[05:50] <floam> looks like libsdl-ruby in dapper is uninstallable
[05:54] <crimsun> it needs to be rebuilt against transitioned libsmpeg0c2, that's all
[06:07] <crimsun> floam: should be installable in 35 minutes.
[06:23] <Burglaptop> attention all: please help Scott make Ubuntu boot faster by contributing to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting
[06:34] <jsgotangco> yes sire
[06:35] <Burglaptop> I said please!
[06:45] <floam> crimsun: cool
[06:52] <floam> Burglaptop: are bootcharts not allowed if the person has non-vanilla services or things they don't use disabled?
[06:52] <Burglaptop> floam: just note that in the notes
[06:53] <Burglaptop> but in general, default is better
[06:53] <floam> ok
[06:58] <floam> added
[06:59] <crimsun> elmo: please sync qca, quickplot, snacc, sigcperl, rubyfilter, rapidsvn, and mercator from Sid (ok to override Ubuntu changes), thanks.
[07:02] <floam> wow, I guess my 0:30 boot is fast compared to others on that page
[07:02] <floam> I still feel like it sits doing not much often
[07:30] <floam> anyone notice in Dapper's epiphany you can see the actual "&" signs in all the dialogs where they want to have an underlined accelerator?
[07:31] <floam> s/all/some/
[07:35] <tseng> Burglaptop: sorry, why am i nuking someone elses laptop page?
[07:35] <tseng> Burglaptop: from what we've seen so far different submodels behave radically different, esp different available video options
[07:37] <tseng> Burglaptop: like ubuntu bug 14497
[07:37] <whiprush> floam: yep.
[07:37] <whiprush> hi tseng, merry xmas.
[07:38] <whiprush> etc.
[07:38] <tseng> whiprush: hi, same to you
[07:38] <floam> BenC: I've reported the ATAPI thing to k.o bugzilla, and added a URL to the ubuntu post
[07:38] <floam> I hope something happens ;)
[07:39] <jsgotangco> whiprush, FRIDGE JR
[07:39] <whiprush> heh
[07:40] <whiprush> my waistline is getting more fridge'd after these holidays.
[07:42] <jsgotangco> gahh cut on the jerky and coldcuts dude
[09:15] <sivang> whiprush: really? :) wow!
[09:16] <sivang> whiprush: you have photos ?
[10:49] <mdke> floam, on that epiphany bug, it is reported upstream
[10:52] <mdke> mozilla bug #319901
[11:58] <Moeen> When I make a Package, is it possible to Maintainer Name Email comes with a Anti-Spam address ? for example in debian/control have something like this : Maintainer: Mat Watson <mat @!@ ubuntu.com>
[12:04] <mvo> Moeen: see #debian-devel :)
[12:10] <\sh> I wonder why "cppunit" landed in the "NEW" queue now....
[12:47] <lucasvo> I have problems with my dapper dependencies
[12:47] <lucasvo> The following packages have unmet dependencies:
[12:47] <lucasvo>   linux-image-386: Depends: linux-image-2.6.15-10-386 but it is not installable
[12:47] <lucasvo>   linux-restricted-modules-386: Depends: linux-restricted-modules-2.6.15-10-386 but it is not installable
[12:47] <HiddenWolf> lucasvo, this is not a support channel. 
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> wait a few hours, then update & upgrade again
[12:48] <lucasvo> HiddenWolf: yes, but it is not the problem of the user...
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> if it's not gone tonight, file a bug. 
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> lucasvo, this kind of thing is common, since the archive is moving all the time
[12:48] <lucasvo> so I can't do anything except tell dev's about it
[12:48] <lucasvo> HiddenWolf: ok
[12:48] <HiddenWolf> lucasvo, should be gone in a few hours
[12:50] <HiddenWolf> lucasvo, you updated at a time where the one new version is in, but the depends is not yet. Probably still being built.
[12:50] <ogra_ibook> nope
[12:50] <lucasvo> I am waiting for already about 12h
[12:50] <ogra_ibook> the package has a new name (it carries the version number)
[12:51] <HiddenWolf> hm, does it?
[12:51] <ogra_ibook> so its sitting in the NEW queue, waiting for someone to unleash it
[12:51] <ogra_ibook> sure: linux-image-2.6.15-10-386
[12:52] <ogra_ibook> the 10 is the revision from the version number ...
[12:53] <HiddenWolf> Ok, i'm stupid. ;)
[12:54] <ogra_ibook> nah
[12:54] <HiddenWolf> How do you know. ;)
[12:54] <ogra_ibook> lucasvo, its nothing tragic, just wait
[12:55] <lucasvo> http://releases.ubuntu.com/edubuntu < has wrong title, ogra
[12:55] <lucasvo> Kubuntu :D
[12:55] <HiddenWolf> ogra_ibook, of course it's tragic, he's being denied the latest and greatest! ;)
[12:55] <lucasvo> exactly :P
[12:56] <ogra_ibook> heh, true ... the title reads kubuntu ... 
