/srv/irclogs.ubuntu.com/2006/01/02/#ubuntu-artwork.txt

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=== Topic for #ubuntu-artwork: Art Team meeting soon! Please place your vote on an applicable time slot now [https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeamMeetings] to make this meeting happen. Merry Christmas everyone! :)
=== Topic (#ubuntu-artwork): set by klepas at Sun Dec 25 15:37:53 2005
=== #ubuntu-artwork [freenode-info] If you're at a conference, please contact freenode staff to make sure we've made special allowance for many users coming into our network from a single internet address ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#gettinghelp ). Private messages from unregistered users are currently blocked, except to network staff, services and participating registered users ( http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#privmsg )... Thanks!
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artnayhello02:06
artnayhow are you guys? ready to do some serious wiki work?02:07
lukacuhello artnay02:08
lukacunot really ... i must study ... :(02:10
artnayoh :(02:13
artnaymhz pinged me yesterday but I wasn't here02:13
artnayand he didn't tell what he was planning02:14
lukacui will check later if there is anything i can do but right now i must learn some meaningless stuff ;)02:15
klep[a] smeeting on soon... :)02:47
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artnaypong mhz 03:44
mhzping artnay 03:44
mhz?03:44
artnaymhz: yeah, you pinged me yesterday. something about wiki? :)03:45
mhzhehe, short term memory only :(03:46
mhzsorry03:46
mhz:)03:46
artnaysorry, I was kind of buzy yesterday and couldn't hang with you guys :(03:46
mhznp03:46
mhzeveryone is busy 03:47
artnayalthough I wanted to, but my gf was like "how many hours do you spend with ubuntu every day? more than with me?" :D03:47
mhzheheheh03:48
artnayand then I was in a situation where I couldn't say anything to defend myself03:48
mhzartnay: my wife says even more terrible stuff to me :)03:48
artnayand I had to leave :)03:48
artnayI've tried to make her to use Ubuntu but no luck yet :(03:49
mhzwhat does she do?03:49
artnaynothing special, but she and her family still needs shockwave and some other programs that don't run in WINE03:49
artnaybut at least she's using fx03:50
=== klepas loves being in 8 weeks holidays with a free broadband connection and a family of FOSS users
artnayklepas: piss off now! ;D03:50
=== mhz congrats klepas and his family!
artnay8 weeks... I can't recall when was the last time I had that long vacation03:51
=== mhz hasnt had any in 4 years
artnayno, seriously. now relax before you get into college and do some Ubuntu artwork during your holiday :)03:52
klepasnormally i have 6 over the summer hols03:52
klepasbut i graduated from high school, so this year only they were nice and slapped on another 203:52
klepas;)03:52
klepasand yep, i've been doing something productive each and every day so far03:52
klepasthis is currently turning out to be the best holidays i've ever had03:53
artnayI'm doing a new background today03:53
klepas:)03:53
artnaywell at least I'm supposed to do... I have a photo already, so just slam Ubuntu logo and text into it and do some colour replacing03:53
artnayshouldn't take long03:53
klepashehe03:53
klepasgive us a link of the original03:54
artnayspeaking of backgrounds... what about the default background? maybe it shouldn't be a photo so that it would fit with Usplash/GDM etc.03:54
artnayI don't have it, it's on my harddisk03:55
klepasah, that's right, using xp, huh?03:55
artnayyeah, I'm still at work03:55
=== klepas looks lovingly at his suse machine :)
klepaslol03:55
mhzhehehe03:57
artnaymhz: so, the wiki structure? you haven't commented what I proposed03:57
artnayabout the last changes and the overall layout of /Artwork03:58
mhzI have only read it, true. I haven't commented it03:58
mhzMy feeling is subpages are too dangerous to play with03:58
mhzunless03:58
klepasoh, by the way, i think we will have quite an attendance03:59
artnayso what would you suggest?03:59
klepasfor the meeting03:59
klepasshould have a fair few extra people joining us :)03:59
artnayklepas: that's good, thanks for spreading the information :)03:59
