| mdke | ok sure | 12:04 |
|---|---|---|
| mdke | i'll do it now, thanks littlepaul | 12:04 |
| mdke | you subscribed to -doc? | 12:04 |
| littlepaul | great | 12:05 |
| littlepaul | not yet :) | 12:05 |
| === mdke gasps | ||
| littlepaul | mdke, but http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-doc.mbox/ubuntu-doc.mbox is in my evolution | 12:06 |
| mdke | ah great | 12:06 |
| mhz | re | 12:07 |
| littlepaul | wb mhz | 12:07 |
| mhz | LaserJock: good idea. Actually I had some doubts if people would like the idea so asking in the ML's is nice. | 12:08 |
| mhz | littlepaul: thx :) | 12:08 |
| mdke | i'll write something up | 12:08 |
| littlepaul | mdke, thx | 12:09 |
| littlepaul | mdke, is it possible to organize such a "brainstorming" session on the ml; the involved people could give useful hints about the school idea | 12:11 |
| mdke | yes | 12:11 |
| mdke | littlepaul, what is your real name? | 12:12 |
| littlepaul | Andreas Brunner | 12:12 |
| mdke | thanks | 12:13 |
| mdke | are you the same as ompaul? | 12:13 |
| littlepaul | no | 12:13 |
| mdke | :) | 12:14 |
| littlepaul | just littlepaul, a potential ubuntu-doc-school pupil | 12:14 |
| mdke | :D | 12:15 |
| mdke | would you envisage the school idea to be (a) a general talk about how the docteam is organised and how to get involved, or (b) a specific talk about the tools, or (c) both | 12:16 |
| littlepaul | both; but for the first session the answer fits to a :) | 12:17 |
| littlepaul | you could naturally make report regarding a and start with directly with b | 12:18 |
| mdke | heh | 12:19 |
| mdke | i'm not convinced we'd be very good at (b) | 12:19 |
| mdke | it's kinda learn-as-you-go | 12:19 |
| littlepaul | sure... | 12:20 |
| LaserJock | hmm, I'm starting to wonder if it would be possible to set up some kind of common framework for these -school type ideas | 12:23 |
| mdke | hehe | 12:23 |
| LaserJock | I think they are nice for people wanting to contribute | 12:23 |
| littlepaul | LaserJock, could you specifiy your thought? | 12:24 |
| mdke | ok posted | 12:29 |
| LaserJock | well, if there is going to be stuff like doc-school and motu-school maybe there is enough commonality that they could share some stuff. For instance, maybe make a wiki page that has places for people to sign up to "teach" classes or maybe what people want to see. Maybe a common calendar and it would be good to try to maybe work on some of the communication tools, etc. Then people interested in contributing to Ubuntu can g | 12:29 |
| mdke | LaserJock, we saw up to "contributing to Ubuntu can g" | 12:30 |
| LaserJock | ...go to a central place and then see what's going on. | 12:31 |
| LaserJock | sorry | 12:31 |
| mdke | np | 12:31 |
| mdke | you have to take a breath :) | 12:31 |
| littlepaul | LaserJock, mdke thx for your interest :) | 12:31 |
| LaserJock | I mean, what is hard for many people wanting to contribute is to really see at a glance what is going on and where things are taking place | 12:31 |
| littlepaul | the common framework could be moodle :) | 12:32 |
| LaserJock | littlepaul: well, I helped with motu-school so I think the idea is good. The only thing I see is that MOTU is much bigger | 12:32 |
| LaserJock | littlepaul: I've never heard of moodle, it looks really cool. That is kinda what I was thinking about | 12:34 |
| littlepaul | LaserJock, moodle is maby someday in edubuntu | 12:34 |
| mdke | LaserJock, ubuntu.com/community/participate? | 12:35 |
| littlepaul | LaserJock, I think that ubuntu has some important columns; some of this columns: motu and doc; because motu is big there is a need to enhance also doc :) | 12:36 |
| LaserJock | mdke: right, I think that we need to launch from ubuntu.com/community/participate to how to get involved in those areas, what is currently going on, how to get trained, etc. | 12:37 |
| mdke | sure | 12:38 |
| mdke | the wiki is an obvious place | 12:38 |
| littlepaul | all this steps conduct someday to the ubuntu certification (lpi++) program | 12:38 |
| LaserJock | something like moodle would be really nice, but I think it would be quite some work. | 12:39 |
| littlepaul | LaserJock, "moodle" could evolve to something important like "launchpad/melone" for the community - in one year or so :) | 12:41 |
| LaserJock | littlepaul: sure, just need to get sabdfl to crack the whip ;-) | 12:42 |
| littlepaul | hehe | 12:43 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: the advantage to putting all in moodle is that the work would really only need to be done oncwe | 12:45 |
