[12:45] <MrMazda> lucasvo: didn't work, downloading kubuntu now
[12:48] <MrMazda> download complete
[12:48] <MrMazda> losts faster than yesterday
[12:49] <mhz> uuuufff
[12:49] <mhz> finally
[12:49] <MrMazda> mhz: 3 attempts to install failed with disk full, so now gonna do kubuntu instead
[12:50] <mhz> this is not logical :(
[12:50] <MrMazda>  /var/cache/apt/archive over 500M of stuff
[12:51] <mhz> how big is your HD?
[12:51] <MrMazda> 1st 2 tries 1.95G /, 3rd 2.25G /
[12:52] <MrMazda> ppl on #ubuntu said 1.6G should be enuf
[03:21] <MrMazda> lucasvo: kubuntu installed, but it's stuck at 640x480 :-p
[04:02] <Lord_Athur> I'm a linux user, but I'll have to use win a few days
[04:02] <Lord_Athur> is there a program to work on terminal from win?
[04:03] <pitux> Lord_Athur putty
[04:03] <pitux> connect with ssh 
[04:04] <Lord_Athur> but I haven't got a linux server :S
[04:04] <Lord_Athur> is there an emulator?
[04:12] <Lord_Athur> bye
[04:29] <luluroot> lucasvo: this be the new MrMazda system running kubuntu, Firefox & Chatzilla 
[05:42] <mhz> re
[06:04] <MrMazda> mhz: struck out 3 times with out of disk space on edubuntu, got kubutu going OK o_O
[02:15] <lucasvo> MrMazda: cool, you did it?
[02:16] <lucasvo> MrMazda: if you want to install edubuntu just type: apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
[02:17] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you screen resolution is working/
[02:48] <MrMazda> lucasvo: I had to add manually to xorg.conf the missing HorizSync and VertRefresh, then the higher resolutions worked
[02:48] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I had the same problems
[02:48] <lucasvo> MrMazda: best to do is: submit a bug in bugzilla.ubuntu.com
[02:49] <MrMazda> consoles randomly get error messages making them useless
[02:49] <MrMazda> bug about the bad edubuntu installs? about the defective xorg.conf?
[02:52] <lucasvo> defective xorg.conf
[02:53] <MrMazda> k
[02:53] <MrMazda> where/what name is the installation log?
[02:54] <MrMazda> lotsa gstreamer and fontconfig error messages during install on tty4
[02:56] <lucasvo> MrMazda: /var/log/x*.log
[02:57] <MrMazda> k
[02:57] <lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ vi /var/log/Xorg.20.log.old
[02:57] <MrMazda> 20 is from the installer?
[03:01] <lucasvo> no
[03:01] <lucasvo> MrMazda: look at all of the Xorg logs
[03:03] <jelkner> ogra: good morning oliver
[03:03] <lucasvo> 15:03 < djm62> lucasvo: sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-corg
[03:03] <lucasvo> MrMazda: delete all the /var/log/Xorg*
[03:04] <lucasvo> then do:  sudo dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg
[03:04] <lucasvo> MrMazda: then you can attach the xorg.log
[03:04] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you have to do that in tty2-5
[03:05] <lucasvo> MrMazda: and then you have to add horzsync again
[03:05] <MrMazda> lucasvo: I have to go upstairs to do all this
[03:05] <MrMazda> lucasvo: I saved the original xorg.conf
[03:05] <lucasvo> ok
[03:05] <lucasvo> MrMazda: or ssh I think :D
[03:12] <lucasvo> hi Yagisan 
[03:12] <lucasvo> MrMazda: running kda?
[03:13] <Yagisan> G'day lucasvo
[03:13] <lucasvo> MrMazda: try apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
[03:13] <MrMazda> I don't like Gnome
[03:13] <lucasvo> MrMazda: why? 
[03:13] <lucasvo> because of linus? :D
[03:13] <lucasvo> MrMazda: in edubuntu-desktop you get all  the education apps
[03:14] <MrMazda> used to KDE since years ago when Gnome was awful
[03:14] <lucasvo> MrMazda: yes, I did too, I am using gnome since warty
[03:14] <MrMazda> gotta find out if enuf space left on device :-D
[03:14] <lucasvo> MrMazda: apt-get remove kde
[03:14] <MrMazda> added some stuff already, so it's pretty full
[03:14] <ogra> MrMazda, how much space do you have ? 
[03:14] <MrMazda> o_O
[03:15] <MrMazda> gotta go upstairs to see what's left
[03:15] <MrMazda> 2.25G to start with for /
[03:15] <ogra> thats not enough for a default edubuntu ...
[03:15] <ogra> you'll need ~2.6G
[03:15] <MrMazda> I read some doc that said needs 2G
[03:15] <Yagisan> that's barely enough for normal ubuntu
[03:16] <ogra> 2.2G is fine for a normal ubuntu, edubuntu brings more apps
[03:16] <ogra> kdeedu and all the kde stuff we ship is an ugl beast ...
[03:16] <ogra> *ugly
[03:16] <lucasvo> apt-get remove qt
[03:17] <ogra> heh
[03:17] <Yagisan> MrMazda, normal ubuntu installs in 2G, but whoever wrote that never tried it. I did - you don't have any space left.
[03:17] <lucasvo> I hate the qt dual licensing :(
[03:17] <ogra> its gone with qt4
[03:17] <lucasvo> ogra: it is?
[03:17] <Yagisan> lucasvo: why ?
[03:17] <ogra> afaik, yes
[03:17] <ogra> hey jelkner 
[03:18] <lucasvo> Yagisan: for e.g. german post had to remove their stampit *proprietary* plugin for openoffice since it includes qt
[03:18] <MrMazda> looks like I could get some space back by removing a bunch of eastern fonts
[03:19] <MrMazda> way lotta font packages installed
[03:19] <lucasvo> MrMazda: did you clear /var/cache/apt/archives/?
[03:19] <MrMazda> got 450K back from doing that manually
[03:19] <ogra> yes, that might give you 2-300MB
[03:19] <ogra> eeek
[03:19] <ogra> never do that manually
[03:19] <jelkner> ogra: good morning
[03:19] <ogra> use apt-get clean for that
[03:19] <MrMazda> couldn't find another way
[03:19] <lucasvo> ogra: ok
[03:20] <Yagisan> lucasvo: that's what happens when you don't read the license
[03:20] <MrMazda> that wasn't what was suggested yesterday
[03:20] <ogra> MrMazda, i wasnt around in the evening :)
[03:20] <MrMazda> someone said some other kind of clean
[03:20] <lucasvo> Yagisan: they are allowed to include their software with dual licensing?
[03:20] <lucasvo> MrMazda: *me*
[03:20] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I was wrong
[03:20] <MrMazda> too late now :-)
[03:21] <ogra> yup
[03:21] <ogra> wont break heavily though, dont worry ...
[03:21] <MrMazda> already added repositories and updated
[03:22] <MrMazda> gimp
[03:22] <MrMazda> mc
[03:22] <Yagisan> lucasvo: the author of qt can license it however they like.
[03:22] <ogra> but as a rule of thumb, if there is a tool in a linux system, never edit files manually or delete stuff, you might miss something that tool would do as well
[03:22] <MrMazda> firefox/thunderbird
[03:22] <MrMazda> I know that rule
[03:22] <MrMazda> gotta be able to find that GUI tool though
[03:22] <lucasvo> MrMazda: synaptic?
[03:22] <ogra> for maintaining packages ? 
[03:22] <ogra> thats synaptic or gnome-app-install
[03:23] <ogra> kubuntu/kde has something similar
[03:23] <lucasvo> gnome-app-install is lame
[03:23] <ogra> why ?
[03:23] <MrMazda> synaptic, dpkg, apt, adept - too many different tools for packages
[03:23] <lucasvo> it only provides the most common packages
[03:23] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you forgot aptitude
[03:23] <ogra> gnome-app-install is far superior to synaptic on the usability side
[03:23] <MrMazda> aptitude, synaptic, dpkg, apt, adept - too many different tools for packages
[03:24] <ogra> they do different things :)
[03:24] <ogra> synaptic and aptitude are just frontends
[03:24] <lucasvo> dpkg is included into almost everything
[03:24] <Yagisan> MrMazda: I can point to at least one of those tools that doesn't work on my X less box
[03:24] <ogra> ... to apt
[03:24] <ogra> apt is a frontend to dpkg
[03:24] <ogra> adept is a copy of synaptic in kde
[03:25] <ogra> they are completely different things ...
[03:25] <MrMazda> you're making me try to learn to much - I'm a rpm user
[03:25] <spacey_ki> even working on weekends ogra ;/
[03:25] <MrMazda> Debian gives me fits
[03:25] <ogra> spacey_ki, not really ...
