[12:25] <Lord_Athur> is there an edubuntu version with SElinux to download from the web?
[12:25] <crimsun> not that I know of
[12:25] <crimsun> coincidentally, I'm reading a host of SELinux papers :/
[12:27] <Lord_Athur> :D
[01:49] <Lord_Athur> hi
[01:49] <Lord_Athur> mhz_BRB, 
[01:50] <Lord_Athur> mhz_BRB,  /join #banux
[03:54] <mhz> lol!
[03:54] <mhz> http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/     http://openmortal.sourceforge.net/screenshots.html  
[12:53] <mhz> hi all
[03:13] <writer> Hi all!
[03:13] <zakame> hi writer :D
[03:14] <writer> I get today DVD Edubuntu - is it LiveCD?
[03:20] <Yagisan> I don't think so
[03:22] <writer> Who know about Edubuntu-DVD. On the disk I found only art file. May be I bad find?
[03:23] <Yagisan> writer: ogra may know, but he is on holidays
[03:25] <writer> Thanks. Now on the West is Xmas? Yes? When will end the holidays on the West? 
[03:26] <Yagisan> writer: It depends, most companies get 2-4 weeks holidays. 
[03:27] <Yagisan> writer: usually most people are back by January 7
[03:29] <writer> Yagisan: Thank you. OK. In Russia holidays will by January 10. Happy New Year!
[03:30] <zakame> rocking
[03:31] <Lord_Athur> hi
[03:31] <Yagisan> writer: Happy New Year to you too!
[03:31] <Yagisan> G'day Lord_Athur
[03:31] <Lord_Athur> thanks Yagisan, good day for you too
[03:33] <Lord_Athur> I've installed kubuntu breezy today, but kubuntu cannot show me the folders in /mnt of other partition
[03:37] <Yagisan> Sorry Lord_Athur, I'm not very familiar with Kubuntu
[03:37] <Yagisan> does ls /mnt in a terminal work
[03:37] <Lord_Athur> ok Yagisan 
[03:37] <Lord_Athur> :D
[03:40] <writer> Lord_Athur: Yes, in /mnt is nothing. See in /media 
[03:40] <Lord_Athur> there is nothing in media
[03:41] <writer> And what find you?
[03:41] <Lord_Athur> a???
[03:41] <Lord_Athur> writer, do you speak spanish?
[03:41] <Yagisan> Lord_Athur: nothing is mounted there then
[03:42] <writer>  Lord_Athur: No, I speak bad English and good Russia
[03:43] <Lord_Athur> ok writer :D
[03:43] <writer> Lord_Athur: But intersting Ubuntu very
[03:44] <Lord_Athur> that's the important
[03:46] <writer> I write the articles about Ubuntu on the http://linuxcenter.ru
[03:47] <Lord_Athur> I'll see them
[04:37] <mhz> ogra: is this german http://www.ai-vdi.org/ ?
[04:38] <mhz> ogra: BTW, I am convinced... I will work on XFCE instead of wmaker
[04:39] <mhz> Yagisan: hehehe
[04:39] <mhz> well, I'll try
[04:39] <jsgotangco> bah work in gnome :P
[04:39] <zakame> on a celeron 266 :P
[04:40] <Yagisan> zakame: I have a p2 233 right beside me
[04:40] <Yagisan> 64mb ram
[04:40] <mhz> jsgotangco: the good thing is I'll try to use only non-gnome dependant apps 
[04:40] <Yagisan> anyone wants testing on it, just let me know
[04:40] <jsgotangco> well its gtk so you'll be seeing some
[04:40] <mhz> jsgotangco: indeed
[04:41] <zakame> Yagisan: w00t :) I've yet to blog about the celeron running the full gnome though
[04:41] <Yagisan> you kids today are spoilt with your gui's, back in my day it was all punch cards and cli if you were lucky
[04:41] <Yagisan> zakame: if I can find a board, I have a 6x86 120Mhz cpu here
[04:41] <jsgotangco> gahhh i only saw a punch card, not actually use one
[04:42] <mhz> jsgotangco: however, 'nomed' (aka, Daniel) is working on http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/index.php/Home
[04:42] <Yagisan> I remember wiring up the plugboard on my pc
[04:42] <mhz> jsgotangco: and that DSS project is not using gnome dependencies
[04:42] <mhz> so I have some hopes
[04:42] <zakame> Yagisan: ooh classic :)  I didn't do much work on those though
[04:43] <mhz> unless there's a very light KDE arounf
[04:43] <jsgotangco> wow it looks like a launchpad project
[04:43] <mhz> -f + d
[04:43] <mhz> jsgotangco: which one?
