[01:24] <hub> still can't insall locales
[04:04] <zakame> config
[04:32] <poimen> someone here writes in c?
[04:40] <bmonty> elmo: please sync solfege from unstable, ok to drop ubuntu changes
[04:40] <crimsun> hey, I was just going to ask ;)
[04:41] <bmonty> crimsun: heh...I beat you to it, and you opened a dup bug :)
[04:42] <crimsun> bmonty: :)
[04:42] <bmonty> Merry Christmas!
[04:42] <crimsun> you, too :)
[04:45] <zakame> still gard at work huh? :)
[04:45] <zakame> *hard
[05:28] <tseng> floam: what the hell
[05:46] <seth_k|lappy> thank goodness for topic history
[06:58] <floam> tseng: what the fuck
[06:58] <floam> god damn it, sorry
[06:58] <floam> tseng: it's xmas, some 12 year old found this PC.
[06:59] <floam> guess they thought xchat's topic bar would take them to a website
[07:02] <desrt> hahahah
[07:03] <desrt> xchat's topic bar does look remarkably like a webbrowser location bar
[08:00] <zakame> is it just me, or did somebody delete PrintingRoadmap in the wiki?
[08:02] <zakame> ah, it was moved... ignore /me
[07:06] <robertj> anything horribly broke in dapper at the moment?
[07:06] <ogra_ibook> not here
[07:07] <robertj> dist-upgrade it is then!
[07:07] <ogra_ibook> hmm... i wouldnt *dist*-upgrade 
[07:07] <ogra_ibook> (at least not in a development release)
[07:08] <robertj> nothing on this machine, so no need to worry
[07:08] <ogra_ibook> your choice ;)
[07:10] <Robot101> ogra_ibook: the key is reading what apt suggests... :P
[07:10] <robertj> my key is apathy
[07:10] <ogra_ibook> Robot101, exactly :)
[07:11] <robertj> although I do remember about 6 years ago one dist-upgrade decided base needed to go
[07:11] <ogra_ibook> my key is cherrypicking from the held back packages# 
[07:12] <tseng> i dont have anything held back
[07:12] <tseng> last was gnome-cups
[07:12] <ogra_ibook> i installed flight 2 on this lappie yesterday, there was a lot held back
[07:13] <ogra_ibook> (not anymore though)
[07:35] <hub> robertj: locales does not install for me
[07:35] <hub> I filed a bug
[07:37] <ogra_ibook> does not install for you ? or does not set the locales ? 
[07:38] <hub> fails to install
[07:38] <ogra_ibook> oh, odd ...
[07:38] <hub> I filed a bugzilla
[07:38] <ogra_ibook> works fine here
[07:38] <hub> yeah I know
[07:38] <ogra_ibook> i just have to run locale-gen manually
[07:38] <hub> can't
[07:47] <robertj> how's your new laptop?
[07:49] <hub> robertj: fast
[07:49] <ogra_ibook> hub, hwat is it ? 
[07:49] <ogra_ibook> *what
[07:49] <robertj> yeah, I upgraded from a 1.6ghz celeron to a 1.4 ghz celeron and was shocked at the speed increase, I'm sure yours had to be substantial ;)
[07:49] <robertj> btw, I still really like my G3 900 ibook when it is working
[07:49] <hub> ogra_ibook: ibm z60t
[07:50] <ogra_ibook> cool
[07:50] <robertj> it's been back twice for the logic board and now I've got a power adapter I have to order but work is footing the bill, otherwise I'd be mad
[07:50] <hub> robertj: from g3/400 to Centrino 1.73
[07:50] <ogra_ibook> i got me this shiny G4 ibook :)
[07:50] <hub> ogra_ibook: with the unsupported wireless?
[07:51] <ogra_ibook> got it working fine now
[07:51] <ogra_ibook> just compiled the latest bcm43xx trunk
[07:52] <ogra_ibook> the one in the 2.6.15-9 package locked my system ... 
