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=== Topic for #ubuntu-artwork: Wrap up for Breezy and get a coherent development framework reader early in the Dapper cycle. A meeting on this and various other issues is due to occur soon, so stick around. :)
=== Topic (#ubuntu-artwork): set by klepas at Sat Oct 22 13:00:01 2005
=== #ubuntu-artwork  [freenode-info]  If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
[05:39] <mhz> klepas: hi there!
[05:40] <mhz> 01:38 AM of sunday here in Chile
[05:40] <mhz> you?
[06:11] <klepas> 16:11
[06:11] <klepas> be back in a little while
[06:11] <klepas> got some hardware issues
=== megabyte405 [n=megabyte@user-0cdvltn.cable.mindspring.com]  has joined #ubuntu-artwork
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[07:05] <klepas> mhz: back :)
[07:26] <klepas> anyone awake?
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[11:46] <lukacu> morning
[11:48] <klepas> moin
[11:48] <klepas> and Merry Christmas
[11:49] <klepas> :)
[11:49] <lukacu> hello klepas
[11:50] <lukacu> and merry christmas
[11:55] <omeg> Merry Christmas everyone
[11:58] <klepas> so
[11:58] <klepas> you guys
[11:58] <klepas> when would you like the art meeting held?
[12:07] <lukacu> 29. 12. somewhere between 0900 and 2300 GTM ... 
[12:07] <lukacu> :)
[12:08] <lukacu> and we still have to write agenda
[12:10] <klepas> i've written it
[12:10] <klepas> all in that email
[12:10] <klepas> i just need to find it from the archives
[12:10] <klepas> and repost it
[12:10] <klepas> because the mail server seemed to have some problems with it
[12:12] <lukacu> ok
[12:13] <lukacu> i will paste it in wiki agenda page and then send the link to the ml
[12:16] <klepas> mmh
[12:16] <klepas> cool
[12:16] <klepas> hey
[12:16] <klepas> where can i find the ubuntu-art ML archives?
[12:20] <lukacu> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/
[12:20] <klepas> oh
[12:20] <klepas> thanks :)
[12:22] <klepas> i'll send it out tonight
[12:41] <mhz> moin
[12:42] <mhz> klepas: can I suggest you propose 2 dates and times are best for you, and then we -esp. the ones know nothing about art but will follow the lead- just vote ?
[01:24] <klepas> yep
[01:24] <klepas> how about we set up a vote?
[01:24] <klepas> i can set up a poll on my website
[01:25] <mhz> cool
[01:27] <mhz> or, the harder or less friendly way but keeping a moin record, would be we vote using Moin features for tables and icons
[01:27] <mhz> :)
[01:33] <klepas> yep
[01:33] <klepas> mmh
[01:33] <klepas> could you set that up?
[01:38] <mhz> sure!
[01:38] <mhz> my only doubt is if users will give some loving to it ;)
[01:39] <mhz> well, Moin users, yes. We like moin very much so we appreciate these details
[01:39] <klepas> moin?
[01:39] <klepas> i know the expression
[01:39] <klepas> but if it something else, then i'm confused :)
[01:43] <mhz> heheh, the other use, klepas, is Moin = MoinMoin wiki, the technology we use in Ubuntu sites
[01:51] <klepas> ah, :)
[02:53] <mhz> klepas: ping
[02:53] <mhz> klepas: http://wiki.edubuntu.org/ArtworkTeamMeetings
[02:53] <mhz> edit as you need
=== mhz will have breakfast now
=== mhz bbl
[03:02] <lukacu> mhz: good template, now all we have to do is to think of two proposals :)
[03:07] <mhz> lukacu: hehe, indeed
[03:11] <mhz> klepas, lukacu, artnay, guys: do you think ArtTeam should cover all 'art' aspects? wiki CSS, icons, logos, themes for all desktops (gnome, kde, xcfe, wmaker, fluxbox, fwm, etc), wallpapers, licensing issues, etc?
[03:11] <mhz> luanchpad artwork?
