[12:02] <fabbione> at least the concepts were not expressed in the same terms/words i would have used in english :)
[12:02] <seb128> elmo: if you don't want to bother, "setxkbmap -layout 'ca' -model pc102" should do the trick
[12:03] <elmo> seb128: I tried that xkbcomp thing, and it said:
[12:03] <elmo> sytntax error: line 1 of stdin
[12:03] <elmo> Errors encountered in stdin; not compiled.
[12:03] <elmo> setxkbmap directly kills the UKishness, but it's not quebicistani
[12:04] <jdub> fabbione: do you want me to make that 10k icon the server team icon on the fridge?
[12:04] <fabbione> jdub: use the one from LP
[12:04] <fabbione> that's acutally the same :P
[12:04] <jdub> ok :)
[12:04] <seb128> elmo: ups, it lacks a -print
[12:05] <fabbione> jdub: btw.. remind me to send you 10 quid
[12:05] <seb128> elmo: setxkbmap -layout 'ca,gb' -model pc105 -option '' -print | xkbcomp - :0.0
[12:05] <elmo> ok, no errors, just warnings
[12:05] <seb128> hum, weird that it bugs from GNOME, that's basically what the keyboard configurator should do
[12:06] <seb128> I'll give it a try on a breezy box later
[12:06] <elmo> ok, and X's idea of a .ca keyboard is realy not jiving with this laptop
[12:06] <seb128> for the moment you should be in ca keyboard
[12:06] <elmo> seb128: yeah, I am after running that command
[12:07] <fabbione> jdub: btw.. where did you find out about the interview? i didn't really make it public
[12:07] <Burgwork> fabbione, it just hit osnews
[12:07] <jdub> fabbione: i have spies. but it also hit osnews.
[12:07] <fabbione> ah
[12:07] <seb128> elmo: could you run "gconftool-2 -R /desktop/gnome/peripherals/keyboard/kbd" ?
[12:07] <jdub> fabbione: which means you're going to be flamed ;-)
[12:08] <fabbione> i don't care :)
[12:20] <elmo> holy cow
[12:20] <elmo> X really does not have a keymap which is even close to this one
[12:20] <elmo> quebicistan: 1, x.org: 0
[12:21] <Mithrandir> you have a quebec.ca keyboard?
[12:23] <elmo>  layouts = [ca] 
[12:23] <elmo>  model =
[12:23] <elmo>  options = [grp grp:alts_toggle] 
[12:23] <elmo>  overrideSettings = true
[12:23] <elmo> seb128: ^--
[12:23] <elmo> Mithrandir: one of the laptops from UBZ
[12:25] <seb128> elmo: setxkbmap -layout 'ca,gb' -model pc102 -option 'grp:alts_toggle' -print | xkbcomp - :0.0
[12:25] <seb128> elmo: does that work
[12:25] <elmo> oh, no, errors!
[12:25] <seb128> k, so it's xorg bog
[12:26] <jbailey> elmo: X does have it, but you have to install in French to get it, IIRC.
[12:26] <seb128> it doesn't like the 'grp:alts_toggle' option combined with 2 keymaps
[12:26] <elmo> jbailey: say what now?
[12:26] <jbailey> elmo: I had the problem that I install in french and had to beat it to give me US layout.
[12:26] <seb128> that's bugzilla http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/show_bug.cgi?id=15372
[12:26] <seb128> and is fixed with dapper xorg it seems (works fine on my box)
[12:26] <elmo> oh the one half the world is Cced on, including me, I remember that bug
[12:27] <elmo> jbailey: how does installing in french open up more keymaps?
[12:27] <jbailey> elmo: No, it seemed to default to French.
[12:27] <jbailey> elmo: Which was particularily annoying.
[12:27] <jbailey> I've never tried installing in English when I wanted a French Canadian keyboard.
[12:28] <jbailey> So I don't know how to find that layout.
[12:28] <fabbione> jdub: i love you!
[12:29] <lucas> be careful, such claims could end up in a topic ;)
[12:29] <elmo> jbailey: I'm entirely confused
[12:30] <fabbione> jdub: that note on the itaglish is perfect
[12:31] <sabdfl> Mithrandir: any movement on t-bird 1.5?
[12:32] <fabbione> jdub: you forgot the logo on the fridge ;)
[12:32] <fabbione> for the server team :)
[12:33] <jdub> fabbione: it only uses the logo of the first category, and atm the 'interviews' category doesn't have one ;)
[12:33] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: infinity has taken over thunderbird, I think he was waiting for something, but I can't remember what.
[12:33] <fabbione> jdub: oh i see
[12:34] <Mithrandir> sabdfl: he should be around soon though, so ask him then?
[12:35] <maswan> fabbione: nice interview. just remembered one thing for server candy stuff, deadline or cfq as default io scheduler, perhaps? I'm off for bed now though, so just a bit of a placeholder idea to you. :)
[12:35] <fabbione> maswan: the schedulers are there. user should decide the one he wants
[12:36] <fabbione> maswan: it's a boot parameter :)
[12:36] <fabbione> but yes, we could mention it somewhere
[12:36] <Mithrandir> fabbione: antipacitory isn't a good default choice for servers, imo.
[12:36] <maswan> fabbione: sure, I know, but isn't part of ubuntuism to provide good defaults?
[12:36] <elmo> fabbione: IMNSHO anything other than deadline for server is madness
[12:37] <HiddenWolf> ubuntuism, better watch it, or that'll be in the dictionary shortly.
[12:37] <elmo> and in any event AS is insane, cfq might be arguable
[12:37] <elmo> but I really do think choosing deadline as default makes sense for server
[12:37] <fabbione> ok
[12:38] <elmo> seb128: I guess I should reopen this bug then?
[12:38] <ericf>  against what package should I file installer-bugs in the dapper flight2 cd?
[12:40] <seb128> elmo: copy the  " setxkbmap -layout 'ca,gb' -model pc102 -option 'grp:alts_toggle' -print | xkbcomp - :0.0" and the error to a comment ... not sure if it should be open, it's fixed with dapper
[12:40] <seb128> elmo: depending of if daniels wants to get a fixed version to breezy-updates too
[12:40] <elmo> yeah, do we want it fixed in breezy tho?
[12:40] <elmo> there seems to be a lot of angry users
[12:40] <seb128> would be nice
[12:40] <seb128> yep, quite a bunch of dups, would be really nice to get it fixed
[12:41] <elmo> ok, reopened
[12:41] <seb128> elmo: thanks
[12:42] <seb128> elmo: could you sync poppler from Debian?
[12:44] <elmo> seb128: done
[12:44] <seb128> thanks
[12:46] <sistpoty> elmo: please sync fpc from unstable, which has been removed from ubuntu. thx.
[12:54] <uenyioha> does anyone know if there's a problem with this syscall
[12:55] <uenyioha> getpgid
[12:56] <uenyioha> i've included the right header file but the compiler keeps throwing an "implicit function declaration" error
[12:58] <Kamion> elmo: on home directories, at Zeus I used to NFS-share a home directory between maybe 20 or so different machines on about 10 different Unix variants
[12:59] <Kamion> with some fairly wildly different architectures. worked fine, as long as you don't count the total weirdness necessary in .bashrc to deal with things like getting a freaking sane terminal on HP-UX
[12:59] <sistpoty> uenyioha: no, works fine here... but I guess that's a little offtopic for -devel
[01:03] <Kamion> uenyioha: the man page is a little lacking; getpgid() is an extension over some older standards, so you need special feature defines to get it
[01:04] <Kamion> uenyioha: any of 1) '#define _XOPEN_SOURCE' and '#define _XOPEN_SOURCE_EXTENDED' 2) '#define _XOPEN_SOURCE 500' 3) '#define _GNU_SOURCE' will do the job
[01:04] <Kamion> uenyioha: see "info libc 'Feature Test Macros'" for more information
[01:05] <uenyioha> Kamion: thx...it seems to work in a test proggy i wrote
[01:05] <uenyioha> Kamion: sans the info you just mentioned
[01:06] <Kamion> it's only a warning, not an error, unless you're using -Werror
[01:07] <Kamion> and you won't get it at all unless you're compiling with -Werror-implicit-function-declaration (or just -Wall)
[01:07] <uenyioha> Kamion: yeah thats true...im using -Wall -Werror actually
[01:08] <Kamion> you have to be prepared to be moderately pedantic then :)
[01:08] <uenyioha> Kamion: thx...you saved me a few hours of hair pulling
[01:09] <Kamion> uenyioha: ah, it actually is in the man page, just not in the usual place - look down in the NOTES section near the bottom
[01:09] <Kamion> I guess they put it there because there are a few alternative ways to get the prototypes
[01:11] <uenyioha> Kamion: see why mama said always read the notes in the manpage :-)
[01:16] <lucas> is that on purpose ?
[01:17] <raphink> huh?
[01:17] <Amaranth> is one in universe?
[01:17] <lucas> yes
[01:17] <Amaranth> there you go then
[01:17] <lucas> debian's openoffice.org package is 2.0.0-5
[01:18] <lucas> while ubuntu's is 1.1.5-0ubuntu1
[01:18] <HiddenWolf> lucas, openoffice.org2 is what you're looking for.
[01:19] <lucas> HiddenWolf: I know, I was just thinking that having openoffice 1.1.5 on the mirrors might be useless
[01:19] <HiddenWolf> people might still want to use it.
[01:19] <HiddenWolf> they might not think ooo2 is cool, or whatever.
[01:19] <lucas> also, it's one of the most used packages in universe according to popcon
[01:19] <Kamion> it's been demoted to universe because Debian still has it; in general we don't go around proactively removing stuff, we just demote it to universe
[01:19] <lucas> ok
[01:20] <lucas> but then,what should be done about it ?
[01:20] <Kamion> lucas: dude, it was in the default installation in warty/hoary ... of course it'll be widely used
[01:20] <Kamion> nothing?
[01:20] <lucas> just sync it from debian ? (which would sync 2.0.0-5)
[01:20] <lucas> ok
[01:20] <Kamion> I imagine doko wants to handle that fairly carefully
[01:20] <HiddenWolf> dude, 2 is in ubuntu already
[01:21] <lucas> HiddenWolf: I know that
[01:25] <doko> yes, the sync is coming. the reason I still stick to the "2" naming scheme is to provide an update for breezy
[01:26] <hunger> Why was the chmod 1777 /tmp removed from the bootclean.sh script?
[01:26] <slomo> elmo: can you please remove the gtk-sharp2-unstable source package? it has been renamed to gtk-sharp2 some weeks ago
[01:27] <HiddenWolf> Diziet, ping
[01:30] <hunger> libsane does not upgrade cleanly here since /etc/hotplug.d/usb does no longer exist on my system.
[01:31] <slomo> hunger: same for /etc/hotplug.d/usb and /etc/sane.d/usb ;)
[01:33] <Kamion> heh, d'oh, my fault, will fix
[01:37] <Kamion> hunger: fix uploaded, thanks
[01:44] <hunger> Kamion: /etc/init.d/rc is borked!
[01:45] <hunger> Kamion: Shutdown stops in line 210 of said script. The last var used there is undefined and thus the expression does not compute.
[01:45] <hunger> Kamion: Plus my mounts no longer work, thus my homedir vanished. Might be a local problem though, I am still investigating.
[01:46] <Kamion> hunger: not my fault
[01:46] <Kamion> and I'm not in a position to investigate at the moment
[01:47] <hunger> Oh, one more thing: mdadm complains loudly about the devices it wants to create being there already.
[01:47] <Kamion> hunger: these are all Keybuk problems; file bugs
[01:48] <hunger> Kamion: That is a bit hard without a GUI:-(
[01:48] <hunger> Kamion: malone sucks even more with lynx than it normally does:-(
[01:49] <ogra_ibook> livecd ? 
[01:49] <hunger> pam_mount is completly borked as well.
[01:49] <hunger> ogra_ibook: Nah... I do not want to download and burn that without GUI apps.
[01:50] <ogra_ibook> oh, you dont have any ...
[01:50] <HiddenWolf> ouch, ubuntu nearly won the lugradio biggest letdown of the year award. :P
[01:50] <Kamion> hunger: you shouldn't be filing bugs about Ubuntu main in Malone yet anyway
[01:50] <hunger> ogra_ibook: So far I had no need for that:-)
[01:50] <ogra_ibook> oh, yes, that too
[01:50] <Kamion> they are almost guaranteed to be overlooked
[01:51] <HiddenWolf> Kamion, if you want to make that clear, put a big red notice up for main packages in malone for now.
[01:51] <HiddenWolf> otherwise, people will keep doing it.
[01:51] <hunger> Kamion: Not? Last time I was told to file malone bugs after breezy.
[01:51] <HiddenWolf> hunger, that _was_ the plan
[01:51] <hunger> Good to know that! I reported several issues in malone already.
[01:51] <Kamion> hunger: an announcement will be made when we switch, and bugzilla will be made read-only with a big notice
[01:52] <Kamion> HiddenWolf: I don't administer Malone and have no particular wish to do so. We'll pick up the bugs eventually
[01:52] <hunger> Kamion: How about making malone readonly for now?
[01:52] <ogra_ibook> hunger, its used for universe
[01:52] <Kamion> hunger: the universe guys would get kind of upset, since they're using it :-P
[01:52] <hunger> Kamion: Or at least give a warning that it shouldn't be used for main?
[01:53] <Kamion> hunger: anything cleverer will take away time from the Malone developers that they could be using to finish the transition from Bugzilla.
[01:53] <hunger> Kamion: Well, at least I do understand now why my bugreports tend to get ignored if I am not pestering people here:-)
[01:54] <Kamion> I think it's a waste of time tweaking it now because from what I can see the transition plan is fairly close to completion now
[01:54] <Kamion> it might have made sense to tweak it last year sometime
[01:55] <Kamion> hunger: the way they didn't get assigned to anyone might have been a clue :-)
[01:55] <Kamion> or have people auto-subscribed to them, or whatever the Malone terminology is this week ;)
[01:55] <hunger> Kamion: Well, I used gentoo for a while... never saw a bug getting assigned there;-)
[02:01] <hunger> Outch... mounting no longer works since I lost the keys to my partitions.
[02:04] <ogra_ibook> seb128, did the default for the panel clock change ? my date is gone after an upgrade ...
[02:05] <seb128> nop
[02:05] <seb128> oh, the default setting
[02:05] <seb128> yep
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> ahuman01, k
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> oops
[02:05] <seb128> that's an option of the applet, easy to change :)
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> silly tab completion
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> yup
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> i just noticed it
[02:05] <ogra_ibook> why was it changed ? 
[02:06] <ogra_ibook> i find the date very helpful there ...
[02:06] <seb128> probably because it takes some space on the panel which is expensive :p
[02:06] <ogra_ibook> sure
[02:07] <seb128> and you don't need the date all the time
[02:07] <seb128> and the tooltip has it
[02:08] <ogra_ibook> but one thing i noticed was that windows users are often positively impressed, its a very noticeable difference that you dont have to move your mouse over it to see the date like you have to do in win ...
[02:08] <HiddenWolf> agreed, having the date there is good.
[02:08] <ogra_ibook> sad that its gone from the default ... but i agree it takes panel space ...
[02:08] <seb128> we can still change the default if that's what users want
[02:08] <seb128> let's wait for some bugs or list mail about that
[02:09] <ogra_ibook> i dont really care, i'll enable it myself ... i just noticed the recation of some win users 
[02:10] <jdub> seb128: upstream default change?
[02:13] <seb128> jdub: yep
[02:15] <jdub> seb128: let's unfuck that :-)
[02:15] <ogra_ibook> heh
[02:15] <jdub> (and flame upstream)
[02:15] <jdub> seriously
[02:15] <seb128> 2005-12-30  Vincent Untz  <vuntz@gnome.org>
[02:15] <seb128>         * clock.schemas.in: don't show the date by default. Fix bug #313524.
