[12:05] <bradb> mpt: Are you rsync'ing and then merging locally?
[12:07] <mpt> yes
[12:08] <lifeless> carlos: thats just the web ui
[12:08] <carlos> lifeless, ok
[12:11] <lifeless> web ui up
[12:11] <bradb> mpt: What diff command are you running?
[12:12] <mpt> bzr diff ../rocketfuel/launchpad | less
[12:12] <bradb> mpt: I wish that worked too :)
[12:12] <carlos> mpt, bzr diff -r branch:../rocketfuel/launchpad|less
[12:12] <bradb> bzr diff -r branch:../rocketfuel/launchpad | less
[12:12] <lifeless> mpt: do bzr diff -r branch:../.... lol
[12:12] <carlos> ;-)
[12:12] <lifeless> the answer for janimo btw, is jan 21
[12:12] <mpt> d'oh
[12:13] <lifeless> erm feb 1
[12:16] <mpt> whoa, "product groups" is in production
[12:16] <mpt> who did that?
[12:21] <mpt> thanks carlos + lifeless
[12:23] <mpt> kiko, should I change them back to "Projects" until the spec is done?
[12:34] <kiko> mpt, well, let's wait on that for now, I guess
[12:39] <mpt> I just have a branch in which I changed them to product groups, then changed them back to projects following the discussion, so now I'll need to change them to product groups again :-)
[12:44] <kiko> you trigger-happy kiwi
[12:44] <kiko> okay outta here
[01:19] <carlos> see you tomorrow
[04:11] <BenC> jamesh: hey, I just need some sane defaults for when the bugzilla bugs for linux get merged over to malone
[04:12] <BenC> jamesh: how much control do you have over the import rules?
[04:13] <jamesh> I could add some override specific to the "linux" package name
[04:13] <jamesh> I could add some override specific to the "linux" package name
[04:13] <BenC> ok
[04:13] <BenC> the rules I need are simple
[04:13] <BenC> for linux package
[04:13] <jamesh> at the moment I don't think the "linux" bugs are being handled as well as they should, because there is no source or binary package called "linux"
[04:14] <BenC> if bug was opened before 12-01-2004, then the fix request should only be before linux-source-2.6.12
[04:14] <BenC> wait
[04:14] <jamesh> so get filed against ubuntu with no source package name
[04:14] <BenC> if opened before 12-10-2004 AND in needsinfo, then linux-source-2.6.12
[04:14] <BenC> everything else can be against linux-source-2.6.15
[04:15] <jamesh> including resolved bugs?
[04:15] <BenC> resolved bugs, no
[04:15] <BenC> are you merging resolved bugs?
[04:15] <jamesh> we are importing all bugs in bugzilla under the "Ubuntu" product
[04:16] <BenC> can you do a date range for when they were resolved?
[04:16] <jamesh> I'm processing the duplicates table, so you should see the same "bug X is a duplicate of bug Y" relationships
[04:16] <jamesh> not really
[04:16] <BenC> anything resolved after 12-01-2004, making it resolved in linux-source-2.6.15, anything before just mark it linux-source-2.6.12
[04:16] <jamesh> that info is only in the bug activity table, which I have been ignoring
[04:17] <BenC> ah
[04:17] <BenC> really would like them searchable by some "linux kernel" meta thing
[04:18] <BenC> malone is a different paradigm though, so that doesn't really fit
[04:19] <jamesh> yeah.  Ideally you'd lump bugs for all linux-source-* packages as a single category
[04:19] <jamesh> although categorising them by source package works quite well in most cases
[04:19] <BenC> ok, just make all the resolved bugs against linux-source-2.6.15, since I can guarantee that it was fixed by then :)
[04:20] <BenC> can you do the assignee aswell?
[04:20] <jamesh> assignee?
[04:20] <BenC> I would like all bugs that are in assigned state to be assigned to me, and everything else (new, unconfirmed, etc) to be for the kernel team
[04:21] <mpt> BenC, so would would "linux kernel" be? An aggregation of other products?
[04:21] <jamesh> the assignees for the imported bugs will be the same as what's currently in bugzilla
[04:21] <BenC> mpt: yeah, right now it would be linux-source-2.6.10, linux-source-2.6.12, and linux-source-2.6.15
[04:21] <BenC> jamesh: no way to override that?
[04:21] <mpt> BenC, are they actual products, or just Ubuntu packages?
[04:21] <mpt> they look like product releases, to me
[04:22] <BenC> mpt: what's a product defined as?
[04:22] <jamesh> BenC: if you update it in bugzilla, then it will be imported with the rest of the data
[04:22] <jamesh> BenC: you can do "change multiple bugs at once" with bugzilla to update the assignee of all the bugs at once
[04:23] <BenC> jamesh: kernel team has a group entry on launchpad, so I don't know how that translates
[04:23] <mpt> BenC, a product has a maintainer, has translations that are partly shared across series/releases, may be packaged in multiple distributions, etc
[04:23] <BenC> https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-kernel-team
[04:24] <jamesh> BenC: it'll be moved over as https://staging.ubuntu.com/people/kernel-bugs <- bugs assigned to that team will cause emails to be sent to the team address
[04:24] <jamesh> which is a mailing list in this case
[04:24] <jamesh> BenC: if you add the kernel-bugs address as the team mail address, then it will assign the bugs to ubuntu-kernel-team
[04:26] <BenC> I'm not following, what is kernel-bugs-team?
[04:26] <jamesh> BenC: the import process creates people in Launchpad if they don't already exist
[04:27] <jamesh> BenC: it checks for existance by matching the email addresses
[04:27] <BenC> so if I assign it to the email address that is listed for ubuntu-kernel-team, then it will get assigned there?
[04:27] <jamesh> since https://launchpad.net/people/ubuntu-kernel-team has no email address associated with it, the import process doesn't know that bugs currently assigned to kernel-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com should be assigned to ubuntu-kernel-team
[04:28] <jamesh> ubuntu-kernel-team doesn't seem to have an email address at the moment
[04:28] <BenC> I didn't think there were any assigned there, that's just a QA contact
[04:30] <BenC> Ok, I added kernel-team@lists.ubuntu.com to ubuntu-kernel-team
[04:30] <jamesh> what I'm saying is this: if you set ubuntu-kernel-team's email address to kernel-bugs@lists.ubuntu.com, then all bugs that previously had that email address as a QA contact or subscriber will have ubuntu-kernel-team as a subscriber when migrated
[04:30] <BenC> hmm, maybe I should just use kernel-bugs
[04:30] <BenC> ok
[04:30] <jamesh> otherwise a separate kernel-bugs team will be created and it will be a subscriber
[04:31] <jamesh> (which might also be okay)
[04:33] <mpt> jamesh, could I trouble you for the code for removesmartquotes()? :-)
[04:34] <BenC> jamesh: ok thanks
[04:34] <mpt> mdz!
