[12:02] <nomed> Sepheebear, yes i've ape-get source ubuntu-artwork ...
[12:02] <nomed> but i see it has been made using some tools
[12:02] <nomed> there are Makefile.am|in and so on
[12:04] <Sepheebear> what kind of artwork are you making? desktops? icon? themes?
[12:05] <nomed> ubuntu-artwork ...
[12:05] <nomed> myproj-artwork ...
[12:06] <nomed> gdm icons wallpaper usplash and all this
[12:06] <Sepheebear> ok, well i suppose the usplash stuff is where all that makefile.{am,in} stuff comes in
[12:07] <nomed> Sepheebear, there are even in icons and all art subdirs
[12:07] <Sepheebear> hmm lemme take a look
[12:11] <Sepheebear> well i'd start by replacing art/*/ with my artwork
[12:11] <Sepheebear> the makefiles arent that complex
[12:12] <nomed> Sepheebear, so reverse engineering job :)
[12:12] <nomed> it would be nice to know how to make it from scratch .. but if there are no other way i'll use that dir tree as sample ..
[12:13] <Sepheebear> i think that'd be the best template to use
[12:14] <nomed> yep .. let's do that ...
[12:14] <nomed> thanks for your availability
[12:14] <Sepheebear> the makefiles dont seem to specify any other filenames other than those directories
[12:16] <Sepheebear> you'd have to edit art/*/Makefile.am to point to your stuff
[12:17] <nomed> Sepheebear, i'll play with diff and *ubuntu-artwork to see what i need to change ...
[12:18] <Sepheebear> it looks pretty straightforward
[12:23] <Sepheebear> another alternative would be to look at other theme related packages and you could learn some install techniques from them
[12:26] <nomed> Sepheebear, yep *ubuntu-artwork ..
[12:27] <nomed> xubuntu has just usplash ...
[12:30] <Sepheebear> there's xubuntu-artwork and xubuntu-artwork-usplash
[12:31] <nomed> umm
[12:32] <nomed> Sepheebear, it seems the same pkge
[12:32] <Sepheebear> oh yes i see that now
[12:33] <raphink> nomed: if you want to learn to package from scratch, then you should read the New Debian Maintainer's Guide
[12:34] <nomed> raphink, i can generate debs .. the problem is how to generate the *ubuntu-artwork pkge ...
[12:34] <raphink> how do you generate debs nomed ?
[12:35] <nomed> raphink, well it depends by the pkge ..
[12:35] <raphink> if you mean using checkinstall or magic generate scripts, this is (hopefully) not the way we do it
[12:35] <nomed> for the moment waht i need to build were mainly pkges of bash scripts or python scripts
[12:35] <nomed> so the rules file is simple
[12:36] <nomed> raphink, no checkinstall
[12:36] <nomed> or other stuff like that
[12:36] <raphink> ok
[12:37] <raphink> if you know how to package binaries, packaging an artwork package is not harder, maybe even eaiser
[12:37] <raphink> easier
[12:37] <nomed> raphink, yes ..
[12:37] <nomed> what i can't figure out is how Makefile.in | am has been generated ..
[12:38] <raphink> most of the stuff can be installed using either dh_install yourstuff, or debian/install and debian/dirs files
[12:38] <nomed> it seems they've used some tool
[12:38] <raphink> what does the Makefile.in file install?
[12:38] <nomed> raphink, yep .. that's the last step :)
[12:38] <raphink> and why do you think you would need one?
[12:38] <nomed> raphink, i have the ubuntu-artwork source
[12:38] <raphink> debian/rules is a makefile, too
[12:38] <nomed> and i see its dir tree
[12:39] <raphink> so you don't need to generate other makefiles yourself
[12:39] <raphink> nomed: the fact that ubuntu-artwork contains a Makefile.in doesn't mean _all_ artwork packages need one ;)
[12:39] <raphink> if you don't need one, then don't both with one
[12:39] <nomed> raphink, i would make it in the same way ..
[12:39] <raphink> why?
[12:40] <nomed> if i'll can then that's cool .. if not i'll use a Makefile and a rules file
[12:40] <raphink> what I don't understand is
[12:40] <nomed> raphink, because that pkge has been made in that way ...
[12:40] <raphink> why you want to have the same layout as the existing ubuntu-artwork pkg
[12:40] <raphink> what's the use of that?
[12:41] <nomed> raphink, i think it the best sample i can use for such pkge
[12:41] <nomed> *'s*
[12:41] <raphink> you're creating your own package... you can get inspiration in other ones, but you don't have to do it the way it was done by other guys
[12:41] <raphink> nomed: it might be a very good sample for sure... unless they didn't exactly have the same requirements as you
[12:42] <nomed> raphink, i think i should be able to choose ..
[12:42] <raphink> but anyway, it's up to you
[12:42] <nomed> not to don't do that in that way just because i don't understand
[12:42] <raphink> I just say you might not bother with files you might not need ;)
[12:42] <raphink> my two pence ;)
[12:48] <Sepheebear> i still think the ubuntu-artwork is the best template for any artwork package
[12:48] <Sepheebear> why reinvent the wheel?
[12:49] <Sepheebear> keep the structure and add/subtract your own stuff, by the end it'll be distinguishable as your work
[01:00] <raphink> \sh_away: are you there,
[01:00] <raphink> ?
[01:01] <raphink> Riddell-awa: you there,
[01:01] <raphink> hi Hobbsee :)
[01:01] <Hobbsee> hi raphink :)
[01:02] <raphink> merry xmas :)
[01:02] <Hobbsee> you too :)
[01:02] <Hobbsee> it's the 26th here
[01:02] <raphink> hehe
[01:02] <raphink> same here ;)
[01:02] <raphink> but still
[01:03] <raphink> wanna package Hobbsee ? :)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> yeah
[01:03] <raphink> what do you want to package ?
[01:03] <raphink> :)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> actually, i was working on ksudoku earlier :)
[01:03] <Hobbsee> setting up a pbuilder now, to find out the dependancies...
[01:03] <raphink> what is that?
[01:04] <raphink> hmmm
[01:04] <Hobbsee> ksudoku?  it's a game...
[01:04] <raphink> 77%, board game
[01:04] <raphink> nice :)
[01:04] <Hobbsee> very
[01:04] <raphink> did you package it already,
[01:04] <Hobbsee> i'm just uploading to random places at the moment, which is a pain
[01:04] <raphink> ?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> no, there was one on crzzi or something, and and old debian one, which i updated
[01:05] <raphink> hmm
[01:05] <raphink> official debian ?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> think so
[01:05] <raphink> did you check on packages.debian.org ?
[01:05] <Hobbsee> i took the crzzi one which was built for breezy (supposedly) though
[01:06] <raphink> well
[01:06] <raphink> the first thing should be to check if there's a version in Debian sid
[01:06] <raphink> look on packages.debian.org for that
[01:06] <raphink> if there is, then you get to synchronize it with ubuntu
[01:06] <raphink> if there is not, then you get to package it
[01:07] <raphink> either using a non official package and make it nice enough, or from scratch ;)
[01:07] <Hobbsee> true
[01:07] <Hobbsee> there's one on packages.debian.org
[01:07] <raphink> non official packages are often a bit trashy and I often choose to do it all from scratch, but it's up to you ;)
[01:07] <raphink> last version?
[01:08] <Hobbsee> yeah
[01:08] <raphink> then you should merge it
[01:08] <Hobbsee> how do i do that?
