[12:14] <mdke> know a good rss reader?
[12:30] <Burgwork> mdke, I use blam, but I have heard liferea is half decent
[12:35] <mdke> i couldn't get blam to add rss feeds :(
[12:35] <mdke> i think that was dapper tho
[12:39] <mdke> ah yeah that works very nicely
[01:25] <Burgwork> mdke, I think mono is broken in dapper
[01:32] <GnuKemist> hello
[01:32] <Burgwork> salut GnuKemist 
[01:33] <GnuKemist> Burgwork, salut to you too =)
[01:33] <Burgwork> GnuKemist, what brings you here today?
[01:34] <GnuKemist> Burgwork, just came to chat and see if you guys saw my modifications to the Doc News issue
[01:34] <GnuKemist> guess I should remove the Brazilian portuguese version from the wiki
[01:34] <Burgwork> I wouldn't quite
[01:34] <Burgwork> yet
[01:34] <GnuKemist> Burgwork, k... will hold on
[01:34] <Burgwork> jerome or mdke are the best people to ask about translations
[01:35] <GnuKemist> Burgwork, cool... the Desktop Team seemed to have liked my job with their first issue
[01:35] <GnuKemist> Burgwork, the Brazilian community also appreciated being able to read it in their native tongue
[01:36] <klepas> moin
[01:36] <Burgwork> salut klepas 
[01:36] <Burgwork> all these new faces
[01:37] <klepas> i popped in here a few times a fair while ago
[01:37] <OgMaciel> ;)
[01:37] <klepas> now that I've taken a peak at that doc you guys have so far, i think i might help out
[01:37] <Burgwork> klepas, excellent. Here is your shovel
[01:37] <OgMaciel> hehe
[01:38] <klepas> :)
[01:42] <Burgwork> klepas, what do you have experience  wiht? The best way to start writing docs is to document what you have done already
[01:42] <Burgwork> remember to abstract it and write as if the reader knows very little
[01:42] <Burgwork> emphasis GUI over CLI
[01:44] <mdke> evening all
[01:44] <OgMaciel> mdke, evening
[01:44] <mdke> Burgwork, check out https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LVMOnRaid, some funny stuff
[01:45] <mdke> {i} I said boot off of a LIVE CD. Do not boot your system with both drives hooked up. All kinds of bad things will happen, and you will be sad. Maybe your data will get toasted, maybe not. Bad things I say.
[01:45] <Burgwork> yes, I saw that
[01:45] <Burgwork> going to get need to reign in the language  on that
[01:46] <mdke> awww
[01:46] <mdke> welcome klepas
[01:48] <Burgwork> anyway, I am leaving work now
[01:48] <Burgwork> cya all
[01:48] <OgMaciel> Burgwork, later
[01:49] <mdke> bye
[01:49] <mdke> OgMaciel, thanks for your edits on the News page
[01:49] <OgMaciel> mdke, pleased to be of help
[01:50] <mdke> couple of things
[01:50] <mdke> OgMaciel, when you edit a wiki page, it's very important to insert a comment in the box before you save the page
[01:50] <mdke> that way, people can see easily what is being done
[01:50] <OgMaciel> mdke, gotcha... will do that...  =)
[01:51] <mdke> cool
[01:51] <mdke> otherwise, I might revert a couple of language things, but no big deal :)
[01:51] <mdke> thanks for your contribution :)
[01:51] <OgMaciel> no prob...  =)
[01:51] <OgMaciel> my pleasure
[01:51] <OgMaciel> mdke, I was thinking of translating an article I wrote on setting up Network Manager to english...  Would that be helpfull?
[01:52] <OgMaciel> it's got screenshots of every step too
[01:52] <mdke> that sounds great
[01:52] <mdke> is there any documentation already on it?
[01:52] <OgMaciel> mdke, not that I know...
[01:53] <klepas> Burgwork: i haven't done any real doc work
[01:53] <klepas> I'm coming in over to check out what the doc team is up to, from the art team :)
[01:53] <OgMaciel> mdke, is there a list of available docs somewhere?
[01:54] <OgMaciel> mdke, nm  =)
[01:54] <mdke> OgMaciel, wiki search
[01:54] <OgMaciel> mdke, exactly... hehehe
[01:54] <mdke> network manager website
[01:54] <OgMaciel> mdke, came up with a few pages
[01:54] <mdke> maybe not docs tho
[01:55] <mdke> klepas, if you want to get involved and have any trouble, let us know =)
[01:56] <klepas> mdke: sure thing
[01:57] <klepas> i'll start off just going through http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/
[01:57] <klepas> proof-reading :)
[01:57] <mdke> rock!
