[02:10] <jblack> sivang: Not at that hour
[02:32] <LarstiQ> and this hour is supposedly better? ;)
[03:22] <jblack> Yeah
[04:24] <jamesh> lifeless: do you have any idea what might have gone wrong with cprov's pqm merge that would have reverted those changes?
[05:06] <lifeless> jamesh: if he merged and discarded them, it will back them out when he merges
[05:06] <lifeless> otherwise the only possible cause is a pathological base selection, but I would suspect that last, not first.
[05:08] <jamesh> lifeless: I checked the branches: the branch celso merged had fully merged with rocketfuel to the point before it got merged into rocketfuel
[05:08] <jamesh> lifeless: yet there were differences between celso's branch and rocketfuel with celso's branch merged in
[05:08] <jamesh> (the differences being the backed out code)
[05:09] <lifeless> jamesh: in which case it has to be a base selection issue
[05:09] <lifeless> jamesh: was celsos branch a converted one ?
[05:12] <jamesh> doesn't look like it
[05:15] <lifeless> thats very bizarre then. 
[05:18] <jamesh> I took a copy of celso's branch and was able to pull from rocketfuel into it
[05:18] <jamesh> which showed that the two branches had converged and there were no other revisions merged in between
[07:26] <dilys> Merge to devel/launchpad: [trivial]  migrate-bugzilla-initialcontacts.py script, and some small bugzilla import cleanups (r2950: James Henstridge)
[08:01] <SteveA> good morning dilys 
[08:01] <SteveA> good morning launchpad
[08:01] <SteveA> good morning launchpad people
[08:55] <sivang> good morning SteveA 
[08:58] <SteveA> hello sivan
[09:00] <SteveA> jblack: hello
[09:10] <Mez> jblack: *waves*
[09:16] <jblack> Hi
[09:16] <sivang> jblack: Hi James , It appears I pinged you in the wrong hour :)
[09:18] <jblack> sivang: No problem at all.
[09:18] <jblack> Now that everyone is coming back, I'm back on a normal schedule
[09:19] <sivang> jblack: please correct me if I'm wrong, you're schedule isn't fitted with day and night time over where you are right?
[09:19] <sivang> (e.g. it's flipped)
[09:21] <jblack> Correct. I'm shifted about +10 or so
[09:23] <jblack> I have a steady set of core hours and a set of about 6 hours a day that shift slowly during the week
[09:27] <SteveA> i'm testing the procedure now
[09:28] <sivang> has it went under lifeless's review and ack already?
[09:28] <sivang> jblack: ^^ (recalling you adviced to wait until it's worked out)
[09:28] <SteveA> i think we're waiting for rob to look at it some more
[09:29] <jblack> sivang: No. He's still unburying it himself.
[09:29] <lifeless> I'll do so tomorrow
[09:29] <jblack> unburying himself
[09:32] <sivang> ok , just let me know when you think it can be tested by someone like me.
[09:37] <jblack> Oh, you can bet. :)
[09:37] <jblack> Between your comments, steve's comments, rob shouldn't have much of a problem looking them over.
[09:38] <jblack> But its something we want to do anyways. More eyes make bugs shallow, and a production process modification should always be reviewed first when possible.
[09:38] <jblack> actually, now that I think about it..More eyes don't make bugs more shallow... But there's certainly more perspetive
[09:41] <sivang> heh
[09:42] <jblack> More perspective means more depth perception. More depth means deepr.
[09:43] <jblack> So the old saw is backwards. Many eyes make bugs deep! 
[09:53] <jblack> can a LP dev please email me their sources.list? 
[09:56] <jblack> sivang: your immutable comment...
[09:56] <jblack> That doesn't solve anything, I'm afraid.
[09:57] <jblack> If they can mutate the keyid, they can mutate a reference that we provide as well.
[09:57] <jblack> I think we'll solve that by locking the page down later.
[10:13] <sivang> jblack: k, cool. Btw, is it so that anybody who created a launchpad account can edit any page in launchpad?