[12:57] <ogra_ibook> i'll see this as tribute to their kdeedu apps we use in gnome :) 
[12:57] <HiddenWolf> well, as long as it's a buntu. ;)
[12:57] <lucasvo> let's put a SuSE image there :)
[12:58] <ogra_ibook> it should be changed, but i dont have access ... so it will have to wait ...
[12:58] <lucasvo> ok
[01:08] <hunger> Yahoo! My box finally boots again!
[01:09] <hunger> Sorry, wrong channel...
[01:19] <hunger> Could someone please fix malone #6216? It is a one line change and I explained what needs to be done.
[01:20] <pitti> Hi
[01:20] <hunger> pitti: Hi!
[01:20] <ogra_ibook> moin pitti 
[01:20] <pitti> hi ogra_ibook, hi hunger 
[01:20] <pitti> ogra_ibook: ooh, you got an ibook?
[01:20] <ogra_ibook> yup
[01:21] <ogra_ibook> edubuntu ppc is near :)
[01:21] <hunger> pitti: You introduced LUKS, didn't you? Could you please apply the fix in malone #6216 to mount.crypt?
[01:21] <hunger> pitti: It does not work with LUKS volumes as is.
[01:23] <hunger> pitti: You still remember the cryptdisk start/stop script I mailed you a while back? Could you please consider using it (malone #563).
[01:23] <pitti> hunger: sure, I'll look at it
[01:24] <hunger> pitti: Please look into malone #6216 first. It is a trivial change I think and fixes LUKS partitions in pam_mount.
[01:24] <pitti> I assigned #6216 to me
[01:25] <hunger> pitti: I'll run into this on my next upgrade of pam_mount;-)
[01:25] <hunger> pitti: Thanks!
[01:34] <sivang> hi all!
[01:34] <sivang> I didn't know there were anybody online working today :)
[01:37] <HiddenWolf> ogra_ibook, playing with OSX? :P
[01:37] <ogra_ibook> pfft
[01:38] <ogra_ibook> the playing phase is already done :)
[01:38] <sivang> ogra_ibook: hehe 
[01:38] <ogra_ibook> got this baby before christmas already ...
[01:38] <sivang> ogra_ibook: congrets
[01:38] <ogra_ibook> thanks
[01:39] <sivang> pitti: I managed to work with dbus/hal from python, basing on hal-device-manager code. it's very nice :)
[01:40] <ogra_ibook> apart from being totally broken in dapper you mean ? :)
[01:41] <sivang> ogra_ibook: don't know about it, it's working fine for me :-D, what's broken with it?
[01:41] <ogra_ibook> your device manager works ? 
[01:42] <ogra_ibook> with dbus 0.60 ?
[01:43] <Moeen> is there any GUI for dbus ?!
[01:43] <ogra_ibook> to see the messages rushing by ?
[01:44] <sivang> ogra_ibook: yes
[01:44] <Moeen> sometimes I see some messages in Text mode
[01:44] <Moeen> for example: You CPU temprature is high ... how can I see them in Graphical mode ?!
[01:45] <Moeen> s/You/Your
[01:45] <sivang> Moeen: there are other tools for that, that's not related to "dbus gui" IMHO
[01:45] <Moeen> sivang, like ?!
[01:48] <Moeen> sivang, tell me the name of them (at least one of them :P ) ?!?!?!?
[01:48] <sivang> hrm
[01:48] <Moeen> !hrm
[01:49] <sivang> they should be something like the cpu freq indicator, I don't know any specific names. sorry. but IIRC linux has support for sensors so such info can be exposed by some GUI. (anybody care to correct me on that)
[01:49] <Moeen> I'm speaking about the dbus messages
[01:50] <Moeen> it was an example
[01:50] <Moeen> another could be when a device connected, It will tell us that is connected
[01:51] <sivang> Moeen: you can use hal-device-manager for that, it will let you know if device was connected or dis etc. Do you specifically need to see the dbus messages?
[01:52] <Moeen> sivang, I don't need a specific thing
[01:52] <ogra_ibook> how about:  dbus-monitor| zenity --text-info --width 700 --height 400 --title 'dbus Messages' 
[01:52] <Moeen> sivang, something that show me all the dbus messages
[01:52] <ogra_ibook> ;)
[01:53] <ogra_ibook> and have a look at man dbus-monitor about the filters and switches:)
[01:54] <Moeen> ogra_ibook, interesting :P but I don't have dbus-monitor
[01:54] <Moeen> ogra_ibook, ok, found the package ;)
[01:54] <ogra_ibook> its in dbus-utils i think
[01:55] <ogra_ibook> you could also do it with a 20 line pygtk script and a glade file if you want it more beautyful
[01:56] <Moeen> ogra_ibook, yes, I may write it :)
[01:56] <ogra_ibook> :)
[01:57] <Lathiat> ogra_ibook: new ibook?
[01:57] <ogra_ibook> yup
[01:57] <Lathiat> nifty
[01:57] <ogra_ibook> yes, its fun :)
[01:57] <Lathiat> wonder if that extreme driver has gotten anywhere 
[01:57] <ogra_ibook> its running here
[01:58] <Lathiat> it works
[01:58] <Lathiat> ?
