[12:04] <MrMazda> don't hafta buy blanks
[12:04] <ogra> but you need internet access 
[12:04] <MrMazda> true
[12:04] <ogra> my boss is african ;) 
[12:05] <MrMazda> POTS?
[12:05] <ogra> there its hard to get even power, forget about more than a phoneline to go online ...
[12:05] <lucasvo> MrMazda: internetaccess (dsl) costs 50 bucks a month, this is fare more expansive than 1 blank for 1 $
[12:05] <MrMazda> I hear DSL in parts of Europe cheaper than POTS
[12:06] <lucasvo> yes it is
[12:06] <ogra> i pay about 10 for the line and about 20 for the flatrate ...
[12:06] <lucasvo> in CH for e.g.
[12:06] <MrMazda> lucky
[12:06] <lucasvo> I pay 50 for flatrate + Line
[12:06] <MrMazda> I pay $42 US total/mo
[12:06] <ogra> could be cheaper if i wouldnt live in the middle of nowhere
[12:06] <MrMazda> cabul, not DSL
[12:06] <MrMazda> pretty fast
[12:06] <lucasvo> cityflat :D
[12:07] <lucasvo> MrMazda: how fast?
[12:07] <ogra> cable is great if you dont have millions of users on one line
[12:07] <lucasvo> I have 600kbit up 150 kbit down
[12:07] <MrMazda> CD takes less than 40 minute download
[12:07] <MrMazda> unless server slow
[12:07] <ogra> yup
[12:07] <ogra> thats nice :)
[12:07] <MrMazda> makes FTP installs fast
[12:08] <lucasvo> my shipit connection takes about 3 weeks to download cd's :D
[12:08] <ogra> i'm at the very end of the line here ... 768k is the biggest i can get 
[12:08] <lucasvo> ogra: skyDSL :D
[12:08] <MrMazda> wget usually shows me just under 600
[12:08] <ogra> but thats the price i like to pay for the view ;)
[12:09] <lucasvo> ogra: ronja/wifi can give you connection for 15km, maybe there you would get a better connection?
[12:09] <ogra> http://www.grawert.net/gallery/pano/
[12:09] <lucasvo> wow, that's really out of nowhere
[12:09] <ogra> lucasvo, yes, but i'd need someone to be the upstream for it and still several hops to get over the hills
[12:12] <MrMazda> should it be ready for the restart yet?
[12:12] <ogra> it should telly you ...
[12:12] <ogra> -y
[12:12] <MrMazda> I'm downstairs, it's upstairs
[12:12] <ogra> ah, k 
[12:13] <ogra> 30 min is a good time to have a look i think ... +/- 10 min for the slower HW 
[12:15] <lucasvo> ogra: is there already a client for s-c-p
[12:15] <lucasvo> ogra: will there be any?
[12:15] <ogra> client ? 
[12:15] <lucasvo> which has control over the X session
[12:16] <lucasvo> or won't it be able to change the Xserver?
[12:16] <ogra> what for ? 
[12:16] <lucasvo> blank a screen?
[12:16] <lucasvo> show video?
[12:16] <ogra> thats a thing to do with the screensaver
[12:16] <lucasvo> ah ok
[12:17] <lucasvo> and how do you want to activate screensaver?
[12:17] <ogra> forget about video in ltap
[12:17] <ogra> ltsp
[12:17] <lucasvo> why?
[12:17] <ogra> becuse you wont make it work fluid ...
[12:17] <lucasvo> too slow?
[12:17] <ogra> too much data foling over the netlink
[12:18] <ogra> *flowing
[12:18] <ogra> video or GL are things you cnt solve without running stuff locally on the client
[12:19] <MrMazda> CD ejected
[12:19] <ogra> great :)
[12:20] <MrMazda> the F[3-7]  screens should have the word "workstation" somewhere
[12:20] <ogra> yup
[12:20] <ogra> my bad 
[12:20] <ogra> its pretty different in dapper already
[12:20] <ogra> since we use gfxboot for the CD ...
[12:20] <ogra> suse very friendlytweaked it for us to work in ubuntu ;)
[12:21] <MrMazda> SuSE my favorite Linux installer
[12:21] <lucasvo> yast2 ?
[12:21] <MrMazda> Mandriva good too
[12:21] <ogra> but it only runs on x86 
[12:21] <MrMazda> FC sux
[12:21] <MrMazda> package selection part of FC very limited
[12:21] <MrMazda> no search
[12:21] <ogra> we support 5 arches ... so we need something that work on all of them
[12:22] <ogra> *works
[12:22] <MrMazda> Xandros installer nice, but very simple
[12:23] <ogra> the ubuntu/debian installer is the most powerful one that exists ... but you sadly have to live with the bluescreen ...
[12:23] <MrMazda> why isn't Firefox on the Kubuntu CD?
[12:23] <ogra> it isnt ? 
[12:23] <MrMazda> it wasn
[12:23] <MrMazda> it wasn't installed
[12:24] <ogra> i didnt know that ... i only help riddell to test the liveCD sometimes, but that doesnt go beyond testing if it boots and starting 1-2 apps
[12:25] <MrMazda> doesn't matter, I use mozilla.org builds any way -> http://cvs-www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla-org/html/unix/dpi.html&rev=&root=/cvsroot/
[12:25] <ogra> thats fine for kubuntu, but i wouldnt do that in ubuntu/edubuntu 
[12:26] <MrMazda> from /usr/local
[12:26] <MrMazda> I leave the distro builds alone
[12:26] <ogra> yes, but there is much stuff linked against firefox ... i.e. the gnoem helpsystem 
[12:27] <ogra>  /usr/local/lib will overrde /usr/lib
[12:27] <MrMazda> right, so I leave all that undisturbed, and just run from /usr/local/firefox
[12:27] <MrMazda> not installed, untarred
[12:27] <ogra> ah, only the binary
[12:27] <ogra> that should be fine ..
[12:28] <MrMazda> works fine everywhere else that has the legacy libs available
[12:28] <ogra> yup
[12:29] <MrMazda> http://cvs-www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla-org/html/ports/os2/index.html&rev=&root=/cvsroot/
[12:30] <lucasvo> hi crimsun_ 
[12:30] <crimsun_> hi
[12:30] <crimsun_> wonky coffee shop wifi ;)
[12:30] <ogra> hehe
[12:31] <lucasvo> is there anything like alt-tab for switching from different apps from different desktops?
[12:37] <lucasvo> how can I open a shell as a user with the X display set correctly?
[12:37] <ogra> you cant  
[12:37] <lucasvo> :(
[12:37] <ogra> usually xhost does that 
[12:38] <ogra> but over a local tcp socket
[12:38] <lucasvo> how can I run a command as a special user with X set correctly?
[12:38] <ogra> since thats very insecure, tcp transport is disabled in ubuntu
[12:39] <ogra> if i would know how to do that in a secure way, you could look it up in the s-c-p source ;)
[12:40] <lucasvo> how can I edit the menus in gnome, they got really messed up after dapper upgrade
[12:40] <ogra> i'll have to inspect the ssh tunneling protocol a bit more, there mustbe a possibility to hook in there somewhere
[12:41] <ogra> right click on the ubuntu logo
[12:41] <lucasvo> ah
[12:41] <lucasvo> is there some reset button?
[12:41] <lucasvo> found it
[12:41] <ogra> niot that i'm aware of ..
[12:42] <lucasvo> Revert :D
[12:42] <ogra> ah the "Defaults" button, right
[12:55] <MrMazda> ogra: is it OK to simply tack the isa sound card module onto the bottom of /etc/modules manually?
[12:55] <MrMazda> it's what I did in kubuntu
[12:55] <ogra> did it work ? 
