[12:02] <seb128> jbailey: no, but there is a package on the website
[12:02] <sebest_> slomo, dunno :)
[12:02] <jbailey> seb128: Any chance of me batting my eyelashes at you sweetly to consider it for desktop?
[12:03] <seb128> jbailey: it was on my list of cool stuff, I'll make sure we have it for dapper
[12:03] <jbailey> Cool.  I'm just looking at a new swfdec right now.
[12:03] <seb128> I dropped it somewhere before 5.10
[12:03] <jbailey> Convincing it that it wants to compile.
[12:03] <seb128> k
[12:03] <Nafallo> oooh, swfdec.
[12:03] <jbailey> But if the README and the Changelog are any indication, it looks like a far better bet.
[12:03] <ogra> seb128, you got my full support there ...
[12:04] <jbailey> ogra: Careful.  He'll assign all the bugs to you.
[12:04] <Nafallo> I have the ~/tmp/badger.swf to try it on for amd64 ;-)
[12:04] <ogra> jbailey, i'll happily take them ... i can be a hard bone in bugzilla :)
[12:06] <Pygi> hehe valandil ;)
[12:08] <sebest_> seb128, btw federico is working on modifying nautilus-share not to use dbus
[12:08] <jbailey> What's wrong with dbus?
[12:08] <sebest_> he is working in collaboration with jeremy to add support in samba itself for this feature
[12:09] <sebest_> jbailey, nothing , but i think this could be done with samba's IPC
[12:09] <sebest_> i used dbus, because i wanted to work with a vanilla samba
[12:11] <slomo> sebest_: did you get a query from me?
[12:11] <seb128> sebest_: what feature use dbus?
[12:12] <sebest_> slomo: a query?
[12:12] <sebest_> seb128: the nautilus-extension talks with a deamon using dbus
[12:13] <slomo> sebest_: ok, so you got none? weird...
[12:13] <sebest_> the deamon modifies a file that is included by samba
[12:16] <slomo> sebest_: anyway... for the nautilus-share package... copyright is definitely too small (need to add license, copyright holders, etc), cdbs and libxml-parser-perl are missing as a build-dependency, add ${misc:Depends} to the Depends of the package and you should make it a non-native package :) other than that it seems to be fine to me but i haven't tested it yet, only built it
[12:17] <sebest_> slomo: what is the difference between a native and a non-native package?
[12:19] <slomo> sebest_: a non-native one has a orig.tar.gz (i.e. the upstream tarball) and a diff.gz adding the debian specific changes... a native one consists of only a tar.gz with everything in there, including debian specific changes
[12:20] <sebest_> slomo: ok
[12:21] <sebest_> slomo: i will implement your advices tomorow
[12:23] <slomo> sebest_: thanks, just ping me when you're done... and consider mailing keyring@tiber.tauware.de with your gpg key and asking for a revu login :)  ( http://revu.tauware.de/ )
[12:25] <sebest_> slomo: no problem :)
[12:28] <slomo> sebest_: btw, i'll most probably find some time around christmas to work on s-d-a for the new plugin system :) and it's now in debian since some minutes
[12:28] <sebest_> slomo: me too, after the snowboard sessions ;)
[12:29] <sebest_> i'll have to port it to the new notification api
[12:30] <slomo> sebest_: that too... maybe i find some time for it earlier... where are you snowboarding? :)
[12:31] <sebest_> i'll go to "la plagne"
[12:31] <sebest_> and to "val thorens" in march
[12:40] <Valandil> hi Pygi :-))
[12:40] <Pygi> hi hi
[12:41] <Valandil> :)
[12:42] <Pygi> heh, I wanted to ask why all the smilyes but that's offtopic  ;)
[12:51] <Riddell> mdke: I've not done anything with the docs today
[12:52] <mdke> Riddell, ah k
[12:54] <ryanpg> daniels, hi and congrats on xorg 7.0
[12:55] <ryanpg> daniels, with the most recent xorg stuff for dapper, subpixel aa appears to be broken with EXA http://ruinaudio.com/files/xaa-exa.png
[12:58] <sebest_> anyone installed dapper on vmware? (for me /dev/sda is not created on first boot after installation completed)
[12:59] <rtcm> ryanpg: the fonts look the same to me on my LCD
[01:01] <ryanpg> rtcm, you mean in my screenshot? or are you saying "works for me"?
[01:02] <ryanpg> in the screenshot the fonts on the left (with EXA) are greyscale, the fonts on the left (XAA) are subpixel
[01:02] <ogra> ryanpg, thats more likely a fontconfig prob than a X prob ...
[01:03] <ryanpg> ogra, but fontconfig doesn't change
[01:03] <ryanpg> if I simply comment out the EXA line in xorg.conf fonts work again
[01:03] <slomo> gn8 everybody
[01:04] <ogra> ryanpg, exactly, fontconfig wasnt updated yet :)
[01:04] <ogra> night slomo 
[01:04] <ryanpg> ogra, well though I don't think you're right it's a good enough guess for me :P
[01:08] <ryanpg> someone in #xorg pointed out the toolbar is subpixel aa'd up to "Tools"
[01:08] <ryanpg> on the left half of the screenshot, Search is subpixel AA while Tools is greyscale... how weird eh?
[01:22] <ryanpg> here's a better shot of what's going on http://ruinaudio.com/files/exa-subpixel-not.png
[01:29] <jdub> ryanpg: compare the E in edit to the S in search, then look at the T in Tools and D in Documents
[01:30] <ryanpg> jdub, yes but what am I looking for?
[01:30] <jdub> ryanpg: you're basing your 'not subpixel' analysis on the prevalence of non-vertical/non-horizontal lines
[01:30] <ryanpg> no look closer
[01:30] <ryanpg> compare the e in search to the e in documents for example
[01:31] <crimsun> they look identical here
[01:32] <ryanpg> what?
[01:32] <crimsun> your cited example
[01:32] <ryanpg> I don't think you guys are looking close enough... I'll zoom in more
[01:33] <ryanpg> it's abundantly clear to me somehow
[01:35] <ryanpg> http://ruinaudio.com/files/big-exa-subpixel-not.png
[01:35] <jdub> regardless, this might not be the most useful place to raise your concerns
[01:35] <ryanpg> I dunno, I though daniels would like to know... anyway I'm in the process of filing a bug
[01:36] <ryanpg> but you can see now yes?
[01:36] <lifeless> I did not think X had anything to do with it.
[01:36] <ryanpg> it's about EXA vs XAA, xaa renders subpixel aa fine, exa has the bug
[01:37] <jdub> exa is very much a "join the queue of bug reporters upstream" thing atm
[01:44] <ryanpg> well a bug has been filed
[01:56] <sfeehan> sebest_, there was a thread about this on the ubuntu-devel list: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel/2005-December/013605.html
[03:29] <eruin> E: /var/cache/apt/archives/locales_2.3.7-1_all.deb: prver  skrive over /usr/share/i18n/locales/en_AU, som ogs finnes i pakken language-pack-en-base
[03:40] <Amaranth> Riddell: You said you had kubuntu dapper working on a ppc, right?
