/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/20/#ubuntu-meeting.txt

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pittiHi08:59
JaneWhello09:00
dholbachhi09:00
jbailey*yawn*09:00
dokogood morning09:00
JaneWjbailey: what's the time there?09:00
jbailey03h0009:00
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JaneWouch09:00
danielskamion's our glorious leader today, innit?09:00
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JaneWyup09:01
JaneWso should be swift and to the point \0/09:01
pittijbailey: you would certainly agree to shifting the whole cycle 3 hours backwards, right? :)09:01
danielsJaneW: you appear to have an overly big head ;)09:01
danielspitti: no way man, that means I get meetings at 040009:01
jbaileypitti: I don't see how it would matter.  It would just make the next one 4am, wouldn't it?09:02
jbaileyOr is it a 6 hours rotation?09:02
JaneWit was 4am for me last week :P09:02
JaneWis kamion here yet?09:02
dokodaniels: you don't have meetings at 4am? we should change that ;-P09:02
jbaileypitti: My goal is to go out dancing on these nights and do my update from my 770 at some access point.09:02
dokoKamion has vacations?09:02
infinityYes.09:03
danielsdoko: no tany more I don't09:03
infinityAnd if you try to take them away from him, he WILL hurt you.09:03
danielsjbailey: six-hour rotation09:03
pittijbailey: great idea09:03
Mithrandirinfinity: he was going to show up today for the meeting, AIUI.09:03
JaneWI shall start with my best BenC impersonation...09:03
ogra*yawn*09:04
JaneWBenC Hey. I don't think I'm going to be able to stay awake another 1.5 hours09:04
JaneWBenC here's my status:09:04
JaneWBenC * Major work this past week: Processed over 400 bugs on the kernel (all of them), closing ~175 (either by fixing, confirming they were fixed or closing because of inactivity). Needed this to be done before Flight 2 so that it was easier to process incoming bug reports.09:04
JaneWBenC * testing-server-hardware: Not started: Need to begin putting together the test suite.09:04
JaneWBenC * preventing-hardware-support-regressions: BLOCKED: Automated build system is under development. However, the free space on concordia is not stable enough to use (fluctuates daily). Current i386 build environment takes 3+Gigs (build+git-repo+ccache).09:04
JaneWBenC * ubuntu-server-kernel: In progress: Mostly done. Just need to add a server target for non-i386 architectures. These are much more simplistic than than the i386 kernels. Should be included with the next kernel upload (2.6.15-9.11).09:04
JaneWeveryone happy with that?09:04
infinityEcstatic.09:05
JaneWdaniels: you want me to cut and paste you too?09:05
danielsyeah :)09:05
danielsta09:05
JaneWdaniels: this week: xorg rc3, fix a few FTBFSes, chase down bizzare xorg-server bug that makes it unusable on i810, start on making xserver-xorg maintainer scripts more clear, fix xvfb bugs, take the plunge and upgrade to udev new world order09:06
JaneWnext week: leave tomorrow, fix xorg-server harder, continue on making scripts clear09:06
JaneWx-roadmap: keep on truckin'09:06
JaneWblocked: none09:06
JaneWxorg-server bug  -- core server bug that renders the whole thing unusable, and the inbuilt backtrace stuff doesn't give any BT at all, and gdb hangs when I attempt to attach to it.  \o/09:06
JaneWx-raodmap: Mostly there, just tracking continued version updates.  keep on truckin'09:06
danielsyeah, so that makes the server a no-go for now.  i'm trying to track it down with the other upstream guys at the moment.09:06
JaneWI know, why don;t I just do the meeting on my own!09:06
infinityJaneW : Sure, I'll /msg you my update. :)09:06
danielsrelease roadmap for xorg has us doing rc4 ... right now, actually, otherwise known as 'rc seriously'.09:06
JaneWdaniels: that sounds pretty bad, is there a resolution in sight?09:07
dokodaniels: do you know the status of the name sync of the gl/glu packages in unstable/dapper?09:07
danielsso we should be done with that fairly soon.  so hopefully the server will be fixed, which will fix a whole lot of bugs people are currently blaming on nautilus, and then I can get to fixing the scripts.09:07
danielsJaneW: yeah, it's only within the last two weeks, so we've got a fairly small target in terms of finding the culprit.09:07
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JaneWdaniels: ok good09:07
infinitydaniels : Oh, also, xserver-common needs to get built from somewhere other than xorg sources.  The core -> common dep was stuck in as a stopgap because the world broke without it.09:07
JaneWside-track are ALL merges done yet?09:08
danielsdoko: i'm working with gravity, the general view is that we'll do a, er, nmu of mesa sooner rather than later.09:08
=== pitti did
danielsinfinity: xserver-common will cease to exist the next time I upload xorg.  what's the actual issue? missing /etc/X11/X?09:08
dokodaniels: thanks!09:08
JaneWok dholbach 09:08
infinitydaniels : Missing X binary, missing dexconf.09:08
dholbachmerges: http://tinyurl.com/dgvf209:08
dholbach * inclusion-of-docs: uploaded an improved update to dapper - breezy-update yet to come09:09
dholbach * formal-test-plans: some clarification on the pages, is wiki/Testing now - more Tests and more Media tests to come (Media meeting today)09:09
dholbach * this week done: gnome 2.13.3, bugs09:09
dholbach * this week to come: more bugs, {motu,media,desktop} team meeting, talk at umeet.uninet.edu09:09
dholbach * next week: bug day, more bugs, merges?09:09
infinitydaniels : The latter being particularly crucial, the former breaking GDM's default config.09:09
JaneWdholbach: thanks09:09
danielsinfinity: *shrug*, xserver-xorg should dep it for dexconf and xorg-common should dep it for the symlink.  but dexconf is moving over to xserver-xorg anyway.09:09
JaneWdoko09:09
dokothis week:09:09
doko- toolchain-roadmap: minor updates (binutils, gcj-4.1), amd64-biarch (still blocked)09:09
doko- toolchain-dapper+1: blocked by preparation of wanna-build and buildd infrastructure (currently ongoing)09:09
doko- openoffice.org: support work09:09
doko- merges: doing more merges not on the list; we don't have merge reports where debian and ubuntu have different tarballs (will be addressed before next merge before UVF (Keybuk)).09:09
dokonext week:09:09
doko- python-roadmap: python-central update (delayed again)09:09
JaneWdoko: openoffcie is listed as proposed - is it a Dapper Goal?09:10
JaneWdoko: and java roadmap is still not approved...09:10
dokoJaneW: I hope it is, but that spec is informational anyway. I'll prepare separate topics for the next report09:11
JaneWbut it's low priority09:11
JaneWdoko: ok thanks09:11
mvoJaneW: can I go last please? I mixed up times 09:11
JaneWmvo: sure09:11
daniels(s/xorg-common/xserver-xorg-core/ in my last sentence.  headdesk.)09:11
JaneWok fabbione : * server-candy: announce is out, community is growing fast. md5sum09:12
JaneWclient did his first run yesterday. Upload to the archive will happen09:12
JaneWrelatively soon. It is blocked by a couple of bugs, one missing feature09:12
JaneWand admins to create the server side. Wrote the PostfixCandy spec for09:12
JaneWmdz but it looks like not doable. /etc in RCS has been discussed with09:12
JaneWbzr guy. New spec wrote to address the remaining issues.09:12
JaneW* ubuntu-cluster: no progress this week. Still needs testing! People09:12
JaneWshould help a bit here.09:12
JaneW* probe-for-root-filesystem: no progress this week.09:12
JaneW* boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem.09:12
JaneW* merges: zlib - still pending libc6-i386-dev, one minor pending but09:12
JaneWit's no hurry at all.09:12
JaneW* last week: a lot of md5sum client and server-candy work, prepared for09:12
JaneWtoday's talk.09:12
JaneW* next week: keep going server-candy full speed. kernel security.09:12
JaneWhopefully finish some cluster tests and start working on new cluster09:12
JaneWcrack. Friday 16th i will start a bit later than usual but i will pick09:12
JaneWup the hours the same day.09:12
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infinityJaneW : Me next?09:13
JaneWinfinity: hit it09:13
infinitylast week:09:13
infinity - Did almost nothing I said I'd do last week, instead concentrating on making sure *-desktop and *-live were installable, so we could build CDs, getting linux-restricted-modules into shape, as well as other bugfixings and odds and ends.09:13
infinity - Made vga16fb and usplash default to a more sane resolution that seems to work well for everyone, this became the default in Flight-2.09:13
infinitynext week:09:13
infinity - Getting the toolchain-dapper+1 stuff going for doko on the buildds09:13
infinity - Everything else I said I'd do last week, but didn't.09:13
JaneWhaha09:13
JaneWiwj09:13
iwjFirefox maintenance:  Working on a new release right now, to ship libnspr/libnss from firefox, and other fixes.  BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation didn't happen and Matthew East and I haven't quite settled on the scheme for Dapper.09:14
iwjDefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report.  Firefox needs more other work too.09:14
iwjAutomatedTesting:  I have implemented the first part (basic chroot-using virtualisation script).  Will probably pick up the rest after Christmas.  It would still be nice to have that straw man from Robert Collins.09:14
iwjThinClientLocalDevices: spec is still in Drafting.  *BLOCKED*09:14
iwjDeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked.09:14
iwjHoliday: tomorrow (Friday) is my last working day of 2005.09:14
pittiiwj: yay nspr/nss ;)09:14
dholbachpitti++09:14
iwjpitti: It's real joy there in the build system, I can tell you.09:14
infinity<laugh>09:14
danielsbuild systems are all shit.09:14
pittieverything in ffox is real joy, I believe09:14
JaneWcool09:14
JaneWjbailey: 09:14
jbailey * ToolchainRoadmap: Delayed from last week to this week.  doko found a bug in my assumptions (I had forgotten about ldconfig biarch love.  Decided to do LinuxThreads/NPTL biarch for this too.  Both are now passing all tests.  Now that flight-2 is out, should be next 24h.09:15
jbailey * ToolchainRoadmapNg: After the glibc biarch, will start to evaluate glibc needs. Want to start collecting feedback on dropping pre-i686 per  outstanding issues .09:15
jbailey * General: glibc merge delayed by this as announced previously.  Punting grub bugs also delayed - it was a busy week.  This week, I plan to see which of the locale bugs were fixed with the Belocs merge.  I have a slight suspicion that it's all of them.  Oh yeah, and OMG, it's 3am.09:15
JaneWjbailey: no it;s not it 3:15 :P09:15
JaneWjdub??09:15
jbaileyJaneW: Sure, you can include that under my status. =)09:15
iwjCan I suggest at this point that Matthew East and I should talk to langpack/rosetta maintainer about BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation and what to do for dapper ?09:15
JaneWiwj: sure, 'do it'09:16
infinityiwj : That would be a pitti and a Carlos, probably.09:16
iwjinfinity: Ah, thanks :-).09:16
pittiyep09:16