[10:14] <sivang> s/launchpad/lanuchpad wiki/
[10:14] <jblack> I believe it is so
[11:57] <sivang> morning carlos 
[11:57] <carlos> hi
[12:19] <cprov> morning guys
[12:42] <matsubara> good morning!
[12:43] <daf> good morning Brazil
[12:44] <SteveA> hi
[12:44] <sivang> morning daf, matsubara 
[12:44] <sivang> matsubara: cool you fixed the spec-already-exists error message, is it already on production?
[12:45] <SteveA> jblack: still around?
[12:50] <matsubara> sivang: I think it is. 
[12:58] <daf> carlos: yo
[12:59] <carlos> daf, hi
[12:59] <daf> can you take another look at bug 26?
[12:59] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 26: "Normal comments duplicated if they are in the .pot file" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Carlos Perell Marn, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/26
[01:01] <carlos> daf, I need to take a look to the source code to answer you
[01:01] <carlos> I will do it this evening
[01:02] <daf> that would be great, thanks
[01:05] <carlos> daf, you are welcome
[01:08] <SteveA> hi carlos 
[01:09] <carlos> SteveA, hi
[01:10] <SteveA> carlos: what do you think of having a voice call, to see where things are up to and what's happening next?
[01:11] <carlos> SteveA, I cannot have it now, I'm going to take a shower and go out for lunch with a friend, could we have it after lunch? (in about 3 hours or so)
[01:11] <SteveA> carlos: sure, that's fine.  i will be here
[01:11] <carlos> SteveA, I will ping you then
[01:11] <SteveA> ok
[01:12] <daf> jordi: can you take a look at bug 6293?
[01:12] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6293: "inkscape translation template" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6293
[01:14] <jordi> daf: I guess the breezy package was buggy.
[01:14] <jordi> let's check dapper
[01:15] <daf> thanks
[01:17] <jordi> daf, there you go
[01:17] <jordi> the source package lacks a .pot
[01:17] <jordi> daf: should I reassign to inkscape?
[01:18] <jamesh> daf/carlos: I submitted bug 6034 before christmas: looks like the additions to the PO file format in the next gettext might require some Rosetta datamodel changes
[01:18] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6034: "msgctxt support" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6034
[01:18] <jamesh> oh.  daf did see it
[01:18] <jamesh> ignore me
[01:18] <carlos> jamesh, oh, I didn't know there were changes....
[01:18] <carlos> jamesh, thanks for the notice!
[01:20] <daf> jordi: I guess so
[01:21] <jordi> daf: can you do it after I comment?
[01:21] <jordi> daf: done
[01:25] <daf> jordi: done
[01:32] <jordi> daf: k
[02:06] <lbm> jordi: i'm the maintainer of gnomebaker in launchpad, but i am not allowed to upload individual po's
[02:07] <jordi> lbm: how so?
[02:07] <jordi> lbm: if you want ot do it one by one, you nede to go to the individual language urls and use the "upload" link
[02:07] <lbm> jordi: that's what i'm trying to do
[02:07] <jordi> lbm: if you want to do all at once, you need a tarball, but for now it'll need to include the pot file too
[02:08] <lbm> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+series/main/+pots/gnomebaker/zh_CN/+upload
[02:08] <jordi> (this will be fixed I think)
[02:08] <lbm> "Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page."
[02:08] <lbm> i can't really use lauchpad actively if this doesn't work
[02:08] <jordi> really?
[02:09] <jordi> carlos, daf: why is lbm getting this?
[02:09] <jordi> I'm gessing this is happening because you're not a member of the Chinese team and the translation perms are closed
[02:09] <jordi> an exception should be granted to the product owner though
[02:10] <lbm> yes, i closed it to get work from committed users
[02:10] <jordi> lbm: would uploading a tar+zh_CN.tar.gz work in this case? (as a workaround)
[02:11] <jordi> lbm: maybe you wnt to set it to Structured though
[02:11] <lbm> jordi: i couldn't see what structured mode gave me
[02:11] <jordi> in this case, if a language has no ubuntu team assigned, anyone can contribute. But for languages with a team assigned, you can only get translations from team members
[02:11] <jordi> so in general it's a good idea for your case
[02:12] <jordi> err, when I said tar+zh_CN.tar.gz, I meant a tar.gz with pot+zh_CN.po
[02:12] <lbm> yes :)
[02:13] <lbm> last time bz2 gave me an error, tar.gz worked fine though
[02:13] <jordi> there's a bug filed about bz2
[02:13] <lbm> okay, great
[02:13] <jordi> it's actually a bug in python!