[02:15] <seb128> vuntz !!
[02:16] <seb128> Untz Untz Untz
[02:16] <ogra_ibook> lol
[02:16] <jdub> one of the first things my MIL said when she started using ubuntu on her laptop was, "oh, i like how it shows the date all the time, that is really handy!"
[02:16] <jdub> vuntz: YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE, MISTER!
[02:16] <jdub> hrm, we should get ubugtu here
[02:16] <ogra_ibook> *giggle*
[02:16] <seb128> he wrote
[02:16] <seb128> "I always wondered why there's the date by default too. So I remove it
[02:16] <seb128> for now. Let's see if someone is unhappy ;-)"
[02:17] <hunger> Could someone pretty please fix /usr/bin/mount.crypt to handle LUKS volumes again?
[02:17] <seb128> Dear Vincent, jdub cried last night because of you
[02:17] <hunger> I can send a working copy of that script to whoever does it.
[02:17] <hunger> It is just two lines that need changing...
[02:18] <seb128> hunger: speak to who changed it :)
[02:18] <hunger> seb128: It never worked AFAICT:-)
[02:18] <ogra_ibook> hunger, open a bug, attach a patch ;)
[02:19] <seb128> hunger: so why do you say "again" :p
[02:19] <hunger> ogra_ibook: I opened two for it in malone. They are even assigned to pitti, but he said he does not have the time to look into them right now.
[02:19] <jdub> seb128: i reopened the bug :)
[02:20] <hunger> seb128: It used to work for me... but thinking about it I did not use LUKS back then:-)
[02:21] <seb128> hunger: ping pitti when he's around he did work on g-v-m/luks IIRC
[02:22] <seb128> jdub: nice comment :)
[02:22] <hunger> seb128: He said he does not have the time to do it... but I'll pester him some more:-)
[02:23] <ajmitch> hunger: it's in cryptsetup? if so, that's universe
[02:23] <seb128> I'm sure ajmitch will fix it for you :)
[02:23] <ajmitch> so I wouldn't blame pittit for not having time to hack on universe much ;)
[02:24] <ajmitch> seb128: yeah, I have other cryptsetup bugs, I just started playinh with LUKS a couple of days ago :)
[02:24] <hunger> ajmitch: It is part of libpam-mount.
[02:24] <ajmitch> still universe :)
[02:24] <marcin`> seb128: I vote for clock without date !
[02:24] <ajmitch> hey dholbach !
[02:24] <hunger> ajmitch: I got a new cryptsetup init script. Works way better for me... see malone #564
[02:25] <dholbach> re ajmitch :)
[02:25] <marcin`> seb128: hiding date is the first thing I always do on 'fresh' ubuntu installation
[02:25] <ajmitch> hunger: um
[02:25] <hunger> ajmitch: Aehm... #563
[02:25] <ajmitch> hunger: surely not 564 :)
[02:26] <ajmitch> ok, I'll take a look at them
[02:27] <ajmitch> once I get a new laptop that I can use this usb flash disk with  ;)
[02:27] <seb128> marcin`: there is no way to have everybody happy on that, that's why that's a setting :)
[02:28] <ajmitch> marcin`: I love having the date shown, it saves me wondering what month it is ;)
[02:28] <marcin`> ajmitch: but you always can turn it on...
[02:28] <Burgundavia> marcin`, options are nice, better defaults are king
[02:28] <ajmitch> but you can turn it off...
[02:29] <ajmitch> as Burgundavia says, it's a matter of sane defaults
[02:29] <ajmitch> I'm crazier than most & have the clock on 2 panels, 1 per screen
[02:29] <ajmitch> but I doubt we'd have that as default
[02:29] <marcin`> ok then I know what should you all do :)
[02:30] <marcin`> write small script that will install with gnome-panel and will report to some remote sever
[02:30] <marcin`> what users got on their desktops :)
[02:30] <marcin`> just get their gconf key
[02:30] <seb128> do a fridge pool :p
[02:31] <ogra_ibook> yeah
[02:31] <hunger> ajmitch: You want to checkout malone #6216 and #6257 if you want to play with LUKS and pam_mount.
[02:31] <ajmitch> I looked at them
[02:32] <hunger> ajmitch: Just added proper patches.
[02:32] <marcin`> kind of - something simmilar to ubuntu popularity-contest package
[02:33] <marcin`> rotfllll :)
[02:33] <marcin`> because of this discussion I turned on date on my clock applet
[02:34] <ogra_ibook> mdz, vagrant has some nice modifications to multiarch and some other fixes http://llama.freegeek.org/~vagrant/bzr-archives/ltsp/ubuntufixes/
[02:34] <marcin`> to see how it looks and.. found "UTC time" option :)
[02:34] <marcin`> and now I got correct time on my clock :D
[02:42] <sistpoty> elmo: pleasy sync rfb from unstable, ubuntu override ok. thx.
[02:44] <Kamion> what's the best glade editor/viewer around at the moment?
[02:44] <Kamion> I can't get gazpacho to display any tabs of a GtkNotebook other than the first, which makes it unusable for me
[02:45] <SEJeff> any thoughts on putting libpam-encfs n main for dapper if the broken encfs gets fixed?
[02:49] <SEJeff> having on the fly home directory encryption is a great feature for laptop users
[02:49] <hunger> SEJeff: What makes this better then pam-mount?
[02:49] <seb128> Kamion: glade itself :)
[02:49] <psusi> I wish someone would build something that could do on the fly file encryption like windows' efs, rather than encrypting the entire filesystem at the block layer
[02:50] <mdz> devel meeting in 10 minutes on #ubuntu-meeting
[02:50] <hunger> psusi: reiserfs4?
[02:50] <psusi> hunger, maybe some day...
[02:50] <Kamion> seb128: how do you get it to actually display what the glade looks like?
[02:50] <hunger> psusi: Yeah, I wouldn't trust my data to it at this time.
[02:50] <Kamion> I'm assuming glade-2 is the same thing here
[02:51] <hunger> Good night.
[02:51] <psusi> hunger, I'd use it if it were in the official kernel
[02:51] <seb128> Kamion: glade-2 ui.glade
[02:51] <seb128> you have a list of windows from the .glade, double click on one
[02:51] <hunger> psusi: Not till suse had it as default FS for a couple of month:-)
[02:52] <SEJeff> psusi, libpam-encfs
[02:52] <psusi> I make backups, and don't have anything THAT important... I'd love to play with it
[02:52] <psusi> SEJeff, that encrypts the entire filesystem at the block level
[02:52] <psusi> doens't it?
[02:52] <SEJeff> psusi, it encrypts the files and obsfucates the filenames
[02:52] <SEJeff> psusi, no
[02:52] <psusi> hrm...
[02:52] <pitti> hi
[02:52] <psusi> interesting... I'll have to look at it
[02:52] <SEJeff> psusi, so that you can do rsync backups on encrypted filesystems that are transparently decrypted when you login through gdm
[02:52] <mdz> pitti: good morning
[02:53] <seb128> "morning", hum hum
[02:53] <pitti> well, "middle of night" :)
[02:54] <Kamion> seb128: ah, righto, got it, thanks - I was trying to double-click on the widget tree which helpfully does absolutely nothing
[02:54] <psusi> pitti, hey... can a hal fdi policy invoke an external utility somehow to decide if it should match a rule?  I could probably figure that out of I could find some actual docs on it.. heh...
[02:54] <seb128> Kamion: np
[02:54] <ajmitch> hi pitti 
[02:55] <SEJeff> hunger, I have 0 experience with pam-mount so I can't really tell you. I would just like to see some sort of option in the installer to encrypt each users files to protect files incase of laptop theft
[02:55] <mdz> 5 minutes
[02:56] <pitti> psusi: hm, no idea, I never saw such a rule
[02:56] <hunger> SEJeff: It can be used to mount an encrypted filesystem.
[02:57] <psusi> pitti, do you know of any documentation for the policy file format, or am I just going to have to dive into the source some more? ;)
[02:57] <SEJeff> hunger, an encrypted filesystem... thats it's limitation. libpam-encfs encrypts per user, not per filesystem
[02:57] <hunger> SEJeff: It is actually rather comftable to use once you have set it up. Works no the fs only though.
[02:58] <hunger> SEJeff: All users are on a separate LVM volume here...
[02:58] <SEJeff> hunger, so libpam-encfs has a huge anvantage on a multi-user system over it. Unless you make /home/$USER a different volume. that can get ugly
[02:58] <SEJeff> hunger, I use lvm too, but that is suboptimal
[02:58] <psusi> hunger, outch.... what a pain
[02:58] <hunger> SEJeff: How does it protect the user's keyphrases.
[02:59] <hunger> psusi: Well, there is only me on this laptop plus a couple of test users:-)
[02:59] <psusi> yea... that means you have to allocate a fixed amount of space to each user... and that filesystem will tend to get fragmented on account of being mostly full
[02:59] <pitti> psusi: http://cvs.freedesktop.org/*checkout*/hal/hal/doc/spec/hal-spec.html?only_with_tag=HEAD
[02:59] <SEJeff> hunger, phone call. brb
[03:00] <hunger> SEJeff: lets talk tomorrow then... awfully late here.
[03:00] <hunger> Good night everybody.
[03:01] <psusi> night
[03:32] <Riddell> Keybuk: what is madwifi-ng and what's the status of network-manager for dapper?
[03:32] <Kamion> Mithrandir,mdz: direct svn URL to the X->console keymap conversion tool I mentioned is svn://svn.debian.org/svn/pkg-kbd/people/zinoviev/console-setup
[03:33] <Keybuk> madwifi-ng is the "new" Atheros drivers
[03:33] <Keybuk> network-manager is currently blocked and "won't go in for dapper" because it doesn't work on Atheros cards
[03:33] <Keybuk> madwifi-ng *may* solve this, and unblock n-m again
[03:33] <mjg59> Keybuk: Did you see my pointer to the openhal stuff?
[03:34] <mjg59> (Probably not useful in this case, but still)
[03:34] <Keybuk> mjg59: yeah, I've tried openhal before, and it's terrible
[03:34] <mjg59> Keybuk: Heh. Fun.
[03:34] <Keybuk> supports fewer cards and features than the real one
[03:34] <mjg59> Fair enough
[03:35] <mjg59> If you can try madwifi-ng, that would be ridiculously helpful
[03:35] <mjg59> We can push it into l-r-m for dapper and see how it goes
[03:35] <Keybuk> infinity is going to package it up in lrm tomorrowish
[03:35] <mjg59> Oh, cool
[03:35] <mjg59> Replacing madwifi?
[03:35] <Keybuk> yeah
[03:36] <milli> nice
[03:36] <Keybuk> (in ~infinity, and then the real archive if testing goes well)
[03:36] <daniels> hi all
[03:37] <daniels> Keybuk: (~adconrad, surely)
[03:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: so it's you i need to blame for the root passwd at shutdown/reboot? ;)
[03:37] <Keybuk> well, yes, but it's 2:30am here and I'm asleep
[03:38] <Keybuk> fabbione: apparently; it works for me for some reason *shrug*
[03:38] <fabbione> Keybuk: do you need the full error
[03:38] <fabbione> ?
[03:38] <Keybuk> already fixed
[03:38] <fabbione> ok
[03:44] <Riddell> is the hal in openhal anything to do with HAL?
[03:46] <mjg59> No
[03:48] <Riddell> thought not, mildly confusing
[03:48] <pitti> doko: bah, /usr/lib/openoffice2/help/en/smath.idx/DICTIONARY seems to be in all oo.o packages and -help-en-us, so there are a lot of file conflicts. known bug?
[03:49] <doko> pitti: -0ubuntu3 ...
[03:51] <pitti> doko: ok, if it's known, great
[03:55] <pitti> seb128: I saw the new logout dialog this evening; shiny :)
[03:57] <seb128> yep, it's nice (but still requires some work) :)
[03:59] <fabbione> doko: dude.. can we have a couple of words? :P
[03:59] <fabbione> doko: gcc-* + OOo2* can tank my poor buildd ;)
[04:01] <doko> fabbione: wait with oo*, wait with gcc-4.0/gcj-4.0 for the next upload (amd64 biarch update)
[04:02] <fabbione> doko: i am already building ubuntu3
[04:02] <fabbione> same as gcc-4.0 and gcj-4.1
[04:03] <doko> ubuntu3 should be ok, that will hopefully stay some time
[04:03] <fabbione> doko: yes, we need to know as well if it is FTBFS
[04:04] <Mithrandir> mdz: yay, I have a media-integrity-check thingy that works on the live cd as well.
[04:05] <mdz> Mithrandir: cool
[04:05] <mdz> Mithrandir: just text output for now?
[04:05] <Mithrandir> mdz: no, no text output for now.  Just usplash.
[04:06] <mdz> excellent
[04:06] <mdz> I thought that was waiting for infinity to get back
[04:06] <Mithrandir> no, that's for the regular casper initramfs thingy.
[04:06] <Mithrandir> I'm seriously abusing both casper and usplash here, but it works quite well
[04:07] <Kamion> you know, doing a really basic espresso-partman integration doesn't actually look that hard at all
[04:07] <Kamion> even after the first level of analysis
[04:07] <Kamion> making it fit mpt's proposed UI is trickier, but that's for later ...
[04:08] <whiprush> Riddell: according to the network-manager list, RH just got a madwifi card /today/ for testing purposes. Pity I missed keybuk.
[04:08] <Lathiat> whats keybuks email?
[04:08] <Mithrandir> scott@ubuntu
[04:08] <Lathiat> cheers
[04:24] <Mithrandir> grrrr
[04:24] <infinity> Grrr indeed.
[04:24] <Mithrandir> hiya infinity 
[04:24] <Mithrandir> how's life?
[04:24] <infinity> I came home to a shiny new DSL connection that's... Not quite right in the head.
[04:25] <infinity> But at least it's connected now.
[04:25] <infinity> Slow.  But connected.
[04:25] <Mithrandir> infinity: you had some usplash fixes?  I'm pondering uploading a new version, since the current version is broken when you fill the FIFO
[04:26] <Mithrandir> infinity: so if either you want my fixes or the other way around, that'd be useful.
[04:26] <infinity> You have a fix for that?
[04:26] <Mithrandir> yes
[04:26] <infinity> Yay.
[04:26] <Mithrandir> I needed it, so I coded it.
[04:26] <infinity> Just upload.  The archive is our RCS for usplash.  AFAIK, Matt doesn't have a repo for it, and I know I don't.
[04:26] <Mithrandir> actually, I have two fixes for that.  One correct and one hackish.  The hackish being smaller, but does a lot of 1-byte reads.
[04:27] <infinity> Correct sounds good to me.
[04:27] <Mithrandir> true, he doesn't.
[04:35] <jdub> daniels: do the xorg fglrx drivers not depend on the kernel driver version?
[04:36] <infinity> No, but they probably should.
[04:37] <daniels> how?
[04:37] <infinity> The thing is that the nvidia and fglrx packages build from LRM descended from the seperate Debian packaging efforts of each.  nvidia did the glx->kernel dependency, fglrx didn't.
[04:37] <jdub> oh, yeah, i meant technically not packagearily :-)
[04:37] <jdub> they definitely don't with our packages
[04:37] <daniels> 'yes'
[04:37] <infinity> Oh.  Technically, they do.  Yes.
[04:37] <jdub> right
[04:38] <jdub> hard to do that without pissing people off, though, i guess
[04:38] <infinity> dpkgily, they don't, but probably should do like the nvidia drivers attempt to (though it's a poor solution anyway, since you can have multiple modules packages installed, providing different module versions, and no guarantee you're booting the right kernel)
[04:38] <Burgundavia> daniels, is there a known but with i810 not currently doing direct rendering?
[04:38] <jdub> infinity: mmm.
[04:39] <jdub> infinity: ugh.
[04:39] <jdub> infinity: bleh.