jbaileyiwj: I'd like to catch up with what that issues are, because for Breezy it seemed unsolvable.09:16
pittiprobably me09:16
JaneWjdub has example-content, via e-mail he said: Yeah, sorry - too much traveling to attend the meetings or get anything done on it. I plan to start doing stuff on it as soon as I return home from OSDC , and will hopefully get a huge chunk of it done before Christmas break.09:16
iwjmdke: AYT?  Let's not have it now but when is good for you ?09:16
JaneWkamion: still not here?09:17
JaneWI'll get an e-mail update from him...09:17
iwjIsn't he on holiday still ?09:17
dholbachJaneW: i will talk to jdub about that... we need it for the media-related parts of formal-test-plans09:17
Mithrandiriwj: "still" as in, "for the last 12 hours", yes.09:17
JaneWyes, he said he was going to pop in for the meeting, might be sleeping though...09:17
dokojbailey, infinity: looks like I should put some toolchain work on my plan for next week ;)09:17
JaneWdholbach: yes please do, might spur him along...09:18
dholbachJaneW: i hope so :)09:18
JaneWkeybuk?09:18
iwjmithrandir: I mean, since the last time we asked about him :-).09:18
JaneWok I'll be keybuk too: udev-roadmap: done; we're pretty much at the stage where the bugs we're09:18
JaneWfinding are turning out to be kernel bugs rather than udev bugs now.09:18
JaneWhardware-activation: having some issues with network interface09:18
JaneWactivation, making sure we bring up things like static tun/ppp/etc.09:18
JaneWinterfaces without blocking on ethernet which are handled by udev, but09:18
JaneWnothing serious09:18
JaneWstreamlined-boot: underway, was waiting on Flight 2 and now that's out09:18
JaneWwill be uploading bits over the next few days09:18
JaneWnetwork-magic: various discussions, have a keen guy looking at the09:18
JaneWatheros issues for us09:18
JaneWkrstic?09:19
JaneWlathiat?09:19
JaneWsivang?09:19
JaneWMithrandir?09:19
JaneWanyone?09:19
Mithrandiropenoffice-amd64: no changes09:19
Mithrandirlive-cd-performance: progress with the simplified live cd, as in, I have bootcharts and we can start chopping time off the boot by making changes such as unionfs vs devmapper, cloop vs squashfs, etc.09:19
Mithrandirone-true-path: no progress09:19
Mithrandirsimplified-livecd: in place, working, released with flight 2.  Needs polish and cleanups as well as usplash integration09:19
Mithrandirmedia-integrity-check: no changes, but now unblocked.  Should be trivial09:19
Mithrandirnetwork-authentication: no progress09:20
Mithrandirgeneral: I've been working on the simplified live cd infrastructure.  It has come a long way and is pleasant to work with and easy to test.  Some pieces are still missing.09:20
Mithrandirnext week: some vacation, but before that I'll look at getting simplified live finished up, and if that goes well, continue with media-integrity check and poke at the live-cd-performance stuff09:20
iwjOh, Kamion says he'll be in this meeting.09:20
Mithrandirblocked on: nothing in particular, I have plenty of stuff to do until I get from VAC09:20
iwjI mean, in warthogs.09:20
sivangJaneW: hi, I'm here. been way busy at work, there hasn't been much changes since last time, I hope to be able to do some work on it on weekend time.09:20
JaneWMithrandir: so your block is gone..?09:20
MithrandirJaneW: yes.09:20
JaneWsivang: ok great, thanks09:20
JaneWMithrandir: good.09:20
MithrandirJaneW: at least, no blocks I'm aware of.09:20
JaneWogra: you're next and sorry for missing yesterday's meeting - we must talk after this...09:21
ogra* thin-client-sound: 95% implemented, code submitted to mdz for review, spec corrected accordingly, awaiting approval09:21
ogra* thin-client-local-devices: no progress09:21
ogra* thin-client-memory-usage: no progress09:21
ogra* thin-client-faster-startup: fine on recent HW http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png, spec changes awaiting approval09:21
ogra* gnome-screensaver-default-image: pinged mark about images, no answer yet, will ping again :)09:21
ogra* general: X breakage on the thin clients turned out to be only trident needs stilla debug session, mdz's suggestions for thin client sound implemented, flight2 tested on amd64/i386, themeable ldm finished, approved and included, ltsp multiarch patch approved and in dapper, no progress on new edubuntu-artwork yet, no more hwdb-client work yet. inspect X autodetection on thin clients for possible speedups per mdz suggestion not done yet, only found09:21
ogra that most of the preseed fixes we got from debian are not working at all. found that thin clients cant NFS mount anymore with the new dhcpd we ship due to a silly RFC (No. 2131) interpretation of the "siaddr" field by dhcpd upstream.09:21
ogranext weeks plans: nag mark more for gnome-screensaver-default-image space pics, implement thin-client-memory-usage (which will also fix the powerpc bug for ltsp), fix up edubuntu-artwork, find out if the preseeding X stuff is solvable and solve it for the options where possible, trident X debugging, hwdb-client bugfixing. find solution for upgrades of dhcpd.09:21
danielswhich speedups?09:22
ogradaniels, X ?09:22
danielsx autodetection, yes09:22
sivangthat shifting times thingy is killing me...09:22
sivang(of the meetings)09:22
ogramdz wants to put the debconf communicate call into one call instead of 2009:22
ograzhaz should speed up quite a bit09:22
pittiogra: dhcpd upgrade breaks?09:22
ograpitti, yes, for nfs mounted root filesystems09:23
JaneWogra: no movement on spec approvals yet? Still waiting on mdz for reviews?09:23
ograpitti, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DhcpdSiaddr09:23
pittiogra: omg, dhcp disturbs nfs? that sounds scary09:23
ograJaneW, mem usage is approved, sound is done ... but mdz had no time before holiday to review and faster startup needs minor changes09:24
ograpitti, it is ... :/09:24
ograJaneW, for local devices i still need mdz and sbalneav to get together09:24
JaneWogra ok thanks.09:24
JaneWdamn, has that not happened yet?!09:25
ogranope09:25
JaneWogra: the need is high, but it doesn't sem to be getting prioritized...09:25
JaneW*sigh*09:25
JaneWpitti: next09:25
pittinot much to say this week, but09:25
pittithis week: heaps of security updates, main inclusion reviews, and a few bits of package fixes, etc; no time to pursue specs09:25
pittinext week: get PHP security update done with Adam, catch up with my long neglected bug mail, try to debug printing stuff a little09:25
pittiautomatic-printer-conf: PLAN: investigate hal-cups-utils from Fedora for exporting cups configuration to hal09:25
ograJaneW, it it (and always was) a low/mid prio spec09:26
ogra*it is09:26
pittihowever, there are some more security updates to do, so there won't be much spec work next week either09:26
pitti*grumble* ffmpeg *grumble*09:27
seb128pitti: hint for next week: avahi promotion :p09:27
JaneWpitti: ok thanks *pat pat*09:27
JaneWseb128: 09:27
Riddellooh, yes please on avahi09:27
seb128hide-admin-tools-to-users: has been implemented previous week but the summary of the previous meeting has no mention of what I wrote on it, should I mention it again?09:27
Kamiond'oh, sorry I'm late, slept in09:27
seb128video-playback: gstreamer0.10 uploaded, gst-plugins-base0.10 almost ready: will be uploaded today, will continue on that next week09:27
seb128other: GNOME 2.13.309:27
seb128next week: video-playback and dapper-desktop-plan09:27
KamionI'll give my update at the end09:27
pittiyay gst 0.1009:28
seb128hi Kamion09:28
pittiMorning Kamion 09:28
JaneWKamion: thought that was the case. np... we have continued ;)09:28
pittiJaneW: cool, gst 0.10 removes the gstreamer-audio-backend blocker09:28
seb128pitti: with gst0.10 you can read songs without gap when switching :)09:28
JaneWseb128: short and sweet...09:28
JaneWpitti: great09:28
seb128s/read/play/09:29
JaneWRiddell: ?09:29
Riddelllast week: kdebindings, kdevelop packaging, xpdf security, simplify-kde, flight-2 testing, revu, finished merges, kubuntu-package-manager design discussions09:29
Riddellnext week: kubuntu-system-tools, hide-admin-tools-to-users, kubuntu-documentation packaging, poking KDE MOTU into getting all KDE universe packages installable, investigate getting KDE to work with CUPS 1.209:29
dholbachand the kubuntu hug day! :)09:29
Riddelldholbach: especially important09:29
dholbach.-)09:29
pittieek, zombie smiley09:30
JaneWok just mvo and kamion left ... and then merge nagging :P09:30
mvodid:09:31
mvo- AutomaticUpgrades: update-manager/python-apt with the required support is in the archive. The actual upgrade tool still needs more work09:31
mvo- AutomaticUpdates: integrated into the apt cron job, not yet upload (will do this today)09:31
mvo- ThirdPartyPackages: big cleanups in GnomeAppInstall, the code is really a mess. Initial support for channels is in (jbailey bzr is the example channel)09:31
mvo- some spec work about "PimpMyLanguageSelector" with jdub09:31
mvo- some cmd-not-found work, big problem: "alternatives", very hard to parse, but09:31
mvo  required to give useful results for e.g. emacs09:31
mvo- HideAdminTools/DapperDesktopPlan spec work for update-notifier09:31
mvo- DapperDesktopPlan work for notification-daemon09:31
mvoneed opinion:09:31
mvo- should the "automatic security upgrades" stuff be backported to breezy (in a seperate repository) so that people can test it more easily? 09:31
mvoblocking:09:31
mvo- support for package recommends: waiting on mdz for a decision09:31
mvowill do:09:31
mvo- more work on gnome-app-install/ThirdPartyPackages spec09:31
JaneWnow that's an update!09:31
JaneWthanks mvo: sme of your others have been hard to decode ;)09:32
pittimvo: backported to a private archive on people?09:32
mvopitti: yes09:32
pittiwell, can't hurt in any way :)09:32
dholbachJaneW: mvo deserves a golden star now, right? :)09:32
pittisince there aren't security updates for dapper yet09:32
mvothe problem is that we have no dapper-security currently, so it's a bit hard to test it on dapper :)09:32
pittiat least not proper ones, just regular uploads09:32
=== mvo agrees with pitti
=== JaneW hands mvo a virtual GoldStar (tm)
KamionI'd go for private archive for now and a post to ubuntu-users@09:33
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jbaileyWith Soyuz will those be created at the start of the dev cycle?09:33
jbaileyI suspect they probably ought to be to make testing things like this possible.09:33
Kamionjbailey: dapper-{security,updates} already exist *now*09:33
Kamionthere's just nothing in them09:33
JaneWRiddell: any progress on getting your specs approved?09:33
jbaileyAh, okay.09:33
infinityYes, the lack of packages in them makes it hard to test automatic upgrades. :)09:33
Kamionue-gnome-ui: Discussed accessibility requirements with Henrik.09:34
Kamionubuntu-express-bootloader: Was blocked for almost the entire week on the lack of a live CD. I have that now, but only as of yesterday, so just started on getting a reasonable test environment here.09:34
jbaileyQuick!  Someone find a php hole! =)09:34
=== jbailey hides.