[01:58] <klepas> mhh, docbook certainly does look easier than C does :P
[01:58] <mdke> it's pretty easy yeah
[02:38] <KingBahamut> evening all
[02:46] <klepas> mmh
[02:46] <klepas> http://doc.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/desktopguide/C/ch01.html#introduction
[02:46] <klepas> could someone find the line that reads: "However, a number of people are not computer fanatics and may find themselves in need of additional support."
[02:46] <klepas> would computer fanatics be the applicable term/label in this case?
[02:47] <klepas> I would rather have placed perhaps 'guru' or something similar
[02:50] <mdke> experts?
[02:51] <klepas> yea
[02:51] <klepas> just fanatics... doesn't seem like the best term
[02:54] <poningru> I think computer experts is best
[02:56] <klepas> yep
[02:56] <klepas> could one of you guys change it?
[02:56] <mdke> sure, if you like
[02:57] <klepas> mdke: still a bit new to the doc stuff :)
[02:57] <mdke> otherwise, you can send a patch with all your suggestions to the mailing list
[02:57] <klepas> to do that i would need to grab an SVN copy of the documentation right?
[02:57] <mdke> that's right
[02:58] <klepas> alrigty
[02:58] <mdke> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamGettingStarted is the best place to start,
[02:58] <klepas> is there a program i can use to edit the content in WYSIWYG?
[02:58] <mdke> afaik, not a free one, no
[02:59] <klepas> mmh
[02:59] <klepas> docbook uses xml?
[02:59] <mdke> docbook is a type of xml
[02:59] <klepas> would be nice if it were latex
[03:04] <mdke> I'm not familiar with that
[03:07] <klepas> LaTeX
[03:07] <klepas> let me find the wp page
[03:07] <mdke> np
[03:07] <klepas> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LaTeX
[03:08] <mdke> i know what it is, just not how to use it
[03:08] <klepas> ahh, ditto :P
[03:08] <klepas> nice thing it has a WYSIWYG editor
[03:08] <klepas> well, there is one
[03:10] <klepas> here's one of them: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TeXmacs
[03:11] <klepas> and the KDE app is called Kile
[03:11] <klepas> IDE for LaTeX
[03:41] <jsgotangco> hey rob1 
[03:41] <jsgotangco> how's things?
[03:41] <Burgundavia> salut jsgotangco 
[03:41] <jsgotangco> hey Burgundavia 
[06:59] <poningru> anyone around?
[06:59] <poningru> I was looking through the to do list
[06:59] <poningru> do we really need a thunderbird page?
[06:59] <Madpilot> what's on it?
[07:00] <Burglaptop> poningru: no, not really
[07:00] <Burglaptop> poningru: unless there is one fromt eh forums you can adapt
[07:00] <Burglaptop> poningru, Madpilot: do the instructions on this page! https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting
[07:01] <Madpilot> what, actually restart my machine? :P
[07:01] <Burglaptop> yes, dammit
[07:01] <Madpilot> hmm... bootchart isn't found in Synaptic?
[07:02] <Burglaptop> in dapper main
[07:02] <Madpilot> I'm still running Breezy - what depends does it have?
[07:03] <Madpilot> hmm... http://packages.ubuntu.com/dapper/admin/bootchart shows large numbers of depends - I think I'll pass
[07:03] <Burglaptop> ok
[07:04] <jsgotangco> bootchart is easy to grab in dapper
[07:10] <rob1> hi jsgotangco 
[07:12] <Madpilot> is "wiki.kubuntu.org" just a straight mirror of wiki.u.c, or something different?
[07:17] <klepas> Madpilot: yes i think so :)
[07:18] <Madpilot> it's a mirror?
[07:23] <Burglaptop> Madpilot: just a redirect, same as wiki.edubuntu.org
[07:24] <Madpilot> OK - didn't even know it existed until just now :P
[04:33] <hyperactivecrond> i can do the kubuntu administrator's guide if you want me to...
[04:33] <hyperactivecrond> is ChrisPeterman in here?
[04:34] <hyperactivecrond> ok app.net
[04:34] <hyperactivecrond> app. not
[04:38] <hyperactivecrond> do you think that kyral needs help with the ubuntu installation guide?
