[12:07] <fitzwillie> Anyone have a moment?
[12:07] <mhz> yup, me fitzwillie 
[12:07] <fitzwillie> Ahh, thanks mhz... so, I'm trying to install Edu for the first time...
[12:08] <fitzwillie> And I am having trouble - so I need to ask some basic (perhapsdumb) questions)
[12:09] <fitzwillie> first, is it the entire .iso file (as a single file) that I should burn to a cd?  And that should be self-booting when I boot my target machine?
[12:09] <fitzwillie> (assuming I have fiddled my bios correctly, or used a boot manager)
[12:10] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: yes it is
[12:11] <mhz> fitzwillie: do you have ubuntu already installed ?
[12:12] <fitzwillie> No, it's an somewhat older x86 machine - I already formatted the hd to bee a bootable linux partition (using DSL booted from floppy & CDR)
[12:13] <fitzwillie> but I can't get the iso cdrom to boot, either naturally, or usign a boot manager from a floppy.
[12:13] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: you won't need that, just download edubuntucd and burn it
[12:13] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: is a winxp install disk booting ?
[12:13] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: or some other bootable disc?
[12:14] <lucasvo> for e.g. of other linux distribution or norton rescue disk or windows ...?
[12:14] <fitzwillie> I've been able to boot using DSL (damn small linux) and another CD I made bootable.
[12:14] <lucasvo> so it is the problem of the edubuntu iso
[12:14] <fitzwillie> I wonder how easy it is to damage the .iso when burning (I noted the warning about exceeding 8x speeds)
[12:14] <lucasvo> that could be a problem
[12:15] <lucasvo> did you check the md5sum?
[12:15] <fitzwillie> no I didn;t... not clear on that procedure.
[12:15] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: try to burn it again if you have enough cd-r :D
[12:16] <fitzwillie> heh, yeah, plenty of them ;)  Okay,I'll try that... perhaps at a nice slor 2x or 4x write speed.
[12:17] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: I had problems during download, I would also try to download it again
[12:17] <lucasvo> :D
[12:17] <lucasvo> if 2nd burned cd fails
[12:17] <fitzwillie> Will do.  I was just worried I was missing something from a technical perspective, but it sounds like I was doing things correctly.
[12:18] <fitzwillie> I'm a moderate newbie to linux, so this is an adventure.
[12:18] <lucasvo> edubuntu is quite amazing :D
[12:18] <lucasvo> it is extremly easy and good configured
[12:18] <fitzwillie> It sounds like it - I really want to get it working for my boys.
[12:19] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: ah, how old are they?
[12:19] <fitzwillie> 5 & 7
[12:19] <lucasvo> I am actually almost in the age I could still use it :D
[12:19] <lucasvo> that's good for them
[12:20] <fitzwillie> I need to give them something other than the XBox to play with ;)
[12:20] <lucasvo> xbox is quite powerful one could even run edubuntu on it :D
[12:20] <lucasvo> especially the new xbox360
[12:20] <fitzwillie> LOL, yeah, I've heard you could do that... I don't think I'm going to go quite that far, though ;)
[12:21] <fitzwillie> I did get Damn Small Linux running on an old laptop with 32mb ram, though
[12:21] <lucasvo> 500$ for a pc better than my normal workstation :D
[12:21] <fitzwillie> haven't had a chance to try it with a wireless card yet, though.
[12:21] <lucasvo> uh
[12:22] <lucasvo> you don't want to try it :D
[12:22] <lucasvo> it isn't that easy
[12:22] <lucasvo> chance that you have the correct card is less than 0.8 % 
[12:22] <lucasvo> maybe this is not correct, let's say > 5 %
[12:23] <fitzwillie> Well, it's less of a priority than the Edubuntu right now anyway... 
[12:24] <fitzwillie> Anyway, I appreciate your help... I'll give it a go again tonight.  Wish me luck!
[12:24] <lucasvo> tonight?, where are you from?
[12:24] <lucasvo> I will go to bed now :D
[12:25] <lucasvo> it's already 01:00 :D
[12:25] <fitzwillie> California - pacific time - only 3:25 in the afternoon.
[12:25] <fitzwillie> Thursday
[12:25] <lucasvo> ah
[12:25] <lucasvo> california 
[12:25] <lucasvo> my second home 
[12:26] <fitzwillie> Let's see, ten hours ahead puts you in Europe?
[12:26] <lucasvo> yes
[12:26] <lucasvo> Zurich, Switzerland
[12:27] <fitzwillie> Very nice!
[12:27] <lucasvo> where do you live?
[12:27] <lucasvo> Silicon Valey?
[12:28] <fitzwillie> Yeah, near San Jose.
[12:28] <juliux> lucasvo, we should found a german edubuntu channel ;)
[12:29] <lucasvo> maybe I will move to san francisco next summer and live there for a year at my aunts house
[12:29] <lucasvo> juliux: why not
[12:29] <lucasvo> juliux: join #edubuntu-de
[12:30] <juliux> lucasvo, because we have many people on fairs who are interesset in edubuntu
[12:30] <fitzwillie> lucasvo: it's a lovely place to live - very urban.  Probably almost as chilly as Zurich when the fog comes in, too ;)
[12:32] <lucasvo> fitzwillie: I was there in autumn
[12:32] <lucasvo> it is indeed very similar
[12:32] <lucasvo> juliux: I don't understand you, fair?
[12:32] <juliux> lucasvo, what you dont understand?
[12:33] <fitzwillie> Anyway, I'm off - many thanks.  I'll report back if I'm lucky.
[12:33] <lucasvo> juliux: have many people on fairs who are interesset in edubuntu
[12:33] <juliux> lucasvo, ah
[12:33] <juliux> lucasvo, we have in germany many people who want to know more about edubuntu
[12:34] <lucasvo> aha
[12:34] <juliux> lucasvo, i present *ubuntu on fairs in germany
[12:34] <lucasvo> fairs?