[07:52] <robertj> what I want to know is if the intel ibook will have two mouse buttons, if I so I think that may be my next work laptop, otherwise it will probably be a tablet model
[07:53] <ogra_ibook> call apple and ask ;) 
[07:53] <ogra_ibook> i have no prob using the synaptics driver over here ... so i got virtually 3 mouse buttons
[07:54] <robertj> I don't like the touch to click, I always turn it off
[07:55] <robertj> yup, locals busted here as well
[07:55] <tuhl> is this a know bug in the devel branch: cupsd is always exiting
[07:55] <robertj> err locales
[07:55] <robertj> and yup, running it by hand is still b0rk
[07:56] <ogra_ibook> make sure the langpacks are installed too
[07:57] <hub> robertj: I hate touch to click as well
[07:57] <robertj> it just feels bad to me but I wonder if there are also RSI implications
[07:57] <hub> bugz 21489
[07:58] <ogra_ibook> i prefer it to extensive f12 usage
[07:58] <hub> ogra_ibook: I catch myself doing that on the ibm
[07:58] <robertj> caps lock seems like a good candidate for that
[07:58] <ogra_ibook> heh
[07:58] <hub> robertj: that bug I mentionned is about the locales
[07:58] <robertj> I err...don't know what I do...I guess I hit f12 but maybe I just don't right click...
[07:59] <robertj> touch to scroll however is great
[07:59] <ogra_ibook> ++
[08:03] <robertj> what's going on these days in directory-services land on the integration front?
[08:38] <wasabi_> hahahaha  im on the internet
[08:42] <ogra_ibook> wasabi_, nope... youre wrong, we're all in your lan :P
[08:46] <poningru> http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/clique
[08:51] <wasabi_> haha
[08:57] <mjg59> Hurrah!
[08:58] <mjg59> It says "No Dialtone"
[08:58] <mjg59> Now I just need to plug it into a phoneline and test
[09:00] <hub> poningru: I read that one
[09:13] <mhz> ogra_ibook: I have been told LP is not 'free as in freedom'. Is that so?
[09:14] <ogra_ibook> mhz, yes, it will be GPLed one day
[09:15] <ogra_ibook> mhz, but its currently proprietary software
[09:15] <mhz> ogra_ibook: and why is that Ubuntu people promote and prefer such propietary software to develop Freedom?
[09:16] <ogra_ibook> because it offers functionallity nothing else offers
[09:16] <ogra_ibook> its built around our needs ...
[09:17] <Robot101> because the power of launchpad is that it's one place to track everything
[09:17] <mhz> Track and Tutos do such thing, probably.
[09:17] <ogra_ibook> mhz, dont worry it will become GPL eventually...
[09:17] <mhz> that 'eventually' is my concern
[09:18] <Robot101> mhz: launchpad has more resource to track the development of essentially all free software
[09:18] <mhz> everytime I speak about ubuntu I make emphasis on the 'freedom' part
[09:18] <Robot101> mhz: if it worries you, don't use it until it's free. until then, it might help other people to track stuff...
[09:21] <mhz> Robot101: sure. It is just that I was blind because I took for granted that a development of the high category as ubuntu, and that also promotes freedom of access to knowledge, it was obviously using free software.
[09:21] <ogra_ibook> mhz, ubuntu will be built using 100% launchpad in the future ... launchpad will give you easy features to build a 100% wmaker based edubuntu as youre asking for all the time ;) 
[09:28] <Robot101> will a dapper kernel work on breezy? I need some new DVB USB drivers
[09:31] <ogra_ibook> the kernel *might* work ... but i'm not sure if you also have to pull in new udev 
[09:45] <Robot101> is there a handy way to make machines e-mail you when new updates become applicable?
[09:55] <mjg59> Robot101: There's a cronjob on the SRCF that does it
[09:59] <Robot101> mjg59: dapper kernel + breezy = win?
[09:59] <mjg59> Robot101: Pretty much
[10:00] <mjg59> Robot101: Oh, and I still need to actually /test/ it, but I may have a (mostly) free driver for the Thinkpad modems
[10:00] <Robot101> cool
[10:00] <hunger_> mjg59: Cool! Where can I get it?
[10:00] <mjg59> hunger_: Hang on :)
[10:01] <mjg59> hunger_: Need to check it works, then I need to hack it so it builds sensibly, then I need to figure out if it works on other chipsets
[10:01] <mjg59> hunger_: What's the PCI ID of your device at 00:1f.6 ?