[03:25] <Yagisan> my preferred front end is aptitude
[03:25] <lucasvo> I prefer apt
[03:25] <MrMazda> screwed up tty video on every one of them
[03:25] <spacey_ki> ogra, don't forget to relax a bit :P
[03:26] <ogra> heh, i'll try
[03:26] <ogra> i'm on my way out anyway, GF is ill and i have to pick up food for the animals ... else they'll starve over the weekend
[03:26] <lucasvo> ogra is in a hurry for dapper :D
[03:26] <ogra> nah, no hurry at all :)
[03:27] <Yagisan> ogra: Hope GF gets better soon.
[03:27] <ogra> we are fine in our timeframe ...
[03:27] <ogra> Yagisan, i'll tell her ...
[03:28] <ogra> she already was better (after 4 weeks of sleepless nights with crying from pain)
[03:28] <ogra> but somehow it started over tonight
[03:28] <MrMazda> seems like Bug 7878 resurfaced
[03:28] <Yagisan> ?? what did she catch ?
[03:28] <spacey_ki> damn, thats quite serious
[03:28] <ogra> we have no idea
[03:29] <ogra> seems it hurts heavily below her right eye ....
[03:29] <spacey_ki> went to hospital i assume?
[03:29] <ogra> the doc has no idea what that could be ...
[03:29] <Yagisan> 2nd opinion ?
[03:29] <ogra> now she got pulled out a tooth last week, but that seem not to have been the cause of pain ...
[03:30] <spacey_ki> time for a xray
[03:30] <ogra> i'll arrange a computer tomography next week for here, to get some more insight ...
[03:30] <ogra> no hospital yet ... she first wants to try out all options without that
[03:31] <spacey_ki> what is computer tomography?
[03:32] <Yagisan> spacey_ki: most likely cat scan
[03:32] <Yagisan> I had one done for myself - big white tube
[03:32] <Yagisan> strong magnets
[03:32] <ogra> yeah ...
[03:32] <ogra> babalfish doesnt help :/
[03:32] <spacey_ki> not dangerious when you have some metal in your teeth?
[03:33] <ogra> nope
[03:33] <Yagisan> have some guy say "lie still" while they scan your head
[03:33] <spacey_ki> not suddenly teethless
[03:33] <spacey_ki> :)
[03:33] <ogra> and afterwards you have a 3D model of your head ...
[03:33] <Yagisan> and then they go, we *still* don't know whats wrong
[03:33] <lucasvo> that's cool, I once had to do it with my arm
[03:33] <ogra> its a kind of xray in slices they do ... and afterwards they build a 3D model of it
[03:34] <Yagisan> oh wait - that may only be for me
[03:34] <ogra> Yagisan, i suspect it might be the same for us :/
[03:34] <lucasvo> Yagisan: it is quite common, they still don't know what's wrong with my arm
[03:34] <ogra> the dentist already did a normal xray... nothing suspisious ...
[03:34] <lucasvo> I still can't do any push-ups :(
[03:35] <Yagisan> at least I got a picture of my head
[03:35] <lucasvo> lol
[03:35] <Yagisan> lucasvo: RSI ??
[03:35] <lucasvo> Yagisan: rsi?
[03:35] <ogra> yes, sounds like
[03:35] <ogra> to much comuter work :)
[03:35] <Yagisan> Repetitive Strain Injury
[03:35] <ogra> *computer
[03:35] <ogra> take more rests
[03:35] <Yagisan> or ah something else ;)
[03:36] <lucasvo> Yagisan: I don't know, I had a broken arm a 2 years ago
[03:36] <lucasvo> Yagisan: broken forever, I can't push anything more than 20kg
[03:36] <spacey_ki> good thing you do computer work :P
[03:37] <spacey_ki> only need to press keys
[03:37] <lucasvo> spacey_ki: I am doing headwork in school atm
[03:37] <spacey_ki> headwork?
[03:37] <Yagisan> ouch, I've shredded all the ligaments on my knee before. Couldn't move my lower leg
[03:37] <lucasvo> brainwork
[03:37] <spacey_ki> right
[03:37] <spacey_ki> what work does your brain do
[03:38] <Yagisan> dragged myself 7 kilometers to a hospital on one leg, just to get it put in plaster
[03:38] <lucasvo> spacey_ki: math, biology, french, german, english, italian, chemistry, physics
[03:38] <lucasvo> and arts and craft
[03:38] <spacey_ki> your on highschool?
[03:38] <lucasvo> spacey_ki: yes
[03:38] <spacey_ki> aha
[03:39] <spacey_ki> what country? germany?
[03:39] <lucasvo> spacey_ki: switzerland
[03:39] <spacey_ki> ah
[03:39] <spacey_ki> that figures
[03:39] <lucasvo> spacey_ki: why?
[03:39] <spacey_ki> regarding the languages
[03:39] <lucasvo> aha
[03:39] <spacey_ki>  french, german, english, italian
[03:39] <spacey_ki> :)
[03:39] <spacey_ki> you need them all there
[03:39] <spacey_ki> :)
[03:40] <lucasvo> not really, everybody speaks english
[03:41] <lucasvo> http://www.google.ch/ < is available even in our fourth "official" language...
[03:41] <lucasvo> rumantsch
[03:41] <lucasvo> web=rait
[03:41] <lucasvo> I think it is net = rait
[03:44] <lucasvo> Yagisan: where do you live?
[03:44] <spacey_ki> where are you from then Yagisan 
[03:44] <Yagisan> Sydney
[03:45] <Yagisan> I'm sure you seen parts of the riots on tv
[03:45] <lucasvo> :D
[03:45] <lucasvo> Yagisan: I don't have/want tv
[03:45] <lucasvo> but I read in the newspapers about it
[03:46] <Yagisan> lucasvo: that's good. The only thing I use my tv for is for playing my iron chef dvds 
[03:46] <lucasvo> iron chef?
[03:46] <lucasvo> Yagisan: what time is it now in sydney?
[03:46] <Yagisan> lucasvo: I bet the papers are only saying white people are attacking lebanese people
[03:46] <lucasvo> :D
[03:46] <spacey_ki> Yagisan, nope
[03:46] <Yagisan> almost 2am
[03:47] <spacey_ki> i never watch tv
[03:47] <spacey_ki> evil box ;p
[03:47] <lucasvo> exactly
[03:48] <Yagisan> iron chef is the best show I have ever seen on TV. It's from Japan. The americans made a crap copy called, Iron Chef America
[03:48] <Yagisan> here we are,  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Chef
[03:49] <spacey_ki> i've seen futurama episode about that :)
[03:49] <Yagisan> you haven't seen Iron Chef ??
[03:49] <Yagisan> I've got 18GB of it so far ...
[03:49] <Yagisan> damm 20GB download quota
[03:53] <Yagisan> spacey_ki: that's the 30% iron chef episode right ?
[03:53] <spacey_ki> don't remember:)
[03:53] <spacey_ki> at least it was funny :)
[03:53] <spacey_ki> Yagisan, never seen the orginal show
[03:54] <Yagisan> spacey_ki: where are you ?
[03:54] <MrMazda> can't run dpkg-reconfigure xserver-xorg because the tty display is too corrupted - how do I screencap the corruption?
[03:54] <spacey_ki> Yagisan, netherlands
[03:54] <spacey_ki> its not on tv here :)
[03:55] <spacey_ki> i'm curious though, can you send me an episode?:D
[03:55] <MrMazda> lucasvo: are you really /away ?
[03:56] <Yagisan> MrMazda: how did you corrupt the tty display ?
[03:56] <MrMazda> using keypad keys
[03:56] <MrMazda> always does that
[03:57] <MrMazda> how do I screencap the corruption?
[03:57] <Yagisan> have you tried typing `clear` no quotes in a console ? (yes it is a dumb question)
[03:57] <Yagisan> Is x working at all ?
[03:57] <spacey_ki> restart
[03:57] <spacey_ki> instead of clear helps
[03:58] <MrMazda> X works - I'm doing what lucasvo said to report the initial configure bug
[03:58] <MrMazda> restart what?
[03:58] <spacey_ki> type it in
[03:58] <spacey_ki> the terminal
[03:58] <Yagisan> MrMazda: gimp has a screen capture function
[03:58] <MrMazda> gimp is X
[03:59] <MrMazda> this is tty running dpkg-reconfigure
[03:59] <MrMazda> can't type in clear or restart
[03:59] <spacey_ki> just type restart and press enter
[03:59] <spacey_ki> works for me
[03:59] <spacey_ki> :)
[03:59] <spacey_ki> even if you can't see it
[04:00] <Yagisan> MrMazda: please clarify - is this a virtual console, or x-term ?
[04:01] <jelkner> ogra: do you have time for a question?
[04:01] <MrMazda> tty[1-6] 
[04:01] <ogra> jelkner, sure 
[04:01] <jelkner> i installed sabayon
[04:01] <ogra> btw, did you already test the flight2 CD ?
[04:01] <jelkner> no
[04:01] <MrMazda> restart worked, but then on first need for a cursor key it corrupts again spacey
[04:01] <jelkner> i can do that monday
[04:02] <ogra> great 
[04:02] <jelkner> how do you want me to test it?
