/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/21/#edubuntu.txt

fitzwillieAnyone have a moment?12:07
mhzyup, me fitzwillie 12:07
fitzwillieAhh, thanks mhz... so, I'm trying to install Edu for the first time...12:07
fitzwillieAnd I am having trouble - so I need to ask some basic (perhapsdumb) questions)12:08
fitzwilliefirst, is it the entire .iso file (as a single file) that I should burn to a cd?  And that should be self-booting when I boot my target machine?12:09
fitzwillie(assuming I have fiddled my bios correctly, or used a boot manager)12:09
lucasvofitzwillie: yes it is12:10
mhzfitzwillie: do you have ubuntu already installed ?12:11
fitzwillieNo, it's an somewhat older x86 machine - I already formatted the hd to bee a bootable linux partition (using DSL booted from floppy & CDR)12:12
fitzwilliebut I can't get the iso cdrom to boot, either naturally, or usign a boot manager from a floppy.12:13
lucasvofitzwillie: you won't need that, just download edubuntucd and burn it12:13
lucasvofitzwillie: is a winxp install disk booting ?12:13
lucasvofitzwillie: or some other bootable disc?12:13
lucasvofor e.g. of other linux distribution or norton rescue disk or windows ...?12:14
fitzwillieI've been able to boot using DSL (damn small linux) and another CD I made bootable.12:14
lucasvoso it is the problem of the edubuntu iso12:14
fitzwillieI wonder how easy it is to damage the .iso when burning (I noted the warning about exceeding 8x speeds)12:14
lucasvothat could be a problem12:14
lucasvodid you check the md5sum?12:15
fitzwillieno I didn;t... not clear on that procedure.12:15
lucasvofitzwillie: try to burn it again if you have enough cd-r :D12:15
fitzwillieheh, yeah, plenty of them ;)  Okay,I'll try that... perhaps at a nice slor 2x or 4x write speed.12:16
lucasvofitzwillie: I had problems during download, I would also try to download it again12:17
lucasvo:D12:17
lucasvoif 2nd burned cd fails12:17
fitzwillieWill do.  I was just worried I was missing something from a technical perspective, but it sounds like I was doing things correctly.12:17
fitzwillieI'm a moderate newbie to linux, so this is an adventure.12:18
lucasvoedubuntu is quite amazing :D12:18
lucasvoit is extremly easy and good configured12:18
fitzwillieIt sounds like it - I really want to get it working for my boys.12:18
lucasvofitzwillie: ah, how old are they?12:19
fitzwillie5 & 712:19
lucasvoI am actually almost in the age I could still use it :D12:19
lucasvothat's good for them12:19
fitzwillieI need to give them something other than the XBox to play with ;)12:20
lucasvoxbox is quite powerful one could even run edubuntu on it :D12:20
lucasvoespecially the new xbox36012:20
fitzwillieLOL, yeah, I've heard you could do that... I don't think I'm going to go quite that far, though ;)12:20
fitzwillieI did get Damn Small Linux running on an old laptop with 32mb ram, though12:21
lucasvo500$ for a pc better than my normal workstation :D12:21
fitzwilliehaven't had a chance to try it with a wireless card yet, though.12:21
lucasvouh12:21
lucasvoyou don't want to try it :D12:22
lucasvoit isn't that easy12:22
lucasvochance that you have the correct card is less than 0.8 % 12:22
lucasvomaybe this is not correct, let's say > 5 %12:22
fitzwillieWell, it's less of a priority than the Edubuntu right now anyway... 12:23
fitzwillieAnyway, I appreciate your help... I'll give it a go again tonight.  Wish me luck!12:24
lucasvotonight?, where are you from?12:24
lucasvoI will go to bed now :D12:24
lucasvoit's already 01:00 :D12:25
fitzwillieCalifornia - pacific time - only 3:25 in the afternoon.12:25
fitzwillieThursday12:25
lucasvoah12:25
lucasvocalifornia 12:25
lucasvomy second home 12:25
fitzwillieLet's see, ten hours ahead puts you in Europe?12:26
lucasvoyes12:26
lucasvoZurich, Switzerland12:26
fitzwillieVery nice!12:27
lucasvowhere do you live?12:27
lucasvoSilicon Valey?12:27
fitzwillieYeah, near San Jose.12:28
juliuxlucasvo, we should found a german edubuntu channel ;)12:28
lucasvomaybe I will move to san francisco next summer and live there for a year at my aunts house12:29
lucasvojuliux: why not12:29
lucasvojuliux: join #edubuntu-de12:29
juliuxlucasvo, because we have many people on fairs who are interesset in edubuntu12:30
fitzwillielucasvo: it's a lovely place to live - very urban.  Probably almost as chilly as Zurich when the fog comes in, too ;)12:30
lucasvofitzwillie: I was there in autumn12:32
lucasvoit is indeed very similar12:32
lucasvojuliux: I don't understand you, fair?12:32
juliuxlucasvo, what you dont understand?12:32
fitzwillieAnyway, I'm off - many thanks.  I'll report back if I'm lucky.12:33
lucasvojuliux: have many people on fairs who are interesset in edubuntu12:33
juliuxlucasvo, ah12:33
juliuxlucasvo, we have in germany many people who want to know more about edubuntu12:33
lucasvoaha12:34
juliuxlucasvo, i present *ubuntu on fairs in germany12:34