[01:08] <raphink> and you don't need REVU for that
[01:08] <raphink> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MOTU/HowToMerge
[01:08] <Hobbsee> k
[01:08] <raphink> couldn't help you much as I han't done that part yet ;)
[01:09] <raphink> && good luck :)
[01:10] <Hobbsee> hmmm
[01:12] <Hobbsee> er....
[01:12] <Hobbsee> this is clearly why i should check first...
[01:24] <womble> Is there a single document which describes the entireity of the MOTU upload process, including the use of REVU and whatnot?  I can't find anything actually useful in the wiki or revu.t.d.
[01:35] <raphink> womble: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
[01:39] <womble> raphink: Read it.  Several times.  Doesn't say anything useful on the topics of "what does REVU do for me?", "why do I need REVU?", "how does REVU fit into the overall process of MOTU work?", and so on.  I thought it was mentors.d.n for Ubuntu, but I see uploads in there from dholbach.  There's also a lack of "overview" of the whole process, from end-to-end, so I can't see how the whole of the MOTU world actually operates.
[01:39] <raphink> it's a bit different an approach from mentors
[01:39] <StevenK> womble: Heh. I've never actually used REVU.
[01:40] <StevenK> womble: Being a DD, people trust that you can actually package. :-)
[01:40] <raphink> seems you know the debian way womble right?
[01:40] <desrt> womble; cheer up, emo kid
[01:40] <desrt> womble; merry christmas
[01:41] <raphink> StevenK: i'm sure even DDs can learn from using REVU ;)
[01:41] <raphink> and improve their packaging skills ;)
[01:41] <womble> raphink: Yes, I do.
[01:41] <womble> And I'd like to know the Ubuntu way.
[01:41] <womble> But there's a dearth of useful docs to help me.
[01:41] <tseng> womble: woo!
[01:41] <raphink> womble: well how do you get a package in Debian when you're not a DD ?
[01:42] <tseng> raphink: a sponsor
[01:42] <tseng> raphink: (same as here)
[01:42] <womble> raphink: http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html#sponsored_packages
[01:42] <raphink> yep exactly ;)
[01:42] <tseng> but w/o a pretty interface
[01:42] <raphink> tseng: I know the answer ;)
[01:42] <raphink> well without more things imo tseng
[01:42] <raphink> i've been to Debian dev confs
[01:43] <raphink> and seen how people who are not DDs just stick to DDs to try getting their packages sponsored
[01:43] <raphink> the fact is that REVU allows to get a packaged sponsored faster and more securely
[01:43] <tseng> eh its what slomo and I do
[01:43] <raphink> because it's being checked by several people
[01:43] <raphink> tseng: :)
[01:44] <tseng> there arent many dd's on the debian mono team
[01:44] <womble> raphink: So it's just sponsors.d.n then?
[01:44] <raphink> womble: now it doesn't prevent MOTUs from putting packages on REVU aswell, and get them checked, even though they could just upload them right away
[01:44] <raphink> I wouldn't exactly say so womble
[01:45] <tseng> womble: its that and more
[01:45] <womble> So what *would* you say, raphink?
[01:45] <tseng> youll notice it runs lintian, linda
[01:45] <tseng> and has reviewers comments built in
[01:45] <raphink> REVU allows to browse the package
[01:45] <tseng> 3 positive comments flags for upload
[01:45] <raphink> get the files directly
[01:45] <raphink> post comments
[01:46] <tseng> one problem we were solving was, not everyone had webspace to host sources
[01:46] <raphink> yep
[01:46] <tseng> another was keeping a history of reviews
[01:46] <raphink> :)
[01:46] <slomo> tseng: 2 positives ;)
[01:46] <raphink> this is also very useful for packagers btw
[01:46] <raphink> when I go to another comp and wanna work on the latest version of a package of mine, I just get it from REVU ;)
[01:46] <womble> So it's sponsors.d.n with comments?
[01:46] <raphink> hi slomo
[01:46] <raphink> :)
[01:46] <raphink> merry xmas
[01:47] <tseng> its not just comments, they have intelligence
[01:47] <tseng> (have you taken a look?)
[01:47] <tseng> you can either advocate a package or not with a comment
[01:47] <tseng> if you dont, it needs more work, another upload
[01:47] <tseng> if 3 advocate, its uploaded
[01:47] <slomo> womble: not exactly... even MOTUs need to upload NEW packages there for review
[01:47] <raphink> tseng: that womble cannot see ;)
[01:48] <womble> tseng: Who uploads it?
[01:48] <tseng> an existing MOTU
[01:48] <womble> slomo: Why do MOTUs *need* to upload there?  What stops them from uploading directly?
[01:48] <tseng> and it gives us a nice trail to see a potential MOTUs work
[01:48] <womble> tseng: Is an existing MOTU required to upload the package once it has gotten three yes votes?
[01:48] <raphink> womble: this is quality assurance :)
[01:48] <tseng> womble: yes.
[01:49] <tseng> womble: but my next point is someone who has a few good packages on revu is a shoe in for maintainership
[01:49] <womble> tseng: What sanctions are in place for all MOTUs if none of them upload the approved package?
[01:49] <raphink> womble: not everybody votes though, only MOTUs
[01:49] <womble> raphink: What is quality assurance?
[01:49] <tseng> womble: no sanctions.. this is a volunteer project
[01:49] <raphink> slomo: did you have some time to review my two updates?
[01:49] <tseng> womble: we work on good faith like everyone else
[01:49] <slomo> womble: in theory nothing... we could upload everything directly... but nobody does in general
[01:49] <raphink> :)
[01:50] <womble> tseng: So how is an existing MOTU *required* to upload the package?  What makes them do it?
[01:50] <tseng> someone asks nicely
[01:50] <raphink> hehe :)
[01:50] <tseng> having a requirement on a volunteer developer would be pretty shitty imo
[01:50] <womble> So your answer to my question "is a MOTU required to upload the package" is actually 'no'?
[01:50] <raphink> womble: by quality assurance, I mean that two MOTUs checking and approving a package at a given time is better than only one sponsoring it
[01:50] <tseng> i read that another way
[01:51] <slomo> womble: we want our packages as good as possible and one overlooks mistakes which are obvious for others
[01:51] <tseng> i read "do you have to be a motu to upload a source"
[01:51] <tseng> not "is a motu required by some rule to upload a package with 3 votes for fear of sanctions"
[01:51] <tseng> sorry.
[01:51] <raphink> hehe
[01:51] <slomo> womble: we're not _required_ to upload to revu but it's common practice to improve package quality
[01:51] <womble> tseng: Of course a non-MOTU can't upload a package to Universe -- that's absurd.
[01:51] <tseng> back to the hosting issue
[01:52] <tseng> http://sponsors.debian.net/viewpkg.php?id=29
[01:52] <tseng> notice that the posted sources arent existing
[01:52] <tseng> this is the first package i went to, no idea if thats a general problem
[01:53] <slomo> raphink: not yet... i have them both still on my todo list, don't worry :) i was busy or out all the day
[01:53] <raphink> slomo: ok
[01:53] <slomo> hmm... i could to it now :) *me gets the packages*
[01:53] <raphink> womble: the best way to get what's special about REVU is to see it in action imo
[01:54] <tseng> ok, time for christmas dinner
[01:54] <raphink> womble: http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1285 shows how REVU allows several reviewers to interact to have a package be improved
[01:54] <tseng> cheers everyone
[01:54] <tseng> womble: nice to have you.