[04:02] <MrMazda> can't get anywhere
[04:02] <ogra> i'm lagging with the announcement anyway 
[04:02] <jelkner> just do an install and see if it works?
[04:02] <ogra> yup
[04:02] <jelkner> ok, i'll burn it tomorrow and install on monday
[04:02] <ogra> there are some known issues, i'll point out in the announcement 
[04:02] <jelkner> i have two test servers to play with
[04:02] <spacey_ki> MrMazda, try in an X terminal?
[04:02] <ogra> great :)
[04:02] <jelkner> any i need to know before testing?
[04:03] <ogra> dont use different languages ... 
[04:03] <jelkner> ok
[04:03] <jelkner> anything else?
[04:03] <MrMazda> spacey_ki: lucasvo said run in tty, so I exited the X session to run on tty
[04:03] <ogra> trhere is something wrong with the ubuntu locales onb install, that makes it break if you dont use en_**
[04:03] <spacey_ki> you can also run it in an X terminal
[04:03] <MrMazda> anyway, if tty cannot be fixed I give up on ubuntu
[04:03] <spacey_ki> and restart X after that
[04:03] <jelkner> ok, i won't do anything with languages
[04:04] <ogra> the dhcpd needs a new option ... (next-server)
[04:04] <ogra> else the clients wont boot :/
[04:04] <jelkner> but speaking of languages, on our breezy boxes we are having great fun with them
[04:04] <MrMazda> this corruption has been a plague even on the failed edubuntu installs
[04:04] <MrMazda> ttys just HAVE to work
[04:04] <jelkner> i'm sitting here at a community center where all the folks speak spanish
[04:04] <ogra> but i think i'll revert that change to dhcpd for ubuntu ... its evil to introduce breaking changes with minor version upgrades imho
[04:04] <jelkner> i learned how to use the spanish keyboard
[04:05] <MrMazda> how do I screencap the corruption on a tty?
[04:05] <jelkner> and we are all on ubuntu-es chatting
[04:05] <Yagisan> MrMazda: I have no idea why your tty isn't working.  It works fine on all my headless boxes.
[04:05] <jelkner> cool!
[04:05] <ogra> jelkner, we had this topinc several times...
[04:05] <jelkner> which topic?
[04:05] <MrMazda> Yagisan: prolly ATI BS
[04:05] <ogra> .es lang stuff
[04:05] <MrMazda> only ATI box I have
[04:05] <ogra> i think you asked about 10 times about it now
[04:05] <Yagisan> MrMazda: could you try using the vesa framebuffer instead
[04:05] <jelkner> my apologies
[04:05] <ogra> :)
[04:05] <jelkner> i missed it each time ;-)
[04:06] <jelkner> but i got it now
[04:06] <MrMazda> Yagisan: kernel line is VGA=290 because VGA=788 failed
[04:06] <ogra> so tell me about sabayon 
[04:06] <jelkner> btw. the german teacher in the room before me wants to use the ubuntu lab with her students
[04:06] <ogra> nice :)
[04:06] <Yagisan> MrMazda: well, that is a good indication of where the problem lies
[04:06] <jelkner> i'm planning on asking you if you know some good resources for them?
[04:06] <jelkner> ok, back to sabayon
[04:07] <MrMazda> Yagisan: same problem in all Debians, no problem in RPMs
[04:07] <jelkner> you said you can't use if from the clients
[04:07] <ogra> yes
[04:07] <jelkner> can i use if from the server to lock down client users?
[04:07] <MrMazda> Debian framebuffer is whacko
[04:07] <ogra> it opens a xnest window, xnest doesnt work through ssh tunnels 
[04:07] <jelkner> ok, so we should wait on that
[04:07] <jelkner> yes?
[04:07] <ogra> but youcan make profiles with it directly on the server desktop
[04:07] <spacey_ki> only when you create the policy you need to do it on the server itself
[04:08] <spacey_ki> but if you activite it it works for everything
[04:08] <jelkner> but what happens on the client when the user tries to change things
[04:08] <spacey_ki> only the admin thingy needs to be on local box
[04:08] <ogra> i'm not sure that solveable at all, thats why i said i'm not sure we can include it at ubz
[04:08] <jelkner> folks are breaking their desktops
[04:08] <jelkner> accidentally deleting panels and stuff
[04:08] <ogra> not if you lock down these options
[04:09] <spacey_ki> jelkner, did you try using sabayon yet?
[04:09] <jelkner> no, i just installed it
[04:09] <jelkner> i'm just asking a few high level questions to save time
[04:09] <jelkner> like, "how should i try it?"
[04:09] <spacey_ki> i think you should give it a try first :p
[04:09] <ogra> yes, play with it ...
[04:10] <jelkner> ok, /me stops asking silly questions and goes off to try it...
[04:10] <spacey_ki> jelkner, if you can't figure it out after trying just ask back. i still have to fix it up myself. good opportunity
[04:10] <jelkner> ok
[04:10] <spacey_ki> anyway i'm out for shopping now before everything closes
[04:10] <spacey_ki> cya
[04:10] <ogra> i'm not even sure if we need the xnest stuff... its only for arranging the default desktop setup... the locking down feature doesnt use xnest
[04:11] <jelkner> cool
[04:11] <jelkner> first question: how to launch it?
[04:11] <jelkner> command line only?
[04:11] <spacey_ki> its in the menu :p
[04:11] <ogra> its in your system menu
[04:11] <jelkner> doesn't seem to be in the menu anywhere?
[04:11] <ogra> "User Profile Editor"
[04:11] <jelkner> oh, i see
[04:12] <ogra> i'm still not sure what this icon should represent :)
[04:12] <ogra> its just a golden swirl
[04:13] <Yagisan> MrMazda: a quick google doesn't anything that can grab a VGA console.  Try sudo cat /dev/vcs > screendump.txt
[04:14] <jelkner> oops, i click on "Edit" and get "Xsession: unable to launch "gnome" X session --- "gnome" not found; falling back to default session."
[04:14] <Yagisan> MrMazda: You will need to put your password in, but it should grab the screen for you
[04:15] <jelkner> never mind
[04:15] <jelkner> clicking ok and it started anyway
[04:15] <ogra> oh, in dapper it silently crashes ...
[04:16] <ogra> oh, yes, xnest is broken :)
[04:20] <lucasvo> MrMazda: no not really
[04:22] <ogra> luckily we have a totally different kernel to debian :)
[04:22] <ogra> including framebuffer functionallity
[04:22] <ogra> s/including/especially with the/
[04:22] <lucasvo> ogra: how about a powerbutton in ldm?
[04:22] <ogra> lucasvo, sure :)
[04:23] <ogra> but i have more important tasks ..
[04:23] <lucasvo> ogra: is it working from bzr?
[04:23] <ogra> ??
[04:23] <ogra> a powerbutton from bzr ? 
[04:23] <lucasvo> ogra: no, a working powerbutton in ldm from bzr source
[04:23] <ogra> sure ...
[04:24] <lucasvo> ogra: how can I install it?
[04:24] <ogra> oh, you mean if its added in my bzr repo ? nope
[04:24] <lucasvo> ah
[04:24] <lucasvo> ogra: so there isn't any written code for now?
[04:24] <jelkner> ogra: no one can log in to the edubuntu server
[04:25] <ogra> as i said, i have otherpriorities, ldm powerbutton is only on my nice to have list
[04:25] <lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
[04:25] <ogra> jelkner, look if the sshkeys are right
[04:25] <lucasvo> ogra: what are other priorities?
[04:25] <ogra> (or existing at all)
[04:25] <jelkner> i tried restarting dhcp, which had died, but it still isn't working
[04:25] <ogra> lucasvo, my specs ...
[04:25] <lucasvo> ogra: launchpad?
[04:26] <ogra> jelkner, dhcpd has nothing to do with it.... as long as the clients boot, tftp, dhcp and nfs are fine
[04:26] <ogra> no need to look there
[04:27] <MrMazda> how do I eradicate graphical boot?
[04:27] <jelkner> which log file should i look in?
[04:27] <ogra> jelkner, just look for the sshkeys ...
[04:27] <ogra> no logfile needed
[04:27] <jelkner> where?
[04:28] <ogra> where you looked the last times you had this ...
[04:28] <ogra> wait
[04:28] <lucasvo> I like the obsolete: EdubuntuUserManagement  ( Oliver Grawert)
[04:28] <ogra> /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
[04:28] <jelkner> ok i need to take notes this time ;-)
[04:28] <ogra> jelkner, ^^^ look if the current server ip shows up there
[04:29] <ogra> if not, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
[04:29] <ogra> then try to log in again
[04:30] <ogra> lucasvo, yes, thats obsoleted by the network user management spec that goes into ubuntu anyway (but dapper+1 for the server side)
[04:32] <lucasvo> I will probably buy a new server for my ltsp, I am thinking off 2x Opteron Dual Core, will there be any problems with ltsp?