[12:34] <juliux> messen
[12:34] <lucasvo> aha
[12:34] <lucasvo> is ubuntu at 22c3?
[12:34] <juliux> i dont think so
[12:34] <lucasvo> must be an interesting job to do ?
[12:34] <juliux> yes it is very interesting
[12:35] <juliux> i have done this for the last 2 years for gnome in germany
[12:35] <lucasvo> I wanted to make a speech there about ronja but somehow missed the date
[12:36] <lucasvo> anyway I go now... good night
[12:37] <juliux> gn8
[12:51] <agente87> hi
[12:53] <mhz> jsgotangco: hi
[12:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: bzr is happily living in my box
[12:54] <jsgotangco> mhz, good day m8
[12:54] <jsgotangco> awesome
[12:54] <jsgotangco> 7 commands will get you to nirvana
[12:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: sorry to be that lazy, but no which dir/branch should i get?
[12:55] <mhz> no problem, the tutorial is very VERY KISS
[12:55] <mhz> i liked it a lot
[01:00] <agente87> has anybody installed Jahshaka?
[01:01] <agente87> there is no debian package
[01:01] <agente87> ??
[01:01] <mhz> agente87: never heard of that
[01:02] <agente87> it a video editing software
[01:12] <mhz> Burgwork: can we use bzr to fetch edubuntu ISO files? (kind of rsync like, to download only changes)
[01:13] <Burgwork> mhz, hmm, unless the iso is in a bzr repo
[01:15] <mhz> Burgwork: so it will work perfectly? replacing rsync fetching ISO changes?
[01:21] <Burgwork> mhz, I doubt it. Rsync and bzr are really different tools
[01:23] <mhz> indeed, but i heard there were some 'bzr-rsync' plugins
[01:23] <mhz> but i may be very wrong
[01:38] <Navire> Edububtu, run fine on enviroment corporation?
[01:49] <Navire> Have life here?
[01:49] <mhz> Navire: hi
[01:50] <mhz> Edubuntu can be used on diff environments.
[01:50] <Navire> Thank
[01:50] <mhz> Navire: what's on your mind?
[01:51] <Navire> My olds client Petium 100 32RAM and floppy, no boot PXE.
[01:52] <Navire> MHZ - Is good man!! :) 
[01:53] <mhz> hehehe
[01:53] <mhz> Navire: each client should have 48 MB ram
[01:54] <mhz> and booting can be 'forced' via floppy
[01:54] <Navire> Ok
[01:54] <Navire> No problem with Olds  Petium 100Mhz?
[01:55] <Navire> Run slow?
[01:55] <mhz> not sure but shouldnt be
[01:55] <mhz> all the load is on the server side and the network
[01:56] <Navire> I am using LTSP in my home. Working cool.
[01:56] <Navire> But Ubuntu + LTSP the official site, no package Ubuntu.
[01:57] <Navire> I will try Edubuntu.
[01:57] <Navire> I like will test Edu.
[01:58] <mhz> hehe, well Edubuntu has meant very good things
[01:58] <Navire> I will donwloading ISO now, and install there.
[01:58] <mhz> Navire: edubuntu = ubuntu + LTSP + education apps.
[01:59] <Navire> I know.
[01:59] <mhz> and the edubuntu LTSP will be adopted as standard by LTSP 4.2
[01:59] <Navire> Ok
[01:59] <Navire> Have bittorent Edubuntu?
[02:00] <Navire> ISO.
[02:00] <mhz> hmm, i guess
[02:00] <mhz> actually, i am sure
[02:00] <mhz> but never used it yet
[02:00] <mhz> did you check the wiki
[02:00] <mhz> ?
[02:00] <Navire> Ok
[02:00] <Navire> Thank you.
[02:00] <Navire> Sorry, my english is very bad. :)
[02:00] <mhz> np
[02:00] <mhz> mine too :)
[02:01] <mhz> Navire: where are you from?
[02:01] <Navire> I from Brazil.
[02:01] <mhz> IMHO, brazil people always are very commited to Free software
[02:01] <mhz> so english is secundary
[02:02] <Navire> Realy.
[02:02] <Navire> I have to go.
[02:02] <Navire> See you later:)
[02:03] <Navire> Mhz, Where are you from?
[02:04] <mhz> Chile
[02:04] <Navire> Fine.
[02:04] <Navire> See you later.
[02:05] <mhz> c ya and hope u are back
[02:05] <Navire> Ok
[03:12] <paolob> Hi guys! I have a edubuntu server with 4GB ram. The bios sees all the ram, while in linux I have only 2.9 GB. What is this? Anyone could help me to understand why? thank you!
[03:13] <hyperactivecrond> paolob, what archiceture?
[03:13] <paolob> i386
[03:14] <hyperactivecrond> isn't there an issue with high amts of ram and x86?
[03:15] <mhz> hyperactivecrond: IIRC, i think i read something like that?
[03:15] <hyperactivecrond> iirc
[03:15] <mhz> if i remember correctly :)
[04:43] <Bob_Moon> Greetings, I've installed edubuntu on an older system (P2, 600mhz, 256mb ram) for my daughter.  Everything installed properly but once edubuntu loads the display divides in to quarters and is fuzzy.  It's a pretty old monitor.  Anyone run into this before, any ideas?
[06:01] <zhx> hello?
[06:01] <mhz> hi
[06:02] <zhx> this isnt edubuntu specific,
[06:03] <mhz> shoot, just in case :)
[06:03] <zhx> but the ubuntu channel is too packed to get any help
[06:03] <zhx> ha
[06:03] <zhx> first off, nothing plays in totem
[06:03] <zhx> which is fine, becaues i prefer vlc anyway
[06:03] <zhx> so vlc plays everything...but no audio
[06:03] <zhx> was curious if you had heard of this
[06:03] <zhx> almost HAS to be a simple fix
[06:03] <mhz> are you in audio group?