[05:12] <hyperactivecrond> To get an idea of current member's work , have a look _here_   --- On the main Docteam page, the link is a dead link. Just thought you wanted to know...
[05:12] <hyperactivecrond> Can I join the sounder team?
[05:12] <jsgotangco> where is this?
[05:13] <jsgotangco> there is no sounder team
[05:13] <jsgotangco> its just a list
[05:13] <hyperactivecrond> http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/community/teams/documentation
[05:13] <hyperactivecrond> aah
[05:13] <jsgotangco> well this is the docteam chanel
[05:14] <hyperactivecrond> the dead link is in the bullet point that says http://www.ubuntulinux.org/community/community/teams/documentation
[05:14] <hyperactivecrond> oops
[05:15] <jsgotangco> this is a terribly old page
[05:15] <hyperactivecrond> oh.
[05:15] <jsgotangco> it still has enrico
[05:15] <jsgotangco> heh
[05:15] <jsgotangco> the core members you see on that page aren't active anymore or have focused on other teams
[05:15] <hyperactivecrond> oh.
[05:16] <jsgotangco> Burgwork, we really need to edit the webpage heh
[05:17] <hyperactivecrond> how does one join the 'sounder team list'? i'd like to get involved with the official ubuntu docs
[05:17] <jsgotangco> hyperactivecrond, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocumentationTeam
[05:17] <hyperactivecrond> thx jsgotangco 
[05:17] <jsgotangco> we currently have https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects
[05:18] <hyperactivecrond> yes.. i'd like to help ChrisPeterman with the installation guide if he needs help
[05:19] <hyperactivecrond> or the Kubuntu Administrator's guide.. i'll do that if you want to un-deferr that
[05:20] <jsgotangco> hmmm
[05:20] <hyperactivecrond> how does one become an official docteam member?
[05:20] <jsgotangco> it would be nice to know the toolchain for instance
[05:20] <jsgotangco> we work in svn using docbook
[05:21] <hyperactivecrond> ok
[05:22] <jsgotangco> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamStepByStepRepository
[05:22] <jsgotangco> once you get the sources, it should be a walk in the park =)
[05:23] <hyperactivecrond> jsgotangco: ok but it says one has to become an 'offical' member to make changes... how does one do this/
[05:23] <hyperactivecrond> oh whoops didn't read the whole page
[05:24] <jsgotangco> hyperactivecrond, you'll need upload rights to svn to make direct chnages but you can make patches and submit to list
[05:24] <jsgotangco> while you don't have commit
[05:24] <hyperactivecrond> ok thankx
[05:25] <hyperactivecrond> err... the getting-started.xml page of kubuntu's desktop guide has nothing in it (https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos/trunk/kubuntu/desktopguide/C/)
[05:27] <hyperactivecrond> i'm probably just stating the fact the the desktop guide isn't done.
[05:28] <jsgotangco> we haven't really done in-depth writing in kubuntu but expect changes from jjesse when he comes back from holiday
[05:28] <jsgotangco> at the moment, i jsut review the current work
[05:29] <hyperactivecrond> x crash :\
[05:29] <jsgotangco> duh
[05:32] <hyperactivecrond> heh...
[06:06] <Burgwork> jsgotangco, that page needs to die
[06:19] <hyperactivecrond> which page?
[06:22] <jsgotangco> i gotta sleep good night
[06:53] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, the one that lists old doc team people
[06:53] <hyperactivecrond> yes?
[06:55] <hyperactivecrond> what about it
[06:56] <Burgwork> it needs to be redone as it lists people who haven't been on the doc team since dec 2004
[07:02] <hyperactivecrond> yes... i'
[07:02] <hyperactivecrond> 've heard
[07:02] <hyperactivecrond> so?
[07:06] <Burgwork> we (the doc team) don't have write access to that page
[07:06] <hyperactivecrond> oh.
[07:06] <Burgwork> so we canna fix it
[07:06] <hyperactivecrond> i see
[07:12] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, you done any bash scripting>?
[07:13] <hyperactivecrond> Burgwork: some.. why?
[07:13] <Burgwork> 	for line2 in `cat ~/`'$line'`clicks`
[07:14] <Burgwork> I need the shell to expand $line before it passes it to cat
[07:14] <hyperactivecrond> define expand
[07:14] <Burgwork> $line is a line from a file
[07:14] <hyperactivecrond> ok
[07:15] <hyperactivecrond> alright... hold on a sec
[07:15] <hyperactivecrond> the tab is to be converted to how many spaces?