[01:58] <ogra_ibook> partially ...#
[01:58] <Lathiat> the airport extreme in linux with that bcm43xx driver?
[01:58] <Lathiat> how partially?
[01:59] <ogra_ibook> it offrers no wireless extensions to the system... so wavemon and other stuff doesnt work ... it works only reliable at low speed
[01:59] <Lathiat> well thats a start i guess
[01:59] <ogra_ibook> its enough
[01:59] <Moeen> how Shutdown warning message works ? it uses dbus, too ?!
[02:00] <Moeen> for example when I use : shutdown -k -h now 
[02:00] <Moeen> how it broadcast the message for shutdown to all the users ?
[02:00] <Robot101> it writes to all the TTY's
[02:00] <ogra_ibook> nope, thats done differently
[02:00] <Robot101> its nothing to do with dbus
[02:01] <Moeen> how can I monitor them in Graphical mode ? is there something like dbus-monitor there ?
[02:01] <Robot101> no, just run dbus-monitor in a terminal.
[02:02] <Moeen> Robot101, something like dbus-monitor for monitoring the TTY's ...
[02:02] <Robot101> what?! no
[02:02] <Robot101> a tty is a console in linux
[02:03] <Robot101> it's got absolutely nothing to do with dbus
[02:03] <Robot101> there is no dbus message that tells you when the system is shutting down
[02:04] <ogra_ibook> you could add one :)
[02:05] <Moeen> ok, now how can I monitor the TTYs messages ? :(
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> but since you'll see X closing anyway a second or two after the message is sent, you will get small problems to display it in time :)
[02:06] <Moeen> In one of the Window Managers (I don't remember, maybe fluxbox), it will show the tty messages. I want to emulate it in Gnome
[02:06] <Robot101> are you talking about syslog?!
[02:07] <Robot101> open a console and tail -f /var/log/syslog
[02:08] <ogra_ibook> or run gnome-system-log
[02:09] <Moeen> Robot101, I need to it will run when a new message come
[02:09] <Robot101> I really have no idea what you're talking about. where are these messages? find a screenshot or something.
[02:10] <\sh> Moeen: you mean tty messages as if you "write" to another user on another console?
[02:10] <\sh> or talk requests?
[02:10] <ogra_ibook> no he means notification bubbles from syslog 
[02:11] <sivang> ogra_ibook: dbus-utils is the packages?
[02:11] <\sh> ogra_ibook: and that is what? xtail -f /var/log/syslog ?
[02:11] <Moeen> Let me give an example. You are in gnome. when another person try to shutdown my computer by ssh, one new window shows that something like this : Broadcast message from root (pts/3) (Wed Dec 28 16:58:53 2005):The system is going down for system halt NOW
[02:12] <sivang> he wants something like system messages from managment console in windows :)
[02:12] <ogra_ibook> Moeen, the Robot101 gave you the right command, just have a terminal open with this command
[02:12] <ogra_ibook> s/the/then/
[02:13] <\sh> ogra_ibook: no it's not :)
[02:13] <\sh> ogra_ibook: it
[02:13] <ogra_ibook> sure
[02:13] <\sh> ogra_ibook: no....man write :)
[02:13] <ogra_ibook> the shutdown message should show up in syslog
[02:13] <\sh> ogra_ibook: yes
[02:14] <sivang> hmm, dpkg -S dbus-monitor didn't return anything. 
[02:14] <\sh> ogra_ibook: but he means the "popup message on the console" 
[02:14] <ogra_ibook> \sh, i know
[02:14] <\sh> ogra_ibook: hint on "write" :)
[02:14] <Moeen> sivang, dkpg -S dbus-utils
[02:15] <sivang> Moeen: I tried to search for the executable file itself , as dpkg -S should return it as well
[02:15] <Moeen> \sh, yes, popup message on the Graphical mode :)
[02:15] <Mez> fecking internet
[02:15] <Mez> been down for 3 days cause pipexclosed tech support
[02:15] <sivang> what I said - window ssystem broadcasted messages :)
[02:16] <Moeen> sivang, oh, right :P excuse me
[02:16] <sivang> Moeen: np :)
[02:16] <sivang> but it doesn't find any of those on my system.
[02:16] <sivang> Moeen: dbus-1-utils
[02:17] <Moeen> I can't see the (shutdown) broadcasts in syslog !
[02:17] <Moeen> so tail 0f /var/log/syslog not works
[02:17] <Moeen> s/0f/-f
[02:18] <ogra_ibook> then its in /var/log/messages
[02:18] <ogra_ibook> Dec 24 21:13:07 localhost shutdown[3579] : shutting down for system reboot
[02:18] <ogra_ibook> thats in my messages
[02:19] <\sh> Moeen: what you want is a syslog notifier for special messages
[02:20] <\sh> Moeen: the "broadcasted messages" of `shutdown` are done via tty write, which has nothing to do with any GUI mode...
[02:21] <Moeen> \sh, yes, but there isn't any application what show me these messages in graphical mode ?
