[12:39] <hyperactivecrond> eer what is Grumpy Groundhog?
[12:39] <hyperactivecrond> as in https://wiki.ubuntu.com/AboutUbuntu
[12:40] <Burgundavia> hyperactivecrond, a as of yet not released version of Ubuntu
[12:40] <hyperactivecrond> oh. never mind.
[12:40] <hyperactivecrond> Burgundavia:  i have a bad habit of not googleing stuff before I ask... so ... apologies to the whole channel for not googleing before i asked
[12:42] <Burgundavia> hyperactivecrond, hey, np
[12:42] <hyperactivecrond> lol thx
[12:42] <Burgundavia> grumpy was to be breezys code name
[12:43] <Burgundavia> as it would continue the hog theme
[12:43] <hyperactivecrond> lol
[12:43] <hyperactivecrond> do we need an install guide for Xubuntu?
[12:43] <Burgundavia> isn't there one already on the wiki?
[12:44] <hyperactivecrond> i mean an official one for Dapper
[12:44] <Burgundavia> anything on the wiki is official
[12:44] <Burgundavia> if you mean in SVN, go ahead if you want to write one
[12:44] <hyperactivecrond> sweeeeet.
[12:46] <Burgundavia> currently the installguide would be the same for (k)(x) and ubuntu
[12:46] <hyperactivecrond> true...
[12:46] <hyperactivecrond> maybe an appendix for differences in each?
[12:47] <Burgundavia> there are no differences currently
[12:47] <hyperactivecrond> Burgundavia: alright
[12:47] <Burgundavia> however, for dapper they are going to be different
[12:47] <Burgundavia> as we switch to (k)(x)ubuntu-express
[12:47] <hyperactivecrond> installguide for dapper it ...
[12:47] <hyperactivecrond> express?
[12:48] <Burgundavia> wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuExpress
[12:50] <hyperactivecrond> so kind of what Mepis does? and Knoppix? (where you can install from cd)
[12:50] <Burgundavia> yes
[12:50] <hyperactivecrond> cool
[12:51] <hyperactivecrond> ooh xubuntu's nice
[01:08] <hyperactivecrond> ...only in cleveland can one have a severe t-storm on jan 2nd
[01:09] <hyperactivecrond> instead of snow
[01:50] <Madpilot> Burgundavia: ping
[05:44] <jsgotangco> hhhhmmm
[05:45] <mhz> hmmmm?
[05:45] <mhz> .oO(oh, jsgotangco is having lunch)
[05:46] <jsgotangco> whats up?
[08:04] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, pong
[08:22] <Burgundavia> bonsoir robitaille 
[08:23] <robitaille> hi Burgundavia 
[08:33] <poningru> question, do we have a place to put something like a useful tips page?
[08:33] <Burgundavia> poningru, what sort of tips?
[08:33] <poningru> like http://www.mozilla.org/support/firefox/tips
[08:33] <poningru> thats for firefox
[08:34] <Burgundavia> big catchall docs like that are not reallly that great
[08:34] <poningru> for ubuntu it might be something like, how to hide your recent documents
[08:34] <Burgundavia> try and integrate them into tasked based docs
[08:34] <poningru> oh ic
[08:34] <Burgundavia> so create HowToHideRecentDocs
[08:34] <poningru> right ok
[08:34] <Burgundavia> because when they are searching for that, they are looking for that, not a catchall tips page
[08:35] <poningru> yeah true, but it would be such a small page though
[08:35] <Madpilot> ...and the search on our wiki is pretty awful... :P
[08:35] <Burgundavia> poningru, you can redirect if neccessary
[08:38] <poningru> ok I am just going to make a page like that
[08:38] <poningru> screw it
[08:40] <poningru> RecentDocuments
[08:41] <Madpilot> poningru: there's already a RecentChanges, you might want to pick a different name - and include Howto or something similar in the title, so people know what it is
[08:42] <poningru> hmm ok
[08:45] <Burgundavia> I thought there was a PrintintHowTo
[08:45] <Burgundavia> I guess not
[08:45] <Burgundavia> someone want ot create one
[08:48] <Burgundavia> Madpilot, ^
[09:06] <Madpilot> Printing, you mean?