| littlepaul | Burglaptop, good point | 12:46 |
| LaserJock | right, that is very very important | 12:46 |
| LaserJock | I have been helping people learn to package and I have to go over the same stuff over and over | 12:47 |
| mdke | what is moodle? | 12:49 |
| LaserJock | mdke: www.moodle.org | 12:49 |
| mdke | nm, checking website | 12:49 |
| Burglaptop | mdke: it is education and python | 12:50 |
| LaserJock | it's in Ubuntu | 12:50 |
| Burglaptop | mdke: sabfdl drools over it | 12:50 |
| mdke | i can immagine | 12:50 |
| littlepaul | http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MainInclusionReportMoodle | 12:50 |
| Burglaptop | sorry, moodle is php but early versions were python | 12:52 |
| Madpilot | whois Madpilot | 12:52 |
| Madpilot | bleh... /me is not paying attention, and can't type... | 12:53 |
| Burglaptop | Madpilot: a bloody hell, my nick is unregged, just a sec | 12:53 |
| LaserJock | I would think you would know ;-) | 12:53 |
| Madpilot | LaserJock: was trying to remember what a regged nick looked like vs an unregged one :) | 12:53 |
| LaserJock | lol | 12:53 |
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| LaserJock | I wonder how hard it would be to get moodle going for these -schools | 12:57 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: you need to get php past elmo | 12:57 |
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| Burglaptop | bloody xchat-gnome | 12:59 |
| LaserJock | hmm, seems like it's hard to get anything past elmo ;-) | 12:59 |
| Madpilot | elmo is PHP-phobic? | 12:59 |
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| Burglaptop | any sane sys admin is php phobic | 12:59 |
| LaserJock | hmm, well are there any moodle alternatives? | 01:03 |
| mdke | the wiki? | 01:04 |
| LaserJock | probably, at least to begin with | 01:04 |
| littlepaul | LaserJock, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Managed_learning_environment | 01:07 |
| LaserJock | littlepaul: cool, thanks. lots there | 01:09 |
| littlepaul | http://www.edutools.info/course/compare/byproduct/index.jsp nice comparison site :) | 01:10 |
| littlepaul | gtgn, thx for talking :) | 01:13 |
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| LaserJock | hmm, there are some none PHP moodle-like apps | 01:19 |
| Burglaptop | none with the market share and developers than moodle has behind it | 01:20 |
| jsgotangco | hey ho | 01:21 |
| Burglaptop | salut jsgotangco | 01:22 |
| LaserJock | ok, well I gotta go but I might have to think about this moodle idea | 01:25 |
| jsgotangco | hey Burglaptop how's work and life? | 01:26 |
| Burglaptop | jsgotangco: not bad | 01:27 |
| mhz | LaserJock: I got back from tea time and read your posts on schools.. I agree with you | 01:30 |
| mhz | Burglaptop: Moodle is very good | 01:30 |
| mhz | Burglaptop: but you can also make Moin very good for learning instances | 01:31 |
| jsgotangco | mhz, blah :) | 01:31 |
| mhz | after all, the importance is focused on Content rather than a tool | 01:31 |
| mhz | jsgotangco: hehehe, it's true. moin is already there and we use maybe 60% of its potential only | 01:32 |
| mhz | and we don't have to worry about php sec. issues | 01:32 |
| jsgotangco | yeah | 01:33 |
| LaserJock | hmm, well maybe I should give some thought to what the best way to help potential Ubuntu contributors learn what they need to get plugged into various teams | 01:33 |
| jsgotangco | i'd still go the moodle route though, its well established already on this regard | 01:33 |
| jsgotangco | It *Just Works* (TM) | 01:34 |
| mhz | yup, Moodle is very good. Also, we could use eXeLearning | 01:34 |
| mhz | integration | 01:34 |
| mhz | OR, we could use InterWiki feature to 'sync' content on diff Wiki servers | 01:34 |
| mhz | and maybe even include the WikiLearn concept | 01:35 |
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| theCore | LaserJock, hi | 06:06 |
| LaserJock | hi theCore | 06:07 |
| theCore | the yelp fix is awsome :-) | 06:08 |
| theCore | do you know about it ? | 06:08 |
| LaserJock | wich one? | 06:09 |
| theCore | the <xsl:import href="../../gettext/gettext.xsl"> one | 06:09 |
| LaserJock | theCore: I saw it, I haven't tried it out yet | 06:10 |
| LaserJock | I just got yelp to not segfault on me | 06:10 |
| theCore | lol | 06:10 |
| theCore | sudo gedit /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/common/db-{title,xref,label}.xsl | 06:11 |
| theCore | then remove the <xsl:import href="../../gettext/gettext.xsl"> line | 06:11 |
| theCore | and yelp will be speed up by 200% | 06:11 |
