39] <lukacu> artnay: i will add my interests next to my name now...
[10:40] <artnay> hehe. maybe if we could organize a bit, make it easy to find the needed information from wiki, people might contribute more than they are now doing
[10:41] <artnay> Riddell: are you interested to brand Kubuntu's KDE? (what a silly question, right?)
[10:42] <artnay> I should stfu, I can't type today
[10:46] <artnay> if we could minimize the need to browse several different sites and FAQs, compilation of decos etc. by providing pre-made themes as .debs, that would make it easy to change the feeling that DE gives
[10:46] <Riddell> artnay: KDE is a strong part of the kubuntu brand so I try to keep it both close to KDE and give it it's own Kubuntu identity
[10:46] <artnay> lots of people seem to dislike Kubuntu just because "it's blue" and they don't have the needed knowledge to change what they want easily
[10:46] <Riddell> what's wrong with blue!
[10:46] <artnay> Riddell: :D
[10:48] <artnay> just provide an easy way to change the feeling of DE. some do like GNOME being blue, some KDE being brown. I'm not saying that defaults should be changed, but just to give an option
[10:48] <Riddell> yep
[10:52] <artnay> but what we're lacking here? the structure. we wanted to have more opinions, only like four or five people have been thinking about it (or at least only they have been commenting)
[10:53] <artnay> and since there's no replies on the mailing list, we decided to invite people here to discuss
[10:53] <lukacu> artnay: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtTeam ... your turn now ;)
[10:58] <artnay> added myself
[10:59] <lukacu> perhaps now more will follow our lead ...
[11:00] <artnay> hopefully
[11:00] <artnay> Riddell: and hey, I haven't said "thanks" for KDE yet ;)
[11:01] <Riddell> you're welcome :)
[11:02] <Tm_T> hmm, I think I found some "bug" in cursor theme
[11:02] <artnay> Tm_T: not the official one, right?
[11:02] <Tm_T> artnay: "whiteglass" theme
[11:03] <Tm_T> it's not full or half of cursors doesn't work
[11:03] <Tm_T> dunno which  one
[11:04] <artnay> how come I'm not able to find it? just found the homepage for darkglass :/
[11:05] <Tm_T> I can't find it either using google
[11:05] <artnay> apt-file search whiteglass ;>
[11:05] <Tm_T> aye
[11:05] <Tm_T> it's in...
[11:06] <artnay> xcursor-themes
[11:06] <Tm_T> yes
[11:07] <artnay> is it a bug in ubuntu package? oh yeah, you're using dapper... ;)
[11:07] <artnay> anyways, someone should test it on breezy
[11:07] <Tm_T> aye
[11:07] <artnay> and if you're able to find bugs on artwork, please file 'em
[11:07] <Tm_T> it was full theme in hoary
[11:07] <Tm_T> never remembered to install it in breezy =)
[11:10] <artnay> lukacu: how many artworkers have you spoken with? if you can get more people online, it would be appreciated. :)
[11:11] <lukacu> artnay: recently none ... except you :)
[11:13] <lukacu> but lets try spamming the ML :D
[11:15] <artnay> lukacu: if you like to send an invitation, do it already. ;)
[11:16] <artnay> or should we just mail people personally? (use the addresses that are available at /ArtTeam)
[11:17] <lukacu> dont know ... i for one have listed my not-so-very-personal email there ;)
[11:18] <artnay> me too, but I still do get a notification if mail drops there
[11:19] <artnay> have you seen this one: http://art.ubuntu.com/backgrounds/ubuntu/85
[11:20] <lukacu> yup ...uploaded it myself :)
[11:21] <artnay> oh, I didn't know that (how obvious)
[11:23] <lukacu> not very obvious ... not many people know that i am one of the auc admins, perhaps the only active admin right now
[11:23] <lukacu> well ... not so very active but still
[11:23] <artnay> klepas too
[11:23] <artnay> what about art-web? it's unusable, right?
[11:23] <lukacu> yes
[11:23] <artnay> have you tried the cvs version?
[11:24] <lukacu> i am not the server admin
[11:24] <lukacu> cannot upload new system ... i think so
[11:25] <artnay> well at least some of the bugs and usability issues have been written down: http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt_2fToDo
[11:26] <artnay> but would it be easier to get a new CMS?