mhzwe have nly one level of sbpages and they keep the CamelCase syntax03:59
mhzif no CamelCase is kept, then autolinking will brake03:59
artnayumh, I didn't quite understand. :o so we have only one subcategory on /Artwork, right?04:00
klepasartnay: i estimate... about 5-10 extra people04:01
artnaylike clicking a link will bring a new page with text etc., no links at the moment04:01
mhzartnay: I'll explain04:01
mhzWikis rely on one big power they have: Autolinking. Autolinking means that whwnerver I am writing and I place MauricioHernandez (that's camel case) when I save the page, that CamelCase will direct users to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MauricioHernandez04:02
mhzright?04:02
artnayit is04:03
klepasmhz: ohh, i saw today04:04
klepasmhz: congrats on becoming a member :)04:04
mhzs, continuing with explanation04:04
mhzklepas: ?04:04
klepascommunity council04:05
klepasdunno when it last held their meetings04:05
klepasbut i think i remember seeing your name somewhere04:05
mhzif when writing I place MauricioHernandez/Artwork instead of MauricioHernandez/TheArtwork,04:05
klepasunder "accepted new members"04:05
klepasor something04:05
mhzthe first will not create any link. The second will.04:06
mhzklepas: oh, yes! I am very happy, thx04:06
artnayklepas: it was some time ago, I read a log where they welcomed mhz and discussed about automatix licensing etc.04:06
klepasnice04:06
klepasmhz: nervous during the meeting?04:06
artnaymhz: now is there a reason why only the 2nd example would creat a link?04:07
mhzklepas: yup, very much but on the other hand, after 6 months contributing... 04:08
mhz:)04:08
artnaynow if there was /Artwork which would link to /*buntuArtwork and links to projects on this page, would it be too difficult?04:08
mhzartnay: yes, Wiki syntax is CamelCase to create a link04:08
mhzunless, you use [[CamelCase/Camel] ] 04:08
mhzwhich is longer and less probable users will remember that when editing04:09
mhzthe nice feature about CamelCase is that you just write04:09
artnaybut I see no other way to handle this artwork/wiki issue. all artwork projects should be accessible by using only one page (/Artwork). /Artwork should cover all neccessary information BUT it shouldn't contain anything that wouldn't be accessible from UbuntuArtwork, KubuntuArtwork etc.04:11
artnayso people could bookmark their favourite distro's artwork project and they wouldn't be forced to use /Artwork04:11
mhzartnay: to make things crystal-clear... could you make a txt doc or other format where you graphically  show what you have in mind?04:13
mhzmaybe i am missing one of yur points04:13
artnayand there hasn't been any other propositions (which isn't good)04:13
artnayhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal should cover it04:14
artnaywhen I click /UbuntuArtwork link on /Artwork, it would bring me a list of all projects related to Ubuntu artwork (like /ArtworkTodoList is now)04:14
artnaybut the problem is that all *buntus want to have their own style, so every /*buntuArtwork page should cover the subjects (unified structure, that's what I'm talking about)04:15
mhzohhh04:16
mhzwe can fix that 'free-creating-page-style by proposing users to use CategoryArtwork at the end of each single page04:16
mhzthis way, when we visit the page CategoryArtwork, this will list automatically all pages including that link (CategoryArtwork)04:17
artnayyes, therefore we should create a working structure that would be used in all projects04:17
artnayat the moment there are lots of artwork related sites that aren't listed in proper places, don't have "Artwork" in a title etc.04:18
mhzyes, but my fear is how we 'convince' people04:18
artnayso it's quite hard to track this pages04:18
mhzindeed04:18
artnays/this/these04:18
artnayconvince people of what?04:19
mhzok, let me get this streight04:19
mhzartnay: you propose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTeams ?04:19
mhzartnay: you propose https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork or https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkWork04:20
mhzor a different approach?04:20
artnaywhat's /ArtworkWork?04:20
artnayArtworkTodoProposal is currently a temporariry page to access some artwork related pages04:21
artnayand /ArtworkTeams is for what?04:21
