[01:37] <lululinux> where does Gnome hide "start another X session"?
[01:43] <lululinux> Error: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.
[05:43] <lululinux> Error: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.
[05:43] <lululinux> where does Gnome hide "start another X session"?
[06:09] <ball> How do I decide between Ubuntu and Edubuntu?
[06:14] <zakame> er, depends on your intended use?
[06:15] <|Marc-go|> Hello All .... I have a few question about edubuntu...
[06:17] <|Marc-go|> I have just started looking at Edubuntu and can only find and install CD.... Is there a Live CD?
[06:17] <zakame> not yet for breezy, but iirc there's a test live cd for dapper
[06:18] <ball> zakame: put on student workstations and possibly on my own laptop.
[06:18] <ball> hello |Marc-go|
[06:18] <zakame> though I suspect one can do with the breezy edubuntu installer's casper-udeb d-i component, but I haven't tried that
[06:19] <|Marc-go|> Hello. Ball
[06:24] <ball> Is edubuntu always used ltsp-style?
[06:26] <ball> hello tdscott2
[06:26] <tdscott2> hello
[06:27] <zakame> hi tdscott2 
[06:28] <tdscott2> Hello to you also... so, are we talking edubuntu?
[06:28] <ball> Yes, I'm thinking about considering the idea of evaluating it.
[06:29] <tdscott2> I'm using it right now. Just installed it about an hour ago and I'm not sure I like it.  It was really cool at first, but the more I play with it the less I like it.
[06:30] <zakame> tdscott2: hm, what do you don't like about it? :)
[06:30] <ball> tdscott2: that's not a good sign then.
[06:31] <tdscott2> Well first of all it took me 20 minutes to figure out how to do anything with root permissions
[06:31] <ball> tdscott2: does it come with /bin/sh ?
[06:32] <tdscott2> I installed Flash since my kids like to go ti disney.com and found out that sound doesn't seem to work
[06:32] <tdscott2> yeah it does
[06:32] <tdscott2> my system sound works fine but not with flash
[06:33] <tdscott2> I also installed webmin thinking I could do some tweaking in there.  That worked until I rebooted and now it no longer seems to be installed
[06:34] <ball> Is edubuntu something I buy a CD for, or just download and burn?
[06:34] <ball> tdscott2: when you reboot, the world ends.
[06:34] <tdscott2> I just downloaded it and burned it.  I was only one cd
[06:35] <ball> Does it come with joe?
[06:35] <tdscott2> what the heck is that?
[06:35] <zakame> joe, the editor?
[06:36] <tdscott2> dunno
[06:36] <ball> yes
[06:36] <tdscott2> I'm a vi guy myself
[06:36] <ball> joe's own editor
[06:36] <ball> I use vi just long enough to get joe compiled...it's a CP/M thing ;-)
[06:37] <tdscott2> I hear ya
[06:37] <tdscott2> The whole interface is really clean, and it's friggen fast on this PII 450 
[06:37] <ball> That's about the vintage of most of my machines
[06:38] <tdscott2> I just don't think that I should have to spend 8 hours making it work.  call me lazy
[06:38] <ball> (at home, not at the school)
[06:38] <ball> So, what's needed to build a "terminal" that will work with edubuntu?
[06:40] <tdscott2> I'm not sure what you mean there.  I just used the already installed Gnome terminal.  su doen't work because it's been disabled.  That's what took me so long to figure out.  I ended up using sudo to be able to do anything.
[06:41] <ball> tdscott2: right, but you were using it on the same machine it's installed on.  Apparently it has some facility to work with X terminals (or something)
[06:42] <tdscott2> Oh I see what you mean.  Yeah I read something about that too.  Maybe I'll head into the other room and try to figure that out
[06:43] <zakame> tdscott2: sudo is the way to go, not su
[06:43] <ball> heh
[06:43] <ball> (I root, therefore I am)
[06:43] <tdscott2> Yeah I'd never used sudo before but it seemed to work just fine
[06:44] <tdscott2> another weird thing was the whole user creation at the end of the install.  It had me create only one user that I found out later has some root permissions.  very strange
[06:44] <zakame> well one can always `sudo bash' and do root stuff
[06:45] <ball> sudo /bin/sh hopefully
[06:46] <tdscott2> Weird, now the sound is working for flash and I didn't change anything...
[06:47] <ball> hello arkan0x
[06:47] <arkan0x> hi ball  !
[06:47] <tdscott2> sup arkan0x?
[06:49] <arkan0x> proving script translator of google
[06:49] <arkan0x> by google services
[06:49] <arkan0x> xD
[06:51] <ball> possibly the most deficient FAQ I've ever read, that ;-)
[06:52] <tdscott2> AMEN
[06:53] <ball> Is there a user's mailing list for edubuntu?