lucasvofairs?12:34
juliuxmessen12:34
lucasvoaha12:34
lucasvois ubuntu at 22c3?12:34
juliuxi dont think so12:34
lucasvomust be an interesting job to do ?12:34
juliuxyes it is very interesting12:34
juliuxi have done this for the last 2 years for gnome in germany12:35
lucasvoI wanted to make a speech there about ronja but somehow missed the date12:35
lucasvoanyway I go now... good night12:36
juliuxgn812:37
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agente87hi12:51
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mhzjsgotangco: hi12:53
mhzjsgotangco: bzr is happily living in my box12:54
jsgotangcomhz, good day m812:54
jsgotangcoawesome12:54
jsgotangco7 commands will get you to nirvana12:54
mhzjsgotangco: sorry to be that lazy, but no which dir/branch should i get?12:54
mhzno problem, the tutorial is very VERY KISS12:55
mhzi liked it a lot12:55
=== mhz is already in nirvana .... me is ubuntu member! :D
agente87has anybody installed Jahshaka?01:00
agente87there is no debian package01:01
agente87??01:01
mhzagente87: never heard of that01:01
agente87it a video editing software01:02
mhzBurgwork: can we use bzr to fetch edubuntu ISO files? (kind of rsync like, to download only changes)01:12
=== mhz is so happy with bzr!!! I had used SVN long ago but BZR rocks
Burgworkmhz, hmm, unless the iso is in a bzr repo01:13
mhzBurgwork: so it will work perfectly? replacing rsync fetching ISO changes?01:15
Burgworkmhz, I doubt it. Rsync and bzr are really different tools01:21
mhzindeed, but i heard there were some 'bzr-rsync' plugins01:23
mhzbut i may be very wrong01:23
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NavireEdububtu, run fine on enviroment corporation?01:38
NavireHave life here?01:49
mhzNavire: hi01:49
mhzEdubuntu can be used on diff environments.01:50
NavireThank01:50
mhzNavire: what's on your mind?01:50
NavireMy olds client Petium 100 32RAM and floppy, no boot PXE.01:51
NavireMHZ - Is good man!! :) 01:52
mhzhehehe01:53
mhzNavire: each client should have 48 MB ram01:53
mhzand booting can be 'forced' via floppy01:54
NavireOk01:54
NavireNo problem with Olds  Petium 100Mhz?01:54
NavireRun slow?01:55
mhznot sure but shouldnt be01:55
mhzall the load is on the server side and the network01:55
NavireI am using LTSP in my home. Working cool.01:56
NavireBut Ubuntu + LTSP the official site, no package Ubuntu.01:56
NavireI will try Edubuntu.01:57
NavireI like will test Edu.01:57
mhzhehe, well Edubuntu has meant very good things01:58
NavireI will donwloading ISO now, and install there.01:58
mhzNavire: edubuntu = ubuntu + LTSP + education apps.01:58
NavireI know.01:59
mhzand the edubuntu LTSP will be adopted as standard by LTSP 4.201:59
NavireOk01:59
NavireHave bittorent Edubuntu?01:59
NavireISO.02:00
mhzhmm, i guess02:00
mhzactually, i am sure02:00
mhzbut never used it yet02:00
mhzdid you check the wiki02:00
mhz?02:00
NavireOk02:00
NavireThank you.02:00
NavireSorry, my english is very bad. :)02:00
mhznp02:00
mhzmine too :)02:00
mhzNavire: where are you from?02:01
NavireI from Brazil.02:01
mhzIMHO, brazil people always are very commited to Free software02:01
mhzso english is secundary02:01
NavireRealy.02:02
NavireI have to go.02:02
NavireSee you later:)02:02
NavireMhz, Where are you from?02:03
mhzChile02:04
NavireFine.02:04
NavireSee you later.02:04
mhzc ya and hope u are back02:05
NavireOk02:05
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paolobHi guys! I have a edubuntu server with 4GB ram. The bios sees all the ram, while in linux I have only 2.9 GB. What is this? Anyone could help me to understand why? thank you!03:12
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hyperactivecrondpaolob, what archiceture?03:13
paolobi38603:13
hyperactivecrondisn't there an issue with high amts of ram and x86?03:14
mhzhyperactivecrond: IIRC, i think i read something like that?03:15
hyperactivecrondiirc03:15
mhzif i remember correctly :)03:15
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Bob_MoonGreetings, I've installed edubuntu on an older system (P2, 600mhz, 256mb ram) for my daughter.  Everything installed properly but once edubuntu loads the display divides in to quarters and is fuzzy.  It's a pretty old monitor.  Anyone run into this before, any ideas?04:43
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zhxhello?06:01
mhzhi06:01
zhxthis isnt edubuntu specific,06:02
mhzshoot, just in case :)06:03
zhxbut the ubuntu channel is too packed to get any help06:03
zhxha06:03
zhxfirst off, nothing plays in totem06:03
zhxwhich is fine, becaues i prefer vlc anyway06:03
zhxso vlc plays everything...but no audio06:03
zhxwas curious if you had heard of this06:03
zhxalmost HAS to be a simple fix06:03
mhzare you in audio group?06:03
zhxaudio group?06:04
mhzyup06:04
zhxwah wah wah?06:04
mhzin a terminal type:  $ groups06:04
mhzthat command will show you all the groups you ruser belongs to06:04
zhxyeah06:04