[03:15] <klepas> yea
[03:15] <klepas> would be nice
[03:15] <klepas> since the eventual goal of the art team is to work on all art
[03:15] <artnay> umh
[03:16] <artnay> hello guys
[03:16] <klepas> hey artnay 
[03:16] <klepas> Merry Christmas!
[03:16] <artnay> mhz: I'd like to see more contributions on *box, E17 etc. themes in AUC
[03:16] <artnay> klepas: did you request imagemagick?
[03:16] <klepas> for AUC server?
[03:17] <artnay> yes
[03:17] <artnay> launchpad is proprietary so we should ask before doing anything
[03:18] <klepas> yea
[03:18] <klepas> for now
[03:18] <klepas> wiki ought to do
[03:18] <artnay> the main focus should be on GNOME desktop
[03:18] <klepas> we're not that special
[03:18] <klepas> artnay: for now
[03:19] <artnay> right? at least most of ubuntu users do use G
[03:19] <klepas> but once we unite KDE and XFCE people as well...
[03:22] <mhz> launchpad is not Free as In freedom?????
[03:23] <mhz> yup, could any of you 'the more active' people send an email to each desktop ML, please? 
[03:24] <mhz> telling them you are cordinating a meeting we'd like them to attend?
[03:24] <artnay> at least desktop team should be informed. they might do some dupe work
[03:24] <artnay> little co-operation here
[03:26] <mhz> IMHO, all art related team should coordinate stuff here and work 'locally' in their # if they want
[03:29] <artnay> why isn't there any usability tests that both tango and oxygen would use? or is there?
[03:29] <mhz> artnay: maybe you could ask in the Accessibility Team ML
[03:30] <mhz> Henrik and others are real committed to a11y issues
[03:30] <mhz> artnay: sorry
[03:31] <mhz> I mean, you could email those guys, or if you want.. I paste the body (I am subscribed to that ML)
[03:32] <artnay> sorry about what? :)
[03:32] <mhz> .oO(but again... that is a subject that really needs help and I am too ignorant, so I follow their lead)
[03:32] <mhz> inviting them to the art meeting
[03:32] <mhz> they are trying to provide Ubuntu ready-to-use by people with physical problems
=== klepas is doing the poll now :)
[03:35] <klepas> done!
[03:35] <klepas> everyone: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeamMeetings
=== mhz tabbing
[03:36] <artnay> mhz: what about scim? :o
[03:36] <klepas> and a new mail is out
[03:36] <mhz> scim?
[03:36] <klepas> done
[03:36] <klepas> now we just wait
[03:37] <mhz> cool, klepas, I will just edit a small typo
=== ..[topic/#ubuntu-artwork:klepas] : Art Team meeting soon! Please place your vote on an applicable time slot now [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeamMeetings]  to make this meeting happen. Merry Christmas everyone! :)
[03:38] <klepas> there we are :)
[03:38] <artnay> umh
[03:39] <klepas> did i miss something artnay ? :)
[03:39] <artnay> artwork-todo should be updated and splitted into wiki pages 
[03:39] <artnay> wiki rework, eh?
[03:40] <klepas> yep
[03:40] <klepas> btw
[03:40] <klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/node/106
[03:40] <klepas> :)
[03:40] <mhz> klepas: we have a little issue
[03:40] <klepas> mhz: yep?
[03:40] <mhz> klepas: can I suggest we have a due date for voting?
[03:40] <mhz> :)
[03:40] <klepas> yes, good idea
[03:40] <mhz> Otherwise, people will vote last hour
[03:40] <mhz> or too late
[03:41] <mhz> klepas: BUT
[03:41] <mhz> don't edit yet, please
[03:41] <mhz> I am there as well
[03:41] <klepas> i know
[03:41] <mhz> ;)
[03:41] <mhz> oh
[03:41] <klepas> i'm getting the warning :)
[03:41] <mhz> right
[03:41] <klepas> :)
[03:41] <mhz> I love Moin wiki!
