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| hughsie | PowerManagement guys -- opinions please. | 12:50 |
|---|---|---|
| hughsie | in reference to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerManagementConfiguration | 12:50 |
| hughsie | the battery critical sliders are per-time, rather than per-percent. | 12:50 |
| hughsie | now I've got a bit of time, i've been fixing the issues ubuntu has with g-p-m to more match this mockup | 12:51 |
| hughsie | but, i need some rational about the per-time thing | 12:51 |
| ogra_ibook | hughsie, i guess nobody of the guys that have written this spec is around ... | 12:54 |
| ogra_ibook | (and i disagree with it to be honest, i think g-p-m is fine as is) | 12:54 |
| hughsie | ogra, cool, cheers! | 12:55 |
| hughsie | ogra_ibook, you mind if I scribble on your wiki? | 12:55 |
| ogra_ibook | put a comments section at the bottom and make your suggestions there | 12:55 |
| ogra_ibook | but in the end its mjg59 who will implement it and i think he'll take g-p-m as well as it is now ;) | 12:56 |
| hughsie | ogra_ibook, I figured if you really dont likethe hal actions thing, you can just wrap g-p-m around PowerManager init.d service like i did before hal had actions support | 12:57 |
| hughsie | ogra_ibook, but that's hassle :-) | 12:57 |
| ogra_ibook | gah, got a horrible lag here | 12:57 |
| hughsie | ogra_ibook, You should see the mount(), unmount(), eject() methods in HAL CVS. | 12:58 |
| ogra_ibook | mjg59 cares for this part, i think he'll just write a dbus service | 12:58 |
| ogra_ibook | at least it sounded like it ... | 12:58 |
| hughsie | they rock for fedora (as gnome can just call a dbus method) but I'm not sure how easily pmount and the ubuntu stuff will work. | 12:58 |
| hughsie | he can use PowerManager as a start, or just do a quick daemon in python or something | 12:59 |
| ogra_ibook | currently he calls the gdm functions directly, which works like a charm ... | 12:59 |
| ogra_ibook | but wont match the security requirements i guess | 12:59 |
| hughsie | yes, i guess. | 12:59 |
| ogra_ibook | i'd love to have it like it is now ... | 01:00 |
| hughsie | :-), well, wait and see | 01:00 |
| hughsie | you been following g-p-m cvs at all? | 01:00 |
| ogra_ibook | but somehow there were some people that didnt like the implementation at all and wrote this spec | 01:00 |
| ogra_ibook | only the releases ... my focus moved to ltsp ... | 01:00 |
| hughsie | I think Corey Burger has some problems with some stuff, but Jaap sent a few patches to make him happier. | 01:01 |
| hughsie | Like the Shutdown button now brings up the logout dialogue | 01:01 |
| hughsie | rather than just blindly shutting down the system | 01:01 |
| ogra_ibook | yes, Burgwork is a hard bone if it comes to usability, he's a perfectionist ;) | 01:01 |
| ogra_ibook | cool | 01:02 |
| hughsie | Yes, he's cool. | 01:02 |
| hughsie | Exams finsihed last week, and so far I've been committing patches like ther eis no tmw. | 01:02 |
| hughsie | today I've made 11 commits to gnome cvs | 01:02 |
| ogra_ibook | heh | 01:02 |
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| hughsie | how's work? | 01:03 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Hi | 01:03 |
| ogra_ibook | cool | 01:03 |
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| ogra_ibook | i just get a nightly meal ... | 01:03 |
| schlomo | Hi | 01:03 |
| schlomo | sorry to bother | 01:03 |
| hughsie | mjg59, hi, you got a min? | 01:03 |
| ogra_ibook | bbl | 01:03 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Basically, we're going to be using g-p-m as is | 01:03 |
| ogra_ibook | yay | 01:03 |
| hughsie | mjg59, with the hal methods? | 01:03 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: I've hacked dbus lightly to get the semantics right for our security model | 01:03 |
| schlomo | which version has been used to compile kernel 2.6.12.10-386 ? | 01:03 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Yup | 01:03 |
| hughsie | mjg59, *sweet* | 01:03 |
| schlomo | I have to recompile alsa driver for snd-hda-intel | 01:04 |
