[03:57] <Liz> jsgotangco: 
[03:57] <jsgotangco> Liz!!!!
[03:58] <Liz> :)
[03:58] <Liz> may i pm you?
[03:58] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:23] <jsgotangco> robitaille, http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20051219#2
[04:23] <jsgotangco> heh
[04:24] <jsgotangco> file it under idiot users dept.
[04:25] <robitaille> "dumb down" and "idot" seem to be the words of the week in Ubuntu-Land
[04:26] <Madpilot> Linus's comments were last week, actually ;)
[04:26] <robitaille> ok...last 7 days :)
[04:26] <jsgotangco> bleah obviously the mini article is just a personal troll
[04:27] <robitaille> why did he didn't do "apt-get install gcc" and be done with it????  
[04:27] <robitaille> I don't get it...
[04:27] <Madpilot> doesnt't build-essential have all that compiling stuff in it?
[04:27] <jsgotangco> if youre going to package...
[04:27] <robitaille> yes.  and build-essential will install "gcc", and gcc is at 4.0 in Breezy
[04:28] <robitaille> unless you want to compile the kernell then you probably want gcc-3.4
[04:28] <jsgotangco> oh wait
[04:28] <jsgotangco> he installed 3.x
[04:28] <jsgotangco> haha
[04:28] <jsgotangco> i just noticed it now
[04:28] <jsgotangco> he'll get creamed
[04:29] <robitaille> maybe I should send an email to te sounder list with it :)
[04:42] <Burglaptop> robitaille, jsgotangco, think I should write a rebuttal?
[04:42] <jsgotangco> sure
[04:43] <jsgotangco> he obviously wrote it as a troll
[04:44] <Burglaptop> yes but trolls on major news sites need answering
[04:44] <jsgotangco> yes
[04:47] <Burglaptop> I think I shall focus on where we are going with dapper, rather than directly answering him
[04:48] <Burglaptop> robitaille: do you have a default debian install?
[04:48] <Burglaptop> does a default debian install come with build-essential installed?
[04:49] <jsgotangco> afaik it doesn't even on the base install cd
[04:50] <robitaille> http://packages.debian.org/build-essential
[04:50] <Burglaptop> I will need to make certain that is correct before I write my rebuttal
[04:50] <bshumate> Burlaptop: where is this troll?! i need it for my thesis!
[04:50] <bshumate> eyurgh *Burglaptop*
[04:51] <Burglaptop> bshumate: tab completion is your friend
[04:51] <robitaille> I keep thinking I should install a debian install on my computer...
[04:51] <bshumate> Burglaptop: shnikes!
[04:51] <bshumate> even in gaim it appears to function!
[04:53] <bshumate> Burglaptop: so where is the troll in this major news site? upon which topic does the sub-bridge-dweller write?
[04:53] <jsgotangco> bshumate, yes
[04:53] <Madpilot> http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20051219#2
[04:53] <jsgotangco> about gcc
[04:55] <robitaille> Burglaptop,  I would ask on #ubuntu-devel or #debian.  Someone must know if gcc comes on by default with a default debian installation. (last time I install Debian was Woody 2 years ago)
[04:55] <jsgotangco> ask -devel
[05:03] <bshumate> woweee...lots of free operating systems ship without a compiler, or development tools of any sort-  or some make you select a "Developer" subset of components to install them. it is somewhat sad that his apt-get install gcc didn't leave him with a sane environment, but where's the "dumbing down" part come in?
[05:04] <Burglaptop> bshumate: that was his follishness
[05:06] <jsgotangco> thats great editing at work
[05:06] <bshumate> I believe that fine chap Kevin Cole who recently laid the smack down upon me with his high quality UNIX beard would say something like :  it's "Linux for Humans" non?  not "Linux for Developers" 
[05:07] <Burglaptop> possibly first para (pasting dump)
[05:07] <Burglaptop> Ubuntu is going to piss some people off. It is also going to make some people love us. That is ok. Ubuntu strives to be the best Linux distribution in existant (Does not every distribution?). We have clear goals and clear objectives. We are opinionated. We make choices, bold choices and sometimes stupid choices, but we make them. This is no different than any other distribution out there. It is just that sometimes ours are a lit
[05:07] <Burglaptop> tle more bold more out there.
[05:07] <Madpilot> WTF is a "high quality UNIX beard"?
[05:08] <bshumate> it's awesome
[05:08] <bshumate> a quality gnu/linux distribution
[05:09] <jsgotangco> won't you get noticed as a computer lovin' redneck?
[05:10] <whiprush> Burglaptop: a well thought out blog post should do the trick
[05:10] <Burglaptop> whiprush: currently working on it now
[05:10] <Burglaptop> then I tell osnews, etc. about it
[05:11] <bshumate> Burglaptop: yes, but is it of this scope and scale?  :   https://wiki.ubuntu.com/KevinCole   Now THAT is a high-quality UNIX beard!
[05:11] <bshumate> no offense to Mr. Cole at all of course.  I happen to sport a junior sized beard myself.
[05:12] <whiprush> Burglaptop: sounds like the guy just needs to be told about build-essential. No big deal, it's on the CD and well documented.