[02:14] <lbm> "If 'Reviewed', then anybody can make suggestions but only the designated translators can edit or confirm translations."
[02:14] <lbm> but no 'Reviewed' in the list
[02:14] <lbm> and no description of 'Structured'
[02:14] <jordi> where is this?
[02:15] <lbm> +changetranslators
[02:16] <lbm> i need to select '(no value)' in the translation group selection for your idea to work, right?
[02:16] <lbm> oh, nevermind
[02:17] <lbm> ubuntu translators was linked to all language-specific groups, i forgot
[02:17] <jordi> ok, so Reviewed = Structured
[02:17] <jordi> this is a trivial fix, I'll report
[02:20] <daf> it's reported already
[02:21] <jordi> daf, carlos: https://launchpad.net/products/rosetta/+bug/6383 is trivial
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6383: "Reviewed vs Structured" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6383
[02:21] <jordi> oh damn.
[02:21] <daf> bug 5852
[02:21] <jordi> I missed it
[02:21] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 5852: "+changetranslators advertises non-existent "Reviewed" choice" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Carlos Perell Marn, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/5852
[02:21] <daf> :)
[02:21] <daf> sorry, I was a bit slow there
[02:22] <daf> by the way, what's happening with bug 2022?
[02:22] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2022: "iso-codes is not available for breezy" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Jordi Mallach, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/2022
[02:22] <daf> maybe the same as inkscape?
[02:23] <jordi> 98% chances
[02:23] <jordi> it's always this
[02:23] <daf> are you able to reassign such bugs to the source package?
[02:23] <jordi> nope
[02:23] <jordi> or I wasn't
[02:23] <daf> :/
[02:24] <daf> "Request fix: ... In Distribution"
[02:24] <daf> that's the link I use
[02:24] <jordi> (medium priority)  	
[02:24] <jordi> 680. No translation template for tin 
[02:24] <jordi> so dapper and iso-codes?
[02:24] <daf> if you can't reassign, we should work out why
[02:24] <daf> you should be able to
[02:24] <jordi> let me try
[02:24] <jordi> dapper + iso-codes?
[02:25] <daf> ?
[02:25] <jordi> what to say in that "distribution" link
[02:25] <jordi> asks me for a distro and a source package
[02:25] <daf> oh
[02:26] <daf> ubuntu + iso-codes
[02:26] <jordi> oh
[02:26] <daf> while you're at it: bug 3954
[02:26] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3954: "Tamazight needs adding to Rosetta" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Carlos Perell Marn, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/3954
[02:27] <jordi> daf: so it got added to iso-codes, but not removed from rosetta
[02:27] <jordi> is this ok?
[02:28] <daf> what I do in this situatoin is to Reject the rosetta one
[02:28] <daf> perhaps it's a bug that you can't reassign a bug from a product to a package
[02:30] <jordi> hm
[02:31] <jordi> daf: done
[02:31] <jordi> daf: replied to 3954
[02:31] <daf> great, thanks
[02:34] <lbm> i get a whole lot of timeouts today
[02:37] <SteveA> lbm: do you have the OOPS codes from them?
[02:37] <lbm> SteveA: only the last one: OOPS-A646
[02:38] <lbm> OOPS-A647
[02:38] <lbm> i tried 4-5 times, still no luck
[02:39] <lbm> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+series/main/+pots/gnomebaker/da/+translate
[02:47] <kiko> hello
[02:47] <kiko> how is everyone?
[02:49] <SteveA> hi kiko.  how are you?
[02:49] <sivang> kiko dude!
[02:50] <SteveA> lbm: i see what the problem is.  it is bug 5751
[02:50] <Ubugtu> Error: I cannot access this bug.