[02:21] <Moeen> ogra_ibook, it doesn't show the broadcast messages :( (/var/log/messages)
[02:21] <\sh> Moeen: what graphical mode? 
[02:21] <Moeen> \sh, X (I use Gnome)
[02:22] <ogra_ibook> tail -f -c1 /var/log/messages|grep 'shutting down' && zenity --warning --text "shutdown"
[02:22] <ogra_ibook> ;)
[02:23] <\sh> Moeen: yes yes...but "what graphical mode" should the text line be displayed? as cake or as candle? there is no other way of representing a text line only as text line...so "gnome-terminal" -> tail -f /var/log/messages :)
[02:23] <Moeen> ogra_ibook, it will not show broadcast messages. you can try it : shutdown -k -h now 
[02:23] <Mez> \sh - did you see my /query ?
[02:23] <Moeen> ogra_ibook, then tail /var/log/messages
[02:23] <ogra_ibook> yes, that shows the above command for me
[02:24] <ogra_ibook> Dec 24 21:13:07 localhost shutdown[3579] : shutting down for system reboot 
[02:24] <ogra_ibook> was a direct paste from my messages file
[02:24] <\sh> Moeen: the "broadcast message" is special generated from shutdown and written to all opened tty devices via tty write...it has nothing to do with syslog or gui mode or what ever...what you see as broadcast message is just a nifty trick
[02:25] <ogra_ibook> its sent in parallel with the entry in the messages file ...
[02:25] <ogra_ibook> so if this one shows up, you can grep it in the messages file and show a zenity popup
[02:26] <Moeen> \sh, yes, you are completely right !
[02:26] <Moeen> \sh, but of course there is some way to see them in graphical mode
[02:27] <\sh> Moeen: ogra gave you the answer :)
[02:27] <sivang> Moeen: the zenity hacks seems to the point here :)
[02:27] <Moeen> /var/log/messages not shows the broadcast messages, it will log shutdown when init changes
[02:27] <\sh> Moeen: or you write something like a tty emulator for gnome-terminal, which is catching then the tty writes as well...there was a tool in kde somewhere
[02:28] <sivang> :)
[02:29] <sivang> my workmates made em install them an kubuntu with amarok in, to be able to do DJing from web interface :)
[02:29] <Moeen> sivang, do you know the KDE tool name for this reason ?
[02:29] <sivang> Moeen: no, I'm just mumbeling , sorry
[02:29] <Mez> sivang: except for making your food for you
[02:29] <sivang> Mez: soemthing liek that, yeah. I now realize how important is to have Kubuntu.
[02:29] <\sh> sivang: i think it's not existing anymore...
[02:29] <Mez> sivang - cool
[02:30] <ogra_ibook> sivang, bah, take edubuntu, it unites the desktops ;)
[02:31] <sivang> ogra_ibook: it does? I didn't know that :)
[02:31] <ogra_ibook> only in the edu sector ;)
[02:32] <sivang> ogra_ibook: you use both KDE and GNOME , that is different tools from both to do the job?
[02:32] <ogra_ibook> but it has the advantag that you dont need to DL all the libs and language packs
[02:32] <sivang> \sh: the logger tool or amarok? :)
[02:32] <\sh> sivang: the logger tool
[02:32] <sivang> \sh: ah
[02:33] <\sh> sivang: well...amarok will disappear as well..when we don't need any digital music anymore...
[02:34] <sivang> \sh: when is this going to happen? when we have brain wave trasmitted music? :-D
[02:34] <Lathiat> pitti: about?
[02:34] <\sh> sivang: sure thing :) so it means in 3-5 years ,)
[02:37] <Moeen> resize_reiserfs is safe to use ?
[02:38] <Lathiat>  subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
[02:38] <Lathiat> from apt
[02:38] <Lathiat> does that mean the preinst script
[02:38] <Lathiat> or something else?
[02:38] <Lathiat> cus i cant see anywhere the locales preinst script could return !0
[02:42] <Lathiat> ah, sh -e, exits with error if a simple shell command fails
[02:51] <siretart> \sh_away: the new gajim is nice! :)
[02:51] <Lathiat> gah this is annoying
[02:52] <Lathiat> anyone else have a problem upgrading locales?
[02:53] <sivang> Lathiat: just overwrite, it will go away :)
[02:53] <sivang> (that's what I've done)
[02:53] <Lathiat> overwrite what?
[02:54] <sivang> Lathiat: I got a problem with upgrading locales, about a file that was needed to replaced/overwrote. --force did the job
[02:54] <Lathiat> nah thats not my problem
[02:54] <Lathiat> Unpacking locales (from locales_2.3.7-1_all.deb) ...
[02:54] <Lathiat> dpkg: error processing locales_2.3.7-1_all.deb (--install): subprocess pre-installation script returned error exit status 1
[02:55] <Lathiat> preinst runs fine if i do it 
[02:55] <Lathiat> so i dunno wtf is failing
[02:56] <pitti> Lathiat, sivang: http://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-devel-announce/2005-December/000043.html
[02:56] <Lathiat> pitti: so.. how do i solve that?