zhxaudio works just fine in the OS06:04
zhxand xmms06:05
mhzaoh06:05
zhxoh quick question, how do i kill an unresponsive program?06:05
mhzthen, maybe VLC is using a diff audio server than XMMS ?06:05
mhzxkill06:05
mhzor06:06
mhzin a terminal,06:06
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mhzkillall the_program06:06
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zhxdo you use vlc?06:11
mhznpe06:12
MrMazdainstall completed without asking for a root password or where to install grub, so now I can't use windoze or edubuntu06:12
zhxso you use totem?06:13
mhzMrMazda: had you ever installed a linux distro before?06:13
MrMazdalotsa times06:13
MrMazdabut rarely debians06:13
mhzzhx: actually, i use none. I see no videos in my box06:13
MrMazdaonly Xandrox06:13
MrMazdaonly Xandros06:14
mhzMrMazda: good.06:14
mhzMrMazda: and what option you chose? server? pressed enter? 06:14
MrMazdaenter06:14
MrMazdamy 10 year old wanted linux, and SuSE didn't have enuf room06:15
mhzso you chose language, keyboard, let system recognize CD rom, etc06:15
MrMazdaall that seemed OK06:15
MrMazdaeventually after reboot it told me some packages failed to install06:16
MrMazdabut not which06:16
mhzwired06:16
mhzweired06:16
mhzand after 1st reboot, it continued with no probs?06:17
MrMazdauntil the packages failure message06:17
MrMazdasaid I could proceed, so I did06:17
mhzhmmmm06:17
mhzMrMazda: you caught me06:17
MrMazdathen said done, and left me at login prompt06:17
mhzohh06:18
mhzthat is good06:18
mhzwhat user you chose when installing?06:18
MrMazdanot without password06:18
MrMazdanone, I backed away because it demanded a password06:18
mhzbut it always asks for user and password (not root) while installing, alwys06:18
MrMazdait asked, but when I refused to give it a non-null password it let me cancel, and then it proceeded without a user06:19
mhzhmmm, then I can't help you06:21
mhzmy gues is that you should have given a password06:21
MrMazdawhat good is system with no root password?06:22
MrMazdanever asked me06:22
MrMazdaIf I boot Knoppix and delete /etc/passwd is it smart enough to ask for a new one on next boot?06:23
zhxroot is disabled in ubuntu06:23
zhxby default06:24
mhzindeed06:24
mhzbut if you inser a LiveCD and start a terminal and mount current 'non-working- system06:24
mhzand then, mount it and chroot to it, you can run passwd a riit06:25
MrMazdaany old live CD?06:25
mhzGentoo, Knoppix, DSL, will do06:26
MrMazdak06:26
=== mhz gotta sleep now, sorry
MrMazdaI'll try in the AM, gotta sleep too06:26
MrMazdathx :)06:26
mhz(2:30 AM here)06:26
zhxsee ya06:26
mhzsee ya06:26
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littlepaulogra, did you had time to read the minifaq?09:54
ograyou flipped ltsp-utils and ltspadmin :)09:56
ograltsp-utils is a package, not a command09:56
littlepaulups...09:57
ograthe rest looks fine :)09:58
ogra"Das ltsp-client Paket ist fr die chroot Umgebung auf dem Server von dem aus die Clients booten ntig." should rather say that ltsp-client is only for installation *inside* the created chroot environment and should not be touched manually at all, the ltsp-build-client script cares for it at chroot creation time10:01
littlepaul:)10:01
ograseems some people install it on the server ....10:02
littlepaulyesterday I looked over http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup again and I think there should be a kind of "intro" before this (even if everthing is a configured during installation)10:02
ograthat intro was EdubuntuInstallNotes, but i agree, if you didnt read that page before, you are missing something ... its suboptimal ...10:03
littlepaulI have the feeling that http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes is to "general"10:04
ograits all you need to know for a successful install ...10:05
littlepauli miss some words about the chroot environment; there is no definition about this and a teacher does know nothing about chroot10:06
ograhe shouldnt10:07
lucasvolittlepaul: ja ich spreche deutsch10:09
ogralittlepaul, juliux and lucasvo opened #edubuntu-de yesterday10:10
littlepaulogra, great10:10
littlepaullucasvo, I'm working on a kind of Edubuntfaq in german10:10
littlepaullucasvo, maby I can also help somehow10:11
littlepaulogra, so can I update http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntufaq now? :)10:12
ogralittlepaul, yup10:13
littlepaulthx 10:13
ograapart from the small things i had above its fine 10:13
littlepaulogra, I installed edubuntu a while ago but I did not had time to configure an play with the server...10:15
ograif its a test install anyway, test dapper ;)10:15
littlepaulok, I downloaded dapper allready yesterday10:16
ograyay, great10:16
littlepaulwhat about g2ding - no furhter development?10:17
ograhehe, you know g2ding ? 10:18
littlepaulsure10:18
ograi use it, but stopped development looong ago... i should probably package it :)10:18