[10:01] <Robot101> 0000:00:1f.6 0703: 8086:24c6 (rev 01)
[10:01] <mjg59> Robot101: I know what yours is :p
[10:01] <Robot101> :P
[10:01] <hunger_> mjg59: Dunno... let me check the wiki...
[10:02] <Robot101> argh, nieces to bed = crying nearby... upstairs was quiet until now
[10:03] <hunger_> mjg59: lspci says:  0000:00:1e.3 Modem: Intel Corp. 82801FB/FBM/FR/FW/FRW (ICH6 Family) AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 03)
[10:03] <Robot101> hunger_: lspci -n?
[10:03] <hunger_> Robot101: Dunno... no OS on my laptop at the moment...
[10:03] <hunger_> Robot101: LiveCD does not boot on it, so I couldn't fix it yet.
[10:04] <mjg59> hunger_: Ok, not the same as mine, then
[10:04] <mjg59> I'll need to do a couple of quick tests first
[10:08] <mjg59> Gah
[10:08] <hunger> Damn connection...
[10:08] <mjg59> Why does minicom not work?
[10:08] <ogra_ibook> yes, t-online has issues today
[10:08] <hunger> ogra_ibook: I am at 1und1... that has issues every day:-(
[10:09] <ogra_ibook> oh
[10:09] <ogra_ibook> luckily i cant get 1+1 over here 
[10:09] <hunger> ogra_ibook: I guess I cause about 4 times thwe traffic due to having to restart downloads then I would do if my connection would stay up for longer then max. 2h.
[10:10] <mjg59> Hmm. It seems keen on "No Dialtone" even when connected to a phoneline
[10:10] <ogra_ibook> thats odd
[10:10] <hunger> mjg59: That is what I get with slmodem on my modem as well:-(
[10:11] <mjg59> hunger: If you don't have a smartlink, that's what you'd expect
[10:11] <hunger> mjg59: Yes... but slmodem used to work with my old laptop (which claimes to be AC97 as well), so I thought it might be worth a try.
[10:12] <mjg59> hunger: Rather, it'll work with anything that properly complies to the MC97 spec, which Conexants don't
[10:14] <hunger> mjg59: "The good thing about standards is that there are so many to misinterpret when convinient.".
[10:14] <mjg59> hunger: Oh, I think this one was deliberate
[10:15] <hunger> mjg59: Misinterpretions often are:-(
[10:15] <ogra_ibook> hmm, g-p-m really needs to look at the time ...
[10:15] <Robot101> The following packages will be REMOVED:
[10:15] <Robot101>   busybox-cvs-initramfs hotplug
[10:15] <Robot101> The following NEW packages will be installed:
[10:15] <Robot101>   busybox-initramfs libsysfs2 linux-image-2.6.15-9-686 pcmciautils
[10:15] <Robot101> The following packages will be upgraded:
[10:15] <Robot101>   grepmap initramfs-tools libselinux1 linux-image-686 module-init-tools
[10:15] <Robot101>   ubuntu-minimal udev
[10:15] <Robot101> what could possibly go wrong? :)
[10:15] <ogra_ibook> my battery still has 1.5h to go but the icon is deep red
[10:16] <ogra_ibook> Robot101, try to omit udev
[10:16] <ogra_ibook> Robot101, the new udev conflicts with hotplug, we dont use it anymore
[10:17] <Robot101> it pulled in udev itself
[10:17] <ogra_ibook> ouch
[10:17] <ogra_ibook> not sure if it will work with breezy then
[10:18] <Robot101> why? that's getting a new udev for me
[10:18] <Robot101> and a new mkinitramfs
[10:18] <Robot101> looks fine to me
[10:18] <ogra_ibook> all the old hotplug stff in the apps will rely on hotplug being there ...
[10:19] <Robot101> what hotplug stuff in the apps?
[10:19] <ogra_ibook> dunno, i transitioned kino which has issue with the hotplug scripts for example
[10:19] <Robot101> robot101@thubuntu:/etc/hotplug$ dpkg -S /etc/hotplug
[10:19] <Robot101> libsane, hotplug, libgphoto2-2, alsa-base, linux-sound-base: /etc/hotplug
[10:19] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: If they do, then dependencies aren't tight enough
[10:19] <Robot101> those things?
[10:20] <ogra_ibook> it expects certain hotplug scripts to be there for jogdial stuff
[10:20] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: Can you file a bug, then?
