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[12:21] <pkern> How's living on the bleeding edge currently? Is Dapper broken or at least barely usable?
[12:24] <Burgwork> pkern, not bad
[12:25] <Pygi> pkern: rather barely usable, then completely broken :)
[12:29] <pkern> Hm. Why isn't linux-image-2.6.15-10-k7 installable. Was that uploaded today?
[12:31] <Burgwork> pkern, file a bug on it. this is not a support channel
[12:31] <pkern> Burgwork: Sorry.
[12:32] <tepsipakki> not built yet, i believe
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[12:33] <pkern> tepsipakki: Oki. The package lists are already updated, though. So linux-image-k7 refers to it. ;) I'll just wait.
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[12:50] <jdthood> Anyone have any clue as to why /proc/1/environ contains no PATH setting?
[12:50] <zul> environment variables?
[12:59] <mjr> because it hasn't inherited any?
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[01:05] <rob1> does anyone know why the glade-gnome package is missing dependencies?
[01:05] <rob1> in breezy
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[01:20] <dereks_> who do i talk to about sbackup?
[01:20] <jdthood> zul, mjr: I think that the reason is that the init program in the initrd doesn't set PATH.
[01:21] <Burgwork> dereks_, sivang 
[01:21] <dereks_> Burgwork: thanks
[01:22] <dereks_> sivang: ping
[01:23] <Burgwork> dereks_, he lives in Israel, so it is early early morning there
[01:24] <dereks_> Burgwork: ok 
[01:24] <dereks_> thanks
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[03:15] <Bonzodog> Hi guys, anyone awake
[03:15] <Bonzodog> ?
[03:15] <Bonzodog> have a querie about 64 bit build
[03:16] <Bonzodog> was talking to devels in gnustep, and they have said that the sid64 tree has been altered to remove /lib32
[03:17] <Bonzodog> so has that alteration made it into dapper?
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[08:27] <pef> hello
[08:27] <desrt> good morning
=== Mez pokes desrt 
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[09:09] <pef> mm flight-2 installer neither find my cd-rom nor my first hard drive, what should I provide in my bgu report ? dmesg output ? /var/log/syslog ?
[09:09] <Lathiat> pef: did it work in breezy or flight 1?
[09:10] <pef> Lathiat: yes, I installed breezy without problems
[09:10] <Lathiat> pef: if so please find the driver its missing then include relevant lspci output and see if a manual modprobe gets it goign to see if its a detection or driver support issue
[09:10] <pef> Lathiat: when I got prompt to enter drive path, I put /dev/hdfoo and it works
[09:11] <Lathiat> like the device comes up
[09:11] <Lathiat> flight2 just doesnt see it
[09:11] <Lathiat> ?
[09:12] <pef> after "uncompressing the kernel..." I got "hde: ERROR , PORTS ALREADY IN USE"
[09:12] <pef> Lathiat: yes
[09:12] <Lathiat> mm interesting
[09:12] <Lathiat> just include as much info then like lspci/dmesg and that info
[09:12] <Lathiat> also cat /proc/partitions
[09:13] <pef> should I have to test with flight 1 too ?
[09:14] <Lathiat> may be usefull to include relevant dmesg parts from flight1, tho i dunno
[09:14] <Lathiat> i'd file all above info
[09:14] <Lathiat> may get asked more?
[09:16] <pef> I will try with flight1 too
[09:18] <pef> Lathiat: I can send you dmesg right now, I had to download isos and this can get a few minutes :)
[09:19] <Lathiat> pef: dont bother sending it to me :)
[09:19] <Lathiat> i wouldnt be much good with it :P)
[09:19] <Lathiat> just file a bugzilla report?
[09:19] <pef> of course :)
[09:20] <pef> in dmesg output I have a "ide2: i/o ressource not free", arg
[09:34] <sivang> dereks_: pong
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=== Mez writes a script that makes a new window for "ping"s
[09:43] <sivang> dereks_: I think you already tried to ping me, please email me so we won't miss each other next time , I'm sivan __AT__ ubuntu DOT com
[09:43] <sivang> Burgwork: ping
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[09:59] <Mez> hmm - does anyone here use scott's signkey.pl?
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[10:16] <sivang> Mez: I use Kinnison's scripts.
[10:17] <Mez> sivang as long as you dont use dsilvers :D
[10:17] <Mez> lol
[10:17] <sivang> hehe
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[10:19] <sivang> Mez: well, I guess having him around me when I installed and configured them helped :)
[10:20] <Mez> lol
=== Mez woulda had no idea what to do
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[11:30] <pef> Lathiat: http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=21707 I hope I haven't missed something
[11:32] <Lathiat> pef: looks good
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[02:14] <thesaltydog> I can't find any clear documentation to help myself in understanding how "launchpad-integration" works on Help Menus...
