/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2005/12/29/#edubuntu.txt

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lululinuxwhere does Gnome hide "start another X session"?01:37
lululinuxError: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.01:43
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lululinuxError: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.05:43
lululinuxwhere does Gnome hide "start another X session"?05:43
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ballHow do I decide between Ubuntu and Edubuntu?06:09
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zakameer, depends on your intended use?06:14
|Marc-go|Hello All .... I have a few question about edubuntu...06:15
|Marc-go|I have just started looking at Edubuntu and can only find and install CD.... Is there a Live CD?06:17
zakamenot yet for breezy, but iirc there's a test live cd for dapper06:17
ballzakame: put on student workstations and possibly on my own laptop.06:18
ballhello |Marc-go|06:18
zakamethough I suspect one can do with the breezy edubuntu installer's casper-udeb d-i component, but I haven't tried that06:18
|Marc-go|Hello. Ball06:19
ballIs edubuntu always used ltsp-style?06:24
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ballhello tdscott206:26
tdscott2hello06:26
zakamehi tdscott2 06:27
tdscott2Hello to you also... so, are we talking edubuntu?06:28
ballYes, I'm thinking about considering the idea of evaluating it.06:28
tdscott2I'm using it right now. Just installed it about an hour ago and I'm not sure I like it.  It was really cool at first, but the more I play with it the less I like it.06:29
zakametdscott2: hm, what do you don't like about it? :)06:30
balltdscott2: that's not a good sign then.06:30
tdscott2Well first of all it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to do anything with root permissions06:31
balltdscott2: does it come with /bin/sh ?06:31
tdscott2I installed Flash since my kids like to go ti disney.com and found out that sound doesn't seem to work06:32
tdscott2yeah it does06:32
tdscott2my system sound works fine but not with flash06:32
tdscott2I also installed webmin thinking I could do some tweaking in there.  That worked until I rebooted and now it no longer seems to be installed06:33
ballIs edubuntu something I buy a CD for, or just download and burn?06:34
balltdscott2: when you reboot, the world ends.06:34
tdscott2I just downloaded it and burned it.  I was only one cd06:34
ballDoes it come with joe?06:35
tdscott2what the heck is that?06:35
zakamejoe, the editor?06:35
tdscott2dunno06:36
ballyes06:36
tdscott2I'm a vi guy myself06:36
balljoe's own editor06:36
ballI use vi just long enough to get joe compiled...it's a CP/M thing ;-)06:36
tdscott2I hear ya06:37
tdscott2The whole interface is really clean, and it's friggen fast on this PII 450 06:37
ballThat's about the vintage of most of my machines06:37
tdscott2I just don't think that I should have to spend 8 hours making it work.  call me lazy06:38
ball(at home, not at the school)06:38
ballSo, what's needed to build a "terminal" that will work with edubuntu?06:38
tdscott2I'm not sure what you mean there.  I just used the already installed Gnome terminal.  su doen't work because it's been disabled.  That's what took me so long to figure out.  I ended up using sudo to be able to do anything.06:40
balltdscott2: right, but you were using it on the same machine it's installed on.  Apparently it has some facility to work with X terminals (or something)06:41
tdscott2Oh I see what you mean.  Yeah I read something about that too.  Maybe I'll head into the other room and try to figure that out06:42
zakametdscott2: sudo is the way to go, not su06:43
ballheh06:43
=== ball would be more comfortable with su
ball(I root, therefore I am)06:43
tdscott2Yeah I'd never used sudo before but it seemed to work just fine06:43
tdscott2another weird thing was the whole user creation at the end of the install.  It had me create only one user that I found out later has some root permissions.  very strange06:44
zakamewell one can always `sudo bash' and do root stuff06:44
ballsudo /bin/sh hopefully06:45
tdscott2Weird, now the sound is working for flash and I didn't change anything...06:46
