[02:58] <Kamion> irssi is going insane on me; it has stopped autocreating new windows on /join
[02:58] <mdz> fabbione: ping
[02:58] <mdz> mvo: ping
[02:58] <Kamion> I was trying not to get channels interleaved over each other, 1995-stylee
[02:58] <mdz> doko: ping
[02:58] <mdz> Riddell: ping
[02:58] <mvo> hello mdz
[02:58] <ogra_ibook> :)
[02:59] <Mithrandir> Kamion: is autocreate_windows on?
[02:59] <jbailey> mdz: ping
[02:59] <jbailey> (preemptive)
[02:59] <jbailey> =)
[02:59] <mdz> iwj: ping
[02:59] <Mithrandir> mdz: pong.
[02:59] <Mithrandir> (preemptive)
[02:59] <mdz> dholbach: ping
[02:59] <dholbach> mdz: pong
[02:59] <Kyral> oh...I hope you guys don't mind me sitting in on the Meeting
[02:59] <doko> pong
[02:59] <HiddenWolf> Kyral, public meeting. :)
[02:59] <mdz> it's public, but the agenda is usually very tight so please don't interrupt
[03:00] <Kyral> I won't
[03:00] <ogra_ibook> Kyral, sure we do, thats why we meet in such a secret place ;)
[03:00] <mdz> we seem to still be missing a few people
[03:00] <Kyral> I'll just idle :D
[03:00] <fabbione> mdz: pong
[03:00] <HiddenWolf> specially since all the european-based devels want to go to bed fast. :)
[03:00] <mdz> fabbione: have you seen BenC?
[03:00] <Riddell> hi all
[03:00] <Mithrandir> mdz: connection reset by peer ~20 minutes ago, apparently.
[03:01] <fabbione> mdz: yes he is online.. i was speaking to him 10 minutes ago, but he is having net problems
[03:01] <fabbione> there...
[03:01] <BenC> shoot my connection, please
[03:01] <mdz> missing iwj, dholbach and daniels I think
[03:01] <seb128> dholbach is around
[03:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: 02:59 < dholbach> mdz: pong
[03:02] <dholbach> mdz: pong :)
[03:02] <Mithrandir> mdz: he ponged about two seconds after you pinged
[03:02] <mdz> indeed
[03:02] <Mithrandir> also, iwj's irc client is here, at least.
[03:02] <iwj> Yes, I'm here.
[03:03] <mdz> daniels SMSed with connectivity problems
[03:03] <mdz> infinity and janew are on leave
[03:03] <mdz> so let's get started
[03:04] <mdz> BenC: shoot
[03:04] <BenC> testing-server-hardware: NOT STARTED
[03:04] <BenC> preventing-hardware-support-regressions: Automated build working. Designed as a push trigger system (slightly contrary to original design spec). Hopefully ronne will be stable enough to start using as a build host.
[03:04] <BenC> ubuntu-server-kernel: STALLED: amd64 and i386 are done. I'm contemplating on whether doing other architectures is even wanted right now.
[03:04] <BenC> milestone: 2.6.15 is final and in dapper
[03:05] <mdz> BenC: by testing-server-hardware, do you mean the certification spec by that name, or the actual community testing program which was intended?
[03:05] <BenC> spec
[03:05] <mdz> ok, please swap them then
[03:05] <BenC> it's assigned to me, but really, most of the work is on malcom to get the ball rolling
[03:05] <mdz> exactly
[03:05] <BenC> ok
[03:05] <mdz> meanwhile, the community testing program (which is what that spec should have become) should be able to be started immediately
[03:05] <BenC> oh, and ubuntu-server-kernel still needs to be approved
[03:05] <mdz> who's the approver?
[03:06] <jbailey> mdz: Please do me last, my machine just puked, need a couple minutes to get reconnected.
[03:06] <BenC> mdz: fabio :)
[03:06] <BenC> fabbione: approve me damnit
[03:06] <fabbione> BenC: ok, will do 
[03:06] <mdz> a bit late now that it's been implemented; hope it's OK ;-)
[03:06] <fabbione> BenC: i didn't notice it was ready for approval
[03:06] <BenC> thanks
[03:06] <fabbione> mdz: well yeah :)
[03:06] <Kamion> excuse me, I just typed an unwise thing into my IRC client
[03:06] <BenC> hehe
[03:07] <mdz> BenC: regarding powerpc, I'm not fussed either way
[03:07] <Kamion> sorry, context?
[03:07] <fabbione> BenC: i think we still wants them. elmo gave me some ideas about -server kernels today (together with other people)
[03:07] <BenC> ppc64 is the only thing worth -server, but it's not really terrible in it's current state
[03:07] <fabbione> BenC: but we can take it outside
[03:07] <mdz> BenC: as part of preventing-hardware-support-regressions, please draft a mail for -announce to explain that we really, really need the community to test our milestones for hardware regressions
[03:08] <mdz> Kamion: context = ubuntu-server-kernel
[03:08] <Kamion> thanks
[03:08] <mdz> daniels is on leave
[03:08] <mdz> dholbach: next
[03:08] <dholbach> inclusion-of-docs: did another update, mdke did a call for proofreaders / doc-testers
[03:08] <dholbach> this week (done): gnome 2.13.4, bug triage
[03:08] <dholbach> this week (to do): some missing gnome uploads, catching up on bug triage
[03:08] <dholbach> next week: more bug triage, do a bug day, get an overview over universe (merges, new packages), merges, make check list for uvf
[03:08] <mdz> dholbach: if the inclusion-of-docs process is in place and working, we can consider it completed
[03:09] <dholbach> mdz: ok, i'll change the spec data then
[03:09] <mdz> if there is no more work to be done on it apart from continuing to do updates
[03:09] <dholbach> mdz, Kamion: did the ubuntu-docs update go to breezy yet?
[03:09] <dholbach> breezy-updates I mean
[03:09] <mdz> I'm behind on mail
[03:09] <ogra_ibook> dholbach, we're waiting for infinity
[03:09] <Kamion> dholbach: when I last had time to check, the edubuntu-artwork interaction wasn't sorted out yet
[03:10] <dholbach> ogra_ibook: i think not for breezy
[03:10] <dholbach> oh alright
[03:10] <ogra_ibook> dholbach, he wanted to review the alternatives change we need
[03:10] <dholbach> ok, i'll talk to infinity then
[03:10] <mdz> dholbach: how is test-plans going?
[03:10] <ogra_ibook> Kamion, it is sorted, he just needs to approve the patches
[03:10] <mdz> that's a high priority goal
[03:11] <dholbach> mdz: i did some changes to it and talked to the media team about more tests, now we need some community buzz around it
[03:11] <dholbach> mdz: i'll put more work into it
[03:11] <mdz> dholbach: what remains to be done in order to meet the requirements of the spec?