[04:39] <seth_k|lappy> Burgundavia, my fglrx stuff isn't doing direct rendering either, so I suspect it's everything
[04:39] <daniels> Burgundavia: no
[04:39] <infinity> seth_k|lappy: No, the fglrx problem is a different issue (and will be fixed in the next upload)
[04:39] <daniels> seth_k|lappy: errr ... fglrx replaces libGL entirely
[04:39] <daniels> infinity: don't forget to make it a Suggests, in case they've built their own kernel
[04:40] <daniels> or Recommends
[04:40] <Burgundavia> daniels, what sort of debug information do you need?
[04:40] <infinity> It's a hard dependency in the nvidia case, IIRC.
[04:40] <infinity> Depends: nvidia-kernel-1.0.8174
[04:40] <daniels> Burgundavia: LIBGL_DEBUG=verbose glxinfo, look at the first few lines and see if it can't find i810_dri, or if XF86QueryDRICapable returns false, or something else
[04:40] <daniels> infinity: ugh
[04:40] <infinity> The theory being that if you installed the glx package, you probably also built the module package.
[04:41] <infinity> It's always been like that.
[04:41] <Burgundavia> daniels, I will file a bug tomorrow
[04:41] <infinity> (note that it suggests nvidia-kernel-source as a big blinking hint as to how to make the kernel-module package)
[04:42] <daniels> Burgundavia: if XF86QDC returns null, look at Xorg.0.log
[04:44] <Mithrandir> pretty, pretty progressbar.
[04:48] <Burgundavia> ugh, this should be simple. How the heck do I rsync the i386 daily install cd again?
[04:48] <SEJeff> Is the latest kernel update supposed to make the boot not find init :) I guess I am asking if that is a feature rather than a bug
[04:49] <Mithrandir> Burgundavia: rsync -av --progress cdimage.ubuntu.com::cdimage/daily-live/current/dapper-live-amd64.iso dapper-live-amd64.iso with the obvious substitution. :-)
[04:51] <Mithrandir> infinity: new usplash uploaded.  I'm off to bed.
[04:51] <infinity> 'Night.  Thanks.
[04:51] <Burgundavia> Mithrandir, cheers
[04:55] <jdub> BYE BYE BASE-CONFIG
[04:55] <desrt> thank god
[04:56] <desrt> hello acid-config!
[05:01] <infinity> Argh, jbailey picked a fine time to leave.
[05:04] <Lathiat> hrm, upgraded to dapper and my root on lvm doens't come up on boot
[05:05] <SEJeff> Lathiat, I've had this problem. Want me to walk you through how to access your files?
[05:06] <jsgotangco> man that update is scary
[05:06] <SEJeff> jsgotangco, the initial 2.6.15 update when the initramfs was broken was scary
[05:08] <SEJeff> http://nanokron.info:8000/PICT0004.JPG this is what the latest dapper kernel update did to me
[05:09] <jsgotangco> woohooo
[05:09] <jsgotangco> libselinux1?
[05:10] <ajmitch> jsgotangco: what about it?
[05:11] <jsgotangco> i just saw it updating now.
[05:11] <ajmitch> right
[05:11] <ajmitch> just another sync from debian :)
[05:20] <infinity> SEJeff: If I had to guess, I'd say it was the klibc update that screwed you, and the initramfs-tools I just uploaded 5 minutes ago will fix it.
[05:26] <jsgotangco> lunch brb
[05:28] <desrt> ... :)
[05:32] <jdub> why are you building fglrx?
[05:34] <daniels> jdub: beta program, I think
[05:47] <desrt> jdub; so i can use my computer
[05:48] <desrt> using it with the r300 dri results in some rather fantastic crashing
[05:50] <jdub> eh, rad, ocean's thirteen to be made
[05:50] <daniels> so don't use dri
[05:50] <jdub> wrong channel ;)
[05:54] <SEJeff> BenC, http://nanokron.info:8000/PICT0004.JPG was infinity correct in stating a klibc update caused this? I'm afraid to reboot right now and don't have a livecd available to chroot/fix things
[05:55] <infinity> SEJeff: I assume you can still boot with your -10 kernel?
[05:57] <SEJeff> infinity, I am on the dapper desktop right now and don't have ubuntu installed on my Sparc :) I need x up ATM
[05:57] <SEJeff> infinity, I'll reboot in a few days
[05:58] <infinity> SEJeff: If so, download this ( http://people.ubuntu.com/~adconrad/initramfs-tools_0.40ubuntu9_all.deb ), install it, run "sudo update-initramfs -u -k 2.6.15-11-686" and reboot.  The new kernel should boot fine now.
[05:59] <infinity> SEJeff: Updates won't magically fix your broken initramfs if you're booted into your old kernel, so you'll pretty much have to fix it with a manual "update-initramfs" invocation at some point.
[05:59] <infinity> (Cause initramfs-tools updates will just update your current RUNNING kernel, which is probably -10)
[05:59] <SEJeff> infinity, yes, I did that before when the first 2.6.15 fiasco happened
[06:02] <SEJeff> infinity, thanks
[06:05] <desrt> daniels; as a direct result of me not using dri during the breezy release cycle dri with my videocard was broken for breezy final
[06:06] <desrt> daniels; everything needs to be tested.
[06:06] <daniels> the fglrx thing?
[06:07] <daniels> testing wouldn't have helped much there
[06:07] <desrt> the mtrr thing
[06:07] <daniels> ah
[06:07] <desrt> it went unnoticed because i wasn't using dri
[06:19] <jdub> infinity: rebooting now :)
[06:21] <jdub> whoa, fast-boot-a-rama
[06:24] <jdub> daniels: what do i want, xorg-driver-synaptics, or xserver-xorg-input-synaptics?
[06:24] <BenC> SEJeff: appears to be correct
[06:24] <jdub> daniels: 'cos currently i have the latter, but no touchpad love at all
[06:32] <jsgotangco> wow xorg love
[06:34] <daniels> jdub: the latter
[06:34] <daniels> jdub: Xorg.0.log?
[06:34] <jdub> sec
[06:35] <jdub> hrm, will have to restart X which will probably result in the machine crashing
[06:35] <jdub> oh
[06:35] <jdub> it already has
[06:35] <jdub> hrm, no it hasn't
[06:40] <CarlFK> what java package is top of the list for dapper users ?
[06:41] <CarlFK> as in, which one should get some attention 
[07:37] <vuntz> jdub: re: "YOU ARE IN BIG TROUBLE, MISTER!"
[07:37] <vuntz> jdub: the clock change is a test
[07:37] <vuntz> just to see how I get flamed :-)
[07:37] <Burgundavia> vuntz, better get out the asbestos suit
[07:38] <desrt> the clock changed?
[07:38] <ajmitch> he dared to remove the date
[07:38] <desrt> oh.  defaults pfah
[07:38] <vuntz> I DARED!
[07:39] <vuntz> last time I changed a default for the clock, I got flamed, so I expect some reaction again ;-)
[07:39] <desrt> i see.
[07:39] <desrt> time-only is best
[07:39] <desrt> panel space is precious
[07:40] <Burgundavia> desrt, umm, how so?
[07:40] <desrt> anyone in their right mind moves the bottom task-switcher to the top panel so it's best to save space
[07:40] <Burgundavia> desrt, most users never change defaults
[07:40] <lifeless> what about people with integrated minds ?
[07:40] <desrt> right.  as i said.
[07:40] <desrt> :)
[07:40] <desrt> alas.  it is getting late.  (twilight to starlight)
[07:40] <desrt> farewell and goodnight!
[07:41] <vuntz> desrt: dude, you can't let me be flamed alone!
[07:41] <lifeless> anyhoo, I only change things when some update borks my settings, which I got happy with in 98 or so
[07:41] <desrt> vuntz; tell me.  where is your window switcher?
[07:41] <vuntz> desrt: I don't have a window list. Just the window selector in the top right corner
[07:41] <desrt> how macos classic.
[07:42] <desrt> i went through that phase too
[07:42] <desrt> your panel space is -not- at a premium.  why do you want to eliminate the date?
[07:42] <vuntz> I used to have a window list in a autohide, but I didn't use it, so I kill it
[07:42] <vuntz> desrt: never found it useful and the default format is ugly, imho
[07:43] <desrt> so fix it?
[07:43] <vuntz> default date format
[07:43] <vuntz> fix it would make it too long
[07:43] <vuntz> but that's just my opinion. That's why the removal is a test :-)
[07:43] <desrt> oh well
[07:43] <whiprush> let's be honest people. We want the date back because we're all too drunk most of the time to know what day it is.
[07:43] <desrt> nobody here has any right to flame you
[07:43] <desrt> after all, you're Upstream :)
[07:44] <ajmitch> desrt: and upstream never makes mistakes? :)
[07:44] <ajmitch> whiprush: pretty much
[07:44] <vuntz> ajmitch: exactly
[07:44] <vuntz> :-)
[07:45] <whiprush> as an aside, today when I booted my dapper laptop the ntp thing on boot didn't work
[07:45] <whiprush> so I was at work until 9pm, thinking it was 7pm
[07:45] <whiprush> boy ... did that suck.
[07:45] <ajmitch> aw
[07:45] <vuntz> ajmitch: you know, I always blame Ubuntu when replying to bug reports ;-)
[07:45] <Burgundavia> whiprush, ouch. They moved the ntp thing to inside ifup
[07:45] <desrt> 'packaging error.  file downstream.  FIXED -> INVALID'
[07:45] <ajmitch> vuntz: sure, blame seb & daniel :)
[07:45] <vuntz> (and I blame GNOME upstream in Malone/Ubuntu bugzilla)
[07:46] <whiprush> Burgundavia: looks like I was one apt-get upgrade behind, heh.
[07:46] <desrt> 'gnome bug.  file upstream.  -> UPSTREAM'
[07:46] <desrt> vuntz; you must be a very conflicted individual :)
[07:46] <vuntz> ahah
[07:47] <desrt> vuntz; did you port the gnome-panel applets to use the new API?
[07:47] <vuntz> yes
[07:47] <Mez> hey desrt :D
[07:47] <desrt> uhoh.
[07:47] <ajmitch> heh
[07:48] <ajmitch> hello Mez 
[07:48] <desrt> Mez; word.
[07:48] <Mez> hey andrew! hows things?
[07:48] <desrt> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Pekoe
[07:49] <desrt> 'SFTGFOP (Super Fine Tippy Golden Flowery Orange Pekoe)'
[07:49] <desrt> classic.
[07:49] <ajmitch> alright
[07:50] <desrt> vuntz; indeed my fault.  i was running a panel out of /opt
[07:50] <desrt> everything is copacetic and now i really must go to bed.
[07:51] <ajmitch> night desrt 
[07:52] <Mez> ooh, big word
[07:52] <Mez> night Ryan!
[08:52] <fabbione> morning
[09:27] <pitti> Good morning
[09:27] <pitti> hi carlos 
[09:27] <carlos> morning
[09:28] <fabbione> hey pitti
[09:35] <zakame> elmo: please sync octave2.1 from Sid, overriding Ubuntu ok, thanks :-)
[09:35] <zakame> heya pitti , carlos , fabbione :)
[09:51] <floam> holy carpfish
[09:51] <floam> what's with the new log out dialog?
[09:51] <floam> I've just got a bunch of buttons, and I can't even tell that they are buttons
[09:51] <floam> that's got to violate HIG in many ways
[09:51] <fabbione> floam: welcome to the team :)
[09:52] <CarlFK> where do I report problems with gij?
[09:53] <CarlFK> not a ubuntu problem but a .. core? problem
[09:53] <fabbione> CarlFK: doko
[09:53] <jsgotangco> hehe
[09:53] <jsgotangco> its too KDE'ish
[09:54] <fabbione> M$'ish
[09:54] <floam> plus these icons looks like they were stolen from XP or KDE or somesuch
[09:54] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:54] <jsgotangco> actually they really do look M$'ish
[09:54] <floam> I hope it's a joke or a early prototype or something
[09:54] <Treenaks> floam: maybe they're tango icons ?
[09:55] <floam> doubtful
[09:55] <Treenaks> floam: anyway, I guess it's work in progress
[09:55] <jsgotangco> yeah
[09:55] <sivang> morning all
[09:55] <jsgotangco> the box looks too big too
[09:55] <jsgotangco> just a proof of concept i guess
[09:55] <floam> there had better be more than just buttons when it is done, the user has no idea what the dialog does
[09:57] <floam> and I'm not trying to be rude or anything, I know it's not easy to make stuff
[09:57] <floam> but it's not like the old dialog sucked
[09:57] <CarlFK> fabbione: the doko that is here?
[09:58] <fabbione> CarlFK: yes
[10:00] <Burgundavia> Treenaks, not tango
[10:00] <Burgundavia> floam, see the ubuntu-desktop mailing list
[10:02] <orhs_> hey guys i need help with this "3com officeConnect wireless 11g pc card" the driver version of the hardware is 3.0.7.2. i use kernel ver 386
[10:03] <Burgundavia> orhs_, please use #ubuntu , as this is not a support channel
[10:03] <orhs_> oh srry i must have mistaken :P
[10:03] <Burgundavia> orhs_, hey, np
[10:37] <sivang> woof, just finished reading last night's meeting backlog
[11:15] <jdub> vuntz_: :-)
[11:41] <Keybuk> my god it's quiet today; I guess 2/3am meetings really take the fighting spirit out of everyone? :)
[11:41] <zakame> hehe
[11:41] <infinity> s,2/3am ,,
[11:42] <Keybuk> infinity: btw, how are you intended to do splashdown?
[11:42] <Keybuk> I'm mucking around with /etc/init.d/rc right now and might be nice to get it right
[11:46] <zakame> wb zyga 
[11:46] <zyga> morning guys :-)
[11:47] <Keybuk> infinity: right now, it'll PROGRESS 0 thru 100 for rc0 or rc6
[11:47] <infinity> Keybuk: Make rc[06]  start at 100 and count backwards.
[11:47] <infinity> Keybuk: But I was too lazy to do that in the quick "ack, my machine doesn't reboot" upload.
[11:47] <Keybuk> ok, so you'd like them to go downwards
[11:47] <Keybuk> infinity: gah, dude!  I was working on that
[11:48] <Keybuk> *sigh*
[11:48] <Keybuk> can you close the bug? :p
[11:48] <infinity> Did I not?
[11:48] <Keybuk> btw, your fix will make it only do 0 thru 50, no?
[11:49] <infinity> My "fix" was just a bandaid to make machines reboot without stopping haflway, since that kinda sucked.
[11:49] <infinity> And yes, it would do 0-50.
[11:49] <Keybuk> it'd been broken for 3-4 weeks ;)  I figured another few hours wouldn't hurt
[11:49] <infinity> I only saw it today.
[11:49] <infinity> Did sysvinit not build until recently?
[11:49] <infinity> (I update near-daily)
[11:50] <Nafallo> it was installed for me late yesterday evening.
[11:50] <zyga> infinity: just curious, what has gone wrong with the reboots?
[11:50] <Keybuk> oh, you did close the bug ... I was clearly asleep when I read that folder ;)
[11:50] <infinity> Keybuk: Yeah, it was FTBFS until a give-back yesterday.
[11:50] <infinity> Keybuk: Hence why it was suddenly an issue.
[11:50] <Keybuk> ahh
[11:51] <Keybuk> fair enough, I'll just copy your changelog entry into my upload
[11:51] <Keybuk> as I've done a merge and most of the s-b changes at the same time too
[11:51] <infinity> Ahh, cool.
[11:51] <infinity> Didn't want to step on toes, I just don't dig computers that don't reboot. :)
[11:51] <infinity> I'm picky.
[11:52] <Keybuk> about time you fixed one of my bugs, anyway
[11:52] <Keybuk> after all of yours that I've fixed for you ;)
[11:52] <infinity> I have big, inviting toes.
[11:53] <Nafallo> damn sofa!