[02:51] <SteveA> lbm: which is a private bug.  basically, it is a performance issue in the code.  Carlos is working on a fix for it.
[02:51] <lbm> SteveA: okay, i'll try again another day
[02:53] <SteveA> lbm: well... i may be able to make it work now.  i'll try altering a setting to allow longer queries to happen...
[02:54] <lbm> SteveA: great, give me a vink and i'll try
[02:57] <SteveA> lbm: okay, try now
[02:59] <lbm> SteveA: OOPS-B555
[03:00] <lbm> OOPS-B557 also
[03:01] <SteveA> hmm.. i doubled the amount of time it can take.  
[03:01] <SteveA> let's try something different.  carlos is working on the proper fix, but this will take a while, as it involves designing and writing some code
[03:02] <SteveA> but, as an interim measure, we could have a mode where we don't display suggestions
[03:02] <lbm> SteveA: let me know
[03:02] <SteveA> as that is what is taking all the time
[03:02] <lbm> oh :)
[03:02] <kiko> SteveA, that's been suggested before, sounds like a good idea
[03:02] <SteveA> lbm: i can't do much else today, but i'll try to get something fixed soon
[03:02] <lbm> great
[03:02] <kiko> you could disable suggestions by default
[03:03] <SteveA> sure, we can do that until carlos' proper fix is ready
[03:05] <SteveA> lbm: i've just been talking with daf, and we're going to try a quick instant fix
[03:06] <lbm> SteveA: okay, looking forward :)
[03:13] <SteveA> lbm: please try now
[03:13] <lbm> SteveA: works, thanks!
[03:13] <SteveA> great!
[03:15] <SteveA> kiko: i just hacked the template in production, with daf's help.  we have traded suggestions for lack of timeouts.
[03:15] <kiko> cool
[03:15] <SteveA> i'll mail the patch out to the list, for stu to pick up on the next roll out
[03:15] <kiko> will reduce the issue significantly
[03:15] <SteveA> and we can talk with carlos later about how the proper fix is going
[04:09] <daf> is the /+series/foo/+addpotemplate page linked from anywhere?
[04:14] <kiko> I don't think so
[04:17] <sabdfl> hey guys, lp.net is timing out for me, any particular reason?
[04:18] <kiko> sabdfl, network timing out, or site timing out?
[04:19] <sivang> can I report bzr suspected bugs on lp ? or should I just use bugzilla for that?
[04:23] <SteveA> sivang: bzr bugs are tracked in launchpad
[04:23] <sivang> SteveA: ok, thanks.
[04:26] <sabdfl> kiko: site timing out on rosetta translation pages
[04:26] <kiko> sabdfl, was this the issue SteveA and daf were discussing above?
[04:27] <SteveA> many translation pages were timing out.  i've disabled suggestions as a temporary measure to stop pages timing out so much
[04:28] <SteveA> i've discussed with carlos a proper fix, and he's working on it
[04:28] <SteveA> sabdfl: if you get a timeout, please paste the OOPS code.  this allows us to check the tracebacks and other debugging information.
[04:33] <carlos> SteveA, Hi
[04:33] <SteveA> hi carlos.  i'm talking with daf for about 20 minutes more
[04:33] <carlos> SteveA, ok
[04:34] <carlos> SteveA, please, ping me back when you are ready
[05:01] <SteveA> carlos: i've finished talking with daf. i'm going to take a short break and then maybe we can talk#
[05:02] <carlos> SteveA, ok
[05:05] <carlos> I need some help with an SQL query
[05:05] <carlos> daf, can you help me?
[05:17] <SteveA> carlos: ping
[05:17] <carlos> SteveA, pong
[05:17] <SteveA> carlos: shall we talk on skype?
[05:18] <SteveA> i'm running it now
[05:18] <carlos> sure
[05:18] <carlos> hmm
[05:18] <carlos> wait, I need to reinstall it
[05:18] <carlos> I reinstalled the laptop last week
[05:18] <carlos> it should be fast
[05:23] <carlos> SteveA, ok, I'm logged in
[05:32] <jordi> carlos: so when you're done, I have a few pending posts that I wanted you or daf to answer
[05:51] <kiko> hey jordi 
[05:51] <jordi> that's the kiko
[05:51] <jordi> how did it go dude?