ograthe package on my personal server is very bad ....10:18
littlepaulI tested this package :)10:19
ograit works, but the icon locations are wrong for example ... and the packaging work is one of my first attempts ...10:19
ograits quite old ... 10:19
ogramore than 2 years ...10:20
littlepauloh, then you evolved very fast :)10:20
ograheh, yes, i dont do anything else since 2 years ... :)10:21
ograexcept some gardening probably ...10:21
=== ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes
=== ..[topic/#edubuntu:ogra] : The discussion channel for Edubuntu - the education version of Ubuntu, download: http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu/5.10/ | Mailing List http://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/edubuntu-devel | Wiki: http://wiki.edubuntu.org | Website http://www.edubuntu.org | MEETING: there will be NO meeting on 28 Dec and 4 Jan. | Read before installing: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes | see also #edubuntu-es and #edubuntu-de
ogra:)10:22
littlepaulcool10:22
lucasvoogra: :D10:30
lucasvoogra: cool10:30
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ogralucasvo, 01:46
ogra* scp generates a new password (as long as possible with pwgen) on every start in /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/s-c-p/passwd01:46
ogra* the passwd file is root read only... (s-c-p runs with sudo anyway)01:46
ogra* on the thin client runs "x11vnc -display :6 -scale 2/3 -forever"(x11vnc, an initscript and the password dir get installed by s-c-p postinst in the chroot)01:46
ogra* the viewer runs with the password from /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/s-c-p/passwd01:46
ogra* determine speedups and compression policys that can be used ...01:46
lucasvohm, looks good01:46
lucasvoogra: since I updated to dapper there is white background in ldm, is this normal?01:47
ograthe prob is that we have to pick up the display on the client ... that slows vnc down a lot ...01:47
ograi'D rather have a greyscale vnc connection, but it seems that not implemented yet01:48
ograthats the themeable ldm ...01:48
ograit shouldnt be plain white though01:48
ograshould be somewhat ebony ... or antiquewhite01:49
spacey_kiogra, should i edit the ltsp-client-build script or is it possible to just upgrade the ltsp chroot to dapper?01:49
ografor what ? 01:49
spacey_kito get dapper client on breezy server01:50
ogra(if you have a chroot alread dont build it again, that mostly causes problems)01:50
ograit doesnt work 100% since the two kernels (server/client) are out of sync ...01:51
ograbut try the upgrading rather than rebuilding the chroot01:51
spacey_kiok01:51
spacey_kiyou mean the kernel thats passed to the client with tftp?01:51
spacey_kiis out of sync with the one on the chroot?01:52
ograand dont forget to run ltsp-update-kernels on the server afterwards01:52
ograyes01:52
ograbut ltsp-update-kernels should solve that 01:52
spacey_kiok01:52
spacey_kii'll give it a shot :o)01:52
ogramake a backup of the chroot ;)01:53
ograa tar.bz2 or something ;)01:53
spacey_kialready tarring it ;)01:53
spacey_ki307 upgraded, 52 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.02:02
spacey_kioe 50 more packages in the chroot02:02
spacey_kignome stuff02:02
ograyup02:03
ograthemeable ldm requires gnomecanvas ...02:03
ograthat pulls python-gnome in02:03
spacey_kii'll install the bootchart as well. 02:07
ogragood idea 02:07
ogranote you need a way to access the client ...02:07
spacey_kialready got that fixed up yesterday ;)02:08
ograah, yes, i remeber02:08
spacey_kii had hope you forgot:P02:08
ogralol02:10
spacey_kildm_0.62_all.deb02:13
spacey_ki has some errors02:13
spacey_kibtw02:13
ogra?02:15
spacey_kihad to use apt-get -f install02:16
ogracan you paste them please ? or file a bug ? i had none here02:16
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spacey_kiit was really informative,only that it generated some errors and apt stopped02:20
ograif you have to run -f install it will break a possible automation, i'd like to fix that02:21
spacey_ki2005-12-16 13:45:41 install ldm <none> 0.6202:21
spacey_ki2005-12-16 13:45:41 status half-installed ldm 0.6202:21
spacey_ki2005-12-16 13:45:41 status not-installed ldm <none>02:21
spacey_kithats dpkg.log02:21
ograno, i need the apt-error02:22
spacey_kiwell i guess i can reinstall it02:23
spacey_kiah wait i'll generate it again02:24
spacey_kiErrors were encountered while processing:02:49
spacey_ki /var/cache/apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb02:49
spacey_kiE: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)02:49
spacey_kiogra, what else do you need?02:50
ograthe real error is somewhere above02:51
ograsomewher near: setting up ldm02:51
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spacey_kiSelecting previously deselected package ldm.02:53