[11:53] <Nafallo> so I have one toe blue :-/
[11:56] <ogra_ibook> *yawn*
[12:02] <dholbach> hellas
[12:03] <Keybuk> morning *hugs*
[12:03] <ogra_ibook> huggers
[12:04] <Keybuk> infinity, jbailey: for your amusment:
[12:04] <Keybuk> http://ehlo.org/~kay/?p=linux/hotplug/udev.git;a=commitdiff;h=f75002a3dd39ccc740ac586ef352d3f2a45b2ff4
[12:08] <infinity> Keybuk: Nice variant of the "replaced with a very small shell script" threat.
[12:08] <tepsipakki> can I request for another try at building OO.o2 (it failed because of libsane 1.0.17-1ubuntu2)? :)
[12:08] <Keybuk> libsysfs is evil, I for one would be glad to see it die
[12:09] <infinity> tepsipakki: It's already building.
[12:09] <tepsipakki> infinity: ok, great!
[12:13] <Mithrandir> smurf: do you have any kind of developer docs or something for keymapper?  I need it to give out X11 keyboard map names instead of linux console ones.
[12:15] <smurf> Mithrandir: that's a question of "you get what you put in"... ideally you'd want to analyze X11 maps instead of console maps
[12:15] <smurf> code for that should be in there, though I haven't done a particularly good job of understanding X1 keymaps. :-/
[12:17] <Mithrandir> smurf: hmm, yes, I see that code, but I guess I need to pick more at it to actually understand what's going on in there.
[12:19] <smurf> Mithrandir: The basic principle is easy -- find out which keys a symbol appears on and how much magic you need to invoke it, put it through the wringer of a "thse symbols look the same" table, generate decision tree
[12:21] <smurf> the "how much magic" part is important, otherwise I'd ask people for something which is only on shift-altgr-whatever which they have no idea where it is
[12:21] <Mithrandir> smurf: yeah, I understood that much from the readme.
[12:23] <smurf> Mithrandir: I don't quite remember how much I actually wrote in there. ;-)
[12:25] <fabbione> oh boys
[12:25] <fabbione> installing on USB is SLOOOOOW
[12:28] <Mithrandir> fabbione: get a faster USB drive?
[12:28] <pitti> fabbione: even with usb 2.0?
[12:28] <pitti> fabbione: my old 1.1 stick is indeed slow, but the 2.0 stick of my gf runs nicely
[12:28] <fabbione> Mithrandir, pitti: it's usb2
[12:29] <fabbione> still takes too long :)
[12:29] <Mithrandir> fabbione: *shrug*, I get 15-20MB/sec to my USB2 drive.
[12:29] <Lathiat> fabbione: you making usb installs work?
[12:30] <fabbione> Lathiat, usb install d
[12:30] <fabbione> Lathiat, usb install DOES work
[12:30] <Lathiat> oh, cool
[12:30] <fabbione> i need to check a few things
[12:30] <Lathiat> i thought there was a problem
[12:30] <fabbione> one: can it boot?
[12:30] <Lathiat> like not waiting logn enough for root to appear
[12:30] <Lathiat> and then fails to boot
[12:30] <fabbione> two: if i move the disk and change the name how bad is going to die
[12:31] <fabbione> three: how much it takes to fix all of the above
[12:31] <Lathiat> *and* change the name?
[12:31] <fabbione> the problem you mention should be already fixed
[12:31] <fabbione> Lathiat, if you install with one usb device, that one will be named sda for example
[12:31] <fabbione> if you add another device
[12:31] <Lathiat> ah right
[12:31] <fabbione> you have no guarantee that it will still be called sda
[12:31] <doko> who does take care of php in ubuntu/edubuntu? ogra?
[12:31] <fabbione> so fstab becomes .. pointless
[12:31] <Lathiat> thats the point of LABEL based mounting yeah?
[12:31] <Lathiat> LABEL=/ /
[12:31] <ogra_ibook> doko, infinity
[12:32] <Lathiat> can also be an issue if you have two /
[12:32] <fabbione> we need something more than just LABEL
[12:32] <Lathiat> could use some kind of random id i guess
[12:32] <Lathiat> hrm ok
[12:32] <fabbione> Lathiat, read the specs
[12:32] <ogra_ibook> if he didnt drop it out of frustration :)
[12:32] <Mithrandir> Lathiat: all devices have an uuid
[12:32] <fabbione> s/devices/filesystems
[12:33] <fabbione> and not all of them
[12:33] <doko> infinity: what will be the php "default" for dapper?
[12:34] <infinity> PHP 5, as it was in breezy.
[12:34] <fabbione> hey infinity 
[12:36] <doko> infinity: 5.0 or 5.1?
[12:37] <infinity> 5.1.x, I assume.
[12:37] <infinity> Unless they ship a 5.2 really soon.
[12:37] <infinity> 5.1.1 is sitting on my hard drive, waiting for me to hit one or two more bugs before I upload it.
[12:39] <fabbione> aRGH
[12:39] <fabbione> now i see why it's taking so loooong
[12:39] <fabbione> all the install was moved to stage 1
[12:39] <fabbione> ROCKING
[12:39] <ogra> heh :)
[12:40] <pitti> saves this incredibly time wasting archive-copier step :)
[12:40] <fabbione> till you discover that the bootloader is borked :)
[12:46] <Keybuk> Lathiat: the initramfs will wait up to 3 minutes for scsi disks to settle
[12:46] <Keybuk> where scsi includes usb storage, firewire and sata these days
[12:47] <Lathiat> ah ok
[12:48] <Mithrandir> deboostrap should install the debs in file-system order. :-P
[12:48] <Keybuk> if only parallel-ide would hurry up and get libata'd
[12:49] <Keybuk> then we could do away with the nasty CASE/ESAC
[12:49] <Keybuk> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udev is farrrr too choicey for my liking
[12:49] <ogra> Keybuk, btw, could you extend the usplash timeout dynamically in such cases (scsi delay) ?
[12:50] <Keybuk> ogra: I'm going to ask infinity for a "yeah, I'm still alive" PING command to reset the timeout
[12:50] <Keybuk> I haven't got around to it yet though
[12:50] <infinity> There is one.
[12:50] <ogra> that'd be cool
[12:50] <Keybuk> oh, there is?
[12:51] <infinity> Oddly enough, PING works.
[12:51] <Keybuk> lol
[12:51] <ogra> hehe
[12:51] <Keybuk> serves me right for not reading the documentation
[12:51] <Keybuk> OH WAIT, THERE ISN'T ANY

[12:51] <infinity> (In reality, any command usplash doesn't understand, of which PING is one, will work as a ping)
[12:51] <Keybuk> rofl
[12:51] <ogra> wow, you could write little stories in the sourcecode then :)
[12:52] <ogra> programming arts :)
[01:03] <Kamion> pitti: archive-copier isn't entirely gone, but now it only copies ship and isn't strictly required; I wouldn't be totally opposed to killing it altogether, but it needs some discussion
[01:03] <pitti> Kamion: ah, it copies ship - desktop?
[01:03] <Kamion> pitti: right
[01:03] <pitti> Kamion: that's nice
[01:04] <Kamion> hmm, anyone know a way to convert a-z to 0-25 in shell?
[01:04] <pitti> so actually the CD apt source isn't required any more
[01:04] <Kamion> or any way to get the ASCII value of a character
[01:05] <Treenaks> Kamion: od
[01:05] <Kamion> Treenaks: not available
[01:05] <janimo> Kamion a very long tr using octal codes?
[01:05] <dholbach> Kamion: g_ascii_digit_value or in which context do you ask?
[01:05] <Kamion> dholbach: dude, shell. not glib.
[01:05] <Kamion> installer context, what else? :)
[01:06] <dholbach> you were asking about gazpacho yesterday, that's why i asked, dude! :)
[01:07] <Treenaks> Kamion: no od? hmm.. then janimo's suggestion (though that's potentially not locale-aware)
[01:07] <Kamion> the only thing I can think of is echo "$char" | case $char in [a-j] ) sed 'y/a-j/0-9/' ;; [k-t] ) sed 'y/k-t/0-9/; s/^/1/' ;; [u-z] ) sed 'y/u-z/0-5/; s/^/2/' ;; esac or something equally gross
[01:07] <Kamion> don't care about locales
[01:08] <dooglus> you've got 'sed' but not 'od'?
[01:08] <Kamion> yes
[01:08] <dooglus> got awk or perl?
[01:08] <Kamion> no
[01:08] <dooglus> bc or dc?
[01:08] <Kamion> no
[01:11] <dooglus> echo $((36#a-10)) $((36#z-10))
[01:11] <dooglus> ==> 0 25
[01:11] <Mithrandir> not in dash
[01:11] <dooglus> you don't have bash available?
[01:11] <Kamion> yeah, looks like a bashism unfortunately, though it's nifty
[01:11] <Kamion> dooglus: this is in the installer. no.
[01:12] <Kamion> it's all busybox
[01:12] <Kamion> I could write a C helper, but it's massive overkill for figuring out the indexes of IDE/SCSI drives from their device names ...
[01:14] <pitti> Kamion: reading the minor device id isn't sufficient?
[01:14] <Kamion> pitti: not the partition number - hda -> 0, hdb -> 1, hdc -> 2, etc.
[01:14] <Kamion> using device numbers for that is a pain
[01:15] <pitti> right, they mix majors and minors
[01:15] <pitti> for IDE controllers at least
[01:16] <dooglus> Kamion: how about this: printf "%d\n" "'a"
[01:16] <dooglus> prints 97
[01:16] <Mithrandir> yeah, printf + arithmetic should work
[01:17] <Kamion> busybox printf doesn't understand that 'a trick
[01:17] <Kamion> although good try, I'd forgotten about printf
[01:18] <Mithrandir> or just have a map file you can grep
[01:18] <Mithrandir> which is just a:0\nb:1\nc:2, etc
[01:18] <Mithrandir> silly, but should work
[01:19] <dooglus> Kamion: dash's printf does
[01:19] <Treenaks> Mithrandir: it's even possible to generate that on the fly
[01:19] <dooglus> atoi() { echo $(($(printf "%d" "'$1") - 97)); }
[01:19] <Kamion> partman's nasty enough as it is, but if I have to ...
[01:19] <Kamion> <cjwatson@cairhien ~>$ busybox printf '%d\n' "'a"
[01:19] <Kamion> 'a0
[01:19] <dooglus> Kamion: you said you have 'dash'?
[01:19] <Kamion> no
[01:19] <Kamion> busybox ash, which is related but not identical
[01:19] <dooglus> oh, it was Mithrandir who said that sorry
[01:20] <Mithrandir> no, I didn't.  I said that $((36#a-10)) didn't work in dash (and thereby wouldn't work in the installer)
[01:21] <dooglus> how can I get busybox to try this?
[01:21] <Kamion> apt-get install busybox (on dapper)
[01:21] <Kamion> or busybox-cvs on breezy
[01:21] <Mithrandir> it's in /usr/lib/initramfs-tools/bin/busybox in dapper, at least
[01:21] <dooglus> i tried.  it told me "After unpacking 422MB disk space will be freed."
[01:21] <Mithrandir> Treenaks: sure, that's easy enough to do.
[01:21] <dooglus> (on dapper)
[01:22] <pitti> dooglus: it's designed to save space :)
[01:22] <Kamion> the ' trick you mention is in POSIX so I could add it to busybox
[01:22] <Treenaks> we need perl or python in  the installer :)
[01:22] <Kamion> no, we don't
[01:22] <janimo> who can delete unused packages from the archive?
[01:22] <pitti> Treenaks: at least you didn't say 'mono'
[01:22] <Treenaks> Kamion: it'd solve a lot of issues like this :)
[01:22] <Treenaks> pitti: ooh! that too! :)
[01:23] <Treenaks> pitti: shiny
[01:23] <Kamion> Treenaks: and make many more issues a lot worse
[01:23] <janimo> I'd like xffm4-icons to be removed, it confuses some users
[01:23] <Treenaks> Kamion: hmm.. yeah, lowmem would be impossible
[01:26] <janimo> elmo, if it's you who deletes packages from the archive please do so with xffm4-icons. It is replaced by a newer package and some users still try to install it and then file bug reports. thank you
[01:28] <Kamion> right, I'm just going to make busybox printf support the syntax dooglus suggested, thanks
[01:37] <pitti> Riddell: btw, please do test all the demo exploits Chris provided - I had to modify the patch for xpdf a bit
[01:56] <jbailey> Keybuk: Nice. =)
[01:57] <zyga> mvo: new update manager? :)
[01:57] <mvo> zyga: yep, some fixes
[01:58] <irvin> mvo, looking forward for your scripts for nonbroadband users
[01:58] <fabbione> hey jbailey 
[01:59] <mvo> irvin: thanks, it's in dapper 
[01:59] <mvo> at least a simple version :)
[02:00] <irvin> package name?
[02:01] <mvo> irvin: it's part of synaptic, File/Generate package download script
[02:02] <irvin> i see
[02:02] <zyga> mvo: msgid "http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/%s/%s/%s/%s_%s/changelog" is this supposed to be translatable?
[02:02] <zyga> (from u-m)
[02:02] <mvo> irvin: you can later import the stuff File/add downloaded package
[02:03] <mvo> zyga: right, we talked aobut it
[02:03] <mvo> zyga: needs to be fixed
[02:03] <mvo> zyga: the idea was to make it possilbe to have translated changelogs some day. but that's not going too happen too soon :)
[02:03] <mvo> maybe/probably never
[02:04] <zyga> ah, remember that 
[02:04] <zyga> okay
[02:04] <mvo> I think I'll just remove it again for now
[02:05] <zyga> mvo: I'll send you updated pl.po, please wait
[02:05] <mvo> zyga: great, thanks
[02:16] <jbailey> Heya fabbione!
[02:16] <sivang> hey jbailey , morning =)
[02:16] <jbailey> Heya Sivan!
[02:23] <ogra_ibook> Keybuk, before i forget about it: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ThinClientAudioSupport and the implementation is on: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/sound/
[02:24] <fabbione> Keybuk, is there are a reason why initramfs doesn't include USB storage modules?
[02:24] <fabbione> ^ jbailey for you too :)
[02:24] <Lathiat> so it *doesnt* work? ;p
[02:24] <ogra_ibook> fabbione, it does ? 
[02:24] <jbailey> fabbione: I think it used to.
[02:25] <ogra_ibook> it still does ...
[02:25] <ogra_ibook> at least it did yesterday
[02:25] <fabbione> no it doesn't
[02:25] <fabbione> otherwise my scsi devices would come up
[02:25] <fabbione> scsi/usb...
[02:25] <ogra_ibook>         for x in md raid0 raid1 raid5 raid6 ehci-hcd ohci-hcd uhci-hcd usbhid usb-storage ext2 ext3 isofs jfs nfs reiserfs xfs af_packet dm_mod; do
[02:25] <jbailey> fabbione: It could be that they're there and not being plugged correctly.
[02:26] <ogra_ibook> looks like it does 
[02:26] <fabbione> jbailey, what do i need to look for?
[02:26] <ogra_ibook> /usr/share/initramfs-tools/hook-functions has the module code
[02:26] <ogra_ibook> look if your initramfs.conf shows something different to MODULES="most"
[02:26] <jbailey> fabbione: Unpack it, see if the module is there.  Otherwise, have to poke keybuk.  I don't yet understand the new udev setup enough to guide you.
[02:27] <fabbione> jbailey, ok
[02:27] <Kamion> anyone know how to convert from /dev/sd* device node names to SCSI bus/target/lun?
[02:27] <Kamion> I'm assuming the host is just the index (sda => 0 etc.), but would welcome correction if I'm wrong
[02:29] <jbailey> Kamion: I don't think lanana naming has lun.
[02:29] <fabbione> Kamion, hmm not sure..
[02:29] <Kamion> hmm, I think I'm wrong about the host too
[02:29] <fabbione> jbailey, usb-storage is not loaded.. otherwise it works.
