=== Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-motu [12:11] Later folks [12:11] cya [12:14] Mithrandir: someone is working on some really sexy stuff for openbox :) [12:15] Mithrandir: gradient themes that look as nice as metacity === pkern [n=pkern@debian/developer/pkern] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Seveas [n=seveas@ubuntu/member/seveas] has joined #ubuntu-motu === crimsun [n=crimsun@66.248.140.183] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Arrogance [n=aks@ottawa-hs-209-217-66-2.d-ip.magma.ca] has joined #ubuntu-motu === JohnnyMast [n=rave@cpc2-cosh5-5-0-cust84.cos2.cable.ntl.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu === Kyral [n=kyral@ubuntu/member/kyral] has joined #ubuntu-motu [01:55] Yanno, the more I read about Python and examine it, the more I like it [01:58] Python is neat. [01:58] Then I should learn PyGTK [02:02] Kyral: I highly recommend it. Pretty neat way to build a GUI app. [02:03] indeed [02:04] Orders of magnitude easier than trying to do it in C [02:05] I haven't tried [02:06] but going through POinters in class made me HATE C [02:06] for great headaches, use wxpython [02:06] lol [02:07] oh yes [02:07] but first I master Python === ajmitch did a project with wxpython [02:10] wxpython gave me the Fear [02:11] I've never used it myself, but PyGlade seems like a good way to get a GUI app happening quickly [02:11] I really don't like RC bugs where I don't know what is breaking, and upstream gets confused as well [02:11] Draw the page, link the actions, run the app, hooray! === trulux [n=lorenzo@unaffiliated/trulux] has joined #ubuntu-motu [02:14] ah that's right, I need to ask for syncs today [02:14] top of the list is php4-sqlite, which you fixed === jcape [i=jcape@71.194.176.102] has joined #ubuntu-motu === slomo_ [n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rikai [n=gtk2@pool-68-238-63-64.port.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:23] pfff [03:23] spam on motu-reviewers [03:23] :( [03:24] get this one in #ubuntu [03:24] Kyral: ? [03:24] < CentHOGG> I heard ubuntu bought debian the other day [03:24] haha [03:24] and Google bought Microsoft, too ? [03:24] ;) [03:24] it was on everyone love lugradio [03:25] oh no [03:25] Actually....that would be good wasn't it... [03:25] or was it everone loves eric raymond [03:25] that must have been that Microsoft gave up the Windows code to Google ;) [03:25] for free ;) [03:25] ;) [03:25] yah right [03:25] and the sky is purple with pink and neon green polka dots [03:25] oh you knew that? [03:26] roflmao [03:26] http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/clique [03:26] that's what you're talking about? [03:26] yes [03:27] yes [03:27] afternoon tseng [03:27] lol [03:27] hi ajmitch [03:27] hi ajmitch [03:27] I think I need to get some conflicts removed from mono-mcs [03:27] since it's been unnecessary for a year or so [03:28] pnet? [03:28] yeah [03:28] I got some weird urge to fix some RC bugs in debian & update it to the latest upstream [03:29] the f-spot one still bugs me === gborzi [n=gborzi@host218-115.pool8249.interbusiness.it] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:36] hello all, is there anyone ? [03:36] gborzi: hello [03:39] I'm a new kubuntu user (1 month), but an old linux one, since 1995. I have made some packages I would like to share. [03:39] sure [03:39] did you make sure they don't exist in ubuntu or debian yet? [03:40] taht's the first thing to check gborzi [03:41] Some of the packages are not yet in ubuntu, other are based on new version of the upstream software. how should I made the packages available ? I' reading the ubuntu wiki on how to become a member/manteiner/developer, but I'm confused. [03:41] Sorry, I made a too long message. [03:41] did you read about REVU yet gborzi ? [03:42] https://wiki.ubuntu.com/REVU [03:42] I'm reading, but the process is not yet clear. [03:42] revu