[04:34] <jamesh> mpt: I'll do up a quick impl
[04:35] <mpt> thanks jamesh 
[04:35] <mdz> there's nothing quite like doing a few quick successive control+Ws to delete the previous few words in a message, and having three tabs vanish instead
[04:35] <mdz> BOOM
[04:36] <mpt> mdz, that situation sucks, we need a better shortcut for closing tabs/windows that works everywhere
[04:36] <mpt> rather than "Ctrl+W except where people might be expecting emacs combos"
[04:36] <Burgundavia> mpt, the people who actually know emacs vs. the people is who know ctrl+w as close window is vanishingly small
[04:37] <mdz> the irony is that ^W isn't even an emacs binding
[04:37] <jamesh> ctrl+w in emacs is actually closer to ctrl+x rather than ctrl+backspace
[04:37] <mdz> at least not as delete-word
[04:38] <mpt> Ironically the Mac, which introduced Command+W for closing windows in the first place, avoids the problem by having Ctrl+W for delete word and *Command*+W for close window
[04:39] <mpt> and Windows usually doesn't have Ctrl+W in the first place, except in MSIE, Explorer post-IE4, and (iirc) Excel
[04:41] <mpt> mdz, anyway, that's not what I wanted to talk with you about ... Because I slept through the bike race, I didn't get to talk with you about Malone
[04:41] <mpt> is now convenient?
[04:47] <mpt> (... and Alt+F4 is horrid, because it's in the opposite direction to the angle of your thumb and fingers)
[04:48] <Burgundavia> mpt, indeed
[04:48] <Burgundavia> mpt, when do the lights go dark on Bugzilla
[04:48] <Burgundavia> ?
[04:48] <jamesh> mpt: it isn't as bad as ctrl+F4
[04:48] <mpt> Burgundavia, ask jamesh :-)
[04:49] <Burgundavia> jamesh, ^
[04:49] <mpt> jamesh, true, what uses that?
[04:49] <Burgundavia> mpt, close tab
[04:49] <jamesh> Burgundavia: probably early next week
[04:49] <mpt> oh boy
[04:49] <mpt> and, oh boy
[04:49] <Burgundavia> mpt, try it in FF
[04:49] <jamesh> mpt: in MDI apps, close a subwindow.  In some tabbed MDI apps, close a tab
[04:49] <mpt> screaming starts next week :-)
[04:56] <jamesh> bah.  mpt left
[08:11] <SteveA> morning
[08:16] <lbm> isn't it possible to just deny access to malone if the product doesn't use it?
[08:17] <lbm> or redirect to the bugtracker used?
[08:28] <lifeless> lbm: not at the moment
[08:28] <lbm> lifeless: okay
[08:29] <SteveA> lbm: what's the issue?
[08:29] <lbm> SteveA: i need to inform the developers about malone bugs
[08:30] <lbm> SteveA: they use sourceforge's bugtracker
[08:30] <SteveA> i see
[08:30] <SteveA> can i see one of the bugs?
[08:31] <lbm> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+bugs
[08:33] <SteveA> of those, only one is filed against the product alone
[08:33] <SteveA> the others are filed against gnomebaker in ubuntu
[08:34] <lbm> oh, i see
[08:34] <SteveA> the remaining one is https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+bug/6396
[08:34] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6396: "gnomebaker doesn't start in latest dapper upload" Fix req. for: gnomebaker (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6396
[08:34] <lbm> and who should take care of these?
[08:34] <SteveA> and from reading the bug, it should be filed against dapper
[08:34] <SteveA> rather than upstream
[08:35] <lbm> so the package maintainers in question should take care of these and forward them to the upstream bugtracker if needed?
[08:35] <SteveA> yes
[08:35] <SteveA> because if it is a bug reported in ubuntu, the user typically won't know if it is an ubuntu-specific bug, or an upstream bug
[08:36] <SteveA> you have a point though, that bugs can get assigned just to the upstream product
[08:36] <SteveA> and then get "lost"
[08:36] <lbm> okay, are package maintainers informed automaticly?
[08:36] <lbm> they do
[08:37] <SteveA> packages can have a "bug contact" who is notified when that package gets a new bug
[08:37] <SteveA> some maintainers use this.  others prefer to do a search for new bugs from time to time
[08:39] <lbm> okay
[08:40] <lbm> https://launchpad.net/products/gnomebaker/+bug/376
[08:40] <SteveA> lbm: maybe you want to raise this issue on the launchpad-users list?  http://lists.canonical.com/mailman/listinfo/launchpad-users
[08:40] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 376: "crashes during the cd burn for heavy metal music" Fix req. for: gnomebaker (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/376
[08:40] <lbm> this one is funny :)
[08:41] <lbm> SteveA: you can't just make a internal note?
[08:41] <SteveA> i will do
[08:41] <lbm> thanks!
[08:41] <SteveA> but, that will be internal
[08:42] <SteveA> as you raised the issue, if you want to get an answer for yourself, the best way is either to discuss on launchpad-users or to file a bug on it
[08:43] <lbm> yes, i know that, but i really don't have the time to track such things
[08:44] <SteveA> that's okay
[08:44] <SteveA> i'll talk about the issue with the team
[08:46] <lbm> great, thanks alot
[08:47] <SteveA> lifeless: reviewers' meeting in 1h10 ?
[08:50] <lbm> SteveA: will you make a note about product maintainers not being able to upload single po's to languages i'm not a member of?
[08:52] <sivang> morning all
[08:56] <lifeless> SteveA: yes
[09:12] <SteveA> lifeless: did you find out what happened with the odd reverted stuff in RF ?
[09:15] <lifeless> SteveA: no
[09:33] <carlos> morning
[09:34] <SteveA> jblack: hi, are you around?
[09:38] <ddaa> Happy Easter Everyone!
[09:52] <sivang> Easter already? :)
[09:52] <sivang> ddaa: Bon Jour David :)
[09:53] <ddaa> Hello sivang
[09:53] <ddaa> just for a change
[09:59] <lifeless> ddaa: hey dude!
[09:59] <lifeless> reviewer meeting time
[10:00] <lifeless> whos here ?
[10:00] <SteveA> i am here
[10:00] <BjornT> i'm here
[10:00] <lifeless> agenda:
[10:00] <lifeless> -------
[10:00] <lifeless> next meeting
[10:01] <lifeless> main queue status
[10:01] <lifeless> calls for help
[10:01] <lifeless> other business
[10:01] <lifeless> ------
[10:01] <lifeless> next meeting: jan 11th 0900 utc ok ?