Kamioncd-bootloader: Lots of bootloader SHINY done in the form of gfxboot-theme-ubuntu; deployed in Flight CD 2. This is now implemented with the exception of keymap selection; that's blocked until I know what kind of input simplified-live-cd expects here. Some bugs reported but nothing major yet.09:34
Kamionmisc: Flight CD 2 done, which took way too long. Helped Tollef out with casper/initramfs a bit, and eventually decided to switch to simplified-live-cd.09:34
Kamionblocked: There aren't enough hours in the day to do Flight CD 2 and real work.09:34
infinityjbailey : Fixing about 10 right now.09:34
pittijbailey: I have heaps of them09:34
MithrandirKamion: simplified-live-cd will do with what I get ATM.. at least, I think so.09:34
KamionMithrandir: (I think passing kbd-chooser/method= as we would for d-i should be fine?)09:35
MithrandirKamion: yes09:35
pittiKamion: just saw gfxboot today, shiny!09:35
Kamionok09:35
RiddellJaneW: not really, kubuntu-express is pending review from Kamion, who is now on holiday.  kubuntu-package-manager bounty needs approval/decline from mdz who is also on holiday09:35
MithrandirKamion/pitti: I might want a little bit of hand-holding to generate locales correctly for live.09:35
pittiwe urgently need a locales discussion09:35
jbaileyKamion: Is the flight-2 time stuff that all needed to be done anyway, or is there more that the rest of us need to do to avoid blocking you?09:35
JaneWRiddell: ok, hopefully we can get them sorted in early Jan then...?09:35
pittiwith Kamion, jbailey, doko, and me09:35
KamionRiddell: ah, I hadn't noticed kubuntu-express, will have a look at a free point09:35
Kamionjbailey: was mostly horribly blocked on the lack of a live CD09:36
JaneWok let's talk merges http://tinyurl.com/dgvf209:36
MithrandirJaneW: just a sec09:36
jbaileypitti: Scheduled it for any afternoon for you guys and I'm easily there.09:37
Kamionjbailey: possibly a little more initiative somewhere could've been taken on getting that done, but I can't really complain because it was all stuck behind the new kernel nonsense for ages09:37
MithrandirI'm wondering if we should have small freezes around the time when we try to get the live cd out, since we too often end up in situations where the live fs generation fails09:37
KamionI would like to have more people randomly testing CD images, though09:37
Kamionas in, not just before release - as we discussed before09:37
Mithrandirwhich is _really_ annoying when we're trying to release a cd and busy fixing other stuff.09:37
Kamioncasper changes now involve rebuilding the live filesystem, as of simplified-live-cd09:38
dholbachKamion: i burned the whole bunch and will get some tests done today09:38
danielsMithrandir: i think just saying 'don't upload shit that will break shit' and compelling everyone to comply via social means will be better than hard freezes09:38
Kamiondholbach: thanks09:38
pittiI tested today's live, will test today's install, too09:38
Mithrandirdaniels: possibly, but we didn't even do that, which meant having random gnome packages uploaded broke the world underneath our feet.09:38
Kamionyes, hard freezes have the bad side-effect that once you start one everybody expects you to release something soon09:39
danielsMithrandir: so try that?09:39
Kamionwhich might not be appropriate depending on how broken the result is09:39
Kamionand it really does impede everyone else's work a lot09:39
Mithrandircan we just try "soft freezes", then?09:39
sivangKamion: we need to gather some more people around doing specifically that (testing cd images) , ideally from the community. I would have helped, but currently work stuff don't let me get to it.09:40
jbaileyKamion: I'd suggested it before but not seen any interest, but I think maybe an "installfest day" once a month like dholbach does with the bug days might be effective?09:40
KamionI would like it if people uploading packages could try to arrange that those uploads will break as little as possible if they're built on only some architectures09:40
jbaileyKamion: Then you know you could set aside that day knowing that you'll mostly be collecting bug reports and triaging errors, etc.09:40
pittiespecially not pull in new packages from universe09:40
Kamionjbailey: I strongly think it needs to be spread out, not concentrated; we already have installfests just before releases09:40
dholbachjbailey: i will work more on the testing plan and try to announce it big09:40
jbaileyKamion: I was thinking like monthly.09:40
Kamionjbailey: the problem we have is that we don't find out about problems often enough09:41
daniels(or just ask kamion if you have world-endingly breaking stuff to upload.  i was about to upload 169 packages right as he was trying to release flight 2.)09:41
dholbachi thought about enumerating the "topics" in the testplan, so people could refer to them in bugs and we could better keep track of those numbers09:41
jbaileyKamion: For me alot of the time it just doesn't occur to me to test the CD mid-release.  There's always other tasks that have to be done.09:41
Kamionjbailey: I don't want to arrange that I only find out about problems blocking my (supposedly) two-weekly CD releases on a monthly basis. :-)09:41
seb128Mithrandir: when there is a new GNOME every 2 weeks and it take 3 days to package we can't really say "wait a few days before uploading it may break something"09:41
Kamionseb128: if it didn't break so badly when i386 builds but powerpc is lagging a bit, that would be lovely09:41
Kamionthere are a lot of tight arch: all <-> any dependencies09:42
Mithrandirseb128: I care less about segfaults and application breakage than pure uninstallability.09:42
ograJaneW, that bugzilla search is broken ....09:42
infinityseb128 : Uploading really wasn't a big deal, it was just horribly timed.  If someone had asked you to wait 4 hours, it would have been fine.  So, y'know, "oops". :)09:42
seb128Kamion: right, but I consider that an archive bug ...09:42
dholbachogra: i did it, what's wrong?09:42
ograJaneW, or MOM is ...09:42
Kamionoh, for goodness' sake, I guess we'll never get anything done then09:42
seb128infinity: I'm fine to wait 4 hours if somebody say so, it's just not easy to guess ;)09:42
=== Kamion declares all his bugs archive bugs and goes home. :-)
dholbachKamion: what do you mean?09:42
dholbachhaha :)09:42
dokoseb128: no, that's packaging, which you can work around09:43
elmoseb128: dude, be realistic, the archive has been like that since Debian started09:43
ogradholbach, there are merges that are no merges (i.e. we have newer versions, see kino) 09:43
infinityseb128 : The next time we seem to be on a "we want installable livefs's" warpath, I'll be sure to try to warn you.09:43
seb128infinity: thanks09:43
elmoseb128: it might be nice if the archive didn't work that way, but it doesn't, and it's not ging to get fixed anytime soon09:43
dholbachogra: talk to mom :)09:43
JaneWhttp://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=UPSTREAM&bug_status=PENDINGUPLOAD&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=merging&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=merging&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=merging&field0-0-3=status_whiteboard&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=merging&order=09:43
JaneWmap_assigned_to.login_name,bugs.resolution09:43
elmo(err, s/doesn't/does/)09:43
ogradholbach, i do :)09:43
seb128elmo: yeah, but changing the whole GNOME to not do that is not trivial neither09:43
MithrandirI think we should move on to merges now..09:44
pittiJaneW: are we supposed to catch up with the new merges? that's an awful lot of work at the current time09:44
dokopitti: and the list is incomplete09:44
seb128I thought merges were low priority for now?09:44
KamionI didn't expect us to be prioritising merges right now, no09:44
seb128and we had to catch up again before freeze09:44
pittiok, *phew*09:45
seb128s/had/will have/ rather :)09:45
pittiI thought that had changed, since JaneW wants to nag about it :)09:45
KamionUVF isn't until 19th January09:45
JaneWok so are all the old ones done then?09:45
=== JaneW is v happy to NOT nag
jbaileyUgh, only 1month to UVF?09:45
Kamionnot all, but most of them are09:45
ajmitchare the merge bugs with assignee as debzilla free to take?09:46
seb128they were previous week before starting the automatic bugs again no?09:46
KamionI count nine old ones09:46
dokoKamion: we still haven't merged all packages at least once, the ones with differing tarballs in unstable/dapper are missing. is it too late to touch these just before UVF?09:46
Kamionajmitch: yes09:46
ajmitch(within reason)09:46
ogramdz said explicitly that merge bugs should be set to P5 prio 09:46
ajmitchok09:46
Kamiondoko: Scott said there was a whole *one* of those that MOM hadn't reported09:46
ograso i didnt expect to prioritize them now 09:46
dokoKamion: oh, I didn't know that09:46
Kamionso that issue doesn't concern me at the moment09:46
pittiogra: new merge bugs only, not the old ones09:46
Kamiondoko: he said it to you :-)09:46
ograand MOM filed bugs for packages that are never in ubuntu ...09:47
ogra*newer 09:47
Kamioneveryone, please do check for merge bugs with bugzilla ids less than 2000009:47
=== doko hides, didn't see that ...