is the web based system for new universe packages to be included in Ubuntu [03:43] if you want to add your package to Ubuntu, after checking it is not yet available in either Ubuntu (dapper, not breezy) or Debian unstable, you can get added to the REVU keyring and start uploading your packages to REVU [03:43] they will then appear on the list on http://revu.tauware.de/ [03:43] so MOTUs (masters of the universe, the guys mastering the universe stuff in Ubuntu) will review your packages [03:44] So I do not need to became a manteiner/member/etc ? [03:44] and as soon as you get 2 advocacies for a package, up they go ;) [03:44] nope gborzi [03:44] you don't need to be a member to submit packages [03:44] just have a pgp key [03:44] and have it added to the REVU keyring [03:45] siretart: you there? === crimsun_ [n=crimsun@66.248.140.183] has joined #ubuntu-motu [03:45] Ok, I'll look the revu [03:45] crimsun_: hello [03:45] raphink: hi [03:45] :) [03:46] crimsun_: gborzi would like to get new packages in Ubuntu. [03:46] are you able to deal with adding his pgp key to the keyring? [03:46] (his or her, sorry if I was wrong on this ;)) [03:46] I'm a male. [03:46] ok [03:46] :) [03:47] you have a pgp key gborzi ? [03:47] raphink: ajmitch is a REVU admin iirc [03:47] k [03:47] ajmitch was around a short time ago ;) [03:47] Yes, I've made it today. [03:47] I think siretart and ogra are also able to add the keys, if i'm not wrong [03:47] oh, very new key then :) [03:48] did you sign your packages with it? [03:48] you'll need to put it on a keyserver [03:48] only the latest packages. [03:49] I'm very new to the use of pgp keys [03:49] all packages will need to be signed to be uploaded [03:49] gborzi: as ajmitch says, you need to export your key to a keyserver, e.g. mit [03:49] how should I do ? [03:50] gpg --export-key --key-server hkp://pgpkeys.mit.edu $yourkey [03:50] if I remember well [03:50] not totally sure [03:50] check man gpg [03:50] it says: gpg: Invalid option "--export-key" [03:51] --send-keys [03:51] that's the option [03:51] gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys 5921b5d8 [03:51] for example [03:51] :) [03:51] replace 5921b5d8 with your own keyid [03:52] I used the command: gpg --send-key --keyserver hkp://pgpkeys.mit.edu [03:52] It didn't complained [03:52] --send-keys [03:52] raphink: you can use either [03:52] oh ok [03:52] What's the keyid [03:52] ? [03:53] --send-key is not documented in gpg --help [03:53] gborzi: gpg --list-keys [03:53] since you've only got one key, it'll give it your key id [03:54] the command says: [03:54] gborzi: since you said you're using kubuntu, kgpg can be a nice soft to use ;) [03:54] pub 1024D/FE613ED3 2005-12-30 [03:54] uid Giuseppe Borzi [03:54] sub 2048g/276A70FE 2005-12-30 [03:54] FE613ED3 is your key id [03:54] ;) [03:55] ok. And now ? should I go to http://revu.tauware.de/ [03:55] ? [03:55] now you need to get your key added to the keyring [03:55] so you might ask ajmitch nicely to add it ;) [03:56] how can I add the key to keyring ? [03:56] ajmitch will gborzi [03:56] you won't do it [03:56] wait till your key is on the server [03:56] it's not on the keyserver yet, that I can see [03:56] and then he'll addit [03:57] ok, will I receive a notification email ? [03:57] I doubt so gborzi ;) [03:57] not from the keyserver at least [03:58] gborzi: the usual procedure is for you to send a signed message to keyring@tiber.tauware.de asking to be added, after your key is on the keyserver [03:58] http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/henkp/henkp/pgp/pathfinder/stats/FE613ED3.html [03:58] when this page works, your key is up ;) [03:58] raphink: that can take a week or two [03:58] it's not nearly that slow [03:58] hmm [03:59] should only take a night or two [03:59] mhm [03:59] yeah I remember when I updated my key with my new add, it took about a week [03:59] gborzi: please, use gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --send-keys FE613ED3 [04:00] Done. Maybe I'm annoyng you with my questions, but after that ? [04:00] send a signed email to keyring@tiber.tauware.de to ask for an upload account [04:01] this is a good way to keep a record of people asking, and to get your email address [04:01] gborzi: what are you using to send emails ? kmail? [04:01] No, I use mozilla. How can I sign an email ? [04:01] quoting from a mail sent to someone else: [04:01] "An account for revu will be created on your first upload. [04:01] You can then retrieve your password with the lost password-feature of revu1. [04:01] gborzi: you need to set up your email client [04:01] Your login will be your email adress. [04:01] " [04:02] gborzi: search google or the wiki for mozilla configuration for pgp encryption [04:03] iirc, it's enigmail or something named similar [04:03] raphink: ok, I was looking at the mozilla mail client. [04:03] mhm [04:03] http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ [04:03] ajmitch: yes bells a ring here ;) [04:03] although I prefer kmail :) [04:04] enigmail is in ubuntu [04:04] as mozilla-thunderbird-enigmail (if you're using thunderbird) [04:04] I'm installing enigmail for mozilla [04:06] gborzi: [04:06] http://lrcressy.com/linux/mozilla.pdf [04:06] `mini' howto they say [04:06] lol [04:06] `just' 42 pages [04:06] thanks [04:07] or 1.5 M [04:07] you cannot possibly fail with such a tutorial ;) [04:08] A good reading for tomorrow. It's true that one never ends to learn. [04:09] sure we learn everyday :) [04:09] (hopefully) === raphink learned a lot of things on oobase2 today :) [04:09] Among the packages I have made there are xcircuit and scilab. [04:10] I don't know these [04:10] These are already in debian, but are quite old. [04:10] they are in ubuntu aswell [04:10] what versions did you package? [04:10] Xcircuit is for drawing circuits, I use it to prepare the examinations. [04:11] the current version is 3.4.10, but that in debian is 3.1.x, about 2 years old [04:11] what are the versions of each app that you packaged? [04:11] we have Version: 3.1.19-1ubuntu1 in dapper [04:11] for scilab is 3.1.1, in debian is still 3.0 [04:12] Version: 3.0-12 [04:12] this is scilab version in dapper [04:12] Why are they so old ? [04:12] which must be debian version anyway, since it's a debian versioning [04:12] gborzi: because they weren't maintained ? ;) [04:13] maybe ! [04:13] there are about 18.000 packages in Debian [04:13] for about 1000 DDs [04:13] DDs ? [04:13] it's hard to get all this maintained and kept up-to-date [04:13] developers ? [04:13] DD = Debian Developer [04:13] yep [04:14] besides these two I have also made: glest (www.glest.org) and RTS game [04:14] when you look at the ubuntu packages, you can see what packages were directly taken from Debian, and which ones were either merged from Debian (with changes) or added to Ubuntu directly [04:14] from the version number [04:14] packages numbered with -X are Debian ones [04:15] xcircuit isn't maintained anymore in debian, perhaps you could do that, gborzi :) [04:15] packages numbered with -XubuntuY are either merged from Debian or created in Ubuntu [04:15] X being the Debian versioning if taken from Debian (X=0 for new packages in Ubuntu [04:15] I know the versioning system. I used XubuntuY for the packages I have made [04:16] ajmitch: did I read on motu-reviewers that someone (you?) was working on making d-mentors similar to REVU so we can upload to it and get new packages in Debian first? [04:16] actually xcircuit might be maintained again soon in debian, looking at the bug [04:16] http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323678 [04:16] Debian bug 323678: "xcircuit -- Draw circuit schematics or almost anything" Package: ITA, Maintainer: wnpp@debian.org raphink: not myself, but womble [04:16] oki === crimsun_ [n=crimsun@cpe-065-188-148-141.