[10:01] <SteveA> i will be absent
[10:01] <SteveA> i'll be in london at a sprint
[10:01] <SteveA>  / meeting
[10:01] <BjornT> i will be on leave
[10:01] <SteveA> kinda thing
[10:02] <lifeless> SteveA: is that the distro one ?
[10:02] <SteveA> no
[10:02] <lifeless> SteveA: k. irrelevant anyway ;)
[10:02] <lifeless> ok, well spiv will be back - so lets schedule it for then, its a best effort thing anyway
[10:03] <SteveA> you can maybe schedule it for  .br time
[10:03] <SteveA> so, your morning
[10:03] <SteveA> then kiko can attend
[10:03] <lifeless> yah, I'll check later this week.
[10:03] <lifeless> so, queue status, I assigned reviews to stevea, me, kiko today.
[10:04] <lifeless> but kikos queue while small has stuff from the start of dec - bjornt, could you take kikos items ?
[10:05] <lifeless> (I misread your leave flag ;)
[10:05] <BjornT> lifeless: no, can't review my own branches :)
[10:05] <lifeless> meh
[10:06] <lifeless> are you up to review three branches ? I'll shuffle them around - give me and steve yours, and you three others ?
[10:06] <SteveA> i'll review bjorn's branches in kiko's queue
[10:06] <SteveA> lifeless: sftp://chinstrap/home/warthogs/archives/jamesh/launchpad/bug-4120  this one needs doing soon
[10:07] <SteveA> as it is a blocker for bugzilla imports
[10:07] <lifeless> SteveA: thanks. I'll move them to yours for clarity. bjornt - can you review jamesh's then as its your morning now ?
[10:07] <BjornT> lifeless: sure
[10:07] <lifeless> thanks
[10:07] <lifeless> ok, any calls for help ?
[10:08] <BjornT> not from me
[10:08] <SteveA> i'm ok
[10:09] <lifeless> ok
[10:09] <lifeless> any 'other business' ?
[10:10] <BjornT> no
[10:10] <SteveA> no
[10:10] <lifeless> doom then
[10:10] <lifeless> ....
[10:11] <lifeless> doom
[10:21] <SteveA> jblack: around?
[11:09] <sabdfl> hey folks
[11:10] <SteveA> daf: ping
[11:10] <SteveA> hi sabdfl 
[11:10] <sabdfl> hey SteveA
[11:10] <sabdfl> we have some performance issues, is stub on top of those?
[11:10] <SteveA> what are the issues?   stub is on vacation, back tomorrow
[11:11] <SteveA> i was looking into issues with translation forms in production yesterday
[11:11] <daf> SteveA: pong
[11:11] <SteveA> and disabled suggestions, until some of carlos' work lands in the next production rollout next week
[11:11] <SteveA> daf: more bug work shortly?
[11:11] <daf> certainly
[11:15] <SteveA> sabdfl: we have a problem with listing people like on https://launchpad.net/people/+index
[11:16] <SteveA> and desipte turning off suggestions, we're getting timeouts on https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/breezy/+source/evolution/+pots/evolution-2.4/it/+translate
[11:16] <SteveA> and similar pages, although not as much as previously
[11:16] <SteveA> yesterday's error log analysis is here: https://chinstrap.warthogs.hbd.com/~stevea/analysis-tue.txt
[11:16] <jordi> I was using lp for a few hours last night, and didn't get any. It did feel a bit slow though.
[11:17] <SteveA> the issue with person pages might be the foaf karma cache updater
[11:18] <SteveA> yeah
[11:18] <SteveA> it was the karma cache updater
[11:18] <SteveA> i'm going to disable it until stu gets back
[11:19] <carlos> SteveA, I'm working on https://launchpad.net/malone/bugs/6410 because it's blocking the .pot imports when I'm done I will resume my work on the suggestions fixes
[11:19] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6410: "New translation import queue is not able to edit .pot imports" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Major, Assigned to: Carlos Perell Marn, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/6410
[11:19] <carlos> jordi, that means that the new .pot imports will not work, only the ones that were already imported
[11:19] <SteveA> carlos: ok.  please let me know if it looks like the suggestions fixes are going to miss the rollout next week.
[11:19] <jordi> carlos: workaround?
[11:20] <jordi> carlos: can I still use the traditional import method?
[11:20] <carlos> SteveA, my timeline is tonight to have all them fixed. I will mail you tonight with the status of it
[11:20] <carlos> jordi, no
[11:20] <SteveA> thanks carlos
[11:20] <SteveA> tell me if there are any things you need help with
[11:20] <carlos> SteveA, sure, thanks
[11:20] <jordi> carlos: damn. I thought we agreed in Montreal to keep it working at least for some time
[11:21] <carlos> jordi, ?
[11:21] <carlos> jordi, I don't remember that. Could you remind me a bit?
[11:21] <carlos> I don't think both procedures are compatible
[11:22] <jordi> I thought we said we'd keep my old +addpotemplate method along the new thing
[11:22] <jordi> nod
[11:22] <carlos> +addpotemplate thing is there
[11:22] <carlos> but the issue is not with that, the problem is with moving things outside the import queue
[11:22] <carlos> to be imported
[11:22] <jordi> I know. But stuff goes to the queue, and I need to do each file one by one, right?
[11:22] <carlos> jordi, only the first time
[11:23] <carlos> jordi, next time will be done automatically
[11:23] <carlos> the problem is that the .pot edition is not working, I found a bug 
[11:23] <carlos> I'm fixing it + adding some missing tests
[11:23] <jordi> doing it one by one is terribly bad, if I import something with mnay translations for the first time it can take like 40 minutes... and is very error prone --> selecting the domain and language by hand, etc.
[11:24] <jordi> ok
[11:24] <jordi> but we need to look at the "performance" hit. I think it's a lot harder now, if I'm not doing anything wrong.
[11:26] <SteveA> hey everyone, karma updates are turned off until stu returns and works out why they're causing problems.  this means that karma will still accumulate, but this won't be reflected in the statistics for a few days.
[11:28] <ddaa> lifeless: ping
[11:32] <carlos> jordi, ok. Please, could you talk with mpt about a way to improve the UI ?
[11:33] <jordi> carlos: first I need to find out if what I'm doing to import stuff is what you thought it'd be.
[11:33] <SteveA> jamesh: hello
[11:33] <jordi> carlos: it'd help if lp could pre-fill a few things based on file name.
[11:34] <SteveA> jamesh: what do you think about making the highlighting of "bug xxx" in bug text in launchpad be struck through if the bug is fixed or rejected?