[06:53] <tdscott2> Well I've decided that I'm going back to Mandriva at least for now for the kids.  I'll try again in April at the next release.  Later
[06:54] <ball> bye tdscott2
[06:54] <ball> I'm thinking of using NetBSD instead.
[06:54] <ball> ...it's nice and configurable.
[06:54] <ball> (and I grok it)
[06:58] <ball> Edubuntu has a nice GEM-like file browser from the looks of things though
[06:58] <ball> ...perhaps that's part of GNOME
[06:59] <zakame> ah, nautilus
[07:00] <ball> Where did I read about edubuntu's terminal server feature?
[07:00] <ball> (and where can I learn what's required of the terminals?)
[07:01] <zakame> ltsp?
[07:01] <ball> Anything special for the terminals if they're to be used with edubuntu?
[07:21] <ball> zakame: ooh look, k12ltsp.org
[07:30] <zakame> ball: yup :)
[08:06] <ball> http://loptech.blogspot.com/  <- my take on edubuntu
[08:10] <ball> goodnight all
[12:28] <thoand> hello
[12:29] <thoand> my teacher is interessted in giving edubuntu to his students, but the edubuntu setup does not use DHCP, is there a version, wich does?
[12:29] <Yagisan> thoand: edubuntu should use dhcp
[12:30] <Yagisan> thoand: Are you using the live cd ?
[12:30] <thoand> no, I tried the install CD in my vmware
[12:30] <thoand> and then it asks for IP
[12:30] <thoand> Gateway
[12:30] <thoand> DNS and so on
[12:32] <thoand> the first thing I thought ws teachers... but some minutes ago I tested it myself
[12:33] <Yagisan> thoand: when you put that cd in, type workstation for the type of install
[12:34] <Yagisan> thoand: the default install for that is as a server
[12:34] <Yagisan> thoand: where IT will be a dhcp server
[12:34] <thoand> ok, I'll try
[12:34] <Yagisan> no worries, and merry christmas :)
[12:34] <Yagisan> only 1 hour and 30 minutes to go
[12:35] <thoand> what is then?
[12:36] <Yagisan> thoand: christmas here
[12:37] <Yagisan> thoand: my kids are already looking for their presents
[12:38] <thoand> ah I see, you mean in 1 hour and 30 minutes is distribution of (Christmas) presents?
[12:39] <thoand> looked up this in my dict, sounds stupid ;)
[12:40] <Yagisan> thoand: It is nearly midnight here. It doesn't sound stupid, my wife is not a native english speaker either.
[12:41] <thoand> midnight to the 25th?
[12:42] <thoand> in germany everybody sais "it is Chrismas today", but it is the 24th here
[12:43] <thoand> Christmas Eve
[12:45] <Yagisan> thoand: It is Sat Dec 24 10:44:04pm here I am. It's already christmas in new zealand
[12:47] <thoand> Yagisan: in the wrong german understanding yes, but it is good t hear that there are some who know the difference
[12:52] <thoand> regarding to the workstation installation, wouldn't it be better to make this the default, because someone who wants to install it on a server should be more well-versed
[12:52] <thoand> and the hint for entering "server" stands at the boot prompt
[12:53] <thoand> I have to go for lunch now, brb
[12:59] <Yagisan> thoand: ogra is the person to talk about that, but IIRC the reasoning server is defaults, is that the initial version is targeted at schools
[01:00] <Yagisan> thoand: and is supposed to be easy for a non-technical person to deploy a whole classroom in a short period of time
[01:12] <thoand> maybe it is a good soluution to provide two versions
[01:19] <Yagisan> thoand: there *are* two versions on the cd, the default server install, and a standalone workstation install. Perhaps a nice menu would be helpful
[01:21] <thoand> I understood that, but when someone have to enter text this is a barrier
[01:21] <thoand> a menu might be the best solution
[01:22] <thoand> but actually the workstation option is even not named at the prompt (AFAIK)
[01:24] <Yagisan> thoand: Did you check out http://wiki.edubuntu.org/EdubuntuInstallNotes ?
[01:25] <lucasvo> Yagisan: query
[01:25] <zakame> hi all, merry christmas!
[01:26] <ogra_ibook> hey, merry christmas !