[02:14] <tseng> sivang: ^ can you give him a hint? :)
[02:21] <thesaltydog> tseng,  found. liblaunchpad-integration!
[02:21] <tseng> heh yes
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[02:45] <slomo_> elmo: please sync pygame, meta-gnome2, gazpacho from debian/unstable, service-discovery-applet, gnome-user-share, ipod-sharp, libipoddevice from debian/experimental... ubuntu changes can be dropped
[02:46] <tseng> elmo: will lighttpd be pulled into ubuntu automatically? new in debian unstable
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[03:28] <Lathiat> gah locales is screwing up again
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[03:49] <BrianB04> Heylo all
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[03:53] <fabbione> elmo: if you have time and you are working, network-console source is in main/Sources.gz, but the files are still in universe = FTBFS
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[04:00] <thesaltydog> Could anyone  make an evaluation of baobab and bum for a possible inclusion in main?
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[04:06] <Bonzodog> Is there anyone here dealing with the 64 bit version of Dapper?
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[05:20] <sivang> TheMuso: hi, are you sorted with LPI ?
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[05:29] <mjg59> pitti: My mmc card (appears as /dev/mmcblk0p1) doesn't appear to automount
[05:30] <Treenaks> why does it appear as that?
[05:31] <mjg59> Because it's an mmc card
[05:31] <Treenaks> mjg59: my MMC cards show up as /dev/sd[a-z] 
[05:31] <Treenaks> or is this a special controller?
[05:31] <Lathiat> depends on the driver i guezz
[05:32] <Bonzodog> i'm curious...anyone here running Dapper 64?
[05:32] <Treenaks> Bonzodog: I am, at work
[05:32] <Lathiat> not i
[05:32] <Bonzodog> doe sit have a /lib32 dir?
[05:33] <Treenaks> Bonzodog: I can't reach my work machine from here :)
[05:33] <Lathiat> Treenaks: heh i vpned my work machine to home over port 443 with openvpn :)
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[05:33] <Treenaks> Lathiat: oh I could do some tricks (it's running sshd, I can reach a server from which I can ssh to it)
[05:33] <Treenaks> but I can't be arsed :)
[05:33] <Lathiat> heh
[05:34] <Bonzodog> hrm..acording to a debian devel I spoke to the sid 64 lib setup has changed
[05:34] <Bonzodog> currently, breezy has 3 lib dirs
[05:34] <mjg59> Treenaks: That's because yours are appearing as usb mass storage
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[05:34] <Bonzodog> /usr/lib, /usr/lib32, /usr/lib64
[05:35] <Treenaks> mjg59: yeah, and my crappy TI slots don't work
[05:35] <Bonzodog> but apparantley, the /lib32 dir is no longer in the sid tree, so debian now conforms to the standard
[05:36] <mjg59> Treenaks: Should do soon
[05:36] <mjg59> (The SD/MMC, at least)
[05:36] <Bonzodog> all 32 bit libs go in /usr/lib
[05:36] <Bonzodog> and all 64 bit libs go in /usr/lib64
[05:36] <jsgotangco> happy new year guys
[05:36] <Treenaks> mjg59: wow.. I was told it wouldn't be possible for the forseeable future
[05:36] <Bonzodog> but would it be possible to alter dapper like that at this stage?
[05:36] <mjg59> Treenaks: Hmm. Actually, that depends. As long as it's a *21 part rather than a *20
[05:36] <Treenaks> mjg59: lspci will tell me?
[05:37] <mjg59> Bonzodog: Ubuntu is working closely with Debian on making amd64 sane
[05:37] <mjg59> Treenaks: Yeah
[05:37] <Treenaks> 0000:02:06.3 Mass storage controller: Texas Instruments PCIxx21 Integrated FlashMedia Controller
[05:37] <Bonzodog> yeah, cause I'm working on GNUStep development
[05:37] <Bonzodog> and ubuntu 64's current setup is causing big problems
[05:38] <mjg59> Bonzodog: Mithrandir is probably the person to talk to about this, but he's still on holiday
[05:38] <Bonzodog> hrm..will ask again soon
[05:38] <Bonzodog> when he's back
[05:38] <\sh> moins gentlemen
[05:38] <mjg59> Next week, probably
[05:38] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: hmm?
[05:39] <mjg59> Oh, right
[05:39] <Bonzodog> look above
[05:39] <Bonzodog> dapper64; has it removed /lib32?
[05:39] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: no, not if you install ia32-libs.
[05:40] <Bonzodog> hrm
[05:40] <Bonzodog> see, that is causing probs trying to build sane gnustep appas
[05:40] <Bonzodog> in 64 bit
[05:40] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: why do you care about 32 bit stuff if you're on amd64 and working on gnustep?  That's free software, so just use lib.