[11:34] <jordi> carlos: ie, prefill me the Language box with French if the file is fr.po
[11:34] <SteveA> and what does anyone else think about that...
[11:34] <jordi> carlos: or if the files come from a tarball with a "gobby.pot", pre-assign that domain to the files.
[11:34] <jordi> carlos: how hard would that be?
[11:38] <carlos> jordi, well, those are special fields and I'm not sure If we have support to prefill them
[11:38] <carlos> but it makes sense, yes
[11:38] <jordi> carlos: nod. I don't know... before I just got a tarball and voil, everything was in place.
[11:39] <jordi> even if it was 150 files
[11:39] <jordi> now I'd have  to do those 150 files one by one.
[11:39] <carlos> jordi, but rejecting the files that are not 'language-code.po
[11:39] <BjornT> SteveA: i would interpret a struck through bug as invalid, thus for rejected it would make sense, but i don't see why fixed bugs should be struck through.
[11:39] <carlos> jordi, or creating the it_IT POFile instead of just 'it'
[11:39] <jordi> sure
[11:39] <carlos> that's why we need a manual review, to prevent those
[11:39] <carlos> I know it's not ideal
[11:40] <carlos> but it's the first step
[11:40] <jordi> I had to cleanup the tar.gz I uploaded, but once I had cleaned it, it was fast
[11:40] <jordi> ok
[11:40] <jordi> we'll talk abouit this on Monday
[11:40] <carlos> ok
[11:40] <carlos> see you later
[11:40] <jordi> are you leaving?
[11:41] <carlos> for 30 minutes
[11:41] <carlos> or so
[11:41] <carlos> jordi, do you need anything from me now?
[11:41] <jordi> no
[11:41] <carlos> ok
[11:41] <carlos> see you
[11:47] <SteveA> BjornT: i think bugzilla does it this way, or does somethign like this
[12:03] <jamesh> SteveA: sounds like a good idea (re. strike-through for closed bugs)
[12:04] <jamesh> SteveA: what do we do if a bug has two tasks, one open and one closed?
[12:06] <SteveA> that's an interesting question.
[12:06] <SteveA> the answer is in two parts
[12:06] <SteveA> 1. most don't
[12:07] <SteveA> 2. there are various places where it would be good to show some kind of overall status for a bug, considering all its tasks
[12:07] <SteveA> bjorn and brad and i have talked about point 2 at various times
[12:07] <SteveA> this may related to who you are; if you're involved in ubuntu, you care about the ubuntu task, not the upstream, most often
[12:07] <SteveA> so, a person might have some prefered projects / products / distros
[12:08] <jamesh> if you are viewing a bug filed against "product foo", and the referenced bug has a task against "product foo", I guess you'd be most interested in the status of that task too
[12:08] <SteveA> that's true too
[12:08] <SteveA> but, for striking through
[12:08] <jamesh> although I'm not sure you'd be able to easily get that info from fmt:text-to-html
[12:08] <SteveA> it is better to err on the side of leaving it unadorned
[12:09] <SteveA> so, only strike through when it is unambiguously closed
[12:09] <SteveA> but, i think this needs input from mpt
[12:09] <SteveA> thanks for writing the error reporting script.  it helped me a lot to see the performance problem today
[12:15] <ddaa> jamesh:  thanks for fixing the aranha bug
[12:35] <cprov> morning guys
[12:36] <ddaa> morning cprov
[12:37] <matsubara> good morning!
[12:37] <cprov> ddaa: hey david !
[01:26] <mdke> is there any standard method of announcing in advance when the auth server is going down?
[01:26] <mdke> it's quite inconvenient to find suddenly that the wiki loses write access
[01:31] <daf> carlos: hi
[01:31] <daf> carlos: bug 2173
[01:31] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 2173: "Generating a language pack fails assertion in export_rows:327" Fix req. for: rosetta (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: Accepted http://launchpad.net/bugs/2173
[01:32] <daf> carlos: do you think that removing the Last-Translator field when we don't know who it is would be an acceptable solution?
[01:33] <mdke> i can log into launchpad.net, but the Ubuntu wiki has no authentication, is this intentional?
[01:36] <sivang> mdke: probably some maintainance for the AuthServer or something :)
[01:37] <mdke> weird that it works ok on launchpad tho
[01:38] <carlos> daf, No, I think that we should allow teams to be there
[01:42] <daf> just without email addresses?
[01:43] <daf> I've just noticed that msgfmt isn't happy if there is no Last-Translator field
[01:43] <carlos> daf, well, teams can have an email address
[01:43] <daf> mm, but they don't have to, I think
[01:43] <carlos> but Last-Translator should work without it, just the name
[01:44] <daf> perhaps, instead of using Rosetta Admins when we don't know who the translator was
[01:45] <daf> we could set it to "FULL NAME <EMAIL@ADDRESS>"
[01:49] <carlos> daf, well, the data model needs to know who did the translation
[01:49] <carlos> daf, so the export does not know if we know or not the translator that did the translation
[01:49] <carlos> is on the import part when we set it
[01:51] <daf> hmm
[02:50] <daf> SteveA: bug 6422
[02:50] <Ubugtu> Malone bug 6422: "product translation page sometimes doesn't show table in some cases" Fix req. for: launchpad (upstream), Severity: Normal, Assigned to: Nobody, Status: New http://launchpad.net/bugs/6422
[03:24] <jblack> stevea: you were looking for me?
[03:26] <ddaa> hey james
[03:26] <SteveA> jblack: yes.  i went through the rocketfuel docs, and i have a bunch of questions.  it may be easier for us to talk about it and see where i'm confused, 
[03:26] <jblack> Sure, here, private msg? 
[03:26] <jblack> And how many questions? I'm hungry, and I need coffee. :)
[03:27] <SteveA> i was thinking voice, but i'm about to get some lunch
[03:27] <ddaa> jblack: I'd like to voice chat with you later today.
[03:27] <jblack> ddaa: Sure
[03:27] <jblack> Lets all eat.
[03:27] <jblack> That'll give you guys a chance to relax for a moment, and to pump me up with carbs and coffee.
[03:27] <jblack> I'll be back in ~ an hour
[03:28] <sivang> jblack: bon appetite
[03:28] <ddaa> jblack: what voice client do you use (using ibook here, so I'm not sure skype is going to work).
[03:28] <jblack> I'm using skype, but I can call a landline. 
[03:28] <jblack> The numbery ou gave me last time was not a landline. It was billed as a mobile
[03:28] <ddaa> Well... it's technically not a GSM
[03:29] <ddaa> but it's definitely a not-quite-standard line...