[11:27] <lukacu> we had this discussion before ... i am not very familiar with this kind of cms-es
[11:28] <lukacu> and the system is already up and running
[11:28] <artnay> art-web is suffering from design problems but CMS used in GNOME/KDE-look is an overkill
[11:28] <lukacu> indeed
[11:28] <artnay> something between both of them would be fine, I guess
[11:32] <Tm_T> hum, restarting X, let's see if setting this cursor theme to X default will help any
[11:32] <lukacu> we need imagemagick on the auc server ... then i can write some useful scripts myself
[11:32] <Tm_T> ->
[11:37] <artnay> lukacu: have you requested it?
[11:40] <lukacu> no :) ... will do it now ... or later today perhaps
[11:41] <artnay> well that could be a short-term solution
[11:42] <lukacu> yes
[11:52] <klepas> i
[11:52] <klepas> oh, mean to say hi
[11:53] <lukacu> hi klepas
[11:57] <artnay> hey klepas 
[11:57] <artnay> :o :o
[12:02] <klepas> wish we could move AUC to a better CMS
[12:02] <lukacu> write henrik about that then
[12:05] <klepas> yea
[12:06] <artnay> or maybe we could ask what are the top priorities in art-web development
[12:06] <klepas> when the mail server is back u[ =\
[12:06] <artnay> if you're not pleased, then change to better if possible
[12:07] <klepas> yep
[12:07] <klepas> my dad has suggested grabbing the CMS that GNOME/KDE look uses
[12:07] <klepas> and installing it locally on our server
[12:07] <klepas> and then adding some content
[12:07] <klepas> and making some users
[12:07] <klepas> opening a port
[12:07] <artnay> test case
[12:07] <klepas> yep
[12:07] <klepas> and giving people an alternative
[12:08] <klepas> because right now adding content to the art-web system is an absolute pain
[12:09] <lukacu> yup ... agree on that :)
[12:10] <klepas> lukacu: would you be interesed in testing GNOME/KDE-look's CMS?
[12:12] <lukacu> if you set it up then yes
[12:12] <klepas> lovely
[12:12] <artnay> I bet that CMS is available from sourceforge
[12:12] <klepas> might do so then
[12:13] <klepas> probably
[12:13] <lukacu> great
[12:16] <artnay> omg
[12:16] <artnay> 12:15  rcappuccio> I hope to finish the API before Christmas
[12:17] <artnay> yay, hopefully kubuntu dapper will include kat be default :o
[12:17] <artnay> s/be/by
[12:17] <klepas> kat takes up a huge amount of sys resources i am told
[12:17] <klepas> and makes KDE a complete lagmonster
[12:17] <artnay> it's being completely rewritten
[12:17] <artnay> that's because of sqlite3
[12:18] <artnay> last time I tried to compile it from svn, it didn't even make daemon... *g*
[12:18] <artnay> anyways, while it worked, it was a beast
[12:19] <artnay> I really hope to see it in future KDE versions and the integration with konqueror
[12:19] <klepas> i hope if that is so i can turn it off
[12:19] <artnay> the new API will have spaces etc. that can be used in amaroK etc.
[12:19] <klepas> and uninstall it
[12:20] <artnay> haha, no way :) once you get used to a powerful metaindexer, you're not switching x)
[12:20] <artnay> speaking of myself there
[12:20] <klepas> lol
[12:20] <klepas> nah
[12:20] <klepas> if they stick in kat
[12:21] <klepas> and don't allow you to disable it/remove it
[12:21] <artnay> well it's being planned to be a part of tenor
[12:21] <klepas> i'm switching to KDE
[12:21] <artnay> it's KDE, of course you're able to switch it off
[12:21] <klepas> /KDE/GNOME
[12:21] <klepas> of course that is if kat sucks
[12:22] <artnay> well this guy is developing it all by himself
[12:22] <artnay> so extra help wouldn't hurt
[12:22] <klepas> hehe
[12:23] <klepas> if i were to try and help i screw everyone up
[12:23] <artnay> "me too"
[12:25] <artnay> klepas: did you look at the wiki?