[04:32] <lucasvo> Is it working with current dapper?
[04:32] <ogra> not with dapper
[04:32] <ogra> yup
[04:32] <lucasvo> so the multiarch support is fully included by now?
[04:33] <ogra> its not working with breezy ... you need the multiarch patch from Yagisan that already is included in dapper
[04:33] <ogra> yup
[04:33] <lucasvo> and what about flash etc. ?
[04:33] <lucasvo> binary drivers? for e.g. nvidia?
[04:33] <ogra> thats nothing i can solve, ask macromedia :)
[04:33] <lucasvo> but is it possible to run firefox under 32bit?
[04:34] <lucasvo> how about multicore + ubuntu is it working well?
[04:34] <lucasvo> or is it overpowered for ubuntu?
[04:35] <ogra> not at all
[04:35] <ogra> multicore and smp are fine ...
[04:35] <ogra> for 32bit apps you'll need to build a chroot etc ... 
[04:36] <lucasvo> waaa
[04:36] <ogra> there are debian docs for that ...
[04:36] <lucasvo> ok, I think I can live without flash
[04:36] <ogra> its really only flash thats missing...
[04:36] <lucasvo> what else is closed source in ubuntu?
[04:36] <lucasvo> ah, ok
[04:36] <ogra> java for amd64 is fine, as well as all other stuff
[04:36] <ogra> nvidia/ati ...
[04:37] <ogra> but we'll wipe all binary drivers for the thin clients anyway
[04:37] <lucasvo> I don't have a 64bit thinclient :D
[04:37] <ogra> heh
[04:37] <MrMazda> [4294880.753000]  atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xaa on isa0060/serio0).
[04:37] <lucasvo> or what do you mean?
[04:37] <lucasvo> MrMazda: that happens when you press shift+page up for example
[04:38] <MrMazda> Yagisan: that's one line of corruption I typed in
[04:38] <ogra> dropping of the binary drivers has nothing to do with 64bit
[04:38] <lucasvo> ogra: where will the binarydrivers be dropped?
[04:38] <jelkner> ogra: no one can log in now
[04:38] <lucasvo> ogra: on the server or in the chroot?
[04:38] <ogra> thats a keycode your kernel doesnt know about ... multimedia keys for example
[04:38] <jelkner> i tried sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys
[04:38] <MrMazda> lucasvo: draws a different screen
[04:38] <ogra> jelkner, did you look in the file 
[04:38] <MrMazda> still messed up
[04:39] <MrMazda> even on restart with vga=normal
[04:39] <ogra> lucasvo, in the chroot
[04:39] <lucasvo> ogra: aha, ok
[04:39] <jelkner> yes, but what am i looking for?
 /opt/ltsp/i386/etc/ssh/ssh_known_hosts
 ok i need to take notes this time ;-)
 jelkner, ^^^ look if the current server ip shows up there
 if not, run: sudo ltsp-update-sshkeys 
[04:40] <jelkner> i did
[04:40] <jelkner> and i also restarted the client
[04:40] <ogra> was anything in there ?
[04:40] <jelkner> in the file?
[04:40] <jelkner> a lot is there
[04:40] <jelkner> but i don't know what specifically i'm looking for
[04:40] <ogra>  <ogra> jelkner, ^^^ look if the current server ip shows up there
[04:40] <jelkner> ahh
[04:41] <agente87> hi everyon
[04:41] <MrMazda> doesn't matter what my vga= line has on it, always cursor keys flood the ttys with those error messages
[04:41] <jelkner> yes, it shows up several times
[04:41] <jelkner> the server has two ips
[04:41] <jelkner> they both show up
[04:41] <jelkner> and the hostname edubuntu as well
[04:41] <ogra> jelkner, several times is wrong 
[04:42] <ogra> empty the file, run the update sshkeys command again...
[04:42] <jelkner> ok
[04:42] <ogra> it should show up one time as ip and one time with name
[04:42] <ogra> how often did you run the update command already  ?
[04:43] <lucasvo> hi agente87 !
[04:43] <agente87> hi lucas
[04:44] <agente87> how do you do?
[04:44] <lucasvo> well, and you?
[04:44] <lucasvo> agente87: how about your edubuntu installation?
[04:44] <lucasvo> ogra: could one just mount /home/ over nfs? 
[04:45] <ogra> sure
[04:45] <lucasvo> agente87: maybe you could do this
[04:45] <agente87> i have made a shared folder
[04:45] <ogra> just add it in the servers fstab .... indeed you need a nfs server from where you mount it
[04:45] <lucasvo> agente87: I would suggest you install edubuntu-desktop on every client and mount /home/ over nfs
[04:45] <ogra> err ? 
[04:46] <lucasvo> agente87: you mean on winXP?
[04:46] <ogra> why would you install anything on the client ? 
[04:46] <agente87> nop, on edubuntu
[04:46] <lucasvo> agente87: ah, over the gui?
[04:46] <agente87> the gui?
[04:47] <lucasvo> ogra: because they have too powerful clients and too weak server
[04:47] <lucasvo> power of server = power of client
[04:47] <jelkner> ok, there are 6 entries now
[04:47] <ogra> so you dont want ltsp, but netbooting clients ...
[04:47] <jelkner> 2 each for edubuntu, 192.168.0.140, and 192.168.1.254
[04:47] <lucasvo> ogra: this would be good as well
[04:47] <jelkner> one ssh-rsa and one ssh-dss
[04:47] <ogra> jelkner, thats fine then 
[04:48] <ogra> jelkner, make sure the ssh server is running any try to log in
[04:48] <lucasvo> ogra: did you get my query? 
[04:48] <ogra> nope
[04:48] <agente87> in my school, teachers don't want edubuntu
[04:48] <lucasvo> ogra: hm, ok
[04:48] <lucasvo> ogra: so I didn't register my nick
[04:48] <ogra> are your registered ? 
[04:48] <lucasvo> ogra: no
[04:48] <ogra> ah
[04:48] <ogra> do it then
[04:49] <ogra> agente87, why ? 
[04:49] <lucasvo> ogra: what's the name of the register bot?
[04:50] <ogra> try /msg nickserv help
[04:50] <agente87> i'm trying to make them prove edubuntu
[04:50] <agente87> but they say they don't have time, it's new, you know
[04:50] <ogra> but why dont they want it ? 
[04:50] <ogra> ah
[04:50] <ogra> :) fear the new :)
[04:51] <agente87> yes;-D
[04:51] <lucasvo> I don't know my nick pw anymore
[04:51] <agente87> why must i use a shared /home/ folder?
[04:51] <jelkner> ogra: we are in a lab with 7 terminals (one directly on the server)
[04:52] <jelkner> 3 users are logged in
[04:52] <jelkner> and have been all morning
[04:52] <jelkner> no new users can log in on any of the remaining workstations
[04:52] <jelkner> i've tried restarting ssh
[04:52] <lucasvo> ogra: do you know how I can reset my pw?
[04:52] <ogra> hmmm, no idea what that is ...
[04:52] <ogra> lucasvo, nope
[04:53] <lucasvo> crap
[04:53] <agente87> nop
[04:53] <ogra> jelkner, thats an info you should have given before you said nobody can log in
[04:54] <agente87> lucasvo: why should i use a shared /home folder?
[04:54] <lucasvo> ah now it works
[04:54] <lucasvo> agente87: that all the users have their own homedir on every client
[04:54] <lucasvo> workstation
[04:55] <jelkner> ogra: ok
[04:56] <agente87> ok, like active desktop in windows
[04:56] <jelkner> so, now that i have (late, i understand), what next?
[04:56] <ogra> no idea ...
[04:57] <lucasvo> ogra: could one use netboot with pxe?
[04:57] <ogra> sure
[04:57] <ogra> thats what ltsp does :)
[04:58] <agente87> i'm trying to get some Pentiums 100 to make a classroom with ltsp
[04:58] <agente87> it's too complicated? i have just begin with linux
[04:58] <agente87> it's too complicated? i have just begun with linux
[04:59] <ogra> nope, not complicated at all 
[04:59] <lucasvo> agente87: the only problem will be the weak server
[05:00] <jelkner> ogra: but it looks like we've hit some edubuntu bugs
[05:00] <jelkner> shouldn't we investigate?
[05:00] <jelkner> i could try rebooting the server
[05:01] <agente87> i have spoken with my director and he will buy some ram
[05:01] <jelkner> and let you know what happens
[05:01] <MrMazda> lucasvo: I'm not gonna file a bug on the HorizSync/VertRefresh because that original xorg.conf works OK since I've updated everything
[05:01] <lucasvo> MrMazda: ok
[05:01] <MrMazda> too many such bugs already, and most dupes or fixed
[05:01] <lucasvo> MrMazda: mine hasn't been fixed so far
[05:02] <lucasvo> MrMazda: I had exactly the same probelm
[05:02] <MrMazda> still the console corruption problem is huge
[05:02] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you mean the unknown key messages?
