=== ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === doko_ [n=doko@dslb-084-059-078-065.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === calc [n=ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rob1 [n=Robert@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mitch_ [n=mitch@61.68.13.32] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === calc [n=ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === siretart [i=siretart@ubuntu/member/siretart] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === calc_ [n=ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === calc [n=ccheney@ip70-185-4-246.ma.dl.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === klepas [n=klepas@203-213-31-142.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === BenC [n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === No1Viking [n=Viking@h-83-140-104-3.ip.cust.port80.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.32.253] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Yagisan [n=jamie@60-240-87-69-nsw-pppoe.tpgi.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mitch__ [n=mitch@61.68.38.112] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1DC3.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.32.253] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === daniels [n=daniels@amnesiac.heapspace.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jbailey [n=jbailey@modemcable139.249-203-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === janimo [n=jani@Home03207.cluj.astral.ro] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === seb128 [n=seb128@ubuntu/member/seb128] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1DC3.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === pitti [n=pitti@ubuntu/member/pitti] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:59] Hi [09:00] hello [09:00] hi [09:00] *yawn* [09:00] good morning [09:00] jbailey: what's the time there? [09:00] 03h00 === infinity [n=adconrad@loki.0c3.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:00] ouch [09:00] kamion's our glorious leader today, innit? === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === iwj [n=ian@xenophobe.extern.relativity.greenend.org.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:01] yup [09:01] so should be swift and to the point \0/ [09:01] jbailey: you would certainly agree to shifting the whole cycle 3 hours backwards, right? :) [09:01] JaneW: you appear to have an overly big head ;) [09:01] pitti: no way man, that means I get meetings at 0400 [09:02] pitti: I don't see how it would matter. It would just make the next one 4am, wouldn't it? [09:02] Or is it a 6 hours rotation? [09:02] it was 4am for me last week :P [09:02] is kamion here yet? [09:02] daniels: you don't have meetings at 4am? we should change that ;-P [09:02] pitti: My goal is to go out dancing on these nights and do my update from my 770 at some access point. [09:02] Kamion has vacations? [09:03] Yes. [09:03] doko: no tany more I don't [09:03] And if you try to take them away from him, he WILL hurt you. [09:03] jbailey: six-hour rotation [09:03] jbailey: great idea [09:03] infinity: he was going to show up today for the meeting, AIUI. [09:03] I shall start with my best BenC impersonation... [09:04] *yawn* [09:04] BenC Hey. I don't think I'm going to be able to stay awake another 1.5 hours [09:04] BenC here's my status: [09:04] BenC * Major work this past week: Processed over 400 bugs on the kernel (all of them), closing ~175 (either by fixing, confirming they were fixed or closing because of inactivity). Needed this to be done before Flight 2 so that it was easier to process incoming bug reports. [09:04] BenC * testing-server-hardware: Not started: Need to begin putting together the test suite. [09:04] BenC * preventing-hardware-support-regressions: BLOCKED: Automated build system is under development. However, the free space on concordia is not stable enough to use (fluctuates daily). Current i386 build environment takes 3+Gigs (build+git-repo+ccache). [09:04] BenC * ubuntu-server-kernel: In progress: Mostly done. Just need to add a server target for non-i386 architectures. These are much more simplistic than than the i386 kernels. Should be included with the next kernel upload (2.6.15-9.11). [09:04] everyone happy with that? [09:05] Ecstatic. [09:05] daniels: you want me to cut and paste you too? [09:05] yeah :) [09:05] ta [09:06] daniels: this week: xorg rc3, fix a few FTBFSes, chase down bizzare xorg-server bug that makes it unusable on i810, start on making xserver-xorg maintainer scripts more clear, fix xvfb bugs, take the plunge and upgrade