[07:17] <hyperactivecrond> burgwork: ?
[07:17] <Burgwork> yep?
[07:17] <Burgwork> not convert
[07:18] <Burgwork> for instance $line is actually say "dsn"
[07:18] <Burgwork> so I want it to do `cat ~/dsnclicks`
[07:21] <Kyral> I think you can do it inline
[07:22] <Burgwork> Kyral, how? my bash foo is sadly limited
[07:22] <Kyral> like cat ~/$(line)clicks
[07:22] <Kyral> I mean I used the date command inline to generate part of a filename for irclog maintenance scripts
[07:23] <Kyral> tar --remove-files -czf /home/kyral/irclogs/Undernet-$(date +%Y.%m).tgz /home/kyral/irclogs/Undernet/
[07:23] <Burgwork> I use that elsewhere is this script
[07:23] <Kyral> like that
[07:23] <Burgwork> but that doesn't work
[07:23] <Burgwork> I don't need line the command, I need line the variable I have defined in my bash scripts
[07:23] <Kyral> yah
[07:23] <Kyral> I know lol
[07:24] <hyperactivecrond> expand actually takes tabs and makes them a number of spaces.
[07:24] <hyperactivecrond> is this what you mean by 'i need a line expanded' Burgwork 
[07:24] <Burgwork> yes, I also realize that. I am speaking about expand in the variable sense.
[07:25] <hyperactivecrond> define expand then
[07:34] <Burgwork> ok, got is working
[07:35] <Burgwork> I need $(cat $line"click")
[07:35] <Burgwork> which expands $line to its value before passing it to cat
[08:30] <hyperactivecrond> what is dapper's version #?
[08:30] <Kyral> 6.04
[08:30] <hyperactivecrond> thx kyral
[08:31] <Kyral> Dapper+1 will be 6.10, Dapper+2 will be 7.04, etc
[08:35] <hyperactivecrond> kyral: i'm working on a basic beginning of the guide
[08:35] <Kyral> mkay
[08:38] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, which guide?
[08:38] <Kyral> I swear there is GUI Installer
[08:38] <hyperactivecrond> installer
[08:38] <Kyral> he decided to help me on it lol
[08:38] <hyperactivecrond> Kyral: not done yet
[08:38] <hyperactivecrond> the installer
[08:38] <hyperactivecrond> it's on low priority
[08:39] <hyperactivecrond> ..and not in today's cd...
[08:39] <Kyral> Flight 2 doesn't have it?
[08:39] <hyperactivecrond> nope.
[08:39] <Burgwork> there is a GUI installer, it is coming in January
[08:39] <Burgwork> so I would hold off on any install guide
[08:39] <Kyral> Then how are people all bitching about it already on hte Devel list lol
[08:39] <Burgwork> that is gfx boot
[08:39] <Kyral> ah
[08:40] <Burgwork> a graphical chooser thingy
[08:40] <hyperactivecrond> h/o i have a pic of it
[08:40] <Burgwork> what needs work is documenting the oem installer
[08:40] <Kyral> Yah in January I'll be back at school and be able to abuse VMWare to work on it
[08:40] <Burgwork> I havne't gotten around to doing it myself
[08:40] <hyperactivecrond> http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a389/ccmolik/snapshot2.png
[08:40] <Kyral> you mean the Curses thing?
[08:41] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, that is gfxboot
[08:41] <hyperactivecrond> yes
[08:41] <Burgwork> Kyral, we need to document for a potential oem how to install Ubuntu
[08:42] <Kyral> like for selling computers with it pre-installed?
[08:42] <hyperactivecrond> we both need svn access though...
[08:42] <Burgwork> yes
[08:42] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, svn access will come with patches
[08:42] <Kyral> hmm
[08:42] <hyperactivecrond> yes i no...
[08:42] <Kyral> so basically mass deployment...
[08:43] <Kyral> I seem to be slamming into this problem more and more
[08:44] <hyperactivecrond> is oem mode done?
[08:45] <Kyral> I don't know anything about OEM mode..I work mostly with MOTU and the Forums community
[08:55] <hyperactivecrond> I have a docbook file(http://pastebin.com/481966) with some errors(http://pastebin.com/481968) could someone help me with these errors?