| LaserJock | ok, just a sec. I gotta load up my vnc connection | 06:12 |
| LaserJock | hmm, that is nice | 06:16 |
| theCore | there's no need for shipping html, with that fix | 06:17 |
| jsgotangco | yes | 06:17 |
| theCore | except maybe for having a search tool | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | we get printing though | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | heh | 06:19 |
| LaserJock | well, search is coming for yelp isn't it? | 06:19 |
| theCore | jsgotangco, that true | 06:19 |
| theCore | :) | 06:19 |
| jsgotangco | LaserJock, there is no upstream patch for such at the moment, just printing and yelp speedups | 06:20 |
| jsgotangco | speeding up yelp alone is a major breakthrough | 06:20 |
| LaserJock | http://blogs.gnome.org/view/shaunm/2005/12/16/0 says that 2.14 will do search | 06:21 |
| jsgotangco | previous versions had some simple search | 06:22 |
| jsgotangco | at least we can say the itch was addressed due to something that doesn't work in ubuntu | 06:23 |
| === jsgotangco is still docbook crack fiend | ||
| LaserJock | lol | 06:24 |
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| LaserJock | mhz: got done with the dishes? | 06:34 |
| mhz | yup | 06:34 |
| mhz | everything here is manual | 06:34 |
| mhz | :) | 06:34 |
| === jsgotangco also manually washes dishes | ||
| LaserJock | yeah, I am lucky to have a dish washer | 06:35 |
| LaserJock | although it is so crappy I sometimes wonder if I should do it by hand | 06:35 |
| mhz | we couldnt use dish wahser in my family. AFAIK, they consume too much energy and we -humans- need to save energy :) | 06:36 |
| jsgotangco | it doesn't clean as well compared to doing it by yourself unless you are a very crappy washer from the start :) | 06:36 |
| mhz | lol! | 06:36 |
| Madpilot | I wait until the counter vanishes, then do dishes... :P | 06:36 |
| jsgotangco | Palmolive and a sponge is all you need heh | 06:36 |
| mhz | indeed | 06:36 |
| LaserJock | Madpilot: I would do that but my wife doesn't agree ;-) | 06:37 |
| mhz | we should have ubuntu-housekeepers | 06:37 |
| LaserJock | lol | 06:37 |
| Madpilot | I'm actually trying to breed self-washing dishes, so all that stuff on the counter is actually experiments, not a mess! :P | 06:37 |
| LaserJock | I'm sure we could arrange a mailing list ;-) | 06:37 |
| mhz | LaserJock: we can cry there | 06:37 |
| mhz | happily | 06:38 |
| mhz | and jsgotangco could recommend some creams and stuff | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | hah | 06:38 |
| mhz | for hands | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | its not like i do it everyday :P | 06:38 |
| LaserJock | I just wish housekeeping could be a cron job | 06:38 |
| mhz | oh | 06:38 |
| === jsgotangco is not really into hand creams and lotions | ||
| mhz | lol | 06:38 |
| mhz | LaserJock: if it were a cron job we'd be scrwed | 06:38 |
| jsgotangco | oh well we're bordering already to offtopic anyways | 06:39 |
| mhz | on a second thought... I think i dont have a cron for housekeeping but i do have a daemon running after me, chasing me... my-wife | 06:39 |
| LaserJock | have any of you seen Mark's talk at debconf 5? | 06:39 |
| LaserJock | mhz: I agree | 06:40 |
| mhz | LaserJock: i bet | 06:40 |
| LaserJock | I just watched the .mpeg of his talk and I think it should be required or something for ubuntu-user subscribers | 06:41 |
| Madpilot | LaserJock: link for that? | 06:42 |
| mhz | please | 06:42 |
| Madpilot | meh... two days until the next CC meeting, and they **still** haven't fixed a time for it... | 06:43 |
| LaserJock | a direct link is http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2005/debconf5/mpeg/2005-07-14/02-Ubuntu_Talk-Mark_Shuttleworth.mpeg but it is over 100 MB | 06:44 |
| LaserJock | or 200MB I mean | 06:44 |
| Madpilot | broadband is wonderful :) | 06:44 |
| LaserJock | oh, yeah. I download 4 talks | 06:44 |
| LaserJock | Mark's was the longest though | 06:44 |
| LaserJock | 1hr11min I think | 06:44 |
| mhz | Madpilot: what if time were rotating 3 hours every meeting? | 06:45 |
| LaserJock | but it seems to me that a lot of the arguments on ubuntu-users and elsewhere would be greatly reduced if people just watched his presentation | 06:45 |
| Madpilot | mhz: not sure what you mean? | 06:46 |
| mhz | let's say last meeting was 12 UTC, then next meeting should be 15 UTC | 06:46 |
| mhz | and so on | 06:46 |
| Madpilot | ah, OK | 06:46 |
| Madpilot | I think it would just confuse people, to be honest :) | 06:47 |
