[12:03] <mdke> dholbach, you're on it tho right?
[12:03] <dholbach> yeah :)
[12:04] <mdke> ah well you can post about ubuntu-docs :)
[12:04] <dholbach> people are sick of me already, announcing this or that, .. :)
[12:05] <dholbach> but maybe i should sit down at the weekend and write a BIG post :)
[12:05] <mdke> you're the ubuntu love guy :)
[12:05] <dholbach> thanks :)
[12:22] <mdke> Kamion, around?
[12:30] <dholbach> good night everybody
[12:50] <Kinnison> BenC: thanks
[12:59] <Burgwork> mdke, I think I heard that Kamion is going away for a few days
[12:59] <Burgwork> something about us being all insane
[01:13] <mdke> Burgwork, hehe, ok I've mailed him
[01:35] <lllmanulll> Hey there, could anybody tell me where I can find bzr branches ? Are they stored on some URL, or should I just create a branch from a tarball (apt-get source) ?
[01:36] <mdke> lllmanulll, for what project?
[01:36] <mdke> many are at bazaar.ubuntu.com i think
[01:36] <lllmanulll> well, any package in fact...
[01:36] <lllmanulll> gnome-session in particular
[01:37] <lllmanulll> hmm, is that for bzr or baz ? :)
[01:37] <mdke> i don't know
[01:37] <lllmanulll> Ok, I'll try, thanks a lot :)
[01:38] <lllmanulll> Hmmm, none of them are newer than july 2005, I guess there must be somewhere else
[01:38] <mdke> oh whoops sorry
[01:38] <lllmanulll> no problem :)
[01:38] <lllmanulll> Anybody else awake ? :)
[01:49] <Fergus> lllmanulll, sure..
[01:50] <lllmanulll> Nevermind, I was told that most packages don't have bzr branches online
[01:50] <lllmanulll> right ?
[01:50] <tseng> right.
[01:50] <tseng> hct will fix that someday
[01:50] <lllmanulll> thanks :)
[01:56] <tseng> Kamion: flight 2 installer was alot more beligerent than usual :/
[02:12] <mjg59> tseng: Hi - did you see my comments about beagle?
[02:21] <tseng> mjg59: which
[02:21] <tseng> mjg59: (no)
[02:22] <mjg59> tseng: Fails with an old firefox
[02:22] <tseng> yes that would be a problem
[02:22] <mjg59> If it's built against 1.5, it probably needs to depend on it
[02:23] <tseng> probably shlibs or clilibs sucking
[02:23] <tseng> stuff that is invoked from managed code gets stuck in the twilight zone of depends:
[02:25] <tseng> mjg59: firefox (>= 1.4.99), hows that catch you
[02:26] <mjg59> tseng: Better, but then firefox can be upgraded and break it
[02:26] <mjg59> tseng: Diziet is looking into solving that. Basically, firefox will provide: firefox-abi-1.5
[02:26] <mjg59> Then you depend on that
[02:26] <mjg59> When the ABI breaks, the provides changes
[02:26] <tseng> I think ill cross that bridge when we come to it, then
[02:26] <tseng> file a bug if that happens please
[02:27] <mjg59> Heh. It will :)
[02:27] <mjg59> But yeah, will do
[02:28] <tseng> thanks.
[02:29] <tseng> if beagle goes through new in debian, is rejected and reuploaded..
[02:29] <tseng> is the revision incremented?
[02:30] <lifeless> should not be
[02:30] <lifeless> unless the dev made more changes before realising the rejection
[02:30] <tseng> that sucks
[02:30] <tseng> ill just sync it with the same revision in ubuntu, then
[02:30] <tseng> MoM be damned
[02:31] <tseng> (i jumped the gun and synced the version that went into NEW)
[02:32] <tseng> i blame seb128 and dholbach for repeated badgering and related shananigans
[02:38] <ajmitch> hopefully the orig.tar.gz is the same, at least
[02:39] <tseng> mjg59: you wish is granted
[02:39] <tseng> ajmitch: im sure it is
[02:40] <mjg59> tseng: Rock, thanks
[02:41] <tseng> nps
[03:17] <mhz> hi all
[03:18] <mhz> do you know if ubuntu/edubuntu should recognize 4GB of ram in a box?
[03:19] <elmo> mhz: yes
[03:19] <mhz> just by running 'free'? elmo
[03:20] <elmo> mhz: yes
[03:20] <mhz> okis, thx
[04:13] <crimsun> elmo: ping
[06:55] <infinity> elmo : Can libdrm2 get promoted to main, s'il vous plait?
[08:21] <tux-rox> Quick question, anyone working on backporting or fixing Evolution-Exchange Connector for Breezy? It is pretty crappy and I am really trying not to use Windows at work to be an example that it is possible......
[08:27] <seth_k> tux-rox, is there a new version in dapper? what's the package name?
[08:29] <tux-rox> seth_k, of course there is a new version in Dapper, but I am worried about having to update the entire GNOME interface to update the evolution packages. It as a lot of deps, and I'd rather not break my system. The name is evolution-exchange I believe.
[08:31] <seth_k> okay, I'll run a backport on it tux-rox, and we'll see what happens. It may be too greatly changed to install, but we can at least see :)
[08:31] <seth_k> it'll be a few minutes building and then i'll upload it for you to try
[08:31] <tux-rox> evolution-exchange_2.5.3-0ubuntu1_i386.deb is the latest in Dapper I think.
[08:31] <tux-rox> OK, cool. 
[08:32] <seth_k> yeah, that's the version that I'm building now
[08:33] <tux-rox> That would ROCK, as I really want this to go off and work without a hitch. People are already saying things like, "What's that on your computer?" or my manager saying, "You have a license for that right?" :-)
[08:33] <seth_k> hmm, it prefers libedataserverui1.2-dev >= 1.5.3 and breezy has only 1.4.1-0ubuntu3 :(
[08:34] <tux-rox> Actually, the list of deps when I tried the dapper package was 23...... :-(
[08:35] <tux-rox> That's why it is totally understandable that we are not seeing a really motivated effort to backport large apps like this, I think.
[08:36] <seth_k> well, loosening that build-dep made it satisfied, now it's just if it builds... which it may well not. But no harm in trying :)
[08:36] <tux-rox> Cool
[08:38] <seth_k> yup, no go. ftbfs if I loosed the build-dep
[08:38] <seth_k> and now you're looking at backporting a library, which is angry stuff, sorry :(
[08:38] <tux-rox> seth_k, I figured as much. No worries, but thanks a bunch for trying!
[08:39] <seth_k> no worries, poke me if you ever want a backport (maybe one with fewer dependencies :P)
[08:39] <tux-rox> seth_k, thanks, I'll keep it in mind! 
[09:17] <dholbach> good morning developers
[09:21] <Pygi> good mornin' dholbach
[09:24] <dholbach> hey pygi
[09:25] <pitti> Good morning
[09:29] <Pygi> mornin' pitti
[09:35] <pitti> Hi Pygi 
[09:44] <maswan> dholbach: Hmm.. Perhaps clicking around on a couple of files in nautilus and fiddling with properties etc would be a good short test too? (just found a nautilus crash in flight-2 on right-click/properties/open with)
[09:46] <dholbach> maswan: sounds like it
[09:47] <dholbach> :)
[09:47] <mvo> pitti: what do you think about moving to dbus 0.60? 
[09:47] <dholbach> maswan: could you install nautilus-dbg and include the backtrace in the bug report?
[09:47] <dholbach> maswan: (if it's reproducible)
[09:51] <pitti> mvo: fine for me
[09:51] <pitti> mvo: AFAIK it's already in Debian experimental
[09:52] <pitti> Diziet: you rock! (nss/nspr from firefox) thanks a million
[09:52] <mvo> pitti: yes, i have it runing here and beside the (usual) pain for the transition it seems to be working fine. I had to apply a amd64 patch though to make the debian/experimental version build. "long -> long long" otherwise qt4 complained loudly 
[09:52] <pitti> mvo: so we need to change all dbus dependencies?
[09:53] <pitti> hal, g-v-m, gvfs, g-p-m, etc.?
[09:53] <mvo> pitti: yes, new api/abi
[09:53] <pitti> mvo: hmkay, if you want to upload it now, I'll care for hal/gvm
[09:53] <mvo> so far everything worked with a recompile, but we may have to change g-p-m and gnome-applets a bit (it uses the old libnotify interface)
[09:54] <ogra> not true :)
[09:54] <mvo> no?
