[12:49] <Burglaptop> mdke: didn't you want to speak to rob1?
[01:38] <mdke> Burglaptop, for like the last 3 weeks :)
[01:38] <mdke> rob1, you alive?
[01:47] <Bonzodog> um
[01:47] <Bonzodog> just before you go
[01:47] <mdke> hi
[01:48] <mdke> i never actually go to bed the first time anyway
[01:48] <Bonzodog> how do you feel about the doc?
[01:48] <Bonzodog> I'm going to write a mission statement on in 
[01:48] <mdke> i hate the way you guys call it "the doc"
[01:48] <Bonzodog> and about what it does, where we go
[01:49] <mdke> otherwise, I've posted my feelings all over the forum
[01:49] <Bonzodog> it's easier than UDSF
[01:49] <mdke> i think it's a shame you guys don't use the Ubuntu wiki, but I accept your decision to keep it separate
[01:49] <KingBahamut> well actually
[01:49] <KingBahamut> UDSF has a cool Robotech like tone to it
[01:49] <KingBahamut> just doesnt roll out of the mouth quite right
[01:50] <mdke> heh
[01:50] <Bonzodog> well we feel that it serves a slightly different purpose than the wiki
[01:50] <KingBahamut> regardless, mark asked for an assesment in the meeting
[01:50] <KingBahamut> for the next meeting on it 
[01:50] <KingBahamut> from both sides 
[01:51] <Bonzodog> our's is more about pulling documentation off the forums - how-to's etc
[01:51] <KingBahamut> all we want to do is prep them for you guys 
[01:51] <Bonzodog> and collecting this info in a central pool
[01:51] <Bonzodog> so there is a definitive archive
[01:51] <mdke> that can't be the only purpose
[01:52] <Bonzodog> think of it like - the main wiki is the 'notice board'
[01:52] <KingBahamut> it isnt
[01:52] <mdke> because otherwise, it would make sense to use https://wiki.ubuntu.com/forum
[01:52] <mdke> given that wikimedia uses a different markup
[01:52] <KingBahamut> there are other forms of data
[01:52] <Bonzodog> and we are more the 'library'
[01:52] <KingBahamut> that couldnt possibly fit an Official status
[01:52] <mdke> KingBahamut, the Ubuntu wiki is not "official" either, anyone can post to it
[01:53] <KingBahamut> no I understand that 
[01:53] <KingBahamut> never questioned it 
[01:53] <KingBahamut> again the original concept of putting it up was to move all pertinent forum data 
[01:53] <KingBahamut> related to process in an organized fashion
[01:53] <Bonzodog> I like to think that we have a definitive role to play in archiving/selecting useful forum material
[01:53] <KingBahamut> Andrew aka Azz
[01:53] <mdke> as I said, I accept your decision
[01:53] <KingBahamut> and many others attempt to motivate users to move data to the wiki
[01:53] <KingBahamut> many dont 
[01:53] <mdke> however, I personally believe that wiki.ubuntu.com/forum would suffice for that
[01:54] <Bonzodog> most if not all of our material relates to the forums
[01:54] <KingBahamut> is that data to be lost because the OP
[01:54] <mdke> Bonzodog, no it doesn't, it relates to Ubuntu
[01:54] <KingBahamut> doesnt want to move it?
[01:54] <mdke> KingBahamut, which data would be lost?
[01:54] <KingBahamut> Stuff written by users who would never move data to the wiki 
[01:54] <KingBahamut> or want to 
[01:55] <mdke> that argument applies to both wikis
[01:55] <mdke> in both cases you need people to do the moving
[01:55] <Bonzodog> this is why i think we can move data between both
[01:55] <KingBahamut> most of the people who move data to the UDSF do it with the realization it will go elsewhere later 
[01:56] <mdke> KingBahamut, e.g.?