[06:04] <zhx> audio group?
[06:04] <mhz> yup
[06:04] <zhx> wah wah wah?
[06:04] <mhz> in a terminal type:  $ groups
[06:04] <mhz> that command will show you all the groups you ruser belongs to
[06:04] <zhx> yeah
[06:04] <zhx> audio works just fine in the OS
[06:05] <zhx> and xmms
[06:05] <mhz> aoh
[06:05] <zhx> oh quick question, how do i kill an unresponsive program?
[06:05] <mhz> then, maybe VLC is using a diff audio server than XMMS ?
[06:05] <mhz> xkill
[06:06] <mhz> or
[06:06] <mhz> in a terminal,
[06:06] <mhz> killall the_program
[06:11] <zhx> do you use vlc?
[06:12] <mhz> npe
[06:12] <MrMazda> install completed without asking for a root password or where to install grub, so now I can't use windoze or edubuntu
[06:13] <zhx> so you use totem?
[06:13] <mhz> MrMazda: had you ever installed a linux distro before?
[06:13] <MrMazda> lotsa times
[06:13] <MrMazda> but rarely debians
[06:13] <mhz> zhx: actually, i use none. I see no videos in my box
[06:13] <MrMazda> only Xandrox
[06:14] <MrMazda> only Xandros
[06:14] <mhz> MrMazda: good.
[06:14] <mhz> MrMazda: and what option you chose? server? pressed enter? 
[06:14] <MrMazda> enter
[06:15] <MrMazda> my 10 year old wanted linux, and SuSE didn't have enuf room
[06:15] <mhz> so you chose language, keyboard, let system recognize CD rom, etc
[06:15] <MrMazda> all that seemed OK
[06:16] <MrMazda> eventually after reboot it told me some packages failed to install
[06:16] <MrMazda> but not which
[06:16] <mhz> wired
[06:16] <mhz> weired
[06:17] <mhz> and after 1st reboot, it continued with no probs?
[06:17] <MrMazda> until the packages failure message
[06:17] <MrMazda> said I could proceed, so I did
[06:17] <mhz> hmmmm
[06:17] <mhz> MrMazda: you caught me
[06:17] <MrMazda> then said done, and left me at login prompt
[06:18] <mhz> ohh
[06:18] <mhz> that is good
[06:18] <mhz> what user you chose when installing?
[06:18] <MrMazda> not without password
[06:18] <MrMazda> none, I backed away because it demanded a password
[06:18] <mhz> but it always asks for user and password (not root) while installing, alwys
[06:19] <MrMazda> it asked, but when I refused to give it a non-null password it let me cancel, and then it proceeded without a user
[06:21] <mhz> hmmm, then I can't help you
[06:21] <mhz> my gues is that you should have given a password
[06:22] <MrMazda> what good is system with no root password?
[06:22] <MrMazda> never asked me
[06:23] <MrMazda> If I boot Knoppix and delete /etc/passwd is it smart enough to ask for a new one on next boot?
[06:23] <zhx> root is disabled in ubuntu
[06:24] <zhx> by default
[06:24] <mhz> indeed
[06:24] <mhz> but if you inser a LiveCD and start a terminal and mount current 'non-working- system
[06:25] <mhz> and then, mount it and chroot to it, you can run passwd a riit
[06:25] <MrMazda> any old live CD?
[06:26] <mhz> Gentoo, Knoppix, DSL, will do
[06:26] <MrMazda> k
[06:26] <MrMazda> I'll try in the AM, gotta sleep too
[06:26] <MrMazda> thx :)
[06:26] <mhz> (2:30 AM here)
[06:26] <zhx> see ya
[06:26] <mhz> see ya
[09:54] <littlepaul> ogra, did you had time to read the minifaq?
[09:56] <ogra> you flipped ltsp-utils and ltspadmin :)
[09:56] <ogra> ltsp-utils is a package, not a command
[09:57] <littlepaul> ups...
[09:58] <ogra> the rest looks fine :)
[10:01] <ogra> "Das ltsp-client Paket ist fr die chroot Umgebung auf dem Server von dem aus die Clients booten ntig." should rather say that ltsp-client is only for installation *inside* the created chroot environment and should not be touched manually at all, the ltsp-build-client script cares for it at chroot creation time
[10:01] <littlepaul> :)
[10:02] <ogra> seems some people install it on the server ....
[10:02] <littlepaul> yesterday I looked over http://wiki.edubuntu.org/LTSPServerSetup again and I think there should be a kind of "intro" before this (even if everthing is a configured during installation)
[10:03] <ogra> that intro was EdubuntuInstallNotes, but i agree, if you didnt read that page before, you are missing something ... its suboptimal ...
[10:04] <littlepaul> I have the feeling that http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes is to "general"
[10:05] <ogra> its all you need to know for a successful install ...
[10:06] <littlepaul> i miss some words about the chroot environment; there is no definition about this and a teacher does know nothing about chroot
[10:07] <ogra> he shouldnt
[10:09] <lucasvo> littlepaul: ja ich spreche deutsch
[10:10] <ogra> littlepaul, juliux and lucasvo opened #edubuntu-de yesterday
[10:10] <littlepaul> ogra, great
[10:10] <littlepaul> lucasvo, I'm working on a kind of Edubuntfaq in german
[10:11] <littlepaul> lucasvo, maby I can also help somehow
[10:12] <littlepaul> ogra, so can I update http://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/Edubuntufaq now? :)
[10:13] <ogra> littlepaul, yup
[10:13] <littlepaul> thx 
[10:13] <ogra> apart from the small things i had above its fine 
[10:15] <littlepaul> ogra, I installed edubuntu a while ago but I did not had time to configure an play with the server...
