[12:03] <mdke> it was iwj@
[12:03] <veli_> alp
[12:12] <jdub> golly, X uploads are entertaining now
[12:13] <Keybuk> oh?
[12:13] <Keybuk> what's broken today?
[12:14] <jdub> oh, dunno, just entertained by buttloads of change mails instead of one lonely one ;)
[12:23] <Nafallo> hehe :-)
[12:25] <Keybuk> mmm, "butt loads"
[12:26] <Nafallo> it's only 155+ no? :-)
[12:36] <ogra> seb128, still here ? 
[12:50] <seb128> ogra: pong
[12:51] <Keybuk> is it bad when you laugh out loud at kernel changelogs?
[12:51] <jdub> elmo: http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/ -> bizarre! (haw haw)
[12:53] <mdke> Keybuk, you know the answer
[12:55] <jdub> hahaha: http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/linux-doomsday
[12:56] <mdke> hey jdub, did you make any progress on the planet ubuntu synching thing?
[12:57] <jdub> not yet
[12:57] <mdke> jdub, :( is it a tricky problem?
[12:58] <jdub> last time i checked, yes
[12:58] <mdke> argh
[12:59] <mdke> jdub, you can't just get direct access to the server and work your stuff directly there?
[12:59] <tseng> mdke: i am guessing youve never met elmo 
[01:00] <mdke> tseng, well I know that people have write access to certain files on the servers
[01:00] <mdke> but no, i haven't met him
[01:01] <mdke> but it would only be write access to one file tbh ;)
[01:04] <jdub> dude, i've explained before that it's not as simple as that, kthxbye, etc.
[01:07] <mdke> jdub, ok chill i was just making a suggestion, don't forget it's been broken for several months now. i was just trying to help
[01:09] <mdke> we set up a planet on ubuntu-it recently, and it was as simple as that
[01:09] <mdke> but no more shall be said from now on, sorry
[01:38] <Nafallo> infinity: ping
[01:58] <infinity> Nafallo : Pong.
[01:58] <Nafallo> infinity: did you say pkg-config was the fault and not linuxdcpp?
[01:58] <Nafallo> infinity: and ehm, could you give-back gnome-phone-manager? :-)
[01:59] <infinity> I was jumping the gun.  SOMETHING is to blame, but I'm not quite sure who.  The environment is getting an impossible variable set, which is upsetting the shell.
[02:01] <Nafallo> if it's not scons, and not pkg-config. what could it be? :-P
[02:02] <Nafallo> AND it builds fine in pbuilder ;-)
[02:02] <infinity> Yeah, I'll need to strace it and see who's setting that variable and why.
[02:02] <infinity> Patience.  This isn't the only thing I have to do today. :)
[02:03] <Nafallo> hehe, no problem. I have it build already and it just segfaults all the time anyway ;-)
[02:48] <Nafallo> infinity: thanks for give-back btw
[04:13] <jdub> anyone have a nice picture of an egg?
[04:13] <jdub> preferably with a plain white background
[04:15] <jdub> ooh, machine locks up on boot now
[04:15] <jdub> fun
[04:16] <jdub> immediately after shpchp is loaded (according to verbose recovery boot)
[04:20] <jsgotangco> ajmitch, HEAVY METAL
[04:37] <jdub> hrm, even -7 halts at detecting and activating hardware
[04:37] <jdub> d'oh
[04:37] <jdub> guess it's boot'n'chroot time whenever this gets fixed ;-)
[04:38] <jdub> or reroot the livecd..
[05:01] <mojo> hmm, weird, I already removed OOo from my Dapper, and I install a new language using Language Selector and it install translation pack for OOo, Bugs? or Non-implemented issue?
[05:57] <slomo_> lamont-away, infinity: please give-back mono on ppc
[06:54] <infinity> slomo_ : Same segv failure the second time.
[07:09] <pitti> Good morning
[07:19] <pitti> infinity: the new make version in Debian seems to fix cdbs; shall we sync it?
[07:20] <desrt> pitti; did you get that launchpad bug i assigned to you a bit back?
[07:20] <pitti> desrt: Hi! not sure which bug you mean
[07:20] <desrt> pitti; gpg
[07:21] <pitti> desrt: I mostly neglected my bug mail this week, too much security stuff
[07:21] <desrt> not pushing for a resoution... i just seriously don't know how launchpad works :p
[07:21] <pitti> desrt: yes, I saw some gpg issue
[07:21] <desrt> ah.  excellent.  that's all i wanted to know :)
[07:21] <pitti> #570
[07:21] <pitti> #5570 even
[07:22] <desrt> yes.  that one.
[07:22] <infinity> pitti : Up to you.  If you've tested this theory, go ahead.
[07:22] <desrt> obviously no rush... pretty minor
[07:23] <pitti> infinity: at least all *my* packages work now again
[07:24] <pitti> infinity: flight-2 is out, let's challenge our luck :)
[07:24] <infinity> You maintain CDBS packages?
[07:24] <infinity> Eww.
[07:24] <pitti> infinity: packages that use cdbs, yes
[07:24] <infinity> I don't love you anymore.
[07:24] <desrt> infinity; he maintains HAL.  the worst cdbs package of all.
[07:24] <pitti> desrt: I doubt that; cups is definitively worse
[07:25] <desrt> but i never feel the desire to hack cups so it doesn't affect me :)
[07:25] <pitti> although I still want to refuse that I maintain cups, but reality teaches me another thing
[07:34] <infinity> I deny maintaining everything with my name in the maintainer or uploaders field, it's easy.
[07:35] <infinity> "Say Adam, do you maintai--" ... "NO!  Piss off!" ... "Uhh, ooookay... <slowly backing away>"
[07:35] <infinity> Speaking of...
[07:36] <infinity> pitti : I accidentally joined the Debian Berkeley DB team earlier today, so if you have any pet bugs in libdb* (other than their existance), let me know.
[07:37] <pitti> heh
[07:37] <pitti> infinity: I usually try to stay away from libdb as far as I can, and none of my packages use them, so I don't really have any particular ones
[07:38] <infinity> Ahh, lucky you.
[07:38] <pitti> infinity: but speaking of which, is 4.3 or 4.4 the true db we should go for in dapper?
[07:38] <infinity> libdb and I have a long history with apache, php, and subversion, so it just made sense to take the lib too.
[07:38] <pitti> seeing that there was yet another version made me cty
[07:38] <infinity> pitti : I've just been discussing this in #debian-release.
[07:38] <fabbione> 3
[07:39] <pitti> wow, Debian's first kernel security update since sarge
[07:39] <infinity> pitti : Trying to convince the world to switch to 4.4.. If I can get Debian buy-in, then we can switch easily.
[07:39] <infinity> pitti : If Debian's not moving, I don't want to become gratuitously incompatible (for packages that use translation logs)
[07:41] <pitti> infinity: right, packages that use transactions are hard to convert anyway? so we'll probably need to keep 4.3 and 3
[07:41] <pitti> erm, s/4.3/4.2/
[07:41] <infinity> Don't see why.
[07:42] <infinity> Anyone with 4.2 installed from breezy won't have it magically removed on upgrade.
[07:42] <pitti> infinity: is there any upgrade tool from upstream that can convert log files?
[07:42] <infinity> Oh, except for aptitude users.  They lose, I guess.
[07:42] <pitti> infinity: no, but if we build new packages against 4.3, then upgrading that package will break data compatibility
[07:42] <infinity> Nothing I've found yet.  We have an icky README in subvesion.
[07:42] <infinity> subversion, too.
[07:43] <infinity> Very few packages actually use transaction logs.
[07:43] <infinity> SVN is one of the few, but the bump seems less scary when you consider that FSFS (not BDB) has been the default repo format for ages now.
[07:43] <pitti> infinity: evolution does at least in the code, but I haven't found log files on the disk, so we might be lucky
[07:43] <infinity> If I had some spare time, I could probably write an upgrade tool that didn't suck too terribly much.
[07:44] <infinity> Yeah, "use transactions" != "use transaction logs"
[07:44] <pitti> infinity: oh, the number of packages that use 4.2 has dropped drastically
[07:44] <infinity> BDB lets you do transactions in memory, which is a lot more common.
[07:44] <pitti> drac, exim4, openldap2[.2] , OO.o, php5
[07:44] <infinity> php5 is building here.
[07:44] <pitti> right, that should be fine
[07:44] <infinity> For about the 30th time.
[07:45] <infinity> exim4 is pain-free to upgrade, we should just do it.
[07:45] <pitti> oh, and apache2
[07:45] <infinity> It already has logic to wipe out incompatible DB hashfiles on upgrade, IIRC.
[07:45] <infinity> apache2 already switched.
[07:45] <pitti> oh, it just appeared in melanie?
[07:45] <infinity> ...
[07:46] <pitti> ** libapache2-mod-perl2 has an unsatisfied dependency on amd64: libdb4.2
[07:46] <infinity> Oh, mod_perl2 != apache2
[07:46] <infinity> Scare me like that....
[07:46] <pitti> ah, sorry
[07:46] <infinity> mod_perl2 can be rebuilt easily enough.
[07:47] <infinity> Uploading an Xbuild1 should magically fix it, in fact.
[07:47] <infinity> It doesn't directly build-dep on libdb.
[07:47] <infinity> (Which means it probably shouldn't link it either, but whatever)
[07:48] <pitti> yeah, one of those excess dependencies vorlon complained about
[07:48] <pitti> *sigh* XSS in mod_imap
[07:48] <infinity> Yeah.  I'll sort that later.  For now, it can just be rebuilt.
[07:49] <infinity> mod_imap as in ImageMap, not mail, right?
[07:49] <pitti> yes
[07:49] <infinity> Man.  I didn't think anyone even used server side image maps anymore.
[07:49] <infinity> In fact, I'll bet no one does.
[07:49] <infinity> Oh well.  Forward me the report, I'll fix up apache*
[07:50] <pitti> infinity: let's do php first
[07:50] <fabbione> pitti++
[07:50] <fabbione> infinity: i need php5 for -server too
[07:50] <infinity> It's a few dozen test builds into maybe being done.. Ish. :)
[07:51] <infinity> PHP and I are having some philosophical arguments.
[07:51] <infinity> Mostly about how much I should hate upstream.
[07:52] <StevenK> Poor infinity. He changes distribution, and *still* can't get php off him.