[03:29] <jblack> That was ok, but instead of 3 cents a minute, it cost 21 cents a minute. Worth it still, but.. :) 
[03:29] <jblack> I have gnome-phone setup as well. I believe thats h323
[03:29] <ddaa> gnomemeeting you mean?
[03:29] <jblack> yeah.
[03:49] <ddaa> jblack: bah, just realised that my iBook does not have an external audio in...
[04:00] <SteveA> can't you just talk to it?
[04:01] <SteveA> brad did that with his powerbook
[04:03] <LarstiQ> the powerbooks do have audio in
[04:03] <LarstiQ> not sure if the ibooks have microphones
[04:03] <ddaa> LarstiQ: it does have built-in mic
[04:03] <ddaa> but not audio in...
[04:03] <SteveA> so you just need some clippers and solder...
[04:04] <LarstiQ> ddaa: you can talk to the built-in mic?
[04:04] <LarstiQ> at the 22c3, some people almost made contact with their laptop when speaking during a talk
[04:05] <bradb> ddaa: the built-in mic should be amazingly good
[04:05] <ddaa> LarstiQ: probably, but I'm unwilling to remove my lappy from the it's cocoon of expensive desktop peripherals.
[04:06] <jblack> ddaa, stevea: Back.
[04:06] <jblack> Fed and coffeed
[04:06] <LarstiQ> Coffed
[04:07] <SteveA> jblack: my food is still on its way.  the pasta has another 5 minutes
[04:07] <jblack> Ok. Take your time.
[04:07] <jblack> Thats more coffee for me
[04:08] <jblack> I'll talk to ddaa first
[04:08] <ddaa> jblack call my adsl phone (the pseudo landline) or let's have a private chat
[04:09] <jblack> Ok. calling pink panther
[04:16] <jblack> ddaa: for example, mdz:  http://bazaar.launchpad.net/00/00/02/22
[04:16] <jblack> Try bzr branch on that
[04:19] <jblack> thats not a good exfample, as mdz's branch isn't good
[04:19] <jblack> Except I seem to be having a problem.
[04:20] <LarstiQ> it's giving met NotBranchError
[04:20] <jblack> Yeah, me too.
[04:21] <jblack> Ahh. Here's one that works: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/00/00/02/24
[04:23] <SteveA> jblack, daf: i want to fit in a visit to the gym between now and a meeting i have at 1800 UTC.  So, I want to leave in 45 minutes.
[04:23] <SteveA> jblack: please ping me when you're done with ddaa
[04:23] <jblack> I'm done
[04:23] <SteveA> oh, cool
[04:23] <jblack> stevea: ping
[04:23] <jblack> =)
[04:23] <ddaa> jblack: right I can do a checkout from outside the DC. Now I need the URL to use from within the DC. Say, chinstrap, for example.
[04:24] <jblack> ddaa: As far as I know, that _is_ the url to use.
[04:24] <jblack> I'll talk with rob about it
[04:25] <ddaa> bazaar.launchpad.net does not seem to be routable from chinstrap
[04:25] <kiko> hello there
[04:30] <ddaa> jblack: ha, found it. The bzrsyncd host is gandwana
[04:31] <ddaa> that's the place from which I need to use the id-based urls.
[04:31] <ddaa> jblack: thanks, it works!!!
[04:35] <ddaa> SteveA: you can have jblack all for yourself now.
[04:42] <ddaa> SteveA: thank you for the advance notice about the bzr/launchpad sprint in march.
[04:43] <ddaa> If I get to vote, I'd pick UK as a location.
[04:44] <LarstiQ> is the /00/00/02/24 scheme final?
[04:44] <ddaa> that's just an internal thing
[04:44] <ddaa> you absolutely do not need to know about it
[04:44] <ddaa> ideally, it should not even be public
[04:44] <LarstiQ> can I reference ~lifeless/bzr/integration later on?
[04:45] <ddaa> LarstiQ: yes he ~user/product/branch is what to use.
[04:45] <ddaa> and it's working now
[04:45] <LarstiQ> great
[04:45] <ddaa> except the web UI is still seriously lacking in advertising it
[04:46] <ddaa> one of the things I should fix once I get around to (hopefully before march)
[04:48] <LarstiQ> hmm, should http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lifeless/pqm/trunk work then?
[04:49] <mdz> jblack: what's wrong with my branch?
[04:49] <mdz> I haven't been able to get LP to scan any of my bzr data
[04:49] <ddaa> mdz: sure, the branch scanning thingy is not running yet
[04:49] <ddaa> and there's no error reporting either...
[04:49] <LarstiQ> I thought it was?
[04:50] <ddaa> LarstiQ: what's working is the branch mirroring thingy.
[04:51] <ddaa> LarstiQ: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~lifeless/pqm/trunk _should_ work.
[04:52] <ddaa> sorry for the delay guys, but deploying all the moving parts has been a coordination nightmare... we're seeing the end of tunnel now.
[04:56] <LarstiQ> ddaa: It isn't looking like a branch to me
[04:56] <ddaa> does not work for me either
[04:56] <LarstiQ> ddaa: thanks for the effort, things just start working without me looking, that's nice
[04:57] <ddaa> When I'm through my email I'll know whether there are error reports I can check. But I do not know yet. If they are missing I'll nag jblack.
[04:58] <ddaa> when talking with lifeless before my vacation I discovered that a whole error handling system was thought of, but right now we are still in "get it to work, damnit!" mode.
[04:58] <LarstiQ> heh
[05:40] <jblack> Don't nag me.
[06:54] <sabdfl> SteveA: chatting to tom@uue.org
[06:54] <sabdfl> do you want me to create zubuntu in LP?
[06:55] <sabdfl> Keybuk: quick Planet question
[06:55] <Keybuk> sure
[06:55] <Keybuk> shoot
[06:56] <sabdfl> what do i need to generate a Planet config?
[06:56] <sabdfl> user blog rss feed url's?
[06:56] <sabdfl> user gotchie url/
[06:56] <sabdfl> 's?
[06:56] <Keybuk> URL to their rss/atom/etc. feed
[06:56] <sabdfl> name?
[06:56] <Keybuk> Real Name to put alongside them
[06:56] <sabdfl> anything else?
[06:56] <Keybuk> URL for hackergotchi
[06:56] <Keybuk> nope, that's it
[06:57] <Keybuk> unless Jeff has added anything else recently, but I don't think he has
[06:57] <Keybuk> it looks basically like
[06:57] <Keybuk> [rss feed url] 
[06:57] <Keybuk> name = Real Name
[06:57] <Keybuk> face = hackergotchi url
[06:57] <Keybuk> \n
[06:58] <sabdfl> nice
[06:58] <kiko> sabdfl, do you need a new distribution created?