[04:43] <jsgotangco> DSS
[04:43] <mhz> oh, yes! very cool project!
[04:43] <mhz> just like openusability.org
[04:44] <jsgotangco> mhz, actually LP will have infrastructure to let you create your own derivatives
[04:44] <jsgotangco> orchard is just proof of concept 
[04:44] <mhz> jsgotangco: yup, but i will not use more LP until it is 'free as in freedom'
[04:45] <mhz> i'll be patient
[04:45] <jsgotangco> whatever suits you, i prefer to be productive :P
[04:45] <mhz> so I'll use just the parts I need to (like auth for wiki)
[04:45] <mhz> jsgotangco: yes, i know your preferences ;)
[04:46] <jsgotangco> mhz, its not that, i need tools to create stuff, like for example, i'll need java so i could export to pdf...
[04:47] <jsgotangco> there's no competely "free" toolchain that can do that at the moment
[04:47] <mhz> jsgotangco: it doesn't matter how cool it looks or how good it is, If I can't share it with you, I won't use it
[04:48] <mhz> so, as long as i know it is not free, I can't feel comfortable promoting its use
[04:48] <mhz> I can be less or similar productive using Tutos project
[04:48] <jsgotangco> how do you exactly define free anyways? FSF definition?
[04:48] <mhz> ahhh, good question
[04:49] <mhz> GPL would summarize it
[04:49] <mhz> 4 basic freedoms will do to me
[04:49] <Yagisan> I tend to agree more with Debian then the FSF about free
[04:51] <mhz> Yagisan: i may consider use non-free software as long as I am not contributing to such project
[04:51] <mhz> in this particular project, I am contributing
[04:51] <mhz> so I need to be sure and feel comfortable enough about freedom
[04:51] <Yagisan> mhz: I tend to see the wiki as non-free myself
[04:52] <mhz> Yagisan: why?
[04:53] <mhz> .oO(ogra will kick me.. maybe this is too much off topic)
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mhz, those are pretty basic and besides, rms is a hippie =)
[04:53] <mhz> lol
[04:53] <mhz> well, good point
[04:53] <jsgotangco> mhz, we haven't even tackled about branding and stuff
[04:53] <mhz> but are the basis for what I have done and invested in last 3 years
[04:53] <jsgotangco> these are just simple issues, but that's one reason why our firefox doesn't have the firefox logo
[04:54] <Yagisan> mhz: it seeks to remove the copyright from contributors, yet wishes to use copyright to prevent people taking content from the wiki
[04:54] <jsgotangco> actually its also possible that our browser shouldnt even be called firefox
[04:54] <zakame> (gartoon has a fox though :P)
[04:54] <mhz> Yagisan: ?
[04:54] <jsgotangco> zakame, but the fox isn't trademarked, the logo is
[04:54] <zakame> yup
[04:54] <jsgotangco> pretty much how canonical has ubuntu and the ubuntu logo trademarked
[04:54] <mhz> Yagisan: it keeps copyright. It is implied in RecentChanges
[04:55] <jsgotangco> (dunno about kubuntu though)
[04:55] <mhz> and also in Last modified by part, Yagisan 
[04:59] <mhz> Yagisan: who told you wiki wishes to use copyright to prevent people taking content from the wiki
[04:59] <Yagisan> mhz: It was in the thread I started
[05:00] <jsgotangco> a pretty long thread
[05:00] <mhz> I dont recall ubuntu-doc people saying they use 'copyright'
[05:01] <mhz> I do recall the need to protect good content to be screwed up
[05:02] <Yagisan> mhz: where are the web archives, I can find the mail
[05:02] <jsgotangco> nice chat but the sandman calls =)
[05:02] <mhz> hehe, jsgotangco bye
[05:02] <Yagisan> mhz: I recall being asked not to contribute if I wish to retain copyright over my work
[05:03] <mhz> yes
[05:03] <Yagisan> bye jsgotangco
[05:03] <mhz> I recall that too
[05:03] <jsgotangco> the problem was mostly attribution i believe
[05:03] <mhz> Yagisan: and that is no related to whishing to have copyright over the content
[05:03] <mhz> jsgotangco: indeed
[05:04] <mhz> Yagisan: if a wiki is community driven content
[05:04] <Yagisan> jsgotangco: yes, that was my motivation for posting
[05:04] <mhz> we would all be the 'owners' of such content
[05:05] <Yagisan> mhz: It's simple for me, if I author a doc, someone else must be the person to put it on the wiki, if others wish to use it
[05:05] <mhz> and therefore, everytime I wish to add or modify (even syntaxis) I'd have to aske permission to every single persone 
[05:05] <ogra_ibook> wasnt there a decision in the last CC meeting that all wiki content will be CC-SA2.5 from now on ? 