[05:51] <kiko> what's up dude
[05:51] <kiko> not too bad
[05:51] <jordi> bastards with vacation
[05:53] <jordi> daf: https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/3686 updated
[05:53] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 3686: "System error when admining pot" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Minor, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: NeedInfo http://launchpad.net/bugs/3686
[06:38] <SteveA> carlos: 
[06:38] <SteveA> carlos: oops
[06:39] <SteveA> carlos: i mean, that was a mistake
[06:39] <Keybuk> I'm not sure "Product Groups" is right
[06:40] <Keybuk> that brings to mind the Microserf-esque "MS Encarta 2006 Product Group" type thing
[06:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2006: "Deactivated memberships should be hidden" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/2006
[06:40] <kiko> the name is certainly convoluted
[06:40] <kiko> how did ubugtu match /that/? Seveas?
[06:41] <Seveas> kiko, MS equals bug perhaps :)
[06:41] <kiko> really now!
[06:41] <Seveas> want the truth?
[06:41] <Seveas> I'm stupid :)
[06:41] <Seveas> it'll now match any integer
[06:42] <LarstiQ> 1337?
[06:42] <Keybuk> what, so if I say I'm 25, born in 1980, live at 15 priorygate way, B9 5nf and my phone number is ... 
[06:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 25: "New feature: notepad-like box in translations" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/25
[06:42] <Seveas> no, but 1337
[06:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1980: "Recovering archive from mirror procedure incomplete; need to recreate the .archive-version file" Fix req. for: bazaar (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/1980
[06:42] <Keybuk> :p
[06:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 15: "PO file import errors should be more verbose" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Wishlist, Assigned to: Carlos Perell Marn, Status: Fixed http://launchpad.net/bugs/15
[06:42] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 1337: "Distro release tasks should include name of distro" Fix req. for: malone (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Brad Bollenbach, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/1337
[06:42] <Seveas> @unload Bugtracker
[06:42] <Ubugtu> The operation succeeded.
[06:42] <Seveas> let me fix it :)
[06:46] <Keybuk>  The reference for this error is OOPS-A786. Please include it in your bug report or email.
[06:46] <Keybuk> (Timeout error)
[06:49] <Seveas> ok, fixed
[06:50] <SteveA> Keybuk: nice big query.  it deserved to time out
[06:50] <Keybuk> "big query" ?  I just typed my name into the box <g>
[06:51] <Seveas> Keybuk, well "Scott James Remnant" is quite a big name ;)
[06:51] <Keybuk> I just typed "Keybuk"
[06:51] <SteveA> Keybuk: the query in the OOPS report wouldn't fit on your birth certificate
[06:52] <Keybuk> such a random document than that
[06:52] <Keybuk> "this certifies that you were REALLY BORN"
[06:52] <Keybuk> "surely the fact I'm standing here does that?"
[06:52] <SteveA> "scott's birth certificate too small"
[06:53] <Seveas> Keybuk, no, you could have appeared instead of being born ;)
[06:55] <SteveA> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/6389
[06:55] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6389: "people search timed out" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6389
[06:55] <SteveA> https://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+bug/6389
[07:40] <looksaus> sabdfl, I would like to convince the local chain of fair trade shops (Oxfam Wereldwinkels) to distribute the Ubuntu CD
[07:40] <looksaus> is this appropriate?
[07:41] <looksaus> we're speaking of a very tight network of local shops operated by volunteers with a very good community reputation
[07:41] <looksaus> 206 shops in Flanders, Dutch speaking northern half of Belgium
[07:42] <looksaus> (or please refer me to the correct person to ask this question to)
[07:44] <looksaus> they have a quite professional internal distribution system
[07:44] <kiko> looksaus, maybe contact silbs?