[03:41] <mhz> now the BUT is:
[03:41] <mhz> if 1st date is Tuesday 13 GMT...
[03:42] <mhz> closing voting is Monday?
[03:42] <mhz> and today is Sunday here :D
[03:42] <lukacu> mhz: oh ... ive already cast my vote ... i hope it is ok
[03:42] <mhz> hehehe
[03:42] <mhz> we'll see
[03:42] <klepas> monday would be good
[03:42] <mhz> thx for telling me, so can be cautious and copy my content before 'saving' (just in case)
[03:43] <mhz> monday, klepas
[03:43] <mhz> another issue
[03:43] <mhz> is that standrard meeting calls are UTC
[03:43] <mhz> (based on other ubuntu meetings
[03:44] <mhz> klepas: so, what UTC time will we close voting?
[03:44] <klepas> um
[03:44] <klepas> what's the place in the world
[03:44] <klepas> that is furthest behind
[03:45] <mhz> hehehe, no idea :)
[03:45] <klepas> because then it would be 23:59 UTC of that time
[03:45] <mhz> I know Chile is currently UTC -3
[03:45] <klepas> probably Greenwhich, England
[03:45] <klepas> 20 UTC?
[03:46] <klepas> http://mirror.linux.org.au/podcasts/la-update/laupdate_ep_12_20051224.ogg <--- 09:50 minutes into the show ;)
[03:46] <mhz> which date is 13 GMT = UTC ?
[03:46] <mhz> sorry!  which time is 13 GMT = UTC ?
=== klepas is clueless
[03:46] <klepas> mmh
[03:46] <klepas> bet there is some sort of converter on the net
=== mhz is saving changes so you see his idea for moin syntax
[03:48] <klepas> yep
[03:49] <lukacu> mhz: according to http://www.dxing.com/utcgmt.htm utc and gmt are the same...
[03:49] <mhz> LOL!!!
[03:49] <lukacu> if that was the question...
[03:50] <klepas> any of you guys downloaded this -> http://mirror.linux.org.au/podcasts/la-update/laupdate_ep_12_20051224.ogg
[03:50] <mhz> yup, lukacu 
[03:50] <klepas> ?
[03:50] <mhz> klepas: what is that ogg about?
[03:52] <klepas> Linux Australia update
[03:52] <klepas> has an interview with me in it
[03:52] <klepas> :P
[03:52] <klepas> 09:40-ish onwards
[03:53] <lukacu> klepas: downloading it right now :)
[03:53] <klepas> ;)
[03:53] <klepas> basically...
[03:53] <klepas> there is this thing called LCA
[03:53] <klepas> Linux Conference Australia
[03:54] <klepas> largest GNU/Linux and open source conference in the southern hemisphere
[03:54] <klepas> the next one is on in 28 days
[03:54] <klepas> 23rd January, 2006
[03:54] <klepas> for 7 days
[03:55] <klepas> Linus Torvald, Mark Shuttleworth, Andrew Fitzsimon and Jeff Waugh are just some of the people going
[03:55] <klepas> and LA, Linux Australia, of which I am a member, has just had a member of the year award
[03:55] <klepas> which someone nominated me for
[03:55] <klepas> and now i seemed to have won
[03:55] <lukacu> :D
[03:55] <klepas> so i'll be attending LCA 2006 as well
[03:55] <klepas> :)
=== mhz is done with Moin syntaxis. He thinks it's ok now
=== mhz gotta cook
[03:56] <mhz> :(
[03:57] <klepas> thanks mhz_BBL :)
[03:58] <mhz_BBL> yw, klepas later on, I may also add a wiki page for the meeting in the url you pasted
[03:59] <klepas> ah, rightio
[03:59] <klepas> thanks so much
[03:59] <lukacu> klepas: listening to the ogg... ;)
[03:59] <klepas> much appreciated
[03:59] <klepas> lukacu: yea... me + excitement = bad interview
[04:00] <klepas> and i am very excited right now
=== klepas will try to lynch as many Ubuntu related things from the conference, whether cds, posters, advertising things, bookmarks and whatnot else
=== klepas will also try to get Mark Shuttleworth to sign an Ubuntu cd :)
[04:07] <lukacu> klepas: 9:30 now
[04:07] <lukacu> ;)
[04:13] <klepas> :)
[04:18] <klepas> what do you think? :)
[04:19] <lukacu> it is a good interview but the quality of the ogg is a bit poor... i could not understand evrything
[04:20] <lukacu> but then again i am not a native english speaker ;)
[04:20] <klepas> yea
[04:20] <klepas> connection wasn't all too good
[04:22] <lukacu> but i ve got lots of info about you ... similar to reading a cv :)
[04:24] <klepas> now you do, or you had?