to udev new world order [09:06] next week: leave tomorrow, fix xorg-server harder, continue on making scripts clear [09:06] x-roadmap: keep on truckin' [09:06] blocked: none [09:06] xorg-server bug -- core server bug that renders the whole thing unusable, and the inbuilt backtrace stuff doesn't give any BT at all, and gdb hangs when I attempt to attach to it. \o/ [09:06] x-raodmap: Mostly there, just tracking continued version updates. keep on truckin' [09:06] yeah, so that makes the server a no-go for now. i'm trying to track it down with the other upstream guys at the moment. [09:06] I know, why don;t I just do the meeting on my own! [09:06] JaneW : Sure, I'll /msg you my update. :) [09:06] release roadmap for xorg has us doing rc4 ... right now, actually, otherwise known as 'rc seriously'. [09:07] daniels: that sounds pretty bad, is there a resolution in sight? [09:07] daniels: do you know the status of the name sync of the gl/glu packages in unstable/dapper? [09:07] so we should be done with that fairly soon. so hopefully the server will be fixed, which will fix a whole lot of bugs people are currently blaming on nautilus, and then I can get to fixing the scripts. [09:07] JaneW: yeah, it's only within the last two weeks, so we've got a fairly small target in terms of finding the culprit. === artnay [i=jirig@shell.evtek.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:07] daniels: ok good [09:07] daniels : Oh, also, xserver-common needs to get built from somewhere other than xorg sources. The core -> common dep was stuck in as a stopgap because the world broke without it. [09:08] side-track are ALL merges done yet? [09:08] doko: i'm working with gravity, the general view is that we'll do a, er, nmu of mesa sooner rather than later. === pitti did [09:08] infinity: xserver-common will cease to exist the next time I upload xorg. what's the actual issue? missing /etc/X11/X? [09:08] daniels: thanks! [09:08] ok dholbach [09:08] daniels : Missing X binary, missing dexconf. [09:08] merges: http://tinyurl.com/dgvf2 [09:09] * inclusion-of-docs: uploaded an improved update to dapper - breezy-update yet to come [09:09] * formal-test-plans: some clarification on the pages, is wiki/Testing now - more Tests and more Media tests to come (Media meeting today) [09:09] * this week done: gnome 2.13.3, bugs [09:09] * this week to come: more bugs, {motu,media,desktop} team meeting, talk at umeet.uninet.edu [09:09] * next week: bug day, more bugs, merges? [09:09] daniels : The latter being particularly crucial, the former breaking GDM's default config. [09:09] dholbach: thanks [09:09] infinity: *shrug*, xserver-xorg should dep it for dexconf and xorg-common should dep it for the symlink. but dexconf is moving over to xserver-xorg anyway. [09:09] doko [09:09] this week: [09:09] - toolchain-roadmap: minor updates (binutils, gcj-4.1), amd64-biarch (still blocked) [09:09] - toolchain-dapper+1: blocked by preparation of wanna-build and buildd infrastructure (currently ongoing) [09:09] - openoffice.org: support work [09:09] - merges: doing more merges not on the list; we don't have merge reports where debian and ubuntu have different tarballs (will be addressed before next merge before UVF (Keybuk)). [09:09] next week: [09:09] - python-roadmap: python-central update (delayed again) [09:10] doko: openoffcie is listed as proposed - is it a Dapper Goal? [09:10] doko: and java roadmap is still not approved... [09:11] JaneW: I hope it is, but that spec is informational anyway. I'll prepare separate topics for the next report [09:11] but it's low priority [09:11] doko: ok thanks [09:11] JaneW: can I go last please? I mixed up times [09:11] mvo: sure [09:11] (s/xorg-common/xserver-xorg-core/ in my last sentence. headdesk.) [09:12] ok fabbione : * server-candy: announce is out, community is growing fast. md5sum [09:12] client did his first run yesterday. Upload to the archive will happen [09:12] relatively soon. It is blocked by a couple of bugs, one missing feature [09:12] and admins to create the server side. Wrote the PostfixCandy spec for [09:12] mdz but it looks like not doable. /etc in RCS has been discussed with [09:12] bzr guy. New spec wrote to address the remaining issues. [09:12] * ubuntu-cluster: no progress this week. Still needs testing! People [09:12] should help a bit here. [09:12] * probe-for-root-filesystem: no progress this week. [09:12] * boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem. [09:12] * merges: zlib - still pending libc6-i386-dev, one minor pending but [09:12] it's no hurry at all. [09:12] * last week: a lot of md5sum client and server-candy work, prepared for [09:12] today's talk. [09:12] * next week: keep going server-candy full speed. kernel security. [09:12] hopefully finish some cluster tests and start working on new cluster [09:12] crack. Friday 16th i will start a bit later than usual but i will pick [09:12] up the hours the same day. === Sepheebear [n=SepheeBe@cpe-68-175-48-109.