[03:42] <SEJeff> Is updating x going to bork right now?
[03:42] <SEJeff> on dapper
[03:58] <Amaranth> I think he went to find out.
[04:49] <xhaker> BenC, if you're there.. somehow vga=*** works on normal boot, but not on recovery boot (single)
[04:50] <BenC> that's probably because vesafb isn't being loaded by usplash on recovery boot
[04:50] <BenC> modprobe vesafb
[04:50] <xhaker> BenC, blind?
[04:51] <xhaker> the screen is blank
[04:51] <xhaker> i can type tho.. but cannot see what
[04:52] <BenC> no idea what that is
[04:52] <xhaker> BenC, me neither, pretty confusing
[04:53] <xhaker> well, one thing is good, using the normal fb works great on my laptop without loosing lines
[05:07] <xhaker> BenC, sorry to bother you again.. noticed an error on my boot.. the first thing that's outputed to the screen
[05:07] <xhaker> is this: error ports already open /dev/hdc
[05:08] <xhaker> might have something to do with my cdrom drive not working
[05:21] <lamont> grumble.
[05:21] <lamont> ECHAN
[05:22] <BenC> xhaker: it's an ide-generic load issue, there's already a bug on udev for it
[05:23] <BenC> xhaker: you can blacklist ide-generic to fix it
[05:24] <xhaker> BenC,  thank you
[06:02] <xhaker> argh :/
[06:03] <xhaker> BenC, blacklisted ide-generic both on hotplug/blacklist.d and on modprode.d/blacklist
[06:03] <xhaker> still the same
[09:27] <eruin> dri-enabled fglrx doesn't lock my system until i try playing sound.. I wonder how that's related
[10:08] <JaneW> Could those that have their status updates already prepared please send them to me before the meeting so that I can start on the report. Thanks.
[10:35] <lucas> hi
[10:36] <zakame> hey lucas :D
[10:59] <dholbach> hellas
[11:17] <dholbach> hey carstenh, how are you?
[11:21] <carstenh> dholbach: hi daniel, fine. i hope you too :)
[11:22] <dholbach> yeah, i'm in Trier now ;)
[11:23] <carstenh> hmm, i will leave it i a few hours. :/
[11:24] <carstenh> bad timing...
[11:33] <Pupeno> Hello.
[11:33] <Pupeno> Is Linux on Dapper compiled for real-time scheduling ?
[11:49] <pitti> mvo: ping
[11:49] <mvo> pitti: pong
[11:54] <ogra> hmm, extremly strange .... obby did build on first attempt at 5:40 UTC, but gets rebuilt every 2h ???
[11:55] <\sh> ogra: umh??
[11:55] <ogra> according to http://tiber.tauware.de/cgi-bin/buildlogs.cgi
[11:56] <\sh> ogra: i don't even see a -changes mail 
[11:56] <ogra> the first build attempt was ~5:00 UTC and built on all arches
[11:56] <ogra> there was none ...
[11:56] <ogra> thats the other strange thing 
[11:57] <\sh> ogra: there is one 
[11:57] <\sh> ogra: auto-changes
[11:57] <ogra> ah
[11:57] <ogra> great 
[11:58] <ejofee> ok. so this chan is not for support (even with dapper). then there's #ubuntu for general discussion. there's even #ubuntu-motu for getting involved in development... then what on earth is #ubuntu-devel for?! :P
[11:58] <ogra> \sh, but it needs NEWing ... pkern puts the version number in the binary name :/
[11:59] <ogra> so i still have to wait with my gobby upload ...
[11:59] <siretart> ejofee: for the development of ubuntu, espc. the 'main' section
[11:59] <\sh> ogra: and from seeing this http://people.ubuntu.com/~lamont/buildLogs/byDate/today.html obby is in given back state
[11:59] <ejofee> siretart: i see. thanks.
[12:00] <ogra> \sh, very strange ... since it already built ... something must be broken 
[12:00] <\sh> ogra: I don't see a successfull build...
[12:01] <\sh> ogra: since 2005-12-20 there is no successful build of obby...all failed and given back
[12:02] <ogra> hmm, the buildlog script on tiber doesnt respect given-back ... my fault :/
[12:02] <ogra> so i was right :-D
[12:02] <ogra> something was broken :)
[12:04] <\sh> ogra: fix it :)
[12:04] <siretart> hey, X11R7 now officially released. great! :D
[12:04] <ogra> \sh, i will
[12:06] <\sh> elmo: please sync songwrite and opencv from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes thx
[12:13] <pitti> why do we have irssi in desktop???
[12:13] <Burglaptop> pitti: because if you bork your xorg.conf, it makes it really nice to be able to log in to #ubuntu and figure out why you borked it
[12:13] <pitti> hah, as if any novice could cope with it
[12:14] <pitti> well, but I see the point
[12:14] <Burglaptop> pitti: it is of particular security concern?
[12:14] <mvo> Burglaptop: is this the "official" reason for it?
[12:15] <pitti> Burglaptop: no, I just wondered why dist-upgrade wanted to install it
[12:15] <pitti> and it's another > 1MB package on the CD
[12:15] <\sh> because irssi is da hit :)
[12:15] <Burglaptop> mvo: no, but I it is a good use case
[12:15] <pitti> don't waste CD space with such stuff...
[12:15] <Burglaptop> mvo: make that, I think it is a good use case
[12:16] <mvo> Burglaptop: it's a bit artifical IMHO. I mean, people able to use irssi will have no problem with typing "apt-get install irssi" 
[12:16] <mvo> so I'm still wondering about it 
[12:16] <Burglaptop> mvo: possibly true
[12:17] <StevenK> You're making assumptions about irssi users.
[12:17] <Riddell_> Amaranth: yes, I have dapper on a powerpc
[12:17] <Burglaptop> mvo, pitti I would raise the issue on ubuntu-devel and see what other feedback we could get
[12:17] <pitti> that sounds good
[12:17] <pitti> maybe we find a small IRC client my mother could actually use :)
[12:18] <StevenK> xchat-tiny
[12:18] <seb128> imho irssi should not be on the desktop
[12:18] <seb128> that's duplication
[12:18] <mvo> I know that my gf would run away screeming when faced with one of them
[12:18] <StevenK> It links with nothing, so it uses nothing. :-P
[12:18] <mvo> (text-mode irc client that is :)
[12:18] <seb128> and place on the CD is not cheap :)
[12:19] <seb128> who listed irssi for desktop?
