[12:28] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/EasyWaysToHelpUbuntu [12:28] looking for good things to add to this page === rob1^laptop [n=rob@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=thecore@Toronto-HSE-ppp3775901.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:13] i think we should change the Python tutorial bundled with ubuntu [02:14] imho, Dive into Python isn't a good book for python starters [02:18] "How to Think Like a Computer Scientist: Learning with Python" would be more apropriate [02:24] I like Dive Into Python [02:25] It's a good book [02:29] this book scared me from Python [02:30] i felt that C was easier than python, with this book [02:31] until I found thinkCSpy [02:32] this book really explain all the general concepts of programming [02:33] dive into python is more for python programmers that have some basic knowledge with Python [02:34] def buildConnectionString(params): [02:34] """Build a connection string from a dictionary of parameters. [02:34] Returns string.""" [02:34] return ";".join(["%s=%s" % (k, v) for k, v in params.items()] ) [02:34] if __name__ == "__main__": [02:34] myParams = {"server":"mpilgrim", \ [02:34] "database":"master", \ [02:34] "uid":"sa", \ [02:34] "pwd":"secret" \ [02:34] } [02:35] print buildConnectionString(myParams) [02:35] ^^^ first example of dive into python [02:35] as a first example, it is quite overwhelming [02:37] Burgwork: good ideas on wiki stuff, thx === Madpilot [n=bburger@S0106000d88b9f3db.gv.shawcable.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:39] you start right away with a dictionary, a method, a list comprehention, and a format operator [02:40] it seem to me a little bit to much for a beginner [02:40] s/to/too/ [02:44] just this example was too much for me, and I had a quite good C understanding. Imagine someone that has never programmed ... this example is probably a nightmare === ealden [n=ealden@ipdial-167-29.tri-isys.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [02:47] however, i admit that Dive into Python is a good book for peoples who learned the basic of Python [02:47] it teach good programming habit [02:52] i think it would be a good idea to make our own Python tutorial to be included in Ubuntu === Madpilot wonders who theCore is talking too... :P === theCore wonder too [02:54] to, even... bleh [02:54] Madpilot, to the #ubuntu-doc ghosts that will probably read what I written when they will wake up [02:55] :D [02:55] any comments? [02:55] the 24 people lurking right now? [02:55] yeak [02:55] yeah* [02:56] I'll make a note of "Dive into Python", I've been messing with PHP and want to learn a bit more programming [02:57] my first programming experiences was with PHP [02:57] but as I learn Python, I feel that PHP is useless [02:58] almost everythings that PHP can do, Python can do it better [02:58] is it Python that uses whitespace as part of the actual markup? [02:59] yeah [02:59] it make the code more readable [02:59] interesting - so how you indent things actually matters to how the code work? [03:00] it's a block delimiter [03:00] for example if I want to make a if statement [03:00] I start with [03:01] if var < 0: [03:01] print var [03:01] else: [03:02] print "var is negative" [03:03] print var [03:03] the last statement of the else block wouldn't work [03:04] because the code isn't indented correctly [03:07] which line? the "print var" one? [03:08] in C, you could write if(var < 0) printf("%d", var); else { printf("var is negative"); printf("%d", var); } and the code would work perfectly [03:09] yes [03:10] I was playing with if/else/elseif stuff in PHP last night, actually. Created a little browser-detecting script that told you off if it smelt IE :P [03:10] try it [03:10] that easy enough === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:11] i think it's the first script after the hello world one, in PHP tutorial [03:11] if (strpos($_SERVER['HTTP_USER_AGENT'] , 'MSIE') !== FALSE) { [03:11] echo 'You are using Internet Explorer.
'; [03:11] } [03:11] ?> [03:11] yeah, it is, I was just playing with it and expanding it [03:12] that's the one - I just threw in some elseif loops for other browsers, and a final else to print "I don't know what browser you're using!" [03:12] lol [03:13] what's the command to run a python script? [03:13] I would use this script to a "Get Firefox" icon to bother IE users, but to hide it from mozilla users [03:14] from command line ? [03:14] yeah, from terminal [03:14] python [03:14] "python test.py"? [03:15] it depend of your program [03:15] but it would probably work === wjb [n=Warren@c220-237-173-120.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [03:16] good to know - I'll have to keep playing with that [03:17] but normaly you feed the interpeter by hand [03:18] then when you have a working program, you put it in a script [03:18] you can do the script executable too [03:18] got an online Python tutorial you can recommend? [03:18] by putting #!/usr/bin/env python [03:19] yes [03:19] http://www.ibiblio.org/obp/thinkCSpy/index.htm [03:20] my personal favourite [03:20] thanks - bookmarked for later [03:21] http://docs.python.org/tut/ is cool too [03:21] then i would go for http://diveintopython.org/ [03:26] btw, if you want an demonstration of the python web capatibilities, check the ubuntu website and its wiki, both are written in Python [03:28] Dive into Python is actually in the Ubuntu repos as well [03:30] yea, it's bundled in the default installation in Yelp > Application > Programming [03:30] but, keep this for the end [03:30] this book* [03:31] I saw the "advanced programming" part of the intro blurb, don't worry :P [03:33] "Dive Into Python is a free Python book for experienced programmers." <--- directly extracted from Dive into Python [03:36] so, that why we should change the tutorial to an easier one [03:36] the bundled tut in Ubuntu, you mean? [03:36] yes === GnuKemist is now known as OgMaciel === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Warren@c220-237-173-120.