[05:02] <MrMazda> doesn't matter which vga= I use, always unknown key messages
[05:02] <MrMazda> tty corruption == unknown key messages
[05:03] <lucasvo> MrMazda: maybe it is a wrong keyboard driver?
[05:03] <MrMazda> I tried asking in #kubuntu, but that place is all noise
[05:03] <lucasvo> exactly
[05:03] <lucasvo> and ubuntu as well
[05:04] <ogra> MrMazda, note that the keycode errors are totally unrelated to the vga= setting 
[05:04] <MrMazda> obviously
[05:04] <ogra> they are two different things in the kernel ...
[05:04] <MrMazda> how do I eradicate the graphical boot?
[05:05] <ogra> you mean usplash ? 
[05:05] <MrMazda> whatever it is that keeps the text messages away
[05:05] <ogra> just remove the splash keywoprd from the kernel line 
[05:06] <MrMazda> with other kernels/other distros, splash=0 or nosplash was the method, but they don't work here :-p
[05:06] <jsgotangco> hey
[05:07] <lucasvo> .w 12
[05:07] <lucasvo> sorry
[05:07] <jsgotangco> ogra, do you have any knowledge on limitations of distribution about our pressed cds?
[05:07] <ogra> we dont even have agreement that we'll get pressed CDs yet
[05:08] <jsgotangco> ogra, sorry i was supposed to say ubuntu cds in general
[05:08] <jsgotangco> ogra, what i mean is for situations like this http://www.ebay.ph/viItem?ItemId=5841560525
[05:09] <ogra> hmm, nope, i'm not working with the shipit team ... ask marilize, kiko or silbs if you can catch them on irc
[05:09] <jsgotangco> yep
[05:09] <ogra> heh
[05:09] <ogra> how much are PHP 250 ?
[05:09] <ogra> in euro or $ ?
[05:10] <jsgotangco> $1USD = P50
[05:10] <ogra> so its $5 ? 
[05:10] <jsgotangco> roughly
[05:10] <ogra> i dont think anybody really cares 
[05:11] <jsgotangco> because i wouldn't like to see a situation where people here ask for CDs and sell for something like that
[05:11] <jsgotangco> when they can just ask me for one
[05:11] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:11] <jsgotangco> we
[05:11] <jsgotangco> we'll see
[05:11] <jsgotangco> =)
[05:11] <ogra> indeed, if you have the sparetime, monitor the auction and offer them to do so ...
[05:12] <ogra> ;)
[05:12] <ogra> or point them to shipit 
[05:12] <lucasvo> *lol*
[05:12] <lucasvo> courtesy of OSdir.com
[05:12] <MrMazda> ogra: thx :)
[05:12] <ogra> :)
[05:13] <ogra> i would have told you earlier, but didnt know waht your problem was :)
[05:13] <MrMazda> nfs mount takes WAY to long :(
[05:13] <ogra> yup, agreed
[05:13] <ogra> will be fixed in dapper
[05:14] <ogra> funnily it takes 3times as long at first boot... the second boot works like a charm ...
[05:14] <ogra> i havent found the root of the prob yet ...
[05:15] <MrMazda> it's really bad in single, since there is no network in single
[05:15] <jelkner> ogra: oliver, i don't know if sabayon had anything to do with it, but i removed sabayon, we rebooted the server, and we can log in again
[05:15] <MrMazda> takes forever to time out
[05:15] <MrMazda> I forgot noauto in FSTAB
[05:15] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you mean ntp date?
[05:15] <lucasvo> MrMazda: ah nfs
[05:15] <ogra> jelkner, since you did it both at th same time i cant tell  you either
[05:15] <MrMazda> mount -t nfs
[05:16] <jsgotangco> hey jelkner 
[05:16] <MrMazda> portmap: server localhost not responding
[05:16] <jelkner> ogra: i understand, not good testing proceedure, but we are in a training session and need things to work
[05:16] <ogra> yup
[05:16] <MrMazda> RPC: failed to contact portmap
[05:16] <jelkner> i'll test more in another environment later
[05:16] <lucasvo> MrMazda: /etc/init.d/portmap start
[05:17] <ogra> + sudo  ;)
[05:17] <lucasvo> ogra: sudo su && ...
[05:17] <ogra> bah
[05:17] <MrMazda>  bash: /etc/init.d/portmap: No such file or directory
[05:17] <ogra> ugh 
[05:18] <ogra> how did you install your system ? 
[05:18] <MrMazda> "workstation" from CD boot
[05:18] <MrMazda> IIRC
[05:18] <lucasvo> MrMazda: edubuntu? kubuntu?
[05:18] <MrMazda> mebbe that was edubutu
[05:18] <ogra> ah, ok, that doesnt install any server parts
[05:18] <MrMazda> kubuntu
[05:19] <ogra> kubuntu has no workstation install
[05:19] <MrMazda> kubuntu is the problem ATM
[05:19] <ogra> that unique in edubuntu
[05:19] <MrMazda> well than I didn't
[05:19] <lucasvo> MrMazda: exactly
[05:19] <MrMazda> well then I didn't
[05:19] <MrMazda> ;-)
[05:19] <ogra> since edubuntu defaults to a server install, we included this option
[05:19] <MrMazda> the nfs mounts finally finished
[05:19] <ogra> no other ubuntu has it
[05:20] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you need portmap
[05:20] <ogra> but you need portmap installed on a nfs server ...
[05:20] <MrMazda> nfs mount means nfs client
[05:20] <ogra> there you dont need anything ...
[05:21] <MrMazda> so why the delay mounting?
[05:21] <ogra> i thought you talk about ltsp ...
[05:22] <ogra> it doesnt happen in normal ubuntu nfs mounts
[05:24] <ogra> what kind of server do you run ? 
[05:24] <a-865> just this Mandriva 2006 box
[05:24] <ogra> might be a misconfiguration on the server ...
[05:24] <MrMazda> nah, works fine for everything else
[05:24] <lucasvo> MrMazda: nfs on another client?
[05:25] <lucasvo> MrMazda: so you installed mandriva on you daughters pc?
[05:25] <ogra> mounting nfs shares between 2 ubuntu boxes takes milliseconds here 
[05:26] <ogra> up to 1-2 seconds over 5Mbit wlan ...
[05:27] <lucasvo> :(
[05:27] <lucasvo> I have my wlan
[05:27] <lucasvo> *hate
[05:27] <lucasvo> it is stupid
[05:27] <lucasvo> slow
[05:27] <ogra> wokrs fine here ...
[05:27] <ogra> yes, thats true ... 
[05:27] <lucasvo> ogra: I have it over 3 storeys
[05:27] <ogra> but thats a HW limitation
[05:27] <lucasvo> exactly
[05:27] <lucasvo> and money
[05:28] <lucasvo> and law limitation
[05:28] <ogra> law ?
[05:28] <lucasvo> 100mW?
[05:28] <ogra> s/law/health/ ?
[05:28] <lucasvo> I mean limitation by law
[05:28] <lucasvo> no law
[05:28] <lucasvo> maybe law is because of health
[05:29] <ogra> i wouldnt want something with >100Mw on my lap ...
[05:29] <lucasvo> jup
[05:29] <ogra> and boil my guts ...
[05:29] <jsgotangco> even your nuts
[05:29] <ogra> heh
[05:29] <lucasvo> that's why I will soon have fibre
[05:30] <ogra> wireless fibre ? 
[05:30] <ogra> i.e. a lightbulb ? 
[05:30] <ogra> :)
[05:30] <lucasvo> ogra: ronja.twibright.com is exactly what you mean
[05:31] <lucasvo> ogra: but I will use ordinary fibre
[05:32] <ogra> ah, yes, i once worked with such a laser driven system...
[05:32] <ogra> but thats bad in snow etc ...
[05:32] <ogra> if you can put the link on the roof, i prefer a yagi anteanna and wlan ...
[05:32] <lucasvo> it is not laser only lled
[05:33] <a-865> noauto,ro,nosuid,soft,rsize=8192,wsize=8192 instead of defaults,noauto didn't help ogra 
[05:33] <ogra> even worse in bad waehter
[05:33] <ogra> which kernel does mandriva use ? 
[05:33] <Yagisan> did someone say yagi ?
[05:34] <ogra> there were issues in older 2.6 versions ... try setting the framesizes to 1048
[05:34] <ogra> err
[05:34] <jsgotangco> antennae
[05:34] <ogra> 2048
[05:34] <jsgotangco> =)
[05:34] <lucasvo> ogra: I am a ronja developer...
[05:34] <a-865> 2.6.12 here
[05:35] <MrMazda> on all my other boxen 8192 works fine
[05:36] <MrMazda> portmap is missing from system services :-p
[05:36] <ogra> in mandriva ? 