[12:20] <mvo> we should check the seeds file
[12:21] <pitti> uh, it's there since ages
[12:21] <pitti> bzr annotate:
[12:21] <pitti>     1 cjwatso |
[12:21] <seb128> yeah, was going to say that
[12:22] <seb128> pitti: speaking of IRC, dunno if you read on -desktop but xchat-gnome can be considered for promotion now :)
[12:22] <seb128> (no hurry can wait next year)
[12:22] <pitti> seb128: I read it, yes
[12:22] <pitti> seb128: can you have separate windows now?
[12:22] <ogra> eek, we really go for xchat-gnome ? 
[12:22] <seb128> k, because you didn't reply to anything I said this morning :)
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: yes, sorry, I booted a lot for kernel security update testing
[12:23] <seb128> ogra: mdz said we want to consider yet, so we switch
[12:23] <ogra> *shudder*
[12:23] <seb128> pitti: np, do you feel better today? :)
[12:23] <seb128> s/yet/it/
[12:23] <seb128> pitti: no
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: yes, considerably, thanks :)
[12:23] <seb128> (no separate windows)
[12:23] <pitti> seb128: that sucks
[12:23] <seb128> but I've filled it upstream
[12:24] <seb128> I've filled the chan list position, it got rejected
[12:24] <ogra> and no possibility to change the layout, enable longer scrollbacks or sane topic handling either i guess
[12:24] <seb128> saying that the sort of settings that clutter the UI and is not useful, you get used to the position quickly (which I agree with)
[12:24] <seb128> the use list is a button now
[12:24] <seb128> s/use/user
[12:25] <seb128> away is set by dbus with gnome-screensaver by example, it uses libnotify, etc ...  :)
[12:25] <mvo|xchat-gnome> I'm not sure a button scales 
[12:25] <seb128> mvo|xchat-gnome: why?
[12:25] <seb128> longer scrollback? it uses the same setting as xchat
[12:25] <mvo|xchat-gnome> the list is _huge_
[12:25] <ogra> yes, it has some very good fetures, but they dont weight out the drawbacks imho
[12:25] <seb128> what do you call "sane topic"?
[12:25] <ogra> seb128, i can adjust it in xchat
[12:26] <seb128> mvo|xchat-gnome: good reason to have a drop-down stuff and not it open all the time
[12:26] <ogra> i have it set to 1000 lines, so i can read the last night without having logging on 
[12:26] <seb128> ogra: alt-t, or use the menu
[12:26] <seb128> for the topic
[12:26] <mvo|xchat-gnome> it is certainly a lot better than last time I looked
[12:27] <seb128> xchat-gnome uses the same buffer as xchat
[12:27] <mvo|xchat-gnome> don't get me wrong, I'm not against it, I'm just not sure that the button is the right control for this
[12:27] <seb128> there is no UI setting for it that's all
[12:27] <seb128> mvo|xchat-gnome: suggestions are welcome :)
[12:27] <mvo|xchat-gnome> this is really a tricky question, I mean, I got very used to the old ui of xchat so ...
[12:27] <ogra> seb128, i cant stand that i cant scroll through it quickly and that it either only shows the beginning of the topic or eats a third of the display pace 
[12:27] <seb128> I don't say it's very good or whatever, but there is place for a lot of nice stuff and should be easier to get right than xchat
[12:28] <ogra> *space
[12:28] <dholbach> ogra: what eats a third of the space?
[12:28] <seb128> mvo|xchat-gnome: yeah, change is weird ... doesn't mean it's not good. It take me some days to be used to changes from tabs, but now I like it
[12:29] <seb128> ogra: how can't you scroll quickly?
[12:29] <ogra> the topic handling is completely wrong imho, but thats minor and i could live with it, not being able to flip the layout and the scrollback being not adjustable will kepp me at xchat
[12:29] <ogra> seb128, through the topic
[12:29] <seb128> grrrr
[12:29] <seb128> do you actually read what I said?
[12:29] <seb128> the buffer is the same as xchat
[12:29] <ogra> seb128, yes
[12:29] <seb128> there is just no UI atm
[12:29] <seb128> if you have it set it'll stay the same
[12:30] <mvo|xchat-gnome> ok, I buy it. where can I get a breezy backport for my laptop :P ?
[12:30] <ogra> seb128, as i aid, the topic handling is something i could bear ..
[12:30] <seb128> mvo|xchat-gnome: universe has it for some time :)
[12:30] <dholbach> mvo|xchat-gnome: ask on ubuntu-backports@ - they will have to backport libsexy too
[12:30] <ogra> but the other two issues make it unusable for me, its my major working tool...
[12:31] <seb128> ogra: I'm not speaking about topic but number of lines at screen
[12:31] <ogra> ah, scrollback ...?
[12:31] <seb128> that's what I call buffer
[12:31] <ogra> ok, one issue solved 
[12:31] <seb128> topic is topic
[12:31] <seb128> the user list position is just the kind of stuff you find weird for a day
[12:31] <ogra> so now i need a gconf key to flip the layout and i'll be half way happy :)
[12:31] <seb128> and get used to pretty quickly
[12:32] <ogra> i just want it on the right side, its totally distrating on the left, idont care about the design or that the channel win is above it etc... 
[12:33] <ogra> a gconf keya to be able to flip userlist/chatwindow would suffice ...
[12:33] <ogra> i tested longer than a day
[12:35] <seb128> it'll not change
[12:35] <seb128> it has been rejected by upstream
[12:35] <ogra> sad, so i'll stay with xchat ...
[12:35] <seb128> stay with whatever you want
[12:35] <seb128> we will switch it for desktop anyway :)
[12:35] <ogra> sure ... i wont be abe to do anything about it ...
[12:35] <Burglaptop> seb128: does xchat-gnome need to conflict with xchat?
[12:36] <seb128> but you will drop a lot of cool stuff for a left/right position ...
[12:36] <seb128> Burglaptop: it's fixed since 0.8, need to update xchat
[12:36] <ogra> but as i said, its one of my major working tools, so i want it not to annoy me ... i use it >10h a day ...
[12:36] <seb128> for next upload
[12:37] <seb128> ogra: that's just weird that you can't focus on a text area that takes most of the screen
[12:37] <seb128> or can't get used to a list to left or right
[12:37] <seb128> you don't have one once of flexibility, a shame for you :)
[12:37] <Burglaptop> seb128: I suspect that once they don't conflict and people can use them side by side, there might be more converts
[12:37] <ogra> seb128, the big white bar is distracting on the left 
[12:38] <ogra> seb128, yes, i'm a bonehead  :)
[12:39] <ogra> seb128, look at pitti, he has probs if he doesnt have his perfect screen layout ... thats how we germans are :P
[12:40] <pitti> well, not being able to read two channels at once is nowhere near 'perfect layout' :)
[12:40] <pitti> the xchat layout sucks as well, but at least I can have two channels side by side
[12:40] <seb128> I agree that's a valid usecase
[12:40] <seb128> and they have not rejected the bug
[12:40] <pitti> so let's hope ;)
[12:41] <dholbach> strange, why don't replies to malone mails show up on the bug? hmhmhm
[12:41] <seb128> the "let's have an option to move every UI part to left/right" is not worth an option
[12:41] <ogra> another thing is that i like to know how many people are in a channel, there seems to be no option to show that in the status bar ...