[02:29] <Kamion> jbailey: I know it may not be encapsulated in the name; looking it up in /proc or /sys is fine
[02:30] <fabbione> Linux ultra60 2.6.12-9-sparc64 #1 Mon Oct 10 11:02:28 UTC 2005 sparc64 GNU/Linux
[02:30] <fabbione> new sparc up and running!
[02:30] <jbailey> fabbione: I don't suppose this one has less than 2 seconds of latency to get to it? =)
[02:30] <fabbione> jbailey, it's about 20 inches far away from the other one
[02:31] <jbailey> fabbione: The one in your bedroom, or the one in North America? =)
[02:31] <fabbione> the one in my bedroom :)
[02:40] <fabbione> hi zuk
[02:40] <fabbione> zul
[02:41] <fabbione> Dear Zul, please grub not to suck as an hoovering machine
[02:41] <fabbione> +fix
[02:41] <fabbione> kthxbye
[02:45] <janimo> do auto-syncs from debian happen with predictable schedule at certain hours?
[02:53] <zul> fabbione: whats wrong with grub, grub is your friend
[02:55] <Kamion> looks like basename "$(readlink -f /sys/block/$name/device)" is my friend
[03:15] <pitti> Riddell: ping
[03:15] <pitti> BenC: are you here?
[03:17] <nequeo> Is anyone else completely unable to run anything Firefox/Mozilla related under Dapper?
[03:17] <Treenaks> nequeo: remove the mozilla-firefox-locale-* packages and it'll magically work
[03:17] <pitti> nequeo: let me take a guess - you have installed a language pack?
[03:17] <nequeo> It's gone.
[03:17] <nequeo> Still doesn't work.
[03:18] <dholbach> Any held-back packages?
[03:18] <pitti> nequeo: blame Diziet then :)
[03:18] <nequeo> Not at the moment, no.
[03:18] <nequeo> Ephiphany doesn't run. Mozilla-browser won't install at all.
[03:19] <nequeo> If it's a language pack problem, would I see error messages?
[03:19] <Treenaks> nequeo: just a window with an XML error
[03:19] <pitti> nequeo: yes, there should be a yellow error box
[03:19] <nequeo> Then it ain't that.
[03:19] <nequeo> I get nothing. 
[03:19] <pitti> nequeo: try to run 'firefox' in a console
[03:19] <nequeo> Fails silently after about half a second.
[03:20] <pitti> nequeo: the output could point to the reason
[03:20] <Riddell> pitti: hi
[03:21] <nequeo> If I run /usr/lib/mozilla-firefox/firefox-bin directly it complains it can't find libmozjs.so  
[03:21] <pitti> Riddell: I'm almost done with the xpdf/poppler/cupsys/tetex-bin patch-o-rama; what's the status of koffice/kdf?
[03:21] <nequeo> Which is sitting there in the same directory.
[03:21] <pitti> Riddell: do you want to do this soon and do a common USN, or a followup USN with the KDE packages?
[03:22] <nequeo> If I create a symlink to it in /usr/lib it complains about other missing libs. If I symlink them all then it, once again, just fails silently with nothing printed to the console.
[03:22] <pitti> Riddell: (btw, those xpdf itches really piss me off... :( we should make sure to build everything against poppler in dapper)
[03:22] <Riddell> pitti: still working on it, ok to wait a couple of hours?
[03:22] <pitti> Riddell: yes, sure
[03:22] <pitti> Riddell: do the exploits work for you?
[03:23] <Mithrandir> pitti: can you please tell me what AltGr-q and AltGr-o outputs on your box?  (In X)
[03:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: AltGr+Q == @
[03:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: AltGr+O == 
[03:24] <pitti> Mithrandir: (that's de-nodeadkeys)
[03:24] <pitti> (but I normally use us layout)
[03:29] <Riddell> pitti: still testing, sorry been busy with kubuntu CDs this morning
[03:29] <pitti> Riddell: oh, I didn't want to hurry you, I just want to know the schedule :)
[03:33] <Kamion> Mithrandir: I think it might be a good idea to preseed cdrom-checker/start=true for the check boot option; do you agree?
[03:34] <Riddell> pitti: I can confirm that all those PDFs do nasty things, I'll get on with the patches
[03:35] <Mithrandir> pitti: excellent, thanks.
[03:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: agreed.
[03:35] <Kamion> also a shame that it flickers so much with long filenames due to the dialog box size changing; perhaps it might be a good idea for cdrom-checker to list only the basename
[03:35] <Kamion> although I guess that doesn't give you so good an indication of how far through the disk it is
[03:36] <Mithrandir> the progress bar should give you that. :-)
[03:36] <Kamion> Mithrandir: actually, rather than me doing that preseed in the boot option, perhaps just do it in cdrom-checker-menu
[03:36] <Kamion> true that :)
[03:36] <Mithrandir> I'll look at it, but not now.
[03:36] <Kamion> sure, no rush
[03:36] <pitti> Riddell: *all*? bad6 and bad7 were already fixed by the previous patches in xpdf and poppler
[03:37] <Mithrandir> Kamion: please do file a bug and assign it to me, though
[03:40] <Riddell> pitti: all bad for original breezy, those two are fine for current breezy-security but that patch from KDE is against the original
[03:40] <Kamion> Mithrandir: done for the menu confirmation question; the flicker is already filed upstream
[03:42] <Mithrandir> Kamion: good, thanks.
[03:42] <pitti> Riddell: ah, I see
[03:42] <pitti> Riddell: that sounds correct
[03:53] <janimo> elmo, please sync thunar and orage (both NEW for ubuntu) from sid. thank you
[03:53] <elmo> janimo: you don't have to ask for NEW to ubuntu packages to be synced, it's done semi-automatically
[03:54] <tseng> yay thunar
[03:56] <janimo> elmo, ah ok. I knew they are in sid but still did not show up so I was wondering what is wrong with them
[03:56] <zakame> w00t
[03:57] <janimo> elmo, if you have time , jani@ubuntu.com GPG-key for main. thanks
[03:59] <elmo> janimo: right, sorry
[04:01] <janimo> pitti, I am sure you too are very busy, but if you can estimate when you have time to review some of the xfce packages in the queue would be nice. You can do just one a day, fine with me  ;)
[04:06] <pitti> janimo: right, I'm swamped in security updates ATM; I'll promise, I'll try to get better :)
[04:06] <janimo> ok, thanks
[04:08] <Riddell> pitti: apparantly poppler with kpdf is not hard, but will add back rendering bugs they've fixed https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=119455
[04:08] <Riddell> pitti: and poppler with kword is hard beause it uses xpdf 2 and poppler is xpdf 3
[04:08] <pitti> 2???
[04:08] <pitti> OMG
[04:09] <pitti> Riddell: can't we fix the rendering bugs in poppler then?
[04:09] <pitti> and for kword it seems that upstream needs a serious kick then?
[04:10] <Riddell> pitti: as that bug says he has trouble getting the other poppler developers to agree to changes
[04:10] <Riddell> pitti: and I don't think that import filter for kword has a maintainer
[04:11] <pitti> Riddell: if that's difficult, we could at least apply the fix in Ubuntu and Debian
[04:11] <seb128> Riddell: if there is some rendering bug, poppler upstream will agree they need to be fixed for sure, no?
[04:11] <pitti> Riddell: fixing rendering bugs would be beneficial for evince, too
[04:12] <Riddell> you would think so
[04:12] <Riddell> I don't know the specifics of what he's tried to get in
[04:12] <seb128> that's some subjective rendering difference and they don't agree that's a bug?
[04:12] <pitti> I talked to the poppler people this morning, they seemed to be pretty open
[04:13] <seb128> they are usually
[04:13] <seb128> pitti: BTW they took the poppler-utils change we have upstream
[04:13] <pitti> yes, they told me
[04:13] <pitti> seb128: also, Ondrey already fixed Debian (he applied my patch within 2 hours or so :) )
[04:14] <seb128> pitti: yeah, we have talked on #gnome-debian about using splash or cairo too
[04:15] <pitti> Kamion, Mithrandir: do you have a minute for a small sudo security discussion?
[04:32] <Keybuk> fabbione: usb-storage gets loaded by modules.alias iirc
[04:41] <ryanpg> quick question, xserver-xorg seems to depend on xserver-xorg-driver-*, is it the goal to eventually be able to install only the drivers needed for specific hardware? should I file a bug/feature request or am I jumping the gun...
[04:42] <doko_> Kamion, mdz, elmo: please promote gcj-4.0-base to main. this is fallout from the gcc-4.0/gcj-4.0 package split
[04:45] <Riddell> pitti: hmm, the kpdf patch for breezy only fixes bad6 and bad7, the rest are still affected
[04:46] <pitti> Riddell: that's what I meant, I had to do a slightly different patch for xpdf and poppler
[04:47] <pitti> Riddell: can you please compare it with https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=4247 ?
[04:47] <pitti> Riddell: (that patch is relative to the previous patches CVE-2005-3191/2/3)
[04:47] <pitti> Riddell: and it's the patch against poppler, but it shouldn't really matter
[04:48] <pitti> Riddell: this is the patch I sent to the poppler upstream guys
[04:48] <Kamion> pitti: yes, although I'm rather behind since I didn't really follow the last discussion in the TB
[04:48] <pitti> Kamion: oh, it's an entirely different topic :)
[04:48] <pitti> Kamion: I just fixed a sudo vuln in stables that filter out PERLLIB, PERL5LIB, RUBYPATH, etc.
[04:49] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. when granting limited sudo access to perl or ruby scripts, setting these variables to own libs woudl give you full root access
[04:50] <pitti> Kamion: for stables I just filtered out a whole bunch of perl, python, ruby, zsh variables, but this is pretty silly
[04:50] <pitti> so for dapper I tend to use Joey's approach of a whitelist
[04:50] <pitti> http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi/x?bug=342948;msg=20;att=1
[04:50] <pitti> Kamion: i. e. he filters out all but a small set of known good variables
[04:51] <pitti> Kamion: do you see any potential breakage in this? it's too hot for stable updates, but for dapper it coudl be worthwhile
[04:53] <pitti> Mithrandir: ^ in case you want to read it, too
[04:54] <pitti> slomo: 'check' - what a dull package name...
[04:55] <slomo> pitti: not my fault ;)
[04:55] <pitti> I know :)
[04:56] <Kamion> pitti: it would be real hassle for me; I often do 'SOME_RANDOM_VARIABLE=foo sudo blah' when testing things, and I'd be amazed if I were the only one
[04:56] <Kamion> it would piss me off mightily if sudo started filtering that
[04:56] <pitti> sudo env VAR=foo bla?
[04:56] <pitti> well, anyway, I see the point
[04:56] <pitti> but this way it's just playing catchup with programming languages
[04:57] <Keybuk> does LD_LIBRARY_PATH=... sudo work?
[04:57] <Kamion> I suppose that works, and I can see the argument; but if sudo goes this way it would be nice for it to have a way to disable it if you have sufficient sudoers power
[04:57] <pitti> Kamion: bdale changed Debian to use 'reset_env' by default when creating a new /etc/sudoers, but that will probably never apply to us, I guess
[04:57] <Kamion> oh, if it's a switch in sudoers then that would be ok
[04:58] <Keybuk> *nods* if it's a switch, I can just turn it off <g>
[04:58] <Keybuk> or, more likely, train myself to use sudo env instead
[04:58] <Keybuk> though doesn't that have exactly the same flaw?
[04:59] <Keybuk> oh, I guess you wouldn't give people access to run env :p
[04:59] <pitti> Keybuk: yes, all LD_* variables are killed
[04:59] <pitti> Keybuk: that would be a feature
[05:00] <pitti> Keybuk: with unlimited access, variable filtering is no issue anyway, and with limited access you probably want to keep it limited :)
[05:00] <Keybuk> is there any particular reason it filters if you have blanket root anyway?
[05:00] <pitti> i. e. not allow to circumvent it
[05:00] <pitti> Keybuk: no
[05:00] <pitti> Kamion: just if you restrict access to e. g. a Perl script
[05:00] <pitti> then creating your own library with the same name as a module that is included by the script, and passing the path to it to PERL5LIB would give you r00t
[05:01] <Keybuk> giving most perl scripts any input containing ` gives you root :p
[05:01] <pitti> Kamion: do you how and where the initial user is put into sudoers?
[05:02] <pitti> Kamion: if we don't use whitelisting, I would at least go with bdale's approach and enable reset_env for new installs
[05:02] <Kamion> pitti: formerly passwd.config, now user-setup
[05:03] <Kamion> pitti: I don't see the point; the initial user is given ALL=ALL anyway
[05:03] <pitti> Kamion: hm, that sounds as if it would create the file before sudo's postinst runs?
[05:03] <mdz> Kamion,pitti: I'd say that sudo should filter the environment only if the command is restricted
[05:03] <Kamion> no, it's run from prebaseconfig well after the base system is installed
[05:03] <pitti> ok
[05:03] <pitti> mdz: sudo doesn't support that ATM :(
[05:03] <Keybuk> hmm, you said it filters zsh stuff?  that would annoy the hell out of me ... I use sudo -s a lot, and expect all my zsh gadgets to work there too
[05:04] <pitti> bah, there are just too many ways to shoot yourself in the foot
[05:05] <pitti> Keybuk: NULLCMD, READNULLCMD, ZDOTDIR, TMPPREFIX - these are the variables that will now be filtered; would that affect your use case?
[05:05] <mdz> pitti: sudo -s will do what he expects unless HOME is changed
[05:06] <Keybuk> ZDOTDIR would
[05:06] <mdz> Keybuk: you set it to something other than $HOME?
[05:06] <Kamion> doko_: gcj-4.0-base promoted
[05:06] <Keybuk> mdz: I had problems with sudo changing HOME on me ;)
[05:07] <Keybuk> sudo -s would have HOME=/root for some reason
[05:07] <Keybuk> which meant all my zsh gadgets went missing
[05:07] <Keybuk> it doesn't seem to currently though
[05:07] <pitti> Keybuk: but changing HOME is a feature, not a bug...
[05:07] <mdz> mizar:[/tmp]  sudo -s
[05:07] <mdz> Password:
[05:07] <mdz> mizar# echo $HOME
[05:07] <mdz> /home/mdz
[05:07] <mdz> it's always done that
[05:07] <janimo> elmo, I still get REJECT from main upload, key C5AA2301. Does it take more time after you enable it?
[05:07] <pitti> Keybuk: otherwise you probably want sudo -s, not -i
[05:07] <Diziet> For unrestricted sudo you want `really' which is far simpler.  For restricted sudo you need userv, because restricted sudo is like a swiss cheese.
[05:07] <mdz> -i changes home
[05:08] <Keybuk> pitti: I still don't see why sudo feels the need to fuck up my environment if I have effective root access anyway
[05:08] <Keybuk> sure, I could put some elaborate hack with ZDOTDIR to run something as root ...
[05:08] <Keybuk> ... or I could just sudo and do it
[05:08] <pitti> Keybuk: erm, what mdz says; I swapped that
[05:09] <mdz> Keybuk: yes, ideally it shouldn't mess with the environment unless you're only privileged to run certain commands
[05:09] <mdz> I'm amazed it doesn't work that way already
[05:09] <pitti> but such changes are not really appropriate for stable-security...
[05:10] <mdz> the fact that it's using a whitelist fills me with dread
[05:10] <Keybuk> I can definitely understand and support an environment whitelist for "sudo foo" if you're only allowed to run foo
[05:10] <mdz> er, blacklist
[05:10] <Keybuk> but not if you're allowed to run anything ;)
[05:10] <Kamion> lamont-away: can you give-back openoffice.org2 please? it only failed due to my libsane screwup
[05:11] <mdz> Keybuk: that's what I said (both times)
[05:12] <Keybuk> mdz: then we agree ;)  you take his arms, I'll take his legs ... the canal beckons
[05:12] <pitti> mdz: well, at least I'd like to fix stables soon, and my current patch just extends the blacklist; I think we won't get around with doing even less
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: yes, for stable
[05:12] <mdz> pitti: but we should fix it forever for dapper
[05:12] <pitti> mdz: agreed - whitelist for limited access, unfiltered for unlimited access
[05:12] <fabbione> Kamion, Keybuk, mdz: can we have a very fast meeting for booting-from-usb ?