ogra(see my comment about kino)09:47
dholbachogra: it'S about merging, not about newer stuff09:47
Kamionthose are the old ones: Riddell has 1, infinity 3, doko 2, pitti 1, jbailey 1, fabbione 109:48
ogradholbach, there isnt anything to merge ... it should sort out the 0 byte patches ... i guess there are more09:48
KamionI realise they're all the really hard ones09:48
pitticdrtools is still broken09:48
pittiI won't upload it09:48
Kamionpitti: hmm?09:48
jbaileyKamion: glibc is intentionally delayed (per status report)09:48
pittiblocked: new upstream version does not work as normal user09:48
pitti^ status whiteboard09:48
Kamionpitti: is that still true as of the most recent Debian upload?09:48
dholbachogra: then merge the changelog, or sync if there's nothing to be changed09:49
pittiKamion: I didn't test it in the last week, I'll do again09:49
ogradholbach, ??09:49
Kamionthe last one dates from 2005-12-0409:49
ogradholbach, what should i sync with a 0 byte merge patch ? 09:49
dholbachogra: merge manually?09:49
infinityKamion : Mine are all intentionally delayed, as reported last week.09:50
ogradholbach, 0 == zero byte, there is not even a changelog entry to merge ...09:50
pittiKamion: the changelog doesn't seem to indicate any fixes in that direction, but I'll try09:50
infinityKamion : Though I could merge Thunderbird just to shut up MOM while I work on 1.509:50
dokoKamion: gjdoc: sync requested09:50
Kamionand fabbione's is still blocked behind i386 biarch I believe09:50
dholbachogra: you don't need to teach me, what 0 means - there were changes in debian - i looked at it a while ago09:51
Kamionok, any other business?09:51
JaneWno additional meetings were requested09:52
JaneWdoes anybody need to list a required discussion?09:52
pittiwe need the locales discisson09:52
pittibut that can be informal09:52
pittiwe just need to settle a time09:52
jbaileypitti: Need to pick a time for it, though.09:52
danielswould X breakage next week be a particular problem to anyone?09:52
JaneWshould I note it?09:52
KamionI'm off these two days, and next Wed/Thu/Fri; is everybody involved around on Monday?09:52
pittijbailey, Kamion, doko: would this afternoon be fine for you?09:53
danielsnot code breakage, just as I attempt to reshuffle the configuration madness into something that isn't shit09:53
Kamionoh, Mithrandir isn't IIRC09:53
seb128daniels: I prefer having a working X to get GNOME work done, but that's just me :)09:53
Kamionpitti: no, I'll be out of the house09:53
=== dholbach -> phone
pittiKamion: Monday would work for me09:53
pittijbailey, doko: Monday 1500 UTC?09:53
MithrandirKamion: I'm around on Monday, yes.09:53
dokopitti: Monday is ok09:53
danielsseb128: that wasn't a general question, that was more a 'is there anything specific next week that means I should wait for a week or so'09:53
pittigreat09:53
Kamionok by me09:53
jbaileypitti: FIne for me.09:53
pitticool09:53
JaneWwho all is it Kamion, pitti, doko?09:53
seb128daniels: oh k, not afaik so :)09:53
JaneWand Mithrandir09:53
pittiJaneW: yes09:53
KamionJaneW: and jbailey09:54
mvopitti: does it touch language-selector?09:54
pittimvo: *could*, not sure09:54
pittimvo: wanna join?09:54
ogradholbach, so i should make a changelog entry that reads "nothing merged" and upload a new ubuntu version? what for ?09:54
mvomight be a good idea if it does, yeah :)09:54
pittiseb128: hm, I can't add anything to my evo calendar09:54
pittimvo: is 1500UTC on monday fine for you?09:55
mvoyes09:55
jbaileypitti: Make sure you have the right calendar selected.09:55
Kamiondaniels: next week's not too bad; I *was* thinking of a very quick CD release next week in case live CD issues in Flight 2 need fixed up before the holidays09:55
seb128pitti: I can't even switch to the calendar tab09:55
jbaileypitti: It's sometimes non-obvious.09:55
Kamionbut that will be early next week by necessity (vacation time and all), if it happens at all09:55
ogradholbach, sorry, but i dont get what you want ...09:55
=== pitti slaps jbailey
pittijbailey: no, my evo freezes right after starting it09:55
infinityKamion : If you end up on the LiveCD warpath again next week, warn me.09:55
Kamionwill do09:56
MithrandirKamion: flight 2.1 on Monday or Tuesday would be nice.09:56
jbaileypitti: Smacking me around isn't like to get me to help you fix it, my friend. =)09:56
KamionI might just delegate it :-)09:56
Mithrandirsince I'm hoping we can have language selection and such in there09:56
pittijbailey: heh, sorry, that was meant for evo upstream :)09:56
infinityUh oh.09:56
infinityKamion : The word "delegate" scares me, when I know how many people in the cdimage group aren't on vacation... :)09:56
KamionSo it should. ;-)09:56
infinityKamion : Unless you meant you were delegating to Riddell. :P09:57
seb128pitti: I'm supposed to get a patch to try within an hour09:57
pittiseb128: <309:57
seb128pitti: and the "within an hour" is from half and hour ago09:57
RiddellI'm not in cdimage group yet as far as I know09:57
infinityRiddell : Dang.09:57
Riddelloh, actually maybe I am09:57
Kamionuid=2552(jriddell) gid=2500(warthogs) groups=2500(warthogs),2504(cdimage),2511(porting_team)09:57
Kamionare so09:57
infinityAh-ha!09:58
=== infinity takes next week off.
=== Riddell feels the delegation
JaneWok me goes to update report...09:58
JaneWKamion: go 'home' ;)09:58
pittithanks guys09:58
KamionJaneW: thanks for chairing; I *did* set my alarm to 7:30, honest ... I think my body knows it's on vacation.09:58
jbailey"Dave, this conversation can serve no purpose anymore. Goodbye."09:59
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Kamionthanks everyone, have a great holiday09:59
pittiKamion: enjoy your holidays, have a merry christmas09:59
KamionSpend some time *away* from the computer (and that's me talking). :-)09:59
JaneWKamion: it's ok really. relax and take a break - you deserve it!09:59
ograhaha09:59
pittimust ... fix ... bugs *nng*10:00
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mvohave fun Kamion 10:00
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ograKamion, enjoy your holiday and thanks again for the liveCDs :)10:01
danielsKamion: okay.  upgrades would probably be the issue rather than fresh installs.10:01
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Kamionelmo: incidentally, taking alex out of the cdimage group might be nice for my nerves10:01
KamionI keep seeing it and going "WTF?"10:02
dholbachsorry, got a phone call about linuxdays.lu10:03
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dholbachhello everyone?06:58
seb128ho dholbach06:58
dholbach'lu :)06:58
seb128hi06:58
seb128salut :)06:58
dholbachor was it 19:00 utc06:58
dholbachsiretart: ping06:59
dholbachslomo_: ping06:59
LaserJockhi dholbach 06:59
dholbachhi LaserJock06:59
slomo_dholbach: 19:00 UTC... in 1 hour ;)07:01
\sh19 utc means 20 :)07:01
JohnnyMastellow07:01
dholbachi see07:02
\shmotu meeting or motu media meeting?07:02
dholbachmedia and then motu07:02
LaserJockhmm, an hour ago fridge.u.c said and hour and now it says 58 min.07:02
slomo_media is 19:00, motu 20:0007:02
=== JohnnyMast waits untu motu
JohnnyMastMOTU Meeting07:03
JohnnyMastStart: 2005-12-15 19:0007:03
JohnnyMastEnd: 2005-12-15 20:0007:03
siretarthey07:03
JohnnyMastthe other way around07:03
\shTimezone: Etc/GMT07:03
siretartyeah, media meeting was scheduled 1900 utc07:03
seb128like motu one?07:05
siretartThere is some confusion07:13
siretartI announced a Media Meeting at 1900 utc07:13
siretartand I put MOTUMeeting in the subject line, which is confusing. 07:14
dholbachi wonder who had the idea of 20:00 utc then07:14
dholbach:)07:14
siretartdholbach: perhaps some german, who mixed utc and local time ;)07:14
dholbachyeah, maybe ;)07:15
dholbachit wasn't me07:15
=== dholbach runs
siretartlol07:15
rbelemhello people :)07:15
slomo_hi rbelem :)07:15
rbelemhey slomo_ how r u?07:16
slomo_rbelem: tired... but otherwise ok :) and you?07:18
\shso it's only media meeting?07:19
rbelemslomo_: fine... but without time these days to stay online... many free-lance jobs ;-)07:21
rbelemslomo_: will we discuss about audio and video editing tools too?07:23
slomo_rbelem: whatever is important... sure... feel free to add it to the agenda :) but actually i don't know what to discuss there... what did you have in mind?07:24
rbelemslomo_: hum... i do not know very well too 07:35
seb128dholbach: motu meeting is a 20:00 european time according to the fridge webcal, ie: same time as the media one07:36
slomo_rbelem: ok ;)07:37
rbelemslomo_: maybe list all these software in wiki, and software that might be added07:37
slomo_rbelem: hm, there's nothing to discuss imho :) just add it to universe candidates or package it yourself ;)07:39
rbelem:)07:39
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sistpotyhi folks07:57
Nafallomorning sistpoty 07:58
JohnnyMasthi sistpoty07:58
slomo_hi sistpoty :)07:58
sistpotyhi Nafallo, JohnnyMast, slomo_07:58
JohnnyMast:)07:59
JohnnyMast/massreply07:59
Nafallohm07:59
sistpotyhehe07:59
=== dholbach puts up a BIG THIS IS THE MEDIA MEETING sign :)
Nafalloso now that you said hi to me twice I have to say hi again? :-)07:59
JohnnyMastno 1 min remaing07:59
dholbachhope we won't have annoyed to many crazy motu people :)07:59
JohnnyMast:p07:59
sistpotyerm, dholbach: maybe we could discuss two more items you and siretart sent to the ml?08:00
dholbachsistpoty: sure... there should be an agenda somewhere08:00
dholbach... hum ...08:00
sistpotylast time i checked, it was the old agenda on MOTUMeeting08:00
dholbachno, it was some *Media* page afaik08:01
siretarthey folks!08:01
sistpotyhi siretart08:01
siretarthuhu sistpoty 08:01
slomo_ok, hi everybody :)08:01
slomo_dholbach: this one: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMedia/MeetingInvitation  ?08:01
siretartI think think we can begin, 08:01
Nafallohi slomo_, siretart :-)08:01
siretartok08:02
slomo_when someone has some last minute ideas for the "agenda" feel free to add it _now_ to the wikipage above ;)08:02
siretartI'm not sure if everyone is aware of the MOTUMedia team08:03
sistpotyslomo_: looks like it... do we also want to discuss 1) open motu day (dholbach) and 2) universecandidates vs. support tickets (siretart iirc)?08:03
siretartcurrently, I think slomo and me are the only active ones08:03
siretartand crimsun of course08:03
dholbachsistpoty: errr, this is more of a media meeting08:03
siretartwe want to improve the general situation of mutlimedia support in dapper08:03
sistpotydholbach: ah, k.08:03
dholbachsistpoty: there was some confusion around the mail title08:03