[05:41] <Bonzodog> beacuse there is quite a bit of work to be done in gnustep-core
[05:41] <Bonzodog> to make it 64 bit usable
[05:41] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: debian uses /emul/ia32-linux, iirc.
[05:41] <Bonzodog> so it still relies on seeing 32 bit libs in /usr/lib
[05:41] <mjg59> Gnustep isn't 64-bit clean?
[05:41] <Bonzodog> not yet
[05:42] <mjg59> That's, uhm, neat.
[05:42] <Bonzodog> it's being worked on
[05:42] <mjg59> I don't think it's reasonable for software to assume that /usr/lib contains 32-bit libraries
[05:43] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: anyway, Debian has 64 bit stuff in /usr/lib on amd64.
[05:43] <mjg59> It's untrue for several architectures
[05:43] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: why do you care where libraries are, btw?
[05:44] <Bonzodog> someone in gnustep I was talking to yesterday reckoned the sid tree had been changed to so that it met 'standards'
[05:45] <Bonzodog> where by there is only 2 lib dirs
[05:45] <Bonzodog> I need the lib dirs in the correct place to build the gnustep core
[05:45] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: there's no standard for what goes into which library directory, apart from /lib/ld-linux.so.2 containing the 32 bit dynamic linker and /lib64/ld-linux-x86-64.so.2 being the 64 bit one.
[05:45] <Mithrandir> why?
[05:46] <Mithrandir> just use the dynamic linker.
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[05:46] <zul> hey BenC 
[05:47] <Bonzodog> see, at current, /lib64 is symlink of /lib
[05:47] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: yes
[05:47] <Bonzodog> the thing is I need to run a script that automatically looks in lib for ia-32 bit libs
[05:48] <Bonzodog> I could alter the script
[05:48] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: again, why do you care?
[05:48] <Bonzodog> because gnustep core will not build
[05:48] <Mithrandir> fix the build rules to not care, then.
[05:49] <mjg59> Bonzodog: If you're building a 32-bit application, the linker will automatically look in the right place
[05:49] <mjg59> If the software is trying to be smarter than the linker, then the software is probably wrong
[05:50] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: note that libraries will start to move to another directory in not too long, so any fixes you do now will have to be redone later.
[05:51] <Bonzodog> thats what I want to know - is there going to be an alteration before dapper final in april?
[05:51] <mjg59> Bonzodog: /Why/ does the build system want to know this?
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[05:52] <Bonzodog> hold on...gnustep is complicasted..it has it's own build tools
[05:52] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: it uses gcc, doesn't it? :-)
[05:52] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: yes, quite likely.
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[05:55] <Bonzodog> http://mediawiki.gnustep.org/index.php/Installation_of_32bit_GNUstep_on_64bit_Linux
[05:56] <Bonzodog> there is a script you have to run there to install the core env
[05:56] <Bonzodog> it has it's own make tools
[05:56] <Bonzodog> for it's own apps
[05:57] <Mithrandir> we don't support building random 32 bit applications on amd64.
[05:57] <Mithrandir> there's no development libraries, for, say, libX11.
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[06:00] <Bonzodog> so it won't be possible to install gnustep under ubuntu 64 at the moment
[06:00] <Bonzodog> ?
[06:00] <Bonzodog> I know there is a 64 bit version in the repos, but i'm not sure where it's come from
[06:01] <Mithrandir> from the source packages available alongside the .debs.  I hope so, at least. ;-)
[06:01] <BenC> zul: hey
[06:01] <Mithrandir> sure, it's probably possibly to install it on ubuntu amd64, just not compile it there.
[06:03] <Bonzodog> because i would like to build a more recent version of gnustep from the nightly build
[06:04] <mjg59> Bonzodog: I'm afraid the answer is probably "Fix Gnustep"
[06:04] <mjg59> We've had Linux on 64-bit platforms (and with 64-bit libraries in /usr/lib...) for over 10 years
[06:05] <Bonzodog> yeah, theres a lot of work to be done on getting gnustep sorted for 64 bit
[06:05] <Bonzodog> unforunately, i'm not a coder
[06:06] <Bonzodog> just trying to build the env from current code
[06:16] <Mithrandir> neither Debian nor Ubuntu provides the 32 bit libraries, so you might have more luck just using a 32 bit chroot.
[06:16] <Bonzodog> hrm...
[06:16] <Bonzodog> I have got the ia32 libs
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[06:17] <Mithrandir> yes, but that doesn't include the header files, etc.
[06:17] <Bonzodog> i have FF1.5 working using 'linux32' 
[06:18] <Bonzodog> with flash
[06:18] <Bonzodog> but not in a chroot
[06:20] <Mithrandir> I guess you didn't compile it yourself?