[03:11] <mdz> dholbach: I suggest having a talk with BenC regarding test-plans
[03:11] <mdz> and preventing-hardware-support-regressions
[03:11] <mdz> we should have a hardware support test plan component if we don't already
[03:12] <dholbach> mdz: we had a conversation on email about that already - but we will continue on that
[03:12] <mdz> ok, thanks
[03:12] <mdz> doko: next
[03:12] <doko> this week:
[03:12] <doko> - openoffice.org: integrating martink's xmlsearch patch, prepackaged ooo2-helpcontent can be dropped, fighting with build problems only seen on the buildd's (l10n), prepare packages for breezy-updates (support work), fighting gij problems on powerpc, currently work around it.
[03:12] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: scan bugzilla for open reports, forward/close, snyc/merge packages with gcc-4.0 fixes
[03:12] <doko> - python-roadmap: delayed again for next week
[03:12] <doko> next week:
[03:12] <doko> - openoffice.org: merge with unstable, update the current milestone, update dictionaries
[03:12] <doko> - python-roadmap: python-central update
[03:12] <doko> - syncs/merges which need to be done before UVF.
[03:12] <doko> status:
[03:12] <doko> - toolchain-roadmap: amd64-biarch (still blocked), should be ready this week
[03:12] <doko> - toolchain-dapper+1: blocked by preparation of wanna-build and buildd infrastructure
[03:12] <doko> - openoffice-gnome: not started, martink will work on testsuite packaging and gnome integration testing (i.e. file selector in January)
[03:12] <doko> - openoffice-help: implemented
[03:12] <doko> - openoffice-spellchecking: not started
[03:12] <doko> - native-java-gcj: infrastructure is ready, packaging of -gcj binary packages not started
[03:12] <doko> - java-roadmap: mostly done, pending are eclipse updates and the native-java-gcj support
[03:13] <mdz> doko: which syncs/merges are on your list for before UVF?
[03:14] <doko> mdz: I was going through current upstream version from distrowatch, where we are behind major versions
[03:14] <mdz> I talked to jbailey about biarch, and he hoped to have it finished by now or soon after the meeting
[03:15] <doko> i.e. Bittorrent, vnc, and some other. plus various python related packages, which should be current upstream
[03:15] <mdz> doko: I'm interested to hear what you found in your upstream version comparison; please send me an email on it
[03:15] <doko> yes, biarch should not be a problem
[03:15] <mdz> jbailey: can you commit to having it ready by the end of this week?
[03:15] <doko> mdz: ok, tomorrow
[03:16] <mdz> jbailey may still be fixing his machine...
[03:16] <mdz> doko: thanks
[03:16] <jbailey> mdz: Assuming I get gdb and an editor that's not nano on the new porting box fairly earlyish tomorrow, yes.
[03:16] <jbailey> (madly retyping my status update, sorry)
[03:16] <mdz> jbailey: do you have an RT ticket open already?
[03:16] <jbailey> Yup
[03:16] <mdz> ok
[03:16] <mdz> fabbione: next
[03:16] <fabbione> * server-candy: system-integrity-check (ex md5client) has been partially redesigned and rewritten. There is an outstanding performance issue that we are working on (client side). Deploy is blocked on admins (rt: #723). Commu
[03:16] <fabbione> nity is growning fast with positive response and picking up tasks from the specs.
[03:16] <fabbione> * ubuntu-cluster: full upgrades of currently supported suites. I doubt we will manage to get more in dapper as n
[03:16] <fabbione> ew features. Need to test all the new upstream code that landed in the last 2 days.
[03:16] <fabbione> * probe-for-root-filesystem: no progress this week.
[03:17] <fabbione> * boot-from-usb: blocked by probe-for-root-filesystem.
[03:17] <fabbione> * merges: zlib - still pending libc6-i386-dev, one merge (partman-auto-lvm) is pending but nothing scary or urgent.
[03:17] <fabbione> * last week: system-integrity-check and server-candy work, ubuntu-cluster, kernel regression (#20771).
[03:17] <fabbione> * next week: change the default kernel install on -server with Kamion, servercandy full speed, possibly start on probe-for-root-filesystem.
[03:17] <fabbione> (the latter is modulo Kamion availability to hack on switching the kernel)
[03:17] <Kamion> I can walk you through most of it in about ten minutes
[03:17] <mdz> fabbione: anytime you are blocked on server-candy, please start on boot-from-usb/probe-for-root-filesystem.  those are relatively important
[03:18] <Kamion> for that matter I can probably *do* it in about ten minutes, but no promises :-)
[03:18] <fabbione> mdz: i am rarely blocked on server-candy as real work. I am blocked from uploading a final package in the archive
[03:18] <mdz> fabbione: libc6-i386-dev is part of the same biarch work that jbailey is working on?
[03:18] <fabbione> Kamion: ok :)
[03:18] <fabbione> mdz: yes afaik
[03:18] <jbailey> mdz: Yes, that and libc6-i386
[03:19] <mdz> fabbione: boot-from-usb should make it into a milestone soon so that it can be tested
[03:19] <mdz> sometime before the sprint definitely
[03:19] <fabbione> mdz: it's a medium priority spec. server-candy is sucking most of my time
[03:19] <fabbione> mdz:  i will try to prioritize it
[03:20] <mdz> fabbione: it should take a lot less time; if you can squeeze it in, then it would be best to get it done early
[03:20] <mdz> thanks
[03:20] <mdz> infinity is on leave
[03:20] <mdz> iwj: next
[03:20] <iwj> AutomatedTesting:  No change since last report.  I will resume work on this next week.  Apparently the IBM LTC are interested in this too and there's going to be a call (organised by Malcom Yates I think).
[03:20] <iwj> Firefox maintenance:  Release today to fix packaging problems; more work needed and I hope to have another release on Friday.  BreezyFirefoxStartPageTranslation didn't happen and Matthew East and I haven't quite settled on the scheme for Dapper.  I'm trying not to let ff consume more than 50% of me but it's tough.
[03:20] <iwj> DefaultApplicationsFirefox: no change since last report.  Firefox needs more other work too - see above.
[03:20] <iwj> ThinClientLocalDevices: It has disappeared from my specs table in launchpad.  What has happened ?  Has it been cancelled ?  Surely I should have got some kind of notification ?
[03:20] <iwj> Email backlog: considerable, still.
[03:20] <iwj> DeveloperDocumentation: Not started, not blocked.
[03:21] <mdz> iwj: let's chat about firefox strategy later on today
[03:21] <iwj> You mean after the meeting ?