[07:53] <infinity> Now I just maintain it for two. :)
[07:53] <infinity> It's okay.  I don't actually mind that much.  It gives me something petty to complain about.
[07:53] <StevenK> Heh
[07:53] <StevenK> For you that would be a plus side, wouldn't it? :-P
[07:54] <infinity> beats complaining about things of consequence, which almost invariably leads to pissing off a lot of people in the process.
[07:54] <infinity> Anyhow, back to my petty PHP problems.
[08:03] <dholbach> good morning developers
[08:05] <desrt> good morning, kind sir
[08:07] <kagou> hi
[08:08] <kagou> who can i contact here to delete a login in the wiki and in launchpad ?
[08:10] <fabbione> kagou: ask in #launchpad
[08:10] <fabbione> they might be able to help you
[08:10] <kagou> oh thanks fabbione , sorry i didn't know this chan
[08:10] <fabbione> no problem
[08:14] <pitti> fabbione: oh, btw, I meant 'let's do the php security update first', not dapper stuff :)
[08:17] <fabbione> pitti--
[08:18] <daniels> ssam: it didn't make flight 2, no
[08:19] <daniels> Nafallo_away: i've always rocked
[08:37] <pitti> I'll quickly test the live CD before the distro meeting, brb
[08:48] <sivang> infinity: what sort of philosophical arguments? :)
[08:48] <sivang> morning ,btw
[08:49] <pitti_live> daniels: here?
[08:50] <daniels> X IS NOT BROKEN
[08:50] <daniels> I REFUSE TO HEAR OTHERWISE
[08:50] <siretart> morning daniels :)
[08:50] <hunger_> daniels: Indeed: It works for me (TM)
[08:50] <Mithrandir> daniels: it gives me shit on my 6600GT with the free driver. :-)
[08:50] <daniels> Mithrandir: that's your fault for using a card that's not intel
[08:50] <jbailey> daniels: Right.  My bug with it hanging appears to be a kernel bug. =/
[08:50] <daniels> jbailey: score :)
[08:51] <pitti_live> daniels: In earlier versions I always got a video mode question, now the current live cd didn't ask and set up 1024x768; but my TFT is 1280x1024
[08:51] <daniels> pitti_live: uhm ... the xorg source package hasn't changed since breezy :)
[08:51] <daniels> pitti_live: xorg.0.log and xresprobe output pls :)
[08:51] <daniels> jesus, too many smileys :)
[08:51] <Mithrandir> the current live cd doesn't have any interactive infrastructure at all.
[08:52] <daniels> oh
[08:52] <daniels> score, SEP
[08:52] <Mithrandir> nah, you should just always guess the right resolution.
[08:54] <dholbach> brb
[08:54] <pitti_live> Mithrandir: ok, seems that this is just an arbitrary default then?
[08:54] <daniels> Mithrandir: we would, if you would fix xresprobe already :P
[08:54] <daniels> pitti_live: actually, I know what the problem is
[08:54] <pitti_live> anyway, booting back to normal system, distro meeting starts soon
[08:55] <pitti_live> daniels: great. what is it?
[08:55] <daniels> for some reason, we don't pick up on the EDID input flag
[08:55] <daniels> so we always pick LCDs as CRTs
[08:55] <daniels> i can't debug it because tollef hasn't made ddcprobe work on amd64 yet :P
[08:55] <Mithrandir> daniels: I'm waiting for mjg59 to upload the fixed vbetool so I can nab the emulation code.
[08:55] <daniels> or maybe it's because I'm shit and forgot to port ddcprobe to vbetool
[08:55] <daniels> oh, right
[08:55] <daniels> either way
[08:55] <pitti_live> ok, brb
[08:55] <pitti_live> thanks
[08:55] <daniels> np
[09:09] <pitti> daniels: btw, do you plan to move the magic of xserver-xorg to -core? it is inconvenient to fix /etc/X11/X when I remove xserver-xorg
[09:10] <daniels> pitti: no immediate plans, largely because I can't be fucked dealing with all that debconf template migration entails
[09:10] <pitti> oh, he
[09:10] <daniels> i have more pressing stuff, like fixing the configuration so people other than me can understand it ;)
[09:10] <pitti> I just wondered about the purpose of splitting out drivers when I can't uninstall them
[09:10] <pitti> well, now I did uninstall all but the ones I need, but maybe that should be supported better
[09:10] <daniels> pitti: it was more for ease of mainenance and updates than for people to be able to uninstall stuff
[09:10] <pitti> anyway, not urgent at all, thanks
[09:11] <daniels> ubuntu-desktop would still depend on the full compliment anyway ...
[09:11] <pitti> daniels: right, but that's generally first against the wall anyway :)
[09:12] <daniels> heh
[09:13] <Diziet> Urhg, another problem with getting up this early is that my mirror is running and will be for some hours yet ...
[09:15] <daniels> (seriously, systemic flaws in automake are derailing us now.  i hate all build systems.)
[09:17] <jbailey> daniels: How so?  Automake lets your override each rule if you feel like it/
[09:18] <daniels> jbailey: distcheck builds with DESTDIR= prefix=_inst/ first
[09:19] <daniels> which is completely SUCK, because any path not relative to prefix gets boned
[09:19] <jbailey> daniels: You guys install to absolute paths?
[09:20] <daniels> jbailey: absolutely
[09:20] <daniels> jbailey: we get the app-defaults directory out of pkg-config
[09:20] <jbailey> =)
[09:20] <jbailey> Mmm, joy.
[09:20] <daniels> (sort of defeats the purpose of having it there if you make it relative to $(prefix))
[09:20] <daniels> in any case, that's what DESTDIR is *for* :P
[09:20] <jbailey> Right.
[09:24] <sivang> Diziet: you're using another nick for the meeting? :)
[09:25] <daniels> sivang: multiple irc channels are hard, let's go shopping
[09:25] <sivang> daniels: huh ? 
[09:26] <Diziet> sivang: What daniels said.  But s/shopping/back to sleep/
[09:26] <sivang> ok :)
[10:01] <pitti> Riddell: do you have a demo PDF that breaks with the patch? I tested evince and xpdf with several different types of complex PDFs, and none of them choked
[10:02] <pitti> Riddell: ah, wait, that change was in the gmallocn() function, right?
[10:02] <pitti> Riddell: because at the places I fixed for the 3.00 code, 0 byte allocs didn't make sense
[10:03] <Riddell> pitti: http://kubuntu.org/~jr/tmp/break-kpdf.pdf
[10:03] <doko> infinity: please requeue openal on i386
[10:03] <pitti> Riddell: that works fine here in evince/xpdf
[10:03] <Riddell> was definatly give out "Bogus" before, not sure which "Bogus" it was breaking on
[10:04] <pitti> Riddell: ok, as I mailed, changing to < 0 is fine
[10:04] <pitti> I'm just scared of 0 byte allocations
[10:05] <infinity> doko : Done.
[10:06] <pitti> seb128: btw, regarding tight arch: any <-> all dependencies
[10:06] <pitti> seb128: this probably affects many -common packages for translations only?
[10:06] <Kamion> ogra: if you don't get a 1024x768 mode in the bootloader, that's because your VESA VBE table doesn't list it (at least not with >= 16-bit colour)
[10:06] <Kamion> (and with framebuffer support)
[10:07] <Kamion> ogra: is Edubuntu good to release? I can do that before I run away
[10:07] <ogra> Kamion, it works on install 
[10:07] <ogra> Kamion, powerpc install isnt tested (still waiting for my iMac to be shipped), the rest is good to go
[10:07] <Kamion> I'll release it, you can note that powerpc is untested
[10:08] <Kamion> lives working?
[10:08] <ogra> yup
[10:08] <Kamion> ogra: release announcement is hereby your job, though :)
[10:08] <ogra> yup, will do ...
[10:08] <Kamion> (but wait a bit)
[10:08] <seb128> pitti: -common tend to have the -schemas with the default settings too
[10:09] <ogra> but now i need some sleep, getting ppc took me until 4am .... my line dropped all the time ... didnt get much sleep
[10:09] <seb128> pitti: we don't use a Depends for translations only
[10:09] <jsgotangco> ogra, do you need testing for amd64?
[10:09] <ogra> jsgotangco, nope, thats done 
[10:09] <jsgotangco> i can download it now and give you a report later
[10:09] <jsgotangco> ahh k
[10:09] <ogra> and ppc install will surely still have the same bug as in breezy
[10:09] <Kamion> ogra: just before you go, I'm publishing it now and will ping maswan for mirroring
[10:09] <ogra> Kamion, thanks :)
[10:10] <Kamion> ogra: please wait for the Swedish mirror to update and link to it first in the announcement
[10:10] <Kamion> ogra: we've been having some bandwidth problems in the DC, and maswan is more than happy to make our lives easier in that respect
[10:10] <ogra> Kamion, i'll announce in the evening, should be safe
[10:10] <Kamion> ok
[10:17] <jsgotangco> ogra, just tested oem mode of flight2, i made a hardware test, I got stuck at Network test and it says "Is your mouse working properly"
[10:18] <Treenaks> your networked mouse?
[10:18] <jsgotangco> in my laptop
[10:18] <ogra> jsgotangco, might be, hwdb is on my list for fixes, but i didnt care for it yet
[10:18] <jsgotangco> ahh k
[10:18] <ogra> it didnt work in breezy either
[10:18] <jsgotangco> just to let you know
[10:19] <ogra> yup
[10:19] <ogra> i wasnt assuming it had changed :)
[10:19] <ogra> thanks for the proof :)
[10:20] <janimo> Riddell, is kubuntu-docs still using dpkg-divert for ff about page?
[10:20] <infinity> janimo : It uses update-alternatives
[10:20] <janimo> yay
[10:20] <janimo> that's better i think
[10:21] <janimo> thanks
[10:21] <Riddell> janimo: yes
[10:21] <jsgotangco> wow
[10:21] <jsgotangco> is oem borked?
[10:22] <janimo> Riddell, what infinity said?
[10:23] <infinity> janimo : http://changelogs.ubuntu.com/changelogs/pool/main/k/kubuntu-docs/kubuntu-docs_5.10-0.9/changelog
[10:23] <infinity> janimo : When \sh says "set symlink", he means "update the alternative".  I know, cause I had to fix the code. :)
[10:23] <janimo> inifinity, ok thanks
[10:24] <janimo> I was following the changelogs but nowhere did I see get rid of divert for good
[10:24] <janimo> getting the source now
[10:25] <infinity> janimo : The diversion should be removed when the old package is removed.
