=== doko [n=doko@dslb-084-059-078-022.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Loiosh [n=loiosh@c-67-166-229-59.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has left #Ubuntu-Meeting [] === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === MasterAkux [n=David@adsl-72-50-113-139.prtc.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:14] Anyone know what time the meeting actually is? === MasterAkux is now known as akurashy === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@ubuntu/member/sethkinast] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [02:30] @ what time is community council today? [02:30] I have NO idea [02:30] (or tomorrow for the ones for whom it's tomorrow) [02:30] it's still marked as TBD [02:31] yep [02:31] which is not very useful ;) [02:31] btw, hi Kyral && seth_k|lappy :) === seth_k|lappy wants to come and rip up the Ubuntuforums folk [02:31] hi raphink ^_^ [02:31] seth_k|lappy: down [02:31] how are your packages doing seth_k|lappy ? [02:31] seth_k|lappy: Its mostly resolved [02:31] raphink, I had five uploads yesterday, still waiting on kat b/c of sqlite issues [02:31] raphink, I'm doing bugreports today [02:31] oh great :) [02:31] seth_k|lappy: Arnieboy is just royally PO'd at Seveas [02:31] hug day is on thursday right? [02:33] tch tch [02:33] EVERY day is hug day! [02:33] :P === raphink hugs seth_k|lappy [02:33] "We'll have a Bug day on Thursday, December 21th. The announce will go out to" [02:33] (source : https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuBugDay/Draft ) [02:34] that means hey [02:34] even more hugs on thursday ;) === raphink never really worked on bugs ;) [02:35] you'll need to mentor me on that seth_k|lappy ;) [02:35] btw raphink, what does ichthiux have that makes it ichthiux? I would go to the page, but il est temporairement inaccessible, et je ne sais pas quand il reviendra [02:35] or sommat [02:35] raphink, /me is reading wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/MaloneEmailInterfaceDoc right now [02:35] the website was pirated some time ago :( [02:36] porn images were inserted on it [02:36] -_- [02:36] so I closed the website [02:36] since even changing the password didn't change [02:36] so I guessed it was a security hole in the wiki [02:36] instead we began working on alioth [02:36] which is better, safer [02:37] what does ichthux have that makes it ichthux -> so far not much. The idea is to make is a CDD aimed to christian users and communities [02:37] just as agnula is aimed to musicians for example [02:37] ichthux is aimed to christians [02:37] ;) [02:38] doesn't prevent from installing both CDDs if you're both a musician and a christian ;) [02:38] well I have a Christian band, so I guess I'm both :P [02:38] nice :) [02:38] I havent' been working much on ichthux lately [02:39] but the work I do latley in Ubuntu helps me see how I could improve ichthux [02:39] a big part of it is packaging, for what i'm concerned with [02:39] packaging, tuning [02:40] gathering apps useful for christians, links, settings, graphics, etc. [02:40] and tainting Debian systems with them using packages [02:40] metapackages and tasks mostly [02:41] ending with the release of a CD that would install Debian or Ubuntu with the ichthux task installed by default [02:41] just as Kubuntu installs the kubuntu-desktop task by default [02:42] seth_k|lappy: I consider there's no rush on this project === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@p5487F6AE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bmonty [n=bmontgom@ubuntu/member/bmonty] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === student [n=student@67.64.119.108] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bshumate [n=bshumate@adsl-210-97-121.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bshumate [n=bshumate@adsl-210-97-121.clt.bellsouth.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@67.62.254.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === crisen [n=crisen@spank.terdmonk.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:43] sleep <3 === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === rob1 [n=Robert@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lamont [n=lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-148-187.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ogra [n=ogra@ubuntu/member/ogra] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:robitaille] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 20 Dec, time TBD: Community Council | 21 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Dec 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 22 Dec 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Dec 22:00 UTC: DocTeam === MasterAkux [n=David@66-50-62-79.prtc.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B1CC6.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.41.251] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mvo [n=egon@ip181.135.1511I-CUD12K-01.ish.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === artnay_ [i=artnay@hdr.unk.