/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/27/#ubuntu-doc.txt

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manickamdke: I noticed the link to the UDSF was removed from the wiki frontpage and replaced with a link to the forum/delta12:35
mdkemanicka, i didn't notice that, I'm subscribed to that page12:37
mdkeshow me12:38
manickahang on, let me check12:39
mdkeafaik, it's never been on the front page12:40
mdkethe forum delta has been on there for a long time tho12:40
manickahmmm, let me check my logs, I may have the wrong page12:40
mdkeyeah, i added the link to the forum delta page in July this year12:41
manickamy apologies, I had the wrong page12:41
mdkewhich page?12:42
manickaNothing has changed 12:42
mdkeah12:42
manickathat forum/delta page by the way is awful. I'm not surprised it hasn't been used very much12:46
mdkemanicka, awful in what way?12:46
manickathe layout/structure12:47
mdkemanicka, you understand that it is not supposed to be a place for users to learn right?12:48
mdkeit is a drop-off point for people who don't want to learn how to edit the wiki properly, and just want to paste in material12:49
mdkefeel free to improve it, of course12:49
mdkethat's what a wiki is all about12:49
manickaokay, the drop-off point concept had escaped me12:50
mdkemanicka, it's written right there on the page!12:50
manickalol, yeah I know12:50
mdkefirst paragraph12:51
manickaI should have read it more closely12:51
mdkeno wonder you don't like our wiki :(12:51
manickaI didn't know of it's existence until today12:51
manickaI never said I don't like the wiki12:51
manickaI use it all the time :)12:52
mdkemanicka,  [23:51:53]  <@dc> charm 12:53
mdkeargh12:53
mdkesorry bad paste12:53
mdkehttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=8199912:53
mdkethere is an explanation of how it is intended to work there12:53
manickaso how much of the stuff pasted there gets turned into userdocs12:54
mdkei don't know12:55
mdkehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Postfix was originally there12:55
mdkei guess whenever someone has some spare time12:56
mdkethat page still needs a fair amount of work too :)12:56
manickahmm, you need someone to take hold of that project and make it happen12:57
manickaif users paste stuff there then it sits there for months, then there's not much incentive12:57
mdkeyeah that is very true12:58
mdketaking a look now, some of the stuff is very out of date, it's obviously been sitting there a while12:58
Bonzodogwe have a different way of doing things..we have people who trawl the forums, and we work with other teams, and we get the tweaker teams to paste links in to use how-to's etc into a 'threads to doc' page. The TB team members then go through that page and start porting the stuff from the forums or sites linked to 01:00
Bonzodogonce it is added it is immediately accessible by anyone01:00
mdkethat's not a different way of doing things, it's the same, but more organised and with more people01:00
Bonzodogthere is no approval period01:00
mdkethink of what you call 'threads to doc' as the forum section on wiki.u.c, it's really the same thing01:01
mdkewhen it comes down to it, the only difference is that regular work is going into it on gwos01:02
mdkewhereas wiki.u.c/forum is a bit more stagnant01:02
Bonzodogyou see 'threads to doc' only contains links, nothing else01:02
Bonzodogalso, the how-to's are forum guides, not official ways of doing things01:02
manickaBonzo: so are the userdocs on the wiki01:03
Bonzodogthey maybe a 'shortcut' that someone has found, or someones individual way of performing a well known but difficult tasks01:03
mdkei don't see how that is a difference01:04
Bonzodogwe were always given to understand that the wiki would only host 'official' methods of doing things01:04
mdkeBonzodog, define "official"01:05
Bonzodogand the wiki edits would also be quarantined until they were seen as fit to add by a member of the doc team01:05
mdkeBonzodog, we prefer to only add documents to the _index_ when they are finished and are fit for users yes, but otherwise, the wiki is totally open.01:06
mdkeyou can create a page called "TalkingRubbish" and fill it with whatever you like, it's all open01:06