[09:06] <Burgundavia> yes
[09:06] <Burgundavia> create a page like the ScanningHowto I did
[09:13] <Burgundavia> poningru, ping
[09:15] <Burgundavia> poningru, I renamed your page to camelcase
[09:15] <poningru> k
[09:15] <poningru> camelcase?
[09:15] <Madpilot> the MixedCase stuff
[09:17] <poningru> what are we talking about?
[09:17] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/howtohiderecentdocuments
[09:18] <Burgundavia> this page ^
[09:18] <Burgundavia> ItIsNotInCamelCase
[09:19] <Burgundavia> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/HideRecentDocumentsHowto
[09:19] <Burgundavia> anyway, I need to crash
[09:19] <poningru> oh gotcha
[09:19] <Burgundavia> night all
[09:19] <poningru> doh
[09:19] <poningru> night dude
[09:19] <Madpilot> later, Burgundavia
[11:05] <mdke> morning everyone
[11:06] <Madpilot> hi mdke
[11:06] <jsgotangco> hey mdke 
[11:09] <mdke> how are things?
[11:09] <jsgotangco> hmm not so good for me
[11:13] <mdke> jsgotangco, how come?
[11:13] <jsgotangco> lots of things to do after the holidays :/
[11:13] <mdke> ah, as always
[11:16] <mdke>  [23:43:44]  < hyperactivecrond> do we need an install guide for Xubuntu?
[11:16] <mdke> we'll need an install guide for ubuntu first
[11:16] <mdke> wasn't that the guy who volunteered to write it?
[11:23] <mdke> ah no, not the same guy
[11:44] <bhuvan> mdke ping
[11:55] <mdke> bhuvan, yes?
[11:56] <bhuvan> just in case you have not noticed, fyi, i've included 'status' in 'make all' target 
[11:56] <mdke> yeah I saw, nice work
[11:56] <bhuvan> ok
[11:58] <mdke> bhuvan, how's the server guide looking?
[11:58] <bhuvan> its looking good
[11:58] <mdke> think it'll be finished for dapper?
[11:58] <bhuvan> couple of sections are over. i'm preparing few more
[11:59] <mdke> awesome
[11:59] <bhuvan> i guess we've atleast 3 months ?
[11:59] <mdke> yep
[11:59] <bhuvan> so, sure, we'll complete it
[12:00] <bhuvan> meanwhile, there are couple of 'review' sections..
[12:00] <mdke> bhuvan, i meant to ask, I noticed there is quite a lot of exim4 material on the Mailman wiki page, do you think it will be possible to make a separate page on exim4, and leave only Mailman specific stuff in the Mailman page?
[12:00] <mdke> then, we can add exim to https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MailServer
[12:01] <bhuvan> it should be possible, but, i guess the exim info available on Mailman wiki page is meant to configure exim for Mailman
[12:01] <bhuvan> imo, it can reside there
[12:02] <mdke> ok, so it's Mailman-specific?
[12:03] <bhuvan> yep
[12:03] <mdke> ah right
[12:03] <mdke> fair enough then
[12:03] <bhuvan> ok
[12:03] <bhuvan> back to server guide..
[12:03] <mdke> Ok, keep up the great work :)
[12:03] <bhuvan> i've couple of review sections
[12:04] <bhuvan> when you have some time, i want you to proof read those sections and update it as completed
[12:04] <mdke> I will, thanks
[12:04] <bhuvan> ok
[12:05] <bhuvan> if you feel that more tech info needs to be added or such, let me know so i can work on it
[12:05] <bhuvan> i meant more tech info in those review sections
[12:06] <mdke> sure
[12:08] <mdke> bbl
[04:33] <jjesse> morning, when soemone get's a chance can they review the updated release notes for kubuntu?