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #ubuntu-motu [04:16] for both xcircuit and scilab I made the packages from scratch, so i used 0ubuntu1 === raphink learned about wnpp lately, but didn't complete his bugs :s === raphink thinks the Debian way for new packages is very complicate [04:17] gborzi: :) [04:17] raphink: the 'debian way'? [04:17] what do you mean? [04:17] I'm here [04:17] raphink: Yep, that's me. No idea whether it'll take off yet; I'm evaluating what Debian already has available ({sponsors,mentors}.debian.net) before wading in with yet another option [04:17] ajmitch: I mean filing bugs for the wnpp package and so on [04:17] raphink: when you have that many developers, you need some structure [04:18] womble: I take it you're a DD then ;) [04:18] Indeed I am [04:18] ajmitch: sure [04:18] even we have developed a fair bit of structure, eg with merges [04:18] gborzi: ...err, both of those packages are in Debian [04:18] ajmitch: I just think the whole thing about maintaining packages in Debian is very discouraging [04:18] to me at least [04:18] gborzi: or do you mean you're co-maintaining them? [04:18] raphink: I disagree :) [04:19] I've been learning to package ever since april [04:19] I'm beginning to package properly (or so I believe) [04:19] and yet I need to learn more to get my packages in Debian [04:19] and deal with bug reports [04:19] and find sponsors [04:19] and so on [04:19] yes, that's expected [04:19] it's not the easiest way to contribute [04:19] crimsun_: no, I have remade them, and I was proposing to upload these packages [04:19] debian has a reputation for quality for a reason [04:19] we don't want people to dump packages in & not care about bugs [04:20] Oh my god, dealing with bug reports. It's criminal what they make you do in Debian. [04:20] gborzi: have you discussed your changes with the maintainers? [04:20] ajmitch: hmm yes but doesn't that discourage some people from contributing sometimes ? [04:20] womble: today is a good day, I've got 3 RC bugs that will be killed on upload :) [04:20] crimsun_: no, I haven't. [04:20] Yeeeehah! [04:20] gborzi: cos using a different debian/ base == (maintenance nightmare)++ [04:20] Stomp those RC bugs [04:21] raphink: it can, but the alternative is group maintenance, which is also happening [04:21] ajmitch: especially in ubuntu I'd say [04:21] it seems there's more group maintenance in Ubuntu than in Debian 'core' [04:22] (seems to me that is) [04:22] well yes, we are a team per se. [04:22] :) [04:22] crimsun_: I don't want to become the nightmare of anyone, only share some package [04:23] this connection is driving me nuts [04:24] gborzi: and it's appreciated that you share your work :) [04:25] gborzi: I think you'll find it more worthwhile to coordinate infrastructure changes with [Debian] upstream [04:26] gborzi: you might work on the package with Debian and then work on syncing/merging them in Ubuntu [04:26] I can propose debian to use newer upstream sources [04:26] s/package/packages/ [04:27] it's a real problem come MoM time [04:27] gborzi: it seems a bug was already filed for xcircuit in Debian [04:27] yay for segfaults [04:27] looks like I won't be uploading this today [04:27] lol [04:27] my fav is the segfault for locate in Dapper === raphink lost his key on this comp and has to wait to be back home to get it back :( [04:28] no signature since two days ago :( [04:28] It's not a bug problem, it's an upgrade problem. Debian uses upstream sources 1/2 years old for scilab and xcircuit [04:28] What's the point in debugging an old code ? [04:28] gborzi: upgrade pb deserves a bug in Debian [04:29] the bug is : version too old. needs upgrade ;) [04:29] and the debugging for this is : upgrade the package ;) [04:29] Or a new package from scratch ? [04:30] gborzi: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=262321 [04:30] Debian bug 262321: "New upstream release available (v3.2.22)" Package: xcircuit, Severity: wishlist, Maintainer: David Z Maze http://bugs.debian.org/262321 [04:31] raphink: see the other bug, http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=323678 [04:31] Debian bug 323678: "xcircuit -- Draw circuit schematics or almost anything" Package: ITA, Maintainer: wnpp@debian.org 3.2.22 new ? current version is 3.4.10 [04:31] It seems that bug wasn't fixed [04:31] gborzi: bug #262321 is more than 1 year old [04:31] An error has occurred. [04:31] and indeed it wasn't fixed [04:31] Ubugtu: go to bed :p [04:33] And if debian doesn't fix, a new package can be made in ubuntu, I hope [04:33] gborzi: the bug ajmitch quoted last says the package is orphaned - i.e. searching for a nice maintainer to adopt it [04:33] gborzi: Ubuntu is nothing without Debian [04:33] we haven't got the manpower Debian has [04:33] and most of the work in Universe is to sync/merge packages from Debian [04:34] and we most likely never will have the manpower that debian has, for good reasons [04:34] Ubuntu improves Debian, and Ubuntu is based on Debian === ajmitch detests CVS, really [04:34] so the best way to get this package upgraded in Ubuntu is to get to be its maintainer in Debian [04:34] OK, so I should propose the new package to debian [04:35] gborzi: you should upgrade the already existing package in Debian [04:35] get a sponsor for it [04:35] and when the package is upgraded in Debian [04:35] A sponsor ? how ? [04:35] merge/sync in to Ubuntu [04:35] ajmitch: More surprising is that there are some people who *don't* detest it [04:35] gborzi: http://people.debian.org/~mpalmer/debian-mentors_FAQ.html [04:35] womble: I know, it's really quite surprising [04:35] http://sponsors.debian.net/ [04:36] womble: btw, are you going to be here for LCA? [04:36] gborzi: since quite a lot of Ubuntu devs are DDs, you might find a sponsor here maybe ;) [04:37] more the main developers, few MOTUs are also DDs [04:37] ok [04:37] OK, but from the previous discussion it seems it is a nightmare to become a DD [04:37] you don't have to be a DD to contribute [04:38] gborzi: you don't need to become a DD (which is a nightmare, really) [04:38] gborzi: you just need to find a DD to sponsor your work [04:38] OK, and after the sponsor ? [04:38] you go on with life, maintaining the package, asking the sponsor to upload updates, etc [04:38] when a DD sponsors your work, the package will get uploaded to Debian [04:39] when it's available you can work on syncing/merging it in Ubuntu [04:39] and having it uploaded by a MOTUs (equivalent to DDs in Ubuntu) [04:39] OK, who wants to sponsor me ? [04:39] for xcircuit ? === raphink is no DD :s [04:41] BTW, I have also packaged keytouch. I have found this program reading the ubuntu wiki, but it's not in dapper [04:41] gborzi: http://sponsors.debian.net to find sponsors [04:41] Although it's mentioned in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Accessibility/NewSoftware [04:42] top of that page say 'software we want to get in'.. [04:42] This page lists software we want to get into the Ubuntu distribution in terms of enhancing the Accessibility features. [04:42] we want to get into ... [04:42] gborzi: so this is a good candidate for REVU imo [04:43] a new package to be added in Ubuntu specificaly [04:44] which is the process for keytouch ? Do I need another sponsor ? [04:44] gborzi: you better upload keytouch to REVU once you're allowed to [04:44] imo that's the best way for this one [04:45] since it's a new package [04:46] gborzi: either way, wait till your key is on the keyservers [04:46] I'll do. Along with glest. Another package I have made is gnokii. In dapper is at 0.6.8, but current version is 0.6.10. [04:46] you won't be able to contribute to either Debian or Ubuntu before this is done [04:46] it's on the keyservers [04:46] ok :) [04:46] And 0.6.8 doesn't work with my C350 [04:48] Good night to everyone and thanks for the