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === crisen [n=crisen@spank.terdmonk.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === irvin [n=irvin@203.213.220.104] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === ealden [n=ealden@219.90.93.184] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === artnay_ [i=artnay@hdr.unk.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kamion [n=cjwatson@83-216-156-196.colinw664.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === irvin [n=irvin@203.213.220.104] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [11:24] j #ubuntu-ph === Sanne [n=Sanne@p548DB5BB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === irvin [n=irvin@203.213.220.104] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === artnay_ [i=artnay@hdr.unk.fi] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === SloMoSnail [n=slomo@vpn-imt11.uni-paderborn.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kaiser_Busy [n=Kaiser@ppp211-147.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kaiser_Busy [n=Kaiser@ppp211-147.lns1.adl2.internode.on.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === lucasd [n=Lucas@200.209.160.59] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasd [n=Lucas@200.209.160.59] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Fui] === lucasd [n=Lucas@200.209.160.59] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === slomo [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Nikusan [n=Nikusan@hamax4-207.dialup.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === flint [n=flint@69-164-122-221.sbtnvt.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [01:03] god it is early...and the wrong day!!!! [01:04] 8) [01:04] TBD ... [01:06] ah well, back to the grindstone... bye === MarioMeyer [n=meyer@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === segfault [i=carlos@ubuntu/member/segfault] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === MarioMeyer [n=meyer@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucas [n=lucas@alabama.imag.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === OgMaciel [n=omaciel@ubuntu/member/gnukemist] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zul [n=chuck@ubuntu/member/zul] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@ubuntu/member/dholbach] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === thesaltydog [n=Fabio@ubuntu/member/thesaltydog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === arzajac [n=Andrew@modemcable201.119-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:02] ok are we camping for the great CC meet wait? heh [03:02] hehe [03:02] guess so [03:03] nahh its definitely not going to happen =) [03:03] think so? [03:03] I got a friend "running" for membership [03:03] I promissed I'd try to be present [03:03] ;) === MarioMeyer just waiting [03:05] meet meet meet meet meet meet meet [03:05] heh [03:06] meeting is @ TBD [03:06] there's still time [03:06] ;) [03:07] hehehe === OgMaciel clock's big hand is very close to TBD [03:08] well.. if there isn't one today, i think we'll only have one next year [03:08] or we declare a CC junta [03:08] they could call in an emergency meeting [03:08] hehehe [03:08] jsgotangco, mutiny!!! ;) [03:09] ay ay captain [03:14] i don't think that's a good idea... [03:14] =) [03:14] hehe === MasterAkux is now known as akurashy === MarioMeyer [n=meyer@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [03:50] morngin [04:10] hi Kyral === sivang wonders about the random meetings thgat are organized here lately. [04:14] lol === ..[topic/#ubuntu-meeting:Kamion] : Calendar: http://fridge.ubuntu.com/event | Logs: http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs/ | 20 Dec 20:00 UTC: Community Council | 21 Dec 12:00 UTC: Edubuntu | 21 Dec 19:00 UTC: Accessibility Team | 22 Dec 14:00 UTC: Dapper Development Status | 30 Dec 22:00 UTC: DocTeam [04:16] by fiat [04:16] sorry for the short notice [04:16] 20 [04:16] oh well === Kyral shrugs [04:20] cya all in 5 hours === MarioMeyer_ [n=meyer@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bshumate [n=bshumate@adsl-210-97-121.clt.bellsouth.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === bshumate [n=bshumate@adsl-210-97-121.clt.bellsouth.net] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === irvin [n=irvin@203.213.220.104] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === irvin [n=irvin@203.213.220.104] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === dholbach [n=daniel@i577B267C.versanet.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lbm [n=lbm@x1-6-00-13-10-7a-d1-e4.k233.webspeed.dk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === JaneW [n=JaneW@dsl-146-148-187.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === MarioMeyer_ is now known as MarioMeyer === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-40.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === elmo [n=james@83-216-156-21.jamest747.adsl.metronet.