| mhz | so, we'd know already | 06:47 |
| LaserJock | mhz: I don't think that would happen because the CC wouldn't care to get up that early | 06:47 |
| mhz | hehehehe | 06:47 |
| Madpilot | or stay up that late... | 06:47 |
| Madpilot | jsgotangco: what time (local) is 1700Z, btw? | 06:47 |
| theCore | LaserJock , lol it's a mepg video, isn't ubuntu should use free formats? | 06:49 |
| LaserJock | oh, there is oggtheora too | 06:49 |
| LaserJock | but I'm on Windows right now so I got the .mpeg | 06:49 |
| theCore | LaserJock, feeew | 06:49 |
| LaserJock | http://wiki.debian.org/?DebConf5Talks is the page that has all the links though | 06:49 |
| mhz | indeed | 06:50 |
| mhz | I loved the logo! | 06:50 |
| Madpilot | http://meetings-archive.debian.net/pub/debian-meetings/2005/debconf5/ogg_theora/368x288/2005-07-14/ | 06:51 |
| Madpilot | ogg videos there ^^^ | 06:51 |
| theCore | i had already found it, but thanks | 06:51 |
| === LaserJock is downloading "Package Management and Revision Control, A wedding" presently | ||
| theCore | LaserJock, Package Management ? hmm, i must get that video too | 06:58 |
| LaserJock | Mark talks about how packaging over time really is like branches in a revision control system. He was talking about the possibility of running the packaging using baz or something to that effect | 07:00 |
| LaserJock | I suspect that might be what this talk is about but I don't know | 07:00 |
| jsgotangco | Madpilot, that's 3am on my side and probably around 5am on rob's | 07:01 |
| jsgotangco | oh wait that's only 2am | 07:02 |
| Madpilot | jsgotangco: yeah, I just figured that out - sorry, for some reason I was thinking 1700Z was only about midnight in your part of the globe! | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | Madpilot, you can always refer to timeanddate anyways =) | 07:03 |
| jsgotangco | i could tolerate such meetings till 2am i guess but it'll be much harder for those in au | 07:04 |
| Madpilot | so even the 1400Z meetings start at 2300 local for you, right? | 07:06 |
| jsgotangco | right | 07:06 |
| jsgotangco | thats still early for me | 07:06 |
| theCore | Mark seem nervous on that video ... | 07:10 |
| LaserJock | well, it is a Debian conference. There are still quite a few people that don't really appreciate Ubuntu. | 07:11 |
| theCore | lol, that's true | 07:12 |
| mhz | 'just quite a few' :D | 07:12 |
| theCore | good night, all! | 07:39 |
| jsgotangco | night | 07:39 |
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| Madpilot | interesting - Mark did seem a bit jumpy all thru that talk at debconf... | 08:30 |
| LaserJock | Madpilot: have you seen other talks by him? | 08:39 |
| Madpilot | some short videos from UBZ | 08:40 |
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| Madpilot | not sure if they're still available somewhere, but he's noticably more relaxed in the UBZ stuff | 08:41 |
| LaserJock | oh, I have never seen any other talk by him so I didn't notice it much | 08:41 |
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| littlepaul | a thought about all the logfiles (people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ and http://netz.smurf.noris.de/logs/freenode/2005/) arround. I think there is much unused potential. A webfrontend that searches through this logfiles would help to raise the relevance of the included content | 01:47 |
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| === mdke considers unsubscribing from sounder | ||
| mdke | blimey it is heavy stuff | 08:10 |
| LaserJock | what is heavy? | 08:11 |
| mdke | the incessant long posts about anally retentive subjects | 08:12 |
| Burglaptop | welcome to a sign of a maturing community | 08:12 |
| mdke | _maturing_? | 08:13 |
| Burglaptop | we have lots of people and some of them like to listen to themselves post | 08:13 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| mdke | some of the posts are pretty interesting, others are just a pita | 08:14 |
| Burglaptop | sweet, daf is back | 08:16 |
| === mdke sighs again at sounder | ||
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| LaserJock | man, I just don't understand what they are even arguing about, if they are | 08:37 |
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| mdke | no, as burg says, just loving the sound of their own voice | 08:41 |
| Burglaptop | I used to be really bad for that fault, so I have a good idea how to spot it | 08:45 |
| mdke | lol | 08:45 |
| Burglaptop | if you listen to Madpilot, I still am | 08:48 |