[05:06] <mhz> yes, ogra 
[05:06] <ogra_ibook> btw dont mix up copyright with licenses ...
[05:06] <jsgotangco> yep
[05:06] <mhz> good point
[05:06] <ogra_ibook> conent is always copyrighted
[05:06] <Yagisan> yep - but some wish to public domain the wiki
[05:07] <Yagisan> that is certainly not the terms I contribute on. my coding skills will never let me become a motu,
[05:08] <Yagisan> but my other work may - unless my name is removed from said work - in which case - what proof do I have ?
[05:10] <mhz> Yagisan: your name will always remain in a wiki
[05:10] <Yagisan> wow - what a tangent from how do you define free
[05:11] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, you dont need coding skills to be a packager
[05:12] <mhz> ogra: as a matter of fact,,, i need to be sure packages I will work on are as independtant as possible from GNOME
[05:12] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: no, it does make it harder to fix problems. I'm having issues with my ia32-libs-universe package, that would be easier to fix
[05:12] <mhz> so I have been told to 'start packaging like that'
[05:12] <Yagisan> if I knew where to look :(
[05:12] <mhz> ogra: what skill shoul I need then?
[05:13] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, dig the other distros for similar errors in the bugtrackers and find a patch ;)
[05:13] <Yagisan> mhz: I suggest determination, that's what gets me here
[05:13] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: umm, I think I'm the first
[05:13] <ogra_ibook> oh, k
[05:14] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: for kicks, feel free to check this out http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/voodoo_magic_here/
[05:14] <ogra_ibook> then ask a specialist ;) Mithrandir is our amd64 guy, lamont does ia64
[05:14] <mhz> Yagisan: I have determination
[05:14] <mhz> then what's next?
[05:14] <Yagisan> and see if you can work out why it *always* looks for sdl in /usr/lib instead of /usr/lib32 like I set up ldflags
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> mhz, basic scripting knowledge ... know how makefiles are set up and read the debian new maintainers guide
[05:15] <Yagisan> mhz: patience, and a subscription to debian-mentors helps
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> thats all you need for packaging
[05:15] <mhz> okis, thx
[05:15] <mhz> sounds simple
[05:15] <mhz> let's see if I can make it :)
[05:15] <ogra_ibook> also set up a pbuilder to build youor packages in a clean environment ...
[05:16] <Yagisan> and a fresh chroot to test them
[05:16] <ogra_ibook> and learn about lintian and lindam, the error checkers
[05:16] <Yagisan> and apt-cacher or similar set up
[05:17] <ogra_ibook> 2 distros ? 
[05:17] <Yagisan> Ubuntu + Debian
[05:17] <Yagisan> but I broke my debian chroots, and don't have bandwidth to fix them until Jan 7
[05:17] <mhz> wow!!!
[05:18] <ogra_ibook> who needs debian anyway :)
[05:18] <mhz> guys that sounds less simple now
[05:18] <ogra_ibook> mhz, see http://wiki.ubuntu.com/PbuilderHowto and read the debian NM guide 
[05:18] <ogra_ibook> that will get you started
[05:18] <mhz> okis
[05:19] <mhz> sorry to be running but, is the Debian NM is debian.org I assume?
[05:19] <Yagisan> lets see, 2 distros * 2 arches * 2 releases = 8 chroots + 8 pbuilders for me
[05:19] <Yagisan> mhz: yep
[05:19] <mhz> ogra: did you see that xfce in action ? http://www.dsslive.org.test.ibiblio.org/mediawiki/images/Dsslive-desktop.png
[05:20] <mhz> I guess that will suit your 'end-user-desktop' description :)
[05:20] <ogra_ibook> http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/index.en.html
[05:20] <ogra_ibook> mhz ^^^
[05:20] <Yagisan> not counting my i386 chroot for apps like wine, which is why I started ia32-libs-universe
[05:20] <mhz> ogra: thanks for that extra care for me :)
[05:21] <Yagisan> bye mhz
[05:21] <ogra_ibook> hey, i'm still the motu master (at least on paper ;) )
[05:21] <mhz> bye Yagisan I hope you get less bills and more inputs
[05:21] <mhz> :)
[05:21] <mhz> ogra: hehehe
[05:21] <mhz> you are
[05:22] <mhz> BTW, ogra you are too many MR.'s
[05:22] <mhz> :)
[05:22] <mhz> not only on papr
[05:22] <ogra_ibook> yes, thats why i'm only motu master on paper... not enough time for active motu stuff
[05:22] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: master, would you like to laugh at^W^W check carefully my build logs ?