[12:55] <MrMazda> 1
[12:56] <ogra> if it did, that should work in edubuntu as well
[12:56] <MrMazda> didn't know if that was another no-no
[12:56] <ogra> just make sure o use the alsa module ... (the one that starts with snd- )
[12:57] <MrMazda> snd-azt2320
[12:57] <ogra> yup, thats fine
[12:57] <MrMazda> learned that in Xandrox
[12:57] <MrMazda> learned that in Xandros
[12:58] <MrMazda> 80% done, wasting time again on wierd fonts
[12:59] <ogra> heh, yes, i thought about dropping some, but we support 90 languages ... and these fonts are needed ...
[01:00] <MrMazda> only after the other langs installed though, right?
[01:00] <ogra> not really, for example it maked japanese websites not looking weird if you accidently end up on one ...
[01:01] <ogra> but that indeed doesnt teach you the lang *g*
[01:01] <MrMazda> who knows from wierd if only you can read English
[01:01] <ogra> they should probably be tied to the language packs ...
[01:01] <ogra> but that would blow them up even more ...
[01:02] <ogra> and if i look at the kde language packs i get nightmares ...
[01:06] <ogra> hey Hemet_Ka 
[01:06] <ogra> you left to fast :)
[01:06] <Lord_Athur> hi ogra 
[01:06] <Lord_Athur> hiow are you?
[01:06] <Lord_Athur> :D
[01:06] <lucasvo> hi Lord_Athur 
[01:06] <ogra> there are squashfs-tools, you might probably find what you look for in there ..
[01:07] <Lord_Athur> mm
[01:07] <Lord_Athur> ok ogra 
[01:07] <Lord_Athur> hi lucasvo 
[01:08] <Lord_Athur> are the metadistros good distros?
[01:08] <ogra> which ones specifically ? 
[01:08] <Lord_Athur> mmm
[01:08] <lucasvo> ubuntu is the best distro ! :D
[01:09] <Lord_Athur> I don't know, I want to make one
[01:09] <Lord_Athur> :P
[01:09] <Lord_Athur> jejeje
[01:09] <Lord_Athur> It'd be only for learn more about distros...
[01:09] <ogra> look at the existing ones and look at the userbase ... then guess yourself ...
[01:09] <ogra> (edubuntu is a metadistro ;) )
[01:09] <Lord_Athur> you're right
[01:09] <ogra> as well as userlinux
[01:09] <Lord_Athur> I'll see it
[01:09] <lucasvo> Lord_Athur: what metadistro do you want to do?
[01:10] <Lord_Athur> one with KDEas the default GE & one with my programs
[01:10] <ogra> if you compare userlinux with edubuntu. you'll find very different outcome ...
[01:11] <ogra> metaistro basically means that you have a metapackage that defines a subset of anouther distro to be installed
[01:11] <Lord_Athur> mmm
[01:12] <Lord_Athur> ok
[01:12] <ogra> userlinux is a set of metapackages in debian, but has no real userbase ... edubuntu and kubuntu are metadistros in ubuntu ...
[01:12] <ogra> consisting of metapackages (edubuntu-desktop, edubuntu-server, edubuntu-artwork)
[01:12] <ogra> or kubuntu-desktop ...
[01:13] <Lord_Athur> mmm
[01:13] <Lord_Athur> can I put the Kubuntu-desktop in the devian server?
[01:13] <ogra> i wouldnt try that
[01:14] <Lord_Athur> ogra, how can I use the apckage of squashfs-tools?
[01:14] <ogra> no idea, as i told you before, i have no experience with squashfs
[01:14] <ogra> but i saw there is this package ...
[01:15] <Lord_Athur> ok
[01:15] <Lord_Athur> thanks
[01:15] <MrMazda> ogra: gdm is up
[01:15] <Lord_Athur> I've to go
[01:15] <Lord_Athur> bye
[01:15] <ogra> look in /usr/share/doc/ squashfs-tools
[01:15] <ogra> gah
[01:15] <ogra> he's always to fast to get the important info :P
[01:15] <ogra> MrMazda, YAY !!!
[01:16] <MrMazda> need to unerror 'linux workstation'
[01:16] <MrMazda> now it's safe 4 u 2 goto bed
[01:16] <MrMazda> :)
[01:16] <ogra> not anymore ... as i said, we use gfxboot in the new CD ;)
[01:16] <ogra> so you got a wimple menu to select from ...
[01:17] <ogra> *simple
[01:17] <MrMazda> just a password box
[01:17] <ogra> its only 1am... i usually am up until 3 or 4 ;)
[01:17] <lucasvo> ogra: and when do you have to begin working?
[01:18] <MrMazda> first thing is get nfs, Gecko & Chatzilla going
[01:18] <lucasvo> ogra: are you more inactive when you work anyway?
[01:18] <ogra> lucasvo, as i like ... as long as edubuntu is ready at release day and i finish my spec in time ;)
[01:18] <ogra> *specs
[01:18] <lucasvo> MrMazda: always think that your daughter maybe not want to have that many options as you like to :D
[01:18] <ogra> this here *is* my work
[01:18] <lucasvo> ogra: so it is akkordarbeit :P
[01:19] <ogra> nope, just slavery of the release schedule ;)
[01:19] <lucasvo> ogra: maybe sabfdl should add something to your specs, that you are in a hurry a little bit more :D
[01:19] <ogra> i could stop after 8h of work if i'd like
[01:20] <ogra> but then it *would* be "akkordarbeit" ;)
[01:20] <ogra> this way i'm online ~14h and have nice chats inbetween ... 
[01:20] <MrMazda> ogra: arghhhhh! 640x480 :(
[01:20] <ogra> damned
[01:21] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you already had the problem wiht kubuntu, didn't you
[01:21] <lucasvo> ?
[01:21] <ogra> did it work better with kubuntu ? 
[01:21] <MrMazda> prolly same as b4, no vert/horiz lines in xorg.conf
[01:21] <ogra> yup
[01:21] <lucasvo> MrMazda: it was the wrong horsync
[01:21] <MrMazda> I had to put them in manually b4
[01:21] <MrMazda> not wrong, NONE
[01:21] <ogra> they are not needed with recent HW, but if your monitor doesnt report the DDC values right, you need them
[01:22] <ogra> err DCC
[01:22] <MrMazda> I can put them in and restart X, but should I save the logs for a bug report?
[01:22] <ogra> wont fix the herdware i guess 
[01:22] <MrMazda> I looked yesterday for such bugs
[01:22] <ogra> *hard
[01:22] <MrMazda> lots recently fixed or duped
[01:22] <lucasvo> MrMazda: except mine :(
[01:23] <ogra> its the DCC reporting of the monitor thats not working
[01:23] <lucasvo> ogra: daniels is not around, where is he?
[01:23] <ogra> perparing for uni, he starts studying in january
[01:23] <lucasvo> aha
[01:24] <ogra> so he's not around 20h/day anymore
[01:24] <lucasvo> Unpacking mythtv-backend (from .../mythtv-backend_0.18.1-5_i386.deb) ...
[01:24] <lucasvo> Setting up mythtv-backend (0.18.1-5) ...
[01:24] <lucasvo> chown: `mythtv:mythtv': invalid user
[01:24] <MrMazda> May 1998 Sony CPD-200
[01:24] <lucasvo> ogra: where does he live?
[01:24] <ogra> melbourne
[01:24] <lucasvo> ah, crap
[01:24] <lucasvo> so I have to look for him in the night
[01:25] <ogra> MrMazda, sudo ddcprobe
[01:27] <lucasvo> the germans are crazy, they want to use soldiers for WM, a civil war! 