| hughsie | mjg59, there's lots of source tidy ups and code reduction in CVS. | 01:04 |
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| hughsie | but CVG g-p-m depends on CVS hal... | 01:04 |
| hughsie | :-) | 01:04 |
| schlomo | any idea ? | 01:04 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: I've got a pam module that creates a lockfile when a user logs in, which includes the console | 01:04 |
| hughsie | mjg59, like the rh at_console thing? | 01:05 |
| schlomo | don't tell me gcc-3.5 because it's virtual package right now :) | 01:05 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: It's the at_console thing, except we check that the user is at the foreground console | 01:05 |
| mjg59 | Rather than just at /a/ console | 01:05 |
| schlomo | please any tips ? | 01:05 |
| hughsie | mjg59, so better than at_console :-) | 01:05 |
| mjg59 | So if there are two users at the console, only the current one can trigger suspends and play with the network and so on | 01:05 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Yes :) | 01:06 |
| hughsie | mjg59, makes sense | 01:06 |
| hughsie | i ight steal the idea and bugzilla rh about it.. :-) | 01:06 |
| hughsie | mjg59, I think i've solved the "gpm won't run at the login screen" problem | 01:06 |
| schlomo | hum | 01:07 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: So the only thing I need to add now is a suid app that hal can call | 01:07 |
| schlomo | thanks anyway | 01:07 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Oh, coo | 01:07 |
| schlomo | :) | 01:07 |
| hughsie | using dbus activation, one instance of g-p-m can replace another. | 01:07 |
| hughsie | and one instance can be gnome-power-console and have no GUI. | 01:07 |
| mjg59 | schlomo: cat /proc/version | 01:07 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Ah, excellent | 01:07 |
| hughsie | mjg59, that sound likea plan? | 01:07 |
| hughsie | mjg59, one problem tho, | 01:07 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Yes | 01:08 |
| schlomo | gcc version 3.4.5 20050809 :) | 01:08 |
| schlomo | mjg59 : thanks for the tips ;-) | 01:08 |
| hughsie | mjg59, g-p-m has to use the system dbus connection, not the session connection | 01:08 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Ah | 01:08 |
| hughsie | as session gets created and destroyed all the time with login and logout | 01:08 |
| mjg59 | Yes | 01:08 |
| mjg59 | Hmm | 01:08 |
| mjg59 | We want to be able to have more than one g-p-m running, though | 01:08 |
| hughsie | no big problem, same shit, different connection that's all | 01:09 |
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| hughsie | mjg59, what for? | 01:09 |
| mjg59 | Since more than one user may have a session | 01:09 |
| mjg59 | Or are we back to a system-wide g-p-m now? | 01:09 |
| hughsie | mjg59, no -- :-) | 01:09 |
| mjg59 | With fast-user-switching, there may be two or more users with gnome sessions at once | 01:10 |
| hughsie | mjg59, when the user is no longer at_console, the instance of g-p-m attached to that console quits, and the at_console instance gets started | 01:10 |
| hughsie | but with fusa, only one should be at_console, no? | 01:10 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: With RH, multiple people can be at_console | 01:10 |
| mjg59 | With us, only one | 01:10 |
| hughsie | mjg59, yes, but that is busted and wrong in my opinion | 01:10 |
| hughsie | the rh case that is | 01:10 |
| mjg59 | But users can switch just by hitting ctrl+alt+F? | 01:11 |
| mjg59 | How do you catch that? | 01:11 |
| schlomo | configure: error: You have built-in ALSA in your kernel. ? | 01:11 |
| schlomo | I have to get source ? | 01:11 |
| schlomo | why I can compile a module ? | 01:12 |
| mjg59 | schlomo: What are you trying to do? | 01:12 |
| schlomo | on Hoary kernel I can | 01:12 |
| mjg59 | schlomo: You should probably be asking this on #ubuntu | 01:12 |
| hughsie | mjg59, not sure of the details at the moment, i'm waiting for somebody to fix https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4637 | 01:12 |
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| schlomo | sorry | 01:12 |