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:13] JaneW : Me next? [09:13] infinity: hit it [09:13] last week: [09:13] - Did almost nothing I said I'd do last week, instead concentrating on making sure *-desktop and *-live were installable, so we could build CDs, getting linux-restricted-modules into shape, as well as other bugfixings and odds and ends. [09:13] - Made vga16fb and usplash default to a more sane resolution that seems to work well for everyone, this became the default in Flight-2. [09:13] next week: [09:13] - Getting the toolchain-dapper+1 stuff going for doko on the buildds [09:13] - Everything else I said I'd do last week, but didn't. [09:13] haha [09:13] iwj [09:14] Firefox maintenance: Working on a new release right now, to ship libnspr/libnss from firefox, and other fixes. BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation didn't happen and Matthew East and I haven't quite settled on the scheme for Dapper. [09:14] DefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report. Firefox needs more other work too. [09:14] AutomatedTesting: I have implemented the first part (basic chroot-using virtualisation script). Will probably pick up the rest after Christmas. It would still be nice to have that straw man from Robert Collins. [09:14] ThinClientLocalDevices: spec is still in Drafting. *BLOCKED* [09:14] DeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked. [09:14] Holiday: tomorrow (Friday) is my last working day of 2005. [09:14] iwj: yay nspr/nss ;) [09:14] pitti++ [09:14] pitti: It's real joy there in the build system, I can tell you. [09:14] [09:14] build systems are all shit. [09:14] everything in ffox is real joy, I believe [09:14] cool [09:14] jbailey: [09:15] * ToolchainRoadmap: Delayed from last week to this week. doko found a bug in my assumptions (I had forgotten about ldconfig biarch love. Decided to do LinuxThreads/NPTL biarch for this too. Both are now passing all tests. Now that flight-2 is out, should be next 24h. [09:15] * ToolchainRoadmapNg: After the glibc biarch, will start to evaluate glibc needs. Want to start collecting feedback on dropping pre-i686 per outstanding issues . [09:15] * General: glibc merge delayed by this as announced previously. Punting grub bugs also delayed - it was a busy week. This week, I plan to see which of the locale bugs were fixed with the Belocs merge. I have a slight suspicion that it's all of them. Oh yeah, and OMG, it's 3am. [09:15] jbailey: no it;s not it 3:15 :P [09:15] jdub?? [09:15] JaneW: Sure, you can include that under my status. =) [09:15] Can I suggest at this point that Matthew East and I should talk to langpack/rosetta maintainer about BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation and what to do for dapper ? [09:16] iwj: sure, 'do it' [09:16] iwj : That would be a pitti and a Carlos, probably. [09:16] infinity: Ah, thanks :-). [09:16] yep [09:16] iwj: I'd like to catch up with what that issues are, because for Breezy it seemed unsolvable. [09:16] probably me [09:16] jdub has example-content, via e-mail he said: Yeah, sorry - too much traveling to attend the meetings or get anything done on it. I plan to start doing stuff on it as soon as I return home from OSDC , and will hopefully get a huge chunk of it done before Christmas break. [09:16] mdke: AYT? Let's not have it now but when is good for you ? [09:17] kamion: still not here? [09:17] I'll get an e-mail update from him... [09:17] Isn't he on holiday still ? [09:17] JaneW: i will talk to jdub about that... we need it for the media-related parts of formal-test-plans [09:17] iwj: "still" as in, "for the last 12 hours", yes. [09:17] yes, he said he was going to pop in for the meeting, might be sleeping though... [09:17] jbailey, infinity: looks like I should put some toolchain work on my plan for next week ;) [09:18] dholbach: yes please do, might spur him along... [09:18] JaneW: i hope so :) [09:18] keybuk? [09:18] mithrandir: I mean, since the last time we asked about him :-). [09:18] ok I'll be keybuk too: udev-roadmap: done; we're pretty much at the stage where the bugs we're [09:18] finding are turning out to be kernel bugs rather than udev bugs now. [09:18] hardware-activation: having some issues with network interface [09:18] activation, making sure we bring up things like static