[12:25] <artnay> it's been separated a bit
[12:25] <klepas> which page(s)?>
[12:26] <artnay> umh, contact has been renewed. introduction should be renewed any time soon
[12:26] <artnay> too much information in it, we should finally move the current /UbuntuArtwork to /UbuntuArtworkResources or something like that
[12:27] <klepas> yup
[12:27] <artnay> and then build /UbuntuArtwork from scratch and do some linking
[12:28] <artnay> the first thing would be the building of /Artwork though
[12:28] <klepas> yes, definitely
[12:28] <klepas> talking with jdub now
[12:28] <artnay> about what, may I ask?
[12:28] <klepas> in #slug (sydney linux user group)
[12:28] <klepas> his support for an art team meeting
[12:29] <klepas> and him posting it for us on the Fridge
[12:29] <artnay> that's cool. we must be sure that volvoguy is present then
[12:29] <artnay> also it would be nice to see AndyFitz and bvc as well
[12:29] <klepas> yes
[12:29] <klepas> i'm sure they'll come
[12:30] <artnay> which date and GMT time?
[12:30] <klepas> GMT
[12:30] <klepas> date..
[12:30] <klepas> either this weekend
[12:30] <artnay> naaah, whatever. just post it ;D
[12:30] <klepas> or sometime next week
[12:31] <klepas> ASAP though!
[12:31] <artnay> true, true.
[12:31] <klepas> MOTU meeting in 7 hours
[12:33] <artnay> oh, btw. http://www.simplifiedcomplexity.com/images/screenshots/dapper/gfxboot-big.png
[12:33] <artnay> usplash got some love, now bigger resolutions are possible (afaik)
[12:33] <artnay> although the splash image has to be 640x400
[12:35] <klepas> nice
[12:35] <klepas> but... rip-off from Suse
[12:35] <klepas> so much of a rip-off
[12:35] <klepas> :P
[12:36] <artnay> :>
[12:38] <artnay> I'm not commenting
[12:40] <klepas> lol
[12:40] <klepas> it so is
[12:40] <klepas> Suse had that with suse 10.0
[12:40] <artnay> it's an ugly kernel hack :p
[12:40] <klepas> anyone who sees it will be like "Suse had that first!"
[12:40] <artnay> anyways, we should get those xubuntu artworkers here
[12:42] <artnay> well I'll go buy candies and ciggies, brb
[12:50] <lukacu> i will also leave now ... ill be back later
[12:54] <klepas> don't know about myself
[01:02] <artnay> mmm
[01:07] <klepas> might watch something and go to sleep
[01:07] <klepas> i can't access my mail atm
[01:07] <klepas> so i can't send out anything
[01:07] <klepas> =\
[01:07] <klepas> might try again tomorrow
[01:09] <artnay> ok
[01:09] <artnay> well
[01:09] <artnay> I might do something to wiki later today
[01:09] <artnay> something minor, I can't do big changes before we have a discussion
[01:14] <klepas> yea
[01:15] <klepas> which is why we have to do it soon
[01:32] <artnay> what's going on, mauricio? what time is it there? 6:30 am?