spacey_kiUnpacking ldm (from .../apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb) ...02:53
spacey_kidpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb (--unpack):02:53
spacey_ki trying to overwrite `/usr/sbin/ldm', which is also in package ltsp-client02:53
ograah, thanks 02:55
=== ogra fixes
ograthere is missing a "Replaces: ltsp-client" in the ldm package 02:56
spacey_ki:)02:56
spacey_kigreat02:56
spacey_kii'll reboot and check if it actually works :o)02:56
=== ogra hands spacey_ki a bugsquasher goldstar :-D
spacey_kiwoei :)02:57
spacey_kibrb02:57
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spaceyogra: it works03:09
ogragreat :)03:09
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spaceyfirst time an nfs timeout.. but the four reboots after that it works good03:09
ograhmm, i saw that too... 03:09
spaceyonly bootchart doesn't seem to work.03:09
ogradid you regenerate the initramfs in the chroot ? 03:10
spaceyprobably not03:10
ograbootchart must be in initramfs03:10
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ogrado a dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-8-386 in the chroot and then run ltsp-update-kernels again03:11
spaceyi just found update-initramfs 03:11
spaceybut dpkg-reconfigure is probably more nice03:12
ograyes, you can do that too, but it need some forse option iirc03:12
ogra*force03:12
spaceywant to other errors which show up during boot?03:15
ogranope303:15
ogra-303:15
ograthe startscript removal isnt i the new packages yet... 03:16
ograif it still occurs after these are in, i'd like to know about it03:16
ogracurrently the bootprocess doesnt differ much from breezy (wrt startscripts)03:16
spaceyok03:17
spaceyjust noticed some command not found thingy03:17
ograso errors because of readonly filesys etc are normal ...03:17
lucasvoogra: I thought there will be a bootsplash?03:21
=== mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #edubuntu
ograyes, if i dont need bugreports about booterrors anymore ;)03:21
littlepaulhi mhz 03:21
ograbootsplash is enabled, but no dependency of ltsp-client yet 03:21
mhzhi littlepaul 03:21
ograso if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ... 03:22
mhzogra: thanx for suggesting me to give bzr a try... i am in nirvana :D03:22
ograhehe03:22
mhzogra: and i am still kicking my chilean butt for the flood yesterday on the pm (i hope you were away)03:23
ograi was03:24
mhzi thought it was much little (so it looked in my editor)03:24
ogradont worry, i dont mind floods in pm03:24
mhzuuuf03:24
=== mhz feels relaxed
spaceyogra: /etc/rcS.d/Sltsp-client-setup: line 137: X_MODE: command not found03:25
ograyup03:25
spaceyk :)03:25
ograit doesnt work anyway 03:25
ograi'm not sure if i will wipe it...03:25
mhzogra: after jerome offering to make my ODP's into DocBook, I was very happy but I can't figure out where to start in kjcole's branch03:25
ograthats one of the debian fixes03:25
mhzogra: BTW, could you read that flood anyways? It was about Moin devel suggestions to use Moin in Edubuntu default setup03:36
jsgotangcoMoin Moin Moin =)03:37
mhzjsgotangco: but this wasn't me talking, this was regarding ogra's participating in Umeet talk and meeting Moin leader03:41
mhzthey have good points03:41
jsgotangcoi was just pulling your leg =)03:41
mhzi was just a meseenger ("il mensajero e non importante")03:41
mhz:)03:41
ogramhz, moin is fine, but as your devs say in the flood, there is no ootb setup03:45
ograand since we work with the default package, i see no possibility to make one happen 03:46
ogranote that you cant just introduce a default setup ...03:46
mhzogra: but what if i took care of a moin package that is not default. would that help?03:47
ogranope, we couldnt ship it03:47
mhzok03:47
ograwe dont duplicate packages ...03:48
mhznop, no duplicating, I mean make the package work so we can include it03:48
ograthe prob with a default setup is that all sites (maybe all ecxisting ones) rely on the fact that there is no default setup ... 03:49
ograseems paradox, but thats the prob03:49
mhzhehehe03:49
mhzok, so no way a classrom env. could benefir from Moin ready to be used03:49
mhz?03:49
ograif you break someones tewaked setup during an upgrade because you inroduce  default setup, you have lost03:49
ograsure03:50
mhzoh, good point03:50
ograbut that would have to be an upstream change tht would need to happen 03:50
ograsomething like mediawiki does wouldbe suitable03:50
mhzsee? now I get lost again03:51
mhz:)03:51
mhzthat is why I would have prefered you two chat about it instead of me03:51
mhz:D03:51
ogramediawiki installs a install.html form on the webserve in http/localhost/wiki/03:52
ograerr03:52
ograinstall.php03:52
jsgotangcoyeah IT ROCKS03:52
=== jsgotangco just did a massive mediawiki hack for work
ograsou you can set it up very easy with some mouseclicks and no config file tweaking at all03:53