[05:12] <Burglaptop> whiprush: we need to answer it because it hit distrowatch
[05:12] <Burglaptop> whiprush: it is more we need to address his hidden objections
[05:13] <whiprush> like I say in my talks. The tools are available for experts willing to read the documentation.
[05:13] <whiprush> IMO if the user needs to compile something then we've already failed at that task.
[05:14] <whiprush> but yeah, I see what you're trying to say.
[05:15] <Burglaptop> and the whole "ubuntu/gnome dumbed down stuff"
[05:15] <whiprush> yeah
[05:15] <whiprush> but that's just the flavor of the month.
[05:15] <Burglaptop> the way I am wording it will sort of move beyond the debate
[05:16] <whiprush> there's a silent majority of people who just want their stuff to work. :) 
[05:16] <whiprush> and we try to provide that.
[05:18] <bshumate> "Ubuntu dumbed down.  Recently, the new version of Ubuntu GNU/Linux, 8.10 "Enigmatic Emu" was found to have no terminal applications, nor command-line shell environments at all.  Only graphical environments on X further indicating a conspiracy by Microsoft to dumb down this popular distribution."
[05:18] <Burglaptop> bshumate: you need to go one further
[05:18] <Burglaptop> we simply won't ship an X server or DE
[05:18] <Burglaptop> nor any tools, nor a kernel
[05:18] <whiprush> I deal with people like this every day at work.
[05:19] <whiprush> "I can't root. I can't do foo ..."
[05:19] <whiprush> just a bit of patience and some guidance goes a long way.
[05:20] <Burglaptop> clear communication of the goals also helps
[05:20] <whiprush> I can feel the frustration though, sometimes I want to drive their heads through a wall, but commmunication does the trick.
[05:20] <whiprush> right
[05:20] <whiprush> what you just said. :)
[05:21] <bshumate> Burglaptop: ship the documentation though!!!
[05:21] <bshumate> cause EVERYONE reads THAT!!! ;-P
[05:21] <Burglaptop> bshumate: yes, all you get are docs telling you how you should go outside because you dont need a computer
[05:22] <whiprush> Burglaptop: blog soon though, I've been giving it alot of thought and want to do the same and I don't want to collide posts on planet. :)
[05:22] <Burglaptop> whiprush: should be up within the hour
[05:22] <whiprush> k
[05:22] <Burglaptop> I would let me talking about the same subject stop you from blogging
[05:24] <Burglaptop> ok, the pain won. I am having more icecream
[05:29] <jsgotangco> wow when i try to update dbus im asked to download a quarter of the size of the distro
[05:29] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:36] <jsgotangco> haha it removed like 80% of gnome functionality
[05:37] <Burglaptop> jsgotangco: the ca. mirror must be behind. I don't have the dbus yet
[05:42] <Burglaptop> whiprush: posted
[05:43] <whiprush> k
[05:48] <robitaille> Burglaptop,  the ca. mirror is always a bit behind.  I always point to the uk mirror on my dapper machine
[05:50] <Burglaptop> robitaille: I am not concerned
[06:29] <jsgotangco> heh oh well
[06:29] <jsgotangco> it definitely screwed my unit
[06:29] <jsgotangco> dbus love =)
[07:06] <Madpilot> the actual time for the next CC meeting *still* hasn't been posted...
[07:08] <jsgotangco> yay we'll be meeting all night
[07:11] <Madpilot> if it's another 1400Z meeting, I can make it but I'd better go to be soon; if it's a 2200Z (or whatever) meeting then I'll be at work...
[07:13] <jsgotangco> are you on queue?
[07:15] <Madpilot> for Membership? No, I've been waiting to see when this next meeting is... ;)
[07:28] <whiprush> Burglaptop: awake still?
[07:29] <jsgotangco> mr. fridge!
[07:30] <robitaille> mr. fridge?
[07:31] <whiprush> no no
[07:31] <whiprush> jdub is mr. fridge
[07:31] <whiprush> I merely stock it.
[07:31] <robitaille> and you are doing a very good job at it
[07:32] <whiprush> nah nah
[07:32] <whiprush> need more content
[07:33] <whiprush> actually ... we need to showcase some docteam work 
[07:33] <rob1> grrr
[07:34] <rob1> the end of the year is so busy for me
[07:34] <rob1> all my free time lately has been devoted to getting my wireless network and media centers set up
[07:36] <whiprush> we're all in the same boat.
[07:36] <whiprush> so much to do, so little time.
[07:37] <jsgotangco> whiprush, would fridge jr. do?
[07:37] <jsgotangco> hehe
[07:37] <whiprush> a college fridge!
[07:37] <whiprush> it'd be all beer. :)
[07:37] <jsgotangco> no no that's not the point
[07:37] <jsgotangco> the point is to spoil the fun
[07:37] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:38] <rob1> mmm.. beer
[07:40] <jsgotangco> whiprush, my desktop is dumber than your desktop hah
[07:40] <whiprush> unlikely.
[07:40] <rob1> jsgotangco, using gnome?