[09:54] <ogra> afaik its prepared for the new one already....
[09:54] <mvo> oh, nice (and even better) :) both? or only g-p-m?
[09:54] <ogra> i can only talk about g-p-m
[09:55] <mvo> I would love to ask one of the release team before to be sure that I don't do the upload at a inconvenient time. but mdz and kamion are on vacation
[09:55] <pitti> flight-2 is just out
[09:55] <pitti> we won't get a better time than now
[09:55] <pitti> mvo: and we'll also need the libsysfs2 transition
[09:56] <pitti> mvo: so I'd upload both at the same time, then get it through NEW, then rebuild hal/gvm against the new stuff
[09:56] <infinity> mvo : I'm pretending to be kamion while he's on VAC.  Go nuts.  Upload now, upload often.
[09:56] <infinity> (Also, I'm having a weekend right now, so this wasn't me)
[09:56] <mvo> pitti: ok, I do dbus, you do libsysfs2?
[09:56] <pitti> infinity: can you NEW?
[09:57] <pitti> mvo: yes
[09:57] <infinity> pitti : No, but elmo should wake up in a few hours. :)
[09:57] <pitti> mvo: I already have the sysfs packages prepared
[09:57] <mvo> infinity: can we have you after colins vacation as well please :) ?
[09:57] <infinity> mvo : You won't like me very much when I'm trying to do CD releases.  Colin's a much nicer person.
[09:58] <mvo> infinity: heh :)
[09:59] <dholbach> hellas vuntz
[09:59] <dholbach> vuntz: look at ubuntu-dekstop@
[10:05] <Mithrandir> dholbach: since you think the new live cd is faster, what do you think of http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/live-bootcharts/unionfs-squashfs-dapper-20051216-1.png vs http://people.ubuntu.com/~tfheen/live-bootcharts/unionfs-dapper-20051212-1.png ?  The latter is approximately the current live (+bootchart), the latter is with squashfs
[10:06] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: squashfs vanilla?
[10:07] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: I just used squashfs instead of cloop
[10:07] <ogra> Mithrandir, woah, why does the adduser take this long ?
[10:07] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: if I can suggest smg, try squashfs-lzma
[10:07] <dholbach> wow, Mithrandir, i'm thoroughly impressed
[10:07] <Mithrandir> ogra: because it needs to read libc, perl etc, etc off the image.
[10:08] <Mithrandir> ogra: it would look differently if I added a "chroot /target /bin/ls" before adduser, and you'd ask why ls needed ten seconds to do anything
[10:08] <ogra> heh
[10:08] <ogra> but it definately takes much longer in the second chart
[10:09] <Mithrandir> also, this is without readahead or file system reordering.
[10:10] <ogra> and i wonder why your x configuration takes much longer than mine in ltsp, i guess we're doing exactly the same at this point of booting
[10:10] <Kaloz> oh, lzam would make smaller files and would be faster btw, too ;)
[10:10] <maswan> dholbach: Ah, good plan. I'll update the bug report with that.
[10:10] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: cool, I'll take a look a it.
[10:10] <Mithrandir> ogra: because my file system is way slower, especially seeks?
[10:10] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: use the patches from our svn if you want to
[10:10] <dholbach> maswan: merci beaucoup
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: which "our"? :-)
[10:11] <ogra> Mithrandir, i dont think so... my nfs mount is slow as well ...
[10:11] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: OpenWrt
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: ah, excellent. :-)
[10:11] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: https://dev.openwrt.org/file/trunk/openwrt/target/linux/linux-2.6/patches/generic/002-squashfs_lzma.patch
[10:11] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: just didn't have any project connection on you in my head.
[10:12] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: and https://dev.openwrt.org/file/trunk/openwrt/target/lzma/lzma-406-zlib-stream.patch
[10:12] <Mithrandir> ugh, more kernel patching?  Well, I'll build images and see how much we save.
[10:12] <ogra> Mithrandir, mdz's idea was that we collect all debconf stuff and calll debconf communicate only once to reduce the time it by about 10
[10:12] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: yeah, I wanted to do nubuntu (eg. embedded ubuntu), just i was pretty busy with my own stuff
[10:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: you don't have 100-150ms seek times, I hope.
[10:12] <ogra> s/time/time for
[10:12] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: well, about space savings.. prepare to be amazed
[10:12] <ogra> that really depends on the network load here ;)
[10:13] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: using lzma vs. bzip2 is about using bzip2 vs. gzip
[10:13] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: I'm already in shock&awe about squashfs vs cloop.  Only sad thing is squashfs is read-only, so ppc might lose out a bit (since unionfs is oopsorama on ppc)
[10:13] <vuntz> dholbach: I've seen the translation (he sent me a private mail first). That's cool :-)
[10:14] <dholbach> vuntz: that's amazing
[10:14] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: well, we had cramfs, then squshfs, then squshfs-lzma. we were shocked with the switch of squashfs, too, until we saw lzma
[10:15] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: since then, I dream of someone implementing lzma for jffs2 ;)
[10:17] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: that'd be nice, agreed.. :-)
[10:22] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: http://www.linuxfromscratch.org/patches/downloads/linux/linux-2.6-lzma-1.patch
[10:22] <Kaloz> for the kernel optionally
[10:25] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: that's for lzma-compressing the kernel?
[10:25] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: I don't think we want to do that, at least not initially.  We're tight on space, but I'd like to not potentially break people's boots
[10:26] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: well, with squashfs-lzma you would gain at least 25-30%
[10:27] <Mithrandir> that's 500k, which is nice, of course.
[10:28] <Mithrandir> grr, where's keybuk when I need him?
[10:29] <Kaloz> 500K on a full cd? ;)
[10:30] <sivang> morning all
[10:30] <Mithrandir> yes, but I just freed up 25MB by going to squashfs and you're saying that lzma will be even better, so.. :-)
[10:32] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: well, using squashfs-lzma for the full cd should gain around 100M imho :p
[10:33] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: over squashfs or cloop?
[10:33] <Kaloz> over squashfs :P
[10:33] <Mithrandir> wow
[10:33] <Kaloz> .oO(now comes the "holy shit")
[10:33] <Kaloz> :)
[10:34] <Mithrandir> what's the svn-url to your repo?
[10:34] <ogra> yay, that would be awesome, my edubuntu ppc live already needs the overburn feature to fit on a 700MB CD
[10:34] <Mithrandir> ogra: ppc won't get this
[10:34] <Kaloz> for the full repo? https://svn.openwrt.org/openwrt/trunk/
[10:34] <ogra> gah
[10:35] <Mithrandir> ogra: at least not until unionfs is fixed there
[10:35] <ogra> ok, so some hope left :)
[10:37] <sivang> anybody know of a reliable way to check how much have passed since a user installed his system? also, how to set a question in our d-i, for enabling some feature or not? (by "feature" I mean http://wiki.ubuntu.com/HomeUserBackup)
[10:38] <sivang> *time
[10:38] <Treenaks> sivang: including OEM, or excluding?
[10:38] <ogra> sivang, adding d-i questions is a big nono
[10:38] <sivang> Treenaks: hmm, good question :)
[10:39] <shay|ubuntu> hi
[10:39] <sivang> hi shay|ubuntu 
[10:39] <Pygi> hi hi
[10:40] <shay|ubuntu> what's up :-)
[10:41] <sivang> hey Pygi 
[10:41] <ogra> sivang, or do you mean adding a debconf question to the package ? thats possible, but needs to be prio=low to not show up on installation ...
[10:42] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: hmm, the lzma-406-zlib-stream patch is needed for what?  That is, how do I generate the file system?
[10:43] <sivang> ogra: well, we did thought about adding this to d-i at install time, so someone could "no" it by pre-seeding for mass installs...
[10:43] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: ah, forget that one. tha tis for our kenrel only imho :)
[10:43] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: well, there is a patche for mksqushfs in there
[10:43] <ogra> sivang, thats suboptimal, and Kamion will surely oppose it ...
[10:43] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: that sounds better. :-)
[10:43] <sivang> ogra: I see
[10:44] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont: give back screem on i386 powerpc ia64, thanks.
[10:44] <jdub> sivang: check the creation date of a file created in both OEM and normal installations? not super reliable, but not terrible
[10:44] <sivang> jdub: /me tomboys :)
[10:45] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: sec, i point you the the original patches from Oleg 
[10:45] <sivang> jdub: if we add HUB to main, does it mean it will be both in OEM and normal automatically? 