mhzif we think Moin can be useful on a classroom env. ( i am convinced) I can commit to do my best to make it happen. I would need some little guidance and I'd follow orders03:53
mhz:)03:53
ograif there are already existing wiki setups, this page just isnt installed03:53
jsgotangcoogra, actually install.php is the only thing that you'll ever need for mediawiki03:53
ograyup 03:53
jsgotangco(unless you have to edit up php.ini for memalloc03:53
ograthats its big advantage03:53
jsgotangcoits just no brainer really03:54
jsgotangcoprobably the best installer03:54
ograand that it respects existing setups ...03:54
littlepaulmhz, I'm also convinced that mediawiki could be usefull for classrooms03:54
jsgotangconext would be gallery203:54
mhzwell, I know Henrik made a GUI installer for Moin Desktop Edition and it will be shipped in TheOpenCd03:54
jsgotangcomhz, we're working on that03:54
ograthe prob is that its php03:54
mhzjsgotangco: open cd, too?03:54
jsgotangcomhz, the problem though is disk trashing03:54
ograand that its security history is odd 03:54
jsgotangcoogra, mediawiki are the worst security backporters03:55
spaceyhttp://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/plaatjes/bootchart/dapper-20051216-1.png03:55
mhzogra: sure, hence I am for Moin :)03:55
ograand that we cant support it out of both reasons :/03:55
ograjsgotangco, tey dont do backporting of fixes at all03:55
ograthats why we cant suport it03:55
jsgotangcosuch an awesome product though03:55
ograspacey, WOW03:55
ogra26 sec ??03:55
jsgotangcowow03:56
ograwithout startscript tweaking ?03:56
jsgotangcomhz, we're doing the orchard in moin03:56
mhzogra: so, if Moin can have a 'user' interface to set it up, that would be a 'go' to ship Moin?03:56
mhzjsgotangco: orchard?03:56
ogramhz, a user interface for set "that respects *any* existing configuration"03:57
jsgotangcomhz, orchard.theopencd.org03:57
ogras/set/setup03:57
=== mhz opening tab
spaceyogra: actually it has extra stuff installed like openssh server03:57
ogracool03:57
jsgotangcomhz, the problem with moin in a user config is that it has a lot of *awful* and not so awful hacks03:57
spaceyogra: but it is an 1,8ghz thin client ofcourse :P03:57
ograyup... 03:58
ograi see, but still :)03:58
jsgotangcomhz, try setting up mediawiki in your $home and you'll see it doesn't affect the system at all03:58
spaceyogra: better then breezy client :P03:58
mhzjsgotangco: sure, but that's a start. Also, Moin server is meant for admins, not for endusers who have MMDE03:58
mhzjsgotangco: i did, some time ago.03:58
jsgotangcomhz, its a good sample though03:59
mhzjsgotangco: and you're right03:59
mhzyup03:59
jsgotangcoi'd love to see moin do that really03:59
mhzjsgotangco: iirc, Cups web GUI is made in python, or not?03:59
jsgotangcoi don't know i won't be surprised if it is though04:00
mhzjsgotangco: so if it is, maybe Moin has some hopes04:00
ogra<mhz> jsgotangco: sure, but that's a start. Also, Moin server is meant for admins, not for endusers who have MMDE04:01
jsgotangcomhz, its only software, we shall overcome (TM)04:01
mhzdropdwon menus and all04:01
ogramhz, thats the prob ...04:01
ogratachers are no admins04:01
jsgotangcoright04:01
ogra*teachers04:01
mhzogra: but school tool and moodel have same 'target': admins04:01
ogramoodle has a similar system mediawiki has for setup04:02
jsgotangcobut they can be easily configured 04:02
mhzhmm, bad example :)04:02
ograschooltool is set up by default04:02
=== Raptoid [n=Raptoid@unaffiliated/raptoid] has joined #edubuntu
=== jsgotangco remembers the first time he setup moin
=== Raptoid [n=Raptoid@unaffiliated/raptoid] has left #edubuntu []
jsgotangcoit took me half a day to figure it out04:03
=== mhz remembers the first time, too....wow, it was different!
jsgotangcoits much better lately though04:03
mhzindeed04:03
=== mhz slaps himself for not being a python mon
jsgotangcobut i'll wiat for the day i can just download a tarball open it up and open a browser to set it up04:03
mhzok... I'll think of a plan to have a Moin gui setup so we can ship moin for school env.04:04
ograjsgotangco, pfft04:04
jsgotangcoogra, i'm a lazy admin =)04:05
ograi wait for the day ican apt-get install it and start wikiing on localhost immediately04:05
mhzogra: so, why are we currently having python-moin ?04:05
jsgotangcoogra, that one too04:05
ogramhz, yup04:05
jsgotangcoogra, on a virtual host even04:05
ogramhz, even shipped on the DVD 04:05
=== spacey_ki [n=spacey@flits101-191.flits.rug.nl] has joined #edubuntu
mhzbu t why?04:05
mhzwhat for?04:05
ografor moin admins that want to use it04:06
ograand because we use it ourself as wikiengine04:06
mhzhahehehehe04:06
mhzi see04:06
jsgotangcoeat your own dogfood?04:06
ograut its nothing to ship for a schoolserver without mere linux knowlwdge04:06
ograthast why its not in the default install04:06
mhzogra, MMDE starts wiking on your localhost by runing ./moin04:07
mhzbut i see what you mean04:07