[10:15] <ogra> if its a test install anyway, test dapper ;)
[10:16] <littlepaul> ok, I downloaded dapper allready yesterday
[10:16] <ogra> yay, great
[10:17] <littlepaul> what about g2ding - no furhter development?
[10:18] <ogra> hehe, you know g2ding ? 
[10:18] <littlepaul> sure
[10:18] <ogra> i use it, but stopped development looong ago... i should probably package it :)
[10:18] <ogra> the package on my personal server is very bad ....
[10:19] <littlepaul> I tested this package :)
[10:19] <ogra> it works, but the icon locations are wrong for example ... and the packaging work is one of my first attempts ...
[10:19] <ogra> its quite old ... 
[10:20] <ogra> more than 2 years ...
[10:20] <littlepaul> oh, then you evolved very fast :)
[10:21] <ogra> heh, yes, i dont do anything else since 2 years ... :)
[10:21] <ogra> except some gardening probably ...
[10:22] <ogra> :)
[10:22] <littlepaul> cool
[10:30] <lucasvo> ogra: :D
[10:30] <lucasvo> ogra: cool
[01:46] <ogra> lucasvo, 
[01:46] <ogra> * scp generates a new password (as long as possible with pwgen) on every start in /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/s-c-p/passwd
[01:46] <ogra> * the passwd file is root read only... (s-c-p runs with sudo anyway)
[01:46] <ogra> * on the thin client runs "x11vnc -display :6 -scale 2/3 -forever"(x11vnc, an initscript and the password dir get installed by s-c-p postinst in the chroot)
[01:46] <ogra> * the viewer runs with the password from /opt/ltsp/<arch>/etc/s-c-p/passwd
[01:46] <ogra> * determine speedups and compression policys that can be used ...
[01:46] <lucasvo> hm, looks good
[01:47] <lucasvo> ogra: since I updated to dapper there is white background in ldm, is this normal?
[01:47] <ogra> the prob is that we have to pick up the display on the client ... that slows vnc down a lot ...
[01:48] <ogra> i'D rather have a greyscale vnc connection, but it seems that not implemented yet
[01:48] <ogra> thats the themeable ldm ...
[01:48] <ogra> it shouldnt be plain white though
[01:49] <ogra> should be somewhat ebony ... or antiquewhite
[01:49] <spacey_ki> ogra, should i edit the ltsp-client-build script or is it possible to just upgrade the ltsp chroot to dapper?
[01:49] <ogra> for what ? 
[01:50] <spacey_ki> to get dapper client on breezy server
[01:50] <ogra> (if you have a chroot alread dont build it again, that mostly causes problems)
[01:51] <ogra> it doesnt work 100% since the two kernels (server/client) are out of sync ...
[01:51] <ogra> but try the upgrading rather than rebuilding the chroot
[01:51] <spacey_ki> ok
[01:51] <spacey_ki> you mean the kernel thats passed to the client with tftp?
[01:52] <spacey_ki> is out of sync with the one on the chroot?
[01:52] <ogra> and dont forget to run ltsp-update-kernels on the server afterwards
[01:52] <ogra> yes
[01:52] <ogra> but ltsp-update-kernels should solve that 
[01:52] <spacey_ki> ok
[01:52] <spacey_ki> i'll give it a shot :o)
[01:53] <ogra> make a backup of the chroot ;)
[01:53] <ogra> a tar.bz2 or something ;)
[01:53] <spacey_ki> already tarring it ;)
[02:02] <spacey_ki> 307 upgraded, 52 newly installed, 2 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
[02:02] <spacey_ki> oe 50 more packages in the chroot
[02:02] <spacey_ki> gnome stuff
[02:03] <ogra> yup
[02:03] <ogra> themeable ldm requires gnomecanvas ...
[02:03] <ogra> that pulls python-gnome in
[02:07] <spacey_ki> i'll install the bootchart as well. 
[02:07] <ogra> good idea 
[02:07] <ogra> note you need a way to access the client ...
[02:08] <spacey_ki> already got that fixed up yesterday ;)
[02:08] <ogra> ah, yes, i remeber
[02:08] <spacey_ki> i had hope you forgot:P
[02:10] <ogra> lol
[02:13] <spacey_ki> ldm_0.62_all.deb
[02:13] <spacey_ki>  has some errors
[02:13] <spacey_ki> btw
[02:15] <ogra> ?
[02:16] <spacey_ki> had to use apt-get -f install
[02:16] <ogra> can you paste them please ? or file a bug ? i had none here
[02:20] <spacey_ki> it was really informative,only that it generated some errors and apt stopped
[02:21] <ogra> if you have to run -f install it will break a possible automation, i'd like to fix that
[02:21] <spacey_ki> 2005-12-16 13:45:41 install ldm <none> 0.62
[02:21] <spacey_ki> 2005-12-16 13:45:41 status half-installed ldm 0.62
[02:21] <spacey_ki> 2005-12-16 13:45:41 status not-installed ldm <none>
[02:21] <spacey_ki> thats dpkg.log
[02:22] <ogra> no, i need the apt-error
[02:23] <spacey_ki> well i guess i can reinstall it
[02:24] <spacey_ki> ah wait i'll generate it again
[02:49] <spacey_ki> Errors were encountered while processing:
[02:49] <spacey_ki>  /var/cache/apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb
[02:49] <spacey_ki> E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)
[02:50] <spacey_ki> ogra, what else do you need?
[02:51] <ogra> the real error is somewhere above
[02:51] <ogra> somewher near: setting up ldm
[02:53] <spacey_ki> Selecting previously deselected package ldm.
[02:53] <spacey_ki> Unpacking ldm (from .../apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb) ...