[10:45] <jdub> sivang: only if it's in the desktop seed
[10:46] <sivang> jdub: ok, so OEM means base + desktop seed essentially?
[10:46] <ogra> sivang, if you want it installed, it needs to be seeded, thats what jdub meant
[10:46] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: http://oleg.wl500g.info/lzma/ infos: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/message.php?msg_id=10612560
[10:47] <sivang> ogra: ok, thanks
[10:47] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: and use the 2.6 kernel patch from our repo
[10:47] <ogra> sivang, adding stuff to main wont just install it ;9
[10:47] <ogra> ;)
[10:47] <sivang> jdub: thank as well ;-)
[10:47] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: thanks
[10:48] <sivang> ogra: sure, /me recalls.
[10:48] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: afaik newer version of the lzma sdk are even faster, I will take a look at those today
[10:49] <jdub> yep
[10:49] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: it seems to require me to have the lzma stuff installed, which isn't packaged, but I could do that.
[10:49] <Nafallo> infinity, lamont: nm, seems to be in state building everywhere except amd64, where it's installed.
[11:06] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: any idea if the 7zip patch has been submitted upstream?
[11:06] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: dunno
[11:31] <Mithrandir> Kaloz: it doesn't seem to build, though.
[11:33] <Kaloz> well, works for us :) so the problem should be there somewhere
[11:33] <Mithrandir> heh. :-)
[11:33] <Mithrandir> I guess some changes have happened in p7zip in the meantime, then.
[11:35] <Kaloz> p7zip? we are using the lzma sdk from 7zip.org
[11:36] <Mithrandir> the code seems to be the same, though
[11:36] <Kaloz> well, lzma406 works for us, as I've said, I will take a look later for the new versions
[11:37] <Kaloz> now I'm testing gcc 3.4.5, as that fixes a compiler bug with -Os
[11:38] <Mithrandir> ah, we're using 4.0
[11:39] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: that had the bug, too
[11:39] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: everything >= gcc 3.4
[11:40] <Kaloz> Mithrandir: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=22167
[11:40] <Mithrandir> does it only bite mips/el?
[11:41] <Kaloz> nope
[11:43] <Mithrandir> I would think we'd dragged that in, given that it was committed to the gcc repo in july
[11:45] <Kaloz> well, we didn't, yet :) and maybe all the madwifi problems we are facing will be fixed with this (and/or our 2.4 kernel will be bootable with gcc4 after this fix)
[11:58] <drakeoutlaw> hi all, is there an Ubuntu update for the ipw2200 driver. I need the 1.0.8 (latest) please
[12:00] <dholbach> drakeoutlaw: i guess you'd have more success with filing a bug report, stating where to get it, what the problem is with the old one and why it fixes it
[12:01] <drakeoutlaw> I could use the source from debian testing can't I
[12:01] <DocTomoe> What would it take to add alsaconfig to dapper?
[12:01] <HiddenWolf> drakeoutlaw, at your own risk, yes. :)
[12:01] <dholbach> drakeoutlaw: i suppose that doesn't change problems for ubuntu as a whole
[12:02] <drakeoutlaw> would module assistant work?
[12:03] <drakeoutlaw> i mean would module-assistant work in the downloaded .deb file?
[12:06] <drakeoutlaw> dholbach: wher does one file a bug report
[12:06] <dholbach> drakeoutlaw: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[12:06] <drakeoutlaw> dholbach: thanx
[12:14] <mvo> hey seb128 
[12:14] <seb128> hi mvo
[12:16] <dholbach> hellas seb128
[12:18] <pitti> Hi seb128 
[12:19] <pitti> seb128: e-d-s still didn't build :(
[12:19] <seb128> pitti: get infinity to look why
[12:19] <pitti> ENOINFINITY
[12:19] <seb128> he said he would do that first thing today
[12:20] <seb128> EIMNOTBUILDDADMIN
[12:22] <Robot101> surely EFINITE? :)
[12:22] <pitti> heh
[12:23] <ogra> seb128, he just said he'd throw a hammer at it ... iirc ... he probably did :P
[12:26] <joe_oblivian> hi everybody, I've an issue with the ubuntu-installer on ppc that has been going on through breezy and the two dapper flights. Basically, the ubuntu-installer refuses to read the apple partition map, even if mac-fdisk (from the shell)reads it correctly. I think the problem *might* arise from the fact I have HFSX partitions
[12:26] <joe_oblivian> If there is any ppc developer around, I'll be happy to send him a dump of my apple partition map
[12:27] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: it's a known bug.
[12:27] <fabbione> let me dig the number
[12:28] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: ok if it's known, it's okay. I've seen something in the forums but was not able to find it on launchpad
[12:29] <fabbione> it's in bugzilla
[12:29] <Nafallo> isn't bugzilla imported to malone now?
[12:29] <fabbione> Nafallo: would you hate me if i say i dunno?
[12:30] <ogra> i hope it isnt visible if it is ...
[12:30] <Nafallo> fabbione: nope, I just was under the impression. maybe staging or something :-P.
[12:30] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=20569
[12:30] <ogra> would be odd to have it in two places before we switch
[12:30] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: ok and scusa :-)
[12:31] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: no problem :)
[12:31] <ogra> hehe
[12:34] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: it's a pity, I cannot install the dapper on my ibook :-/
[12:37] <doko> elmo: please sync valgrind 1:3.1.0-2 from unstable, overwriting ubuntu changes
[12:38] <jordi> pitti, or whoever looks at alsa. I think you're interested in alsa-driver/incoming
[12:38] <jordi> it transitions to the new modprobe blacklists etc
[12:38] <pitti> jordi: we should get that automatically, but thank you
[12:38] <jordi> k
[12:39] <ogra> joe_oblivian, install breezy and upgrade ? 
[12:40] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: do you have the latest ibook from Apple?
[12:40] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: the end of 2005 model?
[12:40] <fabbione> ogra: it might not help at all
[12:40] <joe_oblivian> ogra: no the problem waas in breezy
[12:40] <ogra> hmm, hoary ?
[12:40] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: no I do have a 1.2 Ghz ibook from aug 2004
[12:41] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: you need to change the MacOS partition properties.. 
[12:41] <joe_oblivian> ogra: well, I might try
[12:41] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: your has journal+casesentive
[12:41] <fabbione> you need to kill casesensitive
[12:41] <fabbione> journal is fine
[12:41] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: I need case sensitiveness
[12:41] <fabbione> hoary won't help
[12:41] <fabbione> joe_oblivian: how so?
[12:42] <fabbione> it works even without.. it's an extra feature for something i couldn't even figure out 
[12:42] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: I have some code thet would needd to be rewritten if I do not use case sensitiveness
[12:42] <fabbione> hm ok
[12:42] <fabbione> than i guess you will have to wait for a fix
[12:43] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: I know.... I'd love to help testing any fix...
[12:43] <fabbione> we have none..
[12:44] <joe_oblivian> fabbione: ok, then maybe I'll wait for the AE driver to become stable enough and then I'll wipe tiger from my ibook
[12:45] <joe_oblivian> or maybe I'll try to install sid instead
[01:18] <seb128> is somebody working on gutenprint  (#19891)?
[01:37] <pitti> elmo: can you please NEW sysfsutils 2.0.0, so that I can complete the transition today?
[01:50] <lucasvo> when you click on an email adress like a@b.com in a terminal, does your evolution(if it is running) start up once again as well?
[01:59] <siretart> pitti: ogra send me to you, since my upgrade to dapper, sound is broken. System->Settings->Audio does not let me choose my soundcard, the selector is empty. I have 2 cards, sblive and onboard nforce4 shit. I want sblive as card0.
[02:00] <siretart> pitti: How do I debug the problem?
[02:00] <pitti> siretart: do you have 5 minutes? I'd like to finish my current task before coming to this
[02:01] <siretart> pitti: no problem. take your time
[02:03] <segfault> whats the new splash screen uusing?
[02:03] <Treenaks> SuSE ;)
[02:04] <segfault> that gfxboot?
[02:04] <ogra> yup
[02:04] <segfault> nice
[02:05] <ogra> not really, the theme markup seems to be very weird :)
[02:05] <ogra> but the outcome is great, agreed :)
[02:06] <segfault> im using dapper, but havent updated it for some days
[02:06] <segfault> is it just in the install cd or after installed it will appear too?
[02:06] <ogra> its in the install cd ...
[02:07] <ogra> we didnt change from usplash for booting ...
[02:07] <Nafallo> and livecd...
[02:07] <ogra> indeed :)
[02:25] <seb128> infinity: did you figure what's wrong with e-d-s build?