| === Burglaptop wonders if it is a bad thing that a relative is involved in my hobby | ||
| === mdke listens to Madpilot | ||
| mdke | where is Rob these days? | 08:50 |
| mdke | >_< | 08:50 |
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| jjesse | afternoon :) | 08:59 |
| LaserJock | hello | 09:00 |
| LaserJock | jjesse: you run KDE, right? | 09:00 |
| jjesse | yup | 09:00 |
| LaserJock | cool, I'm doing irc from Konversation right now | 09:00 |
| jjesse | both breezy and dapper | 09:00 |
| jjesse | version of kubuntu | 09:00 |
| LaserJock | I thought I would take the plunge and try KDE out | 09:01 |
| LaserJock | on Ubuntu at least | 09:01 |
| jjesse | its a lot better then gnome :P | 09:01 |
| LaserJock | I used to use it on SuSE and Gentoo | 09:01 |
| Burglaptop | jjesse: arguable | 09:01 |
| Burglaptop | I am going stircrazy stuck in this house | 09:01 |
| jjesse | Burglaptop: i know i was being sarcastic | 09:01 |
| jjesse | Burglaptop: to each thier own | 09:01 |
| LaserJock | Burglaptop: how long do you have to be there? | 09:02 |
| LaserJock | I tried Kubuntu once in Hoary and it didn't seem that great | 09:02 |
| jjesse | alot of chnages have taken place | 09:02 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: until I recover, several days at least | 09:02 |
| Burglaptop | jjesse: NO, everybody much use the one true desktop! ICEWM!!! | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | Burglaptop: well, I hope you recover quickly | 09:03 |
| jjesse | one desktop to rule them all... | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | Burglaptop: arrgghhh, I hate ICEWM | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | only FVWM | 09:03 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: it is going well, but the operation took 45 minutes in what should have been 10 | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | or maybe Openbox for the light hearted | 09:03 |
| LaserJock | Burglaptop: that's no good. My mom had surgery on Friday. She will be recovering over our Christmas vacation | 09:04 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: ouch. Thanks to the powers of the neighbours internet and Canonical's laptop, I can continue to do work while stuck here | 09:05 |
| LaserJock | Burglaptop: are the Canonical laptops good? I have heard about them but I don't know the specs. | 09:06 |
| mdke | every on is different | 09:06 |
| mdke | on/one* | 09:07 |
| mdke | otherwise there would be no point testing em ;) | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | yeah, but do the spend lots of money on them or are they cheapos | 09:07 |
| LaserJock | I just wondered. It is a cool idea | 09:07 |
| mdke | varies i guess | 09:08 |
| mdke | see LaptopTestingTeam on the wiki | 09:08 |
| LaserJock | My wife has a laptop but I don't think she would like me putting Ubuntu on it. | 09:08 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: mine is a low-end business model | 09:09 |
| mdke | sure she would :) | 09:09 |
| === Burglaptop brings out his sales and marketing wonk hat | ||
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: it is not that hard. Simply find out what annoys her about using the computer and then match the features of Ubuntu to that "pain". That is the value you can sell | 09:10 |
| Burglaptop | either that or break her XP install | 09:11 |
| Burglaptop | that worked for Madpilot | 09:11 |
| mdke | mine lappy is nice /me hugs laptop | 09:11 |
| Burglaptop | other than the battery life (1.5 hours), mine is great too | 09:12 |
| LaserJock | I think the problem is that I would be taking over her laptop too much. ;-) | 09:13 |
| LaserJock | "Honey, I just need to test one more thing and then you can surf Ebay." | 09:13 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: I would handle that objection by saying you will need to do less work on the laptop overall | 09:14 |
| Burglaptop | less to make it Just Work, that is | 09:14 |
| LaserJock | I think it would be better for me to go with, " I need to buy a new laptop so that I don't take over yours all the time" | 09:15 |
| mdke | i find Ubuntu a lot more productive than windows | 09:15 |
| LaserJock | mdke: I certainly don't, I just spend all my time doing Ubuntu work and not real work ;-) | 09:15 |
| LaserJock | but that's my problem | 09:15 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| LaserJock | and now my one Ubuntu box at work is going to be replaced with an iMac so it will be interesting to see how much I will be able to test stuff. | 09:17 |