ograbut still runs in $HOME04:07
mhzi wont cry any more04:07
ograjust convince upstream to make it as easy as mediawiki to install ;)04:08
=== mhz will try to group python geeks in LA that are convinced moin rocks
=== mhz sighs
ograif we have an install.py page, i'll immediate include it .... with sugar on top04:08
ogra:)04:08
mhzjsgotangco: ogra: thanks for your patience and enlightenment about this mhz-moin issue :D04:08
ogramhz, its there for you on the DVD and in main ...04:09
ogra:)04:09
mhzyup04:09
jsgotangcoand MMDE04:09
mhzbut honestly04:09
mhzi always prefer the wget -c .tar.gz04:09
mhz :D04:09
jsgotangcomhz, don't get me wrong, i really like moin, but its just too unfriendly to setup 04:09
mhzsure04:10
mhzI agree04:10
mhzit's just that once it's setup... it rocks04:10
guimhi all04:10
mhzactually, jsgotangco I am being shut down my current tecnocimiento.cl hosting04:11
jsgotangcoeh/04:11
jsgotangco?04:11
mhzso, I just tar'ed my /data and .py files and in 2 minutes, i'll be ready to start in a diff server :)04:11
jsgotangcowhat happened?04:12
=== mhz is waiting to get answer from that other server admin, thoug
mhzjsgotangco: i broke relationships with the german guys owners of that hosting04:12
mhzso, before we start arguing indefintely, I offered my 'moving'04:13
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=== mhz BBL
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lucasvoogra: is usplash working on ltsp client/06:39
ogralucasvo, yes i explained it to you 2h ago06:40
ogra<ogra> bootsplash is enabled, but no dependency of ltsp-client yet 06:40
ogra<mhz> hi littlepaul 06:40
ogra<ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ... 06:40
lucasvoah06:40
lucasvo18:40 < ogra> <ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ...06:40
lucasvoI didn't see that06:41
lucasvoah crap06:41
lucasvonow this stupid nfs error comes again06:41
lucasvoogra: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ && apt-get install edubuntu-artwork-usplash usplash && initramfs && ctrl+d && ltsp-update-kernels ?06:43
ogranop06:43
lucasvo/boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-8-386 was been altered.  Cannot update.06:44
ograyou dont install initramfs06:44
lucasvoI don't install it :D06:44
lucasvoI just execute it06:44
ograthe updating of the initramfs is done through dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-8-38606:45
ograor through update-initramfs -d -t06:46
lucasvoNot touching initrd symlinks since we are being reinstalled (2.6.15-8.10)06:50
lucasvoNot updating image symbolic links since we are being updated (2.6.15-8.10)06:50
lucasvook?06:50
lucasvoSkipping openfirmware images.  Install the mkvmlinuz package if you need them.06:51
lucasvoSkipping netabootwrap images.  Install the aboot package if you need them.06:51
lucasvowow06:52
lucasvoit works06:52
lucasvocool06:52
lucasvothanks ogra 06:54
ogra:)06:54
ograbut if your boot isnt tweaked it might time out before you reach ldm ...06:54
lucasvoyes it does :(06:55
lucasvoogra: how can I tweak it?06:55
ograremove the unneeded startscripts (can explain which now, there is a spec for it ...)06:55
ograbbl06:55
=== MrMazda [n=fmcz@B2a-CommercialWay-Brooksville-28.ij.net] has joined #edubuntu
MrMazdawhat do people on edubuntu use instead of the missing mc?07:00
lucasvoMrMazda: nautilus?07:01
lucasvoMrMazda: cp, mv, ln ...07:01
MrMazdao_O07:01
MrMazdadoes nautilus work on VCs?07:02
MrMazdacp, mv, ln, etc seem a bit harsh for a kid07:03
MrMazdacan apt or dpkg find me mc somewhere on a fresh default install?07:05
lucasvowhy not using nautilus?07:07
MrMazdadoes nautilus work on VCs?07:08
lucasvoVC?07:08
lucasvonautilus is graphical07:08
MrMazdatty[1-6] 07:08
lucasvono it doens't07:08
lucasvowhy should a kid use tty[1-6] 07:08
lucasvo?07:08
MrMazdaI don't boot a fresh install into GUI until basic configuration is done with an OFM07:09
lucasvowhy?07:09
lucasvowhy should a kid make basic configuration?07:10
MrMazdaDOS heritage I guess07:10
MrMazdamake it ready for me to understand what kid is up against07:10
MrMazdashe's only 1007:10
lucasvoa kid is not supposed to use commandline :D07:10
MrMazdakid is no admin though07:10
MrMazdaIf I can't admin, she gets no edubuntu07:11
lucasvoexactly07:11
lucasvohow do you want to admin?07:11
lucasvowith mc?07:11
MrMazda107:11
MrMazdait's how I find out what's under the hood07:11
MrMazdaand fix whatever's broke07:12
lucasvolucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu/student-control-panel-0.1$ apt-cache search midnight07:12
lucasvogkrellmitime - Internet time plugin for gkrellm07:12
lucasvognome-vfs-extfs - The GNOME virtual file-system extra fs scripts for GMC.07:12
lucasvojuice - playlist editor / player frontend07:12
lucasvojunior-system - Debian Jr. System tools07:12
lucasvokrusader - Twin-panel (commander-style) File Manager for KDE07:12
lucasvolfm - simple but powerful file manager for the UNIX console07:12