[03:21] <mdz> yes, and after you've slept, assuming you plan to
[03:22] <iwj> I was going to get 8 hours if I could ...
[03:22] <mdz> right, so later today when you're awake
[03:22] <iwj> Right.
[03:22] <mdz> you mentioned last week that you were waiting for something from robert collins?  did you get it?
[03:22] <iwj> No; but it wasn't critical.
[03:23] <iwj> It's starting to be past the point where it'd be useful and I don't want to block on it.  He had some ideas about the test list spec file.
[03:23] <mdz> thin client local devices seems unlikely to make it for dapper
[03:23] <ogra_ibook> yup
[03:23] <mdz> I think it needs more discussion and design work
[03:23] <iwj> Right.  Shouldn't lp have sent me a mail ?
[03:23] <iwj> Certainly, yes.
[03:23] <mdz> I don't think the spec tracker sends email for anything yet
[03:23] <iwj> Oh.
[03:24] <mdz> it's a work in progress, feel free to hit #launchpad with questions
[03:24] <iwj> Right.
[03:24] <iwj> Then I think whoever canned it for dapper (good decision) should have told me ?
[03:24] <mdz> ok, thanks
[03:24] <mdz> jbailey asked to be bumped to the end
[03:24] <jbailey> mdz: I'm okay now
[03:24] <jbailey> ToolchainRoadmap: Biarch packages in progress (didn't want NEW handling over the winter break).  Updated to 2.3.6.  Some more Debian patches to take in, but all the packaging updates are done.
[03:24] <jbailey> ToolchainRoadmapNg: Upstream glibc announced ABI freeze date for glibc-2.4 (January 9th), so we will do glibc 2.4 for Dapper +1.  Posted question about dropping pre-i686 to ubuntu-devel, no negative feedback.  Haven't sync'd this with doko yet, but hopefully archive rebuild tests can proceed with this in mind.
[03:24] <jbailey> Merges: klibc - definetly following "release early, release often".  Looks like the 1.1.15 release is finally good enough to boot all arches, so UVF is smelling good.
[03:24] <jbailey> glibc - More debian patches to bring in.
[03:24] <mdz> ok then
[03:25] <mdz> jbailey: I haven't had a chance to review your mail about pre-i686 in depth yet, will do so soon
[03:25] <jbailey> mdz: Thanks.
[03:26] <mdz> it's a proposal for dapper+1 presumably, so no rush?
[03:26] <jbailey> Right, but it's invasive enough it would be nice to do tests by mid-feb
[03:26] <doko> no rush is relative ...
[03:26] <ogra_ibook> heh
[03:26] <mdz> e.g., we can talk about it in London in a few weeks
[03:26] <jbailey> Yup.
[03:26] <mdz> ok, thanks
[03:26] <mdz> Kamion: next
[03:26] <Kamion> ubuntu-express-base-system: Tollef's split out the keymapper widget from cdebconf. I have username/password configuration working by calling code from user-setup, which is very encouraging and I think validates my basic approach.
[03:27] <Kamion> ubuntu-express: Not a lot else of note, although I have got a fair bit more infrastructure nailed down as a result of the above. Main short-term goal is to polish up the guts to the point where others can help.
[03:27] <Kamion> misc: Single-stage installer work merged from Debian, killing base-config and fixing lots of bugs; testing appreciated. Only two days' work so far this week due to holidays.
[03:27] <Kamion> blocked: Need a way to get the unmodified file system on the live CD in order to implement ubuntu-express-copy-filesystem. Tollef is working on this.
[03:27] <Kamion> next-week: Start back in on ue-partitioning-tool; I have the infrastructure now to make that roughly sensible. gfxboot-theme-ubuntu bug fixes and maybe an enhancement or two needed for cd-bootloader.
[03:27] <mdz> we covered the salient bits on the phone today, I think
[03:27] <Kamion> yeah, I think so
[03:28] <mdz> thanks
[03:28] <mdz> Keybuk: next
[03:28] <Keybuk> udev-roadmap: Implemented
[03:28] <Keybuk> hardware-detection: Implemented (informational)
[03:28] <Keybuk> hardware-activation: Implemented
[03:28] <Keybuk> streamlined-boot: Uploads in progress, doing merges as I do the uploads.
[03:28] <Keybuk> network-magic: Going to test madwifi-ng, which may unblock network-manager.  netbase and ifupdown modifications planned.  have a plan for using udev's native "ifrename" support, and reliably swapping interface names.
[03:28] <Keybuk> this week: finish streamlined-boot, do ifupdown work
[03:28] <mdz> Keybuk: is there a followup to be done regarding the urgent-reboot-notification bit?
[03:28] <mdz> (from udev-roadmap)
[03:28] <Keybuk> I'm not sure, that was seperated into another spec that mpt was working on
[03:29] <Keybuk> udev does the right "reboot required" thing for the current lightbulb
[03:29] <mdz> I'm assuming it's not a critical piece of udev-roadmap, since it's set to implemented
[03:29] <Keybuk> the mpt spec was to make that a little more obvious I think
[03:29] <Keybuk> right
[03:29] <mdz> ok
[03:29] <mdz> streamlined-boot is looking mostly reasonable, but please, pretty please, fix that bug which broke shutdown
[03:29] <Keybuk> yup, have it fixed already, will upload tomorrow morning along with the "mount /dev/pts again" fix
[03:30] <mdz> ok
[03:30] <mdz> thanks
[03:30] <mdz> are krstic or lathiat here?
[03:30] <mdz> no
[03:30] <mdz> Mithrandir: next
[03:30] <Mithrandir> ooo-amd64: no progress
[03:30] <Mithrandir> live-cd-performance: incremental progress seen, going to look at squashfs some more for more speedups, as well as doing more readahead.  Well on track
[03:30] <Mithrandir> one-true-path: no progress
[03:30] <Mithrandir> simplified-livecd: mostly there, keyboard selection now works, locales works, SCSI cdroms work, 
[03:30] <Mithrandir> media-integrity-check: almost there, was hanging on usplash bugs, I think I have fixed them now.  If so, implemented
[03:31] <Mithrandir> network-authentication: no progress
[03:31] <Mithrandir> livecd-unionfs: implemented, but the powerpc kernel has problems with unionfs
[03:31] <Mithrandir> blocked on: some live cd infrastructure stuff, like getting squashfs support in, generally people getting back from vacation.
[03:31] <mdz> Mithrandir,Kamion: is it feasible to use different overlay systems (unionfs, cloop) on different architectures for the sake of powerpc?