[10:25] <infinity> janimo : Assuming the old package properly removed the diversion in it's removal scripts.
[10:25] <janimo> I am trying to add another about page for xubuntu
[10:25] <janimo> and am afraid 3 packages diverting eachother may lead to a mess
[10:25] <infinity> Yes, hence why alternatives are better.
[10:26] <janimo> so am trying to wrap my head aroubd divert and altenatives
[10:26] <infinity> You can't divert the same file twice.  dpkg won't let you.
[10:26] <Treenaks> janimo: but you keep getting diverted? :)
[10:26] <infinity> But once kubuntu-docs is upgraded, the old diversion goes away.
[10:26] <janimo> so will just do what kubuntu does and all is good?
[10:26] <Kamion> ogra: Edubuntu Flight CD 2 publishing to mirrors; announcing in the evening's good
[10:26] <janimo> Treenaks, haven't tried yet I thiught I'd ask here first :)
[10:26] <jsgotangco> yay
[10:27] <jsgotangco> Kamion, is oem install borked?
[10:27] <Kamion> jsgotangco: almost certainly yes
[10:27] <jsgotangco> I had to add my first user on the console
[10:27] <Kamion> I haven't updated it for new tzsetup and user-setup
[10:27] <jsgotangco> i see
[10:27] <Kamion> at the moment it's low-priority; I'll fix it eventually
[10:27] <Kamion> meant to mention it in the release notes but forgot, sorry
[10:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is user-setup in the live seed yet?
[10:28] <jsgotangco> np just been testing oem a lot lately
[10:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: and how am I supposed to use it?
[10:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: don't think so; there's no .deb yet
[10:28] <Mithrandir> Kamion: ook.
[10:28] <Kamion> Mithrandir: my loose plan is to rename user-setup to user-setup-ask and add a user-setup program that does user-setup-ask && user-setup-apply and is only in the .deb
[10:28] <infinity> janimo : Err, oh.  I lied.  \sh didn't use an alternative, he actually sets the symlink by hand.  ARGH.
[10:29] <infinity> janimo : Remind me to smack him for that later, and fix stuff up.  I'm off to dinner first.
[10:29] <infinity> janimo : Ask me again later, and I'll tell you the RIGHT way to do it, which will involve co-ordinating an alternative with ubuntu-docs, etc.
[10:29] <Kamion> Mithrandir: but I'm not going to look at it today. :-)
[10:29] <janimo> infinity, ok I'll wait till it's sorted out in kubuntu, then I'll do exactly the same for xu ok? thanks
[10:29] <infinity> janimo : Yeah, that should work fine. :)
[10:30] <Mithrandir> Kamion: sure, no hurry.
[10:30] <infinity> \sh_away : When I get back from dinner, poke me so I can yell at you for a bit.  Thanks.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I need to add a mechanism for on-first-boot-do-reconfigure which will be used by the live cd.
[10:31] <Mithrandir> since the xorg configuration is entirely noninteractive ATM
[10:32] <jdub> infinity: my machine halts at shpchp (according to verbose kernel output) during startup, with -8 and -7 -> seen that?
[10:33] <Kamion> maswan: Could you please kick off a mirror run for Edubuntu flight-2? Thanks ...
[10:37] <ogra> Kamion, thanks a lot :)
[10:42] <maswan> Kamion: running
[10:42] <maswan> and, whee, it installs, even if alsa doesn't work and stuff. :)
[10:48] <jdub> infinity: usplash needs to depend on a new version of initramfs-tools
[10:55] <Kamion> maswan: ta
[10:55] <JaneW> seb128: ping
[10:55] <seb128> JaneW: pong
[10:55] <Kamion> maswan: has flight-2 noticeably affected bandwidth?
[10:56] <JaneW> seb128: I am doing the report and just found "seb128 hide-admin-tools-to-users: has been implemented previous week but the summary of the previous meeting has no mention of what I wrote on it, should I mention it again?"
[10:56] <JaneW> seb128: so is it implemented? LP doesn't say so
[10:56] <JaneW> seb128: let me know what to put in there please...
[10:56] <maswan> Kamion: nope, not yet: http://www.acc.umu.se/technical/statistics/ftp/monitordata/index.html.en
[10:57] <maswan> Kamion: a bit too early to say how today is going to ramp up (or not) though
[10:57] <seb128> JaneW: it was "implemented, waiting on mvo to make some .desktop changes to be 100% done", which he did ... so yeah, I've forgotten to change it
[10:57] <mvo> seb128: are there any left?
[10:58] <JaneW> seb128: can I set it for you?
[10:58] <seb128> mvo: have you uploaded synaptic/g-a-i/update-manager
[10:58] <seb128> JaneW: sure, thank you!
[10:58] <JaneW> np :)
[10:58] <JaneW> done
[10:58] <seb128> cool
[10:59] <mvo> seb128: yes and language-selector
[11:00] <seb128> mvo: k; so it's alright :)
[11:28] <StevenK> Blah.
[11:28] <StevenK> wnn6-sdk is still broken.
[11:28] <StevenK> The 1.0.0-13 source exists in the archive, but the packages are still 1.0.0-12, which are broken.
[11:42] <pitti> bah - with mdz and Kamion being away, do we have anybody who can promote packages to main?
[11:42] <pitti> elmo: do you promote packages?
[11:43] <elmo> pitti: I can, sure - as long as they're reasonably obvious
[11:43] <pitti> elmo: five language-support packages are uninstallable because some new firefox locales are still in universe
[11:43] <pitti> elmo: I'd say this qualifies as 'obvious'
[11:44] <pitti> ozilla-firefox-locale-ar mozilla-firefox-locale-bg-bg mozilla-firefox-locale-gu-in mozilla-firefox-locale-mk-mk mozilla-firefox-locale-pa-in
[11:44] <elmo> pitti: yes - done
[11:44] <pitti> elmo: thank you
[11:47] <Nafallo> -ENOKEYBUK?
[11:47] <Nafallo> morning btw
[11:48] <StevenK> He quit seven hours ago.
[11:51] <Nafallo> hm, he should be awake again any minute then ;-)
[11:51] <Nafallo> thanks StevenK :-)
[11:57] <dholbach> the new live cd ROCKS, it looks fancy - although ubuntu-livecd does some kde stuff and it doesn't find /etc/X11/xorg.conf (just a warning) and the kernel oops'es, it runs just fine :-))
[11:57] <Mithrandir> dholbach: \o/ :-)
[11:57] <dholbach> and it's fast
[11:57] <dholbach> wow
[11:58] <Nafallo> aha. if it doesn't find /etc/X11/xorg.conf that explains alot :-P
[11:59] <dholbach> it's just a warning
[11:59] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: nah, it's just the xserver-xorg reconfigure which complains
[11:59] <dholbach> come on... who needs config files these days? :)
[11:59] <Nafallo> I had 1024x768 instead of 1280x800 :-P
[11:59] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: fix ddcprobe to work on amd64 and it'll work correctly, kthxbye
[12:00] <Mithrandir> :-)
[12:00] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:00] <Mithrandir> Nafallo: or wait until I've fixed the rest of the cd to do all the crack it's supposed to do, like keymaps/languages
[12:01] <Nafallo> Mithrandir: that's my plan indeed :-)
[12:01] <Mithrandir> dholbach: the oops is known, I've asked BenC to investigate, but it's not in a place where it's easy to debug, AIUI.
[12:02] <dholbach> ok
[12:02] <dholbach> hmmmmm, networking doesnt work
[12:03] <Nafallo> known
[12:03] <dholbach> i see
[12:03] <Nafallo> have you read the announcement? :-)
[12:04] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:05] <dholbach> apart from all that, Testing/Short passed :)
[12:06] <StevenK> With what, 4 tests sucessful? :-P
[12:06] <Mithrandir> I should probably speak with Keybuk about how we are to do live networking.
[12:07] <StevenK> Try DHCP, try DHCP harder, give up and assign a static address of 192.168.0.1 ?
[12:07] <Robot101> zeroconf! :)
[12:07] <Mithrandir> 169.254 if so, but yeah.
[12:09] <Nafallo> StevenK: networkmanager assigns 169.254. ;-)
[12:09] <Nafallo> so it's just as relevant on todays gnome :-P
[12:10] <Nafallo> hehe
[12:10] <Mithrandir> StevenK: it's called link-local and is specified in the relevant RFCs
[12:11] <maswan> dholbach: from http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Short what should you do when you find lots of errors?
[12:11] <StevenK> Mithrandir: I know, I know.
[12:12] <dholbach> maswan: you could have a look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Introduction and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current :-)
[12:12] <dholbach> maswan: or http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing in 
[12:13] <dholbach> maswan: i need to make the testing thing more public
[12:13] <dholbach> maswan: but thanks for caring enough for it :)
[12:15] <maswan> dholbach: Do you care enough to get a testing protocol form Short and file bugs from that?
[12:16] <dholbach> maswan: i think it'd make sense, if people would file bugs on their own and link them on that page. alone the fact, that stuff happens on *their* box.
[12:20] <maswan> dholbach: ok
[12:26] <dholbach> did anybody else suddenly have to add libxdmcp-dev as a build-dep?
[12:28] <Nafallo> dholbach: yes. on gnome-power-manager and network-manager
[12:29] <dholbach> hrmhrmhrmhrmhrm
[12:29] <dholbach> had to do it on timer-applet now too
[12:29] <pitti> BenC: do you have some minutes today to talk about that eject bug? (#5049) I made some further investigations and I think I came closer to the root of the problem
[12:30] <pitti> BenC: today I also have borrowed a device that reproduces the problem
[12:30] <maswan> dholbach: testing/Short might want to check keyboard layout as well as resolution in the default session
[12:30] <dholbach> maswan: oh yes, that's a good point
[12:30] <dholbach> thank you
[12:31] <ogra> Nafallo, huh? what ? when was that added to gnome-power-amanger ? 
[12:31] <Nafallo> ogra: good catch. gnome-phone-manager I meant :-P
[12:31] <ogra> ah
[12:31] <Nafallo> dholbach: ^ ;-)
[12:31] <ogra> k .... :)
[12:32] <Nafallo> yesterday I wrote gnome-php-manager, so I'm advancing to packages that exists atleast ;-)
[12:32] <dholbach> i'm going nuts in here... they have been drilling the whole morning now - i wonder how much of the walls are left in this place
[12:33] <Nafallo> dholbach: I know _that_ feeling.