[02:53] <spacey_ki> dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/ldm_0.62_all.deb (--unpack):
[02:53] <spacey_ki>  trying to overwrite `/usr/sbin/ldm', which is also in package ltsp-client
[02:55] <ogra> ah, thanks 
[02:56] <ogra> there is missing a "Replaces: ltsp-client" in the ldm package 
[02:56] <spacey_ki> :)
[02:56] <spacey_ki> great
[02:56] <spacey_ki> i'll reboot and check if it actually works :o)
[02:57] <spacey_ki> woei :)
[02:57] <spacey_ki> brb
[03:09] <spacey> ogra: it works
[03:09] <ogra> great :)
[03:09] <spacey> first time an nfs timeout.. but the four reboots after that it works good
[03:09] <ogra> hmm, i saw that too... 
[03:09] <spacey> only bootchart doesn't seem to work.
[03:10] <ogra> did you regenerate the initramfs in the chroot ? 
[03:10] <spacey> probably not
[03:10] <ogra> bootchart must be in initramfs
[03:11] <ogra> do a dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-8-386 in the chroot and then run ltsp-update-kernels again
[03:11] <spacey> i just found update-initramfs 
[03:12] <spacey> but dpkg-reconfigure is probably more nice
[03:12] <ogra> yes, you can do that too, but it need some forse option iirc
[03:12] <ogra> *force
[03:15] <spacey> want to other errors which show up during boot?
[03:15] <ogra> nope3
[03:15] <ogra> -3
[03:16] <ogra> the startscript removal isnt i the new packages yet... 
[03:16] <ogra> if it still occurs after these are in, i'd like to know about it
[03:16] <ogra> currently the bootprocess doesnt differ much from breezy (wrt startscripts)
[03:17] <spacey> ok
[03:17] <spacey> just noticed some command not found thingy
[03:17] <ogra> so errors because of readonly filesys etc are normal ...
[03:21] <lucasvo> ogra: I thought there will be a bootsplash?
[03:21] <ogra> yes, if i dont need bugreports about booterrors anymore ;)
[03:21] <littlepaul> hi mhz 
[03:21] <ogra> bootsplash is enabled, but no dependency of ltsp-client yet 
[03:21] <mhz> hi littlepaul 
[03:22] <ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ... 
[03:22] <mhz> ogra: thanx for suggesting me to give bzr a try... i am in nirvana :D
[03:22] <ogra> hehe
[03:23] <mhz> ogra: and i am still kicking my chilean butt for the flood yesterday on the pm (i hope you were away)
[03:24] <ogra> i was
[03:24] <mhz> i thought it was much little (so it looked in my editor)
[03:24] <ogra> dont worry, i dont mind floods in pm
[03:24] <mhz> uuuf
[03:25] <spacey> ogra: /etc/rcS.d/Sltsp-client-setup: line 137: X_MODE: command not found
[03:25] <ogra> yup
[03:25] <spacey> k :)
[03:25] <ogra> it doesnt work anyway 
[03:25] <ogra> i'm not sure if i will wipe it...
[03:25] <mhz> ogra: after jerome offering to make my ODP's into DocBook, I was very happy but I can't figure out where to start in kjcole's branch
[03:25] <ogra> thats one of the debian fixes
[03:36] <mhz> ogra: BTW, could you read that flood anyways? It was about Moin devel suggestions to use Moin in Edubuntu default setup
[03:37] <jsgotangco> Moin Moin Moin =)
[03:41] <mhz> jsgotangco: but this wasn't me talking, this was regarding ogra's participating in Umeet talk and meeting Moin leader
[03:41] <mhz> they have good points
[03:41] <jsgotangco> i was just pulling your leg =)
[03:41] <mhz> i was just a meseenger ("il mensajero e non importante")
[03:41] <mhz> :)
[03:45] <ogra> mhz, moin is fine, but as your devs say in the flood, there is no ootb setup
[03:46] <ogra> and since we work with the default package, i see no possibility to make one happen 
[03:46] <ogra> note that you cant just introduce a default setup ...
[03:47] <mhz> ogra: but what if i took care of a moin package that is not default. would that help?
[03:47] <ogra> nope, we couldnt ship it
[03:47] <mhz> ok
[03:48] <ogra> we dont duplicate packages ...
[03:48] <mhz> nop, no duplicating, I mean make the package work so we can include it
[03:49] <ogra> the prob with a default setup is that all sites (maybe all ecxisting ones) rely on the fact that there is no default setup ... 
[03:49] <ogra> seems paradox, but thats the prob
[03:49] <mhz> hehehe
[03:49] <mhz> ok, so no way a classrom env. could benefir from Moin ready to be used
[03:49] <mhz> ?
[03:49] <ogra> if you break someones tewaked setup during an upgrade because you inroduce  default setup, you have lost
[03:50] <ogra> sure
[03:50] <mhz> oh, good point
[03:50] <ogra> but that would have to be an upstream change tht would need to happen 
[03:50] <ogra> something like mediawiki does wouldbe suitable
[03:51] <mhz> see? now I get lost again
[03:51] <mhz> :)
[03:51] <mhz> that is why I would have prefered you two chat about it instead of me
[03:51] <mhz> :D
[03:52] <ogra> mediawiki installs a install.html form on the webserve in http/localhost/wiki/
[03:52] <ogra> err
[03:52] <ogra> install.php
[03:52] <jsgotangco> yeah IT ROCKS
[03:53] <ogra> sou you can set it up very easy with some mouseclicks and no config file tweaking at all
[03:53] <mhz> if we think Moin can be useful on a classroom env. ( i am convinced) I can commit to do my best to make it happen. I would need some little guidance and I'd follow orders
[03:53] <mhz> :)
[03:53] <ogra> if there are already existing wiki setups, this page just isnt installed
[03:53] <jsgotangco> ogra, actually install.php is the only thing that you'll ever need for mediawiki
[03:53] <ogra> yup 
[03:53] <jsgotangco> (unless you have to edit up php.ini for memalloc
[03:53] <ogra> thats its big advantage
[03:54] <jsgotangco> its just no brainer really
[03:54] <jsgotangco> probably the best installer
[03:54] <ogra> and that it respects existing setups ...