artnaynow how should I guess that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuArtwork will cover Kubuntu's logo?04:23
artnayit should be something like /Artowork -> /KubuntuArtwork -> KubuntuArtworkResources or something similiar04:23
artnayI don't really know04:23
artnayit would be more logical at least for me04:24
artnayand /UbuntuArtwork shouldn't be about logos and palettes etc.04:24
mhzso, if we have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuArtwork page how many SubPages do you consider from it?04:25
artnayit should cover links to all Ubuntu artwork related pages04:25
artnaythat would be the main page04:25
artnayit would have links to other pages, TOC in the bottom of the page04:25
artnaylike, umh, Projects (a similiar list to /ArtworkTodoList) and maybe something else04:26
artnayevery *buntuArtwork projects covers different projects, the approach to artwork differs etc.04:28
artnaysome cleanup would be needed in /Artwork and with my grammar :)04:29
mhzheheh04:29
mhzwe'll need many people to understand the pros and cons of such organizing wiki pages :(04:30
mhzthat is also difficult04:30
=== mhz needs to think big deal on this
artnayit surely is. but nobody has proposed a better approach04:30
mhzartnay: i like and share your concern very much04:31
artnaywiki is our main project at the moment. we can't actually think that people will contribute if they don't have a clue what to do04:31
mhzyup04:32
artnaywe could propose that every *buntu will create a /*buntuArtwork page that would contain similiar topics as mentioned in ArtworkTodoList04:35
klepasgnite04:35
artnaybye klepas 04:35
klepas:)04:35
=== mhz_idle bbs
klepassee you in 7 hours and 25 minutes04:36
klepas24 minutes04:36
klepas:)04:36
artnayok04:36
klepas;)04:36
artnayI will most probably not be here then04:36
artnaybut try to create something out of wiki :o04:37
mhz_idleartnay: stiil there?05:19
artnaymhz_idle: I just came home. what's up?05:33
mhz_idleI will think of a 'tree' of logic Pages for artwork related stuff and general to all atwork teams05:34
mhz_idlethen will compare it to yours and we can set a proposal to use subpages in the less cases as possible05:34
mhz_idleis that right for you?05:34
artnaymhz_idle: that's what I've been asking, comments and suggestions :)05:35
artnaythanks mhz05:35
artnaymaybe I should do my own05:36
artnaybut guests are coming soon... so I have to do some cleaning before that05:36
mhz_idlehehehe, mee too05:37
mhz_idleI am cooking now05:37
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artnayhttp://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-art/2005-December/000558.html07:42
artnaywhat do you think?07:42
artnayAUC would be the primary place to submit ubuntu artwork, also *projectname*DiscussionArtwork could be used as well to attach files07:43
artnay*projectname*Artwork would be sort of status page, dependencies, links to resources and guides that are related to this project etc.07:44
artnayhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodo08:11
artnayhttps://wiki.ubuntu.com/ArtworkTodoProposal08:11
artnay:o08:11
artnaycan we get some Artwork grepping on https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges ?08:15
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mhzartnay: ping09:10
mhzlukacu: ping09:10
artnayhey mhz 09:10
lukacuhello09:10
artnay /ArtworkTodoProposal updated09:10
mhzartnay: hey, good to see ya here so late, i guess09:10
mhzartnay: please see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez09:11
artnayyou too09:11
mhzat the bottom om it, 'navegation macro'09:11
mhzwill help your ideas so subpages get listed 'automatically'?09:11
lukacumhz: you can write macros in moinmoin ?09:19
mhzyup09:20
mhzMoin is 100% python09:20
lukacunice ... now, if only i knew python ;)09:20
mhzhehehe09:21
mhzme too?09:21
mhz!09:22
lukacuwell i have every intention to learn it but there is just no time09:23
mhzindeed09:23
mhzI will start reading about making themes for XFCE before python and XML09:24
lukacuyeah ... priorities. i have my queue too09:25
mhzmine is endless09:27
lukacu:)09:27
artnayhey mhz 09:36
artnaydid you read this: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork09:37
artnaylayout changed and now it sort of has a structure09:37