tun/ppp/etc. [09:18] interfaces without blocking on ethernet which are handled by udev, but [09:18] nothing serious [09:18] streamlined-boot: underway, was waiting on Flight 2 and now that's out [09:18] will be uploading bits over the next few days [09:18] network-magic: various discussions, have a keen guy looking at the [09:18] atheros issues for us [09:19] krstic? [09:19] lathiat? [09:19] sivang? [09:19] Mithrandir? [09:19] anyone? [09:19] openoffice-amd64: no changes [09:19] live-cd-performance: progress with the simplified live cd, as in, I have bootcharts and we can start chopping time off the boot by making changes such as unionfs vs devmapper, cloop vs squashfs, etc. [09:19] one-true-path: no progress [09:19] simplified-livecd: in place, working, released with flight 2. Needs polish and cleanups as well as usplash integration [09:19] media-integrity-check: no changes, but now unblocked. Should be trivial [09:20] network-authentication: no progress [09:20] general: I've been working on the simplified live cd infrastructure. It has come a long way and is pleasant to work with and easy to test. Some pieces are still missing. [09:20] next week: some vacation, but before that I'll look at getting simplified live finished up, and if that goes well, continue with media-integrity check and poke at the live-cd-performance stuff [09:20] Oh, Kamion says he'll be in this meeting. [09:20] blocked on: nothing in particular, I have plenty of stuff to do until I get from VAC [09:20] I mean, in warthogs. [09:20] JaneW: hi, I'm here. been way busy at work, there hasn't been much changes since last time, I hope to be able to do some work on it on weekend time. [09:20] Mithrandir: so your block is gone..? [09:20] JaneW: yes. [09:20] sivang: ok great, thanks [09:20] Mithrandir: good. [09:20] JaneW: at least, no blocks I'm aware of. [09:21] ogra: you're next and sorry for missing yesterday's meeting - we must talk after this... [09:21] * thin-client-sound: 95% implemented, code submitted to mdz for review, spec corrected accordingly, awaiting approval [09:21] * thin-client-local-devices: no progress [09:21] * thin-client-memory-usage: no progress [09:21] * thin-client-faster-startup: fine on recent HW http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/edubuntu/dapper-20051212-1.png, spec changes awaiting approval [09:21] * gnome-screensaver-default-image: pinged mark about images, no answer yet, will ping again :) [09:21] * general: X breakage on the thin clients turned out to be only trident needs stilla debug session, mdz's suggestions for thin client sound implemented, flight2 tested on amd64/i386, themeable ldm finished, approved and included, ltsp multiarch patch approved and in dapper, no progress on new edubuntu-artwork yet, no more hwdb-client work yet. inspect X autodetection on thin clients for possible speedups per mdz suggestion not done yet, only found [09:21] that most of the preseed fixes we got from debian are not working at all. found that thin clients cant NFS mount anymore with the new dhcpd we ship due to a silly RFC (No. 2131) interpretation of the "siaddr" field by dhcpd upstream. [09:21] next weeks plans: nag mark more for gnome-screensaver-default-image space pics, implement thin-client-memory-usage (which will also fix the powerpc bug for ltsp), fix up edubuntu-artwork, find out if the preseeding X stuff is solvable and solve it for the options where possible, trident X debugging, hwdb-client bugfixing. find solution for upgrades of dhcpd. [09:22] which speedups? [09:22] daniels, X ? [09:22] x autodetection, yes [09:22] that shifting times thingy is killing me... [09:22] (of the meetings) [09:22] mdz wants to put the debconf communicate call into one call instead of 20 [09:22] zhaz should speed up quite a bit [09:22] ogra: dhcpd upgrade breaks? [09:23] pitti, yes, for nfs mounted root filesystems [09:23] ogra: no movement on spec approvals yet? Still waiting on mdz for reviews? [09:23] pitti, http://wiki.ltsp.org/twiki/bin/view/Ltsp/DhcpdSiaddr [09:23] ogra: omg, dhcp disturbs nfs? that sounds scary [09:24] JaneW, mem usage is approved, sound is done ... but mdz had no time before holiday to review and faster startup needs minor changes [09:24] pitti, it is ... :/ [09:24] JaneW, for local devices i still need mdz and sbalneav to get together [09:24] ogra ok thanks. [09:25] damn, has that not happened yet?! [09:25] nope [09:25] ogra: the need is high, but it doesn't sem to be getting prioritized... [09:25] *sigh* [09:25] pitti: next [09:25] not much to say this week, but [09:25] this week: heaps of security updates, main inclusion reviews, and a few bits