[01:54] <raphink> cheers tseng
[01:54] <raphink> slomo: ty
[01:55] <slomo> raphink: damn... which ones were it? knmap and kalcul?
[01:55] <raphink> knmap and konq-encrypt-menu
[01:56] <raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1296 and http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1297
[01:56] <slomo> ok... i'll do kalcul too now :P
[01:56] <womble> raphink: It looks like the exact same process we go through in Debian with mentors.d.n and the d-mentors mailing list.
[01:56] <womble> Except that you can add 'Advocating' marks to this one (which is kinda cool)
[01:57] <raphink> slomo: kalcul doesn't build with the recent stuff with libX$dunrememberwhat
[01:57] <womble> So can people look at the new REVU page on the wiki and see if it accurately reflects reality?
[01:57] <slomo> womble: and it needs the eyes of more than one to get a package uploaded... which improves quality
[01:57] <raphink> womble: what you see now is REVU v1
[01:57] <slomo> raphink: ah right...
[01:57] <raphink> there's REVU v2 to be released soon enough :)
[01:57] <womble> slomo: I don't see how that follows, if someone can get a package uploaded without needing to go through revu
[02:00] <slomo> womble: well, we trust each other... ;) ok, that's a problem when you have > 1000 DD with upload rights but it works fine currently... and if someone uploads directly it would be noticed normally
[02:00] <womble> slomo: So every single upload should go via REVU?
[02:00] <slomo> womble: no... only NEW packages
[02:01] <raphink> womble: REVU is only for NEW packages in Universe
[02:01] <slomo> and when it fails later with the current way we will change our processes
[02:01] <womble> slomo: For NEW in the dak sense, yes?
[02:01] <slomo> raphink: (well, and for updates from people without upload rights)
[02:01] <slomo> womble: yes
[02:02] <womble> Major changes in packaging can do just as much (if not more) harm than initial packaging stuffups, though.
[02:03] <slomo> womble: yes... that's a whole currently... but it worked until now as we normally ask someone else to review our changes when we're in doubt or the changes are major
[02:03] <womble> stevenk said earlier that he's never gone through REVU for his uploads.  How does that mesh with what you're saying now?
[02:06] <slomo> maybe he found two people without revu... that's also possible... as i said before, we trust each other to handle uploads in a sane way and we're all in contact ;)
[02:06] <slomo> it's probably much more informal than in debian
[02:06] <womble> So should I upload my changes to wiki.u.c/REVU to REVU for comment?
[02:07] <womble> slomo: Debian is the ultimate in informality for sponsored uploads.  I like the idea of a helper tool like REVU.
[02:11] <slomo> when you have any changes either upload your changed package to revu or give someone here the debdiff for the changes... the latter could be faster
[02:12] <lifeless> womble: I can't imagine you needing review
[02:13] <slomo> but revu is definitely the entry point for new people... only for motu it _could_ be voluntary but we agreed that it's still better to upload NEW packages to revu for review and discuss greater changes with others... it's always better to let someone else look at your problems from a different point of view
[02:13] <womble> lifeless: I'm not expecting to make any major stuffups either.  I'm not looking for REVU, as such, I just want to understand how the pieces fit.  There seems to be a lamentable lack of documentation thus far.  I'm out to fix that where I can, whilst enhancing my understanding of it all.
[02:14] <lifeless> womble: sweet
[02:14] <raphink> :)
[02:15] <womble> I asked for comments on my changes to wiki.u.c/REVU to see if my translation of the comments made here was accurate; that request was met with resounding silence, so I tried a bit of humour by asking if I'd get more comments by posting my changes to REVU...
[02:15] <raphink> hmm
[02:15] <raphink> what exactly did you modify womble ?
[02:16] <womble> raphink: The first real paragraph.  Possibly should have localised my changes a bit more, but I figured that people could read the diffs if they really wanted to find out.
[02:16] <raphink> let's see
[02:16] <womble> "[WWW]  revu is a web-based tool to allow people who have worked on packages a chance to "put their packages out there" for other people to look at and commend on in a structured manner. Packages can also have "votes" attached to them; a certain number of positive votes will bring the package to the attention of uploaders, who will then send the package into the Universe repository."
[02:16] <raphink> s/commend/comment/
[02:17] <raphink> I think it's a rather good description of how it works :)
[02:17] <raphink> 1) once you're approved in the keyring, you upload your packages to REVU
[02:17] <raphink> 2) your work gets reviewed and commented
[02:18] <raphink> 3) you uploaded updated versions till you get at least 2 advocacies from MOTUs
[02:18] <raphink> 4) your work is uploaded by a MOTU
[02:18] <raphink> :)
[02:18] <womble> raphink: The 'edit' button on the wiki is calling you, I think.
[02:18] <raphink> hehe ;)
[02:19] <raphink> ok right ;)
[02:19] <slomo> siretart: there's a bug in revu... when a package is NEW and gets uploaded to universe... and later a new version (i.e. updated) gets uploaded to revu it still shows up as NEW
[02:20] <lifeless> womble: it looks fine to me
[02:22] <Mez> hmm
[02:22] <Mez> does anyone know whats going on with FF in dapper ?
[02:22] <Mez> It's calling itself deer park
[02:22] <lifeless> yes
[02:22] <lifeless> thats the code name for the next release
[02:22] <Mez> I know
[02:23] <Mez> but FF 1.5 is released and uses the name "firefox"
[02:23] <raphink> womble: how do you like that ? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU
[02:23] <raphink> clearer ?
[02:23] <slomo> Mez: but we don't have ff 1.5 yet, only rc3
[02:25] <womble> raphink: Yep.  Much better.
[02:25] <raphink> :)
[02:26] <Mez> Slomo - yet it calls itself deer park in the title bar
[02:26] <Mez> for no reason
[02:26] <slomo> Mez: that had some reason... ask Diziet :) it was either for firefox release candidates or inofficial firefox builds...
[02:28] <slomo> womble: but i have to aggree with you... there's much documentation currently missing... revu-related and in general
[02:29] <womble> slomo: It's starting to feel like a regular thing... womble wants to do something; womble goes looking for documentation; womble finds no documentation; womble asks questions on IRC; womble writes documentation
[02:30] <raphink> huhu
[02:30] <slomo> hehe, at least you write the documentation :) i hate writing documentation and still have 2 wikipages on my todo list... :/
[02:31] <raphink> slomo: I'll archive konq-encrypt-menu
[02:31] <raphink> :)
[02:31] <womble> slomo: I hate repetition.  I'd rather write it first, then never have to explain it to anyone by hand ever again.  Worst case I have to cut-n-paste a URL.
[02:32] <womble> Consider how much time we've expended talking about this topic here today -- my time, your time, the half a dozen or so people who've contributed.  For a one-paragraph description.
[03:41] <elektranox> does sb. know howto change the system mail adress of a user?
[03:46] <womble> elektranox: /etc/aliases?
[03:46] <womble> Can you better describe the result you wish to achieve?