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> sure, where are they ? 
[05:24] <Yagisan> http://eyagi.bpa.nu/~jamie/voodoo_magic_here/deng_1.8.9+1.9.0beta3-1ubuntu2
[05:24] <mhz> ogra: is that Guide in PDF or friendly print somewhere in your HD?
[05:24] <Yagisan> mhz: IIRC that is a bigish guide when printed
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> mhz, i havent used it since ~2years
[05:24] <ogra_ibook> i dont have a local copy
[05:25] <Yagisan> mhz: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.en.pdf
[05:26] <Yagisan> mhz: http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/maint-guide/maint-guide.es.pdf <-
[05:26] <Yagisan> mhz: spanish help ?
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, looks like youre trying to compile with the 64bit version of sdl
[05:26] <mhz> Yagisan: thx, N-NOTU
[05:26] <ogra_ibook> hey \sh 
[05:26] <mhz> Yagisan: thx, N-MOTU
[05:27] <mhz> Yagisan: no, I prefer EN.. usually more updated
[05:27] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: that's the error, but I deliberately set the path /usr/lib32 where I have a 32bit version
[05:27] <\sh> moins 
[05:27] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I can't find what is sending sdl to try and link with the 64bit libs
[05:27] <mhz> \sh: moin
[05:28] <Yagisan> G'day \sh
[05:28] <ogra_ibook> my server gives up :(
[05:28] <\sh> ogra_ibook: your HE server?
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, -L/usr/lib /usr/lib/libSDL.so
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> \sh, yes
[05:29] <\sh> ogra_ibook: u need smtp, imap and webspace?
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> i'm pondering to spend another 700 for new server HW
[05:29] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: yes, but I can't find what sets /usr/lib/libSDL.so
[05:29] <ogra_ibook> currently its running an a minimal setup....
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> but it seems to reboot itself all 5-6h
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> and sometimes it only shuts down
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> i guess it overheats or the memory is broken
[05:30] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ebay it !!
[05:30] <Yagisan> O:-)
[05:30] <ogra_ibook> nope, i'll buy a new one 
[05:31] <ogra_ibook> and use the only case for new HW at home
[05:31] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: I meant ebay the old one
[05:31] <Yagisan> people will buy anything there
[05:32] <mhz> okeys, ogra and Yagisan thx for the extra help
[05:32] <mhz> bye al
[05:32] <mhz> bye all
[05:32] <Yagisan> no worries mhz
[05:32] <\sh> ogra_ibook: what do you need..I could help out right now :)
[05:32] <ogra_ibook> Yagisan, i want to recycle the old one
[05:33] <Yagisan> ogra_ibook: ok, but if it's broke, it's always nice to have someone pay to take it away
[05:33] <ogra_ibook> \sh, not sure yet ...
[05:34] <\sh> ogra_ibook: if you need stable imap/smtp stuff..my server can serve this :)
[05:34] <ogra_ibook> \sh, my prob is that i have 4G hwdb data on the disk ... i dunno if i want to set it on this heavy load right now to mirror it away
[05:35] <\sh> ogra_ibook: well...what you can do is to go to the HE DC and check there
[05:35] <ogra_ibook> \sh, mail is currently running ok ...
[05:36] <ogra_ibook> shit... it crashed again it seems
[05:38] <ogra> ogra@aleph:~$ uptime
[05:38] <ogra>  18:05:55 up 22 min,  1 user,  load average: 0.11, 0.08, 0.10
[05:38] <\sh> we have to put the hwdb stuff on revu or on my server asap
[05:39] <ogra> \sh, i orderes a vserver at HE for it
[05:39] <ogra> *ordered
[05:39] <ogra> but they dont delicer in less than 7-14 days
[05:39] <ogra> *deliver
[05:41] <\sh> hum...normally they are faster
[05:41] <ogra> i even called and begged
[05:41] <ogra> they arent
[05:42] <\sh> ogra_ibook: what about bringing the hwdb to the C DC?
[05:42] <ogra> \sh, thats the long term solution
[05:42] <ogra> currently i dont trust the machine enough to mirror it over the net...
[05:43] <\sh> ogra_ibook: actually you have to do it on the HE DC :)
[05:43] <\sh> s/on/in/
[05:43] <ogra> yup
[05:44] <ogra> http://cgi.ebay.de/19-1HE-Intel-P4-3-0GHz-160GB-512MB-S-ATA-RAID-Server_W0QQitemZ5845484175QQcategoryZ8074QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
[05:44] <ogra> i'll buy that one and put the HD in to mirror it directly i think 
[05:46] <ogra> the nice thing is, even with the additional vserver for 20 i'll save 20 in the end and have redundancy ...
