=== Madpilot [n=bburger@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bshumate [n=bshumate@68.210.90.145] has joined #ubuntu-doc === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@pool-68-238-172-222.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=ubuntu@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-doc === robitaille [n=robitail@d154-5-117-228.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Burglaptop wonders what to do with IdeaPool [01:13] hey Burglaptop [01:13] that's a pretty active page i think [01:13] hello jerome [01:14] hey mdke [01:14] happy holidays! (if not too late) [01:14] same to you :) [01:15] i did some doc updates but havent uploaded yet [01:15] cool, why not upload? [01:15] i forgot my laptop [01:16] ah [01:16] which docs? [01:16] kubuntu and server [01:16] oh wow [01:16] mdke: it is pretty active, but a lot of the informatin is already known [01:16] Burglaptop, known or fixed? [01:16] known, with LP specs to talk about each issue [01:17] but theres no activity in svn at all, so i'll just upload when i get my laptop tommorow at my in laws [01:17] i guess you can note that, if you wish [01:17] jsgotangco, sounds good [01:17] ugh, I will just leave it for now [01:27] jsgotangco: do you have any objections if i nuke the various Koffice pages that have no useful help content on them? [01:28] who uses KOffice anyways [01:28] right, they shall die [01:41] spanish? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SmartLinkModemDriverHowto?highlight=%28CategoryCleanup%29 [01:45] mdke: ^ [01:45] why would you delete spanish pages? [01:46] yeah [01:46] my spanish is very poor, but the page looks good to me [01:47] I don't want to delete it [01:47] I want to move it to -ES or something similar [01:47] my spanish isn't good enough to improve it [01:48] will you move all the spanish docs? [01:48] no, just that one because it is an english namespace [01:49] the others seem to have "COMO" after them [01:49] i guess you could add that [01:50] ubuntu-es.org has a lot of documentation on there [01:50] you could ask them to migrate it i guess [01:58] gah, where is the mp3 help on the wiki?? [01:59] mdke: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats [01:59] Madpilot, nope [01:59] at least, I don't see it [01:59] that's the only mp3 page I know of... [02:00] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RestrictedFormats#head-98f0945855102afe97a542ae07168f3ddcc61124 [02:00] ah ok, no separate section [02:00] i found this tho, which is what I was looking for: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CDRipping [02:00] no, it's lumped in with the rest of the non-free stuff [02:01] i think mp3 needs an entry in the TOC on RestrictedFormats, that was too hard to find :( [02:01] especially since the page "mp3" links there [02:01] links/redirects* [02:01] you want to do it, or should I? [02:03] i'll do it, sure [02:11] man that TOC is long and ugly :) [02:12] prime candidate for subpages :) === rob1 looks in [02:14] heya rob1 [02:14] hi mdke [02:15] good christmas? [02:15] yeah, still tired [02:15] how about yourself? [02:17] good thanks [02:28] i slept all day myself yesterday === jsgotangco is just looking around 43things, 43places and 43people [02:53] hmm, the FAQ resources suck quite a lot === theCore [n=theCore@Toronto-HSE-ppp3714417.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:18] mdke: yes, they do [03:18] mdke: I almost wonder if we should redirect ' [03:18] FAQ to UserDoc [03:52] what does everybody think of having all WindowsPrograms as a subpage of WindowsPrograms? === lguerra [n=lguerra@201.244.2.80] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:56] huh? all who as a subpage of what? [04:01] move things like WorldofWarcraft to under WindowsPrograms [04:02] why? [04:02] we know they're windows apps, but wine & linux are the point, not Windows, right? [04:02] put them under Wine then? [04:03] why move them at all? [04:03] because they all require Wine or Cedega === jsgotangco [n=ubuntu@210.4.38.43] has joined #ubuntu-doc [04:28] Burglaptop, ping? [04:31] he was here about half an hour ago, jsgotangco [04:31] ahhh [04:33] jsgotangco: yep? [04:33] heh he's still online im pretty sure, wiki updates are still happening [04:33] see? [04:33] Burglaptop, do you know Mark Johnson, Debian upstream [04:34] jsgotangco: for which package? [04:34] Docbook [04:35] he sent email to Jane a few weeks ago inquiring about doc work, but he hinted at compensation [04:35] i told jane we're volunteers [04:35] :) [04:35] nope, never heard of him [04:35] so jane told mark to contact us [04:35] (Janew) [04:36] well anyways, i invited him over he could probably help out on the technical aspects (that we're not very familiar with) [04:37] i told him not to expect much, we're mostly writers not xml hackers anyways [04:37] (fyi guys) [04:41] jsgotangco: did you have any thoughts about moving Windows stuff under Wine? [04:42] hmmm [04:42] so that you can save the namespace? [04:42] yes, and to clearly identify them [04:42] seems ok but not all windows stuff are wine related [04:43] whatever, I will leave them for now [04:43] jsgotangco: can you try moving WorldofWarcraftHowto to WorldofWarcraft ? [04:43] hold on [04:44] why not just rename the page? [04:45] I did, it fails [04:45] well i created a new page [04:45] purge the Howto? [04:46] hmm? [04:46] purge WorldofWarcraftHowto ? === lguerra is now known as lguerra_duermebe [04:47] how do I do that? [04:48] ummm [04:48] More Actions - delete page ? [04:49] I created and deleted WorldofWarcraft to try and clear that [04:49] I suspect that it is a bug in Moin [04:49] hmm [04:50] a bloody hell, it has already been moved [04:51] yay we still have pitti's christmas gift on locales and apt dumbness [04:51] jsgotangco: there is a workaround [04:52] how? [04:52] remove locales [04:52] the deb won't install [04:52] hmm? [04:52] reinstall the old 2.3.6 one [04:52] upgrade to the 2.3.7 version [04:52] then reinstall your locales [04:52] that is what pitti was trying to say in the email [04:52] how crackful is that? [04:52] not [04:53] ahh [04:53] well, the wine stuff is pretty well in hand now === lguerra_duermebe is now known as lguerra === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === lguerra [n=lguerra@201.244.2.80] has left #ubuntu-doc ["Abandonando"] [05:15] well, that is first time I have blogged about doc work in ages [05:16] you blogged about the wiki tsunami you caused this weekend? [05:17] yep === crimsun [i=nobody@warped.bluecherry.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [05:45] jsgotangco: what do you think about redirecting FAQ to UserDocumentation [05:54] hmmm [06:03] FAQ is hardly formal documentation [06:03] but the information in it is very outdated === jsgotangco wished he had privs updating the website [06:07] FAQ has now been moved on to the website [06:07] s/website/wii [06:07] wiki, even [06:07] most of it are still in zope methinks [06:09] not the faq [06:09] some of us should have edit privs on the website [06:10] i have edit privs on art.ubuntu.com but its hardly usable at the moment [06:11] upading the submitted artwork is cumbersome for starters [06:12] bloody hell kubuntu flight 2 networking is borked [06:15] kde is pretty borked right now [06:15] *sigh* [06:16] how is it borked? [06:16] it is kde *grin* === jsgotangco kicks Burglaptop [06:17] I understand there are some migration issues with recent changes [06:17] gstreamer, etc. [06:20] i like katapult though [06:24] Burglaptop, i remove locales? [06:25] jsgotangco: yes [06:26] specifically? [06:27] apt-get remove locales [06:29] and next i install? [06:29] install the old version of locales off the flight 2 cd [06:29] then upgrade the locales package [06:29] then use the language selector gui to reinstall the language packs [06:30] and use it to set you default locale [06:30] hmm so this is an apt issue right? not locales specifically [06:33] there might be a bug in the locales package as well === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === poningru [n=poningru@pool-68-238-174-181.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:08] Burglaptop, ping? [08:14] jsgotangco: pong [08:15] have you tried http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/packagingguide/C/ch02.html [08:16] nope [08:16] do you think this wording a little strong? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxNewVersion [08:16] the top note [08:18] heh if it breaks stuff why install it in the first place [08:18] some will demand the latest crack [08:18] ...because it's new and shiny! [08:18] bah [08:18] the top note is a bit strong, but that wiki page does some intrusive stuff to someone setup... [08:19] its like buying the first batch of broken xbox units [08:20] anyway, I am rebooting for a bootchart [08:20] brb === Burglaptop [n=corey@S0106001217cbd164.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:25] hmm, 42 secs [08:25] yeah [08:25] average [08:26] mine is similar [08:26] wonder if a 686 kernel would shave any tiome off === ealden_ [n=ealden@ipdial-189-55.tri-isys.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=asda@ubuntu/member/belutz] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:49] jdub, are you there? [08:49] hey Belutz [08:49] hi jsgotangco :D [08:49] how are you? [08:49] not bad what's up [08:50] i'm still in sydney [08:50] i'm coming home tommorow [08:50] oh did you meet jdub at least? [08:51] no :( [08:51] i don't bring my laptop [08:51] why did you spend christmas in sydney? [08:51] because i didn't plan to stay this long [08:51] because my friend's parents ask me to extend my stay in sydney [08:52] Belutz, jdub has been irc idle for the last 92 hours. [08:52] I suspect he is not around [08:53] i see [08:53] why? [08:53] this is my last day in sydney, i thought i could meet him [08:54] why? hmm no reason :D [08:54] i have his number but i don't like giving out numbers he might not like it even [08:54] jsgotangco: http://belutz.blogspot.com [08:54] he's probably out of town as well [08:55] jsgotangco, that's ok :) [08:55] hmm lifeless is in sydney i think [08:55] or maybe not [08:55] i like sydney... [08:56] :D [08:56] i didnt know you studied at wollongong [08:56] jsgotangco, i studied in jakarta, but it's an overseas programme [08:56] ahh right [08:57] but you still have a degree from UoW right? [08:57] yup [08:57] maybe i should consider a homestudy for grad school [08:57] i'm an alumni from UoW [08:58] jsgotangco, yeah, maybe i'm going to apply for some scholarship [08:58] hmm i'll shop around i'm going back to brisbane in 2 weeks after the new year [08:59] waaa... you're going to brisbane? [09:00] it should have been a few weeks ago but i decided to move it next year [09:00] i see [09:00] for work? [09:00] yep === jsgotangco can't afford to travel for leisure :P [09:01] :D === ubuntulog [n=ubuntulo@port49.ds1-van.adsl.cybercity.dk] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Website http://doc.ubuntu.com | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by Burgundavia at Tue Nov 8 03:34:59 2005 === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [12:59] Burgwork, maybe ask about the warning to the firefox page on the forum thread, i can't see anyone complaining about that problem there === teroedni [n=teroedni@ti411310a080-1162.bb.online.no] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jsgotangco [n=jsg@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [06:06] mdke, but people who bork their systems may not make it tothe forums [06:22] holy crap, that was a commit I just saw [06:59] hmm [06:59] http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_id=9155633&forum_id=43270 [07:25] Burgwork, sure, i still think it's a good idea to ask the original author via that thread [07:25] also, I don't think people have borked their systems beyond going to the forum, because that thread has 31 pages of feedback [07:36] mdke, does the warning harm people [07:36] ? === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-105.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Holiday_Kaiser [n=Kaiser@ppp192-57.lns1.adl4.internode.on.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:03] Burgwork, i don't know, i haven't tried the guide. I'm just suggesting you ask the author about it, it's just common courtesy [08:05] if the forum thread shows a lot of satisfied customers, it would be nice to figure out when the problem is caused, and when it isn't === crimsun [n=crimsun@cpe-066-056-187-199.