[02:57] <sivang> pitti: I didn't file any bugs about it :) I already read it :)
[02:57] <Lathiat> so i have to install the new lang packs first?
[02:57] <pitti> Lathiat: easiest in your situation: sudo dpkg -i --force-overwrite /var/cache/apt/archives/locales_2.3.7*.deb
[02:57] <pitti> Lathiat: yes, that helps, too
[02:58] <Lathiat> pitti: thats not helping
[02:58] <Lathiat> pitti: as i said, its not an overwrite problem
[02:58] <pitti> oh, I see
[02:58] <pitti> https://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21436 maybe?
[02:59] <sivang> pitti: I touched a dummy file, and it helped. Was it ok to solve this that way?
[02:59] <pitti> sure, yes
[02:59] <sivang> pitti: (and created the needed dir-tree)
[02:59] <sivang> pitti: ah, cool :)
[03:00] <Lathiat> pitti: yes, looks like that bug
[03:00] <Lathiat> interestingly running the preinst manually works
[03:02] <Lathiat> hrm, except the directory does exist here, weird
[03:05] <Lathiat> ok im at a loss i have absolutely no idea why this is failing
[03:05] <Lathiat> i extract the archive, the preinst script works fine, why would apt get me a sub-process pre-install script failed?
[03:12] <Sepheebear> Lathiat: the only solution that worked for me was to patch the script and install the new deb
[03:14] <Lathiat> hrm indeed
[03:14] <Lathiat> interesting
[03:14] <Lathiat> i just removed the preinst script
[03:15] <Lathiat> the weird part is that the preinst script works fine before i go to install the package
[03:15] <Lathiat> oh well
[03:15] <Sepheebear> yeah i stuck a debdiff up on bugzilla but it doesnt seem to work in every case
[03:16] <Lathiat> i saw that
[03:18] <Sepheebear> there's got to be another solution though
[03:21] <sivang> Lathiat: you had that dir alerady and it still faild?
[03:22] <Lathiat> sivang: yes
[03:22] <Lathiat> which makes no sense to me, even running the preinst manually worked fine
[03:28] <sivang> weird. btw the bug report talks about breezy -> dapper, it also happen on hoary -> dapper
[04:34] <slomo> elmo: please sync passepartout from debian/unstable... ubuntu changes can be dropped... thanks :)
[05:06] <Mez> who has access to bugzilla to change the default assignee for a package ?
[05:06] <mvo> Mez: I can do this, what package?
[05:06] <Mez> katapult :d
[05:07] <Mez> Assignee set to mez@ubuntu.com QA to kubuntu-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com
[05:09] <psusi> people are allways asking how to mount their windows partition... shouldn't hal and gnome-volume-manager automount them for you?  if so, why don't they for so many people?  if not, is there a reason, or has it just not been done?
[05:09] <tseng> man pmount
[05:09] <tseng> read the POLICY section
[05:10] <mvo> Mez: done
[05:10] <thesaltydog> psusi I would never want to have my win partition automounted!
[05:10] <Mez> mvo : cheers
[05:10] <tseng> the hal/g-v-m/pmount stack is intended entirely for removable media
[05:10] <psusi> thesaltydog: why not?
[05:10] <mvo> Mez: please test for typos etc :)
[05:10] <tseng> you can override the behaviour by putting user mountable entries in fstab
[05:11] <Mez> ...?
[05:11] <psusi> yea... but that question and answer comes up every day on the forums
[05:11] <thesaltydog> because I need it only when there is some file to share, and for that I created a VFAT partition (automounted by fstab).
[05:11] <psusi> seems like it would be nice to just have them automount
[05:11] <Mez> mvo : :D http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/post_bug.cgi
[05:13] <psusi> so I'm wondering... is there a good reason NOT to have them automount?
[05:13] <thesaltydog> psusi are you meaning the NTFS partition?
[05:14] <psusi> thesaltydog: generally... yea... but really any partition
[05:14] <thesaltydog> if you have a removable media, it IS automounted. Fixed partitions can be automounted with fstab entry. So just edit your fstab.
[05:15] <psusi> I know this... but average users don't want to do that, and ask and are told that answer every single day
[05:15] <tseng> so make it an FAQ or something.
[05:15] <psusi> you should also be able to get them to be auto mounted by gnome-volume-manager by adding them to /etc/pmount.allow
[05:15] <thesaltydog> tseng, +1
[05:16] <tseng> ... or by adding them to fstab
[05:16] <thesaltydog> psusi, g-v-m is for removable devices
[05:16] <psusi> tseng: it's in several FAQs, people still ask ;)
[05:16] <tseng> psusi: then that is their problem, I think
[05:16] <psusi> thesaltydog: why ONLY removable devices?  It is perfectly capable of auto mounting hard drives too... so why shouldn't it?
[05:16] <tseng> why would i want to mount /var from another os
[05:17] <thesaltydog> read the policy section in man pmount. I haven't wrote it.
[05:17] <tseng> and where would it go?