[02:29] <segfault> where's the server team?
[02:36] <pitti> Hi jbailey 
[02:37] <jbailey> moin, Martin.
[02:39] <mvo> hey jbailey 
[02:40] <jbailey> Herr Vogt!
[02:46] <usual> Not sure if this is the place to ask, does ubuntu plan on offering a directory services solution like the Fedora project has started? It looks very promising.
[03:11] <OgMaciel> \sh, good morning (or afternoon for you)...  can I pvt for 1-2 minutes?
[03:37] <\sh> OgMaciel: sure...but be careful I have a cold :)
[03:37] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[03:39] <mvo> Riddell: do you plan to ask for main inclusion of qt4 any time soon?
[03:39] <Riddell> mvo: yes, it'll be brought in by avahi
[03:39] <Riddell> mvo: who do you ask?
[03:40] <mvo> Riddell: I was asking because dbus 0.60 needs it as well
[03:41] <pitti> hm, seriously, that's just another upstream version
[03:41] <pitti> I don't see a need to do a report for that
[03:41] <Riddell> are we going to do dbus 0.60 in dapper?
[03:41] <pitti> mvo: does it even have a different source package name?
[03:41] <Riddell> pitti: qt4 does yes
[03:41] <Riddell> there's already a qt4 main inclusion report
[03:42] <pitti> Riddell: hm, that cries for 'RemovingDuplicates'
[03:42] <pitti> Riddell: if we have qt4 in main, can we drop qt3?
[03:42] <Riddell> pitti: no, not until we drop KDE 3
[03:42] <pitti> bah
[03:42] <Riddell> qt4 is quite different from qt3
[03:42] <pitti> mvo: what's the point of building dbus against qt4 when KDE uses 3?
[03:43] <pitti> mvo: could you please rather disable the qt4 bindings then?
[03:43] <pitti> oh, wait, then we wouldn't have any dbus qt bindings at all any more
[03:43] <Riddell> pitti: why?
[03:44] <Riddell> there are still qt3 dbus bindings (I hope)
[03:44] <pitti> me too
[03:44] <pitti> otherwise we'd be screwed
[03:44] <mvo> yes, we would have qt3 as well
[03:44] <mvo> I can disable it, sure
[03:45] <seb128> Binary: libdbus-glib-1-2, dbus-1-doc, monodoc-dbus-1-manual, libdbus-qt4-1-dev, libdbus-glib-1-dev, python2.4-dbus, dbus-1-utils, libdbus-qt-1-dev, libdbus-1-dev, libdbus-qt4-1-1, dbus, libdbus-1-2, libdbus-1-cil, libdbus-qt-1-1c2
[03:45] <seb128> there is libdbus-qt4-1-1, libdbus-qt-1-1c2
[03:45] <mvo> Riddell: is that ok with you too?
[03:46] <pitti> I *strongly* object against having two different qt versions in main, and used by other programs
[03:46] <pitti> that only cries for trouble
[03:46] <pitti> seb128: buildds are offline
[03:46] <seb128> what are the damn buildds doing, they are in VAC? :)
[03:46] <pitti> indeed they are
[03:46] <seb128> well
[03:46] <seb128> all that is a plan to get me not working on my VAC day I guess :p
[03:46] <seb128> fine, /me goes for some book reading :)
[03:46] <jbailey> seb128: You can help me hack on cdbs then. =)
[03:46] <Riddell> mvo, pitti: it's ok for now but at some point soonish people will be releasing programs that use qt 4 so it'll be needed in main before long 
[03:47] <pitti> seb128: I started Potter 6 yesterday :)
[03:47] <pitti> Riddell: hrm, that sucks
[03:47] <seb128> pitti: I'm reading the 2 atm and I really enjoyed the 1 (I enjoy the 2 as well) :)
[03:47] <Riddell> pitti: it'll be quite some time before we can get rid of qt3 from main
[03:48] <pitti> Riddell: http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=qt -> expect some security updates with doubled effort in the next three years...
[03:48] <\sh> seb128: bah I read them all :)
[03:48] <\sh> seb128: already :)
[03:49] <Riddell> pitti: qt4 is an almost complete re-write, I think most security issue won't affect both
[03:49] <pitti> Riddell: do you know how long upstream will support 3?
[03:50] <\sh> .oO(until all commercial clients switched to qt4?)
[03:50] <Riddell> pitti: not sure but as \sh says they have several thousand commercial clients to support
[03:50] <Riddell> so a few years yet
[03:51] <azeem> but maybe they support them via contracts, not by releasing patches to the public?
[03:51] <\sh> azeem: I don't think so...actually the applications in OSS are much more 
[03:51] <azeem> ok
[03:52] <\sh> azeem: and there are some OSS KDE Guys sponsored by QT which they don't want to push away..or towards GTK 
[03:52] <Riddell> azeem: all qt is dual licenced, gpl and proprietry.  they make the same releases as free software as they do to their clients
[03:52] <azeem> true
[04:04] <ptlo> both gtk 1.2 and 2.x are in main, they are paralel installable; if qt3 and qt4 don't step on each other toes, they to can then be in main, no? (just my 2c, i'm a user, not a packager/dev)
[04:04] <seb128> ptlo: we are trying to move gtk1.2 out of main
[04:05] <seb128> it's just here because some apps trigger it
[04:05] <jbailey> seb128: Just gnucash left, isn't it?
[04:05] <seb128> I think so
[04:05] <Treenaks> they still haven't ported that?!
[04:05] <seb128> no :/
[04:05] <Treenaks> omg
[04:06] <seb128> jbailey: oh, xmms too
[04:06] <seb128> but my opinion is that we could move xmms to universe
[04:06] <jbailey> I think so too.
[04:06] <jbailey> I don't think it's had any real security issues, so it's low risk to move it there.
[04:07] <jsgotangco> jbailey, gtk1 rules!
[04:07] <pitti> gnucash is in universe
[04:08] <jbailey> Really?
[04:08] <jbailey> Hmm.
[04:08] <jbailey> I'd bet that gnucash probably has more users than xmms on Ubuntu systems.
[04:08] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:08] <rob^^^> jbailey: I'd bet not
[04:08] <seb128> pitti: what requires gtk1.2 to main?
[04:08] <pitti> seb128, jbailey: it's much worse: http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/5823
[04:08] <jsgotangco> dunno almost every newbie ubuntu site i see mentions xmms as the most awesome winamp clone
[04:08] <rob^^^> I think xmms is forever a engrained
[04:09] <jsgotangco> rob^^^, just like bluesteel!
[04:09] <seb128> pitti: all the libs are a detail, that could come from one app
[04:09] <pitti> kicker-applets is scary
[04:09] <pitti> KDE uses gtk1.2
[04:09] <rob^^^> honestly, I've had such a rotten experience with gstreamer that I think most people fall back to safe xmms
[04:09] <jbailey> pitti: Sure, but alot of those would fall away all at once.
[04:09] <seb128> pitti: bonobo libglade0 have no reason to be here if an app doesn't trig them
[04:10] <Mithrandir> oh, this is cool, http://bootchart.err.no/ .  With the new bootchart package, adding bootchart=upload will upload the image as soon as the machine completes booting. :-)
[04:10] <rob^^^> although I hope it's going to be greatly improved with .10
[04:10] <seb128> rob^^^: you know there is a world between gst0.10 and xmms
[04:10] <pitti> seb128: it's mainly unixodbc, evms, xmms, kicker
[04:10] <\sh> Mithrandir: nice...but what about not having net access?
[04:10] <rob^^^> seb128: I know that
[04:10] <rob^^^> seb128: but xmms is "old" rhtyhmbox is "new"
[04:10] <jbailey> \sh: Don't chose upload then. =)
[04:10] <Mithrandir> \sh: then you can't upload, but will have to generate it locally, naturally.
[04:10] <rob^^^> and when "new" doesn't work you go to "old"
[04:10] <Mithrandir> \sh: like it is today.
[04:10] <seb128> rob^^^: you can play audio file with xine based app, with bmp, with loads of gtk2 non-gst app
[04:10] <ogra> Mithrandir, bootchart=upload,{normal|live|ltsp} to fiffernt dirs would be good
[04:11] <ogra> *different
[04:11] <\sh> Mithrandir: you know how people are playing with settings :)
[04:11] <seb128> rob^^^: no, I mean that's not "either xmms or gst"
[04:11] <rob^^^> seb128: I don't listen to music on my computer, and I know that Rhythmbox even has (or maby had) a non gstreamer backend
[04:11] <Mithrandir> \sh: yes, but it'll still generate the graph and stuff it in /var/log/bootchart.