[01:26] <lucasvo> merry christmas :D
[01:27] <zakame> hi ogra_ibook ! :D
[01:27] <Yagisan> Merry Christmas all
[01:27] <ogra_ibook> :)
[01:27] <zakame> I've good news: by next year another school here in Daet will be using Edubuntu :)
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> yay
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> thats a nice chriatmas present
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> oops
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> *christmas
[01:28] <zakame> yeah, iirc 70 PCs + one ltsp server
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> phew
[01:28] <ogra_ibook> that needs to be a fat server :)
[01:29] <thoand> Yagisan: no, I did not
[01:29] <ogra_ibook> thoand, the next CD has a graphical menu to select the install variant, no need for 2 versions ;)
[01:29] <zakame> hehe
[01:30] <thoand> ogra_ibook: that is great :)
[01:30] <ogra_ibook> its far more obvious
[01:32] <thoand> I think 6.04 will be THA_
[01:32] <thoand> hmpf
[01:32] <thoand> I think 6.04 will be _THE_ distribution :)
[01:33] <thoand> I think the kubuntu version will be the best
[01:34] <thoand> will there come a gnome free edubuntu version?
[01:34] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: nah, any off the shelf dual core amd64 will be fine as a server
[01:34] <ogra_ibook> nope, but there is no problem to make edubuntu use kde or xfce 
[01:35] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, for 70 clients ? that needs a huge amount of mem ;)
[01:36] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: amd64, some of these boards take shitloads of ram
[01:36] <ogra_ibook> true :)
[01:36] <zakame> heh, I'll let the school tackle that ;)  I'll just recommend maybe this amount of RAM :))
[01:38] <Yagisan> My dream box, would be a nice dual, dual core amd64 box, 4GB+ RAM, 1TB+ storage in RAID5
[01:39] <Yagisan> 1 core for all work stuff, the other 3 for all my "other" activities :)
[01:39] <ogra_ibook> did you ask santa for it ? ;)
[01:40] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: other here, I am santa - and santa can't afford it :(
[01:40] <Yagisan> s/other/over
[01:40] <ogra_ibook> ah, damned ...
[01:40] <Yagisan> at least the kids will be happy tommorow
[01:45] <Yagisan> brb - father's duties
[02:07] <Yagisan> woo hoo - It's christmas
[02:08] <zakame> indeed
[02:17] <Yagisan> finally, the kids are in bed. Goodnight All, Merry Christmas
[02:18] <zakame> Merry Christmas Yagisan :)
[02:26] <lululinux> where does Gnome hide "start another X session"?
[02:26] <lululinux> Error: Failed to run /usr/bin/update-manager as user root: Wrong password.
[02:26] <ogra_ibook> there is a "new login" item in the menu
[02:27] <ogra_ibook> which password did you give for update-manager ?
[02:27] <lululinux> I looked for anything like "new login", can't see anything.
[02:27] <ogra_ibook> its there ... 
[02:28] <lululinux> applications, places, or system?
[02:28] <ogra_ibook> somewhere below applications ...
[02:28] <ogra_ibook> in "system tools" there iirc ...
[02:29] <ogra_ibook> using dapper here, the menu is broken, so i cant look up the correct place
[02:29] <lululinux> yes, in system tools, thanks
[02:30] <lululinux> I used the root password
[02:30] <ogra_ibook> the menu will change a lot in dapper ...
[02:30] <ogra_ibook> dunno wher it will be put
[02:30] <ogra_ibook> thats wrong
[02:30] <lululinux> it's the only password that exists on this system
[02:30] <lululinux> user passwords are null
[02:31] <ogra_ibook> use your user password
[02:31] <ogra_ibook> the root password is nowhere used in edubuntu
[02:31] <ogra_ibook> that wont work
[02:31] <lululinux> root has the only password that exists on this system
[02:31] <ogra_ibook> your sudo user (the one you set up on install) is the only administrative user in every gui in ubuntu ... setting a root password just adds insecurity
[02:33] <lululinux> that user now has a null password, like all other users except root
[02:33] <ogra_ibook> thats wrong
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> set one
[02:34] <lululinux> that's how it is
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> how did you achieve that ? 
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> the installer will complain if you dont set a password for the admin on install
[02:34] <lululinux> normal command line useradd/passwd tools
[02:35] <ogra_ibook> and how did you install ?
[02:35] <zakame> hm kinda like oem?
[02:35] <zakame> bleah wrogn chan
[02:36] <ogra_ibook> edubuntu is built around sudo... root is only helpful on the commandline
[02:36] <lululinux> kubuntu install, then apt-get install edubuntu-desktop
[02:36] <zakame> one can always do `sudo bash` or `sudo /bin/sh`
[02:37] <zakame> then again, what's the point of sudo if all you want is a rootshell :/
[02:37] <ogra_ibook> kubuntu follows this philosophy as well
[02:37] <ogra_ibook> all gui tools require sudo ...