[04:24] <lukacu> what? ... now i have ... from this interview 
[04:25] <klepas> ah, good :)
[04:25] <klepas> hehe
[04:25] <lukacu> why would i collect info about you before ;)
[04:25] <klepas> lol
[04:25] <klepas> i don't know
[04:25] <klepas> it's all here [http://wombat.nuxified.com/about] 
[04:25] <klepas> well the basics :)
[04:25] <lukacu> i am not some kind of freak ... or like let say cia :D
[04:27] <klepas> lol
[04:27] <klepas> lukacu the stalker
[04:27] <klepas> :P
[04:28] <lukacu> however i thought you were older ... like 25 or something :)
[04:29] <lukacu> dont know why realy
[04:30] <klepas> hehe
[04:30] <klepas> from the interview's voice
[04:30] <klepas> or just from before?
[04:31] <lukacu> from before and form the voice :)
[04:31] <lukacu> s/form/from
[04:33] <klepas> ah, rightio
[04:33] <klepas> well...
[04:33] <lukacu> and the part about german roots ... you have german roots or is germany just the place of your birth?
[04:33] <klepas> born there
[04:33] <klepas> and i am still german
[04:33] <klepas> and we speak it at home
[04:33] <klepas> other than that
[04:33] <klepas> I am a citizen of the world!
[04:34] <lukacu> lol
[04:34] <klepas> i consider myself one
[04:34] <klepas> not particularly drawn to Australia
[04:34] <klepas> or Germany
[04:34] <klepas> in patriotism
[04:34] <klepas> i mean, lovely places
[04:34] <klepas> but national pride of any country
[04:35] <klepas> =non
[04:35] <klepas> by the way
[04:35] <klepas> http://wombat.nuxified.com/gallery/Photos/Graduation-Formal-2005/S4301470-small.jpg
[04:35] <klepas> photo of me
[04:35] <klepas> this year :)
[04:35] <klepas> actually. this month
[04:35] <lukacu> :)
[04:36] <klepas> i guess i don't look 16 in that either, eh?
[04:36] <lukacu> no :D
[04:36] <klepas> what would you judge?
[04:39] <lukacu> um? ... judge what?
[04:39] <klepas> age
[04:39] <klepas> from the picture
[04:40] <lukacu> oh
[04:41] <lukacu> i am not really goot at judging from pictures but id say 20
[04:41] <lukacu> :)
[04:41] <lukacu> at least
=== klepas laughs
[04:42] <klepas> cool :)
[04:43] <lukacu> mind though that i am realy not good at that ;)
[04:43] <klepas> no problems :)
[04:43] <klepas> alright
[04:43] <artnay> umh, did I miss something? :)
[04:43] <klepas> make sure you've voted
[04:43] <klepas> both of you
=== artnay reading
[04:43] <klepas> see the topic
[04:44] <lukacu> i have ... or at least i think i have :)
[04:45] <klepas> :)
[04:45] <klepas> time to sleep m'thinks
[04:45] <klepas> good night/day
[04:45] <klepas> and a Merry Christmas to all of you
[04:45] <klepas> cheerio :)
[04:45] <lukacu> good night klepas
[08:42] <mhz_BBL> artnay: ping
[08:45] <lukacu> hello mhz
[08:46] <mhz> lukacu: hi
[08:46] <mhz> so far.. thursday it is
[08:46] <lukacu> yes
[08:48] <lukacu> how can i see whole history of the page in moinmoin wiki?