[04:11] <seb128> rob^^^: you have ton of options that work as fine as xmms and doesn't force you to use gst
[04:11] <seb128> had yep
[04:11] <Mithrandir> ogra: hmm, good idea.
[04:11] <rob^^^> seb128: I'm just asying that most people just don't care and go back to xmms because it works, that's all
[04:12] <Mithrandir> ogra: apart from the fact that networking is broken on the cd so far, but that'll be fixed, eventually.
[04:12] <jbailey> rob^^^: How are you measuring "most"?
[04:12] <seb128> rob^^^: I doubt of the "most"
[04:12] <\sh> Mithrandir: but the timeout 
[04:12] <Mithrandir> \sh: what timeout?
[04:12] <rob^^^> I really do think _most_ users end up going back to xine + xmms
[04:12] <ogra> Mithrandir, at least i can guarantee working networking on thin clients (no internet, but networking) ;)
[04:12] <Mithrandir> \sh: it's run as the last init script, long after gdm has started.
[04:12] <Riddell> pitti: I think kicker-applets uses it for xmms controling
[04:12] <rob^^^> well msot users who really want to listen to mp3s all day
[04:13] <Mithrandir> ogra: it needs internet, due to hardcoding of the address
[04:13] <rob^^^> and most users who want to watch DVDs
[04:13] <ogra> yup
[04:13] <\sh> Mithrandir: ok..so the user doesn't see it
[04:13] <ogra> i was just kidding
[04:13] <rob^^^> and that sucks and I hope it works really great with gstreamer in Dapper
[04:13] <jsgotangco> not to mention it takes a small amout of screen real esteate
[04:13] <Mithrandir> \sh: well, it will take a bit of bandwidth to upload, but apart from that, no.
[04:13] <jbailey> rob^^^: Again, I only wonder how you're measuring most for those.
[04:13] <Mithrandir> \sh: and I think that's fine, since people will have to enable it explicitly.
[04:13] <jbailey> rob^^^: Certainly the phone calls that I've taken from people for support don't suggest that that's the case.
[04:13] <rob^^^> jbailey: look, I'm not about to send out a random mailing to find out what people do but I really think it's practically unusable
[04:14] <jbailey> But the number is statistically small.
[04:14] <\sh> Mithrandir: ok..
[04:14] <rob^^^> the fluendo folk's finally got together a test collection of media files though, so that's a big improvement
[04:15] <\sh> jbailey: <sarcastic mode on>It's only Linus</sarcarstic mode off>
[04:15] <seb128> rob^^^: xine is a different matter of xmms
[04:16] <seb128> rob^^^: gstreamer0.8 works pretty fine for sound, not for video
[04:16] <jbailey> \sh: That whole argument only bothered me because it missed the point that "everyone else does it this way" is a silly argument.  People obviously like gnome, and people obviously like KDE, because they still have communities and do releases.  It's sort of like how we know that slackware still has a community. =)
[04:16] <jbailey> (And that fvwm95 doesn't...)
[04:17] <rob^^^> seb128: i've still had some problems with audio, and it's definately a HUGE step over what .7 was and I'm hoping .10 will really nail it down
[04:17] <jsgotangco> hah
[04:17] <ogra> jbailey, it doesnt ??
[04:17] <ogra> o_O
[04:17] <jbailey> ogra: Yeah, I checked the other day.  Upstream has definetly orphaned fvwm95.
[04:17] <ogra> bah
[04:17] <jbailey> I can't remember why I was looking, but it was only a couple weeks ago. =)
[04:17] <\sh> jbailey: I agree :) well...Linus should switch to a paperless office :) then kde and gnome can remove the printing dialog for once and in the future ,)
[04:18] <rob^^^> seb128: I'm not knocking gstreamer or saying that its dumb or a waste of time, it's definately great and it's definately improving and I'm fine with that. But back to the original point I think alot of people use xmms because it just works
[04:18] <rob^^^> I don't have it installed, I think its ugly and hard to use
[04:18] <seb128> I think many people use totem-xine instead of totem-gstreamer
[04:18] <spacey_ki> xmms is really unfriendly
[04:18] <\sh> oh damn...it was all a fever nightmare...
[04:18] <seb128> I'm really not sure that new user go to xmms
[04:19] <rob^^^> but anyway we are all in agreement that gstreamer + totem + rhythmbox is the path of the futrue
[04:19] <jbailey> seb128: totem-gstreamer was fine until I wanted DVDs. =)
[04:19] <rob^^^> seb128: average joe doesn't but average joe doesn't have a 100gig collection left over from napster that they listen to all day either
[04:19] <jbailey> seb128: So in that respect breezy was a huge step up from hoary. =)
[04:20] <seb128> right :)
[04:20] <\sh> seb128: to be honest...totem-{gstreamer,xine} never worked for me...I can't play embedded avi files, I can't play embedded mpg2 files nothing..and external the same...I use mplayer or xine
[04:20] <seb128> gst0.10 will rock the dapper world :)
[04:20] <seb128> \sh: totem xine is the same as xine, no?
[04:20] <seb128> just with a different frontend
[04:21] <\sh> seb128: normally it should be the same...but somehow totem screwed...but it can always be me 
[04:21] <jbailey> seb128: I've found cases where xine is fine and totem-xine isn't.
[04:21] <jbailey> None in the last 8 months, though.
[04:22] <\sh> seb128: well I think it doesn't play together with my t64codecs
[04:22] <jbailey> \sh: t64codecs?
[04:22] <ogra> w32codecs*2 ?
[04:22] <maswan> btw: xmms was the only sound player I got to play sound on this system (alsa broken, oss kind of working)
[04:23] <\sh> jbailey: it's rot\sh for *censored*
[04:23] <jbailey> \sh: =) 
[04:23] <jbailey> \sh: I was more wondering if someone had ported w32codecs to amd64. =)
[04:23] <\sh> jbailey: lol 
[04:23] <jbailey> maswan: Breezy or dapper?
[04:24] <maswan> jbailey: breezy with custom 2.6.15 or dapper flight-2
[04:24] <jbailey> maswan: dapper recently got another alsa update, so if you're still having troubles, it would be awesome if you could file a report.
[04:24] <jbailey> Yeah, do make sure you file a report.
[04:24] <maswan> jbailey: Ok, i will. Yeah, I rebooted after the alsa update and still had no luck. I'll report it then.
[04:24] <crimsun> which alsa update?
[04:25] <jbailey> maswan: Thanks.  At this point in life, alsa ought to Just Work.
[04:25] <crimsun> (and we're about to get another due to the /bin/sh issue)
[04:25] <\sh> ok..another cigarette and then continuing my effords to clean my flat...even when I'm still sick
[04:25] <maswan> jbailey: Ok, it might be somewhat lacking support for hardware too. It is a fairly new hardware (as in needing 2.6.15 to see the sata hdd etc)
[04:26] <maswan> Oh, well. Off to that other computer for bug reporting with cut and paste instead of ircing.
[04:26] <jbailey> maswan: Then OSS really shouldn't work. =)
[04:27] <\sh> OSS = YouKnowWho Magic...dark, mysterious, and it will come back once in a while
[04:28] <seb128> \sh, jbailey: anyway, as always is you guys have bugs and switch back to some other apps instead of putting them to bugzilla we are not going to fix those automagically
[04:29] <jbailey> seb128: I dealt with upstream on the DVD issue.  As, I think, you asked me to at the time. =)
[04:29] <\sh> seb128: I can't report bugs because I don't have any legal playable source for linux
[04:29] <\sh> seb128: you will close the bug as "invalid because of t64codecs"
[04:29] <seb128> jbailey: yeah, but you mentionned "I've found cases where xine is fine and totem-xine isn't." :)
[04:29] <jbailey> seb128: Why do you assume I didn't file bugs? =)
[04:30] <jbailey> seb128: Have you ever known me to just shut up about bugs I hit? =)
[04:30] <seb128> because I'm subscribed to upstream bugzilla for totem (in fact was I changed that) and get Ubuntu/Debian bugs? :)
[04:30] <jbailey> seb128: With the totem folks I usually go on IRC.
[04:31] <seb128> I'm on the GNOME chans as well *g*
[04:31] <jbailey> seb128: Then check your logs, dear. =)
[04:31] <seb128> right, I sleep sometime :)
[04:31] <jbailey> seb128: Or don't care, since we're talking almost a year ago. =)
[04:31] <seb128> I'll pick this one
[04:31] <\sh> oh wait...