[08:25] <bradb> jamesh: ping
[08:28] <sivang> hmm, launchpad wiki coming from webmaster@ubuntu.com makes it hard to distinct it from w.u.c... can it be changed to launchpad@ubuntu.com ?
[08:28] <sivang> (when sening notifications about subscribed pages)
[08:59] <mpt> Goooooooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[08:59] <kiko> hey mpt
[09:06] <mpt> 2006, wow
[09:09] <Seveas> 2006 is old news
[09:09] <mpt> bradb, ping
[09:10] <bradb> mpt: pong
[09:10] <mpt> bradb, DuplicateBugHandling is marked as BrainDump + Implemented
[09:10] <mpt> there needs to be a spec about merging bugs' tasks
[09:11] <mpt> Would you prefer me to finish the DuplicateBugHandling spec with that stuff included, or start a new spec?
[09:12] <bradb> mpt: Filling in the existing braindump would be better, IMHO.
[09:14] <mpt> okie dokie
[09:15] <sivang> hey mpt 
[09:15] <mpt> hi sivang 
[09:17] <sivang> mpt: I trying to make your design reality in glade, it's a pain :-)
[09:18] <sivang> mpt: glade is acting weird, not displaying frame borders, layout is getting flipped etc..
[09:18] <kiko> mpt, many people have suggested you produce glade/gazpacho mockups instead of paper drawings..
[09:18] <sivang> heh
[09:18] <sivang> kiko: if he had done that, I would had 80% of the work already done, glade is a real pain
[09:19] <kiko> well, it does require you understand the gtk+ box model
[09:19] <sivang> I understand it to some good degree I think, but stuff aren't behaving as they should this time..
[09:22] <sivang> kiko: as you've written kiwi, mind if I ask you some quesiton in glade?
[09:23] <mpt> kiko, I find Glade/Gazpacho take me 20 times as long as pen and paper too, so that's just redistributing effort, not saving it :-)
[09:24] <kiko> sivang, sure. 
[09:25] <sivang> mpt: I appriciate greatly your pen and paper stuff, it really helps to put things in perspective without loosing hair with glade technicalities :)
[09:25] <sivang> kiko: how do I tell glade to show frame's border? I set it several time to X>0 and nothing happens
[09:26] <sivang> mpt: just too bad I didn't have you in my HUB bofs ..
[09:36] <el-singerl> hi to all
[09:36] <el-singerl> today I've registered in launchpad and want to help to translate
[09:36] <el-singerl> english -> german
[09:37] <el-singerl> now a question: everywhere the following message appers: suggestions are temporarily disabled
[09:37] <el-singerl> how can i help now to translate ?
[09:40] <carlos> el-singerl, your suggestions will be stored anyway
[09:41] <carlos> it's just that we are not showing them atm because we had some performance problems
[09:41] <el-singerl> but they don't appear
[09:41] <carlos> we will try to get them fixed next week
[09:41] <el-singerl> ah ok, I understand
[09:42] <sivang> el-singerl: talk to your locoteam admin to approve you as a translator , then you could translate directly without just adding suggestions, but I imagine this can take a while until they see youre translations are good
[09:42] <el-singerl> so if i translate now, all message are saved anyhow
[09:42] <carlos> el-singerl, yes
[09:42] <mdke> sure, they are suggestions
[09:42] <sivang> el-singerl: s/locoteam admin/launchpad translator team admin/
[09:42] <el-singerl> k, i understand
[09:42] <el-singerl> thx
[09:43] <el-singerl> I'll contact my locoteam admin
[09:47] <mpt> so suggestions are turned off?
[09:47] <mpt> but I'm still getting timeouts
[09:47] <mpt> odd
[09:49] <jordi> carlos: so that's it? carlos, I was waiting for your return to answer this question.
[09:50] <jordi> carlos: so, when people ask where to find a list of translatable software for my language, what do I say?
[09:50] <carlos> jordi, really?
[09:50] <jordi> (and, does it work?)