[12:33] <StevenK> dholbach: None - it's being held up with love and good luck.
[12:33] <Nafallo> they changed all the balconys last spring here.
[12:34] <Nafallo> good idea :-)
[12:35] <Nafallo> I should go shower, screw my bed and some stuff. later.
[12:36] <Mithrandir> screw your bed? :-)
[12:39] <Treenaks> The LugRadio guys are asking for voicemails: +44 870 931 1730 -> <Xalior> everyone phone up and shout "ubuntu" and hang up, with no name. Okay?
[12:39] <HiddenWolf> hahaha.
[12:39] <StevenK> Ouch. STD call to England.
[12:40] <Treenaks> (oh, yeah, it's an international call for everyone outside the UK)
[12:40] <StevenK> The +44 gave that away. :-P
[12:41] <Treenaks> StevenK: Not everyone might be awake enough ;)
[12:43] <Mithrandir> what, you pay for calls to the UK? :-)
[12:44] <ssam> i am sure if you email lugradio an ogg they use that. they just get bored of reading emails
[12:45] <Treenaks> ssam: sure :)
[12:48] <Robot101> StevenK: er, isn't that what debian does?
[12:48] <Robot101> userdir-ldap
[12:48] <StevenK> Yup. But userdir-ldap's code is *HORRID*
[12:49] <StevenK> So, uh, I don't want to use it.
[12:49] <Robot101> me and robster wrote something to sit on a postgres trigger and slurp a query into a flatfile when it gets triggered
[12:49] <Robot101> to get rid of crap like lib{nss,pam}-pgsql (you thought the LDAP ones were bad? ha!)
[12:51] <StevenK> I have *vague* recolections of an ITP, but I can't remember any specifics. :-/
[12:53] <dholbach> ok, why does half the world now have a missing dependency on libxdmpc-dev? :(
[12:55] <ogra> we dont even support xdmcp by default
[12:56] <ogra> you could as well drop it :)
[12:58] <Mithrandir> ogra: apart from Xnest segfaulting at me, it suppported xdmcp just fine last time I tried.
[12:58] <ogra> hm, xnest, didnt think of that ... the default X config has the nolisten tcp option enabled ...
[12:58] <Robot101> ogra: it's 1 line in gdm.conf, works fine
[12:59] <Mithrandir> ogra: yes, and? :-)  That's it's not enabled out of the box doesn't mean it's not supported
[01:00] <ogra> sure, but still, why link half the world with xdmcp ... it should die imho in times of ssh -X :)
[01:01] <ogra> Mithrandir, while youre here ... did you note the change in the dhcp 3.0.3 server ? 
[01:01] <ogra> i'd like a opinion....
[01:02] <ogra> (of someone familiar enough with networking stuff ...)
[01:02] <Robot101> Diziet: how's the nameserver coming? :)
[01:03] <Mithrandir> ogra: no, what was that change?
[01:03] <ogra> they let the 'siaddr' field default to 0.0.0.0 now because of a silly interpretation of http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2131.html
[01:04] <ogra> so the world of nfs mounted root filesystems breaks completely 
[01:04] <ogra> i.e. ltsp
[01:05] <ogra> ou now have to specify an IP for the next-server directive ....
[01:06] <Mithrandir> that's an entirely reasonable interpretation, imo
[01:06] <ogra> and i try to consider how evil it is to patch our dhcpd to have an option like "next-server self;" that restores the old behavior
[01:07] <Mithrandir> that would mean it broke if you had a machine named self
[01:07] <ogra> its evil if you rely on the tftpd being the nfs server like it was the last $n years
[01:07] <ogra> i dont instist on "self" 
[01:07] <Diziet> robot101: I've been a bit busy the last few months :-).
[01:07] <ogra> might also be a completely different name for the option, the patch would be a 4 line if construct
[01:08] <Mithrandir> I've routinely run setups where dhcp, tftp and nfs server have been three different servers.
[01:08] <Robot101> Diziet: hmm, snap :)
[01:08] <Robot101> argh
[01:08] <ogra> ah, k ... so you always had set the next-server anyway
[01:09] <Robot101> why did you give me a session for the front page, so that after I put my flight details in, you give me an expired session page
[01:09] <Robot101> bastards
[01:10] <Mithrandir> I have, yes, but I see that your point makes sense in small setups.
[01:10] <ogra> it breaks nearly all ltsp setups in the world :)
[01:10] <ogra> not only ours 
[01:10] <ogra> and the rfc doesnt talk anywhere about zeroing the value, so i dont understand the dcision to change it at all
[01:11] <Diziet> Why not fix the dhcpd to DTRT again ?
[01:11] <ogra> but i know the ltsp guys have heavily argued with dhcp upstream who insists it must be 0.0.0.0
[01:11] <Mithrandir> can't we ask dhcp upstream to have something like next-server self?
[01:12] <ogra> Diziet, because i didnt know how evil it would be, thats why i'm asking here ;)
[01:12] <Diziet> I'm a bit of an RFC-laywer.  Where can I read the discussion with upstream ?
[01:12] <ogra> Diziet, i'll ask jammcq if he'S up (US eastern)
[01:13] <ogra> he had that discussion
[01:13] <Diziet> Um, I don't want to have the discussion again.  I want to read it.
[01:13] <Diziet> Please don't tell me it was on IRC.
[01:13] <ogra> i dont think so, but i dont know on which ML it was
[01:13] <infinity> A DHCP server may return its own address in the
[01:13] <infinity>    'siaddr' field, if the server is prepared to supply the next
[01:13] <infinity>    bootstrap service (e.g., delivery of an operating system executable
[01:13] <infinity>    image).
[01:13] <ogra> or if it was private mail traffic with them
[01:13] <infinity> (bot not if it isn't) <-- My emphasis.
[01:14] <infinity> dhcpd has no way of knowing it's also a valid tftp server, unless you tell it that it is.
[01:14] <infinity> (ie: by setting next-server)
[01:14] <Diziet> Right, so how do we tell the dhcpd ?
[01:14] <ogra> DHCP clarifies the interpretation of the 'siaddr' field as the
[01:14] <ogra>    address of the server to use in the next step of the client's
[01:14] <ogra>    bootstrap process.  A DHCP server may return its own address in the
[01:14] <ogra>    'siaddr' field, if the server is prepared to supply the next
[01:14] <ogra>    bootstrap service (e.g., delivery of an operating system executable
[01:14] <ogra>    image).  A DHCP server always returns its own address in the 'server
[01:14] <Diziet> So the only change upstream is that they changed the default not to set siaddr.
[01:14] <ogra>    identifier' option.
[01:14] <ogra> from http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc2131.html
[01:14] <infinity> ogra : I just qupted that same paragraph, dude.
[01:14] <infinity> quoted, too.
[01:15] <ogra> infinity, nope, you missed the last sentence :)
[01:15] <Diziet> `siaddr' != `server identifier option'
[01:15] <infinity> ogra : "May (blah blah) if (blah blah)."  Your if statement isn't true (as far as dhcpd is concenred)
[01:15] <ogra> :)
[01:16] <infinity> ogra : What Diziet said.  siaddr and server identifier are two different things.  The latter ends up in the lease just fine with dhcpd3.
[01:16] <ogra> but it doesnt say it must be zeroed
[01:16] <infinity> May return it's own address IF...
[01:16] <Diziet> Well what else should it be set to ?
[01:16] <infinity> You can read that backwards as "may NOT return its own address if NOT..."
[01:16] <ogra> the server address, like it was the last years
[01:16] <Mithrandir> ogra: it would be worse if it was a random address, wouldn't it?
[01:16] <Diziet> I'm afraid I think I agree with upstream.
[01:16] <ogra> Mithrandir, sure, thats not my point
[01:17] <infinity> ogra : Seriously, patch dhcpd3 to allow a keyword for "my-own-ip", and use that for next-server, and you're set.
[01:17] <Diziet> OTOH you might well say that `usually in our installation the dhcp server is also the tftp server so we will set siaddr to our own host by default'.
[01:17] <Mithrandir> what infty says.
[01:17] <ogra> infinity, thanks, thats an answer i was looking for :)
[01:17] <Diziet> But what infinity suggests is sane too.
[01:17] <infinity> ogra : Telling upstream their interpretation of the RFC is wrong is.. Well.. Wrong.  Saying they can't fix implementation bugs on major version increases is also wrong, no matter how much it hurts you.
[01:17] <ogra> i just wanted o know how evil it would be 
[01:18] <Diziet> infinity: Note that the RFC just says how a specific server should behave.
[01:18] <Diziet> It doesn't say what the default for an implementation should be.
[01:18] <ogra> exactly ...
[01:18] <ogra> and breaking behavior lots of people rely on is evil imho
[01:18] <infinity> I read that as "if siaddr is set to your own IP, and you're NOT a valid bootstrap server, you're doing the wrong thing"
[01:18] <Diziet> So I think making the default be the way it used to be would be justifiable if we think that it's usually (or nearly always) the case that `we' are the next-server.
[01:18] <maswan> IMO the ltsp install/config stuff should explicitly set next-server
[01:18] <Diziet> infinity: Indeed, yes.
[01:18] <infinity> Which means dhcpd2 on all servers without tftp images is "wrong.
[01:19] <Mithrandir> in other news, unionfs vs devmapper on the live cd is 326 vs 367 seconds before the system settles.
[01:19] <ogra> maswan, sure, thats ok for new installs
[01:19] <Diziet> But _who_ is doing the wrong thing ?  The dhcpd admin or the software implementor ?
[01:19] <maswan> ogra: And if you do a major version upgrade, you're going to upgrade the config stuff too, right?
[01:19] <ogra> nope
[01:19] <ogra> why should  i
[01:20] <infinity> Diziet : There are more dhcp servers out there that aren't tftp setups, so I'd say the defalt in 3.x is correct, not 2.x
[01:20] <Diziet> The other question is: what harm does it do to put a value there if it should be 0.0.0.0 ?
[01:20] <ogra> the ip and range for thin clients didnt change on an upgrade, i wont touch the admins config
[01:20] <infinity> Diziet : Explicitely having to blank next-server to be "correct" seems more wrong than having to set it if you need it.
[01:20] <Mithrandir> Diziet: system which uses it if it's set but acts differently if it's unset?