[12:41] <seb128> dholbach: because malone sucks still? :p
[12:41] <dholbach> hmhmrmhrmhrmhrmh
[12:41] <seb128> like it was something useful
[12:42] <seb128> who cares if there is  80 or 90 users in the chan?
[12:42] <seb128> and that's probably trivial to write a plugin for it
[12:42] <ogra> seb128, for the channels i maintain it is something useful ... and for a statistic freak like me anyway :P
[12:42] <seb128> write a plugin
[12:42] <seb128> a few lines of python should do the trick
[12:42] <ogra> that would imply i use the program :)
[12:43] <seb128> stop complaining for complaining
[12:43] <seb128> I'm happy to forward valid griefs like pitti's one upstream, but that is crap
[12:43] <seb128> if you need to special stat stuff just do a plugin or use another software
[12:43] <seb128> that's not something desktop users will look for to start
[12:44] <ogra> i agree that i'm not the typical desktop user sitting in front of a chat window more than 10h a day ...
[12:45] <Burglaptop> pitti: you made LWN
[12:46] <pitti> oh?
[12:46] <Burglaptop> Martin Pitt looks at locales restructuring and why a dist-upgrade might break. He also explains why this isn't a bug.
[12:46] <ogra> heh
[12:46] <mvo> they like our mails to u-d-a :)
[12:46] <slomo_> elmo: please sync service-discovery-applet from debian... ubuntu changes can be dropped
[12:46] <pitti> doesn't lwn have anything more interesting to report than transitions in development releases?
[12:47] <ogra> mvo, you should have announced the dbus transition, so you'd be on there as well :)
[12:47] <pitti> Burglaptop: I didn't explain why it isn't a bug; I explained why I won't fix it
[12:47] <Burglaptop> pitti: lwn tries to report just about everything they can
[12:47] <pitti> of course it is a bug, but it's not worth fixing it
[12:47] <mvo> ogra: haha, I should fish a bit for fame you mean?
[12:47] <ogra> it only occurs between two flight CDs 
[12:47] <mvo> I suppose it's the kind of news that is easy enough to get and add
[12:47] <ogra> mvo, yeah ...
[12:48] <ogra> lol
[12:50] <\sh> mvo: do it :) 
[01:05] <\sh> elmo: please sync libgettext-ruby , libgtk-trayicon-ruby , libopengl-ruby , ruby-gnome2 from unstable, dropping ubuntu changes thx
[01:55] <fabbione> doko: ping?
[01:55] <janimo> who is handling main uploader rights enabling? I have a ticket in rt.canonical since last Wed
[01:56] <fabbione> janimo: elmo
[01:56] <doko> fabbione: pong
[01:56] <fabbione> doko: OOo2 is FTBFS on ppc
[01:56] <fabbione> dunno if you noticed
[01:56] <doko> fabbione: yes, seen, but I don't understand the reason ...
[01:57] <fabbione> neither do i.. i am going to wait an ubuntu2 before trying on sparc
[01:57] <fabbione> since i was expecting it this morning :)
[02:04] <HiddenWolf> seb128, lol, who picked those gst-plugin-good/ugly package names?
[02:04] <seb128> upstream
[02:04] <HiddenWolf> seb128, will we have an 'ugly; too? ;)
[02:05] <seb128> that's the upstream name for the different tarball for it
[02:05] <seb128> we already have?
[02:05] <seb128> no?
[02:07] <HiddenWolf> seb128, nothing with ugly in the package name according to packages.u.c
[02:07] <seb128> it has not built yet
[02:07] <seb128> I though you were reading -changes from today
[02:07] <seb128> what was the comment about? where did you notice the names?
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> hm, I read changes. :)
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> ah, yes, sorry
[02:08] <seb128> you asked who picked the ugly package name
[02:08] <slomo_> HiddenWolf: we will get one with an even worse name later... plugins-ugly-multiverse ;)
[02:08] <seb128> and then you say there is no such package ...
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> seb128, I was confused. 
[02:08] <seb128> bad is not coming soon
[02:08] <slomo_> HiddenWolf: and plugins-bad are the broken plugins ;)
[02:09] <seb128> that's bugged code
[02:09] <HiddenWolf> seb128, it's just the humor of having packages refer to the movie.
[02:09] <HiddenWolf> The good, the bad, the ugly
[02:10] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: upstream names, too :)
[03:27] <mvo> anyone else having problems with launchpad.net? or is it just me?
[03:29] <dholbach> mvo: problems like what?
[03:30] <mvo> dholbach: like not geting anything but a white screen
[03:31] <dholbach> hm, looks fine for me
[03:41] <pitti> fabbione: yay, all kernels have built
[03:41] <fabbione> pitti: no! really????
[03:41] <pitti> fabbione: erm, why so surprised?
[03:41] <mvo> dholbach: works fine now after I restarted ff
[03:41] <fabbione> see.. that's why i get to have pre-test kernels :)
[03:42] <mhz> ogra: hi
[03:42] <pitti> fabbione: oh, I wasn't surprised *that* they built, just stated that they are ready for release now :)
[03:42] <mhz> ogra: i won't be able to  on for about 6 or 7 hours today, sorry.
[03:43] <ogra> mhz, no problem ...
[03:43] <fabbione> pitti: GO AHEAD! UNLEASH THE BEASTS! MAKE THE WORLD SUFFER IN HORRIBLE PAIN!
[03:48] <mjg59> Riddell: Yo
[03:48] <Riddell> mjg59: presumably HAL handles all the tricky hardware stuff and it just needs a fairly simple frontend on top
[03:49] <mjg59> Riddell: Basically, the reason to do it via HAL is because we get (a) a uniform mechanism, and (b) only the foreground user will be able to change the hardware state
[03:49] <Riddell> and gnome-power-manager uses this now?
[03:50] <BenC> how can I get the automated merge bugs to stop for a particular package?
[03:50] <mjg59> Riddell: g-p-m uses this now, but doesn't get the benefit of (b) until I write the dbus patch
[03:50] <fabbione> BenC: close the bug?
[03:50] <mjg59> Basically, you need something on the KDE side that sends a dbus signal requesting a suspend or hibernate
[03:51] <BenC> fabbione: but new ones keep getting reopened
[03:51] <fabbione> BenC: is that kernel-package?