[07:40] <jsgotangco> yes im very stock gnome while whiprush isn't
[07:40] <whiprush> hey, so for fun, at our last lug meeting I took a desktop poll.
[07:41] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:41] <whiprush> 50/50 gnome/kde.
[07:41] <whiprush> All stock wallpapers and desktops.
[07:41] <rob1> its like 80/20 gnome/kde at mine
[07:41] <jsgotangco> i have a bsd desktop here on kde and it ok
[07:41] <whiprush> well, my point was that they all had stock desktops.
[07:41] <Madpilot> whiprush: all stock? where's the fun in that?
[07:41] <rob1> I guess we are all Linux n00bs
[07:42] <whiprush> nah...
[07:42] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, on my part, i just have no time to tweak my desktop
[07:42] <rob1> well, 80% of us
[07:42] <whiprush> jsgotangco: bingo!
[07:42] <Madpilot> tweaking the desktop saves time, though!
[07:42] <jsgotangco> the easiest tweak isa wallpaper change
[07:43] <jsgotangco> Madpilot, and for most part, the default works, and i rarely go to gconf
[07:43] <jsgotangco> although most people coming from windows hate spatial because it reminds them of stock windows95 explorer behavior
[07:44] <whiprush> yeah.
[07:44] <Madpilot> spatial's awful - all those windows popping up everywhere...
[07:44] <whiprush> but, as I've been deploying gnome desktops at work ...
[07:44] <whiprush> I'm starting to find ...
[07:44] <whiprush> that people don't care about things like that
[07:44] <jsgotangco> yes
[07:44] <jsgotangco> as long as they know how to navigate
[07:44] <whiprush> they care about more fundamental things
[07:45] <whiprush> like ... "why can't I print?"
[07:45] <jsgotangco> right
[07:45] <whiprush> "I bought a dvd at the store, I put it in, and it doesn't work."
[07:45] <whiprush> grrr.
[07:45] <jsgotangco> people udnerstand the change with linux on my side
[07:45] <jsgotangco> and they're interested to see the difference
[07:45] <jsgotangco> sure they can make comparisons but it doesnt mean they can't be productive
[07:46] <Madpilot> whiprush: good rant!
[07:46] <whiprush> Madpilot: I like to rant.
[07:47] <whiprush> blog while drunk, it's the best place to be!
[07:47] <jsgotangco> whiprush, the store clerk tells you "dude you're in asia, that's region 3"
[07:47] <jsgotangco> heh
[07:48] <whiprush> To be honest, when linus posted his thing, at work we were like "wow, he can print? dude shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth."
[07:48] <whiprush> I mean, when esr did his gnome rant 2 years ago, he didn't even get that far ...
[07:48] <whiprush> so i guess there's progress being made there. :)
[07:48] <Madpilot> ha... but I did spend a LOT of time on linuxprinting.org before buying my current HP inkjet...
[07:49] <whiprush> well, kudos to hp, I've yet to run into a printer from them that they don't have a linux driver for.
[07:49] <whiprush> recently anyway.
[07:49] <Madpilot> I nearly bought a Canon... bleh!
[07:50] <whiprush> we bought at ricoh at work, bad news
[07:50] <whiprush> rpms for rhel only.
[07:50] <jsgotangco> we bought a brother...bad news too
[07:50] <whiprush> we made it work .. but ...
[07:50] <whiprush> they don't stop by anymore. :)
[07:50] <jsgotangco> what's worse its an all-in-one machine
[07:50] <jsgotangco> they didnt even *ask* me
[07:51] <whiprush> heh
[07:51] <jsgotangco> they got too excited getting a free printer after buying one
[07:51] <jsgotangco> greed
[07:51] <whiprush> the trick is to get a working relationship with the printer guy.
[07:51] <whiprush> "look dude, we run linux, you buy what I tell you. Or you don't get invited to bar night."
[07:52] <whiprush> then after a while the local vendor figures it out.
[07:52] <whiprush> "vote with your dollars" and all that.
[07:53] <jsgotangco> hmm dapper still doesn't get the automount ntfs parition right
[07:53] <whiprush> if only consumers had the same buying power as companies. :-/
[07:54] <Madpilot> en mass, they might - there are twice as many HP printers on the wiki's printer page as any other company...
[07:54] <whiprush> jsgotangco: I've been wrestling with cups all day so i'm kind of picking on it in the blog post.
[07:54] <rob1> try a lexmark.. its hit or miss. 
[07:54] <whiprush> frustration++
[07:55] <jsgotangco> hmm
[07:55] <rob1> the older models work best, my lexmark only just began to start working
[07:55] <rob1> with dapper
[07:55] <whiprush> hey so jerome
[07:56] <whiprush> run this by the doc team dudes for me ...
[07:56] <whiprush> I'd like to start showcasing doc team stuff on the fridge
[07:56] <Madpilot> my former printer was an old Lexmark - Z32 - it was only partly working when I moved to Linux, and I never did get it to print properly...
[07:57] <whiprush> do you guys have like a list of the best ever wiki entries or something?
[07:57] <whiprush> just some good content that I can point people to?