| hughsie | so I can test it myself and get all the corner cases out | 01:12 |
| schlomo | Ihave to recompile alsa module for snd-hda-intel | 01:12 |
| hughsie | but at the moment session/system dbus is one #define change ;-) | 01:12 |
| schlomo | on 2.6.12.10-i386 | 01:13 |
| crimsun | schlomo: ask in #ubuntu, I'll help you. This is the wrong channel. | 01:13 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Ok, cool | 01:13 |
| schlomo | ok sorry | 01:13 |
| hughsie | mjg59, whats the release date for dapper? | 01:14 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: April | 01:14 |
| hughsie | no problem. new hal is expected in jan, so my big release is going to be a bit after that | 01:15 |
| hughsie | Assuming fd#4637 gets fixed in time.... | 01:15 |
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| hughsie | mjg59, one last question (then i sleep) for the critical low sliders, currenly per-percent, in the discussion with Corey, he wanted then per-time (i.e. 5 minutes remaining, rather than 5% remaining) -- what's your take on this? | 01:18 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: I think per-time is sensible | 01:18 |
| mjg59 | But I think I've said that before :) | 01:18 |
| hughsie | mjg59, i'm thinking so at the moment, but some batteries give wildly inaccurate times at low charges... is that not a worry? | 01:19 |
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| mjg59 | hughsie: Hmm. How is the time less accurate than the percentage? | 01:19 |
| hughsie | mjg59, if the resolution is say 2 minutes, and the battery dischange is non-linear (old/knackered batteries) then the time goes completely non-linear less than about 10 minutes | 01:20 |
| hughsie | my new laptop battery is okay, but my old battery is accurate for the first 30 minutes, then exponentially crashes! | 01:21 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Oh - so when we say "10 minutes" that might be entirely inaccurate? Hrm. | 01:21 |
| hughsie | yes | 01:21 |
| mjg59 | I wonder if hal ought to learn | 01:21 |
| hughsie | i normally hibernate at 1% (critical low) | 01:21 |
| mjg59 | Since spec-compliant batteries provide a model number and serial number | 01:21 |
| hughsie | but one minute is not accurate enough at all. | 01:21 |
| hughsie | mjg59, my batteries only differ by age. | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: The serial number is identical? | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | Tch. | 01:22 |
| hughsie | you can do some fancystuff in hal for non-linear discharges, but then you need a backing store for the data | 01:22 |
| hughsie | not serial no, but model etc | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | Ok. Percentage based, but set the default based on the battery information? | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Right, that was what I meant | 01:22 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: hal could record the curve for individual batteries | 01:23 |
| mjg59 | That's quite advanced, though :) | 01:23 |
| hughsie | mjg59, yes, but that requires a backing store for about 16k of data. I've thought about this one before | 01:23 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Yeah. We have no mechanism for that now? | 01:23 |
| hughsie | the percentage change should be set on the capacity, you're right. | 01:24 |
| hughsie | i'll do that. | 01:24 |
| hughsie | at the moment, g-p-p gives a "esimated time value" in small italics under the percentage slider. | 01:24 |
| mjg59 | Ok, that sounds good | 01:24 |
| hughsie | you can see it in the glade file, but it only works (obvioulsy) when discharging. | 01:24 |
| mjg59 | As long as it doesn't default to warning me at a ridiculous time when I've got a big battery :) | 01:25 |
| hughsie | yes, i'll fix that. defaults to 5% at the moment | 01:25 |
| hughsie | mjg59, okay, thanks for the input. I sleep now. Happy Christmas all you Ubuntu'ers! | 01:27 |
| mjg59 | hughsie: Happy christmas! | 01:27 |
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| schlomo | Hi | 02:36 |