of package fixes, etc; no time to pursue specs [09:25] next week: get PHP security update done with Adam, catch up with my long neglected bug mail, try to debug printing stuff a little [09:25] automatic-printer-conf: PLAN: investigate hal-cups-utils from Fedora for exporting cups configuration to hal [09:26] JaneW, it it (and always was) a low/mid prio spec [09:26] *it is [09:26] however, there are some more security updates to do, so there won't be much spec work next week either [09:27] *grumble* ffmpeg *grumble* [09:27] pitti: hint for next week: avahi promotion :p [09:27] pitti: ok thanks *pat pat* [09:27] seb128: [09:27] ooh, yes please on avahi [09:27] hide-admin-tools-to-users: has been implemented previous week but the summary of the previous meeting has no mention of what I wrote on it, should I mention it again? [09:27] d'oh, sorry I'm late, slept in [09:27] video-playback: gstreamer0.10 uploaded, gst-plugins-base0.10 almost ready: will be uploaded today, will continue on that next week [09:27] other: GNOME 2.13.3 [09:27] next week: video-playback and dapper-desktop-plan [09:27] I'll give my update at the end [09:28] yay gst 0.10 [09:28] hi Kamion [09:28] Morning Kamion [09:28] Kamion: thought that was the case. np... we have continued ;) [09:28] JaneW: cool, gst 0.10 removes the gstreamer-audio-backend blocker [09:28] pitti: with gst0.10 you can read songs without gap when switching :) [09:28] seb128: short and sweet... [09:28] pitti: great [09:29] s/read/play/ [09:29] Riddell: ? [09:29] last week: kdebindings, kdevelop packaging, xpdf security, simplify-kde, flight-2 testing, revu, finished merges, kubuntu-package-manager design discussions [09:29] next week: kubuntu-system-tools, hide-admin-tools-to-users, kubuntu-documentation packaging, poking KDE MOTU into getting all KDE universe packages installable, investigate getting KDE to work with CUPS 1.2 [09:29] and the kubuntu hug day! :) [09:29] dholbach: especially important [09:29] .-) [09:30] eek, zombie smiley [09:30] ok just mvo and kamion left ... and then merge nagging :P [09:31] did: [09:31] - AutomaticUpgrades: update-manager/python-apt with the required support is in the archive. The actual upgrade tool still needs more work [09:31] - AutomaticUpdates: integrated into the apt cron job, not yet upload (will do this today) [09:31] - ThirdPartyPackages: big cleanups in GnomeAppInstall, the code is really a mess. Initial support for channels is in (jbailey bzr is the example channel) [09:31] - some spec work about "PimpMyLanguageSelector" with jdub [09:31] - some cmd-not-found work, big problem: "alternatives", very hard to parse, but [09:31] required to give useful results for e.g. emacs [09:31] - HideAdminTools/DapperDesktopPlan spec work for update-notifier [09:31] - DapperDesktopPlan work for notification-daemon [09:31] need opinion: [09:31] - should the "automatic security upgrades" stuff be backported to breezy (in a seperate repository) so that people can test it more easily? [09:31] blocking: [09:31] - support for package recommends: waiting on mdz for a decision [09:31] will do: [09:31] - more work on gnome-app-install/ThirdPartyPackages spec [09:31] now that's an update! [09:32] thanks mvo: sme of your others have been hard to decode ;) [09:32] mvo: backported to a private archive on people? [09:32] pitti: yes [09:32] well, can't hurt in any way :) [09:32] JaneW: mvo deserves a golden star now, right? :) [09:32] since there aren't security updates for dapper yet [09:32] the problem is that we have no dapper-security currently, so it's a bit hard to test it on dapper :) [09:32] at least not proper ones, just regular uploads === mvo agrees with pitti === JaneW hands mvo a virtual GoldStar (tm) [09:33] I'd go for private archive for now and a post to ubuntu-users@ === rob1 [n=Robert@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:33] With Soyuz will those be created at the start of the dev cycle? [09:33] I suspect they probably ought to be to make testing things like this possible. [09:33] jbailey: dapper-{security,updates} already exist *now* [09:33] there's just nothing in them [09:33] Riddell: any progress on getting your specs approved? [09:33] Ah, okay. [09:33] Yes, the lack of packages in them makes it hard to test automatic upgrades. :) [09:34] ue-gnome-ui: Discussed accessibility requirements with Henrik. [09:34] ubuntu-express-bootloader: Was blocked for almost the entire week on the lack of a live CD. I have that now, but only as of yesterday, so just started on getting a reasonable test environment here. [09:34] Quick! Someone find a php hole! =) === jbailey hides. [09:34] cd-bootloader: Lots of bootloader SHINY done in the form of gfxboot-theme-ubuntu; deployed in Flight CD 2. This is now implemented with the exception of keymap selection; that's blocked until I know what kind of input simplified-live-cd expects here. Some bugs reported but nothing major yet. [09:34] misc: Flight CD 2 done, which took way too long. Helped Tollef out with casper/initramfs a bit, and eventually decided to switch to simplified-live-cd. [09:34] blocked: There aren't enough hours in the day to do Flight CD 2 and real work. [09:34] jbailey : Fixing about 10 right now. [09:34] jbailey: I have heaps of them [09:34] Kamion: simplified-live-cd will do with what I get ATM.. at least, I think so. [09:35] Mithrandir: (I think passing kbd-chooser/method= as we would for d-i should be fine?) [09:35] Kamion: yes [09:35] Kamion: just saw gfxboot today, shiny! [09:35] ok [09:35] JaneW: not really, kubuntu-express is pending review from Kamion, who is now on holiday. kubuntu-package-manager bounty needs approval/decline from mdz who is also on holiday [09:35] Kamion/pitti: I might want a little bit of hand-holding to generate locales correctly for live. [09:35] we urgently need a locales discussion [09:35] Kamion: Is the flight-2 time stuff that all needed to be done anyway, or is there more that the rest of us need to do to avoid blocking you? [09:35] Riddell: ok, hopefully we can get them sorted in early Jan then...? [09:35] with Kamion, jbailey, doko, and me [09:35] Riddell: ah, I hadn't noticed kubuntu-express, will have a look at a free point [09:36] jbailey: was mostly horribly blocked on the lack of a live CD [09:36] ok let's talk merges http://tinyurl.com/dgvf2 [09:36] JaneW: just a sec [09:37] pitti: Scheduled it for any afternoon for you guys and I'm easily there. [09:37] jbailey: possibly a little more initiative somewhere could've been taken on getting that done, but I can't really complain because it was all stuck behind the new kernel nonsense for ages [09:37] I'm wondering if we should have small freezes around the time when we try to get the live cd out, since we too often end up in situations where the live fs generation fails [09:37] I would like to have more people randomly testing CD images, though [09:37] as in, not just before release - as we discussed before [09:37] which is _really_ annoying when we're trying to release a cd and busy fixing other stuff. [09:38] casper changes now involve rebuilding the live filesystem, as of simplified-live-cd [09:38] Kamion: i burned the whole bunch and will get some tests done today [09:38] Mithrandir: i think just saying 'don't upload shit that will break shit' and compelling everyone to comply via social means will be better than hard freezes [09:38] dholbach: thanks [09:38] I tested today's live, will test today's install, too [09:38] daniels: possibly, but we didn't even do that, which meant having random gnome packages uploaded broke the world underneath our feet. [09:39] yes, hard freezes have the bad side-effect that once you start one everybody expects you to release something soon [09:39] Mithrandir: so try that? [09:39] which might not be appropriate depending on how broken the result is [09:39] and it really does impede everyone else's work a lot [09:39] can we just try "soft freezes", then? [09:40] Kamion: we need to gather some more people around doing specifically that (testing cd images) , ideally from the community. I would have helped, but currently work stuff don't let me get to it. [09:40] Kamion: I'd suggested it before but not seen any interest, but I think maybe an "installfest day" once a month like dholbach does with the bug days might be effective? [09:40] I would like it if people uploading packages could try to arrange that those uploads will break as little as possible if they're built on only some architectures [09:40] Kamion: Then you know you could set aside that day knowing that you'll mostly be collecting bug reports and triaging errors, etc. [09:40] especially not pull in new packages from universe [09:40] jbailey: I strongly think it needs to be spread out, not concentrated; we already have installfests just before releases [09:40] jbailey: i will work more on the testing plan and try to announce it big [09:40] Kamion: I was thinking like monthly. [09:41] jbailey: the problem we have is that we don't find out about problems often enough [09:41] (or just ask kamion if you have world-endingly breaking stuff to upload. i was about to upload 169 packages right as he was trying to release flight 2.) [09:41] i thought about enumerating the "topics" in the testplan, so people could refer to them in