[07:57] <whiprush> like a "best of the wiki" or something?
[07:57] <Madpilot> BasicCommands is good, whiprush
[07:57] <rob1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UserDocumentation is about the only list
[07:57] <whiprush> Madpilot: looking
[07:57] <jsgotangco> DocteamProjects is pretty good =) but im biased
[07:58] <rob1> heh
[07:58] <jsgotangco> so guys
[07:58] <jsgotangco> is it ok if i proofread the docs this weekend
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i won't do any invasive changes
[07:58] <jsgotangco> i'll just make comments to the docs
[07:58] <rob1> sure, but I dunno how the dg is going
[07:59] <whiprush> wow, UserDocumentation rocks.
[07:59] <Madpilot> UserDocs is mostly just "the big list of everything"
[07:59] <jsgotangco> i can look on it, i won't make any big changes, just comments since i didnt start the doc at all
[07:59] <whiprush> Yeah
[07:59] <jsgotangco> i don't want to disrupt the work of other people
[07:59] <jsgotangco> i think it could work if there are some people who review/proofread
[08:00] <whiprush> so hey Madpilot ... what do you think about doing something like "Wiki page of the week" or something?
[08:00] <whiprush> where we do linkage to a certain page...
[08:01] <jsgotangco> Wiki page of the week
[08:01] <jsgotangco> hehe
[08:01] <jsgotangco> how about member spotlight
[08:01] <jsgotangco> Member of the Week: Jorge Castro
[08:01] <whiprush> could do that too.
[08:01] <whiprush> hah
[08:01] <whiprush> that guy's a loser.
[08:02] <rob1> heh
[08:02] <rob1> who is he?
[08:02] <Madpilot> Page of the Week would be interesting - not sure we've got enough really great wiki pages to go for a lot of weeks, though ;)
[08:02] <jsgotangco> some beer loving dweeb i heard
[08:02] <whiprush> yeah
[08:02] <whiprush> he's a drunkard.
[08:02] <whiprush> rob1: he's referring to me. :)
[08:02] <jsgotangco> he only gets good work done when he's drunk!
[08:03] <rob1> ah
[08:03] <rob1> hehe now I get it!
[08:03] <whiprush> So like, when I was doing thin clients at work, this dude wrote up the entire thing on the wiki.
[08:03] <whiprush> Surely we can do a page biweekly or something of really gold wiki content.
[08:04] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/WhatWindowsUsersWant <-- interesting, but messy to look at
[08:04] <jsgotangco> that's a pretty old page
[08:04] <rob1> http://members.cox.net.nyud.net:8090/jmccorm/santa.html
[08:04] <jsgotangco> that's pre-UDU
[08:04] <rob1> hehe drunk santa
[08:04] <whiprush> Can you guys think of a good wiki page that's good quality and relevant to breezy users?
[08:05] <whiprush> or a certain topic I mean.
[08:05] <rob1> RestrictedFormats?
[08:05] <whiprush> hmmm, how about something more general?
[08:06] <Madpilot> media formats is pretty general, isn't it?
[08:06] <rob1> thttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApacheMySQLPHP?action=show&redirect=LAMPForHoary
[08:06] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApacheMySQLPHP <-- simpler URL ;)
[08:06] <rob1> -> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApacheMySQLPHP
[08:06] <rob1> yeah
[08:06] <whiprush> Madpilot: yeah but that gets complicated with different countries and whatnot, I was thinking of getting something easy in first.
[08:07] <whiprush> then move towards more advanced stuff
[08:07] <rob1> what about https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Cedega
[08:07] <whiprush> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NanoHowto
[08:07] <whiprush> too simple?
[08:08] <rob1> maybe
[08:08] <whiprush> oh oh
[08:08] <whiprush> got one
[08:08] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FoldingAtHome
[08:08] <whiprush> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo
[08:09] <whiprush> My line of thought is "Brand new ubuntu user."
[08:09] <Madpilot> that's got to be the most-cited wiki page ever on #ubuntu...
[08:09] <Madpilot> all the "why didn't I get asked for a root pw" questions ;)
[08:10] <whiprush> Madpilot: yeah, but the fridge is more general than that.
[08:10] <whiprush> we're still just getting started
[08:10] <rob1> whiprush, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MultimediaApplications
[08:10] <whiprush> it's linked from the homepage. ie. "my mom doesn't go to #ubuntu"
[08:10] <rob1> very basic, and lots of pics
[08:11] <whiprush> rob1: oh dude now that's what I dig.
[08:11] <Madpilot> pictures are good
[08:11] <whiprush> yeah
[08:12] <rob1> some good links at the top to other more advanced multimedia stuff if people want to know more also
[08:12] <whiprush> this page is exactly the kind of stuff I think would go well on the fridge
[08:12] <whiprush> rob1: exactly!
[08:13] <whiprush> rob1 / Madpilot: So what are the chances you guys can find pages like this on a regular basis. :)
[08:14] <rob1> not all are that good
[08:14] <whiprush> well, we'd have to find the good ones.