[10:20] <ogra_ibook> dunno which other apps might have issues, but i suspect there are more
[10:20] <mjg59> If the system is in a consistent state, then things should work
[10:20] <mjg59> If they don't, it's a failure in our packaging
[10:20] <ogra_ibook> mjg59, since i care for kino, i'll just fix it with the next upload ;)
[10:21] <Robot101> ogra_ibook: fix it with correct dependencies too though :)
[10:21] <ogra_ibook> mjg59, if apps put stuff in /etc/hotplug.d they wont know its gone in breezy
[10:21] <Robot101> ogra_ibook: yes, so they should depend on hotplug
[10:21] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: Then udev needs to conflict with those packages
[10:21] <Robot101> or that :)
[10:22] <mjg59> Though yes, the correct behaviour was for them to depend on hotplug
[10:22] <mjg59> (There are exceptions for packages that are essential, which makes life more awkward)
[10:22] <Robot101> hmm, bringing dapper near my sources list has an interesting effect on my half-baked dbus situation
[10:23] <ogra_ibook> what means "near my sources.list" ?
[10:23] <ogra_ibook> ah
[10:23] <ogra_ibook> :)
[10:23] <Robot101> I rolled my own dbus 0.60 packages
[10:24] <mjg59> Robot101: I have a broken hal-device-manager now. I blame you.
[10:24] <Robot101> mjg59: fix it to make async method calls from signal callbacks
[10:25] <ogra_ibook> mjg59, blame launchpad ;)
[10:25] <ogra_ibook> its missing some lpi stuff
[10:25] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: No, dbus is broken...
[10:26] <ogra_ibook> inbreezy ? 
[10:26] <Robot101> no, J5 added a deadlock to the python bindings
[10:26] <ogra_ibook> works fine for g-p-m and other stuff in dapper
[10:27] <mjg59> ogra_ibook: They're not using the python bindings
[10:28] <ogra_ibook> ah,k i get only errors about lpi if i start it from commandline
[10:28] <Robot101> mjg59: you have to admit, making blocking method calls on dbus before showing any UI is broken behaviour anyway
[10:29] <mjg59> This driver is blatantly not working
[10:29] <mjg59> Either that or this cable is gash
[10:44] <hub> mhz_thinking: Mark said that LP would be released under GPL when it is releasable
[10:44] <hub> mhz_thinking: that is what he told people to UBZ
[10:44] <hub> mjg59: where is a bluetooth controller? Can't find at neither on USB nor on PCI
[10:44] <hub> mjg59: nor the modem
[10:45] <mjg59> hub: Generally USB
[10:45] <mjg59> The modem will be hanging off the southbridge
[10:45] <hub> how will I find it?
[10:48] <mjg59> Which? The modem or the bluetooth?
[10:49] <hub> modme
[10:49] <mjg59> You don't, as such
[10:49] <hub> ah
[10:49] <mjg59> It's an MC97 codec
[10:49] <hub> on the ISA?
[10:49] <mjg59> No
[10:49] <mjg59> On the AC97 bus
[10:49] <mjg59> Easiest way to find out what is to grab ScanModem (google for it)
[10:50] <hub> ok
[10:50] <hub> btw, I don't even have a RJ-11 cable
[10:50] <hub> cheap
[10:50] <mjg59> Ha
[10:50] <mjg59> That's pretty poor
[10:50] <hub> really
[10:51] <hub> mjg59: would the modem work with free driver?
[10:52] <mjg59> hub: There are no free drivers
[10:52] <mjg59> Closest you have is an open kernel part and closed userspace part
[10:52] <hub> grrr
[10:52] <mjg59> Run scanmodem, and see what chipset it claims you have
[10:52] <hub> nevermind
[10:53] <hub> mjg59: about to do
[11:01] <hub> mjg59: it claims that it has a pcmcia modem
[11:01] <hub> LtModem agere/lucent
[11:07] <mjg59> pcmcia?
[11:07] <mjg59> Seriously?
[11:07] <mjg59> Not PCI?
[11:08] <Amaranth> doesn't the linuxant driver has lots of GPL violations?
[11:10] <mjg59> Amaranth: Yes
[11:10] <Amaranth> have the authors of the stolen bits of code been notified?
[11:13] <mjg59> Yes