[08:48] <mhz> simple..
[08:48] <mhz> lukacu: just the history of 1 page?
[08:48] <lukacu> yes ... i am used to mediawiki
[08:48] <mhz> then, click on GetInfo
[08:49] <mhz> lukacu: mediawiki is very cool
[08:49] <mhz> however, I have my strong point in favor of Moin ;)
[08:49] <lukacu> simple indeed :D
[08:49] <mhz> hehe
[08:49] <mhz> that's the idea
[08:50] <mhz> lukacu: did yo know that Moin data is 100% filed as plain text? so backing up is copy/paste process
[08:51] <artnay> hey mhz
[08:51] <lukacu> mhz: what do you mean by plain text? ... no database?
[08:51] <mhz> artnay: good you are here
[08:52] <artnay> mhz: you too :)
[08:52] <mhz> lukacu: that's the magic of it. Moin devel guys did a very clever use of their Python Powers
[08:52] <mhz> just plain text
[08:52] <lukacu> nice
[08:52] <mhz> but the front end is nice html :)
[08:54] <lukacu> mhz: you have mentioned a wiki page for agenda before?
[08:54] <mhz> yup, I am 3 minutes of creating such page
=== mhz finishes reading inbox
[08:55] <lukacu> :)
[08:59] <artnay> ok, so next thing would be doing a wiki page of artwork-todo
[09:00] <lukacu> yeah ... thats the agenda page i think ... or not?
[09:04] <artnay> well the artwork-todo page there on the post is outdated
[09:04] <artnay> http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-December/000543.html
[09:04] <artnay> and the copy is on klepas' server
[09:04] <artnay> so if we want to edit that, let's do a wiki page of it
[09:05] <artnay> because we need separate pages for all that stuff, maybe one could utilize the information that's been written there
[09:05] <lukacu> ok
[09:06] <artnay> is it too dirty if we paste it all to one page for now?
[09:07] <artnay> it is, it should be separated now :)
[09:08] <mhz> please guys, visit http://wiki.edubuntu.org/ArtworkTeamMeetings
[09:08] <lukacu> it is ok if we put it on a single page ... just add some wiki syntax
[09:09] <mhz> and also.. http://wiki.edubuntu.org/ArtworkTeamVoting
[09:09] <artnay> mhz: that makes me wonder... it's out of ubuntu wiki
[09:09] <mhz> hahaha
[09:09] <mhz> nope
[09:09] <mhz> not at all
[09:10] <mhz> see same url and change for ubuntu instead
[09:10] <mhz> and add https
[09:10] <lukacu> and com
[09:10] <mhz> all wikis in ubuntu sites
[09:10] <mhz> share same /data dir
[09:10] <artnay> silly me 
[09:10] <mhz> not silly
[09:11] <mhz> I had same problem the first time i saw it
[09:11] <mhz> :D
[09:14] <artnay> for fuck's sake!
[09:15] <artnay> I was just writing a wiki page when FX locked up!
[09:15] <artnay> and that happens only in GNOME, dammit
[09:15] <artnay> FX is behaves 100 percently correct in KDE, IceWM, E17 and fluxbox
[09:16] <lukacu> thats strange
[09:18] <lukacu> it behaves (mostly) fine on my pc ... but hey, thats software ;)
[09:28] <artnay> ok now
[09:28] <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
[09:28] <artnay> it's quite GNOME-centric
[09:28] <artnay> now some [[BR}}ing :p
[09:29] <artnay> or then not if I'm going to do typos like that
[09:31] <artnay> yep, I definitely am
[09:31] <lukacu> :)
[09:32] <artnay> now it's time for a ciggie, after that I might try to get something done
[09:48] <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoList
[09:48] <artnay> I did some cleaning on it
[09:53] <artnay> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal - link to meeting added
[09:53] <artnay> that page should be cleaned as well... :)
[09:54] <mhz_thinking> artnay: i'll be able to take a look at it in about 1 hour, probebly :(
=== mhz_thinking BBS
[10:35] <artnay> mhz, still thinking? :)
[11:30] <artnay> lukacu: any word of imagemagick?