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [05:15] hey elmo === cmvo [n=cmvo@62.225.11.174] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === thesaltydog [n=fabio@host242-169.pool8251.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === thesaltydog [n=fabio@ubuntu/member/thesaltydog] has left #ubuntu-meeting ["Leaving"] === Hirion [n=hirion@draugr.de] has left #ubuntu-meeting [] === lucas [n=lucas@83.179.138.106] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lamont [n=lamont@mix.mmjgroup.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === allee [n=ach@allee.exgal.mpe.mpg.de] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === freemanen [n=freemane@c83-248-208-28.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.36.161.235] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [06:53] Is it ok to watch the meeting? [06:54] yup [06:54] all meetings are public [06:55] thanks [06:57] freemanen: beware if you're caught watching a meeting! [06:57] you'll be banned for ever ;) [06:57] hehe [06:57] ;) [06:57] ??? [06:57] j/k [07:01] no worries, the worst that can happen is that you get interessted and spend all your free time helping with ubuntu :) [07:02] yes, its slightly addictive :) [07:10] its like crack === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@ubuntu/member/sethkinast] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === MarioMeyer [n=meyer@ubuntu/member/mariomeyer] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@67.62.254.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Mez [n=Mez@81-179-106-8.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Bonzodog [n=Bonzodog@unaffiliated/bonzodog] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:05] then does the meting start? [08:05] one hour === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@67.62.254.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === manicka [n=grant@203-158-39-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:21] hello all [08:21] hello [08:21] hi [08:22] hey manicka [08:22] Hello all. [08:22] UTC is so evil. === KingBahamut|Work [n=thehighl@eacb01-00-cmmgga-70-34-135-179.atlaga.adelphia.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:23] afternoon all === JanC [n=janc@lugwv/member/JanC] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:23] hey [08:23] hey dad *runs* [08:23] sigh [08:23] :) [08:23] elmo: do you have a second? === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-40.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:24] excellent; forum rep [08:24] darkmatter! === Amaranth [n=travis@ubuntu/member/amaranth] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === akurashy tackle hugs darkmatter === darkmatter hugs akurashy [08:24] 90 minutes? [08:25] 'ello [08:25] 40 minutes Amaranth [08:25] oh yeah, daylight savings time is over === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:26] life was better under GMT [08:26] =) [08:27] not [08:27] lol [08:27] Absolutely.. [08:27] :-) === zenrox hands out rockcandy samples [08:28] Oh for a second there, I thought they were pop rocks. I would've snatched and run! [08:28] nope [08:28] rockcandy [08:29] its kinda like hard candy [08:29] but looks like shale type rock [08:29] rockcandy is drugs here ;) [08:30] deffently not that type of candy === teroedni [n=teroedni@ti411310a080-1162.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucas [n=lucas@d213-103-110-232.cust.tele2.fr] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === akurashy [n=David@66-50-62-79.prtc.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hybrid [n=hybrid@dpc6745217221.direcpc.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-40.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === FLeiXiuS [n=fleixius@67.62.254.201] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === hno73 [n=henrik@henrik.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:54] 6 mins === robotgeek [n=robotgee@digital.celebris.net] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === seth_k|lappy [n=seth@ubuntu/member/sethkinast] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:55] hey seth_k|lappy , i got in before you :) [08:55] robotgeek, yeah, I had to run to work ;) [08:56] hi #ubuntu-meeting [08:56] hello robotgeek [08:56] hi [08:56] hi robotgeek ;) [08:56] 4 min [08:56] errr3 [08:56] :) === jenda [n=jenda@195.47.80.185.adsl.nextra.cz] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [08:57] hey a little chatter before the meeting never hurt anyone [08:57] hi raphink :) [08:57] robotgeek: nope [08:57] hello chatterbox [08:57] not that I know of robotgeek [08:57] =) [08:57] hi seth_k|lappy [08:57] KingBahamut|Work: get off work :) [08:57] :) [08:57] gotta love the countdowns [08:57] robotgeek: until someone gets mad and kills people [08:57] 2 mins [08:57] lol [08:57] stop counting down its annoying [08:57] i cant wate [08:57] lol [08:57] if i yelled "Windows Pwns" would i get in trouble? [08:57] 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... HAPPY NEW YEAR!!! [08:58] rofl [08:58] UHHH [08:58] oops [08:58] hehehe [08:58] OgMaciel: ?? [08:58] hmm [08:58] OgMaciel: not in my time zone [08:58] Let old friend be narry forgottenn...... [08:58] happy new CC !! === hybrid kisses OgMaciel "Happy New Year" [08:58] :) [08:58] la la la la la === zenrox opens a can of mt. dew [08:58] raphink, wrong occasion hehehe [08:58] hehe [08:58] ,,,, [08:58] ok, way to annoy CC members who have to read scrollback [08:58] :) [08:58] please take the party to #ubuntu-offtopic or something [08:58] KingBahamut|Work, hehehe... festive mood, aren't we? ;) [08:58] mdke: stop the countdown , I dont want to turn the key [08:59] sorry, bad Wargames ref, wheres the WOPR when you need it === zenrox bows politely [08:59] please guys, listen to Kamion [08:59] noted [08:59] I've pinged sabdfl, hopefully he'll be here in a minute [08:59] elmo: here? [08:59] mdke: Ahh you are here :-) [08:59] mako has mail, but I have no idea if he'll be around [08:59] FLeiXiuS, ? === kjcole [n=kjcole@pchb1f.gallaudet.edu] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === apokryphos [n=apokryph@host-84-9-33-186.bulldogdsl.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:00] :) [09:00] mdke: Nothing :-P === paulvg [n=void@62.195.115.51] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:01] Kamion: yeah [09:02] so... the cauntdown is over... where's the meeting? === darkmatter [n=darkmatt@206-163-248-40.yktn.hsdb.sasknet.sk.ca] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:02] jenda: here [09:02] jenda: waiting for CC members to arive [09:02] yep [09:02] jenda: we need 3 of them [09:02] Just calm down [09:02] elmo: Mark in the office? === P3L|C4N0 [n=gcamposm@200.121.148.4] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:02] :) === lucasvo [n=lucasvo@www.wservices.ch] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === zenrox sits in a chair around the CC table === jenda sits in the throne just next to ya [09:03] Kamion: not sure, I'm @ home === hybrid sits in a CC members chair === manicka [n=grant@203-158-39-222.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === Kyral sighs === paulvg joins the audience === sabdfl [n=mark@ubuntu/member/pdpc.silver.sabdfl] has joined #ubuntu-meeting === lucasvo stays at the door and will have a look at CC [09:03] evening all [09:03] hi [09:03] hey Mark [09:03] hi [09:03] there he is :), hello [09:03] evning sabdfl [09:03] good day [09:03] hi [09:04] good evening sabdfl [09:04] hello sabdfl:) [09:04] hi sabdfl [09:04] UbuntuForumDiscussion (now resolved) ??? [09:04] Alright lets get down to business :-) [09:04] sabdfl: ya act like ya started ubuntu or something ... :p [09:04] really ? [09:04] ah, right, let's start then [09:04] wiki licensing [09:04] oh, glad to hear the forums issue is resolved, btw [09:04] hi all === sabdfl reads the page, sorry for being slow [09:04] congratulations to all involved there on finding middle ground [09:04] Hiya. [09:05] mdke: wanna give a quick precis? [09:05] ogra: yeah, we got it figured out (mostly) [09:05] Kamion, sabdfl did you have a chance to read the spec? [09:05] cool ! [09:05] aye Kamion [09:05] Amaranth: well done === Amaranth had almost nothing to do with it [09:05] Yah I think the only problem is the small fued between Seveas and Arnieboy [09:05] mdke: only very briefly, still reading [09:05] Kamion, cool, i'll summarise while you are [09:06] a pity seveas aint here [09:06] ok [09:06] seveas? i thought it was me and arnieboy :) [09:06] anyway, next topic [09:06] mdke: how will we integrate items that are not in the public domain? === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:07] sabdfl, that's the outstanding issue on the spec :) [09:07] one of two options [09:07] sabdfl: items already in the wiki or new items? [09:07] *three [09:07] hno73: both [09:08] ok new items would be no problem [09:08] because they would be added on the basis of being put in the public domain [09:08] I thought it was GFDL... [09:08] old items are the tricky bit [09:08] wikipedia had a similar issue and had to go around contacting everyone, IIRC [09:08] licence interop is complex, and i can see the value of saying "ok, let's basically get out of the way and not add any new barriers" [09:08] A notice on the edit page would take care of new items === mdke nods at hno73 [09:08] as for old items, as i say, i think there are 3 options [09:08] 1. go around contacting all users [09:09] hno73: +1, whatever we decide, should be clearly stated on the edit page for future reference [09:09] 2. remove everything [09:09] 3. assume that all current material has already been made public domain, and not bother asking everyone [09:09] mdke: on the UDSF we just reference back to you, because of those issues... [09:09] I'm definitely not keen on 2. - lots of work for negative gain in the short term [09:09] yeah 2 is out for me [09:09] i like 3, with an implementation for resolving any potential disputes in a nice way [09:09] -2 on 2 :-) [09:10] 3. sounds like it requires checking with a lawyer :( [09:10] Kamion, o.o [09:10] I'd think 3 would be good. Default to public domain and if anyone