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === rob^laptop [n=rob@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob1^laptop [n=Robert@dsl-202-52-55-156.qld.veridas.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bhuvan [n=bhuvan@ubuntu/member/bhuvan] has joined #ubuntu-doc === bojicas [n=bojicas@217.164.235.196] has joined #ubuntu-doc === OgMaciel is now known as GnuKemist === crimsun [i=nobody@warped.bluecherry.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Warren@c220-237-173-120.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Warren@c220-237-173-120.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #ubuntu-doc [] === rob^laptop [n=rob@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-doc === crimsun [n=crimsun@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ealden [n=ealden@ipdial-167-29.tri-isys.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@203-206-251-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ubuntulog [i=ubuntulo@trider-g7.fabbione.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Topic for #ubuntu-doc: Ubuntu Doc Team - general discussion - backlog at http://people.ubuntu.com/~fabbione/irclogs | Website http://doc.ubuntu.com | Projects on http://wiki.ubuntu.com/DocteamProjects | SVN - https://docteam.ubuntu.com/repos | Please observe the Ubuntu community code of conduct @ http://www.ubuntu.com/community/conduct === Topic (#ubuntu-doc): set by Burgundavia at Tue Nov 8 03:34:59 2005 === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-doc === wjb [n=Warren@c220-237-173-120.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=manicka@203-206-251-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === rob1 [n=Robert@ubuntu/member/rob1] has joined #ubuntu-doc === highvoltage [n=Jono@196.207.41.251] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-206-251-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Belutz [n=Belutz@202.155.151.120] has joined #ubuntu-doc === ealden [n=ealden@ipdial-167-29.tri-isys.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === enrico [n=enrico@debian/developer/enrico] has joined #ubuntu-doc === mhz [n=mhz_chil@pc-252-84-215-201.cm.vtr.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === WaterSevenUb [n=WaterSev@195-23-220-187.net.novis.pt] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === theCore [n=theCore@Toronto-HSE-ppp3775901.sympatico.ca] has joined #ubuntu-doc [07:07] mhz, np [07:07] mdke, ping [07:07] Burgwork: ? [07:08] mhz, making the wiki page [07:08] Burgwork: oooh! [07:08] mhz, got another one on my laptop here to put up. a more indepth helpingubuntu page === mhz is willing to read it [07:11] going to post it soon === poningru [n=poningru@pool-71-243-254-132.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-doc === Mez [n=Mez@ubuntu/member/mez] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:11] Burgwork, pong [08:12] mdke, I am not certain about your merge of the two sections of wiki pages on the news article [08:12] to me one is a "here look at our great work" and the other is "these are new things that might need somework" [08:12] Burgwork, ah, that wasn't clear [08:13] shall I revert the change then? [08:13] ok... [08:13] and https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HelpingUbuntu [08:13] do we really need to put stuff that needs work in the news item? [08:13] yes, because the newsletter has many audiences [08:14] any pages I list are NeedsExpansion, not Cleanup [08:14] hmm [08:14] i had thought of the newsletter as showcasing the new hotness [08:14] the ToDo page is linked there [08:14] so people can see what needs work [08:16] I don't want to mention any crappy pages there, but I think we can safely mention those pages which look good but are not complete [08:16] alright [08:17] thus I will not mention https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Installation/LVMOnRaid [08:18] lol [08:18] do we have a WikiStyleGuide ? [08:18] WikiGuide [08:19] ah [08:19] any thoughts on HelpingUbuntu ? [08:20] looks good [08:20] some dud links [08:20] yes, I wrote it last night when I was offline [08:21] perhaps link to ubuntu.com/community/participate [08:22] I would rather participate links to the wiki page, actually [08:22] as that participate page doesn't tell you who to contact [08:25] eventually the two pages should become one [08:25] yes [08:25] for now, all we can do is to make sure users see both [08:25] the idea behind helping Ubuntu is not to tell what what specifically can be done but to tell people where they can help [08:26] do you understand what I mean as the difference? [08:26] no [08:26] participate tells people "you can help with X subproject" [08:26] I think that is too much detail [08:27] HelpingUbuntu tells people "X project does X and here is where to find out what to do with them" [08:27] i suppose there is a small increase in detail on the participate page, yeah [08:28] that doesn't really scale [08:28] but in this case, I don't see why detail should