[04:36] <jsgotangco> im reading them now
[04:38] <jsgotangco> jjesse, Kubuntu dapper 2 is very very broken though
[04:39] <jjesse> jsgotangco: i understand that, however everything in the release notes should be either what is in or what is going to be in
[04:39] <jsgotangco> yep
[04:39] <jsgotangco> i couldnt make a proper test since it just doesnt work on mine at the moment
[04:40] <jjesse> i'm running it on two test instances myself, one test computer and also on qemu
[04:40] <jsgotangco> probably in a few days :)
[04:40] <jjesse> w/o any problems
[04:40] <jsgotangco> ahh
[04:40] <jsgotangco> it must be hardware then
[04:40] <jsgotangco> i had to setup my interface verytime i boot
[04:40] <jjesse> oh yeah sorry that is the one issue i'm having
[04:40] <jjesse> forgot about that :)
[04:41] <jjesse> been along time since i've shutdown the box so i forget bout that
[04:42] <jsgotangco> i always had to do sudo kcontrol on the console just to fix it via gui
[04:43] <jjesse> be right back
[04:43] <jsgotangco> i gotta sleep
[04:43] <jsgotangco> later
[04:43] <jsgotangco> there are some minor changes i'll commit
[06:36] <LaserJock> Burgwork: ping?
[06:36] <Burgwork> LaserJock, pong
[06:38] <LaserJock> Burgwork: are there any guides or anything about cleaning up wiki's. Myself and another guy want to clean up the MOTU wiki but I worry about redirects or deletions
[06:39] <LaserJock> I would like to be able to rename wiki pages easily but I just don't think that is going to work
[06:39] <LaserJock> I am trying to clean up the structure as well as the content
[06:42] <Burgwork> LaserJock, google the names if you are not certain. Redirect any pages older than a couple of weeks
[06:43] <LaserJock> k
[06:43] <Burgwork> LaserJock, s/names/URLs
[06:45] <LaserJock> sure
[07:07] <LaserJock> Burgwork: what about using subpage structure, like putting all the MOTU stuff under MOTU/ ?
[07:07] <Burgwork> LaserJock, what about it?
[07:08] <LaserJock> is there a reason not to use them?
[07:08] <LaserJock> It seemed like there was some discussion about it a while
[07:08] <Burgwork> LaserJock, there is no reason not to use them
[07:09] <LaserJock> ok, cool
[07:09] <Burgwork> caveat: for things that are logically grouped together, such as the MOTU stuff
[07:10] <LaserJock> sure
[08:20] <Burgwork> mdke, thoughts on a ForReview category for docs?
[08:25] <poningru> can someone just look over https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FirefoxPlugins
[08:27] <poningru> guys also whats the policy on deletion on the wiki
[08:27] <poningru> ?
[08:27] <mdke> Burgwork, i think we have too many categories, Cleanup, ForReview and NeedsExpansion should probably be a max of 2
[08:28] <mdke> poningru, WikiGuide shows the policy on deletion
[08:28] <mdke> poningru, mail the list about FirefoxPlugins and someone will take a look :)
[08:28] <poningru> k
[08:28] <mdke> afk again
[08:29] <Burgwork> mdke, ok
[08:31] <poningru> mdke: not ok
[08:31] <poningru> come back now ;)
[08:31] <mdke> poningru, Burgwork can help too :)
[08:31] <Hendikins> having just added FirefoxPlugins is the reason I'm lurking here. I'm hoping a bit of quietly watching will help ensure I don't stuff up too badly when overhauling the Firefox-related docs :-)
[08:32] <mdke> Hendikins, best plan is to use the mailing list, that way we can keep track of stuff, you won't always find someone active here
[08:32] <Burgwork> mdke, I don't actually work
[08:32] <Burgwork> poningru, yes, I can help
[08:32] <Hendikins> mdke: I'm more here to watch, not ask.
[08:32] <mdke> Burgwork, ;)
[08:33] <mdke> Hendikins, you're welcome to ask, but if no one responds, or people are busy, feel free to use the ML too :)
[08:34] <Hendikins> mdke: I prefer to be seen and not heard, but thanks for the tip :)
[08:35] <Burgwork> Hendikins, like a good child? ;)
[08:35] <Hendikins> heh
[08:36] <Burgwork> seriously, I am usually here during PST working hours (GMT -8)
[08:36] <poningru_out> Burgwork: I thought you were central
[08:36] <Burgwork> nope
[08:37] <Hendikins> Main reason I'm digging in to Firefox docs on the wiki is that I'm already firmly entrenched in Firefox support, and it helps having good docs outside of our domain[s] 
[08:37] <poningru_out> you are in chicago right?