| jjesse | LaserJock: dual booting is easy to setup, then one day jsut forget to boot back to windows and see if she complains :) | 09:17 |
| mdke | stick Ubuntu on that too | 09:17 |
| LaserJock | mdke: not that easy. I need quite a bit of software for my reasearch that is only on Mac or Windows :( | 09:18 |
| mdke | change research | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | lol | 09:18 |
| jjesse | LaserJock: i'm in the same position as you | 09:18 |
| jjesse | need a lot of windows only software at work | 09:18 |
| LaserJock | I'm 4 years into my PhD. I don't think I'm going to abandon it for Ubuntu. I will definately still be working, I just need to move some stuff around | 09:19 |
| LaserJock | I think I will set up my Ubuntu box at home and then ssh and vnc to it from the iMac | 09:19 |
| LaserJock | We just need Ubuntu to take over the science field and then it will be better. | 09:21 |
| mdke | what software is it that is the blocker? | 09:22 |
| LaserJock | Right now a lot of people are moving from Windows to OSX. I hope they will then move from OSX to Ubuntu ;-) | 09:22 |
| LaserJock | mdke: usually data collection and analysis. For me at least | 09:22 |
| mdke | why haven't the geeks written linux versions? | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | mdke: because we are doing research not programming | 09:23 |
| mdke | brb | 09:23 |
| LaserJock | I think that is the essential problem. Scientist might be willing to write a program for there specific need but it is usually not very good for general use | 09:24 |
| LaserJock | as Helen Faulkner said at Debconf5 many linux developers think that scientist should be allowed to write programs :-) | 09:25 |
| LaserJock | s/should/shouldn't/ | 09:25 |
| LaserJock | part of the problem I suppose is also that science is generally well funded | 09:27 |
| LaserJock | my boss has no problem dropping $300/person on data analysis software | 09:28 |
| LaserJock | even though he his a dedicated linux user (couldn't use Windows to save his life) he find OSX to be easier and more productive for him. | 09:29 |
| LaserJock | of course the most recent linux experience he had was with Fedora Core 1 running FVWM so ... | 09:30 |
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: I feel sorry for him | 09:35 |
| LaserJock | I do too, but now he thinks OSX is wonderful because he can do the linux things that he was used to but also run MS Office, etc. | 09:36 |
| === manicka [n=grant@203-158-39-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burglaptop | OS X is both our greatest blessing and our greatest curse | 09:39 |
| LaserJock | I agree | 09:39 |
| Burglaptop | hmm, the beeb article is wrong about the IE stuff | 09:41 |
| Burglaptop | they state that 1 in 10 websites don't work with FF, but forget to mention that some of those websites only work on IE on windows, not on Mac | 09:41 |
| mgalvin | dang, ok enough, ubuntu under attack -> trash | 09:48 |
| Burglaptop | ugh, lack of namespaces in our wiki pisses me off, again | 09:48 |
| mgalvin | gesh | 09:48 |
| LaserJock | Burglaptop: how so? | 09:50 |
| === manicka [n=grant@203-158-39-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| Burglaptop | LaserJock: very hard to see what is a doc, what is person, etc. | 09:52 |
| LaserJock | ahh, I see. | 09:52 |
| Burglaptop | makes sorting RecentChanges a painful exercise | 09:52 |
| LaserJock | yes I suppose | 09:53 |
| === mpt [n=mpt@201-1-130-105.dsl.telesp.net.br] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| bshumate | Burglaptop: did I read you right yesterday, in that you're borrowing your neighbor's WiFi access? if so, how do you give it back when you're done? ;-) | 10:09 |
| bshumate | Burglaptop: did you just jump on their open access point then? i mean do your neighbors know you're using it? | 10:10 |
| === littlepaul [n=littlepa@p5084CBD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #ubuntu-doc ["...] | ||
| Burglaptop | bshumate: I just jump on their open access point | 10:17 |
| Burglaptop | and no, they don't know i am using it | 10:17 |
| === theCore [n=theCore@Toronto-HSE-ppp3776044.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc | ||
| jjesse | i can get my neighbors upstairs in the bedroom | 10:19 |
| Burglaptop | jjesse: I didn't know you had it in you! | 10:20 |
| jjesse | grin i only do it once in awhile | 10:22 |
| mdke | all the neighbours here have closed APs | 10:22 |
| jjesse | have to be in a specfic location | 10:22 |
| mdke | grrrr | 10:22 |
| bshumate | isn't that essentially stealing though? i mean aren't there laws against this kind of thing? | 10:23 |