[01:56] <KingBahamut> many of them just dont want to put the effort into 
[01:56] <mdke> Bonzodog, that is why a section of the main wiki would work better, because it is the same markup
[01:56] <Bonzodog> and we ourselves are linking back to the wiki in some cases
[01:56] <KingBahamut> moving it elsewhere 
[01:56] <mdke> or alternatively, another moin server
[01:56] <KingBahamut> or that the opinion that I get 
[01:56] <KingBahamut> I think its desireability
[01:56] <KingBahamut> but I have no control over the user
[01:56] <KingBahamut> so 
[01:57] <KingBahamut> It should be easily feasible to allow the move of such data
[01:57] <KingBahamut> Ill even assign 3 members 
[01:57] <KingBahamut> to do it
[01:57] <KingBahamut> once the liscensing issues are corrected if you like 
[01:57] <mdke> ok, well you asked for my opinion. I don't want to keep talking about it because I've spent a lot of hours doing that already. My opinion is, go ahead, do it, but i personally would use the section of the wiki dedicated to the forum directly, without a separate go between in a different markup
[01:57] <KingBahamut> aye capn
[01:58] <Bonzodog> the teams have to work together
[01:58] <mdke> yeah, I'm glad that we can at least do that
[01:58] <KingBahamut> like I say 
[01:58] <KingBahamut> Ill devote half my team
[01:58] <KingBahamut> to move the data 
[01:58] <KingBahamut> for you guys 
[01:58] <KingBahamut> I dont have an issue with that, and it will happen like it or not 
[01:59] <KingBahamut> one way or the other 
[01:59] <Bonzodog> and sabdfl has a good point about us maybe coming together in some way
[01:59] <KingBahamut> you should benefit from it just as much as I do 
[01:59] <Bonzodog> so we are all part of the same team
[01:59] <KingBahamut> I dont want a stigma to occur just because a user prefers one place over the other 
[01:59] <KingBahamut> in where he puts it 
[02:00] <mdke> the thing is
[02:01] <mdke> instead of having half a team doing one thing and half a team moving that over to another place, you'd save a lot of time working on one thing
[02:01] <mdke> why can't we just combine our efforts?
[02:02] <Bonzodog> I think in the end that will have to happen, we need to find an easier way of doing it
[02:02] <mdke> i don't think the user would mind :) He'd get a better end result
[02:02] <mdke> Bonzodog, ok, let's wait and see how it goes
[02:02] <Bonzodog> I personally like mediawiki as software
[02:03] <Bonzodog> it is a ver powerful bit of kit 
[02:03] <mdke> yeah it's nice
[02:03] <mdke> don't encourage Burglaptop though, keep it quiet
[02:03] <Bonzodog> wikipedia haven't helped because their management of it has been poor
[02:03] <Bonzodog> even though they wrote it
[02:04] <mdke> Moin is great too :)
[02:04] <Burglaptop> ugh
[02:04] <mdke> lots of great stuff
[02:04] <Bonzodog> I have noticed some basic similarities between the two markups
[02:04] <Bonzodog> as i have a wiki login myself
[02:05] <Bonzodog> for the main wiki
[02:05] <mdke> yeah they are both easy to learn
[02:05] <Bonzodog> have you seen my wiki homepage?
[02:05] <mdke> nope
[02:05] <Burglaptop> Bonzodog: they are similiar enough that a automatic script can convert them
[02:05] <Bonzodog> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Bonzodog
[02:06] <mdke> i see it
[02:36] <Burglaptop> mdke: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiflow
[02:37] <mdke> bookmarking, will read anon
[02:43] <Bonzodog> mdke; am talking to others about how define the UDSF
[02:43] <mdke> ok
[02:43] <Bonzodog> this is what we have come to
[02:43] <mdke> brainstorm it up on the wiki
[02:43] <Bonzodog> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knowledgebase
[02:44] <Bonzodog> is a basic definition of what people in UDSF see themselves doing..porting info from the forums, not written by themselves, and creating a knowledgebase
[02:44] <mdke> all wikis are knowledgebases
[02:45] <mdke> including the main Ubuntu one, if you want it to be
[02:45] <Burglaptop> Bonzodog: you should talk to jbailey, he has a similar idea for LP
[02:50] <Bonzodog> Kassetra is defining it nicely
[02:50] <Bonzodog> i'm talking to her at the moment
[02:50] <mdke> make sure you work in writing somewhere
[02:50] <Bonzodog> but shes in one hell of a mood
[02:51] <Bonzodog> I will do.
[02:51] <Bonzodog> in fact..
[02:51] <Bonzodog> hrm..
[02:51] <Bonzodog> can i create an item on the official wiki about it?
[02:51] <mdke> Bonzodog, you can create whatever you like in the wiki
[02:51] <mdke> especially this
[02:51] <Bonzodog> thank you
[03:06] <Bonzodog> reight, I'm off to bed
[03:06] <Bonzodog> will be back on in morning
[04:07] <Madpilot> hi all
[05:07] <Madpilot> Burglaptop: how're you doing?
[05:08] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: better
[05:08] <Burglaptop> boss wants to come to work tomorrow for a few hours before I go out to the staff party
[05:09] <Burglaptop> told him that travel is what hurts, not being anywhere
[05:09] <Madpilot> ouch. 
[05:09] <Madpilot> if  you're still popping painkillers, the staff party might not be much fun either...