[05:36] <ogra> thats odd
[05:36] <MrMazda> no, kubuntu
[05:36] <ogra> sure 
[05:38] <ogra> as long as you dont use it as a server, you wont have such evil stuff installed
[05:39] <MrMazda> either I install it, or some different distro
[05:39] <ogra> you dont need protmap on the client side
[05:40] <MrMazda> every linux in this building is a nfs server
[05:40] <MrMazda> samba sux
[05:40] <ogra> so install nfs-kernel-server and be happy 
[05:40] <ogra> it will install portmap alongside 
[05:41] <ogra> but nbote that ubuntu has a policy of no open ports by default for security reasons ... so server stuff has to be instaled manually in a default ubuntu 
[05:42] <MrMazda> now it wants the @#$#$ CD o_O
[05:42] <lucasvo> MrMazda: edit your /etc/apt/sources.list
[05:42] <ogra> sure
[05:42] <ogra> if you didnt run synaptic to add other sources
[05:42] <lucasvo> MrMazda: and add # to the first line
[05:42] <MrMazda> I added sources yesterday
[05:43] <ogra> with synaptic ? 
[05:43] <MrMazda> with adept
[05:43] <ogra> it comments the Cd entry if you add network sources
[05:43] <ogra> lol
[05:43] <ogra> adept
[05:43] <MrMazda> inept
[05:43] <ogra> the first packaging tool with bugzilla interface
[05:44] <ogra> the search functions look and feel like a bugzilla ....
[05:45] <ogra> the ksynaptic UI was far beyond ... but sucked in the backend ...
[05:45] <ogra> thats an area where kubuntu really needs improvement ...
[05:54] <ivan> i have Transmetta processor. can I make kernel?
[05:55] <ogra> on the server or the thin clients ? 
[05:57] <MrMazda> installing nfs0=-kernel-server got rid of the problem
[05:57] <MrMazda> installing nfs-kernel-server got rid of the problem ogra 
[05:59] <MrMazda> wierd, system services says portmap starts at boot but isn't running :-p
[06:00] <MrMazda> same for nfs-kernel-server and nfs-common o_O
[06:01] <lucasvo> ogra: how many clients can one run over 10mbit?
[06:02] <ogra> MrMazda, is that updated from hoary ? 
[06:02] <MrMazda> no, CD install last night
[06:02] <a-865> not running, but mounted here :-p
[06:02] <ogra> lucasvo, there are numbers at ltsp.org anywhere
[06:04] <ogra> nfs-kernel-server only starts with proper /etc/exports ...
[06:05] <MrMazda> system services applet seems totally bogus
[06:05] <ogra> works fine here 
[06:05] <MrMazda> won't let me disable pcmcia
[06:05] <MrMazda> or anything else
[06:05] <MrMazda> or tell me stuff that's running is running
[06:05] <ogra> but you run it woth sudo, yes ? 
[06:05] <MrMazda> run what
[06:06] <ogra> services-admin
[06:06] <ogra> what else ? 
[06:06] <ogra> we dont have anything else in edubuntu for services
[06:06] <MrMazda> all I did was click system services
[06:06] <MrMazda> this is kubuntu
[06:06] <ogra> so please ask in -kubuntu about it
[06:06] <ogra> #kubuntu
[06:07] <MrMazda> that place is a hopeless pile of noise
[06:07] <ogra> we're edubuntu here
[06:07] <ogra> and dont use KDE apart from kdeedu
[06:07] <ogra> in #kubuntu ? 
[06:08] <jsgotangco> no a certain osdl thread...
[06:08] <jsgotangco> hehe
[06:08] <MrMazda> both #kubuntu and #unbuntu are noise jungles
[06:08] <ogra> heh
[06:08] <ogra> MrMazda, but this is exclusively for edubuntu here ... please treat it ike that 
[06:08] <MrMazda> I tried to install edubuntu yesterday 3 times but had to give up and do kubuntu
[06:08] <ogra> i'm fine with helping for edubuntu related stuff ... 
[06:09] <ogra> but my time is limited and i'm not willing to do Riddells work ... 
[06:09] <MrMazda> freespace on / is 473212 - Is that enuf for add the edu package?
[06:10] <ogra> edubuntu-desktop ? 
[06:10] <ogra> nope
[06:10] <ogra> as i said, you need a min amount of2.6Gb
[06:11] <MrMazda> until I stumble on a bigger disk for the kid's puter that's all there is
[06:11] <ogra> about 1-200MB less if yu dont have the server stuff installed
[06:11] <MrMazda> web site sys req doc should say how much is really required
[06:11] <MrMazda> I wouldn't have tried otherwise
[06:11] <ogra> it will
[06:12] <ogra> but its easy to compute from the ubuntu sizes ...
[06:12] <MrMazda> mebbe I can steal some space from doze for /home and use the whole #2 HD for edubuntu
[06:12] <ogra> ubuntu itself needs at least 2.2-2.4 GB 
[06:13] <ogra> you could resize the win partition
[06:13] <ogra> with gparted from the liveCD
[06:13] <lucasvo> MrMazda: delete /home and mount /home over nfs
[06:14] <MrMazda> the 7G doze partition is only 44% used
[06:14] <ogra> but your /home is not the problem, the apps are installed in /
[06:14] <lucasvo> MrMazda: so delete doze
[06:14] <MrMazda> too soon for that
[06:15] <MrMazda> lotta stuff there
[06:22] <MrMazda> ogra: I'm gonna just get rid of separate /home for now and give edubuntu the whole  HD
[06:22] <MrMazda> I can deal with separate /home some other time
[06:22] <lucasvo> MrMazda: and after you have been convinced by the power of edubuntu you can get rid of windoze
[06:23] <MrMazda> mebbe, but I still don't like Gnome. Kid prolly won't know difference though
[06:23] <lucasvo> MrMazda: yes
[06:23] <lucasvo> MrMazda: and you will learn to love gnome
[06:24] <MrMazda>  /hates lack of customizability & dumbing down
[06:24] <jsgotangco> gconf
[06:24] <lucasvo> another linux
[06:25] <MrMazda> fingers need a rest :-p
[06:28] <lucasvo> MrMazda: it is not dumbing down
[06:28] <lucasvo> MrMazda: it is just showing only the things one uses often
[06:28] <MrMazda> I've hated Gnome ugliness since I first saw it in 1998
[06:28] <lucasvo> MrMazda: do you think it is still ugly?
[06:29] <MrMazda> not as bad, but still less fun than KDE
[06:30] <lucasvo> kde is ugly bloatware
[06:30] <lucasvo> :D
[06:30] <ivan> I propose edubuntu for city school. Here we discuss only tech or I can to get help in educaction?
[06:30] <jsgotangco> hey no desktop flames here
[06:31] <lucasvo> ivan: both
[06:31] <jsgotangco> do it in ubuntu-offtopic
[06:31] <MrMazda> I think the kid's puter's PS is toast :-(
[06:31] <MrMazda> won't turn back on
[06:32] <lucasvo> PS?
[06:32] <MrMazda> power supply
[06:32] <MrMazda> did that several times yesterday too
[06:32] <lucasvo> aha
[06:33] <lucasvo> ivan: what's the schools infrastructure?
[06:35] <ivan> I propose edubuntu for 100 schools in my city
[06:37] <MrMazda> took it back upstairs and it started right up :-p
[06:37] <MrMazda> gonna try gparted then add the edu package
[06:37] <lucasvo> ivan: cool
[06:38] <lucasvo> ivan: that's awesome
[06:38] <lucasvo> ivan: where?
[06:39] <ivan> in Samara in Russia. 
[06:44] <MrMazda> lucasvo: FWIW, I use SeaMonkey rather than Firefox due to the missing features in FF
[06:44] <MrMazda> I like lotsa choices
[06:52] <ivan> Do use anybody  edubuntu in school for study math or phusic?
[06:53] <lucasvo_> ivan: there are some applications for math and physics
[06:54] <lucasvo_> kmplot for e.g.
[06:57] <ivan> Yes, i know. But I interesting how use in class? How method? May be it is strange questions for West, but in East we have to plan.
[06:57] <lucasvo_> ivan: we dont use pc in class for now...
[06:57] <lucasvo_> at our school
[07:00] <ivan> It's strange. On our TV and in the our newspaper we see many west school with many pc.
[07:02] <ivan> The Rissia goverment plan to use pc in the school
[07:03] <ivan> In 2006 more 10 000 pc will be install in the schools for education
[08:20] <MrMazda> @#$@#$ vfat checker in the installer
[08:20] <MrMazda> always finds errors scandisk can't
[08:23] <Lord_Athur> I use a lot the bash shell, can I change its default colours?
[08:23] <Lord_Athur> for example: when I put dir I'd like to see the folders of a colour(red) :P
[08:24] <Lord_Athur> is this possible?
[08:51] <MrMazda> o_O http://www.google.com/linux?num=30&hl=en&lr=lang_en&q=site%3Aedubuntu.com+ltsp&btnG=Search
[08:53] <MrMazda> where the heck is the definition of LTSP hiding?