[01:21] <Diziet> mithrandir: Well, yes, but, which systems are those ?
[01:21] <Mithrandir> say, a thick client which can boot off netboot or local media, deciding based on if nextaddr is set.
[01:21] <Mithrandir> next-server, sorry
[01:21] <infinity> Well, most won't act without also having a filename to act on.
[01:21] <Diziet> filename> Indeed so.
[01:21] <Diziet> (Although I have some X terminals here that have their own idea of filename.)
[01:21] <infinity> But some older UNIX workstations may have defaulted to a default filename (I think my Alpha system did)
[01:22] <Mithrandir> sun sparcstations look for their hostaddr
[01:22] <infinity> Right.
[01:22] <Diziet> I think that particularly for old installations changing the behaviour is wrong.
[01:22] <Diziet> Perhaps we should revert upstream's patch to the code but make the default config file set it to 0.0.0.0.
[01:22] <infinity> Well, we're not forcing the upgrade on anyone, are we?
[01:23] <infinity> ogra : Are you forcing the 2.0 -> 3.0 upgrade with edubuntu-meta?
[01:23] <infinity> ogra : If so, you pretty much have to take care of tailoring the config.
[01:23] <Mithrandir> grrr, why did nautilus change behaviour to spatial again?
[01:23] <ogra> nope, but a a dist upgrade will bring you 3.0.3
[01:23] <infinity> In general, I figure when you do major version upgrades and sometihng changes behaviour, you get to keep both pieces.
[01:23] <infinity> But if we're forcing it...
[01:24] <ogra> infinity, ubuntu never had 2.0
[01:24] <infinity> ogra : Oh, is this a change in 3.x -> 3.x?
[01:24] <ogra> the change was from 3.0.2 -> 3.0.3
[01:24] <infinity> ogra : If so, that's a different matter.  I thought it was 2.x -> 3.x
[01:24] <ogra> nope
[01:24] <Diziet> The other advantage of putting the code back and doing it in the config file is that the config file has something in it telling the admin what's wron.g
[01:24] <infinity> Then you can definitely argue for backward compatibility issues...
[01:24] <ogra> yup
[01:25] <Diziet> It's possible that upstream might even agree with our approach (even though they can't easily do it themselves).
[01:25] <infinity> Although, there are other options.
[01:25] <infinity> Like adding a '--quirks' switch to dhcpd to makes it behave like << 3.0.3, so you can update the init script and not touch the config. :)
[01:25] <Diziet> Urgh.
[01:26] <infinity> I knew you'd like that.
[01:26] <ogra> lol
[01:26] <infinity> I still prefer upstream's (current) reading of the RFC, that's my main problem.
[01:26] <Mithrandir> heh
[01:26] <Diziet> infinity: Yes, I agree with you about the RFC.
[01:26] <infinity> Asking them to maintain backward compatibility with what I believe is a bug just goes against my principles.
[01:26] <Diziet> But with my approach in new tftpless installations we'll be complying with it.
[01:27] <ogra> i think a "my-own-ip" setting is the best for now ...
[01:27] <Diziet> It's only a bug in some systems.
[01:27] <Diziet> That is, if it's a bug it's at least as much a _configuration bug_ as a code bug.
[01:27] <ogra> Diziet, it affects a whole category of systems 
[01:27] <ogra> (ltsp)
[01:27] <Diziet> ogra: No, those systems are exactly those where it's _not_ a bug.
[01:27] <ogra> not only in ubuntu that is
[01:27] <infinity> ogra : Yes, he was suggesting you put the old feature back (so old installations work), and in new non-ltsp setups, we set next-server to 0.0.0.0
[01:28] <infinity> ogra : Achieving the same effect, but without breaking upgrades...
[01:28] <Diziet> That is, if we use the new upstream behaviour in an LTSP server then the LTSP server's dhcpd is now not complying with the RFC properly.
[01:28] <ogra> hmm, that would mean to divert from debian, config wise .... while the my-own-ip thing would just add an option on our side ...
[01:29] <Diziet> The my-own-ip thing will still break old installs, surely ?
[01:29] <infinity> ogra : I think the keyword would be useful anyway, to be honest.
[01:29] <infinity> But yes, you'd need to sed old installs.
[01:29] <Diziet> keyword useful anyway> That's true.
[01:30] <ogra> ok, i think i'll go this path ...
[01:30] <Diziet> Which path ?
[01:30] <Diziet> ogra: Surely we can convince Debian that this is the Right thing to do ?
[01:30] <Diziet> I note that my own dhcpd here will be broken by this change.
[01:30] <ogra> for our ltsp there is nothing to sed, since we additionally source a different config on boot, so it can be set in the default config file if not modified
[01:31] <Diziet> So if it breaks I'll file a bug in and 5-10 years it will be closed because it was only a compatibility problem :-).
[01:31] <Diziet> ogra: Ah, right.
[01:31] <ogra> mdz implemented that very legant :)
[01:31] <ogra> *elegant
[01:32] <ogra> Mithrandir, its in there ... in dapper ... indeed, if i revert or change it, i'll note it there
[01:32] <infinity> ogra : If you're going to add a keyword, I'd discuss it with ISC folks, and see if we can settle on a keyword they'd like (or if there's one already you don't know about)
[01:32] <Diziet> ogra: Well, don't forget to send your patches etc. to the Debian BTS with an explanation.  Spin it so that `this is the right way for us to comply with upstream's correct interpretation of the RFC'.
[01:33] <infinity> dhcpd.conf allows for conditionals and some limited subtitution, so it sould already be there.
[01:33] <ogra> Diziet, yup
[01:33] <infinity> s/sould/could/
[01:33] <ogra> infinity, its not, i just have the debdiff in front of me ...
[01:34] <ogra>         /* Figure out the address of the boot file server. */
[01:34] <ogra> -       raw.siaddr = from;
[01:34] <infinity> For instance, you may find that plugging in something like "next-server server-identifier" Just Works.
[01:34] <ogra> and 
[01:34] <ogra> -       memcpy (&state -> siaddr, state -> from.iabuf, sizeof state -> siaddr);
[01:34] <ogra> +       memset (&state -> siaddr, 0, sizeof state -> siaddr);
[01:34] <ogra> thats all
[01:34] <infinity> ogra : No, I mean the ability to substitute keywords may already be there in the config parser.
[01:35] <ogra> at least is wasnt added when they changed to zeros ...
[01:35] <ogra> i'll inspect some more
[01:43] <Mithrandir> dholbach: your feeling that the new live cd is a bit quicker is confirmed.. look at the bootcharts on http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/live-bootcharts/
[01:45] <Kinnison> ooh, 30 seconds faster
[01:45] <ogra> that really depends ...
[01:46] <ogra> you had user input before .... so this depended n the speed you hit the keys :)
[01:46] <Kinnison> true
[01:47] <dholbach> Mithrandir: you guys rock!
[01:47] <ogra> thats an argument i have with the ltsp guys all the time.... "why do you only measure with bootchart and not include the bios" .... ally my netboot machines have a menu ;)
[01:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: no.  That's devmapper vs unionfs on the new setup in both cases.
[01:48] <ogra> ah, k
[01:48] <Mithrandir> ogra: http://err.no/tmp/dapper-classic-livecd.png is the classic one, but it stops where init starts
[01:50] <Mithrandir> ogra: so, 22 secs off before getting to init, and I'm quick with cdebconf. :-)
[01:50] <ogra> thats the time i need to boot an ltsp client here :)
[01:50] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png
[01:50] <BenC> pitti: still around?
[01:50] <Mithrandir> ogra: you're not completely logged in at the end there.
[01:51] <ogra> nope, thats to the login screen ...
[01:51] <Mithrandir> ogra: .. and you don't reconfigure X and similar stuff, so it's not a very fair comparison. :-)
[01:51] <ogra> sure i do
[01:51] <ogra> i do the same as you do ...
[01:52] <pitti> Hi BenC, yes, I am
[01:52] <pitti> BenC: good morning :)
[01:52] <ogra> Mithrandir, ltsp does a complete hardware detection and X configuration on boot
[01:52] <BenC> pitti: good moring :)
[01:52] <pitti> BenC: I made some comments to #5049
[01:52] <Mithrandir> ogra: I can't see any dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg in your bootchart?
[01:53] <ogra> Mithrandir, S32
[01:53] <pitti> BenC: I would appreciate your estimation whether this could/should be fixed at the kernel level or if we rather do an userspace workaroud
[01:53] <BenC> pitti: ok, reading now...
[01:55] <BenC> pitti: There's a third option, and that's to evaluate the scsi commands and see if it's an eject command, and if it is, bypass the priv check
[01:55] <Mithrandir> ogra: ah
[01:55] <BenC> pitti: brb (10 minutes)
[01:55] <pitti> BenC: hm, but shoudl normal users be able to eject internal SCSI drives? can that be used for hotswappable drives, or so?
[01:58] <Mithrandir> pitti: given an incomplete language specification, say de or nb, what's the easiest way for me to make that into a sensible keymap and locale?
[01:59] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: there is none ('nl' uses US keymaps, for example)
[01:59] <pitti> Mithrandir: hm, it's not actually possible to map 'de' to a locale
[01:59] <Mithrandir> pitti: but I need to do that, for the live cd. :-)
[02:00] <pitti> Mithrandir: only as a default? there must be questions about country and keyboard anyway
[02:00] <ogra> Mithrandir, why incomplete, Xog uses only de and not the locale setting ...
[02:00] <ogra> *Xorg
[02:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: you could arbitrarily pick any locale, probably the one of the biggest country 
[02:01] <Mithrandir> ogra: because it's what I get from the bootloader, and it's not a complete locale spec?
[02:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: taking de_DE.UTF-8 for de is still somewhat reasonable
[02:01] <pitti> Mithrandir: but it gets impossible for pt or zh
[02:01] <Mithrandir> pitti: hmm, I guess there's no file with that information, is there?
[02:02] <pitti> Mithrandir: the problem is not the lack of a file
[02:02] <ogra> dont we have locale.alias ? 
[02:02] <pitti> it's a conceptual impossibliity
[02:02] <ogra> that should have a mapping
[02:02] <pitti> a language simply does  not coincide to any particular locale
[02:02] <Mithrandir> pitti: in a lot of cases, it does.