[03:49] <elektranox> If I make any command like "dh_make" a wrong mail adress is insert automatacily. So I want to say the system my right mail adress :)
[03:50] <minghua> elektranox: you need to set DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL correctly
[03:50] <Mez> o_O
[03:55] <elektranox> adding "export DEBFULLNAME = 'Sebastian Reichel' export DEBEMAIL = 'elektranox@gmail.com'" to ~/.bashrc doesn't work :/
[03:58] <womble> elektranox: Unless dh_make is "special", it doesn't read the environment, it gets the config parameters out of ~/.devscripts
[03:59] <womble> There's documentation that mentions environment vars, but AFAIK it's all wrong
[03:59] <womble> Also check out the new(ish) -m option for dch, for more long-term lack-of-name-mangling in changelogs
[04:00] <Mez> siretart: ping ?
[04:01] <elektranox> mh dh_make uses USERNAME@[-> /etc/mailname]  :S
[04:03] <womble> Try EMAIL="elektranox@gmail.com" dh_make
[04:03] <womble> and see if that helps
[04:05] <elektranox> that works :S
[04:05] <minghua> womble: I don't know about dh_make, but dch (debchangelog) reads DEBFULLNAME and DEBEMAIL from environment for sure
[04:06] <minghua> and dh_make should have an option to specify the maintainer's name and email
[04:07] <minghua> and can't check
[04:13] <Mez> dh_make should use DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME too
[04:15] <womble> minghua: Last time I tried, dch refused categorically to read from the environment.  So I got used to always using ~/.devscripts
[04:16] <womble> Now, of course, I've got packages which need different things in their changelog footers, so I'm reduced to using dch -m and crossing my fingers
[04:17] <Mez> womble - just use the DEBEMAIL and DEBFULLNAME envvars
[04:18] <minghua> womble: I see.  I must admit I'm quite new to packaging, so maybe dch changed behaviour.  It should work now though.
[04:27] <womble> Mez: Because that's a *lot* less typing that -m.  Right.
[04:27] <Mez> depends on what you wanna do
[04:29] <elektranox> then I've got a second question: "are the menu sections of ubuntu equal to the menu sections of debian?" (I'm talking about the debian/menu file)
[04:30] <Mez> elektranox, the debian menu is there if you install the menu package I beleive
[04:30] <elektranox> in debian there is "Games/Strategy" but in my ubuntu gnome menu there is only the section Games and no dirs in it
[04:31] <Sepheebear> the debian menu depends on menu-xdg
[04:31] <elektranox> and the ubuntu menu?
[04:34] <Sepheebear> with menu-xdg you get the "Debian" category with all the subdirs
[04:35] <Sepheebear> hmm i may be wrong on that
[04:35] <elektranox> Oo I want to edit the menu file in the debian dir, created by dh_make, so that it will appear in the Games Section and no Debian categroy
[04:36] <Sepheebear> elektranox: for an ubuntu package or a debian one?
[04:36] <elektranox> for a ubuntu package
[04:36] <elektranox> Debian would be "        section="Games/Strategy"\   "
[04:37] <Sepheebear> ubuntu doesnt make much use of menu files
[04:37] <Sepheebear> it uses .desktop files
[04:38] <Sepheebear> but the caveat is that you lose that Strategy subdir
[04:38] <crimsun> Categories=GNOME;Application;Game;
[04:38] <crimsun> that should appear in your .desktop
[04:38] <Sepheebear> unless you know how to munge applications.menu
[04:39] <Sepheebear> i havent seen nested menus in gnome since i used debian gnome 2.8
[04:40] <Sepheebear> pre-warty
[04:41] <Sepheebear> i was just thinking how cool tearoff menus would be for gnome
[04:42] <elektranox> mh where does the *.desktop files in the ubuntu system?
[04:42] <Sepheebear> /usr/share/applications/
[08:25] <womble> StevenK: But that's because you're an emacs freak.
[08:25] <Mez> lol
[08:25] <womble> Real Men use an OS *without* a built-in psychiatrist.
[08:27] <StevenK> Actually, I'd like to augment debian-changelog-mode.
[08:27] <StevenK> If there is an ubuntu in the current version, it should use my @u.c address, not my @d.o address.
[08:28] <womble> Hmm, that's an interesting twist.
[08:28] <StevenK> I should be able to do it, it just involves learning elisp.
[08:28] <womble> Or just writing a shell wrapper for dch...
[08:28] <womble> dpkg-parsechangelog == Love
[08:29] <Mez> StevenK, /query :D
[08:30] <sivang> morning all
[09:27] <Yagisan> G'day all
[09:28] <Yagisan> sleeping or hungover from christmas ?
[09:36] <sivang> I wish, sleeping from working late :)
[09:37] <Yagisan> sivang, so what was so important you had to be working ?
[09:38] <sivang> Yagisan: ah well, I'm in .IL - even hanuka is a vacation only for the kids, adults still go to work :->
[09:41] <Yagisan> sivang: I see. Over here in .au I have a hard time finding *anything* open on a public holiday.
[10:52] <CGA> is the packager of Xorg for ubuntu here?
[10:56] <Yagisan> CGA: he'd be in -devel, but considering it's 9pm and a public holiday, he's not here
[10:56] <CGA> Yagisan, thanks you =)
[10:56] <CGA> *-s
[10:57] <CGA> Yagisan, what's his nick? i'm in -devel too
[10:58] <Yagisan> CGA: IIRC it is dstone, but as I said he's not here. I think he like most canonical staff are on holidays
[10:59] <Yagisan> CGA: why do you ask ?
[11:00] <CGA> Yagisan, thank you && i ask because i'm trying to compile E17 and all its libraires from CVS and i have an error compiling evas. It complains about Xorg not compiled with the XShm.h header , evas it's afundamental lib for E and ican't install because of that ; so i want to ask him to compile Xorg with that header too so ubutnu users can enjoy E17 from CVS =)
[11:00] <rob1> hi, does anyone know if xfwm4 was compiled with --enable-compositor in Ubuntu?
[11:06] <Yagisan> rob1: apt-get source and check /debian/rules
[11:06] <rob1> Yagisan, yeah ok
[11:07] <Yagisan> rob1: on boxing day ? you hope too much. I could heat the echos when I post in here!
[11:08] <Yagisan> s/heat/hear
[11:08] <Tonio_> hieveryone
[11:08] <rob1> hehe
[11:08] <StevenK> CGA: Do you have x11proto-xext-dev installed?
[11:08] <CGA> StevenK, going to check that out thanks
[11:08] <rob1> yeah, it was
[11:09] <rob1> now to work out why it isn't working for me :(
[11:09] <CGA> StevenK, nope i don't && does that give me the XShm.h ?
[11:09] <Yagisan> CGA: libxext6-dev
[11:10] <CGA> Yagisan, i'll search that too
[11:10] <CGA> Yagisan, there's not package with thqat name
[11:11] <Yagisan> CGA: TI typoed it. It should be: libxext-dev
[11:11] <sivang> CGA: what's E17 ?
[11:11] <Yagisan> enlightenment 17
[11:11] <Yagisan> IIRC
[11:11] <CGA> yes it is
[11:12] <Yagisan> CGA: Does that support East Asian characters now ? last time I tried it didn't
[11:13] <CGA> sivang, go visit enlightenment.sf.net and learn about :P
[11:13] <CGA> Yagisan, i really don't know but you can ask in #e
[11:13] <CGA> Yagisan, i use english or italian
[11:17] <CGA> Yagisan, how can i use pat or synaptic to search a package that provides me a certain feature or header for that matter?
[11:17] <CGA> *apt
[11:21] <Yagisan> CGA: Off the top of my head I can't think of it, but I know that you can search through the packages contents.