[01:28] <ogra> *hater
[01:29] <lucasvo> there is nothing as boring as soccer games on tv
[01:29] <Hemet_Ka> ogra, I found this page about Metadistros http://metadistros.hispalinux.org/
[01:30] <Hemet_Ka> it's in Spanish, but you can select your language
[01:31] <Hemet_Ka> could you see it?
[01:31] <ogra> i know hispalinux, they were at the edubuntu summit
[01:32] <Hemet_Ka> realy?
[01:32] <Hemet_Ka> what does the word summit mean?
[01:32] <Hemet_Ka> :S
[01:32] <ogra> s well as guadalinux and lliurex and linex
[01:32] <Hemet_Ka> I'm a bag Englsih speaker
[01:32] <ogra> a developer gathering
[01:32] <Hemet_Ka> ok
[01:33] <ogra> seems in spain, every village has its own distro :)
[01:33] <Hemet_Ka> then the matadistro project that the page shows must be a good alternative for me
[01:33] <ogra> many of them are switching to ubuntu ...
[01:34] <Hemet_Ka> but I cannot download the software that is in the page
[01:34] <Hemet_Ka> :S
[01:34] <ogra> go to hispalinux.es
[01:34] <ogra> that might help
[01:35] <Hemet_Ka> but the page send me to http://metadistros.hispalinux.org/ 
[01:35] <Hemet_Ka> it's the same
[01:35] <Hemet_Ka> xD
[01:35] <ogra> heh
[01:35] <ogra> looks somehow unmaintained
[01:37] <Hemet_Ka> 
[01:37] <ogra> ah, no, last post dec 17
[01:37] <Hemet_Ka> jeje
[01:39] <lucasvo> good night!
[01:39] <Hemet_Ka> :D lucasvo 
[01:40] <ogra> night
[01:40] <Hemet_Ka> is the kubuntu-desktop package in only one file?
[01:40] <ogra> its a meta package ...
[01:40] <ogra> so its an empty package that only has dependencys
[01:41] <Hemet_Ka> ok
[01:41] <ogra> apt-get source kubuntu-desktop and have a look
[01:44] <Navire> I instaled Edubuntu there, with  old  client  petium 100Mhz 32RAM. Hi not suport boot PXE, suport boot on floppy. Start, but very slow!!!! Someone can help me?
[01:46] <Navire> Anyone know how to do  this?
[01:49] <Hemet_Ka> I don't know
[01:50] <Navire> Ok
[01:50] <Navire> Hemet, Do you use LTSP?
[01:50] <Hemet_Ka> what's LTSP?
[01:51] <Navire> Liniux Terminal Server Project. Terminal Server fro Linux
[01:52] <Hemet_Ka> no, Idon't use it
[01:52] <Navire> Thank you. :)
[01:52] <Navire> Do you use Edubuntu ou Ubuntu?
[01:53] <Hemet_Ka> is there a page to read more about LTSP
[01:53] <Hemet_Ka> mm
[01:53] <Hemet_Ka> Kubuntu
[01:54] <Hemet_Ka> this don't have to be too different
[01:54] <Hemet_Ka> realy?
[01:54] <Hemet_Ka> KDE is better then gnome (it's what i think)
[01:56] <Navire> I will use KDE, but now use GNome on Ubuntu is very good!!
[01:57] <Hemet_Ka> :P
[01:57] <Navire> lol
[01:58] <Navire> Try Gnome and to see it is very very good than KDE.
[01:59] <Navire> On Ubuntu
[02:05] <Hemet_Ka> I've seen gnome
[02:05] <Hemet_Ka> but I prefer KDE
[02:07] <Hemet_Ka> It's the best
[02:13] <Hemet_Ka> I'll be bask in 5 minutes
[02:17] <luluroot> ogra: it's MrMazda upstairs on edubuntu/firefox/chatzilla
[02:17] <luluroot> lucasvo: u awake?
[02:18] <luluroot> again unknown key garbage on the consoles
[02:24] <Hemet_Ka> hi
[02:33] <MrMazda> hello Hemet_Ka 
[02:33] <Hemet_Ka> :D
[02:33] <Hemet_Ka> hi MrMazda 
[02:38] <MrMazda> I think everyone else watchin TV or asleep :-p
[02:39] <MrMazda> or whatever they do besides puters on weekends
[02:52] <Navire> I have to go now, I will sleep now
[02:52] <Navire> Good  bye evebady
[02:52] <Navire> See you later
[02:52] <Navire> take care
[02:52] <Navire> I love Gnome :)
[02:52] <MrMazda> cul8r
[02:52] <Navire> The best Desktop
[03:02] <Hemet_Ka> hi
[04:15] <MrMazda> help
[04:15] <MrMazda> ogra: help
[04:15] <MrMazda> lucasvo: help
[04:15] <MrMazda> somebody help
[04:52] <Yagisan> re
[05:09] <Yagisan> MrMazda: what broke ?
[05:15] <lululinux> grub
[05:15] <lululinux> fixed now
[05:15] <lululinux> dumb install too stupid to play local mp3 files though
[05:15] <Yagisan> lululinux: you need to enable restriced formats for mp3
[05:15] <lululinux> mebbe mhz knows how to fix it ;-)
[05:15] <Yagisan> lululinux: f*cking patent issues
[05:15] <lululinux> what's that mean?
[05:16] <mhz> hi all
[05:16] <lululinux> how
[05:16] <Yagisan> G'day mhz - what's the wiki page for restricted formats say, basically, add universe and multiverse right ?
[05:16] <mhz> iirc
[05:17] <lululinux> added universe long time ago
[05:17] <mhz> multiverse is restricted
[05:17] <lululinux> first thing practically, since mc is missing from the CD
[05:17] <mhz> i mean, multiverse is the 'non-always-free-zone'
[05:17] <Yagisan> lululinux: yep, the wonderful mc is universe. you need to add multiverse
[05:19] <Yagisan> lululinux: First https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AddingRepositoriesHowto
[05:20] <Yagisan> lululinux: then https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats
[05:20] <lululinux> wiki is screwed up
[05:20] <Yagisan> should help with mp3
[05:20] <lululinux> huge horizontal scroll
[05:20] <lululinux> can't use it
[05:20] <Yagisan> wiki works fine for me @ 1024x768
[05:21] <lululinux> not here
[05:21] <lululinux> huge horizontal scroll
[05:22] <Yagisan> lululinux: do you have granny fonts setup ie big fonts instead of standard ?
[05:22] <Yagisan> lululinux: control + 0 in firefox should fix it
[05:23] <Yagisan> mhz: how are you today ?
[05:25] <mhz> tired, i couldnt sleep friday-saturday night
[05:25] <mhz> .oO(it's sunday 01:25 AM)
[05:26] <Yagisan> mhz: me either, Eric would get up every hour to either shit, or eat.
[05:26] <Yagisan> mhz: have you seen Iron Chef ?
[05:26] <mhz> hehehehe
[05:27] <mhz> nope, never seen iron chef
[05:27] <Yagisan> mhz: you poor thing, you have no idea what you are missing!
[05:27] <mhz> hehehe
[05:44] <MrMazda> Yagisan: a lunatic built http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html
[05:45] <MrMazda> too wide because huge whitespace in the <pre> stuff
[05:45] <MrMazda> see e.g. line 613
[05:47] <MrMazda> only fits on screen by using mousetype, which I can't read
[05:48] <a-865> Yagisan: horizontal scroll even at 1792x1344
[05:50] <Yagisan> you must have some weird settings somewhere
[05:50] <MrMazda> all 3 puters same problem
[05:51] <MrMazda> a lunatic built http://help.ubuntu.com/starterguide/C/faqguide-all.html
[05:54] <Yagisan> I'm sending you a screenie of how it looks to me
[05:56] <Yagisan> Tried both firefox and konqueror, I can't reproduce *any* horizontal scroll, without making the fonts excessively large
[05:58] <Yagisan> MrMazda: send me a screenshot
[05:59] <MrMazda> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/accessibility.html
[06:01] <MrMazda> Yagisan: http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/helpubuntu.gif
[06:02] <MrMazda> Chatzilla was backlogged again :-p
[06:03] <MrMazda> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=319219
[06:04] <mhz> http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez/EdubuntuRelatedPhotos
[06:06] <Yagisan> MrMazda: your fonts are too large, that's why it displays odd. On a visual inspection, that page would meet WAI-A accessibility ratings.