[11:31] <lukacu> no
[11:31] <lukacu> no word from henrik at all
[11:31] <lukacu> dont know what to do next
[11:36] <artnay> same thing with the branding guide
[11:36] <artnay> hope they could show up when the meeting takes place
[11:37] <lukacu> yeah
[11:40] <artnay> anyways, I've been informing people (Ubuntuforums members, desktop team on IRC) of the upcoming meeting
[11:42] <lukacu> good work ... i think you should be a substitute leader of the team
=== lllmanulll [n=manu@dan75-4-82-239-58-38.fbx.proxad.net]  has joined #ubuntu-artwork
[11:42] <artnay> rather not
[11:42] <artnay> hey lllmanulll 
[11:43] <artnay> anyways, I mailed volvoguy
[11:43] <lukacu> artnay: thats just my opinion
[11:44] <artnay> lukacu: I'll do what I can, but I think I have some timing problems :(
[11:44] <lukacu> oh ... what kind of timing problems?
[11:44] <artnay> lukacu: work, girlfriend and such :p
[11:45] <artnay> lllmanulll: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal
[11:45] <lukacu> artnay: oh ... dont we all have that kind of timing problems ;)
[11:45] <artnay> lllmanulll: there will be a meeting most probably on the 29th of Dec. hopefully you can participate!
[11:46] <lllmanulll> Hey there :)
=== lllmanulll wishes a merry christmas to everyone
[11:46] <artnay> you too, mate
[11:46] <lllmanulll> artnay : sure, I'll be tere :)
[11:46] <lukacu> hohoho ... merry christmas to you too lllmanulll
[11:48] <lllmanulll> artnay : will there be an announcement on the list ?
[11:48] <artnay> lllmanulll: there already is, actually two of them
=== nomed [n=debaser@host233-198.pool8254.interbusiness.it]  has joined #ubuntu-artwork
[11:49] <nomed> hi all
[11:49] <artnay> hi nomed
[11:49] <lukacu> hello nomed
[11:50] <nomed> i would try to make an ubuntu-artwork like package for my project ...
[11:50] <nomed> is there any tut i can follow ?
[11:50] <artnay> ask ogra, he has packaged that meta-package
[11:51] <nomed> i see that ubuntu-artwork source has been made using some tool ..
[11:51] <nomed> there are Makefile.am | in and so on ..
[11:51] <artnay> no, sorry. actually apt-cache show gives me this: Maintainer: Jeff Waugh <jdub@perkypants.org>
[11:51] <artnay> although ogra is the packager of artwork team
[11:52] <nomed> ogra ? :)
[11:52] <nomed> are you available ... ?
[11:52] <artnay>  /msg jdub, he likes all kind of bugging :p
[11:52] <nomed> artnay, i see that in the roadmap there are even entries about metadistros .. it would be nice to have a tut about packaging metadistros' artworks ..
[11:53] <nomed> hehehehe
[11:54] <artnay> sounds like a tutorial that should be covered in /Artwork ;)
[11:56] <artnay> nomed: what is your project? may I ask?
[11:56] <nomed> http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/
[11:57] <artnay> oh, nice. one for me, please.
[11:58] <nomed> i'm organizing now the new home page ..
[11:58] <nomed> i switched to mediawiki .. 
[11:58] <nomed> and the "core" syuff is done .. time to fix the packages ...
[11:59] <nomed> i need to generate a new trunk within svn for dsslive-artwork .. 
[11:59] <nomed> and i link from there these images
[11:59] <nomed> http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/index.php/Roadmap-0.3-1:Menu#File_Managers
[12:00] <nomed> that's way i need now to know how to generate such package