[12:02] <infinity> TBH, most of my recent experience is with Compaq/HP and IBM gear, which has management tools that don't suck.
[12:03] <infinity> The Adaptec i2o stuff should be good too, but more expensive than the card you have there.
[12:16] <Pygi> welcome m_peus
[12:16] <m_peus> hi Pygi
[12:16] <infinity> Pygi : Seriously, is that a script, or are you just watching like a hawk for /joins?
[12:16] <Pygi> infinity: no script, lol ;)
[12:17] <infinity> Pygi : If it's a script, I'd really prefer if you turned it off in all the ubuntu-* channels you're in.  If it's just you typing, it's still a bit... Repetitve.
[12:17] <Pygi> just randomly look there and there and if somebody joined (no matter when) I say Welcome ;)
[12:17] <Pygi> infinity: it's not a script, but if you can I can stop saying it
[12:18] <infinity> Well, a personal greeting here and there is fine "Hey Bob, how's life, haven't seen you in the channel for a few days", but welcoming every single /join gets a bit old. :)
[12:18] <Pygi> kk
[12:19] <Pygi> no problem
[12:20] <infinity> Thanks, dude.
[12:35] <nictuku> infinity, what were your ideas about how to handle remote debconf? a remote database is not good enough, i believe. Is wrapping a readline frontend a decent idea?
[12:36] <nictuku> with dpkg-preconfigure, that is.
[12:39] <nictuku> or maybe -feditor
[12:39] <nictuku> with a replaced editor environment
[12:43] <infinity> Remote debconf was a sketchy "down the road" thing.
[12:45] <nictuku> but it is necessary, isnt it?
[12:46] <infinity> The first cut should really just handle simple package installation, sources.list.d/ setup, and remote package listings would be nice.
[12:46] <infinity> Remote debconf is less necessary than you'd think.
[12:46] <infinity> I set all my machines to use NONINTERACTIVE frontends, and sort out stuff later.  It's the only sane way (currently) to do remote system management.
[12:46] <infinity> So, expecting people to continue to do that while we figure out the most clever way to do remote debconf is fine by me.
[12:46] <nictuku> what about conffiles?
[12:47] <infinity> I'd rather something that was tightly integrated with debconf than a half-assed solution cause we thought we needed it.
[12:47] <nictuku> i see.
[12:47] <infinity> conffiles can also be done without intervention.
[12:47] <nictuku> by using the current installed version?
[12:47] <infinity> You can select "always use old", "always use new", or "ask"
[12:48] <infinity> The latter is clearly the default in both apt and dpkg.
[12:48] <infinity> But you can set either of the other two in apt, and it'll bubble down to dpkg.
[12:49] <infinity> So this system would, initially, just let admins make that choice (always use old" or "always use new", and we'll pass the approriate options down.  We can handle the "ask" mode after the basics are handled.
[12:49] <infinity> (The problem with "ask" is the system can't be asyncronous)
[12:49] <infinity> So, in reality, what you probably want is "always use (whichever makes more sense)" coupled with a system that allows you to later go in and view diffs.
[12:49] <infinity> Which is easy enough to do, since you'll have the old/new files there as .dpkg-{new,old} files.
[12:52] <nictuku> I see in the draft the use of ssh-server in the clients would be required. I don't see why. Wouldn't the push operations just ask a pull from the client? Could you explain?
[12:59] <infinity> You use SSH to trigger the clients to pull from the server.
[12:59] <infinity> This is not, strictly-speaking, required.  It's not the only way to do it, afterall.
[01:00] <infinity> And if we're already building a bit of an HTTP-based security model for client->server, it can certainly be done in the other direction too.
[01:00] <infinity> The point is just to have some sort of authenticated trigger, and SSH triggers are something we've used a lot in the past (for instance, all Ubuntu and Debian primary mirrors are triggered using SSH)
[01:00] <nictuku> Yes that's why I believe too.