[04:32] <seb128> s/have/has/
[04:32] <jbailey> seb128: Besides, if you want more bugs, I've been pestering doko with OOo2 bugs.  I'm sure he'd love to give them to someone else. =)
[04:33] <\sh> seb128: totem could not play fd://0
[04:33] <jbailey> Is that file description zero or floppy zero? =)
[04:33] <\sh> no decoders found to handle that stream
[04:33] <\sh> which is mpg
[04:33] <Treenaks> \sh: I get that all the time, too
[04:33] <seb128> \sh: the totem-mozilla stuff is known to be crap
[04:34] <seb128> I was speaking about totem himself, not used from mozilla
[04:34] <seb128> we splitted the package so people can uninstall the mozilla part :p
[04:34] <jbailey> \sh: Make sure you have gstreamer0.8-plugins installed.
[04:34] <seb128> jbailey: no thanks ;)
[04:34] <jbailey> \sh: It's in universe, and includes a bunch of pieces that you really really want.
[04:35] <\sh> well..totem plays now the sound..but not the video
[04:36] <\sh> jbailey: so...by default you can't watch mpegs
[04:37] <jbailey> \sh: Sure.  But first let's figure out which problems are gstreamer, and which problems are Ubuntu packaging. =)
[04:38] <\sh> jbailey: ok..with universe plugins this works...while xvid not which is normal
[04:39] <\sh> totem http://mtaylor.be/photos/albums/userpics/10002/montgallet_sav_mpeg_lq.mpg
[04:40] <\sh> very funny btw..
[04:40] <\sh> and now..cleaning my flat
[04:41] <jbailey> seb128: ^^  Should he file a bug about that?
[04:42] <jbailey> seb128: Basically that the default gstreamer plugins don't cover everything that just installing xine does.
[04:42] <seb128> playing this video works here
[04:42] <seb128> with totem-gstreamer
[04:42] <seb128> what is the issue?
[04:43] <jbailey> Insufficient plugins by default.
[04:43] <seb128> right, but EPATENTS
[04:43] <jbailey> *shrug* If we can have xine in main, we clearly don't have that big of a problem with it. =)
[04:43] <seb128> read ubuntu-devel list
[04:44] <seb128> slomo has a xine package without ffmpeg and patented stuff ready to upload
[04:44] <jbailey> Ah nice.
[04:44] <jbailey> We're solving the problem by breaking the working one. =/
[04:44] <seb128> right :/
[04:44] <jbailey> ah well.  That will at least make it consistant.
[04:44] <slomo> the correct solution would probably be to fix the goverments ;)
[04:44] <Nafallo> hehe
[04:45] <crimsun> as long as users can click something in Add Applications to get it working, it should be fine
[04:47] <jbailey> Well, it's add the repo first at the least.
[04:47] <ogra> g-a-i does that for you
[04:47] <ogra> its just a matter of clicking ok
[04:54] <pitti> BenC: here?
[04:59] <BenC> pitti: yes
[04:59] <BenC> pitti: I'm rebuilding a new kernel that ignores the return value (printk's it)
[04:59] <pitti> BenC: oh, cool
[05:00] <pitti> BenC: I just wanted to ask whether there was still hope, or whether I should start with an userspace workaround
[05:00] <tseng> BenC: libata spewing garbage all over vts, well known?
[05:00] <BenC> tseng: depends on the messages
[05:00] <BenC> is it ata_piix?
[05:00] <tseng> a bunch of status crap
[05:01] <BenC> pitti: I think there is
[05:01] <BenC> tseng: are you using the ata_piix module?
[05:01] <maswan> jbailey: well, what can I say, xmms with OSS output works. I tried making mpg321 do oss output, but that just failed toio.
[05:01] <tseng> BenC: that doesnt sound very familiar, they're dell/intel laptops
[05:02] <jbailey> maswan: Make sure you only have one thing playing at once.  You might not have a hardware mixer.
[05:02] <tseng> also at home, will have to look at module list later
[05:02] <BenC> tseng: ata_piix is an intel ata module
[05:02] <tseng> oh, then probably yes
[05:02] <BenC> tseng: known then
[05:03] <maswan> jbailey: Well, changing to alsa output in xmms makes it not work. Changing back to oss makes it work.
[05:07] <jdub> Kamion: ping
[05:07] <jbailey> maswan: Right, alsa might be separately broken.  But that's probably what was up with mpg321.  It might be conflicting with gnome or xmms if you still have it running.
[05:08] <maswan> jbailey: well gnome (as in preferences/sound) can't find any sound device anyway. it it shoudn't hold it open. :)
[05:11] <HiddenWolf> seb128, Would it be possible to patch the "filetype unknown" errors of rhythmbox, totem etc to suggest installing $plugins? 
[05:12] <HiddenWolf> seb128, that'd at least make the issue clearer for new users, and help curb things like automatix and marillat.
[05:12] <seb128> HiddenWolf: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyCodecInstallation
[05:13] <HiddenWolf> seb128, ok, nm.
[05:17] <doko> jbailey: seb128 blatantly ignored you about the OOo bugs 
[05:17] <jbailey> doko: 10:34 <seb128> jbailey: no thanks ;)
[05:18] <seb128> :)
[05:18] <\sh> so..the worst dust is just magically gone
[05:33] <jsgotangco> ahh the business tour email is finally out
[05:44] <\sh> oh what's wrong with this archive mirror: 82.211.81.182?
[05:44] <\sh> (points from archive.ubuntu.com) one of the RR ips
[05:47] <mvo> \sh: ask Znarl about archive.u.c problems, he will know
[05:49] <\sh> Znarl: ping what's wrong with 82.211.81.182? Looks like it doesn't answer correctly anymore or no more :)
[06:16] <bddebian> Heya folks
[06:17] <sivang> yo bddebian ! long time
[06:17] <bddebian> Aye, hows it going sivang?
[06:18] <Znarl> \sh : This has been solved now.
[06:21] <pef> hello
[06:21] <bddebian> Heya pef
[06:21] <\sh> Znarl: cool thx :)
[06:21] <pef> hey bddebian :)
[06:22] <\sh> GOD^Wbddebian :)
[06:23] <bddebian> Hi \sh!!  How you been?
[06:24] <dholbach> infinity, lamont-away: do you have any idea, why libx11 has not been considered to build yet?
[06:25] <jbailey> bddebian: Decided you *do* in fact love us again? =)
[06:25] <seb128> dholbach: maybe because buildds were down for the whole afternoon?
[06:26] <bddebian> jbailey: I have always loved you.. ;-)
[06:26] <jdub> seb128: don't bring facts into the discussion
[06:26] <dholbach> seb128: that's a clever answer
[06:26] <bddebian> jbailey: Actually I just came back to make elmo, infinity, and others lives hell again.. ;-)
[06:28] <siretart> does anyone know where the -transcoded fonts went?
[06:28] <siretart> fonts gtk1 look UGLY without them
[06:29] <seb128> dholbach: it has built now
[06:29] <dholbach> ooh nice
[06:40] <seth_k> bddebian, ahhh! you're back!
[06:41] <bddebian> Kinda.  How have you been seth_k?
[06:41] <seth_k> good bddebian, just finished up fall semester and am heading home today :)
[06:41] <bddebian> Cool
[06:49] <\sh> elmo: please sync gnotime , knemo , ksynaptics , partimage , survex , netmrg , libcapsinetwork , libicq2000 from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes, thx
[06:53] <Diziet> Bah, looks like I'm defeated by ffox.  I'll just fix a couple of those easy bugs and think about the complicated ones after Christmas.
[08:21] <dilinger> oh man, that's a riot
[08:21] <dilinger> http://www.zwane.com/blog/?p=76
[08:33] <mdke> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[08:34] <mdke> [...]  ubuntu-desktop
[08:34] <mdke> ??
[08:35] <azeem> are you trying to remove a part of ubuntu-desktop?