[06:58] <sabdfl> for a given blog, do you always want to store BOTH a direct URL to the blog AND an RSS feed url?
[06:58] <sabdfl> kiko: i can do it
[06:59] <kiko> okay
[07:00] <Keybuk> Planet gets the "url to the blog" from the RSS feed itself
[07:00] <kiko> sabdfl, is there anything else that needs doing apart from adding the distribution? I mean, the main use will be allowing bugs to be associated with it, at the moment, right?
[07:00] <Keybuk> in lp though, you may want that as a pretty field for the people pages
[07:07] <sabdfl> https://launchpad.net/distros/zubuntu/
[07:07] <sabdfl> Keybuk: do all blogs have RSS feeds?
[07:07] <Keybuk> not always
[07:08] <Keybuk> though it's very common now
[07:08] <sabdfl> ok, so we should allow the user to give one, or both, at their option
[07:08] <Keybuk> yeah
[07:08] <Keybuk> also you may want to find a better term than "RSS feed" as Atom is just as valid (and better)
[07:08] <Keybuk> though I don't know what, I still call them RSS feeds <g>
[07:50] <sivang> sabdfl: wow :)
[07:51] <sivang> ubuntu on the zseries...
[08:12] <tuhl> how is it possible to add people to a distro?
[08:12] <kiko> tuhl, people aren't directly associated to distros -- rather, to teams.
[08:13] <tuhl> ok
[08:14] <tuhl> how can I add the team zseries to Zubuntu
[08:14] <tuhl> I don't have the necessary permissions
[08:15] <kiko> I wonder if what you would like to do is assign Zubuntu to the zseries team.
[08:15] <ddaa> jblack: where can I find the logs for the bzr mirroring script?
[08:15] <ddaa> actually, _scripts_
[08:16] <tuhl> ok this way round
[08:16] <jblack> You want the supermirror scripts? 
[08:16] <ddaa> jblack: yes
[08:16] <jblack> They're in two secure locations. My laptop and vostok.
[08:16] <ddaa> so I can diagnose thinks like "~lifeless/pqm/trunk is broken".
[08:17] <jblack> Do you need a fire-and-forget copy, or continual access? 
[08:17] <ddaa> Is there a reason why they are not sent to launchpad-error-reports like all the other cronjob logs?
[08:17] <jblack> it sounds like you're talking about logs agian
[08:17] <ddaa> I need continual access. So far is the only error reporting system we have.
[08:18] <ddaa> I never talked about something else.
[08:18] <kiko> wow, the page https://launchpad.net/distros/zubuntu/+members is really confusing.
[08:18] <jblack> Ok. There are no logs
[08:18] <tuhl> kiko: I dont find a menu item to do that
[08:18] <ddaa> jblack: how are errors reported?
[08:18] <jblack> At this moment, they're not
[08:18] <kiko> tuhl, let me figure out how this works.
[08:19] <ddaa> jblack: you do get errors messages, don't you?
[08:19] <jblack> No, I don't.
[08:20] <ddaa> jblack: you mean the mirror script produces _no_ output whatsoever?
[08:20] <kiko> tuhl, better?
[08:21] <jblack> The stage-1 supermirror has no clue what happens to branches it tries to mirror. There's no logs. No emails, no xml-rpc. If it fails, it doesn't know
[08:22] <ddaa> I have trouble fathoming a piece of software that does not know it's failing...
[08:22] <jblack> For a supermirror, failing to mirror a branch isn't a failure
[08:22] <ddaa> I mean, exceptions are about knowing something broke...
[08:23] <jblack> Thats rather the point. If a branch fails to mirror, it doesn't necessarily mean that the supermirror is broken. it can mean the branch is broken.
[08:23] <jblack> it almost always means the branch is broken.
[08:23] <LarstiQ> don't you want to know that?
[08:23] <jblack> Yes, we want to know.
[08:23] <ddaa> Then, how do you diagnose things like "I can checkout pqm truck from the source url, but not from the SM"?
[08:23] <jblack> Right now, you can't.
[08:24] <LarstiQ> jblack: but you should, ideally?
[08:24] <jblack> larsiq: of course.
[08:24] <LarstiQ> ok
[08:24] <jblack> We're trying out a new stages development process.
[08:24] <jblack> we broke this down into several parts. Different requiements exist at different parts.
[08:24] <ddaa> jblack: I'd really like to have some sort, any sort, of monitoring facility.
[08:25] <jblack> To complete a stage, you must implement that particular stage as quickly as possible. Other functionality (such as logging) is saved for later stages.
[08:25] <LarstiQ> jblack: I'm just surprised
[08:25] <jblack> result reporting is a stage-2 item.
[08:25] <jblack> The implemented supermirror is at stage-1
[08:25] <LarstiQ> jblack: logging looks like fairly basic for debugging?
[08:25] <ddaa> jblack: can you come up with something _really_ crude soon?
[08:26] <jblack> Yeah, I can have something really crude soon.
[08:26] <jblack> I've got work for it here.
[08:26] <LarstiQ> of course, I'm not aware of the complexity involved
[08:26] <daq4th> tuhl: looks better now
[08:27] <jblack> I think you guys are disconnected about what's going on here. reporting and logging is important, and _will_ happen
[08:27] <jblack> However, the lowest hanging fruit was "make it work". Now, we can cope with "make it work right"
[08:27] <ddaa> LarstiQ: before christmast, we've spent like a month pinging one another to coordinate the deployement and final fixes. It's quite complex. Many moving parts and crossed responsibility boundaries.
[08:28] <ddaa> jblack: well... I consider "tell me when it does not work" to be quite closely related to "make it work"...
[08:28] <ddaa> but I see how it makes sense.
[08:28] <jblack> There's a _full_ set of test cases.
[08:29] <jblack> Right now though, the call to _mirror passes on exceptions.
[08:29] <jblack> That just needs to change to catching known exceptions and printing a warning on stderr.
[08:29] <jblack> That will cause cron to mail. 
[08:29] <ddaa> on a hourly basis, right?
[08:30] <jblack> right now its hourly, at 10 minutes past the hour
[08:30] <ddaa> one mail per hours with a complete report for all failures on that run fits my expectation for a crude solution.
[08:30] <jblack> Ok.
[08:30] <ddaa> It's gross. But it's better than nothing.
[08:31] <ddaa> No, seriously.
[08:31] <ddaa> It's exactly whan I meant when I said "something crude".
[08:31] <jblack> if you want to speed this along, give me a list of exceptions that mirror can throw that you're interested in me catching and reporting.