[05:13] <mdz> this gives me a chilly feeling about sudo upstream
[05:13] <mdz> fabbione: ok
[05:13] <Kamion> sure
[05:13] <fabbione> #ubuntu-meeting?
[05:13] <Keybuk> fabbione: sure
[05:13] <fabbione> great
[05:14] <pitti> hi jdthood, how are you? happy new year
[05:14] <jdthood> pitti: Cheers to you too!
[05:15] <janimo> elmo, please sync newer thunar from debian (looks like it entered after todays autosync although the date is Jan 4).Anyway it fixes an amd64 FTBFS. thanks
[05:16] <elmo> janimo: please stop asking me for no-op syncs
[05:16] <elmo> thunar is unmodified, it'll be synced automatically as when the archive can
[05:16] <elmo> and try your main upload again, it really should work now
[05:17] <janimo> elmo, ok. I checked to make sure it's not a no-op. debian has newer version here http://ftp.debian.org/debian/pool/main/t/thunar/
[05:17] <janimo> theirs is -3 ours -2
[05:18] <elmo> janimo: dude, it's no-op
[05:18] <janimo> meaning?
[05:18] <elmo> unless there's an 'ubuntu' in the version, it'll be automatically synced
[05:18] <elmo> there's no ubuntu in the version ==> you don't need to ask me to sync it
[05:19] <janimo> ok, I asked because I wanted it now :)
[05:19] <janimo> so I don't modify something in it (fix FTBFS) and then have to ask for override anyway tomorrow
[05:19] <janimo> I misunderstood what you meant by no-op
[05:20] <elmo> you can't have it now
[05:20] <elmo> debian's key changes have broken the sync scripts
[05:20] <elmo> just assume it'll be synced eventually, and move onto something else
[05:20] <janimo> ok, thanks
[05:21] <Diziet> Where can I find where Gnome keeps its mapping from file extensions to mime types ?
[05:22] <Diziet> Something thinks that a `.deb' is an `application/x-deb'.  The canonical and obviously more correct answer seems to be `application/x-debian-package'.
[05:22] <Keybuk> /etc/mime.types
[05:22] <Diziet> Nope, looked there.
[05:22] <Diziet> That has the right info.
[05:22] <Diziet> But in Nautilus, right-click menu / Properties, I see the wrong MIME type.
[05:23] <Diziet> In fact I grepped /etc.  I could grep /usr too ...
[05:24] <Diziet> And there isn't already a database of `safe' mime types, is there ?  Ie, ones that we can safely double-click on in Nautilus or `open' from a browser, without executing them.
[05:25] <Keybuk> Diziet: shared-mine-info package?
[05:25] <janimo> does not use fd.o mime info?
[05:25] <janimo> in  /usr/share/mime/packages/freedesktop.org.xml
[05:25] <Diziet> Ah yes, there it is.  Excellent.  Now I know where to fix that one :-).
[05:30] <Diziet> Dammit, how do I make a file un`open'able in Nautilus ?
[05:31] <Diziet> I mean, I want to fool Nautilus into thinking it doesn't know how to open it.
[05:31] <Diziet> Or some other technique would be OK too, but the user still has to be able to copy the file about
[05:34] <Keybuk> properties, remove all the apps associated with it?
[05:35] <HiddenWolf> Keybuk, I don't think you can remove the default when there is no other app set.
[05:35] <Diziet> This is getting quite out of hand.  I wanted to defend the user from unwise clicking.  Ie, make it impossible for the user to install or execute software just by constantly clicking on stuff to `see it'.
[05:36] <Diziet> So eg if you visit a page which has some executable on it, you can't execute it by downloading it and then double-clicking on the copy on the desktop.
[05:38] <Diziet> But to do this properly will need serious effort.  Eg, what if it's in a zipfile ?
[05:40] <Diziet> Maybe MAC labels would do it.  How about it ?  Everything from the web (and we patch the mailreaders too) gets tagged with `may not be opened other than by blessed programs'.  That'd put a spanner in the `rich user experience'.
[05:41] <Diziet> I think I'll go back to solving solveable bugs.
[05:43] <Keybuk> Diziet: you shouldn't be able to anyway
[05:43] <Keybuk> the executable won't be, err, executable
[05:43] <Keybuk> if it's a zip file, or some other file handled by an application, what's wrong with it being opened
[05:43] <Keybuk> if I downloaded a jpeg, and couldn't double-click it to see the porn in better detail, I'd get annoyed
[05:48] <Diziet> Right.
[05:48] <Diziet> But there are file types that don't need to be +x to be `executed'.
[05:49] <Keybuk> there are?
[05:49] <Diziet> For example, application/x-debian-package.  Which is only safe because in our firefox the debian-view program runs in the terminal where you can't see it, and Nautilus gets the file type wrong and runs file-roller on it which can't cope.
[05:49] <Keybuk> if you really want to fix a major bug, you can fix the one where you can get a user to download a .desktop file that can run anything
[05:50] <Diziet> Right.  That's another example.
[05:50] <Keybuk> Diziet: I thought mvo had written a program to run on those
[05:50] <Diziet> keybuk: mvo> I wouldn't be surprised, but it's not plubmed in.
[05:50] <lamont-away> Kamion: given back
[05:50] <Diziet> But you hardly want it to pop up a thing offering to install it !
[05:50] <Kamion> lamont-away: thanks
[05:50] <Keybuk> why not?
[05:50] <Kamion> Diziet: I've been arguing that with people for the last year and a half
[05:51] <Diziet> Because the user thinks that `click' means `show me what this is'.
[05:51] <Keybuk> afaik mvo's thing tells you what it is, and offers to let you install it if you type in your password and ignore all of the "THIS IS DANGEROUS" signs
[05:51] <Diziet> And always answers `yes' to all confirmation dialogues because they're always `[Yes]  (work) or [No]  (don't work)'
[05:52] <Keybuk> there's lower hanging fruit
[05:52] <Keybuk> the .desktop problem is a real one
[05:52] <Diziet> It's the _same problem_.
[05:52] <Keybuk> no it isn't
[05:52] <Keybuk> the .desktop one is that nautilus has built-in handling that assumes they're all safe
[05:52] <Keybuk> and that they can be customised to look like whatever you want
[05:52] <Keybuk> like innocuous text files
[05:53] <Keybuk> that's a problem
[05:53] <Diziet> Yes, it is.  The problem is that you can download some random file and firefox (which is what knows that it's not safe) ought not to leave it lying around in a way that clicking on it is dangerous.
[05:53] <Keybuk> the fact that files can be opened with helper programs is not a problem, that's design
[05:53] <Diziet> Obviously whether a file is dangerous depends on the file.
[05:53] <Keybuk> if we have file-type helper programs that act immediately, that's the bug
[05:53] <Diziet> In particular, it depends on what Nautilus will do when the user clicks.
[05:54] <Keybuk> not that you can double-click files and have the right program loaded for them
[05:54] <Diziet> Err, I'm not saying you shouldn't have the right program run - if the file and the program is supposedly safe.
[05:54] <Diziet> Eg, an image viewer.
[05:54] <Diziet> We consider it a security bug if an image viewer executes the image.
[05:54] <Keybuk> what isn't safe though?
[05:54] <Diziet> There has to be a whitelist.
[05:55] <Keybuk> the mime type handling list is the whitelist
[05:55] <Mithrandir> pitti: (I was off eating dinner)  I do FOO=whatever command once in a while and it would be very annoying if that broke, like Colin said.
[05:55] <Keybuk> we just shouldn't put dangerous things in that
[05:55] <Diziet> But it's full of stuff like `run wine on this .exe'.
[05:55] <Keybuk> now that's a valid bug ;)
[05:55] <Diziet> But if you have the .exe installed on your machine and double-click on it it _ought_ to run it with Wine !
[05:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: <pitti> mdz: agreed - whitelist for limited access, unfiltered for unlimited access
[05:55] <pitti> Mithrandir: do you agree with that?
[05:55] <slomo> wine on every *.exe is wrong anyway
[05:56] <Keybuk> Diziet: perhaps you could hook the nautilus "this file may be unsafe, do you want to FOO or BAR thing?"
[05:56] <Keybuk> it does that for shell scripts, etc.
[05:56] <Keybuk> lets you open them in a text editor instead
[05:56] <Mithrandir> pitti: that works for me, since I have full access where I have sudo, at least generally. :-)
[05:56] <Kamion> .exe files should just be made executable and use binfmt-support
[05:56] <Diziet> keybuk: How can I signal to it ?
[05:56] <Keybuk> dunno, sure it's possible
[05:56] <Kamion> then if you drop the MIME handling for them, non-executable .exe files are safe
[05:56] <pitti> Mithrandir: I also did a followup to http://bugs.debian.org/342948
[05:56] <Kamion> and executable ones work as expected
[05:57] <Diziet> kamion: That would be a reasonable approach.
[05:57] <Keybuk> Kamion: that's how you have to do it for the mono ones already
[05:57] <Kamion> Keybuk: indeed so
[05:57] <Diziet> So 18701 is a bug in the wine package ?
[05:57] <Kamion> Diziet: in whatever does the MIME handling, I'd've thought
[05:57] <Diziet> Err, wine presumabely specifies its own mailcap entries or what have you.,
[05:58] <Kamion> I don't know the layout
[05:58] <Kamion> but if so, I'd think so, yes
[05:58] <Diziet> What's the mime type of a .desktop file ?
[05:58] <Keybuk> there isn't one, is there?
[05:58] <Keybuk> that handling is hard-coded into nautilus
[05:59] <slomo> application/x-desktop
[05:59] <Diziet> Firefox ought to think harder about the extensions on files it downloads, anyway.
[05:59] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: except that the dialog is stupid enough that it can't differentiate between "shell script" and "text file which accidentially got its executable bits twiddled", so it gets annoying after a while.
[06:00] <Keybuk> Mithrandir: didn't they fix that?
[06:00] <Keybuk> would be easy enough, open it, read(,2) and strcmp("#!")
[06:01] <Kamion> Keybuk: help, udev-udeb seems to be linked against libsepol1
[06:01] <Runix> hi
[06:01] <Runix> i would like to say thank to Mark Shuttleworth
[06:01] <Kamion> udevplug: error while loading shared libraries: libsepol.so.1: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory
[06:02] <Keybuk> Kamion: yes, it would be
[06:02] <Runix> can i ask?
[06:02] <Keybuk> selinux dragged it in as a new dep
[06:02] <Mithrandir> Keybuk: possibly, I just know I've been annoyed aobut it in the past.
[06:02] <Kamion> Keybuk: udev-udeb shouldn't be linked against selinux though
[06:03] <Keybuk> Kamion: meh, that'd involve compiling udev twice, differently
[06:03] <Keybuk> and I'd hate you for that
[06:03] <Keybuk> and sulk
[06:03] <Keybuk> and stuff
[06:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: yes; I'd hate you for having to put together selinux udebs for no reason though
[06:03] <Runix> i'm italian ubuntu user
[06:03] <Keybuk> isn't there an selinux udeb? :p
[06:03] <Keybuk> after all, udev-udeb has always needed that anyway, no?
[06:03] <Mithrandir> Runix: talk to sabdfl, then.
[06:03] <Kamion> Runix: he may not be around, but we can always accept your thanks on behalf of Canonical, I suppose :)
[06:03] <Kamion> Keybuk: never has before
[06:03] <Mithrandir> Kamion: he's in the channel, at least.
[06:03] <Keybuk> has since UBZ
[06:04] <Runix> i don't speak english very well
[06:04] <Runix> sorry
[06:04] <Kamion> Keybuk: no, it really hasn't
[06:04] <Kamion> this is new breakage
[06:04] <Keybuk> Kamion: it deps on sepol, but not selinux?
[06:04] <Runix> yes
[06:04] <Keybuk> this could be just shlibs breakage
[06:04] <Runix> i say tahnk you for all team around ubuntu
[06:05] <Kamion> Keybuk: hmph, it does seem that it's been depending on selinux for a bit, but not actually caring that it isn't there
[06:05] <Kamion> OH
[06:05] <Kamion> headdesk
[06:05] <Kamion> d-i is pulling in libselinux.so.1 from the .deb in its initrd build process, because it's clever that way
[06:05] <Keybuk> I think it's been depending on both for ages ;)
[06:06] <Kamion> yeah, sorry, you're right
[06:06] <Runix> i would like to see in ubuntu desktop a program like yast
[06:06] <Runix> why is not possible?
[06:06] <Kamion> Runix: we like to maintain only one program for each task where possible; in this case, we'd prefer to put effort into improving gnome-system-tools.
[06:07] <daq4th> and the only thing in yast which works is the frontend ...
[06:07] <Keybuk> Kamion: I could make a no-selinux compile for the udeb ... but I've so far been cautious about making custom compiles for things, as it means they behave slightly different
[06:07] <Keybuk> having the same udevd in the initramfs, main system and installer has been a bonus for debugging
[06:07] <Kamion> Keybuk: ok, it would be absolutely lovely to fix this, but in the meantime I can sort of work around it I think
[06:08] <Keybuk> there's no clean way to package it though :-/
[06:08] <Keybuk> you can't out-of-tree build udev
[06:08] <Kamion> this is why the Debian package does that hardlink tree thing
[06:08] <Keybuk> which means you need to make clean, and make again in one of the binary targets
[06:08] <Keybuk> which SUCKS
[06:08] <Runix> thank you Kamion, there is a fronted like yast on ubuntu?
[06:09] <Keybuk> I'd be more tempted to just disable selinux in general :p
[06:09] <Runix> i mean control center for hardware
[06:09] <Kamion> Keybuk: or you could copy the whole source tree
[06:09] <Keybuk> that seems ugly to me
[06:09] <Kamion> so does installer code depending on selinux ...
[06:10] <Kamion> the hardlink tree thing seems to work fine in Debian though
[06:10] <Keybuk> the Debian package is dbs, remember
[06:10] <Keybuk> so has the tarball inside it, and can just unpack two build trees
[06:10] <Kamion> it doesn't rely on that for the udev-udeb build though
[06:10] <Keybuk> doesn't it, can't say I've looked for a while
[06:11] <Kamion> it has an lndir.sh script which builds a hardlinked copy of the source after unpacking the upstream tarball and patches and such
[06:11] <Keybuk> hmm
[06:11] <Keybuk> I'd actually have to rewrite the entire source anyway
[06:11] <Kamion> Runix: I'm not familiar enough with YaST to answer that, I'm afraid
[06:11] <Keybuk> I hate d-i
[06:11] <slomo> was debhelper or better po-debconf broken earlier today and is this fixed now (i can't reproduce it at least)? fontforge and theora failed because of it " debhelper: Depends: po-debconf but it is not going to be installed"
[06:11] <Keybuk> it's soo damned invasive to other packages
[06:11] <Kamion> Keybuk: why a rewrite?
[06:11] <Keybuk> Kamion: because I build the udeb by copying things out of the real one's tree
[06:12] <Keybuk> I'd have to rewrite it to run make install, and copy them from the source tree
[06:12] <Kamion> so you'd have to rewrite debian/rules, yeah
[06:12] <Keybuk> meh
[06:12] <Keybuk> this seems like TOO MUCH WORK
[06:12] <Kamion> or at least the udev parts of it
[06:12] <Keybuk> I'm so just going to disable selinux
[06:12] <Keybuk> we don't use it anyway
[06:13] <Kamion> don't the selinux guys need udev to support it?
[06:13] <Keybuk> probably
[06:13] <Keybuk> but then won't they also need the installer to support it?