[01:32] <mhz> see? we have a little time problme :)
[01:32] <artnay> later klepas 
[01:32] <mhz> 09:30
[01:32] <artnay> oh :)
[01:32] <mhz> see you klepas 
[01:32] <klepas> 23:32
[01:32] <artnay> 14:32
[01:32] <mhz> artnay: i fell asleep on the couch
[01:33] <klepas> i'll dooze in and out of the channel
[01:33] <klepas> just expect me when you least expect me :)
[01:33] <mhz> hehehe
[01:33] <mhz> just when we mention your name :)
[01:33] <klepas> lol
[01:33] <artnay> mhz: there has been a lot of discussion in here
[01:33] <klepas> perhaps
[01:34] <klepas> mhz: check the logs
[01:34] <artnay> #ubuntu-artwork has been flooded today ;)
[01:34] <mhz> so it seems
[01:35] <mhz> klepas: artnay: so far, my thoughts are: if only 2 people do the lead.. 2 they are. In other words, many will follow the lead in the end
[01:35] <mhz> and 'meritocracy' will come up
[01:36] <artnay> but we need critique in order to get wiki constructed properly
[01:36] <artnay> and more ideas
[01:37] <mhz> I am commited on so many ubuntu/edubuntu things that I hardly find time to be more active on the things I have less skills (artwork and  accessibility teams)
[01:38] <artnay> :(
[01:38] <mhz> artnay: indeed, I really agree on that
[01:38] <mhz> opinions are very important
[01:38] <mhz> and needed
[01:39] <mhz> but, on the other hand... if the most active people dont get collaboration (in perfect timing) as expected, then we can only do what we can with the resources he have
[01:41] <artnay> well we've been waiting something to happen
[01:41] <artnay> proposal is on the list, people have been invited to discuss with each other
[01:42] <artnay> maybe we should post an open letter to ubuntuforums' art talk section... :o
[01:42] <mhz> For instance, I would love to do things such wallpapers, icons, themes, etc. but AFAIK, the time I spend on learning how to work with graphics  apps. is equivalent to the time I could spend on contributing :(
[01:44] <mhz> I guess that people like you are meant to lead and do the kick off
[01:45] <mhz> if you know about the needs or have a clear thought of what should be done (priorities), then I will obviously follow the lead (as I think I have so far, being so passive)
[01:46] <artnay> well all of us have opinions, but I just happened to be the one that wrote some of them down and gave it to public in order to create discussion
[01:46] <mhz> on other teams (like EdubuntuChile, and EdubuntuChileanTour, I am the active one because I ah ve been more into it and my skills are already there, no need to learn from scratch :) )
[01:47] <mhz> artnay: true
[01:47] <artnay> and that was because I didn't see anything to happen for a few months
[01:47] <artnay> that's too long timespan when cycle is 6 months
[01:47] <mhz> please do not feel down, in the edubuntu list, I have sent opinions, reuqests etc, and sometimes, I still get no answers :(
[01:48] <mhz> artnay: yes, you are absolutely right
[01:48] <artnay> well I'm happy to see there's more people who think the same: something should be done asap
[01:48] <mhz> that is why meritocracy is the key
[01:49] <mhz> artnay: what do you do for living?
[01:49] <artnay> mhz: I work for an ISP
[01:50] <mhz> and why are you interested in artwork?
[01:50] <artnay> well that's what I did before this job, I was a webdev
[01:51] <artnay> and the main reason is that I don't find Ubuntu's GUI to be as good as it could be and I wanted just to give my opinion on it (like anybody cares actually)
[01:51] <artnay> and then I got into this mess :)
[01:52] <artnay> better keep it shut than yell it loudly
[01:52] <mhz> hehehe
[01:52] <artnay> if I just could follow that hint *g*
[01:53] <mhz> artnay: so when you detect a need, and think of a solutions, that mental processing rate is muh faster than mine, because you've been there.
[01:53] <mhz> Me, on the contrary, I am a translator and interepreter who has worked as a teacher and IT support guy.
[01:54] <artnay> and how old were you? 30?
[01:54] <mhz> so my 'been there' skills are more related to translating and detecting needs to pass them along to someone else to actually work on solutions (developers and designers)
[01:56] <mhz> artnay: 30, indeed
[01:56] <artnay> I just feel I should give something back. Ubuntu works ok, I want to help if I just can
[01:56] <mhz> then "show some code", I know you already have the skills.
[01:57] <mhz> whatever contribution you can make, it is mstry appreciated by the ones who dont know how to contribute
[01:58] <artnay> yes, I get you. Trying to find all possible information related to Ubuntu artwork wasn't so easy. now we're trying to get it into one place so everyone can find and access it easily
[02:01] <artnay> anyways, a meeting here would be a nice christmas present for artwork team. get the goals and priorities straight
[02:06] <artnay> but hey, I'm done here at work. later guys!
[03:23] <mhz> Danten: bach_skol, mgalvin: artnay and klepas are suggesting/organizing the ArtWork meeting. Will you participate in it? 
[03:23] <mhz> IIRC it's set for sunday
[03:25] <mgalvin> i don't know how much I can contribute but I will help out in some areas if I can (or have time to)
[03:25] <mhz> mgalvin: thanks
[03:26] <mgalvin> np
[11:29] <mhz> re