[03:32] <Mithrandir> already implemented
[03:32] <mdz> right, it's implemented in casper, but is it reasonable to actually do this for the final release?
[03:32] <Mithrandir> it loses a fair chunk of space on the powerpc cd
[03:32] <mdz> at the least it would mean that we wouldn't be able to take much advantage of the space savings by adding software
[03:32] <Kamion> we could take advantage of it with language packs on x86 still
[03:32] <mdz> unless we did it only on i386 and amd64
[03:33] <Kamion> has anyone got stuck into the unionfs bugs at all? I know BenC has a powerpc now ...
[03:33] <mdz> is powerpc still pressed for space in current dapper?
[03:33] <ogra_ibook> yup
[03:33] <daniels> hi, sorry I'm late.
[03:33] <Mithrandir> do we have any kind of estimate how much effort it would be to fix the unionfs bugs?
[03:33] <mdz> 642M it looks like
[03:33] <mdz> daniels: got your SMS
[03:33] <dholbach> daniels! :)
[03:33] <mdz> Mithrandir: I certainly don't
[03:34] <mdz> the unionfs bugs I have gotten friendly with have been a lot of work to track down
[03:34] <Mithrandir> hmm, that sounds bad.
[03:34] <mdz> Mithrandir: are they straightforward reproducible bugs, or weird bugs?
[03:34] <Kamion> Mithrandir: keyboard selection> we still need the bootloader side of that, and maybe simplified command line argument aliases for the sake of powerpc
[03:34] <Kamion> mdz: oopsen
[03:34] <Kamion> followed by weird bugs
[03:34] <Mithrandir> mdz: ENOPOWERPC, so ask colin?
[03:35] <Kamion> but reproducible, the desktop goes insane
[03:35] <Kamion> at least on my box, but I think somebody else mentioned similar issues
[03:35] <mdz> Mithrandir: speaking of oopsen, is there a bug filed for that non-fatal oops during boot on the live cd?
[03:35] <Mithrandir> Kamion: yes, but I'm guessing based on locale, which is somewhat-reasonable.
[03:35] <Mithrandir> mdz: I haven't filed one, but I asked benc about it, he didn't have any offhand ideas, at least.  Might be in an awkward spot to debug.
[03:36] <mdz> please get it into bugzilla for tracking
[03:36] <Mithrandir> ok
[03:36] <Mithrandir> I'll see if I can actually _capture_ the oops as well
[03:36] <mdz> Mithrandir: does network-authentication look like something we can actually achieve, or no?
[03:36] <fabbione> Mithrandir: benc got ppc last week. 
[03:36] <mdz> it's getting late in the cycle to start a new 30+ developer-day project
[03:37] <mdz> it has an approved spec, but iirc it's not entirely clear what we should do there
[03:37] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm getting doubtful, especially if we want to try to get multiarch and such started before dapper's out.
[03:37] <dholbach> mdz: you meant  https://launchpad.net/distros/ubuntu/+source/linux-source-2.6.15/+bug/5838 ?
[03:37] <mdz> dholbach: yes, that looks like the same bug
[03:38] <mdz> on a related note, the bugzilla->malone migration is tentatively scheduled for next week
[03:38] <mdz> look for an announcement soon with details and instructions
[03:38] <jbailey> mdz: Got a related note on Soyuz, too?
[03:38] <dholbach> mdz: do you know if we will have the default-assignees / qa-contacts?
[03:38] <Mithrandir> mdz: we should talk about if we should go for squashfs or not, at some point.
[03:38] <pitti> mdz: I already wondered, wasn't it planned for right before xmas?
[03:39] <Kamion> dholbach: the bug contacts stuff is in as I understand it, yes
[03:39] <mdz> pitti: there were some delays, and then holidays pushed everything forward
[03:39] <Mithrandir> mdz: since currently, the speed optimisations are mostly me trying different things, some of which have infrastructural changes (such as squashfs)
[03:39] <seb128> if it's in atm it doesn't work
[03:39] <Kamion> see https://wiki.launchpad.canonical.com/BugzillaImportProcess for the planned procedure
[03:39] <dholbach> Kamion: then I'll have to figure out how it works. :)
[03:39] <mdz> soyuz rollout is scheduled for the week of January 23rd, directly before the sprint
[03:39] <dholbach> pitti: late christmas present
[03:39] <mdz> I will be in London that week assisting the Launchpad team with the rollout
[03:39] <Kamion> seb128: the actual contact data hasn't been imported yet; it'll be imported right before the rollout
[03:39] <mdz> dholbach: we will have default contacts
[03:39] <Kamion> but the code is, I'm told, landed
[03:39] <dholbach> mdz: cool.
[03:39] <seb128> would be nice to get the code running for some time before
[03:40] <seb128> so we know if it works fine
[03:40] <mdz> seb128: the bugzilla default assignees will be imported very soon, I think in the next couple of days
[03:40] <Kamion> to do that we'd have to agree to freeze component maintainer data in bugzilla
[03:40] <mdz> there's a thread on the launchpad list about the migration
[03:40] <mdz> Kamion: it's pretty stable really; there will be an announcement when we should stop touching it
[03:41] <dholbach> seb128: we should split up some packages for that and make sure we get the bugs on desktop-bugs@ too
[03:41] <seb128> yep
[03:41] <mdz> you'll be able to add an arbitrary number of bug contacts for a package
[03:41] <mdz> rather than just an assignee and a QA contact as in bugzilla
[03:41] <mdz> so it should be easier to involve teams and interested individuals
[03:41] <Kamion> at the moment, you can only add yourself as a contact; we can't do it for you, the way we've been doing in bugzilla
[03:41] <Kamion> kind of swings and roundabouts there
[03:41] <mdz> right, s/you/launchpad admins/ for now
[03:41] <mdz> but I'm a launchpad admin
[03:42] <mdz> so feel free to route those requests through me
[03:42] <Keybuk> hmm, what about when you punt a bug across to a different package
[03:42] <Kamion> shall we defer more about this to other business at the end of the meeting, just to make sure we get through everyone?
[03:42] <mdz> Mithrandir: if we're going to do squashfs on i386/amd64, we should go ahead and do it straight away
[03:42] <Keybuk> I do that maybe 5-10 times a day with kernel or pmount bugs
[03:42] <Keybuk> which obviously need contact changes
[03:42] <mdz> to get as much testing as possible
[03:43] <Mithrandir> mdz: I'm going to look at it with infinity once he gets back
[03:43] <mdz> I think it's definitely worth a try; we should be able to switch back painlessly if necessary
[03:43] <Kamion> it may require fairly trivial cdimage changes; let me know
[03:43] <dholbach> mdz: I pinged Lathiat - he seems to be there.