bugs and we could better keep track of those numbers [09:41] Kamion: For me alot of the time it just doesn't occur to me to test the CD mid-release. There's always other tasks that have to be done. [09:41] jbailey: I don't want to arrange that I only find out about problems blocking my (supposedly) two-weekly CD releases on a monthly basis. :-) [09:41] Mithrandir: when there is a new GNOME every 2 weeks and it take 3 days to package we can't really say "wait a few days before uploading it may break something" [09:41] seb128: if it didn't break so badly when i386 builds but powerpc is lagging a bit, that would be lovely [09:42] there are a lot of tight arch: all <-> any dependencies [09:42] seb128: I care less about segfaults and application breakage than pure uninstallability. [09:42] JaneW, that bugzilla search is broken .... [09:42] seb128 : Uploading really wasn't a big deal, it was just horribly timed. If someone had asked you to wait 4 hours, it would have been fine. So, y'know, "oops". :) [09:42] Kamion: right, but I consider that an archive bug ... [09:42] ogra: i did it, what's wrong? [09:42] JaneW, or MOM is ... [09:42] oh, for goodness' sake, I guess we'll never get anything done then [09:42] infinity: I'm fine to wait 4 hours if somebody say so, it's just not easy to guess ;) === Kamion declares all his bugs archive bugs and goes home. :-) [09:42] Kamion: what do you mean? [09:42] haha :) [09:43] seb128: no, that's packaging, which you can work around [09:43] seb128: dude, be realistic, the archive has been like that since Debian started [09:43] dholbach, there are merges that are no merges (i.e. we have newer versions, see kino) [09:43] seb128 : The next time we seem to be on a "we want installable livefs's" warpath, I'll be sure to try to warn you. [09:43] infinity: thanks [09:43] seb128: it might be nice if the archive didn't work that way, but it doesn't, and it's not ging to get fixed anytime soon [09:43] ogra: talk to mom :) [09:43] http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=UPSTREAM&bug_status=PENDINGUPLOAD&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=merging&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=merging&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=merging&field0-0-3=status_whiteboard&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=merging&order= [09:43] map_assigned_to.login_name,bugs.resolution [09:43] (err, s/doesn't/does/) [09:43] dholbach, i do :) [09:43] elmo: yeah, but changing the whole GNOME to not do that is not trivial neither [09:44] I think we should move on to merges now.. [09:44] JaneW: are we supposed to catch up with the new merges? that's an awful lot of work at the current time [09:44] pitti: and the list is incomplete [09:44] I thought merges were low priority for now? [09:44] I didn't expect us to be prioritising merges right now, no [09:44] and we had to catch up again before freeze [09:45] ok, *phew* [09:45] s/had/will have/ rather :) [09:45] I thought that had changed, since JaneW wants to nag about it :) [09:45] UVF isn't until 19th January [09:45] ok so are all the old ones done then? === JaneW is v happy to NOT nag [09:45] Ugh, only 1month to UVF? [09:45] not all, but most of them are [09:46] are the merge bugs with assignee as debzilla free to take? [09:46] they were previous week before starting the automatic bugs again no? [09:46] I count nine old ones [09:46] Kamion: we still haven't merged all packages at least once, the ones with differing tarballs in unstable/dapper are missing. is it too late to touch these just before UVF? [09:46] ajmitch: yes [09:46] (within reason) [09:46] mdz said explicitly that merge bugs should be set to P5 prio [09:46] ok [09:46] doko: Scott said there was a whole *one* of those that MOM hadn't reported [09:46] so i didnt expect to prioritize them now [09:46] Kamion: oh, I didn't know that [09:46] so that issue doesn't concern me at the moment [09:46] ogra: new merge bugs only, not the old ones [09:46] doko: he said it to you :-) [09:47] and MOM filed bugs for packages that are never in ubuntu ... [09:47] *newer [09:47] everyone, please do check for merge bugs with bugzilla ids less than 20000 === doko hides, didn't see that ... [09:47] (see my comment about kino) [09:47] ogra: it'S about merging, not about newer stuff [09:48] those are the old ones: Riddell has 1, infinity 3, doko 2, pitti 1, jbailey 1, fabbione 1 [09:48] dholbach, there isnt anything to merge ... it should sort out the 0 byte patches ... i guess there are more [09:48] I realise they're all the really hard ones [09:48] cdrtools is still broken [09:48] I won't upload it [09:48]