[03:51] <BenC> yeah
[03:51] <fabbione> if so just assign it debzilla..
[03:51] <mjg59> Riddell: Then that needs to tie in to the kcontrol panel where users can choose what happens when the close the lid and so on
[03:51] <fabbione> make it owned by nobody :)
[03:51] <BenC> ok :)
[03:51] <fabbione> and it will stop spamming you
[03:52] <mjg59> Riddell: That's enough for now, but in the long run it should also get information about whether a sleep button exists, whether the hardware supports suspend and so on from HAL as well
[03:52] <janimo> mjg59, so this will replace calling pmi actions from gdm?
[03:52] <mjg59> janimo: Yes
[03:52] <janimo> cool
[03:53] <Riddell> mjg59: doesn't sound too difficult to do, I doubt I have time but I'll try and poke some people in the right direction
[03:53] <mjg59> Riddell: Rocking
[03:53] <janimo> mjg59, does this power manager daemon dep only on hal/dbus or does it grow gnomedeps like vfs and bonobo?
[03:54] <janimo> it'd be nice to integrate with xfce too
[03:54] <janimo> I see it depends on some gnome stuff but don't know how essential it is
[03:54] <ogra> janimo, should be possible to rip out ...
[03:55] <janimo> ogra, I'd like to rip it out cleanly so it's not a fork if possible
[03:55] <ogra> janimo, talk to hughsie in #hal :)
[03:55] <hno73> does anyone know if gfxboot will have support for mouse when the user selects a language?
[03:55] <ogra> he is upstream 
[03:55] <jbailey> Why is my dist-upgrade bringing in irssi?
[03:55] <janimo> ogra, thanks noted
[03:55] <ogra> jbailey, you removed it ? 
[03:55] <zul> jbailey: because irssi core dumps and its apart of main i think
[03:56] <jbailey> ogra: I have never had it installed.
[03:56] <ogra> jbailey, it has been in the desktop seed since ... ever ? 
[03:56] <jbailey> Weird.  
[03:58] <Amaranth> hrm, someone said my name, but way past my scrollback
[03:58] <sivang> weird. Does anybody know about firefox popup that comes on without any apparent reason and asks to confirm an SSL certificate for *.mozilla.org even when not connecting there?
[03:58] <jbailey> ogra: irssi-text is, but not irssi from the looks of it.
[03:58] <sivang> when approved, firefox says somethign about connecting to somwehre not remotely related to moz.org
[03:58] <Amaranth> sivang: it's probably trying to check for updates
[03:59] <zakame> sivang: I've seen that in firefox under windows
[03:59] <ogra> jbailey, ah... 
[03:59] <mjg59> janimo: The daemon side of things would still be managed by KDE, it would just use HAL to get information about the system
[03:59] <mjg59> And to do the actual state transitions
[03:59] <mjg59> janimo: Or are you thinking about from an xfce point of view?
[04:01] <janimo> mjg59, I am thinking xfce now
[04:01] <janimo> and was thinkoing how much of g-p-m uses gnome libs
[04:01] <janimo> some of the apps in ubuntu use gnome while they could with a bit of effort get away with plian gtk
[04:02] <janimo> but I'll check it out once is working nicely in ubuntu
[04:09] <Riddell> at about announing to u-d-a for lwn fame
[04:09] <Riddell> ogra: what was that about announing to u-d-a for lwn fame
[04:09] <mjg59> janimo: The front-end uses gnome libs, but the backend should be fine
[04:09] <pappan> how do i get the ubuntu kernel source from my linux machine
[04:09] <ogra> Riddell, ubuntu-devel-announce mails are reported on linux weekly news recently :)
[04:10] <ogra> so sending something there makes you a celebrity *g*
[04:11] <kent_> pappan, #ubuntu for those questions - and its in the archives.
[04:12] <jsgotangco> wow
[04:17] <Pupeno> What schedule is compiled on Dapper's Linux ?
[04:18] <pitti> crimsun_: ping
[04:21] <sivang> Amaranth: have you also seen that on your system?
[04:21] <Amaranth> sivang: nope
[04:22] <zakame> Pupeno: er you mean scheduler?
[04:22] <Pupeno> zakame: yes.
[04:23] <zakame> Pupeno: hm I see all 4 (or 5) in breezy, I myself am currently using cfq
[04:23] <sivang> zakame: let me know if you encounter that on Ubuntu as well
[04:23] <zakame> sivang: sure, I'm all yours :)
[04:24] <Pupeno> zakame: in breezy ? how ? breezy uses 2.6.12 and the possibility to choose different scheduler was added on 2.6.13, furthermore I believe there are only 3 schedulers, are we talking about different things ? where do you 'see' them ?
[04:24] <zakame> sivang: though on windows I encountered that with fx 1.0.2
[04:24] <zakame> Pupeno: err, at `dmesg | pager`?
[04:25] <zakame> Pupeno: I set my preferred scheduler at the bootparams, e.g. `elevator=cfq'
[04:25] <Pupeno> zakame: dmesg | grep 'cfq' shows me nothing, am I missing something ?
[04:26] <zakame> Pupeno: grep 'scheduler'
[04:26] <Nafallo> grep scheduler /var/log/dmesg
[04:26] <sivang> zakame: thx :)
[04:26] <Pupeno> Nafallo: nothing either.
[04:27] <Pupeno> are you runninig 6.2.12 ?
[04:27] <Pupeno> oh, on another box the schedulers appear.
[04:27] <zakame> Pupeno: we seem to have noop anticipatory deadline and cfq
[04:27] <zakame> Pupeno: 6.2? not yet
[04:27] <zakame> 2.6 is
[04:27] <Pupeno> er 2.6 I mean.
[04:28] <Pupeno> have the schedulers patch been backported to 2.6.12 by Debian/Ubuntu devs ?
[04:28] <Amaranth> man, i bet in 6.2 my music still skips when i copy a large file
[04:28] <zakame> Amaranth: hrhr
[04:30] <Pupeno> which one is the scheduler for low lattency then ? cfq ?
[04:36] <zakame> cfq's good for desktops, deadline and noop for dbservers i think
[04:37] <Pupeno> zakame: I need the scheduler that can deliver very low latency (<3ms) for audio.
[04:38] <zakame> Pupeno: for that you should also explore realtime-lsm, maybe even jack
[04:38] <zakame> schedulers alone won't be a factor
[04:38] <Pupeno> zakame: I am working on both of them, but they are complementary.
[04:39] <Pupeno> I have seted realtime-lsm before and I have run jackd before, I am only missing a Linux with low latency.
[04:39] <Pupeno> Let's see.