[05:09] <Burglaptop> I will speak to him tomorrow and hopefully he will understand
[05:10] <Burglaptop> the staff party will be a small affair at dinner
[05:10] <Burglaptop> nothing much
[05:10] <Madpilot> not a geekish boozefest? ;)
[05:10] <Burglaptop> nope
[05:10] <Burglaptop> all of our respective spouses will be there
[05:11] <Madpilot> how civilized
[05:15] <Madpilot> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UDSF  <-- odd - but at least they're talking to the DocTeam now...
[05:30] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: yes, Bonzodog was in here previously
[05:31] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: there was a cool link I gave mdke earlier about workflow stuff that mediawiki was considering
[05:31] <Madpilot> the Wikiflow one?
[05:32] <Burglaptop> it was on meta.wikimedia.org
[05:32] <Madpilot> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiflow <-- this one, right? about editing & such
[05:33] <Burglaptop> yep
[05:33] <Burglaptop> that is pretty much exactly what we need
[05:34] <Madpilot> looks interesting
[05:35] <Burglaptop> if we a simple script and two wiki engines, we could do some of what that does right away
[05:35] <Burglaptop> simply create the doc on doc.u.c and then publish it to help.u.c
[05:37] <Madpilot> yikes - that means running three wikis at the same time...
[05:37] <Burglaptop> yes
[05:37] <Burglaptop> one for the the develoers, which we don't care about
[05:37] <Burglaptop> and two for us
[05:38] <Burglaptop> but the help wiki would be restricted editing
[05:38] <Burglaptop> only the people in the wiki group on LP would be able to edit the article
[05:38] <Madpilot> so wiki.u.c would just be the devel/community stuff
[05:38] <Burglaptop> yes
[05:38] <Burglaptop> laptop testing team, etc
[05:38] <Burglaptop> sadly moin is actually easier to do a rough hack, becasue of the mysql database that mediawiki has
[05:39] <Madpilot> well, fire an email off to the list, and restart the "what do we do with the wiki" debate again ;)
[05:39] <Burglaptop> but mediawiki allows you turn off editing to all articles but allow anon editing to talk pages
[05:39] <Burglaptop> with one simple switch
[05:40] <Burglaptop> to be clear, the article would still be able to be edited by admins
[04:12] <jjesse> good morning, when someone has a chance could take a look at the new kubuntu/releasenotes i've uploaded and comment on them for me
[04:12] <jjesse> in trunk/kubuntu/releasenotes/C/releasenotes.xml
[04:12] <jjesse> it validates now
[05:47] <k31th> yo
[06:18] <jsgotangco> hey all
[06:43] <jjesse> jsgotangco: if you have a second can you review kubuntu/releasenotes ?
[06:50] <jsgotangco> jjesse, now?
[06:50] <jjesse> doesn't have to be now, but i'm uploaded a lot of changes for dapper
[06:50] <jjesse> so when you have some time
[06:51] <jjesse> still more changes will come, i have Riddell looking at them as well
[06:51] <jsgotangco> oh yeah, i saw the commit list
[06:52] <jsgotangco> ok i gotta sleep
[06:52] <jsgotangco> later
[06:52] <jjesse> thanks have a good sleep
[09:01] <mdke> aha
[09:01] <mdke> highvoltage, i noticed that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingRecords is edubuntu specific, do you mind if I rename it? I'll fix the links
[09:05] <highvoltage> mdke: sure
[09:05] <highvoltage> mdke: you can let go now :)
[09:06] <mdke> oh sorry
[09:13] <jjesse> fear the master of the wiki
[09:14] <Madpilot> hmm?
[09:14] <jjesse> mdke was named master of the wiki in the community council meeting :)
[09:14] <jjesse> just giving him a hard time for his bugging highvoltage 
[09:15] <Madpilot> cool - I had to be at work during the last one...
[09:19] <jjesse> :)
[09:21] <jjesse> no please let go, i want to leave work :)
[09:21] <theCore> mdke, as the master of the wiki, what are your new responsibilities ?
[09:21] <theCore> mdke, btw congrat:) !
[09:21] <jjesse> was sabdfl being sarcastic or???
[09:23] <theCore> s/asking/himself/
[09:24] <theCore> i'm just confused n/m
[09:24] <theCore> so, what is the joke ?
[09:25] <jjesse> yesterday at the community council meeting mdke was talking about the license on the wiki and safdl menioned something about mdke being the master of the wiki
[09:25] <jjesse> i don't know exactly what it means, but was giving him a hard time yesterday
[09:27] <theCore> ah :)
[09:29] <mdke> long night at work for you
[09:34] <highvoltage> mdke: sorry, lost my connection there for a while
[09:34] <highvoltage> mdke: i looked at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingRecords, but it seems that it's already removed?