[06:13] <Kamion> no
[06:13] <Kamion> at least nobody's ever said that, and I can't see why they would
[06:13] <Kamion> I'll just shove workaround build-deps in d-i for now
[06:14] <Keybuk> dunno
[06:15] <Keybuk> I know more about the ancient marital practices of outer-mongolian tribes than I do about selinux
[06:15] <Kamion> cool
[06:21] <pitti> btw, am I the only one who loves nickserv messages? "[pitti]  has been killed"
[06:22] <dilinger> pitti: noticing the latest sudo update.. why doesn't sudo just filter all variables except those it considers valid, instead of the other way around? :P
[06:22] <pitti> dilinger: I love you for that statement :)
[06:22] <pitti> dilinger: for stables it's too hot, but I'd love to go this way for sid and dapper
[06:23] <Kamion> dilinger: we discussed that above ...
[06:23] <pitti> dilinger: please write that to Debian #342948 :)
[06:23] <dilinger> Kamion: hm, no longer in my scrollback buffer :/
[06:28] <doko_> Kamion: are you going to upgrade groff before UVF?
[06:28] <Kamion> doko_: no, see Debian bug #196762, please leave it
[06:29] <Kamion> unless you fancy helping to forward-port the Japanese support patch of course ...
[06:35] <dholbach> mvo: bon appetit
[06:41] <pitti> Riddell: what's your ETA?
[06:42] <Kamion> argh, need to make oo.o2 build somehow
[06:43] <Kamion> and cron.sync doesn't work due to the Debian archive key changes
[06:43] <Seveas> pitti, are you going to pastebin all USN's? :)
[06:43] <pitti> Seveas: just the ones I want review for :)
[06:43] <elmo> Kamion: I'm working on it
[06:44] <Riddell> pitti: still some time yet, if you're ready with your stuff I'd say do them separately
[06:44] <pitti> Riddell: yes, it's ready for some hours now
[06:44] <pitti> Riddell: ok, a separate update doesn't hurt
[06:49] <Keybuk> I wanted to write a Java application called pickle once
[06:49] <Kamion> drawback of the simplified live CD is that kernel ABI transitions require an installable desktop before the live CD can be rebuilt
[06:50] <Kamion> and until that happens, it's toast
[06:51] <Mithrandir> Kamion: I guess that's an incentive to keep the desktop installable a bit more
[06:51] <Mithrandir> we should become better at that anyway, imo
[06:51] <Kamion> yes
[06:56] <dilinger> pitti: sent
[07:07] <Riddell> pitti: I've applied all the changes as they appear in that patch you pointed me to and it still doesn't fix any more bad PDFs
[07:27] <Keybuk> right, dinner time
[07:29] <mdz> dholbach: around?
[07:30] <dholbach> mdz: yes
[07:32] <nekohayo> anyone knows what could cause a segfault when doing a mkdir ? I'm trying to use checkinstall to make a deb for gnonlin and I get a segmentation fault when trying to do mkdir -p "/usr/share/doc/gnonlin-0.10.0.4"
[07:42] <Kamion> maybe this time it'll work ...
[07:52] <pitti> Riddell: hm, screwy... the patch worked fine for me; what is the embedded xpdf version, 3 or 2?
[07:52] <pitti> Riddell: I can send you a patch for xpdf 2 if you need
[07:53] <Kamion> ... nope
[07:54] <Burgwork> Kamion, if we are not calling it UE, are we calling it Espresso now
[07:54] <Burgwork> ?
[07:54] <Kamion> Burgwork: yes
[07:55] <Burgwork> ugh, rebranding sucks
[07:55] <Kamion> Burgwork: I'm not making much of a big deal out of it yet because I don't want somebody else to decide that it would be great if they implemented Espresso first and called it that, again :P
[07:55] <Kamion> Burgwork: you're welcome to continue to call the *project* Ubuntu Express, but this implementation is called espresso
[07:55] <Burgwork> ok
[07:56] <Burgwork> is css broken on planet.u.c for anybody else?
[07:56] <Kamion> the name ubuntu-express has become the village bike and is now functionally unusable as a package name without confusion
[07:56] <Kamion> we should make a note in the future never to use project names as spec titles
[07:56] <Burgwork> plus it violates the don't have ubuntu in our names
[07:56] <Kamion> indeed
[07:56] <Kamion> (another reason I was, in the end, happy enough to rename)
[07:57] <Kamion> doko_: still around?
[07:57] <Burgwork> Kamion, for those on the forums, what sort of timeline do you expect to have the first working version out there?
[07:57] <Kamion> doko_: there are uninstallables due to the libgcj6-common -> libgcj6-jar rename; can you deal with them?
[07:57] <Kamion> Burgwork: I'm not going to answer that yet
[07:57] <Kamion> I have enough pressure from the team without the forums too, thanks :-)
[07:58] <Burgwork> Kamion, I told them wait, but people never get that
[07:58] <Kamion> just ignore "are we there yet"
[07:58] <Burgwork> as long as you meet UI freeze, me as doc team guy won't hunt you down
[07:58] <tseng> Burgwork: forums are intrinsically over-eager to an extreme degree
[07:58] <Kamion> doko_: oh, hey, you could just make libgcj6-jar Provides: libgcj6-common; that would sort everything out
[07:59] <Burgwork> tseng, they are great for free marketing, but yes, a little over-eager
[07:59] <Kamion> my best answer right now is "the more people ask about it, the later it'll be"
[07:59] <pitti> NOOOOO - the world seems to hate me *sniff*
[07:59] <doko_> Kamion: already done, should be gone away with the java-gcj-compat sync tonight
[07:59] <pitti> I just finished to patch 4 xpdf vulns in 8 packages, and now a SuSE dude comes along and finds another one???
[08:00] <Kamion> doko_: oh, done in Debian?
[08:00] <doko_> Kamion: and yes, I think I forgot to ask for promotion in main as well
[08:00] <pitti> Riddell: ^ more phun ahead (but no patch yet)
[08:00] <doko_> Kamion: yes
[08:01] <tseng> pitti: they want to steal pmount away from you also :P
[08:01] <tseng> pitti: with the new hal
[08:01] <Kamion> elmo: any chance you could sync java-gcj-compat from incoming? I badly need a working live CD
[08:01] <pitti> tseng: oh, pmount has a lot of non-gnome users, I'm not concerned about 'stealing' at all
[08:02] <Kamion> doko_: there's also ecj-bootstrap
[08:02] <pitti> tseng: but apart from that the current upstream development is frightening and insane
[08:02] <doko_> can anybody remember, why we do have vnc4 in main, and not tightvnc? vnc4 includes a copy of Xfree86-4.2
[08:02] <doko_> Kamion: oops, will do as well
[08:02] <Kamion> thanks
[08:03] <Riddell> pitti: it's xpdf 3
[08:04] <pitti> hi daniels 
[08:05] <tseng> daniels: nice work with x-crack-o-the-day
[08:06] <daniels> ta
[08:07] <Kamion> doko_: if you could let lamont/infinity know when all the gcj/ecj fixes are in the archive so that they can give-back openoffice.org2, that would rock ... I'll be going out for the evening soon
[08:08] <doko_> Kamion: will do. is libgcj6-jar promoted?
[08:08] <Kamion> doko_: yes
[08:09] <elmo> Kamion: done
[08:09] <Kamion> thanks
[08:18] <\sh> Kamion: what is linux-kernel-di-{i386/powerpc}-2.6 in universe? I see you made some changes and merges for it
[08:20] <doko_> pitti: make sure you fix them in poppler as well ;-P or is this a seb task
[08:20] <\sh> grmpf...12h disconnect
[08:21] <Diziet> Finally !
[08:21] <jbailey> daniels: Is the upstream changelog for xserver-xorg-driver-ati found in a different package?
[08:21] <daniels> Diziet: yaay! :)
[08:21] <daniels> jbailey: everything before 7.0RC4 can be found at http://cvs.freedesktop.org/xorg/xc/ChangeLog
[08:22] <Diziet> To add insult to injury, it's a two-line fix (well, a one-line fix duplicated in two places).
[08:22] <daniels> jbailey: before mid-Dec, the module ChangeLogs were only used for logging changes to the build system, and even then not always.
[08:22] <jbailey> daniels: Ah, okay.
[08:23] <jbailey> daniels: Just given the problems I've had with X, I went to go look for them and didn't know where to find.  IS this a good place to check ongoing?
[08:23] <daniels> jbailey: in terms of ongoing stuff, yeah.  it's not a useful retrospective, but that's all changed now.
[08:23] <jbailey> Cool, thanks.
[08:24] <HiddenWolf> daniels, is dapper at the final xorg version now?
[08:25] <daniels> HiddenWolf: except for the proto modules, which I'm finishing up now
[08:25] <janimo> daniels, do you know if r300 is going into X upstream soon?
[08:26] <mjg59> janimo: It's in X upstream
[08:26] <daniels> janimo: 'four months ago'
[08:26] <janimo> do we have it in ubuntu?
[08:26] <mjg59> In Dapper? Yes
[08:26] <janimo> hmm
[08:26] <jbailey> janimo: I'm using it.
[08:27] <janimo> oh, ok. Is it 3d acceled nicely?
[08:27] <janimo> I have to try it out myself too then
[08:28] <daniels> it's either nicely 3d accelerated, or your computer hangs
[08:28] <janimo> is x.org being imported into bzr soon?
[08:28] <doko_> dholbach: distrowatch thinks abiword 2.4.2 is available
[08:28] <daniels> janimo: ask the bzr guys?
[08:28] <dholbach> doko_: oh, hm
[08:28] <dholbach> doko_: if i knew from where... :)
[08:29] <daniels> janimo: the repository is ... interesting.  years of creative branching and people running rcs against the repository (not that I would ever do that, noooo ...).
[08:29] <dholbach> and hub's not here... hmm :)
[08:30] <Burgwork> dholbach, abisource sitll says 2.4.1
[08:30] <dholbach> Burgwork: that's where i looked
[08:31] <lamont-away> daniels: 0000:01:05.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc: Unknown device 5954
[08:31] <daniels> mvo: r350 in particular and ppc is still hairy
[08:31] <lamont-away> should I expect that to cause X to call a null pointer under certain acceleration thigns?
[08:31] <daniels> lamont-away: RUN AWAY
[08:31] <lamont-away>     Option          "NoAccel" "true"
[08:31] <daniels> radeon xpress stuff is crack, but airlied got himself one for christmas, so its issues should hopefully be fixing themselves shortly
[08:32] <janimo> daniels is it now possible to hack on X without having the whole tree?
[08:32] <daniels> lamont-away: breezy, or dapper?
[08:32] <lamont-away> ah, cool.
[08:32] <daniels> janimo: yes
[08:32] <lamont-away> breezy
[08:32] <daniels> lamont-away: 'yes'
[08:32] <lamont-away> should dapper be better?
[08:32] <daniels> lamont-away: Option "Accel" should fix it, and dapper is better
[08:32] <daniels> (don't ask)
[08:32] <lamont-away> daniels: Option "Accel" "true" ??
[08:32] <daniels> the "true" is redundant, but yeah
[08:33] <lamont-away> uh, ok.  that's sick
[08:33] <daniels> yes
[08:33] <janimo> daniels, by radeon xpress you mean PCIE R300 cards?
[08:34] <doko_> daniels: vnc4 includes a copy of Xfree86-4.2, what should be done with that? tightvnc might be an alternative
[08:34] <daniels> janimo: no, I mean radeon xpress cards
[08:34] <daniels> doko_: wooooooooo security holes!
[08:34] <janimo> I saw on r300 sf page they have problems with pci express
[08:34] <daniels> doko_: the answer there is 'christ almighty, don't do that'
[08:34] <daniels> janimo: that's true
[08:35] <doko_> daniels: ok, so we should demote vnc4 to universe and promote tightvnc to main
[08:35] <daniels> doko_: almost certainly
[08:35] <daniels> but don't quote me on that
[08:35] <daniels> (personally I think VNC is crack in general and would rather not have to attempt to support it, but eh)
[08:36] <janimo> freeNX misses dapper too is seems
[08:37] <daniels> yes, and for good reason
[08:37] <daniels> that thing needs serious, serious, changes before it can get into dapper
[08:37] <dholbach> daniels: not even in universe? :)
[08:38] <Burgwork> daniels, what specifically is wrong with freenx?
[08:38] <daniels> they just took the monolithic tree and threw in massive chunks of code
[08:38] <lamont-away> daniels: maybe we need a new component called 'bendover' or something....
[08:39] <daniels> it takes a herculean effort just to produce a diff relative to the original tree
[08:39] <Burgwork> daniels, you telling me freenx includes code from 6.8 and earlier?
[08:39] <daniels> Burgwork: well, given it just replaces your libX11, has a whole new X server, etc -- yes
[08:39] <janimo> daniels, I assume this is accurate enough if I want to start on X 7.0 stuff, right ? http://wiki.x.org/wiki/ModularDevelopersGuide
[08:39] <Burgwork> daniels, ok, that is very crackful
[08:40] <janimo> if I want to only work on say ati drv is it ok to have only that fromCVS and the rest of deps from ubuntu packages
[08:40] <janimo> ?
[08:40] <daniels> the second statement is true, don't know about the first
[08:40] <daniels> MDG used to be the canonical guide
[08:41] <daniels> yeah, looks pretty accurate from a brief skim
[08:41] <Diziet> daniels: Hello.  Do you want to talk about 20763 ?
[08:41] <Diziet> Need anything from me ?  etc.
[08:42] <daniels> Diziet: er
[08:43] <daniels> i'm going to go out on a limb and say that's a firefox issue
[08:43] <daniels> given the little yellow window with the red source code is what firefox throws up when it goes 'holy crap xul is all bad'
[08:43] <pvanhoof> There's a line being drawed underneat my mouse cursor since last week (and todays xserver upgrades didn't remove it) ... will it go away sooner or later?
[08:43] <pvanhoof> :p
[08:43] <Diziet> Isn't that xul in the locale packages ?
[08:44] <pvanhoof> I'm on dapper of course
[08:44] <daniels> (i don't know who flo1987@gmx.net is, nor why he assigned it to me)
[08:44] <daniels> pvanhoof: Option "SWCursor" will fix it, but I have no clue what driver you're using, sooo ...
[08:44] <daniels> Diziet: i guess.  i didn't know I was the firefox maintainer?
[08:44] <pvanhoof> fglrx, but I think it's falling back on ati atm
[08:45] <Kamion> \sh: I last changed those before the warty release
[08:45] <Kamion> \sh: they're obsolete
[08:45] <daniels> pvanhoof: what?  fglrx never 'falls back' to ati
[08:46] <\sh> Kamion: thx :)
[08:46] <pvanhoof> oh, well .. it's not finding a fglrx module in the kernel
[08:46] <pvanhoof> so whatever it does when it's not finding that module, is happening :)
[08:46] <\sh> Kamion: so elmo could morgue them or move it into the trash directly?
[08:46] <Diziet> daniels: Err, I'm missing something here.  You're responsible for mozilla-firefox-locale-all, or aren't you ?
[08:46] <Kamion> \sh: the verb is "remove", but yes
[08:47] <daniels> pvanhoof: which is probably MMIO, but still fglrx
[08:47] <daniels> Diziet: absolutely not
[08:47] <daniels> Diziet: if you look at the bug activity log, some random just assigned it to me
[08:47] <pvanhoof> daniels, I'll switch to ati ;) and if it still happens add that SWCursor option
[08:47] <\sh> elmo: can you please remove linux-kernel-di-{i386/powerpc}-2.6 from universe? thx :)
[08:48] <Diziet> daniels: Oh.  How annoying.
[08:48] <daniels> Diziet: indeed
[08:48] <daniels> Diziet: enjoy
[08:48] <Kamion> elmo: you might as well just kill linux-kernel-di-*
[08:48] <Kamion> none of them build anyway
[08:49] <Diziet> How helpful.  I did `reassign to QA contact' and it assigned it to `debzilla bug importer' !