| mdke | _sharing_ | 10:23 |
| mdke | it's the open source way | 10:24 |
| === mdke digs out mako's blog post about it | ||
| Burglaptop | bshumate: likely but it is pretty harmless theft | 10:24 |
| mdke | blimey mako needs a search engine on his blog | 10:26 |
| mdke | http://mako.cc/copyrighteous/reflections/20050730-00.html | 10:26 |
| theCore | Burglaptop, if the guy, that you suck the internet, has bandwidth limit, it can be harmful to him | 10:26 |
| bshumate | "harmless theft"? i tend to think theft is theft. sounds unethical to me. sharing is more apt to involve both parties knowledge. i know if you were "sharing" my electricity from my house without my knowledge, I'd sure not be happy about it! | 10:26 |
| Burglaptop | but in Canada you don't pay by the bit | 10:27 |
| Burglaptop | you pay a flat cost, ergo I don't cost them anything | 10:27 |
| theCore | Burglaptop, it debend of your ISP | 10:28 |
| mdke | bshumate, i'd argue that them leaving the AP open is consent to you using it | 10:29 |
| bshumate | hmmm... the article doen't seem to make any good points. | 10:29 |
| mdke | for the pure reason that people need to get smarter | 10:29 |
| mdke | sure the article makes good points | 10:29 |
| bshumate | in the case of the access points specifically, both parties should be held accountable....the owner for leaving it open, and the person who uses it without permission. | 10:29 |
| Burglaptop | theCore: yes, but both Shaw and Telus charge a flat rate up to an extremely high cap | 10:29 |
| mdke | Every time my Internet connection at home goes down, I take advantage of one my neighbors APs. To balance things out, I make sure I always run an open AP for others out my home. | 10:29 |
| mdke | doing so is about being a good neighbor | 10:30 |
| Burglaptop | kamion runs a dual network, an open AP for the world and a closed AP for him | 10:30 |
| bshumate | mdke: so long as everyone understands that to be the arrangement, then i am fine with that...that *is* sharing | 10:30 |
| bshumate | but to just take, without the other party's knowledge, is theft really. | 10:30 |
| mdke | i really don't think it's a big deal | 10:31 |
| bshumate | interesting nonetheless. | 10:31 |
| Burglaptop | bshumate: as mdke can tell you, part of the test for theft is how much damage you have cost the person you stole from | 10:32 |
| mdke | heh | 10:32 |
| mdke | not in our law :) | 10:32 |
| mdke | you guys obviously changed it :p | 10:32 |
| Burglaptop | Canuck law is an odd hybrid of US, UK and French law | 10:32 |
| bshumate | Burglaptop: so you are stating that morally, it is ok to steal a penny, but not a hundred bucks? | 10:33 |
| Burglaptop | bshumate: nope | 10:33 |
| mdke | depends on who you steal if from | 10:33 |
| bshumate | Burglaptop: but the "damage" is different, is it not? | 10:33 |
| Burglaptop | bshumate: I am saying that my use doesn't cost them anything and thus does not damage them | 10:33 |
| mdke | Gates isn't gonna miss it | 10:33 |
| bshumate | mdke: ohhhhh... | 10:33 |
| bshumate | mdke: interesting angle / philosophy there. ;-) | 10:34 |
| Burglaptop | nor do I engage in illegal activities with their connection | 10:34 |
| mdke | not really | 10:34 |
| mdke | its a fairly uncontroversial aspect of morally to focus on the damage done to others | 10:34 |
| bshumate | mdke: it is the classic "Robin Hood" mentality towards theft, actually... | 10:34 |
| mdke | yes | 10:35 |
| mdke | as i said, uncontroversial | 10:35 |
| mdke | everyone agrees that Robin Hood was not an immoral man, except for the leotards | 10:36 |
| Burglaptop | mdke: the leotards are arguable as well | 10:36 |
| mdke | LOL | 10:36 |
| bshumate | mdke: heh heh | 10:36 |
| mdke | Burglaptop, did you say you had a _girl_friend? | 10:36 |
| mdke | omg they are still at it on sounder | 10:38 |
| bshumate | interesting, and enlightening chat, fellows. | 10:38 |
| Burglaptop | mdke: I do indeed have a girl friend. Madpilot can even verify that | 10:38 |
| bshumate | what is this sounder business? | 10:38 |
| mdke | bshumate, a mailing list @lists.ubuntu.com | 10:38 |
| bshumate | ahhh, | 10:38 |
| mdke | so Burglaptop | 10:41 |
| mdke | i started writing a slimmed down about-ubuntu.xml | 10:41 |
| jjesse | i take it sounder is a high traffic mailing list? | 10:41 |
| mdke | really short, it looks pretty boring but i might commit it and you can have a go at it | 10:41 |
| mdke | jjesse, not that high... but it can get painful to read | 10:42 |