[08:14] <Madpilot> whiprush: well, it might inspire more cleanup efforts :P
[08:14] <rob1> Madpilot, maybe
[08:14] <Madpilot> someone recently did a great job on the modem/dailup pages
[08:14] <whiprush> Madpilot: link?
[08:15] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DialupModemHowto
[08:16] <rob1> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RootSudo <- isn't bad as a more advanced one for users switching from other Linux distros
[08:16] <whiprush> rob1: I was thinking the same thing
[08:16] <whiprush> man .. that dialup page is ouch
[08:17] <whiprush> didn't realize we sucked in that area so badly.
[08:17] <Madpilot> whiprush: you should have seen all the pages that one replaced... that was hideous
[08:17] <whiprush> I can imagine
[08:18] <whiprush> I think I'll play it safe and go with rootsudo as a writeup.
[08:18] <whiprush> see how it goes.
[08:18] <whiprush> are you guys cool with pinging me on cool wiki pages?
[08:18] <jsgotangco> I heard wiki.ubuntu.com/JorgeCastro is an awesome page
[08:19] <whiprush> i'd like to get more wiki/docteam content on the fridge ...
[08:19] <whiprush> but i need someone to yell at me with "hey dude, RUN THIS PAGE!"
[08:19] <whiprush> and jsgotangco is busy being a speaking star in his hemisphere ...
[08:20] <jsgotangco> oh drop it will ya
[08:20] <whiprush> heh
[08:20] <Madpilot> whiprush: ask on the mailing list, too
[08:20] <whiprush> ROCK STAR.
[08:20] <whiprush> Madpilot: I will do so.
[08:21] <jsgotangco> whiprush, theres really not much awesome wiki entries out there..but will ping you when something comes out as well as update you on docteam news/meetings we haven't been really good on documenting ourselves lately though
[08:22] <whiprush> well, ideally, if you guys are scrubbing along fixing articles, I'd like to highlight the stuff as it becomes documentation gold.
[08:22] <whiprush> Like, the dude who did the sunray stuff ... is just /awesome/.
[08:23] <rob1> man I must be the only freenode staff member anywhere near my timezone
[08:24] <rob1> just about everyone else is sleeping or been idle for ages
[08:24] <jsgotangco> lots of requests?
[08:24] <rob1> strangly no, and currently I'm the only one listed as online
[08:26] <rob1> gee this is a bit dodgy looking: http://cgi.ebay.com.au/200-FREE-Guaranteed-Make-Money-the-Easy-Way_W0QQitemZ4810436987QQcategoryZ1057QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[08:27] <rob1> there is even a dodgy ebay comment from someone else saying how great it is..
[08:29] <whiprush> ok so fellas, I'll hit up the list tomorrow on fridge-able wiki pages ...
[08:29] <rob1> okie dokie
[08:30] <whiprush> jsgotangco: docteam meta-stories will always be accepted of course.
[08:30] <whiprush> I was mostly asking about normal content.
[08:31] <whiprush> of course I'll run your meeting summaries, calls for help, etc. etc., as usual.
[08:31] <jsgotangco> ok wilco
[08:38] <jsgotangco> err guys
[08:38] <jsgotangco> how would you react if a long time DD is willing to join the docteam?
[08:38] <rob1> DD?
[08:39] <jsgotangco> err
[08:39] <jsgotangco> nevermind
[08:39] <rob1> what the heck is a DD?
[08:39] <jsgotangco> Debian Developer
[08:39] <rob1> oh
[08:41] <robitaille> we would welcome him?
[08:41] <robitaille>  :)
[08:42] <jsgotangco> hmm but he wants to get paid heh that just deflated my spirit
[08:42] <rob1> pfft
[08:42] <jsgotangco> yeah so like i said, nvm
[08:42] <jsgotangco> =)
[08:43] <robitaille> jsgotangco,  see it like the paid-developpers in Ubuntu vs the volunteers/motus/etc
[08:43] <robitaille> if he is paid, then you get a full-time person working on docs.
[08:44] <jsgotangco> robitaille, i think we're doing good as volunteers, if he gets paid/hired, that's a corporate decision
[08:44] <jsgotangco> and makes him a visible target (?) for us
[08:44] <jsgotangco> heh
[08:44] <rob1> my question is how would decisions then be made? does he get the final say?
[08:44] <jsgotangco> nah let's not go there....
[08:45] <robitaille> the doc team makes the final decisions.
[08:45] <robitaille> it just happens that one member can spend 40+ hours a week helping
[08:45] <robitaille> anyway, it's not our decision.
[08:46] <jsgotangco> yep
[08:46] <rob1> I met a guy last week that is going to set me up with some part-time paid doc writing work next year if all goes well
[08:46] <robitaille> but generally I would say more staff from Canonical is more a positive than a negative to help the project as a whole
[08:46] <rob1> it will all be in house stuff though
[08:47] <rob1> and windows apps
[08:48] <jsgotangco> rob1, i can hook you up with some as well
[08:48] <rob1> jsgotangco, sounds good
[08:49] <jsgotangco> rob1, i'm doing some at the moment for iosn (www.iosn.org) but they need more people in our region
[08:50] <rob1> hmm 404 not found
[08:50] <jsgotangco> arrrrgghh
[08:50] <jsgotangco> iosn.net
[08:51] <rob1> is it mainly open source stuff?