| schlomo | I have take some quotes from an article | 02:36 |
| raphink | yop schlomo | 02:36 |
| raphink | faut dormir il est tard ;) | 02:36 |
| schlomo | about friendly documentation | 02:37 |
| schlomo | and support options | 02:37 |
| schlomo | yep | 02:37 |
| schlomo | I think it very interesting | 02:37 |
| schlomo | http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/6100 | 02:37 |
| schlomo | just 3 rows | 02:37 |
| schlomo | can you read please | 02:37 |
| schlomo | does launchpad.net has been done for that purpose ? | 02:38 |
| raphink | where is that from ? | 02:38 |
| raphink | schlomo: demande sur #launchpad si tu veux parler de launchpad c'est mieux, c'est fait pour :) | 02:38 |
| schlomo | ok :) | 02:38 |
| schlomo | ACM | 02:39 |
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| lunitik | Is there any work around for the locales issue? (bugzilla #21436) - I'd ask in #ubuntu but I'm banned.... | 04:20 |
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| lunitik | k... thanks for your help :/ | 04:22 |
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| Amaranth | liar, he isn't in the ban list | 04:38 |
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| pef | hello | 07:45 |
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| pvanhoof | I recently upgraded to ubuntu dapper, but list my cute X11 mouse cursor | 11:41 |
| pvanhoof | how do I regain it? :) | 11:41 |
| pvanhoof | s/list/lost | 11:41 |
| pvanhoof | I'm addicted to that cute thing! | 11:41 |
| pvanhoof | oh, and there's some problems with the cups packages. Some rc.invoke script fails | 11:42 |
| pvanhoof | and the latest kernel has it's include files installed wrongfully. But I simply installed the kernel source package, changed the version in version.h and used that to build my VMWare modules (which works) | 11:42 |
| pvanhoof | would be nice if it would get fixed ;0 | 11:43 |
| pvanhoof | ;) | 11:43 |
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| mpt | pvanhoof, this is a developer channel, and most of the developers are on holiday | 11:57 |
| mpt | Besides, dapper is not an "upgrade" as long as it's not finished :-) | 11:57 |
| pvanhoof | ok :) | 11:58 |
| mpt | You'd probably have better luck reporting bugs in bugzilla.ubuntu.com | 11:58 |
| pvanhoof | yeah, was going to do that | 11:58 |
| Pygi | pvanhoof: after all, you can always try to uninstall it first. then install it | 11:59 |
| pvanhoof | oh, but I just installed it. Why would I want to uninstall it? :) | 11:59 |
| Pygi | I meant the mouse cursor :) | 11:59 |
| pvanhoof | ah, is it a package? | 12:00 |
| pvanhoof | that might have slipped during the install then | 12:00 |
| pvanhoof | err, upgrade | 12:00 |
| Pygi | heh :) | 12:01 |
| Pygi | try do that, it may fix it :) | 12:01 |
| pvanhoof | which package? | 12:01 |
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| Pygi | try xcursorgen with all it's dependencies | 12:05 |
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| Pygi | wb | 12:16 |
| Yagisan | Is there some lag on the mirrors atm ? I received pitti's notice about new kernels 2 days ago, and still don't see them @ au.archive.ubuntu.com | 12:19 |
| jbailey | Yagisan: I would expect them to be on security.ubuntu.com | 12:19 |
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| Yagisan | jbailey: by default apt was set up with a breezy-security line and my "local" mirror | 12:21 |
| Yagisan | I'd assume that should have taken care of it | 12:22 |
| jbailey | *shrug* I don't have good answers, only answer. | 12:23 |
| Yagisan | jbailey: thanks anyway, being less the 2 hours until christmas, I didn't expect anyone to answer | 12:25 |
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| zul | merry christmas | 03:25 |
| zakame | merry christmas too zul :) 'tis only an hour and a half away here :) | 03:26 |
| zakame | in .ph | 03:26 |
| zul | cool | 03:26 |
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| zakame | hi smurf | 03:37 |
| HiddenWolf | jdub, nice job bringing reason to the spatial debate on gnome-desktop-devel. Thumbs up. | 03:39 |