siretartand this meeting is some sort of big call for help08:03
dholbachsorry for that08:03
siretartwe have summarized our current biggest problem on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMedia/MeetingInvitation08:04
siretartlets start with the first point08:04
siretartslomo did an really awesome job and repackaged the mplayer package completly!08:04
siretartROCK!08:04
dholbach:)08:04
slomo_sistpoty: maybe it can be done afterwards... we'll see :)08:04
siretart*applause*08:04
=== JohnnyMast gives an applause :p
raphinkoooh I'm late08:05
raphink:s08:05
sistpotygood work, slomo_!08:05
siretartone important change was to separate mplayer-skins package08:05
siretartwhich I uploaded a few days ago08:05
siretartthe problem with the package: elmo rejected my first upload08:05
slomo_before we had exactly one skin shipping with the mplayer package08:05
NafalloBlue :-)08:06
siretartbecause most of the skins (including the one we had!!) had no sufficient licence statement08:06
siretartthe current mplayer-skins package has only 2 skins08:06
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siretartwhich are both gpl08:06
siretartwe urgently need more and better skins for mplayer08:06
siretartif somebody sees a better and properly licenced skin, please add it to the mplayer-skins package!08:07
Nafallodon't we have an artwork-team? :-)08:07
siretartNafallo: I'm not sure if they are active08:07
dholbachNafallo: good point :)08:07
siretartdoes anyone know about the status of the artwork team?08:07
lllmanulllWell,08:07
slomo_or if someone has some arts skills feel free to create your own one for inclusion in the mplayer-skins package :)08:07
lllmanulllI'm part of it08:07
siretartdo we have by chance a member of the artwork team here?08:07
siretartah hi lllmanulll!08:07
lllmanulllAnd I'll be happy to contribute, but my opinion is that we need good leadership08:07
siretartlllmanulll: do you think the artwork-team could help us with this problem?08:08
Nafallowe could always send a mail to ubuntu-art@l.u.c :-)08:08
lllmanulllWell, the best way is to send an email to the list with the request :)08:08
lllmanulllIf the art team is given a precise, short-term goal, I'm sure a few people will give it a try08:08
siretartok08:09
lllmanulllMight not be masterpieces, but we can always try :)08:09
slomo_well... it wouldn't be really precise... we just need a cool looking skin, no matter what style it is :)08:09
siretartlllmanulll: could you draft such a mail? I'll happily review and send it, if you don't mind08:09
lllmanulllYeah, "a cool skin for mplayer" is already precise enough08:09
lllmanulllsure08:09
siretartok. thank you lllmanulll 08:10
siretartjust draft it on the wiki and hand me the link to it08:10
ajmitchhi08:10
lllmanulllok, no problem08:10
siretartother suggestions to mplayer-skins?08:10
dholbachhey andrew08:10
siretarthi ajmitch 08:10
sistpotyhi ajmitch08:10
Nafallomorning ajmitch 08:10
siretartnone?08:10
raphinkhi ajmitch 08:10
siretartok, then lets proceed to our Multimedia Testplans08:11
dholbachyeah!08:11
slomo_ok, the multimedia test plan... we need to get some testing procedures decided for dapper to prevent regressions and be aware of what stuff is working and what isn't working... first of all we need good and free sample content... as different in formats and settings as possible08:11
dholbachjdub is working on example-content package08:11
dholbachwe should try to help him as good as we can08:11
Nafalloslomo use to send me non-free stuff to try and play ;-)08:11
dholbachprovide him with links of stuff we *can* ship in such a package08:12
dholbachnice streams are cool for the test plan too08:12
slomo_sure, that's what i planned to say next :)08:12
Nafallomagnatune is nice :-)08:12
sistpotyhow many different stuff could be made just by the capabilities of mencoder itself?08:12
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Media has some ideas on the testing08:12
dholbachit was a *very* quick draft :)08:12
slomo_but first of all we need to list everything possible and decide which parts are ok to be taken :)08:12
dholbachso if you have an idea, what we should test there as well, that'd be great08:13
slomo_sistpoty: many... but some formats are not supported yet (sorry, no list yet)08:13
siretartdholbach: yeah. to proposal here is to make a list of codecs we want to support08:13
McFergusare you going to use the new gstreamer ?08:13
dholbachso we can integrate it into the normal test plans08:13
siretartdholbach: as well as a checklist, how to test if the codec/the media file actually works in our supported players08:13
dholbachMcFergus: we'll test what is available08:13
siretartdholbach: and what player do we want tested08:13
siretartthis is what I want to discuss now08:13
dholbachi kept the test plans generic08:13
dholbachso kubuntu, ubuntu, xubuntu, ... can use them all alike08:14
siretartthe obvious ones are totem-gstreamer and xine08:14
siretartdo we want to have mplayer tested as well?08:14
dholbach*nod*08:14
siretartand what player did I miss?08:14
dholbachhmm08:14
dholbachvlc08:14
dholbachthe one that never let me down ;)08:14
McFergusamarok ?08:14
slomo_yes, these 4 are probably enough... even less could be ok08:14
slomo_amarok uses xine or gst afaik... but i could be wrong ;)08:14
dholbachmost important is what we have in main08:15
siretartMcFergus: I never tried amarok, but isn't it a music only player?08:15
Nafalloamarok, rhythmbox, muine, banshee etc...? :-)08:15
dholbachwhat we officially support08:15
sistpotyxmms08:15
siretartok08:15
raphinkamarok uses xine, artds and gstreamer 08:15
Nafallogst and xine stuff is whatever player I guess...08:15
raphinks/artds/artsd/08:16
siretartraphink: so we don't need to test amarock and kde players, because they are caught by xine08:16
siretartright?08:16
dholbachwhich are the tests we want our users to do? are there different ways to get players crashed? :)08:16
raphinksiretart: amarok is a music only yes, but it does much more than usual music-only players08:16
Riddellsiretart: they use gstreamer not xine by default08:16
raphinkand kaffeine is xine/gstreamer aswell08:16
slomo_dholbach: i would say... throw as many different streams/files in the player and report what breaks and why... and if it worked before ;)08:17
siretartdholbach: I'd propose to have compile list of media files, which have to be downloaded and tested08:17
slomo_but for that the sample content is needed08:17
siretarts/have compile/compile/08:17
siretartright08:17
siretartbut we need to tell the sample content guys which codecs and which media files we actually want to have tested08:17
siretartand we need to actually collect and fetch those files08:17
dholbachsiretart: s/guys/jdub/ :)08:17
dholbachmaybe we should list suggestions on a wiki page?08:18
dholbachlinks to those files?08:18
siretartdholbach: well, we cannot tell him 'please include all available codecs in sample content - kthnxbye'08:18
slomo_definitely, yes08:18
dholbachsuggestions :)08:18
dholbachhe will picky himself :)08:18
siretartdholbach: I think we should delegate this to a team of perhaps 2 or 3 ppl08:19
siretartthis delegation would be to compile a list of media files listing codecs and media players which we want to be tested08:19
dholbachit's easier, if everybody adds something08:19
slomo_dholbach: i would say that we put important stuff (i.e. theora, vorbis, ...) in the sample content package but have a central package listing many more files08:19
dholbachand the probability of getting things done ;)08:19
siretartdholbach: right, everyone is invited to contribute to that list08:19
dholbachright08:19
dholbachhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ExampleContent08:20
dholbachthat's the spec08:20
siretartRiddell: what media player engine does KDE use by default if not xine?08:20
dholbachit lists some crazy stuff already08:20
Riddellsiretart: gstreamer08:20
siretartsorry, I don't know much about kde :(08:20
siretartRiddell: ah, so we don't need specific KDE tests, right?08:20
Riddellwell KDE uses arts, kaffeine and amarok use gstreamer08:20
siretartif it works in totem-gstreamer, it must work in KDE too, right?08:20
Riddellsiretart: in theory yes08:21
dholbachhihi :)08:21
siretart:)08:21
siretartok. 08:21
=== dholbach knows the feeling after 246927496742967429769426 totem bug report
dholbachs08:21
slomo_ok, then let's handle players with the same backend like they're the same ;)08:21
slomo_for content tests08:21
siretartso does someone volunteer to compile these lists?08:21
dholbachmaybe we should track the state of players08:21
sistpotywasn't there noatun for a long time? is it still there?08:21
siretart(this basically means to prepare a wiki page and start with a few sample entries)08:22
slomo_dholbach: maybe a table... content x player?08:22
siretartyeah, I was also imagining a table08:22
dholbachslomo_: yeah and version08:22
siretartversion?08:22
dholbachslomo_: so we see, if things explode08:22
dholbachregression08:22
dholbachs08:22
dholbachstuff that used to work :)08:22
siretartah, version of player08:23
slomo_dholbach: hmm, a 3-dimensional table would be hard ;)08:23
raphinkhow would you do that in a 2D table dholbach ?08:23
siretartwell, that would a link to malone bugs then08:23
siretartso, nobody volunteers to start these pages?08:23
slomo_what about adding a date when something breaks? last date when it works and date when it was found to be broken?08:23
raphinkanybody wants to implement a table in openGL ,08:23
raphink?08:23
dholbachslomo_, raphink: data redundance :)08:23
raphink;)08:23
siretartraphink: I don't think so ;)08:23
raphinkdholbach: ok ;)08:23
siretartok. I will do that then08:24
siretartfurther comments to this topic?08:24
dholbachsiretart: which opengl chart are you implementing atm?08:24
slomo_thanks siretart :) when you need help just ask me08:24
siretartdholbach: no, I was talking about wiki pages08:24
dholbachyeah, which one?08:24
siretartdholbach: the player x content/codec table08:24
dholbachcool08:24
siretartany further questions or suggestions?08:25
dholbachso https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Media is ok for you all? i can add it to the normal test plans?08:25
slomo_and we should decide about what needs to be put in there when something breaks... just a "broken" with link to malone?08:25
slomo_dholbach: fine with me08:25
siretartdholbach: I think this should preferably go with test plans, but it also touches example content08:26
dholbachslomo_: i think it should suffice to say "broken since 1.5.6-6ubuntu23 ([link to bug] )08:26