[08:37] <Hendikins> and I'm AEDT, so all your timezones are probably irrelevant to me anyway ;-)
[08:37] <Burgwork> poningru_out, me? Victoria BC Canada dammit
[08:37] <poningru_out> oh doh
[08:37] <Burgwork> Hendikins, that is +13, no?
[08:37] <poningru_out> must be thinking of someone else
[08:37] <Hendikins> +11
[08:38] <poningru_out> your brother lives with you right?
[08:38] <Hendikins> New Zealand is +13
[08:38] <Burgwork> poningru_out, no, but we are both involved in Ubuntu doc work
[08:38] <poningru_out> where does Madpilot live then?
[08:39] <Burgwork> poningru_out, Victoria, BC, Canada dammit
[08:39] <poningru_out> ok I really have to
[08:39] <poningru_out> will talk later
[08:39] <poningru_out> :D
[08:39] <Burgwork> just not in the same house
[08:39] <Burgwork> we don't live in igloos in Canada, ya know
[08:39] <Burgwork> ;)
[08:41] <Hendikins> heh. I'd better get going myself. I've got to be back getting up at this time by next week, not going to bed.
[09:27] <Burgwork> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Fedora
[09:30] <nickrud> before it spreads too far, is installing realplayer with a deb legal anywhere?
[09:31] <Burgwork> nickrud, yes, because the deb simply calls teh downloader
[09:31] <Burgwork> thus the actual realplayer code is not being distributed
[09:32] <nickrud> for the one in multiverse, yes, but not the one on restricted. It has the code embedded in the deb.
[09:32] <Burgwork> nickrud, there is no realplayer in restricted
[09:32] <nickrud> restricted formats, I mean
[09:32] <Burgwork> again, we are not distributing it
[09:33] <nickrud> true. I wasn't sure just where I should draw the line
[09:33] <Burgwork> as long as we make it clear that some things may not be legal, I think we are good
[09:33] <nickrud> anyway, I'm pretty much done with the structure and theme of NewJava. 
[09:34] <Burgwork> yes, I saw that
[09:34] <nickrud> it's an extreme solution :)
[09:34] <Burgwork> nickrud, general style comment. Use Ubuntu 5.10 (Breezy Badger), not just Breezy or Hoary
[09:35] <nickrud> those are placeholders. I've already changed it in places. Now, how do I refer to the distros? amd, ppc, 386 are lame
[09:35] <Burgwork> hmm, not sure about that latest java thing
[09:36] <Burgwork> i386 = your PC
[09:36] <Burgwork> amd64 = your 64-bit PC
[09:36] <Burgwork> ppc = Apple and other PowerPC computers
[09:37] <nickrud> ok, I tentatively tried PC, 64-bit PC and Mac on the mplayer page.
[09:38] <nickrud> but some are still going to say, "I have an amd64 processor", but are running 32-bit.
[09:38] <Burgwork> that is fine, that is not our concern
[09:40] <nickrud> when they get the 64bit blackdown, and try to install it, they'll say 'those docs suck' :)
[09:41] <Burgwork> again, not our concern
[09:41] <nickrud> but I guess you have to assume some intelligence on their part, or you'll be splitting to infinity.
[09:41] <Burgwork> if they are running 32 bit on 64, they should know enough
[09:42] <nickrud> ok.
[09:43] <nickrud> Anyway, the only truly relevant new thing on that page is advocating getting the latest java-package.
[09:44] <nickrud> If the wiki does that, then it will let the other java pages clean themselves up nicely.
[09:44] <Burgwork> you need to mention that Breezy ships with GCJ java
[09:44] <nickrud> ah, yes
[09:44] <nickrud> I'd have to research that some, of course. I don't know much about java itself.
[09:47] <Burgwork> I avoid it like the plague
[09:48] <nickrud> I almost want to say that about docbook. That is some angular writing.