[08:56] <MrMazda> why does the site map on edubuntu.com take you to the ubuntu.com site map?
[09:28] <mhz> MrMazda: hey there
[09:28] <mhz> so, KDE it is?
[09:28] <MrMazda> was
[09:29] <MrMazda> repartitioned, installing edubuntu again
[09:29] <MrMazda> qtparted wouldn't work
[09:29] <MrMazda> so started from scratch
[09:29] <mhz> oh, I never used it. I always used cfdisk (command line)
[09:30] <MrMazda> I wanted to delete /home and enlarge /
[09:30] <MrMazda> it wouldn't let me do anything with /
[09:38] <ogra> MrMazda, used a liveCd as i advised before ? 
[09:39] <MrMazda> livecd I had was Knoppix with qtparted
[09:39] <ogra> uuh, knoppix ...
[09:39] <ogra> isnt that fully 2.4 based ? 
[09:39] <MrMazda> 2.6.11 IIRC, v4.0
[09:39] <ogra> ah, then i wonder why it didnt work
[09:40] <MrMazda> new ver every 4 months or so
[09:40] <MrMazda> blocked the target partition, no idea why
[09:40] <ogra> gparted on the ubuntu livecd is proven to work with all ext* partitions as well as with most win based partitions
[09:40] <MrMazda> lotta stuff in Knoppix is like tht
[09:40] <Hemet_Ka> how can i open squashfs files? 
[09:41] <ogra> since its only a frontend to parted, i guess qtparted would work as well ..
[09:41] <mhz> MrMazda: did you try latest DamnSamllLinux?
[09:41] <MrMazda> no
[09:41] <ogra> Hemet_Ka, where in edubuntu do you use squashfs ? 
[09:41] <mhz> DSL is a very nice and small livecd that lets you do plenty
[09:42] <Hemet_Ka> ogra, I'm trying to open a file of a CD
[09:42] <mhz> MrMazda: however, i do not remember exactly about its partition system (again, cfdisk is simple and very efective)
[09:42] <ogra> Hemet_Ka, an iso ? 
[09:42] <ogra> you can just loop mount it
[09:43] <MrMazda> Corel, Caldera, RedHat, Knoppix, Fedora, SuSE, Mandrake, Mandriva, Xandros all I ever used b4 trying edubuntu/kubuntu yesterday
[09:43] <mhz> MrMazda: iirc DSL is about 50 MB only  and its gui is prety cool
[09:43] <MrMazda> AFAIK, cfdisk cannot resize
[09:43] <ogra> nope, it cannot
[09:43] <Hemet_Ka> ogra, it's a file put in a live cd
[09:43] <mhz> MrMazda: maybe right
[09:44] <mhz> MrMazda: but i doubt you have info already there, do you?
[09:44] <ogra> Hemet_Ka, no idea, and there is no edubuntu liveCD yet ...
[09:44] <MrMazda> I do all my partitioning with http://www.dfsee.com/ but it won't resize ext2
[09:44] <mhz> MrMazda: why you chose ext2 over 3?
[09:44] <MrMazda> same difference
[09:44] <ogra> yes, that an intresting choice
[09:44] <MrMazda> same difference in the partition tables
[09:45] <MrMazda> ogra: what?
[09:45] <ogra> choosing ext2 over 3
[09:45] <Hemet_Ka> ogra, I'm using edubuntu, but the live cd is of necromantux
[09:45] <ogra> ah
[09:45] <MrMazda> ext3 is ext3
[09:45] <MrMazda> ext3 is ext2
[09:45] <mhz> ohh, hehehe, I always endup doing mkfs.ext3 :)
[09:45] <ogra> Hemet_Ka, but still, there is no method i know 
[09:45] <Hemet_Ka> :S
[09:46] <Hemet_Ka> anyway.. thanks ogra and bye
[09:47] <ogra> he should probably use squashfs-tools :)
[09:47] <MrMazda>  /boot -> ext2; / -> ext3
[09:48] <MrMazda> same type 83 for both in the tables
[09:51] <ogra> wohoo ... i can read out the phonebook of my razr v3 :)
[09:51] <ogra> time to write a gui app :)
[09:57] <mhz> ogra: what's that?
[09:57] <ogra> my mobile ...
[09:57] <mhz> a mobile 
[09:57] <mhz> ok
[09:57] <ogra> a very recent motorola
[09:57] <mhz> nice
[09:58] <mhz> bluetooth?
[09:58] <ogra> and you can just access it via imple AT commands 
[09:58] <ogra> *simple
[09:58] <ogra> bluetooth too...
[09:58] <mhz> cool
[09:58] <ogra> but i was only playing with the usb cable for now
[10:00] <ogra> at+mpbf="Mauricio Hernandez" would just show me all data about you in my phone ...
[10:00] <mhz> nice!
[10:00] <ogra> including mailadress, address, and all known numbers
[10:01] <mhz> what if that also shows you the logs  about calls and calendars and to do?
[10:01] <mhz> all that regarding Mauricio Hernandez, of course
[10:01] <ogra> if i find the way pumping data *into* the phone, i can just send my evolution addressbook, including IM data (there is a jabber blient for this phone)
[10:01] <mhz> cool!
[10:02] <ogra> but anyway,just a pet project ... typically for never being finished ;)
[10:02] <mhz> I whish evolution could have 'threaded' calendars, tasks and addressbooks
[10:02] <mhz> ogra: hehehe inded
[10:04] <ogra> even more cool would be bluetooth acces, registering an alsa device and being able to use a headset attached to my lappie to use the phone ...
[10:08] <crimsun> need a bit more robust bt support in ALSA first
[10:11] <MrMazda> edub sure takes a long time to install
[10:21] <mhz> ogra, ogra, ogra... a real cool pet project could be to have a gui install for Moin :D
[10:28] <mhz> ogra: have you seen kjcole?
[10:34] <ogra> nope
[10:34] <ogra> he mailed me some bzr questions...
[10:34] <ogra> but we havent met
[10:35] <mhz> :(
[10:35] <mhz> me neither
[11:13] <MrMazda> mount: unknown filesystem type: nfs :(
[11:13] <MrMazda> ogra: u there? install done, and badly
[11:14] <ogra> but you read the docs as advised in the topic ? 
[11:14] <MrMazda> day or two ago
[11:14] <ogra> and follwed it ? 
[11:14] <MrMazda> can't remember it all after 7 installs
[11:14] <ogra> whats wrong with the install ? 
[11:14] <MrMazda> no X, corrupt consoles, no nfs
[11:15] <ogra> hmm, what did you do ? youre the first person reporting probs there 
[11:16] <MrMazda> kubuntu had no problem configuring usable X without any help
[11:16] <ogra> its the same configuration tool 
[11:16] <MrMazda> I dunno, that's what happened
[11:16] <ogra> apart from the desktop all ubuntus are 100% identical
[11:16] <MrMazda> without nfs can't get logs onto server to upload for anyone to look at
[11:17] <ogra> so only if you did soemthing that broke the install thic could happen
[11:17] <ogra> have you seen any errors ? 
[11:17] <MrMazda> EE stuff in /var/log/Xorg.0.log
[11:18] <ogra> nope, i mean during the install ...
[11:18] <MrMazda> I wasn't looking the whole 2 hours
[11:18] <ogra> it should run cleanly until it starts X in the end of the process
[11:18] <ogra> with a reboot in the middle
[11:19] <MrMazda> maybe it doesn't like me interrupting that in order to put my bootloader back the way it found it?
[11:19] <MrMazda> rude to not ask me where to put bootloader
[11:19] <ogra> oh, so you didnt use the default install 
[11:19] <MrMazda> tried workstation install
[11:20] <ogra> thats fine ...
[11:20] <MrMazda> isn't there some installation log somewhere?
[11:20] <ogra> then your install is 100% identical with kubuntu, except that gnoem is installed instead of kde, i wonder what happened there
[11:20] <ogra> sure, in 7var/lo7onstaller and /var/log/base-config
[11:21] <ogra> GRRRR
[11:21] <ogra> /var/log/istaller
[11:21] <ogra> *installer
[11:21] <ogra> sorry, its very late here
[11:21] <MrMazda> I got apt configured with universe and installed mc
[11:21] <ogra> post install ? 
[11:21] <MrMazda> yes
[11:21] <ogra> thats fine ...
[11:22] <MrMazda> but why no nfs?
[11:22] <ogra> but the broken install is what bothers me... also 2h are *very* unusual
[11:22] <MrMazda> I thought that was in kernel?
[11:22] <ogra> nope, its modular, but gets auoloaded 
[11:22] <ogra> by hotplug ...
[11:22] <ogra> as all modules are
[11:23] <ogra> which CD did you use ? 
[11:23] <MrMazda> en 5.10 edubuntu
[11:23] <ogra> the 5.10 release ? or a daily from the de release 
[11:23] <ogra> *dev
[11:24] <MrMazda> 13 Oct
[11:24] <ogra> hmm,  never saw anyone having probs with it ...