lucasvomc - midnight commander - a powerful file manager07:12
lucasvosorry for flood07:12
MrMazdanp07:12
lucasvosee, there is mc07:12
MrMazdasingle prompt said not found07:13
MrMazdadoes your flood tell me it's available, or that it's already installed?07:13
lucasvoit tells you that it is available over the net07:15
MrMazdak07:15
lucasvoI have all feeds activated(universe and main)07:15
MrMazdathe installer didn't actually finish07:15
lucasvoit should be in main07:15
MrMazdatold me some programs were not installed (unknown reason)07:15
lucasvofor e.g. gcc :D07:15
lucasvoI was quite amazed 07:16
MrMazdak07:16
lucasvoI thought why does this stupid program not compile?07:16
lucasvoso I had to first install make and gcc 07:16
lucasvoogra: I found it, now it is damn fast ! :D07:17
MrMazdalucasvo: I'm up against a no space left on device error07:33
MrMazda / is full 07:33
lucasvowhat disksize do you have?07:33
MrMazda / is 1.95M07:33
MrMazda /home is 1.6G07:34
MrMazda / is 1.95G07:34
lucasvo                      7.2G  5.2G  1.7G  77% /07:34
lucasvoI have 5GB07:34
MrMazdaso the aborted install must have left trash somewhere07:34
lucasvoMrMazda: ask in #ubuntu I don't know how much space you need07:34
MrMazdadocs say 2G07:35
=== vincenzio [n=vmarks@adsl-065-015-231-005.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #edubuntu
lucasvoMrMazda: you could try to delte the apt cache07:38
MrMazdawhere is it?07:39
lucasvo/var/cache/apt/archives/07:39
MrMazdak07:39
lucasvodon't you think 1.6gb is a little too much for one person?07:40
lucasvoI would rather do: 0.8gb for /home and the rest for /07:40
MrMazda2 people, kid & her mom07:42
lucasvoah, ok07:43
MrMazdamebbe I'll start over with 1.3G /home07:46
lucasvoMrMazda: is it working? rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives/*07:55
MrMazdalucasvo: didn't go upstairs yet to try07:55
lucasvoMrMazda: ssh :D07:55
MrMazdanot yet configured here07:56
lucasvossh is working out of the box07:56
MrMazdaI said here07:56
lucasvoaha07:56
lucasvoyou need ssh client?07:56
MrMazdaThis box is OS/207:56
vincenzioos/2 is fantastic.07:59
vincenziohttp://linuxmafia.com/ssh/os2.html07:59
vincenziothe hobbes ftp has a client on it.08:00
MrMazdaI go upstairs to check the kid and to get exercise. Ssh is like paying someone to mow the lawn, then dying from lack of exercise.08:01
=== vincenzio dies from lack of exercise.
lucasvolol08:02
MrMazdassh client is already on my other keyboard, but also not configured (Mandriva 2006)08:03
=== lucasvo wonders how he should manage his server 1000km away from him
vincenziostart walking, lucasvo.08:03
vincenziostart walking.08:03
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MrMazdalucasvo: ~450M freed, dpkg(apt?) --configure -a running now08:37
MrMazdalotta screen activity08:37
MrMazdalotta gstreamer errors08:37
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MrMazdastill "Setting up ..."08:49
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MrMazdalucasvo: that recovery attempt failed. I repartitioned to give / 2.25G, but next install attempt also failed on no space left on device error10:47
MrMazdaguess I gotta go find some other distro that actually fits on the recommended minimum space10:48
lucasvoMrMazda: what are you installing?10:49
lucasvoMrMazda: ubuntu?10:49
MrMazdaedubuntu10:50
MrMazda5.110:50
lucasvoMrMazda: I suggest you to go to #ubuntu and ask why it takes up so much space10:50
lucasvoMrMazda: I don't really know about installation procedure10:50
lucasvoMrMazda: since ubuntu and edubuntu are 95% the same it shouldn't be any problem10:50
lucasvoMrMazda: I would do it like this:10:53
lucasvopartition full drive to / 10:53
lucasvoinstall it10:53
lucasvodelete /var/cache/apt/archives/* and look how much space is left10:54
MrMazdappl on #ubuntu say only 1.6G required10:54
MrMazdalucasvo: I'm a-865 on #ubuntu10:54
MrMazdalucasvo: maybe I should try it with the network cable disconnected?10:56
MrMazdahow can there be so much on one CD?10:56
lucasvoMrMazda: yes10:56
lucasvodon't install network in the beginning10:56
MrMazdaI'll go try that now10:57
lucasvoMrMazda: I already worked with suse, debian, gentoo, and I have never seen such a userfriendly demonstartion11:01
lucasvos/demonstration/distribution/g11:02
MrMazdanew install proceeding with network cable unplugged11:09
MrMazdafirst reboot into Knoppix instead to see only less than 900M used on /11:46
lucasvohm, you know what!11:51
lucasvothat reminds me I once had a similar problem!11:52
lucasvoas well with a installation of ubuntu11:52
lucasvoI reburnt the cd and retried and it worked11:52
lucasvoMrMazda: I would try that11:52
MrMazdaI used a 52X burner at 24X11:54
lucasvostrange11:54
lucasvoI had exactly the same problem11:55
MrMazdawe'll soon see if the missing network cable fixes it11:55
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