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ballhello arkan0x06:47
arkan0xhi ball  !06:47
tdscott2sup arkan0x?06:47
=== ball stumbles across the FAQ
arkan0xproving script translator of google06:49
arkan0xby google services06:49
arkan0xxD06:49
ballpossibly the most deficient FAQ I've ever read, that ;-)06:51
tdscott2AMEN06:52
ballIs there a user's mailing list for edubuntu?06:53
tdscott2Well I've decided that I'm going back to Mandriva at least for now for the kids.  I'll try again in April at the next release.  Later06:53
ballbye tdscott206:54
ballI'm thinking of using NetBSD instead.06:54
ball...it's nice and configurable.06:54
ball(and I grok it)06:54
ballEdubuntu has a nice GEM-like file browser from the looks of things though06:58
ball...perhaps that's part of GNOME06:58
zakameah, nautilus06:59
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ballWhere did I read about edubuntu's terminal server feature?07:00
ball(and where can I learn what's required of the terminals?)07:00
zakameltsp?07:01
=== ball nods
ballAnything special for the terminals if they're to be used with edubuntu?07:01
ballzakame: ooh look, k12ltsp.org07:21
zakameball: yup :)07:30
ballhttp://loptech.blogspot.com/  <- my take on edubuntu08:06
ballgoodnight all08:10
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thoandhello12:28
thoandmy teacher is interessted in giving edubuntu to his students, but the edubuntu setup does not use DHCP, is there a version, wich does?12:29
Yagisanthoand: edubuntu should use dhcp12:29
Yagisanthoand: Are you using the live cd ?12:30
thoandno, I tried the install CD in my vmware12:30
thoandand then it asks for IP12:30
thoandGateway12:30
thoandDNS and so on12:30
thoandthe first thing I thought ws teachers... but some minutes ago I tested it myself12:32
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Yagisanthoand: when you put that cd in, type workstation for the type of install12:33
Yagisanthoand: the default install for that is as a server12:34
Yagisanthoand: where IT will be a dhcp server12:34
thoandok, I'll try12:34
Yagisanno worries, and merry christmas :)12:34
Yagisanonly 1 hour and 30 minutes to go12:34
thoandwhat is then?12:35
Yagisanthoand: christmas here12:36
Yagisanthoand: my kids are already looking for their presents12:37
thoandah I see, you mean in 1 hour and 30 minutes is distribution of (Christmas) presents?12:38
thoandlooked up this in my dict, sounds stupid ;)12:39
Yagisanthoand: It is nearly midnight here. It doesn't sound stupid, my wife is not a native english speaker either.12:40
thoandmidnight to the 25th?12:41
thoandin germany everybody sais "it is Chrismas today", but it is the 24th here12:42
thoandChristmas Eve12:43
Yagisanthoand: It is Sat Dec 24 10:44:04pm here I am. It's already christmas in new zealand12:45
thoandYagisan: in the wrong german understanding yes, but it is good t hear that there are some who know the difference12:47
thoandregarding to the workstation installation, wouldn't it be better to make this the default, because someone who wants to install it on a server should be more well-versed12:52
thoandand the hint for entering "server" stands at the boot prompt12:52
thoandI have to go for lunch now, brb12:53
Yagisanthoand: ogra is the person to talk about that, but IIRC the reasoning server is defaults, is that the initial version is targeted at schools12:59
Yagisanthoand: and is supposed to be easy for a non-technical person to deploy a whole classroom in a short period of time01:00
thoandmaybe it is a good soluution to provide two versions01:12
Yagisanthoand: there *are* two versions on the cd, the default server install, and a standalone workstation install. Perhaps a nice menu would be helpful01:19
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thoandI understood that, but when someone have to enter text this is a barrier01:21
thoanda menu might be the best solution01:21
thoandbut actually the workstation option is even not named at the prompt (AFAIK)01:22
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Yagisanthoand: Did you check out http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?01:24
lucasvoYagisan: query01:25
zakamehi all, merry christmas!01:25