| jjesse | ah i don't need another list like that | 10:42 |
| Burglaptop | mdke: I can take a look at it, but I have very little concentration right now, due to pain | 10:42 |
| theCore | sometime there are good tips that show up | 10:43 |
| mdke | Burglaptop, :( you don't have to look now | 10:43 |
| theCore | like the one about yelp that mdke sended | 10:43 |
| mdke | on sounder??? | 10:43 |
| theCore | mdke, the tip about how to speed up yelp | 10:44 |
| mdke | maybe on -doc? | 10:45 |
| theCore | yes | 10:45 |
| Burglaptop | the yelp speedy up stuff is being discussed upstream | 10:47 |
| mdke | and one of the devs posted it on our list | 10:49 |
| theCore | Burglaptop, i made the fix on my yelp, it's wonderful how yelp is fast :) | 10:49 |
| mdke | theCore, really, it works well? | 10:49 |
| mdke | that is awesome news | 10:49 |
| theCore | mdke, it's like magic | 10:49 |
| mdke | Burglaptop, committed | 10:49 |
| mdke | ok, we may have to abandon the "shipping in html" then | 10:50 |
| mdke | if we haven't already :) | 10:50 |
| theCore | but yelp still support for searching and printing | 10:50 |
| theCore | still need* | 10:51 |
| mdke | it has printing | 10:51 |
| mdke | in dapper | 10:51 |
| theCore | good | 10:51 |
| mdke | and search, if you use beagle | 10:51 |
| theCore | mdke, did you fix it on your system? | 10:54 |
| mdke | not yet | 10:54 |
| theCore | get it a try | 10:55 |
| theCore | s/get/give/ | 10:55 |
| theCore | sudo gedit /usr/share/xml/gnome/xslt/docbook/common/db-{title,xref,label}.xsl | 10:55 |
| theCore | then remove <xsl:import href="../../gettext/gettext.xsl"/> | 10:55 |
| theCore | it's around the 24 line | 10:55 |
| theCore | it's located* | 10:56 |
| mdke | ahhhh that is awesome stuff | 10:56 |
| mdke | but presumably, they'll need to figure out another way to replace whatever it is that gettext.xsl was doing | 10:57 |
| === bshumate marvels at the quality entertainment that is "Ubuntu is under attack" on the sounder list | ||
| LaserJock | mdke: I seemed to me that what they said was that the gettext.xsl calls were redundent because is was called elsewhere | 11:00 |
| bshumate | should call it the "cacophony" list ;-) | 11:01 |
| mdke | bshumate, you are obviously a masochist :) | 11:01 |
| mdke | LaserJock, i didn't follow the discussion closely, you might be right | 11:01 |
| theCore | mdke, gettext.xsl wasn't doing anything in those files ... | 11:02 |
| bshumate | mdke: naw naw...just fascinated with the sociology of it all really. | 11:03 |
| mdke | ;) | 11:03 |
| mdke | it's not always that bad | 11:04 |
| theCore | macgyver2, the problem was that yelp imported it 4 times | 11:04 |
| === mdke nods | ||
| mdke | obviously dapper is gonna be rocket fast in every respect :) | 11:04 |
| LaserJock | yeah, good response, fast boot, quick help, it should be a great release | 11:09 |
| mdke | GNOME feels faster to me too | 11:10 |
| LaserJock | KDE is feeling pretty snappy today for me | 11:10 |
| mdke | cool | 11:11 |
| theCore | with such fix there's no need to upgrade my PC ;) | 11:11 |
| theCore | i will just need to install dapper | 11:11 |
| LaserJock | theCore: lol, but think how fast it would be with an upgraded computer ;-) | 11:11 |
| mdke | twice as fast | 11:12 |
| theCore | LaserJock, yea, but my celeron 533 is doing the job for me | 11:12 |
| LaserJock | I've got an AMD 1800+ but will be getting a new iMac G5 after Christmas for work | 11:17 |
| LaserJock | those G5's are pretty fast | 11:17 |
| theCore | mdke, actually it would be more like 4 or 6 time faster | 11:17 |
| theCore | LaserJock, least compatible though | 11:18 |
| LaserJock | theCore: yeah, but I can't do anything about that | 11:18 |
| LaserJock | have any of you had any experience running Kate in gnome? | 11:20 |
| theCore | LaserJock, it worked well for me when I was on FreeBSD | 11:20 |
| LaserJock | unfortunately, I really like Gnome but I really like some KDE apps | 11:21 |
| LaserJock | Amarok has worked ok from me in Gnome so far. It takes longer to load but that isn't a big deal | 11:22 |
| LaserJock | but I also like Kate, Kile, Kontact, Akregator, and Konsole | 11:23 |
| mdke | what is akregator? | 11:23 |
| LaserJock | a RSS reader | 11:24 |
| theCore | ok I gotta go, I'm going to do bike ride outside at -17 degree celsius with 40 centimeter of snow, it's gonna be a fun ride :) | 11:24 |
| mdke | theCore, good luck! | 11:24 |
| LaserJock | theCore: stay warm ;-) | 11:24 |
| LaserJock | hmm, that was a fast 20 | 11:44 |
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