[11:21] <Yagisan> I'm sure I'll remember the command a bit later
[11:21] <CGA> Yagisan, ok thx for now =)
[11:23] <Hobbsee> CGA: apt-cache show packagename?
[11:24] <CGA> Hobbsee, trying that in a sec
[11:24] <sivang> CGA: wow :)
[11:24] <sivang> CGA: I didn't enlightment was more then a window manager we're not using anymore
[11:24] <CGA> sivang, eh eh =) look around get-e too
[11:25] <sivang> CGA: this is gnome?? http://enlightenment.sourceforge.net/Main/Home/images/_images/az-desktop.png
[11:26] <sivang> I see there are packages for Debian
[11:26] <sivang> CGA: have you tried them?
[11:26] <CGA> sivang, that should be E16 with evidence (a filemanager)
[11:26] <CGA> sivang, nope i'm on ubuntu and i used to use the packages for ubuntu no Debian yet
[11:27] <sivang> there are packages for that on Ubuntu? I'm out of date..
[11:27] <Yagisan> sivang: we have E 16 in breezy
[11:27] <sivang> Yagisan: universe, right?
[11:27] <Yagisan> sivang: yep
[11:27] <sivang> CGA: that's what linked from the page there : http://packages.debian.org/cgi-bin/search_packages.pl?searchon=names&version=all&exact=1&keywords=enlightenment
[11:28] <sivang> Yagisan: what's the pkg name
[11:28] <sivang> ?
[11:28] <CGA> sivang,  Yagisan i'm talking of E17 packages
[11:28] <CGA> E16 is in official packages BTW
[11:29] <Yagisan> CGA: I know, just point sivang to the already existing enlightenment packages
[11:29] <CGA> k
[11:29] <Yagisan> s/point/pointing
[11:29] <CGA> http://www.soulmachine.net/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
[11:30] <CGA> shaodi is the official Debian and Ubutnu packager for E17
[11:30] <CGA> is blog is shadoi.soulmachine.net
[11:30] <CGA> *his
[11:30] <CGA> the repos are at soulmachine.net , look at the howto for the addresses
[11:32] <Yagisan> CGA:  Perhaps he should collaborate with the MOTU's here, and the Debian Maintainer if he would like to see them in Debian and Ubuntu
[11:33] <CGA> Yagisan, well talk with him, i know he maintains those packjages for E17 but only for the E17 prospective. have a talk with him , he might be interested
[11:35] <Yagisan> CGA: I can't speak on behalf of the MOTU's as I am not a MOTU
[11:35] <CGA> Yagisan, ok
[11:36] <CGA> Yagisan, i'll tell him about it and ask what he thinks and if he is interested in collaborating with MOTU and Debian packagers
[11:40] <Yagisan> CGA: I'm here as I maintain packages I'd like to see in Ubuntu, they are quite friendly here.
[11:40] <CGA> Yagisan, no doubt on that =)
[11:41] <Mez> Yagisan - what sort of stuff are you looking to get into ubuntu ? (and is it already in debian?)
[11:42] <Yagisan> Mez: Most interesting package for me is here http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/doomsday.en.html
[11:43] <Yagisan> it's not in Debian, and I've been the maintainer for a long time now for both Debian and Ubuntu
[11:43] <Mez> Yagisan - so why not upload yourself ?
[11:43] <Yagisan> Mez: It already went to revu and was rejected until upstreams license problems are fixed
[11:43] <Mez> ag
[11:43] <Mez> ah ...
[11:43] <Mez> fair enough
[11:44] <Mez> you're a DD too ?
[11:44] <Yagisan> Mez: so until then, it lives in my repo
[11:44] <Yagisan> Mez: No, I don't really want to go through the hell they put their NM through
[11:45] <Mez> lol
[11:45] <Mez> fair enough
[11:45] <Yagisan> Mez: It is a discouragement to joining Debian
[11:45] <Mez> I may do at some point :d
[11:45] <Mez> just to get the cool email address (j/k)
[11:45] <Yagisan> Ubuntu was far more welcoming
[11:45] <Mez> yeah :D
[11:45] <Mez> you looking to become a MOTU then ? or are you already ?
[11:46] <Yagisan> and a lot less elitist attitude. I'm looking to be a MOTU in future, but for now I freelance
[11:47] <Yagisan> I'm not much of a programmer, but I have an interest in this
[11:48] <Mez> fair enough :D
[11:48] <Mez> well - here;sa good place to start
[11:49] <Yagisan> Mez: I help with Security audits of Ubuntu, and support on #edubuntu,
[11:49] <Mez> kool
[11:49] <Yagisan> Mez: eg http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/vuln-apr-27-2005-ubuntu-prelink.en.html
[11:52] <Yagisan> Mez: my launchpad thingy https://launchpad.net/people/yagisan
[11:55] <Mez> lol
[11:55] <Yagisan> Mez: why lol ?
[11:55] <Mez> dunno
[11:57] <MasterC> hi
[11:57] <MasterC> gaim is linked against libdbus-1-1
[11:57] <MasterC> this should be fixed :)
[11:58] <MasterC> gaim: error while loading shared libraries: libdbus-glib-1.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[11:58] <MasterC> in dapper
[12:14] <CGA> StevenK, Yagisan : i've installed those two libs you suggested me but i had no luck , i get the same error in compiling evas. :// thx anyway
[12:56] <elektranox> is there any command, creating dirs recursive?
[12:57] <raphink> -p
[12:57] <raphink> mkdir -p
[12:57] <elektranox> ok thx
[12:58] <CGA> StevenK, Yagisan :  i found XShm.h -- i was wrong
[12:58] <slomo_> MasterC: my gaim isn't linked against dbus at all ;)
[01:01] <raphink> hi slomo_ :)
[01:01] <slomo_> hi raphink
[01:01] <slomo_> want me to review something again? ;P
[01:02] <raphink> haha no
[01:02] <raphink> I'm working on having kalcul work
[01:02] <slomo_> fine... when you need a rebuild of something tell me :)
[01:03] <raphink> :)
[01:03] <raphink> ty
[01:04] <StevenK> Can a MOTU request a sync of pngwriter? It builds, installs and works in a dapper chroot.
[01:06] <slomo_> StevenK: in theory yes... but everybody is on holidays right now... write it down and tell someone again next year ;)
[01:07] <StevenK> Hey, next year is next week. :-)
[01:07] <raphink> grr
[01:07] <raphink> slomo_: http://ubuntu.pastebin.com/479112
[01:08] <slomo_> -lkio -lkdeeduwidgets
[01:08] <slomo_> one of this two
[01:08] <raphink> what is that?
[01:08] <StevenK> Missing libxft-dev?
[01:08] <slomo_> no
[01:08] <raphink> StevenK: libxft-dev doesn't ship libxft.la anymore
[01:08] <slomo_> the .la file was removed some days ago from the libxft-dev package
[01:09] <raphink> since the 21st of dec
[01:09] <StevenK> Whee
[01:09] <raphink> and i'm trying to find out how to fix this
[01:09] <slomo_> raphink: libkio and libkdeeduwidgets... no idea, you're the kde guy :) one of them still references the libXft.la file... find out which one ;)
[01:09] <raphink> slomo_: does that mean other apps might not build like this ?