[04:40] <zakame> Pupeno: rock on then :)
[04:44] <zakame> elmo: hi, please sync gpdf from Sid, overriding Ubuntu changes ok.  Thanks, and Happy Holidays! :)
[04:47] <psusi> I don't like the io schedulers because they screw up the ordering and lower throughput when I mess around with multiple overlapped O_DIRECT async IO requests to see how fast I can push my drives ;)
[05:06] <frans-th> hwhere is hmb? i need it
[05:06] <frans-th> need him
[05:55] <johnl> hi, libsane-extras in dapper universe relies on libsane 1.0.17, but dapper only has libsane 1.0.16   how can that be?
[05:56] <seb128> johnl: if the package is not modifed sync are done automatically from Debian, maybe the first is unmodified but not the second
[05:57] <johnl> ah ic
[05:57] <johnl> is that a bug that I need to report then?  even though universe isn't supported
[05:58] <seb128> libsane with be updated, there is probably already a bug about that
[05:59] <seb128> there is automatic bugs for packages that need to be synced from Debian
[06:00] <johnl> ok.  thanks.
[06:00] <seb128> np
[06:01] <aroman> Hi
[06:01] <aroman> I'm trying to install kUbuntu-dapper-flight2... any way to tell it NOT to load firewire modules?
[06:02] <aroman> because if it loads firewire, IRQ11 gets disabled for me (toshiba laptop), so I can't use network at all...
[06:27] <aroman> what type of filesystem does initrd.gz use?
[06:27] <aroman> :/
[06:27] <aroman> cramfs? it's not ext2 or ext3, since I can't mount it...
[06:28] <siretart> aroman: which initrd? the new ones from breezy/dapper created by initramfs?
[06:28] <aroman> dapper
[06:28] <siretart> aroman: those new style initrd are just compressed cpio archives
[06:28] <siretart> extract them with cpio
[06:28] <aroman> hmm... so, how would I go about modifying them?
[06:29] <siretart> extracting and recreating them
[06:30] <aroman> siretart: any special options when I re-create the archive and the .gz?
[06:30] <siretart> I think its just a compressed cpio archive, if in doubt, consider looking at the source of initramfs-tools
[06:33] <aroman> oy... now that dapper's moving away from hotplug, how can I preven a module from being loaded?
[06:34] <siretart> aroman: using the keyword 'blacklist' in /etc/modprobe.d/*
[06:34] <siretart> there should be some examples in that dir
[06:34] <aroman> ok thank you
[06:35] <aroman> um ok... I didn't ask the right question...sorry
[06:35] <aroman> I mean, in the initrd.gz root filesystem?
[06:35] <aroman> same procedure? because there is no /etc/modprobe.d
[06:38] <aroman> hmm... I could just remove the actual modules from /lib/modules... since I don't even use them
[07:04] <siretart> aroman: how can you have no /etc/modprobe.d/*?!
[07:05] <siretart> aroman: in the new world oder you rather configure modprobe than the thingy loading the modules (read: udev)
[07:05] <siretart> regarding to avoid loading modules
[07:16] <aroman> siretart: look, the initrd.gz contained in the latest netboot.tar.gz has no /etc/modprobe.d/*
[07:20] <siretart> aroman: oh, I was rather talking about the installed system, not inside the initramfs
[07:21] <aroman> siretart: well, my problem is that I don't get network unless I disable firewire (if firewire gets loaded, I get IRQ 11 getting disabled)
[07:21] <aroman> and if I don't get network, I can't install :(
[07:22] <aroman> and my initrd.gz doesn't work :( my laptop just hangs... 
[07:26] <siretart> ah, I see
[07:26] <siretart> so, you need a special initramfs anyway. I think it would be indeed most practicable to just delete the firefire modules from the initramfs
[07:28] <aroman> ok I've looked at initramfs_tools source and got the exact command that creates the initrd.gz
[07:29] <aroman> I get a few of these kind of errors though:
[07:29] <aroman> cpio: ./sbin/blockdev: No such file or directory
[07:29] <aroman> and /sbin/blockdev is an invalid symlink to /bin/busybox
[07:29] <aroman> as are all the others
[07:29] <aroman> harmless?
[07:30] <siretart> sorry, I'm not that familar with initramfs, too
[07:42] <aroman> and why the heck is my intrd coming up as 283MB?! :S
[07:42] <aroman> when du -hs prints 15MB for the uncompressed stuff? :/
[07:51] <aroman> ok... got it working
[07:51] <aroman> goodie.... it doesn't recognize my network card :(
[07:51] <aroman> curses
[08:00] <thesaltydog>  is malone now for all bugs, or still just for universe?
[08:02] <Am|NickTaken> universe
[08:59] <mjg59> Is anyone maintaining network-manager nowadays?
[09:02] <Burgwork> mjg59, network magic is keybuks domain, but I don't know if he is doing anything with it
[09:05] <Burgwork> thesaltydog, eventually everything will be in malone
[09:06] <seb128> Nafallo has updated nm to 0.5.1-0ubuntu5 yesterday
[09:07] <mjg59> seb128: Ah, yes
[09:09] <_xhaker> hello all :)
[09:11] <Burgwork> mjg59, you want http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1403
[09:12] <xhaker> BenC, sorry for misreporting that blacklisting ide-generic didn't make this able to detect my dvd drive.. it does.. just forgot to update-initramfs, i have to modprobe ide-disk everytime i boot tho
[09:13] <BenC> ok, that's all a udev issue
[09:13] <xhaker> true
[09:14] <xhaker> that's why i messed up earlier.. blacklisting is kinda different
[09:14] <mjg59> Burgwork: I've got it
[09:15] <mjg59> That was its behaviour in breezy, though - I'm not sure why it would have changed in dapper
[09:17] <Burgwork> mjg59, "that was its behaviour" - you mean pressing the button brought up the logout dialog?
[09:18] <mjg59> No
[09:18] <mjg59> Shutting down the machine
[09:18] <mjg59> It's never done anything else
[09:19] <Burgwork> that is bug, IMHO
[09:19] <mjg59> It's something that gets fixed with the move to the new configuration stuff, so I'm fairly unconcerned righ tnow
[09:20] <Burgwork> ah, ok
[09:26] <thesaltydog> Burgwork, does it mean that main bugs are still in bugzilla at the moment?
[09:29] <mjg59> pitti: What's the best way to ship a small suid binary with dbus?
[09:29] <pitti> mjg59: 'way' -> packaging?
[09:30] <mjg59> pitti: Yes
[09:30] <thesaltydog> is italian firefox localization in dapper a known bug? It won't upgrade from breezy..
[09:30] <mjg59> pitti: is messagebus an allocated user, or a dynamic one?
[09:31] <pitti> mjg59: it's a system user (> 100)
[09:31] <pitti> mjg59: i. e. ship with 0755, chmod in postinst
[09:31] <mjg59> pitti: Ok
[09:31] <pitti> mjg59: after the adduser
[09:31] <mjg59> pitti: And chown?