[01:01] <nictuku> s/why/what/
[02:04] <nictuku> is there any doc for python-apt? docstrings didn't help me much.
[02:18] <MarioMeyer> heya nictuku .. u from br?
[02:18] <nictuku> yes.
[02:19] <MarioMeyer> can i pvt?
[02:19] <nictuku> sure
[03:09] <Pygi> hehe,matt
[03:18] <Pygi> heh lbm ;)
[05:29] <Pygi> sorry ealden, can't say welcome ;)
[05:30] <MarioMeyer> heya chara...
[05:31] <Pygi> chara?
[05:31] <MarioMeyer> in pt_BR we call a 'chara' the person who has the same name as ours...
[05:31] <MarioMeyer> :P
[05:32] <Pygi> ah ;)
[05:32] <Pygi> hey Mario
[05:32] <ealden> Pygi: why not?
[05:32] <ealden> hehe
[05:32] <Pygi> ealden: I was 'forbiden' to say welcome to everyone who joins ;)
[05:32] <ealden> WTH hehehe
[05:33] <MarioMeyer> lol
[05:34] <ealden> umm
[05:34] <ealden> Pygi: ok
[05:34] <ealden> heheh
[05:34] <Pygi> heh ;)
[05:44] <Unfun> lol
[05:46] <Pygi> ok, it's isn't that funny ;)
[07:26] <neuralis> infinity: ping
[07:27] <neuralis> fabbione: ping
[07:50] <fabbione> neuralis: pong?
[07:50] <neuralis> fabbione: hey! long time no see
[07:51] <neuralis> fabbione: when you have a chance, can you look at https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerTesting (bottom) and pitch in ideas for what else belongs there
[07:52] <fabbione> neuralis: no.. i didn't even know there was a spec
[07:52] <neuralis> fabbione: neither did i. this is part of the CommunityServerHardwareTesting spec, i inherited it from infinity on the last day of ubz
[07:53] <fabbione> ah ok
[07:53] <neuralis> fabbione: but mdz had something else in mind for it entirely, so that's what ServerTesting is -- i just braindumped the obvious things that came to mind at the bottom
[07:53] <fabbione> i will have to look at it
[07:54] <neuralis> fabbione: okay, thanks. if you think of anything else that we'd want people to test, let me know or just add it to the page.
[07:54] <fabbione> ok
[07:54] <fabbione> i wil
[07:54] <fabbione> +l
[07:54] <neuralis> btw, we have an almost-complete full userspace port of openssi to dapper
[07:55] <neuralis> everything except udev (which is from warty), because we're sticking with our 2.6.10 kernel
[07:55] <fabbione> ah nice
[07:55] <fabbione> udev is changed a lot
[07:55] <fabbione> remember we have upstream version freeze mid January
[07:56] <neuralis> yep, i've notified our developers, they know about the deadline
[07:57] <fabbione> yes and getting the code a bit before that is better
[07:57] <neuralis> i also haven't gotten around to asking mdz when it makes sense to start hardware certification for servers
[07:58] <neuralis> i.e. at what point in the release cycle
[07:58] <neuralis> i'm thinking feature freeze. you?
[07:58] <fabbione> possibly.. we need to ask him
[07:58] <fabbione> sorry i am not particularly helpful today
[07:58] <fabbione> i am at about 16 hours into kernel security
[07:58] <fabbione> and i am tired
[07:58] <neuralis> no problem, i mailed him, so he'll respond when he gets back from vacation
[07:59] <neuralis> ouch! sorry, man
[07:59] <neuralis> well none of this is urgent, so don't worry about it, we'll talk later
[08:03] <fabbione> ok :)
[11:02] <sebest_> hello
[11:02] <Pygi> hi
[11:03] <sebest_> i'd like to know , where i could find info on what is going on in ubuntu server land (i m already subscribed to the ml)
[11:03] <sebest_> i also read the wiki (the spec)
[11:04] <Pygi> well, what exactly are you interested in?