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:18] mdke, most of those users probably don't use some of those programs. But breaking help I consider fairly major [08:18] mdke, the problem is caused all the time, regardless [08:19] any time you upgrade FF, you must upgrade those apps or they will cease to work, period [08:21] it is a major problem if true, but I find it hard to understand why nothing appears on that thread [08:21] firefox is not upgraded anyhow, the old version is left intact iirc [08:21] because most of the forums people don't use those apps [08:22] ok, if you're not going to post, i'm happy to do it [08:22] sure, I am busy at work currently [08:22] i consider it simple courtesy [08:22] some info [08:22] where did you hear about the breakage? [08:23] -users? [08:40] hmm, rethinking this === mdke doesn't press "Submit Reply" [08:45] I think I might be wrong, as much as it pains me to admit it [08:45] you haven't seen the breakage? [08:46] I think to change the note at the top [08:46] it should say "As long as you don [08:46] t remove the existing copy of Firefox, .... [08:47] o.o [08:48] the guide doesn't say to remove it, afaics [08:48] no it doesn't, but people might think to do that anyway, because they "don [08:48] t need it" [08:48] grr, bloody enter key [08:49] a note about that would be fine yeah [08:50] I shall edit it === BlackDesert [n=andrea@host133-56.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:51] i will test that on a fresh breezy install sometime this week [08:51] good idea [08:51] hello BlackDesert [08:51] :) [08:51] hi everybody [08:51] ;-) [08:52] salut BlackDesert === BlackDesert [n=andrea@host133-56.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc === BlackDesert [n=andrea@host133-56.pool8252.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:17] mdke, I like your wording better [09:17] ;) [09:19] can we remove the links to the FAQs on UserDocumentation? [09:19] they suck balls [09:19] yep [09:19] I had though we should redirect FAQ to UserDocumentation === Burgwork almost wrote Userful [09:20] we really need to take anything useful from the faqs and integrate em with the rest of the wiki [09:20] I'll add that to WikiToDo [09:20] they are mostly done. I will do some of that today [09:21] rocking [09:27] blimey [09:27] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/SoftwareManagement looks rather like a new attempt at UserDocumentation ;) [09:28] I really should tackle the big pages like that [09:28] i'm gonna wreak havoc on it [09:29] mdke, can some of us get edit rights to http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/documentation/faq/faqfolder_view [09:29] not that I know of [09:29] ugh [09:29] the new website will be along soon I think [09:29] that badly needs updating [09:29] so that won't be a problem [09:29] i filed a bug about that yesterday tho, it really sucks [09:35] mdke, I was thinking about creating a category called NeedsExpansion [09:35] pages that don't completely explain the topic [09:36] as opposed to pages that are badly written [09:37] hmm not sure [09:37] maybe simple is best [09:37] Burgwork, have we got a comprehensive list of games anywhere? [09:38] there is one on that SoftwareManagement page which I'm about to remove [09:38] mdke, there is no Games page [09:38] let me create one [09:38] I think FAQ is ready to be redirected UserDocumentatin [09:38] ok [09:38] do you think I should just do it or ask for futher input? [09:38] sounds fine [09:39] I'll do the Games page [09:39] redirection done [09:40] I can add things about Wine/Cedega to the games page later [09:40] fine [09:43] it's at "Games" [09:43] why don't we remove the main games from the UserDocumentation page and just have a link to the Games page on UserDocumentation [09:43] that's what I did [09:44] great minds think alike [09:44] hadn't seen the diffyet [09:44] :) [09:49] I think the wiki is really starting to come together as a good resource [09:50] me too [09:50] it's certainly becoming more usable from a new user's perspective, thanks to everyone's work === mhz [n=mhz_chil@200.72.0.209] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:50] it's high maintenance though [09:50] at the moment [09:51] ultimately I'd love to see wiki integration into the distro [09:51] documentation is always high maintenacne [09:51] crimsun, where that will come is through LP-integration [09:51] Burgwork: yep [09:51] and LP-landing pages [09:51] Burgwork, well... a lot of the maintenance on the wiki is not based on the documentation [09:51] look at the time you've spent on those specs [09:51] mdke, yes, indeed [09:51] I hate that LP drives into our wiki [09:51] for people and specs [09:52] i don't [09:52] both of those should be exclusively on LP [09:52] we just need another wiki [09:52] ah, yeah ultimately [09:52] and yes, we also need another wiki [09:52] one that allows "publishing" of a sort [09:52] homepages and specs will ultimately be on LP, I'm sure [09:52] I am not so certain about the specs [09:53] the LP guys didn't see my POV when I was at UBZ [09:54] as a first step, we need to get off the ubuntu wiki onto our own [09:54] then we can start talking better wiki stuff [09:55] is the document storage facility down? [09:56] not sure, it goes down for a short period each day i believe [09:56] it was down yesterday for a quite sometime, and I can't get it now [09:57] try #gwos [09:57] negatory [09:58] i don't know that word [09:59] doesn't exist [10:00] oh, strange [10:00] ah [10:00] #ubuntu-gwos [10:02] if we migrate to our own wiki, should we migrate to Mediawiki at the same time? [10:02] having the same markup as the biggest wikis in the world will probably help us get contributers [10:04] is that a rhetorical question? [10:05] no [10:05] you know my answer ;) [10:05] different Ubuntu wikis with different markup would be so bad [10:05] not to mention different authserver hacks [10:05] yes, the authserv stuff is a breakign point [10:05] but LP is giong to have a gneeric api for that [10:06] because they are working to integrate with many different systems [10:08] dammit, I want to blog again but nobody has blogged [10:08] is that a problem? [10:08] yes, a self imposed rule, so it doesn't become Planet Corey [10:08] ah [10:08] i don't think that will happen ;) [10:09] with the amount of blogging I have been doign recently [10:20] ugh, forgot this page existed https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HowTos [10:21] and now we have someone adding to it [10:21] yeah henrik made it when porting the howtos from the website [10:21] check out RecentChanges [10:21] i see it [10:22] I have emailed that person and asked them to join us here [10:22] cool [10:22] we should probably merge that page into UserDoc as well [10:22] agreed [10:22] once he replys I will do that === Burgwork is about to fall asleep at his deak [10:24] desk, even [10:24] know that feeling [10:25] I didn't get to sleep until 2am this morning [10:25] ugh, moin needs a better method of uploads and attachments [10:25] per page is very very primitive === mdke pushes Burgwork towards #moin [10:32] http://labix.org/irss [10:33] http://moinmoin.wikiwikiweb.de/SinglePageSlideShow [10:34] that second could be very cool for us [10:38] ok, so moin cannot allow users to edit one page and everybody to edit a talk page [10:38] which mediawiki can do, with a single switch [10:39] you can do it in moin, but you must configure on a page by page basis === mdke pushes Burgwork towards #moin [10:42] although I'm not sure about such a feature [10:42] forums do that [10:43] that i what I got from #moin [10:43] what is? [10:43] the information about ACLs [10:43] which in my mind is a key part of a better wiki doc system [10:44] i'm not sure [10:45] i don't think we should shie away from the idea that wiki docs can be collaborative === mdke points at wikipedia [10:46] yes, they can be collaborative [10:47] published help should only need typos being changed and minor things [10:47] web published I mean [10:47] my proposal involves having the in progress stuff as very much collobarative, exactly as today [10:47] but the published stuff would be pushed onto a different wiki with slight different rules [10:48] why? [10:49] because the end user knows they are getting high qulality docs when they go to help.u.c. [10:49] the end user knows they are getting high quality information when they go to wikipedia.org [10:49] so all the end user sees in help.u.c unless they wish to help us [10:50] i'm not really convinced that the extra confusion that having more than one help wiki would put on the user is worth any possible benefit [10:50] but help is tied to a specific release [10:50] and after that release happens, the docs assoicated can be slushy frozen, ala the current svn stuff [10:53]