doesn't like that they need to speak up. [09:10] Would it be worth anything to also have something similar to the CoC signing that attempts to make sure folks acknowledge that they've read and understand it? [09:10] 3 has the feel "woooo pretend this is all cooool" [09:10] Amaranth: you can't just nationalise someone else's property [09:10] umm...excuse me for being unknowledgable, but is the GFDL complient with the Wiki License? [09:10] i think if you post it on a web page it is public domain [09:11] imho [09:11] sabdfl: that's arguable when they dumped their property in your yard voluntarily [09:11] Kyral: we don't have a wiki licence, that's what's caused this confusion [09:11] I can see your argument that wikis are naturally collaborative do-what-you-like documents, but authors often take quite a proprietorial attitude to documentation [09:11] #1 is technically doable since we have people's login email addresses [09:11] sabdfl: ah [09:11] zenrox, that's not correct, but you can argue that with a wiki, it is [09:11] elmo: arguable == lawyer's fees [09:11] what about (1) for a month, then (2) or (3) on a contributor by contributor basis ? (do we have full history for all pages ?) [09:11] is the website content under a specific licence? [09:11] there's a variation on (3), which is to assume public domain, send out a wide announce, and ask for anyone who objects to contact us, and we'll deal with that material on a case by case basis [09:11] Can you send an email to everyone that's contributed, wait 2 or so weeks, move everything to public domain unless someone speaks up? [09:11] sabdfl , then CC:PD it and make a reasonable assessment to the userbase ? [09:12] Kamion, i look at it like this: not many people will complain if we do 3. If they do, and we are open to resolving the problem nicely, like removing it if they are insistent, then there will be absolutely NP [09:12] elmo: I prefer that option [09:12] sabdfl: over a wiki page? vs. the crap we have in multiverse? I don't think it's a remotely sane comparison [09:12] yes, we can announce and wait for comment, but then we could do that with any licence, not just PD [09:12] elmo, exactly my view too [09:12] sabdfl: (but it's not my money ;) [09:12] mdke: I think we need to give due notice as elmo suggests ... [09:12] Kamion, yes that sounds fine too [09:12] if we impose any licence at this stage, we have to announce widely and wait for comments [09:13] Kamion, give the user time to respond, perhaps, yes? [09:13] KingBahamut|Work: indeed [09:13] so, why CC:PD rather than CC-SA? don't we want a copyleft in there? [09:13] sabdfl, it won't get to needing lawyers fees, because no one is making any profit anyway, but of course, it's nice to do things properly [09:13] I think #3 becomes more acceptable if we have made an honest attempt at #1 [09:13] we need to work out in advance what to do when (I'm pessimistic enough not to say if) people object [09:13] KingBahamut|Work: Would you be willing to follow along with what the official wiki does for docs.gwos.org? [09:13] sabdfl, as for PD, it makes a lot of sense because the wiki material gets fed into other documentation [09:13] sabdfl: I'd like to see it be possible for wiki content to be copied into the distribution as widely as possible, personally, and not to have to worry about licensing conflicts [09:13] sabdfl, it was my understanding that the documentation was to be as open as possible [09:14] Keep in mind that some people who are contributing to the wiki (a) would like a little pat on the head -- especially if it's the only thing they're able to do, and (b) don't want their work "ruined" (a relative term). [09:14] also on a more practical note I think more people are likely to object to a copyleft, and the fewer objectors the better :) [09:14] Amaranth , for the sake of openess , yes we are , thus the current stage of lisc. [09:14] although that's just a gut feeling [09:14] kjcole, in the spec, I noted that they can make their own webpages for that [09:14] kjcole: the wording of a relicensing mail would have to be very careful [09:15] CC-SA is not fully DFSG-compatible, AFAIK [09:15] sabdfl , Id want what comes from UDSF to wiki and vicea versa to be happy both ways....ergo open as possible [09:15] but I think ultimately it *is* a wiki and people do need to expect that other people will be working on it [09:15] do we want to be able to allow people to set a different licence on wiki content they *initialise*, page by page? [09:15] mdke, Sorry. Missed that. [09:15] lucas, that's not a consideration here, but i definitely think PD is the way to go [09:15] sabdfl, really not, that would be mayhem [09:15] lucas: neither is GFDL, and we have used that for books, for example [09:15] mdke, correct sir [09:16] me, i prefer a copyleft, i think it's what makes free software go zoom [09:16] i prefer copyleft [09:16] the only way for different licences on different pages to be viable IMHO is if the wiki has special code to display which licence each page is under [09:16] too [09:16] I