[06:06] <MrMazda> no it wouldn't
[06:06] <MrMazda> my fonts are EXACTLY the right size
[06:07] <MrMazda> Yagisan: http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/accessibility.html http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html
[06:09] <MrMazda> too wide because huge whitespace in the <pre> stuff
[06:09] <MrMazda> see e.g. line 613
[06:11] <MrMazda> http://cvs-www.mozilla.org/webtools/bonsai/cvslog.cgi?file=mozilla-org/html/unix/dpi.html&rev=&root=/cvsroot/
[06:15] <Yagisan> MrMazda: Well, I didn't write it, btw I sense some irony that your default size page also fails to validate at WAI standards ;)
[06:15] <Yagisan> IIRC the documetation is being updated for dapper
[06:15] <Yagisan> so I'm sure it will be fixed
[06:16] <MrMazda> Yagisan: what fails?
[06:17] <MrMazda> since Bobby disappeared I haven't checked anything
[06:17] <Yagisan> MrMazda: For my business website I use http://webxact.watchfire.com/
[06:18] <Yagisan> MrMazda: I try for level AAA if possible, but some pages are only AA
[06:19] <Yagisan> MrMazda: it failed at level AA
[06:20] <Yagisan> MrMazda: You also may want to rethink Comic Sans MS, that is a hard font to read
[06:20] <MrMazda> look at why, it claims way lotta broken links, links that aren't even on the page
[06:21] <MrMazda> COMIC SANS IS NOT HARD TO READ unless it is too small, and I only use it for TITLES
[06:21] <MrMazda> I don't care who doesn't like Comic Sans
[06:21] <MrMazda> They can uninstall it if they hate it
[06:22] <MrMazda> where is it finding all the broken links?
[06:22] <Yagisan> MrMazda: 1, the links are there I read the source, 2 what a hypocritical response for an accessibility person
[06:22] <Yagisan> MrMazda: thanks for assuming MY default size
[06:23] <MrMazda> ???
[06:23] <MrMazda> all I assume about your default is that you chose it appropriately
[06:25] <MrMazda> http://webxact2.watchfire.com/report.asp?t=1&s=5&ts=8450&y=0 claims 6i1 broken links in a page that doesn't even have 10 links in it total
[06:25] <MrMazda> http://webxact2.watchfire.com/report.asp?t=1&s=5&ts=8450&y=0 claims 61 broken links in a page that doesn't even have 10 links in it total
[06:26] <MrMazda> Yagisan: now I see we weren't talking about the same page
[06:27] <mhz> :)
[06:27] <MrMazda> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html is that I thought you meant, and I pasted the wrong URI
[06:27] <MrMazda> http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/wauth1.html has stuff I have don't have adequate web space for
[06:28] <Yagisan> MrMazda: something to keep in mind, is that every <a href> tag, even if it points to the same page is a link
[06:30] <MrMazda> Yagisan: the priority 2 failure on http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html is due to code pasted into the page directly from the WC3 site for the validation link. o_O
[06:32] <MrMazda> silly stuff, like not liking H5 to follow H1
[10:26] <lucasvo> hello
[12:03] <lucasvo> hello ivan 
[01:01] <lucasvo> ogra: I am now python pro :D
[01:01] <lucasvo> ogra: is there anything I can do with s-c-p?
[02:00] <ogra> couls some native english speaker check the edubuntu flight2 release announcement for typos and grammar ? 
[02:00] <ogra> https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight2Announcement
[02:10] <Yagisan> spacey: ping
[02:22] <Yagisan> G'day mhz
[02:22] <mhz> wow!
[02:23] <mhz> Yagisan: gifted guy! :D
[02:23] <Yagisan> mhz: did I do something right again ?
[02:23] <mhz> hehehe, being awake
[02:24] <Yagisan> mhz: It's called two small children :)
[02:24] <Yagisan> I look like a panda, big black rings under my eyes
[02:24] <mhz> LOL!!1
[02:25] <Yagisan> mhz: what is this mythical sleep you speak of ? I know no such thing
[02:26] <mhz> :)
[02:26] <mhz> 'mythical' hehehe
[02:26] <mhz> wait til they're over 5
[02:26] <lululinux> wohoo, just got free bigger HD, free RAM, and free faster CPU. See ya later mhz Yagisan & lucasvo . :)
[02:28] <mhz> Yagisan: is bittorrent on commandline?
[02:28] <Yagisan> mhz: yes!! I can send them to school - I'll become fully nocturnal, I can sleep again
[02:28] <Yagisan> mhz: I don't no, I don't use the bittorent clients with ubuntu
[02:29] <Yagisan> s/no/know
[02:29] <Yagisan> I use azureus for my bittorent stuff
[02:29] <ogra> mhz, just clisk a .torrent file in firefox, gnome-bitorrent will care for it ...
[02:30] <Yagisan> but that needs a java 1.5 runtime, most likely sun's, although blackdown, or ibm should do it.
[02:30] <mhz> ogra: hehehe, you make life too easy :)
[02:30] <ogra> heh
[02:30] <Yagisan> I'll be very happy when gcj runs azureus
[02:30] <Yagisan> or at least kaffe or sablevm
[02:31] <mhz> I know i am no advanced GNU/Linux user but I do know I prefer to do things manually so I have little clues of what's going on, ogra
[02:32] <mhz> otherwise, I'd probably use Mac OSX :)
[02:32] <mhz> .oO(well, I wouldn't because it is not Free as in freedom)
[02:33] <ogra> you can also download the .torrent file and open it manually with gnome-btdownload ;)
[02:33] <mhz> hehehehehehehehehehe
[02:34] <mhz> ogra: I really like your sense of humour (very diff from other german guys i have met)
[02:35] <ogra> edubuntu testers ? (hopefully=
[02:35] <Yagisan> Of course, with porn gone, there would be no need for adsl2, as suddenly there would be excess bandwidth for all
[02:35] <mhz> BTW, why is torrent so recommended?
[02:36] <ogra> because it saves bandwidth for everyone ...
[02:36] <Yagisan> It spreads the bandwidth load over all people involved
[02:36] <Yagisan> you can get you download done quicker
[02:36] <ogra> as all p2p apps do :)
[02:37] <Yagisan> s/get you/get your
[02:37] <Yagisan> Of course, that does rely on you also sharing the download to at least a 1:1 ratio
[02:38] <Yagisan> mhz: Don't forget to watch milk battle :)
[02:40] <mhz> Yagisan: 80%
[02:41] <mhz> Yagisan: but is that the very best featured?
[02:41] <mhz> sorry, ogra can answer too ;)
[02:44] <Yagisan> mhz: best feature bittorrent client ?
[02:44] <Yagisan> mhz: My personal preference is azureus http://azureus.sourceforge.net/
[02:45] <Yagisan> mhz: but as I said, needs java 1.5 compatible runtime
[02:45] <Yagisan> mhz: IIRC there may be an ubuntu package for it in dapper
[02:46] <mhz> hmm, interesting
[02:46] <ogra> for 1.5 ?