[02:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: ok, a proposal:
[02:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: when there is only one country for a locale, use  that
[02:03] <pitti> Mithrandir: and if not, ask a second question, just as the installer does
[02:03] <pitti> and you need a question for the keyboard layout anyway
[02:03] <pitti> we alredy tried to eliminate the keyboard questions in the warty days
[02:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: I can't ask any questions
[02:04] <pitti> and were taught of that being wrong the hard way
[02:04] <pitti> Mithrandir: I thought you already ask for the langauge?
[02:04] <Mithrandir> pitti: no, the bootloader asks
[02:04] <pitti> ah, I see
[02:05] <pitti> well, then the bootloader needs to grow these questions
[02:05] <Mithrandir> "I" am casper here.
[02:05] <pitti> heh :)
[02:06] <pitti> Mithrandir: so we won't use the reduced base-config on the live cd any more, as in breezy?
[02:06] <Mithrandir> pitti: as of Flight 2, we don't have any d-i bits in the live cd.
[02:07] <pitti> Mithrandir: well, then the only temporary kludge I can think of is to grep the first matching locale out of /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED, and use the keyboard layout that matches the language
[02:07] <Mithrandir> pitti: this is why flight 2 works so differently and is scary.
[02:08] <pitti> this is horribly wrong for many cases, but at least you can get the further bits going
[02:08] <pitti> and we need to fix gfxboot later
[02:08] <pitti> Mithrandir: just pretend for now that you would get the country and the keyboard layout from the boot loader
[02:08] <pitti> hi jbailey 
[02:09] <Mithrandir> pitti: I guess so
[02:09] <jbailey> g'm Martin
[02:09] <jbailey> I'm clearly still tired.  I looked at the topic, saw the "5.10 released" and thought "What?  Really?"
[02:09] <pitti> Mithrandir: '$ grep ^de_ /usr/share/i18n/SUPPORTED | head -1' delivers de_AT.UTF-8 UTF-8
[02:10] <Mithrandir> pitti: does that mean all you german german users will come after me? :-)
[02:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: that's wrong for the majority of German speaking people, but it's not so horribly bad to make the test CD unusalbe
[02:10] <pitti> Mithrandir: I think this grep approach is good enough for the next days until gfxboot grows country/keyboard questions
[02:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'd rather be afraid of all the Taiwanese users who get a Chinese locale
[02:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: this is something you can really piss of users with :)
[02:11] <Mithrandir> they're farther away than you Germans. :-)
[02:11] <pitti> lol
[02:11] <Mithrandir> so I have more time to fix it
[02:11] <pitti> Mithrandir: I'd rather haunt you for getting a German keyboard (I use an US layout)
[02:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: there's no way for me to actually get locale definitions installed into the system now?  As in, without installing packages?
[02:12] <pitti> but gnome makes it easy enough to switch, so I don't mind
[02:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: no, unfortunately not
[02:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: we will have a discussion about this on Monday 1500 UTC
[02:12] <Mithrandir> pitti: I shall nag you then, I guess
[02:12] <pitti> Mithrandir: AFAICS we will probably move them back to locales
[02:12] <Mithrandir> that would be nice for the live cd
[02:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: it requires to rebuild all language packs, that's why it is nontrivial ATM
[02:13] <pitti> but let's wait for the discussion outcome
[02:13] <Mithrandir> sure
[02:13] <pitti> Mithrandir: maybe you can join next Monday?
[02:13] <azeem> jbailey: I have a CDBS issue.  I want to not build one package which is referenced in debian/control, without fiddling with control, by just telling CDBS not to run the debhelper scripts for that package and not create the .deb.  Is that possible?
[02:14] <Mithrandir> pitti: I'll be around, yes.
[02:14] <infinity> DH_OPTIONS=-npackage
[02:14] <infinity> (At a guess)
[02:14] <infinity> (Not a CDBS user)
[02:15] <infinity> Oh, but CDBS does everything per-package, doesn't it, with -ppackage..
[02:15] <infinity> I suppose -ppackage -npackage could royally confuse debhelper.
[02:16] <azeem> infinity: I'll try that, thanks
[02:16] <azeem> I looked for a CDBS variable for that, and overlooked that debhelper has one already
[02:22] <maswan> dholbach: thanks for the test protocol suggestions, found lots of bugs
[02:22] <BenC> pitti: I'm trying to compare the scsi commands that eject -s sends compared to the commands that CDROMEJECT sends
[02:23] <BenC> obviously CDROMEJECT is more geared toward cdrom type devices, so that probably explains the issue
[02:23] <BenC> maybe we should have a DISKEJECT or GENERICEJECT ioctl aswell
[02:23] <dholbach> maswan: cool :)
[02:24] <BenC> eject -s sends 2 commands (one request first for ALLOW_MEDIUM_REMOVAL)
[02:26] <BenC> I see the difference, cdrom eject only sends the second command that eject -s sends
[02:26] <BenC> it doesn't send the first
[02:26] <maswan> dholbach: How strict should I be in applying a Y/N for Current?
[02:26] <pitti> BenC: oh, but internally they are actually similar/the same?
[02:27] <pitti> BenC: that's interesting
[02:27] <BenC> yes
[02:27] <dholbach> maswan: those Y/N are more for the installation methods, but if you found grave bugs, just use an 'N'
[02:27] <BenC> maybe I should make cdrom eject more like eject -s
[02:27] <maswan> dholbach: installs with issues is a Y?
[02:27] <dholbach> did the installation go wrong?
[02:27] <seb128> what is Y and N?
[02:28] <dholbach> seb128: http://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Current
[02:28] <BenC> pitti: one thing that confuses me about the bug report is somone actually said they needed eject -s for an IDE cdrom :/
[02:28] <seb128> dholbach: oh, k
[02:28] <maswan> The installation worked, most significant bugs were two of the known issues (resolution and network)
[02:28] <maswan> dholbach: So I'm guessing Y
[02:28] <dholbach> yeah
[02:28] <dholbach> i substracted the known issues, when i wrote 'Y'
[02:29] <dholbach> :)
[02:29] <azeem> infinity: right, that don't work, it says "dh_installdirs: I have no package to build"
[02:29] <dholbach> maswan: thanks for doing this seriously
[02:29] <BenC> pitti: unless they had ide-scsi enabled
[02:30] <infinity> azeem : Yeah, I figured it might blow up, because of CDBS's love of doing each package on its own.
[02:30] <pitti> elmo: can you please sync make?
[02:30] <jbailey> azeem: You need to override the package list variable.
[02:30] <jbailey> azeem: I suspect that ought to be enough.
[02:31] <BenC> pitti: Would you be willing to test a kernel?
[02:31] <pitti> BenC: sure
[02:31] <BenC> pitti: if so, what arch-flavour do you run?
[02:31] <pitti> BenC: but I have to return the device tomorrow
[02:31] <pitti> BenC: amd64-generic
[02:31] <BenC> I can have the build done in about 45 minutes, is that ok?
[02:31] <pitti> BenC: that would rock :)
[02:31] <azeem> jbailey: DEB_PACKAGES?  I tried, but either I did it wrong, or it did not take effect.  Duck said you need to frob it internally
[02:31] <BenC> ok
[02:31] <azeem> well, DEB_*_PACKAGES, really
[02:32] <jbailey> azeem: It's possible.  Been a while since I've looked at that part of the code, and I've never wanted to just do this on its own.
[02:32] <pitti> BenC: I have to leave in 2.5 hours, so that should be fine
[02:32] <azeem> ok, I'll look deeper then, thanks
[02:32] <maswan> dholbach: Oops. I just read that Current Test CD: Flight CD1, I've been testing flight-2. Or should that perhaps be updated?
[02:32] <dholbach> maswan: the latter :)
[02:32] <pitti> BenC: I agree, the eject failure for proper CD-ROMs is frightening
[02:33] <pitti> BenC: From what I have heard, it affects 'multi-mode' or 'enhanced' CDs, whatever that is
[02:33] <Mithrandir> maswan: flight 2 is out, yes.
[02:33] <dholbach> changed it
[02:34] <maswan> Mithrandir: Well, I know that, just worried about messing up the test protocol thingie for flight-1
[02:35] <Nafallo> :-)
[02:35] <seb128> infinity: could you give a retry to eds build?
[02:35] <seb128> evolution-data-server
[02:35] <Nafallo> I'll take that as a hug ;-)
[02:35] <dholbach> take it as thou wilt
[02:35] <Mithrandir> dholbach: licking his face and stuff?  :-)
[02:35] <dholbach> :)
[02:36] <Nafallo> hehe
[02:43] <mjg59> seb128: New nautilus just crashes repeatedly for me
[02:44] <mjg59> seb128: (Again, partial upgrade)
[02:44] <seb128> what version of nautilus/eel ?
[02:44] <mjg59> Nautilus 2.13.3-0ubuntu2
[02:44] <Amaranth> oh, that reminds me
[02:44] <mjg59> eel didn't get upgraded
[02:44] <seb128> eel never got an ABI stability garanty upstream which is a pain
[02:44] <Amaranth> i think it was pango that needed the new glib but didn't depend on it
[02:45] <mjg59> seb128: eel is currently 2.12.1
[02:45] <seb128> mjg59: I guess we should make nautilus Depends on libeel2-2 (<< next-version)
[02:46] <mjg59> seb128: Possibly libeel2-2=current-version
[02:46] <seb128> there is no current-version
[02:46] <mjg59> Oh - where's it built from?
[02:46] <seb128> I mean, we have to specify the Debian revision if we do that, no?
[02:46] <Amaranth> seb128: should the new libeel conflict the old nautilus?
[02:46] <seb128> we don't want to rebuild nautilus every time we upload a Debian revision of eel
[02:46] <mjg59> seb128: Oh, nngh. Yeah.
[02:47] <mjg59> seb128: Ok, upgrading eel has got me to the point where nautilus opens a window and then crashes
[02:47] <seb128> Amaranth: no, that is evil
[02:47] <seb128> mjg59: does it crash 2 times in a row or it was still running previous eel?
[02:47] <mjg59> seb128: Several times in a row
[02:47] <seb128> other libs are supposed to be ABI compatible
[02:47] <seb128> do you have a backtrace?
[02:48] <mjg59> (nautilus:14070): libgnomevfs-WARNING **: Cannot load module `/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libmapping.so' (/usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libmapping.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory)
[02:48] <mjg59> Is the only console output
[02:48] <seb128> hum
[02:48] <seb128> this is from ncb
[02:48] <seb128> but it should not crash nautilus
[02:48] <mjg59> ncb?