be bad [08:28] I mention large subprojects, such as the wiki vs docs [08:28] but specific subprojects are bad [08:28] ie, which specific wiki pages you can edit [08:28] plus it doesn't have one link per section [08:29] I have two links: How to contact and What to do === LaserJock [n=mantha@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:30] i think that one page with a fair level of detail and clear links is better than two pages with varying levels of detail [08:31] participate has a bunch of really useless links that send people to non-Ubuntu pages [08:32] the fact that the page might be bad doesn't mean it has the wrong approach [08:33] anyway, i disagree, i think the links are useful [08:33] which pages? === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:34] LaserJock, ubuntu.com/community/participate [08:34] any links that send the person outside the ubuntu sphere is bad thing, if you are trying to get them to help Ubuntu [08:34] becuase those external pages have no links back to Ubuntu [08:34] Burgwork, i don't understand that [08:35] there are some links to gnome related topics, and lugs, that is about it [08:35] mdke, but those are bad. They are ok on project pages, once the person is hooked, but not on the main "here is how to help Ubuntu page" [08:35] if a person is minded to help Ubuntu, that is what they do [08:36] yes, but it is basically playing bait and switch [08:36] Here is how to help Ubuntu. click on this link. Oh wait, that goes to a non-ubuntu site? WTF. Ok I give up [08:37] i still don't understand that [08:37] instead of "here is how to help ubuntu. Hmm, I like artwork. Hmm, I contact the artwork team. Click on artwork team link. Hmm, here are some projects I can do" [08:37] then the artwork team page says "Art.gnome.org has some ideas/stuff [08:37] "' [08:37] then the person cries and gives up? [08:37] i don't think so [08:38] yes, they do. We have no way of finding out how many people are crying and giving up [08:38] plus the text size on the Ubuntu website makes my eyes hurt and is hard to read [08:38] so the person cries and gives up both ways? [08:39] this person of your sucks [08:39] yours* [08:39] so, with HelpingUbuntu they now know two things: Who to contact and what they are working on [08:39] participate doesn [08:39] t have any of that [08:39] i thought you said there is a link on HelpingUbuntu to the artworkteam page, which links to gnome? [08:39] *in a clear format, I might add [08:39] mdke, I said that the artwork team page can list art.gnome.org as an external resource, if you need help [08:40] like we can list the gnome-doc team as an external resource [08:40] that makes people cry tho [08:40] why? [08:41] < Burgwork> then the artwork team page says "Art.gnome.org has some ideas/stuff [08:41] < mdke> then the person cries and gives up? [19:37:58] < mdke> i don't think so [19:38:31] < Burgwork> yes, they do. [08:41] what I am saying is that if they come to a page on how to help Ubuntu, they don't expect external links that having nothing to do with Ubuntu on them === mdke shrugs and gives up [08:46] Burgwork: i guess i would disagree, if helping (k)ubuntu requires me to go outside sites, like kde or gnome then i will poke around at those sites [08:46] Burgwork: as long as we aren't recomemnding them to go to sites outside of official sties [08:47] jjesse, but how does going to external sites *first* help people help Ubuntu? [08:47] because those sites help Ubuntu [08:47] I have no objections to linking to them on team sites [08:47] just not on the first level "Help Ubuntu" page [08:49] sorry for dropping link all the time, trying to get networking for qemu working :( === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc === sandervanvliet [n=sander@ip51ccf0d1.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl] has joined #ubuntu-doc [08:57] sorry that i keep dropping link, trying to figure out networking for qemu [09:20] huh? https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstituteTheDraftProposal === wjb [n=warren@c220-237-173-120.lowrp1.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc [09:27] whats that? [09:28] no idea, a random wiki page [09:29] the guy is posting the -doc list about his ideas [09:49] his system wouldn't be a bad idea ... === bojicas [n=bojicas@217.164.222.143] has joined #ubuntu-doc === zenrox [n=zenrox@71.115.198.118] has joined #ubuntu-doc [10:06] theCore, he needs to remove about half the words from hsi proposal [10:08] half the words .... ?? [10:11] theCore, yes, at random, every third word [10:11] no better yet, every third letter [10:12] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/InstituteTheDraftProposal <-- this is the too wordy proposal I am referring to [10:12] it also needs structure [10:12] and a new name [10:13] there might be good ideas in there but I cannot bring myself to read it [10:14] ah okay, i'm just saying that the idea of making a Ubuntu registry would be good, i don't really care about his syntax [10:14] theCore, if you word your ideas badly, no matter how good they are, nobody will accept them because nobody will read them [10:15] Burgwork, i know, that why I force myself to improve my english [10:16] theCore, my engrish is real good now, after only spaking it fur 18 yers [10:17] ;) [10:18] :) === mdke [n=matt@ubuntu/member/mdke] has joined #ubuntu-doc === manicka [n=grant@203-206-251-126.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #ubuntu-doc === jjesse [n=jjesse@mail.ftpb.com] has joined #ubuntu-doc