[11:24] <MrMazda> my birthday
[11:24] <ogra> oh, then you have on the same day as our CTO :)
[11:24] <MrMazda> 54 years later
[11:24] <ogra> sure ? 
[11:25] <ogra> so you are in the 70s ?
[11:25] <MrMazda> ?
[11:25] <MrMazda> 1951
[11:25] <ogra> ah
[11:25] <ogra> he is something like 27 or 28 years old ....
[11:25] <MrMazda> Kubunto Official Release 13 Oct, right?
[11:26] <ogra> so 54+27 would be quite old ;)
[11:26] <MrMazda> Edubuntu Official Release 13 Oct, right?
[11:26] <ogra> yup
[11:26] <ogra> same base, different desktop
[11:26] <MrMazda> I could install kubuntu again, than add the edu pkg
[11:26] <ogra> thats what i mean, its pretty unusual that you have probs there ...
[11:27] <MrMazda> all because qtparted wouldn't let me resize
[11:27] <ogra> since the X server/autodetection etc are 100% the same
[11:27] <MrMazda> I'll go try one more time
[11:27] <MrMazda> if that doesn't work, back to SuSE
[11:27] <ogra> hmm :/
[11:28] <lucasvo> SuSE was good, but isn't anymore
[11:28] <ogra> did anything change with the HW between kubuntu and this install ? 
[11:28] <MrMazda> works for me
[11:28] <lucasvo> I havn't tried opensuse
[11:28] <MrMazda> just moved the box downstairs then back upstairs
[11:28] <ogra> yes, but i would be sad to loose a user ..
[11:29] <MrMazda> leaving mc out of a base install is one strike to start with, and console non-working is strike 2; only save is tty works OK in runlevel 1
[11:29] <lucasvo> exactly
[11:29] <ogra> different monitor ?
[11:30] <MrMazda> nope
[11:30] <MrMazda> identical
[11:30] <MrMazda> debians always give me headaches rpms don't
[11:30] <ogra> hmm, so why did X detection work in kubuntu but not in edubuntu then :/
[11:30] <MrMazda> had Xandros mostly working
[11:31] <MrMazda> Xandros was mostly nice, but it too has broken ttys
[11:31] <ogra> i never saw xandros ...
[11:31] <MrMazda> upstairs I used a different USB mouse
[11:31] <ogra> hmm....
[11:32] <MrMazda> same one that worked with kubuntu
[11:32] <ogra> could you try with the same HW you used in kubuntu ? 
[11:32] <MrMazda> it IS the same
[11:32] <ogra> especially the WS install should be a no brainer ..
[11:32] <MrMazda> except
[11:33] <ogra> answer 10 questions and just wait till its finished ... no rocket sience ...
[11:33] <MrMazda> I think I typed in 'linux workstation vga=788' instead of just workstation
[11:33] <ogra> ah
[11:33] <ogra> that might have broken it ...
[11:33] <ogra> just use workstation
[11:33] <lucasvo> any thoughts of using graphical installation?
[11:33] <ogra> did you use such a string with kubuntu ? 
[11:33] <MrMazda> there is one?
[11:33] <ogra> nope
[11:33] <MrMazda> don't remember what I started kubuntu with
[11:34] <MrMazda> prolly just enter
[11:34] <ogra> dapper will have the ubuntu express installer ...
[11:34] <MrMazda> dapper needs to ask where I want boot loader
[11:34] <lucasvo> ogra: what is ubuntu express installer?
[11:34] <ogra> so we will stop sending out install CD through shipit and ship only the liveCD with ubuntu/kubuntu express
[11:34] <lucasvo> ah, cool
[11:35] <ogra> saves 50% of money
[11:35] <MrMazda> I'm gonna go start again with just workstation
[11:35] <lucasvo> ogra: I was thinking about asking to include such a function to dapper
[11:35] <ogra> MrMazda, thanks :)
[11:35] <ogra> lucasvo, it was long planned ...
[11:35] <lucasvo> ogra: guess great minds are similar
[11:35] <lucasvo> :D
[11:36] <ogra> we already planned it at the sydney conference for breezy ... but switching to gcc4 and modular X took to long in breezy 
[11:36] <ogra> so there was no time left for development
[11:37] <ogra> and i was planned for the gui stuff in the beginning, before i suddenly got edubuntu assigned 3 months before release date ...
[11:37] <ogra> so i had no time at all to work on it and had to care for building edubuntu instead ...
[11:39] <lucasvo> I think this has more priority
[11:39] <lucasvo> what about yast, I am quite surprised, yast didn't gain popularity when it became oss
[11:40] <ogra> because its crap
[11:40] <ogra> MrMazda is right, suse once was a very nice distro ...
[11:40] <ogra> then they invented yast2  ...
[11:41] <ogra> nd stopped doing things right ... which they did before 
[11:41] <ogra> i remember the first suse i saw ... 
[11:42] <ogra> it was 14 floppys and basicly a slackware with added value :)
[11:42] <lucasvo> :D
[11:42] <lucasvo> when I first saw it there was already a CD
[11:43] <ogra> i decided to go with the *real* slackware back then ....
[11:43] <ogra> and was very soon forced to use debian by my job ...
[11:44] <lucasvo> my friend had a linux from scratch but now he doesn't have time anymore next to work
[11:45] <MrMazda> ogra: copying from CD ...
[11:45] <ogra> great :)
[11:45] <MrMazda> other distros I usually do FTP installs
[11:46] <ogra> other distros also come on 20 CDs ;)
[11:46] <MrMazda> or 7 or 8 or 5 or 3 :)
[11:46] <ogra> hehe
[11:46] <ogra> yes :)
[11:47] <ogra> we have either a DVD (with all supported software) or the CD ...
[11:47] <ogra> putting all 17000 packages on media would result in about 5 stuffed DVDs
[11:48] <ogra> or even more ...
[11:48] <MrMazda> I bought the SuSE 10 box, came with no manual, made me very mad
[11:48] <ogra> if the distro is good enough to need no manual, thats fine imho ...
[11:49] <MrMazda> need some manual every now and then
[11:49] <ogra> i agree with stallman in this point ... a real perfect software is good enough to need a manual ...
[11:49] <MrMazda> my last too old for udev and 2.6 kernels
[11:49] <ogra> sadly there is no real perfect software in this world *G*
[11:49] <MrMazda> sure there is, OS/2 :)
[11:49] <ogra> heh
[11:50] <ogra> a bit outdated though ...
[11:50] <ogra> did you try the new version ? 
[11:50] <ogra> they released something this year iirc
[11:50] <MrMazda> kernel I'm running is 3 months old
[11:50] <MrMazda> 849,262 bytes
[11:51] <MrMazda> doesn't limit me to 15 SATA partitions either
[11:52] <ogra> i dont even have 15 partitions in use ...
[11:52] <ogra> nowhere 
[11:53] <MrMazda> http://www.ecomstation.com/
[11:53] <MrMazda> this disk has about 40
[11:53] <a-865> this also has about 40
[11:53] <ogra> but what for ? 
[11:53] <MrMazda> FIFO
[11:53] <MrMazda> backup
[11:53] <MrMazda> lotsa smalls
[11:54] <ogra> the ecomstation gui somewhat reminds me on amiga ...
[11:54] <MrMazda> I've preordered 2.0
[11:55] <MrMazda> the OS/2 WPS is why people stay instead of switching
[11:56] <MrMazda> IBM moved the primary OS/2 kernel hacker onto Linux 1 Dec, so the future is not bright
[11:57] <ogra> why ? he could enhance linux with os/2 features :)
[11:58] <MrMazda> http://groups.google.com/group/comp.os.os2.bugs/msg/1ee73f8bbddfac18?hl=en&
[11:59] <ogra> yes, but he's agreat mind, so it will get linux forward ... the OS/2 business is a dead end as long as ibm doesnt want to invest there
[12:00] <MrMazda> The eCS people want to eventually have the OS/2 desktop working on BSD or something like that
[12:00] <MrMazda> people aren't web to OS/2, only its WPS
[12:00] <MrMazda> people aren't wed to OS/2, only its WPS
[12:01] <ogra> yes, but still, there is no business model behind it anymore ... as long as nobody pays, it will die or idle around in slow development
[12:02] <ogra> as BSD it will become a niche product ...
[12:02] <MrMazda> so how long should a edubuntu WS install take anyway?
[12:03] <MrMazda> been about 20 min since start
[12:03] <ogra> less than 1h on recent HW
[12:03] <MrMazda> not recent
[12:03] <MrMazda> PIII-350
[12:03] <ogra> so around 1h then
[12:03] <ogra> its a question of disk/CD speed
[12:03] <ogra> not the CPU
[12:03] <MrMazda> CD prolly only 4X
[12:03] <MrMazda> mebbe 8X
[12:03] <ogra> ah, k then it migh take longer 
[12:04] <MrMazda> another FTP install advantage - don't need fast readers