[11:05] <sebest_> the web ui and the config files under RCS
[11:05] <Pygi> hehe, you should ask fabbione about that, but he's probably sleeping now
[11:05] <Pygi> he's been squashing bugs for 16 hours ;)
[11:05] <sebest_> :)
[11:06] <sebest_> i'd like to know if ubuntu-server will have a specific goal (eg: small business) or will be a common server OS like debian/redhat and the like
[11:07] <Nafallo> it will be ubuntu-minimal I guess :-P
[11:07] <Pygi> with a few modifications
[11:07] <Nafallo> Pygi: oh?
[11:07] <sebest_> Nafallo, no specificity?
[11:07] <Pygi> Naffalo: it will feature server tuned kernel, and some other things
[11:08] <Pygi> I'd rather not go into much detail right now ;)
[11:09] <Nafallo> Pygi: yea, but ubuntu-minimal + server-kernel is what will differ from a normal install, right? the md5sum-thingie will be able to work on... ehm, "ubuntu-desktop" as well?
[11:09] <sebest_> i mean, is the simplicity to administer it a goal?
[11:10] <Pygi> sebest: that was the goal of project that was supposed to work/ship along with -server, but it is no longer in development
[11:10] <Pygi> maybe someone else take it over tho
[11:10] <Pygi> and there are some utilities planned
[11:10] <sebest_> For the moment i don't really see what is the specificity of ubuntu server against a vanilla debian?
[11:11] <sebest_> first i thought it would be done to nicely integrate with the desktop version
[11:11] <Pygi> here's the list of packages for -server: http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/ubuntu-server/daily/current/dapper-install-i386.list
[11:12] <sebest_> eg: ease centralized user administration: ldap/kerberos, central update of many workstations
[11:13] <Nafallo> sebest_: I don't think we will have the manpower to develop that for dapper.
[11:13] <Pygi> maybe dapper+1
[11:13] <sebest_> Nafallo, i'm asking question to well understand the goals of the project
[11:15] <Nafallo> sebest_: ah, thought you tried to make up your mind if you would install debian or ubuntu. sorry :-).
[11:15] <Pygi> nafallo: :)
[11:15] <sebest_> Nafallo , no :)
[11:15] <Nafallo> sebest_: fabbione is working on some goodies we will have already in dapper though :-P
[11:16] <sebest_> Nafallo, in fact i'd like to contribute on specific things, but i didn't want to duplicate
[11:16] <sebest_> so i'm trying to get involve, and find some sources of informations on what is going on
[11:17] <Pygi> hm, so sebest, wanna contribute?
[11:17] <Nafallo> yea, same here :-).
[11:17] <Pygi> send a mail to the server list, and I believe you will  be lead from there
[11:17] <Nafallo> if I can find something I could do, that is ;-)
[11:18] <Pygi> naffalo: I know about you ;)
[11:18] <sebest_> Pygi, i already mailed in the ml :)
[11:18] <Pygi> sebest: well, good, then :)
[11:18] <sebest_> i read the the wiki and noticed that log aren't mention
[11:18] <Pygi> nafallo: go work on simple implementation of central update workstations utility ;)
[11:18] <sebest_> i think it's a really important feature missing
[11:19] <sebest_> i hope we won't be left in the cold with the old syslogd ? :)
[11:19] <Nafallo> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ServerCandy
[11:19] <Nafallo> Pygi: pffft :-P
[11:20] <Pygi> nafallo: what? ;)
[11:20] <sebest_> Nafallo, nothing about logs in this page
[11:20] <Nafallo> sebest_: no, this is what will hopefully be implemented for dapper.
[11:21] <sebest_> Nafallo, what is planned? use something different from syslogd?
[11:22] <Nafallo> sebest_: I have no idea outside that spec :-)
[11:50] <tepsipakki> lamont: around?