[03:54] <littlepaul> mhz, I'm also convinced that mediawiki could be usefull for classrooms
[03:54] <jsgotangco> next would be gallery2
[03:54] <mhz> well, I know Henrik made a GUI installer for Moin Desktop Edition and it will be shipped in TheOpenCd
[03:54] <jsgotangco> mhz, we're working on that
[03:54] <ogra> the prob is that its php
[03:54] <mhz> jsgotangco: open cd, too?
[03:54] <jsgotangco> mhz, the problem though is disk trashing
[03:54] <ogra> and that its security history is odd 
[03:55] <jsgotangco> ogra, mediawiki are the worst security backporters
[03:55] <spacey> http://users.lichtsnel.nl/~spacey/plaatjes/bootchart/dapper-20051216-1.png
[03:55] <mhz> ogra: sure, hence I am for Moin :)
[03:55] <ogra> and that we cant support it out of both reasons :/
[03:55] <ogra> jsgotangco, tey dont do backporting of fixes at all
[03:55] <ogra> thats why we cant suport it
[03:55] <jsgotangco> such an awesome product though
[03:55] <ogra> spacey, WOW
[03:55] <ogra> 26 sec ??
[03:56] <jsgotangco> wow
[03:56] <ogra> without startscript tweaking ?
[03:56] <jsgotangco> mhz, we're doing the orchard in moin
[03:56] <mhz> ogra: so, if Moin can have a 'user' interface to set it up, that would be a 'go' to ship Moin?
[03:56] <mhz> jsgotangco: orchard?
[03:57] <ogra> mhz, a user interface for set "that respects *any* existing configuration"
[03:57] <jsgotangco> mhz, orchard.theopencd.org
[03:57] <ogra> s/set/setup
[03:57] <spacey> ogra: actually it has extra stuff installed like openssh server
[03:57] <ogra> cool
[03:57] <jsgotangco> mhz, the problem with moin in a user config is that it has a lot of *awful* and not so awful hacks
[03:57] <spacey> ogra: but it is an 1,8ghz thin client ofcourse :P
[03:58] <ogra> yup... 
[03:58] <ogra> i see, but still :)
[03:58] <jsgotangco> mhz, try setting up mediawiki in your $home and you'll see it doesn't affect the system at all
[03:58] <spacey> ogra: better then breezy client :P
[03:58] <mhz> jsgotangco: sure, but that's a start. Also, Moin server is meant for admins, not for endusers who have MMDE
[03:58] <mhz> jsgotangco: i did, some time ago.
[03:59] <jsgotangco> mhz, its a good sample though
[03:59] <mhz> jsgotangco: and you're right
[03:59] <mhz> yup
[03:59] <jsgotangco> i'd love to see moin do that really
[03:59] <mhz> jsgotangco: iirc, Cups web GUI is made in python, or not?
[04:00] <jsgotangco> i don't know i won't be surprised if it is though
[04:00] <mhz> jsgotangco: so if it is, maybe Moin has some hopes
 jsgotangco: sure, but that's a start. Also, Moin server is meant for admins, not for endusers who have MMDE
[04:01] <jsgotangco> mhz, its only software, we shall overcome (TM)
[04:01] <mhz> dropdwon menus and all
[04:01] <ogra> mhz, thats the prob ...
[04:01] <ogra> tachers are no admins
[04:01] <jsgotangco> right
[04:01] <ogra> *teachers
[04:01] <mhz> ogra: but school tool and moodel have same 'target': admins
[04:02] <ogra> moodle has a similar system mediawiki has for setup
[04:02] <jsgotangco> but they can be easily configured 
[04:02] <mhz> hmm, bad example :)
[04:02] <ogra> schooltool is set up by default
[04:03] <jsgotangco> it took me half a day to figure it out
[04:03] <jsgotangco> its much better lately though
[04:03] <mhz> indeed
[04:03] <jsgotangco> but i'll wiat for the day i can just download a tarball open it up and open a browser to set it up
[04:04] <mhz> ok... I'll think of a plan to have a Moin gui setup so we can ship moin for school env.
[04:04] <ogra> jsgotangco, pfft
[04:05] <jsgotangco> ogra, i'm a lazy admin =)
[04:05] <ogra> i wait for the day ican apt-get install it and start wikiing on localhost immediately
[04:05] <mhz> ogra: so, why are we currently having python-moin ?
[04:05] <jsgotangco> ogra, that one too
[04:05] <ogra> mhz, yup
[04:05] <jsgotangco> ogra, on a virtual host even
[04:05] <ogra> mhz, even shipped on the DVD 
[04:05] <mhz> bu t why?
[04:05] <mhz> what for?
[04:06] <ogra> for moin admins that want to use it
[04:06] <ogra> and because we use it ourself as wikiengine
[04:06] <mhz> hahehehehe
[04:06] <mhz> i see
[04:06] <jsgotangco> eat your own dogfood?
[04:06] <ogra> ut its nothing to ship for a schoolserver without mere linux knowlwdge
[04:06] <ogra> thast why its not in the default install
[04:07] <mhz> ogra, MMDE starts wiking on your localhost by runing ./moin
[04:07] <mhz> but i see what you mean
[04:07] <ogra> but still runs in $HOME
[04:07] <mhz> i wont cry any more
[04:08] <ogra> just convince upstream to make it as easy as mediawiki to install ;)
[04:08] <ogra> if we have an install.py page, i'll immediate include it .... with sugar on top
[04:08] <ogra> :)
[04:08] <mhz> jsgotangco: ogra: thanks for your patience and enlightenment about this mhz-moin issue :D
[04:09] <ogra> mhz, its there for you on the DVD and in main ...