[01:09] <slomo_> yes
[01:09] <slomo_> s/might/will/
[01:09] <raphink> ok
[01:10] <raphink> so we have to track down all occurrences of libxft.la in libs
[01:10] <raphink> ;)
[01:10] <raphink> I'd go for libkdeeduwidgets since I suppose it's less checked
[01:10] <slomo_> yes
[01:10] <raphink> so I'll check it
[01:11] <raphink> actually
[01:11] <elektranox> A music messaging session has been requested. Please click the MM icon to accept.
[01:11] <raphink> I think libkdeeduwidgets is libeduwidgetclock0
[01:11] <raphink> looooool
[01:11] <slomo_> hmm
[01:16] <raphink> slomo_: bingo
[01:16] <raphink>  $ grep libXft /usr/lib/*
[01:16] <slomo_> StevenK: hmm, are you a DD? and do you have some time right now to sponsor something for me? ;)
[01:16] <raphink>  /usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.la:dependency_libs=' -L/usr/share/qt3/lib -L/usr/lib -L/usr/X11R6/lib /usr/lib/libkdecore.la /usr/lib/libDCOP.la -lresolv -lutil /usr/lib/libart_lgpl_2.la /usr/lib/libidn.la /usr/lib/libkdefx.la /usr/lib/libqt-mt.la -ljpeg -lXft -lfreetype -laudio -lXt /usr/lib/libjpeg.la -lXi -lXrandr -lXcursor -lXinerama /usr/lib/libXft.la /usr/lib/libfreetype.la -lfontconfig -ldl -lpng -lz -lXext -lX11 -lSM -lICE -
[01:17] <slomo_> ok, so this guy needs a rebuild... give me your changelog entry please :)
[01:17] <raphink> -lXft
[01:17] <raphink> slomo_: you mean the changelog of the lib ?
[01:17] <slomo_> it's kdeedu, right?
[01:18] <raphink> hmm
[01:18] <slomo_> no... your new changelog entry for the rebuild upload :)
[01:18] <raphink> it's libeduwidgetclock0
[01:18] <raphink> this is a lib I had in dapper a short time ago
[01:18] <raphink> hmmm
[01:18] <raphink> I'm not sure I get what you want :s
[01:18] <slomo_> dpkg -S /usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.la
[01:18] <slomo_> this would be the first thing i want ;)
[01:19] <raphink> ok
[01:19] <raphink>  $ dpkg -S /usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.la
[01:19] <raphink> libeduwidgetclock0-dev: /usr/lib/libkdeeduwidgets.la
[01:19] <raphink> ;)
[01:19] <raphink> just as I told you ;)
[01:19] <raphink> this lib is archived on REVU btw ;)
[01:19] <slomo_> ah nice... kdeedu was wrong :P
[01:20] <raphink> http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1001
[01:20] <raphink> yeah I know
[01:20] <slomo_> can you give me a new changelog entry then? "Rebuild to get rid of the libXft.la reference"
[01:20] <raphink> how do I do that?
[01:20] <raphink> :s
[01:20] <slomo_> how did you create your other changelog entries? :P
[01:20] <slomo_> dch -i
[01:20] <CGA> bye bye
[01:21] <CGA> and thx for help
[01:21] <raphink> hmm sure
[01:21] <raphink> but how do I get rid of the libXft.la reference?
[01:21] <slomo_> only a rebuild is needed
[01:21] <raphink> just by building it again?
[01:21] <slomo_> yes
[01:22] <raphink> oh ok :)
[01:22] <raphink> then sure
[01:23] <raphink> uploading again
[01:23] <slomo_> hm
[01:23] <slomo_> upload the diff somewhere please
[01:23] <slomo_> or just the new changelog entry
[01:23] <raphink> that's not what you wanted ?
[01:23] <slomo_> that's easier for me :)
[01:23] <raphink> ;)
[01:24] <raphink> hmm ok
[01:25] <raphink> slomo_: http://raphink.free.fr/debs/changelog
[01:25] <raphink> is that fine?
[01:25] <raphink> :s
[01:26] <rikai> hm, i still think that libortp should be versioned by it's own version, and not by the version of linphone... but thats just me...
[01:26] <slomo_> yes
[01:27] <raphink> :)
[01:29] <raphink> just to be sure slomo_ , this is what you mean by debdiff ? http://raphink.free.fr/debs/libeduwidgetclock0_0.2.debdiff
[01:29] <slomo_> yes
[01:29] <raphink> :D
[01:29] <jsgotangco> cheers :)
[01:30] <raphink> hi jsgotangco
[01:30] <jsgotangco> raphink, happy holidays m8 :)
[01:30] <rikai> out of curiosity, does anyone happen to kno why it's done that way?
[01:31] <raphink> you too jsgotangco :)
[01:31] <slomo_> raphink: uploaded :)
[01:31] <raphink> slomo_: does it goes through elmo too?
[01:31] <raphink> well it has be be built by buildd anyway
[01:32] <raphink> so I'll have to wait before building kalcul again ;)
[01:32] <slomo_> no... why should it go through elmo? it's just a normal upload without any changes except changelog :)
[01:32] <rikai> i suppose not then...
[01:32] <slomo_> kalcul should be buildable in 75 minutes ;)
[01:33] <slomo_> rikai: sorry, i've no idea what this lib is...
[01:34] <rikai> slomo_, it's quite alright. i'm just a bit frustrated over the other night. ;)
[01:34] <raphink> slomo_: cool :)
[01:35] <slomo_> hm, i wonder why nemerle doesn't build anymore...
[01:37] <Tonio_> hi all
[01:37] <slomo_> hi Tonio_
[01:37] <Tonio_> raphink: ust working on matedit
[01:37] <Tonio_> let's hope I find the solution this time :)
[01:38] <Tonio_> anyone knows elmo's email address ?
[01:38] <Tonio_> I have to contact him for an uploading bug on pwmanager
[01:38] <tseng> james.troup@c.com
[01:38] <Tonio_> tseng: thanks
[01:38] <Tonio_> c.com ?
[01:38] <tseng> ...where C is the company he works for
[01:38] <Tonio_> arf
[01:39] <Tonio_> doesn't he have an ubuntu address simply ?
[01:39] <tseng> sigh
[01:39] <tseng> canonical
[01:39] <Tonio_> ah okay ^^
[01:39] <Mithrandir> he has both, I'd guess
[01:40] <Tonio_> sorry, hard WE...
[01:41] <rikai> hm, whats the easiest way to figure out who maintains a particular package?
[01:41] <tseng> apt-cache show openbox | grep Maintainer
[01:42] <Mithrandir> me, me, me. :-P
[01:42] <Mithrandir> at least as soon as I get around to uploading it
[01:42] <tseng> :D
[01:43] <raphink> yeah
[01:43] <raphink> Accepted libeduwidgetclock0 0.2-0ubuntu2 (source)
[01:43] <raphink> :)
[01:44] <raphink> which means :
[01:44] <raphink> 1) kalcul will build
[01:44] <raphink> 2) I'm subscirbed to katie, thanks to elmo :)
[02:03] <Yagisan> re
[02:07] <Yagisan> Out of curiosity what arch do other motu's use here ?
[02:07] <slomo_> x86 and ppc ;)
[02:08] <Yagisan> slomo_ ! how's your break been ?
[02:08] <slomo_> boring currently ;)
[02:09] <rikai> tseng, thank you.
[02:18] <Yagisan> slomo_: Other then from myself, do you think there would be much interest in an ia32-libs-universe package ?