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| alejandro | hi | 03:52 |
| mhz | hi alejandro | 03:57 |
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| lamont | configure.in:220: error: possibly undefined macro: AM_PROG_LIBTOOL | 05:17 |
| lamont | poor dbus | 05:17 |
| BenC | anyone with a UP amd64 want to test a kernel for me? | 05:17 |
| lamont | BenC: I have 32-bit user space, but I could test it later today if you want | 05:18 |
| BenC | lamont: http://people.ubuntu.com/~bcollins/kernels/amd64-alternative-smp/ | 05:18 |
| lamont | I'm assuming that you'reconfident it won't trash my filesystem or anything like that... | 05:18 |
| BenC | it's an SMP kernel | 05:18 |
| BenC | yes, all should be safe | 05:18 |
| BenC | it will either crash or boot :) | 05:18 |
| lamont | model name : AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3500+ | 05:19 |
| lamont | which beast do I want for that? | 05:19 |
| BenC | after you boot it do "dmesg | grep SMP" and see if you see a message like "SMP alternatives: switching to UP code" | 05:19 |
| BenC | -k8-smp | 05:19 |
| lamont | fetching now - holler if someone beats me to testing it.. | 05:20 |
| BenC | the more testers the better | 05:20 |
| lamont | otherwise, I'll munge it and install once I get back from running to town and such. | 05:20 |
| lamont | ok | 05:20 |
| lamont | I'll plan on testing in any case then | 05:20 |
| BenC | no one has tested it yet | 05:20 |
| BenC | thanks | 05:20 |
| lamont | of course, if it comes up and tells me I have 2 processors, that'll be cool too.:-) | 05:21 |
| === lamont notes that php5 is ftbfs (needs to switch to libd4.3) | ||
| === lamont wanders off for a while | ||
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| lamont | dpkg-deb: building package `linux-image-2.6.15-10-amd64-k8-smp' in `../linux-image-2.6.15-10-amd64-k8-smp_2.6.15-10.15_i386.deb'. | 05:40 |
| neuralis | BenC: ping | 05:43 |
| tseng | lamont: is there a default -j to MAKEOPTS in the builders? | 05:49 |
| tseng | lamont: > 1 | 05:49 |
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| BenC | neuralis: pong | 06:06 |
| neuralis | BenC: can you take a look at wiki/ServerTesting (bottom of page) and see what else you'd like on there? | 06:07 |
| neuralis | i wrote that in 10 minutes at 4am, so i quite likely missed several things | 06:07 |
| BenC | reading... | 06:09 |
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| BenC | neuralis: When reporting bugs, tell them to make sure to include atleast dmesg, and also check https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DebuggingProcedures for other things they can do prior to submitting the bug report | 06:13 |
| neuralis | will do. anything else they should be testing? | 06:15 |
| tseng | lamont: also, im told mvo can not build mono in even a breezy chroot on ppc buildd, which built fine before.. is something amiss with the system? | 06:18 |
| tseng | lamont: its not reproducable on similar systems | 06:19 |
| slomo | lamont: and it does also happen now for versions that worked before on that machine | 06:20 |
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| BenC | neuralis: that's pretty close to it | 06:32 |
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| decklin | where is the 'component' box in bugzilla? (when entering a new report) | 06:53 |
| slomo | decklin: for new bugreports you should use launchpad.net/malone | 07:00 |
| decklin | oh, ok. thank you. | 07:01 |
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| decklin | argh. ok, i created a bugzilla account 10 minutes ago, and that generated password does not work on malone, but malone also says my email is already registered. | 07:09 |
| Amaranth | decklin: your wiki account should be your launchpad account | 07:11 |
| Amaranth | slomo: all new bugs are going to malone now? | 07:11 |
| slomo | Amaranth: afaik yes | 07:12 |
| decklin | Amaranth: i'm pretty sure i don't have a wiki account. | 07:12 |
| decklin | this is for an address i use on Debian packages, if that matters | 07:12 |
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| decklin | (well, a reset worked. ok, sorry to bother everyone.) | 07:18 |