[04:09] <ogra> :)
[04:09] <mhz> yup
[04:09] <jsgotangco> and MMDE
[04:09] <mhz> but honestly
[04:09] <mhz> i always prefer the wget -c .tar.gz
[04:09] <mhz>  :D
[04:09] <jsgotangco> mhz, don't get me wrong, i really like moin, but its just too unfriendly to setup 
[04:10] <mhz> sure
[04:10] <mhz> I agree
[04:10] <mhz> it's just that once it's setup... it rocks
[04:10] <guim> hi all
[04:11] <mhz> actually, jsgotangco I am being shut down my current tecnocimiento.cl hosting
[04:11] <jsgotangco> eh/
[04:11] <jsgotangco> ?
[04:11] <mhz> so, I just tar'ed my /data and .py files and in 2 minutes, i'll be ready to start in a diff server :)
[04:12] <jsgotangco> what happened?
[04:12] <mhz> jsgotangco: i broke relationships with the german guys owners of that hosting
[04:13] <mhz> so, before we start arguing indefintely, I offered my 'moving'
[06:39] <lucasvo> ogra: is usplash working on ltsp client/
[06:40] <ogra> lucasvo, yes i explained it to you 2h ago
 bootsplash is enabled, but no dependency of ltsp-client yet 
 hi littlepaul 
 so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ... 
[06:40] <lucasvo> ah
[06:40] <lucasvo> 18:40 < ogra> <ogra> so if you install it manually, and regenerate the initramfs and run ltsp-update-kernels, it will be there ...
[06:41] <lucasvo> I didn't see that
[06:41] <lucasvo> ah crap
[06:41] <lucasvo> now this stupid nfs error comes again
[06:43] <lucasvo> ogra: chroot /opt/ltsp/i386/ && apt-get install edubuntu-artwork-usplash usplash && initramfs && ctrl+d && ltsp-update-kernels ?
[06:43] <ogra> nop
[06:44] <lucasvo> /boot/initrd.img-2.6.15-8-386 was been altered.  Cannot update.
[06:44] <ogra> you dont install initramfs
[06:44] <lucasvo> I don't install it :D
[06:44] <lucasvo> I just execute it
[06:45] <ogra> the updating of the initramfs is done through dpkg-reconfigure linux-image-2.6.15-8-386
[06:46] <ogra> or through update-initramfs -d -t
[06:50] <lucasvo> Not touching initrd symlinks since we are being reinstalled (2.6.15-8.10)
[06:50] <lucasvo> Not updating image symbolic links since we are being updated (2.6.15-8.10)
[06:50] <lucasvo> ok?
[06:51] <lucasvo> Skipping openfirmware images.  Install the mkvmlinuz package if you need them.
[06:51] <lucasvo> Skipping netabootwrap images.  Install the aboot package if you need them.
[06:52] <lucasvo> wow
[06:52] <lucasvo> it works
[06:52] <lucasvo> cool
[06:54] <lucasvo> thanks ogra 
[06:54] <ogra> :)
[06:54] <ogra> but if your boot isnt tweaked it might time out before you reach ldm ...
[06:55] <lucasvo> yes it does :(
[06:55] <lucasvo> ogra: how can I tweak it?
[06:55] <ogra> remove the unneeded startscripts (can explain which now, there is a spec for it ...)
[06:55] <ogra> bbl
[07:00] <MrMazda> what do people on edubuntu use instead of the missing mc?
[07:01] <lucasvo> MrMazda: nautilus?
[07:01] <lucasvo> MrMazda: cp, mv, ln ...
[07:01] <MrMazda> o_O
[07:02] <MrMazda> does nautilus work on VCs?
[07:03] <MrMazda> cp, mv, ln, etc seem a bit harsh for a kid
[07:05] <MrMazda> can apt or dpkg find me mc somewhere on a fresh default install?
[07:07] <lucasvo> why not using nautilus?
[07:08] <MrMazda> does nautilus work on VCs?
[07:08] <lucasvo> VC?
[07:08] <lucasvo> nautilus is graphical
[07:08] <MrMazda> tty[1-6] 
[07:08] <lucasvo> no it doens't
[07:08] <lucasvo> why should a kid use tty[1-6] 
[07:08] <lucasvo> ?
[07:09] <MrMazda> I don't boot a fresh install into GUI until basic configuration is done with an OFM
[07:09] <lucasvo> why?
[07:10] <lucasvo> why should a kid make basic configuration?
[07:10] <MrMazda> DOS heritage I guess
[07:10] <MrMazda> make it ready for me to understand what kid is up against
[07:10] <MrMazda> she's only 10
[07:10] <lucasvo> a kid is not supposed to use commandline :D
[07:10] <MrMazda> kid is no admin though
[07:11] <MrMazda> If I can't admin, she gets no edubuntu
[07:11] <lucasvo> exactly
[07:11] <lucasvo> how do you want to admin?
[07:11] <lucasvo> with mc?
[07:11] <MrMazda> 1
[07:11] <MrMazda> it's how I find out what's under the hood
[07:12] <MrMazda> and fix whatever's broke
[07:12] <lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~/ubuntu/student-control-panel-0.1$ apt-cache search midnight
[07:12] <lucasvo> gkrellmitime - Internet time plugin for gkrellm
[07:12] <lucasvo> gnome-vfs-extfs - The GNOME virtual file-system extra fs scripts for GMC.
[07:12] <lucasvo> juice - playlist editor / player frontend
[07:12] <lucasvo> junior-system - Debian Jr. System tools
[07:12] <lucasvo> krusader - Twin-panel (commander-style) File Manager for KDE
[07:12] <lucasvo> lfm - simple but powerful file manager for the UNIX console
[07:12] <lucasvo> mc - midnight commander - a powerful file manager
[07:12] <lucasvo> sorry for flood
[07:12] <MrMazda> np
[07:12] <lucasvo> see, there is mc
[07:13] <MrMazda> single prompt said not found
[07:13] <MrMazda> does your flood tell me it's available, or that it's already installed?