[03:44] <mdz> Keybuk: talk to bradb/launchpad@lists about it; I'm not sure offhand how the semantics work currently
[03:44] <Mithrandir> and jbailey just uploaded a klibc-utils with a squashfs-working fstype, so it should be good.
[03:44] <mdz> cool
[03:44] <mdz> thanks, Mithrandir
[03:44] <mdz> mvo: next
[03:44] <mvo> Did:
[03:44] <mvo> - libnotify 0.3.0 upload/transition (fixed bugs in the daemon, did the api changes on the dependencies, updated seeds) [DapperDesktopPlan] 
[03:44] <mvo> - backported gdebi and updated unattended-upgrades to breezy and ask for testing in ubuntuforums.org [AutomaticUpdates] 
[03:44] <mvo> - improved synaptics support for people with slow internet connection [NonBroadbandUsers] 
[03:44] <mvo> - bugfixes/improvments in gnome-app-install and gdebi [ThirdPartyPackages]  
[03:44] <mvo> Next week:
[03:44] <mvo> - work on the ThirdPartyPackages spec (add key support to the channels)
[03:44] <mvo> - work on the AutomaticUpgrades
[03:44] <mvo> Open merges:
[03:44] <mvo> - synaptic, aptitude 
[03:44] <mdz> mvo: we still need to talk about the upgrade tool.  later today?
[03:44] <Lathiat> bingles
[03:45] <mvo> mdz: yes, when I had some sleep please :)
[03:46] <mdz> mvo: is release-upgrades blocked on discussion with me?
[03:46] <mvo> no
[03:46] <mdz> it wasn't clear whether your comment at the last meeting referred to automatic-upgrades or release-upgrades
[03:46] <mdz> release-upgrades is your highest priority assignment right now
[03:47] <mvo> I was asking if it would be worth backporting the automatic-upgrades stuff to breezy to get testing
[03:47] <mdz> so please be sure to work on it ahead of AutomaticUpgrades
[03:47] <mvo> right
[03:47] <mdz> mvo: sure, get it into -backports
[03:47] <mvo> thanks
[03:47] <mdz> and send a call for testing to an appropriate list
[03:47] <mvo> I'll be on dist-upgrades again 
[03:47] <mdz> ok, thanks
[03:48] <mdz> Lathiat: want to give us a quick update on zeroconf_?
[03:48] <mvo> I send a request on ubuntuforums (after speaking with the backports team about a appropriate place)
[03:49] <mdz> Lathiat: is this something we're going to be able to do or not?
[03:49] <Lathiat> Well avahi is now approved for main
[03:49] <Riddell> Lathiat: cool
[03:49] <Lathiat> default installation of avahi-daemon is not possible at this time, but libavahi-client can be installed without avahi-daemon
[03:49] <Lathiat> so programs like gnomevfs etc can be compiled with it
[03:49] <Lathiat> the zerocofn stuff will simply not work
[03:49] <Lathiat> that obviously needs testing to make sure those programs are doing the right thing and wont die because of it
[03:49] <mdz> ok, I see no reason not to start building in the support if it's in main now
[03:49] <Lathiat> but shoudl work in theory
[03:50] <pitti> Lathiat: s/at this time/not sensible because of our security policy/
[03:50] <Lathiat> main reason not to start avahi-daemon is due to security/open ports policy
[03:50] <mdz> the spec calls for avahi not to listen on the network by default
[03:50] <mdz> pitti: good point
[03:50] <seb128> mdz: I've uploaded a gnome-vfs2 using avahi today, build wait on the actual promotion of the lib
[03:50] <Lathiat> mdz: which is easily doable by not installing avahi-daemon
[03:50] <mdz> Lathiat: let's talk about this another time in detail
[03:51] <mdz> need to keep moving
[03:51] <mdz> ogra_ibook: next
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> me ?
[03:51] <mdz> thanks mvo
[03:51] <Lathiat> ok
[03:51] <Lathiat> cheers
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * thin-client-sound: waiting for mdz to approve on return.
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * thin-client-local-devices: no progress.
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * thin-client-memory-usage: some more changes locally done and tested, patch to initramfs provided to infinity.
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * thin-client-faster-startup: speed up the first module loading through the above mentioned patch (http://bugzilla.ubuntu.com/attachment.cgi?id=5494).
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * gnome-screensaver-default-image: will pick dummy images next week to finally have some package up, need to ping sabdfl again for his pics.
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * general: mostly donwe powerpc testing, dhcpd.conf changes for automatic bootimage selection are already up on http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/bzr-archive/ltsp/multiarch/, ltsp-build-client and ltsp-update-kernels still need some work (yaboot and kernel stuff) for full powerpc support. gcompris 7.2 tests for edubntu.
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> * next week: testing the dhcpd change for compensating the new introduced --next-server option in ltsp, finish the changes on ltsp-build-client and the ltsp-client package for faster startup, multiarch (powerpc) and mem usage. dig for the reason of the nfs timeouts, gcompris 7.2 and xscreensaver merge.
[03:51] <Keybuk> Lathiat: can you push anything involving "ifconfig" past me first (ie. setting of an IP address on an interface which doesn't have one) as that'd need co-ordinating with udev and network-manager too
[03:51] <mdz> ogra_ibook: I reviewed faster-startup and added comments
[03:51] <ogra_ibook> yup i saw in one if my handfull of mails getting through 
[03:52] <mdz> ogra_ibook: Keybuk is the approver for thin-client-sound; there's no reason it should have been blocked on me
[03:52] <mdz> that could have been taken care of while I was away
[03:52] <ogra_ibook> yu asked to approve it at ubz 
[03:52] <ogra_ibook> its mainly implemented ahead of the spec already ...
[03:53] <mdz> I've said all I have to say on the sound spec since UBZ; it's Keybuk's
[03:53] <ogra_ibook> just missing the ltspsink...
[03:53] <ogra_ibook> oki
[03:53] <ogra_ibook> i'll reassign it
[03:53] <Keybuk> ping me tomorrow about it
[03:53] <ogra_ibook> yup
[03:53] <mdz> ok
[03:53] <mdz> thanks
[03:53] <mdz> pitti: next
[03:53] <Keybuk> where tommorow~=today after I've slept :p
[03:54] <pitti> last days before holidays: fix grave config file handling bugs in cupsys, PHP/kernel security update
[03:54] <pitti> general stuff this week: security updates, catch up with email and security review, did the overdue g-v-m update
[03:54] <pitti> gstreamer-audio-backend: implemented everything on our side; the libgnome audio events issue is still left, but that's an upstream thing
[03:54] <pitti> no progress on other specs, no blocks
[03:54] <pitti> plan next week: catch up with a load of pending security updates, try to implement the .server files part of langpacks-desktopfiles
[03:54] <mdz> ok
[03:54] <mdz> thanks
[03:54] <mdz> seb128: next
[03:54] <pitti> mdz: did you have a chance to look at the gstreamer status?