dholbachsiretart: there would be instructions on how to obtain the example content package08:26
siretartdholbach: but we from the motumedia team want to do some QA to ensure that we don't miss important codecs for dapper08:26
siretartdholbach: I understand they would be uploaded to the archive?08:26
dholbachyes08:26
siretartso they would be in dapper anyways, what part did I miss?08:27
dholbachsiretart: if we take our case to jdub, i'm sure he'll be happy to see our points08:27
slomo_we can't include everything in the example contents package08:27
slomo_that would be just too much08:27
dholbachif we have links to random stuff on a wiki page, that'd be nice too (especially streams)08:27
siretartslomo_: I think we should discuss this point when we actually have some sample content08:27
slomo_siretart: ok08:28
sistpotyMOTURadio :)08:28
siretartlol08:28
dholbachyeah!08:28
siretartbut good point08:28
slomo_hehe08:28
siretartstreaming should be tested too, will add that to the list08:28
siretartok. further questions/suggestions?08:28
=== dholbach thinks
siretartok08:29
dholbachapart from doing testing, what as a team do we want to achive?08:29
slomo_and we should add a note that when someone finds something that doesn't play it should be added to malone without fear ;)08:29
dholbachwe want more people, we want better support for crazy players, what else?08:29
dholbachbug upstream guys, keep track of those bugs :)08:29
dholbachslomo_: ++08:29
slomo_hmm, allow playing of everything legally possible ;)08:30
JohnnyMastadd a cert rss into malone 08:30
raphink:)08:30
JohnnyMastwith an option to sync it to malone 08:30
siretartdholbach: we want to improve the multimedia experience by both sample content and testplans08:30
siretartI think thats enough work for the motumedia team08:31
dholbachsure08:31
siretartok08:31
siretartlets talk about the next point, okay?08:31
dholbachi just wondered, how we'd appear to the rest of the world08:31
dholbachok08:31
dholbachsorry08:31
dholbachyes08:31
slomo_and we want support for codecs we're currently missing... and maybe new media packages we "need"...08:32
siretartthe next points are to discuss which codecs we are actually talking about08:32
slomo_but that's probably something for universe candidates08:32
dholbachslomo_: that'll be your job ;)08:32
siretartI'd really like to have some list of the most common codecs, which are supported in main, which in universe and which in multiverse08:32
siretartand we have to differentiate between encoding and decoding only08:33
dholbachmaybe slomo_ should tell us about good, bad and ugly08:33
dholbach:)08:33
slomo_i could start this list at the weekend08:33
siretartit doesn't need to be a list containing every existing codec we may or may not support, the most common ones are okay08:33
siretartso this is a call for help, too. Please help us to compile those lists and ask folks who actually have a clue08:34
siretartslomo_: that would be great08:34
siretartslomo_: a wiki page containing a table as a start would be a really great start08:34
slomo_but i would add everything, not just the most common ones08:34
Nafalloyea, I was thinking about that good, bad, ugly. hasn't gstreamer already done the job for us or did I miss something? ;-)08:34
slomo_and even stuff we don't support currently08:34
siretartNafallo: do you have a link?08:35
siretartor does anyone here has some relevant information which could help us compiling such a list?08:35
Nafallosiretart: planet.gnome.org is where I got info about it :-)08:35
slomo_Nafallo: partially, yes... but bad are just broken plugins ;) and ugly contains stuff that also could be in main08:35
Nafallodamn :-P08:35
sistpotyrelevant as in I know certain codecs/formats, but irrevelant as I don't exactly know about the goodness/badness of many of them08:35
siretartNafallo: oh, I see. But browsing through past blog entries is,,, unconvienient at best ;)08:36
raphinkwould that be useful ? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_codecs08:36
Nafallosiretart: indeed :-)08:36
slomo_raphink: yes, sure... thanks :)08:36
siretartperhaps we should note in that compilation of codecs WHY which codec is in which part of the archive08:36
=== siretart looks
Nafallowe should let slomo handle this. he just had the transition with libxine :-P08:37
dholbach:)08:37
slomo_Nafallo: not yet... i hope to get it done at the weekend08:37
siretartI don't want to load slomo more than necessary. 08:37
Nafalloslomo_: even better then. remove codecs and note why on a wikipage ;-)08:37
siretarthe has done a really awesome job on both mplayer and xine!08:37
slomo_siretart: yes, the reasoning would be nice too... a table listing codec, supported where, why... something i forget?08:38
siretartslomo_: I think thats enough. 08:38
siretartother comments?08:38
slomo_maybe a "working"-column?08:38
dholbachwhich licenses we have explain to whom? :)08:39
siretartslomo_: if it isn't working, mark it in the 'supported where' coloumn08:39
raphinkdholbach: version of the licence and comment from RMS ?08:39
siretartsupported where: nowhere08:39
slomo_dholbach: it's mostly not license related... it's just ugly patents ;)08:39
dholbachraphink: yeah, that'd be nice "Comments from RMS - collec them all!"08:39
raphinkhaha08:40
siretartdholbach: the most difficult issues are political and legal issues of companys threatening with patents08:40
dholbachyeah :(08:40
dholbachwow, we must have a 6-dimension table now... "MediaTEAM - taking you to the 6th dimension..."08:40
raphinkevil patents 08:40
=== felipe_ [n=felipe@142-250-246-201.adsl.terra.cl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
siretartdholbach: we cannot do much about them as MOTUs, we can just say 'its gpl, but we don't want to distribute them because we fear prosecution...'08:40
slomo_dholbach: well... 2 tables ;)08:40
dholbachslomo_: i know :)08:41
siretartdholbach: why 6 dimension table?08:41
dholbachbecause i was kidding and for the nice slogan's sake08:41
dholbachexcuse me08:41
ajmitchheh08:41
slomo_let's name the "why" column legal assessment and note below that we're not lawyers08:41
raphink;)08:41
siretartraphink: the wikipedia listing seems like a useful start. thanks!08:41
raphinkwikipedia has nice lists :)08:42
siretartslomo_: I think to note 'patent encumbered' is enough08:42
siretartperhaps we should rather note if the codecs are problematic due to companys actively enforcing their patents or if they are not enforcing them08:43
slomo_siretart: everything is patent encumbered probably ;)08:43
slomo_yes, that's what i wanted to put in legal assessment08:43
siretarte.g. I think mp3 playing is relativly okay08:43
raphinkeven linux with end patent encumbered08:43
raphinks/with/will/08:44
siretartah, okay, then we are having the same thought08:44
slomo_siretart: ok as in not distributable on CD08:44
siretartok08:44
dholbachwhich wiki pages do we have now? i mean which names do they have?08:44
slomo_hm, and we should distinguish again encoding/decoding... we support for example decoding of alac but no encoding08:45
siretartthis brings me another question08:46
siretartdo we want to have encoding tested, too?08:46
slomo_dholbach: no idea yet :) what about Media/ListOfSupportedCodecs, Media/CodecState, ...?08:46
siretartor just decoding?08:46
slomo_encoding too, definitly08:46
dholbachslomo_: /Codecs /Status? :)08:46
slomo_what would we do if vorbis encoding breaks at some point and noone notices it ;)08:46
=== crimsun [i=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
Nafallohi crimsun :-)08:46
slomo_hi crimsun :)08:47
crimsunhi Nafallo, slomo_ 08:47
raphinkhi crimsun 08:47
crimsun(& etc. ;-)08:47
dholbach:-)08:47
slomo_dholbach: Media/Codecs/{List,State}?08:47
raphink:)08:47
slomo_hmm, seems to be redundant somehow...08:48
siretartslomo_: puh. then the testplans needs to document how to actually do the encoding08:48
dholbachMedia/Codecs, Media/State, Media/Team, Media/NewStuff, Media/P0rn^WLinks, Media/EmergencyPhoneNumbers08:48
dholbachsiretart: if it's not a common use case, maybe that's something we should test for our owns, what do you think?08:49
NafalloEmergencyPhoneNumbers? :-P08:49
dholbachNafallo: if vorbis encoding breaks :)08:49
ajmitchhah08:49
slomo_siretart: let's make it low priority then... decoding is definitely more important08:50
sistpotyand I tried so hard not to write the p^WLinks word ;)08:50
siretartdholbach: would you know how to use transcode to encode something in vidx with ogg/vorbis audio?08:50
dholbachsiretart: no08:50
siretartthis is what I mean would be needed for the testplans08:50
Nafallodholbach: we should be able to call sip:slomo@ubuntu.com soon, no? ;-)08:50
dholbachsiretart: i only tried thoggen and flamed^Wtalked to slomo about it08:50
slomo_siretart: but we should list it in the table for reference... whoever wants to test it does it and we do it ourself otherwise08:50
slomo_dholbach: and i bugged upstream about it... but got no answer yet :(08:51
siretartslomo_: yes.08:51
dholbachthoggen, soundconverter, sound-juicer, istanbul are encoders, i know08:51
siretartslomo_: but lets not 'officially' make testing encoding a requirement08:51
siretartI don't think we have the manpower to do that08:51
dholbachsiretart: ++08:51
slomo_siretart: yes, that's what i mean :)08:51
siretartok08:51
slomo_dholbach: mencoder, transcode, gst-launch ;)08:52
Nafallobanshee is decoder/encoder? ;-)08:52
=== dholbach never used banshee
=== dholbach blushes
Nafallofood08:52
siretartok. do we have any other business we need to discuss?08:53
Nafallolater :-)08:53
siretartcu Nafallo !08:53
dholbachsee you Nafallo08:53
sistpotycya Nafallo08:53
ajmitchwork calls, bbl08:53
raphinkbye Nafallo 08:53
slomo_we need to create a overview page probably :)08:53
sistpotycya ajmitch08:53
slomo_bye ajmitch 08:53
siretartbye ajmitch 08:53
dholbachbye andrew08:53
siretartslomo_: overview page?08:53
dholbachslomo_: Media08:53
dholbachwhere we document, what the team does, who's in it08:53
slomo_yes... a page that lists all relevant media pages08:53
dholbachwhy we needs more people08:53
dholbachMedia and Media/*08:54
dholbachand we remove all the other ones :)08:54
siretartdo we want to introduce a wiki.ubuntu.com/Media/ hirarchy or can we take https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTUMedia/?08:54
dholbachthere's MOTUMeida and Motumultimedia08:54
crimsunis it specific to MOTU, though?08:54
dholbachsiretart: because stuff is in main, i suggest moving to Media08:54
slomo_leaving out MOTU seems to be a good idea probably... it's not MOTU specific08:54