| \sh | evening | 07:24 |
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| lamont | tseng: no. gcc has certain options (-pipe) forced, and defaults certain others (but not on ppc) | 08:07 |
| lamont | tseng: what did change is possibly ppc vs ppc64 on the base system | 08:07 |
| lamont | there could also be toolchain diffs between when it built and when it shipped. | 08:08 |
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| lamont | BenC: hrm... that new kernel requires a dapper initramfs-tools... what else does it need from dapper? | 08:09 |
| \sh_away | merry christmas to all of you :) | 08:10 |
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| xhaker | \sh, to you too | 08:23 |
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| siretart | merry xmas to you all! | 08:51 |
| siretart | does anyone happen to have an older version of xserver-xorg-driver-ati than xserver-xorg-driver-ati_6.5.7.2-0ubuntu1_i386? | 08:51 |
| \sh | whiprush: your christmas present is on its way :) | 08:55 |
| whiprush | heh | 08:55 |
| \sh | ah well...dapper-changes message is already there :) | 08:56 |
| whiprush | heh | 08:58 |
| whiprush | neato, thanks! | 08:58 |
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| \sh | ok..guys ... have some nice presents...nice celebrations :) cu later these days :) | 08:59 |
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| xhaker | siretart, i got xserver-xorg-driver-ati_6.5.7-0ubuntu3_i386.deb | 09:17 |
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| tseng | lamont: hm i ruled out toolchain on account of it failing the same on breezy chroot | 10:12 |
| tseng | lamont: and merry christmas, you have the patience of a saint | 10:12 |
| tseng | :P | 10:12 |
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| BenC | lamont: probably udev | 10:22 |
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| hub | the locales package does not want to install | 10:34 |
| hub | it is a dapper upgrade from flight CD 2 | 10:34 |
| hub | any take? | 10:35 |
| tseng | dist-upgrade agaain | 10:37 |
| slomo | yes... a second try fixed it for me too ;) | 10:37 |
| hub | I tried it several time | 10:38 |
| hub | I'll try again | 10:38 |
| hub | still the same | 10:38 |
| hub | I tried 2 times in a row | 10:38 |
| hub | all it says is | 10:38 |
| hub | dpkg: error processing /var/cache/apt/archives/locales_2.3.7-1_all.deb (--unpack): | 10:38 |
| hub | subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1 | 10:38 |
| hub | Errors were encountered while processing: | 10:38 |
| Sepheebear | its the preinst script | 10:39 |
| Sepheebear | it doesnt check for the target dir before trying to write a file | 10:39 |
| hub | oh | 10:39 |
| hub | so? | 10:39 |
| hub | is there a workaround? | 10:39 |
| tseng | (make the directory?) | 10:40 |
| hub | mpitt email on ubuntu announce was not really clear | 10:40 |
| hub | which directory? | 10:40 |
| Sepheebear | yeah: sudo mkdir -p /var/lib/locales/supported.d | 10:40 |
| Sepheebear | then it goes smoothly again | 10:40 |
| hub | still | 10:40 |
| tseng | its not clear because its only a problem with dapper -> dapper | 10:40 |
| tseng | which isnt supported | 10:41 |
| hub | yeah I knoe | 10:41 |
| Sepheebear | bugzilla #21419 | 10:41 |
| hub | sure | 10:42 |
| hub | but the mkdir does not do anything | 10:42 |
| hub | the directory already did exists | 10:42 |
| Sepheebear | check the output of "dpkg -i /var/cache/apt/archives/locales_2.3.7-1_all.deb" | 10:44 |
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| Gatorade | I have a problem with my live cd can anyone help? | 11:21 |
| Gatorade | When I load the cd my mouse does not respon | 11:21 |
| Gatorade | repond* | 11:21 |
| Gatorade | and the optical lights inside don't work | 11:22 |
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| Gatorade | help | 11:24 |
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| JanC | Gatorade: this is a channel for the developers to work together, try asking on #ubuntu | 11:58 |
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