[09:31] <pitti> yes, of course
[09:31] <mjg59> No problem
[09:31] <pitti> 4754, I assume?
[09:31] <mjg59> Yeah
[09:32] <Burgwork> thesaltydog, yes
[09:33] <Burgwork> thesaltydog, to the bugzilla question
[09:33] <pitti> mjg59: oh, are you going to upload dbus soon?
[09:33] <thesaltydog> ok.. thanks.
[09:33] <pitti> mjg59: if so, could you please do me a favor?
[09:33] <mjg59> pitti: Wasn't planning on it - I was going to send a diff to mvo
[09:33] <pitti> ah, ok
[09:34] <pitti> I'd like to have a small improvement of the dbus-1-utils package description
[09:34] <mjg59> But I guess I could later on - what do you want doing?
[09:34] <mjg59> Ah, ok
[09:34] <pitti> but it's not worth a separate upload
[09:35] <seb128> if somebody does an upload, today's fix by mvo is wrong
[09:35] <mjg59> pitti: What I've done for now is basically to change the at_console policy to check for /var/foo/bar/username:vt
[09:36] <mjg59> pitti: Then I'll probably just add a small pam module (or alternatively hack pam_console) to create that
[10:26] <crimsun_> pitti: pong, just got in and read e-mail. Checking.
[10:29] <pitti> hi daniels 
[10:30] <daniels> good morning captain
[10:31] <daniels> morning all
[10:31] <dholbach> hellas daniels :)
[10:31] <seb128> hi daniels
[10:32] <dholbach> hi seb128 :)
[10:32] <seb128> hey dholbach
[10:34] <Pygi> hello all ;)
[10:34] <pitti> hi Pygi 
[10:35] <pitti> hi lamont__ 
[10:47] <Pygi> ho, BenC, fixed any new bugs lately? ;)
[10:47] <BenC> yeah, but it never seems like there's any less bugs than when I started :)
[10:48] <Pygi> BenC: well, I suppose you got used to it after all that time smashing bugs ;)
[10:48] <Pygi> As what is most bad, is if you create a patch for the bug which then produces two or three new bugs ;)
[10:48] <Pygi> now, that's bad ;)
[10:58] <TheMuso> Merry Christmas to you. Hope you have an enjoyable Christmas where ever
[10:59] <dholbach> good night everybody
[10:59] <dholbach> themuso: you too :)
[11:00] <Pygi> night
[11:00] <lamont__> pitti: hi
[11:05] <floam> what the fuck
[11:05] <floam> I thought the input garbage was all fixed for RC4
[11:06] <Pygi> floam: please don't use that kind of words in here ;) thank you ;)
[11:06] <floam> yeah, I appolgize. I was perturbed for about 15 seconds, since I was expecting it to all magically be fixe
[11:06] <floam> fixed
[11:06] <daniels> it's supposed to be, but boy am I motivated to fix any potential problems now
[11:07] <floam> :)
[11:07] <floam> s/app/ap/
[11:08] <seb128> daniels: like making it fast without the cairo workaround? :)
[11:09] <daniels> seb128: we're working on it
[11:10] <seb128> cool
[11:10] <mvo> seb128: cairo workaound? 
[11:10] <daniels> mvo: basically, nautilus backgrounds are screwed
[11:10] <floam> the mouse buttons are no longer swapped, but gnome-settings-daemon still freaks out if I'm using evdev
[11:10] <daniels> if cairo does the compositing client-side, it's normal speed
[11:11] <daniels> if X does it, it's arse-slow, and all done in software
[11:11] <seb128> floam: buttons mouse issue is fixed
[11:11] <irvin> hello all
[11:11] <floam> seb128: yeah, I notice
[11:11] <mvo> daniels: ah, thanks. I remeber now :)
[11:11] <floam> I wonder why gsd crashes
[11:11] <floam> seems to be klavier
[11:12] <seb128> floam: it's xkeyboard-config bog
[11:13] <seb128> floam: gconftool-2 -R /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd
[11:13] <daniels> if klavier crashes, 'tis klavier bug, for sucking at error handling :P
[11:13] <floam> I didn't know what it was. It seemed to be in a function with klavier in it's name
[11:13] <seb128> quite true
[11:13] <floam> seb128: what will that do?
[11:13] <seb128> print your config
[11:13] <seb128> so you can copy it
[11:14] <seb128> and I can blame xorg :p
[11:14] <floam> do you want it?
[11:14] <seb128> yep
[11:14] <floam>  layouts = [] 
[11:14] <floam>  model =
[11:14] <floam>  options = [grp_led     grp_led:scroll,eurosign eurosign:5,Compose key  compose:ralt] 
[11:14] <floam>  overrideSettings = true
[11:14] <daniels> so don't have an empty layouts list
[11:14] <seb128> no layouts, hum
[11:14] <floam> I didn't empty it
[11:14] <seb128> how did you do this?
[11:14] <daniels> or an empty model
[11:14] <floam> I didn't empty anything
[11:14] <floam> this is all vanilla ubuntu I havn't touched gconf in that area
[11:14] <daniels> seb128: so much for blaming xorg, I guess
[11:14] <daniels> dude, it is *not* vanilla
[11:15] <floam> as in unaltered
[11:15] <daniels> i can give you an absolutely ironclad guarantee that we do *not* set up compose:ralt, or grp_led:scroll
[11:15] <floam> of course it's dapper and unsafe and etc.
[11:15] <daniels> i don't think we set up eurosign:5 either
[11:15] <daniels> so you have altered the keyboard preferences
[11:15] <floam> daniels: that's just something I did through the GUI
[11:15] <floam> I never unset anything
[11:15] <seb128> floam: for sure you touched the keyboard capplet
[11:15] <floam> yes
[11:15] <daniels> ...
[11:15] <seb128> what layout it selected from it?
[11:15] <floam> but that applet shouldn't allow me to totally destroy things, idealy :P
[11:16] <seb128> it doesn't
[11:16] <seb128> I can't delete the unique layout here
[11:16] <floam> Keyboard &model: Generic 104-key PC
[11:16] <floam> and the layout in the list is U.S. English
[11:16] <floam> it has no checkmark next to it in the Default column
[11:17] <floam> it's the only one so that shouldn't matter
[11:17] <seb128> hum, right
[11:17] <seb128> options are ok
[11:18] <floam> hm
[11:18] <floam> I touched everything, now
[11:18] <floam>  layouts = [us] 
[11:18] <floam>  model = pc105
[11:18] <floam>  options = [grp grp:alts_toggle] 
[11:18] <floam>  overrideSettings = true
[11:19] <floam> gsd still crashes though
[11:19] <daniels> what happens when you do setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout us -option grp:alts_toggle?