[08:31] <ddaa> Right now, all of them.
[08:32] <LarstiQ> jblack: aye, I can see it making sense, and I am disconnected
[08:32] <jblack> In order to work in the test framework, they need to be caught individually and complained about.
[08:32] <jblack> I'm _not_ going to make a promise to do all umpteen of them in a "soon" timeframe.
[08:33] <ddaa> It's going to be needed _anyway_.
[08:33] <jblack> Would it be enough to know that there _was_ an error? 
[08:33] <jblack> and I not report what? 
[08:33] <ddaa> You can handle all the "bad url" and "bad service" by specific excepts, but sooner or later we're going to get corrupt data or bzr bugs.
[08:34] <jblack> We already have all of those
[08:34] <jblack> Today.
[08:34] <jblack> somewhere around 1-2 to  3/4 of the branches you're feeding me are broken in a varieety of ways.
[08:35] <ddaa> So, I'd start by a bare except that says which branch it's about, and which url, and which branch in the SM filesystem, and then start building smarter things for expected failures.
[08:35] <jblack> non existant, timeouts, ancient formats, missing revisions.. 
[08:35] <jblack> thats just the ones I've noticed.
[08:35] <ddaa> jblack: users are feeding you branches, not I. Don't shoot the messenger.
[08:35] <jblack> I'm not shooting you.
[08:36] <jblack> I'm letting you know whats out there.
[08:36] <jblack> Here's a bit of a problem that I have with this part of the code.
[08:36] <jblack> I'm using TDD for this. Which means "no test, no new code"
[08:36] <jblack> I find it difficult to emulate the various problems that are seen in The Wild.
[08:37] <ddaa> Yeah, you can go only this far.
[08:37] <jblack> No test, no code, no code, no specific catch, no specific catch, general error
[08:37] <ddaa> * only so far
[08:37] <Mez> I cant approve members for a team aTM
[08:37] <ddaa> jblack: I'm happy to start with error overflow.
[08:37] <jblack> meaning?
[08:38] <ddaa> general error with backtrace and jeff's mum journal on any error.
[08:38] <kiko> tuhl?
[08:38] <jblack> I don't know if thats possible.
[08:38] <LarstiQ> jblack: how hard is it to find out what goes wrong with https://launchpad.net/people/lifeless/+branch/bzr/integration ?
[08:38] <jblack> A single backtrace on a single bad branch kills the whole supermirror.
[08:38] <ddaa> hu?
[08:39] <LarstiQ> jblack: controlled backtrace, not an uncaught exception?
[08:39] <jblack> Oh, I don't know how to do that
[08:40] <LarstiQ> import traceback; traceback.print_tb() ?
[08:40] <LarstiQ> jblack: http://docs.python.org/lib/module-traceback.html
[08:40] <jblack> I have no problem with doing that, though the output will be quite long
[08:41] <jblack> Like I said. most branches fail
[08:41] <jblack> Ok. I understand what you need. 
[08:42] <jblack> I need some food and a nap and I'll get right on it. K?
[08:42] <ddaa> It's not in such a hurry.
[08:42] <jblack> shew
[08:42] <ddaa> When I said "soon" I mean "within a week or so".
[08:42] <jblack> Oh, ok. thats no problem at all.
[08:43] <jblack> With all the people chasing me these days, I'm begging for a network outage just so I can do some work.
[08:43] <ddaa> I think that's normal
[08:43] <ddaa> everybody is going back from vacation and resyncing.
[08:44] <jblack> Yup
[08:44] <jblack> I should try a new approach?
[08:44] <jblack> No senor. Yo no hablo no ingles. 
[08:44] <jblack> Ok. food
[08:46] <ddaa> jblack: sys.excepthook(*sys.exc_info())
[08:47] <ddaa> that should print the current exception exactly like it would appear if it was not caught.
[08:47] <jblack> can you drop that off in email for me? 
[08:47] <jblack> please?
[08:47] <ddaa> Okay, I'll drop you a mail my with wishes for tasteless error pr0n.
[08:48] <ddaa> Tasteful comes later :)
[08:48] <LarstiQ> hehe
[08:48] <jblack> Like I just told two other people... :) 
[08:48] <jblack> "Yeah, I understand that you really need this. I'm workin<snap> I drive daisy to head. Eat blue tables"
[08:48] <ddaa> jblack: what about a vacation?
[08:48] <jblack> I'll be so insane, that I could move in with Tom Lord.
[08:49] <jblack> Nah. I don't need a vacation. I just need to get through everyone coming back
[08:49] <ddaa> I say you need a vacation. You look worn out.
[08:50] <jblack> Heh. I'm fine. 
[08:50] <ddaa> okay
[08:50] <tuhl> kiko: yes
[08:50] <kiko> tuhl, look good?
[08:51] <tuhl> kiko: we can't add mile stones
[08:52] <kiko> tuhl, can you point me to a URL?
[08:52] <tuhl> kiko: https://launchpad.net/distros/zubuntu/+addmilestone
[08:53] <tuhl> Oliver and me should have maximum rights
[08:53] <tuhl> Oliver (daq4th) 
[08:54] <kiko> tuhl, /neither/ of you can add milestones?
[08:57] <tuhl> daq4th: can you add one?
[08:59] <kiko> tuhl, at least the user thomas-uhl should be able to
[09:00] <tuhl> kiko: sorry I get          Sorry, you don't have permission to access this page
[09:00] <kiko> that's remarkable. and you're logged in as thomas-uhl?
[09:00] <tuhl> yes of course
[09:01] <kiko> I can add milestones for you if you file a bug for me
[09:01] <kiko> you should be able to add them, given you own the distribution in question
[09:01] <bradb> To add a milestone to a distro, you need launchpad.Edit permission to edit the distro.
[09:02] <bradb> Reading security.py, it looks like our policy says that only admins have launchpad.Edit permission on distros.
[09:02] <tuhl> bradb: I don't have these (yet)
[09:03] <kiko> thanks bradb 
[09:03] <kiko> it's a bug
[09:03] <bradb> tuhl: Can you file a quick bug report about this so that we remember to look at it later?
[09:04] <bradb> tuhl: http://launchpad.net/products/malone/+filebug
[09:04] <kiko> bradb, it's not a malone bug.
[09:05] <bradb> tuhl: or http://launchpad.net/products/launchpad/+filebug then ;)
[09:09] <tuhl> Done: Bug #6430
[09:13] <bradb> tuhl: Thanks for the bringing the problem to our attention. We need more users like you. ;)
[09:13] <kiko> thanks
[09:14] <daq4th> bradb: you want one for "https://launchpad.net/distros/zubuntu/+builds" as well?