[03:54] <seb128> dapper-desktop-plan: first version of the new session dialog uploaded
[03:54] <seb128> video-playback: gstreamer0.10/gst-plugins-base0.10 updated to 0.10.1, rhythmbox/totem built with gst0.10
[03:54] <seb128> other: bug triage, GNOME 2.13.4
[03:54] <seb128> next-week: continue to catch up with bugzilla backlog, panel changes of dapper-desktop-plan, starting on gdm changes of dapper-desktop-plan
[03:54] <pitti> mdz: are you fine with setting it to implemented?
[03:54] <mdz> pitti: I'm not sure what the issues are; please email
[03:55] <pitti> mdz: ok
[03:55] <mdz> seb128: what about the other parts of dapper-desktop-plan?  there is a lot there
[03:55] <seb128> not that much, that's basically panel/applets change, I'll work on that next week
[03:55] <seb128> and gdm changes which are next
[03:56] <mdz> gdm, logout button, battstat applet, etc.
[03:56] <seb128> button/applets/... are what I listed as "panel changes"
[03:56] <mdz> I tried out totem-gstreamer with the latest stuff
[03:56] <mdz> A/V sync seems to still be poor
[03:57] <mdz> is that your experience as well?
[03:57] <seb128> what audiosink do you use?
[03:57] <seb128> it works quite fine for me
[03:57] <mdz> ALSA
[03:58] <seb128> pitti: you played with that too, did you have some issue?
[03:58] <pitti> it works great for me
[03:58] <pitti> mdz: the default should now be autoaudiosink
[03:58] <dholbach> for me too
[03:58] <mdz> hmm, it works well with an mpeg I have, but not a vorbis/theora ogg
[03:58] <pitti> mdz: it uses esound if dmix doesn't work
[03:58] <mdz> maybe the ogg is broken, I'll look at it further
[03:58] <mdz> pitti: I probably changed it at some point
[03:58] <pitti> mdz: I didn't test with theora, I don't have a theora video here
[03:59] <mdz> seems unlikely that it's codec-specific, maybe a problem with the stream I tested with
[03:59] <pitti> mdz: gst 0.10 has its own gconf settings, btw
[03:59] <ogra_ibook> arent the ubz videos theora ? 
[03:59] <mdz> yes
[03:59] <dholbach> http://videos.ubuntu.com/ubz/
[03:59] <mdz> I was testing with Martijn's videos
[03:59] <mdz> anyway, something to look at offline
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: next
[03:59] <Riddell> since last meeting: fixing kubuntu-system-tools, investigate CUPS 1.2 with KDE, investigate gstreamer 0.10 with KDE, daily CD testing
[03:59] <Riddell> this week: bugs fixing notably KDE xkb support, sudo wrapper, hopefully kubuntu-express partitioning tool, taking delivery of kubuntu breezy CDs and sending them out, KDE avahi support
[03:59] <Riddell> blocking: kubuntu-package-manager bounty needs response from mdz
[03:59] <Riddell> also interesting: KDE 3.5.1 scheduled for tagging jan 20th, 3.5.2 for tagging 17th march
[03:59] <mdz> Riddell: what's happening with kubuntu-roadmap-dapper?
[04:00] <Riddell> also interesting (for pitti): I expect one app in kubuntu main to have a release ported to qt 4 this week coming
[04:00] <mdz> that's a high-priority approved spec which didn't get an update last week either
[04:00] <pitti> yay library duplication :/
[04:00] <Riddell> mdz: it what I do when I'm not doing anything else
[04:01] <Kamion> Riddell: you probably want to start looking at http://people.ubuntu.com/~cjwatson/bzr/espresso/ubuntu/
[04:01] <Riddell> mdz: most is done or in progress
[04:01] <mdz> Riddell: how much of it has been done so far?  it needs to be included in your status updates
[04:01] <Kamion> (for kubuntu-express)
[04:01] <mdz> Riddell: please email an update to me and janew later today with details
[04:01] <seb128_> hum, disconnect
[04:01] <seb128_> anything after "<dholbach> http://videos.ubuntu.com/ubz/" ?
[04:01] <Riddell> mdz: ok
[04:01] <mdz> and find some time to chat with Kamion about kubuntu-express in more depth
[04:02] <Kamion> Riddell: (it'll be changing a lot, the user-setup stuff is much closer to how I want the final shape of it to be than anything else is at the moment)
[04:02] <dholbach> seb128_: I'll paste in a query
[04:02] <mdz> ok, we're out of time
[04:02] <mdz> thanks for staying up, europeans
[04:02] <ogra_ibook> heh
[04:02] <mdz> 0800 UTC next week, right?
[04:03] <pitti> thanks everybody
[04:03] <mdz> good night
[04:03] <ogra_ibook> thanks
[04:03] <Keybuk> has anyone noticed the pattern means we have a 0200 UTC while we're ALL in the UK? :p
[04:03] <mdz> Riddell: I don't have anything in my inbox from you; if you're waiting for a response from me on a bounty please resend
[04:03] <jbailey> Keybuk: Is that after the bars close?
[04:03] <Mithrandir> we can have it in a bar.
[04:04] <Mithrandir> or, rather, pub.
[04:04] <Riddell> mdz: ok, was from before christmas
[04:04] <iwj> mdz: Did you want to talk about firefox now or in about 8h30 ?
[04:04] <mdz> it's possible that it got lost in the post-holiday shuffle
[04:04] <Kamion> jbailey: the UK just reformed its licensing laws to allow 24-hour licensing ...
[04:04] <Keybuk> jbailey: depends on the bar/pub now
[04:04] <ogra_ibook> Mithrandir, i think they close earlier
[04:04] <ogra_ibook> oh
[04:04] <ogra_ibook> cool
[04:04] <jbailey> Kamion, Keybuk: I don't see the problem with the meeting time, then. =)
[04:04] <mdz> iwj: more like 14h
[04:05] <Keybuk> anyway, back to bed
[04:05] <jbailey> g'n all.  demain.
[04:05] <doko> good night
[04:05] <iwj> Fine by me.  I'll be around until probably 1900UTC or so tomorrow so any time before then.  Thanks.
[04:05] <pitti> night
[04:05] <dholbach> good night everybody
[04:06] <iwj> Goodnight everyone.
[05:13] <fabbione> yo
[05:13] <fabbione> so today i did the test for booting/installing on usb devices
[05:14] <fabbione> the installer itself works just fine
[05:14] <Kamion> (on x86 anyway ...)