ogra_ibookhey, merry christmas !01:26
lucasvomerry christmas :D01:26
zakamehi ogra_ibook ! :D01:27
YagisanMerry Christmas all01:27
ogra_ibook:)01:27
zakameI've good news: by next year another school here in Daet will be using Edubuntu :)01:27
ogra_ibookyay01:28
ogra_ibookthats a nice chriatmas present01:28
ogra_ibookoops01:28
ogra_ibook*christmas01:28
zakameyeah, iirc 70 PCs + one ltsp server01:28
ogra_ibookphew01:28
ogra_ibookthat needs to be a fat server :)01:28
thoandYagisan: no, I did not01:29
ogra_ibookthoand, the next CD has a graphical menu to select the install variant, no need for 2 versions ;)01:29
zakamehehe01:29
thoandogra_ibook: that is great :)01:30
ogra_ibookits far more obvious01:30
thoandI think 6.04 will be THA_01:32
thoandhmpf01:32
thoandI think 6.04 will be _THE_ distribution :)01:32
thoandI think the kubuntu version will be the best01:33
thoandwill there come a gnome free edubuntu version?01:34
Yagisanogra_ibook: nah, any off the shelf dual core amd64 will be fine as a server01:34
ogra_ibooknope, but there is no problem to make edubuntu use kde or xfce 01:34
ogra_ibookYagisan, for 70 clients ? that needs a huge amount of mem ;)01:35
Yagisanogra_ibook: amd64, some of these boards take shitloads of ram01:36
ogra_ibooktrue :)01:36
=== Yagisan wants for christmas
=== Yagisan actually gets the bill for christmas lunch instead
zakameheh, I'll let the school tackle that ;)  I'll just recommend maybe this amount of RAM :))01:36
YagisanMy dream box, would be a nice dual, dual core amd64 box, 4GB+ RAM, 1TB+ storage in RAID501:38
Yagisan1 core for all work stuff, the other 3 for all my "other" activities :)01:39
ogra_ibookdid you ask santa for it ? ;)01:39
Yagisanogra_ibook: other here, I am santa - and santa can't afford it :(01:40
Yagisans/other/over01:40
ogra_ibookah, damned ...01:40
Yagisanat least the kids will be happy tommorow01:40
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Yagisanbrb - father's duties01:45
Yagisanwoo hoo - It's christmas02:07
zakameindeed02:08
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Yagisanfinally, the kids are in bed. Goodnight All, Merry Christmas02:17
zakameMerry Christmas Yagisan :)02:18
lululinuxwhere does Gnome hide "start another X session"?02:26
lululinuxError: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.02:26
ogra_ibookthere is a "new login" item in the menu02:26
ogra_ibookwhich password did you give for update-manager ?02:27
lululinuxI looked for anything like "new login", can't see anything.02:27
ogra_ibookits there ... 02:27
lululinuxapplications, places, or system?02:28
ogra_ibooksomewhere below applications ...02:28
ogra_ibookin "system tools" there iirc ...02:28
ogra_ibookusing dapper here, the menu is broken, so i cant look up the correct place02:29
lululinuxyes, in system tools, thanks02:29
=== lululinux thinks it belongs in main 'system' menu
lululinuxI used the root password02:30
ogra_ibookthe menu will change a lot in dapper ...02:30
ogra_ibookdunno wher it will be put02:30
ogra_ibookthats wrong02:30
lululinuxit's the only password that exists on this system02:30
lululinuxuser passwords are null02:30
ogra_ibookuse your user password02:31
ogra_ibookthe root password is nowhere used in edubuntu02:31
ogra_ibookthat wont work02:31
lululinuxroot has the only password that exists on this system02:31
ogra_ibookyour sudo user (the one you set up on install) is the only administrative user in every gui in ubuntu ... setting a root password just adds insecurity02:31
lululinuxthat user now has a null password, like all other users except root02:33
ogra_ibookthats wrong02:33
ogra_ibookset one02:34
lululinuxthat's how it is02:34
ogra_ibookhow did you achieve that ? 02:34
ogra_ibookthe installer will complain if you dont set a password for the admin on install02:34
lululinuxnormal command line useradd/passwd tools02:34
ogra_ibookand how did you install ?02:35
zakamehm kinda like oem?02:35
zakamebleah wrogn chan02:35
ogra_ibookedubuntu is built around sudo... root is only helpful on the commandline02:36
lululinuxkubuntu install, then apt-get install edubuntu-desktop02:36
zakameone can always do `sudo bash` or `sudo /bin/sh`02:36