[08:52] <jsgotangco> well yeah, its not called IOSN if they sell proprietary stuff
[08:52] <rob1> heh sure
[08:52] <jsgotangco> s/sell/promote
[08:53] <jsgotangco> it may not pay that much compared to other commecial projects but hey its UNDP looks good on your CV
[08:53] <jsgotangco> =)
[08:53] <rob1> yeah
[08:53] <rob1> but still, something is better then nothing
[08:53] <rob1> and your cv
[08:53] <rob1> who do I need to contact?
[08:54] <jsgotangco> well i'll ask sunil first if they need more people
[08:54] <rob1> ok
[08:54] <jsgotangco> i'll let you know soonest
[08:54] <rob1> ok sounds good. thanks jsgotangco 
[08:59] <rob1> hmm about half an hour until the pool is filled up
[08:59] <rob1> yay
[10:56] <jdub> whiprush: ha ha, fridge jr.
[02:21] <jsgotangco> hey all
[02:23] <Kaiser_Away> hi jsgotangco jjesse
[02:23] <jjesse> morning Kaiser_Away 
[02:23] <jsgotangco> Kaiser_Away, good evening
[02:23] <jsgotangco> jjesse, :)
[02:24] <jjesse> morning jsgotangco 
[02:24] <Kaiser_Away> :)
[02:24] <jjesse> jsgotangco: started working on release notes for dapper
[02:24] <jsgotangco> jjesse, yeah i noticed
[02:24] <jsgotangco> do you want me to grok on the kquickguide this weekend? 
[02:24] <jjesse> that would be awesome
[02:24] <jsgotangco> i'm using ubuntu at the moment, but I can easily switch
[02:25] <jjesse> i will be at my in-laws who are basically !internet this weekend so i will have some time to do some editing of docs
[02:27] <jsgotangco> lol so internet is a cause for docteam inactivity
[02:27] <jsgotangco> haha
[02:27] <jsgotangco> =)
[02:27] <OgMaciel> hi guys
[02:27] <OgMaciel> good morning
[02:27] <jsgotangco> OgMaciel, hey dude
[02:27] <jjesse> no activity not inactivity
[02:27] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, how is it going?
[02:28] <jsgotangco> 46 seconds :(
[02:28] <OgMaciel> wow
[02:28] <OgMaciel> which part takes the longest for you?
[02:28] <jsgotangco> ipw2200
[02:28] <jsgotangco> definitely not acceptable
[02:29] <OgMaciel> really?
[02:29] <jsgotangco> i've seen results < 30 seconds
[02:29] <OgMaciel> I have the same wireless card and it is working fine with me
[02:29] <jsgotangco> how long did it take on your side?
[02:30] <OgMaciel> about 20 secs tops
[02:30] <OgMaciel> definitely not 46
[02:30] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:30] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:30] <jsgotangco> that's incredible
[02:30] <OgMaciel> what are you using to benchmark it?
[02:30] <jsgotangco> for any graphical linux system that's really good
[02:31] <OgMaciel> sometimes I kill the network detection script
[02:31] <OgMaciel> that really speends it up
[02:31] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[02:31] <jsgotangco> well ok i guess thats the reason
[02:31] <jsgotangco> mine is just stock
[02:31] <jsgotangco> cheater!
[02:31] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[02:31] <OgMaciel> but what are you using to benchmark it?
[02:31] <jsgotangco> a toshiba set
[02:31] <OgMaciel> but you're not using a stopwatch, right?  ;)
[02:32] <jsgotangco> nah hahaha
[02:32] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:32] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, which program are you using to "time" it?
[02:33] <jsgotangco> isn't bootchart doing that?
[02:33] <OgMaciel> bootchart?  dunno that one
[02:34] <jsgotangco> oh its a new dapper add-on made by Keybuk
[02:34] <jsgotangco> it basically "charts" the boot process and shows how much time its taking for each module/device/etc.
[02:35] <jsgotangco> its pretty neat, you get a png file for the report
[02:35] <OgMaciel> I think I saw it on someone's post on one of the planets
[02:35] <OgMaciel> it is pretty sweet
[02:35] <OgMaciel> was it Frederico?
[02:35] <jsgotangco> not sure
[02:36] <OgMaciel> anyhow, have you heard of anyone having successfully isntalled Dapper on VMWare by any chance?
[02:37] <jsgotangco> i can try later
[02:37] <jsgotangco> i have a windows machine that has an eval of  5.5
[02:37] <OgMaciel> am thinking of giving it a whirl
[02:37] <jsgotangco> i download the 5.04 vm and its pretty sweet
[02:38] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, I haven't tried VMWare on 64 bits but it should be fine
[02:38] <jsgotangco> i haven't tried it myself altough i just bought a dual core system a month ago
[02:39] <OgMaciel> niice
[02:39] <OgMaciel> same here
[02:39] <jsgotangco> maybe this christmas
[02:39] <jsgotangco> hehe
[02:39] <OgMaciel> am only here b/c of the stupid NYC transit strike
[02:39] <jsgotangco> but my wife will kill me
[02:39] <jsgotangco> whoa
[02:39] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[02:39] <OgMaciel> I hear that
[02:39] <jsgotangco> there's a transport strike?