crimsunright.08:54
siretartMotumultimedia?08:54
slomo_so just Media and Media/*08:55
dholbachyes, i saw it, searching for "Media"08:55
dholbachyeah08:55
raphinkmoltumedia ? :08:55
siretartdholbach: It is just a redirection to MOTUMedia ;)08:55
=== dholbach takes away raphink's crack pipe and puts it to his own pile :)
dholbachsiretart: oh, right :)08:55
slomo_ok, so who wants to start the "main" page? :)08:56
dholbachi think the team will overlap with the desktopteam and the kubuntu team and the motu team, ... but i think that's fine08:56
siretartok. Then who wants to create a framework/hierarchy Media/*?08:56
siretart(please not again slome or me ;)08:56
dholbachi'll start Media08:56
slomo_thanks daniel :)08:56
siretartthanks08:56
dholbachslomo_ volunteered to start the dummy tables08:56
=== siretart too
slomo_dholbach: not dummy... mine will contain some useful content from the beginning... i hope ;)08:57
dholbachslomo_: sorry for insulting you, i didn't mean to ;)08:57
siretartok. I think we are done with the agenda then08:57
slomo_dholbach: i didn't perceive it as such, don't worry *hug* :)08:57
dholbachi was kidding... nevermind me today ;)08:58
dholbachok, so somebody else has to write the meeting minutes08:58
=== dholbach whistles innocently
siretartThere was some confusion that we'll have a MOTU Meeting after this meeting08:58
raphinkcan I drop a word about the queue on REVU?08:58
siretartwhich would be now (or in 2 minutes)08:58
siretartah raphink wants to talk about revu08:58
raphinkhmmm08:58
sistpotyhm... do we need a motumeeting now? or would it be better to schedule this at another time?08:59
siretartI'd suggest that we adjurn now the Media meeting and have a quick MOTU Meeting right now08:59
slomo_dholbach: will you notify me when the Media page is started? :)08:59
raphinkwell the queue on REVU is growing fast08:59
dholbachso who writes the "The newly instated Media Team decided that ..." mail?08:59
dholbachslomo_: you can start Media/Bla anyways now :)08:59
dholbachslomo_: but i'll do08:59
siretartdholbach: I'll try to write a summary about this meeting, okay?08:59
dholbachsiretart: ROCK08:59
dholbachthanks a lot08:59
slomo_dholbach: oh, ok :)08:59
slomo_i have logged everything and could put the log up somewhere if needed09:00
siretartok.09:00
=== siretart logs, too
siretartok09:00
siretartlets talk about revu, then, okay?09:00
sistpotyraphink: your stage now ;)09:00
dholbachhttp://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ logs too09:00
raphinksistpoty: sure09:00
raphinkwell I surely haven't been using REVU for long so I don't know about its past09:01
raphinkbut the list of packages to review on REVU is growing very fast lately09:01
raphinkand packages are hardly approved09:01
raphinkREVU days were planned last weekend09:01
raphinkbut not a lot of reviews have been done09:01
raphink(I might be wrong on this)09:01
raphinktalking with packagers, it seems the common opinion is that the web interface is not efficient enough 09:02
=== dholbach reviewed some, but not overecstatically much
raphinkyes you did quite a lot dholbach 09:02
dholbachi don't think it's a web interface problem09:02
dholbachi think it's more a problem of raising awareness of packages09:02
raphinkdholbach: well very often new packages are reviewed first09:02
dholbachif somebody asks me to review something, then i find the time to do it09:02
raphinkand packages that have already been approved once may wait weeks to be approved by another MOTU09:03
raphinkalthough they're ready to go09:03
siretarti also think it rather a problem that motus are either not aware of the ongrowing list of packages or general overload of motus09:03
slomo_and we need more motus with kde knowledge...09:03
siretartjepp09:03
dholbachbut see this usecase: somebody uploads a package, it takes 2 weeks until somebody looks, then it takes 2 weeks to get it updated again - imho that's a problem of communication09:03
siretartI had a look at skin before09:03
sistpotyhm... for the web interface, I guess that's my fault, because I still haven't written one more line of that revu2 code i promised to write until last week :(09:03
crimsunthat seems to be a manpower issue, though09:04
dholbachcrimsun: ++09:04
raphinkdholbach: from my short experience, packages are fixed much faster when emails are sent to packagers. REVU could do that automatically.09:04
LaserJockis there a way to delegate reviewing (not necessarily advocating) more to responsible MOTUWannabes ?09:04
dholbachand communication... maybe we need a bot in #ubuntu-motu09:04
siretartI think it is fine. not the prettiest package I've seen, but looks okay. But I don't have much KDE experience either09:04
Riddellif revu sent out e-mails that would help a lot I think09:04
siretartraphink: we (sistpoty and me currently) are working on that09:05
=== McFergus [n=frg@85-18-14-13.fastres.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting
sistpotydholbach, raphink: irc-bot for revu2 and emails are planned... but again, my fault for being lazy 09:05
dholbach"new package 123 uploaded - [link] " - "new comment on 234 [link] "09:05
dholbachsistpoty: don't beat yourself up09:05
dholbachsistpoty: you were quite active otherwise and we're all grateful for that09:05
raphink:)09:05
dholbachhow complicated would it be to write a dirty hack to send out mails?09:06
sistpotyhehe dholbach... but I finally want to get to work to it :)09:06
siretartdholbach: I have another problem with that09:06
dholbachmaybe to a new mailing list, a small program, reading the database logs?09:06
raphinksistpoty: :)09:06
\shdholbach: no new mailinglist please :)09:06
siretartdholbach: we would either have to implement a blacklist or whitelist whom to mail09:06
sistpotydholbach: easy... at least to ubuntu-motu ml09:06
siretartdholbach: and an interface to that list09:06
dholbachany list09:06
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\shsiretart: can you sort the list for advocates?09:07
siretartbecause we certainly don't want to spam innocent maintainers09:07
raphinkyes09:07
\shsiretart: so that new packages are shown on the top and not in the middle of the list? or at the end?09:07
slomo_what about spamming the one who signed the upload?09:07
raphinkif Debian maintainers are spammed with REVU stuff they won't like it for sure09:07
crimsunout of curiosity, could we colour-code the status of packages? I understand we already have a Comments/Advocate column09:07
siretartrevu just checks signatures. not if the email is correct09:07
siretartthis would be more easy when we actually authenticate and use launchpad for that09:08
siretartbut thats revu2, and the reason why there is no email notification right now09:08
dholbacha quick and dirty solution would suffice for now, wouldn it?  sending mails to revu@tauware,de? :)09:08
sistpotysiretart: why not sending a mail to motu-reviewers list, with a certain subject so that everyone on the list can filter it, if he doesn't want it... the uploader wouldn't get a mail (yet)09:08
raphinkcrimsun: I'd say we'd need some kinds of levels for packages aswell, rather than just NEW, WORKED ON and OK09:08
\shraphink: revu209:08
siretartsistpoty: hey, thats an easy hack I didn't think of 09:08
raphink\sh: great :)09:08
dholbachwe should prioritize our requirements09:08
crimsunI think one thing that makes the revu page kinda daunting is the extremely long list; colour-coding would help at a quick ovreview09:08
LaserJockmaybe we should have a REVU2 Love Day ;-)09:08
crimsunoverview^09:09
raphinkLaserJock: ++09:09
sistpotysiretart: still s.o. who reviews a packge should still ping/mail the uploader (by hand)09:09
raphinkcrimsun: ++09:09
siretartsistpoty: yepp. The email should contain both submitter and reviewer09:09
\shLaserJock: did you ever read siretarts and ajmitchs revu2 spec crack? it's awesome...:) I needed at least 2 nights to understand it :)09:09
siretartlol09:09
dholbach:)09:09
ajmitchheh09:10
siretart\sh: reordering of new and old crack, that sounds reasonable09:10
LaserJock\sh: skimmed it09:10
\shwell..actually it was the diagram 09:10
siretartsistpoty: do you think you could adjust the query?09:10
ajmitch\sh: mostly siretart & sistpoty 09:10
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sistpotysiretart: I can adjust every query ;)09:10
\shajmitch: you helped siretart a lot at ubz :) 09:10
ajmitchsure09:10
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ajmitchnow I get to help coding it09:10
slomo_sistpoty: you're the sql god ;)09:10
\shajmitch: you see..and I'll take you merges ,)09:11
slomo_hi tseng :)09:11
siretartsistpoty: that would be great09:11
=== tseng waves
siretartsistpoty: I think there are no uncommited changes left in /srv/revu109:11
raphinkhi tseng 09:11
sistpotysiretart: ok... will check out a local copy09:11
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siretartno there isn't09:11
dholbachwhat is the current agreement for the quick and dirty solution, which will all our lives better?09:11
siretartso I can probably just update from head09:11
ajmitchhello tseng 09:12
ajmitchI think most people will have a short break in the next week or so09:12
siretartdholbach: I'll create a mailing list revu-comments@tauware.de, and make revu send emails for every comment there09:12
\shdholbach: I think sorting the packages for "packages with one advocates on top of the list"09:12
ajmitchso we'll get stuck into things in january09:12
raphinkhopefully ajmitch 09:12
siretartI think that could serve as an interim solution09:12
dholbachsiretart: that's awesome09:12
ajmitchsiretart: good idea09:12
sistpotysiretart: can't we reuse motu-reviewers ml?09:12
dholbachannounce it on ubuntu-motu@ please09:12
siretartdholbach: after it is implemented, I'll announce it09:13
siretartsistpoty: thats an option, too09:13
=== ajmitch will be 'working' fulltime on ubuntu stuff in jan/feb, since I'll be jobless ;)
siretartsistpoty: but I'm not sure if thats a good idea09:13
dholbachsistpoty: maybe the guys uploading a package will only want to know about revu?09:13
siretartwhat do the others think?09:13
ajmitch\sh: so you & I can rock the world09:13
raphinkthere are lost of mailing lists, reusing motu-reviewers might be easier09:13
\shajmitch: welcome on board :)09:13
=== dholbach likes it separatedly, but can live with it
\shajmitch: ah no...I have to find a job very fast..if not..I can shutdown my IT center here09:14
=== raphink is jobless too, at least till january
ajmitch\sh: hehe09:14
ajmitch\sh: I've got enough for a couple of months, and a few potential jobs to look at09:14