[09:51] <carlos> jordi, https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+lang/lang_code
[09:51] <carlos> jordi, dapper is not ready
[09:51] <carlos> and it works but has bugs
[09:51] <carlos> timeouts and some missing templates if there is no translation at all
[09:51] <carlos> for your language
[09:51] <jordi> ok, so that's what I was seeing
[09:52] <jordi> is there a plan to fix that "missing templates" bug? it's pretty bad, people can't find out what to translate
[09:52] <mpt> BjornT, ping
[09:52] <carlos> jordi, yes, but not sure when.. SteveA and daf are working on the bugs priorities
[09:52] <BjornT> hi mpt 
[09:53] <carlos> jordi, btw... are you aware of the new page at https://launchpad.net/rosetta/imports ?
[09:53] <carlos> jordi, the wiki page is now deprecated
[09:53] <jordi> carlos: too aware, I need to talk to you about it too
[09:53] <carlos> ;-)
[09:53] <carlos> ok
[09:53] <jordi> because the first day I used it I goofed quite a bit
[09:53] <jordi> carlos: yes
[09:54] <carlos> jordi, goofed?
[09:55] <jordi> fucked up, because I really didn't know how it worked
[09:55] <jordi> (and in the end, uploaded a hebrew translation as greek)
[09:56] <carlos> oh
[09:56] <carlos> I saw your email
[09:56] <carlos> right
[09:56] <carlos> please, feel free to file bugs with suggestions to improve it
[09:56] <carlos> you must be as productive as possible with that page
[09:56] <carlos> that's the main point behind it
[09:57] <carlos> hmm, seems like we have some problems there with some entries that are stalled...
[09:59] <carlos> wtf...
[09:59] <janimo> jordi, I moved over here
[09:59] <jordi> carlos: I need a basic guide of how I am supposed to work with it
[09:59] <jordi> janimo: great, better
[09:59] <carlos> jordi, the first table has the headers wrong
[10:00] <jordi> carlos: ok, so janimo and Burgwork are discussing how mature launchpad/rosetta is for xfce
[10:00] <carlos> I will fix it with hte next production upload
[10:00] <janimo> well I have no experience with rosetta
[10:00] <carlos> janimo, hi
[10:00] <jordi> carlos: I have in mind the problems that the Plone guys have encountered -- mostly permissions
[10:00] <janimo> I know xfce have an i18n team using po files and committers to their svn
[10:00] <janimo> but nothing more
[10:01] <janimo> I wanted to know if it would be too early for me going to them and asking if they want to test rosetta
[10:01] <janimo> carlos, hi :)
[10:01] <carlos> jordi, you should talk then with SteveA and daf to set those bugs as high priority so we fixed them as soon as possible
[10:01] <jordi> janimo: currently rosetta will provide an "easy way" of getting work available for contributors, and an easy way of getting it done.
[10:01] <Burgwork> janimo, what about moving a smaller team onto to rosetta, or a small app
[10:02] <janimo> Burgwork, ok with me but I have no control over any xfce development
[10:02] <el-singerl> whois seveas
[10:02] <janimo> was just thinking about mailing them about rosetta and anyone jump on it if seems ok
[10:02] <Seveas> el-singerl, I am seveas ;)
[10:02] <mpt> Interface design bugbear #4677: People who use "option" to mean anything at all. "There should be a Quit option under the File option." "There are only ten options on the Rosetta page, there should be twenty."
[10:02] <janimo> and want to make sure first they don't flame me for pithing something not quite ready ;)
[10:02] <janimo> pitching
[10:03] <jordi> Burgwork, janimo: in my experience, cases like yours could find problems if you need that only a few selected people work on the translations, this is because right now you guys wouldn't be able to create the XFce <language> Translators teams, you rely on launchpad admins for that.
[10:03] <Burgwork> janimo, are the xfce pots already in rosetta?
[10:03] <jordi> so, that's the first thing you want to answer.