[02:48] <seb128> a bt would be nice
[02:48] <seb128> nautilus-cd-burner: /usr/lib/gnome-vfs-2.0/modules/libmapping.so
[02:49] <mjg59> seb128: Ok, how can I generate one? Just from gdb?
[02:49] <seb128> click on the "send upstream" dialog from bug-buddy
[02:49] <seb128> or gdb
[02:49] <seb128> thread apply all bt 
[02:50] <mjg59> seb128: Ok. You want a bug, or shall I just C&P to you?
[02:50] <seb128> copy on pastebin.com please
[02:51] <seb128> so I can figure if the bug is known
[02:51] <mjg59> http://pastebin.com/465198
[02:54] <StevenK> But IRC works, which just makes me curious why nothing else does.
[02:54] <seb128> mjg59: bug is not known ... could you get a backtrace with libgnomevfs2-0-dbg libglib2.0-0-dbg nautilus-dbg installed and open a bug?
[02:56] <mjg59> Sure
[02:57] <mjg59> seb128: Will our nautilus use the beagle search functionality, or does it just use the dumb indexer?
[02:58] <seb128> we will try the first one
[02:58] <seb128> by need to get libbeagle splitted properly to start
[02:58] <mjg59> Is it a build-time thing?
[02:58] <seb128> then pitti to promote it
[02:58] <seb128> yep
[02:58] <mjg59> Shame
[02:58] <seb128> we don't have to Depends on beagle
[02:58] <seb128> but we have to link with libbeagle
[02:58] <mjg59> Ok
[02:59] <mjg59> seb128: It looks like nautilus_file_get_volume
[02:59] <seb128> I'm wondering if that can be a dbus/hal/gnomevfs versions mismatch on upgrade or something
[03:00] <mjg59> Mm.
[03:00] <mjg59> I've just upgraded g-v-m, so I have everything it dragged in
[03:00] <seb128> yeah but since we don't restart dbus on upgrade
[03:00] <Diziet> Aaargh.  Makefiles with    for file in list   instead of   set -e; for file in list    HATE HATE
[03:01] <Diziet> It's almost tempting to suggest a change to /bin/sh to make it have set -e by default for noninteractive shells.
[03:02] <mjg59> seb128: 21049
[03:03] <mjg59> seb128: Restarting dbus didn't help
[03:04] <mjg59> Let me log out and in again
[03:04] <seb128> mjg59: and killall gnome-vfs-daemon nautilus?
[03:04] <mjg59> Still broken
[03:06] <jdub> heh, wow, usplash looks pretty bad at 1920x1200!
[03:08] <mjg59> jdub: "Bad" as in "poor"?
[03:09] <mjg59> seb128: Logged out, in, still broken
[03:09] <ogra> bad as in t small i guess
[03:09] <jdub> pixels like shipping crates
[03:09] <maswan> jdub: default session looks pretty awful at 1024x768 software-scaled to 1280x1024 and the hardware-scaled to 1600x1200 in the tft. :)
[03:10] <mjg59> jdub: Oh. Your laptop sucks.
[03:10] <jdub> mjg59: desktop
[03:10] <mjg59> jdub: Ah, in that case, definitely
[03:10] <mjg59> jdub: That's the argument for flat colours...
[03:10] <jdub> (are there laptops with 1920x1200?)
[03:10] <Mithrandir> jdub: yes
[03:10] <Mithrandir> jdub: Treenaks has one.
[03:10] <ogra> the one from andyfitz had this iirc
[03:11] <jdub> i would so dig a 14" widescreen 1920x1200 laptop
[03:11] <jdub> that would be elite
[03:11] <jdub> ;-)
[03:11] <mjg59> jdub: I've got a 7" that's got 1280x768
[03:11] <mjg59> So the technology exists
[03:11] <jdub> ooooh
[03:11] <jdub> what's that?
[03:11] <Kinnison> mjg59: aye, but scaling it up costs a lot
[03:11] <mjg59> Libretto U100
[03:11] <mjg59> Keyboard is unusably small
[03:11] <mjg59> But it's /very/ sweet
[03:12] <Treenaks> jdub: I have a 15.4" 1920x1200
[03:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: got any further with the tecras ?
[03:12] <mjg59> Kinnison: Which bit of them?
[03:12] <jdub> Treenaks: wow
[03:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: acpi
[03:12] <jdub> Treenaks: what is it?
[03:12] <mjg59> Kinnison: Seems fine
[03:12] <Treenaks> jdub: HP NW8240
[03:12] <Kinnison> mjg59: But no hotkeys?
[03:12] <mjg59> Kinnison: Oh, right. No, haven't had a chance to look
[03:12] <jdub> Treenaks: expensive?
[03:12] <Treenaks> jdub: LaptopTestingTeam ;)
[03:12] <mjg59> Probably need to check out the Windows driver
[03:12] <mjg59> jdub: Canonical special
[03:12] <jdub> Treenaks: ha ha! bonus!
[03:13] <Kinnison> mjg59: aye, 'cos there's no W[DM] I in there
[03:13] <jdub> you are the winner.
[03:13] <Treenaks> jdub: I like it ;)
[03:13] <Kinnison> mjg59: which tecra model was it?
[03:13] <Treenaks> tonight
[03:14] <mjg59> Kinnison: A5
[03:15] <Kinnison> mjg59: Do you happen to know if it has the latest bios on it?
[03:15] <Kinnison> http://www.csd.toshiba.com/cgi-bin/tais/su/su_sc_modItemList.jsp lists 1.90 from the 23rd November
[03:15] <mjg59> Kinnison: It's unlikely
[03:15] <mjg59> But I can probably get it upgraded
[03:16] <seb128> mjg59: are all the gnomevfs binary package uptodate? just trying to guess what could go wrong
[03:17] <mjg59> libgnomevfs2-common and libgnomevgs2-0 are up to date
[03:17] <seb128> what version of linux?
[03:18] <mjg59> 2.6.15-7
[03:18] <seb128> not that neither ...
[03:19] <mjg59> Holy god why is the Toshiba hotkey utility a 5MB zip file?
[03:19] <pitti> ogra: do you deliberately want to lock the screen whenever the screensaver activates or is that just an upstream default? I find that pretty annoying...
[03:19] <jdub> mjg59: it is their christmas present to you
[03:19] <ogra> pitti, i didnt change it ...
[03:19] <ogra> pitti, so it must be upstream ...
[03:20] <ogra> unless dholbach changed it 
[03:20] <ogra> which i doubt
[03:21] <ogra> pitti, i'll disable it in the next upload, or remid holbi to do it ;)
[03:21] <ogra> *remind
[03:27] <BenC> pitti: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bcollins/kernels/Bug-5049/
[03:31] <pitti> ogra: that would be nice, thanks
[03:31] <pitti> BenC: great, downloading now
[03:36] <pitti> BenC: so you changed the CD-ROM ioctl to behave similarly to the scsi one?
[03:36] <BenC> yeah
[03:36] <BenC> added the first cmd
[03:36] <BenC> I can do the same for ide
[03:36] <BenC> (this is for scsi)
[03:37] <pitti> BenC: hmm, ide, that could be relevant for internal card readers or ZIP drives?
[03:37] <BenC> yeah
[03:38] <BenC> it sends the same command, but, like scsi, only sends the second
[03:38] <BenC> basically a START_STOP command, with argument of 0x2 is what the CDROMEJECT sends, and eject -s sends 0x01 then 0x02
[03:39] <BenC> that's the only difference I saw
[03:39] <BenC> eject -s also sends an ALLOWED_TO_REMOVE command, but I don't think that's relevant (though I could add it aswell to the ioctl)
[03:39] <pitti> BenC: could that have any unintentional side effect, like disabling internal scsi drives?
[03:40] <BenC> perhaps I should do the allowed-to-remove request
[03:40] <BenC> ALLOW_MEDIUM_REMOVAL
[03:41] <BenC> if that fails, then just error out of the ioctl
[03:41] <pitti> sounds good
[03:41] <pitti> I reboot now, brb
[03:45] <pitti> BenC: eject: trying to eject `/dev/sda1' using CD-ROM eject command
[03:45] <pitti> eject: CD-ROM eject command failed
[03:46] <pitti> BenC: still no luck :(
[03:46] <BenC> pitti: hmm
[03:46] <BenC> what about /dev/sda?
[03:46] <BenC> shouldn't make a difference, but this thing is whacky
[03:47] <pitti> BenC: same result
[03:47] <BenC> pitti: thanks, guess it's back t the drawing board
[03:47] <pitti> BenC: same with my small python script that just does the ioctl
[03:48] <pitti> ioctl(3, CDROMEJECT, 0x2aaaaadf51c0)    = -1 EIO (Input/output error)
[03:48] <BenC> who knows, maybe the ALLOW_MEDIUM_REMOVAL is needed
[03:48] <ogra> seb128, why does evo out this little clock into the notification area since yesterday ? it didnt use to before and the cloak apparently doesn nothing ..
[03:48] <ogra> s/out/put/
[03:48] <ogra> s/cloak/clock/
[03:51] <doko> pitti: please have a look at http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/p/pwlib/1.8.7-2/pwlib_1.8.7-2_20051215-1415-amd64-failed.gz (your last libsdl1.2 sync)
[03:53] <seb128> ogra: ask upstream I just package
[03:53] <seb128> ogra: it has already been bugged upstream though
[03:53] <ogra> ah,k
[03:56] <pitti> doko: this libglu1-mesa-dev failure is the same that killed the xine-lib build
[03:56] <pitti> doko: something on amd64 broke libglu1-mesa-dev
[03:56] <pitti> because the other arches work
[03:56] <doko> hmm, ok
[03:58] <elmo> how do you suspend when the option isn't in the menu?
[03:59] <jbailey> elmo: sudo echo mem >/sys/power/state
[03:59] <jbailey> elmo: If you can the file, you can see the options in there.
[03:59] <ogra> elmo, install gnome-power-manager ... or se a hammer, but that makes resume difficult
[04:00] <ogra> s/se/use
[04:01] <mjg59> elmo: Edit /etc/default/acpi-support, uncomment the second line, reboot
[04:01] <elmo> mjg59/jbailey/ogra: thanks
[04:02] <ogra> mjg59, btw, do we plan g-p-m for main ? i'd prepare a main inclusion report if you think its mature enough
[04:03] <seb128> infinity: do you know what's going on with evolution-data-server builds?