[08:35] <mdke> no, just a dist-upgrade
[08:35] <mdke> it's removing gnomemeeting, that might be it I guess
[08:36] <jdub> mdke: don't dist-upgrade unless you really know you want to
[08:36] <mdke> it was only X stuff kept back from a normal upgrade, so i thought I might as well give it a go
[08:37] <mdke> oh perhaps not
[08:37] <mdke>   libgl1-mesa libgl1-mesa-dri libpt-plugins-alsa libpt-plugins-v4l
[08:37] <mdke>   libpt-plugins-v4l2 libx11-6 libx11-dev
[08:52] <jdub> so the only thing that needs libopenal0 in desktop appears to be rss-glx
[09:11] <xhaker> BenC, you there? do you know why ipw2200 in your kernels are not monitor mode'able
[09:12] <BenC> xhaker: I just build the source that I download, not sure why it would not be enabled (if in fact it should be)
[09:12] <BenC> maybe something to do with the firmware?
[09:12] <xhaker> i was thinking that also
[09:13] <xhaker> but the firmware is there, including the monitor mode ones
[09:13] <xhaker> could udev be "forgetting" to load then too?
[09:13] <BenC> does dmesg say it loaded it? and does it say it loaded the right one?
[09:14] <xhaker> the firmware? i don't think dmesg spits anything about firmware
[09:15] <BenC> ipw2200 should say whether it loaded firmware or not
[09:15] <xhaker> it doesn't say
[09:15] <xhaker> but it does say something i already told you before
[09:15] <BenC> ah, you need debug enabled
[09:16] <xhaker> Warning: PCI driver ipw2200 has a struct device_driver shutdown method, please update!
[09:16] <BenC> that's a warning
[09:16] <BenC> doesn't affect operation
[09:16] <xhaker> i know, have you tryed compiling it without the struct?
[09:16] <BenC> you can't compile it without the struct :)
[09:17] <xhaker> ;)
[09:17] <xhaker> i'll enable debugging a see what it says
[09:17] <xhaker> brb
[09:17] <BenC> it's the shutdown method that is attached to the struct
[09:17] <hub> hi
[09:18] <BenC> xhaker: CONFIG_IPW2200_DEBUG
[09:18] <jbailey> sivang: It does a horrid job of it.
[09:18] <hub> apparently the latest kernel make my startup hang
[09:18] <hub> on "Locating and activating hardware"
[09:18] <xhaker> BenC, shouldn't i be able to just pass debug=1 to modprobe?
[09:19] <BenC> no, because CONFIG_IPW2200_DEBUG is not set
[09:19] <hub> kernel 2.6.15-8.10
[09:19] <hub> I switched back to 2.6.12-9.23
[09:19] <BenC> the compile time option has to be enabled for the runtime option to work
[09:19] <sivang> jbailey: ok, then I'll refrain from using it :)
[09:19] <BenC> hub: check bugzilla.ubuntu.com for similar reports for the "linux" component, and if you don't see one, file a bug
[09:20] <xhaker> BenC, so it think i'll have to pass :/
[09:20] <xhaker> s/it/i
[09:20] <hub> benC I was logging in on Launchpad :-)
[09:20] <BenC> bugzilla
[09:20] <hub> ok
[09:20] <BenC> I don't use launchpad yet, until they put everything over there
[09:20] <hub> BenC: no problem :-)
[09:20] <BenC> thanks
[09:22] <sivang> jbailey: I see there another hacker besides Joey now, Craig Small
[09:22] <sivang> jbailey: (in dh'd made rules)
[09:24] <hub> BenC: bug 21127
[09:28] <hub> BenC: what do you mean by "boot into recovery"?
[09:37] <HiddenWolf> hub, select the second option in grub when booting
[09:37] <hub> HiddenWolf: I don't have grub
[09:37] <hub> because grub never worked on this machine
[09:38] <hub> I have Lilo
[09:38] <HiddenWolf> lilo then.
[09:38] <hub> LinuxOLD is the other option
[09:38] <hub> that is what I have booted with
[09:38] <HiddenWolf> hm.
[09:39] <HiddenWolf> kernel          /vmlinuz-2.6.12-10-k7 root=/dev/mapper/Ubuntu-root ro single
[09:39] <HiddenWolf> that's the line for my rescue option
[09:39] <HiddenWolf> adjust for your kernel version and root location.
[09:42] <hub> boot in signle user? ok
[10:23] <HiddenWolf> Why is dapper still getting new Firefox 1.49-RC3 uploads? Wouldn't 1.5 be more logical?
[10:28] <HiddenWolf> Diziet, Thanks for fixing bug 17461, btw
[10:28] <crimsun> 1.5RC3 _is_ 1.5.
[10:29] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, if the package isn't called 1.5, people won't see it that way. :)
[10:29] <crimsun> provide a patch for the cosmetics, then.
[10:29] <Nafallo> Accepted firefox 1.4.99+1.5rc3.dfsg-1ubuntu6
[10:29] <Nafallo> 1.5rc3 is the package
[10:30] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, nothing in that name says 1.5 final. :/
[10:30] <HiddenWolf> at least, not to me.
[10:30] <Nafallo> well, it's not final. it's rc3
[10:32] <HiddenWolf> upstream is, right?
[10:33] <HiddenWolf> but never mind
[10:34] <Nafallo> is final even out?
[10:35] <crimsun> 1.5rc3 is final.
[10:35] <Nafallo> http://www.mozilla.org/projects/firefox/ says latest is rc3, which we have.
[10:35] <Nafallo> crimsun: how silly not to name it 1.5 then? :-)
[10:35] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, http://www.mozilla.com/ does
[10:36] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, firefox switched from .org to .com to give it corporate credibility
[10:36] <Nafallo> lol, how... dumb :-P
[10:37] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, not really. You can't sell services, too much merchandise or whatever from a foundation.
[10:37] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, make the foundation own a company, and you can exploit yourself to the full extend of the law.
[10:37] <HiddenWolf> Nafallo, and companies like dealing with other companies. :)
[10:38] <Nafallo> HiddenWolf: huh? I was referring to mozilla.com/firefox, they've dropped /products in the url.
[10:38] <crimsun> HiddenWolf: a simple search will confirm that 1.5rc3 is 1.5.
[10:39] <HiddenWolf> crimsun, probably best to patch the name of the package then. I won't be the last that's confused.
[10:47] <Tonio_> hum........
[10:47] <Tonio_> found a little problem with the latest kernel....
[10:47] <jpatrick> Hi Tonio_ 
[10:48] <Tonio_> tun device doesn't seem to work...
[10:48] <Tonio_> hi jpatrick  :)
[10:48] <Tonio_> sudo morprobe tun && ifconfig -a
[10:48] <Tonio_> gives me nothing
[10:48] <Tonio_> as consequence my openvpn client doesn't work anymore
[10:48] <Tonio_> was the kernel build with tun option ????
[10:49] <Tonio_> tried on 3 machines, same problem....
[10:50] <Tonio_> can someone confirm that he has the same problem ?
[10:50] <mgalvin> Tonio_: you might what to ask that on #ubuntu-kernel
[10:50] <Tonio_> mgalvin: k, thanks for the link ;)
[10:51] <mgalvin> np
[11:20] <lucasvo> jdub: is there any info about the ubuntu-on-tour, will it include Switzerland?
[11:20] <Treenaks> lucasvo: is Switzerland in Asia? :)
[11:21] <lucasvo> Treenaks: no
[11:21] <jdub> lucasvo: the asian business tour won't, because switzerland has not yet annexed itself to, say, singapore. though that would be an interesting mix, and i would fully support it if you decided to do so.
[11:21] <Treenaks> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AsiaBusinessTour
[11:21] <lucasvo> https://wiki.edubuntu.com/UbuntuWorldTour?highlight=%28ubuntu%29%7C%28on%29%7C%28tour%29 < lol produces internal server error
[11:22] <Seveas> jdub, lol :)
[11:22] <lucasvo> jdub: and the swiss buisness tour :D ?
[11:22] <Treenaks> Swissness tour :)
[11:23] <lucasvo> By "Importance" or specific criteria - For example, Top Ten Cities by population: Tokyo, Mexico City, Sao Paolo, Mumbai, New York, Shanghai, Los Angeles, Lagos, Calcutta, and Buenos Aires. < definately not CH
[11:23] <jdub> lucasvo: i am coming to belgium soonish
[11:23] <lucasvo> By LoCo Involvement -Visit strong LoCo communities or perhaps places with low LoCo turnout. < not yet
[11:23] <Treenaks> jdub: FOSDEM?
[11:23] <jdub> lucasvo: oh, the world tour is something a bit different
[11:23] <jdub> Treenaks: YES
[11:23] <lucasvo> jdub: it is not that far from CH
[11:23] <jdub> my first fosdem
[11:24] <jdub> lucasvo: yes! so you should come to fosdem :)
[11:24] <lucasvo> jdub: hm, what's the difference?