[02:46] <ogra> not as long as ibm doesnt release a 1.5 blackdown package
[02:46] <Yagisan> no, the azureus package
[02:46] <mhz> .oO(maybe Emacs have a 'torrent' like plugin :)
[02:46] <Yagisan> IIRC I thought I saw it either in ubuntu or debian
[02:47] <Yagisan> perhaps debian mentors
[02:48] <ogra> oh, why is that ?
[02:49] <Yagisan> he wants a new model ??
[02:50] <mhz> because I ordered 3 laptops (well, I chose and this friend payed for them) from eBay and 2 were never sent to us. Now I gotta give this friend back his money :(
[02:51] <Yagisan> mhz: hmm, did you use paypal ?
[02:51] <mhz> Yagisan: unless I got a Zaurus 'horizontal' screen model (4 GB in ROM and 1 USB port), I would definately prefer a Toshiba Libretto (less than 10 inches)!
[02:52] <mhz> Yagisan: yup! but we never knew that the transaction 'filing complaints' lasted 60 days tops.
[02:52] <mhz> and the communication with seller was always good (he giving us reasons why he couldn't senf them yet and crap)
[02:53] <mhz> opps... i rephrase 'cr*p' wit 'cramps'
[02:53] <Yagisan> mhz: so the cocksucker delayed you until you could not get a refund. Bastard.
[02:53] <mhz> yup
[02:54] <mhz> and I also complained to eBay because if you read 'normal' info, they never mention about 60 days.
[02:54] <Yagisan> mhz: your english is great if you understand what I called that seller
[02:55] <mhz> Yagisan: plus the fact that ebaye sellers (with laptops I liked) did not want to sell outside US so it took me 3 months to convince them :(
[02:55] <mhz> hehehe
[02:55] <mhz> thx
[02:55] <Yagisan> ogra: IBM does have a Java 5 for download
[02:55] <ogra> oh
[02:55] <Yagisan> but not blackdown
[02:56] <ogra> gah
[02:56] <Yagisan> I just checked both
[02:56] <Yagisan> mhz: I'm sorry you where ripped off :(
[02:56] <ogra> we only have access to the blackdown sources and cant include binary only packages in ubuntu
[02:56] <mhz> ogra: in ubuntu-user ML there was a bit of complaining about devels decisions (4 lines email). Can i paste them?
[02:56] <Yagisan> s/where/were
[02:56] <mhz> Yagisan: sheeps happens
[02:56] <ogra> sure, but i read -users
[02:57] <mhz> ohhh. zaro killed
[02:57] <mhz> zero
[02:58] <ogra> i wonder why people never help while the specs are worked out and the decisions are made but complain very loud 7 months later
[02:58] <mhz> yup!, I 100% agree with you
[02:58] <Yagisan> ogra: I complain very load bout the specs I care about, but I couldn't go to canada
[02:59] <Yagisan> ogra: so, in dapper, I still won't have decent multi-lingual input :(
[02:59] <mhz> I wish to think it is a matter of 'not knowing how to get involved'
[02:59] <ogra> Yagisan, the specs are on the wiki ... and are worked out there
[02:59] <ogra> Yagisan, scim ? 
[02:59] <Yagisan> yep
[02:59] <Yagisan> can you say breezy was a total regression
[02:59] <mhz> pasting...
[02:59] <mhz> > MTA is important, I vote 'yes'.
[02:59] <mhz> > Have you talked to the Devel guys?
[02:59] <mhz> Absolutely. Some of us would like to use MUAs that don't suck, like Mutt.
[02:59] <mhz> Plus, mailx is used to send email from scripts all of the time. These
[02:59] <mhz> people dumbing-down Linux and making it less useful are making me want
[02:59] <mhz> to go use FreeBSD.
[03:00] <Yagisan> ogra: at least it is on the agenda
[03:00] <ogra> i was asked about it by several germans about it too now and minghua in -motu is upstream in debian for some of them ...
[03:00] <ogra> so a scim team would probably help
[03:00] <ogra> the prob is that we dont have enough devs for it ...
[03:00] <Yagisan> ogra: yep, I've met minghua in -motu
[03:01] <ogra> i personally don use scim 
[03:01] <ogra> but i see the need
[03:01] <ogra> especially if we want to gain more on the asian market
[03:01] <Yagisan> ogra: well, in my case, uim the alternative, only works in gnome apps, and breaks more the half of universe
[03:02] <ogra> but its all gpl, right ?
[03:02] <Yagisan> ogra: If you even want to communicate with asia, it needs to be fixed
[03:02] <mhz> BTW, ogra, I just want to 'log' here that after jdub got back (that he said in -devel) I still get no mail regarding 'edubuntu-devel-es' ML :(
[03:02] <Yagisan> yep, all gpl
[03:02] <mhz> and I am afraid he gest pissed off if I insist, once more.
[03:02] <ogra> mhz, nope, he wont 
[03:02] <ogra> just poke him
[03:02] <mhz> okis
[03:03] <mhz> so, based on your answers... no good devel would get pissed off?
[03:03] <ogra> mhz, the mail stuff is one apt-get from the CD away... i dont see the issue there ...
[03:03] <ogra> yup
[03:04] <ogra> especially not jdub...
[03:04] <mhz> ogra: sure, I know, that's why i only asked if that person had talked to devel guys.
[03:04] <ogra> Yagisan, btw, are you a slug member ? 
[03:04] <mhz> Yagisan: are you going to NewZeland in January ?
[03:05] <Yagisan> slug ?? no
[03:05] <ogra> oh, why ? 
[03:05] <Yagisan> mhz: I can't afford to go to kiwi land
[03:06] <ogra> Yagisan, i hope one of the confs in the near future will be in asia
[03:06] <Yagisan> ogra: because first I need to google for it
[03:06] <ogra> haha
[03:06] <ogra> youre in sydney, arent you ? 
[03:06] <Yagisan> yep
[03:06] <ogra> so slug is for you then ;) 
[03:07] <Yagisan> well, technically it's western sydney
[03:07] <ogra> mhz could send his poking through you to jdub ;)
[03:07] <ogra> with a *real* finger involved
[03:07] <Yagisan> oh, there is a linux users group here
[03:07] <mhz> ogra: :D
[03:07] <ogra> yes, the:
[03:08] <ogra> syfney
[03:08] <Yagisan> I should go
[03:08] <ogra> Linux
[03:08] <ogra> User
[03:08] <Yagisan> now where is it ?
[03:08] <ogra> Group
[03:08] <ogra> aka, slug ;)
[03:08] <Yagisan> ogra: slug is a pest related to a snail
[03:08] <Yagisan> :)
[03:08] <ogra> loool
[03:08] <mhz> lol
[03:08] <kjcole> Hiya...
[03:08] <mhz> M$ = snail
[03:08] <mhz> i had never seen it like that!
[03:08] <mhz> :D
[03:09] <mhz> hey kjcole Mr. EduDoc!
[03:09] <Yagisan> basically slugs are snails without shells
[03:09] <mhz> interesting
[03:09] <kjcole> mhz, Sitting here waiting for Elkner to arrive.  (But I'm early.  We're scheduled for 10 this morning.)
[03:10] <mhz> but I prefer NAT Geo or Discovery :)
[03:11] <kjcole> ogra, you had mentioned giving me clues as to what to do about "bzr push"  (Though I want it to work on my server, I think the ideal solution for the Cookbook would be to have Launchpad keep it safe and warm.)
[03:11] <mhz> kjcole: please send my huge thanks to Elkner as well, because you 2 meeting on a sunday at 10 AM.. is very heroic!
[03:11] <mhz> and you are meeting to work not just to play cards
[03:11] <mhz> or role playing
[03:11] <ogra> kjcole, i dont think the launchpad supermirror is ready yet, you'll have to resort to your server for now
[03:12] <Yagisan> ogra: I'm a monkey, where is slug located ?