[05:17] <psusi> if you have a seperate /var partition in another os and boot into ubuntu, it would go somewhere like /media/hda7
[05:18] <tseng> because the users who cant google for mounting windows know what hda7 maps too
[05:18] <psusi> thesaltydog: I understand that... my question is WHY?  it is easy enough to override that policy and allow the hard disks to be auto mounted... this seems like it would be a good thing to me... so I am asking, why isn't it?
[05:18] <tseng> seriously, this doesnt seem like a problem if its already widely documented
[05:18] <psusi> tseng: when they open it and see all their windows files... they are happy
[05:18] <tseng> yes
[05:19] <tseng> highly discoverable
[05:19] <psusi> iirc, when I installed ubuntu on a system with two drives, the setup process did configure the second drive in /etc/fstab automatically so it showed up on the desktop... but if you add the drive later, it doesn't "just work"
[05:19] <thesaltydog> psusi, and when they write their first file on the NTFS partition they will be MORE happy :-)
[05:20] <psusi> thesaltydog: then they will be told it is read only... and when they ask why, there's a good answer... but at least they can read...
[05:21] <thesaltydog> if theu can read, it's easy to copy and paste an fstab entry!
[05:21] <psusi> no, they can read their files I meant
[05:21] <thesaltydog> from the FAQ
[05:21] <psusi> they still seem to have a hard time reading the FAQ ;)
[05:22] <thesaltydog> I believe it is not safe.
[05:22] <psusi> hrm... under what circumstances could be be unsafe?
[05:23] <thesaltydog> writing on the NTFS partition
[05:23] <psusi> you can't write to NTFS partitions, the driver is read only
[05:23] <thesaltydog> you have to make it read-onlu into the fstab
[05:24] <psusi> no.. the driver only supports read only mode
[05:24] <psusi> you can compile it with limited write support, which is actually safe, but of very little functionality, but the ones ubuntu distributes are compiled read only
[05:26] <psusi> and if auto mounting might not be safe, maybe g-v-m could prompt the user when a new disk is installed?  then they could decide if they want to mount it, format it, etc... and it would "just work"
[05:42] <shackan> hi, maybe it's not the right place, but what would I need in order to do a full recompile of ubuntu ?
[05:44] <shackan> a friend of mine wants to compile it for amd64, I do know there are binaries available already, but he has got his reasons
[05:44] <hyperactivecrond> err... I can login to launchpad but I can't login to the wiki... it says my password is wrong...
[05:44] <jsgotangco> >
[05:44] <jsgotangco> hmmm? we have an amd64 CD!
[05:45] <hyperactivecrond> i just created my account today 
[05:45] <shackan> jsgotangco, I said I know
[05:45] <jsgotangco> ahh he's hardcore then
[05:45] <zul> er...i think you want gentoo then
[05:46] <hyperactivecrond> eek! gentoo
[05:47] <shackan> I repeat, it is not for me, anyway, is it just possible to compile ubuntu from scratch ?
[05:47] <mjg59> shackan: Not trivially, no
[05:47] <zul> not really
[05:47] <shackan> let's keep gentooisms away, please
[05:47] <shackan> mjg59, why not ?
[05:47] <mjg59> shackan: Because (a) there's no infrastructure to do so, and (b) there are circular build depends
[05:47] <jsgotangco> shackan, you're better off doing it from scratch
[05:48] <hyperactivecrond> linux from scratch, or sourcemage, or *shudder* gentoo
[05:48] <jsgotangco> gentoo's not so bad really, you get to learn a lot
[05:48] <mjg59> shackan: With (a) and (b) being due to (c) (there's no real point in doing so)
[05:48] <shackan> mjg59, so how do your buildservers work ?
[05:49] <robertj> wowzers, the pastebin script is the best thing since sliced bread
[05:49] <mjg59> shackan: Ubuntu was bootstrapped from Debian
[05:49] <hunger> jsgotangco: But only since gentoo usually fails in some place or another.
[05:49] <jsgotangco> true
[05:49] <hunger> jsgotangco: You do not learn more by sitting through endless compiler sessions (if everything works).
[05:49] <mjg59> shackan: As for the initial Debian port - it was done by hand (since it only had to be done once)
[05:50] <jsgotangco> hunger, yes let's skip that part tee hee
[05:50] <dilinger> jsgotangco: slackware's where it's at, if it's learning you're after
[05:50] <hunger> jsgotangco: Agreed:-) Let's not waste energy on gentoo when not using it;-)
[05:51] <psusi> can't you just apt-get source all the packages and build them, then install them with dpkg?  very time consuming, but possible no?
[05:51] <mjg59> psusi: Yes, but that's not "from scratch"
[05:51] <dilinger> there's nothing like the feeling of recovering a system after a (by-hand) botched glibc upgrade
[05:51] <robertj> dilinger: also known as "restore from backups"
[05:52] <dilinger> pfft.  backups are for weenies!
[05:52] <jsgotangco> lol
[05:52] <psusi> I guess it depends on how you define "from scratch"... I'd say formatting a hard drive, starting with debootstrap, then compiling all the packages is prety "from scratch" ;)
[05:53] <mjg59> Heh
[05:53] <psusi> dilinger: is it something like recovering a system by hand after an MBR gets botched up?