[05:14] <fabbione> x86_64
[05:14] <fabbione> but it's the only hw i could test in few hours
[05:14] <fabbione> the main isssue we have is the bootloader
[05:15] <fabbione> both grub-installer and lilo-installer are no no in this setup
[05:15] <fabbione> the problem is complex 
[05:15] <fabbione> and it is related to the BIOS on which we are installing
[05:15] <fabbione> let me exaplain the details
[05:16] <fabbione> grub-installer by default search for the first disk the bios can see
[05:16] <fabbione> the one that's called hd(0,..)
[05:16] <mdz> right, they both need to know the BIOS drive number in order to load the next stage
[05:16] <fabbione> this disk is not necesseraly the one where we are installing
[05:17] <fabbione> for example i did a netinstall and hd(0 was my unremovable hda
[05:17] <mdz> but there are ways to make this work
[05:17] <mdz> there are howtos for making bootable USB keys with Linux
[05:17] <fabbione> mdz: it's not the only problem...
[05:17] <fabbione> now it is possible to workaround this first step using the grub-install --rescan (didn't check lilo)
[05:18] <fabbione> to find the map between the actual device where we are installing 
[05:18] <fabbione> s/ between/of
[05:18] <fabbione> assuming we can automate this process
[05:18] <Kamion> there's conversion code in grub-installer to convert OS devices to the corresponding GRUB drives
[05:19] <Kamion> using that in the case of USB may help
[05:19] <fabbione> we need to write a first menu.list, that will install grub MBR to the proper device
[05:19] <fabbione> after that
[05:19] <fabbione> we need to write another config that will use hd(0,..(
[05:19] <fabbione> because when you do select from the BIOS to boot from USB
[05:20] <fabbione> the BIOS device mapping changes
[05:20] <Kamion> grub-installer already has to deal with that kind of issue for chaining to other bootloaders; I don't think this should be a big problem to solve
[05:20] <Kamion> ah, not with the BIOS device mapping changing though
[05:20] <fabbione> the problems i am thinking are:
[05:20] <fabbione> 1) upgrades of the MBR
[05:20] <Kamion> yes, that's rather messy to automate
[05:20] <fabbione> 2) are all the BIOS coherent?
[05:20] <mdz> there's always syslinux
[05:21] <fabbione> that means.. do they all change mapping?
[05:21] <fabbione> otherwise apart from usb-storage that was not modprobed at initramfs stage
[05:21] <fabbione> the boot does work
[05:21] <fabbione> (modulo changing root device that's part of probe-for-root)
[05:22] <fabbione> mdz: how can that help us?
[05:22] <fabbione> that means having a syslinux-installer/udeb set
[05:22] <fabbione> we also don't have a way to know:
[05:23] <fabbione> - is the user really asking to install the MBR on the removable device? or is it only installing there and wants the MBR on his real hd(0 ?
[05:23] <mdz> fabbione: syslinux doesn't need to know which drive it's on
[05:23] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok!
[05:23] <mdz> if the user is installing to a USB device, we should install the boot loader there
[05:23] <Keybuk> we, err, don't probe for USB controllers
[05:23] <Kamion> fabbione: the latter is a corner case that can be handled by a low-priority question in the installer, much like the existing one in grub-installer
[05:24] <mdz> if they want something weird where the boot loader is on a different disk, they can do that manually
[05:24] <mdz> (or maybe in expert mode?)
[05:24] <Kamion> that's what expert mode's for
[05:24] <fabbione> mdz: i am not that sure.. really
[05:24] <mdz> I am quite sure about this
[05:24] <fabbione> in one of my install i was happy of the actual behaviour...
[05:24] <Kamion> every bug report I've ever got about USB installations going wrong wanted boot-from-USB as the default
[05:25] <Kamion> I'm with mdz here
[05:25] <fabbione> ok
[05:25] <fabbione> Keybuk: we will need to change that. otherwise this work becomes.. hmm pointless :)
[05:25] <Kamion> having to go to syslinux would be annoying, though, and a moderate amount of work
[05:25] <Kamion> you wouldn't have to have a syslinux-udeb though
[05:26] <Kamion> installing it in /target and running that would be fine
[05:26] <Keybuk> fabbione: yeah, think it was just an oversight ... just gotta figure out what they identify themselves as
[05:26] <mdz> Keybuk: we used to
[05:26] <fabbione> Kamion: ok
[05:26] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, we did in breezy
[05:27] <fabbione> of course fixing the grub thing, should be relatively easy. it's question of re-iterating twice on the config
[05:27] <Kamion> that's not a problem, we already iterate twice
[05:27] <fabbione> Kamion: changing config at the end?
[05:27] <mdz> Keybuk: we should continue to do so; it's important for USB keyboards to work in early userspace e.g.
[05:28] <mdz> fabbione: I'm not so sure that fixing grub is easy
[05:28] <Kamion> oh, well, we don't run grub-install twice, but we do run update-grub after running grub-install
[05:28] <fabbione> mdz: we need to fix grub-installer, not grub itself
[05:28] <fabbione> and this is a special case
[05:29] <Kamion> you only need to make it generate the device.map first; not rocket science ...
[05:29] <fabbione> becasue the installer by default pass hd(0 or the closest to grub
[05:29] <mdz> my understanding is that grub has three chunks which are chained together
[05:29] <mdz> the first is a boot sector
[05:29] <mdz> then the filesystem code
[05:29] <mdz> then stage2
[05:29] <mdz> stage1, stage1.5, stage2
[05:29] <Kamion> my main request here is that we not attempt to change grub-installer's behaviour for hard disk installs
[05:29] <fabbione> Kamion: ohh that falls the donkey
[05:29] <Kamion> I don't want to risk exchanging bugs we know for unknown bugs with unknown impact
[05:30] <fabbione> because i did install on a usb hd
[05:30] <Kamion> fabbione: what?
[05:30] <Kamion> I mean for IDE/SCSI hard disks
[05:30] <fabbione> usb hd are seen as scsi
[05:30] <fabbione> you see sda
[05:30] <mdz> but you can tell the difference
[05:30] <fabbione> (or whatever)
[05:30] <mdz> this code should only come into play if the device is removable
[05:30] <mdz>  /sys/block/sda/removable
[05:30] <fabbione> right.. that creates an exception :)
[05:30] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, it's a clear bug ... we deal with them when compiled into the kernel by the elmos of this world, I just clean forgot to probe them too
[05:31] <fabbione> ok
[05:31] <Keybuk> fabbione: add to your /usr/share/initramfs-tools/scripts/init-premount/udev script (probably in the BOOT=local bit, before the -Bpci line) something like:
[05:31] <Keybuk>   /sbin/udevplug -Bpci -Iclass=0x0c*
[05:32] <Keybuk> or just modify the exiting -Bpci line to be -Iclass=0x0[1c] *
[05:32] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok i will try.. testing that thing takes heaps load of time
[05:33] <mdz> why?