[09:34] <mdke> yeah i moved it
[09:35] <highvoltage> ok, np.
[09:35] <Madpilot> mdke: without a redirect?
[09:35] <mdke> yes
[09:35] <mdke> i fixed all the links on the wiki
[09:36] <mdke> hmm
[09:36] <mdke> problem with a redirect is that the point of moving the page was that that page remains available for non-specific meeting records
[09:36] <Madpilot> there is a web outside the Ubuntu wiki, you know ;)
[09:36] <mdke> i'm aware of that yeah
[09:37] <Madpilot> don't make it an auto-redirect, just have a link to the new Edubuntu page, or other meeting-record pages
[09:37] <mdke> Madpilot, google has nothing on that page...
[09:37] <mdke> but maybe you're right
[09:38] <Madpilot> anyway, need to go. see you all later.
[09:38] <mdke> cya
[09:38] <mdke> I'll redirect it to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingAgendas
[09:38] <mdke> how about that?
[09:39] <Madpilot> sure
[09:39] <Madpilot> must go...
[09:46] <k31th> yo
[09:46] <k31th> long tme no speak
[09:46] <mdke> hello
[09:47] <k31th> i hope to do some doc work for ubuntu, if thats possible ?
[09:47] <mdke> you betcha
[09:47] <mdke> you know more or less how we work?
[09:47] <k31th> I have been using it mainly as a server and i will be using it more at work as soon as i take over in jan 
[09:47] <mdke> ah cool
[09:48] <mdke> the serverguide needs plenty of love
[09:48] <k31th> then im stopping using centos and starting to use ubuntu
[09:48] <k31th> mdke: sweet 
[09:48] <k31th> im not to sure how you guys work tbh im signed upto the mailing list tho
[09:48] <k31th> iv just had no time lately 
[09:48] <mdke> ok cool
[09:49] <mdke> a good place to start is https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamGettingStarted
[09:49] <k31th> when every thing calm down i can do some in my spare time at work between work :D 
[09:50] <k31th> ahh nice ill have a read right after i decide how im going to backup all these remote boxes :D
[09:51] <k31th> i need to find a way of backing up MS Exchange Database with a OS backup utility :D
[09:51] <mdke> great
[09:52] <k31th> one thing i will do is write some thing for bacula in ubuntu atm it is not covered
[09:52] <k31th> as far as i know ?
[09:52] <mdke> what is that
[09:52] <k31th> its a OS backup util
[09:52] <mdke> aha
[09:53] <k31th> http://bacula.org 
[09:53] <mdke> good candidate for a wiki page
[09:53] <k31th> mdke: wiki page would be pufect 
[09:53] <k31th> purfect
[09:54] <mdke> ahhhh
[09:54] <mdke> k31th, you use dovecot?
[09:54] <k31th> i have used it 
[09:55] <k31th> at work we are using some thing else. Iv used it set it up in ubuntu before
[09:55] <mdke> i've been struggling with it ;)
[09:55] <k31th> wat aspect of it ?
[09:55] <mdke> couldn't connect to the imaps server
[09:56] <mdke> just realised I had a stray sasl process blocking it
[09:56] <k31th> you check logs ?
[09:56] <k31th> ahh 
[09:56] <mdke> the damn logs were totally empty
[09:56] <k31th> actually talking of imap
[09:56] <mdke> i was kinda wondering what the best imap server might be for Ubuntu
[09:56] <mdke> its the first time I've set up email
[09:57] <k31th> i tried conencting to our server at work the other day from home. and it just timed out ! thats using mozilla thunderbird as the client 
[09:57] <mdke> brb just rebooting
[09:58] <k31th> mdke: ell iv used courier
[09:58] <k31th> well*
[10:00] <mdke> that is not in main on Ubuntu iirc
[10:06] <mdke> heard it's good tho
[10:08] <k31th> mdke: hang on
[10:08] <k31th> its univ i think?
[10:08] <mdke> yes
[10:08] <mdke> ok dovecot is working now anyhow :)
[10:09] <k31th> skills
[10:09] <k31th> im going to setup a mail server on this box when i have time!
[10:09] <k31th> mdke: not a backup guru by any chance are you ???
[10:10] <mdke> nope
[10:12] <jjesse> i just got qemu working today so i'm running dapper in a virtual session :)
[10:12] <jjesse> so i can stay live on the daily builds :)
[10:12] <mdke> rock
[10:26] <k31th> Odd my dad just came in asked me if i was going out i said no, and he gave me a beer 
[11:09] <k31th> anyone alive ?
[11:09] <mdke> yus
[11:13] <manicka> yeah