[03:12] <kjcole> mhz, 10 isn't heroic -- last week's 8:30 on a Sunday *THAT* was heroic. ;-)
[03:12] <mhz> wow! yup!!
[03:12] <ogra> kjcole, the fastes way to have push working would be to run a ssh server on your server and use sftp pushing
[03:12] <ogra> but sftp is bretty slow for push, so probably an rsync server would be cooler
[03:13] <mhz> rsync is nice, very cool
[03:13] <kjcole> ogra, ssh server is running, but I've got to go back and figure out what I did to restrict access.  (I had it running ssh server under Fedora, but had access to the machine very strictly controlled.)
[03:14] <ogra> just make sftp possible to the dir you have your branch in ...
[03:14] <mhz> kjcole: maybe Yagisan 'gifted non-sleepy-sec-expert' may help
[03:15] <kjcole> As for rsync, when I push, I think the error message is that it doesn't understand rsync.  But I haven't banged around on that much.
[03:16] <ogra> that sounds like a server prob
[03:17] <Yagisan> Is the server aggressively firewalled ?
[03:17] <kjcole> ogra, yeah, my thought as well.
[03:17] <Yagisan> I've occasionally forgotten to open a port for ssh
[03:18] <ivan> No slug, no snail! I want to use kturtle. Who use this junior instrument?
[03:18] <kjcole> Yagisan, it was, under Fedora, but it isn't now (unless I've messed up when copying files from the old system to the new.)
[03:19] <kjcole> Yagisan, we're also behind the campus-wide firewall, but that doesn't block ssh -- unless they've changed something again without telling the community.  (Wouldn't be the first time.)
[03:20] <kjcole> Anyway, the sense I'm getting here is that the setup isn't anything unusual to get it working.  So, let me poke around and see what I learn.
[03:21] <ogra> you can also use "scp -r . server:/path ", but that will copy the whole tree everytime ...
[03:27] <Yagisan> re
[03:27] <mhz> okis
[03:27] <mhz> Bye to you all!
[03:27] <mhz> see you tomorrow
[03:28] <mhz> have nice sunday rest of day
[03:28] <Yagisan> bye mhz, tel me how milk battle was!
[03:28] <ogra> Yagisan, http://www.slug.org.au/ btw ...
[03:28] <kjcole> ogra, that's what I've been doing.  But I want others to be able to push without opening my little office server to the world.  (I had an unfortunate incident many years ago when I opened up the machine to someone off campus that I thought I could trust.  That mistake ended up with the FBI hauling off my computer.)
[03:28] <Yagisan> thanks ogra:
[03:29] <ogra> oh, i wouldnt do that 
[03:29] <kjcole> ogra, so, it's made me a bit shy of such things.
[03:29] <ogra> i'd just maintain a local branch and merge the changes locally, to push it later
[03:29] <Yagisan> kjcole: ouch
[03:29] <ogra> has the advantage of someone having the control over the tree ...
[03:30] <ogra> at least for development i find it  veryimportant that one guy is the master and reviews the changes that go in
[03:30] <ogra> not sure about doc work though
[03:32] <kjcole> OK.  Well, I'm gonna run off now.  Later all.
[03:35] <Yagisan> ogra: slugs website doesn't make it obvious where the meetings are :(
[03:35] <ogra> poke jdub 
[03:35] <ogra> he'll tell you
[03:38] <ogra> hehe
[04:05] <ogra> doesnt dvdrip have such an option ? 
[04:07] <Yagisan> ogra: I've just found that via google, so I'm reading the docs now
[04:11] <Yagisan> ogra: it seems dvdrip wants to ssh to the clients, that may be problematic
[04:11] <ogra> just set up a aahd ...
[04:11] <ogra> sshd
[04:30] <Yagisan> oh happy happy joy joy dvdrip can't find it's dependencies :(
[04:32] <ogra> most likely it needs transcode and friends ...
[04:32] <Yagisan> but they downloaded too
[04:34] <feria> hi all
[04:34] <Yagisan> G'day feria
[04:35] <feria> I ve been reading bout edubuntu and is great.... 
[04:39] <feria> #edubuntu-es is alone, are there a contact for the spanish version?  I Can contribute with translations...
[04:40] <feria> doh! MauricioHernandez en [MAILTO]  mhz@tecnocimiento.cl si hablas castellano.
[04:40] <feria> sorry
[04:40] <ogra> feria, edubuntu is developed inside of ubuntu ... so rosetta is the place for translations
[04:40] <ogra> http://www.launchpad.net/
[04:42] <feria> is a great idea, the kids are the future :)
[04:43] <feria> there are no live cd version yet?
[04:47] <ogra> see http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
[04:49] <feria> thanks ogra :)
[05:11] <jelkner> orga: have you seen (or heard) from mauricio (mhz) recently?
[05:12] <ogra> he was here this morning ...
[05:12] <ogra> until late afternoon
[05:12] <ogra> but said goodbye for the rest of the day 
[05:12] <jelkner> in his time zone, it isn't even noon yet ;-)
[05:13] <ogra> he came in 13:30 UTC and left 16:30 UTC it seems ...
[05:14] <jelkner> ok, i'll catch him wednesday morning
[05:14] <jelkner> we had a great time yesterday at tennants and workers united
[05:14] <ogra> nice 
[05:14] <jelkner> 6 new ubuntunteros
[05:15] <jelkner> all spanish sqeaking women
[05:15] <jelkner> we went on the ubuntu-es channel
[05:15] <ogra> and met mhz  ?
[05:15] <jelkner> no, he wasn't there
[05:15] <jelkner> that's what i want to ask him
[05:15] <ogra> (there is edubuntu-es as well btw (see topic))
[05:15] <jelkner> if he could join us next time
[05:16] <jelkner> oh
[05:16] <ogra> he runs it
[05:16] <jelkner> that would be even better
[05:16] <jelkner> we should meet there
[05:16] <jelkner> they are all newbies
[05:16] <ogra> thats fine ;)
[05:16] <jelkner> so we need some folks who wouldn't mind talking to newbies
[05:16] <jelkner> cool
[05:16] <jelkner> ok, on another topic
[05:17] <jelkner> kevin and i are here to work on the book
[05:17] <ogra> i dont mind talking to newbies, but somehow my spanish is nonexistent ;)
[05:17] <ogra> yep
[05:17] <jelkner> i'll hit you up when we have german newbies
[05:17] <jelkner> which i will have soon
[05:17] <ogra> send them to #edubuntu-de :)
[05:17] <jelkner> (actually german student newbies)
[05:17] <jelkner> cool!
[05:18] <jelkner> they are both new to ubuntu and new to german
[05:18] <ogra> hehe
[05:18] <jelkner> ok, bzr...
[05:18] <ogra> i could teach them both i guess
[05:18] <jelkner> cool
[05:18] <jelkner> i'm thinking of getting a virtual server to host the book
[05:19] <ogra> oh, a complete server ?
[05:19] <jelkner> yeah
[05:19] <ogra> isnt that a bit much for one branch ? 
[05:19] <jelkner> it would cost 7.99 per month
[05:19] <jelkner> i could set it up until launchpad is ready
[05:19] <ogra> i think launchpad will be ready during this dev cycle, its just not ready *nw*
[05:19] <jelkner> (so only a few months)
[05:19] <ogra> *now
[05:19] <ogra> probably even weeks
[05:20] <jelkner> we can cancell the virtual machine any time we want
[05:20] <ogra> i saw the supermirror runnung locally at ubz
[05:20] <jelkner> so we'll only be out a few buck
[05:20] <jelkner> bucks
[05:20] <jelkner> anyway, can we check back with you if we have trouble getting bzr to work
[05:21] <ogra> sure 
[05:21] <ogra> for the normal usage thats fine, if it comes to bugs or deeper internals, #bzr is the better bet
[05:21] <jelkner> understood
[05:21] <highvoltage> hi ogra!