[05:33] <fabbione> Kamion: how familiar are you with grub-installer
[05:33] <Kamion> about 6 out of 10
[05:33] <fabbione> mdz: this machine takes about 5 minutes to go trough POST
[05:33] <Kamion> it's one of the more difficult bits of code in d-i
[05:33] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. do you think we can look at it together?
[05:33] <Kamion> logically difficult, I mean
[05:33] <Kamion> sure
[05:33] <Kamion> not right now, but yeah
[05:33] <fabbione> i know it about 0/100
[05:33] <fabbione> not right now.. no
[05:34] <fabbione> Kamion: ok.. should we set a date and time to look at it?
[05:34] <fabbione> Kamion: i am relatively flexible with  my schedule
[05:34] <fabbione> so i prefer to match your spare time
[05:34] <Kamion> let's just make it next week sometime, we'll sort it out on the fly
[05:34] <fabbione> spare as in i am not working as a slave 23h59m per day
[05:34] <Kamion> our hours are relatively compatible
[05:34] <fabbione> Kamion: works for me.
[05:34] <fabbione> thanks
[05:35] <fabbione> mdz: and this is the only box i have that can do boot from USB. sucks but that's how it works :)
[05:35] <fabbione> Keybuk: once we fix this boot loader problem
[05:35] <fabbione> we still have the issue with probe-for-root
[05:35] <fabbione> (and the other partitions)
[05:35] <Keybuk> "the issue" ?
[05:35] <fabbione> last time we did talk you mentioned problems with IDE
[05:36] <fabbione> "the issue" as in not implemented yet
[05:36] <Keybuk> where does IDE come into it?
[05:36] <Keybuk> I wager nobody with IDE cares about probe-for-root ;)
[05:37] <Keybuk> it's useful for SCSI, SATA, USB, IEEE1394, et. al.
[05:37] <fabbione> Keybuk: well i remember you saying something about it. I would have to recheck the irc logs to be sure
[05:37] <fabbione> but i think the case was:
[05:37] <Keybuk> yeah, you can't use root=/dev/disk/ if it's an IDE disk on a generic (non-PCI) controller
[05:37] <fabbione> install on usb and move the hd into an IDE system
[05:37] <fabbione> or something like that
[05:37] <fabbione> ok, what was the reason for that?
[05:37] <Keybuk> because we don't know to load ide-generic
[05:38] <mdz> we can expect the user to fix the bootloader and even the initramfs in that situation
[05:38] <Keybuk> because there's nothing to tell us it's an IDE disk
[05:38] <Keybuk> and we can't load ide-generic unconditionally, because it breaks things
[05:38] <fabbione> Keybuk: ok..
[05:38] <fabbione> make sense..
[05:38] <Keybuk> mostly mdz's laptop, in fact ;)
[05:38] <fabbione> ehhee
[05:38] <Keybuk> and ogra's, but I care about him less <g>
[05:38] <fabbione> AHAHHA
[05:38] <mdz> ide_generic is loaded on my laptop currently and it is working OK
[05:38] <Keybuk> (actually, slightly more seriously, it pretty much breaks every machine with a SATA controller and makes them unbootable)
[05:39] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, it's loaded after we've loaded the right module
[05:39] <mdz> right
[05:39] <fabbione> ok
[05:39] <Keybuk> on SATA machines, it's especially important that we make damned sure the driver has loaded and claimed the devices before we load ide-generic
[05:39] <fabbione> Keybuk: i will need to grab your fu for the probe-for-root. We need to be sure to get it hutterly right from the beginning.
[05:39] <fabbione> Keybuk: do you think you can allocate time for that?
[05:39] <ogra_ibook> err, it works for me too, but i told you already
[05:40] <Keybuk> which means an >3 minute wait
[05:40] <Keybuk> ogra_ibook: that's, because, I, fixed, it ;P
[05:40] <ogra_ibook> :P
[05:40] <Keybuk> fabbione: sure
[05:40] <Keybuk> is easy-peasey
[05:40] <fabbione> Kamion: what would be the best place to change fstab and concept of root device before writing the MBR?
[05:40] <Keybuk> I wrote the udev stuff for it a few weeks ago, and is already in dapper
[05:40] <fabbione> Keybuk: yeps.. i saw the /dev/disk/by-* and tested it.
[05:41] <fabbione> so that's known to work.
[05:41] <fabbione> slamming it in d-i might be slightly more tricky :P
[05:41] <Kamion> fabbione: fstab> partman-target
[05:41] <Kamion> or thereabouts
[05:41] <fabbione> Kamion: ok thanks..
[05:41] <Kamion> fabbione: root device depends on the bootloader
[05:42] <Kamion> partman writes the fstab, you're not getting away from that
[05:42] <fabbione> yes...
[05:42] <fabbione> i know
[05:42] <Kamion> and the fstab-writing code is really easy
[05:42] <fabbione> ok perfect.. 
[05:42] <fabbione> i am relatively familiar with partman
[05:42] <fabbione> so that should be a plus
[05:42] <Kamion> it's a load of fstab.d scripts that print fragments for each mountpoint, and a few scripts in partman-target that pull it all together
[05:43] <fabbione> great
[05:43] <fabbione> ok i think i got all the answers i was looking for
[05:43] <fabbione> mdz: i think we might be able to get most of it sorted before i will go in holidays..
[05:44] <fabbione> mdz: but that means slowing down -server.
[05:44] <mdz> fabbione: ok, let me see if someone else can take it over
[05:45] <fabbione> ok
[05:45] <Keybuk> if I can get networking out of the way, I have some free cycles
[05:45] <fabbione> probably it would be enough if somebody can take of one of the 2
[05:45] <fabbione> i should be manage to do the other
[05:46] <mdz> Keybuk: are you watching ubuntu-bugs for boot stuff?  I don't have the cycles right now to be the Great Big Bug Sorting Machine
[05:46] <fabbione> (my wife is going awat sunday *hint* *hint*)
[05:46] <Keybuk> mdz: yeah, I'm trying to get back up to speed with ubuntu-bugs, but I do surf it most days
[05:47] <mdz> (at least the new bugs)
[05:47] <Keybuk> yeah, it's the hysterical ones over crimbo that I'm behind on
[05:51] <fabbione> thanks a lot guys for your time