[10:11] <Kyral> yo
[10:13] <Burgwork> salut Kyral 
[10:14] <Kyral> I have an idea for the Install Guide
[10:15] <Burgwork> sweeet
[10:15] <Kyral> maybe we could research alternative install methods
[10:15] <hyperactivecrond> ?
[10:15] <Kyral> like without a CDROM Drive
[10:15] <Kyral> from a USB Stick
[10:15] <Kyral> Netboot
[10:15] <Kyral> etc
[10:15] <Burgwork> there is already some of that work on the wiki
[10:15] <hyperactivecrond> problem:
[10:15] <Burgwork> solution:
[10:15] <mdke> the main problem is that we have no installguide
[10:15] <Kyral> because I'm working on it :D
[10:16] <mdke> Kyral, where is it?
[10:16] <Kyral> I'm waiting until the GUI INstaller comes around to start
[10:16] <hyperactivecrond> does ubuntu support netboot?
[10:16] <Burgwork> hyperactivecrond, yes
[10:16] <Kyral> and...until my computer borks
[10:16] <Kyral> unborks
[10:16] <hyperactivecrond> hmm.
[10:16] <Burgwork> Kyral, in the meantime, fix up the subpages on Installation in the wiki
[10:16] <hyperactivecrond> !bork
[10:16] <Kyral> Burgwork: that was a nice demo of LTSP at Ubuntu Love wasn't it
[10:17] <Burgwork> Kyral, ah, yes, I remember now
[10:17] <Burgwork> I was about to say that I had no idea what you were talking about
[10:17] <Kyral> haahah
[10:17] <Kyral> Only like two or three MOTU even realize I was there
[10:59] (jjesse/#ubuntu-doc) do i have to do anything on tun0 to bring it active before starting the virtual machine?
[11:01] <hyperactivecrond> jjesse: nope
[11:01] <jjesse> hmmm :(
[11:01] <hyperactivecrond> what's wrong?
[11:02] <jjesse> still can't get a dhcp address from my dapper session
[11:02] <hyperactivecrond> dhclient tun0 maybe?
[11:02] <jjesse> argh gotta head out :(
[11:18] <Kyral> lol
[11:18] <Kyral> Fedora Core
[11:18] <Kyral> EVIL
[11:18] <Burgwork> sadlly my company decided to build an enterprise offering on it
[11:18] <Burgwork> silk and sows ears come to mind
[11:53] <Kyral> damnit
[11:53] <Kyral> I didn't save my work
[11:53] <Burgwork> oops
[11:53] <Kyral> and I lost the connection
[11:54] <mpt> Kyral, let me guess, you're using a 1980s-style computer that makes you save everything manually
[11:54] <Kyral> no
[11:54] <Kyral> I was editing it via a FreeNX session
[11:54] <mpt> ah
[11:54] <Kyral> and I lost the connection before I could save it
[11:55] <mpt> Burgwork, wow, I was about to suggest you create https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing, then I saw you'd already done it
[11:56] <Burgwork> mpt, that isn't me
[11:57] <Kyral> ....I should suggest that the Wiki implement an AutoSave....
[11:57] <mpt> last edited 2005-12-24 03:08:47 by CoreyBurger2
[11:57] <mpt> we have another Corey Burger?
[11:57] <Kyral> lol
[11:58] <Kyral> Hey can I delete or rename the emacs page to Emacs?
[11:58] <Burgwork> Kyral, you can reanmed it
[11:58] <Burgwork> mpt, that si the last editor, no the creator
[11:58] <Kyral> nm saw rhe option lol
[11:58] <Kyral> Corey I'm gonna take it out of Category Cleanup when I revise it mkay?
[11:59] <Burgwork> Kyral, your wiki too
[11:59] <Burgwork> mpt, you are not the only person to be bitten by that annoying display thing
[12:00] <Kyral> Burgwork: My wiki too? (I guess I don't get the meaning)
[12:00] <mpt> Burgwork, what annoying display thing?
[12:00] <mpt> Burgwork, anyway, the reason I mentioned it was that Victor Jian and the OSTL in Beijing are doing super testing work, and not getting much feedback
[12:01] <mpt> Jiang, rather