[08:49] <Diziet> Who is in charge of langpacks then ?
[08:49] <lamont-away> pitti, iirc
[08:50] <Kamion> pitti has historically done a lot of that
[08:50] <pitti> heh, yes :)
[08:50] <lamont-away> W: bind9: package-has-a-duplicate-relation depends: libisccc0, libisccc0 (= 1:9.3.2-1)
[08:50] <lamont-away> stupid debhelper
[08:50] <Kamion> although Adam Conrad did the last upload
[08:50] <pitti> Diziet: which bug?
[08:50] <pitti> Kamion: of langpacks?
[08:50] <Diziet> 20763
[08:50] <Kamion> pitti: mozilla-firefox-locale-all
[08:50] <pitti> Kamion: ah, *these* :)
[08:51] <pitti> Diziet: just close it as dup of 21159
[08:51] <pitti> Diziet: or the other way round, I don't mind
[08:52] <pitti> Diziet: I'm 100% sure that locale-all worked with the firefox that was current at that time
[08:52] <pitti> Diziet: something broke it; I want to investigate this for days now, but I didn't get to it
[08:52] <Diziet> I really need to stop working today.  Can I leave it with you to either take this or reassign it to me or something and you can have my help tomorrow ?
[08:54] <pitti> Diziet: yes, I'll care for it
[08:55] <Diziet> Thanks.  Let me know if you want me to do anything.
[08:57] <pvanhoof> Hmm, SWCursor leaves "traces" of my mouse cursor when things on the screen happen and my cursor is at the same position
[08:57] <pvanhoof> but ... it's less irritating than a line underneat my cursor
[08:57] <pvanhoof> :)
[08:57] <tenco> hi
[08:58] <tenco> how is nvidia tls linking handled in dapper? same as in breezy (generating links on each startup)?
[09:01] <mjr> (so _that's_ why there's that module tmpfs... :]  )
[09:03] <xhaker> -rw-r----- 1 root slocate 1320337 2006-01-05 19:59 /var/lib/slocate/slocate.db
[09:04] <xhaker> slocate segfaults.. strace reveals it doesn't have access to the .db
[09:09] <tenco> mjr: do you know what are the gains of such a method?
[09:12] <mjr> tenco, no, not really
[09:23] <xhaker> subtle
[09:27] <mdz> Diziet: debzilla is the default assignee for all packages which wouldn't otherwise have one (bugzilla doesn't allow for it to be blank)
[09:29] <mdz> xhaker: you can't strace a setgid program for obvious reasons
[09:30] <mdz> it has been segfaulting for me too, fwiw
[09:31] <xhaker> mdz, so that is not the reason.. it sometimes outputs some results and then segfaults
[09:32] <mdz> xhaker: yes, it is.  that is the reason why it didn't have access to the database when you ran it under strace, and that is unrelated to the segfault
[09:34] <xhaker> mdz, if you can.. i need to talk with somebody about something.. a python script needs to use some commands with su permissions.. i've tryed seting +s but it doesn't really work
[09:35] <mdz> linux doesn't support setuid scripts; try #python for help
[09:35] <xhaker> so if i used C it would work?
[09:36] <mdz> yes
[09:36] <xhaker> hmm.. i think i'm going to code a daemon for gtkwifi then.. in C
[09:38] <Burgwork> mdz, are we seeding gnome-power-manager now?
[09:44] <mdz> Burgwork: now?  no, I'm not aware of anyone making seed changes at this moment
[09:46] <Burgwork> mdz, sorry to bug you. I realized I was being an idiot  about 3 secs after I hit enter
[09:46] <daniels> i'm making a seed change right now
[09:46] <Nafallo> hehe
[09:55] <zul> whoa..what happened to planet?
[09:55] <shaya> is there a web page anywhere on how NetworkManager is supposed to work w/ ubuntu?  there seems to be a disconnect b/w normal ifupdown usage and NetworkManager?
[09:55] <tseng> zul: jdub said it was moving to a new box
[09:56] <zul> ah ok...it looks weird though
[09:56] <daniels> zul: yeah, no css
[09:57] <daniels> pitti: you may not have noticed it going in, but all the drivers now provide xserver-xorg-driver or xserver-xorg-input, as appropriate
[09:57] <pitti> daniels: ah, cool
[09:58] <seb128> is "bzr push sftp://..." supposed to work with bzr 0.6.2 ?
[10:01] <seb128> lucas: that's for vuntz :p
[10:01] <lucas> seb128: ?
[10:02] <seb128> that's not for me, I just wanted to know if sftp:// is supposed to work
[10:02] <seb128> in fact it works with boxname:path
[10:04] <vuntz> I blame seb128 for everything!
[10:05] <delire> hi. i'm considering making a bounty proposal but would first like to find out whether the problem has already been forwarded/approached in another form.
[10:06] <seb128> Hi
[10:06] <lucas> delire: summary please :-)
[10:08] <Riddell> seb128: I've not got bzr push to work
[10:09] <seb128> you need bzrtools if you use dapper version probably
[10:09] <delire> rural areas typically rely on non-broadband connections. some households/farms/schools have one machine connected via dialup, with this connection shared across a lan. internet connection sharing is not trivial in linux as it stands (req. iptables etc). 'internet connection sharing' would be a killer app.
[10:09] <seb128> if you use jbailey's snapshot it works just fine
[10:10] <daniels> sigh.  i hate that the seeds take an hour to download.
[10:11] <janimo> delire, somebody us working on a spec called firewall
[10:11] <delire> i encountered this in a remote part of new zealand recently. as it evolved, we needed to retain a windows machine to share the PPP connection to the Ubuntu machines on the LAN. this was something of a defeat for a rural household moving over to Ubuntu.
[10:11] <daniels> lifeless: is 0.7pre supposed to be performant?
[10:11] <janimo> that should cover connection sharing
[10:11] <delire> janimo ahah, interesting.
[10:11] <dholbach> Have a nice evening - I'm off.
[10:11] <delire> ciao
[10:11] <janimo> it's low prio for dapper but there is hope
[10:11] <janimo> he's carstenh you may want to get in touch with him
[10:12] <janimo> I am interested in this as well
[10:12] <delire> janimo Ubuntu is tricky for networks on the end of a dialup connection as it stands i feel. 
[10:12] <janimo> sadly yes
[10:12] <delire> .. and this is the case for rural areas housing millions of people worldwide.
[10:12] <janimo> am being reminded by frieds on dialup who I gave ubuntu and went back to win out of frustration :)
[10:12] <janimo> s/:)/:(/
[10:13] <delire> janimo precisely..
[10:13] <janimo> there's a dial up spec also for a while but receives no love
[10:13] <daniels> there's been a dialup spec since specs existed, and dialup was often mentioned in the warty cycle, even
[10:13] <delire> well great to know this is on the way. as if support for non-serial-port modems wasn't enough of a problem..
[10:14] <janimo> do you want to help do it if I understand correctly?
[10:14] <daniels> it really needs someone with some amount of time to really take it and make it work
[10:14] <daniels> unfortunately the itch factor is low -- i went to use a modem the other day when my DSL didn't exist, and discovered I didn't own one, outside of the seemingly non-functional one in my laptop.  i suspect this is not abnormal.
[10:14] <delire> daniels alot of folk would like to run Ubuntu in rural areas, but as it stands, Ubuntu is ironically better suited to the financially well off, those that can afford a DSL connection.
[10:14] <janimo> I think the issue of softmodems is one too, not?
[10:15] <delire> janimo truly. this is a big problem.
[10:15] <daniels> delire: this is fully understood, it's just a matter of time, resources and motivation.  it needs someone with all three to step up and own the spec.
[10:15] <HrdwrBoB> yes, none of the developed, none of the tested use a dialup connection
[10:15] <lucas> my grandmother uses ubuntu on a RTC modem
[10:15] <lucas> s/on/with/
[10:15] <HrdwrBoB> *developers
[10:15] <lucas> she doesn't encounter problems
[10:15] <janimo> delire you mentioned a bounty?
[10:16] <delire> janimo: yes, considering it.
[10:16] <lucas> well, when she'll start understanding copy/paste better, I might try to learn her how to code :)
[10:16] <delire> lucas: hehe
[10:16] <janimo> as in working for a bounty or offering one? :)
[10:17] <delire> janimo possibly offering one. i will look into this 'firewall' script with connection-sharing functionality you mentioned. who did you say is responsible?
[10:17] <janimo> carstenh
[10:17] <janimo> look it up on launchpad
[10:17] <delire> ok, cheers
[10:17] <delire> right
[10:17] <lifeless> daniels: not for network efficiency, no
[10:17] <janimo> https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+spec/firewall
[10:18] <delire> janimo thanks :)
[10:18] <janimo> I talked to him a few days ago and he said he should have something by the end of this week
[10:19] <janimo> is there a way to search for specs on LP besides loading up the page with all 260 of them and searching in that page?
[10:20] <daniels> lifeless: i see
[10:21] <lifeless> daniels: just keep a copy of them and pull when you need to make more changes
[10:21] <lifeless> that will be faster than a old start
[10:21] <daniels> well, I had the seeds downloaded, and made a change
[10:21] <daniels> but then the archive drifted, so I tried to pull, but after twenty minutes it smacked me down and told me to merge, and then merge failed very non-specifically
[10:21] <daniels> so I just gave up and tried again
[10:22] <delire> thanks for your help all. i'm going to tail this development. i think something along the lines of an 'Internet Connection Sharing' app for Ubuntu would really open it up to rural/underprivileged demographics, and even geographically remote SME's/SOHO's.
[10:23] <daniels> there's no arguments there, it just needs to actually get done
[10:23] <lifeless> daniels: ok
[10:23] <delire> have a good night.
[10:23] <janimo> delire, as for dialup go to wiki.ubuntu.com and type dialup in the search box
[10:23] <lifeless> daniels: for reference, if you make a change and I make a change, one of us *has* to merge the other and commit before you can pull again.
[10:23] <janimo> night
[10:25] <Burgwork> jdub, css on planet appears to be borked
[10:25] <daniels> lifeless: right.  but merge just completely bombed and left me with a tree that was ostensibly up to date, but the delta from my tree to upstream was exactly as it was before I ran merge
[10:26] <lifeless> daniels: argh. If that happens again, please take a tarball of that tree for me to examine
[10:26] <daniels> lifeless: 'kay
[10:26] <lifeless> daniels: thanks!
[10:27] <daniels> i'm aware it's probably completely useless, but anyway:
[10:27] <daniels> daniels@ephemera:~/canonical/seeds/dapper% bzr merge sftp://chinstrap.ubuntu.com/home/warthogs/archives/seeds.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/seeds/dapper
[10:27] <daniels> bzr: ERROR: Channel request for unknown channel 1
[10:27] <daniels> 0 conflicts encountered.
[10:27] <daniels> do I need to run commit and then merge, maybe?
[10:28] <xhaker> suid doesn't work in python scripts would it be reasonable to make a C app just to launch the script with su permissions?
[10:32] <darte> is there any repository-sync going on now?
[10:35] <lifeless> daniels: it merged fine, just commit
[10:35] <lifeless> that error is noise and I think eliminated these days
[10:36] <daniels> lifeless: bzr diff output was the delta between upstream at my last pull and upstream now
[10:36] <daniels> so I would've reverted the entire changeset bar my one-liner
[10:36] <lifeless> so 'bzr diff' was saying 'hey, you have all the changes from upstream' 
[10:38] <daniels> i see
[10:40] <pitti> seb128: it depends on whether you have bzrtools installed or not
[10:41] <CarlFK> Kamion: setup - hda1 as /, hdb1 as / - OK... mkfs whacks both, then setup says "dupe mountpoints.. no good.. go fix" - shouldn't that happen before the mkfs?
[10:42] <seb128> pitti: yeah, we figured since, thanks :)
[10:45] <rw> I installed ubuntu 5.10 in a dell d510 notebook with this sata chipset, 0000:00:1f.2 IDE interface: Intel Corp. 82801FBM (ICH6M) SATA Controller (rev 03). It is featuring a weird noise that seems to come from the hard disk. It came with windows and I haven't noted this noise. Does anyone imagine what might be going on and what solutions I may take? I was thinking maybe about the hd frequency. Ideas?
[10:47] <elmo> Kamion: around?
[10:49] <Burgwork> rw, please file a bug. This is not a support channel
[10:53] <robertj> is the blackness around the notification window in dapper a known issue?
[10:55] <mvo> robertj: do you run composition externsion without a composition manager maybe?
[10:55] <robertj> that's probably it
[10:58] <mvo> just start xcompmgr and enjoy nicely shaped windows
[10:59] <robertj> mvo: hehe, and very laggy window resizing
[10:59] <mvo> robertj: :) what card do you have? I found that using "exa" to accelerate works very well on my ati
[11:00] <daniels> exa + composite + xcompmgr -a, makes your system stupid fast
[11:00] <daniels> robertj: use xcompmgr -a, not xcompmgr
[11:00] <robertj> intel integrated garbage
[11:00] <Treenaks> oh speaking of ati :0
[11:00] <Treenaks> daniels: I'm going to try the ati driver on my crack ATI card
[11:02] <daniels> the firegl?
[11:03] <robertj> I think exa was putting me into a deathspin a few weeks ago
[11:03] <darte> sorry ppl .. i have
[11:03] <darte> a problem with ubuntu-desktop ..
[11:04] <darte> (dapper) ive got a server install .. and it doesnt let me install it.
[11:05] <Treenaks> daniels: and it's still broken :) but in another interesting way
[11:06] <kent> what is exa?
[11:06] <Treenaks> daniels: It now gives me a black screen (and tells me it found a CRT as the default display, instead of my laptop LCD)
[11:06] <Treenaks> daniels: if I set Option MonitorLayout "LVDS", I get the old breakage back
[11:07] <robertj> wait nevermind
[11:07] <robertj> it's a ProSavage8
[11:09] <daniels> Treenaks: eep
[11:09] <daniels> kent: new acceleration architecture
[11:09] <Treenaks> daniels: want the log? :)
[11:09] <daniels> Treenaks: sure
[11:11] <kent> daniels, nothing that would work on an old tnt2? :) Besides the GPU my computer is very fast.  But composite made my computer slow last time i tried.. 
[11:12] <jdahlin> how do I find out if my card supports exa?
[11:12] <Treenaks> daniels: see PM for links
[11:12] <robertj> visit the ubuntu harw..err nevermind ;)
[11:12] <daniels> kent: don't use normal xcompmgr
[11:12] <daniels> jdahlin: 'it doesn't'
[11:13] <kent> daniels, you meen use it with xcompmgr -a like you said above?
[11:13] <daniels> jdahlin: only works out of the box for radeons at the moment.  at http://xorg.freedesktop.org/wiki/ExaStatus you can find patches for i810, nv, savage, tdfx, etc
[11:13] <daniels> kent: yeah
[11:13] <kent> will try for the fun of it. thanks.
[11:14] <jdahlin> daniels: that page says sis is supported though
[11:14] <daniels> jdahlin: oh yeah, sis too, my bad
[11:14] <HiddenWolf> what is going on with p.u.c?
[11:14] <Treenaks> HiddenWolf: Pure, Authentic Breakage
[11:15] <HiddenWolf> Treenaks, sweet. :)
[11:21] <robertj> hrmm. psychadelic
[11:40] <shaya> anyone seen adam conrad?
[11:42] <Burgwork> shawarma, he is infinity, who is not here  right now
[11:54] <Kamion> CarlFK: please file a bug with full details rather than abbreviated ones; component "partman-target"
[11:54] <Kamion> elmo: yes?
[12:01] <kent> daniels, just out of curiosity.  When using xcompmgr -a   I get no eyecandy at all. Whats the use of that?  
[12:02] <CarlFK> Kamion: will do.  just making sure it was worth the post and later reading