[04:03] <mjg59> ogra: Yes, I think so
[04:04] <ogra> mjg59, ok, will do then ..
[04:09] <infinity> seb128 : No, but I'm off to bed.  I'll look into it first thing in the morning and see if I can apply a hammer to it for you.
[04:09] <Mithrandir> ok, I rock.  Keyboard selection implemented in the live CD.
[04:12] <seb128> infinity: thank you
[04:13] <seb128> infinity: 'night
[04:13] <infinity> mjg59 : Pretty please, with sugar on top, can you fix acpi-support on ia64 to be installable (either by fixing vbetool, or removing it from the dep list)
[04:15] <Mithrandir> Gagatan: is it shiny?
[04:15] <Gagatan> Mithrandir: yes.. called hvafaenitt
[04:15] <Gagatan> ;)
[04:15] <Mithrandir> heh
[04:29] <\sh> *cough* g
[04:29] <\sh> 'evening
[04:35] <\sh> daniels(virtual): when are you fixing this stupid "xvfb" font path problem? :)
[05:06] <BenC> pitti: found out why the IDE thing isn't weird
[05:06] <BenC> pitti: the commands being sent aren't scsi specific, they are standard MMC commands
[05:22] <BenC> pitti: ping
[05:22] <mvo> BenC: he is away for today
[05:22] <BenC> damn, ok
[05:23] <Riddell> does ubuntu have a fax tool installed by default?
[05:31] <ogra> Riddell, nope
[05:31] <Riddell> thanks
[05:35] <ogra> Riddell, might be we consider efax one day
[05:37] <Riddell> actually I was considering removing it from kubuntu :)  but I found a way to just stop it getting in the way
[05:42] <ogra> i wonder who really still uses faxing from the pc in times of DSL ... which normal user has a modem at home nowadays
[05:42] <ogra> ?
[05:43] <BenC> can't say that I've faxed anything in quite a few years
[05:43] <BenC> scanner + email works just aswell :)
[05:43] <Robot101> I've only wanted to fax something as a result of inadequate software
[05:43] <Robot101> (eg unable to fill in a PDF form using Evince)
[05:44] <Robot101> or because of a requirement for a signature
[05:44] <Riddell> hmm, faxed signature
[05:45] <ogra> heh, common usecase *g*
[05:46] <BenC> gpg encrypted of course
[05:53] <Diziet> If OpenSSL ever gets to v3 we're going to have a soname conflict with libnss's libssl3.
[05:55] <Kinnison> heh
[05:57] <dholbach> ogra: i didnt change it
[05:58] <ogra> dholbach, thought so
[05:58] <dholbach> *nod*
[06:12] <pef> hello
[06:26] <Robot101> Diziet: what would you use as a nameserver? we're using powerdns at the moment, but we're migrating to something that pulls the records out from the database when triggered by changes, so we can write arbitary formats and swich to whatever backend we want.
[06:26] <Robot101> s/backend/nameserver/
[06:38] <neuralis> mdz: ping
[06:39] <dholbach> neuralis: he's on vacation
[06:41] <neuralis> dholbach: ah. i'll send him mail, then. thanks.
[06:42] <dholbach> de rien :)
[06:45] <Kinnison> BenC: Any clues as to what the status of this thread is? http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=linux-kernel&m=110849686819876&w=2
[06:45] <Kinnison> BenC: It's old, but seems to still be an issue in breezy
[06:45] <Diziet> robot101: What would I use ?  Now there's a question.  What I _am_ using is BIND8 (urgh shudder yuk).
[06:46] <Diziet> My nameserver has the internal structure to do just what you want but of course it's not finished.
[06:46] <Diziet> And at current rate of progress it will `be a while', as they say.
[06:54] <Robot101> Diziet: so the answer is, there isn't a good one... which is why you're writing one? :)
[06:57] <Robot101> Diziet: bind8 is the least bad? :(
[07:00] <ogra> seb128, does our rhythmbox already write audio CDs ? 
[07:01] <dholbach> ogra: should, yes
[07:02] <ogra> so about time to drop serpentine, isnt it ? 
[07:02] <ogra> we said it should be the interim unil RB supports it at udu
[07:02] <Diziet> robot101: Well, given that I'm already running BIND8 and its deficiences are only very annoying, I think so, yes.
[07:02] <Diziet> IJLTS: Version: 2:1.firefox1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg-1ubuntu5
[07:02] <seb128> ogra: yep
[07:03] <ogra> :)
[07:03] <seb128> ogra: before 5.10 already
[07:03] <seb128> ogra: right click on a playlist
[07:03] <ogra> oh
[07:03] <ogra> i didnt know 
[07:03] <seb128> there is a menu item to write the CD
[07:03] <Diziet> Lots of people are running BIND9 and haven't died of apoplexy yet.
[07:03] <Diziet> But the sheer size of it put me off.
[07:03] <ogra> seb128, so for the sake of your simplyfied menu, droop serpentine then :)
[07:04] <seb128> ogra: that's rather for the sake of main duplication
[07:04] <ogra> additionally :)
[07:04] <dholbach> ogra: and it isn't "his" :)
[07:04] <ogra> our, sorry *g*
[07:06] <Diziet> Anyone have any idea what /usr/lib/mozilla/libnssckbi.so is ?
[07:07] <Diziet> Hrm, looks like a pkcs#11 library.  Bizarre.
[07:21] <mx|gone> is mysql5 scheduled for dapper?
[07:40] <Diziet> What does this mean:  debian/libnss3/usr/lib/libssl3.so: /usr/lib/libnss3.so: version `NSS_3.10' not found (required by debian/libnss3/usr/lib/libssl3.so)
[07:41] <Nafallo> is Keybuk on leave or something? :-)
[07:42] <Diziet> Are these usually his kind of topics ?
[07:42] <Nafallo> no, it wasn't related to you question :-).
[07:43] <Nafallo> I've just been looking for him all day ;-)
[07:48] <Mithrandir> Diziet: that you have forgotten to tell dpkg-shlibdeps to look in debian/libnss3/usr/lib for libraries as well, most likely.
[07:52] <Diziet> mithrandir: No, I don't think so, BICBW.
[08:12] <siretart> jdub: around?
[08:28] <Riddell> elmo: please sync k3b-i18n from debian
[08:36] <elmo>   k3b-i18n |   0.12.9-1 | dapper/universe | source
[08:37] <elmo> nothing to sync
[08:50] <Burgwork> elmo, whom would I speak to about the spam settings on the mailing lists?
[09:00] <seb128> BenC: around?
[09:00] <BenC> yeah
[09:01] <BenC> Kinnison: btw, read that thread. I'll check and see what N_TTY_* is set to for breezy
[09:01] <seb128> BenC: do you need people testing your patched kernel for #5049 or is martin enough? 
[09:01] <BenC> I think it should be ok, it was probably set back to 2k before 2.6.12 was released
[09:01] <BenC> anyone can
[09:01] <BenC> if you have amd64-generic :)
[09:04] <seb128> hum, in fact I've an i386 install on an amd64, I guess amd64-generic doesn't fit?
[09:04] <seb128> I also have a 5.10 amd64 on the same box, but I'm will the 2.6.15 boot with 5.10 udev/etc?
[09:13] <BenC> seb128: it has to be upgraded to atleast partially
[09:15] <seb128> BenC: k, I'll give it a try later, thank you
[09:28] <BenC> seb128: thanks for testing, I'd like to take care of that bug
[09:29] <seb128> thank you for working on it, that's a "popular" bug for some time according to the number of dups bugzilla got
[09:37] <doko> hmm, what do I do, if after a dapper upgrade firefox just opens a window: <window id="main-window"
[09:37] <doko> ^    <menu id="helpMenu"
[09:37] <doko> ----^
[09:37] <Burgwork> doko, you restarted Firefox?
[09:37] <doko> Burgwork: rebooted
[09:41] <seb128> doko: remove the translation for your locale
[09:42] <doko> yeah, I didn't like them anyway ...
[10:24] <poningru> can someone link me to a page describing the portland project?
[10:24] <mjg59> seb128: Upgrading the rest of my system made Nautilus work
[10:25] <Burgwork> poningru, http://wiki.freedesktop.org/wiki/Portland
[10:26] <poningru> thanks dude
[10:26] <seb128> mjg59: I don't like that much, have you an idea of what could had made it work?
[10:27] <mjg59> seb128: Not really I'm afraid, no
[10:29] <seb128> mjg59: thanks anyway, we have the debug backtrace and we can try to do partial upgrade to notice if that's reproducible
[11:35] <lathiat> lamont: main inclusion report, security review, etc
[11:35] <tseng> lamont: you need a wiki page called PackageMainInclusionReport linked from the queue
[11:36] <tseng> lamont: pitti will review it for security/maintainability
[11:45] <lamont> linked from what queue?
[11:46] <tseng> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuMainInclusionQueue
[11:46] <lamont> hrm.. it delivers no libraries, so I _guess_ it's complient with the debian library packaging guide... :-)
[11:47] <tseng> haha
[11:47] <tseng> i just hit a DD with that same guide
[11:47] <tseng> go go "beagle-dev"
[11:47] <lamont> tseng: is the queue normally append-to-end?
[11:47] <lamont> "Hold any necessary discussion on `ubuntu-devel`"
[11:47] <lamont> hrm... any discussion?
[11:47] <tseng> lamont: you report to the bottom of "Unreviewed packages"
[11:48] <tseng> pitti normally leaves you a note right on the page
[11:48] <tseng> if there is a problem
[11:50] <ajmitch> tseng: you've talked with him about beagle-dev now?
[11:50] <tseng> i am waiting for bts to process my bug
[11:50] <ajmitch> aha
[11:50] <tseng> he takes too long to reply to my email
[11:51] <tseng> and he doesnt irc afaict
[11:51] <tseng> i talked to him on irc exactly once
[11:51] <ajmitch> not often, anyway
[11:51] <tseng> Bug#343542
[11:52] <ajmitch> tseng: what severity?
[11:52] <tseng> normal
[12:01] <dholbach> heya jdub: what do you think about adding mdke's blog to planet?
[12:01] <mdke> dholbach, i appreciate the effort, but planet is broken :(
[12:02] <dholbach> you should be on it anyways, if it works or no :)
[12:02] <mdke> dholbach, the mechanism for adding people is broken...
[12:02] <dholbach> oh hm well, then, hm