Bonzodog'official' - methods as defined in the software manuals and faq's01:07
mdkeBonzodog, which software manuals and faqs?01:07
Bonzodogi'm trying to think of the best definition. 01:08
mdkethere isn't one ;)01:08
manickabonzo: my understanding has always been that the userdocs sections are open to anyone01:09
mdkeor rather, if there is, it doesn't include even half of the material on the wiki01:09
Bonzodogyou see, i've entered into this argument late, and i'm trying desperately to understand why there is a dis-agreement between the two doc teams01:11
mdkei was in it early, and I havne't got a clue01:11
manickalol, it's confusing at times01:12
BonzodogI do think gwos does serve a useful purpose, and that both wikis should co-exist01:12
mdkeBonzodog, reasons?01:14
mdkeput them on that page :)01:15
Bonzodogwe are doing01:15
BonzodogIt would be nice to be able to get launchpad recognition for being on the forum teams01:15
mdkeyou have to ask the forum team admins01:17
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jsgotangcohey guys01:19
jsgotangcomdke, grokking hard on the wiki eh?01:19
mdkehello jerome01:19
mdkedoing some tidying01:19
jsgotangconice01:19
jsgotangcoanyways01:19
jsgotangcomdke, were you able to check the logs 2 days ago about some random discussion we did here01:20
mdkei saw it01:20
jsgotangcothe review thing01:20
mdkeoh no, not that01:20
mdkeremind me?01:20
jsgotangcowell i thought of having a revew week of sorts before every milestone comes out01:20
mdkesounds like a clever idea, what would it entail?01:21
jsgotangcoi thought of writing again, but a lot stuff was already written and who knows what's on the mind of the current maintainers01:21
jsgotangcoi wouldn't want to be invasive when i start writing01:21
jsgotangcoso i thought of writing on the doc but in comments01:21
mdkeeh?01:22
mdkethere is so much stuff missing from the docs still :)01:22
jsgotangcoyes01:22
mdkego ahead and write!01:22
jsgotangcoit was just an idea pulled off from REVU01:22
mdkehmm01:23
mdkethe idea of reviewing stuff before milestones sounds good01:23
jsgotangcoand i think we should properly document ourselves first :)01:23
mdkebut I don't think you should get slowed down by anything01:23
jsgotangcoat least update our wiki pages01:23
=== jsgotangco grins
mdkethere are already too few people working on the docs01:23
jsgotangconot at all01:24
mdkejsgotangco, sure we can work on the wiki pages, but they are actually not too bad01:24
jsgotangcomdke, i just thought of pretty wild ideas while i was drunk with 3 cans of red bull01:25
mdkehehe01:25
mdkethe wiki pages do need love, definitely01:25
mdkei was thinking we should move to a subpage01:25
jsgotangconot a bad idea01:27
jsgotangcoit'll still get indexed by the search engine right?01:28
mdkeyes01:28
mdkeooh nice Navigation macro01:29
mdkewho wrote that?01:29
mdkehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility01:29
jsgotangcohenrik or perhaps luke01:31
mdkeoh it comes with Moin doh01:31
mdkelooks like they've customised it tho01:32
jsgotangcothere is pretty good progress with the a11y team01:32
mdkelooks good01:33
mdkethats really great01:33
mdke-> bed01:37
jsgotangcolater01:43
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=== Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Website http://doc.ubuntu.com | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct
=== Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by Burgundavia at Tue Nov 8 03:34:59 2005
k31thMorning all09:54
Madpilothi10:05
k31thMadpilot: watsup ?10:08
Madpilotnot much, just finishing Christmas wrapping10:10
=== jsgotangco awaits a gift from canada somewhere in victoria
Madpilotjsgotangco: not this year, sorry :P10:11
=== rob1 pokes his head in
=== mdke grabs rob1
rob1hi mdke 10:26
mdkehello :(10:26
rob1?10:26
mdkewhere have you been?10:26
rob1busy10:26
rob1end of year stuff with work (admin crap), family bbqs and stuff10:27
mdkeso what shall we do with the desktopguide?10:27
mdkewe tried to have a meeting last week...10:27
mdkecan we try again?10:27
rob1yeah10:27
rob1when?10:27
mdkerob1, whenever you can actually turn up10:27
mdkeany times when you can definitely make it?10:28
jsgotangcorob1, i asked IOSN about you but they prefer people from developing countries10:28