[06:21] <Bonzodog> no, it's the pre-built version off the site
[06:21] <Bonzodog> installed in a programs dir in my home dir
[06:21] <Bonzodog> RAOF on the forums came up with it
[06:21] <Bonzodog> as he runs 64 bit
[06:22] <Bonzodog> but it does work
[06:22] <Bonzodog> the only other alteration you have to make is to install a non-standard theme for FF1.5
[06:27] <Bonzodog> http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=90106
[06:28] <Bonzodog> interesting way of doing it, but it works
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[06:30] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: sure, that works, but we can't support random hacks people come up with.
[06:30] <Bonzodog> I know that
[06:31] <Mithrandir> Bonzodog: also, compiling and running programs are two different matters, you seem to want to compile gnustep, and the easiest way to do that is with a 32 bit chroot.
[06:31] <Bonzodog> it would be nice to see the devels in the forums a bit more often :)
[06:31] <Bonzodog> yeah, i know what you mena
[06:31] <Bonzodog> mean
[06:32] <Bonzodog> to compile will need a 32bit chroot
[06:32] <Mithrandir> I can't spend my time browsing the forums, I'm far too busy already.
[06:33] <Bonzodog> hrm...best off seeing what kind of timeline we are looking at to get gnustep 64 bit compatible
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[07:15] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync log4cxx from unstable, ubuntu override ok, thx.
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[07:35] <Riddell> elmo: please move metabar to morgue, it's now included in konq-plugins
[07:43] <\sh> well..gentlemen...will see you all in 2006 :) now it's time to shutdown the pbuilders and I wish you all a happy new year 2006 :) have fun, party all the time :) 
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[07:56] <Q-FUNK> who maintains ubuntu-sounds nowadays?
[07:57] <Q-FUNK> the current person listed as Maintainer is a non-existant user at canonical.  e-mail bounced.
[07:58] <Mithrandir> Q-FUNK: unsure, infinity (adam conrad) was going to do something about it, but I guess you could just mail ubuntu-devel
[07:59] <Mithrandir> Q-FUNK: please do allow a couple of days for people to catch up on email after the holidays, though
[08:00] <Q-FUNK> Mithrandir: aye.  that's standard procedure.  nothing new there :)
[08:00] <sivang> \sh_away: happy new year Stephan
[08:01] <Q-FUNK> ah.  awaiting moderation.
[08:02] <Q-FUNK> another question:
[08:02] <Q-FUNK> could someone please sync rus-ispell from unstable?  ;)
[08:02] <sivang> Q-FUNK, Mithrandir : happy new year guys
[08:02] <sivang> Q-FUNK: you're a canonical employee ?
[08:02] <Q-FUNK> happy new year!
[08:03] <Q-FUNK> sivang: nope
[08:03] <Q-FUNK> would be nice if I were, though :)
[08:03] <sivang> thanks :) same goes to you guys. Mithrandir : have you and Simira planned anything for new year's ?
[08:04] <sivang> Q-FUNK: same here, or for all of us , hehe :)
[08:05] <Mithrandir> sivang: we're heading up to a friend of mine who lives up the street in two-ish hours.
[08:05] <Mithrandir> sivang: so a bit of partying, but none of us are really in the party modd tonight, so.. :-)
[08:06] <Q-FUNK> Mithrandir: why not?  new year has no particular menaing in your neck of the wood or?
[08:07] <Mithrandir> Q-FUNK: it's a new year, but we're kinda tired of parties, having gone to such for the last week and a half or so
[08:07] <Q-FUNK> or already too exausted from the x-mas ones?  oh... hehe :)
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[08:09] <Robot101> Q-FUNK: new year has no particular meaning in any neck of the woods :P
[08:09] <Q-FUNK> ;)
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[08:13] <Q-FUNK> low and behold.  it seems that cups-pdf might finally work with the low-priviledge cupsys of ubuntu.  nice.
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[09:10] <mjg59> What would be great would be if:
[09:10] <mjg59> The service discovery applet knew which protocols you could handle by looking at installed applications, rather than having a bunch of checkboxes with opaque names
[09:10] <mjg59> And if applications could register their ability to support protocols when installed
[09:11] <mjg59> Lathiat: I'm looking at you
[09:11] <tseng> mjg59: rock on.
[09:11] <mjg59> daf is just writing a plugin that adds a menu to Epiphany that lists local websites
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[09:30] <FireRabbit> mjg59, arent protocols part of the mime stuff?
[09:30] <FireRabbit> if so, the applet could use that
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[11:22] <psusi> woohoo!
[11:23] <psusi> I got hal/g-v-m/gvs to automount and unmount a packet write mode cdrw just by modifying the hal fdi policies
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[11:41] <Bonzodog> if a package you pull from the repos is 'NOT AUTHENTICATED' and the maintainer is listed as someone at debian, does that mean it doesn't actually have an ubuntu maintainer?
[11:41] <Bonzodog> i.e wmaker
[11:43] <Bonzodog> the packages work and install, buit they often require small hacks to get them working properly.
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