mhzartnay: please see http://wiki.edubuntu.org/MauricioHernandez09:38
mhzwill help your ideas so subpages get listed 'automatically'?09:38
artnaymhz: so could we grep -i Artwork https://wiki.ubuntu.com/RecentChanges09:38
mhzhehehehe09:38
artnayas "news" ?09:38
artnaywell you get the idea :)09:38
mhzPeople can just subscribe to any page they like and will get mail notifications plus a nice DIFF inside the mail body09:39
artnayyeah, that's true09:39
mhzso, if people susbcribe to /Artwork09:39
artnaybut there lots of people who haven't signed up09:39
mhzyup09:39
mhzcould /Artwork become UbuntuArtwork instead?09:40
artnayoh noes, I've lost verbs :|09:40
artnaymhz: why?09:40
artnay /UbuntuArtwork should cover Ubuntu-related projects09:40
mhzhmmmm09:40
mhzcould we make standard ArtWork instead of plain Artwrok ?09:41
mhzand then keep CamelCase l;inking09:41
artnaywhat do you mean?09:42
artnaysorry, I'm not good at wikis :| *goes rtfm*09:42
mhzartnay: np09:43
mhzif we use http/Artwrok instead http/ArtWork09:43
mhzthe 1st will not be considered link when you edit a page and place that word09:43
mhzthe 2nd will be a link inemediately09:44
artnayso what should be done and how? how's that preventing us?09:44
artnaywhat would you suggest?09:47
artnayit would be great to have wiki in a better shape by tomorrow09:47
artnayname it ArtWork?09:49
artnaythat's all? or do you have anything better to offer? :)09:49
artnaymhz: and can we get that "grepped" version of RecentChanges? then just add link "Recent changes in Artwork pages" below the news section09:51
mhznope09:51
artnaythat would help people who haven't signed and just want to see what's happening09:51
artnayit would be very useful09:51
mhzartnay: i'll ask my friends in #moin09:52
mhzbut I dont think so09:52
artnaywell that's strange09:52
artnayit's kind of basic operation, don't you think? :o09:52
mhzartnay: by standard, I mean, that ArtWork should then be used everywhere in wiki instead of Artwork09:52
mhzor viceversa09:52
mhzbut if we do the latter09:52
mhzto make it a link we'll have to write [/Artwork]  everytiem09:53
artnayunderstood09:53
artnayit's all the same to me, what matters is usability09:53
mhzIMHO, usability is ArtWork09:54
artnaybut we really could have some use for the list of recent changes in *ArtWork* pages09:54
mhzunless in english, artwork is just one word09:54
mhzIn spanish, it is 2 word09:55
artnaywell Artwork would be used only on one page09:55
artnayno... ArtWork :)09:55
mhzartnay: it's possible only if we touch Moin code (python)09:55
mhzhmm09:55
mhzyes,  but everytime we edit pages on any content, we'll refer to Artwork or ArtWork... then it'll matter09:56
artnaybut that's just a minor issue now, I think09:56
artnaywe need the structure first09:56
artnaythen build it, at this point we need a decision on that09:56
artnay(wheter we use Artwork or ArtWork)09:57
artnayhow many people will attend tomorrow? do you guys have any idea?09:57
lukacunope ...it will be a complete surprise for me09:58
artnaymhz: I didn't know CamelCase is case-sensitive although that's quite obvius */me goes hit his head into a wall :|*09:59
mhzartnay: hehehehehe10:00
mhzdont be hard on yourself10:00
mhzat least, wait until AFTER the meeting10:00
mhzwe need you there10:00
mhz:D10:00
lukaculol10:00
artnayI just stared at what you wrote and was like "umh"10:01
artnaythis is one of those situations when you feel yourself dummy10:01
artnay;)10:01
artnayanyways, it wouldn't matter if we think about it10:01
artnayumh10:01
artnaynow what was that... nevermind10:01
artnay"as a dummy" and the 2nd one would be... just renew the wiki! :D10:03
artnayshould we post an announcement to ubuntuforums?10:08
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mhzartnay: a post to announce the meeting?10:24
mhzsure10:24
=== mhz never goes to forums though
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klepasmoin moin11:46
lukacumoin klepas11:46
klepasmeeting soon :)11:50
lukacuyeah ... a bit more than a day to go :)11:53
mhzmoin klepas 11:55
=== mhz can't wait to see how many of the 8 votes show up
mhz:D11:55
klepaswell there might even be more people that a not in the art team showing11:56

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