[05:53] <psusi> ;)
[05:53] <shackan> mjg59: let's suppose I want to compile ubuntu for a not-supported arch (I DO know there's debian for that and that you do not support other archs, it is just an *example*) so, how would one do ?
[05:54] <psusi> dd + emacs hexl-mode == fun times
[05:54] <mjg59> shackan: You build stuff by hand until the circular build depends are satisfied
[05:54] <dilinger> psusi: it's a bit more difficult; imagine if your MBR had config files scattered around /usr and /etc, and tied in with your compiler
[05:54] <mjg59> Then you start feeding things into pbuilder
[05:55] <psusi> dilinger: outch....
[05:55] <mjg59> But since there's not really any architectures that Linux usefully runs on and Debian doesn't...
[05:55] <shackan> yap, I said it was an example, thanks
[05:56] <mjg59> But that's /why/ there's no infrastructure to do it.
[06:00] <shackan> well, there has to be an infrastructure to do it :D you wouldn't be able to build ubuntu in the first place otherwise
[06:01] <dilinger> psusi: you get libc fixed, but then your compiler no longer works.  you fix your compiler, but everything c++ based is suddenly broken..
[06:01] <dilinger> psusi: it's lots of fun :)
[06:02] <mjg59> shackan: Uh. No. We started from Debian.
[06:03] <hyperactivecrond> is it true that we have a new installer?
[06:06] <shackan> mjg59: ok, but now you have some sort of infrastructure on you own :D
[06:06] <dilinger> ok, so it would appear that openswan decides whether to use klips or netkey based upon the existence of /proc/net/ipsec_version and /proc/net/pfkey, respectively
[06:06] <dilinger> er, ECHAN
[06:08] <mjg59> shackan: Not really, no
[06:08] <mjg59> Individual packages are built whenever a new source package is uploaded
[06:08] <mjg59> But there's no requirement to be able to start from scratch
[06:22] <hyperactivecrond> err i can't login to the wiki but i can login to launchpad
[06:23] <hyperactivecrond> any ideas?
[06:23] <hyperactivecrond> why i cant? it says wrong password
[06:23] <thesaltydog> hyperactivecrond, wiki account is not the same as launchpad's one.
[06:24] <hyperactivecrond> thesaltydog: *sigh* where do i sign up for the wiki then
[06:25] <thesaltydog> mmhh maybe I'm wrong. To register to the wiki you should register to launchpad. I was wrong because I have registered to the wiki before launchpad was up.
[06:26] <hyperactivecrond> if i login with my launchpad account in the wiki it says 'wrong password'
[06:26] <hyperactivecrond> i just created my new account today
[06:27] <thesaltydog> your cookies are enabled, right?
[06:27] <hyperactivecrond> thesaltydog: yes...
[06:27] <thesaltydog> once logged on launchpad, are you not able to edit a wiki page?
[06:28] <thesaltydog> maybe you should let the systems synchronized. Wait untile tomorrow..
[06:28] <hyperactivecrond> It says 'edit' but it doesn't say logged in as Christophercmolik
[06:29] <thesaltydog> but if you press on edit, the system lets you get in?
[06:29] <hyperactivecrond> yew
[06:29] <hyperactivecrond> ys
[06:29] <hyperactivecrond> yes*
[06:30] <thesaltydog> click on UserPreferences on right-top and fill it.
[06:31] <hyperactivecrond> it's not here
[06:31] <hyperactivecrond> there*
[06:32] <Mez> mjg59, you're tech board right ?
[06:33] <hyperactivecrond> it says my wikiname in the userpreferences page but if i type in my launchpad pass it wont work
[06:34] <thesaltydog> try waiting at least 24 hourse from registration..
[06:34] <hyperactivecrond> ok... i'll do that
[06:35] <mjg59> Mez: Yeah
[06:35] <Mez> mjg59, do you remember the whole fiasco about iFolder ?
[06:36] <mjg59> Mez: I remember the iFolder discussion, yes
[06:37] <Mez> well, I dont know if theres been any update since then on this side of thigns - but IFolder's now free, open source and GPL (all of it)
[06:37] <Mez> is it ok for me to proceed with packaging it and shoving it in universe?
[06:37] <mjg59> If nobody else is working on it, then of course
[06:38] <Mez> mjg59, I dont know of anyone else is :D and well - It's been an agreement between the iFolder devs and I for a long time for me to do it
[06:39] <mjg59> Well, sure - go ahead
[06:39] <Mez> cool :D
[06:39] <HiddenWolf> heh. Half the team is on vacation, and yet the -changes list is buzzing. :)
[06:41] <\sh> HiddenWolf: cleaning up the rest
[06:43] <zul> hunger: its the thought i can do it better than you can but i dont know where to start
[06:43] <hunger> zul: Yes, it must be something like that.
[06:48] <hunger> Ubuntu is *WAY* easier to install and way faster, too.