[05:22] <ogra> what i said to kjcole already, 
[05:22] <ogra> you should maintian the branch rather locally
[05:22] <ogra> to have some control about the commits
[05:22] <ogra> and only have one person who is the central master and megres the different branches
[05:23] <ogra> hey highvoltage :)
[05:23] <ogra> at least thats what i do with code, to examine the changes first
[05:24] <highvoltage> ogra, I know I've asked you before (probably more than once), but where do I get the teacher control panel, formally known as teachertool from again?
[05:24] <ogra> highvoltage, either as package in dapper or from my bzr branch
[05:24] <highvoltage> s/formally/previously
[05:24] <ogra> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/student-control-panel-0.1/
[05:24] <ogra> i worked out the vnc implementation spec last week...
[05:25] <ogra> i'll code it the next time i have some spare time that i can spend on it
[05:26] <highvoltage> cool, downloading now via APT
[05:26] <ogra> so the only missing bit is to work out a sane approach for remote execution of commands, which is the most tricky bit to make securely
[05:26] <highvoltage> my ISP went down about two weeks ago too, so now the only internet access i have is through GPRS :(
[05:26] <ogra> all other stuff is cosmetical ..
[05:26] <ogra> gah
[05:26] <ogra> thats bad
[05:27] <highvoltage> sounds almost impossible from a security point of view.
[05:27] <ogra> btw, did you see the release announcment ? 
[05:27] <highvoltage> no, I didn't.
[05:27] <ogra> i thought that for vnc as well, but i think i found a half way secure implementation now
[05:27] <highvoltage> which release announcement?
[05:28] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
[05:28] <ogra> probably also intresting for jelkner ^^^
[05:28] <ogra> but it went to edubuntu-devel anyway
[05:29] <highvoltage> oh yes, and to make things worse, my TSF e-mail account is IMAP only, and my @ubuntu address forwards there, IMAP over GPRS isn't far from ideal. i'm going to get a launchpad admin to redirect it to a pop address for me, then i'll be able to stay up to date with email again.
[05:29] <ogra> hmm you need a launchpad admin for this ? 
[05:29] <ogra> doesnt it work through the UI ?
[05:30] <highvoltage> nope :(
[05:30] <highvoltage> it just uses the e-mail address you registered with, you can't choose it yourself.
[05:30] <ogra> bah
[05:30] <ogra> #launchpad willhelp
[05:34] <highvoltage> yep, i've asked there and they said i should hold on for an admin.
[05:34] <ogra> yay
[05:34] <highvoltage> at least i don't need bandwidth to test edubuntu. i'll go to work tomorrow and fetch the iso
[05:43] <lucasvo> good evening!
[05:43] <lucasvo> jelkner: ping
[05:48] <highvoltage> good evening lucasvo 
[05:49] <lucasvo> what can one do with a iBook G4 ?
[05:50] <ogra> lucasvo, sell it to me for a cheap price for example :)
[05:50] <ogra> or test edubuntu powerpc ;)
[05:51] <lucasvo> ogra: I don't know, I bought it for 50.- but it had a broken display backlight, I combined it with mine, which had a broken logicboard
[05:51] <lucasvo> ogra: I will try install it
[05:51] <ogra> great... see the "known" problems section in the release announcement
[05:52] <lucasvo> ogra: just read it/
[05:55] <highvoltage> bbl...
[05:57] <lucasvo> ogra: if I download your bzr archive, can I change it and make a patch, which you may or may not apply?
[05:57] <ogra> make your change, commit it and upload the whole tree somewhere ... then i can merge it
[05:58] <lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$ bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/
[05:58] <lucasvo> bzr: ERROR: URLError instance has no attribute 'code'
[05:59] <ogra> hmm, funny
[05:59] <ogra> orks fine here
[06:00] <ogra> *works
[06:00] <ogra> i'm just pullin it
[06:02] <ogra> ask in #bzr what this could be 
[06:02] <lucasvo>   command: '/usr/bin/bzr' 'get' 'http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/'
[06:02] <lucasvo>       pwd: u'/home/lucasvo'
[06:02] <lucasvo>     error: exceptions.AttributeError
[06:02] <lucasvo>   at /usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/bzrlib/transport/http.py line 146, in get()
[06:02] <ogra> but here it works flawless
[06:02] <lucasvo>   see ~/.bzr.log for debug information
[06:02] <lucasvo> lucasvo@lama:~$
[06:02] <ogra> no idea, sorry, i'm only bzr user
[06:03] <ogra> trying it here works fine as i said 
[06:03] <ogra> its just getting revision 138
[06:04] <lucasvo> lol
[06:04] <lucasvo> it works now
[06:04] <ogra> what was the prob ? 
[06:04] <lucasvo> fetch revision
[06:04] <lucasvo> k.a.
[06:05] <lucasvo> it may be a crappy internet connection
[06:05] <lucasvo> (wifi)
[06:05] <ogra> hmm
[06:05] <ogra> ah
[06:05] <ogra> here too
[06:05] <lucasvo> hm, no
[06:05] <lucasvo> it didn't work
[06:05] <ogra> ogra@honk:~/testldm $ bzr get http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/
[06:05] <ogra> Branched 219 revision(s).
[06:05] <ogra> ogra@honk:~/testldm $
[06:05] <ogra> worked fine
[06:05] <lucasvo> when I pull an archive there comes an error: http://pastebin.com/469076
[06:06] <ogra> as i said, no idea about the bzr internals.... ask in #bzr it works fine here
[06:06] <ogra> do you have a proxy ? 
[06:06] <lucasvo> I actually wanted to post it in #bzr :D
[06:06] <lucasvo> no I don't
[06:07] <ogra> can you browser the url ? 
[06:07] <ogra> -r
[06:07] <lucasvo> yes
[06:08] <ogra> strange
[06:08] <ogra> probably the log shows more info ...
[06:23] <lucasvo> Err http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com dapper/universe Sources
[06:23] <lucasvo>   Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[06:23] <lucasvo> Failed to fetch http://ch.archive.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/dists/dapper/universe/source/Sources.gz  Sub-process gzip returned an error code (1)
[06:30] <fitzwillie> Anyone available to give a first time installer a hand with some problems?
[06:30] <ogra> fitzwillie, you read the install notes page from the opic ? 
[06:30] <ogra> *topic
[06:31] <fitzwillie> ogra: I've read everything I can get my hands on, espeically serching for the particular errors I'm getting, and no luck
[06:31] <ogra> so whats your prob ? 
[06:33] <fitzwillie> After starting the install, I am repeatedly getting some variation on "Invalid Compressed Format (err=2)" or "CRC Error" - I have done a checksum on my download, and re-burnt my disk at 2x to make sure it's not one of those causing it
[06:33] <fitzwillie> and I've tried every mix of the switches suggested in the help menus
[06:33] <ogra> there is also a media check on the CD ... it runs qite long, but checks every sector on the burned disk
[06:34] <fitzwillie> Can I run that from the boot prompt?
[06:34] <ogra> either use expert install or go "back" at every point of the installation 
[06:34] <ogra> it will drop you into a menu
[06:34] <ogra> near the bottom there is "media integrity check"
[06:35] <fitzwillie> I don't even get to that menu (okay, I did once, and can't repeat how I did it).  it hands up on "Uncompressing Linux" at the very start
[06:35] <ogra> probably your CD rom doesnt like the media ... i have an apple around that only boots from certain media
[06:36] <fitzwillie> heh, that would be just my luck.  Though I've tried two different types of CD media.