zakamethen again, what's the point of sudo if all you want is a rootshell :/02:37
ogra_ibookkubuntu follows this philosophy as well02:37
ogra_ibookall gui tools require sudo ...02:37
ogra_ibookif you want to change itt, feel free to find all of them and change it to su, but its a hell lot of work and somewhat a slap into the face of security ...02:38
lululinuxwell, the kid doesn't need update notification on the main menubar anyway, so I'll just try to delete that if I can figure out how; then I'll login root and do adept02:38
ogra_ibookthere is a reason we choose sudo ;)02:39
lululinuxI don't care02:39
lululinuxthis is not my only linux box02:39
lululinuxthey all need to require the same basics02:39
lululinuxGnome is more than enough deviation as it is02:39
lululinuxall my others are KDE only02:40
ogra_ibookas i said, feel free to change it... but it will change back on every upgrade (no matter if gnome or kde)02:40
zakameer, rather strong...02:40
ogra_ibookthe tools are all called with the respective sudo tool...so on upgrades the .desktop files will revertt to it ...02:41
lululinuxwhy do my additions to KDE menus not get picked up in Gnome? I had to make manual additions in each.02:42
ogra_ibookin dapper the admin tools will be hidden for non sudo users ... update-notifier as well ...02:42
lululinuxSeaMonkey and Firefox 1.502:42
lululinuxthat's good02:42
ogra_ibookif you didnt use the ubuntu packages, then complain at the people who broke seamonkey and firefox ;)02:43
lululinuxwill there be any ubuntu version that runs on an ix86 Mac?02:43
lululinuxI didn't see any SeaMonkey 1.0b or Firefox 1.5 packages in adept02:43
ogra_ibookubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu follow all the freedesktop.org standard, if the tools you use dont work, the upstream didnt follow them02:44
ogra_ibookif there is a x86 mac to develop on, we will do that ;)02:44
lululinuxwhatever the normal KDE menu editor is i used02:44
lululinuxwhatever the normal KDE menu editor is what I used02:45
lululinuxwhatever the normal KDE menu editor is is what I used02:45
ogra_ibookto add them ? 02:45
lululinuxyes02:45
ogra_ibookthats fine 02:45
ogra_ibookbut if you read the freedesktop.org spec you'll see that they are storing their data in different places to not mix up the menus ;)02:46
lululinuxmebbe in 3.5 that will be changed?02:46
ogra_ibookwith the new gnome editor in dapper you can override that afaik02:46
ogra_ibookkde isnt that far yet with freedesktop.org standards ...02:47
ogra_ibookthere is still a lot stuff to be fixed ...02:47
ogra_ibooki guess that will come in 4.002:47
lululinuxI don't see a way to delete the update notifier from the main menubar02:48
lululinuxthe kid doesn't need it there02:48
ogra_ibookyou need to delete it from the session and save the session ...02:49
lululinuxhow?02:49
ogra_ibookdelete it with the session manager from the desktop settings menu, then save the session on logout02:50
lululinuxright click on panel has no "delete from panel" option02:50
ogra_ibookits in the notification area ... you cant just delete it from there ... the app itself runs in the session...02:50
ogra_ibook#(not different to kde btw)02:51
lululinuxfound it02:51
ogra_ibookgreat :)02:51
lululinux:)02:52
lululinuxthe trash can looks much too much like the active state indicator for the desktop chooser02:53
ogra_ibookyes, the icon isnt the best one ... 02:53
ogra_ibooktango will change that 02:54
lululinuxI have other things to do for a while. Thanks ogra_ibook 02:54
ogra_ibookhave fun and merry christmas (in case you celebrate it)02:54
MrMazdaogra_ibook: Merry Christmas to you too! ( lululinux is my kid's puter upstairs )03:01
ogra_ibookthanks :)03:01
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lululinuxogra_ibook: selecting new login doesn't do anything except make a noise03:42
ogra_ibookhmm, is gdm running ? 03:42
lululinuxno03:42
ogra_ibookrun it then ;)03:43
lululinuxI don't like it03:43
lululinuxkdm is running03:43
ogra_ibookso you cant have the gdmflexiserver support ....03:43
ogra_ibookas in kde, the loginmanager is responsible for logins ...03:44
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mhzMrMazda: hi there, MX!04:14
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