[11:19] <seb128> that will work
[11:19] <floam> it seems to work
[11:20] <seb128> setxkbmap -model pc105 -layout us -option grp:alts_toggle  -print | xkbcomp - :0.0
[11:20] <seb128> what about that?
[11:20] <floam> many warnings
[11:20] <seb128> that's all?
[11:20] <floam> yes
[11:20] <daniels> if it's about keys not having symbols, that's fine
[11:20] <floam> Warning:          No symbols defined for <I6F> (keycode 239)
[11:20] <seb128> so it should not crash with that config
[11:20] <seb128> are you sure g-s-d still crash?
[11:21] <floam> bunch of that/
[11:21] <floam> s/\//./
[11:23] <seb128> daniels: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/xorg/+bug/5740 is still buggy 
[11:24] <daniels> seb128: of course it's still buggy, it has an empty layout list ;)
[11:24] <daniels> i tried to comment on it, but malone didn't let me, and then I forgot about it
[11:24] <daniels> seb128: but yeah.  layout and model are compulsory.  only option and variant are optional.
[11:24] <daniels> (no pun intended.)
[11:24] <seb128> good point
[11:25] <daniels> -> breakfast
[11:25] <seb128> enjoy
[11:28] <floam> seb128: how are you so sure the issue is with the keyboard stuff? It works fine if I'm using the old mouse driver
[11:28] <floam> it only breaks when I'm using evdev for my mouse
[11:29] <floam> (where works fine means gsd doesn't crash, it still sucks because of it using mousedev)
[11:29] <seb128> oh
[11:29] <seb128> nop, I think it's not an xkb issue
[11:29] <floam> hmm
[11:30] <seb128> since the setxkbmap works fine
[11:30] <seb128> dunno what this evdev is though
[11:30] <floam> seb128: input driver that uses /dev/input/event*
[11:30] <floam> it supports many mouse buttons and tiltwheels and all the fancy new stuff
[11:32] <floam> among other things, it's also not specific to mice, it's for input devices of all sorts
[11:33] <floam> some people use it for their keyboards also
[11:34] <seb128> you could try running g-s-d with XKL_DEBUG=500 set
[11:34] <seb128> and not on what it chockes
[11:34] <floam> not on?
[11:35] <seb128> ?
[11:35] <seb128> what on?
[11:35] <floam> "and not on what it chokes"
[11:35] <floam> I'm not sure what you want me to not do :P
[11:35] <seb128> "note"
[11:35] <seb128> typo
[11:35] <floam> oh
[11:35] <floam> the last thing before it crashes is:
[11:35] <floam> [1135290899,150,xklavier.c:_XklGetAppState/]     Appwin 280001a, 'floam@amnesiac: ~' has the group 0, indicators 0
[11:35] <floam> [1135290899,160,xklavier.c:_XklLoadWindowTree/]          initial _xklCurClient: 280001a, 'floam@amnesiac: ~' with state 0/0
[11:36] <floam> which doesn't seem special
[11:36] <floam> The error was 'BadValue (integer parameter out of range for operation)'.
[11:36] <floam>   (Details: serial 1009 error_code 2 request_code 116 minor_code 0)
[11:36] <seb128> ah
[11:36] <seb128> that is an xorg bug somewhere probably
[11:38] <lifeless> meh
[11:38] <lifeless> seb128: have upstream gone in sane ?
[11:38] <lifeless> This message cannot be sent because the account you chose to send with is not enabled
[11:38] <floam> and: lavier.c:XklStartListen/]      The backend does not require manual layout management - but it is provided by the application
[11:38] <lifeless> ^ evolution bitching when I try to send from robertc@squid-cache.org
[11:38] <seb128> lifeless: activate the account, I don't really get why they did that
[11:39] <lifeless> seb128: but it cannot 'recieve' mail at all, ever
[11:39] <seb128> yeah, select "none" as account type
[11:39] <lifeless> ok
[11:41] <lifeless> seb128: thanks
[11:41] <seb128> np
[11:42] <lifeless> seb128: they must have a reason. I'd *love* a direct way to say 'I can send as FOO, but use my normal account details for everything else with the possible exception of gpg settings'
[11:43] <seb128> yeah, multiple email for one one reception account would be nice
[11:43] <lifeless> I'd also like a way to say 'receieve mai from this source, but it has no outbound details'
[11:43] <seb128> I've one IMAP server configured and a bunch of dummy accounts for that
[11:43] <lifeless> yeah
[11:43] <lifeless> me too, its frustrating
[11:46] <Burglaptop> lifeless, seb128: are either of you bugged by the fact that evo forwards as an attachment?
[11:47] <seb128> I almost never forward stuff so no
[11:47] <Burglaptop> are there any other mail clients out there that do that?
[11:47] <HrdwrBoB> er
[11:47] <HrdwrBoB> by default it does
[11:47] <HrdwrBoB> you can forward as whatever you like
[11:48] <HrdwrBoB> er... or at least in  a previous version you could
[11:48] <Burglaptop> HrdwrBoB: a)  I think it is a stupid default b) there is no way to set it globally (ie, I always want to forward as A or B)
[11:48] <HrdwrBoB> I agree
[11:48] <HrdwrBoB> though people constantly piss me off by forwarding in outlook which eats the headers
[11:49] <HrdwrBoB> and expect me to be able to debug their email problems with message content
[11:49] <Burglaptop> it is interesting how bad outlook is a client
[11:49] <Lathiat> HrdwrBoB: i also love it when it doesnt send the email 
[11:49] <Lathiat> HrdwrBoB: like you forward a message adn its From: <blah> with no email address
[11:49] <Burglaptop> there is a mailing list I follow that has a lot of windows users on it. Outlook breaks the threads constantly
[11:49] <Lathiat> Burglaptop: yeh i hate that
[11:50] <Burglaptop> the archives are also a total mess, because of the thread breaking
[11:50] <Burglaptop> hmm, http://www.koffice.org/competition/guiKOffice2.php
[11:52] <Burglaptop> we need an ubuntu-devel-offtopic
[11:53] <irvin> hello all
[11:53] <ogra> thats why we have ubuntu-devel-announce ...
[11:53] <irvin> are the scripts used in packages.ubuntu.com available online?
[11:53] <ogra> so all real important stuff can gi there
[11:54] <Burglaptop> ogra: no a channel, not a mailing list
[11:54] <ogra> irvin, mail the maintainer of p.u.c
[11:54] <ogra> Burglaptop, ah, yes
[11:54] <ogra> but we're all preparing for holiday anyway ... 
[11:54] <irvin> thanks ogra, guess i'll have to wait for the reply
[11:55] <Burglaptop> irvin: p.u.c and p.d.o are maintained by the same person
[11:55] <irvin> i see