[02:19] <slomo_> no idea... better ask someone who uses amd64 :)
[02:20] <Yagisan> ok - hands up any amd64 people (other then me) that would like eg zsnes, or quake4, or wine to work on amd64
[02:23] <rikai> ehh, i know a friend of mine would.
[02:24] <zakame> evening all :)
[02:24] <rikai> that was directed at Yagisan.
[02:24] <slomo_> ok... bbl
[02:24] <slomo_> hi zakame :)
[02:24] <rikai> and, sicne i'm getting an amd64 processor soon, i suppose i would as well.
[02:24] <zakame> hi slomo_ :)
[02:24] <rikai> *since
[02:25] <Yagisan> ok. that means we will need some of you volunteers with amd64 systems to check out the ia32-libs-universe as soon as I send it to revu
[02:26] <Yagisan> I plan to send it the moment it reaches works-for-me status
[02:26] <Yagisan> brb - yet more dad stuff, btw G'day zakame
[02:27] <zakame> heya Yagisan :)
[02:37] <Yagisan> re
[02:39] <zakame> would it be safe to assume that elmo's not around?
[02:41] <siretart> hi folks
[02:41] <siretart> Yagisan: ia32-libs-universe? which libs are supposed to be in there?
[02:42] <zakame> hi siretart :)
[02:42] <siretart> huhu zakame :)
[02:43] <Yagisan> siretart: basically any lib that is in universe that I need for an i386 package that can't be ported to amd64 for a variety of reasons
[02:44] <Yagisan> siretart: initially, it is some sdl libs
[02:45] <siretart> yay! finally! :)
[02:46] <siretart> but I wonder, sdl is main!
[02:47] <Yagisan> siretart: not all of sdl :(
[02:48] <siretart> Yagisan: well, there seems to be not any sdl lib at all compiled for ia32 on ubuntu/amd64 yet. I'd welcome some!
[02:50] <Yagisan> siretart: I'm working on it, although in ia32-libs in main, it does miss many -dev packages for the i386 packages they install
[02:51] <Yagisan> siretart: I've been almost tempted to just completely replace mains ia32-libs with a more comprehensive version, instead of just doing a -universe augmentation
[02:55] <Yagisan> siretart: out of curiosity, do you have an amd64 box available for revu ?
[02:56] <Yagisan> slomo_: with an ia32-libs-universe package, we could build a mplayer on amd64 with support for w32codecs
[02:56] <siretart> Yagisan: I do have an amd64 machine at home. I'm typing through it right now
[02:56] <siretart> Yagisan: I'll happily test your package
[02:57] <Yagisan> siretart: thank you. after I get a successful test with both zsnes and wine, I'll contact you for testing.
[03:30] <Yagisan> woohoo first successful build of ia32-libs-universe. Now to test with deng, zsnes, and wine
[05:13] <sistpoty> hi folks
[05:15] <Yagisan> argh!!! ia32-libs-dev is broken
[05:15] <Yagisan> it doesn't have the include files
[05:27] <sistpoty> merge list updated: 66 -> 94 packages
[05:27] <sistpoty> unassigned
[05:34] <Yagisan> night all
[05:34] <sistpoty> gn8 Yagisan
[05:37] <sistpoty> cya
[06:01] <MasterC> gaim: error while loading shared libraries: libdbus-glib-1.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[06:01] <MasterC> is this my error?
[06:01] <MasterC> *my fault
[06:56] <thesaltydog> anyone is working on tpb here?
[06:57] <JohnnyMast> is that something for revu ?
[06:58] <siretart> thesaltydog: whats wrong with tpb?
[06:58] <thesaltydog> hi, siretart .. I'm working on it on my ThinkPad X31
[06:58] <thesaltydog> /dev/nvram is owned by root:root
[06:58] <thesaltydog> so tpb doesn't start as it is started in X11
[06:59] <thesaltydog> it should be root:nvram
[06:59] <siretart> thesaltydog: udev should take care about it. it shoud be 770 and root:nvram
[06:59] <thesaltydog> as user is in nvram group..
[06:59] <siretart> but not by default
[06:59] <thesaltydog> I have just upgraded from breezy, and this is the result.
[06:59] <siretart> do you use 2.6.15?
[07:00] <thesaltydog> I know that udev should take care... but it seems it doesn't...
[07:00] <siretart> do you use 2.6.15?
[07:00] <thesaltydog> yes
[07:01] <thesaltydog> 2.6.15-9-386
[07:01] <siretart> perhaps it need integration into the new udev then
[07:01] <thesaltydog> yep
[07:01] <siretart> if 2.6.15 would work on my laptop, I'd work on a fix
[07:01] <thesaltydog> I have found this file:
[07:02] <thesaltydog> /etc/devfs/conf.d/tpb
[07:02] <thesaltydog> but it seems not to be executed or parsed..
[07:02] <siretart> devfs makes me screem and run away
[07:02] <siretart> it is for devfs, which we don't use in ubuntu
[07:02] <thesaltydog> ah, you're right..
[07:03] <thesaltydog> but that file had the right permissions for /dev/nvarm
[07:03] <siretart> for devfs
[07:03] <siretart> we use udev
[07:03] <thesaltydog> it should be integrated in udev
[07:03] <siretart> in the past (breezy), udev created /dev/nvram with correct permissions
[07:03] <siretart>  without any further integration
[07:03] <thesaltydog> Yes, I remember.
[07:03] <thesaltydog> That's why my surprise today.
[07:04] <siretart> so either udev needs to be fixed, or tpb integrated into new udev
[07:04] <thesaltydog> I have filed a malone bug as a memo: https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/tpb/+bug/6044
[07:04] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6044: "tpb doesn't work after dapper upgrade" Fix req. for: tpb (Ubuntu), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6044
[07:04] <siretart> since I don't run the new udev, I cannot help you :(
[07:04] <thesaltydog> Ubugtu, yes, that's mine.
[07:05] <siretart> thesaltydog: Ubugtu is your bugbot here. he triggers on malone bugnr
[07:06] <siretart> s/your/our/
[07:06] <thesaltydog> :-)
[07:06] <thesaltydog> lol
[07:06] <siretart> you can just say your bug was malone #6044
[07:06] <thesaltydog> I was thinking at a nice and fast user!!
[07:06] <siretart> and now he is pissed ;)
[07:08] <thesaltydog> siretart, are you also aware about crazy bugs on firefox localizations?
[07:08] <thesaltydog> s/firefox/deer park
[07:11] <siretart> thesaltydog: I switched to galeon because firefox annoyed me too much
[07:11] <thesaltydog> ok..
[07:13] <ogra_ibook> i think for the fact that diziet built the new package completely from scratch and is far from being done, its in a very fine state
[07:21] <thesaltydog> ogra_ibook, are you referring to firefox?
[07:21] <ogra_ibook> yup
[07:22] <thesaltydog> the mozilla-firefox-locale-it package is a mess, and the deb is buggy.
[07:22] <ogra_ibook> diziet dropped 50k lines of patches ...
[07:23] <ogra_ibook> the locale and language handling for the whole system is completely redone ... given the fact that dapper is only 2 months old its in pretty good shape ... and i'd expect such breakage
[07:24] <thesaltydog> yes. I can easily understand. I was only wondering if it's a known problem.
[07:24] <ogra_ibook> what happens with the ff-locale-it package ?
[07:25] <thesaltydog> mom..