[11:24] <Treenaks> hmm.. 
[11:24] <jdub> lucasvo: the world tour was an idea for something slightly bigger, but we're splitting it up between regions and topics of interest now
[11:24] <lucasvo> jdub: a) I have school b) I don't know how to drive a car c) my parents wouldn't allow it
[11:24] <Treenaks> lucasvo: Brussels is a major train hub; Planes work too;
[11:24] <lucasvo> $$$
[11:25] <jdub> lucasvo: hrm. same position as me. except swap parents for wife.
[11:25] <lucasvo> what about 22c3?
[11:25] <jdub> and s/school/work/
[11:26] <jdub> lucasvo: so i will probably do some other things while i'm over there, and that could include switzerland - look out for another tour announcement, i might do another call for petitions :)
[11:26] <lucasvo> What will people do at the Conference? Classes on how to do important types of advocacy including: Lobbying governments;
[11:26] <lucasvo> *lol*
[11:26] <lucasvo> jdub: you could hold a talk at lugs
[11:26] <\sh> jdub: you're coming to FOSDEM? well I hope I can make it :)
[11:27] <jdub> \sh: and linuxtag
[11:27] <jdub> lucasvo: that's what the petition is for ;-)
[11:27] <lucasvo> jdub: where is linuxtag?
[11:27] <lucasvo> Karlsruhe?
[11:27] <\sh> jdub: well...actually I have to check if I have the time for coming to fosdem..eventually together with ogra :)
[11:27] <dholbach> Wiesbaden, I think
[11:27] <\sh> wiesbaden...new locations
[11:27] <lucasvo> ah, ok
[11:27] <mvo> oh, wiesbaden? nice
[11:27] <dholbach> good night everybody
[11:28] <mvo> have fun dholbach 
[11:28] <lucasvo> wiesbaden, it is quite near to CH isn't it? :D
[11:28] <dholbach> merci
[11:28] <lucasvo> good night dholbach... 
[11:28] <\sh> lucasvo: na...it's next to frankfurt/main
[11:29] <lucasvo> \sh: hm :(
[11:29] <\sh> lucasvo: from basel I think 2-3 hours drive
[11:29] <lucasvo> ok
[11:29] <lucasvo> so 4h from zurich
[11:34] <Seveas> jdubuntu @ fosdem?
[11:34] <Seveas> cool :)
[11:35] <\sh> Seveas: Project "Dutch Weed for Jdubuntu in Beligium"? ;-)
[11:36] <Seveas> rofl
[11:36] <Seveas> I could arrange that :)
[11:36] <Seveas> it'll just remind him of the huge buttplug :p
[11:36] <\sh> Seveas: I mean jdubs "orange dress at ubz" was a message to the netherlands :)
[11:37] <Seveas> hehe
[11:37] <\sh> "This is Jdub Of Ubuntu, resistance is futile..we will assimilate you" (sorry jdub)
[11:38] <jdub> s/assimilate/inhale/
[11:38] <Seveas> hmm, that calls for a little gimp sideproject
[11:41] <\sh> "dum dum de dum *ubuntu* de dum dum dum *ubuntu*"
[11:41] <Simira> I'm alive again!!!
[11:41] <Simira> humtidum.. my desktop still blipping... 
[11:42] <Simira> has anyone got any idea why my new arctic cooling freezer 64 makes my mainbord go "bipp" at random times?
[11:43] <\sh> "artic cooling freezer 64"?
[11:43] <Simira> \sh : cpu cooler for amd 64
[11:43] <Simira> or freezer :p or something. Really good anyway, except from that noise.
[11:45] <\sh> Simira: hmmm..It can't be so loud as mine cheap one 
[11:46] <\sh> but only god knows why my body temperature is increasing again....the whole day it was ok...and now...
[11:47] <azeem> you're heating up for Friday night!
[11:48] <\sh> azeem: there is a difference between "why I'm getting hotter" and "my body temperature is increasing"
[11:48] <jdub> guys
[11:48] <\sh> going to bed...
[11:48] <tseng> badgers
[11:48] <jdub> i'm putting together a list of powertools
[11:48] <Simira> \sh : it's pretty low, it's just making a short "beep" from time to time. Like indicating a hw-error, which I can't find. 
[11:48] <jdub> to revive the gnome powertools release suite
[11:48] <jdub> which i'm going to re-kickstart
[11:48] <tseng> im a powertool
[11:48] <jdub> here's what i started with:
[11:48] <jdub>  * brightside
[11:48] <jdub>  * deskbar
[11:48] <jdub>  * devilspie
[11:48] <jdub>  * gnome-launch-box
[11:48] <jdub>  * nautilus-actions
[11:48] <jdub> 
[11:49] <jdub> any suggestions for additions?
[11:49] <jdub> i'm thinking maybe tomboy
[11:49] <tseng>  * openbox
[11:49] <jdub> tseng: penis
[11:49] <Seveas> tomboy++
[11:49] <\sh> jdub: powertools in what meaning?
[11:49] <tseng> jdub: hm, resapplet?
[11:49] <jdub> \sh: like, rad utilities that crank up the gnome experience for geeks
[11:49] <jdub> tseng: hmm...
[11:49] <Seveas> jdub revelation (which has a funky applet now too)
[11:49] <jdub> tseng: bit boring. i haven't included netspeed for the same reason.
[11:49] <jdub> tseng: if the authors propose them, i might
[11:49] <azeem> jdub: deskbar-applet
[11:49] <jdub> Seveas: was ist das?
[11:49] <jdub> azeem: that's deskbar
[11:50] <tseng> he said deskbar
[11:50] <Seveas> password manager
[11:50] <tseng> (which is totally elite)
[11:50] <azeem> jdub: d'oh :)
[11:50] <jdub> Seveas: oh, the not g-k-m thingy?
[11:50] <Seveas> no
[11:50] <\sh> jdub: oh yes..."comical" a cbz/cbt reader so I can read my fav. marvel comics while I'm compiling
[11:50] <\sh> but I have to package it first 
[11:50] <jdub> Seveas: hmm
[11:50] <jdub> Seveas: i think that's more of an app than a powertool
[11:51] <azeem> \sh: can you only read them whil compiling?
[11:51] <azeem> :)
[11:51] <jdub> \sh: more of an app than a powertool
[11:51] <jdub> \sh: looks rad though
[11:52] <jdub> powertools are kind of like extensions
[11:52] <jdub> strap-on missile-launchers
[11:52] <jdub> stuff like that
[11:52] <jdub> batbelt stuff
[11:53] <jdub> microcrack!
[11:54] <\sh> well..i'm only using tomboy vi and a terminal...and pbuilder...even with gnome or kde...which makes me not your customer but I'm thinking
[11:54] <Seveas> an apple dashboard like thingie would be nice
[11:55] <Seveas> which would be relatively easy to implement as an extension to gdesklets I guess
[11:55] <tseng> Seveas: ergh
[11:56] <Seveas> tseng, dashboard is coo
[11:56] <Seveas> l
[11:56] <tseng> gdesklets are not
[11:56] <Seveas> true
[11:56] <mdke> widely used tho
[11:57] <thierry> how can I take my gpg key, and get it in my chroot ?
[11:57] <Seveas> cp ~/.gnupg /path/to/chroot
[11:57] <jdub> thierry: cp -r ~/.gnupg /wherever/you/want/it
[11:58] <Seveas> jdub, sshfs is a nice powertoof
[11:58] <Seveas> tool even
[11:58] <Seveas> i'm writing a similar thing for gnome-vfs
[11:58] <azeem> isn't there one already?
[11:58] <mdke> what does it do?
[11:59] <Seveas> yeah, buggy as hell....
[11:59] <azeem> somebody should write an interface between FUSE modules and gnome-vfs
[11:59] <Seveas> mdke, imagine: mount ssh://server/path /remote/server
[11:59] <Seveas> azeem, that's what I'm doing
[11:59] <azeem> generic?
[11:59] <azeem> cool
[11:59] <mdke> Seveas, does that help?
[12:00] <Seveas> mdke, sometimes
[12:00] <mdke> oh remote/server
[12:00] <Seveas> I use it a lot olready
[12:00] <mdke> i was gonna say I use nautilus for ssh transfers
[12:00] <Seveas> yeah, but not all apps speak gnome-vfs
[12:00] <Seveas> with this you truly mount them
[12:00] <mdke> aha
[12:01] <Seveas> mount computer:/// /somewhere even works
[12:01] <Seveas> it is of NO use whatsoever, but it works :)