like copyleft [09:16] sabdfl, i agree, but I think the wiki is a special case which calls for PD [09:16] mdke, I aggree with you [09:17] we can't attribute every single contributor to every single page that gets used === hno73 agrees with mdke, copyleft gets messy with text [09:17] mdke: does CC-SA require attribution? [09:17] and keeping track of different licences would be even worse [09:17] I quite like GFDL, since Linux is gpl, why should the the documentation be opendomain(so every company can use it and make money with it)? [09:17] doesn't the wiki have a changelog? [09:17] PD++ (and I'm usually a copyleft-fan) [09:17] sabdfl: all currect cc licenses have attribution [09:17] Kyral: yes it does [09:18] lucasvo: you can make money with gpl and gfdl [09:18] *current [09:18] lucasvo: I'd rather not get into the whole GFDL debate, but many people (myself included) don't think that the GFDL is in the same spirit as the GPL; also it's GPL-incompatible which is very inconvenient [09:18] paulvg, that's not right [09:18] there are older ones, but the latest version afaik always has attribution [09:18] sabdfl, cc-by-sa does, but i suppose a cc-sa doesn't [09:18] sabdfl: yes, I mean, changing it and do not give back [09:19] particularly for any documentation that could end up as e.g. inline help in GPL programs [09:19] paulvg, the public domain one certainly doesn't [09:19] ofcourse [09:19] but thats not really cc [09:19] it existed before [09:19] sabdfl: there's no CC SA, it's CC BY-SA (see http://creativecommons.org/about/licenses/meet-the-licenses ) [09:19] thanks luca [09:20] s [09:20] ok. afaiac mdke is the master of the wiki and i am happy to follow his recommendation. +1 on CC:PD from me, following the process elmo described. kamion? elmo? [09:20] lol === mdke points at hno73 [09:21] that's fine by me, if somebody can take up the action of contacting contributors [09:21] can i ask [09:21] We already have CC:PD in place [09:21] at UDSF [09:21] sorry, UDSF? [09:21] elmo, was your suggestion to make a general announcement, or to attempt to contact individuals? [09:21] we can easily contact contributors since we moved to launchpad auth for the wiki [09:21] Document Storage Facility [09:22] Kamion , http://doc.gwos.org [09:22] what about adding a field on LP like "I agree to switch to PD for my wiki content" ? [09:22] dunno if moin helps us beyond that [09:22] Bonzodog: thanks [09:22] mdke: if we can identify indviduals who've made edits to the wiki, I think we should do both [09:22] and cc:pd etc. is fine by me too [09:22] elmo, sabdfl, would someone do a script for that? [09:22] I think due legal notice probably requires at least the latter, though IANAL obviously [09:22] elmo: just email everyone, saying that that if you have contributed, read this email? [09:22] robotgeek: +1 [09:22] robotgeek , thats a big email list I suspect [09:23] if someone who knows moin can pull out all the contributor's LP id's or WikiName's, we can get email addresses for them yes [09:23] much easier :) [09:23] sabdfl, maybe spiv knows how to do it... [09:23] We would need to write a script to check all the edits [09:23] mdke: ok, will you discuss that with him? we'll get it tasked and scheduled if its going to take time === irvin [n=irvin@203.213.221.131] has joined #ubuntu-meeting [09:23] and then there was the migration from Zwiki ... [09:23] sabdfl, sure, rock [09:23] in the meanwhile, we should announce the planned change and coming emails [09:24] what does the Wiki use for a backend? [09:24] Kyral: moin moin [09:24] in which all the edit history was left behind [09:24] Kyral: LP for account details, text files for... the text files [09:24] (exists in backups though) [09:24] hno73, if people haven't edited the wiki since then... they're really not gonna care I'm thinking ;) [09:24] mdke, your probably right about that [09:24] hno73: good point. we probably lost all of that revision history in zwiki [09:25] it does leave a vulnerable point (since we are doing this by the book) [09:25] sabdfl: it's still in a zope database somewhere, but extracting that is likely non-trivial [09:25] in the form we want [09:25] i don't think it is worth the effort [09:25] the e-mail that goes out should contain an explanation of the issue and a rationale for why we think public domain is (a) a good idea and (b) not intended as an attack on their intellectual property etc. [09:25] (or something like that) [09:25] agreed [09:26] Kamion, we can prepare it on the wiki as a subpage of that spec if you like [09:26] mdke: w.r.t. pages that currently have attribution, i don't think we need to *remove* names, but we should make it clear that attribution is not required [09:26] Kamion: agree [09:26] mdke: works for me [09:26] mdke: +1 [09:26] hno73: i don't think we need to trawl that far back, we can deal with any cases that come out of the woodwork on a case-by-case basis [09:27] sabdfl: cool [09:27] ok, did we get +1 from quorum? [09:27] sabdfl, how about moving attribution to the bottom? :) [09:27] I think so, yes [09:27]