[07:25] <ogra_ibook> did you install locales and ran locale-gen manually to get your locales generated at all ?
[07:25] <ogra_ibook> note that there is a lot expected breakage going on in this area currently
[07:26] <ogra_ibook> i.e. see pittis mail about it to devel
[07:26] <thesaltydog> yes. If I apt-get mozilla-firefox-locale-it, the system claims to remove firefox..:-)
[07:26] <ogra_ibook> then this locale package isnt redone for 1.5 yet
[07:27] <thesaltydog> No hurry for that.
[07:28] <thesaltydog> s/every/ever
[07:28] <ogra_ibook> not yet
[07:28] <thesaltydog> :-9
[07:28] <ogra_ibook> i'm pretty sure she never will try *any* of this kind of tools to be honest :)
[07:29] <thesaltydog> ohh.. 6 months ago you told me that when bum will be as easy as for your mum, it will be ok for inclusion :-(
[07:31] <ogra_ibook> for someone 'like my mom' (if she would need to use such a tool...
[07:32] <ogra_ibook> my mom simply just doesnt start or stop services :)
[07:33] <thesaltydog> I was jocking, of course. I will never claim your nice mom to use bum!
[07:33] <thesaltydog> neither mine does.
[07:33] <ogra_ibook> i still fail to see whats wrong with gnome-services-manager ... and the fact that its in gnome upstream is a strong pro argument ...
[07:34] <thesaltydog> I know. But don't ask me. You can ask to Thomas Hood. He filed some bug too.
[07:34] <ogra_ibook> but you can start a discussion on the ubuntu-devel ML to get it included into main ...
[07:35] <ogra_ibook> if people see a rationaly for dropping the default thats shipped with gnome in favor of bum, we can include it
[07:35] <ogra_ibook> s/rationaly/rationale
[07:35] <thesaltydog> no, too much exhausting
[07:35] <thesaltydog> .
[07:36] <ogra_ibook> i still think UI wise gnome-services-manager is unbeaten, but i must admit that i didnt have any time to look at recent bum releases
[07:39] <thesaltydog> don't worry...  Gnome service manager is too much limited. There are only few scripts listed I don't like others make choices for me... How do you call this? ah... democracy!
[07:40] <thesaltydog> okey, have a nice holiday week oliver!
[07:41] <ogra_ibook> i didnt talk about politics :)
[07:42] <ogra_ibook> people are free to use rrconf, bum or whatever they like
[07:55] <thesaltydog> ogra_ibook, package sysv-rc "suggests" bum
[07:56] <ogra_ibook> in debian ?
[07:57] <ogra_ibook> Keybuk thinks about dropping sysv from ubuntu ...
[07:58] <thesaltydog> yes sysv-rc (2.86.ds1-6), but in dapper bum has been removed from the suggested list. What's wrong with it? Its name?
[07:58] <ogra_ibook> since he heavily disagrees with debian
[07:59] <ogra_ibook> suggests might confuse germinate ...
[07:59] <ogra_ibook> and since bum is not in main that would break sysv
[07:59] <thesaltydog> ok. but they have left sys-rc-conf in.
[07:59] <ogra_ibook> s/sysv/sysv-rc/
[08:07] <thesaltydog> http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&bug_status=UPSTREAM&bug_status=PENDINGUPLOAD&field0-0-0=product&type0-0-0=substring&value0-0-0=g-s-t&field0-0-1=component&type0-0-1=substring&value0-0-1=g-s-t&field0-0-2=short_desc&type0-0-2=substring&value0-0-2=g-s-t&field0-0-3=status_whiteboard&type0-0-3=substring&value0-0-3=g-s-t
[08:11] <Gloubiboulga> evening
[08:11] <raphink> salut Gloubiboulga
[08:12] <Gloubiboulga> hello raphink
[08:13] <raphink> :)
[08:13] <raphink> zouayonwle Gloubiboulga
[08:14] <raphink> ben c'est du french quoi
[08:15] <Gloubiboulga>  peu prs... si j'ai bien compris ma rponse est : merci raphink,  toi zaussi
[08:15] <raphink> ogra_ibook: could you review http://revu.tauware.de/details.py?upid=1000 please ?
[08:15] <raphink> Gloubiboulga: :)
[08:16] <raphink> hmm actually
[08:17] <raphink> I'll work a bit more on it
[08:28] <Kyral> hey all
[08:30] <raphink> hi Kyral
[08:31] <Kyral> How was XMas (if you celebraye it)
[08:32] <raphink> it was nice :)
[08:32] <Kyral> cool
[08:32] <raphink> how was yours?
[08:32] <Kyral> I scored a bunch of programming books :D
[08:32] <Kyral> With this much documentation I should become a Python Master  :D
[08:33] <raphink> great :)
[08:33] <Kyral> and I dreamed up some projects :D
[08:34] <Kyral> as well as got bored and prototyped some system maintainence scripts for my laptop and desktop
[08:35] <raphink> what are these new projects you dreamed of ?
[08:36] <Kyral> well, one is a morph of something I wrote in C before I knew Shell Scripting (WHY DID I WRITE THAT IN C?!)
[08:36] <Kyral> Its basically a mass deployment helper/backup util
[08:37] <Kyral> I capture a snapshot of the packages/configs /etc and create a custom deb on the fly
[08:37] <raphink> mhm
[08:37] <Kyral> NOT using checkinstall
[08:38] <raphink> ok :)
[08:39] <Kyral> like I'd build a skeleton of the package in the script and just plugin
[08:39] <raphink> hmm
[08:40] <Kyral> but its still in planning
[08:40] <raphink> ok
[08:42] <raphink> :)
[08:48] <Kyral> hmm
[08:48] <Kyral> wow...looks like there are Python modules for interfacing with Apt
[08:52] <raphink> oh nice :)
[08:52] <Kyral> I was half ready to write one lol
[08:53] <raphink> hehe
[08:53] <raphink> :)
[08:53] <raphink> that's a nice surprise :)
[09:08] <Gloubiboulga> wb raphink :)
[09:11] <raphink> ty
[09:11] <Kyral> hmm
[09:11] <Kyral> I have realized a one shot command to update a sources.list
[09:12] <Kyral> sudo sed s/hoary/breezy/ /etc/apt/sources.list > /etc/apt/sources.list
[09:13] <Gloubiboulga> well done Kyral
[09:13] <tseng> sudo sed -i /etc/apt/sources.list -e "s:hoary:breezy:g"
[09:13] <Kyral> same thing different format tseng?
[09:13] <tseng>               edit files in place (makes backup if extension supplied)
[09:13] <Kyral> ah
[09:13] <Kyral> didn't know about that
[09:13] <tseng> my point :)
[09:14] <tseng> you do now
[09:14] <tseng> pay it forward
[09:14] <Kyral> indeed
[09:14] <Kyral> I'm gearing up to write another addition to Terminal For Beginners
[09:15] <Kyral> I was gonna include my sed example as an example of sed and output redirection lol
[11:57] <crimsun> slomo: thanks for reverting my banshee hack :)
[11:57] <slomo> crimsun: well, it worked for me from a clean chroot... is the bug still present?!
[11:58] <crimsun> slomo: nope. I figure it's nasty caching issues on my end.
[11:59] <crimsun> slomo: (i.e., it works fine for a new user on this machine, so something mucked with my normal user)
[12:02] <slomo> hm
[12:02] <slomo> with an existing use i had no icon until i restarted