[02:38] <ogra_ibook> if you want to change itt, feel free to find all of them and change it to su, but its a hell lot of work and somewhat a slap into the face of security ...
[02:38] <lululinux> well, the kid doesn't need update notification on the main menubar anyway, so I'll just try to delete that if I can figure out how; then I'll login root and do adept
[02:39] <ogra_ibook> there is a reason we choose sudo ;)
[02:39] <lululinux> I don't care
[02:39] <lululinux> this is not my only linux box
[02:39] <lululinux> they all need to require the same basics
[02:39] <lululinux> Gnome is more than enough deviation as it is
[02:40] <lululinux> all my others are KDE only
[02:40] <ogra_ibook> as i said, feel free to change it... but it will change back on every upgrade (no matter if gnome or kde)
[02:40] <zakame> er, rather strong...
[02:41] <ogra_ibook> the tools are all called with the respective sudo tool...so on upgrades the .desktop files will revertt to it ...
[02:42] <lululinux> why do my additions to KDE menus not get picked up in Gnome? I had to make manual additions in each.
[02:42] <ogra_ibook> in dapper the admin tools will be hidden for non sudo users ... update-notifier as well ...
[02:42] <lululinux> SeaMonkey and Firefox 1.5
[02:42] <lululinux> that's good
[02:43] <ogra_ibook> if you didnt use the ubuntu packages, then complain at the people who broke seamonkey and firefox ;)
[02:43] <lululinux> will there be any ubuntu version that runs on an ix86 Mac?
[02:43] <lululinux> I didn't see any SeaMonkey 1.0b or Firefox 1.5 packages in adept
[02:44] <ogra_ibook> ubuntu/edubuntu and kubuntu follow all the freedesktop.org standard, if the tools you use dont work, the upstream didnt follow them
[02:44] <ogra_ibook> if there is a x86 mac to develop on, we will do that ;)
[02:44] <lululinux> whatever the normal KDE menu editor is i used
[02:45] <lululinux> whatever the normal KDE menu editor is what I used
[02:45] <lululinux> whatever the normal KDE menu editor is is what I used
[02:45] <ogra_ibook> to add them ? 
[02:45] <lululinux> yes
[02:45] <ogra_ibook> thats fine 
[02:46] <ogra_ibook> but if you read the freedesktop.org spec you'll see that they are storing their data in different places to not mix up the menus ;)
[02:46] <lululinux> mebbe in 3.5 that will be changed?
[02:46] <ogra_ibook> with the new gnome editor in dapper you can override that afaik
[02:47] <ogra_ibook> kde isnt that far yet with freedesktop.org standards ...
[02:47] <ogra_ibook> there is still a lot stuff to be fixed ...
[02:47] <ogra_ibook> i guess that will come in 4.0
[02:48] <lululinux> I don't see a way to delete the update notifier from the main menubar
[02:48] <lululinux> the kid doesn't need it there
[02:49] <ogra_ibook> you need to delete it from the session and save the session ...
[02:49] <lululinux> how?
[02:50] <ogra_ibook> delete it with the session manager from the desktop settings menu, then save the session on logout
[02:50] <lululinux> right click on panel has no "delete from panel" option
[02:50] <ogra_ibook> its in the notification area ... you cant just delete it from there ... the app itself runs in the session...
[02:51] <ogra_ibook> #(not different to kde btw)
[02:51] <lululinux> found it
[02:51] <ogra_ibook> great :)
[02:52] <lululinux> :)
[02:53] <lululinux> the trash can looks much too much like the active state indicator for the desktop chooser
[02:53] <ogra_ibook> yes, the icon isnt the best one ... 
[02:54] <ogra_ibook> tango will change that 
[02:54] <lululinux> I have other things to do for a while. Thanks ogra_ibook 
[02:54] <ogra_ibook> have fun and merry christmas (in case you celebrate it)
[03:01] <MrMazda> ogra_ibook: Merry Christmas to you too! ( lululinux is my kid's puter upstairs )
[03:01] <ogra_ibook> thanks :)
[03:42] <lululinux> ogra_ibook: selecting new login doesn't do anything except make a noise
[03:42] <ogra_ibook> hmm, is gdm running ? 
[03:42] <lululinux> no
[03:43] <ogra_ibook> run it then ;)
[03:43] <lululinux> I don't like it
[03:43] <lululinux> kdm is running
[03:43] <ogra_ibook> so you cant have the gdmflexiserver support ....
[03:44] <ogra_ibook> as in kde, the loginmanager is responsible for logins ...
[04:14] <mhz> MrMazda: hi there, MX!