[07:05] <psusi> I realized that when I installed it on my cousin's computer... he kept asking me things like "don't we need to download the network drivers?" and "don't we need to download the video drivers?"
[07:05] <psusi> nope... ubuntu just works... he thought that was cool...
[07:05] <hunger> psusi: Yeap... it never took me that long to install anything. Any I even have paid for that provoledge:-(
[07:06] <psusi> I nearly smashed my grandma's computer last week I got so pissed at XP home edition... I had set up her account to be non administrative so she couldn't virus up the whole machine...
[07:07] <psusi> she couldn't use the recycle bin... ok, no problem I thought... need to give her write access to the recycler directory... YOU COULDN'T DO IT!~
[07:07] <hunger> psusi: I am trying to install the XP that came with my computer without ruining my linux.
[07:07] <psusi> XP home hides the security tab in explorer... an XP pro machine at work hid it by default too but the GPO snapin let me reanble it... XP home has no GPO snapin
[07:08] <psusi> so not only did they hide what I needed that used to work just fine, they even hid the way to unhide it
[07:08] <hunger> psusi: So far I have ruined 6 CD-RWs trying to build the install CD that was ommited in favour of some stupid recovery CDs that clean up the whole HD.
[07:09] <psusi> hell, I ended up attempting to use the cacls program from the command line to set the permissions... it doesn't have a quarter of the functionality it should, and for some reason when I asked it to change perms on "." from inside the recycler directory, it instead changed them on c:\windows... oh boy was I pissed
[07:10] <hunger> psusi: I feel your pain!
[07:10] <psusi> how do you ruin a cdrw?  you can just erase it?
[07:10] <hunger> psusi: Aehm... not RW, the other kind.
[07:10] <psusi> yea... these days dell doesn't ship the cds... they jsut have a ghost image on another partition on the drive that you can use to restore the system to it's factory default state
[07:11] <psusi> ohh... just cdr?  life is easier when you use a cdrw ;)
[07:19] <hyperactivecrond> in 2day's dapper installation iso, the timer doesn't work for teh bootsplash screen
[07:20] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, it may have been disabled
[07:20] <hyperactivecrond> poss/probably
[08:40] <tseng> jdub: you're my osnews hero!
[08:40] <hunger> dylan_:  Most linux distris are more secure by default then windows is by default.
[08:41] <hunger> dylan_: Having said that: You can make linux insecure just as you can make windows secure.
[08:42] <hunger> dylan_: Mostly because linux encorages "limited users" for everyday work more thouroughly then windows does.
[08:42] <Treenaks> hunger: still.. if you download malware which knows about (gk)sudo
[08:43] <Treenaks> hunger: how many "idiot users" will blindly enter their password?
[08:43] <hunger> Treenaks: Sure. But that is more then viri normally have to tackle in windows.
[08:43] <Treenaks> hunger: still something to think about
[08:44] <hunger> Treenaks: Of course viri for linux are possible, it is just a little harder to write them.
[08:45] <hunger> DAMN. I am talking on the wrong channel again! Sorry for that.
[08:46] <hyperactivecrond> is OEM mode done as of 2day's cd?
[08:47] <hyperactivecrond> dapper
[08:50] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, yes
[08:51] <hyperactivecrond> ... how does one use it? 
[08:51] <marcin> hello sorry to bother - because it's propably #ubuntu question - unfortunately no help from #ubuntu and my question is related to development
[08:52] <marcin> I compiled gnome with jhbuild
[08:52] <marcin> and I wanted to run my two desktop simultaneously
[08:52] <marcin> gnome-desktop from dapper on 7-th console and cvs/jhbuild gnome on 8-th
[08:53] <marcin> I uncommented line in [servers]  section in /etc/gdm/gdm.conf
[08:53] <marcin> but unfortunately it didn't work
[08:53] <marcin> has something changed in dapper or can it be a bug?
[09:29] <\sh> doko: hope you have a nice christmas :)
[09:30] <\sh> s/have/had/
[09:30] <hyperactivecrond> how does one use oem mode for dapper/
[09:35] <HiddenWolf> hm, it should be on the install cd as an option
[09:37] <hyperactivecrond> HiddenWolf: yes it is but it is configured in the preseed dir, yes?
[09:37] <HiddenWolf> I haven't used it myself
[09:38] <hyperactivecrond> ...
[09:38] <HiddenWolf> I'll have to pead no clue on this one.
[09:38] <HiddenWolf> plead
[09:39] <hyperactivecrond> ...
[09:41] <hyperactivecrond> is this used the way the debian installer does things/
[09:47] <HiddenWolf> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/OEMInstaller?highlight=%28OEM%29
[09:47] <HiddenWolf> hyperactivecrond, that's the specification
[09:54] <hyperactivecrond> thx HiddenWolf 
[10:13] <hunger> pitti: I hope you do not mind me assigning another trival pam-mount bug to you.
[10:13] <hunger> pitti: Another one line change to allow the use of /dev/disk/by-whatever.
[10:39] <sistpoty> lamont: could you please clear vice from dep-wait? should be fixed now