[10:03] <janimo> Burgwork, nope
[10:04] <Burgwork> janimo, I would get them up there first
[10:04] <Burgwork> then ask some of the key people to take a look
[10:04] <janimo> I guess that is independent of the rest of xfce i18n work right, it's a read-only thing 
[10:04] <jordi> there are old versions of them, included in the Hoary distro
[10:04] <carlos> jordi, well, that's not a big issue, it's a matter of document that they need to ask us to create the team
[10:04] <carlos> until we add a way to do it by their own
[10:05] <jordi> carlos: from mailman/plone experience, imposing so many "admin request" barriers is cumbersome for them
[10:05] <jordi> that's one of the things plone guys complained about
[10:05] <janimo> Burgwork, I intended to get them in a while ago but then thought I'd wait for bzr imports instead of bazaar one in LP
[10:05] <jordi> but yes, they could start like this
[10:06] <jordi> carlos: also, can normal users move products to product groups and so on?
[10:06] <jordi> xfce would need a product group
[10:06] <janimo> jordi, I assume first I need to make that product group
[10:06] <carlos> jordi, no idea
[10:06] <janimo> again I was waiting for svn->bzr imports
[10:06] <janimo> any ETA on that?
[10:06] <carlos> jordi, I know the 'admin request' is no ideal
[10:07] <carlos> jordi, but it's a matter of decide if what we have now is better than what they have
[10:07] <carlos> jordi, while we fix that issue
[10:07] <jordi> yeah
[10:07] <jordi> they need to decide that
[10:08] <janimo> ok, I'll look around on their i18n list and ask if they are willing to consider it, maybe coming here and discuss with you guys if they have questions
[10:08] <carlos> janimo, no idea, sorry. You should ask lifeless or jblack 
[10:09] <janimo> did projects which started using rosetta see notable benefits?
[10:09] <jordi> janimo: that'd be better.
[10:09] <janimo> more up-todate translations etc?
[10:10] <jordi> janimo: I plan doing a survey to see how successful it's been. Of course, rosetta is in constant improvement
[10:10] <jordi> so the very early adopters might have had troubles at the beginning which are now resolved, etc.
[10:10] <janimo> well of course web 2.0 style ;)
[10:10] <jordi> janimo: I know many are happy because they hopped in with no translations, and suddenly they had a dozen
[10:10] <janimo> cool
[10:11] <janimo> so if some xfce people turn out to be interested I assume they can come here for a rosetta crash course right?
[10:12] <mpt> BjornT, would you be able to fill in the last of the implementation section in FormLayout soonish?
[10:15] <janimo> AFAIK the main benefit of rosetta lowering the contrib barrier, so translators do not need to know about gettext & co right?
[10:15] <jordi> janimo: yes
[10:15] <jordi> janimo: that's the main goal
[10:15] <janimo> so I know what I tell them if the say they can manage just fine with the current setup :)
[10:16] <janimo> and in this case the permission problem you mentioned would prevent some people from translating?
[10:16] <janimo> I did not quite get that 
[10:17] <BjornT> mpt: sure. i'll try to get it done this week.
[10:17] <carlos> janimo, not really, it will introduce a small delay until they can start translating
[10:17] <janimo> acceptable I guess
[10:18] <sivang> night all
[10:18] <janimo> night sivang
[10:18] <mpt> thanks BjornT 
[10:19] <carlos> sivang, night!
[11:04] <adn> kiko: it works!
[11:04] <adn> thank you
[11:11] <carlos> lifeless, is there any problem with pqm? the website with the queue gives a "Bad gateway" error
[11:12] <kiko> yeah, it seems broken
[11:13] <carlos> kiko, btw, hi!, how was your end of year?
[11:52] <mpt> Hmm, time to get reaccustomed to working while everyone else is asleep :-)
[11:53] <Burgwork> mpt, you back at home?
[11:54] <mpt> Have been since the 23rd
[11:54] <mpt> but was on leave from the 25th
[11:54] <kiko> carlos, yeah, was okay -- rested, mainly
[11:55] <Burgwork> mpt, needed to do christmas with the GF?
[12:00] <mpt> Burgwork, no, with the family ... I was and am still 14000 km away from the GF
[12:00] <kiko> I think you are actually farther away than you were
[12:01] <mpt> definitely
[12:03] <mpt> before Christmas I was only 7700 km away
[12:04] <mpt> 1.5 hours to merge rocketfuel, ugh