[07:15] <lucasvo> it tells you that it is available over the net
[07:15] <MrMazda> k
[07:15] <lucasvo> I have all feeds activated(universe and main)
[07:15] <MrMazda> the installer didn't actually finish
[07:15] <lucasvo> it should be in main
[07:15] <MrMazda> told me some programs were not installed (unknown reason)
[07:15] <lucasvo> for e.g. gcc :D
[07:16] <lucasvo> I was quite amazed 
[07:16] <MrMazda> k
[07:16] <lucasvo> I thought why does this stupid program not compile?
[07:16] <lucasvo> so I had to first install make and gcc 
[07:17] <lucasvo> ogra: I found it, now it is damn fast ! :D
[07:33] <MrMazda> lucasvo: I'm up against a no space left on device error
[07:33] <MrMazda>  / is full 
[07:33] <lucasvo> what disksize do you have?
[07:33] <MrMazda>  / is 1.95M
[07:34] <MrMazda>  /home is 1.6G
[07:34] <MrMazda>  / is 1.95G
[07:34] <lucasvo>                       7.2G  5.2G  1.7G  77% /
[07:34] <lucasvo> I have 5GB
[07:34] <MrMazda> so the aborted install must have left trash somewhere
[07:34] <lucasvo> MrMazda: ask in #ubuntu I don't know how much space you need
[07:35] <MrMazda> docs say 2G
[07:38] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you could try to delte the apt cache
[07:39] <MrMazda> where is it?
[07:39] <lucasvo> /var/cache/apt/archives/
[07:39] <MrMazda> k
[07:40] <lucasvo> don't you think 1.6gb is a little too much for one person?
[07:40] <lucasvo> I would rather do: 0.8gb for /home and the rest for /
[07:42] <MrMazda> 2 people, kid & her mom
[07:43] <lucasvo> ah, ok
[07:46] <MrMazda> mebbe I'll start over with 1.3G /home
[07:55] <lucasvo> MrMazda: is it working? rm -rf /var/cache/apt/archives/*
[07:55] <MrMazda> lucasvo: didn't go upstairs yet to try
[07:55] <lucasvo> MrMazda: ssh :D
[07:56] <MrMazda> not yet configured here
[07:56] <lucasvo> ssh is working out of the box
[07:56] <MrMazda> I said here
[07:56] <lucasvo> aha
[07:56] <lucasvo> you need ssh client?
[07:56] <MrMazda> This box is OS/2
[07:59] <vincenzio> os/2 is fantastic.
[07:59] <vincenzio> http://linuxmafia.com/ssh/os2.html
[08:00] <vincenzio> the hobbes ftp has a client on it.
[08:01] <MrMazda> I go upstairs to check the kid and to get exercise. Ssh is like paying someone to mow the lawn, then dying from lack of exercise.
[08:02] <lucasvo> lol
[08:03] <MrMazda> ssh client is already on my other keyboard, but also not configured (Mandriva 2006)
[08:03] <vincenzio> start walking, lucasvo.
[08:03] <vincenzio> start walking.
[08:37] <MrMazda> lucasvo: ~450M freed, dpkg(apt?) --configure -a running now
[08:37] <MrMazda> lotta screen activity
[08:37] <MrMazda> lotta gstreamer errors
[08:49] <MrMazda> still "Setting up ..."
[10:47] <MrMazda> lucasvo: that recovery attempt failed. I repartitioned to give / 2.25G, but next install attempt also failed on no space left on device error
[10:48] <MrMazda> guess I gotta go find some other distro that actually fits on the recommended minimum space
[10:49] <lucasvo> MrMazda: what are you installing?
[10:49] <lucasvo> MrMazda: ubuntu?
[10:50] <MrMazda> edubuntu
[10:50] <MrMazda> 5.1
[10:50] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I suggest you to go to #ubuntu and ask why it takes up so much space
[10:50] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I don't really know about installation procedure
[10:50] <lucasvo> MrMazda: since ubuntu and edubuntu are 95% the same it shouldn't be any problem
[10:53] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I would do it like this:
[10:53] <lucasvo> partition full drive to / 
[10:53] <lucasvo> install it
[10:54] <lucasvo> delete /var/cache/apt/archives/* and look how much space is left
[10:54] <MrMazda> ppl on #ubuntu say only 1.6G required
[10:54] <MrMazda> lucasvo: I'm a-865 on #ubuntu
[10:56] <MrMazda> lucasvo: maybe I should try it with the network cable disconnected?
[10:56] <MrMazda> how can there be so much on one CD?
[10:56] <lucasvo> MrMazda: yes
[10:56] <lucasvo> don't install network in the beginning
[10:57] <MrMazda> I'll go try that now
[11:01] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I already worked with suse, debian, gentoo, and I have never seen such a userfriendly demonstartion
[11:02] <lucasvo> s/demonstration/distribution/g
[11:09] <MrMazda> new install proceeding with network cable unplugged
[11:46] <MrMazda> first reboot into Knoppix instead to see only less than 900M used on /
[11:51] <lucasvo> hm, you know what!
[11:52] <lucasvo> that reminds me I once had a similar problem!
[11:52] <lucasvo> as well with a installation of ubuntu
[11:52] <lucasvo> I reburnt the cd and retried and it worked
[11:52] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I would try that
[11:54] <MrMazda> I used a 52X burner at 24X
[11:54] <lucasvo> strange
[11:55] <lucasvo> I had exactly the same problem
[11:55] <MrMazda> we'll soon see if the missing network cable fixes it