rob1mdke, I don't remember seeing a time set10:28
rob1jsgotangco, sure np10:28
mdkerob1, it was last sunday10:29
rob1jsgotangco, thanks10:29
mdkethis sunday is not an option, maybe next week?10:29
rob1umm..10:29
jsgotangcorob1, maybe you can say you're on asylum haha10:29
rob1heh10:29
rob1mdke, who apart from the two of us do you want to have attend the meeting?10:30
mdkeMadpilot10:31
mdkeif poss, and anyone else who will work on the desktopguide10:32
rob1maybe we need some kind of wiki page where intrested people can put their names down? perhaps put down a suggested time?10:33
mdkesure10:34
mdkebut you have to be there, IMO10:34
MadpilotOgMaciel was interested too10:34
mdkeso I'll work around you10:34
rob1well I have nothing on tonight if those people happen to be around (for the next 5 hours or so10:35
rob1mdke, Madpilot is around now if your keen10:35
mdkei'm at work, will have to go in a minute10:35
mdke:(10:35
rob1ah dang10:35
Madpilotit's 0136 here, need sleep soon10:36
rob1dam time difference10:36
mdkerob1, we'll go the wiki page route I guess, we can email too10:36
rob1yeah ok10:37
jsgotangcorob1, let's move elsewhere, like mdke 's pad 10:37
rob1sure why not!10:37
mdkehmm10:37
jsgotangcorob1, he's a lawyer, i'm sure he can let us bum around10:37
mdkei bet sabdfl's place is nicer10:37
jsgotangcoand he can feed us forever10:37
rob1yeah, hes gotta be cashed up10:37
rob1him too10:38
jsgotangcoyeah but he already has a posse while mdke still has to create one while his empire grows10:38
rob1heh10:38
jsgotangcobetter to start early10:38
mdketrue10:38
rob1free food/money/airline tickets would help!10:39
mdkerob1, one quick thing10:39
rob1yeah10:39
mdkeis the "mk" file in the desktopguide folder the up to date one?10:39
mdkeif so, let's switch to using that10:39
jsgotangcomdke, adopt us and we can do ubuntu work under your name10:40
jsgotangcoheh10:40
rob1no, I move it all to the proper make file10:40
rob1+d10:40
mdkerob1, i like the idea of using decentralised makefiles, it will be easier to keep the main makefile under control, and for translations10:40
mdkedoes that "mk" one work?10:40
rob1mdke, sure I have no problem with that10:40
rob1I think its a bit dated, might not include everything it needs to10:41
mdkeok i'll compare the two10:41
rob1you could just copy/paste from the original make file10:41
=== mdke nods
rob1whos been going screenshot crazy on svn?10:42
rob1well thumbs anyway10:42
mdkemgalvin, they are from his dapper release notes thing on the wiki10:43
rob1ah10:44
mdkeok -> work10:44
mdkelater all10:44
rob1cya10:44
=== mdke comes back
rob1?10:48
rob1did you quit?10:48
jsgotangcosee?10:48
jsgotangcoour favorite barrister doesn't need to work!10:48
jsgotangcothe money just comes in!10:48
mdkeyeah my supervisor isn't in yet and i have nothing on10:48
mdkeMadpilot, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ApacheMySQLPHP <-- rock!10:48
mdkejust noticing some hot stuff on the wiki10:49
jsgotangcomdke, wow i didn't know lawyers had supervisors...10:49
mdkejsgotangco, trainee lawyers do10:49
jsgotangcoahhh10:49
mdkehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/Madwifi-ng10:49
mdkehttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/WelcomeToPython10:49
rob1In russia, the lawyers supervise you!10:50
jsgotangcomdke, a little grease doesn't hurt10:51
jsgotangcolol10:51
jsgotangcojoke10:51
Madpilotmdke: a fair bit of that page is from either the wiki or was already there; I've just done a lot of editing & a few additions10:51
rob1whats with the odd google logos on google?10:53
mdkeMadpilot, isn't it ready for UserDocumentation?10:53
mdkeoh its there10:54
mdkeweird10:54
jsgotangcoholiday doodle10:54
mdkedidn't see it when I did a title search :(10:54
mdkestupid moin10:54
Madpilotmdke: no, it's there, and it's fine, but most of it isn't actually my work, that's all ;)10:56
mdkeMadpilot, np, it's great anyway10:56
Madpilotmdke: you writing wiki articles for the Fridge, then?10:59
mdke?11:00
mdkeyou mean, an entry about cool wiki pages?11:01
Madpilotyeah, that's what I meant...11:01
mdkethat is the greatest idea ever11:02
Madpilotwasn't it brought up at the last DocTeam meeting or last CC Meeting?11:02
=== Madpilot is getting his meetings confused...