\shajmitch: no joke...serious09:14
ajmitchthey're mostly in .au though09:14
sistpotywell it has to do s.th. with reviewing, so my idea... but I'm still really undecided about which ml to use09:14
siretartraphink: since you raised the revu question: what would you prefer?09:14
slomo_hmm09:15
slomo_another idea for revu09:15
siretartraphink: a separate announce list or on the motu-reviewers mailling list?09:15
ajmitchwe could get a lot of mails if all debdiffs & all REVU package comments go there09:15
crimsune-mail would be good, but seriously using a more cogent colour scheme (via a style sheet?) would help as well.09:15
slomo_let people "subscribe" to revu or single uploads09:15
ajmitchslomo_: revu209:15
slomo_ok09:15
raphinkdoens't matter to me since I'm not sucribed to motu-reviewers yet, but since it's directly related I'd go for only one ML09:15
ajmitchslomo_: I don't think the framework is there for individual subscription in revu109:15
siretartslomo_: if you want to implement it, sure ;)09:15
sistpotycrimsun: revu1 already uses css... any help with it would be very much welcome ;)09:16
ajmitchsiretart: I think we'll try & get revu2 workable by mid-late jan09:16
LaserJockwell, how far off is REVU2 do you think?09:16
slomo_siretart: i _want_... but i can't when nobody invents the 72hour day soon :(09:16
siretartslomo_: seriously, I also think this is more easy to implement in the new codebase09:16
siretartslomo_: same here09:16
dholbachi wouldn't like it on motureviewers, since those bugs all go to universe-bugs@ atm09:16
dholbachand that'd make the list even more insane09:16
siretartLaserJock: unfortunatly, I don't think it will go live before january, unless we get lots of more volunteers who suddenly start hacking09:16
ajmitchsiretart: me! me!09:17
raphinkgood point then dholbach 09:17
siretartajmitch: :)09:17
LaserJocksiretart: what does it take to work on it?09:17
ajmitchsiretart: but I won't start hacking it until jan 1st ;)09:17
siretartLaserJock: currently an svn client, and a bit of python knowledge09:17
sistpotydholbach: motu-reviewers ml go to universe-bugs?09:17
ajmitchLaserJock: a good understanding of the spec, and of python, and various other tools09:17
dholbachsistpoty: yes09:17
\shpython , mod_python , and a lot of debian foo bar knowledge :) and eat a bit of siretarts crazy brain ;)09:17
=== ajmitch thinks all REVU2 contributors must read through the spec
ajmitch\sh: I've already done the brain thing09:17
\shhehhe09:18
siretartyes. it is essential to understand the workflow09:18
sistpotydholbach: strange... why do we have a separate ml then? (motu-reviewers on tauware)09:18
siretartok, then lets use the same list09:18
dholbach?09:18
siretartbecause revu and reviewing should be handled with equal priority, I think09:18
LaserJockhmm, I would be interested. I don't know if I could help much09:18
dholbachsiretart: but those are not universe-bugs@09:18
=== ajmitch was reading through his zope3 book last night, email notification of changes is quite trivial there ;)
sistpotydholbach: at least that's a ml I'm subscribed to... and some bugs from malone with reviewing go there... but I'm not quite sure bout that *g*09:19
=== raphink would help if he knew python
slomo_raphink: it's easy to learn :)09:19
siretartdholbach: ah, I remeber, we had some mailling list confusion09:19
ajmitchdholbach: bugs assigned to motureviewers go to the reviewers mailing list..09:19
\shraphink: python is one language you have to learn :) it's the ubuntu language :)09:19
siretartdholbach: no, I don't want them to show up on universe-bugs, too09:19
dholbachsiretart: yes, and i still have to approve those posts09:19
sistpotyah, ajmitch... thx for clarification09:19
raphink\sh: then I shall09:20
siretartdholbach: fuck, then I forgot to take you off, sorry09:20
siretartsistpoty: we need to talk! *g*09:20
sistpotysiretart: sure :)09:20
siretartquery, later, okay?09:20
sistpotyok09:20
siretartgood09:20
=== dholbach -> phone, sorry
siretartok.09:20
siretartsummary: TODO: make revu mail comments to motu-reviewers09:20
=== ajmitch wonders if we'll have another mailing list just for revu2 devel :)
siretartFIX mailinglist madnes09:21
siretarts09:21
sistpotysiretart: and uploads?09:21
LaserJockcan anybody check out the revu svn repo?09:21
siretartsistpoty: thats an intersting point, we didn't discuss this yet09:21
ajmitchLaserJock: currently no09:21
\shone mailinglist for \sh only name backslaSHs-own-mailinglist@crazy.ubuntu.people.com09:21
siretartshall every upload be announced too?09:21
ajmitchsiretart: yes09:21
ajmitchsiretart: well each new package09:21
siretartI mean, I already get an email for every upload, but the output is not very pretty09:21
ajmitchcan you differentiate between a new package & an update to it on revu?09:22
sistpotysiretart: I want that too... at least for me ;)09:22
=== ajmitch isn't sure if we want every change on the list
siretartajmitch: yes, I think I can09:22
ajmitchsiretart: oh, we'll do all this with rss in revu2 ;)09:22
ajmitchso someone can subscribe to what they want09:22
raphinkoh that's nice :)09:23
sistpotyand mail.. I want lot's of mail from revu2 :)09:23
ajmitchsistpoty: generic notification wouldn't be hard if it's done right09:23
=== raphink thinks about getting REVU infos in akregator :)
siretartajmitch: I would hack it into revu1/scripts/process_uploads.py09:23
sistpotyajmitch: cool09:23
ajmitchI'll draw up a list of what I'll try & work on 09:24
siretartajmitch: there I have to register the new package to the database anyway, so I can use the check there09:24
sistpotysiretart: I'll care for comments09:24
siretartsistpoty: that would be awesome, thanks09:24
ajmitchin between all the merge bugs, etc09:24
sistpotywell, I'll leave it to you to fix the surely b0rked mail-cmd ;)09:24
siretartsistpoty: both mail for comments and new packages or just comments?09:24
ajmitchbefore \sh takes away all my bugs from me09:24
sistpotysiretart: I'd like to do comments at first... I guess you have better knowledge of incoming-processing?09:25
\shajmitch: you will have at least until next week :) when i'm better I'll rock again...09:25
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siretartsistpoty: that isn't that sophisticated, just have a look at process_uploads.py, thats all09:25
ajmitch\sh: I'll be offline for a week by then09:25
sistpotysiretart: ok, I'll care for that too ;)09:25
siretartthanks!09:25
sistpotynp siretart09:26
siretartok09:26
\shajmitch: well...I have to work hard...just before I'm offline forever ;)09:26
siretartthen we have settled the revu business for now09:26
sistpotyok, before we get too indepth into revu discussion... are there other points we want to discuss?09:26
siretartright, that was what I was going to ask09:26
raphink:)09:26
siretartwhat's left to discuss for now?09:26
ajmitchsistpoty: considering this is an unannounced impromptu meeting09:26
raphinksistpoty ate a bit of siretart's brain, too it seems09:27
\sheverybody who has open merge bugs..syncs, debdiffs..please send me the bug numbers...i'll test and upload thx09:27
LaserJockI just wanted to comment that I would like to get some feedback from my -motu email about the Ubuntu Packaging Guide09:27
siretart\sh: could you please mail this to our mailing list?09:27
siretartthis request, that is09:27
\shmeans all people without upload rights...09:27
\shsiretart: sure09:27
ajmitch\sh: let me work on the ones I have assigned to me ;)09:27
ajmitchthere's enough for me to break there09:27
sistpoty\sh: and please also note that everybody should look, if there are assigned bugs for him which he didn't request09:27
crimsunLaserJock: sure, url? (I have a backlog of over 1000 e-mails, so a url is handier atm)09:27
\shajmitch: you do the zope stuff...I don't touch them :)09:28
ajmitch\sh: yeah, there's enough of a tangled mess there09:28
LaserJockcrimsun: I would like feedback on wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuPackagingGuide/Outline09:28
siretartLaserJock: looks nice! really!09:29
siretartLaserJock: how is it developed? docbook and svn?09:30
ajmitchLaserJock: you start off the packaging from scratch with something like what I did?09:30
siretartor just wiki?09:30
sistpotyLaserJock: rocks, as motu's keep saying ;)09:30
LaserJockit is part of the doc team I am now a member 09:30
LaserJockajmitch: yep09:30
siretartanything else?09:31
LaserJockI started off with what Unfgiven did (currently on doc.ubuntu.com) but have decided to redo from the beginning09:31
siretartLaserJock: lets move that discussion to #ubuntu-motu, okay?09:31
LaserJockyes please09:31
siretartok09:31
sistpotyif there is nothing else, I think it might be good to at least schedule another motu-meeting... 09:32
ajmitchunofficial motu meeting over?09:32
siretartI think so09:32
siretartdoes anyone have some time to write a summary about this meeting?09:32
ajmitchsistpoty: since this one wasn't really scheduled, and just happened on top of the media meeting09:32
sistpotyajmitch: yes, but there wasn't a motu-meeting for a long time... and I guess it would be good to have a real motu-meeting in the near future (1/2 weeks from now)?09:33
siretartwe mainly discussed 3 points: revu sending emails, \sh request of bugnumbers and LaserJock PackagingGuide outline09:33
siretartanyone?09:33
ajmitchsistpoty: january, please09:33
sistpotyajmitch: yes, certainly a better choice ;)09:33
ajmitchtoo many people might be away otherwise09:33
siretartok. then I'll do that09:34
=== ajmitch will be gone for a week :)
sistpotythx siretart09:34
raphink:)09:34
siretartok. Thanks for your attendance, it was a great meeting!09:34
siretartmeeting over!09:34
dholbach thanks siretart09:34
siretartpuh09:34
ajmitchok09:34
siretartnow lets go to work09:34
=== raphink runs all around and goes to play out
sistpotyhehe09:35
ajmitchdiscuss next meeting time on list09:35
raphinkhehe09:35
sistpotyajmitch++09:35
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sivangwas it MOTU meeting just now?10:02
sistpotysivang: that was an improvised/unannounced motu meeting10:03
sivangsistpoty: ah, I see10:03
sivangsistpoty: figures, since I didn't see it in fridge10:03
sistpotysivang: it was supposed to be only motumedia-meeting10:04
ajmitchbut a mail was sent to the MOTU list with MOTUMeeting in the title10:04
siretartyeah, my bad. sorryh10:06
sivangsistpoty: np, I was mostly offline anyway, was just surprised to see what looked like a motu meeting that wasn't announced.10:07
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