[06:36] <ogra> i found exactly on out of five types i have that boots on it ...
[06:37] <ogra> *one
[06:37] <fitzwillie> ack.  almost makes this not worth it.  I don't think I have the patience to try and find out which type of CD will work :(
[06:39] <fitzwillie> ahh well, thanks anyway.  I'll go try something else.
[06:40] <ogra> what kind of HW is that ? 
[06:41] <fitzwillie> P3, 266mhz, 3gb HD, 160mb ram
[06:42] <ogra> sounds fine ...
[06:42] <ogra> and the CDRom ?
[06:42] <fitzwillie> haven't sorted that out specifically - looked around the bios but couldn't determine the specific
[06:43] <ogra> scsi or ide ? or any weird kind of soundblaster driven kind ? 
[06:43] <fitzwillie> ide
[06:43] <ogra> ah, k
[06:45] <fitzwillie> ogra: thanks, gotta run for now... may try this again over the xmas break :)
[07:30] <lucasvo> ogra: this document is invalid, as it is written in the command above: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/client/themes/default/color
[07:31] <lucasvo> ogra: you forgot to define : background = "#ffffde"
[07:31] <ogra> works fine here 
[07:31] <lucasvo> ogra: I mean in the comment :D
[07:32] <lucasvo> ogra: you didn't mention the background attribute
[07:32] <lucasvo> # Values known by ldm:
[07:32] <ogra> oh, yes, it was a last minute commit :)
[07:32] <lucasvo> #ronja Theme: Edubuntu < in the edubuntu theme :D
[07:33] <lucasvo> em I mean NOT in the edubuntu theme, instead in ubuntu theme
[07:33] <ogra> ah, yeah
[07:33] <MrMazda> ogra: u still need https://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuFlight2Announcement looked at by a native tongue?
[07:33] <lucasvo> http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/ldm/client/themes/Ubuntu/colors
[07:33] <ogra> MrMazda, nope, its out now ...
[07:33] <ogra> i had some people at #ubuntu-devel looking at it
[07:34] <ogra> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/edubuntu-devel/2005-December/000927.html
[07:34] <ogra> :)
[07:35] <lucasvo> ah, Jonathan ridell changed quite a lot :D
[07:35] <ogra> yup
[07:36] <ogra> together with Colin Watson ...
[07:36] <ogra> who is our walking spellchecker :)
[07:36] <lucasvo> :D
[07:37] <lucasvo> it was an old bzr version :P
[07:37] <lucasvo> that's why bzr didn't work
[07:37] <lucasvo> ogra: what version are you using/
[07:38] <ogra> the daily builds
[07:39] <lucasvo> ah, and what is in dapper?
[07:39] <lucasvo> is dapper a daily builds?
[07:39] <ogra> i dont think so
[07:39] <ogra> not sure whats te default 
[09:00] <lucasvo> hi kjcole 
[09:01] <kjcole> Hi,
[09:07] <lucasvo> one should split up #ubuntu into sevaral channels, it is too crowded
[09:08] <highvoltage> it is quite crowded.
[09:08] <lucasvo> one can not talk normally in there
[09:08] <highvoltage> that could also be said for most IRC channels ;)
[09:09] <lucasvo> not really, for e.g. edubuntu
[09:09] <lucasvo> at least there is #ubuntu-kernel & #ubuntu-devel
[09:10] <lucasvo> maybe #ubuntu-network
[09:10] <lucasvo> would be good, to talk about wifi and other network issues
[09:10] <lucasvo> or #ubuntu-hardware to talk about h/w support
[09:41] <lucasvo> anybody around?
[09:46] <MrMazda> me here
[09:48] <lucasvo> MrMazda: you are a teacher?
[09:48] <lucasvo> MrMazda: do you have kids in school who work with pc?
[09:48] <MrMazda> just have 1 10 year old
[09:49] <lucasvo> I just talked to my brother about it, he is 11
[09:49] <lucasvo> I am trying to find out what they do with PC in school
[09:49] <lucasvo> for e.g. he said they use firefox, they have their own user
[09:50] <MrMazda> mine now at cousin's on Christmas holiday
[09:50] <lucasvo> do they have pc at school?
[09:50] <MrMazda> her class has 1 Mac & 3 PC
[09:52] <MrMazda> plus lots in the lab & libarary
[09:52] <MrMazda> plus lots in the lab & library
[09:55] <lucasvo> and what educational software do they have?
[10:00] <lucasvo> ogra: my sister just started up in xfce, her reaction was: Cool, was ist das? kann ich das behalten? 
[10:00] <ogra> hehe
[10:00] <lucasvo> I did apt-get install xubuntu-desktop
[10:00] <lucasvo> and so now default is xfce
[10:01] <lucasvo> I think one should include xfce to edubuntu
[10:01] <lucasvo> or at least make a GUI for changing this setting
[10:02] <lucasvo> but now keyboard layout doesn't work anymore :(
[10:05] <ogra> you have a gui for that, its called synaptic
[10:06] <ogra> and xubuntu-desktop will be in main in dapper ... and thus on the DVD
[10:06] <ogra> the CD has no space left at all
[10:06] <lucasvo> :D
[10:07] <lucasvo> ogra: I mean, how to set default wm
[10:07] <lucasvo> ogra: isn't there something like ltsp-admin?
[10:07] <ogra> ope, dont touch it
[10:07] <ogra> thats for the old ltsp and breaks ours completely
[10:07] <lucasvo> ogra: but isn't there a gui for ltsp?
[10:07] <ogra> nope
[10:08] <lucasvo> hm, ok
[10:08] <lucasvo> in that case one should make one
[10:08] <ogra> not yet... and its unlikely the one i started will make dapper
[10:08] <lucasvo> maybe for dapper +1
[10:08] <lucasvo> aha,
[10:08] <lucasvo> so you did start one
[10:09] <ogra> look in my bzr archive ...
[10:10] <chevy> buying a new ethernet card for my PC to get it working with edubuntu . . other than avoiding 3Com, any specific suggestions?
[10:11] <a-865> cheap realtek works for me
[10:11] <lucasvo> ltsp manager?
[10:12] <lucasvo> http://rom-o-matic.net/5.4.1/etherboot-5.4.1/src/bin/NIC
[10:12] <lucasvo> ^^ list of working cards with etherboot
[10:12] <chevy> thanks
[10:13] <MrMazda> no idea
[10:13] <lucasvo> ogra: is it ltsp-manager?
[10:13] <ogra> yup
[10:14] <ogra> nah, look for PXE based cards and you wont need silly bootfloppies
[10:14] <ogra> the rom-o-matic list is exactly the list of cards you dont want if you buy a new one anyway
[10:15] <ogra> PXE cards lie around 15 ...
[10:15] <ogra> or 10 pound ...
[10:15] <ogra> chevy, ^^^
[10:17] <lucasvo> PXE doesn't need any bootrom?
[10:17] <ogra> nope
[10:17] <chevy> ogra . . how's it going
[10:17] <chevy> yep still looking!
[10:18] <ogra> chevy, all fine, thanks :)
[10:18] <chevy> 10 is a lot for an ethernet card!
[10:18] <ogra> what the normal price in the uk ? 
[10:19] <ogra> you might get them cheaper 
[10:20] <chevy> about 4
[10:20] <lucasvo> ogra: do you know why keyboard is not working in xfce
[10:20] <chevy> markets flooded with 10/100s
[10:20] <lucasvo> chevy: but not the ones with pxe
[10:24] <ogra> lucasvo, no idea ... janimo is in -devel, he's the xfce maintainer ... and crimsun is somethimes here .. he'S the other one
[10:27] <chevy> thanks ogra lucasvo
[11:09] <lucasvo> ogra: ping