=== mdke doesn't remember it
mdkeperhaps we can include it in the docteam newsletter idea11:02
rob1umm.. someone was asking us about wiki pages the other day for the fridge11:03
mdkeah, who?11:03
mdkeif we can put together a nice newsletter, we can ask for it to be posted on the fridge11:03
rob1umm..11:03
rob1c- something11:03
rob1crimsum?11:04
mdkecould be?11:04
mdkei've only seen whiprush and jdub posting to the fridge11:04
Madpilotcrimsun?11:05
jsgotangcomr. fridge and fridge jr.11:05
rob1might have been whiprush 11:06
rob1it was someone..11:06
mdkeok let's let them ,know we'll prepare a rocking newsletter, on the wiki, and post it around the place11:06
mdkeUDN style11:06
Madpilotsounds good to me11:06
rob1yeah we (the people around at the time) did, and gave them several wiki pages to look at featuring11:07
mdkeah cool11:08
Madpilotneed sleep - later, all11:17
rob1cya Madpilot 11:17
Kamping_Kaiserlater mate11:17
k31this anyone else having a problem with this mirror ?? http://seveas.ubuntulinux.nl11:28
mdkek31th, you have to try in #ubuntu about that sort of thing11:29
k31thok11:30
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dholbachare you aware of this breakage:12:37
dholbachcp libs/ubuntu-book.css ../build/ubuntu/desktopguide/12:37
dholbachComplete. Find outputs at ../build/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/12:37
dholbachmake[1] : *** No rule to make target `dg-IT', needed by `dg'.  Stop.12:37
dholbachmake[1] : Leaving directory `/tmp/buildd/ubuntu-docs-5.12.4/ubuntu'12:37
dholbachmake: *** [debian/stamp-makefile-build]  Error 212:37
dholbachi'll drop dg-IT from the dg Makefile target and put up a debdiff of the changes i did online, so you can maybe feed it back to svn12:54
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jsgotangcohello03:38
Kamping_Kaiserhi03:39
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jjessemorning :)03:44
jsgotangcohey jjesse i started hacking on your doc today03:46
jjessejsgotangco: awesome03:48
jjessehack away hack away all03:48
jjessejsgotangco: lots of changes?03:59
jsgotangcosort of are you doing changes at the moment?04:00
jjessenone today04:02
jsgotangcocan you hold of till monday?04:03
jjesseafter work on friday i'll be !internet for a week04:03
jsgotangcogreat04:03
jjesseso if possible i would like to be able to sync around friday 5pm EST (i'm -5 UTC)04:04
jjesseand be able to hack away at things while i'm at my in-laws04:04
jsgotangcohmm ok i won't touch the doc then04:04
jsgotangcoi'll update the quickguide instead04:04
jjessewell if you do the release notes, i gues i can work on the desktop guide ?04:05
jsgotangcosure04:05
jsgotangcoi havent really looked at the other guides really04:05
jjesseanyone know if the desktopguide is ready to be worked on for kubuntu?04:06
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mdkedholbach, thanks i'll fix it04:22
mdkemy bad04:22
jsgotangco?04:23
mdkejsgotangco, daniel found an error in the makefile04:24
dholbachmdke: the other thing is, the "script" in debian/README should refer to debian/README.Debian, not debian/README.debian04:25
dholbach(capital D)04:25
dholbachthat's all i changed apart from adding a changelog entry04:25
jsgotangcooh is mdke packaging?04:25
mdkedholbach, ok great, stick the diff up if you like04:27
mdkejsgotangco, no...04:27
mdkedholbach, but we really need to get you svn access for this stuff :)04:27
dholbachhaha ;)04:27
=== jsgotangco hums
dholbachmdke: http://ubuntu.gplan.info/tiny.patch04:38
dholbachhmhmhmmh: http://ubuntu.gplan.info/docs/tiny.patch04:38
dholbachoops sorry, did the diff the wrong way around04:38
dholbachapply it with -R please04:38
mdkedholbach, i'll just do it manually, np04:39
dholbachpatch -p1 -R < tiny.patch       should do04:39
mdkealrighty04:39
dholbach-p0 might too04:40
jsgotangcoi see greatness at work04:42
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dholbachi'm off for getting christmas presents - see you04:45
jsgotangcodholbach, later, i'll expect it from the post then04:46
jsgotangco=)04:46
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mgalvinmdke_: did you start a newsletter wiki page yet?08:00
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jjessefor one of the docs that i have mostly finished, switching you friend to kubuntu, i need to add accessing windows partition, is this the best spot to go? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AutomaticallyMountMSWindowsPartitions09:48
mgalvinjjesse: its overly verbose but looks like it will work09:56
mgalvin(at a quick glance)09:56
jjessemgalvin: thanks, should have looked at the FAQ Guide first09:58
jjessethe one that we publish :)09:58
mgalvin:)09:58
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