[02:39] <OgMaciel> in NYC
[02:39] <jjesse> yeah started yesterday right?
[02:39] <OgMaciel> all buses/trains/subways
[02:39] <jsgotangco> wow
[02:39] <OgMaciel> today
[02:39] <jsgotangco> even cabs?
[02:40] <OgMaciel> at mid-night
[02:40] <OgMaciel> nope
[02:40] <OgMaciel> not cabs
[02:40] <OgMaciel> but the fares are astronomical
[02:40] <jsgotangco> that's still terrible, is NY on a gridlock at this time?
[02:40] <OgMaciel> pretty much
[02:41] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, I want to help out with the documentation
[02:41] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, can you gimme a quick walk-through?
[02:41] <jsgotangco> sure
[02:41] <jjesse> OgMaciel: is there a specific portion of documentation you want to help w/?
[02:42] <jsgotangco> Ubuntu/Kubuntu?
[02:42] <jsgotangco> Edubuntu
[02:42] <OgMaciel> no preference...  whenever you need help the most
[02:43] <OgMaciel> wherever
[02:43] <OgMaciel> not whenever
[02:43] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:43] <jsgotangco> well i was thinking of something
[02:43] <jsgotangco> since some people started writing from the start
[02:43] <jsgotangco> i wouldnt want to invade their work but still want to help out
[02:43] <OgMaciel> k
[02:43] <OgMaciel> makes sense
[02:44] <jsgotangco> i wouldn't want to disrupt their flow of thought
[02:44] <jsgotangco> so i was thinking of organizing peer reviews
[02:44] <OgMaciel> hummm
[02:44] <OgMaciel> that is an interesting idea
[02:44] <jsgotangco> we still get to edit the doc, but instead, we do it in comments
[02:44] <OgMaciel> it would give them (writers) the freedom to go about their work
[02:44] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:45] <jsgotangco> let's say i grabbed jjesse's work
[02:45] <jjesse> jsgotangco: that is a good idea, a lot of sections in a doc get marked status="review" and i always wondered who did the review
[02:45] <jsgotangco> yes
[02:45] <jsgotangco> its either 1) they just mark it 2) they forgot to change the mark
[02:46] <jsgotangco> for example, i wouldn't dive into bhuvan's current work since he already has a TOC from the start
[02:46] <jsgotangco> but it doesn't mean i can't suggest
[02:46] <OgMaciel> right
[02:46] <jsgotangco> so what i do is that i edit parts of the doc but do it in comments
[02:46] <jsgotangco> so that it doesn't build but its there for him (bhuvan) to notice
[02:46] <jjesse> or you could go through and make comments on the sections flagged for reivew
[02:46] <jsgotangco> right
[02:46] <jsgotangco> exactly
[02:46] <OgMaciel> and the author would then accept them or not?
[02:47] <jsgotangco> im pretty sure the author would accept it
[02:47] <jjesse> that way the maintainer can change them and mark them as complete or whatever the next tag is
[02:47] <OgMaciel> interesting ide
[02:47] <OgMaciel> a
[02:47] <jsgotangco> and people interested in diving in can make a contribution even if its not a writing contribution
[02:48] <OgMaciel> that all sounds good
[02:48] <jsgotangco> if we get to start it, we can have a much cleaner doc in the coming milestone releases
[02:48] <OgMaciel> and it would allow more people to hit the ground running
[02:48] <jsgotangco> right
[02:48] <jsgotangco> the setback though is that
[02:48] <OgMaciel> ?
[02:48] <jsgotangco> 1) you'd still need commit access to edit the doc and upload
[02:49] <OgMaciel> hummm
[02:49] <jsgotangco> 2) or have someone patch it
[02:49] <OgMaciel> which one would be viable?
[02:49] <jjesse> both would be viable, start submitting patches you can get svn commit access
[02:49] <jsgotangco> well there's no problem with some of us, we already have commit access, we just haven't been active in writing lately (others do)
[02:50] <jsgotangco> DOCU REVU
[02:50] <jsgotangco> :P
[02:50] <OgMaciel> jjesse, ok... one question... so far I've only seen the "work in progress" on the web... is that how I should be working?  by reading them and sending in my suggestions via the mailing list?
[02:51] <jsgotangco> OgMaciel, that's not even accurate if you ask me...