[09:14] <bradb> daq4th: Yes please! :)
[09:17] <el-singerl> hi, how long will suggestions be disabled ?
[09:18] <el-singerl> does somebody know ?`
[09:20] <SteveA> el-singerl: they should be back with the next production update, which will be early next week
[09:20] <SteveA> they were disabled because many translation pages just weren't loading at all
[09:21] <el-singerl> yes, the site is a bit lagging
[09:30] <SteveA> kiko: i just disabled the update stats cron script too, in case that helps.  stu can look into it tomorrow
[09:33] <kiko> thanks.
[09:33] <kiko> SteveA, GO TO BED
[09:33] <popenorbert> Wow, I made it!  I havn't been on IRC in years ... thought I'd forgotton everything :)
[09:34] <mdke> welcome back popenorbert 
[09:35] <kiko> hey
[09:35] <kiko> does anyone know why we got a number of duplicated messages from PQM the last month, some dating a couple of days apart? bradb, BjornT?
[09:35] <popenorbert> Just downloaded Ubuntu and wanted to make sure I could get in here ... Have a great day.
[09:36] <kiko> thanks
[09:36] <bradb> kiko: Nope, that was a mystery to me too.
[09:37] <kiko> bradb, okay, I found out what it is, see message from rob to launchpad list on december 20th
[09:40] <kiko> bradb, can you tell me what's on your plate this week?
[09:41] <bradb> kiko: BugStatusChangesAsComments, improving the error handling on that form along the way. Probably fix some random bugs while waiting fot that review.
[09:42] <kiko> the name of that spec seems to suggest the wrong idea, doesn't it?
[09:43] <bradb> kiko: It's about bringing status changes into the bug comments, so it's not too far off.
[10:05] <mpt> Gooooooooooooooooooood morning Launchpadders!
[10:06] <LarstiQ> hello mpt
[10:10] <mpt> carlos, ping
[10:10] <carlos> mpt, pong
[10:10] <bradb> Hey mpt. Heads up: I'm editing bugtask-edit.pt, including making the layout not look stoopid.
[10:11] <mpt> bradb, great
[10:12] <mpt> carlos, would you be able to reply to Abel Cheung's message of December 21st?
[10:12] <mpt> (in rosetta-users@)
[10:14] <mpt> it looks like it might be a bug in Rosetta
[10:14] <carlos> mpt, is jordi's job that kind of mails, I suppose he missed it... Anyway, we have a bug report about not listing the completely untranslated templates. I will reply now
[10:19] <mpt> ah!
[10:19] <mpt> carlos, no worries, I've found the bug so I can do it if you like
[10:21] <carlos> mpt, that would be good, I'm a bit busy atm...
[10:21] <carlos> mpt, thanks
[11:12] <mpt> bradb, ping
[11:13] <bradb> mpt: pong
[11:13] <mpt> bradb, about BugStatusChangesAsComments
[11:14] <mpt> will changes to the Keywords field be presented the same way as changes to, say, the Description field?
[11:15] <mpt> oh, sorry, you're calling it Comment on Change
[11:15] <bradb> mpt: SimpleBugKeywords is a different thing.
[11:16] <mpt> I think comments on changes should be discouraged
[11:16] <mpt> e.g. if you're just assigning a bug to someone, you shouldn't clutter the bug report with "assigning this to X"
[11:17] <mpt> because the inline history already shows that
[11:17] <carlos> see you tomorrow
[11:17] <mpt> night carlos
[11:17] <bradb> It's painful not being able to explain one's change, and has even scorned jbailey from *ever* filing bugs for a certain project again.
[11:17] <mpt> would that certain project start with L?
[11:18] <bradb> mpt: One would hope that you're not adding a change comment when assigning to bug to someone ;)
[11:18] <bradb> mpt: No.
[11:18] <bradb> s/to bug to/a bug to/
[11:19] <mpt> bradb, well, it's a Bugzillaism -- Bugzilla has never shown inline history, and that was hacked around by *forcing* people to add a comment for some changes, so people ended up making comments like "." or "/"
[11:19] <mpt> or "asdf"
[11:19] <mpt> sorry, I'm rambling
[11:20] <mpt> but if it's Comment on Change, it shouldn't be a field that retains its contents, just like the "Add a comment" field in the main bug report page doesn't contain the last comment by default
[11:20] <mpt> it should be empty
[11:20] <bradb> mpt: In my implementation, it is empty.
[11:20] <mpt> ok, cool
[11:21] <bradb> No plan ever survives contact with the real world; that spec is already in need of updating to match what I've done.
[11:23] <mpt> ugh, "Add comment to this bug" is broken
[11:23] <bradb> mpt: My guess is that jamesh broke it.
[11:23] <mpt> yes
[11:23] <mpt> now 2 clicks + 1 drag instead of 1 click
[11:24] <mpt> mdz, ping
[11:37] <sabdfl> mpt: did you see my comments on the retargeting specs bug?
[11:40] <kiko-afk> sabdfl, mdz's email there is not far from hilarious 
[11:41] <mpt> sabdfl, not yet, looking
[11:42] <mpt> sabdfl, do you have the number handy? I don't seem to have any bugmail from you
[11:43] <sabdfl> mpt: 3426
[11:43] <mpt> Happy New Year, btw :-)
[11:43] <mpt> thanks
[11:44] <sabdfl> to you too, and thanks for the christmas card!
[11:44] <sabdfl> that functionality has been there since the middle of UBZ
[11:45] <mpt> ok, it was Celso who reported the bug
[11:45] <mpt> I haven't paid much attention to the spec admin interface, so I didn't know
[11:45] <mpt> but, holy crap, that's a long menu
[11:48] <mpt> He reported the bug well before UBZ, too, so it was quite valid at the time :-)
[11:55] <mdz> mpt: pong
[11:56] <mpt> mdz, got time to talk about Malone for a few minutes?
[11:59] <kiko-zzz> that's enough!
[11:59] <mpt> uh oh, kiko-zzz's talking in his sleep again
[12:01] <mdz> mpt: ok
[12:02] <mpt> mdz, how much have you used debbugs? (I can't tell from the debbugs search function)
[12:02] <mdz> mpt: lots
[12:02] <mdz> (there's a search function in debbugs?)
[12:03] <mpt> mdz, ok, so ... Has the fact that debbugs has only Severity and not Priority ever bothered you?
[12:04] <mdz> only?
[12:04] <mpt> (http://www.debian.org/Bugs/ ... doesn't allow searching for substrings, hence "mdz" returns 0 matches)
[12:04] <mdz> no, it hasn't