[09:10] <hyperactivecrond> hold on... 1 error
[09:10] <hyperactivecrond> fixed
[09:12] <hyperactivecrond> another error fixed
[09:14] <hyperactivecrond> wait... i think i've got all of them fixed... waiting for db2html to finish
[09:15] <hyperactivecrond> yes! it worked!
[09:16] <hyperactivecrond> wait.. 1 more problem hold on a second
[09:18] <hyperactivecrond> alright i see what I did wrong
[09:19] <hyperactivecrond> *yes*
[09:19] <hyperactivecrond> it workes.
[09:22] <hyperactivecrond> http://69.214.139.26/~chris/
[09:23] <hyperactivecrond> ^^ docbook source and in the dir ubuntuguide is the finished html for starters
[09:31] <hyperactivecrond> kyral: apprarently oem stuff is in the preseed dir
[09:31] <hyperactivecrond> on the iso
[09:32] <Kyral> ah
[09:55] <hyperactivecrond> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuDownUnder/BOFs/OEMInstaller?highlight=%28OEM%29         Kyral : the specsw
[10:04] <nickrud> hi all. I've been pretty much out of touch with you all in the doc team recently (I'll claim primarily time constraints).
[10:06] <nickrud> I'm gonna try to catch up, by looking through the logs here and there on fabbione's archive. Are there any theme's I should be watching for?
[10:06] <Burgwork> not really
[10:07] <Burgwork> we are pretty quiet right now, due to christmas
[10:07] <nickrud> Christmas was the prime time sink I had :)
[10:08] <Burgwork> lots of wiki work recently
[10:10] <nickrud> I've seen some of that, and done a little. What prodded me to check in today, was this gksudo sudo thing.
[10:11] <nickrud> I'm trying to get a grip on that, because it's something that, if true, means a lot of changes.
[11:16] <nickrud> ah, a good theme :) restricted formats is extremely too long.
[11:17] <mdke> yeah, we need to do some decentralisation of some wiki pages
[11:17] <Burgwork> nickrud, actually I like it as it is
[11:18] <Burgwork> but we could split off the java
[11:18] <mdke> Burgwork, things like Java can have their own
[11:18] <mdke> lol
[11:18] <nickrud> java, yes, that
[11:18] <nickrud> is easy
[11:18] <Kyral> yah
[11:18] <Burgwork> I would leave the rest
[11:18] <Burgwork> codecs are really one thing, in most peoples minds
[11:18] <mdke> yes codecs should be in one place
[11:18] <Burgwork> nickrud, mdke Kyral, you lot contributed a recent bootchart recently?
[11:18] <nickrud> this is the breezy page, right?
[11:19] <mdke> i haven't uploaded one, no
[11:19] <Burgwork> nickrud, bootchart or Rf?
[11:19] <nickrud> bootchart. That is something that I have conciously left alone. Got me
[11:19] <Kyral> lol
[11:19] <Burgwork> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/BootCharting
[11:19] <Kyral> Burgwork: I could dig a couple up
[11:19] <mdke> Burgwork is our resident chaser
[11:20] <Burgwork> I consider myself to be an ideas man and an ethusiastic
[11:20] <Kyral> that reminds me....we should have a logrotate like thing for bootchart
[11:20] <nickrud> I still mostly boot breezy. I need this thing to work :)
[11:20] <Kyral> logrotate itself won't work
[11:20] <Burgwork> nickrud, if you have a dapper box, fire one up there
[11:21] <nickrud> well, I have a dapper sort of in a xen box 'out there'
[11:22] <nickrud> a game box I guess you'd call it.
[11:23] <Burgwork> Kyral, BasicCommands
[11:23] <Kyral> yah thats stopping me from doing it right now lol
[11:24] <Kyral> even so its becoming more than "basic commands"
[11:24] <Kyral> People are calling for me to do things on Shell Scripting
[11:25] <Burgwork> then fix it
[11:25] <Kyral> the basiccommands?
[11:26] <nickrud> tldp has some useable docs on bash. 
[11:27] <Kyral> yah
[11:27] <nickrud> I'm thinking, it's hard to write that kind of stuff
[11:27] <Kyral> seems like I tend to translate into newbiespeak :D
[11:28] <nickrud> that's hard too. 
[11:29] <Kyral> I actually think i tried to email the guy who wrote the Basic Commands page...
[11:30] <Kyral> don't think I even got a reply