[05:47] <ogra> \sh, the prob with pop/smtp is, that the machine is also the DNS and has the MX entries ... its not just easy redirecting ...
[05:48] <\sh> ogra_ibook: hmmm....updating primary ns records at denic :) 
[05:48] <ogra> \sh, which takes me a lot effort ...
[05:48] <ogra> \sh, i'll rather buy that server and replace my oldie
[05:49] <\sh> ogra: well...if it gets the same ip address :)
[05:49] <Yagisan> ogra: dumb question time - can't you temporally replace your broken system with a spare pc ?
[05:50] <ogra> Yagisan, i have no phys. access to the DC its in ... and the vserver i wanted as a quick replacement doesnt get set up this year anymore
[05:51] <\sh> ogra_ibook: you have :) drive to airport business park :)
[05:52] <ogra> so all i can do is buy a replacement box now (its needed anyway) and set it up as fast as i can
[05:52] <ogra> \sh, doesnt gain me anything without having a replacement
[05:52] <\sh> ogra: true
[05:53] <Yagisan> ogra: so pull your spare parts out of the garage
[05:53] <Yagisan> ogra: It's probally heat, so bring some fans
[05:53] <ogra> Yagisan, i wont replace rubbish with rubbish
[05:54] <ogra> Yagisan, i have touched this machine 5 years ago the last time .... i dont want to touch it the next 5 if possible afetr this is fixed
[05:54] <ogra> *havent
[05:55] <Yagisan> ogra: just a band-aid until you get a new box
[05:56] <ogra> what ? sitting with a hairdryer in the DC ?
[06:00] <\sh> grmpf...
[06:01] <\sh> something is accessing one partition..and fuser doesn't tell me which app..and I'm unable to umount this partition now
[06:01] <Yagisan> \sh: lsof ?
[06:05] <\sh> Yagisan: that was it...
[06:30] <HendrikHAZ> Hi guys!
[06:31] <HendrikHAZ> Ogra, last time you told me to check in Synaptics installer for Kubuntu desktop. I did that, but did not find any packages. Where can I add the packages to the Synaptics manager in order to download them? I am running Edubutu Breezy
[06:32] <HendrikHAZ> Oh, I forgot. I would like to install the Kubuntu desktop on an edubuntu installation
[06:35] <HendrikHAZ> Can anyone help me with this?
[06:36] <ogra> the kubuntu packages are not on the CD
[06:36] <ogra> you need th eonline repositories for it
[06:38] <HendrikHAZ> Sorry again, I am a complete newbie to Linux and Ubuntu. Where can I get them?
[06:39] <ogra> in the settings menu in synaptic ...
[06:41] <HendrikHAZ> Ok I am there and then?
[06:41] <ogra> select repositorys 
[06:41] <ogra> you'll get a popup window
[06:42] <ogra> look whats listed there (i suspect its only the CD)
[06:43] <ogra> if so, click the "add" button on the right 
[06:43] <ogra> and add the online repos
[06:43] <HendrikHAZ> Yes, it said Edubuntu cdrom Breezy. I assume I have to add
[06:43] <ogra> exactly
[06:43] <ogra> if you want to kbe able to install from all 17000 packages we offer, check all the checkboxes
[06:43] <HendrikHAZ> Ubuntu 5.1, sec updates or updates?
[06:45] <ogra> just breezy badger ...
[06:46] <ogra> updates and sec. updates is something you can do additionally ...
[06:46] <HendrikHAZ> k, it's downloading the repositories now. Kubuntu desktop will be in there?
[06:46] <ogra> yup
[06:46] <ogra> you'll find it with the search function then
[06:48] <HendrikHAZ> K, seems I found them. I just need to install the Kubuntu desktop, right? Or are there other packages too?
[06:50] <HendrikHAZ> sorry, it highlighted a whole bunch more. Will try it out. Could this potentially hose my installation or will it just add the Kubuntu desktop to choices for interface?
[06:51] <ogra> you will have gnome and kde then ...
[07:04] <HendrikHAZ> K ogra thx a lot! I will get back to ya if I have any more trouble. You have been a gr8 help m8!
[07:04] <ogra> :)
[07:04] <ogra> i'm happy about every user we get ;)
[08:55] <spacey_ki> http://art.ubuntu.com/images/backgrounds/Edubuntu-Children_Of_Edubuntu_1024x768.png
[08:55] <spacey_ki> hehe