[02:51] <jjesse> jsgotangco: i agree, i think the docteamproject page isn't as current as it should be
[02:51] <OgMaciel> hummm
[02:51] <jsgotangco> the status should work, its only a cron job on the server, but i still suspect if its being done regularly
[02:51] <jsgotangco> or maybe the status script doesn't work at all
[02:52] <OgMaciel> I either did not understand the "instructions" on getting started or it is not obvious to me  :/
[02:52] <jsgotangco> well yes
[02:52] <jsgotangco> OgMaciel, actually, we're not so good in documenting ourselves :)
[02:52] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[02:53] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, maybe I could help out once I understand the process
[02:53] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:53] <jjesse> heck sometimes we struggle coming to our own meetings :P
[02:53] <jsgotangco> jjesse, yeah dude i hear ya
[02:53] <OgMaciel> I hear that
[02:53] <jsgotangco> OgMaciel, well ok its a pretty simple process
[02:53] <jjesse> OgMaciel: I started by checking out the source from svn and looking at the docs and just trying to make corrects
[02:53] <jsgotangco> we basically work in DocBook
[02:54] <jjesse> corrections
[02:54] <jsgotangco> you need subversion on your machine so you could checkout a working copy
[02:54] <OgMaciel> jjesse, lemme chek the wiki again...  don't remember reading anything about svn access
[02:54] <jsgotangco> you can download the sources but can't commit
[02:54] <OgMaciel> I see
[02:55] <jsgotangco> so what you do is make a patch
[02:55] <jsgotangco> its terribly tedious at the moment
[02:55] <jjesse> isn't that at w.u.c/DocteamGettingStarted or something likethat?
[02:56] <jsgotangco> i think its in DocteamStepByStepRepository
[02:57] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, not found
[02:57] <OgMaciel> ;)
[02:57] <jjesse> isn't that at w.u.c/DocteamGettingStarted or something likethat?
[02:57] <jjesse> doh
[02:57] <jjesse> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[02:57] <jjesse> thats what i menat :)
[02:57] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[02:58] <OgMaciel> got it
[02:58] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[02:58] <OgMaciel> thanx
[02:59] <OgMaciel> so the first step is to download the files using svn... then I'll start reading and commenting
[02:59] <jsgotangco> yeah
[02:59] <jsgotangco> if you make changes, you can make a patch
[02:59] <jsgotangco> and send it to the list
[03:04] <jsgotangco> try editing the styleguide...its a non-invasive doc that needs some review and editing
[03:05] <OgMaciel> jsgotangco, will do  ;)
[05:31] <jsgotangco> good night
[09:21] <jjesse> mdke: master of the wiki? :)
[09:21] <mdke> lol
[09:21] <jjesse> fear him he's the master of the wiki
[09:22] <OgMaciel> hhe
[09:22] <OgMaciel> hehe
[10:02] <jjesse> so upon becoming a ubuntu member you get a .ubuntu.com email address?
[10:02] <OgMaciel> jjesse, yup
[10:02] <jjesse> so how do i go about getting access to jjesse@ubuntu.com or whatever it is?
[10:03] <OgMaciel> it is supposed to get created automagically
[10:03] <mdke> jjesse, it's automatically your launchpad id
[10:03] <OgMaciel> it gets forwarded to your LP account email
[10:03] <mdke> at the moment changing it is broken
[10:03] <jjesse> ah i didn't know that
[10:03] <mdke> you have to ask a LP admin to change it
[10:04] <jjesse> any other secret handshakes or something that i'm missing as a member?
[10:04] <mdke> lol
[10:05] <OgMaciel> jjesse, atm, lots of patience helps
[10:05] <OgMaciel> hehe
[10:05] <mdke> OgMaciel, patience?
[10:05] <jjesse> OgMaciel: grin im not in a hurry i don't want to be missing out, don't know if someone was supposed to let me know things differently or not
[10:06] <OgMaciel> mdke, been asking elmo to change my email for 5 weeks now
[10:06] <mdke> there is no automatic right to free toys...
[10:06] <mdke> elmo's a busy guy, but I sympathise to an extent ;)
[10:07] <OgMaciel> hehehe
[10:07] <OgMaciel> thanx
[10:07] <OgMaciel> I understand he's got bigger fish to fry
[10:07] <OgMaciel> but it has reached a certain threshold
[10:07] <OgMaciel> for he won't even ackknowledge me
[10:12] <mdke> the more he acknoledges, the more people will ask
[10:13] <mdke> and the more time he loses
[10:14] <OgMaciel> mdke, I meant he didn't reply to my emails...  all he had to do was spend 2 secs to say "fuck off" or something... ;)
[10:14] <mdke> OgMaciel, lol
[10:14] <OgMaciel> ;)
[10:15] <jjesse> anyone following the converstation about the channels in #u-m ?
[10:15] <mdke> OgMaciel, he gets a LOT of mail
[10:15] <mdke> yeah
[10:15] <jjesse> what was the issue?
[10:15] <mdke> no idea
[10:15] <OgMaciel> jjesse, am there..
[10:15] <mdke> people get banned and don't know what to do
[10:15] <OgMaciel> seems to be something between 2 people in here
[10:15] <jjesse> oh well i got lost in the dicussion about bots, centralized organization and someone getting banned :P
[10:15] <jjesse> so i went back to work
[10:17] <mdke> quite right
[10:18] <OgMaciel> got my email squared away
[10:18] <OgMaciel> pheeew
[10:18] <mdke> heh
[10:21] <jjesse> i'm bored bored as well but i'm at work :)