answers. [04:49] good night [04:49] time to sleep here too ;) [04:49] remember to send that email to keyring@ [04:50] ajmitch: Yep, I'm going to LCA. [04:50] great [04:51] time for me to wander off [04:56] ajmitch: I'm wondering about something [04:56] if I got a package into Ubuntu with -0ubuntu1 [04:56] and then I get it in Debian as -1 [04:57] should I sync it again as -1ubuntu1 to Ubuntu ? [04:57] if it's the same upstream version? [04:57] :s [05:00] raphink|sleep: I think it should be synced as -1 [05:00] so if I manage to get my package in Debian [05:00] Unless it has Ubuntu-specific bits, in which case you base your new packaging off the Debian -1 and call it -1ubuntu1 [05:00] I'll have to synce them afterwards [05:00] raphink|sleep: At least the first time, yes, I think [05:01] But if the -0ubuntu1 and the -1 are source-identical, then there shouldn't be any problem syncing [05:01] so that proves it's better to get all new packages in Debian, no? [05:01] from a Ubuntu maintainer's perspective, certainly [05:02] hmm [05:02] Ayup. That way you don't have to do anything to get both Debian and Ubuntu love [05:02] so ideally, REVU shouldn't exist [05:03] raphink|sleep: In a perfect world, perhaps. Not in this one, though. [05:03] haha [05:03] well I mean [05:03] packagers should be encouraged to upload new packages to Debian === cyberix [n=cyberix@hoas-fe36dd00-251.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #ubuntu-motu [05:03] rather than ubuntu [05:04] trying to understand as best as possible ;) [05:04] There's some transitions that Ubuntu has gone through that Debian hasn't yet, some maintainers are crap with handling their patches, and sometimes you want Ubuntu-specific branding in the package. [05:05] smack. Got vlc building with firefox-dev. [05:05] hmm [05:05] I still don't get how Debian can be so slow when it's got so many DDs [05:05] slomo_: Someone juat complained on another channel that Debian leaves IPv6-support out when they compilet GNUnet. [05:05] slomo_: Do you know anything about this? [05:05] that's part of the reason it can be slower, raphink|sleep [05:05] and Ubuntu can be ahead with less manpower (although mostly using DDs's work) === crimsun_ goes for dinner === raphink|sleep goes to bed [05:06] bye [05:07] slomo_: Like, if there is a specific reason or, if it is left out just by mistake. [05:11] raphink|sleep: You got it in one -- mostly using DDs work. There's also the fact that a MOTU can wade in and complete a transition with little synchronising, whereas the Maintainer God Lock (Ubuntu's term for it, not mine) means that in Debian you've got to convince a bunch of people that your solution is the right one. === minghua [n=minghua@69-153-139-23.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === freeflying [n=freeflyi@61.190.65.36] has joined #ubuntu-motu === robitaille [n=robitail@ubuntu/member/robitaille] has joined #ubuntu-motu === seth_k_ [n=seth@ubuntu/member/sethkinast] has joined #ubuntu-motu === crimsun [i=nobody@pdpc/supporter/silver/crimsun] has joined #ubuntu-motu === punkrockguy318 [n=lukas@pcp02403042pcs.brdgtn01.nj.comcast.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === bmonty [n=bmontgom@wsip-68-15-230-31.om.om.cox.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === rikai [n=gtk2@pool-68-238-63-64.port.east.verizon.net] has joined #ubuntu-motu === LaserJock [n=mantha@lambda.chem.unr.edu] has joined #ubuntu-motu [06:36] anybody about? [06:36] yep [06:36] nope [06:37] hi ajmitch [06:37] hi Lathiat [06:37] yo [06:37] hey Lathiat, LaserJock [06:37] how's it going? I haven't been on irc for over a week [06:38] neither have I, really [06:38] and my parents dialup is driving me nuts [06:38] 28.8 [06:38] heh [06:38] I just didn't use their computer [06:41] well, I am going to try to get plotdrop to use DESTDIR and see if I can get a new upload today [06:42] it should only take about 30 seconds :) [06:43]